Hi everyone, i am a new poster after finding these forums just into the new year. i have been reading most of what i can as a guest? i feel that it has already helped me in my sitch, which i am sure is not much different to most LBS.
in September 2020 i was asked to meet my W for lunch, she asked if i would meet her in the car - which i did. we drove for 10 mins and then stopped in a layby, she then proceeded to tell me that ILYBANILWY and didnt want to be with me anymore or even married to me anymore and wanted SPACE.she would move out and get a flat with our D15, this is where i made my first mistakes - i pleaded and cried not for her to go? i dropped her back to work. when she came home that night i continued my pleading, i went to be that night and cried my eyes out. she continue to be in the MBR although we didnt have any intimacy.Sept,Oct & Nov we continue to live together as a family and do thing as you would expect although i promised to give her at least a whole day to herself over the weekends! so i made myself scarce usually on the Saturday and then Sunday as a family outing. at this point i thought we were getting on better than we had for the last 9 months and that we would be fine.Dec 8th went to bed as normal - lent over to kiss her goodnight and this is when she announced that she had been sleeping with her coworker that she shares an office with, and had been since early Oct. her head never left the pillow while telling me this? at this point i stormed out of the house and went to speak to my MIL, i came back about 3 hours later and decided to sleep on the Sofa and the 2 hours later with no sleep decided that i have done nothing wrong - why should i sleep on the Sofa, so went back to the MBR - she didnt get up.
this was the Tuesday night - she moved in with her mother on the Sunday after - where she has been ever since. although she stays at the PA flat on a regular basis or so i am led to believe! she lost her job with the PA and has now got another one in a different town 12 miles away! my D16 now is still angry with her mother and refuses to see her.
we did have her to our house on Xmas day, but i have had no direct contact with her since, but made the mistake of talking to her best friend 2 weeks ago, which i now regret - because i was stupid enough to think we were talking as friends, but lesson learned and all that!
i have gone dark after that episode and will not be talking to her friend or her mother about our sitch and also trying detachment from her - because i have been guilt of Pursuit (me) and she is distancing, which i will not be following up. its not until i read these boards that i realised what i was doing was pushing her further away!
i also believe she is in mlc as it like an alien has taken over her body/mind, her actions are completely against her values. we have yet to have a R talk although she has told her friend that she cannot and will not be coming back to me!
i am now having counselling to overcome depression and anxiety which was brought on after Sept, i am also on depression tablets.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thanks, i have bought the DR book and i am about 100 pages into it!
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Welcome Mark,
You have come to the right place.
You will soon realise that your sitch is not unique.. Most people here have a similar story.
Re the MLC comment. We all come here looking for a "solution" - "the answer" - "the magic bullet"..
"How can we change this and get it back to 2 years ago" etc etc etc
You seem to be making good progress.. Yes you made mistakes like pleading - i'm guessing most LBS do..
You cannot fix her, her MLC etc .. Focus on you. Drop the rope.
If you don't, it will eat you up.
Do you work out ? if yes, work out harder.. If not, Start
Focus on you and your daughter - You and your daughter - you and your daughter !!!
These are things you can control.
You are also lucky that your Daughter is nearly an adult - but she will still be hurting ! - be her rock.. be positive
Hey Mark I am sorry you are here bu you came to the right place.
You basically need to withdraw support -- emotional support and financial support to the degree possible. If she makes a mess, she needs to clean it up. You do not step in and enable her in any way.
You go out and "get a life" and you don't feel *any* responsibility to explain or justify what you're doing, you just do it.
Very important: You are not mean, punishing, or passive aggressive. You don't make nasty comments. You don't go out of your way to inconvenience her, you simply act as if you are completely uninterested and unaffected by her.
It’s a huge comfort to know that she has you to fall back on if things go badly for her. You need to pull that safety net away entirely.
She needs to fully believe that you will not be there for her if she chooses to return, and that if she wants to come back she's going to have to work for it.
You can't tell her that, she'll never believe it. You have to show her that beyond a doubt with your actions.
At the same time, you have to build a life for yourself that anyone would want to be a part of, full of fun activities, outside interests, and engaging friends. If you can do both of those things -- completely emotionally uncouple from her (fake it until you make it) and build an amazing life for yourself, she'll clamor to come back and if she doesn't you won't care. That's your only winning path out of where you are, but getting there is going to be uncomfortable, and more painful than you feel today, because it will go against your white knight nature.
You cannot placate her, you cannot "prove your love" through acts of giving and support.
You also cannot push her away by withdrawing support.
She has chosen her course of action, and as of right now, nothing you do will impact it.
Your shortest path back together is to go the opposite direction.
Hi everyone, i am a new poster after finding these forums just into the new year. i have been reading most of what i can as a guest? i feel that it has already helped me in my sitch, which i am sure is not much different to most LBS.
in September 2020 i was asked to meet my W for lunch, she asked if i would meet her in the car - which i did. we drove for 10 mins and then stopped in a layby, she then proceeded to tell me that ILYBANILWY and didnt want to be with me anymore or even married to me anymore and wanted SPACE.she would move out and get a flat with our D15, this is where i made my first mistakes - i pleaded and cried not for her to go? i dropped her back to work. when she came home that night i continued my pleading, i went to be that night and cried my eyes out. she continue to be in the MBR although we didnt have any intimacy.Sept,Oct & Nov we continue to live together as a family and do thing as you would expect although i promised to give her at least a whole day to herself over the weekends! so i made myself scarce usually on the Saturday and then Sunday as a family outing. at this point i thought we were getting on better than we had for the last 9 months and that we would be fine.Dec 8th went to bed as normal - lent over to kiss her goodnight and this is when she announced that she had been sleeping with her coworker that she shares an office with, and had been since early Oct. her head never left the pillow while telling me this? at this point i stormed out of the house and went to speak to my MIL, i came back about 3 hours later and decided to sleep on the Sofa and the 2 hours later with no sleep decided that i have done nothing wrong - why should i sleep on the Sofa, so went back to the MBR - she didnt get up.
this was the Tuesday night - she moved in with her mother on the Sunday after - where she has been ever since. although she stays at the PA flat on a regular basis or so i am led to believe! she lost her job with the PA and has now got another one in a different town 12 miles away! my D16 now is still angry with her mother and refuses to see her.
we did have her to our house on Xmas day, but i have had no direct contact with her since, but made the mistake of talking to her best friend 2 weeks ago, which i now regret - because i was stupid enough to think we were talking as friends, but lesson learned and all that!
i have gone dark after that episode and will not be talking to her friend or her mother about our sitch and also trying detachment from her - because i have been guilt of Pursuit (me) and she is distancing, which i will not be following up. its not until i read these boards that i realised what i was doing was pushing her further away!
i also believe she is in mlc as it like an alien has taken over her body/mind, her actions are completely against her values. we have yet to have a R talk although she has told her friend that she cannot and will not be coming back to me!
i am now having counselling to overcome depression and anxiety which was brought on after Sept, i am also on depression tablets.
