Previous Thread:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2912125#Post2912125I reposting what I last wrote so its easier to find:
Soooooo.... its been a painful return to life as usual.
I got a very honest text from pilot.
Sure I formulated a response but I did not wan to "defend" or be "defensive" which is hard for me in a way. Sure I'd like to explain my side but when is that defending and and not explaining. I spent 2 sleepless days trying to figure out how to validate and NOT defend. I probably should have come here but frankly I was afraid of being blasted made to feel bad for wanting to follow up period.
I ended up probably sounding really lame with just validating all his points - BUT, I did not elaborate on my D or the statement that my husband footed my vacation. Uhhh... my vacation was funded by joint assests which I paid into. In division of assets my STBXH has to pay this off but he is then giving me this asset. He doesn't want it and really wants me to me using it. THAT is NOT my STBXH footing my vaca... WTH??? BUT, I said nothing.
IDK - should I have?
Its just I've gotten to the point where I've forgiven myself an in turn I've forgiven my STBXH. That's the ONLY way I could file for D and I just forked out another expensive retainer for an accountant for one of the assets which we neither of us know how to place a value.
In so doing this letting go I can look back and see the abuse I suffered from STBXH. The constant screaming in my face, being yanked out of bed, grabbed by the back of the neck, the threats of harm, being told to STFU for the last 5yrs, endless episodes of road rage, my son's forever on medication and my step daughter cuts herself. Yes, police were called to my home more than once.
I've let it go - I forgive it all.
STBXH texted yesterday stating he got a cancellation for a court date he didn't knew he had... I was like I'm not aware of any court date. It was supposed to just be filing the petition of dissolution so maybe it was an error. He confirmed he got the petition. Told him I just sent the check for the accountant that day - he stated ok. That my atty was not doing anything until we had that information. Went on to say that I would not be doing any sneaky court dates and planned to keep him in the loop with everything... he stated sounds good. He then went on to update on the dogs tail. that was probably a 10min discussion back and forth. Ultimately the tail needs to be removed... but we both hate giving up on it.
I'm going through with my D. I can let go of what happened in my M and not hate my STBXH. The texts yesterday did not bother me... I'm over it.
Being ISFT-T... I took on the blame for everything but I never made him choose to get into it on an interstate with heavy traffic with some other dude in a car. Going 80-90mph... sliding between cars when there was no true space... 80mph on the right shoulder of the interstate to pass illegally. This went on for an hour. I sat there in the passengers seat with tears running down my face knowing if I said anything it would escalate the situation.
IDK... maybe I should have come here for help with my reply... maybe if he knew what really happened in my M he would know when I filed... I was done.
Hey KitKat,
If you want our thoughts on the text and reply you'd need to post them, or something similar. If you spent two days, I'm sure it was a good expression of your feelings. Validating is about acknowledging his feelings--I wonder how many feelies pilot expressed that you got so many chances to validate? ((Hugs))
In so doing this letting go I can look back and see the abuse I suffered from STBXH. The constant screaming in my face, being yanked out of bed, grabbed by the back of the neck, the threats of harm, being told to STFU for the last 5yrs, endless episodes of road rage, my son's forever on medication and my step daughter cuts herself. Yes, police were called to my home more than once.
KK I am really sorry this happened to you. No one deserves this type of treatment.
I completely agree with LH ^^^.
That's abuse, and even more reason for you to invest in yourself with therapy.
Previous Thread:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2912125#Post2912125I reposting what I last wrote so its easier to find:
Soooooo.... its been a painful return to life as usual.
I got a very honest text from pilot.
Sure I formulated a response but I did not wan to "defend" or be "defensive" which is hard for me in a way. Sure I'd like to explain my side but when is that defending and and not explaining. I spent 2 sleepless days trying to figure out how to validate and NOT defend. I probably should have come here but frankly I was afraid of being blasted made to feel bad for wanting to follow up period.
I ended up probably sounding really lame with just validating all his points - BUT, I did not elaborate on my D or the statement that my husband footed my vacation. Uhhh... my vacation was funded by joint assests which I paid into. In division of assets my STBXH has to pay this off but he is then giving me this asset. He doesn't want it and really wants me to me using it. THAT is NOT my STBXH footing my vaca... WTH??? BUT, I said nothing.
IDK - should I have?
Its just I've gotten to the point where I've forgiven myself an in turn I've forgiven my STBXH. That's the ONLY way I could file for D and I just forked out another expensive retainer for an accountant for one of the assets which we neither of us know how to place a value.
In so doing this letting go I can look back and see the abuse I suffered from STBXH. The constant screaming in my face, being yanked out of bed, grabbed by the back of the neck, the threats of harm, being told to STFU for the last 5yrs, endless episodes of road rage, my son's forever on medication and my step daughter cuts herself. Yes, police were called to my home more than once.
I've let it go - I forgive it all.
STBXH texted yesterday stating he got a cancellation for a court date he didn't knew he had... I was like I'm not aware of any court date. It was supposed to just be filing the petition of dissolution so maybe it was an error. He confirmed he got the petition. Told him I just sent the check for the accountant that day - he stated ok. That my atty was not doing anything until we had that information. Went on to say that I would not be doing any sneaky court dates and planned to keep him in the loop with everything... he stated sounds good. He then went on to update on the dogs tail. that was probably a 10min discussion back and forth. Ultimately the tail needs to be removed... but we both hate giving up on it.
I'm going through with my D. I can let go of what happened in my M and not hate my STBXH. The texts yesterday did not bother me... I'm over it.
Being ISFT-T... I took on the blame for everything but I never made him choose to get into it on an interstate with heavy traffic with some other dude in a car. Going 80-90mph... sliding between cars when there was no true space... 80mph on the right shoulder of the interstate to pass illegally. This went on for an hour. I sat there in the passengers seat with tears running down my face knowing if I said anything it would escalate the situation.
IDK... maybe I should have come here for help with my reply... maybe if he knew what really happened in my M he would know when I filed... I was done.
First, I don't care that you responded to the pilot. You've gone your own way in starting to date before you have emotionally moved on from your H. And in fact I think this post is proof of that.
I find that after you've been here for 3 years, back for your current sitch for over a year, and that you are just now characterizing your R with your STBXH as "abusive" is troubling. If you had disclosed this right away the advice you would have received would have been VERY VERY different. But I believe that you withheld it because you didn't want the advice you would have got, and that would have been to get out and to never go back! For anyone physical abuse is and should be a dealbreaker.
KC, I have told you I have seen signs of you being avoidant of reality in the past. I told you you reminded me of some family members I have that were children of an alcoholic and abusive parent. That they avoid things in reality that they do not like, or that does not suit them at the moment. I believe this post displays those behaviors:
1st, you avoided coming to the board before responding to pilot because you didn't want to get "blasted or made to feel bad for wanting to follow up". The fact that you avoid coming here for advice because it might not agree with your predetermined decision is interesting. Like I said, I don't care one iota that you responded to the pilot. But I do find it interesting that hearing strangers on the internet disagree with your decision to do so would be being "blasted" in your mind. Or that it would make you feel bad. Wow.
2nd, you avoided telling us about the abuse in your MR, I presume, because of the advice you would have received. And since that didn't fit with what you wanted (and that was to stay with an abuser!) you would have felt blasted and made to feel bad for wanting to stay with the abuser. KC, you don't see an issue with that? Do you think that is healthy?
3rd, you finally come clean about the abuse from your STBXH only after putting the cart in front of the horse and falling for the pilot. This post shows me that you used the pilot to get over the abuser, then you sprung the fact that your STBXH was abusive to prove to him that you are really done......and to justify filing for D. The problem is no one is buying it. You filed for D so that you could tell the pilot you had and hopefully that would make him open up to the possibility of a serious R with you. See the point above about how avoiders avoid reality UNTIL it suits there purpose. I have seen that same behavior over and over again in said relatives.
KC, I hope you don't see this as a blasting. Or as making you feel bad. That is not what I am trying to do. I wouldn't take the time to write out a lengthy response to all this if I just wanted to hurt you. I could accomplish that with one or two lines! You seem like a very loving, caring person. But I feel that you need some serious therapy so that you can be the best you that you can be, and so that you can live the best life that you can live!
We are about the same age if I remember right. My sitch with my W started just over 3 years ago. 3 years ago I made the decision, despite being vehemently opposed to it, to start IC. You know what my only regret is? That I didn't do it 20 years earlier! My outlook on life, my happiness, the way I treat others and allow myself to be treated by others are all in such a much better place today than 3 years ago! And I wasted most of my adult life being the inferior version of me.....over 2 decades......that I can never ever get back.
Anyway, I really do think you are a wonderful person. I hate to see you struggle so much and ping-pong back and forth the way that you do. As others have told you, broken attracts broken. Until you get unbroken, well, you are doomed to repeat your past....over and over and over again.
I'll continue to pray for you KC!
being yanked out of bed, grabbed by the back of the neck, the threats of harm..
Hi KitCat,
Wow, I didn't realize your STBXH physically abused you. I'm so sorry to hear this.
ANd I agree the with others, no one deserves to be physically abused. My heart goes out to you as well.
Some days were absolutely amazing... a lot days actually. My STBXH doted on me. He would cook, clean and gave the most amazing pedicures and foot massages.
But, there was a dark side to be dealt with.... There was always an excuse... stress of his XW, the situation with his kids, his job, lack of sleep...
He could be angry and cruel. I've sat in many a restaurant silently with tears running down my face not saying a word due to the way he treated me... and 20min later I was just supposed to be over it and never bring it up again. (its clear why I don't talk much during a meal now???)
He would be angry and yelling and threatening to hurt me all while my son could hear him in another room. My son would call my mother... who would then call the police and come over to pick up my son.
Never an apology. Just things would get better for awhile.
The day he had both hands around my neck I just accepted it - didn't fight back. I blacked that day from my memory - it didn't happen.
My STBXH did start to get involved in a veterans retreat with bff and somehow he shared that even with the bff because he realizes he has a problem... when the bff came to talk to me about it I had no memory of the event. I couldn't figure out what he was talking about... that ended up being a whole other issue.
My family and a couple of friends know of SOME things. NO ONE KNOWS EVERYTHING.
I have forgiven myself for sweeping things under the rug.
Right after my STBXH moved out of the house last spring. I took down the curtains - I have NO bedroom curtains. I love the natural light but its because I'm no longer living in the dark.
I have forgiven my STBXH. It was the only way I could file for D.
STEVE 85 --- If I didn't say anything then it never happened. Does that make sense?
I couldn't admit it to myself. Let alone anyone else. Even those that saw - my mother. I still denied.
So yeah... this has been an undercurrent in my M for years... but I used to balance it against the things that were good.
I got a very honest text from pilot.
Sure I formulated a response but I did not wan to "defend" or be "defensive" which is hard for me in a way. Sure I'd like to explain my side but when is that defending and and not explaining. I spent 2 sleepless days trying to figure out how to validate and NOT defend. I probably should have come here but frankly I was afraid of being blasted made to feel bad for wanting to follow up period.
I ended up probably sounding really lame with just validating all his points - BUT, I did not elaborate on my D or the statement that my husband footed my vacation. Uhhh... my vacation was funded by joint assests which I paid into. In division of assets my STBXH has to pay this off but he is then giving me this asset. He doesn't want it and really wants me to me using it. THAT is NOT my STBXH footing my vaca... WTH??? BUT, I said nothing.
IDK - should I have?
It's really hard to interpret what you're talking about here, it sounds like this text from pilot had some accusations in it? But this is supposed to be a casual FWB relationship, so I don't know why you're laying awake at night trying to figure out how to respond to his accusations, whatever they were. Without knowing the details I'm just guessing, but it sounds to me like he's sort of doing the WAS thing and pushing you away and making excuses that he's doing it because of your actions. Like "how can we be serious when your ex is paying for your vacations" sort of thing. And if so, you don't need to listen, or validate, or explain or anything. You just need to cut him off. Because he's not asking for explanations, he's just telling you why he's done. Just like a WAS.
