I've noticed some days show little movement on the board. I just wanted to remind all our newcomers that they don't have to wait for an "update" to give us. I'd hate for anyone passing through to take a look at the forum and think this board has dried up........thereby, choosing to find another one. I'm not complaining......just concerned. This is a special place to me, b/c it played a significant part in helping me get my head back on straight.
((hugs to everyone))
I'm just going to add my voice to the choir here. I'm happy to help others and give back to the place that helped me so much.
I wonder if the technology is too old, but then again I am old and things pass me by so quickly.
Maybe people don't use online forums anymore.
I think that this place has in some ways been overtaken a bit by other venues such as Reddit for those who are computer savvy.
I don't hang out in Newcomers any more, but the MWD team also used to be a lot more proactive in offering counseling and support to those who come here in pain and with a lot of questions. Christy's quick offers of support and direction on where to go were usually one of the second or third things people would see.
A few years ago I and another poster speculated on some of the metrics on the site. How many new visitors, how many got help from MWD, how long people stayed on here for etc. If they have those stats that might reveal a bit more.
MWD's team should already have stats on file on how people found this place, key search terms etc. I expect that some of the alternative sites both with similar and different messaging are perhaps getting the traffic first. I used to joke that having a site on the interwebs is like putting a billboard on your front lawn. Marketing, getting those search terms promoted costs money, takes time and from a business point of view, that investment needs to have some payback. Without that though, people don't find you.
Just my 2 cents.
I wonder if the technology is too old, but then again I am old and things pass me by so quickly.
Maybe people don't use online forums anymore.
Interesting thought. I know in my sitch the first things I sought out were videos and podcasts. Eventually, MWD's video led me to this site and to this forum.
I loved her videos. It breathed some hope into me when I was really down.
I think there is something wrong with the website. For the last week or so, if I type "divorcebusting.com" into the browser on my iPhone, the site won't open and it says "Safari cannot open the page because it could not connect to the server." I can access it from my computer without issue and I can actually directly access the forums if I go straight to the forum page, but the home page doesn't open. However, I know a lot of people only come to this site via their phone... I think that might be the problem. I believe this happened last year too but was fixed more quickly? IDK who can help--cadet, job?
I'm going to piggyback on May's comment. I have noticed that since Friday (when I tried to post an update to my sitch) the site does not function properly. I myself tried posting 3 times and none of the times my post showed up until Monday morning. In the past my posts would show up immediately. I also noticed that other users' posts would be published during the weekend, but mine would not.
I hope things get fixed as quickly as possible. This forum really does provide an invaluable help and support to all that frequent it.
may22,
There have been times that I can't access the site at all and then I fire off an email to Virginia and/or Cadet to see if they are having problems. The moderators can only pass on problems with the software. We are not part of the IT office, nor part of the main office staff. Cadet and I are (remote) volunteers only and there are times that we have issues with logging in or taking care of requests, i.e., just as the posters do. In a pinch, I've had a few posters actually message me on my personal FB page because of issues getting into the system, which in turn, I fire off an email to Virginia to see what the problem is.
There is no rhyme or reason as to the "slack" in what is going on right now. However, it may be time to do a purge and get rid of some of the "older" postings and actually go through the User listing and those that haven't posted in 6 years or have multiple User Names need to be removed from the listing. Once a system bogs down, it becomes a "snail".
I recently mentioned to Cadet that the software is old and needs to be updated and the site needs to be cleaned up. We aren't allowed to post other links to videos and sites or mention other sites that may be in the same field as this site. Also the "messaging" button, as far as I know, has never been activated.
Maybe the weather and other issues are getting more attention than the forum at the moment. I do not have an answer to the "snail" pace, but I've seen it before and then all of a sudden people begin to post when the seasons change.
We don't seem to get the steady amount of newcomers as fast as we did in the past.........for whatever reason. My other concern or question is why some people who are in the thick of things in their sitch, go for days or weeks without posting anything on their thread. I'm not talking about the people who have been around here for a long time, and who want to help someone else. I mean actual newcomers who desperately need some guidance. I don't know how many times I've written a response on a newcomer's thread, and never hear another word back from them. I don't know if they even looked to see if anyone wrote to them, or if they checked and didn't like what was said. Also, and I won't call any by name, but we've stuck with certain people very diligently, while they were going through terrible times. Then, at what seems to be the most critical point .......they fell out of sight and we were left hanging. We never know what happens. Maybe I'm just silly, but when I invest time trying to help someone, I would like to know if they are okay, at the least. I mean, we're strangers but we share very private details of each other's lives and for the most part, I think we care what happens. That's why we stick around this place. I still worry about a few that I personally spent many days mentoring them as best I could, and suddenly at the most critical point.......they'd vanish.
Maybe they can't handle criticism, or they think we are too harsh. I've been shocked when reading a board member's post to a newcomer, and see nothing that stands out as "harsh"......but the newcomer will sometimes remark that it's rather strong or harsh. Here's the kicker, the ones that stand out in my mind were not
women. They were all new guys that showed up for advice. I always thought men could take it, but, go figure.
I will confess that there have been periods where I would be getting very frustrated with certain ones, and I could see my tone was a bit sharp, so I would back off for a couple of days and try to soften up before tackling it again. (LOL)
BTW, I wanted to explain why I was not able to do as much posting for what seemed light a
long stretch of time to me. Various health issues prevented me from keeping my normal pace on the board. I went nearly a year with serious neck problems where I couldn't sit, stand, bend over, or much of any position for over a few minutes, except lay flat on my back. Not fun! Then when the neck got better, something else fell apart (story of my life). Like, overnight my hands froze and my fingers wouldn't work. Here's the thing.....I'm sure I brought it all on myself by overdoing. Plus, you guys may laugh when I tell you that I learned to type on an old
manual typewriter back in high school (not an electric typewriter, and not the keyboard we have today,....... and don't ask me how long ago it was). Fingers had to be very strong to type those old typewriters back in the day. The teacher of the typewriting class (yes, that was the name of the course) had us do finger exercises to strengthen them, else you couldn't press the keys hard enough. To this day, I strike the keyboard so
hard.........and if I am somewhat passionate in what I'm typing, my poor fingers are stomping these keys as if my life depended on it!!!