You're absolutely right, this is a very common tale, unfortunately. And I wouldn't beat yourself up for the mistakes you've made so far because, well, most of us are not prepared to deal with this situation. Very few LBSs know about DBing until they've already made plenty of mistakes. And even after knowing DB, it continues to be difficult not to slip up now and again and make mistakes.
However, most of the heavy lifting is done in your sitch. It is ideal for a WAS in a PA to be out of the house, certainly out of the MBR. Now you just need to stay true to your plan on going dark. Get DR and read it as Cadet suggests. Study the Last Resort Technique. In fact, I still see you hoping she will come back to you. Right now you shouldn't even be interested in her returning because it is impossible to reconcile while a 3rd party is still in the picture.
You have no control over her choices, whether they are being caused by a MLC or not. All you can do is move forward, focus on you. Being in IC is a great step! Congratulations! It is amazing how many LBSs resist IC, so you are commended for seeking that help already. Keep working on you to become the best you can be. Go out and GAL! Like a madman. The LBSs that struggle the most are the ones that sit home and stew on their misery. Be busy. I know there is a pandemic, but there are still plenty of GAL opportunities for those that are motivated. And finally, keep working on detachment. You described her as acting as an alien has taken over her mind/body. Then treat her that way, like an alien. Like someone you don't even know. Read sandi's rules, and start working on applying them.
mark, I am very sorry you are going through this. These situations are the worst, but you are through the worst of it already. If you focus on yourself (and your D16, be the best dad you can be!), you can get through this better and stronger, no matter what your cheating W decides.
Welcome,
Hi everyone, i am a new poster after finding these forums just into the new year. i have been reading most of what i can as a guest? i feel that it has already helped me in my sitch, which I am sure is not much different to most LBS.
I am glad you can see you are experiencing things similar to what we have. This puts you way ahead of most that show up here.
Read as many of these as you can:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2910892There are 13 threads of quotes, so it does take some time.
I wish you well.
Things that she has said during the last 9 months
June 20: i have feelings for the OM, but it wont come to anything i will deal with it! also said the same to her best friend
June 20: stop worrying i have dealt with your problem! (meaning the OM)
Aug 20: i dont go to lunch with him anymore.so you have nothing to concern yourself with!
Sept 20 : early in the month - she told me maybe we have to have an open marriage? what do you think.when i said no chance i could never put up with that, she said she didn't want one anyway she was joking.
Oct 20: she told my daughter that she has not loved me for the last 2 years! whether this is true or not i cant say, she was still telling me she loved me - perhaps it was just words to stop me being suspicious
we had a week holiday in Dec 2019 in Rome just me and the W, it never felt that she was distant from me at that point and we had a really good time and felt we were still a real couple! she needs an oscar for acting if she was hiding it because it felt real!
either i have been really gullible or she wasn't intending to take the other man to a PA in August, but had changed her mind in Sept
One of the first rules of DBing: Believe nothing she says.
My W had an EA, not a PA. She had exchanged nude pictures with the OM. I found the messages. I found the pictures. She still denied he was more than a friend. Even in the face of evidence!
They will say whatever they feel suits them at any given moment. Even her admission the night she told you about the PA was self-serving. She was feeling guilty sleeping in the same bed with you while sleeping with the OM. In order to ease that guilt she came clean.
BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS, and only half of what she does. Have you read sandi's rules?
Me and XW got married while she was in EA with OM. That felt real too
I was an ignorant idiot at the time (with regards to OM) , but it felt real and I still believe, though I don’t understand how, she felt that way too.
Read as much as you can. Be a rock for your Daughter!!!!!!!!
The advice given here already is gold.
Read it carefully and ask questions.
We may be harsh from time to time, but we are here to help.
Wow Mumin, you got married whist she was in EA, that blows my mind. That's not me judging you, I understand how real things can feel, sorry you had to go through that.
Markw, just to add to Steve85 and Mumin, my STBXW and I bought two houses, a car and renovated a kitchen together right before she moved out.
Thanks for the helpful advice so far? i can already see that i have come to the right place for answers/help
i have read sandi's rules and can see that they make great sense and will be applying as much of them as i can, if not all of them.
i have been dark for 2 weeks now, to not only WW but also to her friend (see 1st post) and also to MIL.
I have had MIL ask a couple of times by text if i am OK and my reply has been sweet and to the point.
My Daughter is in constant text with her grandmother, although i have asked her not to talk about me to her!
I am currently reading the detachment thread and will be following that as well.
i will continue my quest to be a better man for mine and my daughters benefit.
Wow Mumin, you got married whist she was in EA, that blows my mind. That's not me judging you, I understand how real things can feel, sorry you had to go through that.
Markw, just to add to Steve85 and Mumin, my STBXW and I bought two houses, a car and renovated a kitchen together right before she moved out.
Yeah I can see now how it sounds.
We should never have gotten married. She wasn’t being honest with me or herself and I was blind from love, NGS and the wrong views of a marriage/relationship.
oh i do wish i had found DB sooner - like 12 to 15 months ago!
if i had been looking i would have been wiser to what was happening and could have altered what i was doing towards my WAW, i pursued while she was distancing without me knowing that i was adding to her distance!
whether it would have stopped her PA i do not know, but i would have hopefully lessened the pain for me and my daughter! although i have read on here that we need to go through the pain to wake us up from the comfortable existence we have gotten into! to help us be who we really are!
i know hindsight is a wonderful tool? but i think that the help on these boards is as close to hindsight as any of us can get.
keep up the good work
Yes!! Help here is gold, if you follow the advice. I like the way you phrased that - "As close to hindsight as you will find".
The people who get stuck are those who hear the advice and believe that they are the exception.
Hi Mark, you said you've been reading posts for a while now, so you may have already seen the one below. I hope it may give you some direction.
****************************************************************************************
Plan of Action for the Husband with a Wayward Wife
Following the initial bomb drop or discovery of an affair, you will be highly stressed and emotionally vulnerable. You will be in a state of reaction for a period of time, which places your decisions and behavior at risk. This emotional state can leave you experiencing waves of various feelings and moods. The natural reaction is usually to secure the relationship ASAP. However, nothing will immediately result in your favor until you can reach stability and have clarity in your own head.
I. Accept what you cannot control or change.
A. Accept that you cannot control your wife’s feelings, decisions, or actions.
B. Accept the fact that the bomb was not your wayward wife’s way of warning you that the marriage was in trouble. She was not trying to wake you in order to work on the marriage. It was her way of telling you it is too late and she is done with it. Do not act upon your urges to plead with her for another chance. Do not try to prove how much you love her. This is not the time. She doesn’t want it and will reject it.
C. Accept that no matter how badly you wish to correct your faults in the marriage and only want a chance to prove yourself as a better husband, she has moved past that point.
D. Accept the painful fact that your WW does not want to work on the MR. She does not feel in love with you, and is not the same person you married.
E. Accept that your WW is not going to snap back into the wife and mother that she was in the past. This is not going to be a short run. She has to go through a process, and there is no snapping back into normality.
F. Accept that you will not be able to control the lives of your children when they are with her. You will not be able to prevent her from introducing them to whomever she wishes, including her affair partner.
