Link to my previous thread.
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2911026&page=11So an update:
Helped WW move all the way out of OM with a couple family members and friends. Her FIL ripped her a new one when she moved back into the IL's home. I made sure her and the kids were situated. I still remain in my own apartment. WW wanted to have the "talk" about our future. She asked me if I want to get the divorce, she said something told her not to do it and right now she is not sure if we should get the divorce and start over or just stay M. I told her that it was not important to me either way. She asked for time to figure herself out, she said she doesnt want to be with anyone and wants to be alone for awhile. I encouraged that and told her that it is very important that she does take some time to figure herself out. She told me she doesnt want to divorce me but needs to be alone and not with anyone for awhile. I told her that if she plans on dating, seeing other men, living a single party life sleeping with others than I would prefer to continue the divorce. She told me she has 0% intrest in other men and she apologized for destroying my life, she told me that she realized that no other person will ever love our kids like I do and no other man will ever love her the way I do. She seems remorseful and regretful more than she has been. She also seems respectful and is not attempting to just pick up where we left off.
I know that our M is broken, she is broken, at this time I have become used to the fact that she is lost and nobody can do anything for her but time and reality. She asks that we spend time together as friends and go from there and rebuild our relationship the right way I told her I will not accept strictly platonic friends and If she is not interested on working on the M there is no reason to stay married. She agreed to my terms on not seeing others and working on the M slowly over time. She has asked me to spend time with her and the kids daily since she moved in, I have spent some time with them but I do not stay when she asks me to stay. Sometimes she is affectionate sometimes she is not. But she is always happy to see me. I know that she will need to do some serious internal work but she has agreed to therapy and to just work on herself for now.
I have no expectations of her, I feel like I will be let down. I do not expect her to change and I expect to be D'd a year from now simply because I wont tolerate disrespect anymore or any OM. So we will see.
Oh boy, Steve_. You really do not want to DB, do you? Helping her move back to IL's? Having this back and forth with her? It bothers me that you feel these were the right things to do.
And I fear you are still putting value in her words because it is what you like to hear.
She told me she has 0% intrest in other men and she apologized for destroying my life, she told me that she realized that no other person will ever love our kids like I do and no other man will ever love her the way I do. She seems remorseful and regretful more than she has been. She also seems respectful and is not attempting to just pick up where we left off.
-insert eye rolling smilie-
Steve_ you shouldn't trust this woman as far as you could pick up a semi-truck and throw it. She is in a bad way right now and she is saying what you want to here to manipulate you. Your answer to whether or not to get a D was weak. Never mind that you should have never had the discussion with her, you should have said "I am moving on with my life." Most of the time "moving on" is the wrong term (move forward is better) but in your case I honestly think you SHOULD move on with your life.
Steve_, I know you continue to make excuses as to why you can't DB. How is therapy going?
Hmm...good luck. I mean that. I just don’t think there is much to add. Still all the focus on her. Still doing her favors. She had other family members helping her move. You didn’t need to. You could have spent that time with the kids and not her. She’s still keeping you as a back up plan just in case nothing better comes along and you’re playing into it. She hasn’t changed. She’s just changed tactics. I guarantee she never goes to therapy and if she does. One or two sessions max and will be cured of all that ales her.
I do hope you are still continuing therapy.
I really can’t add much, I’m just....flabbergasted really.
Good luck Steve. Seriously I hope you’re ready because the moment living with mom and dad gets old she’s coming back. I give it 2 weeks because she doesn’t like anyone stepping on her toes or getting in the way of what she wants. And you don’t do either...
I do catch myself doing that Steve. I really did feel like getting my kids the hell out of there was the right thing to do. As far as my W is concerned i DO NOT trust a single word she says. As far as I know she has me on pause while she shops for next OM. That is pretty much what I expect. I am only reporting what has happened. As far as I am concerned I have seen no actions on her part to indicate change so I am not investing much into this. I do what I feel is the right thing to do but I do not have any real true hope that she can actually change. I am not giving her the benefit of the doubt, just the doubt.
I am focusing on being positive and just being the person I want to be. She can do whatever she wants and it is out of my hands.
Hi Steve85,
It bothers me that you feel these were the right things to do.
I suspect he knows they were not, hence not stopping by to ask for advice, as he repeated past choices. Change is hard, Steve has gone to IC a couple times. I hope he continues that work. If so, I believe he’ll get there!
DB 101 - Believe nothing she says.
She asked for time to figure herself out, she said she doesnt want to be with anyone and wants to be alone for awhile.
This is a lie.
She told me she has 0% intrest in other men and she apologized for destroying my life, she told me that she realized that no other person will ever love our kids like I do and no other man will ever love her the way I do.
Lie #2.
She seems remorseful and regretful more than she has been. She also seems respectful and is not attempting to just pick up where we left off.
This is you lying to yourself.
She agreed to my terms on not seeing others and working on the M slowly over time.
Lie #3.
I have no expectations of her, I feel like I will be let down. I do not expect her to change and I expect to be D'd a year from now simply because I wont tolerate disrespect anymore or any OM. So we will see.
This is the one truth in your post.
You know how you can tell when she is lying, Steve? When her lips move and words come out of her mouth.
So Steve as usual that was a tough read.
She asked for time to figure herself out, she said she doesn't want to be with anyone and wants to be alone for awhile.
So this starts out great. That is what she should be doing which includes IC.
I encouraged that and told her that it is very important that she does take some time to figure herself out.
Perfect response from you so you are off to a good start. But.................
She told me she doesn't want to divorce me but needs to be alone and not with anyone for awhile. I told her that if she plans on dating, seeing other men, living a single party life sleeping with others than I would prefer to continue the divorce. She told me she has 0% interest in other men and she apologized for destroying my life,
So this sounds like a boundary. What are the consequences when she breaks the boundary?
She told me that she realized that no other person will ever love our kids like I do
WTF? Took her that long to realize that no man would love your kids more then you????
She seems remorseful and regretful more than she has been.
What does that look like?
She also seems respectful and is not attempting to just pick up where we left off.
How is she being respectful? Being true to her word and taking it slow?
I know that our M is broken, she is broken, at this time I have become used to the fact that she is lost and nobody can do anything for her but time and reality.
Sooooooo time and space?????????????
She asks that we spend time together as friends and go from there and rebuild our relationship the right way I told her I will not accept strictly platonic friends and If she is not interested on working on the M there is no reason to stay married.
I thought she needed time alone to figure herself out????????????
She agreed to my terms on not seeing others and working on the M slowly over time.
Wow. That was awful nice of her. But again, sounds like a boundary, What happens when she breaks it?
She has asked me to spend time with her and the kids daily since she moved in, I have spent some time with them but I do not stay when she asks me to stay.
Oh spend time together daily. What happened to slow and figuring herself out?
I know that she will need to do some serious internal work but she has agreed to therapy and to just work on herself for now.
But your affectionate and seeing each other daily. When is her first appt?
I have no expectations of her, I feel like I will be let down. I do not expect her to change and I expect to be D'd a year from now simply because I wont tolerate disrespect anymore or any OM. So we will see.
You are a wise man Steve.
If she crosses my boundaries I am going to the lawyer's office and filing the final paper for the D. Point blank and period. She will either learn from this or she wont thats that.
She says she doesnt want to be in a relationship now but asks to rebuild ours slowly so she pretty much says "hang out with me and the kids, lets start over and take it slow, rebuilt the connection and go from there, dont expect to just pick up as if we are married and perfect. She said she is afraid that I wont be able to let it go and if she does anything wrong ill explode on her and bring up OM and so on etc, she just needs time to see if we can do this before she agrees to move forward together" that is what she said. I do understand that she is concerned that I would be seriously pissed off and so on, anyone would. But I am not holding on to anger, Im not holding on to anything here. I dont expect anything to really just magically get better. If we have not made any progress, if her actions dont match her words on our 10th anniversary coming up feb 19th im going to ask to push the divorce forward. I have not told her this but if she cannot start to work on the right path and show me something real in the next month and some change I got no reason to be married to her.
She seems remorseful and regretful more than she has been. She also seems respectful and is not attempting to just pick up where we left off.
This is you lying to yourself.
This was the most troubling thing in his post. He says he believes nothing she says......but the falls for this manipulation. She hates living at her parents. She would move in with Steve_ in a heartbeat.....and be on the look out for OM #8......
Steve IMHO you hav no reason to even be talking to her, let alone help her.
The firsts step towards her next episode was when everyone helped her move out.
You all saved her. So you’ll all save her again. That’s what you imprinted in her brain yet again.
If she crosses my boundaries I am going to the lawyer's office and filing the final paper for the D. Point blank and period. She will either learn from this or she wont thats that.
Steve do you really expect us to believe this?
She says she doesnt want to be in a relationship now but asks to rebuild ours slowly so she pretty much says "hang out with me and the kids, lets start over and take it slow, rebuilt the connection and go from there, dont expect to just pick up as if we are married and perfect.
So she the seven time cheater is calling the shots??? WTF??
She said she is afraid that I wont be able to let it go and if she does anything wrong ill explode on her and bring up OM and so on etc, she just needs time to see if we can do this before she agrees to move forward together" that is what she said.
This makes me want to punch myself in the face.
I do understand that she is concerned that I would be seriously pissed off and so on, anyone would.
WTF you should be pissed off!!!!!!!
But I am not holding on to anger, Im not holding on to anything here. I dont expect anything to really just magically get better. If we have not made any progress, if her actions don't match her words on our 10th anniversary coming up feb 19th im going to ask to push the divorce forward.
Just from what you just posted today her actions don't match her words.
I have not told her this but if she cannot start to work on the right path and show me something real in the next month and some change I got no reason to be married to her.
When is her first IC appointment?
RESPECT=LOVE
WHEN THERE IS NO RESPECT THERE CAN'T BE LOVE
Steve,
Hey buddy. Let's look at some small ways you could improve your interactions--
WW wanted to have the "talk" about our future. She asked me if I want to get the divorce, she said something told her not to do it and right now she is not sure if we should get the divorce and start over or just stay M. I told her that it was not important to me either way.
If she wants to talk, listen and validate. It sounded more like she wanted to get you to talk, a mix of a temperature check plus a sales pitch, "Do you want to buy this red car OR that blue car?!"
Her: "Do you want to get the divorce?"
Option 1: "I'm just focused on moving this table right now."