In so doing this letting go I can look back and see the abuse I suffered from STBXH. The constant screaming in my face, being yanked out of bed, grabbed by the back of the neck, the threats of harm, being told to STFU for the last 5yrs, endless episodes of road rage, my son's forever on medication and my step daughter cuts herself. Yes, police were called to my home more than once.
I've let it go - I forgive it all.
You forgave it? Or you swept it all under the rug and pretended it never happened and didn't exist? Because forgiveness absolutely does not mean letting him off the hook and it does not mean forgetting it happened.
I never made him choose to get into it on an interstate with heavy traffic with some other dude in a car. Going 80-90mph... sliding between cars when there was no true space... 80mph on the right shoulder of the interstate to pass illegally. This went on for an hour. I sat there in the passengers seat with tears running down my face knowing if I said anything it would escalate the situation.
This seems pretty common with victims of abuse. They take the abuse because they are afraid if they don't then it will escalate. It's also common for victims to blame themselves, do you? Because what you are describing above is full blown abuse, and no one "deserves" to be a victim of that. There is nothing you ever could have done to "explain" being treated that way, and if you think you did deserve it on any level then you're still a victim of his abuse.
Oh KC,
You are a kind, loving, valued human being. What your exH did was wrong. He could go to jail. JAIL. There is no amount of cooking or massages that makes up for physical or emotional abuse. That does not balance. You did not deserve that treatment and it is not okay.
I'm so glad you are away from him. I hope that by sharing the truth with us here and naming his actions as abusive and wrong helps continue to establish emotional distance and clarity for you.
I know people have said over and over you should seek out counseling and you've been opposed to that, but I want to add my voice to those to encourage you to find help. What you've been through is incredibly traumatic and a professional can really help you. Like others have noted, a lot of therapists are doing phone or Zoom calls if the in-person part is scary. You might consider a group therapy session where you aren't alone with someone. Does your place of employment offer an employee assistance program? Normally those provide for a few free sessions with a professional therapist, totally confidential.
It's really hard to interpret what you're talking about here, it sounds like this text from pilot had some accusations in it? But this is supposed to be a casual FWB relationship, so I don't know why you're laying awake at night trying to figure out how to respond to his accusations, whatever they were. Without knowing the details I'm just guessing, but it sounds to me like he's sort of doing the WAS thing and pushing you away and making excuses that he's doing it because of your actions. Like "how can we be serious when your ex is paying for your vacations" sort of thing. And if so, you don't need to listen, or validate, or explain or anything. You just need to cut him off. Because he's not asking for explanations, he's just telling you why he's done. Just like a WAS.
Yes... [facepalm]... a list of reasons why he is done.
Didn't need a response.
Didn't need validation.
Didn't need me stating my vaca was paid from joint assets... EXCEPT he wasn't done until he felt I was still accepting vacas from STBXH.... So should that be clarified??? UGH, sorry it just makes me angry... like HELLO, I'm not financially dependant on my STBXH
You forgave it? Or you swept it all under the rug and pretended it never happened and didn't exist? Because forgiveness absolutely does not mean letting him off the hook and it does not mean forgetting it happened.
I used to sweep it under the rug.
I have forgiven.
I'm over it. I want to move on.
I'm not letting him off the hook but I'm not hiding this part of my narrative any longer. Moving on is living my best life and treating him better than he treated me.
This seems pretty common with victims of abuse. They take the abuse because they are afraid if they don't then it will escalate. It's also common for victims to blame themselves, do you? Because what you are describing above is full blown abuse, and no one "deserves" to be a victim of that. There is nothing you ever could have done to "explain" being treated that way, and if you think you did deserve it on any level then you're still a victim of his abuse.
This was NOT the first episode of road rage. I used to ask him to stop. Begged him to stop. Yelled at him to stop and all it did was ramp him up and then retaliate to me and not just the other jerk on the road. Then he's screaming at me and telling me to STFU. He did these episodes with the kids in the car too....
Kitty, big hugs to you, I am sorry you had someone treat you this way, it is awful.
You are so well liked on this forum, so please, please, please get the help that has been suggested to you. We all want to see you in a happy and healthy relationship in the future, but you need to be unbroken.
STEVE 85 --- If I didn't say anything then it never happened. Does that make sense?
I couldn't admit it to myself. Let alone anyone else. Even those that saw - my mother. I still denied.
So yeah... this has been an undercurrent in my M for years... but I used to balance it against the things that were good.
Avoiding it and denying it doesn't make it go away. You owe it to yourself, everyone else in your life, and all the people that will be in your life in the future to take care of this the right way. IC. I believe it more than ever that you are suffering from PTSD.
KC, you're a good, successful, and educated person. You deserve the best life that you can give yourself!
Avoiding it and denying it doesn't make it go away. You owe it to yourself, everyone else in your life, and all the people that will be in your life in the future to take care of this the right way. IC. I believe it more than ever that you are suffering from PTSD.
KC, you're a good, successful, and educated person. You deserve the best life that you can give yourself!
Its a different ballgame Steve... Its not denying or avoiding. Its like I never gave it a voice because I didn't want it to exist. Not because I was avoiding it because I did not want people to know and judge me and my situation. And, how do I correlate the good parts of my STBXH with the bad parts. HE HAS A LOT OF GOOD PARTS. Its like not being able to wrap your head around it.
I finally confessed yesterday to my male bff that it occurred. He doesn't know the details but I do know that he went through something similar with his wife. She had trouble with alcohol and was very abusive to my friend and their child. They separated a couple of times. They were going through D but still talking to each other. My bff just wanted her to get help. She committed suicide during the D process.
I'll be talking with my bff later this weekend. Because like me he there were a LOT of good parts. Neither of us believe our spouses are bad people...
they just have bad coping mechanisms. I believe that.
I'm still nauseous and light headed discussing this. It seems surreal - like it was a dream or a movie.
KC, I am sorry that you went through all of that. My XH was an abusive alcoholic (which is why I left, eventually). I felt the same way for a long time after I left - like it was a dream or movie. It creates such dissonance when someone you love and you know isn't ALL bad is doing really awful stuff to people they love. A really good book that goes into this is Codependency No More - it's useful whether the behaviors are related to alcohol or not. It is possible to let yourself love the person and condemn their behaviors, and choose to not put up with them. When I shifted my thoughts to "what is it about me that is making him do this" to "what is it about me choosing to remain in this relationship" and realizing I didn't want to, that gave me the courage to leave. The abusive behaviors weren't about ME - they never really are. I agree that they stem from people having bad coping mechanisms - but that isn't anyone's problem to fix but theirs.
Its a different ballgame Steve... Its not denying or avoiding. Its like I never gave it a voice because I didn't want it to exist. Not because I was avoiding it because I did not want people to know and judge me and my situation. And, how do I correlate the good parts of my STBXH with the bad parts. HE HAS A LOT OF GOOD PARTS. Its like not being able to wrap your head around it.
Not giving a voice to something because you don't want it to exist = denying. Denial has different root causes. It's easier to not deal with it - since you already had to live through it once. That's a coping mechanism.
I understand why you didn't want to divulge that, even though I do agree with others that it would have altered a lot of the advice you were given. Ultimately, it's your choice. Hugs to you.
Re: the pilot - did he just text you all of that out of the blue after he hadn't been?
SAM-CAL - thanks for the understanding and lack of judgement.
My life is whirlwind of a hot mess. What pilot wrote to me - I wanted to come from a place of compassion and empathy which I did at first???... then it was a complete downward mess of defending myself AND COMPLETELY oversharing.
Re: the pilot --- since he had not texted I did send this.
ME:I like how you brought out the fun in me. I've never shown up at anyone's house like that ever!!! Or certainly sending out those pics... I'd like to count on your discretion not to share.
I appreciated your patience with my quietness - I can be pretty shy and reserved at first. I'm ISFJ-T.
But, we are both adults and saying something would have been better than just ghosting.
I know you are dealing with a senior fella at home and I hope he is comfortable and doing well.
PILOT: Well thats the first you ever acknowledged my situation at home.
Not ghosting. Tired of wasting my efforts. You are a married woman. Inspite of what papers you have. Your husband footed your vacation. Among other ongoing interactions. I've been through a divorce. You weren't going through one.
I was tired of lack of communication and no conversation over a meal.
Then no acknowledgement of my burdens between work and home. Thise dogs are my kids and are my passion. We have had an incredible journey together.
Considering your vocation, your lack of empathy or discussion was disappointing to say the least.
I have several other challenges with parents amd work but you had no idea or interest in bringing those out.
Sorry but time is a valuable commodity and it has been. It very short supply. Especially this time if the year.
I don't know or care what those labels are . I see actions or lack there of.
That sort of surprised me because I frequently started our text conversations asking about his older dog. When he texted me at the end of a long day of flight I always validated that his schedule seems exhausting. Now the week I was out of town I did not ask as much about his dog and I probably should have when we were texting Christmas Day and that he had gotten home the night before asked about how his dogs were/parents were. He just always seemed to be distant and cold BUT I get it... text messages are hard to read as you miss nearly 90%of communication - tone and body language.
I have NEVER in my life ever been told I lack empathy. But also given my profession empathy can be a drained commodity - I had multiple end of life consults. One particular bad one was because the patient was his own worst enemy - he kept eating things he shouldn't. The last surgery was particlarly bad and I had to resect 18" of bowel and I told them due to scar tissue from 2 prior surgeries I'd have to send to a boarded surgeon the next time... well the next time came and owners had to make a hard decision of putting a dog down which was young and otherwise healthy but how many times do you do surgery? They kept him locked up nearly all the time because he could not be trusted to eat things. THAT ONE WAS HARD. I can't discuss this with the pilot because its too close to home - he doesn't want to hear it. I get it. But, don't tell me I don't have empathy. Sometimes we just have to cut it off for our own mental health... my profession is among the top with suicide rates.
I simply responded with "I hear you".
And, then I took 24hr to really thing about what he wrote.... I wish I could say I left it there but I did not. I spilled my guts...
And, lets just add more crazy to the list.
I'm at work on Saturday and my STBXH calls my office. I told him I would call him after work - it was about the puppy's tail.
So I've been fielding texts off and on since beginning Oct for this tail. He's been managing the best he from what I text him. When I called him after work he really needed me to look at the tail. We discussed options and ended up agreeing to meet him back at the clinic in 2hr.
I packed up some odds and ends that I had still come across at the house that were his - leather coats, miscellaneous other items.
There was PLENTY of time to talk as I had to sedate the dog... and when done had to wake the dog up. Talked mostly about the kids. He realized I know that SS21 is in some serious trouble but I was able to confirm that he knew this too. I asked if he what it exactly it was - he confirmed he did not. I said all I know is that it happened during deployment and that I let him know I was here for him if he ever wanted to talk. SS21 is dealing with a lot of shame right now and doesn't really want to come home. He is looking at a less than honorable discharge from what I gather and will be discharged. STBXH talked about having him live with him once he comes home and getting him into truck driving here.
I asked about the Alaska vaca which turned out to be canceled. Now he's going to Kona - scuba diving, living/working on a dude ranch, etc. I told him the dude ranch sounds like a blast.
He started showing me pictures of the first knife he is making in his forge - its a hunting knife for his son. It looks really amazing for his first one.
For the first time in a long time he actually asked about me - how was my friend B? Do you still do your women's group thing. That was interesting...
He suddenly said "I have no social life".... wait what??? I was like that's why you moved to X town - to have a social life. You had no social connections here. He was like "I don't like the bar scene". I was like well you moved there to be closer to friends/work people. He stated that he hasn't seen R and L in the last month as they had COVID. HMMMM.. is the grass looking a little less green???
I walked STBXH through every thing he needs to do to keep up with this issue. Got him meds... extra bandage material. Puppy is finally awake --- and YES, I'm all like "how's my big sexy baby feeling???" LOL to the dog. We walk outside and I start collecting his stuff from my vehicle and he's like "wow, I thought I had just misplaced that stuff... and I was looking for that other day". He is still yammering as we load up his truck with the stuff and puppy.
