Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: Ace_32 Trying to heal from WW - 01/23/21 10:49 AM
Hi everyone,

Been reading the forum for about 2 to 3 months already and reading what everyone is going through, its comforting to know that im not the only one going through this but also sad to know how many others are suffering through this.

My wife left about 6 months ago and moved back accross the country to where we stayed together for 4 years, she took a job there less than a month after we moved to be closer to our families. She is 24 and i am 32, been married for 3 years and together for 6, no children luckily. Havent seen her since then and she has been getting progressively colder towards me and would send me long messages blaming me for everything and saying its my fault she left, i made alot of the mistakes that this site warns against (begging, pleading, reasoning and trying to fonvince her to give us another chance). I found out a few days ago that she is seeing a friend of mine, i guess he was a bit her friend too while we were together. She is planning on filing for divorce soon.

I have wanted to make this marriage work and i havent been able to detach fully, the last few days i have kind of given up hope and think that divorce is better. She cheated on me before we got married and she blamed me for that too. She did show a bit of remorse and i forgave her but the last year before she left she would go see friends and stay out till 1am sometimes and would message other guys and when i got upset or confronted her she would always say she did nothing wrong. I know i am a difficult person and i was controlling and i didnt try connect with her emotionally as i should have, she did try talk to me about her unhappiness but i was always too stubborn to make the change in myself. I believe this is all happening for a reason and i have been growing in my faith and reading alot these last few months. If it is in gods will then we can make it work, whether the divorce goes through or not.

Not sure what advice i am looking for, just wanted to share and if anyone can give some advice it would be great.
Posted By: Cadet Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/23/21 01:07 PM
Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Posted By: Mumin Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/23/21 01:09 PM
”If it is in gods will then we can make it work, whether the divorce goes through or not.”
Read DR, as you probably know after a few months here.
Read welcome threads.
LTR.
Also recommend “love must be tough” given above quote.
Posted By: dunnm Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/23/21 01:28 PM
No kids.

Almost constant cheating.

Get rid. You have dodged a bullet.

Know its hard but the old cliche, time heals. No contact will make it easier.
Posted By: 97Hope Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/23/21 01:39 PM
Be careful not to take the blame for her cheating. We only control ourselves - with that being said:
Originally Posted by Ace_32
I know i am a difficult person and i was controlling and i didn't try connect with her emotionally as i should have, she did try talk to me about her unhappiness but i was always too stubborn to make the change in myself.


These are things you can work on. Through IC, reading, this forum. Set goals for yourself to become a man only a fool would leave - AMOAFWL.

This is your time. Use it to be your best.

Originally Posted by Ace_32
I believe this is all happening for a reason and i have been growing in my faith and reading alot these last few months. If it is in gods will then we can make it work, whether the divorce goes through or not.


I don't mean to be harsh - but this is happening because she is a serial cheater. God's will is never for us to be adulterers. This time can also be the most fulfilling spiritually if you focus on Him and not your W.

Since there are no children involved, I would suggest no contact, also. You might start making some changes and want your W to know about them, but the work you do is for YOU. Not her.

You will be ok. The pain is finite. I'm sorry you are here, but you are in a good place for support and advice. Read other threads and you will see you are not alone.

Stay strong.
x
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/23/21 03:00 PM
Thanks guys, i have read most of the links on the newcomers thread . The one sandi wrote about WW really hit home for me and i could see alot of my wife in what she was saying.

I havent read DR yet, not sure if it is available in my country but will keep looking. I agree Hope that it wouldnt be in gods will and it is her choice to keep doing these things. I was never able to trust her fully after the first time and i dont think i ever should again.

All my family and friends have been telling me that its for the best and i should move on. I dont even recognise who she is anymore. Will go no contact, i have failed quite a few times. Especially a few days ago when i found out about her and my 'friend' i lost it a bit and messaged both of them but they are denying it still. I think i finally lost hope of reconciliation when all this happened.
Posted By: 97Hope Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/23/21 04:22 PM
I'm sorry Ace.

I understand the desire to want to reach out and tell her and him how their behavior hurt you, but think about it. They already know this.

Yes, the denial is a clear indication that they are people to avoid.

Sandi is amazing - keep "Sandi's Rules" close. Most of us do and follow them. It can be difficult to fully go NC (especially at first) but then you find that you are doing great until contact, or you hear news of them etc. and it hurts again and you realize that you have peace when you just let them go and you live your life.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/24/21 07:50 AM
Thanks Hope, trying to see the bigger picture and accept that these aren't the kind of people i want in my life. True, they know what they are doing is wrong and they dont care. WW has switched before in the past and doesn't care what she does to hurt me.

Will read Sandi's rules again and do my best to follow them going forward. I still love her and wanted to make this work so badly but i cant move on until i accept that this isn't in my control.
Posted By: 97Hope Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/24/21 05:47 PM
You will get there, Ace. Just trust the process. Acceptance is a good step. Good that you realize this.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/24/21 06:22 PM
Yeah i have been trying to accept things and let go for a long time, but i struggle with trying to control everything in my life and it isn't possible and just wears me out. I also wasn't happy in our marriage, so i dont know why im clinging so hard. I always wanted to work through our problems but i think it is probably my pride that is hurt pushing me the last few months. I am also very analytical and try to solve and understand things, which is impossible in this situation.

Mumin and dunnm, sorry i didnt reply to your messages and thanks for your responses too. Mumin, is 'love must be tough' a book as well? Dunnm, fair enough on what you say. My head constantly tells me to run and i deserve better, trying to convince my heart is a different story.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/24/21 08:00 PM
Try to see the upside of losing hope: you get to put that energy into fun and personal growth rather than pursuing a cheater who has left you in reality, though you are still married.

If you're still here in 3 months I bet you don't want her back.

Now go work on new relationship skills and heal from this mess.

Good luck,
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/25/21 05:31 AM
Ovrrnbw, true i think that my hope is what has been holding me back from moving forward but it was also what kept me going the first few months. Can hopefully start focusing my energy and attention on myself more from now on.

Also believe that this might be the case, but my emotions are all over the place still.

Trying to heal, its a very slow process. Thanks for the encouragement
Posted By: Cadet Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/25/21 01:16 PM
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/25/21 01:50 PM
Thanks Cadet, haven't seen her in 6 months and we live far apart from each so shouldnt be a problem. Also didnt mention to her that i am looking at the DB site.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/25/21 02:17 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
Hi everyone,

Been reading the forum for about 2 to 3 months already and reading what everyone is going through, its comforting to know that im not the only one going through this but also sad to know how many others are suffering through this.

My wife left about 6 months ago and moved back accross the country to where we stayed together for 4 years, she took a job there less than a month after we moved to be closer to our families. She is 24 and i am 32, been married for 3 years and together for 6, no children luckily. Havent seen her since then and she has been getting progressively colder towards me and would send me long messages blaming me for everything and saying its my fault she left, i made alot of the mistakes that this site warns against (begging, pleading, reasoning and trying to fonvince her to give us another chance). I found out a few days ago that she is seeing a friend of mine, i guess he was a bit her friend too while we were together. She is planning on filing for divorce soon.

I have wanted to make this marriage work and i havent been able to detach fully, the last few days i have kind of given up hope and think that divorce is better. She cheated on me before we got married and she blamed me for that too. She did show a bit of remorse and i forgave her but the last year before she left she would go see friends and stay out till 1am sometimes and would message other guys and when i got upset or confronted her she would always say she did nothing wrong. I know i am a difficult person and i was controlling and i didnt try connect with her emotionally as i should have, she did try talk to me about her unhappiness but i was always too stubborn to make the change in myself. I believe this is all happening for a reason and i have been growing in my faith and reading alot these last few months. If it is in gods will then we can make it work, whether the divorce goes through or not.

Not sure what advice i am looking for, just wanted to share and if anyone can give some advice it would be great.


Ace, sorry that you are going through this. I know this has to be the most painful thing emotionally you've gone through. The pain of a S stepping outside of the MR and involving a third party is devastating.

If I read this right you were 29 and she was 21 when you married. she was 18 and you were 26 when you started dating. Before I met my W I dated a 19 year-old. I was 27, so the age difference is almost the same. The R didn't last for one big reason: we both were in completely different places in our life. I was established, earning good money living on my own, with an eye to the future. She was in college, living for the moment, really wanting to have fun. She wasn't ready for as serious, committed relationship even if sometimes she verbalized that it was what she wanted. After we broke up I moved on and met my now W. The 19 year-old went through several years of dating around, breaking hearts, and eventually settled down and married in her mid-20s.

I have seen that sometimes a late-teen, early-20s, woman will set aside the "party girl" mentality of their college years, but then at some point become resentful, especially if she has done so to be with someone that is several years older in a different place in their life. My guess is that there is a bit of this going on with your W. I know that hearing this doesn't make it any easier, but I am trying to show you what you may be up against here.

So obviously the best thing that you can do is just to let go, move forward, focus on you, and leave her to deal with her own issues and feelings. I see you mentioning you were controlling, would you describe your relationship with her, especially as she started to rebel with the going out and staying out late, messaging other guys, as more of a father-daughter dynamic? Your goal is to focus on yourself, leave her to figure things out. Depending on how patient you can be, she may wake up one day (probably WAY in the future, think years) and realize that what she had was really what she wanted. But that awakening has to come from inside of her, there is nothing you can say or do to cause that to happen.

That last part is one of the hardest things for LBSs to get a grip on, that they have NO control over the situation. Since you admit to being controlling (I suffered from that too), it can be a particular struggle for you. LBSs struggle with the lack of control: lack of control over their WAS, over their situation, and over what the future holds.

I like your attitude about leaving it to God's will. That shows a desire, intellectually if not emotionally, to accept your lack of control. Foster that. Channel that. Use that attitude to go out and GAL! LBSs that GAL the least struggle the most (the board is full of examples). Continue to 180. If she decides to come back and give it a shot, show her that you are no longer controlling, and change that father-daughter dynamic that may have crept into your interactions. Continue to self-improve! (You mention faith, I am a big believer in reconnecting with your religious beliefs through times like this if you are so inclined.) And finally, work on detachment. You say you struggle to detach, everyone does. It is a rare person that can get what detachment really means, and employ it right away. So keep working on it. It is a journey, it isn't a light-switch. So keep trekking towards it.

Ace, keep us updated. We are here to support and help as much as we can.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/25/21 02:19 PM
Ace, I also highly suggest IC. It helps keep you focused on yourself. And can help make sure your controlling nature is dealt with for future relationship success, whether with your W or someone new.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/25/21 03:11 PM
Hi Steve,

Thanks for your detailed response, think you are spot on with alot of what you said. Both our birthdays are in December so basically exactly an 8 year gap.

I didnt have many friends when we lived there together, all my family and friends were on the other side of the country and i was codependent on my wife and wanted to do everything together. The OM was probably my closest friend while i was living there for the last 2 years and i cant help but think that she does these things on purpose to hurt me, she can be quite vindictive in my opinion especially when she is upset with me. He is 5 years older than me, so 37 which is a huge age gap for her. He is basically an older less successful but probably more fun version of me.

I do agree that it probably become a father daughter type dynamic because i had life experience and i thought i needed to control everything and i was supporting her for the first few years until we found her work. I studied for many years and finally qualified as a Chartered Accountant last year, i was going to help her start her studies this year. Agree with what you say as well about it was maybe what she thought she wanted at the time but she started rebelling and wanting to party more and kept saying how young she is.

In the beginning she fell for me very hard and i dont know if i was ever in the same place as her the first few years, the dynamic started to shift the last few years though. We are both christians but we both drifted away and didnt do enough or live the right way during our marriage. One of the main reasons we got married was actually because she didnt want to have sex before marriage, which is ironic considering she cheated on me after that.

I started IC with a christian psychologist last week and having another session or 2 this week. I understand that it vould take her years to realise, i fear that it will be too late then and i wont want her back because of all the hurt she has caused. I realised a long time ago that this isnt in my control but it didn't stop me from trying to take back control.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/26/21 08:48 PM
Quote
She cheated on me before we got married and she blamed me for that too. She did show a bit of remorse and i forgave her but the last year before she left she would go see friends and stay out till 1am sometimes and would message other guys and when i got upset or confronted her she would always say she did nothing wrong.