Option 2: "You brought it up. What are your thoughts?"
Her: "Something told me not to do it and right now I'm not sure if we s should get the divorce and start over or just stay M"
You: You do sound uncertain about what's next.
She told me she doesnt want to divorce me but needs to be alone and not with anyone for awhile. She has asked me to spend time with her and the kids daily since she moved in
Umm.. these are opposites! I agree with leaving her ALONE for a spell to allow her to figure herself out, to allow you to figure out your terms for R, and for her to decide if she wants it enough to bother.
she is afraid that I wont be able to let it go and if she does anything wrong ill explode on her and bring up OM and so on etc, she just needs time to see if we can do this before she agrees to move forward together
It's bizarre she's setting the terms for R. You SHOULD NOT let go--for awhile--that she cheated on you 7 times. You SHOULD let go eventually, but anger can be useful in helping you find the strength you often struggle to find, strength that would feel good and probably increase her respect and attraction for you. You could harness it to set terms on R to protect yourself that take into account her past misdeeds. Letting her back too easily sets you up for the next time, and you and your kids have been on a roller coaster.
She said she is afraid that I wont be able to let it go and if she does anything wrong ill explode on her and bring up OM and so on etc,
Straight out of the cluster B users guide. Steve, do you see how if she makes herself the victim, then she's not accountable?
Instead of her saying "Steve, I hate myself for all the selfish things I've done in our relationship. I don't deserve you and I'm going to therapy to figure out my issues", she is saying "Steve, I know I cheated again and I don't to be alone while I look for another guy. My only concern is that you will be angry with me while I look for your replacement."
I can’t believe you believe anything this psycho says, quite honestly.
I dont believe anything she says lol. I only believe her actions. So far there has been two
1. stop the divorce
2. move to moms.
Words dont mean jack to me, she is full of em. In other news I went hiking solo yesterday at the lake was nice, and WW whined i didnt take her.. LOL she must be kidding.
Also had my orientation for psychotherapy from the actual VA today so looking forward to that, the dr warned it may be tough because they are hard on us with homework and so on. Im looking forward to it. I truly really dont believe anything my W says right now. I am starting to hear from friends and family for months I deserve better and Im starting to believe that. Ill get there. I am a LOT stronger than I was even 30 days ago.
When is her IC appointment?
Yes Steve, when is the appointment?
She has reached out to a LMFT that is looking to see if he can accept her insurance. Nothing yet, but I am friends with the therapist and he has his colleague on it. (conflict of interest reasons and so on) he wont see her personally but is working on getting acceptance from insurance.
Ahhh. The old insurance excuse. We've heard that 1000 times if we've heard it once.
If Steve sounds jaded, my own partner gave me the "Oh, insurance, scheduling.. it'll take a week, no two, no four." When I got serious (MC in our case), she got serious, and now they happen within 1-3 days. I set-up same-day appointments when my ex-wife was suicidal. That did take almost an hour of calls.
She said she is afraid that I wont be able to let it go and if she does anything wrong ill explode on her and bring up OM and so on etc, she just needs time to see if we can do this before she agrees to move forward together" that is what she said.
I've heard this same speech so many times, and it is nothing more than securing you as a backup plan. WW's have a knack for twisting things around and talk as if it's up to the H to do this & that before she agrees to go back to him. It's verse two of the old song, "It's all my husband's fault". Look, you are the betrayed, so it should be obvious who calls the shots for reconciliation.
Although I've not met her in person, I can tell she is not remorseful yet. Women can turn on tears and have the sad face when it works for them. If nothing else, what she said in the quote above is showing a woman who is not humble nor remorseful. Plus, she talks out of both sides of her mouth.
This is a critical time, Steve. This is when you really need to pump up GAL (without her involved in it). She wants you available for her (and of course, she makes sure to throw in the kids, b/c she uses them to her benefit). She doesn't want to set you free, yet
she wants to be free. So all that malarkey about no interest in dating, means nothing! I'd dare say she is already looking around for the next guy. How nice for her, living with her parents, having you show up everyday to hangout, and being free to see other men. She even has built in babysitters.
She hooks you by waving the reconciliation cue card without mentioning that she's willing to do specific & necessary work..... or asking YOU what
she would have to do to save the M. Look at it again. She's worried about which person?
Herself! She doesn't want to feel uncomfortable. So, yeah, she had rather just pick back up without actually following any type of piecing plan. And you? Do you know what needs to be put in place, in order to heal and work on the MR together? Have you read any posts that talk about a plan or stipulations? If you just let her waltz back through the door without having
her agreement to full transparency and no contact of any type with OM, and
her agreement to professional marriage therapy.........then you're set for another repeat of the same old cr@p. I'm pretty sure I've posted to you on this very subject.
I dont expect anything to really just magically get better. If we have not made any progress, if her actions dont match her words on our 10th anniversary coming up feb 19th im going to ask to push the divorce forward. I have not told her this but if she cannot start to work on the right path and show me something real in the next month and some change I got no reason to be married to her.
I suggest you don't tell her. If you want to set a date for yourself, there's no need to tell her she has to show you she's working to change. Here's the reason why. She can pretend to show you enough breadcrumbs, you'll convince yourself she
is trying to change. Since you aren't detached as much you need to be, you're still hanging on to any grain of hope. It's easy to see what you want to believe. One reason for detaching is to help you stay objective and have 20/20 vision in what's really going on.
This critical time is where so many LBH's fail, b/c they let the WW come back too easily. Please post as often as you can. When we don't hear from you for several days, it worries me! ((hugs))
I warned you about this just over a week ago...
"She's not done with you yet, Steve. WW's are savage creatures. In the next few weeks, she's gonna pull out the big guns and you need to be prepared. She's gonna cry, tell you how much she loves you, and how bad she screwed up. Maybe about how OM is a monster and abusive. And you're gonna go right back to old behaviors to try to be the hero and save her. Trust me. I've been there. You need to have it cemented in your head that this is all part of the script and she doesn't mean any of it. I'm afraid if you're not prepared, she's gonna melt you like a popsicle on a hot day and you're right back where you started."
I know you have yourself convinced that you did the right thing, but helping her move was not what you needed to do. Her mess. Her problem. You could've just watched the kids that day or something, but you did not need to physically help her move. You just tattooed PLAN B on your forehead.
I also saw this quote you made in your last post of your previous thread in regard to something sge said while you were moving her crap. "Im a Nurse, I like to fix broken things and heal people, im not an archaeologist I dont want to dig up the past". Not gonna lie. I kind of got sick to my stomach when I read that. To me, that translates to, "It's OK, baby. I'm here to make everything better now. Everything you did and all those guys you screwed in the past doesn't matter" It made you look WEAK...
I'm sorry if I sound like I'm being mean, but you seem like a good guy and I wish you could see what everyone else does. This woman is no good. You made it through the hard part. I'd hate to see y0ou get sucked back in and have to go through it all again. Because you will if you give her another chance...
She has zero consequences, you have no boundaries and she gets to call the shots.
DUDE YOU NEED BOUNDARIES AND YOU NEED TO ENFORCE THEM.
You like her attention. You are hoping that she will come back to you in some kind of miraculous way where she is suddenly "fixed".
That is a fantasy.
You have to be realistic, man. I know how bad it scks but you can't keep letting her string you along like this. If you don't stop, you are setting yourself up.
My XW said all kinds of stuff like that. A couple years after our D, XW and I went to dinner and she told me that she feels like she just needs to "work on herself" because if she "can't be good on her own she can't be good with another person in her life". I agreed. Couple days later she was banging some dude she met at a bar. Lol. She says things like this to me a lot, and then does the opposite. It's fine with me, I'm completely detached now but she is still out there doing girls gone wild. Her son tells me all about it, and it hurts him pretty badly.
You have got to break these puppet strings she has tied to you.
MTB I get it, and Joe im not saying your wrong either.
I said that comment about digging up the past because I was there to move furniature and get my kids out of that apt with OM and his kids not talk about the R. I have made it clear to her that what she did devastated me. She has said "I f'd up your life" she is aware of how painful what she did was to me, the kids and after her FIL ripped her a new one when she returned, to the rest of us. I wasnt there to cry a river about my pain or to recon, I was trying to get my kids to a stable environment. I can see how in the different context it can seem different.
Each time her and I have had issues I do 100% effort to reconcile I begged, pleaded, jumped over my own head.
This time I do not call, I do not text, I do not make plans. I do nothing but my own thing. (I will be reading over your stuff Sandi, I will be taking this very very slowly and carefully).
She makes all the calls, texts, asks me to come over, talks about the future, tries to talk about the R, I do not. I will not. And still I do not trust her or believe anything she says. She is confused and Im a framiliar man she can trust im sure thats all it is for now. Time will tell but I do not hold out hope she will truly change. But we will see, some people do when enough of thier life is messed up, when they hurt enough people. But still, I dont hold out much hope for her at this point. I never want to be thrown away like I was again, never want to feel what i went through again, I will be EXTREMELY careful with myself. I have my own life now, I do not need her, the fact she gets any of my time is a blessing that she does not deserve, And that's how I see it right now.
the fact she gets any of my time is a blessing that she does not deserve, And that's how I see it right now.
Hey man if you want to continue blessing her like you have been, then you can't be upset at anyone but yourself when she crushes your heart again.
Steve_, where I see you struggle is when you WANT to do something you shouldn't, like helping her move. You were able to talk yourself into it to "help get your kids out of OM's house". What you fail to see is that these are little tests for your WW. To see how much she wanted out of OM's house. To see how much she really might be interested in a future with you. More than likely your discussion with her leading up to her moving went something like this:
Her: "I want to move out, it is over with me and OM. I want to know if there is a future for you and me."
You: "Are you really going to move out?"
Her: "Yes, but I have no where to go but to my parents."
You: -deep down excited, not for the kids but for yourself- "When are you moving?"
Her: "I'd like to this Sunday, but I don't have any help." or "I'd like to this Sunday if you can help." Depends on how subtle she was trying to be.
You: "Yes, I can help!"
I know there may be variations in how it went, but the point is that she was trying to manipulate you into rescuing her.
Imagine if:
Her: "I want to move out, it is over with me and OM. I want to know if there is a future for you and me."
You: "I can see you feel strongly about it being over with OM"
Her: "Yes, it is over, I want out but I have no where to go but to my parents."
