https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2914277&page=10Previous thread.
So, today I get my loan for 17k. I had to contact her and let her know I gave the broker his fee because it was facilitated through her. (Was absolutely neccesary) I only sent a screen shot that I had paid the man. She replies with this "I dont see the money for me finding the loan or the money for my gucci purse you promised"
I have not responded. I know no matter what I say she will fire back a rude, demeaning and disrespectful comment. If i give her the money she will just pretend she cares, I will slide futher into pathetic LBH land and she will be happy. So I certainly dont want to do that. Especially after this:
Tomorrow is the 10th anniversary of our marriage. Until she pays the filing fee we are legally still married. Papers signed everything ready to go but she owes the L money. So thats in limbo atm. Also after her giving me the "I love you husband" card on the 14th then going out of town to meet up with a man she was talking to (lied she wasnt talking to anyone of course) I called it, snapped and havent said anything besides the loan the last 4 days. She sent me a picture of the purse she had bought, a $3,000 Gucci bag and said she ditched the date because of me and bought a purse instead and now feels like I should owe her. I think she is pretending she caught a whiff of guilt or something and is trying to test to see how pathetic I will respond. I have not.
I am deciding if I should respond to her message today where she asked me about paying for the purse. I did tell her I wanted to get her something nice for our 10th anniversary (before I knew she was talking to other men). Now that I do I sure as hell dont feel like doing anything. I am not a mean person so I dont want to fire back some emotional anger response I feel like saying absolutely nothing. I will be spending the day alone tomorrow on our 10th anniversary. I havent decided what to do yet.I am leaning on zero response. (I think so far thats been the only thing ive done right the last 4 days).
So far with that loan I paid off my truck, a credit card and a personal loan. That saves me $620 a month. I bought myself a new beard trimmer, some protien powder I really like, a blender bottle, a dresser and a couple new grunt style T shirts in XL since I am no longer XXL. I tucked away 10k for savings and put around $500 into Acorns (the stock savings kinda app). Thats it. I certainly dont want to shoot $1500 to someone spoiled woman who believes to be entitled to it since I am the weak simp that always takes care of her. I was considering splurgin one time and taking myself out tomorrow, maybe to the gun range to shoot a bit, maybe to a cabin and go fishing. Havent decided but Ill do something for sure, alone, wont respond to her. She WILL try to illicit something on our 10th Ill bet. I cannot buckle. I want to respond, I want to say (I would love to buy you that stuff for our anniversary, Its really important to me and I wanted to spoil you, but I cant do that while you are seeing other men, I wont. ) but even that she will fire back something like "wow, you liar" or "wow your so sensitive" or "you always get nasty when its not your way" or just something stupid to punish me for standing up for myself, whenever I do i get punished and fold. I wont do that.
I talked to my IC about that and he said "wow man you sound a lot better than you did last month, it seems like logically you get it, you just gotta keep making your heart believe what your mind knows is true" So thats what Im working on.
My plan is to do nothing at all whatsoever and let her just go off pretty much. I expect it to get nasty, I expect her to threaten to go out with more men, pretty much anything to hurt me for not complying with her demands. Thats the bed I made for myself with this woman and I gotta face that now unfortunately. She will not like me ignoring her at all. She will get nasty.
Many years ago I left to a friends house when we had a fight. She drove around town looking for me, the three of us were walking back from a supermarket and she spotted us. She jumped out of the car with her friend ran up to me punched me twice and kicked me once. (only time she ever did that, like 7 years ago or so) I did not move and took it out of 1. shock and 2. I was holding a 30 pack of bud light and didnt wanna drop it. She then got in the friends car and sped away yelling out the window "im gonna go [censored] someone and send you a picture" ... yeah thats the person she is. This is gonna get ugly. I have never stood up to this and said '"no" until now. Storm incoming...
Don't respond. Nothing to say.
I can't pretend I understand the financial part, the loan, whether or not she has any right to the funds since you're still legally M-- all of that is totally beyond me-- but why don't you just pay the L the filing fee so that you can be free?
Steve,
I'm also lost on the loan part. Really lost TBH.
Couple of things ( which are none of my business, but make me wonder your reasonings )
Why take out $17000, to put $10000 in savings ? I cannot believe the saving interest rate is better than the loan interest rate.
Why involve WW.. I'm pretty sure there would be a way not to involve her..
Very first thing that came to my mind when i read this post was that you are trying to show WW you are cash rich.. i.e look what you are missing WW..I've now got money..
Similar to your cabin trick with the kids...
Call me sceptical, but seems like more manipulation on your part. I would move heaven and earth to avoid my WW knowing my finances - You do the opposite !
Hi Steve,
As usual, I'm confused.
She replies with this "I dont see the money for me finding the loan or the money for my gucci purse you promised"
Steve, did you unblock her cell phone and/or social messaging? Your plan was e-mail only.
So, today I get my loan for 17k. I had to contact her and let her know I gave the broker his fee because it was facilitated through her. (Was absolutely neccesary) I only sent a screen shot that I had paid the man. She replies with this "I dont see the money for me finding the loan or the money".. So far with that loan I paid off my truck, a credit card and a personal loan. That saves me $620 a month. If i give her the money she will..
It sounds like this $17,000 loan is important to you, you reached out to her meaning you couldn't do it on your own, and her risk/involvement was significant enough it was "absolutely necessary" to send her proof of payment. Set aside your anger and how she may respond. Connect with Steve's values. What did you promise her? If this were an acquaintance you met at a grocer who did this for you, what would you give them in return? My values would include fulfilling any promises and, if nothing were promised, offering a thank you gift (<$100). Your values may differ. Do what will make you proud of your actions 5yrs from now.
my gucci purse you promised. She sent me a picture of the purse she had bought, a $3,000 Gucci bag and said she ditched the date because of me and bought a purse instead and now feels like I should owe her. . I certainly dont want to shoot $1500 to someone spoiled woman who believes to be entitled to it
Well, if you promised to pay for half or a full Gucci purse in return for the above or some other task, I would keep my word. If the idea sprung from her head out-of-the-blue, I would not respond. I try to live my life according to my values, not according to how I imagine someone else may feel about it.
but even that she will fire back something like "wow, you liar" or "wow your so sensitive" or "you always get nasty when its not your way" or just something stupid to punish me for standing up for myself, whenever I do i get punished and fold. I wont do that.
You're making more good choices, but your focus is still misplaced on how she may or may not respond.
I would love to buy you that stuff for our anniversary, Its really important to me and I wanted to spoil you, but I cant do that while you are seeing other men, I wont.. but even that she will fire back something like "wow, you liar" or "wow your so sensitive" or "you always get nasty when its not your way" or just something stupid to punish me for standing up for myself,
Agreed, bad idea, and even worse if she responds favorably and you have a good anniversary together--since that pulls you and your kids deeper again into this ridiculously bad situation.
Why take out $17000, to put $10000 in savings ? I cannot believe the saving interest rate is better than the loan interest rate.
I missed this. I agree it sounds questionable. If the savings rate or acorn interest rate were better choices, the person writing the loan would not do so, they'd simply tuck their money into savings or acorn. This raises questions about other motives or the "shady people" he says his wife is involved with.
ah I get it, the 10k isnt just to sit on its to pay into my school so I can continue onto my RN program, The VA decided they wouldnt cover some of the final stuff and im working on them to see what they will do before I shell out the rest. Yeah it would be nuts to borrow money to sit on it and pay intrest, im not that stupid. the APR is around 8% definately not just sitting on that. Overall it was a debt consolidation loan.
I just wasnt sure what to do on this since she did help me get it and I did tell her I wanted to do something for her for helping me, but now that shes gone off the rails with other guys it seems like i really dont want to do that. She is not entitled to anything and i didnt actually promise, I just told her I wanted to. So I wasnt sure how to handle it. For now no response is best I believe.
Sounds good, Steve, good work thinking through this instead of reaching out to her.
Steve,
You're making progress man. I wouldn't give that woman a cent for a Gucci purse. And bet your bottom dollar she did not cancel her date, she just wants you to believe that so you will cave.
Crazy story for you... when my ex last BD'd me, she was nasty and cruel. She was disrespectful and hateful towards me for no reason, we didn't even have a fight.
Then one day, about 2 weeks before she was going to move out, she became very nice all of a sudden. She was polite and respectful. Then she asked me if would give her $2,900 to pay her back for all the groceries she had bought for the last 10 months so she could use that money to get her new place. I was taken aback and caught off guard but said I would think about it. She remained nice and polite for the next week while I thought about things.
A week later she comes up to me and asks if I had thought about the $2,900. I said I had thought about it and decided I didn't owe her a dime. Her buying groceries was her ONLY financial contribution to our relationship, I literally paid for everything and that if she felt that was unfair, we could put all our contributions on a spreadsheet and see who truly owed who money. The second I told her I was not giving her money, she snapped back in a rage and said "this just confirms my reasons for leaving you!!!". I told her this just confirmed why I wouldn't want her back and I walked away.
My point is that you cannot trust this woman. She will manipulate you to the gates of hell (if you allow her to).
Looking back (I've been NC for 16 months now), I am SOOOOO glad I had the balls to finally not let her manipulate me. If I had given her that money, I would hate myself for it now.
Don't cave! Or you will regret it later!
She replies with this "I dont see the money for me finding the loan or the money for my gucci purse you promised"
I have not responded.
Good for you!
I talked to my IC about that and he said "wow man you sound a lot better than you did last month, it seems like logically you get it, you just gotta keep making your heart believe what your mind knows is true" So thats what Im working on.
Glad to hear it, Steve.
My plan is to do nothing at all whatsoever and let her just go off pretty much. I expect it to get nasty, I expect her to threaten to go out with more men, pretty much anything to hurt me for not complying with her demands. Thats the bed I made for myself with this woman and I gotta face that now unfortunately. She will not like me ignoring her at all. She will get nasty.
When you stop giving her revelence in your life, she's left to deal with her own mess. She only gets something out of this bad behavior when she knows it is tearing you apart. Save yourself, Steve.
As for the anniversary, just don't respond or react to anything she might say or do. As far as you are concerned, it's just another day on the calendar. You see, our society has been programed and men, especially, think they have to do something or say something on those days. It's hogwash! Don't you dare wish her a happy anniversary........or respond to something she says.
I know you aren't a mean man. I want you to understand not responding to her is not being a
mean man. Going no contact is not mean. Get that notion out of your head, okay? It is necessary that you show no interest, no value, no response to anything she says. You must do this in order for you to heal and have some normalcy in your life.
((hugs))
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2914277&page=10Previous thread.
So, today I get my loan for 17k. I had to contact her and let her know I gave the broker his fee because it was facilitated through her. (Was absolutely neccesary) I only sent a screen shot that I had paid the man. She replies with this "I dont see the money for me finding the loan or the money for my gucci purse you promised"
I have not responded. I know no matter what I say she will fire back a rude, demeaning and disrespectful comment. If i give her the money she will just pretend she cares, I will slide futher into pathetic LBH land and she will be happy. So I certainly dont want to do that. Especially after this:
Tomorrow is the 10th anniversary of our marriage. Until she pays the filing fee we are legally still married. Papers signed everything ready to go but she owes the L money. So thats in limbo atm. Also after her giving me the "I love you husband" card on the 14th then going out of town to meet up with a man she was talking to (lied she wasnt talking to anyone of course) I called it, snapped and havent said anything besides the loan the last 4 days. She sent me a picture of the purse she had bought, a $3,000 Gucci bag and said she ditched the date because of me and bought a purse instead and now feels like I should owe her. I think she is pretending she caught a whiff of guilt or something and is trying to test to see how pathetic I will respond. I have not.