AND... I went for it... "who are going to Kona with?" He immediately said "just me"... oh really? He starts yammering on and asking how much we spent when we went as a family of 5? Told him to make sure he gets a picture of himself on a dude ranch and he goes on about how he doesn't have internet at the house and I reminded him he has a cell phone and data. He tells he no longer games at all - doesn't even open up his gaming laptop. I told him good for him.
I walked away from his truck 3 times... He kept popping back out and saying something or asking something so I'd turn around. At one point he jumped out of his truck and stated he was thinking about island hopping to Oahu for a Dole Whip. I must have given him one amazing smile because we both talked about trying to make them at home and they are not even close to the same. At that I turned around again and told him to let me know if he needed anything... I looked freaking amazing!!! My ass looked great in those jeans and boots!!!
I knew deep down he was lying to me. I know he is not going to Kona alone. I told my friend this and she got online and confirmed he is going with OW. I don't know why he continues to lie? But, I just don't care anymore. I've got no reason to call him out on it... its not worth my energy.
This interaction is what I want left in my memory.
Not all the other garbage stuff with that pain.
He is a good person with bad coping skills... END OF STORY.
I think physically abusing a woman is more then bad coping skills but maybe that’s just me.
Hey Kit,
Just a quick question. So many people have pointed you towards IC but you simply don’t acknowledge it or dance around it. I know you had a poor experience in the past but I know there are really good therapists out there that could really help you you grow.
My question is, are you ever going to consider IC or are we wasting our time trying to encourage you to go?
Good people don’t physically abuse their wives. I’m sorry, but it’s the truth.
I’m sorry you endured this and I’m sorry you still want a man back who physically abused you, scared you, scared your kid, etc.
I think physically abusing a woman is more then bad coping skills but maybe that’s just me.
Its not that I disagree with you.
I've done a lot of work to clean up my side of the street... most times I just withdrew and isolated... but there were times I screamed back and would not back down out of frustration. I have to live with those actions too.
Its just for me to move forward I want to push those things off in a closet. I'd rather have peaceful interactions and that to be my memory moving forward than carrying all that pain.
Hey Kit,
Just a quick question. So many people have pointed you towards IC but you simply don’t acknowledge it or dance around it. I know you had a poor experience in the past but I know there are really good therapists out there that could really help you you grow.
My question is, are you ever going to consider IC or are we wasting our time trying to encourage you to go?
It not that I'm NOT considering it. I've been looking at logistics... frankly I'm emotionally drained and exhausted and facing the fact that overall I'm not wanting to be that vulnerable at this moment.
Good people don’t physically abuse their wives. I’m sorry, but it’s the truth.
I’m sorry you endured this and I’m sorry you still want a man back who physically abused you, scared you, scared your kid, etc.
He just showed me he is still a liar.
But, he also just showed me he is trying to make amends... though small baby steps. He told me he actually invited his first XW and his daughter to Thanksgiving. Mostly because he is trying to build a bridge back to his daughter BUT that was a HUGE step for him to invite his XW (there is a very long history there...)
So no. Not working to get my STBXH back. Just working through a way forward where we can all come out this with the fewest scars possible.
To be honest.... I'd give anything for a do over with the pilot.
I'm just looking for friendly terms with my STBXH moving forward and not having the negotiations of the D become as nasty as our M had been.
My son moves back to college next week. Maybe than I can just focus on getting my house in order both figuratively and metaphorically.
I’m sure when you get your house in order, work through your $hit and date with pure intentions you’ll eventually meet someone special.
KC,
I’m so sorry you went through that. That’s terrible and no one deserves to be physically, emotionally or mentally abused.
I hope this is the true beginning of your awaking. When you are abused like that you start to believe you are worthless and deserve it. When you start the process of realizing you didn’t, and don’t it can be scary. Scary to start believe you’re worth more. So it can take baby steps, and progress what’s important. Not at anyone’s pace but your own. But let me say, you are worth more, you deserve more and confidence in that acknowledge is very attractive. Just be careful because it’s attractive to all types including those who want to take confidence away.
I know you state you miss the pilot, but what attracted him to you, was your availability to sex and keeping it a friends with benefits situation. I hope going through that situation helped you realize that maybe you just aren’t the type capable of having that relationship. You want more and fall easily. Or maybe you just want to fill the hole in your heart with a quick fix. I doubt you’ll honestly know anytime soon. You need more personal healing.
Just be honest with yourself and whomever comes next. Knowing what you need, and not settling for less will lead you to happiness.
Unfortunately there is absolutely no easy way out.
Hang in there. You have a whole lot of people rooting for you.
Yes... [facepalm]... a list of reasons why he is done.
Didn't need a response.
Didn't need validation.
Didn't need me stating my vaca was paid from joint assets... EXCEPT he wasn't done until he felt I was still accepting vacas from STBXH.... So should that be clarified???
I wouldn't clarify anything else with him, I don't really think that's an issue for him, he's just making it an issue because he's looking for reasons to exit stage left and blame you for it. Even if you could give him a very reasonable explanation, he's not going to listen. Or he'll find some other reason. It really seems like he just wants out at this point. Don't forget your DB'ing, the best thing to do right now is pull back and give him time and space.
This was NOT the first episode of road rage. I used to ask him to stop. Begged him to stop. Yelled at him to stop and all it did was ramp him up and then retaliate to me and not just the other jerk on the road. Then he's screaming at me and telling me to STFU. He did these episodes with the kids in the car too....
Wow that had to be incredibly frightening for you and especially the kids. Someone who puts loved ones in harm's way like that has some very serious anger management issues. I'm sorry you went through that!
That sort of surprised me because I frequently started our text conversations asking about his older dog. When he texted me at the end of a long day of flight I always validated that his schedule seems exhausting.
He's engaging in rewriting of history. His behavior is classis WAS stuff. Maybe you're too close to the situation to see it for what it is, but he's a walkaway. It happens, it's not always someone you're married to. It can be someone you've only dated briefly. Same walkaway pattern though. And you're making the same LBS mistakes of trying to pursue him, reason with him, explain to him, help him see things are not what he thinks they are. It doesn't work. All you can do is give him time and space. Maybe he'll reconsider later if you do. And maybe not. But the bottom line is the best thing for YOU right now is to leave him be.
And, then I took 24hr to really thing about what he wrote.... I wish I could say I left it there but I did not. I spilled my guts...
And I'm sure it got you nowhere, right? Time and space!
And I'm sure it got you nowhere, right? Time and space!
Yup... NO WHERE....
I see your analogy of WAS. Time and space may work with relationships but we weren't even there yet. We were only dating.
In my head I wanted to send a text letting him know that he was doing all the right things with his dog with the older health issues, truly all the right things. That he had a good relationship with his vet who had history and testing results that I didn't have. I didn't feel it was my place to interfere with that or add more.
^^^IDK... maybe he wasn't looking for that but more of me just telling him he was doing a good job??? That's what clients want to hear in my office. Sure they are looking for advice but they really just want to be told or recognized for what they are doing correctly. "you handled that well", "you were right to be concerned about that", etc. Did I just miss the mark when I was not "in office mode"? But, seriously, he was doing all the right things its just a frustrating condition that will not get better. He thought I did not care? He thought I was not interested?
I will never know. And, I cannot send him anything... so why does everything I see... I go I'd love to send that too him.
Anyway I needed the reminder.
Time and space worked for my STBXH. Despite the he still lies to me (most likely because he does not want to hurt me) we seem to get along well. I even sent him a text by mistake and there was joking back and forth over it. We seemed to have both benefited from exiting the toxic situation.
I don't feel that anyone sees this guy contacting me ever again.
I'm kind of scratching my head a bit, Kit.
You came here to save your marriage, one year timeline, it was all your fault etc....
Now you are pining over a FWB that you slept with a few times and no longer care about your H.
What are you hoping to get out of this website and the advice being offered?
TBH KK,
I'm wondering a lot about what you post. This post is going to come across as very harsh, but i think you need serious help !
In 12 months you have not mentioned any of the abuse your ex husband put you through. Now suddenly, you have painted a very negative picture of him.
The whole ex story reminds me of a couple i knew from school. They got married, had children, he ended it due to her instability - For 12 months she tried to get him back, until he filed - Suddenly she is telling people he was abusive. He was devestated, that she would say such a thing....
I am friends with both of them on FB, and she frequently posts memos about surviving abuse and how she has become stronger...
I have known her for 25 years, and it was obvisous she was a Narcasist years ago - even more so with the rubbish she posts on social media.
I'll be honest - when i read your post a few days ago, the first person i thought of was her.
Then there is the pilot sitch - this isnt normal.
You jumped from wanting EX back to dating / pilot in a matter of posts.
You really need to look into Cluster B discorders. NPD and BPD are very similar. Unfortunetly, people with cluster NPD / BPD rarely admit it or want help.
The fact that your consistenly never ackowledge you need IC speaks for itself...
KK, this post isnt meant to be harsh - i just hope it makes you reflect.. Some of the stuff you write / actions are not healthy..
Best of luck
I'm kind of scratching my head a bit, Kit.
You came here to save your marriage, one year timeline, it was all your fault etc....
Now you are pining over a FWB that you slept with a few times and no longer care about your H.
What are you hoping to get out of this website and the advice being offered?
IDK...
Yup... wanted to save my M and told myself I'd give it a year, but I gave up. I completely and totally gave up. It was a lot of work. It was a lot of a pain. It was a lot of NO movement towards me. NONE. Not to mention I'm dealing with some real emotional drama that happened during our M. Icing on the cake is even seeing him this weekend and helping out with the puppy... he still chose to lie to me. What's to want back?
Ultimately when I took my ring off 10/4... I think deep down I knew I was throwing in the towel.
Stepping into the dating world was iffy at best and I made the justification to just get out and see and make connections... get out be active... interact...
I played it off as FWB but it was never designed to be that way... I was dating... and I kept dating this guy because I did like him. I was trying to protect my feelings so I was dishonest here. I really did like him. I thought he liked me. He learned I was only separated on the first date... clearly, he feels I'm not getting D because I've chosen to stuff down my feelings and get through this without anger (I'm on another support group). I'm not looking to create drama or to cement reasons why we are getting divorced but rather come from a place where STBXH can be like - wow, she really has class.
So STBXH will bring the dog to me... I will pet sit for him... I will occassionally have lunch with my MIL and I will be involved with my stepkids in whatever capacity they are comfortable with... THEREFORE, pilot assumed I'm not getting D... because he's been through D and I'm not going through D.
Frankly my dad has been through 3 D's... In my family you are still family. I was home alone when I went into labor with my S19 and I had to call my dad's second XW for a ride to the hospital. I still see and talk to her and she brings her pets to my office. She is the mother of my half brothers. As for my dad's 3rd XW - we (STBXH, me and our kids) still spent Christmas Eve with her and her kids every year after my dad left her. When we would have family Christmas with my dad's family (my dad was in FL) my mother, her husband and I would bring my dad's 3rdXW to our family Christmas... THIS is how we roll in my family.
This is the dynamic I was raised in and the dynamic I want going forward with my STBXH. I am NOT carrying the trauma that he did to me going forward. I accepted. I put it to bed. I will not go back to that.
TBH KK,
I'm wondering a lot about what you post. This post is going to come across as very harsh, but i think you need serious help !
In 12 months you have not mentioned any of the abuse your ex husband put you through. Now suddenly, you have painted a very negative picture of him.
The whole ex story reminds me of a couple i knew from school. They got married, had children, he ended it due to her instability - For 12 months she tried to get him back, until he filed - Suddenly she is telling people he was abusive. He was devestated, that she would say such a thing....
I am friends with both of them on FB, and she frequently posts memos about surviving abuse and how she has become stronger...
I have known her for 25 years, and it was obvisous she was a Narcasist years ago - even more so with the rubbish she posts on social media.
I'll be honest - when i read your post a few days ago, the first person i thought of was her.
Then there is the pilot sitch - this isnt normal.
You jumped from wanting EX back to dating / pilot in a matter of posts.
You really need to look into Cluster B discorders. NPD and BPD are very similar. Unfortunetly, people with cluster NPD / BPD rarely admit it or want help.