You: "I can completely understand, I was in the same place just a couple of months ago.
Her: "I'd like to move this Sunday, but I don't have any help." or "I'd like to move this Sunday if you can help." Depends on how subtle she was trying to be.
You: "I will be glad to take the kids (if you don't already have them) so that you can take care of your move." or if you already have them "I have made plans for the kids and me for Sunday. Let me know when you are moving so I can make sure my schedule allows me to take the kids that day."
Nope, she snapped her fingers, Steve_ jumped again.
You continue to avoid my question: WHEN IS YOUR NEXT IC SESSION?
I see what you mean Steve, yeah that does look bad now that you put it that way.
my next IC is with the VA hospital now, I just did the orientation and got an appointment for the 19th.
The provider I spoke with once and he had started me on some anti-depressants. Otherwise Ill begin
what the VA calls psycho-therapy on Tuesday.
Rooting for you buddy.
Dive head first into your therapy and commit to it. I know you’re a Psyche Nurse so I’m sure you understand that change takes time, a lot of time.
Tuesday could very well be the beginning a new life for you. Which path will you take? A repeat of your painful and devestating past, and teaching your children dysfunctional relationship skills? Or freedom, growth, stability, and happiness?
You can do this, Steve. I know you can.
I warned you about this just over a week ago...
"She's not done with you yet, Steve. WW's are savage creatures. In the next few weeks, she's gonna pull out the big guns and you need to be prepared. She's gonna cry, tell you how much she loves you, and how bad she screwed up. Maybe about how OM is a monster and abusive. And you're gonna go right back to old behaviors to try to be the hero and save her. Trust me. I've been there. You need to have it cemented in your head that this is all part of the script and she doesn't mean any of it. I'm afraid if you're not prepared, she's gonna melt you like a popsicle on a hot day and you're right back where you started."
I refer to this as the "steering wheel", chump lady calls it the "charm/rage/self pity cycle" - it's best to be prepared to see it before it comes - it's whatever they can use to "steer" your emotions - manipulation.
Doesn't matter if she's doing it intentionally or knowingly. As soon as you see it - you will know you are being manipulated.
W will know what will make you act(your kids, getting them out of OM's house, her and kids 'safety') etc. I would pay attention to how she responds when you tell her No. That's usually when it's more evident.
Glad you are taking care of yourself! IC has changed my life and I highly recommend it!!
Take care of yourself!
There is only so much advice you can read before you start taking it. Thank you guys. I had to stand up to this tonight and look it in the eyes. Last night my wife invited me over for dinner and then we slept in the bed together with my daughter I stayed overnight. She was telling our baby how nice it is to be together, how happy she was about it and going to trips and etc as a family.
Today she posts on social media a pic of her in a towel from the shower with cleavage and it says “officially accepting applications for hiking and travel buddies”
I called her up at work as said tf is that? You are having me stay the night, telling our kids that you want to be a family and then posting up stuff like that to get attention from men? Wtf... you agreed it’s me you and the kids and nobody else why would you post that. I got zero issue with you being with the girls, family, friends that are chicks and good people but that post was inappropriate. She said “I don’t want to be in a relationahip right now, your acting like we are married and you want to tell me what I can and can’t do, we still have a lot to work out before we get back together and I am not ready for that”
I told her today okay: no problem. I am fine with living apart it’s kind of fun dating again, I’m okay with spending time with you it’s been really nice to have quality time with you and the kids. But your getting our hopes up and the kids and our family is so happy, but you want to be single. I can’t do that. I’m sorry. If you want to do that I would like to continue the divorce. Or you need to respect our relationship and be invested in it. We cannot be married while you act as if you are single. Figure it out but I won’t tolerate that ever again. I will support you if you want to get divorced I’m okay with it. But I don’t want to spend time with you anymore Because I don’t want me and the kids getting hurt all over again unless your committed to working on each other and our M.
I am scared she will go the way I don’t want (single) but at this point I am losing nothing because I do not have her and I am sick and tired of being jerked around like a dumbass. I embraced the fear when I was in Iraq getting shot at and got the job done, I need to soldier up, buckle down and stand up for what I want. That’s what I’m doing. I will update if there is any update. At this point I expect to be D’d in a couple months and that’s okay.
I'm sorry, Steve.
Now that you've told her what you will and will not tolerate, I would HIGHLY suggest NOT having any more talks with her. I would also not spend any more time with her.
Consider this a lesson learned the hard way.
Maybe you could read your thread back and look a the advice given and see where the vets were coming from and what you did/didn't do? In the book, MWD talks about doing what works and not doing what doesn't work.
Sometimes it helps if we can see it with our own eyes.
Pay attention to her actions (seeking attention on FB) NOT her words. She is telling you who she is, so now it's time for YOU to decide how you want to live.
Once you truly let go of the fear of D - everything will change. You will make choices that are good for you and your kids and not what will "get her back". I can't recall a single sitch that involved 'nicing' the W back. I doubt you will find any. The only way forward for you is to work on yourself. You are a badass. You've just forgotten. Yes, soldier up and move forward!! You can do this!
I agree 100%. I had To just stop. Her sister invited me to her birthday tonight I went but I paid 0% attention to the wife. The family loves me they openly pushed to recon for us. I got up and I left early I never do that. I hugged and loved on everyone but her. My son came running to the driveway after me I hugged him. She got nothing. She deserves nothing. For once I don’t feel bad. She hurt me and it’s okay for me to be done. So many people love me if one woman doesn’t it’s her loss. I feel not great but also okay. Thanks everyone. It’s been really hard.
Steve_, I’m sorry bro that [censored]. I remember sitting in a divorce group therapy session, my first one ever. I’m sitting there crying and I tell them “I’ve had people try to kill me before, and it never felt this scary.” You know what I mean. You go out on patrol and you expect to get shot at eventually. Something is gonna go down one day, so you prepare and train for it.
But not here. You never prepared for this. You got caught off guard. The wounds cut deep, and they scare you. The betrayal. The gaslighting. The abuse. How it affects your kids. None of it is what you expected in a million years.
You need to retreat to a safe position and regroup. I don’t think you have even read Sandi’s rules, and if you did you need to read them again. And again. You should also look into reading “No More Mr. Nice Guy”.
You need to build your team. You need a therapist. (At the very least use your EAP benefits). You need close friends to tell you when you’re being dumb. You need to select a GOOD attorney... not the cheapest or first one in the google search. The BEST one you can get. Ask people you know who have been divorced, they will tell you who to use and who NOT to use.
Your WW is not who she used to be. And that’s normal, which is scary and seems surreal. But the good news is that they all do the same things. The SAME things, seriously... that’s how so many of us have watched your situation go down exactly like we thought it would. Because there is an unwritten wayward spouse handbook. It is almost like a collective consciousness mental disorder amongst waywards.
Get counseling. Get an attorney. Nobody is coming. You have to save yourself.
Steve,
How can we help you?
Why do you come to this board?
Do you realize that what you are doing to your children is borderline criminal IMO?
I know you read 3% man at least 7 times. Is anything your doing right now applicable to the book?
Would anything you’ve read in any book suggest your STBXW is a good relationship partner?
Please don’t wait for her to initiate the divorce. YOU have to do it to protect yourself and those babies. Those poor kids.
You know the way you feel when she plays these games and gets your hopped up on to crush them?
Imagine how your innocent children are feeling?!? You BOTH are doing the same thing to her.
You are participating. If you aren’t going to stop this sick game for yourself. Stop it for you children
Steve,
I have frequently posted about kids kids kids..
Like a drug addict, you are selfish..
Really selfish and the kids suffered, yet again.
Not good parenting Steve.. however you try to justify your actions..
Wake up and man up!
Steve_, you need therapy. Your problems are bigger than this board can help with. You've been told by multiple people exactly what she was going to do. She does it and you still don't take the advice. Accepting invites from her to stay over. And then completely losing it when she continues acting single. At this point you should be further along in your understanding of how this works and how you should be interacting with her. And more importantly how you should not be interacting with her.
Good luck Steve_, I'll keep you in my prayers. I may even check into your thread from time to time. But until you commit to therapy you'll continue to allow this woman to hook you, reel you in, and then throw you back.
Oh man....
Steve, do some research on trauma bonds.
I think you need to make a decision, Steve.
1. Get your W back and wait to get cheated on again and teach your son/daughter what to look for in a future partner.
Or
2. Heal. Get better. Teach your kids to never tolerate cheating or manipulation. Find a good woman.
The kicker is you can’t choose both options. It’s one or the other. You decide.
There is only so much advice you can read before you start taking it.
I didn't spot DB in the above story--rescuing her, letting her fall back easily into family life after multiple affairs, talky-talky when her (consistent) behavior surprises you, an ultimatum.
I get your emotions control your actions, even when those actions run contrary to a great life for you and your kids without her, or a better life with her. You are one of two members on this board who I most feel need IC. It's promising that you are beginning to explore IC. It would be great if you could reach a point where you could say, "I need to do X, because of Y", where you believe and could defend Y, and then "Do X". It would be great if you saw BD #7 instead of ruining your life as a wake-up call so you value yourself and no longer accept this. You don't want to live like this and teach your D this is an acceptable relationship.
Remember how long you've been putting this off, how many extensions the gods gave you, and you didn't use them. At some point you have to recognize what world it is that you belong to..
97Hope's written a bunch of great posts on separating love from attachment--
I had be completely real and honest about what our MR was - and not what I wanted it to be nor what it was for the first 15 years. While X was rewriting history - it appeared so was I - swinging the pendulum to the opposite direction.
I remember thinking one day - I wouldn't go on a second date with X, let alone a MR or LTR. A lot of healing came with that realization. But also a lot of grief. It was sad to let him go. But reality was what it was and I was strong enough to admit it.
But the love remains. And it's not because he's father of my children etc. It's because I choose to. I grew up with and shared more than 1/2 of my life with that man. Yes, he changed. His behaviors now, who he is now, fundamentally - mean that I have to stay away from him - physically and emotionally.
You have been getting spectacular advice all along Steve.
At least try to listen and follow some of it. Make a decision every day.
There’s sure is a lot you should be doing but other have already told you and I am not sure you will listen.
But please Steve, try and go NC with her now. Real NC.
No communication at all! If she goes crazy, ask her to send emails if absolutely necessary.