I am deciding if I should respond to her message today where she asked me about paying for the purse. I did tell her I wanted to get her something nice for our 10th anniversary (before I knew she was talking to other men). Now that I do I sure as hell dont feel like doing anything. I am not a mean person so I dont want to fire back some emotional anger response I feel like saying absolutely nothing. I will be spending the day alone tomorrow on our 10th anniversary. I havent decided what to do yet.I am leaning on zero response. (I think so far thats been the only thing ive done right the last 4 days).
So far with that loan I paid off my truck, a credit card and a personal loan. That saves me $620 a month. I bought myself a new beard trimmer, some protien powder I really like, a blender bottle, a dresser and a couple new grunt style T shirts in XL since I am no longer XXL. I tucked away 10k for savings and put around $500 into Acorns (the stock savings kinda app). Thats it. I certainly dont want to shoot $1500 to someone spoiled woman who believes to be entitled to it since I am the weak simp that always takes care of her. I was considering splurgin one time and taking myself out tomorrow, maybe to the gun range to shoot a bit, maybe to a cabin and go fishing. Havent decided but Ill do something for sure, alone, wont respond to her. She WILL try to illicit something on our 10th Ill bet. I cannot buckle. I want to respond, I want to say (I would love to buy you that stuff for our anniversary, Its really important to me and I wanted to spoil you, but I cant do that while you are seeing other men, I wont. ) but even that she will fire back something like "wow, you liar" or "wow your so sensitive" or "you always get nasty when its not your way" or just something stupid to punish me for standing up for myself, whenever I do i get punished and fold. I wont do that.
I talked to my IC about that and he said "wow man you sound a lot better than you did last month, it seems like logically you get it, you just gotta keep making your heart believe what your mind knows is true" So thats what Im working on.
My plan is to do nothing at all whatsoever and let her just go off pretty much. I expect it to get nasty, I expect her to threaten to go out with more men, pretty much anything to hurt me for not complying with her demands. Thats the bed I made for myself with this woman and I gotta face that now unfortunately. She will not like me ignoring her at all. She will get nasty.
Many years ago I left to a friends house when we had a fight. She drove around town looking for me, the three of us were walking back from a supermarket and she spotted us. She jumped out of the car with her friend ran up to me punched me twice and kicked me once. (only time she ever did that, like 7 years ago or so) I did not move and took it out of 1. shock and 2. I was holding a 30 pack of bud light and didnt wanna drop it. She then got in the friends car and sped away yelling out the window "im gonna go [censored] someone and send you a picture" ... yeah thats the person she is. This is gonna get ugly. I have never stood up to this and said '"no" until now. Storm incoming...
Hold the line my friend. You owe her ZERO. NADA. NOTHING. Just do you and keep radio silence! I love this update, keep up the progress, Steve_!
Hey Steve, if you have the time, maybe you could send us a daily post, just so we'll know you are okay. You don't have to wait until you have an "update".
Let me get this straight. Your WW spent $3,000 on a Gucci bag but hasn't paid her L?
Don't respond to anything she says. Your WW is disrespectful to you and is manipulative. Treat yourself for your 10th, hang out with friends....she's already lost to you.
Let me get this straight. Your WW spent $3,000 on a Gucci bag but hasn't paid her L?
Unless she's got the expensive wardrobe to go with it, she going to look pretty stupid showing off a Gucci. Call me cheap, but I can think of a lot of things to spend $3,000 on, and it's
not a purse.
Here's the thing, Steve. She will try to pressure you by
guilting you into giving her that money. I don't care what you said before she took off to meet that man.........it was cancelled out by her actions, b/c you were deceived. You don't owe her squat! Don't listen to any of her garbage, and don't respond.
((hugs))
Not much to report.
Lately I took my son fishing, got some new gym clothes, couple things I wanted.
For me I am continuing IC, I am working as much as I can, I try not to think about this, I am beginning to see happiness with someone else later but I don’t want to go looking for it. I will just sit here quietly, work on my fitness, my kids and that’s about it. I’m gonna double down at the gym before the depression has me bounce back to pre-BD weight. It’s trying. Only thing I can do at this point is honestly nothing. Which is weird for me. But it is what it is.
Yes there are a lot of times during the day the loneliness gets me, I wish I had someone to love that reciprocated, but that’s the codependency issue I’m struggling with. I need to get to the point where I’m totally okay alone. Where I find contentment. Then I can go from there. It is a daily struggle and I still feel sad about losing the image of what my wife and I were but it’s all it was, an image. In my mind, Nothing more.
Steve_, I feel you man. I think loneliness is natural, even if we are content and happy on our own. I didn't marry until 29 years old. I was a bachelor on my own for several years. I was perfectly happy living on my own and content in how my life was. I would work, go to gym and workout, hang out with friends in the evening and weekends, and go on occasional dates (when I wasn't in a R). But there were times I was lonely. And that is when I would reach out to friends and family.
I like your last few updates. Well done!
Steve,
I used a website called meetup.com to find some activities to do. Like SteveLW said, reach out to family and friends. Make new ones if you don't have enough.
Hey Steve,
I don't have much in the way of advice but wanted to offer my support.
You are doing the right thing for you and your kids. Hang in there, I promise it gets better and you will be happy again.
Thornton
Steve_, how are things going? I'd love to have you check in here at least once a day even if it is just to say "Nothing new to report!"
In my sitch, updating my sitch regularly was cathartic. And as I improved in my DBing getting that feedback (and the 2x4s when I slipped up) were invaluable.
Hope you are doing well Steve! As others have said you are a really good dude and you deserve to be happy.
Doing okay,
Sort of finally accepted things. I don't really talk to WW unless its absolutely neccesary. She prodded out yesterday a bit asking me about getting a compression belt for her recent hernia surgery. I told her only "if its comfortable, that's fine, go for it" that was it. Not another word. I did get called by the discharge nurse because I am still "the husband" when she went into recovery on Tuesday and I took her home (nobody else could literally, she thanked me and that was it, simple nothing else). I took my son and left to the gym, she complimented my new clothes, new haircut and my physique improvement, I said thank you and left. Very simple.
Since then I haven't said anything to her, that was Tuesday. I feel a bit mixed up. This is the least contact I have had with her since BD and OM. Its hard because I want to reach out and say xxx and yyy but I have realized it makes zero difference. All this time I refused to accept what she told me with her words and actions. I finally actually have. I do sometimes feel defeated but I know I gave it a really good shot and im okay with that. I really did do my best to love her through it. I don't have any regrets besides not standing up for myself sooner, this stage is now depression. I am doing alright with it, hitting the gym, cooking for myself, talking to friends and so on. I am starting to imagine a life without my WW but it still scares me, the "unknown" I know that I will eventually be happy again but for now things suck. I get some small moments in my day where I watch a tv show or do other things that help me not think about it. So far its just NC and trying to GAL. I did ask a female coworker I have a lot in common with out to dinner. I don't expect anything, just to go out with a person that gets me. I don't need any drama right now, I just did it to have some interaction besides with my kids or at work.
Just moving forward one day at a time and trying to take a step away from this each day. Its tough but ill get there. The depression gets to me sometimes but its not so much feeling like I need to take any action, its more of a "wish it went different" and looking back and realizing just how bad it all was.
Since then I haven't said anything to her, that was Tuesday. I feel a bit mixed up. This is the least contact I have had with her since BD and OM.
Steve if this is true and all this time the longest you have gone is 1 day without contact and you are all out of sorts I think this is way past our pay grade. I think you may need a major help to get you to a good place. I am not sure I have ever seen such an unhealthy attachment to another human being. Can your work place help you?
One foot in front of the other, Steve. Just keep going.
Keep going to the gym and really pushing yourself. Also there's lots of good material on Youtube that would be good for you. I remember watching countless Ted talks on relationships etc that was very helpful for me.
No LH its not ever, its since she moved back into her mom's, since OM has been gone about a month. She started the push/pull game when she broke up then decided to go to just push since I was so available. She is literally trying to keep one hand on me and one hand in the jar of OMs. So this would be the longest I have gone without actually putting any effort into doing anything since OM has been gone. yes its only been a couple days but for me I haven't really had a sense of honestly giving up until a couple days ago. I really feel like I gave it my best shot. No need to tell me how attached I was or whatever else, I get it. It took a long time, I know.
Steve,
I am just not sure what we can do here. I honestly believe for whatever reason you can't let go. I believe that you want to do it. That's why I think you need professional advice. Nothing we have said has helped you in any way and I don't see that changing. It must be an awful feeling.
Steve_, yesterday, last week, last month, last year.....all water under the bridge. What you do from this point forward is what is important. You can do this! You can find the inner-strength to move forward with your life and leave the past behind you. You will have up and downs, just don't let the roller-coaster ride cause you to fall out.
So any plans for tonight, and the next few days? Remember, staying busy will help keep you from wanting to reach out.
Just the gym, did some grocery shopping went home. I don’t need to worry about reaching out. What stops me Is knowing it won’t matter so I just don’t. Yes it’s hard but I just don’t do it. At some point I had to stop so I did. Neither one of us have gone this long without some game or maniulation or excuse to reach out. About something since Om was gone. Since I stoped so did she. The silence is hard but I am doing it. It’s not more complicated than that. It’s not a game for me anymore. I just don’t have anything else to say especially since it wouldn’t matter if I did. Yes it’s lonely yes facing the facts and not being in la la land anymore is not so easy but I am doing it.
What stops me Is knowing it won’t matter so I just don’t. Yes it’s hard but I just don’t do it. At some point I had to stop so I did. Neither one of us have gone this long without some game or maniulation or excuse to reach out. About something since Om was gone. Since I stoped so did she. The silence is hard but I am doing it. It’s not more complicated than that. It’s not a game for me anymore.
Being very honest with yourself is good, Steve. Knowing it won't matter is accepting the fact you can't "do something" to change things with her. This is where you have to be in order to start building a new life for you. Yes, the silence is hard, and probably feels strange, but look at you. You
are doing it.
Thank you for dropping a line a two. It doesn't have to be any update, but just hearing you say these few words lets us know you are still hanging in there.
((hugs))
Good to hear from you, Steve. Keep your head up. You've got good days ahead of you. Even if you can't see it right now. A few months from now you'll be wondering why you were so upset. You've got this...
I just wanted to drop by and offer some encouragement.
This is all temporary. You are going to find your inner peace and find your happiness. And you’re going to find this thru yourself and not someone else. It’s so important to be able to find happiness and define who you are thru yourself and never ever allow yourself to be defined by someone else, to rely on your happiness through someone else. And right now I know you are hurting and I know you are depressed but these are the first steps to being happy without someone else making you happy.
I know you feel hopeless, but right now you are on the cusp of potential greatness for you.
Keep focusing on you, and your kids. Stay focused on how you and your kids deserve better.
Your ex isn’t done messing with you. I guarantee you that so stay vigilant.
And remember, you never ever know what today can bring. As you know one moment can change everything. And you never know what day is going to change everything for the positive.
Keep your head up, keep moving forward.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This!
You get it, Joseph, and I hope Steve can sense the wisdom through your personal experience in all the posts you've written him.
So a pretty eventful week.