G. Accept the fact that you are the only person you can control.
II. Regain mental stability and clarity.
A. Let go of the fear of upsetting her. She has expressed her loss of happiness and love, and is considering a separation or divorce. At this point, she has fired you as her husband. Begin thinking of your WW and yourself as two entities.
B. Break your habit of rescuing her. It is not your responsibility to make her happy or fix things for her. Allow her to deal with consequences of her behavior and decisions. Stop putting forth effort to be her husband, in the practical sense.
C. Do not lie to cover up for her. This is her mess and her responsibility to clean it up. She will have to deal with the fallout without you recuing her.
D. Let go of your habit of over explaining or giving an account to your wife.
E. Do not make any rash decisions. Whatever decisions you are thinking about, run it by the DB board or your confidant, to get an unbiased opinion. You are vulnerable to your emotions.
F. Do not be concerned about what she thinks of you or your decisions/actions during this period. Whenever you catch yourself worrying what she thinks of your actions or reactions, remember your goal is to get your mind and emotions to a place of stability and clarity. As long as you are focused on what she thinks or feels, you aren’t focused on your goal.
III. Proactive steps
A. Separate yourself from the emotional drama of the WW. Put space between you and your WW. Do not engage in relationship discussions. Don’t try to secure the relationship by getting a commitment from your W. During this period, do not make any promises or agree to any changes that will directly affect your future. Do not talk about your feelings for her, or tell her you don’t want a D and how committed you are to saving the M.
B. Follow the 37 rules that are pertinent to your situation.
C. Focus on self healing, rather than relationship healing. Gather reading material, confide in someone who is professionally bound to confidentiality, meditate, take alone time outside with nature, listen to motivational tapes, post on the DB board, and listen to music that energizes you. Socialize with positive people, and those who honestly love you. Don’t seek communication, solace, or advice with her circle of friends or relatives. Stay off Face Book and other social media types. Take exceptional care of your physical wellness. It is not a sign of weakness to take medication, if needed. Talk to the man in the mirror every morning while shaving. You need to be his best friend.
D. Seek legal counsel to know your rights and where you will stand financially, should you divorce, pay child support, seek custody, etc. Learn what steps to take in protecting yourself in these areas, and anything else.
E. In cases of separation, have a child care/visitation schedule for the parents.
F. GAL!
G. No more Mr. Nice Guy! Stop being a pushover, and stand up for yourself. Appeasing a WW does not score brownie points.
oh i do wish i had found DB sooner - like 12 to 15 months ago!
if i had been looking i would have been wiser to what was happening and could have altered what i was doing towards my WAW, i pursued while she was distancing without me knowing that i was adding to her distance!
whether it would have stopped her PA i do not know, but i would have hopefully lessened the pain for me and my daughter! although i have read on here that we need to go through the pain to wake us up from the comfortable existence we have gotten into! to help us be who we really are!
i know hindsight is a wonderful tool? but i think that the help on these boards is as close to hindsight as any of us can get.
keep up the good work
Everyone wishes they had found DB faster. Heck, I knew about DB from my 2005 situation, but it still took my 2-3 days with my 2017 situation to remember it and start employing it. But that is life, we don't usually go "maybe I should learn DB techniques in case my S goes off the rails." So don't beat yourself up over it! Live and learn.
Also, it is never too late to start DBing. We have a saying around here. DBing may not save your marriage, but it will save yourself! So focus on saving yourself. Sometimes the MR comes along for the ride.
Thank you for the replies! they are helping me get myself together and start putting me back to being whole again?
Hey Mark,
Don't beat yourself up over anything that happened in the past. Maybe you could have changed the course of history or maybe not.
All you can do is control your own present to influence your own future. Set your priorities (your own wellbeing, your daughter's wellbeing, your own finances).
Find a good attorney right now. You may or may not have to use them. But you better get the BEST attorney you can get RIGHT NOW. If this goes to divorce, you will need the best. If you don't have a good attorney, you will fall for your ex's BS.
Good luck. Keep posting. BREATHE.
Had 2 low/bad days on Saturday and Sunday, missed the WW like crazy (kept that to myself) my Daughter is not aware as i have been upbeat while around her! i would hate her to let slip to her Grandmother and ruin my being Dark!
Hi Mark, I would try not to worry about what D tells Grandmother tells WW. You asked D once not to share much, and now it's out of your control. Focus more on your GAL and how you're really doing--things you control. Focusing much on what your WW hears would be the opposite of detachment.
i would hate her to let slip to her Grandmother and ruin my being Dark!
Why? Why would you hate it if she talked to grandmother? Why are you even going dark then? What's your purpose for this? Is it for your your own protection (it should be) or is it because you're trying to manipulate the situation in some way (that won't work)?
You have to be honest with yourself. Don't focus on the obstacles. Focus on your goals. If you keep staring at the trees in your path you are going to slam into one. Concentrate on the path and you'll stay on it.
To tie Joe's and my points back to Sandi's "Plan of Action"--
I. Accept what you cannot control or change.
G. Accept the fact that you are the only person you can control.
II. Regain mental stability and clarity.
F. Do not be concerned about what she thinks of you or your decisions/actions during this period. Whenever you catch yourself worrying what she thinks of your actions or reactions, remember your goal is to get your mind and emotions to a place of stability and clarity. As long as you are focused on what she thinks or feels, you aren’t focused on your goal.
III. Proactive steps
F. GAL!
To tie Joe's and my points back to Sandi's "Plan of Action"--
I. Accept what you cannot control or change.
G. Accept the fact that you are the only person you can control.
II. Regain mental stability and clarity.
F. Do not be concerned about what she thinks of you or your decisions/actions during this period. Whenever you catch yourself worrying what she thinks of your actions or reactions, remember your goal is to get your mind and emotions to a place of stability and clarity. As long as you are focused on what she thinks or feels, you aren’t focused on your goal.
III. Proactive steps
F. GAL!
Thanks for a bit of clarity, i can see that i am worrying about info getting to my WW rather than if it gets to her then so be it,
let me worry about me and my D, ignore her all together until she contacts me! i am starting to understand a lot of the concept of being dark, just need to keep reading it and applying all of it,
i am having good days without thinking about the sitch, but there are still a few bad days and i know i need to keep working on me
thanks for the help
Still early on MW, so don’t be too hard on yourself.
Just remember to do things with you in mind and what you want, don’t let her factor into your decisions. Easier said than done I know, but a pretty simple guide nonetheless.
still a bit raw as its only been 7 weeks today that the bomb was dropped and only 6 weeks after WW left the house.
still chewing stuff in my head and trying to make sense of it! and also answering D questions about why?
first time i have not had WW here with me in 28 years.
i am happier than i was 6 weeks ago and i am sleeping a lot better than i was. so onwards and upwards
Good to hear mate, it will keep getting better.
Keep posting and keep following the advice
It is important to note (if not already done) that it is ok and often advices to tell Children “I don’t know”.
Several ICs in different sitches have said this.
You are very early still so read and try to learn as much as possible.
Things WILL get better!