The fact that your consistenly never ackowledge you need IC speaks for itself...
KK, this post isnt meant to be harsh - i just hope it makes you reflect.. Some of the stuff you write / actions are not healthy..
Best of luck
I get it. I'm willing to admit and look into BPD.
As for the abuse... I struggled with all the "good" things with these "bad" things... like things could be so "good".
Its documented. My son sees a psychologist and psychiatrist. My son had to listen to him screaming at me and how he was going to hurt me... he called my mother who came with the police. I've had to dial 911 when he was throwing a plate of food and then kicked out the tail light of my vehicle because I did not want to go go-karting... the police arrived that night but he had taken off in a car prior to them getting there. Crazy part??? He came home and we all went go-karting. My kid was so traumatized and so anxious he punched me in the arm so hard I fell to the ground. YUP - I realized I just raised 2 boys to behave this same way. My step son had a similar incident a month later with breaking windows and brawling with his father.
NO one outside my son and my STBXH knows how hard my kid hit me. I couldn't move my left arm for a week.
This is one of MANY episodes. You can pull up police logs to residences... they exist.
My STBXH threw a trash can so hard in the house when SS21 would not do what he was told he put a hole in the wall.
I can keep listing them but I do NOT want to live there anymore.
No I will not claim "victim". I stayed and choose to look past and move on each and every time. But, I will not let anyone treat me that way again.
And, why did it take so long to ever mention any of this??? SHAME. FEAR.
If I tell you then it really happened. If only 3 people know... it didn't happen.
Judge me if you want. I'm no longer hiding behind SHAME.
KK, I want to jump in and defend you after reading along for quite a while. And encourage you to think about some stuff.
I am no expert, but I think suggesting that you have a personality disorder is disingenuous at best with some dangerous undertones of victim-blaming and misogyny. You are clearly struggling despite your brave statements about GAL, moving on, and not being a victim. Dear KK, you can own your victimhood without being victimised. I think your hard work has less to do with owning your part and more to do with acceptance.
Honestly, I think it's quite clear you are suffering from something like C-PTSD after internalising years of abuse from several males figures in your life. Your ex, your son... Your father? You're middle aged, right? I wouldn't be surprised to hear that you'd been exposed to some terrible attitudes of male entitlement, exploitation, or abandonment (which were common but NOT normal) in your youth. This is where you need to focus your attention in counselling.
Here's some healing advice if you want it. Allow your anger to surface. Own your victimhood and direct your anger at your abusers. Use that anger to TRULY power yourself into a brand new life. You've been self-medicating the pain by seeking validation from unavailable men. You are a survivor for sure. You are also a victim of abuse. You did nothing to deserve it and you will continue hurting yourself if you internalise this belief.
I think it's absolutely detrimental to your well-being to continue allowing your STBXH access to your friendship. This man has done nothing to deserve your consideration or your attention. Your acceptance of his abuse excuses his disgusting behaviour. Make no mistake, in the absence of any consequences for his behaviour, his sense of entitlement will continue to grow. Your acceptance enables him to go on and hurt other people, including your kids.
Look, maybe I'm just angry today after waking up to yet another news story about male sexual depravity from women who were afraid to speak up because he is white, wealthy, famous and attractive. I'm sick of it and I don't want to hear about it anymore. Toxic masculinity is a cancer. I don't want women to believe they can love a man enough to make him change. It's not that he doesn't see, it's that he disagrees. He DOES, because he CAN.
Stop enabling it, stop allowing it, live your own life and be FREE.
I feel for you, Kit. I really do.
I think you are a good person and deserve happiness. I just wish you would get onboard with IC because I think once you process your hurt, you will make some lucky guy very happy, and vice versa!
I know you don’t want to be vulnerable and rehash things with IC, but if you can just dig deep and take that courageous step, I truly think you will experience that freedom you deserve. And ironically, once you deal with your stuff and heal, you will find yourself attracting good men into your life.
Rooting for you!
I second that Thornton. When I was 8 or 9, my Stepmum told my siblings and I that we were no longer welcome in her house (we went every second weekend), whilst my Dad just sat there in silence. I thought I was fine and that this hadn't affected my life in any significant way. It wasn't until BD that I realised how sensitive I was to rejection from anyway and dealt with it in IC, that I realised how much I need/needed to free myself from this event.
After the first session dealing with it, I sobbed uncontrollably for a good 15-20 minutes, like something was being let out of my body.
Here's some healing advice if you want it. Allow your anger to surface. Own your victimhood and direct your anger at your abusers. Use that anger to TRULY power yourself into a brand new life. You've been self-medicating the pain by seeking validation from unavailable men. You are a survivor for sure. You are also a victim of abuse. You did nothing to deserve it and you will continue hurting yourself if you internalise this belief.
But that's just it. I don't want to be angry. If I'm going through with this D I filed it has to be from a place of peace. I'm not forgiving him to let him off the hook. I made equally poor choices to stay. I have to own that.
Within the first year of our M I told him he needed to go to Dr and get on something. He needed something to help with the stress he was under even if it was for the short term. He was so angry all the time but it was never directed at me or the kids then. He complied and was put on Prozac. Life was amazing.... life was good... everyone was happy. But, he often forgot to take it. And, I agreed it made him very flat... he went to feeling nothing so he stopped taking it. I tried to discuss trying something else but he became convinced it was poison and I was using it for mind control.
I remember being at the psychologist with SS19 back then and just telling her I was trying to get STBXH back on medication but he was truly fighting it. Clearly without meds life was starting to go downhill.
He never went back on medication. A few years ago I tried again... I know that he wanted to quit smoking so I even suggested chantix because its really anti-depressant as well. He took it for awhile but it caused horrible nightmares and caused bed wetting of all things.
I'm sure he is working through is own issues with his behavior. He tells me he completely quit gaming which never bothered me. He played games of strategy... quietly. He did not play any shoot em up fast paced things were you are yelling and cussing. But, if he feels that was an unhealthy outlet -- good for him for letting it go. He's trying to return to a simple life. He goes camping. He doesn't have internet or tv at his house. He hunts or grows his own food as much he can.
He's not a bad man - he has exceptionally poor coping mechanisms. The day he put me in a choke hold scared the crap out of him. I know because he confessed to his bff and there was talk of him having PTSD. I do think he has been getting some support/therapy...
I get that I probably need some type of therapy. But, I don't want to sit and cry on someones couch reliving something that should not be controlling my future.
AND HOW DOES PILOT figure into all of this ----- because I was at his house and got freaking triggered. He was cussing and swearing loudly -- Not at me. About an issue... and I literally almost left without saying a word to him. I tried to remain calm and asked what I could do to help and I left him to take care of what he needed to address but I stood outside nearly naked trying to breathe. Trying to pretend that my fight or flight had not been triggered. Obviously I got sh*t to deal with.
But that's just it. I don't want to be angry. If I'm going through with this D I filed it has to be from a place of peace. I'm not forgiving him to let him off the hook. I made equally poor choices to stay. I have to own that.
Forgiveness and anger aren't mutually exclusive - you can forgive someone and still have anger. Anger doesn't have to be some outburst at someone. It's OK to be angry. Also, you can be at peace with the resolution of something, and still be mad about how it came about.
He's not a bad man - he has exceptionally poor coping mechanisms. The day he put me in a choke hold scared the crap out of him. I know because he confessed to his bff and there was talk of him having PTSD. I do think he has been getting some support/therapy...
Maybe, but this isn't your issue or problem any more - how HE is dealing with his own feelings. Also, it didn't scare him enough to go back to being medicated.
I get that I probably need some type of therapy. But, I don't want to sit and cry on someones couch reliving something that should not be controlling my future.
It HAS been controlling your future, as seen with the pilot. Sometimes the only way out is through.
Sitting around continuing to analyze him and his behaviors isn't going to change what happened. It comes off a lot of mental gymnastics here for you to be at peace. It can be really frustrating when someone won't take the steps to heal e.g. your XH and prozac and..... you not going to IC
. His problems aren't yours to solve, but yours are. Pretending things are ok or they didn't happen =/= solving.
He did not play any shoot em up fast paced things were you are yelling and cussing.
lol. I feel I must stand up for shoot-em up, fast paced things! Can't say I've heard anyone yelling and cussing. Mostly congratulating each other on a good play or laughing at a bad play. My kids have played everything from Minecraft (online lego-building) to Valorant (shoot-shoot-shoot) with me.
AND HOW DOES PILOT figure into all of this ----- because I was at his house and got freaking triggered. He was cussing and swearing loudly
Ooh.. I was afraid of that, KitCat. Is that two angry men in a row you were attracted to? IC can help. Your "RED FLAG" alarm bells SHOULD go off if a potential partner can't handle their anger.
I get that I probably need some type of therapy. But, I don't want to sit and cry on someones couch reliving something that should not be controlling my future.
I'm sure you know this, but that's only one type of therapy. Behavioral therapists, for example, don't care why you started smoking--they just focus on getting you to quit the maladaptive behavior.
KC, it takes on average seven attempts to leave an abuser because they control and manipulate their victims to stay under their thumb. Please don't blame yourself for staying.
You have a lifetime of protective coping strategies to deprogram that you're probably not even aware of. Do these sound familiar?
- Rationalisation
- Keeping the peace
- Blaming yourself
- Seeking alternative means of getting needs met
- Denial
- Distraction
Men like your STBXH rarely work on their issues because they don't believe they have a problem. Entitlement, remember?
YOU are a good person with bad coping skills. Your STBXH is just a garden variety abuser. The poor diddums felt scared when he choked you? No, choking is what happens when food gets stuck in your throat. The correct term is 'strangulation'. Your STBXH strangled you. And HE is the one who felt scared? When HE tried to take your life?
A US study found that up to three-quarters of women in domestic violence shelters reported non-fatal strangulation from their previous partner. It’s a gendered crime – most victims are women and most perpetrators are men. Other US studies show that in close to 50 per cent of deaths involving intimate partner violence, women had experienced non-fatal strangulation at least once before they were killed. Similarly, in Australia, domestic violence death reviews have often identified that the homicide was preceded by an incident of non-fatal strangulation. As American strangulation educator Gael Strack says, “strangulation is the last warning shot”.
You are lucky to have escaped with your life. I hope you realise what an incredible stroke of luck it was that STBXH left.
I understand your reluctance to tap into your anger. It's incredibly hard to admit you are a victim. Forgive yourself first and foremost. Your anger should be short-lived and give you purpose - to free yourself from your current circumstances. Prolonged, unreleased anger turns to poison inside you. Bitter, bitter poison. If you believe in psychosomatic illness, it could erupt in the form of cancer or chronic pain. You need to be angry, and you need to release it.
I see your analogy of WAS. Time and space may work with relationships but we weren't even there yet. We were only dating.
The distance/pursuit dynamic is where the idea of giving time and space comes from, and that dynamic is in strong effect during dating. In fact it's an even stronger dynamic during dating than it is in a WAS situation, because the laws of attraction are still in place whereas in a WAS sitch, the WAS had no attraction to the LBS. The more you pursue pilot or anyone else you date, the less attractive they find you. You were no challenge to pilot, you readily jumped into bed with him and even showed up half naked at his doorstep. You blew up his phone (at least it sounds like you did), poured your heart out to him, were way too available to him. You were doing all the pursuing, and now he is doing all the distancing. And you've been making the classic mistake of pursuing even MORE when he distances, which just drives him farther away. I've been in a relationship like that before and will tell you that from my point of view, all that pursuit towards me looked very clingy and desperate. It really turned me off, and it sounds like that's how pilot feels too.
In my head I wanted to send a text letting him know that he was doing all the right things with his dog with the older health issues, truly all the right things. That he had a good relationship with his vet who had history and testing results that I didn't have. I didn't feel it was my place to interfere with that or add more.
I doubt he cares about that at all, he probably just wants out.