WW got me a pair of nikes made for nurses that I wanted. Told me she wants to go to Hawaii with me in a month and the kids. To take the time off work. Became very sweet. I went over to her moms to get mine and my kids hair cut and she asked me to go hiking, to come over etc etc. I just sat there and looked at her in the most like are you serious look I could muster and said “honey I’m not a side husband. You can be single or you can be with me fixing this, it’s not both.” She just said “well I’m not even going out of doing anything just be patient let me see if this is what I want” I laughed and said well, it’s not like I barely know you and I’m asking for a commitment. We have kids and we are about to get divorced. It’s in or out, I honestly do love you but I certainly don’t need this. She looked really surprised. She said “just let it happen naturally” legit her mom and sister heard it and called her a dumbass in her language. She bought me dinner i played cards with her mom and her and then I left. I felt like.. nothing. Like i felt bad for her in a way that her games aren’t working on me. I only shrugged when she reached for a hug. She then got mad. I asked her to take the kids early so I could go out with friends. She said “don’t get drunk and come over here, or text me ultimatums, you know I don’t like that” I laughed in her face and just got in my truck. She actually thought I would try it lmao.
I went out. I dressed nicely I left her there, and just like sort of laughed at the stupidity I just witnessed. I went out with 3 girls from work and had a blast. My WW tried to ask with who, where I went, etc etc. I didn’t say. Turns out one has been wanting me a long time, she is tall and beautiful, and her BF dumped her that night. She was all over me. I brought her back to my place and I sat her down and just listened to her vent. I had /have no intention of being with anyone. It totally messed with her head I didn’t try to sleep with her. She looked at me and said.. she doesn’t deserve you. I just said “I know” and listened to her talk. At this point both of us are a trainwreck. But it was nice to have a really good looking woman be all over me and pretty much have the strength to friend zone her cause I’m not needing another drama bomb.
All day today random girls That were new kept making comments to me. It’s like something changed and they are looking at me different. A nurse I’m not into asked me to come over and just do the thing. I declined and said you are amazing and I couldn’t do that. (Truth is I don’t even like her that way). I made an appointment to get the rest of my tattoo done Sunday a full-sleeve. I made it to the gym tonight and worked my ass off. Posted a pic and tons of my friends are telling me how great I’m looking. I have made massive improvements.
And my WW goes on a date with a dude. Tonight. I hear it because my friends seen her. And you know what I said? LOL... she almost had me. I knew she was full of it.
I made a study group to help two buddies from work through nursing school. They are coming this week. Also I am taking my kids hiking with a bunch of nurses and friends at work this week. Am I’m okay? No. So I love my wife.. yes I do. But I know it’s over. And it [censored] but I’m gonna be okay.
So you’re not blocking her...
Have you filed?
WW got me a pair of nikes made for nurses that I wanted. Told me she wants to go to Hawaii with me in a month and the kids. To take the time off work. Became very sweet. I went over to her moms to get mine and my kids hair cut and she asked me to go hiking, to come over etc etc. I just sat there and looked at her in the most like are you serious look I could muster and said “honey I’m not a side husband. You can be single or you can be with me fixing this, it’s not both.” She just said “well I’m not even going out of doing anything just be patient let me see if this is what I want” I laughed and said well, it’s not like I barely know you and I’m asking for a commitment. We have kids and we are about to get divorced. It’s in or out, I honestly do love you but I certainly don’t need this. She looked really surprised. She said “just let it happen naturally” legit her mom and sister heard it and called her a dumbass in her language. She bought me dinner i played cards with her mom and her and then I left. I felt like.. nothing. Like i felt bad for her in a way that her games aren’t working on me. I only shrugged when she reached for a hug. She then got mad. I asked her to take the kids early so I could go out with friends. She said “don’t get drunk and come over here, or text me ultimatums, you know I don’t like that” I laughed in her face and just got in my truck. She actually thought I would try it lmao.
Steve,
you are making great progress, and i applaud you for not jumping into bed with other women. You dont need this in your life now, so well done..
However the above is just too much interaction. I just hope your children didnt see it.
Let her mother cut their hair - As for you, i would stick to drop offs and collections and stay at the door / in your truck.
This is WAY too much interaction, and your WW ( she really is a piece of work ) is trying to manipulate.
For your part, you are still implying you would reconcile with this piece of work - Which i find insane. She will draw you in and spit you out for the rest of your life if you all - she will not change !
I don’t text, call or contact her. I went to get our hair cuts and it was my daughters first ever hair cut she is 5 so the WW came over to supervise it. I was not going to tell her she cannot be around for we daughters first ever hair cut. At some point I have to interact with her in person having the kids and I cannot help what she tries to say. I tried to handle it the best I could. I still have feelings for my wife but they are becoming less and less as time goes on. I do have loneliness and sadness but I am not the disaster I was a month ago. Other than that Interaction for the hair cuts there hasn’t been any. And yes the D is now filed.
TO MrBSide's point, Steve_ you have made progress. But is obvious that if she were to say the right things "I WANT to be in the marriage, stop the D, and work on this" you'd be open to it. She knows that. But she is trying to skate the line of WW's: do what she wants, but keep you waiting in the wings. At this point with your situtation, I would prefer if you were replacing “honey I’m not a side husband. You can be single or you can be with me fixing this, it’s not both.” with "Woman, not if you were the last female on planet Earth!"
BUT, having said that, this is so much better than running out and buying her flowers and gifts only to find gifts from OM1-12! So good job on standing your ground. I think as you continue to wake up to life post-D you will realize that this is the best thing for you, and that you will be so much happier without her drama and always having to wonder what she is doing and who she is doing it with. I mean, seriously, will you ever fully trust her ever again? Most MR can barely withstand 1 or 2 As, your STBXW has been an A per minute!
Also good job on not just running around bandaiding your pain with wanton sex. Well done, most guys in that situation would have been all about getting some just for the sake of getting some, and not caring who got hurt. I think it is LH that said that no matter what women say, the vast majority of them are always wanting more (IE long-term commitment). I think of the movie Vanilla Sky where Tom Cruise thought he had nothing more than a sex buddy, and Cameron Diaz thought that the sex meant he was hers! So well done. The only thing worse than having trouble with one significant other is having trouble with two significant others!
I made a study group to help two buddies from work through nursing school. They are coming this week. Also I am taking my kids hiking with a bunch of nurses and friends at work this week. Am I’m okay? No. So I love my wife.. yes I do. But I know it’s over. And it [censored] but I’m gonna be okay.
LOVE IT!!!!
Steve,
I will start by saying I see a very slight improvement in you.
WW got me a pair of nikes made for nurses that I wanted. Told me she wants to go to Hawaii with me in a month and the kids. To take the time off work.
Are you considering going?
Became very sweet. I went over to her moms to get mine and my kids hair cut and she asked me to go hiking, to come over etc etc.
I really think you should get their haircuts elsewhere
I just sat there and looked at her in the most like are you serious look I could muster and said “honey I’m not a side husband. You can be single or you can be with me fixing this, it’s not both.” She just said “well I’m not even going out of doing anything just be patient let me see if this is what I want” I laughed and said well, it’s not like I barely know you and I’m asking for a commitment. We have kids and we are about to get divorced.
So what does a side husband look like to you? Because honestly you seem like one right now.
[quote=Steve_] It’s in or out, I honestly do love you but I certainly don’t need this.
Ok so she's out. Now what? What changes?
She bought me dinner i played cards with her mom and her and then I left.
See to me this sounds like a side husband who's W is out aka "friendzone"
hmmmmmmmm?
Like i felt bad for her in a way that her games aren’t working on me.
hmmmmmmmm?
She said “don’t get drunk and come over here, or text me ultimatums, you know I don’t like that” I laughed in her face and just got in my truck.
She is mocking you here Steve. Total display of disrespect!
At this point both of us are a trainwreck.
I can not disagree with this statement right now.
But it was nice to have a really good looking woman be all over me and pretty much have the strength to friend zone her cause I’m not needing another drama bomb.
hmmmmmmm? Feels like their may be an ulterior motive here
A nurse I’m not into asked me to come over and just do the thing.
What thing?
Posted a pic and tons of my friends are telling me how great I’m looking.
hmmmmmmm? Feels like their may be an ulterior motive here
And my WW goes on a date with a dude. Tonight.
You could set your watch by it
I hear it because my friends seen her. And you know what I said? LOL... she almost had me.
almost?
I made a study group to help two buddies from work through nursing school. They are coming this week. Also I am taking my kids hiking with a bunch of nurses and friends at work this week.
This is good stuff!
Am I’m okay? No. So I love my wife.. yes I do. But I know it’s over. And it [censored] but I’m gonna be okay.
Steve you will NEVER be ok until you get off the roller coaster
@ LH19
With the hawaii thing yeah, I dont think so lol.
I will get the kids haircuts by thier grandmother, but I will wait to do it until a day I know WW will not be there. I made an exception since it was the very first haircut for my D5.
Yeah she said she doesnt want to be with anyone. I got that, yet she thinks I will do family stuff with her, go on hikes, camping, vacation. Thats the side husband, yeah no. Im not doing that. Once she decided she wants to cake eat and openly disrespected me I just said no. I have not said a word sense tuesday. And I wont. I will not be an option to use to ease her little single mom pity party.
The other things had no ulterior motives. (I think i see what you think i was doing lol). The Pretty girl was just a co-worker friend. I was just trying to go out and do things. I didnt post my stuff on social media, im not stupid enough to engage in a jealousy war with a WW. The gym stuff I posted since i just hit the 60 pounds lost mark. Otherwise I dont put anything up except photos when I do something with the kids or sometimes at the gym thats it.
Im going to see if the church walking distance to my apartment is open to doing things on sundays, my kids need moral fortitiude in thier lives and I think taking them to church on sundays would be really good to help them grow in a new way. Anything to peel them off the ipads and maybe even give them some human interaction. Mom does nothing with them anymore.
You’re getting stronger, Steve. I like the progress you are making, keep going.
@ LH19
With the hawaii thing yeah, I dont think so lol.
I will get the kids haircuts by thier grandmother, but I will wait to do it until a day I know WW will not be there. I made an exception since it was the very first haircut for my D5.
Yeah she said she doesnt want to be with anyone. I got that, yet she thinks I will do family stuff with her, go on hikes, camping, vacation. Thats the side husband, yeah no. Im not doing that. Once she decided she wants to cake eat and openly disrespected me I just said no. I have not said a word sense tuesday. And I wont. I will not be an option to use to ease her little single mom pity party.
The other things had no ulterior motives. (I think i see what you think i was doing lol). The Pretty girl was just a co-worker friend. I was just trying to go out and do things. I didnt post my stuff on social media, im not stupid enough to engage in a jealousy war with a WW. The gym stuff I posted since i just hit the 60 pounds lost mark. Otherwise I dont put anything up except photos when I do something with the kids or sometimes at the gym thats it.
Im going to see if the church walking distance to my apartment is open to doing things on sundays, my kids need moral fortitiude in thier lives and I think taking them to church on sundays would be really good to help them grow in a new way. Anything to peel them off the ipads and maybe even give them some human interaction. Mom does nothing with them anymore.
This right here is what it’s all about. Fantastic!!
I went over to her moms to get mine and my kids hair cut and she asked me to go hiking, to come over etc etc. I just sat there and looked at her in the most like are you serious look I could muster and said “honey I’m not a side husband.
The only thing I would change about this statement is to not make it from your MIL's place. Nothing wrong with grandma cutting the kids' hair, but there are plenty of options out there for haircuts and you should be taking that opportunity to interact with women and gain confidence and relationship skills.