How do YOU see it? Did you force her to cheat?

If she really believes that she's done nothing wrong, then she has no high standards or principles by which she conducts herself. IMHO, she gives you this sort of answer to avoid responsibility and to leave you feeling powerless. The only person you can control is Ace. It's time to get your power back.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/27/21 01:10 PM
Hi Sandi,

Thanks for your message.

I do have alot of regret about my part in the failure of our marriage, i never agreed with her blaming me for that and not taking responsibility for her own actions. She would justify herself by blaming me.

I also think that she doesnt have very good morals and it is evident but what she is doing. Trying to pick myself up slowly and get my confidence back.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/27/21 05:27 PM
Quote
I do have alot of regret about my part in the failure of our marriage, i never agreed with her blaming me for that and not taking responsibility for her own actions.


Right! It's one thing to recognize your part of the breakdown, but you are not responsible for her affair.

Quote
She would justify herself by blaming me.


Exactly! Right out of the WW handbook.

Quote
I also think that she doesnt have very good morals and it is evident but what she is doing. Trying to pick myself up slowly and get my confidence back.


Ace, I want you to understand that your W's lack of morals and/or waywardness is not a reflection of who you are as a man. In fact, it's not about you.........it's all about her. If your confidence has been affected, then IMHO, it's b/c you've allowed yourself to believe you weren't good enough and she's replaced you with another man.

Do you believe your W's behavior defines you as a man? You said you didn't think she had very good morals, and her actions have backed it up. Does that mean you have a lack of morals as well? Of course not! Every thing she's done has come from her own free volition. IMHO, how you choose to respond to this disrespect toward you and the MR will come closer to reflecting who you are as a man. Am I making sense?

A lot of us grew up believing we were suppose to make our spouse happy. If our spouse is unhappy, depressed, upset, etc..........do we take ownership of why they have these feelings? A lot of H's do, and will even apologize for something or anything just trying to put her in a better mood. Some guys have no idea, but they think by saying "I'm sorry", it fixes the situation.

Actually, everyone is responsible for their own happiness. Your WW is currently operating strictly from selfish emotions. Emotions were not designed to think. Therefore, you can't reason with her. Having relationship talks do not work with wayward spouses. It's like dealing with a rebellious teenager. You have to know your own self value and where you draw the line to protect your self respect.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/27/21 07:08 PM
Thanks Sandi, i tend to be too hard on myself and i have been for as long as i can remember. I do tend to blame myself alot, if only i had been more attentive or nicer she would still be here,etc. but i guess thats how most LBS think. My confidence and self esteem were already affected before her current affair, i think my self identity was tied in to my marriage and relationship with her. While we were still together i was constantly apologising and feeling like nothing i did was ever good enough, i could do 100 things right but then 1 thing wrong in her eyes and thats all she would focus on.

I dont believe her behavior defines me as a man, but as i mentioned i think my self identity was in our marriage and i feel completely lost now. Yes you are making sense, i do have quite good morals and i am respectful of rules. I also feel that i have been respectful in most cases when communicating with her the last few months, never really got angry or tried to make her feel bad about leaving but i also feel that letting her walk all over me is what caused her to lose respect for me in the first place. I never used to be a push over but the fear of losing her made me weak and i lost my self respect a few years ago.

I constantly tried to fix things or felt she was upset with me and when she wasnt happy i always thought it was because of me or something i had done wrong. Like i said i apologized alot, even when i didnt think i was wrong. Thought i did it to keep the peace and she would never apologise or feel like she was in the wrong, but i realise now that it was weak of me to do that and it never actually resolved the problem.

You are right about the rebellious teen thing, the last year we were together she basically said she had done everything she could and she was done trying and started going out more and saying she can do whatever she wants. Its shocking actually how ignorant and blind we can be, because i thought things were going better between us for a few months after that and i never expected her to leave. I guess that mindset kept me from doing the work on my side to change the things i was doing or wasnt doing that she said she wanted, i didn't think i could lose her and BD was a surprise to me even if i could see all the signs that it was coming. I wasnt happy within myself and i think i put to much pressure on her and the marriage to make me happy, but if you aren't happy with yourself then nobody else is going to make you happy.

To be honest most of the time i didnt understand why she was upset with me, even if she explained it. Think im very rational and i struggled to understand or reason with her when her emotional side came out. You are right, she is not interested in a future with me or talking about us. Like she says, there isnt an 'us' anymore and its difficult to comprehend how someone that i thought loved me so much can just completely turn their back on me. Think we all need closure and understanding but a majority of us will never get it, it cant be a prerequisite to move on with my life but realising this and moving on are much harder than i realise. I think she is filing for divorce this week.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/27/21 08:14 PM
Ace, as I describe it, its like skating on ice and everything I did wrong in my STBXW's eyes thinned the ice, yet nothing I did could ever thicken it again. The ice was always doomed to crack...

I feel for you Ace, this situation that you find yourself in [censored]. I can feel your pain, I could have written this last post myself. After she left, my friends starting pointing all these things out to me. Its taken me a while, but I am starting to realise that I deserve better than this, you will too. We deserve to be happy and to be with people who don't make us feel this way. We may not have been perfect, but we didn't deserve this.

Keep putting in the work, listening to the advice, things will start to turn for you mate.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/28/21 06:57 AM
Thanks OnlyBent, i get your analogy of the ice it makes sense and it was probably true in my case as well.

Yeah its the most painful experience of my life and she doesn't seem to care how much damage she is causing. I used to believe that i deserved the way she was with me because she would blame me for hurting her and thats why she would be cold towards me. I stqrted believing that if i was just a better husband then she would be nice to me and show me affection, the thing is that her love shouldn't have been that conditional and im starting to realise as well that while i may not have been the best husband i definitely dont deserve this.

Sorry for what you have been through as well, i am not completely familiar with your sitch. Have you got divorced or still seperated and trying? Thanks for the encouragement, will keep moving forward because i dont really have a choice. I only have 2 options really, which is to let this ruin my life and be stuck in a hole and never move on or to realise that i cant change the past but hope that there are better things planned for my future and start working towards that. I believe that this all happened for a reason and i needed to be removed from a toxic situation.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/28/21 07:24 AM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
Yeah its the most painful experience of my life and she doesn't seem to care how much damage she is causing. I used to believe that i deserved the way she was with me because she would blame me for hurting her and thats why she would be cold towards me. I started believing that if i was just a better husband then she would be nice to me and show me affection, the thing is that her love shouldn't have been that conditional and im starting to realise as well that while i may not have been the best husband i definitely dont deserve this.


Were we married to the same person Ace?? None of us were the best H or W, that's why we're here, but a LOT of marriages survive when someone hasn't been perfect, because guess what, no one is perfect.

Try and list the values that you would want in a future partner Ace, then list the values that your W has shown you in the last six months. Do they align?

Originally Posted by Ace_32
Sorry for what you have been through as well, i am not completely familiar with your sitch. Have you got divorced or still seperated and trying?


I am on my way to being D in August and every day I am more aware that I was not happy in my old life and that I do not want to be with someone who didn't value me or our family enough to work on things, to be honest and most importantly does not love me or want to be with me.

Originally Posted by Ace_32
Thanks for the encouragement, will keep moving forward because i dont really have a choice. I only have 2 options really, which is to let this ruin my life and be stuck in a hole and never move on or to realise that i cant change the past but hope that there are better things planned for my future and start working towards that. I believe that this all happened for a reason and i needed to be removed from a toxic situation.


You only have 1 option, its the latter. Embrace the escape from the toxic situation. Our situations might not be identical, but the way you've described things, we have a lot in common. You're going to thrive my man.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/28/21 07:49 AM
Its good to hear another perspective from someone that has gone through a similar sitch, thanks for sharing and giving some advise. I know i wasn't perfect and neither was she, she seemed to think she was almost perfect though and she said exactly that a few times. You are right though that no matter how bad things were at times i wasn't going to give up on her and i would never have done this to her.

I will try do that but i can guarantee that she wouldnt meet any of my values for the past 6 months and maybe even longer than that.

Im glad you have come to that realization, im sure it will help you start healing. I haven't come to that place yet but i am getting there slowly and i agree that i shouldnt want to be with someone who doesn't love me or value who i am.

Yes i agree, i dont want to choose the 1st option. It is still a choice that we all have to make though and hopefully we all can make the right choice. Thanks for your messages, i am strong enough to get through this and come out a better man.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/28/21 06:47 PM
Quote
i also feel that letting her walk all over me is what caused her to lose respect for me in the first place. I never used to be a push over but the fear of losing her made me weak and i lost my self respect a few years ago.


Of course it did! It's the old nasty part of human beings. We don't respect those who let us walk on them. Since a W's temperature of desire is measured by her level of respect she has for her H........you can see how important it is to look from that perspective.

Quote
I constantly tried to fix things or felt she was upset with me and when she wasnt happy i always thought it was because of me or something i had done wrong. Like i said i apologized alot, even when i didnt think i was wrong. Thought i did it to keep the peace and she would never apologise or feel like she was in the wrong, but i realise now that it was weak of me to do that and it never actually resolved the problem.


This ^^^^^^^^is so common in the stories we read. She will not respond well to your NGS. It turns her off, b/c she sees it as weakness. Weakness is not a trait that sparks respect in a W. She knew she wasn't held accountable and you would eventually apologize (even if you didn't know what you were apologizing for), so she used your NGS against you. Although some things may change in the sitch, this particular dynamic doesn't change. Even if you split, she'll challenge your ability to stand up to her and not get pulled into her game. You have to stop being Mr. Nice Guy!

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Think we all need closure and understanding but a majority of us will never get it, it cant be a prerequisite to move on with my life but realising this and moving on are much harder than i realise. I think she is filing for divorce this week.


As you said, your identity was linked to your M. If the M is gone, then what happens to you? I've seen a lot of fear in H's who don't know who they are outside of being a husband & father. It's as if their former self has vanished. If that's the case here, then I urge you to revisit your basic core values. What are your beliefs that determine your decisions, your behavior, etc. What can you do to like yourself? You've got to respect yourself before anyone else can. So, start there.

The board is always telling newcomers to work on themselves. However, some newcomers misinterpret that advice to mean work on becoming their idea of a better H. Some newcomers think it means placating their W. No, those things are useless. The WW is not going to let her H work on their MR, b/c she doesn't want it. She's fired him! Therefore, forget her. Focus on Ace. Not what Ace needs to do to hang onto his WW, but totally apart from her and the M. What does Ace need (and don't say his W). How does Ace need to change in relationships with other people? What does he need to do in order for others to respect him as a man? Most importantly, what does he need to do to like himself?

Read self help books, take classes, get counseling, or whatever it takes to be the man you can respect. You are a valuable man, Ace.........you just need to conduct yourself as such.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/28/21 07:36 PM
Thanks Sandi, i wasnt always a nice guy to her to be honest but close to the end i became weak and i can see how that could be a turnoff for her. I let her get away with too much and didn't have the energy to have the same fights anymore and i guess i just started giving up on standing up for myself and sticking to my boundaries. We live and we learn i guess, many life lessons to learn from something like this.

I always stand up for myself and what i believe is right, i think i lost the ability to do that with her. I started becoming scared of her reactions and the things she would say when i brought up something that was bothering me. Definitely agree that she started using it against me to manipulate me into getting what she wanted or to make me feel that im in the wrong. I have stopped contacting her completely now, last week she asked me to post her our marriage certificate because she needs it to file. I sent it and havent spoken to her since.

It was my whole life for the last few years, i didnt really do much without her so its tough. I moved to a new place a few weeks ago at the coast and started a new job, still quite far from where she is though so i have no idea if i will see her again or if i even want to. I needed a fresh start and to see what happens. I tend to drink too much so thats something i am trying to work on, also want to start jogging and exercising more. The last few years have made me a lot more humble which i think is a good thing, i used to be quite arrogant when i was younger but the world has a way of knocking you down and teaching you lessons.