^^^IDK... maybe he wasn't looking for that but more of me just telling him he was doing a good job??? That's what clients want to hear in my office. Sure they are looking for advice but they really just want to be told or recognized for what they are doing correctly. "you handled that well", "you were right to be concerned about that", etc. Did I just miss the mark when I was not "in office mode"? But, seriously, he was doing all the right things its just a frustrating condition that will not get better. He thought I did not care? He thought I was not interested?
You've gone from hyper-analyzing everything H said to doing it to pilot! Try to put your brain into neutral. It didn't work out, just accept it and move on. Take a break from men for a while and gather your thoughts.
I see your analogy of WAS. Time and space may work with relationships but we weren't even there yet. We were only dating.
The distance/pursuit dynamic is where the idea of giving time and space comes from, and that dynamic is in strong effect during dating. In fact it's an even stronger dynamic during dating than it is in a WAS situation, because the laws of attraction are still in place whereas in a WAS sitch, the WAS had no attraction to the LBS. The more you pursue pilot or anyone else you date, the less attractive they find you. You were no challenge to pilot, you readily jumped into bed with him and even showed up half naked at his doorstep. You blew up his phone (at least it sounds like you did), poured your heart out to him, were way too available to him. You were doing all the pursuing, and now he is doing all the distancing. And you've been making the classic mistake of pursuing even MORE when he distances, which just drives him farther away. I've been in a relationship like that before and will tell you that from my point of view, all that pursuit towards me looked very clingy and desperate. It really turned me off, and it sounds like that's how pilot feels too.
I never texted like 10times a day... everyday. I texted once every couple of days at the end for about a 10 days period.
Is it possible to turn it around?
Is it possible to wait 2-3 wks and offer to take him out to dinner as I "owe him some conversation over a meal"? Looking back at texts from early dating he hated how quiet I was and felt I hide behind the term introvert... obviously it just takes more time for my wall to come down... the sad part is I was like 98% there... UGH... if he could have just been a little more patient with me.
You've gone from hyper-analyzing everything H said to doing it to pilot! Try to put your brain into neutral. It didn't work out, just accept it and move on. Take a break from men for a while and gather your thoughts.
[quote=AnotherStander][quote=KitCat]I see your analogy of WAS. Time and space may work with
I never texted like 10times a day... everyday. I texted once every couple of days at the end for about a 10 days period.
Is it possible to turn it around?
Is it possible to wait 2-3 wks and offer to take him out to dinner as I "owe him some conversation over a meal"? Looking back at texts from early dating he hated how quiet I was and felt I hide behind the term introvert... obviously it just takes more time for my wall to come down... the sad part is I was like 98% there... UGH... if he could have just been a little more patient with me.
You need to read LH's signature quote. And live it.
Just in case you don't remember it:
“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.”- Will Smith
KK, back away from the pilot . It’s over. It barely even started. His is a great time to just let things lie and backaway. He isn’t interested not because you were too quite. He can sense that your personal life is in turmoil and there and there clearly a lot that isn’t resolved. And that doesn’t work for him. And it shouldn’t honestly work for him.
Lots more to say, debating whether or not I should . But please, just leave the pilot alone . Learn to move to on
I was at his house and got freaking triggered. He was cussing and swearing loudly -- Not at me. About an issue... and I literally almost left without saying a word to him. I tried to remain calm and asked what I could do to help and I left him to take care of what he needed to address but I stood outside nearly naked trying to breathe. Trying to pretend that my fight or flight had not been triggered. Obviously I got sh*t to deal with.
Is it possible to turn it around? Is it possible to wait 2-3 wks and offer to take him out to dinner as I "owe him some conversation over a meal"?
KitCat, re-read your text about Pilot yelling and cursing only a few dates in--sounds like anger issues. That's not normal. I suspect most people here have yelled expletives at some point, but it's highly unlikely if you stopped by our house on a random night you'd encounter that, especially if you only visited a few times.
Survivors of abusive relationships have an unfortunate tendency to recreate those situations. That's often due to not getting therapy, and a subconscious desire to prove we've grown and can handle them, but true growth is to avoid such situations. I suspect you will downplay his negatives to us, so just consider this yourself. If this is a pattern for you, you may not be able to stop on your own, but at least start noticing it.
Ok, putting the pilot aside.
You have raised your son. Sons look to their mothers on how they should treat a woman. They see you treated with respect, they will learn to treat their lady with respect. They see you have no tolerance for disrespect? They know not to treat their woman with disrespect. He watches you chase after a man who abuses you, he’s going to think it’s ok to abuse a woman.
He was in therapy for the things he witnessed ? What do you think it would say to him if you were friends with him. Or took him back if he wanted to reconcile? Think about that long and hard .
I personally think if there is anything in this world that can stop us from tolerating and running back to what repeatedly hurts us, it’s our kids. I know you felt you needed to sweep under the rig for yourself. But look at it from your sons point of view . For that reason alone , it something you should walk away from and never look back on. I don’t care how many nice dinners he cooked for you or the shoulders he rubbed. What he did was not acceptable . I hope one day you see how him walking out probably saved your life
I am coming to terms that my STBXH was a sh$try person... it's not that I didn't know it's that there were/are some amazing things about him. For every crap storm event there were 10 events that were stellar.
It was easy to see the stress he was under... the long hours.. the drama with his XW and her manipulation of the kids. So you look past the short fuse and the displays of anger that we all experience... and slowly over time continues to evolve.
He was an A Hole to my kid. My kid was in therapy because he just wanted to be liked by his stepdad. Why was my STBXH as arse to my kid? Because he wanted my kid to chose living with his dad so I would know th pain of losing my kid... because his kids were being with held from him. Yup... what a winner...
***Irony*** the last 3yr my STBXH had developed a stronger connection to my son. They chatted about all kinds of stuff. They were sharing a car so they communicated about that. I got on my kid about not doing something in regards to the puppy one night when I was exhausted... and my STBXH went in to S19 room to make sure he was ok and that I was overwhelmed with puppy. I was blown away by the relationship they finally had.
Which was then soured when STBXH left and never followed through with him about Graduation or taking him out to dinner. S19 acts tough but it hurt. He does not want me back with STBXH.
I just want to move forward... I have not slept in 3 days now. This is a lot to openly.admit.
I’m sorry, kk but from what you describe he was and is a sick sick man. I can’t seem to find any excuses for what he did to your son and you. I’m sorry, but communicating about cars and checking in on him once is is not grounds for a good relationship. Why does this man get so many outs and so many excuses and a crumb like “he checked on my son once when I got on him” make him a good person. It was most likely a gaslighting tactic towards you, actually. No long hours of work, no stress from his first marriage, in which he probably physically abused her too. There is absolutely nothing that excuses this behavior and I can’t imagine any “stellar” events cancelling any of this out and making this monster desirable in any way.
I’m sorry you haven’t been sleeping. You are in desperate need of therapy for this. Anyone would be. You continue to make excuses and put this abuser who was also mean to your son on a pedestal when he does something that isn’t cruel. I sincerely hope you get the help you need to get deal with this and change the dynamics in your life towards healthier ones .
He was an A Hole to my kid. My kid was in therapy because he just wanted to be liked by his stepdad. Why was my STBXH as arse to my kid? Because he wanted my kid to chose living with his dad so I would know th pain of losing my kid... because his kids were being with held from him. Yup... what a winner...
If this is true it is very sad. Your son has been through a lot living in this toxic situation.
For your son' sake I hope Mr. Briside is right and now that you have exhausted all options of trying to get your STBXH you are now going with the smear campaign.
Is it possible to turn it around?
Is it possible to wait 2-3 wks and offer to take him out to dinner as I "owe him some conversation over a meal"?
I know you really struggle with dropping the rope, but this would be a good time to practice. Just accept that it's over, that he's not interested (I'm not sure he ever was beyond having a booty call) and that you need to move on. I would not contact him at all, not now, not 2-3 weeks from now. Believe me he is not checking his phone 10 times a day to see if you messaged him.
Looking back at texts from early dating he hated how quiet I was and felt I hide behind the term introvert... obviously it just takes more time for my wall to come down... the sad part is I was like 98% there... UGH... if he could have just been a little more patient with me.
Don't be ashamed of who you are, and don't change yourself to conform to some image of what someone else things you should be. If you are quiet at dinner, so what? If you don't open up and share your deepest, darkest secrets right away, so what? You do you, and if a guy can't accept you for who you are then you do not want or need him in your life. My girlfriend is like you, it's difficult for her to open up. So I've learned to ask a lot of questions and be very patient. If a person really cares about you then that's the least they can do.
This is just not something I do with personal relationships... its me across the board.
I'm not sure that's such a healthy thing though! I would rather my dogs' vet be getting a good nights' sleep than laying awake tossing and turning at 2am because of some ailment one of them might have, in fact that might give me anxiety because if my vet is up half the night then it must be something serious! Likewise I don't want to think my girlfriend is laying awake at night contemplating our relationship, that would be a lot of pressure if I knew she was doing that. You know?
He was an A Hole to my kid. My kid was in therapy because he just wanted to be liked by his stepdad. Why was my STBXH as arse to my kid? Because he wanted my kid to chose living with his dad so I would know th pain of losing my kid... because his kids were being with held from him. Yup... what a winner...
If this is true it is very sad. Your son has been through a lot living in this toxic situation.
For your son' sake I hope Mr. Briside is right and now that you have exhausted all options of trying to get your STBXH you are now going with the smear campaign.
I just want to move forward in peace. I'm not looking for any smear campaign.
I accept what happened. All I can do is clean up my side of the street and move forward. It has been a heavy toll - this balancing act over the last decade. Seriously though I saw HUGE improvements in the last 3yr between my STBXH and my son... laughing, joking, I no longer had to be a go-between peace maker... it was like FINALLY...
Craziness aside my STBXH has been trying to manage a tail injury with the puppy since beginning Oct. He texted frantic today as the bleeding is so bad and could not get it to stop. I'm meeting him in 30min to hospitalize dog and remove his tail tomorrow. Its strictly business only but my heart is breaking for my puppy.
I just want peace and I hope our D negotiations can be handled in the same format as the puppy... and we can all put this behind us.
Is it possible to turn it around?
Is it possible to wait 2-3 wks and offer to take him out to dinner as I "owe him some conversation over a meal"?
I know you really struggle with dropping the rope, but this would be a good time to practice. Just accept that it's over, that he's not interested (I'm not sure he ever was beyond having a booty call) and that you need to move on. I would not contact him at all, not now, not 2-3 weeks from now. Believe me he is not checking his phone 10 times a day to see if you messaged him.
Looking back at texts from early dating he hated how quiet I was and felt I hide behind the term introvert... obviously it just takes more time for my wall to come down... the sad part is I was like 98% there... UGH... if he could have just been a little more patient with me.
Don't be ashamed of who you are, and don't change yourself to conform to some image of what someone else things you should be. If you are quiet at dinner, so what? If you don't open up and share your deepest, darkest secrets right away, so what? You do you, and if a guy can't accept you for who you are then you do not want or need him in your life. My girlfriend is like you, it's difficult for her to open up. So I've learned to ask a lot of questions and be very patient. If a person really cares about you then that's the least they can do.
This is just not something I do with personal relationships... its me across the board.
I'm not sure that's such a healthy thing though! I would rather my dogs' vet be getting a good nights' sleep than laying awake tossing and turning at 2am because of some ailment one of them might have, in fact that might give me anxiety because if my vet is up half the night then it must be something serious! Likewise I don't want to think my girlfriend is laying awake at night contemplating our relationship, that would be a lot of pressure if I knew she was doing that. You know?
I get it - he's a jerk.
Its just that I'm NOT usually THAT quiet... AND I was really warming up to him... Looking back I don't think this was just a booty call thing... I think I totally mis-judged that.
I get it - its too late. Can't go back and change the beginning but was hopeful I could change the ending. But, you are right. He is not interested in wasting any more time.
Looking back I don't think this was just a booty call thing... I think I totally mis-judged that.
This is typical KC changing reality to what she wants it to be. It was completely a boot-call thing. That was even how you advertised it! I'd have to go back to one of your previous threads but you were clear that you were just interested in unattached sex. That is what you got. I assume the pilot is a commercial pilot. My understanding is that they like to have booty calls setup around the country. So you were likely not the only booty call.