I brought her back to my place and I sat her down and just listened to her vent.
Lol, not sure if serious Steve. Honestly, if it got that far with me that women would have been in my bed. And the other one too. Hopefully the positive attention is giving you a boost, but don't let it be your everything.
And my WW goes on a date with a dude. Tonight. I hear it because my friends seen her. And you know what I said? LOL... she almost had me. I knew she was full of it.
Tell your friends that y'all are separated and you don't need to hear about her anymore.
Anyways, you seem to be growing, good on you.
IDK, but this entire interaction you have with her seems a lot like game playing to me. You want so badly to say something that's going to be real impressive and get her to thinking in favor of the MR. If it's so painfully obvious to me, I cringe to think how it looks to her.
I just sat there and looked at her in the most like are you serious look I could muster and said “honey I’m not a side husband. You can be single or you can be with me fixing this, it’s not both.” She just said “well I’m not even going out of doing anything just be patient let me see if this is what I want” I laughed and said well, it’s not like I barely know you and I’m asking for a commitment. We have kids and we are about to get divorced. It’s in or out, I honestly do love you but I certainly don’t need this. She looked really surprised. She said “just let it happen naturally” legit her mom and sister heard it and called her a dumbass in her language.
Tell me what part of having no relationship talk do you not understand? Seriously! FWIW, you didn't come off as cool, impressive, or anything but the same old Steve who would take her back in a flat half second. What part of this little talk did you tell her something you haven't already told her, or that she didn't already know? Next time, leave off where you give her the look.
She bought me dinner i played cards with her mom and her and then I left. I felt like.. nothing. Like i felt bad for her in a way that her games aren’t working on me. I only shrugged when she reached for a hug. She then got mad. I asked her to take the kids early so I could go out with friends. She said “don’t get drunk and come over here, or text me ultimatums, you know I don’t like that” I laughed in her face and just got in my truck. She actually thought I would try it lmao.
It's all game playing!!! You love playing the games, especially when you think you are getting one up on her. You are way too obvious, Steve.
Turns out one has been wanting me a long time, she is tall and beautiful, and her BF dumped her that night. She was all over me. I brought her back to my place and I sat her down and just listened to her vent. I had /have no intention of being with anyone.
And now, you are playing games with us.
And my WW goes on a date with a dude. Tonight. I hear it because my friends seen her. And you know what I said? LOL... she almost had me. I knew she was full of it.
You mean she almost had you back at MIL's place when the two of you were into all the games? She's better at it, than you are, and she always will be.
Hi Steve,
It's been another week! I see you're beginning to accept it's over and out of your control.
I hope you've made some progress in stopping the interactions with your wife as called out by Sandi. I mean, my ex-wife and I get along, and had to make decisions about our D's next school years, and managed <6min of talking. A typical week we spend <2 minutes talking. My ex-GF still sees her ex-inlaws. The rule is, if the in-laws want to see her, her ex is never at any events they invite her to. No Contact can be simple.
I hope you've made some progress in understanding she's not a good partner and the guy who slept with her is not a good friend, that even if they want/wanted you back, the answer should be no. I don't mean in a "sour grape" way because you can't have her, or because you fantasize about being the one to reject her. I mean really understanding what causes you to keep betrayers in your life and not let go. Continuing to love them is fine. Forgiveness is fine. The question is why you stay attached and open to a relationship.
I hope you've also made progress on realizing what you do control--your kids. If your ex is misbehaving with them, e.g. not sending them to school, or participating in illegal activities, you can stop that.
Anyway, my biggest hope is you're finding solo happiness this weekend. Cheers!
Hey guys,
I had a big setback, a big backslide: I am ready for the 2x4's
I deserve them. but it turned out okay I suppose. WW indicated in some small way she was open to being more than friends and became warm and fuzzy, very touchy and so on when I stopped by Monday to get the title for my truck from FIL (I bought FIL's old truck from him). He isnt available the days I am so I didnt have much of a choice. Anyways she told me she missed me and that we should hang out. So I figured wth, I got nothing to lose, I did the old Cory Wayne thing and invited her over for dinner, a bottle of wine, and so on. That was supposed to be yesterday. She also attempted to buy me a $300 wallet for no reason which I declined. Anyways I dont say anything during the week, I wait for friday.
I make my place spotless, I get a very nice wine, (I dont even like wine tbh) and her favorite desert. Everything is ready.
I call at noon to make sure she is still coming because I was going to pick up the crab and shrimp she loves after work, as per the plan for a week. Even the children knew that mom was going to go visit daddy on friday. (I knew there would be an excuse, a change of plans, a something in advance).
So I call at noon and ask if she is still coming. She said Yes! but I have to bring the kids, I said "thats not what I agreed on" she said "oh I also have to leave at 10, my friend has been begging me to go to the nightclub so I told her I can go at 10" lol. Just like Cory Wayne said (she changed the plans twice, this was to test my strength). So I just simply texted her later "I made this plan with you a week ago, the kids were not invited since it was a date, I didnt put time into a nice wine, dinner and desert to spend it with kids). She did respond for several hours... (couldnt im sure (no valid excuse since mom cant watch the kids to go to my place, but she can watch them to go to the club later that night? yeah.. sure) so I waited an hour and said "Hey you dont have to say anything, I understand, just forget it, have fun at the club"
that will be the very last time I make any attempt to spend time with her. Believe that. But at least I didnt let her change plans, accept it and blah blah. I said "no thanks, forget it" and went back to NC. Aint said a word since yesterday. And I wont. Yes big backslide I know I F'd up. Wont happen again.
Hi Steve, I don't see any big backslide, this is the step of your journey you've been stuck on for a while. To help you step forward, when you have a chance, consider my three questions above. Our journeys play out at different speeds--some faster, some slower, some stuck indefinitely. I do remember the phase you're at poignantly, a 2-week period where I said, "Please, I'll do anything. I'll let you stay rent-free forever. I'll fix everything in the house. I'll never argue with you again, I'll..." That wasn't, of course, the stronger me who reconciled or the strongest me who moved on. I see you testing that next step. Not accepting "anything". The beginning of acceptance. The occasional mention of a therapy group. I'm rooting for you. Steve, Steve, he's our man.. It will take inner work to move forward from this and situations like-this.
I haven’t been here in a while. And wow.
You actually have everything to lose.
Every time you say you won’t do it again and you do.
Your kids are witnessing this. They are going to end up for years in therapy with this dynamic.
This is on you now buddy. Nothing to do with her. What you allow is on you. This is the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Same thing every time.
Steve,
As Corey Wayne would tell you “come on man”. You have to stop letting her play your for a fool.
Steve,
I’m just curious. Let’s say your W came back and moved back in with you after your date.
Could you ever trust her again?
Would you feel proud to have her on your arm when you’re out socializing with your friends or spending time with family?
Are you truly willing to risk the mental health of your children because you can’t let your WW go? Dude they are so screwed.
Yeah I get that LH. I sort of knew it would be her testing me to see what she can get away with. Changing plans, adding stuff, usual Steve would have been like oh okay your grace bring the kids come eat my dinner and then go to the club later, anything for your presence my lady..
Yeah no. I was like, hey man I tried, you can’t accept how I wanted to do things I’m good. Let’s not even do it. And I most certainly will not be doing it again. I know she is surprised I cancelled on her. That is unlike me big time. But I didn’t do it for some 180 factor I did it because I literally won’t accept anything less that what I ask for. And I don’t really care how that seems to her. So whatever. Her loss dude It was gonna be a really nice evening.
Anyways I’m off that topic again, gave it a shot, waste of time. Back to the kids, I’m gonna try to take them to this dinosaur event in town it’s a drive through Jurassic park thing. I’ll take them to jumping at the trampoline park after school Monday. Putting my time into the ones that actually appreciate it. Work is good, finances good, so far I’m doing alright.
Yeah I considered that Thornton, it will be as LH says a long time from now only after major changes occur. There is no going back and fixing this right now or any time soon. Nothing can besides like God coming down from heaven and giving her an attitude adjustment will fix that. And yeah lol not happening. No time soon and probably not ever to be honest. I’m actually starting to look really forward to the days I can not think about her at all. It’s a lot easier than it was before. I’m shifting my focus back to myself, the kids and so on. The M isn’t even on my plate anymore. It wasn’t for awhile but I got sucked into this date thing and backslid. I got a $100 bottle of wine as a reminder on the fridge I didn’t open not to do that again. Anyways onwards I suppose.
As far as the kids, I can’t control thier mom. She’s lost it in every way. When I got the kids they have rules, they go to school, we do family things together. I’m solid for them. For now that’s what I got. Hopefully WW will get more tired of them and just give me full custody.
You gotta let her go man. She’s clearly a narcissist and that will NEVER change.
And Corey Wayne would spit his coffee out if someone told him you were trying to use his stuff to pick up your 6x cheating wife who is actively dating (6x that you know about. I bet there’s lots you don’t know about).
Dude this isn’t about re-attracting your wife. This is about you saving your own life and creating a path for your children to heal. Not one person here supports you getting back with your WW, what does that tell you? This is a marriage saving website, why would everyone here tell you to run? Truly, think about that.
Steve, please hear me. YOUR W IS SERIAL CHEATER. That will never change. Not with you, and not with the next poor bastard she manipulates into a relationship. She has a personality disorder man, the worst kind too.
Lastly, you need to find a way to NEVER go to your in-laws house again. Have your MIL or a friend drop them off or pick them up. I think you are using your in-laws as an excuse to peacock in front of your wife.
I hope and pray you can break free of this cycle of abuse.
100% what Thornton. She will NEVER be faithful to you! EVER!
Yeah I’ll admit I am not detached, I am not all set to move on yet. I’m a lot better than I was but I got a lot of work to go, not looking forward to the painful days ahead but, I’ll get through em. I have so far. Day by day inch by inch I’m slowly accepting this is life now.
That wasn't a backslide. That was a fall off the cliff. Steve_ now I know why you don't post more often, because you know we would have told you not to do what you planned to do. And I don't buy for a second you won't try again. You've said you're done more times than I can count.
You need to move on. You won't but you need to.
Steve,
I will be almost impossible for you to detach without no contact.
Picked up the kids after work. She answered the door so I could go Inside I said “sup” walked in packed my kids stuff, talked to my ILs about my MILs new heart medication. Did not say a word to WW, usually she goes into her room and calls me in there to talk, as me how I am doing, tells me to sit awhile not this time. Once I packed everything we needed for the week I poked my head in and said “see ya later” she was laying On the bed with some depressed look and said “bye”.
That is the least amount of talking I’ve ever managed to do in person with her ever. And I have to say it was actually a relief. I didn’t want to talk didn’t want to explain didn’t want to hear excuses. Just wanted to pick my kids up, I got some fun stuff planned for the day. I’m happy with how last night went.
Steve, only your exchanges look like this. Most have the kids sent out the door at the appointed time, if they couldn't manage to do the swap through an intermediary like school, daycare, etc.
I poked my head in and said “see ya later” she was laying On the bed with some depressed look and said “bye”.
You want to hear we've been there, but you're unusually attached to an unusually abusive partner. I hope the three questions I posed before rattle around in your head, even if you're not ready to engage them.
As far as the kids, I can’t control thier mom. When I got the kids they have rules, they go to school, we do family things together.