After all these years, you'd think I could retrain myself to be a soft touch on the keyboard. But as you might guess reading some of my posts in past times......it's just not my nature to be a softie. So, there you have it. (LOL) If you don't see me on the board, just assume I must be out of commission, but I will return as long as my old hands hold up.....such as they are.
Thanks, job. I know you give an enormous amount to so many through your volunteer work here.
Should I email Virginia? I almost did the other day but wasn't sure if she was the right one. I've been trying daily to log on through my phone and the same message pops up. I wonder if there is something wrong with the mobile version? I do remember this same thing happening last year and one of you in-the-know folks talked to the staff and it was fixed.
Thanks, job. I know you give an enormous amount to so many through your volunteer work here.
Should I email Virginia? I almost did the other day but wasn't sure if she was the right one. I've been trying daily to log on through my phone and the same message pops up. I wonder if there is something wrong with the mobile version? I do remember this same thing happening last year and one of you in-the-know folks talked to the staff and it was fixed.
The mobile version works fine with my Android devices using Chrome so it may be a Safari only issue. Or possibly an issue just on your own device. Difficult to tell. You could try other sites that use the same software such as the "Mount Whitney Zone"
Here's the kicker, the ones that stand out in my mind were not women. They were all new guys that showed up for advice. I always thought men could take it, but, go figure.
LOL - I like to think that many of the men who come here are fixers who are looking for the user manual to a wayward spouse that will get them the fix for their spouse that they want. I certainly was.
There is also a lot of competition for eyeballs in this market these days and the original community splintered and refocused on different nexuses. I've seen it happen in other online communities. It's amazing how passionate boating people can get
I can think off the top of my head of at least 3 different online communities that have their roots here. Undoubtedly there are many more.
We don't seem to get the steady amount of newcomers as fast as we did in the past.........for whatever reason. My other concern or question is why some people who are in the thick of things in their sitch, go for days or weeks without posting anything on their thread. I'm not talking about the people who have been around here for a long time, and who want to help someone else. I mean actual newcomers who desperately need some guidance. I don't know how many times I've written a response on a newcomer's thread, and never hear another word back from them. I don't know if they even looked to see if anyone wrote to them, or if they checked and didn't like what was said. Also, and I won't call any by name, but we've stuck with certain people very diligently, while they were going through terrible times. Then, at what seems to be the most critical point .......they fell out of sight and we were left hanging. We never know what happens. Maybe I'm just silly, but when I invest time trying to help someone, I would like to know if they are okay, at the least. I mean, we're strangers but we share very private details of each other's lives and for the most part, I think we care what happens. That's why we stick around this place. I still worry about a few that I personally spent many days mentoring them as best I could, and suddenly at the most critical point.......they'd vanish.
Maybe they can't handle criticism, or they think we are too harsh. I've been shocked when reading a board member's post to a newcomer, and see nothing that stands out as "harsh"......but the newcomer will sometimes remark that it's rather strong or harsh. Here's the kicker, the ones that stand out in my mind were not
women. They were all new guys that showed up for advice. I always thought men could take it, but, go figure.
I will confess that there have been periods where I would be getting very frustrated with certain ones, and I could see my tone was a bit sharp, so I would back off for a couple of days and try to soften up before tackling it again. (LOL)
BTW, I wanted to explain why I was not able to do as much posting for what seemed light a
long stretch of time to me. Various health issues prevented me from keeping my normal pace on the board. I went nearly a year with serious neck problems where I couldn't sit, stand, bend over, or much of any position for over a few minutes, except lay flat on my back. Not fun! Then when the neck got better, something else fell apart (story of my life). Like, overnight my hands froze and my fingers wouldn't work. Here's the thing.....I'm sure I brought it all on myself by overdoing. Plus, you guys may laugh when I tell you that I learned to type on an old
manual typewriter back in high school (not an electric typewriter, and not the keyboard we have today,....... and don't ask me how long ago it was). Fingers had to be very strong to type those old typewriters back in the day. The teacher of the typewriting class (yes, that was the name of the course) had us do finger exercises to strengthen them, else you couldn't press the keys hard enough. To this day, I strike the keyboard so
hard.........and if I am somewhat passionate in what I'm typing, my poor fingers are stomping these keys as if my life depended on it!!!
After all these years, you'd think I could retrain myself to be a soft touch on the keyboard. But as you might guess reading some of my posts in past times......it's just not my nature to be a softie. So, there you have it. (LOL) If you don't see me on the board, just assume I must be out of commission, but I will return as long as my old hands hold up.....such as they are.
As with all of your posts, this is very well said (or should I say, typed with a very hard struck keying!). I can think of one women that whose husband was very wayward, openly cheating on her, and was getting good guidance from the board. She was going to a wedding that he was going to be at, and we never heard from her again. I believe it was in the fall of 2018 time-frame. I should point out it was especially disconcerting because her WH had shown the ability to be aggressive with her. I think of her often.
I know I was hard-headed at the beginning of my sitch, and didn't want to listen to the advice. The 2x4s woke me up! If strangers on the internet could be that passionate about my sitch, enough to take me to task for doing things counter to helping my sitch, then I realized that I could be just as passionate in trying to DB as well as I could. Coming back, telling on myself for making mistakes, getting more 2x4s and encouragement to push ahead were all key to my journey! I remember one poster telling me I was treating my W like a child. Something that came out in IC was that I had a father-daugther relationship with my W! That a stranger on the internet could see that relatively quickly was impressive!
I think some of the newcomers come here, as Andrew pointed out, wanting to hear: DO THIS...SAY THAT...SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE! And when they realize that DB isn't 1) a guarantee and 2) is more about fixing yourself than your MR, they get discouraged and move on looking for another resource that will give them the SAY AND DO this approach. As Andrew said, I was there too. And what I finally got through my thick head was there was NOTHING I could do to fix my MR and get my WAW/WW to come back.
The thing that bothers me like you sandi is the newcomers that refuse to come here before taking action to get feedback before doing something that will set them back. Even when you tell a particular poster they need to do that, and they repeatedly come back saying "Well I did this...said that....." after not posting for days. You could see that if they would just have come here then the posters here could have talked them down off the ledge. But coming here and telling us afterwards is too late.