I believe he was also a cop and a FBI agent lol.
I get it - its too late. Can't go back and change the beginning but was hopeful I could change the ending. But, you are right. He is not interested in wasting any more time.
You still seem to take less issue with your ex-husband's abuse and pilot's anger issues than we do, and to be strongly opposed to therapy. Given your co-dependence, I worry in terms of future relationships. It's easy to feel like what we're used to is the norm, even if many are telling you such is not the norm or acceptable. I'm glad you're being more open--it's sometimes challenging to know what's going on as you re-write things. We earnestly want you to get to a better place, even if the journey must be your own.
Another quote that made me think of you:
“Love is freedom, allowing and acceptance. When you love others in a way that maintains their freedom to choose you or someone else, this gives you peace of mind that you were chosen over all other potential suitors. It’s the mindset of being their best option but creating the conditions that if their effort and interest is not mutual, you will find someone better. You deserve someone who loves, values, celebrates and cherishes you the way you are without having to change or bend yourself into a pretzel to please them. It’s the ultimate take it or leave it kind of non-attached attitude that helps to ensure you only date people who are really into you.”
I get it.... I'm only now speaking of years of abuse by my H because I was in denial. Even when my mom witnessed things I still glossed over and made excuses for him.
I'm just done.
I accept what happened. I accept that I made choices too.
The best thing for me to move forward is to give it a voice and put it to rest. I won't live there anymore. I have forgiven myself and my STBXH.
I had an amazing day though weird.... so weird. STBXH called in a panic puppy chewed off end of tail and bleeding profusely. It's my day off and I told him I'm leaving town at 2pm. If he gets to clinic before I leave I will see him or if its later I will instructions for staff.
I love this dog... my whole office loves this dog... told STBXH the decision was his bit it was time to lose the tail. As said as it is it will make everyone's life better including the puppy. While I'm checking in the dog my phone is ringing and I ignore. STBXH says your phone is ringing so i go to pull it out of my pocket to silence it and it's his mother... LOL.
So i answer because I'm meeting her for lunch in less than 2hr... she keeps talking. STBXH is trying to figure out what's going on by my end of convo and I finally mouth the word "you know your mother". Turns out after 2month of trying by everyone my SD19 is coming to lunch and I need to pick her up... woo hoo!!!!
I get back to hospitalize puppy... get on pain meds and schedule surgery tomorrow and let him know I may keep thru weekend to ensure he is recovering well. I turn to leave and send him on his way when he gets my attention and says if I see SD19 could I get a picture if she allows.... I can hear sadness in his voice as he has been trying to fix things with her. I said I would and left the room.
Now S19 is super stoked... they were so close!!! Lunch was awesome!!!!! I was in heaven watching those 2 together again. We then left for college.... and then STBXH was texting up a storm. Said he couldn't sleep as he missed his buddy. Went on to ask how lunch was... I just said AWESOME and that was it. Then he was asking about the insurance company and if I had my own acct. I reminded him he had separated our accts last spring.
I won't hate him. Not worth my energy. But, I will never tolerate his vitriol again. I will not participate in any fence mending between him and the kids... I used to... but its his burden and shame now. Not mine.
As for pilot... it is what it is... I was mistaken in that whole thing. If it was just FWB he would not have given 1 crap about how I was quiet or didn't care to get him to open up or understand his work personal like balance issues. He would not care that I was a married woman. I can't go back and start that over.
I was triggered by his behavior because I had not dealt and some can argue still haven't dealt with the trauma of my M. Many people who have been impacted by suicide first hand can't watch a movie where that's in there... they are triggered... that's what I liken it to. Had I known him better, had better trust, it been a lot longer after I dealt with my M I may not have been triggered at all... I was still too raw. I wasn't even in the same room with him when it happened.
Regardless... its done... my M and this crap situation with the pilot.
KK,
So I still don’t think you understand what FWBs actually means so let’s just leave at that. You are not a FWB kind of girl.
When you date there will be people that like you and people that don’t. If you can’t understand and handle that you probably shouldn’t be dating.
KK,
Several people told you dating was a bad idea. Especially, as only posts before you were still hung up on your husband.
You brushed it off as a bit of fun / letting your hair down and harmless..
Dating is not harmless when you have attachment issues. Look at the outcome of what was just a few dates with a guy.. You can't get over it and its actually set you back.
Wolfman is a great example of why not to date broken.
You followed in his footsteps - different outcome, but same principle.. It wasnt a positive or happy ending.
Please speak to a specialist. A lot of people here are posting the same thing day in day out, but until you make the steps needed, you will go full circle continually.
KK,
So I still don’t think you understand what FWBs actually means so let’s just leave at that. You are not a FWB kind of girl.
When you date there will be people that like you and people that don’t. If you can’t understand and handle that you probably shouldn’t be dating.
I'm not... NEVER have been.
I was trying to be "cool" in this new dating world that seems to have changed a lot since I was last in it--- Tinder did NOT exist last time I was in the dating pool. While I was NOT looking to get attached but rather date a LOT, I got attached.
I had multiple first dates, a couple of second dates... while I enjoyed the dates and getting to know the person it didn't bother me it didn't go further. One guy and I hit it off so well that he was asking for a second date before the first one wrapped up. I was totally open to it but I was leaving town in 2 days. There was light contact and he initiated texts but it just didn't go to asking for a second date. So I just let him off the hook by saying I was looking forward to meeting up again but we've seemed to lost momentum and I wished him well. Turned out he reconnected with someone from high school. I totally wished him the best and meant it.
So don't think that pilot is the first one to reject me or that I can't handle being rejected... I just was WAY more emotionally invested that I planned on being.
I see the point of not dating.
I've got multiple men all asking me out and for second and third dates. Frankly, I'm exhausted.
KK,
Several people told you dating was a bad idea. Especially, as only posts before you were still hung up on your husband.
You brushed it off as a bit of fun / letting your hair down and harmless..
Dating is not harmless when you have attachment issues. Look at the outcome of what was just a few dates with a guy.. You can't get over it and its actually set you back.
Wolfman is a great example of why not to date broken.
You followed in his footsteps - different outcome, but same principle.. It wasnt a positive or happy ending.
Please speak to a specialist. A lot of people here are posting the same thing day in day out, but until you make the steps needed, you will go full circle continually.
I'm working on it. I'm going to lose my health insurance with D so I've got to make that a priority and look into options and when I can be covered with new insurance.
I'm just as likely to get my heart broke 2yr after D or 2yr after therapy. Life does not have guarantees.
I haven't slept much this week so I know I'm not making good choices.
I came home last night to notice of court date in early March. I'm not even sure why we need a court date? STBXH does not have atty and my atty said nothing about needing to schedule a court date. I called STBXH last night when he was at work and told him about the court date (he stated he got notice too). I was said I'm being honest in that I don't know what its about. Told him I would check in with atty and let him know. We both agreed we don't want the court date. If we can get through this without creating more hate or bitterness it would be a win.
I was trying to be "cool" in this new dating world that seems to have changed a lot since I was last in it--- Tinder did NOT exist last time I was in the dating pool. While I was NOT looking to get attached but rather date a LOT, I got attached.
You have to try not to be attached yo a specific outcome early on. Also, definitely do not go bunny boiler on them when they back away. You have to take the attitude that it is their loss.
I had multiple first dates, a couple of second dates... while I enjoyed the dates and getting to know the person it didn't bother me it go further.
This is exactly how dating should be for you right now.
One guy and I hit it off so well that he was asking for a second date before the first one wrapped up. I was totally open to it but I was leaving town in 2 days. There was light contact and he initiated texts but it just didn't go to asking for a second date. So I just let him off the hook by saying I was looking forward to meeting up again but we've seemed to lost momentum and I wished him well. Turned out he reconnected with someone from high school. I totally wished him the best and meant it.
This is what is known as the slow fade. You handled it well though.
So don't think that pilot is the first one to reject me or that I can't handle being rejected... I just was WAY more emotionally invested that I planned on being.
This is the broken part of you.
I've got multiple men all asking me out and for second and third dates. Frankly, I'm exhausted.
Somebody is feeling pretty good about themselves today.
KK,
Several people told you dating was a bad idea. Especially, as only posts before you were still hung up on your husband.
You brushed it off as a bit of fun / letting your hair down and harmless..
Dating is not harmless when you have attachment issues. Look at the outcome of what was just a few dates with a guy.. You can't get over it and its actually set you back.
Wolfman is a great example of why not to date broken.
You followed in his footsteps - different outcome, but same principle.. It wasnt a positive or happy ending.
Please speak to a specialist. A lot of people here are posting the same thing day in day out, but until you make the steps needed, you will go full circle continually.
I'm working on it. I'm going to lose my health insurance with D so I've got to make that a priority and look into options and when I can be covered with new insurance.
I'm just as likely to get my heart broke 2yr after D or 2yr after therapy. Life does not have guarantees.
I haven't slept much this week so I know I'm not making good choices.
I came home last night to notice of court date in early March. I'm not even sure why we need a court date? STBXH does not have atty and my atty said nothing about needing to schedule a court date. I called STBXH last night when he was at work and told him about the court date (he stated he got notice too). I was said I'm being honest in that I don't know what its about. Told him I would check in with atty and let him know. We both agreed we don't want the court date. If we can get through this without creating more hate or bitterness it would be a win.
Court dates in uncontested divorces are completely normal, and are simply a formality. My understanding from friends and family that have been through it is that it is simply a matter of the judge asking both sides if they are in agreement with the written agreement. If both say yes (or one party doesn't show up) then there is nothing left to do, the written agreement becomes the official agreement of record, and that will be the final court appearance.
One word of caution, I think you've said you still have a couple of joint credit cards/accounts, and that is how you knew when he went with OW to a few places. Is that still the case? Because I've known people that have been D'd and agreed to split the debt, 50/50. But when the other S defaults, the bank comes after the first S for the whole amount, and no amount of telling the bank about the divorce decree mattered. So make sure you are protected.
Court dates in uncontested divorces are completely normal, and are simply a formality. My understanding from friends and family that have been through it is that it is simply a matter of the judge asking both sides if they are in agreement with the written agreement. If both say yes (or one party doesn't show up) then there is nothing left to do, the written agreement becomes the official agreement of record, and that will be the final court appearance.
One word of caution, I think you've said you still have a couple of joint credit cards/accounts, and that is how you knew when he went with OW to a few places. Is that still the case? Because I've known people that have been D'd and agreed to split the debt, 50/50. But when the other S defaults, the bank comes after the first S for the whole amount, and no amount of telling the bank about the divorce decree mattered. So make sure you are protected.
That's just it... we have no agreement at this time. We have negotiated NOTHING.
I just filed a formal petition of dissolution and hired an accountant to do a valuation on an asset for numbers. Once we have that its just plug and play and I've provided my atty with a detailed list of EVERYTHING as well as what we have already agreed to.
And yes, we no longer have joint cc. However one of his cc's is linked to my email address??? I have no idea how that happened. I'm certain I'm no longer an authorized used on the card but will pull a credit report this week to see if that's the case and then maybe I can contact cc directly without going through STBXH.
The nexflix account is with his email address/name but paid for out of my acct... I use it all the time so trying to figure out how to change user names without having to delete acct.
Outside of that there is just the cell phone bill which I can log onto and pay my portion - because our account is SOOOO old we are grandfathered in at significantly lower rates with over the top service. If they segregate me out to my own plan its a super duper rate hike.
That is our only connection at this time. Additionally STBXH will have to be one to release the phones - I cannot call do to so as I have tried once before.
So today is the day I'm going to fall apart... like ALL in fall apart.
I did it to myself.
I was doing so great... then Wednesday was such a high... that I crashed on Thursday???
Reminding myself to breathe.
Hey KitKat,
One foot in front of the other (For us technical types, schedule some of the many things you're juggling into your digital calendar, with gaps in-between for breaks, and realize you can only do so much in one day!) We all have these days! I'm starting mine with exercise to de-stress. Hope yours get a bit calmer.