You can when her behaviors are negligent or abusive or dangerous towards the kids--such as not taking them to school or engaging in illegal professions. You've been reminded that a few times by myself and others who have successfully taken action. You've hopefully read Joseph's situation--since stripping away her parenting he's happier, his WW wants him, and he's dating someone wonderful. I know you are not ready to do this, I just didn't want to let "I can't" slide, when you find that strength you aspire to you will say "I can". That more powerful Steve would be happier--and more attractive to ladies, if you need that nudge!
Steve,
I find your recent update upsetting. IMO it shows everybody here what kind of person you really are and where your priorities lies..
So I figured wth, I got nothing to lose
You are right.. Self respect means zero to you..You have none.. and your WW has no respect for you so what did you have to lose ?
Even the children knew that mom was going to go visit daddy on friday.
Point proven - enough said.. Poor parenting and i'm reigning myself in when i only use these words. Thiking of yourself and not the children or what they must be thinking.
Selfish & Manipulative.. With two very messed up and selfish parents, i feel for the children..
(I knew there would be an excuse, a change of plans, a something in advance).
And yet your children knew "mom was going to visit daddy" - Was it you who told them ? Was this more manipulation on your part as you knew WW may not show up.... So you could guilt trip WW if she cancelled -
"oh the children will be disapointed, they know your are coming!""I made this plan with you a week ago, the kids were not invited since it was a date, I didnt put time into a nice wine, dinner and desert to spend it with kids).
Dad of the year comment there. You spend time and money sorting out your place for WW, who
1) - manuipulates you
2) - Cheats on you
3) - Ignores the children
4) - Uses You
5) - Is a nasty piece of work....
But then have the audacity to comment about not spending time with the kids.
Poor Poor Poor children.
Did it ever cross your mind about how your could have used that time / money spent on wine and desert etc with the children, you may actually appriciate it ? - Doubt it !
Yes big backslide I know I F'd up. Wont happen again.
It will - You are like the addict who's sole focus is the "fix"..
My focus on these sitchs is always kids kids kids...ALWAYS
You have the worse WW i have ever seen on this board... But at the same time, your actions are the most selfish i have seen from a LBS - You are so 1 sighted, you fail to see what everybody else does - You have 1 focus and everybody and everything else including your children are not considered when you act on emotions.
Re pickups.
You will ignore, but my arrangement is that the custodial parent drops off.. Never collects.
This reduces hanging around and the need to go into the WW house. I drop my children at WW's and never leave my car. I kiss them goodbye and drive. ZERO interaction with WW..
When she drops off at mine, she does get out of the car, she does walk them to the door, but i dont speak to her / see her. My boundary which i have never broken is that she never ever steps a foot into my house. It works well and there is no interaction.
I doubt you will enforce such a thing, as you will find an excuse not to.
WOw, Mr. B nailed it. Steve_, remember it was exactly a month ago that you came to the board saying you were done because of the events around Valentine's Day. Yet here you are a month later making romantic dinner plans with/for her?!?!
Yeah....that ain't done.
Forget her. Focus on your kids. When she has the kids focus on you.
And you need to simplify child exchanges. You going into the house, you popping your head into her room, all of that could work for a properly detached, father-focused, "I don't give a crap about her or what she is doing" LBH. You are none of those things.
Another update and no mention of IC. Still going? And if you are, it is time to assess if it is the right one. You need intensive and focused codependency counseling. And spare me the "I can't afford it" excuses, you just bought a truck!
..and a $100 bottle of wine! I can’t afford to drink at that price point, although I’ve never found a date unhappy with my old world vine selections or a blanco de blanc champagne for $30-$40.
$100 buys you one month of unlimited online therapy (multiple vendors).
Wow, so here are some truths.
You’re not being honest with us or yourself. You aren’t done. You’re not even close. You are unfortunately a broken record. You’re done til she shows you a little affection. You have absolutely zero self esteem or self respect and you know it, we know it, your friends know it, your in laws know it, your family knows it, your W knows it and worst of all your kids know it.
You have done absolutely nothing but show your kids time and time and time and time and time again this behavior is acceptable and forgivable at the drop of a hat.
Truth be told, I don’t think you really care if she cheats on you as long as she doesn’t show boat about it and comes home to you.
You take one step forward, show some hope, and than turn around and just blow it all up. It’s...exhausting to read I can’t imagine living like you.
You aren’t in IC, that’s fairly obvious.
Detaching is very hard when you are trying. You are not trying so it’s impossible.
Stop going to the in-laws. If your mil wants to cut hair than have her come to your place. Do pick up and drop offs in public. You’ve been told this time and time and time again yet never listen.
You really need to sit down and be honest with us. What exactly do you want from this forum?
You say you focus on your kids but are broke and can’t do things with them and than turn around and spend $100 on one bottle of wine....wow.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You’re not being a good father. You’re allowing them to see and participate in full fledge mental and emotional abuse without a care in the world.
You can continue to ignore us all and do it your way, it won’t lead to anything but misery and pain, but hey it’s your life.
Oh how we all want to help you! We aren't just sitting here to pick out your faults and throw them in your face. We are trying to shine the light on the parts that make you stumble and fall. You know when you've backslid, but you are so addicted to her, you seem to have zero will power. So, we're here trying to tell you how to avoid some pitfalls, and how to overcome some temptations.
WW indicated in some small way she was open to being more than friends and became warm and fuzzy, very touchy and so on when I stopped by Monday to get the title for my truck from FIL (I bought FIL's old truck from him).
This is all a game she plays. She works you like putty in her hand. If you don't respond to one way, she'll try another way to get to you. You know this is true, based on things you'll say after the fact. When she says she misses you, she's really saying she is bored at the moment. Bear that in mind next time, or would it not matter to you?
My concern about you is that you are ready & willing to take her back in a twinkling of an eye, in spite of knowing she is not being authentic or consistent in her words and behaviors. It seems all you do is think about "getting her back", and to blazes with the consequences! When you say she will have to change, you are playing games with us.....and maybe yourself. Why do I say this? B/c of your repeated actions of breaking your neck to get to her whenever she crooks her finger.
BTW, how is therapy coming?
Anyways she told me she missed me and that we should hang out. So I figured wth, I got nothing to lose,
Seriously???? You can't think of anything negative that might come from a night of dining and wining her? This is why I said in my previous post that you are just as guilty at playing games as she is.
You are ready to throw away any ground you may have gained, and let her destroy you even more. Every time you do this, it sends you back to square one. You have to start all over with detaching, etc.
(I knew there would be an excuse, a change of plans, a something in advance).
Then explain to me why you did it? You don't have to explain her to me, but what does it say about you as a man?
Aint said a word since yesterday.
When you can go the first
four weeks straight, without a peep with her, then brag about NC, okay? Four weeks is just a
start. Here' something I want you to understand. This business of going NC for a day here, or a day there means nothing more than you stewing in anger. When the anger passes, then you're ready to talk to her again. You're doing nothing but playing the silent game with her. Get serious and stop playing games.
Yeah. I knew I had 2x4’s coming. I expected them. I deserved them. I was not being honest mostly with myself. I absolutely continued to try to nice her back. It was actually because the reason she said she loved me is because I was so “nice to her” well.. yeah didn’t get me far. As far as the finances go I did go a bit out of my way to impress WW. But Regsrdless of what you may think I do much more for my kids. The last two days I took them to a dinosaur event, to the lake fishing and today I pulled out our old Traxxas RC trucks fixed them and showed my son how to drive them. They had a blast. I was financially hurting when I first separated, now I’m not as much. Far as the truck goes, I had been paying on it and just paid it off. It’s a 2011, not new. I know it seems like I am playing games with you guys, not hearing you, not understand you and that is not the case. I am a simple guy who was really dedicated to my marriage and family. I suppose I thought I could out-love this whole crazy life she has going on. I cant, I know. Gods honest truth is I haven’t said jack squat since she didn’t show up on Friday. I know sandi that isn’t much, and yes it was anger for the first 2-3 days. Now it’s just disappointment, and not even In her, I know her she wasn’t ever going to come and fulfill my fantasy of wonderful reconciliation. I’m disappointed in myself for even giving in to my fantasy.
It seems her and I are similar, she is off living a fantasy life where there are no consequences for destroying your family, because I allow that. And I am doing the same thing destroying my kids by doing nothing to stop myself from coming undone.
It seems so far the Only things I do correct are work my shifts, take care of my patients and try to keep my kids happy but disciplined as well. As far as being a man other than that I have been failing hard. It’s due to a fear of loss. I have been doing IC but it’s very neutral. I am going to stop doing it, the therapist is very “go with the flow, what makes you happy” actually supported the dinner idea. Yeah I see how bad that was now. Not every therapist is created equal and certainly I didn’t listen to you all. I’ll admit I didn’t post here before because I knew you guys would say no. I had some hope she would see what everyone else seems to see but she won’t. Her fog is thick. And apparently so is mine.
I have spent the last 5 days since my major backslide talking to friends, spending time with the kids, and working on nee diet foods. I actually have tried to distract myself as much as I humanly can. My friends at work shake their head when I tell them what I’ve done. I get it, I F’d up. And Until I grow the balls to walk away from this dumpster fire I’ll stay part of the burning trash. It is hard to cut out someone you love so much and I know 5 days isn’t squat but for me it’s actually been the longest period since BD I haven’t attempted any games to nice her or anything. I’m starting to feel like this is getting real, it’s happening, and I don’t want to fight it anymore. At this point I am exhausted of screwing up and I just want to do nothing. I think about my M a lot, I am depressed yes, but for once, I actually stopped believing there is anything In this world I can do to change this.
I’ll save an update until I’ve gone 2 weeks with no unnecessary contact, no attempts to nice her. Actual progress, I do not want to keep posting up a journal of failure for y’all to keep reading and being disappointed. I will have 2 good weeks, I am almost 1/2 there. Then I will post it. And go from there. Time to just rip the band aid off. Tried everything else at this point. Wish me luck.
It’s very difficult. I hope you stick to your guns this time. It will get easier in time.
Don’t give up and I really hope you don’t go 2 weeks without updating. You don’t need some earth shattering thing to tell us. Tell us what you did with your day. Tell us more about what you did with your kids. Be more detailed with those activities. Don’t gloss over them and don’t stop posting.
Tell us what you are looking for in a therapist.
Just journaling what you did with your day when you start to think of her will help take the focus off her and keep it on yourself and kids. And stop hiding stuff because you don’t wanna hear it.
You’d be surprised how often spouses wanna come back when you become calm cool collected and detached. It’s just you’d be surprised how often the LBS just doesn’t wanna go back to the marriage anymore because of how happy they’ve become.
I have been doing IC but it’s very neutral. I am going to stop doing it, the therapist is very “go with the flow, what makes you happy” actually supported the dinner idea. Yeah I see how bad that was now. Not every therapist is created equal and certainly I didn’t listen to you all. I’ll admit I didn’t post here before because I knew you guys would say no. I had some hope she would see what everyone else seems to see but she won’t. Her fog is thick. And apparently so is mine.
Independent counseling is what you need at this time. Marriage counseling or couples counseling would not help right now. If the current IC actually went with the wine & dine idea.......find another IC. You need help/guidance in how to work on your fear. There's not much you can do to work on the MR until you fix the inside of Steve.