I think the board has gone through other lulls in my 3+ years here. I think it kind of ebbs and flows.
may,
You can post to Virginia about your concerns if think this would help figure out what is going on. I have used my phone to connect and it works quite well. In fact, when I can't get through on my desk top, I will go to my phone and I am able to get on line. Others have complained of not being able to use their phones and when they switch to Chrome or another "platform", they are able to get in. I would suggest trying other ways to get in, i.e., as Andrew suggested.
I think there is something wrong with the website. For the last week or so, if I type "divorcebusting.com" into the browser on my iPhone, the site won't open and it says "Safari cannot open the page because it could not connect to the server." I can access it from my computer without issue and I can actually directly access the forums if I go straight to the forum page, but the home page doesn't open. However, I know a lot of people only come to this site via their phone... I think that might be the problem. I believe this happened last year too but was fixed more quickly? IDK who can help--cadet, job?
Duckduckgo has worked on my iphone. YMMV
I'm going to piggyback on May's comment. I have noticed that since Friday (when I tried to post an update to my sitch) the site does not function properly. I myself tried posting 3 times and none of the times my post showed up until Monday morning. In the past my posts would show up immediately. I also noticed that other users' posts would be published during the weekend, but mine would not.
I hope things get fixed as quickly as possible. This forum really does provide an invaluable help and support to all that frequent it.
Part of the problem for you was that you are on moderation and I was away for the weekend and that slowed you down.
Sorry you should be off that status soon.
I think some of the newcomers come here, as Andrew pointed out, wanting to hear: DO THIS...SAY THAT...SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE! And when they realize that DB isn't 1) a guarantee and 2) is more about fixing yourself than your MR, they get discouraged and move on looking for another resource that will give them the SAY AND DO this approach. As Andrew said, I was there too. And what I finally got through my thick head was there was NOTHING I could do to fix my MR and get my WAW/WW to come back.
I had to be reminded of that all the time when I got here. It took months to set in. I swear, emotional attachment makes fools of us all.
Like someone else said, things will probably pick up this spring and summer with sunshine and long days, especially coming off of last year where people didn't do as much activities.
Newbies,
Be sure to read the thread entitled Board Policies and General Infor for Newcomers. It is one of the threads that has a sticky. In that thread, Cadet explains what "moderation" means. All newbies are on moderation until we are certain that you are legitimate and not a troll or someone trying to sell something to the posters. Also, there are times when we have to recommend that a poster be put on moderation when they do not follow the rules, etc. The final determination as to who is put on moderation and/or released from moderation is determined by the Administrator.
Here is the link to that thread:
Board Policies and General Info for Newcomers.Cadet and I usually attempt to approve newbies' postings after 5 -7 postings. We generally do not stay on the forums 24/7, but we do come along periodically throughout the day to check to see who is posting, etc. We ask that posters please be patient as we will come along and take care of things for you. However, the best way to get quick responses from the moderators is to hit reply and tell us what needs to be done. Cadet and I both get the notification and one of us will take care of your needs as soon as we can.
I wonder if the technology is too old, but then again I am old and things pass me by so quickly.
Maybe people don't use online forums anymore.
As far as getting new people to post - I do think UBB forums appear dated these days - they've been around since the 90s and the look/layout hasn't really changed a ton with the times. Someone browsing thru could likely see the layout of the board, and to be honest the look of divorcebusting.com, and move on elsewhere.
My other concern or question is why some people who are in the thick of things in their sitch, go for days or weeks without posting anything on their thread...
Maybe they can't handle criticism, or they think we are too harsh.
I fit in that category of going for days or weeks without posting, and it is just because I don't feel like I have much in the way of "updates" in my current situation. In the beginning it felt like I was suffocating with anxiety and needed all the help I could find, whereas now I am just trying to put into practice all that I've learned here and elsewhere and continuing to grow. While I can say things are probably the best they've been since BD, I also know they are precarious and could change at any given moment, so it isn't like there is much to share.
Honestly I think it's slow because of a convergence of things. The tech is old. And isn't the most intuitive or user friendly. The anonymity is probably it's best selling point but it also makes it difficult for people who've really connected to connect in the real world. This place has all the makings of a great support group, minus the fact that the friendships built are nearly impossible to evolve. There is a lot of competition out there. Just these concepts alone there are handful of places that promote similar concepts with different lingo but they have an enormous online presence. There's one in particular I can think of that is literally everywhere, social media, YouTube, podcasts, etc. Finding this forum takes some work if you aren't already tipped off by DR. I only found this place because our discernment counselor told me to get and read DR. But if you look up some pretty common phrases people would've looked up in this kind of crisis the DB website isn't even on the first page in most cases or at all.
I also think there are some factors with the pandemic. People are on top of each other. When I came here over a year ago I could post multiple times a day without worry or concern anyone would be over my shoulder. That is not the case for me and I'm sure a lot of other users. Also for some people I think it's slowing down some of the incidents that are going on. Job losses, kids home all the time. Things like that make it difficult. The flip side of that is a lot of us who got here over a year ago our situations have calmed most are entering D proceedings or reconciling. And I noticed just in general, even when I first got here, that as people move beyond crisis either entering into divorce proceedings or reconciling they post less and less and eventually fall of the face of the planet.
I will say though I have been noticing the same thing Sandi has where there are a newbies who post constantly and then all of a sudden just drop off. I don't know what that's about.
As far as getting new people to post - I do think UBB forums appear dated these days - they've been around since the 90s and the look/layout hasn't really changed a ton with the times. Someone browsing thru could likely see the layout of the board, and to be honest the look of divorcebusting.com, and move on elsewhere.
I will say when I first found the website I almost moved on and didn't look back. Honestly, I thought it was inactive. I also thought the forums were just archived versions of the forum or the forum hadn't been touched in some time until I poked around and notice the dates and the postings being updated.
As far as getting new people to post - I do think UBB forums appear dated these days - they've been around since the 90s and the look/layout hasn't really changed a ton with the times. Someone browsing thru could likely see the layout of the board, and to be honest the look of divorcebusting.com, and move on elsewhere.
I will say when I first found the website I almost moved on and didn't look back. Honestly, I thought it was inactive. I also thought the forums were just archived versions of the forum or the forum hadn't been touched in some time until I poked around and notice the dates and the postings being updated.