Aim for a month (at first) and do AT LEAST a weeks stretch to begin with. Please Steve, please!
You have been getting spectacular advice all along Steve.
At least try to listen and follow some of it. Make a decision every day.
There’s sure is a lot you should be doing but other have already told you and I am not sure you will listen.
But please Steve, try and go NC with her now. Real NC.
No communication at all! If she goes crazy, ask her to send emails if absolutely necessary.
Aim for a month (at first) and do AT LEAST a weeks stretch to begin with. Please Steve, please!
I agree. Steve_ needs to go no contact and change to email only communication. The only communication right now should be about the kids and business.
There is only so much advice you can read before you start taking it. Thank you guys. I had to stand up to this tonight and look it in the eyes.
It's good you stood up and looked "it" in the eyes. Do you know what "it" was?
I'm wondering if you have tried to grasp DBing with all the books and new information you've read........but there's something you aren't linking together, or you're misunderstanding the timing of when where and how. If you don't understand the basic, then you'll continue to miss the mark.
The biggest issue standing in your progress, IMHO, is that you won't let go of your W. By that, I mean everything you do and say is linked to getting her back. And it's this very thing that causes you to leap when you should change nothing and hold the line.
You have to cut the rope you have tied to her, in order to save yourself......and hopefully, save your children. Steve, do you understand why board members were upset that you spent the night with your W? Although there was no sex, you and W slept in the same bed...... with your five year old child. Some people don't have a problem with their child sleeping in the bed with them, but this isn't the heart of what I'm talking about this night. It is the mental/emotional effect it has on a child to experience living with parents who split, and one parent (mother) has another adult (OM) move in and sleep in daddy's place. Then suddenly, OM is gone and mom & daddy are sleeping together, with the child, and telling her they are going to be together again. If you think this will not shape how she develops, and especially how she relates to men and women relationships........just wait.
You were determined to make sure your kids got moved out of their mom & OM's love nest. You wanted to be on the scene, b/c it was as a big deal to you. Okay, I don't know if you thought there would be a physical altercation with OM......but whatever, its' okay. My point here is the emotional/mental protection your child needs. Kids need a little time to adjust when they are experiencing these big life changing events. You and the mom may be still legally married, and the child may have been delighted to hear what mom was saying, but it was a lot emotionally to pour on her at one time (physically sleeping together and being told a fantasy). IMHO, it would have been better for her to see that OM is really gone for good, and that her parents are being friendly and causally spending a few minutes together once in a while. But for the two of you to go from an invite for dinner at the house, to sleeping together the same evening.......and with the five yr old child, seems way too much......and way too fast. (Did you hear anything about why you don't allow a WW to come back too soon and too easily?)
Being a good dad and putting your kids first.........is not defined by just playing with them when it's your turn to have them. Some dads try to be like Santa Clause and/or compete with the mom to be the most loved parent. This is not putting what's best for the kids first. I'm not accusing you, I'm just saying this isn't all there is to being a great dad. Now that your W has once again said she doesn't want to be in a MR with you.........how will that be explained to this child? She just went through sleeping between her parents and hearing how they are going to be family again. Do you see what I'm trying to tell you? She was given false security by her parents only to have it snatched away by her parents. Can you see the whole psychological picture of sleeping between mommy & daddy, while hearing how wonderful the future will be? Do you understand how a little child learns to distrust signs of comfort, closeness, security, hope, etc.? Wasn't this what was offered the little girl? Maybe it all came from her mother, but where was daddy? What was daddy saying?
I'm not trying to beat you up. I really want you to understand what we are trying to say. You cannot afford to make changes or decisions based solely on your W, b/c she is too messed up. She's going to have her kids as messed up as she is, if they have nobody looking out for them. As a man and a father, you must follow your moral integrity, values, standards, etc..........or turn to someone who has these things and can teach you how. We keep telling you to leave her alone while you heal and do right toward your children. Why do you think we all say those things to you?
I'd just like to know what the heck you were thinking when you went from accepting a dinner invitation at her house to spending the night there. Well.......I think I can guess at what you were thinking......
"Reconciliation here I come"...... but maybe my real question is did your brain think about any of the board's warnings? Steve,
true reconciliation will not come like your W tried to portray that night. It's just not that simple anymore. Too much has happened, and too much damage has been caused. To think dinner and a sleep-over is how you begin a R, is not realistic. It's the movies, but not real life. Your W may have mental issues or whatever, but it just adds to the problem. She's not ready to settle down and be a faithful wife. She pulled one of the oldest tricks of waywards......except, sex is usually involved. I think that's why she had the child sleep in the same bed, so there wouldn't be sex . This is nothing more than emotional manipulation. When a wayward gets
serious about coming back to the MR, they will ask what they need to do (what work do they need do, what changes do they need to make, etc.). Your W is nowhere ready. She's nowhere close to being serious.
So now you've called her out about her inappropriate stuff, and she tells you
this is how she's going to be. Now what, Steve? Seems nothing has changed with your W. Did you seriously think it had????
((hugs))
I told her today okay: no problem. I am fine with living apart it’s kind of fun dating again, I’m okay with spending time with you it’s been really nice to have quality time with you and the kids. But your getting our hopes up and the kids and our family is so happy, but you want to be single. I can’t do that. I’m sorry. If you want to do that I would like to continue the divorce. Or you need to respect our relationship and be invested in it. We cannot be married while you act as if you are single. Figure it out but I won’t tolerate that ever again. I will support you if you want to get divorced I’m okay with it. But I don’t want to spend time with you anymore Because I don’t want me and the kids getting hurt all over again unless your committed to working on each other and our M.
Steve, see above edit, this should have been the extent of the conversation. You think you're giving her an ultimatum, but you're not. You're continuing to try and negotiate with her. Don't negotiate with a terrorist.
And Steve, keep posting, it's been 3 days and you're in the thick of it.
And Steve, keep posting, it's been 3 days and you're in the thick of it.
This^^^^
And especially post and get advice before you act. So few LBSs do this, but the ones that do are the ones that struggle with DBing the least.
An update. Lot has happened.
Wife continues the story that she wants to be friends, doesn’t want more and wants me to give her room to breathe without rules right now. Essentially it’s “let me do what I want or you lose me” I swallowed that pill for a few days on the premise she wasn’t trying to be with anyone else. I come by like a idiot to bring her chocolate because I made a big deal about having no more OM’s and she was not home. Turns out she went to OM’s place for various excuses. I lost it. Lied to again. Called her sister/ BFF and unloaded. Her sister unloaded on her for giving me and my kids hopes. OM finds out I love my wife still and begs me for forgiveness says he will end it with her and he doesn’t want To marry her. OM says that he has no idea why she would leave a man like me. WW gets pissed she got busted, denies any emotional reasons for going there, calls me a stalker etc etc and reiterated how she wants to have no rules and so as she wants but be friends and rebuild our relationship.
Well I went there and saw her to drop the kids. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks. I was like.... I’m still in love with you WW I cannot sit here and pretend to be buddies and pals and get my own hopes up or my kids hopes up. I want to have a relationship we feel happy In, your not happy when you feel like you have to be with me. And I’m not happy being only a friend. I want you to be with me and faithful to me and for us to be together. You don’t want that. It breaks my heart but I have to be honest we are not on the same page. She asked me to contact the lawyer to finish the divorce tomorrow. And that is exactly what I will do. Enough people have told me I am good man that they all can see loves her and she’s a moron. I realize that being friend zoned means no respect from her or my kids and most importantly myself. I may lose my wife but at least I won’t have to hate myself for being a little B and letting her dictate the rules of our M when she walked out of it. I’m scared, I’m hurt but I won’t lie to my W. I’m not okay with just being friends. And if I went along with that it’s more pain for me and my kids. So I will finish the D this week and it hurts but I feel I am doing the right thing.
Steve,
I hate to say it but your W is right you do come off like a stalker. You don’t listen to her. In fact you don’t listen to anyone. Continue your therapy and be a rock for your children. That’s all you can do.
An update. Lot has happened.
Really? Seems like more of the same to me.
Essentially it’s “let me do what I want or you lose me”
“Great, enjoy your new life, all the best!”
I have written about why it doesn't work for the H trying to be just friends with his WW. You have pretty much said what I've tried to explain to others. When the H goes along with the WW wishes to be just friends, he has a completely different mindset from his WW's mindset. He thinks that being her friend will eventually draw her back into a MR. It doesn't. It does not work with wayward wives. She really doesn't want anything more but to be friends, and she will "use" his availability and will continue to manipulate him like crazy.
I come by like a idiot to bring her chocolate because I made a big deal about having no more OM’s and she was not home.
Steve, you don't get it. The problem has never been OM! You seriously think if OM wasn't in the picture she would be ready to do the necessary work to reconcile? No, the real problem is your WW's mindset. Her heart is cold and rebellious. Her words could be taken out of the WW's manual. She's like a teenager. She wants the benefits of both worlds (single and married), without responsibility. She wants to be free to do whatever she desires, and give no account to anyone.
Enough people have told me I am good man that they all can see loves her and she’s a moron.
I've watched your posts and see how often you write about other people taking your side or think you are a good guy. You talk with her sister, and seem to feel better when she gets mad at WW and tells her off. You've talked about how much your in-laws love you, and how other people like you and see you as a good man. What is this all about? Even the OM bows out b/c you're such an incredible man........and he begs for your forgiveness?
I'll tell you why I think board members get so concerned when a newcomer suddenly goes silent during a crucial point in the sitch. Timing is critical, and usually the newcomer doesn't want to hear our advice about something recently happening. In other words, he just wants to go with his heart and use the same behavior as in previous times. I remember working with more than one LBH who had horrendous WW's, and at the most critical point of the sitch, they suddenly dropped out of sight. So, I'm really glad you've given an update. Don't stop posting just b/c of divorce.
I may lose my wife but at least I won’t have to hate myself for being a little B and letting her dictate the rules of our M when she walked out of it.
IMHO, this statement links with what I previously said about your lack of self esteem.
I’m scared, I’m hurt but I won’t lie to my W.
Instead of making it sound as if your honesty is attached to your W (like she's so special)........it should be based on your integrity. Make sense? You are a honest man b/c of you.....and it has nothing to do with her.
So I will finish the D this week and it hurts but I feel I am doing the right thing.
This is what separates the boys from the men.
