Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: Mumin She's OUT! #7 - 01/31/21 07:32 PM
Time for a new Thread.
Old Thread

Short recap:
Me: 34
STBXW: 30
D:5 D:3
Mini bd: May/June 2019 (I start wondering about OM)
Married: Aug 2019
BD: 6th Dec 2019
I filed for D: 29th March 2020
D final: Dec 2020
XW finally moved out: Jan 2020

Quote
Mumin:
Hey Everyone!
Thanks for the input on visits at XWs.
I haven’t brought it up more and I will NOT be going there. At least not within the near future.
It didn’t help me and it doesn’t help my kids. ( I believe they need time to fully understand their new day to day).

So, the kids just left for the first time.
Sure is quiet here now.
Going to GAL as much as possible this week. Feeling empty now.


Quote
BenB:
Hang in there Mumin, the first two weeks after my ex moved out were the worst for me. After that, I started to see the benefits. That's when the fun began


Quote
Mumin:
Thanks Ben!
Encouragement and support always helps!

Started by ordering new books for the kids, will go shopping for me now.
Then food, work, beer and games/movie tonight.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/01/21 06:14 AM
Hey Mumin,

I saw where you said the house feels empty now. Empty is a good thing! You get to eat what you want, it's easy to keep the place clean, you choose the show, etc. Plenty of upside to that so just enjoy it. One day you'll find a better woman and you'll want that busy life again but this can be fun.

Hope you're well.
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/01/21 07:29 AM
Big thanks for checking in Ovr!!!
I have been looking forward to exactly what you are describing for several months but the emptiness hit me harder than I thought it would. It really has nothing to do with XW and all to do with the kids though, to be clear.
I am sure it will get better and I am planning a lot of GAL. For sure going snowboarding this weekend.

Next few days I will focus on work and on filling some of the things that are physically empty. (ex. She got the TV.)

Pretty sure OM was in my house. Feel really strange, but nothing I can do about it.
Posted By: MrBrside Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/01/21 09:56 AM
Mumin,

I'm with ovrrnbw on this. That first week is strange.

After that, you get into a routine of the new norm.

I'll make a suggestion here ( which is how i work ) which benefits both me and my children.

I spend 100% of the time with my children when they are with me and awake.. Board games, lego, movie, cludo, arts and crafts, cooking together etc etc.
My laptop stays off and my phone sits on silent.. Its me and them. I do the basic "keep on top (ie dishes etc ) when they go to bed or with them if they want to join in ( ie D5 loves drying dishes ) .

When they are not with me, its a case of keep on top of the mess we caused when they were here.. Hoover, clothes washing, cleaning, ironing etc.. Basically the chores that as a "family" you would probably do day to day.
This eats into GAL a lot, but my priority will always be my children. Any other free time i have see's me hitting the home gym or under a car at the weekend.

I love my life - and its easy to get selfish...

All WW are selfish - You just need to be the rock for your children. My 100% thing takes it to the extreme, but its my choice.. They are not children forever, so i cherish all the time i can with them, as in 10 years they will be out with friends..
Just little things like "sitting down as a famly" to eat, or not sitting there on your phone make a big difference to children, as they arent daft - they see you are invested in quality time with them.. and they will appriciate it.

You will love it smile
Posted By: sandi2 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/01/21 11:54 AM
Just remember, this too shall pass.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/01/21 04:01 PM
Mumin,

one of my favorite Stoic quotes

Quote
everything is a matter of judgment


and one of my favorite 90's song's translation of that quote

Quote
If you wanna be somebody else
If you're tired of fighting battles with yourself
If you wanna be somebody else
Change your mind, yeah


Also, props to MrBrside for using "daft" in a sentence. I swear I love the way y'all talk!!!!
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/16/21 06:46 PM
From BL42's thread
Originally Posted by sandi2
BL42 and Mumin, you guys have very young children. How can you explain what's happening on their level? I think LBH's try to tell them too much, really. It's understandable, b/c you're dealing with a lot of nasty stuff. I just think you have to keep things very, very simple, b/c they cannot grasp adult stuff.

Quote
This week is the third week after physical seperation.
I am at a point where I am considering if saying: "If OM is to be sleeping over while kids are there I want to know in advance".


Seriously, why do you think you should be notified whenever the OM will be sleeping over? I've never heard of a WW notifying her LBH in advance when she plans to do the other guy. If you don't want them to laugh in your face, I suggest you drop that idea.

Mumin, you've previously said similar things about wanting to know in advance when OM will be staying at your W's place. When will you realize that it's none of your business? Unless you see some signs the children are suffering from the OM in some way, where you get officials involved, you can't help what goes on in your W's personal life.

The sense of loss of control must be unbearable for you. I don't say this coldly. My family has experienced the same situation with one of our adult children. It's horrible, and there is nothing you can do about it.

((((Big Hugs))))


Originally Posted by Mumin

Hi Sandi, thanks for replying and sorry BL for hijacking (though it sounds like your battling similar thoughts).
Its great with these posts because they force me to think through things.

I fully agree with you Sandi that keeping things simple and without details is the right course. However, if it is possible to communicate/co-parent around introducing new people in the children's lives I think that's a good thing. Heck XW herself got angry and asked me to communicate when I was introducing a babysitter to the kids.

So to the sleeping over issue. My wording above was a bit unfortunate. To be clear I DO NOT want her to let me know every time. Just the thought is appalling.
What I am after is to get a heads-up if/when she is going to be introducing him more in their lives, and it doesnt have to be the sleeping over.
However, as I (like you) believe it is a very dramatic experience for a child that small to suddenly find another man in Moms bed I feel it is the duty of me as a father to say something. Especially when XW seems to not be sure about anything in her life and I think she might actually consider my opinion.

I am not 100% sure about this and I am battling, letting things go vs what's in the best interest of my children.

Will post this same message in my own thread if you would like to answer.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/16/21 08:59 PM
The desire to know who your kids are around is a good one, in my opinion. However, there are a few things at play here.

First, most LBSs aren't as concerned about their kids being around OP as much as they are concerned about there being an OP. Those LBSs are not being honest with themselves about that, but use their concern for their kids as an excuse to "keep tabs" on their STBX.

The other problem is that even if the STBX agrees to this, they are under no obligation to follow it. You could get them to sign their name in blood on a triplicate form......and they still can have OP over at the same time with the kids and there isn't a gosh darned thing the LBS can do about it.

So then you get to the question of whether or not you can trust your STBX to not have people that are harmful (legally speaking) to your kids well-being around said kids. If you cannot, then you should be documenting the problems and working with your lawyer to fight for full custody. After all, a person that would make your kids available to people that are harmful (legally) to your kids, is not fit for custody about supervised visits.

So what does harmful, legally mean? It means someone that is committing a crime in the presence of your children. People that are actively dealings drugs while your kids are there, or that are sex offenders not allowed to be around underage kids, etc. Unfortunately, for the LBS, the OP that is sleeping with your STBX does not meet the legal definition of harmful, and therefore you would look foolish to take your STBX to court for custody in that case. I've actually heard judges say, talking about a WAS parent that is having sex with multiple people, say to the LBS "Okay, so you've proven she likes sex. That doesn't mean that she is a bad mother."

So it boils down to whether or not you trust your STBXW to not bring legally harmful people into your kids' lives, and if you really do not then to fight for full custody.
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/16/21 09:33 PM
Ok I am fully with you there Steve (and others on this board), and I agree almost 100%.
The difference being, just because something isn't legally wrong doesn't mean I SHOULDNT voice my opinion.
If XW were feeding them only rice and butter (which has happened but stopped) and lets say that is legally ok.
Should I never say anything? Not even tell her I don't agree with it. Don't think so.
What will my own kids say in 20 years if they hear I never said anything while I was thinking/feeling something was wrong?
And what is the point of CO-parenting if general parenting principles are never even discussed.
Might as well do parallel parenting (which I have considered in some instances).

So in my mind there is a line were I DO say something that does not necessarily match the legal line.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/16/21 09:38 PM
Originally Posted by Mumin
Ok I am fully with you there Steve (and others on this board), and I agree almost 100%.
The difference being, just because something isn't legally wrong doesn't mean I SHOULDNT voice my opinion.
If XW were feeding them only rice and butter (which has happened but stopped) and lets say that is legally ok.
Should I never say anything? Not even tell her I don't agree with it. Don't think so.
What will my own kids say in 20 years if they hear I never said anything while I was thinking/feeling something was wrong?
And what is the point of CO-parenting if general parenting principles are never even discussed.
Might as well do parallel parenting (which I have considered in some instances).

So in my mind there is a line were I DO say something that does not necessarily match the legal line.


Fair enough. However, I think the approach is important.

"The kids talked to me about eating rice and butter. They said they didn't care to just eat that, can we agree that in the future their meals will be more substantial?"

VS.

"I want to know when OM stays the night while the kids are there!"

First one is coparenting, and working together. Second one is making a demand that, as sandi said, is really none of your business, short of what i discussed above.

Saying "something" is more nuanced than trying to "school" her...not saying that is what you were suggesting, but wanted to make sure that was clear for others that read this.
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/16/21 09:56 PM
Thanks Steve, I appreciate you taking the time and the dialogue helps me find my own nuances!

An update is that I said I prefer writing as communication moving forward and that's how it ha stayed for two weeks now.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/16/21 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by SteveLW
First, most LBSs aren't as concerned about their kids being around OP as much as they are concerned about there being an OP. Those LBSs are not being honest with themselves about that, but use their concern for their kids as an excuse to "keep tabs" on their STBX.