I have been reading my bible and alot of christian books the last 6 months, also cut down on tv. Started talking to a Christian counselor last week and seeing him again tomorrow, he is helping me to realise the internal issues i have and how this isnt all my fault. Also met with a young pastor at a church near me recently and i am receiving links to the virtual Sunday services until the church reopens.

Learning to like myself has been one of my biggest problems in my life actually not just my marriage and becoming a man i can be proud of is top of my to do list. i miss her but i dont tell her about any of the things im doing anymore, i havent for a while. Realised she doesnt care about it and eventually i stopped caring about sharing with her.

Thanks for your response Sandi, really appreciate the time you guys take to give your views and feedback.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/28/21 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by Ace
I let her get away with too much and didn't have the energy to have the same fights anymore and i guess i just started giving up on standing up for myself and sticking to my boundaries.

Hi Ace, hopefully as you work on self-improvement, you'll learn to set and maintain a boundary without fighting. If you wanted a bank teller to give you $100 for free, they'd say no, and they wouldn't fight.

Originally Posted by Ace
i didnt really do much without her so its tough.

It's a chance to try new things. It's also worth trying some things you did with your ex. You can do those now and be yourself without any fear of reaction. If she was worth doing something for, so are you.

Originally Posted by Ace
I tend to drink too much so thats something i am trying to work on, also want to start jogging and exercising more.

These are fantastic goals.

Originally Posted by Ace
e is helping me to realise the internal issues i have and how this isnt all my fault.

Of course! A breakup is usually the fault of two people. You own your part, they own theirs.

Originally Posted by Ace
Learning to like myself has been one of my biggest problems in my life

I'm watching for "automatic thoughts" (my inner critic) to challenge and replace negative ones with positive ones. Ace, keep up the good work! I see lots of effort in this last past. Take care.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/29/21 07:51 AM
Hi CWarrior, thanks for your response.

I would just bring up something that bothered me and she would start a fight or turn it around on me, i get what you are saying though.

True, i have been isolating myself a bit from people these last few months which isn't good. Slowly starting to come out of my shell and do things again.

Thanks, trying to find consistency in keeping these changes going is the challenge but i will get there.

Starting to realise that but when you constantly get blamed and are a person that tends to have alot of regret in general it is difficult at first not to believe what she says.

Thank you for the kind words, im also trying to become aware of negative thoughts and stop myself. I also an overthinker which doesnt help. Will keep on working on it
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/29/21 03:55 PM
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I would just bring up something that bothered me and she would start a fight or turn it around on me, i get what you are saying though.


This sounds like a logical approach.........if you are dealing with a logical person. When you say something was bothering you, was it usually linked with her? If so, it sounds as if she was being overly defensive and went into attack mode. Did you try different approaches? Did you try different times of the day? Did this usually follow after something else had set her off?

Standing up for yourself when dealing with a wayward spouse must be done immediately and without discussion. No pronouncements........no explanations........no negotiations....... nothing. You must have a way to enforce your boundary, that require no conversation. The more common thing I've seen nice-guys do, initially, is to walk away. That's okay for a few things, but let's be honest.......how big of a consequence is it for her? If she puts you down in front of your kids (or anyone) and you walk out of the room, do you really think it's going to stop her the next time?

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Starting to realise that but when you constantly get blamed and are a person that tends to have alot of regret in general it is difficult at first not to believe what she says.


I think you need to get to the bottom of why you have a lot of regret "in general". You've allowed her to kick you around, and you've taken on the mentality of a victim. You'll do the same thing in your next relationship if you don't figure out how to end this sort of abuse. The reason you have so much regret is b/c you believe what she (and maybe others) says about you.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/29/21 04:57 PM
Yes so it would usually involve her or us. I just realised though that i didnt always approach it in such a straightforward way, would usually be quite passive aggressive or make comments or withdraw. Did sometimes say things straight but either way yes she would get very defensive and start telling me things i did wrong. Do think it happened at different times and different circumstances as well, so not always the same situation. When she started screaming or shouting i started to just switch off and withdraw or say that im not going to talk to her if she shouts at me.

I dont have kids and havent seen her in 6 months, the paragraph above is stuff that would happen while we were together. After she left she would send me long messages saying hurtful things and blaming me and i would try to justify myself but i stopped doing this after a while and started apologising and trying to validate her and the way she felt.

I think its a feeling of never feeling good enough, i am my harshest critic and i struggle to forgive myself for mistakes i have made. I think i do know why and im working on my issues through IC at the moment so i will get there. I do get what you say about taking the mentality of a victim, i know i have done that and i need to sort it out asap.

Thanks for the advice Sandi.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/29/21 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
I think its a feeling of never feeling good enough, i am my harshest critic and i struggle to forgive myself for mistakes i have made.

We can only do our best. A week ago, I said on the night of my BD #3 I did not do my best and my behavior fell short of my standards. But that's neither being kind nor true. My best changes day by day. There may be a general upward trend, but there will be times we're tired, stressed, or trying new things.

Originally Posted by Ace_32
After she left she would send me long messages saying hurtful things and blaming me and i would try to justify myself but i stopped doing this after a while and started apologising and trying to validate her and the way she felt.

We can learn from our mistakes. What would you say in your next relationship--with this woman or another--if your partner were angry and believed you'd wronged them, but you felt justified in your actions? What would you say about your previous behaviors--justifying, apologizing, and validating?
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/29/21 07:02 PM
Hi CWarrior. True, many things can be going on that can make us act in a different way. Especially when emotions get involved its harder to be the person we want to be. Sorry you are going through this a 3rd time, that must be tough.

That is a very difficult question actually... i think in future i would try to listen to understand instead of listening to respond, actually try to understand why my behavior hurt her and genuinely validate her emotions. Then if the situation permits i would explain my side. But this is quite tricky when boundaries are crossed, etc. In that case i would probably need to stand my ground. Its quite difficult to tell how i would be in future when everything is still so fresh and i am still trying to heal.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/29/21 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
I think its a feeling of never feeling good enough, i am my harshest critic and i struggle to forgive myself for mistakes i have made. I think i do know why and im working on my issues through IC at the moment so i will get there. I do get what you say about taking the mentality of a victim, i know i have done that and i need to sort it out asap


The not feeling good enough and victim mentality Ace, if you don't mind sharing, why do you think you have this?
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/29/21 09:11 PM
I think the not feeling good enougg comes from my childhood, my dad was always very critical and difficult to please. I could never feel like anything was good enough no matter what i accomplished. I guess that became my own internal narrative to this day, and everyone i know says i am too hard on myself.

Not sure about the victim mentality, i think its an instilled fear of rejection. I havent figured out where that comes from yet but its most likely to do with having to try be what i feel people think i should be and when i dont then they won't accept me. I guess i feel sorry for myself when i feel rejected for who i am.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/29/21 09:30 PM
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When she started screaming or shouting i started to just switch off and withdraw or say that im not going to talk to her if she shouts at me.


Sounds as if she couldn't take criticism and her defense was to scream/shout. I doubt just telling her you aren't going to talk when she's reacting that way is enough.

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After she left she would send me long messages saying hurtful things and blaming me and i would try to justify myself but i stopped doing this after a while and started apologising and trying to validate her and the way she felt.


I've read how a lot of angry W's have this need to hurt their H, and will send them letters, etc. It doesn't really end as long as the other one is trying to justify themselves, but I don't think you should apologize for something you aren't guilty of doing. A lot of women who have this type of anger, are not satisfied with an apology. An apology isn't always a healer. She's mad at whatever and she doesn't care how many times you apologize, she's still mad.


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I think its a feeling of never feeling good enough, i am my harshest critic and i struggle to forgive myself for mistakes i have made. I think i do know why and im working on my issues through IC at the moment so i will get there.


I'm really glad to hear you are in counseling.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/30/21 08:19 AM
Fair enough, didnt resolve anything. When she stopped doing that was what actually scared me, because then i new she had given up trying. Like i said i should have seen BD coming.

True, she only stopped doing that when i stopped pursuing or trying to justify myself. I apologised that i made her feel that way and for things i know i did. Alot of it is stuff from years ago as well, it seems like she never forgave me or let anything go or she was just bringing it all up to justify her own actions and alleviate her guilt. I had apologised for these things many times in the past, i tried to change myself but did make the same mistakes again sometimes.

Thanks Sandi, the counselor is helping me deal with the loss of my marriage as well as internal issues i have had for most of my life and i believe he will be able to help me move forward.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/30/21 09:56 AM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
I think the not feeling good enough comes from my childhood, my dad was always very critical and difficult to please. I could never feel like anything was good enough no matter what i accomplished. I guess that became my own internal narrative to this day, and everyone i know says i am too hard on myself.


I grew up in a very critical household Ace, I have these same feelings. IC is definitely helping me overcome this. Keep at it, mate. 30-odd years is hard to change, so have patience my friend. You will get there if you put the work in. It's amazing the results you get from prolonged and consistent effort.

Originally Posted by Ace_32
Not sure about the victim mentality, I think its an instilled fear of rejection. I haven't figured out where that comes from yet but its most likely to do with having to try be what I feel people think i should be and when I don't then they won't accept me. I guess I feel sorry for myself when I feel rejected for who i am.


And the when you get close to people you pull away because you're afraid they won't like the real you? So you can be open with strangers but not those closest to you in life? When you grow up in an environment of criticism you try and be what you think people will like so you can stop it. Problem is that brings other issues, such as people pleasing and fear of rejection.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/30/21 12:54 PM
Sounds like we have alot in common OnlyBent, glad it is helping you. Thanks man, yeah i guess i only realised these things the last few years and identifying the problem is the first step to making a change. I have faith that i can put the work in and improve.

Yes so i always build up strong walls and it takes a long time for someone to break through, then when i finally let someone in it doesnt really work out. Well that is my experience so far anyway. I am quite reserved and dont really put myself out there, generally talk about superficial things but i dont think i pretend when im around people i just hold parts of myself back unless i feel comfortable with the person. Starting to learn to change this slowly. I think everytime a relationship falls apart i build up more walls though to protect myself the next time, which i need to sort out.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/30/21 04:49 PM
Hi Ace32,

Originally Posted by Ace_32
True, she only stopped doing that when i stopped pursuing or trying to justify myself. I apologised that i made her feel that way and for things i know i did. Alot of it is stuff from years ago as well, it seems like she never forgave me or let anything go or she was just bringing it all up to justify her own actions and alleviate her guilt. I had apologised for these things many times in the past, i tried to change myself but did make the same mistakes again sometimes.

A technique I've found useful is "Repair". A top researcher in this area is Dr. Gottman. If you Google, you'll find a 10-minute summary, "How to Repair The Little Things So They Don't Become Big Things." As the name implies, it requires an existing relationship that you both want to repair (you probably aren't there yet). Your partner would also have to be willing to air a grievance in a non-abusive manner (so you don't abort--boundaries). PS - It's okay to repeat some mistakes. You're human!
Posted By: Traveler Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/30/21 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
[quote=Ace_32] i always build up strong walls and it takes a long time for someone to break through, then when i finally let someone in it doesnt really work out. I think everytime a relationship falls apart i build up more walls though to protect myself the next time, which i need to sort out.

It's a tough balance--walls thick enough to offer some protection, but not so thick you're alone! It takes courage to be vulnerable. I've gone through whole relationships without being vulnerable. Props of having found the courage to put yourself out there, and for working to find the courage to do so again.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 01/30/21 09:06 PM
Thanks CWarrior, will take a look into that technique and apply it in my next relationship. It probably wont be with WW but who knows, miracles can happen.

I do believe in some walls until you feel comfortable to let your guard down, and meeting someone that sticks around and helps break down the walls through trust,etc. shows me they deserve a chance to break through if that makes sense. You need to let your guard down to experience life, for example i am scared of sharks but that wont stop me from swimming in the ocean or trying to surf.