Me too... although I have subsequently thought that might be a plus in some ways, since it reduces the possibility of my H ever poking around and finding me here! LOL.
If we are in the wish list space right now, I agree that some mechanism for people to connect outside of this forum and evolve friendships would be very beneficial, though I understand that the risks involved may not be worthwhile at the forum level given some of the past experiences.
And, it would be great if some of the other forums had more activity, like piecing. There doesn't seem to be a good place to fit for the not-exactly-newbies-anymore people except MLC or the Big D. I also wonder if there were more activity there if it would help to encourage more newbies to get involved and post here... yes, totally get it that DB is about saving yourself and not your M, but for the people who come here fresh and hurting and wanting hope, it would be a more positive sign to see activity on that forum rather than crickets. It also might help people who think "if only I can get my WS to stay, everything will be peachy!" to see that difficulty through active posting, not just having it told to them by vets. Just a thought.
Few thoughts having been here for a bit....
Outdated technology is probably an issue for sure.
The 10 page thread max before lock is an obvious one. It is a natural point for people to stop posting.
Probably should ease up on some of the arcane rules. Like seriously, the word editing by mods and time spent on it is nutzo. But easing up on some of this might help and keep people interested. Might make them feel like they are being baby sat.
And last but certainly not least, it just seems like most of the vets have gone away for one reason or another that really prompted people to post when I first joined. They were all tremendously helpful and there were a ton of them. Now there seem to be relatively few.
Outdated technology is probably an issue for sure.
The 10 page thread max before lock is an obvious one. It is a natural point for people to stop posting.
Agree on that one - it is very odd and not something I've experienced elsewhere. There's a hockey board I used to frequent and we had a Random Image thread that had 5k+ responses in it. I'm guessing it is a bandwidth/hosting issue but in the days of Facebook Groups, Twitter, Reddit, all the Toks and Chats, YouTube, etc. you really need to make the barrier to entry as low as possible to compete.
You can always check out the “Advice from wise DBers” on the bottom of the forum page.
There’s lots of gems in those threads.
Can this site be updated and re-marketed in a more organized way? That would be great!
I started reading the boards here after my own BD 7 years ago. I was smacked with so much loss and devastation in a short time. This place really saved my life. It took me many years before creating a handle and posting myself— I was too vulnerable before that. I recall some amazing vets and advice over the years — you Sandi (obviously), Starsky (incredible), Wonka, 25, AnotherStander, and several others whose names elude me .... The vets spent time getting to know the poster and gave very personal and detailed feedback. I learned so much reading their stories and following.
I feel like the energy has shifted in the last couple years. There are not as many strong vets with solid and in-depth support. It’s often the same advice from the same posters. At times it reads confrontational and short-sighted. Sorry if that’s harsh of me, but it’s honestly what I think most days when I read a new thread. Also, Newcomers come and go much faster nowadays. I agree that it’s hard to invest the time and energy, for them to vanish and then be left wondering or perhaps worrying about them. I think this has also affected my motivation to invest in people. Another difference is that this site offers more direct strategy without immediate results and it’s counter intuitive (which could be perceived as challenging or not realistic) so I do think even tho we have good intentions, people are scared off by that. Maybe they are easily finding other sites where they are mostly encouraged and validated in their efforts? Often people will often turn towards what they want to hear, rather than what is best for them.
I try and read fairly often. I don’t always feel like I have the time or energy to put a lot in. Mostly it feels like I’m not helping much. I would rather develop a few strong relationships than keep rattling off the same advice. I think the best I can do personally is update my own sitch fairly regularly.
Sandi, I’m sorry to hear about your health issues and neck! Your presence is a staple here and your absence is felt. But please always care for yourself first and foremost!
Blu
I also think there are some factors with the pandemic. People are on top of each other. When I came here over a year ago I could post multiple times a day without worry or concern anyone would be over my shoulder. That is not the case for me and I'm sure a lot of other users. Also for some people I think it's slowing down some of the incidents that are going on. Job losses, kids home all the time. Things like that make it difficult. The flip side of that is a lot of us who got here over a year ago our situations have calmed most are entering D proceedings or reconciling. And I noticed just in general, even when I first got here, that as people move beyond crisis either entering into divorce proceedings or reconciling they post less and less and eventually fall of the face of the planet.
Wayfarer, this all makes perfect sense, and I agree with you.
I don't expect anyone to stick around, once they have divorced, and want to move on with their life. Most people have little spare time to devote to a board. However, I always appreciate those who desire to pay forward whatever lessons they gleaned during their own experience. People tend to listen to those who have similar experiences.
One thing that may throw people off and have them thinking that the "magic bullet" can be found on this Board are the words Divorce Busting. People come here looking for ways to save their marriage which is what this Board is all about, but unfortunately, many times, you just can't save the marriage...but you have to save yourself. People come here hurt, upset and yes in panic mode because their spouses/partners have lost the plot and have moved out or are acting out. Maybe it's time to think about renaming the Board and yes, updating the policies as well as fresh/new look may help.
I do want to say that many of the forums that you now see out on the net, that some of those creators, were actually members here and went on to set up their own forums. Why? To help others and attempt to put a different spin on what they learned here. Support boards are money makers in many ways.
I post on other Boards as well as this one. They, too, tend to have a lull and then everything picks up again when a new season begins.
Just my two cents.
One thing that may throw people off and have them thinking that the "magic bullet" can be found on this Board are the words Divorce Busting. People come here looking for ways to save their marriage which is what this Board is all about, but unfortunately, many times, you just can't save the marriage...but you have to save yourself. People come here hurt, upset and yes in panic mode because their spouses/partners have lost the plot and have moved out or are acting out. Maybe it's time to think about renaming the Board and yes, updating the policies as well as fresh/new look may help.
I do want to say that many of the forums that you now see out on the net, that some of those creators, were actually members here and went on to set up their own forums. Why? To help others and attempt to put a different spin on what they learned here. Support boards are money makers in many ways.
I post on other Boards as well as this one. They, too, tend to have a lull and then everything picks up again when a new season begins.
Just my two cents.
All this being true - just understand that Job and I are just members like everyone else and do not own or have much input into the way this board runs.