I have to disagree with you here Steve. My not wanting my S around OM has nothing to do with keeping tabs on her or them. I didn’t choose to have a child so that some other man could spend time with him and have influences on him that are out of my control. Whilst I understand that throughout his life my S will come under the influence of people out of my control (friends, teachers, etc), it is not the same as a quasi-fatherly influence.

I don’t know my W’s OM, but from what I do know about him, I don’t like his values and I definitely don’t want my S to spend significant time around a person with those values, especially when those values are being implicitly approved of by his mother.
Posted By: Spiral Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/17/21 05:27 AM
Mumin,

I totally understand where you are coming from. It is tough. But you should only something if you think that it is necessary and that it will change your STBX's behavior. The less you say, the more impact your words will have when you do say something. Save your influence for the big moments. Just understand that this will take quite a while to adjust to. It did for me too and this is the one that still bothers me.

Spiral
Posted By: sandi2 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/17/21 09:45 PM
Quote
First, most LBSs aren't as concerned about their kids being around OP as much as they are concerned about there being an OP. Those LBSs are not being honest with themselves about that, but use their concern for their kids as an excuse to "keep tabs" on their STBX.


The pain and sense of losing any say about who comes around your child, has to be one of the most difficult things to accept. I understand it's a sensitive subject, and it's not hard to make yourself believe it's for concern of your child........when in reality, it's more about accepting your loss of control. Don't get me wrong, b/c there is always room for doubting another person who will hold some type of influence in your child's life. I'd think it would be much more when that OP has participated in the breakup of your family.

It can come across as wanting to keep tabs on the other spouse. I'm not saying there is no true concern about how the OP affects the child. I see this as the same situation when LBS's grab hold of the advice not to communicate with the other spouse except when it's regarding the children. Well, everything is regarding the children, as far as finding a reason to contact the other spouse. I've said for a long time that LBS's use this excuse about their kids, to cover their real reason to make contact. It's not hard to see how that carries over to co-parenting. Yes, of course you want what's best for your child. What parent wouldn't? It's just not that simple when relationships are broken and there is hostility from either side.

Quote
So then you get to the question of whether or not you can trust your STBX to not have people that are harmful (legally speaking) to your kids well-being around said kids.


Taking into account we are talking about a spouse who has cheated and all the wonderful traits that goes hand in hand with waywardness.............this person cannot be trusted on their present character alone. I think there are some waywards who show a little more consideration for their small children, as long as it doesn't interfere with her agenda too much. As Steve points out, the fact a parent has chosen to have sex outside the bonds of M, doesn't seem to carry much weight in the courts.

WW's are quick to jump at any signs of the LBH trying to control some part of their (WW) life. I think what she choses to do with her children is just an extension of that mindset. Are there any exceptions? I would guess there are, but you just don't know for certain right away. So be observant and listen to your children. Don't put ideas into their heads, and just listen.

Quote
Ok I am fully with you there Steve (and others on this board), and I agree almost 100%.
The difference being, just because something isn't legally wrong doesn't mean I SHOULDNT voice my opinion.
If XW were feeding them only rice and butter (which has happened but stopped) and lets say that is legally ok.
Should I never say anything? Not even tell her I don't agree with it. Don't think so.
What will my own kids say in 20 years if they hear I never said anything while I was thinking/feeling something was wrong?
And what is the point of CO-parenting if general parenting principles are never even discussed.
Might as well do parallel parenting (which I have considered in some instances).

So in my mind there is a line were I DO say something that does not necessarily match the legal line.


I doubt there is anyone here who wouldn't feel the same as you. Once the WS has their own place and has their AP coming around the kids..........it's another level of anger and frustration for the LBS. BTW, I'm not blaming any parent for having concern about who is coming around their children. I'm just trying to get you to see reality and what you can control and what you can't. Sure, you can express your feelings to her.......for all the good it will do, but if she sees it as you being nosey or controlling, she won't cooperate.....b/c she doesn't have to. It could cause her to be harder on the kids, threatening them never to tell you anything.

As for the principles of co-parenting, I think you'll need to sit down with the lawyer over the custody issues. Get the legal definition of co-parenting and what that includes and what it doesn't. Now, I know one LBH in real life who put into the divorce/custody agreement that if his XW had a man staying overnight at her place when the children were there......the H automatically got full physical custody. And.......that's just what happened! I don't know if that could work everywhere, but it worked in that case. Apparently, the H knew it would just be a matter of time before she took a man home with her.

I think there is more parallel parenting that is simply referred to as "co-parenting". It's kind of like that "friends" issue. Like, how in depth does co-parenting go? You live separate lives, swapping your kids back & forth. It's not going to be like it was when you were living together. Your WW is more concerned about co-parenting when it involves the price of big gifts at Christmastime & birthdays. That's the harsh reality. When she needs a break, and wants you to keep the kids on her time. Things like that, you know?

I also read LBS's concern about questions their children may ask in the future. They have some kind of dread that their kids will hold them accountable. Sounds reasonable to me, but in real life, I haven't known that to happen a lot. Kids adjust to the sitch and grow up asking fewer questions than you might expect......especially when they are so small at the time of the split.

If your gut tells you something is wrong, then by all means, check into it.

Quote
I have to disagree with you here Steve. My not wanting my S around OM has nothing to do with keeping tabs on her or them. I didn’t choose to have a child so that some other man could spend time with him and have influences on him that are out of my control. Whilst I understand that throughout his life my S will come under the influence of people out of my control (friends, teachers, etc), it is not the same as a quasi-fatherly influence.


This quote from OnlyBent is coming from a place that I'm sure every parent could understand. My adult son had such a hard time when his kids talked up the OM......before he quickly became their step-father. My son's WW had replaced him with OM within a few days... and then he feared being replaced as a dad. I told him that he didn't have to "win over the kids, b/c he already had their love and would always be their dad, whereas, the OM was new on the scene and had to win them over. Once OM became the step-father, he stopped trying to win the kids love, and they grew to strongly dislike him. Their unhappiness in living with the true side of their SF didn't help our feelings. Know what I mean? You want your children to be well, safe, and happy.

I've seen this subject arise a lot when the LBS is dealing with the fresh rawness of their sitch. Even if they accept they've lost their spouse, the issue about who & what influences the children would seem even more difficult. I mean, how does one maintain objectivity, when the OP has caused you so much personal pain. I can only imagine, and from seeing it through my role as GM. That experience was painful enough, so my heart goes out to all of you who are facing this situation.

Can you never express your disapproval or concerns? Yes, of course. But before you get knocked down by the legal system, you need to check what you can control or change. Otherwise, it might turn into a life-long battle where you are powerless.

((hugs))
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/17/21 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by sandi2
Don't get me wrong, b/c there is always room for doubting another person who will hold some type of influence in your child's life. I'd think it would be much more when that OP has participated in the breakup of your family.


This is it Sandi. If the WAS/WS met someone after D who had not participated in the breakup of the family then accepting that person around your child, whilst still difficult, would be much more palatable. My S loved nothing more than our family, we went on amazing holidays together, enjoyed our weekends, etc. I just don't feel right exposing him to a person who was complicit in breaking that apart. I am fortunate that my STBXW and I have agreed that the other person has to approve of anyone who meets our S (though I realise that she was probably go back on that sooner or later).
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/21/21 08:44 PM
Thanks a lot everyone! As usual!
I have waited to see what happends and primarily if kids are affected in any way.
Might bring it up later, we will see.

Just had a weird exchange with XW.
As we exchange the kids tomorrow (she's had them for a week) I checked in to see if there is anything I need to know for the week.
She replies with several messages and pictures. Showing the kids new room (which she wrote she had spent long nights painting) and some pictures where they cuddle in front of TV.
I "like" the message where she explained the kids are doing fine, but didnt reply in any other way.

Now as I come back to the application she has recalled ALL messages and pictures that I didn't "like".

Not sure what to do about this. She is obviously pissed that I am not interacting with her...
Posted By: sandi2 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/21/21 09:06 PM
Quote
Now as I come back to the application she has recalled ALL messages and pictures that I didn't "like".

Not sure what to do about this. She is obviously pissed that I am not interacting with her...


Who cares if she's pi$$ed Mr. Nice Guy? Not you! You don't engage with elementary school age behavior from her. Perhaps in the future you should not initiate contact, asking if there is anything you need to know about the kids.......since she has no adult measuring device and therefore can't understand the question. Besides, if there is something you should know, she'll be sure to let you know it.

I don't remember whose post I wrote it on, but I've expressed why WW's are so eager to send photos of the children when they are on the mother's time. It is to keep you emotionally attached to her. Notice how the pictures were all about how happy the kids were doing in her new place. It nothing but manipulating your feelings. Rubbing the salt into your eyes.

If she refers anymore about the ones you didn't mark as "like", I'd be tempted to tell her to grow up. However, don't bother. There is no winning with someone like her.
Posted By: Kind18 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/21/21 11:53 PM
Google some videos on transactional analysis. Unfortunately, your ex can’t stay in healthy adult mode for your interactions. Her deleting photos you haven’t liked is just pure manipulation - cue child state.

Don’t interact, don’t respond... and understand that people who do this have deeply ingrained issues and most likely will never change.

She can be as pissed as she wants. That’s her problem, not yours.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/22/21 01:44 PM
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
Originally Posted by sandi2
Don't get me wrong, b/c there is always room for doubting another person who will hold some type of influence in your child's life. I'd think it would be much more when that OP has participated in the breakup of your family.