Hang in there mark. AS others have said, things will get better. And DBing gets easier as you work at it and times goes on. RIght now your brain is still trying to figure out what went wrong. It takes a while to rewire your brain to realize the whys aren't important. The "what I do from this moment forward" is what is important. People who are always looking back trying to figure out where the previous obstacle was will eventually trip over the next obstacle. Put the past behind you. You've already had the epiphany about the power of DB, so focus on DBIng. GAL. Self-improvements. Detachment. Focus your efforts there. Grandmothers, and other common people do not matter. We live in an interconnected world, so worrying about things you can't control won't help you. Focus on yourself, and what you need to do RIGHT now.
You've got this mark.
28 years, I feel for you.
My BD was in our 27th year of what I thought was a pretty good marriage. It is still hard for me to understand that the person I trusted the most is now my adversary
Oh, and my stbxw told me she loved me, was planning a party for me, gave a a hand made very thoughtful birthday present, enrolled in Global Entry to facilitate our upcoming travel all right up to BD. And theWW still complain that we don’t get it, how we can’t understand it’s over.
my WW and myself were discussing in Nov just gone of having a 60th birthday this year for me and clearing one of the holidays on my bucket list! and also looking forward to her 50th birthday and taking a cruise together and possibly renewing our wedding vows - fat chance of any of that now!
while looking at a Depression website i came across this - Anhedonia & love - interesting read? very often mistaken for mlc - i know i am looking for excuses for the WW behaviour, and she was still guilty of a PA but it was interesting never the less!
mark, nothing wrong with trying to understand the underlying reasons for her actions as long as that is all it is. Understanding. If you are doing it looking for a solution (logically we know that we have to understand a problem in order to fix it), then that is where you go astray. "She might be dealing with depression. She might be in an MLC. It might be her depression meds that are causing her to behave this way (this was me)." As long as you just want to understand and not fix, that is fine.
The biggest problem with this, and you are early in your sitch so you shouldn't beat yourself up over this, is that this kind of fact finding mission is still too focused on the WAS. DBing is about removing your focus from her and putting it on yourself. So rather than look for reasons for her behavior, I found that reading what MY behavior should be helped keep the focus on me. It took me several weeks before I was really good at keeping my focus on me and what I should be doing (GAL, 180s, detachment) and off of why she was doing what she was doing. So keep working on it, you'll get there.
Steve85 yes it was only me trying to understand! i am not going to offer up any advice to my WW or her friends or family? she is not on meds, she went to the doctor after being nagged by her friends! the doc gave her tablets for Depression - she took them for 3 days and then decided that she didn't need them and threw them out!
I've said it before and I'll say it again, how I find it strange the LBH had rather his W be suffering with MLC......or just about anything other than waywardness. Since most MLCW have an A, why is it so difficult for the LBH to accept his W is wayward? I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck, I just don't get it, other than being an issue with pride. It's easier, I suppose, to blame or pin their W's actions on a "condition" (MLC), whereas, the LBH sees waywardness more personal. Having a wayward wife is like a slap in the H's face. Is that it?
Having a wayward wife is like a slap in the H's face. Is that it?
I think so. Typical male pride getting in the way because you think that if it is a MLC, meds, or something else then it allows you to have a false sense of pride or at least feel like less of a failure. If you can tell yourself "she's only doing this because of her MLC" then you can avoid the thought of "she's doing this because I didn't please her/wasn't good enough for her/am not strong enough for her..." or whatever doubts you might have.
Sandi, i think you are partly right about pride! and partly right that MLC is in play, because we need something to hang on to whats happened.
the WW has gone from normal to alien within the space of 9 months before BD, and i know it was probably already past the point where she had checked out of the M - but it gives us comfort to know that it was not completely our fault.
we may have helped the M to fold in some way, but its the loss of our comfortable little worlds and it hurts.
Good points on Sandi's post. However, part of this is because we LBHs tend to be overtly attached, not properly differentiated, and therefore have an all or nothing attitude towards our MR. "If I lose my W my life will be ruined, people will see me as flawed, etc". The whole point about WWs is that it has less about you than you think. Yes you could have been a better husband. Yes there is some burden of guilt that falls at your feet. NONE OF THAT (unless you were abusive and/or a cheater yourself) justifies what they are doing.
MWD and all of the other anti-D experts that I read and studied say the same thing. IF the H can separate his emotions from the situation, and take on the attitude that they are going to be alright no matter what she does, and allows that perspective to inform their behavior and decisions, there is a greater chance that the WW will feel like THEY are the ones losing out and MIGHT start to second guess their choice. This is why begging, pleading, reasoning, promising, groveling, becoming super-husband, etc doesn't work. Because all that does is tell the WW "I can ALWAYS come back to him if I hit rock bottom." When you turn the tables and take away their safety net, sometimes they will start to hedge.
But please understand there are no guarantees. What I can guarantee you is catering to her will have her run out the door quicker than backing off, and going and living your best life regardless of what she is doing.
Easier said than done because we let our emotions take over.
IF the H can separate his emotions from the situation, and take on the attitude that they are going to be alright no matter what she does, and allows that perspective to inform their behavior and decisions, there is a greater chance that the WW will feel like THEY are the ones losing out and MIGHT start to second guess their choice.
I just said something similar in my thread. I have no idea what impact it will have on my marriage, but I can at least feel good knowing no matter what happens I will be OK. And I can see how it can cause the WW to second guess their choice. But even if they don't at least your pride or self-worth isn't tied to that.
Easier said than done because we let our emotions take over.
This x100. It's easy to say logical and sensible things here when we're in a somewhat level headed state of mind. It's different out in the real world.
Easier said than done because we let our emotions take over.
[/quote]his x100. It's easy to say logical and sensible things here when we're in a somewhat level headed state of mind. It's different out in the real world. [/quote]
Thank you saltydog, i am early in my sitch and as much as i am trying to let emotions go? its still playing me at times.
And i know that people here are trying to help - for which i am thankful,and the reason i came to these boards!
i am getting better at separating them and dealing with them and looking to the blue skies beyond,but i need time to do that!
most of the help are from people who have reached the blue sky area and are trying to guide us there.
just heard a fantastic quote
goodbye to my hopes and dreams! welcome to my new hopes and dreams?
Things will get better. Right now your heart is broken, but you will bounce back. Breathe. Get your game plan together.
Take control of YOURSELF and realize that it is the ONLY part of your life that you can control.
IMHO, detaching is when you can look at your sitch as if you were a bystander observing another couple. You don't become involved in the wayward spouse's drama. Pulling you into her drama is her number one play. That's why she prefers negative reactions, rather than no reaction at all. You remain stoic. Any emotions you feel is not exposed in front of WW and/or children. Let go of your emotions in private.
When you realize you have a WW, everything should change. Some WW's want the home life to remain the same, while she carries on with OM. The H should call a halt to everything that was seen as normal in their relationship, so she'll see that it's not going to work the way she imagined.