I havent heard from W in a week today, last thing she asked was for me to post her the marriage certificate so she can file. Also, 6 months today since i last saw her. Its been a tough day.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/01/21 09:09 AM
I have lost all hope of reconciliation lately, don't think this is fixable anymore. Not contacting her anymore and have removed her from all social media, still get the urge to search her on Facebook once in a while to see if she has posted anything new but slowly stopping that now as well.

Still cant believe all that has happened, havent come to the point of acceptance yet and still miss my old life with her no matter how difficult and stressful it could be at times. I know time heals all wounds and i will most likely come to a point where i realise this is for the best but struggling to get to that point.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/01/21 10:19 AM
I believe your feelings come from your NGS. I'd bet you could check every box describing NGS. To quote something I read about NGS: "There are a lot of factors and variables that play into how men become afflicted with the NGS. It all goes back to that argument of nature vs. nurture. A lot of our personality is formed in childhood and into adolescence".

"Even if a masculine adult male was present in their son's upbringing, he might of also been physically or emotionally abusive. The causes young boys to internalize the belief that want to be the extreme polar opposite of their father or stepfather, but this often leads to a flawed strategy, while it's good the nice guy will toss out the abusive traits and character flaws of the father/stepfather, they will also toss out the sensible and reasonable traits such as lead, being dominant, and being assertive".


I don't think that's completely accurate for all cases of NGS. Of course, I'm no expert, but I have a NG husband, a NG son, and one who is totally opposite of NG. I had a very masculine father. I know how these guys were raised! However, I can agree the above statement is true for some men. Growing up in a critical environment certainly has affect on the child.

Men afflicted with “Nice Guy Syndrome” are motivated and specifically dependent upon external validation and avoid conflicts or any type of confrontation like the plague. They are guided by three covert contracts that they’re not consciously aware of:

“If I’m a good guy, then everyone will love me, like me, and people I’m sexually attracted to will desire me.”
“If I take care of other people’s needs without them having to ask, then they will meet my needs without me having to ask for anything in return.”
“If I do everything right, then I will have a smooth & problem free life.”

Characteristics & Traits of Nice Guy Syndrome:

A man who if he has a significant other or a dominant female figure in his life, she will lead, dictate, and scrutinize his every action and run the show.
A man who will often go out of his way even if it’s incredibly inconvenient and just completely illogical for anybody but, whose own life seems to be completely out of order.
A man who will often agree with everyone and change his viewpoint to appease, make the other person happy, and avoid conflict.
A man who will let anyone walk completely over him because he doesn’t want to rock the boat. (Think of Marty McFly’s dad from Back to the Future)
A man who is completely dependable and will never say no to anything but, will never assert himself or let people know they’re imposing on him.
Often seeks the validation and approval of others.
Tries to hide their perceived flaws and mistakes.
Always put other people’s wants and needs before their own. (There is nothing wrong with putting other people you care about before yourself but, nice guys take this to the extreme.)
Sacrifice their personal power, space, and boundaries and often revert to playing the victim role.
Often disconnected from other men and their own masculinity.
Often self-loathing.
Idealization of women and become passive aggressively manipulative and resentful towards women who have rejected them romantically or sexually.
Often fail to live up to their full potential.
Are often passive-aggressive.
Often stay in one-sided and often toxic and abusive relationships.
Are inherently deceptive and manipulative.
Frequently get friend zoned.
Often have ulterior motives.
Indecisive.
Emotionally needy.

There's a lot of NGS information on the Internet, and how you can constructively deal with it. Until you fix yourself, you can't fix your relationships. I urge you to really focus on how to change these traits (and they all may not apply for all people).

One more thing, I get it about building walls, but don't confuse walls and boundaries. How much study time have you given on the subject of setting effective boundaries?

((hugs))
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/01/21 07:31 PM
Thanks for your response Sandi.

I do see myself in some of the points but not all. I actually think this happens when im in a serious relationship only as well. I dont think of myself as a "nice guy" per se, i havent always been the nicest guy to girls in my life but i think when i get into a serious relationship and the fear creeps in i start losing my confidence then i start exhibiting some of the characteristics you mentioned. I probably used to hide that part of myself because of my ego though and it eventually comes out.

My mom was quite overbearing and protective over us, and my dad is a pilot and wasnt around much and was also a very angry guy so i can see your point. I always said i never want to be like him so maybe i overcompensated.

I can definitely relate to the 3 covert contracts you mention, especially point 2. I would always do what i could for her and i expected her to do things for me without me asking and i would build up resentment when that didnt happen.

I will google a bit about it and see how it relates to me and what i can do to work on the parts that do affect me.

I dont think im confusing them, walls are more an emotional barrier to not expose myself and my feelings to someone else. Its more of an internal barrier. Boundaries are more external in my opinion and what you dont want the other person to do to you. This isnt in my control, only my reaction to broken boundaries is. I havent put too much study time into this to be honest, all of this is new to me. I have been studying the last 10 years and i havent put much time into improving myself yet, been growing my faith and reading alot of bible and christian books though the last few months.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/01/21 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
Thanks for your response Sandi.

I do see myself in some of the points but not all. I actually think this happens when im in a serious relationship only as well. I dont think of myself as a "nice guy" per se, i havent always been the nicest guy to girls in my life but i think when i get into a serious relationship and the fear creeps in i start losing my confidence then i start exhibiting some of the characteristics you mentioned. I probably used to hide that part of myself because of my ego though and it eventually comes out.

My mom was quite overbearing and protective over us, and my dad is a pilot and wasnt around much and was also a very angry guy so i can see your point. I always said i never want to be like him so maybe i overcompensated.

I can definitely relate to the 3 covert contracts you mention, especially point 2. I would always do what i could for her and i expected her to do things for me without me asking and i would build up resentment when that didnt happen.

I will google a bit about it and see how it relates to me and what i can do to work on the parts that do affect me.

I dont think im confusing them, walls are more an emotional barrier to not expose myself and my feelings to someone else. Its more of an internal barrier. Boundaries are more external in my opinion and what you dont want the other person to do to you. This isnt in my control, only my reaction to broken boundaries is. I havent put too much study time into this to be honest, all of this is new to me. I have been studying the last 10 years and i havent put much time into improving myself yet, been growing my faith and reading alot of bible and christian books though the last few months.


As with most things in life, there is no cookie-cutter, one-size fits all. NGS has varying degrees. I was like you, I wasn't full blown NGS, but I certainly did have covert contracts. Some read the No MOre Mr. Nice Guy and are "yep that is me!" to "nope, not me at all" and everywhere in between. I think most guys have it to a varying degree.

AS far as boundaries, you are on the right track. They are "If X does Y, then I will do Z." For instance: "If my wife sleeps with another man, I will go file for divorce." The boundaries is cheating. The action on your part is D. Once you have established a boundary you need to be ready to follow through. Or your boundaries are meaningless and will never be respected.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/01/21 08:27 PM
Hey Steve, i agree with you that we all have it to some extent.

I messaged my WW about 3 weeks ago saying that i am willing to put in the work to make this work and she needs to make a choice whether she wants to or im going to move on with my life and file. she said she wants a divorce and she will file and she doesnt want anything. Found out a few days later that she is seeing a friend of mine but thats beside the point. So basically im waiting for divorce papers to be delivered to me any day now.

The thing is i still love her, but is she the type of person i want to spend the rest of my life with and give my everything for? I dont think so anymore. I made mistakes but i was good to her, i deserve better than this. I will sign the papers and send back to her without a word. Maybe one day she wil realize what she has done, but that isnt my burden to bear.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/04/21 08:50 PM
Hey everyone, haven't posted in a few days. I think i have just been feeling numb and going with the flow lately.

Thinking now though how messed up it is that people can make a committment to you and then just backtrack because they dont want to try anymore or they dont accept the parts of you they used to. I also had a terible few years with my wife but i never would have done this to her or left her. I really cant understand how people can just switch off like this to someone they used to love.

Can't imagine how difficult it must be for you guys in IHS or having kids and still seeing her often, it makes it a bit easier not having seen her in 6 months but im still struggling to find acceptance of this situation. I realise i have no choice and i have no control, but i still feel like there is hope no matter how stupid that makes me seem. I am still NC and will keep it that way. Who wants to be with someone that doesn't care about them at all anymore.... apparently Ace
Posted By: Adam04 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/05/21 07:11 AM
Hi Ace,

It does suck, there's no denying that but we can try to make it less sucky by doing things. We create our own happiness. So if something bothers you, identify it and figure out how you want to deal with it. If it's a way of thinking and how you're feeling, control that. Try to watch something funny on tv. Go outside and run, do something worthwhile that you enjoy. If things come up and you know they're feelings you have to process, be patient and kind to yourself, allow yourself to feel the emotions and let them cycle through. It may not make sense at first and you might struggle with it but the more you do and create your own happiness, the less time you think about the things that bring you down. And of course when we wind down to sleep, those thoughts usually creep in. Save time for sleep, for sleep.

Save those deep thoughts for IC.

Ace, there can be a lot said about how messed up it is when the other person leaves us and we make the argument that we would never do the same. I don't justify their actions, but I won't say its 100% all their fault. They were the ones pulling the trigger. Sometimes what we do when we are unhappy is that we make it unpleasant for others too. When you said you had a terrible few years, what did you do to fix that and find happiness? I wonder if you fixed it at all or if you shifted that burden onto your W. Not saying you did that but it could very well be likely without you purposefully knowing. When we are negative we tend to bring others down with us. When we are positive, the same thing.


Regarding IHS, from what I remember it wasn't so bad for me. I heard of ppl saying it was a living hell. I didn't corollate two things at the time. People did say it allowed the LBS to always look over his shoulder at what the WAS was doing, but that's up to the person. I guess in reading the boards for a few months and years now, you get to see the magnitude that this happens to so many individuals. I didn't corollate that it would be a living hell if you were still stuck on trying to find reasons why it didnt work or if you were still wanting to make it work. With the help of Sandi and this board, I was able to buy into my marriage is dead early on and I bought into the idea that I was going to change myself. I dont know if you can tell from my posts but at some point, it was about my working out, my goals, me.

So now looking back, considering the stages of grief, bargaining and denial, its safe to say before I got to the boards some of that was alrdy out my system. I dont know if i was at the acceptance stage of grief but i know i believed in the system and that it was working for me to be better. I did believe my marriage was dead.

Oh and I was still optimistic and hopeful. I didn't let that tear me down. It'll get better. Mourn the loss, appreciate what you had. Dont let it mess with your character. Regarding all that other NGS stuff you can work on that in the meantime.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/06/21 08:57 PM
Hi Adam, thanks for your message. Been trying to build up the emotional energy to respond, been in a place of despondency to my situation lately. I get what you are saying,i do tend to avoid my emotions but i will try to embrace and face them more. I realise that i cant avoid it forever and i need to go through the grieving process fully. Honestly think that if she died tragically or something rather than leaving and doing what she was doing it would be easier to deal with from a grieve point of view, but maybe that is just an ego thing.

I have been trying to get used to enjoying my own company again, its a slow process but im getting there slowly. Starting to gym and run more often again after drifting for a while. People are starting to notice a change in me and have mentioned it, i am also starting to get my sense of humour and my old personality back again which i think is a good sign.

I took 100% of the blame for a long time or at least 90%. Maybe because she always blamed me and basically told me its my fault she left, but she did alot wrong as well and i wasnt really happy either. What she is doing and how she left is so like her as well, she always runs away when things get hard or she doesnt want to deal with it anymore. I have my regrets but i dont take all the blame anymore, we could have made it work but she ran away and decided not to try. I probably didnt try hard enough, but i always listened when she said things bothered her and i tried to change my behavior and be better. I did slip up and go back to old ways but whatever i did it never seemed good enough anyway. We both struggled a bit with depression during the relationship and i think my negativity and stress from my studies did take its toll as well.