This is it Sandi. If the WAS/WS met someone after D who had not participated in the breakup of the family then accepting that person around your child, whilst still difficult, would be much more palatable. My S loved nothing more than our family, we went on amazing holidays together, enjoyed our weekends, etc. I just don't feel right exposing him to a person who was complicit in breaking that apart. I am fortunate that my STBXW and I have agreed that the other person has to approve of anyone who meets our S (though I realise that she was probably go back on that sooner or later).


This is exactly what i meant. Someone that comes along post D can be just as toxic, and even more dangerous to the kids. LBSs get fixated on OP when OP isn't really the problem, they are a symptom. But that fixation causes the LBS to "not want the OP around the kids for the sake of protecting the kids". It is misplaced. OB feelings are feelings, and you can't help how you feel, but be honest about them.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/22/21 03:37 PM
Quote
Google some videos on transactional analysis. Unfortunately, your ex can’t stay in healthy adult mode for your interactions. Her deleting photos you haven’t liked is just pure manipulation - cue child state.

Don’t interact, don’t respond... and understand that people who do this have deeply ingrained issues and most likely will never change.

She can be as pissed as she wants. That’s her problem, not yours.


If we had a "like" option, I'd use it for this post.
Posted By: BL42 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/28/21 03:35 PM
Mumin,

I've been meaning to comment recently but things have been hectic with kids/work/covid...etc.

First off, congratulations on her moving out! I mean that. We both came here not wanting our Ws to move out or to get a divorce, but we couldn't/can't control it. The 4-5 months of IHS separation in my sitch was awful. Constantly worrying about OM and walking on eggs shells. Once W moved out it gave a big sense of release, freedom, and ability to detach. I imagine you're experiencing the same now, so make the most of it.

This morning I re-read your entire sitch (all 7 threads), and two things stood out way back at the beginning that were maybe glossed over a bit in the discussion...

  • Married Name - Unless I misunderstood, you took your W's last name when you married? Can you explain that in more detail? It's more common than it used to for the woman to keep her own name rather than taking the man's. Even that would bother me a bit personally because it's a social convention they're bucking against me (why if they're "all in" wouldn't they want to embrace it?). But, maybe that's just the times. However, rarely hear about a man doing a complete 180 and taking the woman's name. Perhaps I'm making more of it than there is, but I wonder what the thought process was there.
  • Sitch Prior to Marriage - You live together 12 years and had two children yet only got married a year and a half ago, and only after you already had a "mini-BD" and suspected OM. Why is it you waited ten years and after two children to get married? That length of relationship and the two kids being a big influence would usually (for better or worse) dictate a marriage before then.

Anyway, these two items stuck out to me and makes me wonder how the first 10 years were. Were there problems and red flags before the last two years? I don't mean to be harsh, but wonder if you've now reflected and see things differently than you did a year and a half ago.

I think LH19's comment was spot on...

Originally Posted by LH19
You should have never gotten married. You married a woman who was and still is in an active affair. Not having sex 6 months prior to your marriage is a serious red flag that will be unacceptable to you moving forward. Right now your W is unsure where she stands with the new guy and that is why she went through with the marriage because he is unwilling to commit. If he was he would have talked her out of getting married. Right now she has no respect for you mostly because you are willing to share her with another man. If you are doing this she will never be able to feel safe with you.

Things you need to stop immediately. Stop making appointments for MC. If there is another appointment ever made again it will be by her. No more leaving your house. That is your castle and you will not spend another night in that shitty apartment. She can live and stay wherever she wants and it doesn't effect you in anyway. Stop playing computer games. It is unproductive and unattractive for a 30 year old man.

Every move you make needs to be made from a place of strength. Take the focus off you W and place it on you and your children. If you do this your w will notice and possibly rethink her decisions.


Anyway, congrats again on your new-found freedom. Sounds like you're doing great with the kids and a lot of work on itself. You and I each have 2 kids of similar age and going through similar sitches, so I wish the best for both of us!
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/02/21 07:40 AM
What’s the latest Mummi?
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/03/21 09:24 AM
Haha OB are you calling me a mummy or your mummy?! laugh

Thanks to everyone weighing in!
XW's communication stays strange, she removed another two messages from Messanger and since I read the notification I know at least one was bout the kids so I really dont understand it.
I might bring communication up as a topic up to "clear the ice" but waiting it out rn. Actually had to meet her physically this week when handing over D6. Nothing special to add except that she once again invited me to her new apt.
She said next time you are welcome to come up (I had previously asked her to meet us at the parking).
I just said, ok. D6 was there so couldnt really say anything else.


Originally Posted by BL42
Mumin,

I've been meaning to comment recently but things have been hectic with kids/work/covid...etc.

First off, congratulations on her moving out! I mean that. We both came here not wanting our Ws to move out or to get a divorce, but we couldn't/can't control it. The 4-5 months of IHS separation in my sitch was awful. Constantly worrying about OM and walking on eggs shells. Once W moved out it gave a big sense of release, freedom, and ability to detach. I imagine you're experiencing the same now, so make the most of it.

This morning I re-read your entire sitch (all 7 threads), and two things stood out way back at the beginning that were maybe glossed over a bit in the discussion...

  • Married Name - Unless I misunderstood, you took your W's last name when you married? Can you explain that in more detail? It's more common than it used to for the woman to keep her own name rather than taking the man's. Even that would bother me a bit personally because it's a social convention they're bucking against me (why if they're "all in" wouldn't they want to embrace it?). But, maybe that's just the times. However, rarely hear about a man doing a complete 180 and taking the woman's name. Perhaps I'm making more of it than there is, but I wonder what the thought process was there.
  • Sitch Prior to Marriage - You live together 12 years and had two children yet only got married a year and a half ago, and only after you already had a "mini-BD" and suspected OM. Why is it you waited ten years and after two children to get married? That length of relationship and the two kids being a big influence would usually (for better or worse) dictate a marriage before then.

Anyway, these two items stuck out to me and makes me wonder how the first 10 years were. Were there problems and red flags before the last two years? I don't mean to be harsh, but wonder if you've now reflected and see things differently than you did a year and a half ago.

I think LH19's comment was spot on...

Originally Posted by LH19
You should have never gotten married. You married a woman who was and still is in an active affair. Not having sex 6 months prior to your marriage is a serious red flag that will be unacceptable to you moving forward. Right now your W is unsure where she stands with the new guy and that is why she went through with the marriage because he is unwilling to commit. If he was he would have talked her out of getting married. Right now she has no respect for you mostly because you are willing to share her with another man. If you are doing this she will never be able to feel safe with you.

Things you need to stop immediately. Stop making appointments for MC. If there is another appointment ever made again it will be by her. No more leaving your house. That is your castle and you will not spend another night in that shitty apartment. She can live and stay wherever she wants and it doesn't effect you in anyway. Stop playing computer games. It is unproductive and unattractive for a 30 year old man.

Every move you make needs to be made from a place of strength. Take the focus off you W and place it on you and your children. If you do this your w will notice and possibly rethink her decisions.


Anyway, congrats again on your new-found freedom. Sounds like you're doing great with the kids and a lot of work on itself. You and I each have 2 kids of similar age and going through similar sitches, so I wish the best for both of us!



BL I appreciate you posting here. We have similar sitches and I likewise wish you the best! Just the fact that you re-read everything, Thank you!
You are so right that LH was spot on, thanks for bringing that post back.
However I can confidently say that today, in that same situation I would not have gotten married and frankly wish I hadn't.

Regarding your two points .

Married name
First and foremost its a cultural thing. This is not uncommon where I live.
Secondly I liked the name. Her family has cultural history (well known in some groups) and its a unique name.
My family name is the least unique in the entire country.

Sitch Prior to Marriage
There is of course some history but again, not getting married is a cultural thing. Two of my mothers brothers and sisters have several kids and have never gotten married. Though again, I would NEVER get married in that same situation. I had blind trust in her and chose to believe her words. I was a nice guy (still am to a large extent) and I was a fool. I convinced myself it wasnt about me/us, it was about her. The mini-BD was her saying she wasn't sure about things but when I brought the wedding up (a months later) she still said she wanted to proceed. I grabbed on to the hope in those words like a mad man.

Can add more later. Have meetings now.

In general I am up to my ears in work, taking care fo kids (school has been shut down) and exercise.
Trying to fit in some DIY and plans for the house.
Will probably rent the house out for 1-2 weeks during summer to make som extra money.
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/08/21 01:48 PM
XW: Hey can I borrow your screwdriver? Putting up curtains.
She also came by the house this morning without notice to bring by kids stuff.

Need to set some boundaries and/or tell her I’m not her buddy.
Posted By: LH19 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/08/21 02:05 PM
Nope. I feel like you’ve told her that multiple times. Time to get tough my man. You ignore the screwdriver text and a simple text simply asking her to text your before unexpectedly dropping by.

It took my exw a really long time to get it but she did.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/08/21 02:35 PM
Actions are greater than words, Mumin.

I'd assume what she is doing is using you for her own reasons. You don't have to lend her anything. I know plenty of people who don't lend tools b/c they may never get them back and it's true. Sounds like you have a good reason now.

If she drops by, it's hard to just ignore her since y'all have kids. Let it roll off your shoulders like water off a duck's back.
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/08/21 05:01 PM
Hey LH and Ovr, thank you for quick replies!
There actually was a text on a channel we seldom use anymore... will let that one slide for now.