The biggest misconception newcomer LBH's have about their WW is to believe they can nice them back. Peel off the nice-guy, b/c that is your # 1 adversary. Your WW detests your NGS, but she'll play on it to manipulate you. NGS is serious, and unfortunately, many men are very proud to announce they are nice guys (not understanding the root causes).
goodbye to my hopes and dreams! welcome to my new hopes and dreams?
This is a great quote! A breakup is change, and change is opportunity.
The trouble is that us LBH's view our WW via rose coloured spectacles and put them on a pedastool, we are remembering the good moments of our M, where as our WW is only wants to remember the negative bits and non of the good bits?
What us LBH's need to do is remember, is the lies and deceit we had to endure over the past year or two?
In my case of how she put me into Depression and stress.
When I list out her good points and then her bad points of which there are more,!
I then ask myself why would you still want to be M with her?
Hello Mark, from a fellow Brit
I was in your Sitch exactly 24 months ago. My DB was Dec 18..
It was a rough until March 2019 as WW was still in the same house.
The LBS is controlled by fear... In my case it was around the children.. Not seeing them every day, would the seperation impact on them etc.
I can hand on heart say that the last 18 months have been the best 18 months since i met my WW...
I also now believe our seperation was best for our children. My WW has always been selfish and her selfish actions controlled / dictated what we did with our children. She found day trips out with three children "stressfull" - she hated our annual holidays abroad, as they werent relaxing - they stressed her out. She never saw past her own opinion or agenda.
Since seperation (when not in lockdown ) i take our children on day trips every weekend. They are the kind of places my ex would hate ( Blackpool / llandudno etc ) but its not about the adult - its what makes kids happy !
You are fortunate your Daughter is 16.
Move on, be a great dad to your daughter and embrase your new life. In 2 years time you will be happy - your WW will probably always be messed up !
my D is so much calmer without her mother here! when i used to come home from work, i would walk into a stressed house with D and WW at each other? i have non of that now!
i know she has only been gone 7 weeks and it could change, but at the moment if she asked to come home tomorrow? i would say no! my D would have to come first!
if only lockdown would end we could expand our outings with the dog!
and yes you are right! it is fear that controls my emotions! but i am starting to think why do i need a W to be happy i can do this on my own.
finances are now under control and separated into personnel accounts! i did not realise how much she spent on clothes until i started bagging them up, still loads with labels on and never worn!
The trouble is that us LBH's view our WW via rose coloured spectacles and put them on a pedastool, we are remembering the good moments of our M, where as our WW is only wants to remember the negative bits and non of the good bits?
What us LBH's need to do is remember, is the lies and deceit we had to endure over the past year or two?
In my case of how she put me into Depression and stress.
When I list out her good points and then her bad points of which there are more,!
I then ask myself why would you still want to be M with her?
mark, this is awesome. Very few of us LBHs come to this realization so quickly. But this is the kind of thinking that can really turn you around and get you headed in the right direction. Rather than holding on to your WAS for dear life, it can allow you to start making your future plans for yourself. I was about the same distance into my sitch when I finally woke up to the same kind of thinking.
As you said, the rose-tinted glasses make us forget that our MR wasn't all that before BD. But when you step back and realize that it wasn't all that great, and maybe BD is exactly what you needed, then you can start looking at things more objectively. I am a big proponent of LBSs looking at their sitches objectively. What would you tell a friend that was in your shoes? Stepping back and trying to see the forest for the trees can help get a better perspective and try to separate out the logical from the emotion. Very difficult to do, but if you can it can get you thinking more clearly and seeing things for what they really are.
So mark, what are your plans for how to move forward?
my forward plans after we come out of lockdown are
1) join a ramblers club - i love walking and being outdoors, i already signed up before lockdown but didn't manage any walks as they all got cancelled.
2) i had started to watch grass routes football again (soccer to Americans) and was starting to enjoy watching 2 of our local teams
3) i bought a road bike in July and had started cycling around the local area, too wet and windy now.
4) my D and me like to walk the coastal paths with the dog (cant at the moment)
5) get my D though College - so she can be the best in life that she can be.
6) continue to get my confidence and self esteem back to what it was a couple of years ago
then after i have finished my grief of my loss (maybe 18 - 24 months) online dating maybe? although i am scared by that prospect as i haven't dated in 28 years
my forward plans after we come out of lockdown are
1) join a ramblers club - i love walking and being outdoors, i already signed up before lockdown but didn't manage any walks as they all got cancelled.
Get involved now! They are probably hosting online meetings. Do not wait until after lockdown.
2) i had started to watch grass routes football again (soccer to Americans) and was starting to enjoy watching 2 of our local teams
Do they televise these? Why wait until after lockdown?
3) i bought a road bike in July and had started cycling around the local area, too wet and windy now.
Why not order one of those training things that turns your road bike into a stationary bike? Start training now!
4) my D and me like to walk the coastal paths with the dog (cant at the moment)
I thought dog walking was an exception to the lockdown? Maybe not with D, but do it without her for now.
5) get my D though College - so she can be the best in life that she can be.
Isn't she learning virtually right now? Why would this be stopped by lockdown?
6) continue to get my confidence and self esteem back to what it was a couple of years ago
Again, no need to wait for the lockdown for this.
then after i have finished my grief of my loss (maybe 18 - 24 months) online dating maybe? although i am scared by that prospect as i haven't dated in 28 years
Take this off the list. There will be a point in time where this happens, no need to list it here.
mark, I am detecting excuses here. "I would do this but lockdown...." Where there is a will there is a way. mark. we LBSs are notorious for sitting around and stewing on our sitch. Most of the above you can still do, maybe a little differently (like riding the bike on a stationary mount, etc).
Get up and get moving!
Very different here in the UK at the moment, we are not allowed to be any further than 7 miles from home!
steve i am awaiting until after the lockdown to get out and about.
grass routes football is level 6 here in the UK - Village football (not televised) level 1 (prem is) nothing below this level is!
the Ramblers is an outside group for walking - no meetings online as this would be pointless!
again dog walking is ok and yes i do that everyday - but must stay within 7 miles of home, any further away and they fine you if caught.
i do have a stationary mount for my bike - the joy of cycling is feeling the wind in your hair and the surrounding country side - not the inside of my front room
my confidence will return when i can do the things that i enjoy outside - its getting better but it will take time! of which i have plenty of
The trouble is that us LBH's view our WW via rose coloured spectacles and put them on a pedastool, we are remembering the good moments of our M, where as our WW is only wants to remember the negative bits and non of the good bits?
This will change where your's will come off and hers will go on. Google the Fading Affect Bias.
What us LBH's need to do is remember, is the lies and deceit we had to endure over the past year or two?
You would be surprised what some LBS are willing to overlook including multiple affairs
In my case of how she put me into Depression and stress.
Something to work on. You should never let anyone effect your emotions.
When I list out her good points and then her bad points of which there are more,!
Odds are you were just as unhappy with her. Men are typically willing to put up more to keep the family intact.
I then ask myself why would you still want to be M with her? [/quote]
The biggest problem for most people in this scenario is the feeling that you've lost control over your life and your future.
For years you've lived by a certain set of rules -- that if you're a good husband, you can count on your wife supporting you.