We are just volunteers !
Thank you both, cadet and job, for what you both do! Much appreciated! Your links in the welcome message were amazing when I came to the board! I still go back and reread those occasionally.
sandi, was thinking about you and hoping you are doing well! I will keep you in my prayers in relation to your health. Thank you for the help you gave me in my sitch, and the continued help you get to LBSs, LBHs in particular especially those dealing with a WW. Your insight is invaluable.
I wanted to comment on this post of Blu's:
I started reading the boards here after my own BD 7 years ago. I was smacked with so much loss and devastation in a short time. This place really saved my life. It took me many years before creating a handle and posting myself— I was too vulnerable before that. I recall some amazing vets and advice over the years — you Sandi (obviously), Starsky (incredible), Wonka, 25, AnotherStander, and several others whose names elude me .... The vets spent time getting to know the poster and gave very personal and detailed feedback. I learned so much reading their stories and following.
I feel like the energy has shifted in the last couple years. There are not as many strong vets with solid and in-depth support. It’s often the same advice from the same posters. At times it reads confrontational and short-sighted. Sorry if that’s harsh of me, but it’s honestly what I think most days when I read a new thread. Also, Newcomers come and go much faster nowadays. I agree that it’s hard to invest the time and energy, for them to vanish and then be left wondering or perhaps worrying about them.
I don't have experience in what the boards were like previously, but I do want to make a plea for posters to keep a couple of key things in mind:
-- the LBS you are posting to is in crisis. Be kind. What you might consider to be "tough love" might drive someone who is really hurting and needs this place away. There are some posters who are able to deliver the 2x4s with love and nuance. Others can be, quite honestly, cruel. There was a poster here who helped me immensely through my situation. She was kind and direct and incredibly generous with her time and knowledge. She posted on her own thread about a very difficult situation with her H (they were in piecing) and a poster wrote a cruel and dismissive comment, basically saying he didn't know what the f!$k she was doing. That was months ago and she hasn't posted since. She'd been a member of the board for a couple of years before that and I quite honestly think his post was her last straw. I'm sad both for her but selfishly for myself as well. I considered her a friend and wish I knew how she was doing, and if this place had given her solace in the past and she needed it again, I am sad and sorry that she no longer felt safe here. Plus, her advice to me and others was gold. So I would just ask posters to be thoughtful in how they speak to people who are in pain and need support. Being a jerk isn't a badge of honor.
-- my other request is for posters to be more understanding that every LBS is different. Even if their situation seems similar to your own, they are a different person than you are and they may have different tolerances and decision-making processes than you do. So honor that. Instead of telling them what to do, ask them questions that can help them figure it out for themselves. Don't tell them you have no self-respect, or you clearly are acting out of fear, or whatever. You don't KNOW that! You may see that or think that from the outside, but telling someone what to do rarely works to change behaviors. Help them ask the right questions, release the focus from their WS, and guide them to find the answers themselves.
I do think that the tone of some of the posters is part of the reason that so many newbies come and go so quickly. I think it is possible to be supportive and a safe space for people in crisis while still providing difficult feedback to folks that need to hear it. Sandi is an example of someone who does all of this really really well. Her posts are always caring, thoughtful, and individualized to the LBS she's supporting. (thank you Sandi!!) I think we could all learn from her example.
Just my two cents,
May
I've noticed some days show little movement on the board. I just wanted to remind all our newcomers that they don't have to wait for an "update" to give us. I'd hate for anyone passing through to take a look at the forum and think this board has dried up........thereby, choosing to find another one. I'm not complaining......just concerned. This is a special place to me, b/c it played a significant part in helping me get my head back on straight.
((hugs to everyone))
sandi,
You're the main reason I keep coming back here! I read the rules, then the posts on WW.
I try and lend support where I can.
Thanks for your input, Job and Cadet. I agree about the name of the board, and have seen a few newcomers become frustrated when we would try to encourage them to focus on themselves (goals, 180's, GAL, etc.). They would say something like, "If I wanted a self-improvement course, I would have went somewhere else. I thought this board was about busting divorces."
Thanks for your kind words and encouragement, May and Drh2001. Thanks to everyone for expressing their views.
I came to this Board in January of 2000. The Board had not been around very long, but the atmosphere was quite different. Posters didn't fear what they had to say and quite honestly, they were much more open and to the point. We were allowed to post how to reach individuals off line and connect more personally that way. We had our good days and bad. We also had a number of trolls and stalkers as well. We were able to express ourselves w/o the fear of offending others. We challenged the posters far more and we gave as good as we got when it came to advice.
Yes, I noticed the change in the atmosphere about 10 years ago. People post and in some instances, do not think about how their words cut into someone's soul. They write as they would actually talk in person. People need to slow down, re-read what they've posted and think about how it sounds. The written word is open for interpretation and yes, there are times, the words are harsh and actually scream at the person seeking help. Posters tend to forget that you aren't talking to a group of people on the street corner, but through a Board w/the written word. We have to be mindful of how our postings sound to others reading them. We have had to boot a few off the Board because of this behavior over the years. It's unfortunate, but sometimes it has to be done.
The times have changed and so has the way that we communicate and express ourselves. People are more sensitive these days and people get offended much more easily. Now, we have to watch what we say and how we say it. Because of hackers and people coming and viewing what we post more readily, we have to basically water down our issues so that people lurking can't figure out where we are from and who we are. We aren't allowed to post links to other sites that may provide more insight, etc.
Like I said, times have changed and the world has become so much more competitive than it was 21 years ago and if this Board doesn't keep up w/the changes, it will slowly die off.
My 2 cents ~
I wish I had found DB earlier. I spent at least a year lurking (not posting) on a Reddit forum trying to understand how I could set things back on track with my MR. Once you sorted through the 90% of posts which were not useful, 10% were incredibly useful and much of the advice matched what I found here. But... there was not the same interactive feel and connection to other people's stories that I have found here.
By the time I found this website, I knew a BD was coming. I was online every night desperately searching for advice, saw the words "walk away spouse" in a Google search, read a couple articles that resonated with how I felt at the time, and somehow found this place. I had MWD's book shipped to an Amazon locker and jumped right in.
In other words, it was by dumb luck that I even found this forum. I will be forever grateful for the advice and interactions I have had here, and would advocate strongly for making it more easy to find.