Regarding telling her, I really haven’t.
I have drifted it here a couple of times since I have considered it often but always resort to showing with actions or ignoring.
I have never told her I don’t want to be friends.
Posted By: LH19 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/08/21 05:31 PM
M,

If you continue to ignore the screwdriver texts she will eventually get the hint.
Posted By: Traveler Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/08/21 05:32 PM
Hi Mumin,

Your choice to give or not give the screwdriver is what sets your boundaries. Most boundaries need little to no communication, and a need to announce them is often a sign it's more than a boundary. Good job writing out your thoughts and taking time to reconsider whenever you're tempted to send her deep messages.

Posted By: LH19 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/08/21 06:10 PM
When it comes to intimate, personal and professional negotiations, the person who has the most to lose is in the weaker position of leverage. By knowing what you want and loving and valuing yourself, you can set and enforce healthy boundaries to make sure everyone in your life belongs there because they have proven through their actions that they deserve the gift of your time. This ensures that you never settle for less than what you are capable of having and creating in your life, because those that are not a match simply get bounced out of your life permanently.
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/09/21 11:34 AM
Hey everyone,

Thanks again for you words LH, Ovr and CW!

She asked about the screwdriver again. "You can put it in the shed and I will pick it up, you'll have it back tomorrow"
I will reply with a boundary later today.

I am very glad we have a good dialogue (every week) about the kids and I really hope we can continue to have that. But I want it to be about the kids only. So I will tell her that.
Posted By: MrBrside Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/09/21 01:39 PM
Hi Mumin,

WW have no sense of boundaries.. They act on what they want or feel entitled to.

Look at it from a logical persons point of view. If i needed a screw driver i would go out and buy a set. They cost peanuts and are useful to have. Its a no brainer.

If i needed something like a tile cutter which i would never use again, thats different.. Would i ever ask my WW step dad to lend me his - not in a million years. I would rather buy my own or rent one.

Within a week of leaving, my WW asked to borrow a spade to do some gardening. I ignored, and got several s&&&y replies for ignoring.

BUT i'm glad i did ignore.

Since then she has asked me to look at her car (i'm very good with cars), and i told her to take it to a garage - so she put the guilt trip on me.. Again, selfish, WW mindset. She told me our children would be in the car and i was risking their lives ( in reality it was losing water and the radiator fans were constantly kicking in from what i could hear ) - I calmly replied withr "Well the children are with me for the next 3 days, so thats plenty of time for you to get it sorted"..

Always remember - She FIRED YOU as the husband. Give a WW an inch, she will take a mile - and some !!!

As for the good dialogue.. I've followed your sitch and your WW isnt the most stable of people. Just protect yourself and your children, as i dont believe WW will keep it "happy dialogue" once she loses more control.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/09/21 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by MrBrside
Hi Mumin,

WW have no sense of boundaries.. They act on what they want or feel entitled to.

Look at it from a logical persons point of view. If i needed a screw driver i would go out and buy a set. They cost peanuts and are useful to have. Its a no brainer.

If i needed something like a tile cutter which i would never use again, thats different.. Would i ever ask my WW step dad to lend me his - not in a million years. I would rather buy my own or rent one.

Within a week of leaving, my WW asked to borrow a spade to do some gardening. I ignored, and got several s&&&y replies for ignoring.

BUT i'm glad i did ignore.

Since then she has asked me to look at her car (i'm very good with cars), and i told her to take it to a garage - so she put the guilt trip on me.. Again, selfish, WW mindset. She told me our children would be in the car and i was risking their lives ( in reality it was losing water and the radiator fans were constantly kicking in from what i could hear ) - I calmly replied withr "Well the children are with me for the next 3 days, so thats plenty of time for you to get it sorted"..

Always remember - She FIRED YOU as the husband. Give a WW an inch, she will take a mile - and some !!!

As for the good dialogue.. I've followed your sitch and your WW isnt the most stable of people. Just protect yourself and your children, as i dont believe WW will keep it "happy dialogue" once she loses more control.



This is the key in my opinion. The thinking here from the WW is "Oh he'd take me back anytime I want him to, so borrowing a screwdriver will be a piece of cake!" That is a double entendre! Piece of cake as in easy, and piece of cake as in having their cake and eat it too! Cake eating is the worst thing you can allow a WW to do. They will take you all the way to the bank eating cake if you allow them.

I love what you did here MrB. So many LBSs make excuses to keep acting as the SPOUSE of the WS/WAS. "But it is the car my kids will be in, I do not trust any other mechanic to work on the car." We see that thinking/behavior all the time. So good job, this is perfect and how LBSs should be dealing with their WAS!!
Posted By: MrBrside Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/09/21 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by SteveLW



I love what you did here MrB. So many LBSs make excuses to keep acting as the SPOUSE of the WS/WAS. "But it is the car my kids will be in, I do not trust any other mechanic to work on the car." We see that thinking/behavior all the time. So good job, this is perfect and how LBSs should be dealing with their WAS!!


Oh it gets better.. She had to leave the car with the garage and had the nerve to ask me for a lift back home!.

I told her it was only a mile, so she could walk / run home... lol..

Shame it wasnt raining lol smile

WW's will always push boundaries. My ex stands no chance of breaking mine lol
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/09/21 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Originally Posted by MrBrside
Hi Mumin,

WW have no sense of boundaries.. They act on what they want or feel entitled to.

Look at it from a logical persons point of view. If i needed a screw driver i would go out and buy a set. They cost peanuts and are useful to have. Its a no brainer.

If i needed something like a tile cutter which i would never use again, thats different.. Would i ever ask my WW step dad to lend me his - not in a million years. I would rather buy my own or rent one.

Within a week of leaving, my WW asked to borrow a spade to do some gardening. I ignored, and got several s&&&y replies for ignoring.

BUT i'm glad i did ignore.

Since then she has asked me to look at her car (i'm very good with cars), and i told her to take it to a garage - so she put the guilt trip on me.. Again, selfish, WW mindset. She told me our children would be in the car and i was risking their lives ( in reality it was losing water and the radiator fans were constantly kicking in from what i could hear ) - I calmly replied withr "Well the children are with me for the next 3 days, so thats plenty of time for you to get it sorted"..

Always remember - She FIRED YOU as the husband. Give a WW an inch, she will take a mile - and some !!!

As for the good dialogue.. I've followed your sitch and your WW isnt the most stable of people. Just protect yourself and your children, as i dont believe WW will keep it "happy dialogue" once she loses more control.



This is the key in my opinion. The thinking here from the WW is "Oh he'd take me back anytime I want him to, so borrowing a screwdriver will be a piece of cake!" That is a double entendre! Piece of cake as in easy, and piece of cake as in having their cake and eat it too! Cake eating is the worst thing you can allow a WW to do. They will take you all the way to the bank eating cake if you allow them.

I love what you did here MrB. So many LBSs make excuses to keep acting as the SPOUSE of the WS/WAS. "But it is the car my kids will be in, I do not trust any other mechanic to work on the car." We see that thinking/behavior all the time. So good job, this is perfect and how LBSs should be dealing with their WAS!!

I agree with you guys too and I want to reiterate the simplicity of it for anyone reading:

She is not your woman, act accordingly.

Even worse she is an ex, I'd help a neighbor but not an ex.
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/09/21 08:08 PM
Thanks again everyone for your answers! MrB, Steve and Ovr I am very glad you have been on my thread.

I did end up sending something. Before I read these recent posts, but I am still glad I sent it.
As said yesterday I have never really told her I dont want to be friends and/or set any clear boundaries around "us" and she wasnt getting it.

I sent something to the effect of:
"I am not sure you understand how much you hurt me.
Though I wish to keep having a dialogue around the kids, talking/texting just you and I as if nothing has happen just wont work for me".
(Bit more text but sort of like that).

She responded with a lot of text, first a couple of sentences and then a lot more a few hours later.
First she sent the most formal piece of text to ever come out of her mouth:
"Given the circumstances I understand you have been treated in such a way that is wrong and without respect".

A few hours later was much softer.
"We should have talked more... bla bla"
"From now on I wont ask about general stuff or just pop by."
"I understand its not enough but from the bottom of my heart I am sorry for how I have hurt you."

She also sent (really the only important text)
"We shall of course continue to have a dialogue about the children. I will respect how you feel towards me".

So yeah I am glad I sent it, 2X4's are welcome if you see fit!
Anyway, I glad I was clear on a boundary and I'll be glad if she sticks to it for a while.
Long-term setting this course is very good, she will know my position/boundary much better and I (yes the nice guy) will have an easier time defending/enforcing it.
Posted By: Traveler Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/09/21 08:20 PM
Hi Mumin,

No 2x4 from me! The 2x4s come from me when someone explains their position rashly, verbosely, repeatedly, or for a reaction. It sounds like you know this is what you want and she received it well. It also sounds like a true boundary in that it is there to protect you and not a ploy to win back her affections.
Posted By: LH19 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/09/21 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by Mumin
"I am not sure you understand how much you hurt me.

Definitely would not have included that
Originally Posted by Mumin
Though I wish to keep having a dialogue around the kids, talking/texting just you and I as if nothing has happen just wont work for me".

Not to nick pick but I would have used "doesn't work for me"
Originally Posted by Mumin
(Bit more text but sort of like that).

How much more?
Originally Posted by Mumin
"I understand its not enough but from the bottom of my heart I am sorry for how I have hurt you."

Wow! Most don't get that much
Originally Posted by Mumin
"We shall of course continue to have a dialogue about the children. I will respect how you feel towards me".

You will be tested
Originally Posted by Mumin
Anyway, I glad I was clear on a boundary and I'll be glad if she sticks to it for a while.
Why do you care if she sticks to it?
[quote=Mumin] Long-term setting this course is very good, she will know my position/boundary much better and I (yes the nice guy) will have an easier time defending/enforcing it.