Well done on coming to the realization so quickly and being able to accept what was happening, i think it takes alot of us alot longer to come to that point. I think its fear and stubborness from my side to refuse to accept the reality of the situation because i literally refused to accept it in my mind, i guess thats denial. I cycle through all the stages constantly, it definitely isnt a linear process. I read a bit of your sitch, will try read it through when i have a bit of time.

Thanks for your advice and encouragement, i know i need to just get to acceptance and to understand that this is an opportunity to literally rewire my brain and become a better man and the person i was meant to be. Its so crazy how we need something like this to happen to make us realise we need to change and actually put the work in. It did break me down and i was very close to spiraling and going into a hole of depression but im not done fighting yet and im goi g to come out of this stronger and better than i have ever been.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/07/21 03:08 PM
Quote
Its so crazy how we need something like this to happen to make us realise we need to change and actually put the work in. It did break me down and i was very close to spiraling and going into a hole of depression but im not done fighting yet and im goi g to come out of this stronger and better than i have ever been.


This is one of the reasons I try to encourage regular posting. Knowing you have others that have experienced your sitch and survived......or they're in the same place as you currently find yourself seems to help. Especially, if you are reaching out to the other newcomers, saying something to encourage them. You aren't alone.

((hugs))
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/10/21 07:58 PM
Thanks Sandi, i read almost everyone's new updates and sitches on the newcomer forum but I'm not really at a place yet mentally where i feel like i can add value or even know how to respond on what others are going through. It does help a bit though to know that im not the only one going through this terrible ordeal.

Quick update from my side: i am struggling to deal a bit lately, been drinking almost everyday, not to the point of getting drunk but its an escape for me and helps me numb my mind and emotions for a while. I know its not healthy but i have used it as a coping mechanism since i was very young to deal with what was going on in my life and i know i need to fix that. Been working out more, went for a jog and swim on the beach on saturday and was starting to feel a little bit like my old self but then got caught up in my thoughts on Sunday again and started spiraling. The last few days i have just got to a point of not having a clue what to do, i am considering looking for a job overseas with my qualifications, but i cant keep thinking something new will make me happy.

Havent spoken to W in almost 3 weeks, its the longest i have ever gone without talking to her, been slipping back into searching her on facebook, etc. (I deleted her from everything a while back).
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/11/21 07:32 PM
Quote
Havent spoken to W in almost 3 weeks, its the longest i have ever gone without talking to her, been slipping back into searching her on facebook, etc. (I deleted her from everything a while back).


Great job at NC!!!

I would think anger could carry you through the first 3 weeks or so, where you delete her SM stuff....... but then you just miss her. You miss the woman you fell in love with. Even though she's broken your heart, you still miss her. frown


(((hugs)))
Posted By: 97Hope Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/12/21 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
...I'm not really at a place yet mentally where i feel like i can add value or even know how to respond on what others are going through. It does help a bit though to know that im not the only one going through this terrible ordeal.


You are not alone. Sometimes reading other sitches, it is so clear what I think they need to do. I don't always post what I think, especially if a vet or others have already said it, but it does help me begin to trust myself more.

It's also easier to see what other's should do, and we can apply that to our own lives.

You can add value to someone just by being present. It's a good time to practice validation and empathy. Not saying you don't have it, just saying don't discount your own value.

Good job on NC. It's hard, but you are doing the best thing you can given the circumstances. Try and remember the R for what it actually was, not the fairy tail. I and many others struggle with this in the beginning. We tend to romanticize the R in hindsight. (I had to write out what I didn't like about my MR). It also centered me and gave me a better picture of what I wanted in any R.

((((Ace))) Keep moving forward!
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/13/21 03:05 PM
Hi Sandi, i did feel the urge once or twice to reach about but decided against it because or how she usually responds. I kept making the mistake for months and it always resulted in her saying something hurtful. In general i dont really feel the urge to reach out anymore, like i have read a few times here the marriage was dead at BD and she isn't the same woman i married. I do miss the girl i married very much, no matter what she has done i still love her.

Thanks Hope. I cant say im at a stage where i could think what others should do in there sitch's but i do agree that hopefully i can feel confident soon to start giving my input and just being present. Im sure there are things i have learnt and am still learning from my sitch that could be of value to someone else. I was reading posts here for 2 or 3 months before i felt confident enough to share my own story, still taking baby steps for now.

It is very tough to do NC but i guess it starts becoming easier when you realise that she doesnt want to hear from you anymore and responds harshly most of the time. I really feel like she doesn't care about me at all anymore, its quite clear from her actions but i still struggle to accept that. You are right that i do tend to focus on the good but there was a lot of bad which was far more than the good. Thinking i should make a list of the good and the bad which will maybe make it easier for me to see the whole marriage for what it was, thanks for the advice.
Posted By: 97Hope Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/13/21 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
It is very tough to do NC but i guess it starts becoming easier when you realise that she doesnt want to hear from you anymore and responds harshly most of the time. I really feel like she doesn't care about me at all anymore, its quite clear from her actions but i still struggle to accept that.


It is tough, I'm sorry you have to do it al all. Something that helped me is saying in my head "To what end?". Whenever I wanted to have that convo with X (or really anyone that just couldn't communicate with me) I would sometimes even have the actual conversation in my mind. How it would REALLY go - not the fantasy that they would 'see the light' and come to their senses....I also posted here a lot with what I wanted to say - a lot of times other posters can see how it would go down, even if our expectations are still high.


Originally Posted by Ace_32
You are right that i do tend to focus on the good but there was a lot of bad which was far more than the good. Thinking i should make a list of the good and the bad which will maybe make it easier for me to see the whole marriage for what it was, thanks for the advice.


I hope it helps. We are here for you. Stay strong!!
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/14/21 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
It is very tough to do NC but i guess it starts becoming easier when you realise that she doesnt want to hear from you anymore and responds harshly most of the time.


That’s right Ace, keep judging her by her actions, in fact I have started doing this with everyone. It’s pretty scary at first because you really have to start taking stock of your life, who is there for you and who you want to keep. My STBXW and I had a group of friends we hung out with regularly. They say they would stay neutral but I rarely get invited to things anymore, and haven’t had one offer of help since I’ve been in quarantine. They have said they’re more upset about the hit to their social life than actually being compassionate about the impending D. F em I say. My true friends have been there like you wouldn’t believe.

Anyway, keep going Ace, sounds like you’re doing ok mate.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/16/21 03:55 PM
Thanks Hope and OB. Been missing WW the last few days but i wont reach out again. I feel the need to sometimes but i know how it will go so i change my mind pretty quickly, like you say Hope i know how it would really go (her ignoring my message or not even reading it most likely). I do still have a bit of denial that she will come to her senses and see what i have to offer, i guess its just fools hope though.

I have been seeing what people have asked on other threads about what the LBS would actually do if WW decided to come back and i have been thinking about it, i honestly dont know what i would do. I still want to make the marriage work and if she showed genuine remorse i might be stupid enough to try again, there is probably less than 1% chance of that happening though.

Thanks OB, im getting there slowly, i have ups and downs. Been jogging and doing weights 3 - 4 times a week for about 2 weeks now, been reading alot and have cut down on the drinking the last few days. Started to feel a bit better about myself in general.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/16/21 06:31 PM
The desire to touch the stove, even though you know you will get burned, is difficult to get over. From my past experience, it is easy to forget how awful it feels to reach out, only got get your hand slapped, rather than never reaching out at all.

Not reaching out feels bad. Reaching out and getting slapped feels worse. But as time goes on that desire to reach out starts to trump how we felt last time we got slapped.

The key to remember is that the clock restarts for a lack of pressure and pursuit every time you reach out and get slapped back. If you removing all pressure and pursuit was required for 6 months for her to start to get curious and come sniffing back around, well every time you reach out (pressure and pursuit) that 6 months goes back to a count of zero and you start all over again.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/16/21 08:18 PM
Quote
I do still have a bit of denial that she will come to her senses and see what i have to offer, i guess its just fools hope though.


I think it is this hope or denial that holds the LBS to the dream that their spouse will suddenly come to their senses and see what you have to offer. Just look at the user names over the years and see how many wrote "hope" in that name. We've had so many to ask if there is hope, and it's hard to tell them otherwise. I do believe there is hope in many cases, but when I see people clinging to the possibility their spouse will somehow suddenly come to their senses and want to work on the MR.......I feel they are clinging more to a dream, b/c it seldom happens the way the LBS envisions. We have many stories to back up how it doesn't happen that way.

I don't actually see a lot of reconciliations, even as much as we did a few years ago, and I think it has to do with the attitudes and mindset of people in our world today. I will spare you and not get off into that subject. But I will say that people have been so influenced by the world's propaganda, that successful R appears less often.......or so it seems.

A lot depends on who that WW really is at the bottom of her soul. If she's going through a rebellious period, where her actions appear totally opposite of the W you've always known her to be, then I tend to think there is more of a chance for her to recover. However, you have to look at her track record. You have to look at her childhood and young adult years. Many times there are extended circumstances that impact a wayward. That's not to say she can't recover, but there are so many who come from a dysfunctional past, and I think it affects how she recovers.

Last but not least, is the fact it takes reality slapping them hard in the face. Hard enough for their fantasy to blow away and they are left with nothing but truth. How many months or years will it take? That's something we don't know, but after being on the board for quite a while, I can tell you it's longer than most newcomers would initially think. I told a newcomer today that it usually takes at least a couple of years, based on what I've observed. One reason I say a couple of years (at least) is to give the LBS a more realistic time, and to stop trying to "do something" that will suddenly snap the WS back to their senses. There are some things you just have to move out of the way and let "life" do it's job. Make sense?

Quote
I have been seeing what people have asked on other threads about what the LBS would actually do if WW decided to come back and i have been thinking about it, i honestly dont know what i would do. I still want to make the marriage work and if she showed genuine remorse i might be stupid enough to try again, there is probably less than 1% chance of that happening though.


There appears to be a few LBS thinking with that viewpoint, but I still see LBH's initially focused on one thing: getting her back. If they think all it takes to reconcile is for her to feel remorse, then LBH's don't fully understand what it's really like in most cases. Remorse is necessary, IMHO, but remorse doesn't automatically solve the issues. Everything about the MR has been tarnished, and a few couples may have some type of "honeymoon" period (I didn't), but soon enough they will have to deal with the issues that plaque the MR, before the W went wayward....and afterwards. And, if she had an affair........they may need professional help in order to get back to a healthy place. Realize that she is very unhealthy, if she should return before getting counseling. Her eyes may have been opened to her fantasy, but it's not a fix-all. Unless she has gone through the affair withdrawals, and has taken the time & steps to "find her former self" before attempting to R, then they aren't likely to just jump back into a lovie-dovie lifestyle without the work.

I recommend LBS's have certain stipulations for the return of a WS. Those stipulations should not be revealed until the WS asks or suggests a R, returning, etc. The reason I say this is due to things I've read, where the LBS can't keep their mouth shut, and want to tell the WS what they will require in order to R. smirk You know the type, right? In the meantime, the WS couldn't care less. Now, stay balanced here and don't wait until they've moved back home and then tell them what you need to reconcile.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/16/21 10:48 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
Thanks Hope and OB. Been missing WW the last few days but i wont reach out again. I feel the need to sometimes but i know how it will go so i change my mind pretty quickly, like you say Hope i know how it would really go (her ignoring my message or not even reading it most likely). I do still have a bit of denial that she will come to her senses and see what i have to offer, i guess its just fools hope though.


Great that you can recognise what the outcome would be, keep telling yourself that. It is ok that you still have that denial about reality, keep doing the right things and this will fade. Remember accepting reality is the best, AND ONLY, way forward.

Originally Posted by Ace_32
I have been seeing what people have asked on other threads about what the LBS would actually do if WW decided to come back and i have been thinking about it, i honestly dont know what i would do. I still want to make the marriage work and if she showed genuine remorse i might be stupid enough to try again, there is probably less than 1% chance of that happening though.


Don't even think about what you'd do, because as you said its probably less than 1% chance of happening. How many other things in your life with this probability do you waste your time considering. If it ever happens, deal with it when it does, until then focus on getting yourself to where you want to be.