I agree with the comments about technology. The most frustrating thing to me is posting on a mobile device.
I don't post much anymore for privacy/legal reasons. This has nothing to do with the forum or site, I just prefer to avoid taking any chances while we move through court.
Hi Job,
You have a good handle on what's happened and what would help. I suspect you know some administrative contact you are passing these along to? I've watched good, long-time message boards fade away before. You definitely have a community of people here (myself included) who would love to help out.
PS - Thank you Job and Cadet for all you do! You are doing a ton right.
You have a good handle on what's happened and what would help. I suspect you know some administrative contact you are passing these along to?
There is one administrator - Virginia.
I think I will be quiet about saying too much more.
My $0.02...
Dated Technology - The technology is dated which can turn off new users and provide a frustrating user experience for active posters:
- Website/Browser Rendering - The column on the site to read/post in is very narrow. This User Interface (UI) was clearly designed for older monitors (4:3) before the large/widescreen (16:9) monitors which most people user today, and makes the reading area small.
- Lack of Mobile App - Most people are used to using mobile apps on large smartphones which are tailored to the screen size and easier to use than a simple browser, but there is no smartphone app for this forum which I'm aware, and that makes it harder to use on the go.
- Outages - There have been outages when I've tried to reach the website or post. They're infrequent and short, but not a great look in today's day in age.
I wonder if the technology is too old, but then again I am old and things pass me by so quickly.
Maybe people don't use online forums anymore.
As far as getting new people to post - I do think UBB forums appear dated these days - been around since the 90s and the look/layout hasn't really changed a ton with the times. Someone browsing thru could likely see the layout of the board, and to be honest the look of divorcebusting.com, and move on elsewhere.
, I'm more interested in the guidance and support by other posters rather than worrying about the dated technology. It's been a year since BD for me and I've been posting for 7 months now and the posters (vets and newbies) and board has helped me immensely. I plan to continue posting on my own thread and weigh in when possible.
However...Less Posting by Vets & Newcomers - There are times when posters don't get much response/advice from folks, and I think that can lead to less frequent posts on their sitches as well. For example, I put a lot of thought and prep into my post two weeks ago for the one year anniversary of BD. To me that was a significant milestone and I was looking forward to hearing peoples' perspectives, but didn't hear much back. Also, there are times people post updates and seek advice but don't hear anything for several days or a week. A common refrain on here is post and get responses first before acting but if you're in the heart of a sitch and want to respond to a spouses email or address a particular topic, it's not always feasible to wait so long. There are a few vets that post frequently but the board could use more than just the same few. For my part, even though I'm a relative newbie, I'll try to weigh in more. I know I always got a boost of PMA when I saw someone took the time to response and weigh in on my sitch and that in and of itself helped. I imagine the same is true for most folks out there.
My other concern or question is why some people who are in the thick of things in their sitch, go for days or weeks without posting anything on their thread. I'm not talking about the people who have been around here for a long time, and who want to help someone else. I mean actual newcomers who desperately need some guidance. I don't know how many times I've written a response on a newcomer's thread, and never hear another word back from them. I don't know if they even looked to see if anyone wrote to them, or if they checked and didn't like what was said. Also, and I won't call any by name, but we've stuck with certain people very diligently, while they were going through terrible times. Then, at what seems to be the most critical point .......they fell out of sight and we were left hanging. We never know what happens. Maybe I'm just silly, but when I invest time trying to help someone, I would like to know if they are okay, at the least. I mean, we're strangers but we share very private details of each other's lives and for the most part, I think we care what happens. That's why we stick around this place. I still worry about a few that I personally spent many days mentoring them as best I could, and suddenly at the most critical point.......they'd vanish.
I feel like the energy has shifted in the last couple years. There are not as many strong vets with solid and in-depth support. It’s often the same advice from the same posters. At times it reads confrontational and short-sighted. Sorry if that’s harsh of me, but it’s honestly what I think most days when I read a new thread. Also, Newcomers come and go much faster nowadays. I agree that it’s hard to invest the time and energy, for them to vanish and then be left wondering or perhaps worrying about them. I think this has also affected my motivation to invest in people. Another difference is that this site offers more direct strategy without immediate results and it’s counter intuitive (which could be perceived as challenging or not realistic) so I do think even tho we have good intentions, people are scared off by that. Maybe they are easily finding other sites where they are mostly encouraged and validated in their efforts? Often people will often turn towards what they want to hear, rather than what is best for them.
I try and read fairly often. I don’t always feel like I have the time or energy to put a lot in. Mostly it feels like I’m not helping much. I would rather develop a few strong relationships than keep rattling off the same advice. I think the best I can do personally is update my own sitch fairly regularly.
I think the discouragement related to feedback is a good one, BL. I do think for some reasons posters are drawn to certain sitches and not to others. I know for me I don't really understand the dynamics related to same-sex relationships. And I also have been less active in most WAH/WH sitches. But even within the broad categories, there seems to be a big differential in which sitches get lost of feedback and which do not. Obviously, I do not think it is a personal thing since none of us know each other personally.
I also have gotten the sense that when someone does try to step and and be a little more active, some posters have shamed them about it. Whether it is the frequency of their responses, or not liking the content of their feedback, or maybe just not liking the poster's world view. This is why I typically do not respond to other posters in a giving feedback to the OP of the thread. The poster is asking for feedback and perspective, not for two posters to debate the techniques and the responses being given. Most of the posters that come here looking for feedback can rightfully discern what is best for their situation. So even if two different responders give two very different takes on the OP's situation, the OP can take all of that with a grain of salt, and determine the best path forward for themselves. I do think over time the board has become a little more confrontational in that regard.
I am not MWD. I am not an expert, I don't pretend to be one. I am just a guy that has been through two sitches in my MR, and am willing to share learnings and experience from those sitches. I think it has has helped some, and others maybe not so much (as evidenced by a recent newcomer telling me to get lost!). But BL I try to help those that especially do not seem to be getting much response, if with nothing else some support and encouragement.
job, I do like your comments. I think maybe the 2x4s should be a little softer, maybe use a pool noodle instead of a 2x4! LOL I know in my case good, stiff 2x4s is exactly what I needed, but that is not everyone's cup of tea.