KC, you might ask your L what the purpose of the court date is. Sounds like it's not the final hearing, or that you don't think so anyway. The way it happened for XW and me was we came to an agreement, it was filed with the court, a date was set, we both appeared, the judge asked us if we were both in agreement with the terms and wanted the D, we said yes and he granted it. Afterwards there was some paperwork filing to be done. XW's lawyer was there and was very helpful in navigating where to go, where to wait, where to file, who to talk to, etc. My L was not present because we had already hammered out the agreement and signed it.
Hey KC,
Just wanted to check up on you..see how you are? It's been almost a week since you posted. How are you doing? Are you ok? Your last post would indicate maybe something not so good happened. Let us know how you are if you can!
Hope all is well.
Nothing major going on here... just a lot of dumb moves on my part.
The court date is just to update the judge on our progress. I do not have to be there as my atty will take care of. STBXH doesn't have to be there... but I let him know everything I know and let him make the decision for himself on whether he wants to be there - he's got all the info. I was blunt and said I was not going to be there and he was free to make whatever decision he wanted and I dropped the discussion.
I can't even remember where I left off? My H called me over a week ago in a panic that puppy was bleeding EVERYWHERE. Pup got off his e-collar and chewed the bandage so badly that he chewed off the end of his tail.
So I met him at my office on my day off to take the puppy to set up for surgery the next day. While my H was there his mother called me on the phone. I was actually meeting her for lunch in a couple of hours with S19 on way to take S19 back to college. Turns out last minute my SD19 would be joining us and I needed to pick her up. I had not seen her in over a year.
H was trying to figure out the convo by just listening to me talking... but I did let him know I would be seeing his D19 in a couple of hours. I took the puppy in and set him up overnight. Told H I would keep him posted about progress with surgery and such. H was sad and asked if I saw D19 and she allowed could I take a picture for him. She refuses to have anything to do with him. I said sure and turned and walked away to take care of puppy.
Had an amazing lunch with MIL, SD19 and S19. S19 had missed her so very much. They were so close for years and seeing them back it was like "wonder twins" again. MIL was great.
So left lunch and STBXH is texting up a storm - how he misses puppy, can't sleep, asking me about if I still have X insurance (I reminded him he split up the insurance accts last spring so WHT?), then asked how lunch was... I just texted back "lunch was amazing" and did not say another word.
True to myself I sent pics of puppy during all stages of the tail amputation surgery.
I kept puppy 2 days because he needed more care than STXH could provide working 12's. I told him as such that puppy needed more care... was he living alone? He insists he was living alone but could come home on his shifts or have a friend stop by as needed for him. I of course told him I did not believe him... and I called BS on his solo trip to Kono (which he continued to tell stories that he is going alone - whatever, I know different but calling you a liar doesn't change anything for me so letting it go...)
He came to get puppy on Saturday and he took me to lunch first. It was weird because he did not bring up anything about the D. He continued a story to try to convince me he is going to Kona solo... just ignored. We talked about the kids mostly... SS21 has some legal issues and we are both concerned. Lunch was pleasant - like two old friends.
I'm coming to grips with there were two sides to my STBXH. My mom will sit and tell you all the great things they appreciated that STBXH did for them but then will talk about how he did not treat me well and they could always see that. My STBXH would go out and chop wood, haul things, mow the farm property when my mother's husband was post surgery and could not. I'm trying to reconcile the person who could do some amazing things with the man who was angry, cruel and abusive... I also see a man who is trying to make amends for things (not with me... I'm not a priority to him, but with his kids.)
Since the puppy has gone home he has spent a couple of days randomly texting me for a couple of hours... its hard not getting sucked into those conversations because they always start about the puppy and progress to other non-important things.
It stupidly joined match.com... AND, out of hundreds of profiles on match who's do you think popped up first??? Yup... pilots... UGH. I panicked having just joined a few minutes earlier and in trying to get rid of his profile I inadvertently liked his profile... YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.... and there is NO WAY to unlike. Of all the rotten luck. So, yeah... I'm certain he feels I'm stalking him.... GOOD GRAVY WTH.
No contact with pilot. NC for 8 days now....
I spend last Wednesday doing shopping to update the guest bathroom and my bathroom... just to change the space and keep myself busy. Shopped at my favorite hole in the wall bath store and bought lots of pampering items.
I'm dating... I know against medical advice here....
I've got 4 dates lined up next week.
One guy from last week sent some big long text about how I'm soooo out of his league but then sent me amazing flowers anyway???
Soooo nothing much has changed. I'm still a trainwreck but I'm out living my life and trying to come to terms with how things are these days.
I stupidly joined match.com...
I'm dating... I know against medical advice here....
I've got 4 dates lined up next week.
I'm still a trainwreck but I'm out living my life and trying to come to terms with how things are these days.
And sadly, THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is very commonly what is found online dating (OLD). This is more often than not the norm - people who have no business dating, are not at all ready to date, and sometimes by their own admission, are a train wreck. I’ve said it before here, buyer beware, this is often what you will find OLD - the land of misfit toys. Sign me up for some of that... NOT.
Kit cat, I’d offer suggestions and some advice but clearly you’re just going to continue to do what you want regardless of the advice you receive or the detriment to yourself. So I can only wish you the best. For everyone else, the next time you’re about to get OLD remember all of the stories you’ve read here. Of course if you just want to hook up once or twice, it may all work out for you. Or you might be one of the 10% who actually find a LTR as they do happen as someone does win the lottery or raffle or football pool. The rest of us just fund it.
I stupidly joined match.com...
I'm dating... I know against medical advice here....
I've got 4 dates lined up next week.
I'm still a trainwreck but I'm out living my life and trying to come to terms with how things are these days.
And sadly, THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is very commonly what is found online dating (OLD). This is more often than not the norm - people who have no business dating, are not at all ready to date, and sometimes by their own admission, are a train wreck. I’ve said it before here, buyer beware, this is often what you will find OLD - the land of misfit toys. Sign me up for some of that... NOT.
Kit cat, I’d offer suggestions and some advice but clearly you’re just going to continue to do what you want regardless of the advice you receive or the detriment to yourself. So I can only wish you the best. For everyone else, the next time you’re about to get OLD remember all of the stories you’ve read here. Of course if you just want to hook up once or twice, it may all work out for you. Or you might be one of the 10% who actually find a LTR as they do happen as someone does win the lottery or raffle or football pool. The rest of us just fund it.
But I will own my crap that I need to work on --- and I am getting there.
I refuse to hide from my past.
I love every part of me... I love the part that stays late, comes in on my day off, gets up at 1am to look after my patients, I love that I'm creative and self sufficient, I love that I will drop everything for a true friend and vice versa, I love my quirky hobbies, I love how I'm always thinking about doing things for others, I love that I can accept my broken parts with the parts that are still exploring and finding meaning in this world. I love being up before the sun and walking through the woods alone in the dark to find that first ray of light as I hit the water's edge... I love how I refuse to the cover the windows so I can lay in bed and see the full moon reflecting from the blanket of snow.
I may be down... but I was never out....
As a woman who has done her work, it’s true a train wreck and would make a healthy partner, I speak from DOn’s side too. And it is unfortunately for us who have done our work, aren’t self
Admitted train wrecks who encounter these people in OLD. I am ready for a healthy relationship and the make version of you is what I unknowingly end up with sometimes and quite honestly it stinks .
KK you have a complete cognitive dissonance. You’ll admit you are a train wreck, have issues, but do nothing to help
Yourself. You think just because you admit it, you are doing something about it. Then you talk about how much you love yourself, yet you treat yourself pretty poorly.
I do know my words fall on deaf ears. You’ll continue to date to self soothe and ignore your problems. You’ll recognize you are not in a healthy place, yet do nothing about it . You’ll continue to “accidentally” send texts, or like someone or send a bill showing where you are going or whatever these “accidental” cries for attention are.
I hope one day you decide to actually do something healthy about what has happened and where you are going on life
As a woman who has done her work, it’s true a train wreck and would make a healthy partner, I speak from DOn’s side too. And it is unfortunately for us who have done our work, aren’t self
Admitted train wrecks who encounter these people in OLD. I am ready for a healthy relationship and the make version of you is what I unknowingly end up with sometimes and quite honestly it stinks .
KK you have a complete cognitive dissonance. You’ll admit you are a train wreck, have issues, but do nothing to help
Yourself. You think just because you admit it, you are doing something about it. Then you talk about how much you love yourself, yet you treat yourself pretty poorly.
I do know my words fall on deaf ears. You’ll continue to date to self soothe and ignore your problems. You’ll recognize you are not in a healthy place, yet do nothing about it . You’ll continue to “accidentally” send texts, or like someone or send a bill showing where you are going or whatever these “accidental” cries for attention are.
I hope one day you decide to actually do something healthy about what has happened and where you are going on life
I hear you.
I'm sorry to hear about the men you are dating. I'm not disguising who I am OR what I'm going through. I would NEVER want to mislead anyone. I truly got my feelings hurt by pilot and I would never want to inflict that on someone else. I value honesty above all else and always give it first since I expect it of others.
Sure, I've run into men who are married who state their wifes are fine with side dishes and those who's wifes don't know. I'm not everyone's cup of tea or vice versa but I don't hide behind anything or misrepresent myself. Every guy that goes out with me knows my starting point.
Sure, I've run into men who are married who state their wifes are fine with side dishes and those who's wifes don't know.
You go out on dates with guys like this?
Sure, I've run into men who are married who state their wifes are fine with side dishes and those who's wifes don't know.
You go out on dates with guys like this?
HARD NO
I'm just saying they are out...
See, you say you were hurt by the pilot. But you were actually hurt by yourself. He was not comfortable with the situation and he decided to exit. Time went on and the unresolved issues you had became evident to him and he didn’t want to be a part of that. I don’t blame him. He isn’t hurting you. You are putting yourself in positions to hurt yourself
See, you say you were hurt by the pilot. But you were actually hurt by yourself. He was not comfortable with the situation and he decided to exit. Time went on and the unresolved issues you had became evident to him and he didn’t want to be a part of that. I don’t blame him. He isn’t hurting you. You are putting yourself in positions to hurt yourself
Point taken.
I got hurt by that whole situation.
And, we all put ourselves in situations everyday where we risk getting hurt. Its called being vulnerable.
Lesson learned.
I agree with Ginger.
Kit - You aren't going to find a good guy until you deal with your stuff. First it was your ex, then pilot, then you will get hurt by a another guy, and another. You will come here and post asking how you can lock another guy down. Rinse wash repeat.
You will continue down this path until you can respect that the Universe is trying to teach you something (and it's not how to date).
I agree with Ginger.
Kit - You aren't going to find a good guy until you deal with your stuff. First it was your ex, then pilot, then you will get hurt by a another guy, and another. You will come here and post asking how you can lock another guy down. Rinse wash repeat.
You will continue down this path until you can respect that the Universe is trying to teach you something (and it's not how to date).
Thank you...
But, I'm not looking to LOCK down anyone.
I wasn't looking... but fell for pilot.
I'm out having good conversation, making connections, having fun. Many have asked for friendship which I'm fine with. Some go away after a date which I'm fine with.
I wasn't necessarily looking for "the one" seeing how I'm only separated and not divorced. I was just out having fun, living life and "fell" for the one who was not on the same page as myself. It happens.
But, I hear each and every one of you. I should not be dating... I'm listening... and will step away from dating.
How many dates did you have with the pilot?
How many dates did you have with the pilot?
6 in person dates... lots of texting...
It is what it is. We did not really know each other. I just caught feeling when I should not have... it happens. Won't make that mistake again.
How many dates did you have with the pilot?
6 in person dates... lots of texting...
It is what it is. We did not really know each other. I just caught feeling when I should not have... it happens. Won't make that mistake again.
I am not sure deciding who to fall for and who not to fall for is "a mistake" or something you can control. I think if you are dating someone and sleeping with them, the chance for falling for them is always there. Heck, Hollywood makes dozens of movies a year based on that.
How many dates did you have with the pilot?
6 in person dates... lots of texting...