Originally Posted by Ace_32
Been jogging and doing weights 3 - 4 times a week for about 2 weeks now, been reading alot and have cut down on the drinking the last few days. Started to feel a bit better about myself in general.


Awesome! Keep this up my man. Also, I see you commented on my thread, when you weren't sure if you had anything to contribute. You did great and I appreciated it, am going to respond now. Keep at it!
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/17/21 04:42 AM
Originally Posted by sandi2
I don't actually see a lot of reconciliations, even as much as we did a few years ago, and I think it has to do with the attitudes and mindset of people in our world today. I will spare you and not get off into that subject. But I will say that people have been so influenced by the world's propaganda, that successful R appears less often.......or so it seems.


Sandi, I am actually interested in your thoughts on this. Reading some of the older threads a while back, I noticed that a lot of posters recommended being their WAS/WS's best friend without expectation. There seemed to be some success with this method. From what I see now, that strategy has been eschewed for a more kick them to the curb and get on with your life, you need respect before attraction type of strategy.

Do you think the change in advice has adapted because of the change in attitudes and mindset of people today as opposed to even 10 years ago? Are the WAS/WS getting more disrespectful? Or is the lack of reconciliations because there has been that change in advice?
Posted By: LH19 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/17/21 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
Sandi, I am actually interested in your thoughts on this. Reading some of the older threads a while back, I noticed that a lot of posters recommended being their WAS/WS's best friend without expectation.

I can't speak for Sandi but why would you be best friends with someone who betrayed you like your W did? You show me one where the BFF way worked and I will show you 99 where it didn't.
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
There seemed to be some success with this method.

Again Bent where is the proof?
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
From what I see now, that strategy has been eschewed for a more kick them to the curb and get on with your life, you need respect before attraction type of strategy.

This is where you are wrong Bent. There are no strategies. The goal is to get to a place where if someone treats you $hitty they are removed from your life permanently.
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
Are the WAS/WS getting more disrespectful?

Yes but I think it is because men have become bigger pu$$ies. I am not exonerating myself. I was too in the beginning. So the bigger the Pu$$y the more disrespectful they get. Read Steve's thread. Read Curtis thread.
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
Or is the lack of reconciliations because there has been that change in advice?

No it's because of what I said above and people are terrible at DB. I guarantee you that in the beginning if the LBS said "get your $hit and get the fuch out of the house" at bomb drop you would see a ton more recons. Like in your sitch Bent you gave your W way too much time to get comfortable in a relationship with OM. Lucky for you that was the best thing that ever happened to you. You just don't know it yet.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/17/21 02:18 PM
Bent, I think being besties with your EX can work, but you have to be willing to play the long game for it to occur. What I mean by that is being besties with your EX will take a longggggggggggggggggggg time. Most LBSs do not have that kind of patience.

Further, you should never be besties with your S while they are walking away from you. It could come later, but not in the midst of your S Ding you. I think this is important because commanding respect during the end of the MR and into D is most important. Sometimes that will mean you have to act in "unfriendly" ways. I quote unfriendly because it is the world's definition of friend that I am juxtaposing against. Most people in modern society do not get the concept of true friendship, and believe that friendship is an enabling relationship. In other words, if you friend were engaged in cheating on their spouse, our society would say that condemning that friend is "unfriendly", when in reality a true friend would tell their friend that were wrong.

So my belief is that it is nearly impossible to be besties with your WAS during the D. After the D, I guess it is possible, but I think there are two criteria for it to be successful:

1) You have to have the patience of Job (the Bible character, not the poster)
2) The EX cannot be involved with an OP (especially remarried)

If you don't have 1, then you will not last very long. I've tried to be BFFs with a woman that I wanted to be romantically involved with. The frustration and effect it has on other potential relationships means that very few people could hang in for very long in that role.

And if 2 is not true, then take what I just said and multiply it by infinity. I cannot think of many things worse in life than being friend with someone you secretly pine for, and having them talk to you about their relationship with somebody else. I think that might even be a form of torture in some cultures.

I agree with LH, but will go further. For every sitch that being besties work, we can show you 9999 where it didn't. I think it has a low probability of working because of 1 and 2 above.
Posted By: Thornton Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/17/21 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
Lucky for you that was the best thing that ever happened to you. You just don't know it yet.


It took me a loooong time to get to this point, but I see it clearly now. I agree with LH, I wouldn't want my ex back ever.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/17/21 05:52 PM
Thanks Steve, i get what you are saying and i definitely dont want to restart the clock and go back to day one again. It has been tough to go this long without talking to her but im sure it will get easier. I wonder how long it will take her to get curious and want to reach out but i guess it doesn't really matter anymore, need to change the way i think about things.

Sandi, i have always kept my hopes up but they are probably at their lowest point the last few weeks. Ive also read statistics about how many couples survive seperations and its not good, even checking the board here its very rare to see a success story. Its all very discouraging, depends on how you look at it though. The 5% or whatever that make it probably didnt think they would either though so you never know if your sitch could be the one where a miracle happens. I also think hope is a good thing, hoping for reconciliation kept me going and as time goes you can start hoping for other good things to happen.

Also agree that the world is changing and people are alot more selfish in general and have unrealistic expectations. Social media also makes people seem happy and like they have amazing lives which makes people start thinking the grass would be greener with someone else. And then the hollywood rom coms etc. as well makes them think that love is supposed to be a certain way and its impossible to live up to those standards. Years is a long time to wait around, thats why i get the advice about GAL and move on. If it happens down the line and we get another chance then great we can see if its something we both want but hanging around waiting and effectively wasting a few years of your life is crazy.

I realise that remorse isnt the only thing but that is the starting point and the bare minimum in my view, also she would need to reach out. I am done telling her that i am still willing to work on this marriage or asking for another chance, she knows that already and doesnt care. I wont initiate R talks again. She went for IC after we tried MC and i honestly dont think it helped her, i think she was very fake in her sessions and the counselor basically just validated her and reinforced her ideas. Think it had alot to do with our split but thats just conjecture in my part. I would definitely have stipulations, not sure what they would be but luckily i have 'years' to figure it out haha.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/17/21 05:55 PM
Hi OnlyBent, thanks for your message and im glad i was able to contribute to your thread a little. I asked that question because i realised i do the same thing and i think most people do, they try to keep themselves busy and that way they dont spend anytime trying to process there own thoughts and feelings. I think its very important to do that.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/17/21 07:17 PM
Quote
I noticed that a lot of posters recommended being their WAS/WS's best friend without expectation.


Without expectation is the problem. At this very moment, I dare say you are thinking this friendship thing could be the route to restore the relationship with your W. That's your motivation, so you will be disappointed over & over again. You'll try to make yourself more available to hang out with her (when she doesn't have anything better) and run to her requests (which could be many). If you try to back off, or refuse to be her errand boy, plumber, or whatever........guess what she does? She pulls out the friendship card and uses it to beat you down. Her viewpoint of "friends" is not the same as yours.

Here's the thing, and I'll speak from the WW view point. The very name of wayward wife should be a strong enough warning for any type of relationship, but for a LBH to be BFF's with her..........is just crazy! She's a user. She'll take advantage of your generosity and use it to her benefit. In the meantime, you are hoping every day her feelings will turn to love......while she has zero romantic feelings or thoughts about you. In her eyes, you are just a nice-guy who can't say "no" to her.

My memory is not what it once was, but at the moment I cannot remember a case on the board where the friendship route worked with a LBH and a WW. I believe MWD promotes friendship if possible, and she had a thank-you note in her DR book from a couple who claimed it worked for them. However, their story was not given, nor was anything said to give the impression there had been an affair. So, if the couple is having problems that doesn't include betrayal, cheating, deceit, etc (like the majority on the board)............maybe it works, IDK. I agree with LH and Steve here. When you have a case of lost respect, how are you going to be real friends with that person? You don't get respect by being a friend.

Quote
Do you think the change in advice has adapted because of the change in attitudes and mindset of people today as opposed to even 10 years ago? Are the WAS/WS getting more disrespectful? Or is the lack of reconciliations because there has been that change in advice?


I don't think the advice has changed, except maybe the "exposure" advice. MWD had to do some housecleaning b/c there were complaints of feeling bullied by certain posters who pushed exposing the spouse's affair. There may have been a broader variety across the board, b/c the threads were moving so fast it was a challenge to keep up. It seemed to have been more people engaging with posting at the time. And, I'll just come out and say........if a person hasn't experienced waywardness themselves, or been married to it, they don't fully grasp the root of the situation. That's what I was seeing. I would see great advice......for a non-wayward case, but it wasn't effective with WW's. I think the problem is lumping everyone into the same classification. The LBH cannot be the softy nice-guy with a wayward W.

When I joined, everyone mostly used the WAS term or MLC. Over time, it really bothered me how everyone was lumped into the same category. Even today, the board monitors will say the same work is required, no matter which category defines the other spouse. While I agree with the general things, 180's, GAL, detach, etc.........I strongly believe whenever there is wayward spouse, a tougher side of love must be applied. I think it's a category all of its own, that can't be thrown in with a WAS. They are apples & oranges. When I read DR, I saw where MWD would advise her version of tough love (although I wonder if some people missed that part), but IMHO, it was the last resort after the LRT, and by then.......it's too late to save the MR. It's more of a self survival mode. Also, bear in mind that the book is speaking to a multitude of readers, where the board speaks to one individual at a time. In other words, we can get more specific about their sitch.

Quote
Originally Posted by sandi2
I don't actually see a lot of reconciliations, even as much as we did a few years ago, and I think it has to do with the attitudes and mindset of people in our world today. I will spare you and not get off into that subject. But I will say that people have been so influenced by the world's propaganda, that successful R appears less often.......or so it seems.



I was speaking about the board, and the general population in real life. I'm going to ramble a bit by hitting a few highlights and speaking in general terms. With every new generation, there is usually some change in attitude and how they view life. I'm old enough to have observed how the attitude of men and women have both changed in the past few decades. I believe it has resulted from the influence of every source of secular media that surrounds us. Movies, magazines, Internet, books, political movements, etc., etc. I'm concerned for the future of marriage & families, based on the sense of entitlement and lack of morals people have these days. Look at our young women that have been influenced negatively by the feminist movement. Look how it's changed men to the point they don't know their role in relationships. They don't know how to be an alpha. They aren't even sure how to recognize disrespect. Women went from burning bras to hating the male gender. When did it become popular to dress and behave like sluts? Where did these attitudes develop? Where will these attitudes take them in the future? Women were lied to, and they bought into it. And men.........well, they did whatever the women told them to do. Men became followers instead of leaders.

I agree with LH and Steve. Cadet gave a very good post about why there are so many nice-guys since WWII. If I can find it, I'll copy & paste. In the meantime, I suspect that's as far as I need to take this conversation.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/17/21 07:29 PM
Here's that post from Cadet about nice guys:


Quote
Why are men NICE GUYS?

Answer:
We are raised mostly by our mothers, have teachers who are mostly woman, may have fears of abandonment, possibly some sort of shame that we are some how responsible for being abandoned.
We were raised in the post Vietnam war era/ World War 2 parents.

I know in my case my father was a "NICE GUY" who was raised by his mother.
So much of what I learned to be a male came from my nice guy father.
So he was a conflict avoidant,co-dependent, enabling personality, so of course was I.
Of course as stated above - mothers and teachers also have some responsibility in this trait.

So I agree that nearly everyone on these boards can fall into some category here.
And of course another question is how do we keep our children and grand children from falling into the same trap?
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/17/21 07:40 PM
No it's because of what I said above and people are terrible at DB. I guarantee you that in the beginning if the LBS said "get your $hit and get the fuch out of the house" at bomb drop you would see a ton more recons. Like in your sitch Bent you gave your W way too much time to get comfortable in a relationship with OM. Lucky for you that was the best thing that ever happened to you. You just don't know it yet.
[/quote]

LH i actually completely agree with what you said here, if i did that in the beginning and went NC from the beginning she probably would have second guessed her decision. And i also tried to nice her back the first few months and was always willing to talk whenever she wanted and was always there for her, basically let her cake eat while she looked for someone else... think with time i will realise it was a good thing, the people that know me best say the same thing.
Posted By: harvey Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/17/21 09:42 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
I wonder how long it will take her to get curious and want to reach out but i guess it doesn't really matter anymore, need to change the way i think about things.