When you know 2x4's are coming........do you block them out? I'm glad you at least admitted you didn't post first b/c you knew we'd say no. Yet, you went with the wine & dine fantasy anyway. I find it interesting how you call it a fantasy. That's how most WW's get involved with someone outside the M. Some women can even have an EA with a fictional character. If you recognize it was more fantasy than reality to have the date with your WW, then think about how you will handle it the next time. Have a plan, Steve. Don't fly by the seat of your pants. We've been telling you for months that she is not going to wake up or come to her senses over night. With whatever extra mental issues that plaque her, it will take more time and she will need to be under a doctor's care, IMHO. At the very least, she needs to get a diagnosis, but that won't be enough if she doesn't treat the problem.
I suppose I thought I could out-love this whole crazy life she has going on. I cant, I know. Gods honest truth is I haven’t said jack squat since she didn’t show up on Friday. I know sandi that isn’t much, and yes it was anger for the first 2-3 days.
To "out love" sounds like something that might be said in a church group setting, and some people have the ability to quietly sit on the sidelines, waiting for a long time, trying to out love their spouse's waywardness. Here's the thing, Steve. Her waywardness and whatever else is going on with her has nothing to do with your ability to love her
more or love her
longer than her waywardness & mental/emotional issues. Even if it were, you would still need to back off, give her space, go NC, GAL, 180, etc., etc. You'd still be separated, and if not.......then you are still at her mercy. That's how you look to me. Completely at her mercy to twist you up & over & around again.
Let me ask you something. If you can't out love it, what do you have left? What is the one thing I preach to you H's who have a WW? RESPECT! Respect yourself. Start there, and forget about dating her, playing cards with her at the in-laws, sneaking in a chat here & there. She will know immediately when you truly start respecting yourself.
Don't say anything to her about your respect, or how you plan to show self respect, etc. I get so sick of LBH's taking what we tell
them to do and they run tell their WW. Sorry, but telling
her has no effect. She has to see it in action!
It is hard to cut out someone you love so much and I know 5 days isn’t squat but for me it’s actually been the longest period since BD
You drown out the positive words of hope these other men have been telling you, by staying focused on how difficult it is, and how much you love her, yada, yada, yada. Okay, it's the hardest thing you've ever had to do. You don't
want to do it. We get it. But just as we have to teach our children how they will encounter hard things to do in life, they must focus on what's the "right thing to do". How do you, Steve, determine what is the right thing to do in other situations?
I’ll save an update until I’ve gone 2 weeks with no unnecessary contact, no attempts to nice her.
Do you remember my recent thread where I asked people not to wait until they had an "update" to post? This board is going to die out if people stop posting. Do you see Cadet posting updates in his life, or Another Stander, or me? You are missing the point. Talk about something else. Talk about what you are reading, or working on. At least post on other threads of newcomers. You can certainly identify with them, and warn them of things that wasn't successful for you. Reading other threads can sometime help you see your own sitch more clearly.
Yeah. I knew I had 2x4’s coming. I expected them. I deserved them. I was not being honest mostly with myself. I absolutely continued to try to nice her back. It was actually because the reason she said she loved me is because I was so “nice to her” well.. yeah didn’t get me far. As far as the finances go I did go a bit out of my way to impress WW. But Regsrdless of what you may think I do much more for my kids. The last two days I took them to a dinosaur event, to the lake fishing and today I pulled out our old Traxxas RC trucks fixed them and showed my son how to drive them. They had a blast. I was financially hurting when I first separated, now I’m not as much. Far as the truck goes, I had been paying on it and just paid it off. It’s a 2011, not new. I know it seems like I am playing games with you guys, not hearing you, not understand you and that is not the case. I am a simple guy who was really dedicated to my marriage and family. I suppose I thought I could out-love this whole crazy life she has going on. I cant, I know. Gods honest truth is I haven’t said jack squat since she didn’t show up on Friday. I know sandi that isn’t much, and yes it was anger for the first 2-3 days. Now it’s just disappointment, and not even In her, I know her she wasn’t ever going to come and fulfill my fantasy of wonderful reconciliation. I’m disappointed in myself for even giving in to my fantasy.
It seems her and I are similar, she is off living a fantasy life where there are no consequences for destroying your family, because I allow that. And I am doing the same thing destroying my kids by doing nothing to stop myself from coming undone.
It seems so far the Only things I do correct are work my shifts, take care of my patients and try to keep my kids happy but disciplined as well. As far as being a man other than that I have been failing hard. It’s due to a fear of loss. I have been doing IC but it’s very neutral. I am going to stop doing it, the therapist is very “go with the flow, what makes you happy” actually supported the dinner idea. Yeah I see how bad that was now. Not every therapist is created equal and certainly I didn’t listen to you all. I’ll admit I didn’t post here before because I knew you guys would say no. I had some hope she would see what everyone else seems to see but she won’t. Her fog is thick. And apparently so is mine.
I have spent the last 5 days since my major backslide talking to friends, spending time with the kids, and working on nee diet foods. I actually have tried to distract myself as much as I humanly can. My friends at work shake their head when I tell them what I’ve done. I get it, I F’d up. And Until I grow the balls to walk away from this dumpster fire I’ll stay part of the burning trash. It is hard to cut out someone you love so much and I know 5 days isn’t squat but for me it’s actually been the longest period since BD I haven’t attempted any games to nice her or anything. I’m starting to feel like this is getting real, it’s happening, and I don’t want to fight it anymore. At this point I am exhausted of screwing up and I just want to do nothing. I think about my M a lot, I am depressed yes, but for once, I actually stopped believing there is anything In this world I can do to change this.
I’ll save an update until I’ve gone 2 weeks with no unnecessary contact, no attempts to nice her. Actual progress, I do not want to keep posting up a journal of failure for y’all to keep reading and being disappointed. I will have 2 good weeks, I am almost 1/2 there. Then I will post it. And go from there. Time to just rip the band aid off. Tried everything else at this point. Wish me luck.
Steve_ one of the reasons I still post here is because I truly feel for the LBS going through these situations. Most of them were decent human-beings, though flawed, going about their daily lives thinking they were with someone that loved and cared about them as much as they did. I see very few LBSs here that were as terrible of a spouse as I was. I feel that I got what I deserved in both of my past sitches, and actually not even close to what I really deserved. Most Ws would have left a husband like me for good and not looked back. So when I see LBSs like you that were doing 90% of the right things, and just have a terrible spouse they've chosen, I feel for them. I want to help them. I want them to look ahead to an awesome life and go live it.
So the only disappointment I have is that you allow yourself to keep getting kicked where it counts. You are a good guy, doing what you thought was best for you, your kids, and your MR. The problem is not you Steve_, and this is what we all have been trying to show you. You could become the greatest catch in the history of men, and this women is incapable of being a faithful, loving spouse for you. Your love and desire to do good blinds you to that fact. Because you are a good guy and she takes advantage of that.
It reminds me of a good friend of mine I grew up with. In the 90s he met this beautiful, younger woman. She was 19 I believe, and she looked like Leeza Gibbons. He was head over heels for her. He was gainfully employed, making really good money, and he won her over by spoiling her. When I was around them I got the impression it was a very one-sided relationship. She liked the attention, the money, the cars, the house. I had a bad feeling my friend was in for future heartbreak, and sure enough a few months in she broke up with him. He was devastated. 4 weeks into the breakup she called him to tell him that she was 6 weeks pregnant. My friend was thrilled. They were getting back together to raise the baby. I tried to talk some sense into him, that he could coparent to raise the baby with her without being with her. But his mind was made up, and they got engaged.
I went to the wedding. Here was the 20 year-old girl, and this 25 year-old man. He was very serious and wanted to commit his life to this girl. The girl? She was giggling, outright laughing, through the whole ceremony. It was as if it were all a big joke to her. It lasted less than 2 years. He found out she was talking to other guys, he blew up and got physical with her (a side of him I had never seen). When her dad came over to protect her, my friend beat her dad up (he was one of the physically toughest guys I ever knew). She left and never came back. They coparented, he ended up getting every other weekend with his daughter. We remained fairly close for a few more years after, but he never recovered, was sad, and I knew that he would take her back in a heartbeat, even though she ended up remarrying.
I think about stories like that when I see situations like yours. I wonder if you were honest with yourself how serious she ever really was about your marriage and your family. Or was she just a girl playing house, but wanting to live her own life too?
Steve_, please do not give up on IC altogether. Find another IC that is better suited, one that can help with codependency issues. And please keep posting here. We are here for you. Yes you get 2x4s, but it isn't all 2x4s! We want to support you and help into the next chapter of your life!
I have been failing hard. It’s due to a fear of loss.
I’m starting to feel like this is getting real, it’s happening, and I don’t want to fight it anymore.
These 2 lines in your last post stuck out to me...
1) There should be no fear of loss when it comes to her, Steve. You have nothing to lose. She's gone. It's over. The fear of loss you should be worrying about is the loss of your children's respect...
2) That's because it is real, Steve. It is happening. She's gone. It's over. There is nothing left to fight for except your self respect and dignity...
Bootstraps, my man. You gotta pick yourself up and go. Wallowing around in it isn't doing you any good. PMA and GAL. It's time to be the man you were meant to be and salvage this $hitshow so you and your kids can have a happy future. WW ain't a part of it. So get that nonsense out of your mind and move forward...
Don't stop posting. Come here everyday and share something with us. Your track record shows you really screw up when you go AWOL for several days. If you think about reaching out to her, come here instead. She reaches out to you, you come here before you even consider responding. You can do this, but you need to do better. And we all know you can...
The IC was with a LMFT (Licensed marriage and family therapist) Yeah I need psychotherapy not an LMFT. So Im gonna ask the VA to switch providers.
I honestly have a plan going forward that I think will work for me. I am going to just distance myself as much as I can, be there 100% for my kids, and when she asks for anything else just politely and respectfully decline. No anger, no games, no manipulation no trying to solicit any "feelings". Just time and distance and being steady and not bouncing around her emotional games. I want to be a Steve who is not gonna be pissed one day or a push over the next. Honestly things have been a lot easier and this distance has grown greater since I haven't been talking to her or doing anything to "fix things." Im gonna take my day off tomrrow and go fishing up in the hills after I get my truck registration and so on taken care of. I really need to stop worrying about eveyone else and find some inner peace.
I feel like the best option I got right now is to stop doing anything and just worry about myself and my kids. I do realize at this point there really is nothing I havent tried and none of it worked. Its not even about DBing for me now, its just about not going underwater and getting to a place I can just be happy with being alone. That's what I'm gonna work on right now.
I do realize at this point there really is nothing I havent tried and none of it worked.
uuuummmm. You haven't tried DBing.
Fair enough LH. I’m assuming by DBing it would be the LRT from the books. ?
Yep. Also look at Sandi's 37 rules.
Just know Steve there is absolutely nothing you can do to change her mind.
I’m afraid there is absolutely nothing at all you can possibly do. You would need to change the core of who she is for any thing to change. Nobody can change the core of the person she is.
[quote=Steve_]The problem is not you Steve_, and this is what we all have been trying to show you. You could become the greatest catch in the history of men, and this women is incapable of being a faithful, loving spouse for you.
Completely agree with this except I'll take it one step further. This woman isn't capable of being faithful to anyone. She would cheat on George Clooney if they were dating.
I want to be a Steve who is not gonna be pissed one day or a push over the next.
I love that you have this insight about yourself. You are either at one extreme or the other. So now that you recognize this what are you going to do to change it?
I'd also take your signature and change it from:
"She doesnt want to Recon "yet""
To:
"She has shown no indication of ever Reconning"
I think you are still waiting for her to magically wake up one day. It isn't going to happen.