(((hugs)))
So I will finish the D this week and it hurts but I feel I am doing the right thing.
Steve,
Doing the right thing is a lot more than filing for Divorce.
Thats like an addict going to addicts annonymous.... Wooo.. You came to AA ... Doesnt mean you are no longer an addict.
In your case, you continue to ignore advice and follow your own path...
You suffer, your kids suffer and you still don't get it.
I wonder if you ever will - as thats your issue - WILL - You have zero will power to break this addiction.
I feel sooooo sorry for your children.
You cant control how bad their mother is.. You could offer then a rock for the time they are with you.. That doesnt seem to be the case, which is very sad.
File for D.
NC for her (meaning never ever in you life talk to her again), email about kids only.
IC for you. Preferably once a week for at least 2-3 years.
Thats it.
Probably wont comment on your thread more.
Your poor children. LH says be a rock for your children, but you are being the complete opposite.
Your poor kiddos have no rocks right now . Just 2 parents that are playing some really twisted games and they are the ones who will end up paying the price.
You brought childcare’s to a woman who is evil. Makes sense
Steve, good luck. I hope for nothing but the best for you in the future.
Hey Steve - what's the definition of insanity?
This was sad to read but not at all surprising. She told you she didn’t want a relationship. I don’t know why her acting as if she’s not in a relationship was so surprising.
You can not control her no matter how much you attempt too by being nice, or giving ultimatums or running to her family every time she upsets you. (Btw, you really need to stop running to her family for more than one reason) She is her own person with her own ability to make decisions. Right now she is making decisions that show she has very little self respect but even less for you as a partner.
This reads (and I hope I’m wrong) like everything you’ve done has been for yourself and nothing is or has been about the kids. You need to start focusing on your children and stop worrying about your W and what she’s doing.
There’s no possible way you being in love with her hit you like a ton of bricks. You’ve made that crystal clear in every single post. You need to start being honest with yourself so you can face reality and really make some good progress in the future with yourself, kids and therapy.
Just as FYI being friends with your ex doesn’t hurt your kids. It hurts you and only you. I personally know couples that are divorced and still good friends and co-parent very well and their kids are happy, adjusted, and most importantly loved. Your children are not a tool to attempt to control her. You also have claimed in previous post you wonder if your W was neglecting your children and you were going to start documenting things and potentially restricting access. It really feels like you only did this to attempt to control your W looking back. I am really curious what was the point of that. Was it to document things in an attempt to tell your W if you stay with the OM you’ll keep the kids away from her? Because if she was this neglectful mother worth documenting why are you so adamant you two get back together and live together and be together. Why can you not put your children ahead of yourself? Why can you not be their rock?
Good luck Steve. You are at a major crossroads in your life. You don’t seem to have any respect for yourself so I’m not sure how you can expect anyone else too either. You are teaching your children that both you and your W behavior is acceptable.
Free yourself now man. Be the role model for your kids,
You need to start DB, would you?
Be the healthy parent.
Respect. No fear!
Hi Steve,
An update. Lot has happened.
You still seem to be doing whatever your emotions dictate--they're a roller coaster--and then posting "After Action" reports. Consider slowing down, giving your rational mind time to kick in, and posting daily to seek advice before acting. Also do one thing to make Steve better each day.
Enough people have told me I am good man that they all can see loves her and she’s a moron.
I don't buy into "Steve=good, Ex-wife=moron". I don't know if you'll post here again, but I bet you'll read this, so sending hugs and good thoughts your way. I hope you keep up the IC!
[quote]
The biggest issue standing in your progress, IMHO, is that you won't let go of your W. By that, I mean everything you do and say is linked to getting her back. And it's this very thing that causes you to leap when you should change nothing and hold the line.
You have to cut the rope you have tied to her, in order to save yourself......and hopefully, save your children.
Sandi, I wanted to chime in here and say I agree with this 100%.
One of the issues I had was letting my wife go. In the beginning of the separation she told me she should be allowed to make her own mistakes and fail. I told her why would you want to fail? You're in your 40s. Failure should be something you do in your teens and 20s.
In our entire marriage I took care of the finances. She has zero interest in budgeting and didn't even do the book keeping for her own business. I had to do all of that especially when tax season came round. She also did no maintenance on her car and would only change the oil or top it up when the oil light came on. These things didn't interest her until they became a problem, i.e. the car needed fixing.
So being a typical guy who likes to fix things and believes prevention is better than cure I would remind her to top her car fluids up even when she moved out last month. Because she picks my kids up and drops them off I didn't want to get that phone call that she can't make it because her car broke down due to her negligence. I didn't want to see her struggle with a broken car, but she hated it. She said I was "controlling" but all I was trying to do was take preventative action. I even told her to set alarms on her phone to remind her to check the oil as it leaked and needed topping up once a week.
I also got on her case about giving my daughter medication as she would forget. Again, I'm called controlling. Now I just have to trust that she does it. This particular medication has to be given to my daughter three times a day.
Am I being controlling by reminding her? Or is it better to let her fail because of her negligence.
Hi Drh2001,
In the beginning of the separation she told me she should be allowed to make her own mistakes and fail.. I would remind her to top her car fluids up even when she moved out last month.. I even told her to set alarms on her phone to remind her to check the oil as it leaked and needed topping up once a week.. She said I was "controlling" but all I was trying to do was take preventative action.
Hi Drh2001,
Easy--you were attempting to control her. At least you were a benevolent dictator, genuinely interested in a good outcome (the car not breaking down, the kids not being picked up late) rather than praise. I let my ex-wife face natural consequences. The first couple of times she was late, I bailed her out. The next few times, the daycare let it slide. Then they charged her $5/minute late. The 15-20 minute tardies stopped and she became the parent always there 10 minutes early instead of 5 minutes late.
I also got on her case about giving my daughter medication as she would forget. Again, I'm called controlling.
With the medical situation, the natural consequences fall on your D. I've been okay presenting as a controlling arse to my ex-wife and invoking doctors, teachers, and CPS over child health issues.
Hi Drh2001,
In the beginning of the separation she told me she should be allowed to make her own mistakes and fail.. I would remind her to top her car fluids up even when she moved out last month.. I even told her to set alarms on her phone to remind her to check the oil as it leaked and needed topping up once a week.. She said I was "controlling" but all I was trying to do was take preventative action.
Hi Drh2001,
Easy--you were attempting to control her. At least you were a benevolent dictator, genuinely interested in a good outcome (the car not breaking down, the kids not being picked up late) rather than praise. I let my ex-wife face natural consequences. The first couple of times she was late, I bailed her out. The next few times, the daycare let it slide. Then they charged her $5/minute late. The 15-20 minute tardies stopped and she became the parent always there 10 minutes early instead of 5 minutes late.
I also got on her case about giving my daughter medication as she would forget. Again, I'm called controlling.
With the medical situation, the natural consequences fall on your D. I've been okay presenting as a controlling arse to my ex-wife and invoking doctors, teachers, and CPS over child health issues.
CWarrior,
You're right. I was being benevolent but it was still controlling. I'm also a bit of a helicopter parent. I have some family members who dropped out of high school, got evicted, homeless etc and I was determined I didn't want to be one of those parents who failed their kids. So I put out fires before they got too big - although I missed the wildfire right in front of me with my WW leaving for OM and exposing my kids to her adulterous liaison.
I don't like seeing people fail unnecessarily. I'm not a rescuer but sometimes people have to attend the school of hard knocks to learn - but it's so much easier if they learn first - but not everyone is like that.
Just as FYI being friends with your ex doesn’t hurt your kids. It hurts you and only you. I personally know couples that are divorced and still good friends and co-parent very well and their kids are happy, adjusted, and most importantly loved.
The definition of friends:
a person whom one knows and with whom one has a bond of mutual affection, typically exclusive of sexual or family relations.JMHO, the word "friends" is carelessly used referring to the relationship the LBS has with the spouse that betrayed them. I think the word is used when actually meaning the couple stopped tearing each other apart whenever they need to discuss child related or business type issues. Often, couples are
civilized in their interactions, and some people may interpret that as being friends. It takes time to qualify as friends. Don't confuse a respectful and trusted friendship.......with the action of friend-
ly manners........or an upbeat interaction. If you have a friendly personality, does that mean you are automatically friends with everyone? I have been described, IRL, to have a friendly personality, but I assure you I don't consider everyone a friend. I'm just friendly!
In cases of a wayward spouse, there needs to be a space of time after the bomb drop, before becoming chums. Here again, the faithful spouse should consider what it means to be friends. There needs to be some healing in the individual lives, if they expect to be friends in the future. And, what about trust? What if the wayward spouse continues to manipulate? Your ex was once the most important person in your life. However, there was a
reason for the breakup. Usually, trust has been violated and there has been betrayal.
I'll share some things I read on this subject.
1. Allow yourself time to grieve. (Don't rush into a friends relationship.)
2. Take baby steps. (The wayward spouse that wanted out of your M, hasn't changed. So, be very cautious embarking on any type of relationship.)
3. Hang out as friends. (I really don't agree with this, and I can explain if asked).
4. Don't become intimate. (Once intimate, it kind of changes the status of friendship....wouldn't you agree?)
5. Build trust. (How are you going to build trust with a liar & cheat?)
6. Focus on the good. (
)
There are so many arguments I could give for this list, but I'll spare. There's one however, I wants to bring up. If you go through the pain of a divorce, why would you want to "hang out" with that person. And as far as doing things "as a family"........why would you believe this would not confuse the children? Imagine if both divorced parents marry other people.......would the new spouses be fine with the divorced couple hanging out together or doing things as "their" family? TV sitcoms may want to present this type of coziness.......but I don't buy it. No way is the new spouse going set back and tell you to go have a good time with your adulterous ex-spouse. Oh, and have a good time with the ex-spouse and the children born from that marriage, while the new spouse babysits any other children. No, there are too many problems with the whole thing.
I say keep the relationship with the ex-spouse
civilized, if at all possible. Discuss nothing but the one link between you, which are the children, and have a new life that does not include the ex. I've seen people who could keep their interactions calm, polite, and even have a friendly sound. But they didn't hang out together like buddies. They didn't call to chat, or met up for lunch, of share family activities. Their children weren't confused or living on the edge of hope that every time they saw their parents together it meant maybe they would fall in love again and get back together.
Almost every WW story I've read, she wants to remain friends with LBH. Even at bomb drop, some will say they hope to remain friends.