We all wonder this. From my observations and my own sitch, at DB they couldn't care less about what you are doing--especially if an OM is involved. The odds are that they won't reach out, but it does happen--especially if an OM is involved and that relationship doesn't work out. Then again, many just move onto OM2.
Posted By: harvey Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/17/21 09:51 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
Sandi, i have always kept my hopes up but they are probably at their lowest point the last few weeks. Ive also read statistics about how many couples survive seperations and its not good, even checking the board here its very rare to see a success story. Its all very discouraging, depends on how you look at it though. The 5% or whatever that make it probably didnt think they would either though so you never know if your sitch could be the one where a miracle happens. I also think hope is a good thing, hoping for reconciliation kept me going and as time goes you can start hoping for other good things to happen.


Don't get too caught up in the odds. If you feel like standing, then stand. I didn't have the patience. It was more like I didn't have the want to after awhile. I crunched numbers at the beginning of my sitch--because I'm a stats person.

What I've read is that over 50% of divorcees regret it (but I haven't seen it broken down my the leaver and the leavee) and that 10% of people remarry a former spouse. My best guess was that ~40% of leavers regret their decision. Maybe 1/2 those reach out to the former spouse and 1/2 of those reconcile (for the other half the leavee has moved on).
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/17/21 10:13 PM
Quote
I wonder how long it will take her to get curious and want to reach out but i guess it doesn't really matter anymore, need to change the way i think about things.


Her reaching out to you b/c of curiosity is not the goal. What I mean is that her reaching out to you b/c she's curious, often includes her taking your emotional temperature to see how attached you are. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just as long as you don't make anything out of it, and see it as a temp check.

The final goal, is her reaching out due to her remorse.......and HUMILTIY. I don't think a wayward can recover without humility. It's very hard for a wayward to reach that point, b/c they are so full of themselves. You can't be humble until you lose the sense of entitlement and flush all that selfishness down the drain.

The bad thing is that WW's are usually pretty good at acting and manipulation. Combine those skills with the LBH's hopes.........well, you might see how they could have a false start to reconciliation. It happens.

Remember this...........waywardness is a heart condition. The heart becomes cold and hard. If you wonder if she's being genuine, watch her behavior, her speech, and her attitude. If these three consistently match, there's your answer. If she says one thing but her attitude says another........it's not real.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/17/21 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
I wonder how long it will take her to get curious and want to reach out but i guess it doesn't really matter anymore, need to change the way i think about things.


Just assume it will be never Ace, then you'll be fine no matter what.

Originally Posted by Ace_32
I also think hope is a good thing, hoping for reconciliation kept me going and as time goes you can start hoping for other good things to happen.


Don't hope that your life will be amazing, KNOW that it will be amazing no matter what, but you have to make it so.

Originally Posted by Ace_32
Also agree that the world is changing and people are alot more selfish in general and have unrealistic expectations. Social media also makes people seem happy and like they have amazing lives which makes people start thinking the grass would be greener with someone else. And then the hollywood rom coms etc. as well makes them think that love is supposed to be a certain way and its impossible to live up to those standards. Years is a long time to wait around, thats why i get the advice about GAL and move on. If it happens down the line and we get another chance then great we can see if its something we both want but hanging around waiting and effectively wasting a few years of your life is crazy.


Ace, from what I've read and experienced, most guys are pretty rubbish at being husbands first time round, not because they're malicious, just because we don't know any better. Some of us are lucky, yes lucky, that our Ws get fed up and end things. It hurts so much that we make sure we grow and develop so that it never happens to us or our children. Now the W will move on with someone new, and at the start they get the Insta/Social Media/Hollywood rom-com version that they thought that love was supposed to be. If they are lucky to get a man who has fixed his issues and now gets it, then the grass would indeed be greener. More likely, because what guy who gets it would move on another man's W, they will end up with a man who shows his crappy side eventually.

In the meantime, Ace has gone and improved himself and is living an A+ life. How appealing does Ace look now, but most likely, Ace has realised that he likes his new life and is no longer interested. I have heard versions of this story time and again.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/17/21 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
No it's because of what I said above and people are terrible at DB. I guarantee you that in the beginning if the LBS said "get your $hit and get the fuch out of the house" at bomb drop you would see a ton more recons. Like in your sitch Bent you gave your W way too much time to get comfortable in a relationship with OM. Lucky for you that was the best thing that ever happened to you. You just don't know it yet.


LH i actually completely agree with what you said here, if i did that in the beginning and went NC from the beginning she probably would have second guessed her decision. And i also tried to nice her back the first few months and was always willing to talk whenever she wanted and was always there for her, basically let her cake eat while she looked for someone else... think with time i will realise it was a good thing, the people that know me best say the same thing.[/quote]

I am in complete agreement here too. Ace, I am a bit further ahead than you and I am seeing that it is a good thing, I still have my moments but getting there. I have also had close friends say the same thing.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/18/21 07:19 PM
Thanks for your responses Harvey, Sandi and OnlyBent. I dont have the energy to respond to everything right now but i just wanted to say im grateful for finding this board. It really does help to get opinions from people have been through similar things and to interact with like minded people. I really appreciate all you guys that take some of your time and try help out, its much appreciated and helps get a different perspective.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/18/21 07:21 PM
Thanks for your responses Harvey, Sandi and OnlyBent. I dont have the energy to respond to everything right now but i just wanted to say im grateful for finding this board. It really does help to get opinions from people have been through similar things and to interact with like minded people. I really appreciate all you guys that take some of your time and try help out, its much appreciated and helps get a different perspective.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/19/21 10:24 PM
I haven't spoken to WW in a month basically since i confronted her about seeing my friemd , but i really miss her right now and have had a few drinks. Im not going to message her, was very close to though.

This is honestly the worst feeling in the world and i wouldnt even wish this on my enemy.
Posted By: Thornton Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/20/21 01:52 AM
Good call on not texting her. You would have regretted it.

One thing helped me when I was in the thick of it was the stop sign technique.

When you start thinking about her, imagine a stop sign in your mind. And keep your focus on that stop sign and verbally say the word “stop”.

It takes practice to get good at it. Your thoughts, at first, will keep reverting back to your W. Just go back to the stop sign technique.

Hang in there man. I promise it gets better with time.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/21/21 02:43 PM
Quote
I haven't spoken to WW in a month basically since i confronted her about seeing my friemd , but i really miss her right now and have had a few drinks. Im not going to message her, was very close to though.

This is honestly the worst feeling in the world and i wouldnt even wish this on my enemy.


Going an entire month of NC is great!

It's okay for you to miss the person you married. I want you to understand that you are judged for loving your W. She didn't fall out of love with you overnight, and you will probably always have feelings for the W she use to be. That's okay. Unfortunately, this is part of going through the breakup. It stinks, but you have to feel it and deal with it.

I suppose most people have something they turn to in times of emotional pain. Usually, it's not good for us. If your resolve lowers when you drink, you may need to find some other method of getting through that period. Just don't turn to drugs or things of that nature. ((hugs))

The board has a few LBH's who have been around for years. They are here to help others, and let them know that their life will definitely improve. LH, Another Stander, & Ready are divorced, but they all talk about their lives improving, in spite of not saving their M's. Maybe reading their posts during down times would encourage you.
Posted By: Drh2001 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/21/21 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by Thornton
Good call on not texting her. You would have regretted it.

One thing helped me when I was in the thick of it was the stop sign technique.

When you start thinking about her, imagine a stop sign in your mind. And keep your focus on that stop sign and verbally say the word “stop”.

It takes practice to get good at it. Your thoughts, at first, will keep reverting back to your W. Just go back to the stop sign technique.

Hang in there man. I promise it gets better with time.



I shall remember this Thornton. I still think about WW. I do miss her. I miss what used to be her. Now a nasty wayward has taken her place. Remembering who she has become is that stop sign. It's such a terrible way to end a marriage.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/23/21 11:55 AM
Hi Thornton, you are right i would have regretted it.

I have read about the stop sign technique before, im trying to implement it the last few days after your message reminded me of it. Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

Thanks Sandi, i know it didnt happen overnight. i am still really struggling to accept how she turned on me the way she did and doesnt seem to care at all, i guess pretty much everyone that goes through this will question why it is all happening. I have read through a few of their threads, there is alot more to go through still.

I saw your message about the posts being alot less than usual lately, i have noticed that too. Im a bit despondent the last few days, almost at the point of thinking why bother with trying anymore she obviously doesnt care and nothing changes. Dont think she even cares how long its been since we spoke or how im doing. I still havent received divorce papers, as far as i knew she was going to file about a month ago but nothing yet and not a word from her. Not sure if she has filed yet or not. Feeling very anxious lately and obsessing about what i have lost and what could have been.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/23/21 12:06 PM
But you have to accept it Ace, because what choice did you have?

I know it’s not easy, but focus on ways to make Ace more awesome.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/23/21 12:54 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
Feeling very anxious lately and obsessing about what i have lost and what could have been.

So Ace this is why are you are suffering so much. You are living in a fantasy world just like your Stbxw. What have you lost? A woman who has cheated on you more then once including with your BF. What could have been? More years of her lying, cheating and not giving to $hits about your feelings.

I know this is tough but you are young and have no kids so consider that a blessing. You need to get stronger and learn to love yourself and know your value. It will take some time but you will bounce back from this and thrive. Enjoy the journey and you will get to your destination.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/23/21 04:46 PM
Hi OB, true i dont have a choice but to accept it. I know this is my new reality and my new normal but i tend to live in the past too much and feel sorry for myself which isnt doing me any good, need to just start pulling myself out of this one step at a time. Been keeping up with my exercise and reading, havent had too much social interaction other than at work. I moved to a new coastal town in SA that is very quiet at the beginning of Jan, trying to use the quiet to figure myself out though and learn to be ok on my own. I think i am getting there but its a slow process.

Thanks LH for a bit of a wake up call, i have been overthinking and looking at things with rose coloured glasses. Its true, things weren't as good as i try to make myself believe. I lost my whole life i built for the last few years and the most important person in my world, i do realise that it wasnt a healthy situation though and in the long run hopefully this will all make sense and i will find real happiness. Its just difficult to see the light at the moment but thanks for the encouragement.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/23/21 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
Hi Thornton, you are right i would have regretted it.

I have read about the stop sign technique before, im trying to implement it the last few days after your message reminded me of it. Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

Thanks Sandi, i know it didnt happen overnight. i am still really struggling to accept how she turned on me the way she did and doesnt seem to care at all, i guess pretty much everyone that goes through this will question why it is all happening. I have read through a few of their threads, there is alot more to go through still.

I saw your message about the posts being alot less than usual lately, i have noticed that too. Im a bit despondent the last few days, almost at the point of thinking why bother with trying anymore she obviously doesnt care and nothing changes. Dont think she even cares how long its been since we spoke or how im doing. I still havent received divorce papers, as far as i knew she was going to file about a month ago but nothing yet and not a word from her. Not sure if she has filed yet or not. Feeling very anxious lately and obsessing about what i have lost and what could have been.

FYI most states you can tell online. There are website for court filings, usually criminal, but will show civil suits as well.

It is normal to experience what you are feeling right now. Lean on family and friends. Tell yourself several times a day that it is out of your hands, remind yourself constantly that today could be the last day of your marriage. Of course, all of these things were true before BD as well. This is indeed reality for all of us.

Continue to detach from her.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/23/21 05:38 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
I haven't spoken to WW in a month basically since i confronted her about seeing my friemd , but i really miss her right now and have had a few drinks. Im not going to message her, was very close to though.