I think it should read:
No sane person should ever date my W. Recon would be EXTREMELY foolish.
No sane person should ever date my W. Recon would be EXTREMELY foolish.
<3 THIS needs to go on the DB Quotes page!
I honestly have a plan going forward that I think will work for me. I am going to just distance myself as much as I can, be there 100% for my kids, and when she asks for anything else just politely and respectfully decline. No anger, no games, no manipulation no trying to solicit any "feelings". Just time and distance and being steady and not bouncing around her emotional games.
That is a good plan. Now, break it down. Decide how you will distance yourself. For example, not going to your in-laws house if she's there, would be a good step. Not responding to her texts when it's not about the kids, could be another step. She's going to pester you until she either gets mad or bored with you not responding. Whatever she feels about it is of no importance to you. She has to
learn the hard way that you won't fall for her tricks.....including using the kids as a portal to have a conversation about the two of you.
Know what another good step to the plan would be? Coming to the board
before you react/respond to anything concerning your WW. Give us time to talk you down from the ledge before you leap into another dark hole.
I want to be a Steve who is not gonna be pissed one day or a push over the next. Honestly things have been a lot easier and this distance has grown greater since I haven't been talking to her or doing anything to "fix things." Im gonna take my day off tomrrow and go fishing up in the hills after I get my truck registration and so on taken care of. I really need to stop worrying about eveyone else and find some inner peace.
Sounds good. I don't know if you've always had a problem with impulsiveness, but you may want to think ahead with a strategy, whenever you have those overpowering moments to believe something your W says. What can you do to bring yourself from 100 % sky rocketing emotions, back to earth where you can
think calmly & rationally? Perhaps it's not impulsiveness, but it's something that causes you to rush right back to her while tossing everything else out the window. I think you are beginning to see, if you can get a grip on reacting to emotions. Even if you feel a certain way, you don't have to respond. Know what I mean?
I feel like the best option I got right now is to stop doing anything and just worry about myself and my kids.
Absolutely!
((hugs))
So a bit of an update.
Ive been doing really well with pulling back and detatching a little more each day. Not there yet, I am still battling the lonliness and depression but a little less. I am doing very good with the GAL as well. Ive spent most of my time with my kids rebuilding RC cars and driving them around places and taking them to the lake and fishing things like that. I posted a snap chat of a RC truck I thought was awesome with a caption like "dude this is so cool, my next one some day, wishlist" it was a traxxas maxx truck I got the smaller 30mph ones now the kids love them and I got lots of friends following us and interested in it. They are really fun to do anywhere and fun to teach the kids to maintain them and so on. Well WW gets the snap off her sisters phone and buys me a $550 truck that does like 60mph... I didnt even know what to think about that.... I told her sister to tell her thank you, and me and the kids will have a blast with it.
I dropped the kids off and stayed in my truck the last time. WW did message me to say she is very happy with how I have been doing those outdoor hobbies and things with the kids. I told her "thank you, yeah its pretty fun" and that was that.
Im going to pick them up after work today. I got some parts to fix our second truck and I plan on taking them up into the mountains and try to find some snow to play in with the RC cars tomorrow. The charger can be used on my truck so we can head up there and go fishing and driving the trucks and stuff all day and the kids really enjoy it.
WW went and got lip injections, yeah she looks rediculous. One thing about her is her beauty, she was a 10. but that just looks tacky and messed up. She is trying so hard to go to the extreme and be nothing like the mom and wife she was, "trapped" into being. She is living a whole different life, everything she is doing the new car, the lips, boobs, new friends and work its all some fake life..crazy part is that she thinks she is okay, but its truly insane. I just sit back and shake my head, what a mess.
Something I have been interested in working on is understanding relationships better. Something I read with Cory Wayne and also with Tony Robbins was about the masiculine vs feminine energy and sexual polarity. I realize that our relationship was very off-base. My WW is a control freak, she has to be in charge of things, she has to know everything, she hates surprises and if you just come up with spontaneous plans she will most likely be put-off. I am more of a very laid back easy going type of guy. My problem is I was raised by my single mom and didnt have much of a masculine role model.
I am of the mind that the reason my wife loves me is that I have that soft, nice guy, more easy going and compassionate side. And it makes her feel good and loved and all that. But what was missing is the attraction. And if I was more in the feminine role and she was more in the masculine its only a matter of time until that dynamic breaks down. I was doing all the child rearing, cleaning, working, etc. She was simply existing in the M and doing pretty much nothing but hanging out and being spoiled. I sort of believe this (NOT AN EXCUSE) but was a symptom of why she went outside the M for affairs. Losing attraction over time. But couldnt leave me and the safety of her M. Until the last OM showed up who seemed so nice and caring and everything I was but with more money and he was shiny and new. Then he wanted her to stay home, to cook, to clean to watch his 3 kids and our two kids. That didnt work for her and she began to argue with him, stonewall, bicker about the kids, get frustrated and resentful toward him. In the end she still sees him as a good person and thinks thier only issue was the kids but no not really.
I feel like in the next relationship I need to take a handfull of both of these things. I will still love and support and be very compassionate, but Im going to also not be afraid to ask things of my partner, say what I want in a loving way, and expect them to put in the work that I do. I dont need to be 1000% masculine constantly thats just not me. But I definately cannot be in the feminine energy all the time. yes girls love a sweet sensitive caring man, but he becomes unattractive and boring over time. In line with the NMMG stuff. I guess its observations I think I saw in our R. Thought id share them.
Steve, good update.
One question, did you ever follow up on the new IC? I think you would benefit greatly from a good IC that is interested in getting you in to a better headspace.
I did, but its gonna take time to swap over. The VA is that way. Its for Psycho therapy this time not an LMFT. Although I do have 3 LMFT's that I see at work and talk to about my situation. They are very pro-detatchment and push me to cut her off asap. The VA one was more of a "save the M" kinda lady. As far as resources go i got the DB and DR books, I got good friends and collegues and lots of support. I just was not able to really see my own value until recently. And I still struggle with it. But each day I get better.
Steve,
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying but you can read a million different books but until you get your codependency under control it won’t matter.
Yes your STBXW lost attraction for you but she cheats because she’s a tramp. Until she seeks professional help that will NEVER change.
Steve, I wrote to you months ago. And said you needed to get into IC and that you would likely backtrack and roll over for your trash wife over and over.
That’s exactly what you’ve done... so I’ve stayed out of it, because frankly reading your posts has made my stomach turn.
But I’ve re-entered the fray because I see glimmers of hope.... Don’t disappoint me! Perhaps you’re starting to join the dots.
Get yourself into IC now. Don’t delay or make excuses. YOU HAVE THE CONTROL, right now, to hitch up your pants and get your **** in a pile. Your co-dependency is actually to blame for this terrible situation.
And BTW, she’s complete, manipulative trash - the worst I’ve ever read of on this site.
You can do so much better. Are you up to the challenge?
Many times on these boards a walk away wife loses some attraction over the years.
Your WAW is like none we have seen before. She is exactly what LH called her. A tramp. Actually, that’s being nice. She is a sick manipulative individual and it has nothing to do with losing attraction to you. You could be ANYONE and this would play out the same way. It really has nothing to do with you, except the fact it just keeps going on because you just keep letting it happen.
What YOU need to work on in IC is why you have let this go on for so long and why you keep falling for absolutely disgustingness. Because the same type of women are going to prey on you and you’ll fall hook line and sinker if you don’t fix your own issues independent of her.
No one and I mean no one should date your wife let alone marry her. She’s a sicko. And her parents quite honestly seem to enable her. Everyone seems to enable her sick manipulative behavior.
BTW, what does she do for a living that she can afford such expensive stuff? I’m curious. Collagen injections aren’t cheap. These expensive gifts she wants to buy you aren’t cheap. She’s a big spender. Where does she get this money? Is it her new illegal job?
Good to hear from you. I think it's good that you are beginning to see some of these things and how it affects the man-woman relationship.
You’ve got this Steve. Everyone here is behind you!
Do you have what it takes?
I dropped the kids off and stayed in my truck the last time. WW did message me to say she is very happy with how I have been doing those outdoor hobbies and things with the kids. I told her "thank you, yeah its pretty fun" and that was that.
This is really a great step, Steve. May I suggest that you practice using only couple of words when you feel you must reply? For example, rather than saying "thank you, etc.".......just type TY. That's all you need to say. Also, try sending emojoies, rather than words. For example, you could have just sent a
and said nothing else. The less words you use, the better.
My WW is a control freak, she has to be in charge of things, she has to know everything, she hates surprises and if you just come up with spontaneous plans she will most likely be put-off.
This is why she wants in your business all the time. Although she doesn't want to be married and settle down and be a family again, she wants the control in your life. I think you need to bear that in mind every time she throws a bread crumb in your direction.
I am more of a very laid back easy going type of guy. My problem is I was raised by my single mom and didnt have much of a masculine role model.
The two opposite personalities in you and WW are not uncommon at all. As for as you not having much of a masculine role model growing up, I'll pass along something the men on the board use to tell one a few years ago. They suggested they find a man they really respected/admired and could learn from this man by studying how he approached situations and how he handled problems. How did this man command respect? The man could even be fictional. However, if you have someone in real life, I would suggest you try that first.
I am of the mind that the reason my wife loves me is that I have that soft, nice guy, more easy going and compassionate side. And it makes her feel good and loved and all that. But what was missing is the attraction. And if I was more in the feminine role and she was more in the masculine its only a matter of time until that dynamic breaks down. I was doing all the child rearing, cleaning, working, etc. She was simply existing in the M and doing pretty much nothing but hanging out and being spoiled.
Can I get an amen from the choir! I have posted many times about this very situation. I have yet to see this dynamic prove successful when it comes down to keeping the attraction alive. You cannot do everything and leave her with no work/responsibilities. She will get lazy & bored. You cannot spoil her in this way. It will only kill her attraction for you. There are two adults in this relationship, and each one should have equal responsibilities. In a heterosexual relationship, a woman doesn't want to be married to another woman. She wants a man.
I guess its observations I think I saw in our R. Thought id share them.
Very good. Thanks for sharing, Steve.
Steve,
This quote made me think of you.
“When it comes to all types of relationships, setting and enforcing healthy boundaries is essential to maintaining mutual respect and admiration. If you allow people to treat you like a doormat without standing up for yourself, you invite more of this disrespectful behavior from people who are already abusing you and those who witness your abuse. The strongest negotiating position is being able to walk away and mean it, and therefore, sometimes you have to walk away from people and circumstances that steal your peace and no longer serve you. The wrong people whose goals and values are not aligned with your own will let you go, and those who took you for granted will be remorseful, apologize and treat you like you deserve to be treated. You don’t get what you deserve in life, only what you negotiate.” ~ Coach Corey Wayne
Something I have been interested in working on is understanding relationships better. Something I read with Cory Wayne and also with Tony Robbins was about the masiculine vs feminine energy and sexual polarity. I realize that our relationship was very off-base. My WW is a control freak, she has to be in charge of things, she has to know everything, she hates surprises and if you just come up with spontaneous plans she will most likely be put-off. I am more of a very laid back easy going type of guy. My problem is I was raised by my single mom and didnt have much of a masculine role model.