You got to get stronger M
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/10/21 09:15 AM
Thank you CW, I am protecting myself and my own time.
This whole thing is complex as I want to protect our dialogue around the kids.
This was my first real step since physical separation to also protect myself.

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mumin
"I am not sure you understand how much you hurt me.

Definitely would not have included that

I guess not.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mumin
Though I wish to keep having a dialogue around the kids, talking/texting just you and I as if nothing has happen just wont work for me".

Not to nick pick but I would have used "doesn't work for me"

In my language this is actually closer to what I said.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mumin
(Bit more text but sort of like that).

How much more?

It was four sentences in total.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mumin
Anyway, I am glad I was clear on a boundary and I'll be glad if she sticks to it for a while.

Why do you care if she sticks to it?

This is a very good question LH! Thank you! Sure made me reflect and you are so right!
I dont care, its my boundary, I will protect it and what she does really shouldn't bother me.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mumin
Long-term setting this course is very good, she will know my position/boundary much better and I (yes the nice guy) will have an easier time defending/enforcing it.

You got to get stronger M

Please elaborate more specifically if you have time. Do you mean the part where I need to tell my boundary before protecting it?
Posted By: LH19 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/10/21 10:40 AM
I always have time for you M. What I mean is when you truly don’t care what she thinks. When you can ignore the request of the screwdriver and it doesn’t eat at you. I think you are making progress but you are stuck on the last hump before getting over the hill. I think you still want to recon when I would prefer for you to really see her for who she is and for that image to turn your stomach.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/11/21 04:18 PM
Quote
As said yesterday I have never really told her I dont want to be friends and/or set any clear boundaries around "us" and she wasnt getting it.


I'm not sure that I'm getting it either.

Quote
Though I wish to keep having a dialogue around the kids, talking/texting just you and I as if nothing has happen just wont work for me".


I'm not harping or giving a 2x4, I just want to point out something that might be informative for future texting or verbal conversation. When you tell her you want to keep having a dialogue around the kids, talking/texting just you and her as if nothing has happen........it might prove to be a bit of a problem. You see, Mumin, your WW needs to understand that everything has changed b/c of her choice to D you. Even having dialogues about the kids should be held in a business or professional style, rather than two old friends kicking back and talking about their kids whenever and no matter how many times per day. I know, I know........Mr. Nice Guy sees no need in being so stiff necked about everything, but then that's why these types of things come back to bite you in the hinny. It's you that looks for reasons to discuss something with her, and you'll be using the kids as a means to open the way to just talk to her. It's her who wants to talk to you also, but for different reasons. As long as she is wayward, she's going to try and take advantage and use every little loophole you put out there. So, in the future, I suggest you refrain from using the expression, "as if nothing has happened". Trust me when I tell you that most WW's would take that one little expression and run with it. Some WW's would have you on the phone all the time. Oh, sure, something might be said about how the kids are doing.......but it quickly gets into each other's personal life.

Quote
Originally Posted by LH19

Quote
Originally Posted by Mumin
Anyway, I am glad I was clear on a boundary and I'll be glad if she sticks to it for a while.

Why do you care if she sticks to it?


Quote
This is a very good question LH! Thank you! Sure made me reflect and you are so right!
I dont care, its my boundary, I will protect it and what she does really shouldn't bother me.


Okay, maybe I missed it, but I don't know what you made clear to her that is your boundary. Are you talking about not having conversations, except when it's about the kids? The second thing is I don't know what you mean by protecting your boundary. Do you mean enforcing it? If she doesn't honor the boundary you stated, what will be the consequences? Have you thought about that part of it?

Quote
This whole thing is complex as I want to protect our dialogue around the kids.
This was my first real step since physical separation to also protect myself.


Again, I'm not sure what you mean in the these two sentences. How do you plan to protect the dialogue around the kids? Also, are you talking about when you and XW are speaking to one another in front of the kids, or when the kids are at the other parent's house? B/c you can't control what is said in your XW's house.

I want to say again that this is not a 2x4. Perhaps you will think it's a play on words, and if so, please feel free to tell me. I just want to make sure you are understanding what boundaries are......and how to enforce boundaries. The "protection" should be you protecting your self respect. That is the purpose for having personal boundaries.......to protect your self respect. It's not to control the other person. So, what lengths are you prepared to go?

From what I remember reading in your sitch, your desire to have boundaries, is mostly linked to your children. I'm not sure how that works with co-parenting, b/c wouldn't the couple have to agree to these boundaries? Whereas in personal boundary setting, nobody has to agree b/c it's your boundary. It's about your self respect. Now, there may be another term or definition used in co-parenting, like terms of agreement between the two parents, but as I've said in the past......if you don't like something she's doing that involves the kids, then you practically have to take it to court or you're just spinning your wheels. Maybe some other parents who have gone through similar experiences will speak up about how they handled it.

((hugs))
Posted By: LH19 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/11/21 07:29 PM
So to sum it up and M you can correct me if I am wrong. You do not want to discuss anything with her other then the children. You still have issues with your NGS so you wanted to state one more time that you don't want to discuss anything but the children. Your hope is that she respects your wishes so you do not have to ignore her other questions in the future. So if you want to call it a "boundary" then the consequence of breaking the "boundary" is your silence.

I think there is a slight language barrier that is causing some of the confusion.

I can promise you she will test your strength regarding you stating your "boundary".
Posted By: unchien Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/11/21 08:04 PM
Hey M ~

It's nice that she acknowledged your feelings via text. As someone who struggled with NGS, I know I would have read those texts and wanted them to mean at some level that my X was finally understanding me. I don't mean I would have lapped them up, but reading them through the NGS lens I would have felt a flicker of connection.

I can't say whether or not she actually cares how you feel, but at least be aware about how much *you* care about how much *she* cares. The less you care, the easier it will be to detach, to be confident in yourself, to set and enforce appropriate boundaries, and to avoid falling into NGS tendencies (which your W likely expects you to do).

I agree with the others that your boundaries will be tested. If you've ever seen "Jurassic Park", I like to think of my X as one of those velociraptors constantly throwing themselves into the electrified fence, just to test that it is still juiced. Boundaries require consistency over time. Kids do the same thing.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/12/21 02:42 PM
Quote
I can't say whether or not she actually cares how you feel, but at least be aware about how much *you* care about how much *she* cares. The less you care, the easier it will be to detach, to be confident in yourself, to set and enforce appropriate boundaries, and to avoid falling into NGS tendencies (which your W likely expects you to do).


If she is truly sorry for the pain she's caused, then I believe her actions linked to you will show more respect and less self centeredness. It's hard for me to explain, but I'll try. By the time the WW has OM, and her rebellion is more open, she doesn't see her new life having anything to do with how her LBH feels. She doesn't really tune in on how much suffering he is experiencing. Now, hold on a second and remember her so-called logic has flown the coop some time ago, so what I'm saying will make no sense to the LBH. Her sensitivity key has been shut down, and that's why she doesn't show the same compassion and concern for how all of this affects the children.......or the LBH. Her mindset is that they'll get over it. I think it must be a real problem for the spouse and children to realize everything is truly about "her".

I remember when my H told me that I had not even offered him an apology. I looked at him as if he had lost his mind. When he said something about his pain, I quickly told him in a typical WW tone that this had nothing to do about me setting out to cause him pain. In other words, I was saying, "This has nothing to do with you!" Of course it's a ridiculous statement, but I have read very similar statements other WW's would make. They are that cold, selfish, and disconnected to the feelings of her H. At what point does the WW realize how much pain she caused her LBH? I think some try to show a thin veil of concern, by saying things like your W has recently said to you. However, I don't believe for a second that she is remorseful for her actions. The WW attitude is like, "Well, I'm sorry you got hurt"........or, "I never meant to hurt you, but I suppose it couldn't be helped".......or something else along that line. She may even soften her voice or have a look on her face that suggests she really means it. Here's the thing..........until she goes through her WW journey, so to speak, and can actually feel remorse........it's like she's not capable of really feeling sorry that her H got hurt. Plus, if he calls her out about it.......she will get defensive and start pulling things from the past that she feels justifies her wayward decisions.

So, yeah, just look at it face value b/c if it ever hits her just how much damage she's caused, I think it will be very hard for her to admit to you her regret.........especially if she has moved on with someone else. I was coming to the board every night to get my head screwed on right, and yet, it took almost two years of reading tons of posts from LBH's who had been shredded to pieces by their WW. I was a recovering WW at the time, and I was reading those stories where these LBH's were sharing their pain, and I begin to slowly realize what I put my own H through. The LBH's were telling me things my own H would never say. But remember, it didn't happen until I decided to do the right thing.

I was once asked if every WW went through the same steps or process, like did they have to decide to do the right thing first, before they made changes or felt remorse. It's hard for me to see it any other way, except to say WW's make decisions to end their M, get D, and maybe even marry another man. Some of these gals may never experience remorse, or if they do......their XH never knows about it. So, I won't say their is a definite bullet point step by step process you can use to do determine anything about the WW coming to her senses or on her way to recovery. There are some who never go back to who they were (or portrayed to be) as the person you knew. Whenever there are personality disorders, or any additional issues, it just makes their sitch a bit unique from the other person without mental health issues, physical issues, FOO problems, etc., etc. This subject can get deep, so I'll just leave it there for now.

My advice to all you LBH's who struggle with NGS, is not to give more than face value to anything your WW or XWW says or does that appears good.....normal......or even hopeful. As much as you want to see her former self, it is a process that depends of her free will. It's a choice for her, and it is very hard work (and needs to be hard) to recover from that awful, wayward mindset.