(Yeah, just overlook the fact I've blew apart out M......and we can be pals.) She's the same manipulative and selfish woman and she sees the "friendship" as beneficial to herself. The LBH, in the meantime, thinks maybe the friendship will bring them back together in marriage. Although MWD leans toward the friendship idea, I, respectfully, disagree when the other spouse has been....and is currently wayward. No way, no how!
As you know, the subject of the wayward mindset is not included in her books, nor does she separate WS from WAS, but most of the cases on the board involves waywardness, IMHO. The successful divorce busting stories found on the forum, is actually more of a thank you letter to MWD. We don't have access to their actual threads. I remember Starsky trying to search for their names, b/c he wanted to read the full background story. Couldn't find anything. I'm not suggesting Michele created any of these letters, but I think newcomers want to read the full story of successful DBing, and these folks either didn't use their board names, or they weren't on the board.
Anyway, my point being that when it comes to a wayward spouse situation, you are dealing with a different creature than that of a walk-away spouse. There are several things the LBS can apply in either case (GAL, 180's, work on self improvement, etc) but more than not the case of waywardness requires a tough love approach due to the foundation of disrespect in the wayward. From what I've read, that's the last straw suggested by MWD. But by then it's too late, IMHO. The LBS should apply tough love the minute the bomb drops or contact with a third party is discovered.
Being friends with a wayward just makes no sense to me. I could accept how it
might work in a few cases with a wayward husband.........but not when the W is wayward (due to the differences in men & women).
Co-parenting doesn't mean friendship. If you can get along long enough to interact calmly, that should be good enoug for a long, long time..........even more if marriages to new people come along.
P.S. Joseph, thanks for coming to the board to post. I used a quote from your post to get me started here, but I'm not picking on
you. I think you've done a great job, but I also know you had to put distance between you and ex-WW due to her antics. (((hugs)))
Sandi I always appreciate your input and point of view and never would assume you’re picking on me.
The couples that I know that are friends, and they are absolutely friends, their marriages weren’t affected by affairs or wayward spouses. So there is absolutely a point to be made there about not being able to be friends or share secrets etc with a spouse and marriages that are affected by infidelity.
The point I was trying to make, is it doesn’t have to be an all or nothing situation. It doesn’t have to be all love or all hatred. Yes you can be kind or civil even in these situations if you can accept the reality of what is going on and who your spouses are. I personally don’t tend to see Steve’s spouse as a wayward spouse. I personally think she a narcissist on a level most haven’t seen. Her behavior isn’t new, her cheating isn’t new it seems to be who she is as a person. A significant character flaw.
But your point is still very valid. Being friends was a poor choice of words if you look at it that deeply. Being civil and co-parenting harmoniously while continuing to have self respect would have definitely been a better choice of words.
I just don’t want to see anyone use children as a threat or away to control the situation. For me, the pain of what my W did to me is something i can separate. Just because someone is a terrible spouse doesn’t mean they’re a terrible parent. I wish I could do 50/50 custody. I wish my kids did have both parents even if their parents aren’t living together.
I personally believe if Steve could accept her for what she is, and not hold onto the pain, not think that maybe she’ll change and come back, (again I don’t think she is a wayward, she’s always been incapable of monogamy) he would be the rock he needs to be for his kids. Because right now he isn’t. Right now his kids need him and he is still too focused on niceing and manipulating his W family in an attempt to win back his W. My hope, and maybe I’m wrong and way off base, is if he can start to see her as less than a W but more than absolutely nothing he can start to let go of the pain of his marriage and heal and be the better father his kids need. Because he’s too focused on one extreme or the next. Again just my opinion and I don’t ever want to give out bad advice that’s counter productive.
I have had a tough time getting it through my head, ive blamed my WW for playing mind games to manipulate me but honestly its my fault for allowing it. After talking with IC its a big lack of self-respect that I have and a huge fear that i'll lose her if I dont nice her back. Thus far nicing her has got me "friend zoned" so to add to the stack of times its been said "nicing her back doesnt work". Turns out of course shes told me more lies and OM actually broke up with her yesterday, Of course she lied and told me they arent going to see each other because they agreed, no lol its cause OM messaged me and told me he is done, But she doesnt know that. I for a moment last week wanted to believe her sob story that she learned her lesson, that she admitted she messed up. Then I got my hopes wayyyyyy up and yep they came crashing right back down.
At this point in my life I am just so overwhelmed with the amount of crap ive endured the last few months, and allowed myself to be affected by. My focus now is not letting things get to me ive done a terrible job.
I have had a tough time getting it through my head, ive blamed my WW for playing mind games to manipulate me but honestly its my fault for allowing it. After talking with IC its a big lack of self-respect that I have and a huge fear that i'll lose her if I dont nice her back. Thus far nicing her has got me "friend zoned" so to add to the stack of times its been said "nicing her back doesnt work".
As hard as it is - you would do better accepting the fact that you lost her even before BD.
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I see you guys talk a lot about being "friend-zoned" - I don't treat my friends like this. I'm guessing most of you don't either.
I know plenty of people who have "friends" that they call up when they are lonely, want sex or need the toiled plunged etc..but not any other time.
A friend cares about your life. A friend cares about your feelings. A friend considers you when something great happens, not just when the toilet is clogged. A friend won't harm you. Yes, sometimes words from a friend hurt (hey, I've noticed you are drunk when I call) but NEVER harm. Friends hold each other in high regard and treat each other with respect.
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Steve - you allowed it. But the blame for treating another human rests on your WW. Good that you are accepting your part in this. So going forward, choose how you are treated. Don't tell her "If you swing at me again, I'm going to step out of the way!" Just step out of the way!
Part of the process is seeing WAS/WS for who they are today. That's what makes it easier for us to be manipulated in the beginning. We aren't dealing with the spouse we knew and loved and trusted.
We are dealing with people who are willing to destroy families, spend tens of thousands of dollars, risk the loss of friends, reputation etc. - all to fill the void in their lives. All to "feel" better. Caring nothing for the devastation they leave in the wake.
Recognize who they are today, accept it and get the hell out of their way.
My focus now is not letting things get to me
Hi Steve, I want to share something I learned. Success isn't touching a stove and "not get burned" or "not let it get to you"--that's a trap trauma survivors fall into, one I've fallen into, a subconscious desire to relive a trauma with a better outcome. Success is on a different path--learning not to touch the stove.
Breakups cause pain. Breakups don't have to cause suffering.
With those caveats stated, I support your goal of being more resilient.
PS - OM betrayed you. I wouldn't believe anything that comes out of his mouth, either.
I agree with everyone, Steve.
This woman isn't your friend, unless you like to keep friends that lie to and manipulate you.
I would go complete and total pitch black NC with this woman. I would only communicate with her about your children via email so everything is documented.
Protect yourself.
Thanks Joseph, I agree with you.
The couples that I know that are friends, and they are absolutely friends, their marriages weren’t affected by affairs or wayward spouses. So there is absolutely a point to be made there about not being able to be friends or share secrets etc with a spouse and marriages that are affected by infidelity.
I think it makes a big difference in
why the couples got divorced, as to them becoming friends later.
I personally don’t tend to see Steve’s spouse as a wayward spouse. I personally think she a narcissist on a level most haven’t seen.
I think most WW's have narcissist traits (some more than others). However, I see what you are saying. The difference would be that a WW
could change, whereas, as narcissist wouldn't.
I personally believe if Steve could accept her for what she is, and not hold onto the pain, not think that maybe she’ll change and come back, (again I don’t think she is a wayward, she’s always been incapable of monogamy) he would be the rock he needs to be for his kids. Because right now he isn’t. Right now his kids need him and he is still too focused on niceing and manipulating his W family in an attempt to win back his W. My hope, and maybe I’m wrong and way off base, is if he can start to see her as less than a W but more than absolutely nothing he can start to let go of the pain of his marriage and heal and be the better father his kids need. Because he’s too focused on one extreme or the next. Again just my opinion and I don’t ever want to give out bad advice that’s counter productive.
I agree. I know you have a busy life, but maybe you could post a little more often to Steve, since you survived the W you had, and have grown as a man & as a father.
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Steve, I encourage you to read Joseph's story. Here's a man who made vast changes from the guy who first joined the board.
At this point in my life I am just so overwhelmed with the amount of crap ive endured the last few months, and allowed myself to be affected by. My focus now is not letting things get to me ive done a terrible job.
Wouldn't it work better for you to just stop taking crap........period? Why measure the amount, and why endure it? That's why you need boundaries, to protect your feelings and self respect. You have endured disrespect for so long until it became a way of life for you, and now you can't even respect yourself.
Time for that mess to stop right now. It's time for you to start respecting Steve. Okay, so you've done a terrible job by allowing "things" to get to you. I've been in that boat plenty of times, and have learned that you can overcome, but it's an ongoing challenge.
Do things get to you when it comes to
anyone........or are you specifically talking about your W and the sitch? If it's your W, then you really must stay away from her and stop communicating. MWD writes in DR about the technique after the LRT. IMHO, this is true "going dark". It's as if you fell of the plant (as for as your WW is concerned). She doesn't see or hear from you again. But here's the thing, Steve. You have to let go of the false hope that the two of you will reconcile. That's the thing that is preventing you from excelling. It's what causes you to believe every lie, and every manipulative trick. You buy into the magic formula theory that something will happen to bring her to her senses and see how much you love her. It has NOTHING to do about how much you love her. It has everything to do with how much (or little) she loves you. I knew my H loved me to the moon & back, but it didn't change how I felt. It's clear your W wants what she can't have.......but that's not love. It's not honorable.
I know how newcomers will always throw the excuse in about the kids, but if your kids are old enough to talk on the phone.......then why is it necessary for you to talk to the mother? I mean, seriously.
Last time you posted, something was said about moving through with the D. Did either of you act on it?
Steve - you allowed it. But the blame for treating another human rests on your WW. Good that you are accepting your part in this. So going forward, choose how you are treated. Don't tell her "If you swing at me again, I'm going to step out of the way!" Just step out of the way!
Part of the process is seeing WAS/WS for who they are today. That's what makes it easier for us to be manipulated in the beginning. We aren't dealing with the spouse we knew and loved and trusted.