Because you're married, your relationship is a source of stability in your life.
When that's suddenly ripped away and you can't understand (a) what you did to make it fall apart so suddenly, (b) why the person who used to be your partner seems to have had a complete personality change and (c) why you can't seem to do anything to make it better, it is totally destabilizing.
Your brain doesn't like this instability, and it doesn't like the unavailability of a remedy at all! Its panic-inducing.
Because of this lack of control and the fear that comes with it, you desperately, desperately want to regain your feeling of control and stability.
Your brain convinces you that the quickest way to do that is to get your wayward spouse back. If you can do that, then all the old rules still apply and there was just a temporary blip on the radar.
As a result, your brain will compel you to want to pursue, and everything else is a justification to allow you to do what you want.
Step back and look at some of these situations -- a person's wife cheats on them for years with several OM's. If that comes to light, a rational person would say "this woman has issues" and head the other way right? But in reality, we see time and again that the LBS convinces themselves that this cheater is the best person in the world, and they want to have them back more than anything.
WHY? Because the loss of control is devastating. The loss of control is something our brains can't process or tolerate.
3) i bought a road bike in July and had started cycling around the local area, too wet and windy now.
i do have a stationary mount for my bike - the joy of cycling is feeling the wind in your hair and the surrounding country side - not the inside of my front room
I just started a daily practice of cycling, so I get preferring outside. In my area, it's been 30s with light wind and rain. I had to order lightweight gloves and ear warmers (headband-style). I also am not straying too many miles from home in case "light rain and wind" shifts to "heavy rain and wind".
A ticketed 7-mile prohibition--wow! That is tighter than most places in the USA. Still, that allows you to cycle (2 x Pi x 7) = up to 43 miles in a straight line, or in an area (Pi x 7^2) of about 150 square miles.
It's an interesting time. I hope the weather clears up near you, soon.
i am still wearing my wedding ring, would it help with detachment to remove it? or does it make no difference at all?
the reason i ask is my WW has sent a list this morning of stuff she wants from the house for her flat, most of it is kitchen stuff and bedding covers! and it made me think about taking my ring off and leaving it off?
either way i am good with
Depends on what it symbolizes for you.
If you accept that your marriage is over, take it off and start moving forward it will help you with detachment.
If you take it off and keep trying to hold on for dear life it will not help with detachment.
Do what feels right to you.
Odds are you were just as unhappy with her. Men are typically willing to put up more to keep the family intact. I then ask myself why would you still want to be M with her?
I think if most of us were truly honest with ourselves, we'd see the absolute truth in this.
Hi Mark, just be wary of taking it off to get a reaction, as that often backfires when (most common) they take no apparent notice of the change or (less common) it becomes another excuse for moving on. If you do it because you believe the marriage is over, those won't be problems. It can help with detachment.
she wouldn't notice as i haven't seen her since xmas day -so its only for me and yes i think my M is finished as WW wants all her stuff out of my house! plus some other stuff as well.
currently reading the NMMNG book and the below fits me like a glove,and i never realised that i was like this?
"The Enmeshing Nice Guy makes his partner his emotional centre. His world revolves around her. She is more important than his work, his friends, his hobbies. He will do whatever it takes to make her happy. He will give her gifts, try to fix her problems, and arrange his schedule to be with her. He will gladly sacrifice his wants and needs to win her love. He will even tolerate her bad moods, rage attacks, and emotional or sexual unavailability — all because he "loves her so much."
i need to learn how to stop being for other people and start being for me without being selfish.
currently reading the NMMNG book and the below fits me like a glove,and i never realised that i was like this?
"The Enmeshing Nice Guy makes his partner his emotional centre. His world revolves around her. She is more important than his work, his friends, his hobbies. He will do whatever it takes to make her happy. He will give her gifts, try to fix her problems, and arrange his schedule to be with her. He will gladly sacrifice his wants and needs to win her love. He will even tolerate her bad moods, rage attacks, and emotional or sexual unavailability — all because he "loves her so much."
i need to learn how to stop being for other people and start being for me without being selfish.
It's a rough realization to deal with. And it is a b*tch to change if you've been that way for a long time. I still find myself doing falling back into that pattern, but at least I can recognize it now and try to catch myself or remind myself not to go backwards. It may not always work, but at least I'm aware of it.
Well the WW is now getting a flat to herself? She has decided to leave her mothers house ? Where she gets waited on hand and foot to come into the world of reality!
She has been there for 7 weeks now? Om is still on the scene as far as I know?
Mark,
Break this attachment with what WW is doing.
WW getting a flat - NOT your concern.
If you had young children, thats a differet scenario - you don't.. Hence unless she expects you to pay for it, its nothing to do with you.
Leaving her mothers - Not your concern
OM still on the scene - Not your concern
You have 2 concerns - Yourself and your Daughter. Thats it. Unless WW starts to cause issues with yourself or your daughter - Not you concern - You cant fix her - You cant save her. Let her go and do her selfish WW stuff - You enjoy life !
Mark, look at the quotes below from your last two posts.
You just posted:
"The Enmeshing Nice Guy makes his partner his emotional centre. His world revolves around her. She is more important than his work, his friends, his hobbies.
Then followed with:
Well the WW is now getting a flat to herself? She has decided to leave her mothers house ? Where she gets waited on hand and foot to come into the world of reality!
Do you see the connection?
That's why I am here on the site, for you to guide me and help me get to the place I want to be!
The moment you pointed it out Sandi I can see it.
As Saltydog said some days it's easy and other days you slip! Guess I am having a slip day.
I need to distance myself and concern myself with my D and me
Thanks for the help I am getting.
Mark,
Break this attachment with what WW is doing.
WW getting a flat - NOT your concern.
If you had young children, thats a differet scenario - you don't.. Hence unless she expects you to pay for it, its nothing to do with you.
Leaving her mothers - Not your concern
OM still on the scene - Not your concern
You have 2 concerns - Yourself and your Daughter. Thats it. Unless WW starts to cause issues with yourself or your daughter - Not you concern - You cant fix her - You cant save her. Let her go and do her selfish WW stuff - You enjoy life !
This, exactly. She isn't your woman, so you act accordingly.
I am employed as a fixer at work, and think that it has bled into my home life as well. I never intended for the 2 to mix but it seems they are one!
Need to separate the 2 again and stop trying to solve the WW problems.
I feel it will take a little bit of work, but I will get there
I've said it before and I'll say it again, how I find it strange the LBH had rather his W be suffering with MLC......or just about anything other than waywardness. Since most MLCW have an A, why is it so difficult for the LBH to accept his W is wayward? I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck, I just don't get it, other than being an issue with pride. It's easier, I suppose, to blame or pin their W's actions on a "condition" (MLC), whereas, the LBH sees waywardness more personal. Having a wayward wife is like a slap in the H's face. Is that it?
My answer to Sandi's question:
I was hopeful for a second that my wife was having a MLC and was just experiencing a confusing time in her life. Maybe she just needed to go on a beach trip to get some space and figure things out. Then she could come home and we can work on things and fix our marriage with proper counseling.