((hugs))
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/13/21 06:25 PM
Wow guys, the support her is so amazing!
Thank you LH, Sandi and U!
Originally Posted by LH19
I think you still want to recon when I would prefer for you to really see her for who she is

I believe I am further along here than you might think. What is mostly holding me back (from totally ignoring her) is NGS and caring for the kids.

Originally Posted by Sandi
When you tell her you want to keep having a dialogue around the kids, talking/texting just you and her as if nothing has happen........it might prove to be a bit of a problem. You see, Mumin, your WW needs to understand that everything has changed b/c of her choice to D you. Even having dialogues about the kids should be held in a business or professional style, rather than two old friends kicking back and talking about their kids whenever and no matter how many times per day.

Not sure if its you or me misunderstanding here but I told her that I CAN'T talk as if nothing happened.
I do stay business only, though showing feelings around the kids of course. Ex "It's so great to see D6 play with ...."
No contact at all with XW now and I hope it stays once a week and in the future even less.

Originally Posted by LH19
So to sum it up and M you can correct me if I am wrong. You do not want to discuss anything with her other then the children. You still have issues with your NGS so you wanted to state one more time that you don't want to discuss anything but the children. Your hope is that she respects your wishes so you do not have to ignore her other questions in the future. So if you want to call it a "boundary" then the consequence of breaking the "boundary" is your silence.

I think there is a slight language barrier that is causing some of the confusion.

I can promise you she will test your strength regarding you stating your "boundary".

This is correctly summed up.
The only correction being I had never really stated that before.
I m 100% sure she will test me and I will need to remind myself because it will probably be in a few months time and very slightly, increasing if I let it.

Originally Posted by unchien
Hey M ~

It's nice that she acknowledged your feelings via text. As someone who struggled with NGS, I know I would have read those texts and wanted them to mean at some level that my X was finally understanding me. I don't mean I would have lapped them up, but reading them through the NGS lens I would have felt a flicker of connection.

I can't say whether or not she actually cares how you feel, but at least be aware about how much *you* care about how much *she* cares. The less you care, the easier it will be to detach, to be confident in yourself, to set and enforce appropriate boundaries, and to avoid falling into NGS tendencies (which your W likely expects you to do).

I agree with the others that your boundaries will be tested. If you've ever seen "Jurassic Park", I like to think of my X as one of those velociraptors constantly throwing themselves into the electrified fence, just to test that it is still juiced. Boundaries require consistency over time. Kids do the same thing.


Hi U, long time! Thanks for checking in! How are you doing nowadays? Know you had a rough WW!
I mostly felt some sort of a victorious feeling afterwards.
I was glad she actually said sorry but like she said it isnt really enough. Though it might help me eventually forgive.
Love the Jurassic Park reference! It was my ABSOLUTE childhood favorite.


Originally Posted by Sandi
Her mindset is that they'll get over it.

This is so true!
Great last post there Sandi! IT should be read by newbies.
There sure is a chance she felt exactly that way (Whatever, he'll get over it) when she sent the "sorry text".
There also is a chance it was real remorse, but I will probably never know.
What's for certain is that no matter her words or excuses, I wouldn't believe them.
That would take years of actions.
Posted By: LH19 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/13/21 06:50 PM
M,

I think I understand what you’re saying but you need to stop using NGS as an excuse.

You don’t ever have to state your boundary. I didn’t make a grand statement to my exw because of what she did I wasn’t going to do X. I just did it. If I got a text about the kids I would respond when I felt like it. If I get one about password for such and such I ignore. It took a really long time and lots of rejections for her to get it. If she’s that stupid and can’t figure out why she is completely out of my life other then the kids that is on her.

You’re doing great just keep going!
Posted By: Traveler Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/13/21 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by Mumin
I do stay business only, though showing feelings around the kids of course. Ex "It's so great to see D6 play with ...."

This sounds like a conversation you'd have with a friend. Is that one of your goals for your relationship with your ex moving forward? My co-parenting chats focus on actionable decisions such as if/when to get the vaccine or return to school. There's nothing wrong with your interaction. I do notice LBS who want to reconcile seem to spend more time talking to their ex's about their children than LBS who have moved on, so this caught my attention and it may be worth considering your motives in going beyond friendly.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/16/21 10:36 PM
Quote
Not sure if its you or me misunderstanding here but I told her that I CAN'T talk as if nothing happened.


Maybe it's me, but let me point something out about how you told her. Saying "I can't" is too soft. You can't appear weak or vulnerable to a wayward W. You have made a decision that you WON'T talk as if nothing happened. See the difference? Maybe your feelings cause you think you can't, but don't say it to a WW. Everything must be seen as you being a strong male who is making decisions based on his belief system and core values. When you tell her you "can't", it shows her a little boy who lets his emotions dictate his actions. Very weak in the eyes of a WW!

LH said something about a language barrier. Is English not your first language?

Quote
I do stay business only, though showing feelings around the kids of course. Ex "It's so great to see D6 play with ...."


Good to stay business-like. Oh, wait............what? What do you mean showing feelings around the kids?

I agree with LH that you can't use NGS as an excuse. It helps to understand it, but it's not a "get out of jail card". NGS is a problem, but you can change a lot of it, if you really want to change. I've seen it happen first hand, with my H. I'm concerned if you truly want to stop some of your nice guy ways with your WW. (Some guys are quite proud to tell us they are a nice guy.......apparently, not fully understanding what it means.)

I really want you to grow through this experience and not suffer in the next relationship, due to NGS. BTW, I'm not suggesting you haven't been working on yourself. When I read the posts you write on other threads, I get the feeling you are working. So, keep it up, and don't get discouraged if we point something out.

((hugs))
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/18/21 08:17 AM
How you been Mumin?
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: She's OUT! #7 - 03/31/21 09:32 AM
Mumin, helloooooooooooooo? How you been fam?
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 04/25/21 09:45 PM
Hi All, and OB i hade seen your post. I have been trying to stay away from here and I am contemplating a ban for myself for a while. To grow and to let go. I still have anger.
I will get more into it and update more.
General status is same except apparently OM is sleeping over while kids are at XWs place.
Me - So at moms you get to eat breakfast in front of the TV every day?
D6 - Almost, except for when OM is there.

Anyway, I wanted to get some input from the wisdom of the board.
D3 is turning four in a bit over a week and I asked XW about hosting a small party for D3s closest friends.
(Last year I did everything and XW didn’t have the guts to show up.)
She suggested having the party at the house (my house) and being outside if the weather permits it.
She also said D3 wants us both to be there.
I basically said I will think about what’s best and that I will ask D3 who she wants to be there.
How have you great ppl handled similar situations?
I’d prefer not being with XW, though will definitely listen mostly to D3s wishes.
Simultaneously I am almost certain XW won’t want specific ppl to come. My parents for instance.
Certain friends will also make her very uncomfortable.
My house my rules I guess. I won’t ask her what she thinks and I sure as hell won’t allow OM here.

Also a tip. Meditation app, “waking up”.
I finally understand meditation!
Posted By: BL42 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 04/25/21 10:06 PM
Mumin,
Originally Posted by Mumin
General status is same except apparently OM is sleeping over while kids are at XWs place.
Me - So at moms you get to eat breakfast in front of the TV every day?
D6 - Almost, except for when OM is there.

Unfortunately sounds very familiar :-(

Originally Posted by Mumin
D3 is turning four in a bit over a week and I asked XW about hosting a small party for D3s closest friends.
(Last year I did everything and XW didn’t have the guts to show up.)
She suggested having the party at the house (my house) and being outside if the weather permits it.
She also said D3 wants us both to be there.
I basically said I will think about what’s best and that I will ask D3 who she wants to be there.
How have you great ppl handled similar situations?
I’d prefer not being with XW, though will definitely listen mostly to D3s wishes.
Simultaneously I am almost certain XW won’t want specific ppl to come. My parents for instance.
Certain friends will also make her very uncomfortable.
My house my rules I guess. I won’t ask her what she thinks and I sure as hell won’t allow OM here.

My W initially said she wanted to do birthdays and holidays and going out for ice cream together, but that all changed as soon as she moved out and had OM2 over at my daughter's 2nd birthday...not that I wanted to do them together anyway. We've been doing things separately, and that's fine by me - less stress/drama/anxiety without worry about W, M-I-L, OM2. I saw do your own thing and make it great for D3. Unfortunately she'll have to get used to doing things separately - that's divorce - but she'll have fun anyway. My S5 and D2 weren't sad at my parties for them because their mom wasn't there, and imagine they weren't sad at their mother's parties for them either (with me not there). They enjoyed both.
Posted By: Traveler Re: She's OUT! #7 - 04/25/21 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by Mumin
I will ask D3 who she wants to be there. Simultaneously I am almost certain XW won’t want specific ppl to come. My parents for instance. Certain friends will also make her very uncomfortable.

Sounds complicated. She's not your W, so you don't have to negotiate so much.

I celebrate my D's birthday at my house in the way and with the guests I and D want, my XW celebrates D's birthday at her house in the way and with the guests she and D wants. Our custody schedule alternates who holds the "public" party each year--so friends don't have to choose sides.

XW hasn't entered my home since D. It's me and my kids' home, not some shared home.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: She's OUT! #7 - 04/26/21 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by Mumin
Hi All, and OB i hade seen your post. I have been trying to stay away from here and I am contemplating a ban for myself for a while. To grow and to let go. I still have anger.
I will get more into it and update more.
General status is same except apparently OM is sleeping over while kids are at XWs place.
Me - So at moms you get to eat breakfast in front of the TV every day?
D6 - Almost, except for when OM is there.