I was just reading an article about how the prediction that suicide rates would have spiked during the pandemic didn't play out.
There were similar warnings about spousal abuse - which I haven't seen any statistics on and I would imagine that data to be fairly unreliable through poor and under-reporting.
I would though imagine that infidelity rates - one of the main causes of people coming here - are down mainly because the opportunities to be unfaithful are greatly reduced. I used to spend 14 hours a day away from home working and my now ex only worked until early afternoon. Certainly lots of free, unsupervised time on her hands especially after the kids grew up.
The data though doesn't exist in a reliable enough form to really call it one way or another I would presume because there is little reporting of infidelity. I did find some numbers from Statistics Canada that indicate that the total number of divorced persons continues to be on trend currently at 2.71 million, up from 1.88 million 20 years ago. The rate of change started declining in 2011.
This is one of those places - I think Cadet says this - the best place that you never want to be. Going out of the failed relationship business would be fabulous - but will never happen. Other forums that I've participated in - at least as an impression - also seem to be having a downturn in new arrivals. Not that I've made a study of that.
So there may be larger factors at play though than can be isolated to this forum. Relationships - although we refer to "bomb-drop" as a sudden singular event, fail and end over a period of time. The statistics that would allow us to look back though won't be reliably available for at least a couple of years.
Just a thought.
Andrew, interesting observations. I just found out that a local gun range has had three incidents in the last year where guys have come in, rented a firearm, gone into the shooting lanes with it, loaded it and shot themselves. So while the suicide rate overall might not be up, stories like this one certainly are. We've also had several barricaded police incidents recently in the immediate area (not necessarily where I live, but close enough that it made the local news), and those usually start out as domestic violence.
I do think that the pandemic has probably had a "delaying" effect on a lot of MR in crisis. As you say, the opportunities for infidelity are down, and humans tend to be very opportunistic creatures. I remember when I worked in retail the loss prevention team would always tell us the important of being on the store floor, making rounds. Because they said that 15% of people will never steal, no matter what. 15% of people will always steal, no matter what. But 70% of people will steal IF they think they can get away with it. So having a presence of employees in the store would discourage that 70%. That has always stuck with me.
I say "delaying" because like you point out, there will always be MR problems. Many WASs are probably biding their time until things normalize. However, I would think the incidence of EAs is up right now.
People have hit on it already, but for me the difference today from when I was here in 2007 is mainly the way I consume the internet. Back then it was pretty much only on the computer, which was fine for this site. Today the vast majority of my internet use when not at work is with a phone, and I'm sure this applies to a lot of people, especially those younger than 40. I think everyone would agree this site is sub-optimal on a phone, so it is just more cumbersome to visit than it used to be, as I am on my computer far less than I used to be. I can go for days without going on my computer but that wasn't the case in 2007. So I have to make more of an effort to come here, or else use the site in a way that is more difficult.
This is not a deal breaker for me, and probably not for most people, but I'm sure it keeps at least some people away some of the time. I know that I have looked at other people's threads much less than I did previously and this may contribute (but I also have a more busy job and 3 small kids I didn't have before, which probably contribute more).
I am curious about the idea above that the pandemic may have delayed some BDs. The opportunity for an A is certainly down, but I wonder how spouses being with each other much more has affected things. I can see the logic either way: for some, maybe familiarity breeds contempt if a spouse is thinking of leaving, and all of the flaws the potential WAS sees are exacerbated when you see the other all the time. But for some, especially if the main problem was that you never made time together, maybe more time together was helpful to remember the love you once had. I feel like we were a little more of the latter at the beginning but then became more of the former, but it's hard to say without her telling me her thoughts about that.
I'll keep it short but echo what many have sad about the tone as well as the poor website design.
When I came to the board - it was a well known fact that the percentage of success was small. Let's say 95% failure, 5% success.. but the board was driven to fanning the flames of the 5% of hope rather than beating us with the reality 2x4 of the 95%. That is the big different on the board that I see.
Hello, I'm a newbie and there are several things pointed out that I can comment on. Yes, the site feels very dated and the forum is not very easy to navigate, especially on a mobile device. Heck, I even have the page zoomed in on my laptop so I can see things better. As I am a creative type, this was a big turn off to me when I first logged in, but when I read more, I felt there was a lot of quality content here, so I joined in. In reading other peoples sitch's, I do feel there was more interaction and responses, and faster. I know that there are times when I wanted to get immediate advice, but once I saw no one was online, I just decided to wing it, rather than post and wait. There have been a few regulars on my feed, and I'm so grateful for their advice. And there is a lot to learn from others sitch's too.
As for the pandemic making it less easy for infidelity, that may be in physical ways, but it certainly didn't stop my H from having his EA, that still led to a PA. In fact, I would just guess there are a lot of EA's going on and people do not have any idea it's happening. I didn't find out until he decided he wanted a D and I kicked him out and he ran off to be with OW.
As for feedback, I know I have been guilty of being defensive or abrupt, but some of us are not as good with words as some, as well as I am in a lot of pain and confusion. Even if do not agree with feedback or respond a certain way now, doesn't mean that the feedback doesn't make me think, or doesn't mean something as I grow and change...so I appreciate all the feedback...good and bad, nice or firm, helpful or not. I'm very alone in my experience. Without this forum I'd be a much worse place. So as a newbie...thank you all for your efforts, and your advice, and for sticking around for us newbies way past the time you have too. I really appreciate it.
Personally, the main reason I don’t post as much anymore is that I’ve climbed out of the crisis.
But at the time this site was so central to my survival...not just getting advice from others but reading others’ stories as well. I honestly don’t even remember how I found the site!
2nd, it’s really difficult to do even a quick update on my phone. That goes with reading on my phone as well.
I think anonymity is key for a board like this, but I can see how some people would eventually want to connect further IRL. Can we start a FB group? Lol.
Vets who are still around and paying it forward are really saints. I wish I could do that more, but with work and raising three kids on my own, I just really don’t have the bandwidth
I only have the bandwidth to come here and vent about my exH lol.
Personally, the main reason I don’t post as much anymore is that I’ve climbed out of the crisis.
But at the time this site was so central to my survival...not just getting advice from others but reading others’ stories as well. I honestly don’t even remember how I found the site!