.......Nah, that beach trip was with her affair partner. AND THEY HAD A LOT OF SEX.
It hurt me to the core to think that my wife just decided to become a cheating ____. It annihilated my pride feeling like I was not good enough for her. It crushed my soul when I found out what kind of douchey guy she chose as her OM. It destroyed my self-esteem knowing that the world was watching and wondering how I failed as a man.
But hey, a midlife crisis? That sounds like a condition that someone can snap out of!
WW or MLC both are problems that are affecting out lives!
i need to learn how to stop being for other people and start being for me without being selfish.
It's OK to be selfish mate.
A selfish man is a
man without a self.
By being selfish I don't mean you look after yourself at the expense of others, you look after yourself
as well as others.
Thou lovest thy neighbour as thou lovest thyself.
Until now, as you say, you've been caretaking others at the expense of yourself.
Let her get her flat and have fun with all the bills, repairs, responsibility etc.
D16 should surely be old enough to decide for herself with whom she lives, according to English law?
D16 is staying with me - her choice!
she is the one that is keeping me sane at the moment.
Just a small question
can you do too much reading about the sitch or is ALL reading about the sitch and your WW good?
Just a small question
can you do too much reading about the sitch or is ALL reading about the sitch and your WW good?
Yes you can. It is important through GAL to step away from your sitch as much as possible. I mention GAL. The reaon for that is that these two go hand in hand. We had a poster here a couple of years ago that was TERRBILE at GAL. Was full of excuses why he couldn't do GAL. He would sit at work, go home and sit, and just stew in his sitch. He'd post sometimes 2 dozens times a day in his thread, and seemed to take some level of satisfaction in seeing his thread reach 100 as quickly as possibly. He floundered in his sitch for months, and his progress was slow.
SO yes, you can read and post and be consumed by your witch and your WW too much. That is where GAL comes in!
Bad evening last night, D brought out the family photo's and that brought on sadness about the good life we had together? D cried about the happy life as a family that we had before her mother became a WW
From time to time, you're going to have these kind of moments. We all did. But over time, they happen less frequently and they don't last as along. Just remember that it is entirely normal to be sad about something like this. Just don't linger.
WW and AP have been getting letters from someone sent to them! saying what i don't know. they are not being sent by me or D as i have asked D!
WW has decided that they must be from me! i can only guess that they are not kindness letters - but its the fact i am taking the blame
she has not told me about them but MIL has without mentioning the contents!
It hurt me to the core to think that my wife just decided to become a cheating ____. It annihilated my pride feeling like I was not good enough for her. It crushed my soul when I found out what kind of douchey guy she chose as her OM. It destroyed my self-esteem knowing that the world was watching and wondering how I failed as a man.
But hey, a midlife crisis? That sounds like a condition that someone can snap out of!
Yes, I think I see what you mean. However, I wouldn't say they just snap out of MLC, either. Some can last for years. But I get what you mean about it being a condition.
So, when I try to imagine how I would feel if things were reversed and my H had an A with some piece if trash.......it does begin to make a little better sense. It's as if they are saying you were such a sorry spouse, even a piece of trash would be an improvement.
Thanks, Joe!
Hi Mark,
It's not uncommon for the WAS/WWS to blame you for all sorts of things that aren't on you--and even the mystery letter scenario is not infrequent. Cheaters cheat and often there are more wronged parties. This is STBXW's and AP's mess. What's your worry? Is unfair blame unusual? Any clear danger to your kids? You know you didn't do it--so clear conscience. You told MIL you didn't do it--people who trust you will believe you.
WW has come to my house and moved all the stuff out today - feels kinda empty now
was a little bit sad when i got home to see how empty her space is!
all clothes and shoes,cook books (wont be sad for them to go)
i suppose no memories to hold back my recovery now and become who i want to be come again!
It hurt me to the core to think that my wife just decided to become a cheating ____. It annihilated my pride feeling like I was not good enough for her. It crushed my soul when I found out what kind of douchey guy she chose as her OM. It destroyed my self-esteem knowing that the world was watching and wondering how I failed as a man.
But hey, a midlife crisis? That sounds like a condition that someone can snap out of!
Yes, I think I see what you mean. However, I wouldn't say they just snap out of MLC, either. Some can last for years. But I get what you mean about it being a condition.
So, when I try to imagine how I would feel if things were reversed and my H had an A with some piece if trash.......it does begin to make a little better sense. It's as if they are saying you were such a sorry spouse, even a piece of trash would be an improvement.
Thanks, Joe!
I actually felt a little better abut myself when I found out 2 months after bomb drop because I realized that the reasons the marriage was failng was because of her actions. I own up 50% of the problems in the marriage, but the decisiion to cheat means that you are a bad person.
I actually felt a little better abut myself when I found out 2 months after bomb drop because I realized that the reasons the marriage was failng was because of her actions. I own up 50% of the problems in the marriage, but the decisiion to cheat means that you are a bad person.
Big of you to own up to 50%.
WW and AP have been getting letters from someone sent to them! saying what i don't know. they are not being sent by me or D as i have asked D!
WW has decided that they must be from me! i can only guess that they are not kindness letters - but its the fact i am taking the blame
she has not told me about them but MIL has without mentioning the contents!
Now got MIL and WW believing thats its me sending letters to PA and suggesting that they are homophobic and hate letters and that he will be involving the Police!
WW has seen these letters and shared them with MIL & FIL and now they are against me as well!
is this the spew that posters on here say about!
Hi Mark,
Now got MIL and WW believing thats its me sending letters to PA and suggesting that they are homophobic and hate letters and that he will be involving the Police!
A police investigation shouldn't be a big concern--you have a jury to protect you if you're not guilty. Hate speech has harsh penalties, so if they find the culprit--your WW, AP, one of their APs--they're in for it. You seem very interested in events--even doing your own mini-investigation by asking your D--but this is your WW's roller-coaster. As much as you can, let her ride it, while you do your own thing. Being very interested and very defensive could even look suspicious compared to leaving it at, "No, it wasn't me." if asked.
WW has seen these letters and shared them with MIL & FIL and now they are against me as well!
They usually do pick their blood relative in the end. I get losing MIL and FIL is yet another loss beyond WW, even if common. Be kind to yourself as you grieve all you've lost.
Homophobia and "hate letters" aren't crimes. I'm sure the cops have better things to do. So should you.
Homophobia and "hate letters" aren't crimes. I'm sure the cops have better things to do. So should you.
Good stuff. I just Wikipedia'd "hate speech laws". Interesting--in the UK it's illegal, in the US it's not. In the US it only enhances existing crimes. Even less for Mark to worry about. Her circus, her monkeys.