Anyway, I wanted to get some input from the wisdom of the board.
D3 is turning four in a bit over a week and I asked XW about hosting a small party for D3s closest friends.
(Last year I did everything and XW didn’t have the guts to show up.)
She suggested having the party at the house (my house) and being outside if the weather permits it.
She also said D3 wants us both to be there.
I basically said I will think about what’s best and that I will ask D3 who she wants to be there.
How have you great ppl handled similar situations?
I’d prefer not being with XW, though will definitely listen mostly to D3s wishes.
Simultaneously I am almost certain XW won’t want specific ppl to come. My parents for instance.
Certain friends will also make her very uncomfortable.
My house my rules I guess. I won’t ask her what she thinks and I sure as hell won’t allow OM here.

Also a tip. Meditation app, “waking up”.
I finally understand meditation!


In my experience, being able to attend joint events for children is an important part of co-parenting. Obviously this can be difficult early on in a split when emotions and feelings are still raw. So I understand your concern related to not wanting to be with XW. But your comment about:

"Simultaneously I am almost certain XW won’t want specific ppl to come. My parents for instance.
Certain friends will also make her very uncomfortable.
My house my rules I guess. I won’t ask her what she thinks and I sure as hell won’t allow OM here."

So when does this start being about D3 and stop being about what XW is comfortable with or what you are comfortable with? This is a 4 year-old birthday party so it isn't as important of an event, but there will be many future events where you and your XW have to be able to attend, with your respective significant others, that will require you both to be grownups about supporting your daughter, not ruining the event for her, and understanding that her interests and well-being is more important than either of yours. Things like Sweet 16 birthday party, graduation from high school and college, her wedding, etc. It is unrealistic that in the future, if your XW ends up marrying OM, that you will never be at an event for your kids that XW and OM won't be also present at.

My W has had a life-long issue with trying to juggle events like this between her mom and her dad who divorced when she was 8 years old. The first 15-20 years of her life were ruined by her parents not being able to coexist and get along at various events of hers. Our wedding was the first time they both attended an event and didn't have a incident, and even then it was a very tense, uncomfortable situation having them both there.

Don't do that to your kids. Be the bigger person. Don't forget that this is her birthday, or it is her graduation, or that it is her wedding, and make it the most joyous occasion that you possibly can......FOR HER.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: She's OUT! #7 - 05/19/21 11:23 AM
Where you at Mumin?
Posted By: BL42 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 01/13/22 05:41 AM
How's it going Mumin? Care to share an update?
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 01/31/22 04:40 PM
For info. This time Ive seen the post BL and Im working on a real update but it ended up taking more time than I had.
In one word Im doing Good. Thank you for asking!
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/08/22 03:23 PM
Hi all, and thanks for checking in BL and OB!
It really has been a long time since I posted. Had to re-read my latest posts to remember. Which I consider a good thing, btw.

Laughed hard when re-reading this from unchien:
Quote
“I agree with the others that your boundaries will be tested. If you've ever seen "Jurassic Park", I like to think of my X as one of those velociraptors constantly throwing themselves into the electrified fence, just to test that it is still juiced. Boundaries require consistency over time. Kids do the same thing.”

In short I have been living a really good life, sure covid [censored] but I have managed real well in 2021. Excelling at work, excelling in the gym (235 workouts last year), dated/talked to a few women (one exclusive for a few months), building some stuff at home and really spending quality time with the kids every other week.
So yeah, I dated a girl and it was actually great. Though I ended it because I didn’t really feel that strong of a connection and she was sort of in a hurry. Hurry to define our R, hurry to talk about kids etc Which I am definitely not. She was also recently divorced but had no kids so the compatibility wasn’t great I guess. She did say I was the best she ever had and wished me well, so we ended on good terms. grin

I feel I still have a lot to consider for myself and think about. Do I ever actually want more kids? Do I even want to get married again? Where do I want to be in 10 years?
Not that I need to completely decide and be final about it, but I need to have my priorities set and
a "game plan". I realized this during dating.


Status with XW is in general good.
On average I would say we communicate 1-3 times per week. That is more than I thought it would be but its only about the kids, coordinating quarantines, change of days, school etc
It doesn’t bother me anymore, so the frequency isn’t really a problem. I have learned what I can’t control and when it is time to voice my opinion.
I believe she isn’t feeling great and perhaps the grass wasn’t perfectly green on the other side. However, given her way of corresponding she seems to have moved on from me and is (probably) relatively happy with how things turned out. Though that’s just my guess.
I am +99% certain I saw XW on tinder, though (to my knowledge) OM is still very much in the picture. She used the word “slut” to describe herself…

She has however come around more and more to caring for the kids and doing her “duty” as a parent which is great. Initially my mental reflex was “OH, so now you care??!!!” but today it just makes me happy to see she cares. XW’s parents couldn’t even look at each other after their divorce, and still can’t. Initially I wasn’t sure if we might end up like that but now I am glad we are heading in a much better direction.

Where am I with XW and the divorce?
I set a few goals for the year and one is to COMPLETLEY let her go. I mostly have but as with any long-term love I can’t just forget about her. It's always been that way for me with GFs. I know, most of you might say “STILL??!”. But yeah, some unconscious part of me misses her and what we had from time to time.
The most notable situation for me was when I picked up the kids to celebrate Christmas with my family and they started telling me about how they celebrated Christmas day with OM and his family. I wasn’t aware they were going to do that and that really hit me hard. Not a great way to start a 5 hour drive.
Though to be clear, mostly I am doing real great and continue to move forward.

My change/growth isnt as strong a year ago. Life catches up to you I guess, and I don’t have that “burning platform” anymore.
Sort of babbling on here, but yeah you wanted an update. laugh
I am however currently listening to “The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck” which is amusing and a good reminder of some of the concepts I already learned here.

Hope veryone that supported me are doing great and again, THANK YOU!
Posted By: SteveLW Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/08/22 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by Mumin
Where am I with XW and the divorce?
I set a few goals for the year and one is to COMPLETLEY let her go. I mostly have but as with any long-term love I can’t just forget about her. It's always been that way for me with GFs. I know, most of you might say “STILL??!”. But yeah, some unconscious part of me misses her and what we had from time to time.

Mumin, one correction. You do not miss her; you miss who she used to be. That version of her is gone, maybe forever. You need to switch your thinking here from "I miss her and want her to come back" to thinking about her more as if she had passed on. "I can't be with her ever again, but I still miss the good times that we had in the past."

Subtle but important difference. LBSs that proceed as if there is still a chance (insert the 1 in a million scene here from Dumb and Dumber!), have a tough time letting go. LBSs that move forward mourning what they have lost in terms that it is never coming back get over the "letting go completely" issue much quicker.

But we get it! It was a long relationship; it isn't like a switch you can turn on and off. But maybe looking at it as more mourning a loss, as opposed to hoping to get something back, will help you a bit.
Posted By: LH19 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/08/22 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by Mumin
In short I have been living a really good life, sure covid [censored] but I have managed real well in 2021. Excelling at work, excelling in the gym (235 workouts last year), dated/talked to a few women (one exclusive for a few months), building some stuff at home and really spending quality time with the kids every other week.
Excellent!
Originally Posted by Mumin
So yeah, I dated a girl and it was actually great. Though I ended it because I didn’t really feel that strong of a connection and she was sort of in a hurry. Hurry to define our R, hurry to talk about kids etc Which I am definitely not.
I just had the same thing happened to me. It just means she's not the one.
Originally Posted by Mumin
She did say I was the best she ever had and wished me well, so we ended on good terms. grin
You dawg you!
Originally Posted by Mumin
I feel I still have a lot to consider for myself and think about. Do I ever actually want more kids? Do I even want to get married again? Where do I want to be in 10 years?
Not that I need to completely decide and be final about it, but I need to have my priorities set and
a "game plan". I realized this during dating.
Not decisions that need to be made anytime soon.
Originally Posted by Mumin
I am +99% certain I saw XW on tinder, though (to my knowledge) OM is still very much in the picture.
Your Ex is the all time monkey brancher!
Originally Posted by Mumin
She used the word “slut” to describe herself…
Spit my coffee
Originally Posted by Mumin
I set a few goals for the year and one is to COMPLETLEY let her go. I mostly have but as with any long-term love I can’t just forget about her. It's always been that way for me with GFs. I know, most of you might say “STILL??!”. But yeah, some unconscious part of me misses her and what we had from time to time.
Dude it's ok. I don't miss my ex per se but I sometimes miss the family we had. Nothing wrong with that.
Originally Posted by Mumin
The most notable situation for me was when I picked up the kids to celebrate Christmas with my family and they started telling me about how they celebrated Christmas day with OM and his family. I wasn’t aware they were going to do that and that really hit me hard. Not a great way to start a 5 hour drive.
Those things are tough and will be for awhile. Maybe always.
Originally Posted by Mumin
My change/growth isnt as strong a year ago. Life catches up to you I guess, and I don’t have that “burning platform” anymore.
It goes in spurts. After awhile you get burnt out and need to take a break and then you start up again.

You are doing great! Chin up and tits out!
Posted By: BL42 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/08/22 05:38 PM
Mumin,

Great to hear an update, and glad you're doing well. Seems like significant progress overall.

Originally Posted by unchien
Originally Posted by Mumin
Laughed hard when re-reading this from unchien:
“I agree with the others that your boundaries will be tested. If you've ever seen "Jurassic Park", I like to think of my X as one of those velociraptors constantly throwing themselves into the electrified fence, just to test that it is still juiced. Boundaries require consistency over time. Kids do the same thing.”
Hilarious. Love that analogy.