We are dealing with people who are willing to destroy families, spend tens of thousands of dollars, risk the loss of friends, reputation etc. - all to fill the void in their lives. All to "feel" better. Caring nothing for the devastation they leave in the wake.
Recognize who they are today, accept it and get the hell out of their way.
This is really great Hope, thanks!
Am I being controlling by reminding her? Or is it better to let her fail because of her negligence.
I get the whole "fixer" mentality, but some H's go overboard and essentially do the thinking for the W. In other words, she's not held responsible to remember b/c she knows her H will take care of it......and/or remind her. I don't see it as you helping her not to fail, but I do see you being a rescuer, and it has done nothing to encourage her to take responsibility. I believe people like her have to experience natural consequences life gives when we're not grown up enough to take care of business. She resents you always reminding her, even though she's guilty of not being more responsible. She is like a teenager who wants to live her own life at the expense of making her own mistakes. It's hard when another person suffers from her negligence, but you have to let her grow up and experience consequences. If it's her fault, then she has to account for the negligence, rather than saying her H didn't remind her.
Wives get accused of "nagging" when she reminds her H. Husbands get accused of controlling when he reminds his W.
legally my ducks are in a row, my logical mind has been good with that.
emotionally I have messed up bad, this whole time. I let her string me along, didnt take the advice here to heart, thought I knew my W better. If I had really buckled down and actually DB'd right after BD I may have had more of a shot, but I dont think this M is worth saving anymore. I am truly dissapointed at emotially weak Ive been. Sure I could have done worse but could have done a hell of a lot better too. The IC has helped me see that by reacting to everything she does it gives her all the power over my life and my own feelings. I can chose to ignore impulses to act or give in and worsen the situation. Back when yall warned me to DB or its gonna be the next OM after this one I didnt think so, I thought she would for sure come back to me if she left OM. Yeah, that didnt happen. She is wanting to be single and free. But wants to spend time with me too and says "I see us together in the future just not right now" I just "need time to not be with anyone" blah blah blah. I give up, promised my IC Dr. I'd work on allowing myself to "give up" on the M. Should have a long time ago. Doubt ill have much more to say. If anything significant occurs ill update. Otherwise im pretty much just trying to forget about my W and my M and accept that my life is what it is.
Doubt ill have much more to say. If anything significant occurs ill update.
Hi Steve, you've said that a few times, and each time a ton changed between updates. If you plan to actually do the work, there will be challenges and changes every day, so keep posting. I hope you consider what I said about OM (your ex-bestie) also betraying you and not being great friend material. You can forgive someone, love them, and honor what was without re-integrating them into your life. Good luck!
Steve,
Let me give you some advice that has helped me. Unfortunately we both came here to this forum hoping to fix our marriages. Both of our spouses are serial cheaters, mental and emotional abusers. Mine just came with the added trait of being indicated child abuser.
Anyway, at first I came up with every excuse under the sun to justify my W's behavior. Heck, I even questioned if my kids were telling the truth at first about everything. From my W including them in the affair, to the abuse. My W says/may even have Huntington disease. Sadly, I wondered if I could use this as a lighthouse of hope that she would come back after she addressed her issues and "came to her senses" and would get help. (HA on that one).
There is a reality that I think you have to come to grips with, and it's the same reality I did. I'm going to be blunt, and it's not meant to hurt you. Your W doesn't care about you on any level at all. Not as a husband. Not as a father. Not as a man. Not as a person. Not as someone with feelings. In no way shape or form does your wife care about you. She cares about what you can do for her, and that's it. I pray her mentality isn't the same with your children, but we wouldn't know. You talk so little about your kids and focus so much on someone who doesn't deserve it.
So that's the reality I believe you need to accept. Here's the advice I can give.
1. Tell your lawyer what you want for custody, alimony is applicable, property split etc etc etc. Send it in writing and let them do their job and don't stress over that. I see a lot of posters that for some reason pay good money to a professional and than turn around and seem to wanna add that ball of stress to there basket.
2. Forgive yourself. You're gonna start blaming yourself for not seeing this behavior sooner, you may even get mad at yourself for wasting all this time on her when you could have started over years ago and been over this hump by now. Don't get caught up in the past and the should of, would of, could ofs.
3. Learn to love yourself Steve. Be kinder to yourself. Don't allow someone like this to hurt you anymore. This is beyond normal, this is beyond a mistake. This is willful destruction of herself and her family without a care of how it affected anyone else except her.
4. I know others have told you this, as have I. You are a single father now. You need to focus on your KIDS KIDS KIDS KIDS KIDS. I can't stress that enough. For the foreseeable future your life is about your kids. You'll be surprised how you won't feel as lonely. You'll start to notice things you never did before. The personalities, smiles, jokes they tell. I can almost guarantee you've got some lost time to make up for. There is no way with a W like yours, your attention wasn't on her far to much even before this latest episode of non-sense. I know I made that mistake because my W demanded the attention one way or another, and was very manipulative in terms of getting my attention solely on her and like a lost dog I followed her, and I lost precious time with my kids I'll never get back.
I also want to stress no matter what her family says, your previous in-laws, they are still her family first, be careful what you say. They will forgive her quicker than you realize.
Hang in there. I'm almost at the one year mark since my W walked out on everyone. She just had another mans baby and I honestly don't care. I'm too busy living my best life. Making up for lost time. Spending time with my kids. Watching TV shows I never did before. (BTW if you've never seen the office I can't recommend that enough). That sitcom got me laughing on some very dark days.There were days I didn't wanna live anymore. Days, I just didn't feel a thing. Days I never thought I'd go through. But now....I wouldn't change a thing. I live everyday, i laugh everyday, I love everyday, I am loved everyday. Everyday is a gift because I am not weighed down by someone that was out to hurt me and my kids and I was to ignorant to see it. Not every marriage can be saved, but more importantly, not every marriage should be saved. We both belong in the 2nd category.
BTW therapy helped me and my kids greatly. I still do tune ups visits because I like talking to someone who isn't judging me and is safe to talk too. I can't recommend a good therapist enough. And if you don't like your therapist, just find a new one.
Oh...and do something for yourself!! I went and bought a motorcycle and a new hand gun. 2 absolutely amazing things I love and can't picture myself never having again. 2 things I couldn't have with the ex.
One more thing..this past weekend...I played monopoly with 4 out of 5 kids with this absolutely joy of a woman I am seeing for 3 or 4 hours, cooked dinner together, and made brownies and cocoa for the kids, and than watched a scary movie. It was a fantastic Saturday night and one I would have never ever have had a year ago.
Go at your own pace, do things as you are ready. Post often, listen to the members here, because there is no substitute for experience, and know in your heart, you will get through this, and one day someone will come to this forum, and you'll be on the other end giving that advice and giving empathy to someone who really needs it.
There you have it, Steve ^^^. Joseph has given you the recipe, please take his advice.
Yep what changed for me is beginning the IC with a hardline Dr that called my BS and also the fact that she actually just started a new "job" 4 hours away in LA. Yeah, that job is under the table for shady people and she lowers herself and my family name into that cesspool for money. I even told her that getting involved with stuff like that is below her, she agreed but yet she went anyways knowing full well that I could take care of us easily. She said she wouldnt want me taking care of her finances because id be telling her what to do or asking too many questions about her life. That hit me as her saying "I want to do whatever the hell I want, hang around and shut up and deal with it" She is sick in the head to actually do something that puts herself at legal risk. And so far from her 5 and 7 year old kids. Once I saw how little respect she has for me it hurt, but she doesnt even respect herself or her duty as a mother anymore.
She asked me to watch the kids yesterday stay with them at her moms so she could go to her new job in LA. I was like well, sure (the kids can be a handful on the grandparents and I owe them for providing the kids a good place to live). Thats when she told me about this whole thing. I just couldnt really believe that all this really happened. Today from work I called her mom just to make sure the kids were behaving since WW is still gone and they were (for once haha) and her own mom told me to stop helping her, that she is using me. Her mom went off on her for going so far away to "work" I guess and of course WW texted and asked me if i talked to her mom about her "new job" but I did not. I knew better than that. I am finally feeling good and not scared about distancing myself from her. The only thing I worry about now is when the inevitable question comes .."why arent you coming over anymore, or why are you ignoring me" and im sure it will follow with something like "thats fine other people wont ignore me" or some crap like that as usual (its your fault and ill punish you for not doing as I want game). I am mentaly prep-ing for now. But I do not call or contact her in any way, she does 100% of it and its all business unless she asks me to come over and hang out which I will stop doing since she has 0% intrest in reconciling and wants to be free to sew her wild oats, not being a part of that, no thanks.
Oh and BTW my strategy I will use is to just tell her "I got things to do" or "I dont feel like it today" or "I cant today" and not elaborate on anything or especially not say "I cant because you did this and that and blah and blah" nope just gonna act like I am busy pretty much 24/7 from now on until she gets the hint im done with this crap.
How about a simple “no” ? You don’t owe her an explanation and there is no need for excuses .
You can see how your extremely unhealthy attachment to this extremely Unhealthy woman is detrimental to your kids, right? If you took all the emotional energy you put into that woman or saving the marriage and put that into yourself and your kids, then your kids will have have a fighting chance. If this keeps going on, this will be absolutely detrimental to your children
I take exceptional care of my kids. They are as minimally affected by this as I an allow with the mistakes Ive made handling it. But Of course there will be a lasting impact.
I take exceptional care of my kids. They are as minimally affected by this as I an allow with the mistakes Ive made handling it. But Of course there will be a lasting impact.
Why are they not staying with you? Your wife by your own admission is neglecting them, they are to much for your in-laws yet your wife still has them, or your in-laws are watching them even though neither can handle them or is 4 hours away? Money doesn't equal taking care of them just as FYI.
And if you really believe this has a minimal effect on your kids....that's just...sad. Look how it's affected you, and you are an adult and this isn't your mother basically abandoning you.
Oh, and you are allowed mistakes as husband, that's on you, but mistakes as a father...that only affects your kids. But you won't see it that way anyway.
I get my kids 3 days a week she gets them 4. up until a week ago they were staying with her and OM on her days now they are at in laws house (far far better for them). she is only supposed to be working her "new job" the days im off with the kids. Today was an exception since her mother is watching them since im working. But on my days with the kids Sat night- Tues Night I am with them at my place 24 hours.