2nd, it’s really difficult to do even a quick update on my phone. That goes with reading on my phone as well.
I think anonymity is key for a board like this, but I can see how some people would eventually want to connect further IRL. Can we start a FB group? Lol.
Vets who are still around and paying it forward are really saints. I wish I could do that more, but with work and raising three kids on my own, I just really don’t have the bandwidth
I only have the bandwidth to come here and vent about my exH lol.
I have thought this so much.....I wonder if we could start an FB group somehow. And people who don't mind the lack of anonymity could join. There are so many people I would like to connect with IRL. Many of my fellow women on here I wish we could give a pep talk on the phone or go for a girls' weekend.
I have thought this so much.....I wonder if we could start an FB group somehow. And people who don't mind the lack of anonymity could join. There are so many people I would like to connect with IRL. Many of my fellow women on here I wish we could give a pep talk on the phone or go for a girls' weekend.
Yes!! I have thought this so much! How do we get permission to do this?
I agree!
I think there should be a DB IRL FB group and people could use their profile names for privacy and recognizability?
---
The strength of this board is in the people who post here. But I feel like it's pretty antiquated in terms of functionality (over phones for example) and is quickly going to lose the next generation of posters if there aren't some updates to these features.
I feel like there needs to be a way for posters to reach out to each other. Either to private message or to share contact details to communicate offline. I think we are all now on Internet 3.0 and know how to protect our online presence, deal with 'trolls' and eliminate unwanted communication. And those that don't know how to filter or are not comfortable filtering don't have to respond to their private messages?
I also think that attempting to maintain the brand identity in such strict fashion (no mentioning other books, no sharing links, not even videos on YouTube etc) is actually going to do the opposite in a matter of time. As much as we don't want to, we have to look at social media for examples of how to keep lively online social groups active and growing. And in addition to the great advice we get from others, this space would feel more wholesome if we were free to share thoughts, ideas, and inspirations from outside sources (links).
I am grateful for this space, very grateful, but some updates are sorely needed if this site wants to maintain relevancy in the future and not get taken over by another group who is able to capture the audience in a more modern way.
Just my 2 cents as an "old-timer" on the FB group concept and connecting with others IRL.
Now keep in mind that some of have indeed found each other so I like to think that I have some basis for my opinions. While I could go into some details, I won't out of respect for others involved.
Generally speaking, people who come here are in a lot of pain and have a huge "need" in them. This can be overwhelming for anyone who they may happen to connect to who have lives outside of being a therapist / support group. Also people who are in pain tend to cling to each other - not always a good idea for two hurting people to bond over mutual hurts.
There's also an unwritten principle in many 12 step programs that is referred to as the "13th step". It's where someone - usually someone who has been in the program for a while, takes advantage of those who come in who are looking for answers. It's happened here I know, and it's happened elsewhere.
Also - like cavemen sitting around a warm fire, there are lurkers in the shadows. Quite a lot of them. If connections could easily be made between someone's stories here and the actual person there could be some quite serious implications for them. Not just legal but also safety-wise.
I've been fortunate in that (generally) connections I have made have been positive and were made long after I left the rawness of the Newcomer's area. But that is most certainly not the case in all circumstances. And yes - some connections that could be made could be a very positive thing for those involved. But - in my opinion - the risks are just to high.
So - even though I may be called a hypocrite for this, I do support the policy of enforced anonymity we have here.
For those who are looking for more substantive support than what can be provided in an anonymous web forum populated by amateurs, there are easily available professional resources available. The MWD organization for example that funds and supports this site has I know very well, provided a lot of quality support to those in need. And they are a business and we are playing in their yard so we need to abide by their rules. I'm sure if you went into a Dunkin Donuts and loudly asked for directions to the local Tim Horton's Doughnuts that they would not be pleased either.
Again - just my own personal opinion. I'm not associated with the MWD organization in any way and do not speak on their behalf.
So - even though I may be called a hypocrite for this, I do support the policy of enforced anonymity we have here.
Yeap for sure... rules are selectively enforced around these parts depending upon who you are.
I can only speak for myself, but the anonymity of this forum was what made me feel safe to post my situation. And while the ideas being floated do not end anonymity for those that don't want it ended, I do think the anonymity of the forum is one of its foundational strengths.
I also agree with Andrew, this is the internet. And there are those lurking about that will gladly try to take advantage of others. I look at some of our posters that would be very susceptible to someone swooping in and acting like the hero in their life, and being open to the ulterior-motives of the "hero" is something someone going through a rough patch might take advantage of.
I was part of two other forums. One in 2005 in my first sitch. And people who didn't like what others posted actually were able to find out who they were a dox them. One poster I was close to had to eventually return with a completely different screen name due to being doxxed.
In another forum I was on before coming to this one, it was group on an IM app. I forget which one, but it turned out to be a meat-market. I had one woman that wanted to meet me and take care of my needs. When that made my uncomfortable and I left the group, she added me back to the group and said something like "OH no you don't, you don't get to get away that easy!" I left the group and deleted the app.
Let me just say that there are many people that have connected on facebook and other means.
It is not permitted or suggested by the powers here on DB that this should happen.
I am not going to get into what I think about the rule - I am just letting everyone know that it is really
not permitted here.
I should point out that the intermittent database errors that occur do not help either. Nothing turns people away more than thinking they've found an active forum only to click on a link and have an error come up. Newcomers that get an error on their first visit probably do not return.
Let me just say that there are many people that have connected on facebook and other means.
It is not permitted or suggested by the powers here on DB that this should happen.
I am not going to get into what I think about the rule - I am just letting everyone know that it is really
not permitted here.
and yet openly flaunted on here by some and no one bats an eye... then others do it and they get warned or reprimanded. Rules are applied quite selectively.
Let me just say that there are many people that have connected on facebook and other means.
It is not permitted or suggested by the powers here on DB that this should happen.
I am not going to get into what I think about the rule - I am just letting everyone know that it is really
not permitted here.
and yet openly flaunted on here by some and no one bats an eye... then others do it and they get warned or reprimanded. Rules are applied quite selectively.
Your right they are selective because you get paid the same amount as me and there are only 2 of us.
We miss a lot.
Sorry about that.