Originally Posted by Mumin
In short I have been living a really good life, sure covid [censored] but I have managed real well in 2021. Excelling at work, excelling in the gym (235 workouts last year), dated/talked to a few women (one exclusive for a few months), building some stuff at home and really spending quality time with the kids every other week.
That's awesome. How do you fit in workouts during kid weeks? I'm struggling staying consistent there.

Originally Posted by Mumin
So yeah, I dated a girl and it was actually great. Though I ended it because I didn’t really feel that strong of a connection and she was sort of in a hurry. Hurry to define our R, hurry to talk about kids etc Which I am definitely not. She was also recently divorced but had no kids so the compatibility wasn’t great I guess. She did say I was the best she ever had and wished me well, so we ended on good terms. grin
I wonder if you may not have heard the last from her...

Originally Posted by Mumin
I feel I still have a lot to consider for myself and think about. Do I ever actually want more kids? Do I even want to get married again? Where do I want to be in 10 years?
Not that I need to completely decide and be final about it, but I need to have my priorities set and a "game plan". I realized this during dating.
Good to ponder those questions but your answers also may change over time and with the right person.

Originally Posted by Mumin
I believe she isn’t feeling great and perhaps the grass wasn’t perfectly green on the other side.
Why do you believe that? Any evidence to support it, or just a gut feel?

Originally Posted by Mumin
I am +99% certain I saw XW on tinder, though (to my knowledge) OM is still very much in the picture.
Unexpectedly seeing seeing XW's profile pop up as you're swiping has got to be an bizarre feeling LOL Maybe a bit validating as well once the initial shock subsides?

Originally Posted by Mumin
She used the word “slut” to describe herself…
Yikes! Would she really write that about herself?

Originally Posted by Mumin
She has however come around more and more to caring for the kids and doing her “duty” as a parent which is great. Initially my mental reflex was “OH, so now you care??!!!” but today it just makes me happy to see she cares. XW’s parents couldn’t even look at each other after their divorce, and still can’t. Initially I wasn’t sure if we might end up like that but now I am glad we are heading in a much better direction.
That's good. My ExW seems to be is trending that way as well.

Originally Posted by Mumin
The most notable situation for me was when I picked up the kids to celebrate Christmas with my family and they started telling me about how they celebrated Christmas day with OM and his family. I wasn’t aware they were going to do that and that really hit me hard. Not a great way to start a 5 hour drive.
I absolutely empathize. That feeling is completely reasonable. My guess is it gets better over time but may always be a twinge of pain associated.

Originally Posted by Mumin
Sort of babbling on here, but yeah you wanted an update. laugh
Originally Posted by Mumin
Hope veryone that supported me are doing great and again, THANK YOU!
Appreciate the update! Things sound good...keep it up!
Posted By: Traveler Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/08/22 06:04 PM
A game plan of what you want in terms of marriage, kids, and where you want to be in 10yrs is great to attract like-minded partners. 10yrs ago I dated someone and was adamant I didn’t want marriage or kids. 5yrs ago I dated someone and was adamant I wanted both. I hadn’t changed. I could take or leave marriage and a second set of kids. What made me want it or not was the partner. I needed to believe their goal was me, not that fairytale. I’ve also met people who can’t legally remarry. There are alternate ways to show commitment. All that to say, “Probably” is usually enough! And your feelings may change over time e.g., as you get over your anger at being a single parent when you planned to do this as a duo, as your kids get older and you’re closer to an “empty nest”.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/09/22 11:56 AM
Originally Posted by Mumin
235 workouts last year

Killing it! Keep it up, you must be looking good.

Originally Posted by Mumin
I feel I still have a lot to consider for myself and think about. Do I ever actually want more kids? Do I even want to get married again? Where do I want to be in 10 years?
Not that I need to completely decide and be final about it, but I need to have my priorities set and
a "game plan". I realized this during dating.

Its good to have these things in mind, but there's some saying about God laughing when you make plans. The answers to these questions may depend on who you meet and how you feel about them and their situation.


Originally Posted by Mumin
Initially my mental reflex was “OH, so now you care??!!!” but today it just makes me happy to see she cares. XW’s parents couldn’t even look at each other after their divorce, and still can’t. Initially I wasn’t sure if we might end up like that but now I am glad we are heading in a much better direction.

Good stuff for taking the high road and getting to this place, it is so important, and nothing is more unattractive than the bitter ex.

Originally Posted by Mumin
My change/growth isnt as strong a year ago. Life catches up to you I guess, and I don’t have that “burning platform” anymore.

But recognising is a great step, you can't fix what you don't recognise, so time to find a new motivation to keep improving and stay on top of your game.
Posted By: neffer Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/10/22 10:04 PM
Still here, still reading from time to time

Keep doing what works for you and your kids Mumin! XW is not what she used to be. You can´t get the past back. Live your present.
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/14/22 05:51 PM
As always, Thank you S-XX, LH, BL, OB, CW, Neff for taking the time to reply!
I find that a little perspective and feedback is very encouraging!

Originally Posted by SteveLW
You do not miss her; you miss who she used to be. That version of her is gone, maybe forever.
Thanks for this reminder Steve, always important to make that distinction. My subconscious self isn’t really there yet.

Originally Posted by LH19
It goes in spurts. After awhile you get burnt out and need to take a break and then you start up again.
You are doing great! Chin up and tits out!

LH, thanks for this!

Originally Posted by BL42
How do you fit in workouts during kid weeks? I'm struggling staying consistent there.
Originally Posted by OB-iwan
Killing it! Keep it up, you must be looking good.

Certainly looking better than pre-BD. Sort of a halt in progression though.
BL, last year I tried to workout 7 days a week during the weeks without kids. When the kids are with me I try to involve them or give them some sort of activity. The gym I go to actually has "babysitting" for 60 minutes for ages up to 12. I use that 1-4 times per month.

Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by Mumin
I believe she isn’t feeling great and perhaps the grass wasn’t perfectly green on the other side.
Why do you believe that? Any evidence to support it, or just a gut feel?

Originally Posted by Mumin
I am +99% certain I saw XW on tinder, though (to my knowledge) OM is still very much in the picture.
Unexpectedly seeing seeing XW's profile pop up as you're swiping has got to be an bizarre feeling LOL Maybe a bit validating as well once the initial shock subsides?

Originally Posted by Mumin
She used the word “slut” to describe herself…
Yikes! Would she really write that about herself?
Regarding green grass, I have over the past year heard some stuff from mutual friends about her mental well being.
Though to be honest, while she may not be doing great mentally she might still be satisfied with her decision to leave me. Though again, Im not sure shes "there" mentally to even realize she actually did make that decision.

Regarding XW on tinder again, I am not 100% sure it was her. But I didn't really feel much about her being there. It was the description slut (and other things she wrote) that hit me.

Regarding that description I have done a lot of thinking about our sex life, what her needs are and what were the dynamics in our relationship around that. (Below is a short notation of my thoughts around it.)

IF she is very experimental sexually and has a very strong sexual desire, then why couldn't she be honest about it with me?
The part about desire (though very complex in itself) I have sort of deciphered (read Intimacy & Desire). It was mainly about communication and expectations.
Regarding sexual experimentation my current belief is that she had a mental picture/model of herself that she just couldn't match with those desires. She was "the good girl" but her mind said otherwise. My belief is that this was a major (if not the most important) contributor to the D itself. T


Neffer, great to see you posting and alive! laugh
Posted By: Mumin Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/14/22 05:51 PM
OH and BenB, are you alive?
Posted By: Traveler Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/14/22 06:24 PM
Hi Mumin,

In my school days, "Stud" was a term affixed to guys with active sex lives, "Slut" to women. Many are reclaiming the term slut, rejecting the sexism inherent in its prior uses. For example, consider the popular 2009 book "The Ethical Slut", on the subject of polyamory. I had an acquaintance who, upon being left by her long-term partner, enjoyed sexual exploration--group scenes, domination, submission, body type differences--before eventually returning to monogamy. That book emphasizes honesty and transparency as the cornerstone or ethical exploration of one's sexuality.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/14/22 07:52 PM
Mumin, you've got this! You are in good shape to move forward healthy and happy!
Posted By: DejaVu6 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 02/17/22 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by Mumin
I set a few goals for the year and one is to COMPLETLEY let her go. I mostly have but as with any long-term love I can’t just forget about her. It's always been that way for me with GFs. I know, most of you might say “STILL??!”. But yeah, some unconscious part of me misses her and what we had from time to time.
The most notable situation for me was when I picked up the kids to celebrate Christmas with my family and they started telling me about how they celebrated Christmas day with OM and his family. I wasn’t aware they were going to do that and that really hit me hard. Not a great way to start a 5 hour drive.
Though to be clear, mostly I am doing real great and continue to move forward.

I am definitely not going to say "STILL?". It's been almost four years for me and I still miss the person he used to be and being a family. Last night I told my daughter about the first time XH met in person and he showed up with a bouquet of flowers and the biggest smile I had ever seen. I told her that I took one look at him and my heart just melted...and it was the same for him as he wrote a song about me that night...lol. I think she really appreciated knowing that but it was definitely a bittersweet walk down memory lane. But...like Steve said...that was who he used to be, not who he is now.

You're doing great Mumin. This stuff just gets easier as time goes on. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: BL42 Re: She's OUT! #7 - 12/18/22 09:00 PM
What's going on Mumin? How have you been?
© DivorceBusting.com