I am of the mind that the reason my wife loves me is that I have that soft, nice guy, more easy going and compassionate side. And it makes her feel good and loved and all that. But what was missing is the attraction. And if I was more in the feminine role and she was more in the masculine its only a matter of time until that dynamic breaks down. I was doing all the child rearing, cleaning, working, etc. She was simply existing in the M and doing pretty much nothing but hanging out and being spoiled. I sort of believe this (NOT AN EXCUSE) but was a symptom of why she went outside the M for affairs. Losing attraction over time. But couldnt leave me and the safety of her M. Until the last OM showed up who seemed so nice and caring and everything I was but with more money and he was shiny and new. Then he wanted her to stay home, to cook, to clean to watch his 3 kids and our two kids. That didnt work for her and she began to argue with him, stonewall, bicker about the kids, get frustrated and resentful toward him. In the end she still sees him as a good person and thinks thier only issue was the kids but no not really.
I feel like in the next relationship I need to take a handfull of both of these things. I will still love and support and be very compassionate, but Im going to also not be afraid to ask things of my partner, say what I want in a loving way, and expect them to put in the work that I do. I dont need to be 1000% masculine constantly thats just not me. But I definately cannot be in the feminine energy all the time. yes girls love a sweet sensitive caring man, but he becomes unattractive and boring over time. In line with the NMMG stuff. I guess its observations I think I saw in our R. Thought id share them.
Tony Robbins has had several women, not woman, WOMEN accuse him of sexual misconduct. Even more accused him of blatant misogyny. So I strongly, strongly suggest you look else where for relationship advice. Particularly anything involving gender dynamics. Albeit archaic, and I don't recommend you dump any energy into it at all, if you feel you must please pay attention to who you're listening to. There are plenty of old fashioned folks out there not running around trying to coerce or berate women. I'm not a huge fan of that Texan TV Doctor, he and I don't agree on much, but he loves his wife, and as far as I can tell he doesn't actually hate women. He seems to respect them. There are plenty of others like him.
While I respect other's who choose to have a gendered relationship dynamic in heteronormative relationships that is not what all women look for. I do not choose overtly masculine "alpha" men because they will not tolerate me, or me asserting my will, my power, my sexuality or my opinion. I can't have that. I won't have that for me and I refuse to see my girls raised in a relationship like that. I will never defer to man just because. I will never live subserviently for any other reason than I know my partner will do the same out of love. There is a line between being a self-possessed man and being a jerk. I've met very few men who consider themselves self-possessed and masculine who are not complete a-holes. Gender roles are a construct and a massive crutch for couples who refuse to be in a partnership with their spouse. Even the Bible quote people like to point out in it's whole context isn't about a wife becoming completely submissive to her husband it asks that both the husband and the wife defer to each other. To love and put each other before everyone but god. No one needs to be deferential in a relationship based on their reproductive organs. People should willingly participate in their marriage and family in equal parts because they are part of something not because their role has been dictated by pseudoscience or societal constructs.
I will however agree man or woman (because I was married to the male version of this in my first MR) as one spouse continues to agree to more and more and more of weight of the household and marriage (or simply just takes it on because they've been left with no other option) a narcist will let you have it and the blame you for not keep up with yourself or them. My 1st H was mentally ill, and addict an a complete narcissist. I was expected to do all the cooking, cleaning, child rearing, work in our relationship, and to bring home at least 1/2 the income. Nothing was ever enough. I'm saying this because Steve you need to understand what happened in your MR had nothing to do with you or your gender roles. What happened was because your stbxw is a dumpster fire of a human being. And people like that spend an awful lot of time convincing their partners they're the problem. They will chip away at you and your self-worth over the course of years until there's only a shell of you left, and then tell you you aren't the person they fell in love with when they feel like they are done with you. Ginger has this summed up for you perfectly. Read that and re-read that every time you start to think this mess was some how all on you.
Last and probably most important note, asking for what you want and need in a relationship is called emotional maturity not masculinity.
Steve,
This quote made me think of you.
“When it comes to all types of relationships, setting and enforcing healthy boundaries is essential to maintaining mutual respect and admiration. If you allow people to treat you like a doormat without standing up for yourself, you invite more of this disrespectful behavior from people who are already abusing you and those who witness your abuse. The strongest negotiating position is being able to walk away and mean it, and therefore, sometimes you have to walk away from people and circumstances that steal your peace and no longer serve you. The wrong people whose goals and values are not aligned with your own will let you go, and those who took you for granted will be remorseful, apologize and treat you like you deserve to be treated. You don’t get what you deserve in life, only what you negotiate.” ~ Coach Corey Wayne
This is so on point!!
Even the Bible quote people like to point out in it's whole context isn't about a wife becoming completely submissive to her husband it asks that both the husband and the wife defer to each other.
The sermon we read at my wedding had to do with this. The husband is the roof who protects the wife and shelters her, but the wife is the base upon which the roof is supported. Our priest really put it into a great perspective for today.
As far as gender roles being a social construct, I take that to mean that gender roles are an idea that has been created and accepted by society. I don't see that as good or bad in itself. I do think that those gender roles exist because, in science we have learned that form follows function. And to me that sounds so much like the roof and the foundation both contributing to a mutually beneficial relationship.
I can see the majority of women not wanting a stay at home man and I have no way of proving that. I don't think you undo thousands of years of evolution this quickly if at all. I think the term "masculine" has more than a touch of stigma right now and we are all better served by detaching and thinking logically about our issues. However I don't think these are the real issues here. The real issue is someone who could do all the things his W has done and a person who would keep taking her back both have issues they need to tackle.
I could go on for days about women in the work force, the construct of gender and gender roles. I can give you anecdotal information about the stay at home dads I know and the very happy marriages and lives they have. I could talk about the false narrative most people have been fed regarding hunter/gather society and how paleo-anarchal societies are far more egalitarian and non-monogamous than they were taught as children. But it's irrelevant because like trying to gender marriage problems it's pointless. Relationship dynamics are rarely influenced by gender roles and are far more influenced by the issues of the people in them like communication, caretaking work load, mental illness, trauma, personal history, etc.
Bad people do bad things because they are bad people not because their spouse was too feminine or masculine. Good people make a series of mistakes because for any number of reasons they become self focused and lack empathy, not because their spouse treated them too well. People in crisis behave irrationally and do completely illogical things regardless of reproductive organs.
No one should waste their time feeding into gender dynamics when they could be doing a lot more work on themselves. And in particular Steve should not feed into gender roles being the crux of the problems in the MR when we can all see the the biggest issue is the stbxw. Just as a whole. She's a walking red flag of a human person. She was the problem. She is the problem. And all the Monday morning quarterbacking in the world trying to deconstruct the MR to find what went wrong will not help moving forward and beyond the chaos here. DBing and whole lot of IC is the only path here.
Short note. Not sure if it’s common knowledge but native Americans were way ahead of us on gender.
“ Before point of contact with European colonizers, it is thought that all indigenous societies in North America recognized five distinct genders amongst their people: Male, female, transgender, Two Spirit female, and Two Spirit male.”
“ The ability to look at the world from the perspectives of both the male and female spirit was generally looked upon as a gift, something to be valued.”
Then of course a load of self righteous idiots decided all of their culture was [censored] and had to be destroyed.
Lots of good responses. And I was never a stay at home dad, I always worked, paid every bill and also did all that cooking, cleaning, child rearing etc. she quite literally sat around and looked pretty that was it. Yep big mistake. Gender or no gender there was not a partnership. Point blank and period.
Otherwise not a lot to report. Been spending more time with the kids. Took them to the snow the other day, drove the RC trucks around up there on the mountain. Today I took my son to the nickel arcade. Also I downloaded a dating app. But I have zero Intention of dating. It’s actually just to talk to people of the opposite sex and kind of be social. I don’t hang around bars and the like. So far a couple nice people but they either want quick sex or a marriage. I need nothing from anyone. Including my WW. I am still having a hard time facing that my M is over and not blaming it all on me. But I keep my mouth shut and just move forward. I am still a bit much in replies too wordy as you pointed out sandy. But my convincing, and nicing and etc has really gone significantly down. I know I should have the balls to just stop but my NGs was so bad that even slowly backing off is hard.
I’ll get there. And it’s gonna hurt. And it [censored]. But that seems to be life, and nothing will remain terrible forever.
Oh and get this: my WW actually 100% believes that we will be together in the future, she outright admits she will never do better for her or the kids. But she isn’t “ready” right now and enjoys the feeling of being single for “awhile” before she re-commits to the M. Yeah what that is is simple. My H is out, but still attached so I can do whatever I want until mom and dad move away and I’ll stay in the house and get my loving H back when they go in several months or so. That is exactly her plan... just... wow...
Even the GD grinch on his foulest day had a bigger heart than that.
Also I downloaded a dating app. But I have zero Intention of dating. It’s actually just to talk to people of the opposite sex and kind of be social. I don’t hang around bars and the like. So far a couple nice people but they either want quick sex or a marriage. I need nothing from anyone. Including my WW.
Groan.
You actually believe this crap that you spew?
Also I downloaded a dating app. But I have zero Intention of dating. It’s actually just to talk to people of the opposite sex and kind of be social
Groan.
You actually believe this crap that you spew?
Steve, obviously, delete the dating app. We get your self-esteem has tanked, but switching from your ex-wife to other women for external validation is not a healthy way forward. It's "Weak Steve". Consider seeing a therapist now if you want to accelerate your progress. The VA may take time, but many services will hook you up for under $100. The cost of your bottle of wine. A fifth of the cost of your RC car.
Steve,
The only way your W takes you back is no other man will have her and she needs someone to take care of her. I know that sounds enticing to you right now but she is just going to use you again until something else comes along. Then you will be in the same place again.
The only way your W takes you back is no other man will have her
True. Do you get this Steve? Your ex values you as you value yourself.
I agree with LH 100%. Users gonna use. Steve, if you want to be the consolation prize for her then you will put meaning into her words.
Steve, if she came to you right now and said she was ready to try again, what would you do?
Steve, if she came to you right now and said she was ready to try again, what would you do?
Do you really need to ask this question ?
Steve wasted a $100 on a bottle of wine, for their romantic meal about 2 weeks ago.
I think we all know the answer!
Steve, if she came to you right now and said she was ready to try again, what would you do?
Do you really need to ask this question ?
Steve wasted a $100 on a bottle of wine, for their romantic meal about 2 weeks ago.
I think we all know the answer!
:Yes, but I am hoping that continuing to get him to answer that will wake him up to the fact that no matter what she says or does, he needs to kick the dust from his feet, and move on!
Omg Steve.
You joined a dating website with no intention to date? Does that make logical sense to you? Those people on the dating site, surprise, surprise, are there to date! They aren’t there to chit chat with you and give you validation.
The last place you need to be is on a dating site. Again it’s a DATING site. Not your place you go to entertain yourself your time would be better spent talking to mental health professionals
Omg Steve.
You joined a dating website with no intention to date? Does that make logical sense to you? Those people on the dating site, surprise, surprise, are there to date! They aren’t there to chit chat with you and give you validation.
The last place you need to be is on a dating site. Again it’s a DATING site. Not your place you go to entertain yourself your time would be better spent talking to mental health professionals
THIS
Omg Steve.
You joined a dating website with no intention to date? Does that make logical sense to you? Those people on the dating site, surprise, surprise, are there to date! They aren’t there to chit chat with you and give you validation.
The last place you need to be is on a dating site. Again it’s a DATING site. Not your place you go to entertain yourself your time would be better spent talking to mental health professionals
THIS
+2. Just wasting people's time. There's a million other ways to be social in this world without being deceitful.