Legally im good, the kids are taken care of, yes it will seriously effect the relationship they have with their mother and probably the way they see relationships in the future. I get that. But currently the 5 and 7 year old are happy as they could be given the situation. They are disappointed in their mother but I cant control her obviously. I take them to the park, i keep them in school do everything they need
What Im trying to do is get my balls back and let her go. Each day is getting easier with the way she acts. The hard part will be to resist the tug when she pulls my chain again next time, and im sure there will be a next time she wants "daddy" to do something for her while she is off galivanting. That is what im prepping for.
What she’s supposed to do and what she does are 2 different things. If she can not handle the kids, and if it’s too much for the in-laws can you two work something where you have them more often? I assume they are in some type of school correct? Can you get them when your W is working instead of allowing your in-laws who by your own admission are struggling?
What I think you’re having a hard time grasping is this isn’t just going to affect the relationship with the kids and their mother. It’s going to affect the relationship you have with your kids too. You need to be the anchor to their ship.
And it’s not as simple as “getting your balls back”. It’s as simple as realizing your worth and what you’re willing to accept in terms of how you are treated. It’s as simple as realizing your spouse is a lying manipulator that really doesn’t think anymore of you than she does the gum on her shoe.
Again stop focusing on her. Focus on you and the kids.
Steve, I highly recommend that document everything your W is doing and noting the date/time. If you end up getting divorced, women like your W can be vicious and go for the throat in court. Protect yourself and your kids.
Steve, I highly recommend that document everything your W is doing and noting the date/time. If you end up getting divorced, women like your W can be vicious and go for the throat in court. Protect yourself and your kids.
This is very important. Especially now since it sounds like your STBX's new job is a hooker or running drugs...
Steve, if you know your W’s job is illegal and you don’t report it, you will get your kids taken away from you too.
Watch yourself
Steve, I highly recommend that document everything your W is doing and noting the date/time. If you end up getting divorced, women like your W can be vicious and go for the throat in court. Protect yourself and your kids.
This was mentioned to you early on and I truly hope you have been doing it!!
Hey Steve, how are you making it?
His silence is concerning me.
There is a lot in this sitch that we are not being told.
Im doing okay, my next IC appt is feb 6th. Looking forward to that. Been eating again and taking an anti-depressant. Watching a lot of netflix, keeping the house upkept and so on.
Last time I talked to WW was a few days ago, she pretty much just said she needs some time to figure herself out and is not worried about getting a D (I validated and left it at that). The papers havent been sent off to the court yet. Her mom begged me not to go down there and push the issue. At this point I have become indiffernent. Im going to be okay if my WW doesnt get herself together, and I end up down the line with someone else. Thats okay I did my best.
I dont really speak to her much anymore, it felt weird the first couple days. I only contact her about the kids or if its absolutely necessary. She has called me a couple times and asked how I am and so on, I just say okay and get off the phone as fast as I can avoiding talking. She got the hint and pretty much doesnt string me along anymore. She is doing her and Im doing me. Thats about all thats going on right now. My finances are tight but in order. Im gonna try to take my kids up to see some snow this week. Other than that life is a bit lonely and sad at times but I am okay. At this point i am where I should have started when she left me. But better late than never /shrug
I was getting all worried about her new job prospects and everything else and then it occured to me it doesnt matter, im just working on what I can control and thats it.
Hi Steve,
Yep not going to take custody away from mom without me documenting months of neglect or abuse. But i will begin doing so.
she actually just started a new "job" 4 hours away in LA. Yeah, that job is under the table for shady people and she lowers herself and my family name into that cesspool for money.
You've mentioned your wife's involved in neglect or abuse, and she's working an illegal job. I'm confused--why does she have 4 days to your 3, and why aren't you working to revoke her custody? If these were exaggerations--e.g., you just don't like her parenting or her job--please clarify so we understand what's going on. The kids' safety trumps most else. These inconsistencies may be what Joe is noticing.
Last time I talked to WW was a few days ago, she pretty much just said she needs some time to figure herself
She has called me a couple times and asked how I am and so on, I just say okay
I see you're pulling back, but not ready to set and enforce firm boundaries.
At this point I have become indifferent.
I wonder what puzzle piece we're missing that makes you consider resuming after being cheated on seven times. I've read diligently, I don't understand, but I do wish you and yours well Steve_.
Im doing okay, my next IC appt is feb 6th. Looking forward to that. Been eating again and taking an anti-depressant. Watching a lot of netflix, keeping the house upkept and so on.
This is all healthy stuff that I applaud.
Hi Steve_,
Coming from experience...your boys are about the age my step-sons were when my H ended his first marriage. His XW is a narcissist and I’m here to tell you it does affect the kids. And your sitch is much worse than what my Hs sitch. Regardless, with a narcissist, the drama continues and never ends. Best advice I can provide is put the kids first and limit communication and direct exposure to your W. Your emotions and reactions are fuel to her. And she will use the kids as pawns. It’s very hard to prove these things in court, but if it gets nasty enough (post D) I’d consider a restraining order against her and force all communication to go through a “co-parenting portal” that has oversight or can be used in court. The only way to prevent drama is to block her access to you. As for the kids, if she remains a coparent, you will need to be aware she will use them to get to you. It’s only when they are older you can explain all the confusion they experienced when they were younger. Be your best self, keep mouth shut about her (at least until they mature enough to understand) and give them all the love and stability you can. Hang in there. I’m so sorry you are going through this.
The others are right. Unfortunately she really doesn’t care about you. It’s pretty obvious she only cares about herself. I actually feel that my H XW continued drama was one of the triggers for his MLC, and some major health issues for myself. Don’t just get out of her way, block her access to cause you and your kids more harm. Trust me. I wish my H had put more distance in place sooner and maybe my life wouldn’t be such a mess now.
Yep I get it finally 100%. Being nice, being a push over is stupid. It got me nowhere but pain. And she is still running away. Last night she told me “I want to get a new car” she can’t afford it. She is running herself out there. Brags about how many men want her. Told me to give her time. I finally grabbed my balls and said no. That’s BS. You can’t go play and then just run back to daddy when your done. I know what I want in my life. I realized my attachment comes a lot from the war. When I was younger I fought really hard to survive 3 years in Iraq and my buddies and I would talk about our lives if we ever made it. Mine was a pretty woman and family and a good job. I had all that and got comfortable and f’d it up here and there. But I was important to me because it was what kept me going, what made me want to live and made me have drive to get it when times were bad. I lost a lot of friends. And I realized I am so attached to my idea of family because I always wanted to make thier loss worth it. To do it right to never give up and take whatever comes at me. That and some self-esteem issues I shouldn’t have. I’ve looked inward a lot. After my w told me last night she wants to play the field and figure it out later. She said I’m attractive I’m a good man and she knows I love her and the kids but I’m boring. It just dawned on me. I’m allowing all this. I always have. That’s where I failed. I thought love would conquer all but no. Basic human respect is the building block of anything. Like sandi and others have said. I told her thanks for the heart to heart and it helped me really see something I needed to see. She went out with some dude hiking today. She called me twice I did not answer. I got my kids I got my job and I got my self respect. I’m tired of chasing her into my life I told her that. As for my kids I watch over them like a hawk. And yes I keep track of everything. I’m done I’m happy with being done. I’m not happy as in life is great right now, I’m happy I am done being a door mat to her BS. And that’s enough right now. I’m going absolutely NC, dark, whatever. I am done saving my marriage. It’s over I see that. She will thrown more games at me and I’ll just be a rock that don’t move. I’m sick of my feelings being toyed with. I deserve better. I’ll update in a week or so. But I have never just grabbed my balls and stuck to it. The time is now. Catch you all later.
Hi Steve,
I'm sorry this is all happening. But I'm very, very confused. I've been reading along this whole time and I have lost count of how many times you've said basically what you just said above-- she said X, now I totally get it, I'm done. i'm going NC. It feels a bit like Groundhog Day.
Can you share some actions you'll take this time (different from before) that will help you break this cycle? Maybe it is time for parenting app that you can communicate through if necessary and you can block her number? How are you going to protect your children?
Steve man, I hope you are really gonna stick to the mission bro. This is for your benefit and your kids benefit. You are going to be that kids rock in the future, like it or not. They are going to learn what being a strong man should look like from you.
Make the suffering you're going through now worth it in the future.
I'm rooting for you sir.
Yep I get it finally 100%. Being nice, being a push over is stupid. It got me nowhere but pain. And she is still running away. Last night she told me “I want to get a new car” she can’t afford it.
Not your concern.. Too many conversations going on with your WW to be healthy.. I suggest you stick to email communication only
She is running herself out there. Brags about how many men want her. Told me to give her time.
Not your concern - again
I finally grabbed my balls and said no. That’s BS.
not your concern - don't engage in the first place ! - Your have a bad habit of doing this - DRAMA !
And I realized I am so attached to my idea of family because I always wanted to make thier loss worth it. To do it right to never give up and take whatever comes at me.
Steve, most men are attached to the idea of a family - beautiful wife and children. Its nothing new - its been that way since mankind began - partners and having children. We are taught this from early child hood - films / parents / grandparents. Everywhere we look when growing up is "families" - I think its fair to say most people want a happy family life and to bring their children up in the best enviroment possible.
Unfortunetly, things are different from 30 years ago - attitudes have changed and divorces and single parent families have increased massively.
I would also say your family life was not a good enviroment - your wife is toxic !
After my w told me last night she wants to play the field and figure it out later. She said I’m attractive I’m a good man and she knows I love her and the kids but I’m boring.
More conversation !!! Really ?
It just dawned on me. I’m allowing all this. I always have. That’s where I failed. I thought love would conquer all but no. Basic human respect is the building block of anything. Like sandi and others have said. I told her thanks for the heart to heart and it helped me really see something I needed to see.
lots of words - too many words - Why oh Why are you having these heart to hearts ? You like torturing yourself !
I got my kids I got my job and I got my self respect.
Sorry Steve - You do not have any self respect. You have been posting here for 2 months.. You ignore most advice and you are still engaging in conversations or trying to justify your poor choices.
she is a manipulative serial cheater - That you would also take her back tomorrow if she came running..
Tell me Steve, how does that equate to self respect ?
I’m going absolutely NC, dark, whatever. I am done saving my marriage.
Well your recent update was the exact opposite ! - Lots of chat there. Lets see how you go on. Actions not words Steve. I hope you sort this out ! For your kids safe if anything.