This is honestly the worst feeling in the world and i wouldnt even wish this on my enemy.

In the first 2 months of my sitch, I knew if I drank that I would be texting or calling my W, so I didn't do it. Until your are to that point, don't drink IMO. Know your strengths and know your weaknesses. Make plans to best utilize your strengths and cover each weakness. Do this in sports, business, relationships.

Eventually I got a little better and went out drinking with friends and did social things. I don't know what things are like in your area, but if you can get out and socialize it would be good. Interact with women, rebuild your confidence, have some fun. Learn how to have good, attractive posture in public. When I realized there were women out there who wanted me and were interested in me it was a big self esteem boost. I promise you, there are women out there who would treat you better than your WW is. Once you get through your attachment this will be more obvious.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 02/24/21 04:40 PM
Hi ovrrnbw, im not in the states so im not aware of a way to check in my country. But i guess it doesnt actually matter, it just makes the limbo last a bit longer. Its not like i think she is having second thought or anything, i know it is a 99% certainty that the divorce will be finalised soon. I feel mostly detached but there are still times when i think about her too much. My family have really been there for me through this.

I did the same in the first few months, messaging her when i had drank bit i havent done it in over a month now. Drinking a little less than usual i think as well. Very quiet area im in at the moment, not too many young people but i think its good for me to go out by myself and exercise and do my own thing while i build my confidence and figure things out. I have already noticed quite a big change in my physique from gym which is giving me more confidence. I know there are women who would be more compatible and treat my better, when the time is right i will be ready and im really looking forward to that.

Just wanted to chime in regarding Sandi's thread about less activity on the forum, in my opinion when i first found the site i was looking for a way to save my marriage but the longer i read peoples sitches the more i lost hope of reconciliation. When i eventually started posting i think i still had a bit of hope left and was looking for advice about R or just to come to terms with moving on and that everything will be ok. It opened my eyes a bit more to have responses and advice regarding my own sitch rather than just reading about people you had never met. I think maybe people give up on the board and posting once they lose hope, i have almost stopped posting and checking the board a few times but i feel like it helps me to be here.

Something i heard the other day that i thought was quite cool: "turn your test into your testimony". The way we get through these tests in our life determine how we grow and who we become and we can use our story to help other people who are going through a similar thing in the future. The veterans here are great examples of this and always trying to help people though these things because they have experienced it. I hope one day i can use this pain to help others too.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Trying to heal from WW - 03/02/21 06:14 AM
Hey Ace, what's the latest mate?
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 03/02/21 08:40 AM
Hi OnlyBent, thanks for checking in. Honestly not too much to report on my side, still haven't heard from WW in over a month and havent contacted her. Also no divorce papers yet.

Been keeping up to date with my podcasts and exercising, slacking a little on the reading and still leaning on my crutches too much. Also not really meeting new people as i mostly just do my own thing and the area i am in is very seasonal and quiet at the moment.

Took a look at your latest update, it sounds like you are doing nicely and its great that you are getting your confidence back. Anniversaries are always tough, i haven't gotten to mine yet but i can imagine it will be quite emotional when it does happen. It is just another day, but it will be difficult not to think back on memories and its also a reminder of what has happened and been lost.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Trying to heal from WW - 03/02/21 02:12 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
Hi OnlyBent, thanks for checking in. Honestly not too much to report on my side, still haven't heard from WW in over a month and havent contacted her. Also no divorce papers yet.

Been keeping up to date with my podcasts and exercising, slacking a little on the reading and still leaning on my crutches too much. Also not really meeting new people as i mostly just do my own thing and the area i am in is very seasonal and quiet at the moment.

Took a look at your latest update, it sounds like you are doing nicely and its great that you are getting your confidence back. Anniversaries are always tough, i haven't gotten to mine yet but i can imagine it will be quite emotional when it does happen. It is just another day, but it will be difficult not to think back on memories and its also a reminder of what has happened and been lost.


Ace, this is a fantastic update. Good job on remaining NC, that is your best plan of action at the moment. And good job focusing on you in this update. I know GAL can seem like a struggle at times, but stick with it. GAL doesn't always mean hanging out with others, etc. It can also be a long drive listening to your favorite album! Or going to some form of entertainment, alone! I remember I had a buddy that would go to the movies alone back when we were young, and I would think "that has to be awful". The first time I went to a movie alone I absolutely loved it! So get creative.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 03/03/21 03:00 AM
Ace_32,

Sorry to hear about your sitch. I'll repeat what others said earlier, but the good news is you don't have kids with her. That'll make detaching and moving on much easier. Those of us with kids (especially young ones) have much more complicated situations and often times have to interact several times a week which doesn't help. Not that I'd ever take back my children, but at this point certainly wish they weren't from my W!

Go out, improve yourself, and live life. You're fairly young compared to many on this board. All the time in the world to meet new people (friends or more) and enjoy yourself. Maybe she'll come crawling back and maybe she won't...either way you can be happy.

Btw, some great quotes in your thread...

Originally Posted by OnlyBent
as I describe it, its like skating on ice and everything I did wrong in my STBXW's eyes thinned the ice, yet nothing I did could ever thicken it again. The ice was always doomed to crack...

Originally Posted by CWarrior
If you wanted a bank teller to give you $100 for free, they'd say no, and they wouldn't fight.

Originally Posted by LH19
Lucky for you that was the best thing that ever happened to you. You just don't know it yet.

Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Trying to heal from WW - 03/03/21 11:17 AM
All you can do is your best mate, and it sounds like it’s not too bad. Keep at it! How’s SA treating you? You a footy fan at all?
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 03/03/21 12:08 PM
Thanks for the responses.

SteveLW, i actually did go to the movies by myself years ago before i met stbxw and i didnt mind it that much. Have gone for dinner here alone and for a drink by myslef once or twice. Dont have anything to say to her really anymore except to ask if she has filed but there is no point in contacting her for that now, just using the time i have left being married to work on myself. I dont want to date or see other woman until the divorce is final but i probably need more time before im ready for that anyway.

BL42 yeah im definitely glad we didnt have any kids, i was at the point in my life where i was starting to want to have kids. I know im still young and there is alot of time left to figure things out and move on, things will start to come right it just takes time to move forward from this. I have no idea what the future holds, but everything will work out the way it is meant to and maybe one day i will realise that this is the best thing that ever happened to me but im not at that point yet.

OnlyBent i agree just got to focus on what i can control and do my best each day, there is nothing else to do at this point. SA is good, staying in one of the mowt beautiful places in the country so not too bad. Considering starting to learn how to surf again soon. You in Aus hey? I watch english pl and i am a Man Utd fan, and you?
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 03/03/21 05:53 PM
WW just message me asking if im busy then tried to call me, i didnt respond or answer. Im having a braai with some family at the moment. Not sure what she wants but i doubt its anything good after not hearing from her in almost 6 weeks.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 03/03/21 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
WW just message me asking if im busy then tried to call me, i didnt respond or answer. Im having a braai with some family at the moment. Not sure what she wants but i doubt its anything good after not hearing from her in almost 6 weeks.

Have her send you an email with the information so you can digest it and ignore it / respond rationally without hearing it off the cuff and reacting with emotions.
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 03/04/21 05:03 PM
Hi BL42, so i ignored her last night but she messaged me this morning asking if she could call me after work and i said its fine. Spoke to her now, was weird to be honest.

She mentioned she got the divorce papers emailed to her now and if i would like to go through them together, i said no im fine whats the point. She said she is heartbroken and misses me and loves me and thinks about me everyday and she doesn't contact me because she doesnt want to make it harder for me. She also admitted some fault on her part for the breakdown of our marriage and said she hasnt moved on yet either and she doesnt have anyone in her life and is lonely. Her admitting fault on her part was quite a shock to me and she also mentioned she has been thinking of the good times lately, but she still thinks the space apart if for the best for us. I believe less than half of what she says,

I think she asked about going through the divorce papers together because she doesnt want to deal with it alone and she mentioned how much it is costing her and she is happy to cover it, i said this isnt my choice and i am not willing to help with the divorce but i will try be there for her if i can (i know thats a mistake, i just felt empathy for her). She cried pretty much the whole call of about 20 min, i didnt break once and i feel alot more detached than i did a few months ago.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 03/04/21 05:38 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
She mentioned she got the divorce papers emailed to her now and if i would like to go through them together, i said no im fine whats the point.

Just send them to me when you complete them


Originally Posted by Ace_32
She said she is heartbroken and misses me and loves me and thinks about me everyday and she doesn't contact me because she doesnt want to make it harder for me. She also admitted some fault on her part for the breakdown of our marriage and said she hasnt moved on yet either and she doesnt have anyone in her life and is lonely. Her admitting fault on her part was quite a shock to me and she also mentioned she has been thinking of the good times lately, but she still thinks the space apart if for the best for us. I believe less than half of what she says,

Isn't she with your best friend or should I say your ex best friend?
Originally Posted by Ace_32
I think she asked about going through the divorce papers together because she doesnt want to deal with it alone

Ding ding ding we have a winner
Originally Posted by Ace_32
but i will try be there for her if i can (i know thats a mistake, i just felt empathy for her).

Big mistake. That's your NGS
Originally Posted by Ace_32
She cried pretty much the whole call of about 20 min.

guilt
Originally Posted by Ace_32
i didnt break once and i feel alot more detached than i did a few months ago.

Good job. You are making progress!
Posted By: Ace_32 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 03/04/21 06:19 PM
Thanks LH, i did tell her to send me the divorce papers and i said i will go through them on the weekend. Will do that, sign and send back. The ball is is her court and i have no control,the first part of the call felt like she was trying to see how my situation is and if things are good here. Definitely felt like a temp check, i told her that im trying to move on and i have accepted her decision.

As far as i know she is seeing a friend of mine, but neither of them admitted it. He wasnt my best friend but was a close friend for about 2 years that we both worked with. I basically wrote both of them off when i suspected it, and me and him will most likely have more than words if i ever see him again.

I dont know why i feel empathy, i know all she has been through and i wasn't always there for her the way i should have. I actually used to think i was a bit of a sociopath and i didnt think i felt empathy for other people, but maybe that is something people like her have made me believe about myself.

It may be guilt but i think its more that she doesnt want to deal with all the admin and consequences of her decisions, i honestly dont know if she can feel true remorse or guilt for her actions except for how it affects her life. Maybe thats a bit if a cynical view but i have hardly ever seen her show true remorse for her actions.

Thanks, i definitely feel less than i used to and its progress. Think i have finally let go of my sense of control, which i never had but i thought i did to an extent.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 03/04/21 07:00 PM
Ace,

I know it stinks what you are going through but you are really young and are lucky not to have kids with her. You do not want to go through this when you are in your 40s with two or three kids. Consider it a gift that she showed you who she really is now because she is unlikely to change. Not impossible but improbable.

Good days are ahead of you!
Posted By: BL42 Re: Trying to heal from WW - 03/04/21 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by Ace_32
She said she is heartbroken and misses me and loves me and thinks about me everyday and she doesn't contact me because she doesnt want to make it harder for me.

...yet she's filing for divorce. Makes a lot of sense. Glad you didn't break to much but you don't need to hear that at all, nor help her through the divorce or ease her pain/guilt about the process. Have her email you.

Originally Posted by Ace_32
said she hasnt moved on yet either and she doesnt have anyone in her life and is lonely.

Originally Posted by Ace_32
As far as i know she is seeing a friend of mine, but neither of them admitted it.

Sounds like some major BS to me. If you have some reason to believe or even just your gut tells you it's so, chances are it is.

Originally Posted by LH19
it stinks what you are going through but you are really young and are lucky not to have kids with her. You do not want to go through this when you are in your 40s with two or three kids. Consider it a gift that she showed you who she really is now because she is unlikely to change. Not impossible but improbable.

Indeed! Very lucky to find out this earlier and without kids. It'll save you a lot of grief going forward. You'll get through this!
Posted By: job Re: Trying to heal from WW - 03/04/21 08:31 PM
New Thread:

Trying to heal from WW - part 2
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