A police investigation shouldn't be a big concern--you have a jury to protect you if you're not guilty. Hate speech has harsh penalties, so if they find the culprit--your WW, AP, one of their APs--they're in for it. You seem very interested in events--even doing your own mini-investigation by asking your D--but this is your WW's roller-coaster. As much as you can, let her ride it, while you do your own thing. Being very interested and very defensive could even look suspicious compared to leaving it at, "No, it wasn't me." if asked.
sorry hate sh*t being thrown at me and especially when i didn't do it! only asked D just in case, didn't think for one moment it was her.
i have my own theory where it has come from! but if i get asked it will be it wasn't from me!
i am not going to be doing her detective work for her - its her problem not mine.
i do not have to answer to her, she is a WW living away from me
WW has come to my house and moved all the stuff out today - feels kinda empty now
was a little bit sad when i got home to see how empty her space is!
all clothes and shoes,cook books (wont be sad for them to go)
i suppose no memories to hold back my recovery now and become who i want to be come again!
just been through my loft, WW has completely emptied all her stuff out of it! including the xmas tree and decs.
everything seems so final now and i am feeling it. Very Sad and low?
i was doing so well a week ago, now 3 steps back! before going forward again.
Mark,
Don’t be too hard on yourself. If you didn’t find that sad I would be worried. Feel the sadness because it’s all part of the grieving process.
It’s never actually final until one of you are in the ground.
Hey Mark,
that stinks to hear. I know a lot of pain for me came from willful ignorance. We know these things happen when people are going through divorce, yet we don't believe it can happen to us. It's human nature.
Something I did every day for a year or so was tell myself "today could be the last day you are married". And it could be the last day you draw breath too. It reminded me of the reality of my situation and helped me to accept and expect everything that happened. This kept me from getting too low.
Just looked at myself in the mirror this morning and I am not liking the man I see looking back. My eyes look dead from behind I need to pull myself together and realise she ain't never coming back now all her stuff has gone?
Why would she want to anyway when you are such a mess.
Need to focus on me and D fully now
Yesterday was painful, my focus had shifted back to the WW and I need to get it back to me and D
Accept that life will not be the same again and start creating a new life.
I want to be the man I was 5 years ago happy and contented
Just looked at myself in the mirror this morning and I am not liking the man I see looking back. My eyes look dead from behind I need to pull myself together and realise she ain't never coming back now all her stuff has gone?
Why would she want to anyway when you are such a mess.
Change your mindset. This should read, "Why would I want her to come back when she's such a mess?"
In your above statement, you are blaming yourself and basically saying you aren't good enough for her. Your M will never work as long as you rank yourself lower than your
wayward W.
I think your recent low feelings come from her blaming you for the letter, and now her parents are against you. BTW, did one of her parents actually talk about it to you, or are you going by whatever your WW said?
If you are a man of integrity, then hold your head high and stop acting guilty as sin.
I want to be the man I was 5 years ago happy and contented
Mark, do you want it bad enough to make it a priority over your WW? If so, then tell us what you would need to do to become that man again. I think it's a great goal. Like any goal, it requires work. You can break it down into small steps that lead you to that goal.
Sandi
MIL told me about the letters asking for them to stop if i know who is sending them!
i was feeling very low over the last few days and then i start to look inwards!
very difficult to GAL at the moment in the UK because every thing is shut! and we are unable to visit family that live in another town?
it was the sadness of all her stuff gone that triggered the low
i was one of the most laid back people that you could meet, calm and confident in my abilities,
my WW before was a WAW and her stress/depression/MLC or what ever she has? has dragged me down.
i am being treated for depression by my doctor - caused by the Sitch and am in counselling for it also.
she has gone now and hopefully i can now work on myself without having to walk on eggshells with her.
WW has come to my house and moved all the stuff out today - feels kinda empty now
was a little bit sad when i got home to see how empty her space is!
all clothes and shoes,cook books (wont be sad for them to go)
i suppose no memories to hold back my recovery now and become who i want to be come again!
just been through my loft, WW has completely emptied all her stuff out of it! including the xmas tree and decs.
everything seems so final now and i am feeling it. Very Sad and low?
i was doing so well a week ago, now 3 steps back! before going forward again.
Do not suppress those emotions, feel them and get them out. Too many think that feeling sad is not something that they should feel. Feeling sad isn't the problem, letting in immobilize you is. So feel.....emote....move forward! You've got this, mark!
So i managed to get my WW out of my head for nearly a week now, until she tries a new tactic?
she has been texting our D and telling her about how she hasn't loved me for the last 2 years and would have left me anyway even if she hadn't had a PA
My D doesn't believe a word she is saying to her! My D says she is trying to play being the victim to gain support from her friends & family!
WW is still telling the D she is in love with the PA and you will grow to love him too? D says never ever will she even speak to him.
i haven't physically seen her since Xmas day, i have had a couple of text's from her over a week ago about a couple of items she left in my loft
But nothing else and i would like to keep it that way as i was getting quite good about not thinking about the sitch
When it comes to getting her out of your head, it gets easier every time. What she is telling your daughter doesn't matter much, it's standard stuff. She is trying to justify everything.
Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see. Don't let anyone of it control how you live your life.
Tell her to stick to email for communication and then if she texts or calls about a non emergency you don't respond.
I hope England is treating you well.
Mark,
Block her. - SMS, calls, Facebook, Whatspp etc
I've said it before - you are fortunate you have a child ( although not really a child any more ) who is old enough to make rational decissions.. Another thing - Your Daughter will have a more rational mind / make sounder decisions than an WW.. WW act on emotion, hence their reality and decisions are just crazy.
You have nothing to discuss with WW.. Let the solicitors handle the divorce / assets when it comes to it - protect yourself and your Daughter..As per above, WW make stupid emotionally fuelled decisions - Boob jobs, holidays, clothes etc.. - Protect you and your daughter !
As for the whole "last 2 years" thing - look up Monkey branching. and while you think about that, consider than Plan B scenario... Affairs rarely last. You are a solid plan B for WW ( and most WWs ) - Is this what you want ?
Mark, if you don’t mind me asking, what were the circumstances that led your daughter to stay with you. How is she coping? Is she in IC? Obviously she is less than thrilled her mother has a PA, but how did she find out?
I am in a similar sitch and I have 2 daughters who don’t know about their mothers PA. It’s a real mess because D18 is applying to college and I could use some co parenting help from stbxw which I am not getting.
Mark, if you don’t mind me asking, what were the circumstances that led your daughter to stay with you. How is she coping? Is she in IC? Obviously she is less than thrilled her mother has a PA, but how did she find out?
I am in a similar sitch and I have 2 daughters who don’t know about their mothers PA. It’s a real mess because D18 is applying to college and I could use some co parenting help from stbxw which I am not getting.
My D was given the option to go with her M, but they have not got on for at least the last 2 years, constantly arguing -(i know normal teenager stuff) M told her about the PA on BD, although my D had picked up her M phone while she was in the shower and seen messages from the PA (she had been suspicious for a while)
to be fair i don't think her M really wanted her as it would limit the time she could have with the PA, she is an absolute gem now her M has gone, although it does concern me how much she does know?
starting to enjoy this GALing had a really good week - been out in the glorious weather we have had in the UK walking and just generally talking to people while out ( 2 meters away) joined the website Restless and am talking to a few people from other parts of the UK online! Happiest i think i have been for at least the last 2 years? onwards and upwards from now on!