It is what it is. We did not really know each other. I just caught feeling when I should not have... it happens. Won't make that mistake again.
I am not sure deciding who to fall for and who not to fall for is "a mistake" or something you can control. I think if you are dating someone and sleeping with them, the chance for falling for them is always there. Heck, Hollywood makes dozens of movies a year based on that.
Thank you for not making me feel like an idiot.
I think it stings more based on his reason for not talking with me anymore.
I 100% get that he feels that "I"m a married woman" and regardless of what the papers say I'm not going through a D because he's been through a D and I'm clearly not. That my STBXH footed my vaca.
^^^That's how he "feels".
Okay - my vaca was footed from joint assets I equally paid into and STBXH insisted I use (out of guilt and he clearly just doesn't want to deal with the timeshare and never did) STBXH is paying off the timeshare because of said guilt and he doesn't want me stuck with his BAD decision about the timeshare.
HOWEVER - when he stated I completely lacked empathy in regards to his dogs which are his "kids" I was floored. REALLY??? He went on about how I was not understanding of his work situation and all his stress at home. SERIOUSLY??? I left him with the impression I was not the least bit interested in getting him to open up about these things.
^^^That is where I hit my head over and over. I was VERY interested in him and knowing more about him.
He looks at me as a waste of his time. That hurts. All I can do is move forward.
Anyway lesson learned.
For whatever reason he decided this wasn’t working, he decided after 6 dates it wasn’t working and then you kind of went psycho on him. Dating is to decide if a situation works for someone and it didn’t work for him. Dating a married woman who he could sense was still hooked on her ex . And said “not for me”
After 6 dates, you should be “ok, this kind of hurts but his choice” and not obsess and just simply walk away with grace.
Until you work on yourself, you will like someone again, they may not be feeling it, and you will repeat the cycle instead of walking away from it .
But it’s like beating a dead horse to death. You will frame what you are doing in the light that suits you best.
For whatever reason he decided this wasn’t working, he decided after 6 dates it wasn’t working and then you kind of went psycho on him. Dating is to decide if a situation works for someone and it didn’t work for him. Dating a married woman who he could sense was still hooked on her ex . And said “not for me”
After 6 dates, you should be “ok, this kind of hurts but his choice” and not obsess and just simply walk away with grace.
Until you work on yourself, you will like someone again, they may not be feeling it, and you will repeat the cycle instead of walking away from it .
But it’s like beating a dead horse to death. You will frame what you are doing in the light that suits you best.
NOPE... done with that...
I saw the mistakes I made with him. I was certainly rusty on my dating skills for sure. I missed KEY things he brought up.... He knew I was NOT D. He started talking discussing who all I was dating... was I a "player" on the 3rd date... do you really discuss exclusivity on 3rd date??? I am new to dating again and I thought that was too soon. I just said I was not a player... not my MO but I sort of blew it off cause it was just a third date.
NO. I will not get sucked in so easily again.
I've got a guy who I have a third date with this weekend and he is chasing hard... and I'm like slow down space cowboy. I'm still working on D and I have no idea what I'm doing. AND, I'm crystal clear with him and all of that. But, I think after this weekend I need to take a break from him. Its too much.
Hi KitCat,
He started talking discussing who all I was dating... was I a "player" on the 3rd date... do you really discuss exclusivity on 3rd date???
If you want to be exclusive, yes, if you don't want to be exclusive, no.
I am new to dating again and I thought that was too soon.
If it feels too soon, "No" is a great answer. I would encourage against trying to answer the way you think will please people, and instead to answer genuinely based on your desires. That will attract people who are seeking people like you! It sounds obvious, but it's probably why I get so many 1st and 2nd dates. Of course, your last two partners seemed abusive, so try to get therapy going before you date more.
Hi KitCat,
He started talking discussing who all I was dating... was I a "player" on the 3rd date... do you really discuss exclusivity on 3rd date???
If you want to be exclusive, yes, if you don't want to be exclusive, no.
I am new to dating again and I thought that was too soon.
If it feels too soon, "No" is a great answer. I would encourage against trying to answer the way you think will please people, and instead to answer genuinely based on your desires. That will attract people who are seeking people like you! It sounds obvious, but it's probably why I get so many 1st and 2nd dates. Of course, your last two partners seemed abusive, so try to get therapy going before you date more.
But - had he just come out and asked OR if I was in a place where I wasn't feeling weird because frankly this was the SECOND guy I'd gone out with when I just started dating.
IF he had just come out and said something about being exclusive OR how I felt about when was a good time to discuss such things... I WOULD HAVE EXCLUSIVELY dated him. Frankly, I was playing it cool... I did not want to appear overeager OR too into him.
I had not dated in 12yr... I was such a noob again.
Look I accept that I completely blew it with this guy. And, there are no second chances when you only dated someone 6 times.
He was NOT perfect. He certainly had a lot of chaos in his life. He was not very clear on what he needed... I often took some of his texts to mean he wanted to not talk/space but then looking back perhaps he wanted to talk and I was not asking the right questions? I don't know.
He certainly had NO problem being clear in the END.
Why am I even rehashing this??? I'm just prolonging my suffering.
Frankly, I was playing it cool... I did not want to appear overeager OR too into him.
If you're NEXTed for being genuine, at least you know you two were not a good match. If you're NEXTed for playing a role, you never know what might have happened if you were genuine, and besides the mask will eventually fall off and they'll NEXT you then if they don't like the genuine you. If there's an issue you're trying to hide behind a mask, work on the issue, not the mask. You have some amazing in you. No masks.
PS - If you're curious about norms, in my experience most women discuss STIs and sexual exclusivity before they get intimate for the first time.
KC,
You know we all obviously think you aren't ready to date. You kind of proved it by saying the pilot was a one night stand and than you caught feelings and latched onto him way to quick, and than wouldn't let go when he tried to shake you! My brother had a match profile about 6 months ago..you didn't like him accidentally, but that is ok.
You know you need therapy, you won't get it. You know you need time to heal, yet you won't allow that time. You know you need to focus on yourself and healing, but you are relying on going on dates/ and other men to heal you.
You are caught in a vicious cycle of self destruction and self harm emotionally. Worse yet you know it and justify it, acknowledging it, and keep doing it anyway.
I'm really glad that you posted and faced the "tough crowd" again if you will.
Still rooting for you to find your own inner peace, hope, and happiness without needing to find it in worthless dates, and self destruction!
Take care of yourself!
How many dates did you have with the pilot?
6 in person dates... lots of texting...
It is what it is. We did not really know each other. I just caught feeling when I should not have... it happens. Won't make that mistake again.
I am not sure deciding who to fall for and who not to fall for is "a mistake" or something you can control. I think if you are dating someone and sleeping with them, the chance for falling for them is always there. Heck, Hollywood makes dozens of movies a year based on that.
Thank you for not making me feel like an idiot.
I think it stings more based on his reason for not talking with me anymore.
I 100% get that he feels that "I"m a married woman" and regardless of what the papers say I'm not going through a D because he's been through a D and I'm clearly not. That my STBXH footed my vaca.
^^^That's how he "feels".
Okay - my vaca was footed from joint assets I equally paid into and STBXH insisted I use (out of guilt and he clearly just doesn't want to deal with the timeshare and never did) STBXH is paying off the timeshare because of said guilt and he doesn't want me stuck with his BAD decision about the timeshare.
HOWEVER - when he stated I completely lacked empathy in regards to his dogs which are his "kids" I was floored. REALLY??? He went on about how I was not understanding of his work situation and all his stress at home. SERIOUSLY??? I left him with the impression I was not the least bit interested in getting him to open up about these things.
^^^That is where I hit my head over and over. I was VERY interested in him and knowing more about him.
He looks at me as a waste of his time. That hurts. All I can do is move forward.
Anyway lesson learned.
You are not an idiot. KC, as I said my observation is that you try to make your reality what YOU WANT it to be, and not what it really is. And that is what you are doing with this pilot.
The fact is that he didn't want more with you. Everything he said you quoted above is crap. Excuses not to continue with you. As others have said, he simply wasn't THAT into you. He liked your body. He liked having sex. But that was all it was for him.
Yes he said you didn't talk. That you didn't empathize with his dogs (doesn't even make sense, you are a VET!!). That you didn't understand his stress. GARBAGE ALL OF IT. Just like your WAH, you cannot believe a word this walkaway pilot says! He is saying what is convenient at the moment to get you to leave him alone. I hope that if you learned nothing else from DBing you've learned that you cannot trust the words that come out of person's mouth as they are sprinting for the exit of a R.
Chin up. New day. Live and learn, KC!
PS - If you're curious about norms, in my experience most women discuss STIs and sexual exclusivity before they get intimate for the first time.
This all the way. I know we are all grown and sex may be casual for some but for someone like myself, someone who has respect for a woman, who is looking for a respectable woman to have a relationship with etc., having sex so soon would be a huge turn off for me and there would be no way in heck that I would ever consider being serious with that person. I might go along and get caught up in the moment but once I thought about it all I would be like heck no, heck no! Hence this is why I think he hit you with the player question as well, it is just not a good look, especially with the optics of showing up half naked at his door. I know this is not your normal M.O. but I think this might have been a big reason why it didn't move forward, it's highly possible. And for him to do the same with regards to sexual advances so early with you should raise big red flags about how he is a man, is he a player? The same could be said on both ends. I know if you show yourself immense respect that you will attract guys who will respect and cherish you because you are such a sweetheart.
Be good to yourself ok and the rest will follow naturally.
Take care and good luck.
usc,
Please start a thread so that our posters can visit with you on your thread and offer support/advice to you.
KC,
Sorry for the hi-jack.
I saw a new meme today and its soooo me...
I'm shy at first, then BOOM, most annoying person you'll ever met.
^^^^^OMG, perfect analogy of me...
UGH. Its been a hard week.
UGH. Its been a hard week.
Sorry to hear it's been a tough week! Want to talk about it?
PS - I'm not annoyed by you--yet! Maybe the BOOM is one more month away.
UGH. Its been a hard week.
Sorry to hear it's been a tough week! Want to talk about it?
PS - I'm not annoyed by you--yet! Maybe the BOOM is one more month away.
Its funny BECAUSE I am so freaking shy. But, once someone really invests the walls come down. I remember being in college as a freshman working in the dorm cafeteria... I was quiet and just observing everyone. As a sophomore I knew everyone (except the new freshmen) and I was chatty Cathy. Come to find out my close group of friends all thought I was stuck up because I was so quiet. They couldn't believe that I was just so shy and then how cool I really was.
I don't want to be judged... I'm just honestly having a hard time getting over pilot. I don't know why... I get it on a deeper level but it still just guts me. I'm trying to learn not to act upon it though... that's some serious baby steps. Yup... I'm the girl who went out of her way to be liked by everyone.
Anyway.... I know I know... just get over it. For some reason its hard and taking me longer than it should.
Then there's the whole mess with my STBXH. Do I just smile and wave??? Pretend life is all good OR do I call him out on his BS and all the lying he is doing. Why lie??? We live a no fault state. Whether he lives with someone or not has not bearing on D... so why lie. Why should I even care? Yes, I love seeing the puppy... I love taking care of the puppy... I did a darn good job on his surgery. But, yes its just picking at a scab to see him and have him continue to lie to me. STBXH will randomly send photos of the knives he is making in his forge... he wants to share??? Is this a "bid" for attention? IDK what to make of the days he starts with a business texts and then its 2hr of other texts that are not necessary. I suppose I will be told its to keep me on the string or to see if I'm still on the string as Plan B.
So its all my doing. I stepped in the pile of pig slop.
I'm just trying to put one foot in front of the other and keep moving. I accept each day as it is...
KK,
The pilot thing is weird. You should not be that attached after 6 days. Something to to discuss with your IC lol.
As for you STBXH. You shouldn’t let him wean himself off you. You should make him go cold turkey.
I’ve told you before that right now you are not even plan B. You’re somewhere between Q and T. He’s NEVER going to learn to miss you.
Unfortunately being the person you are, you know best. (Insert LH eye roll)
I'm just honestly having a hard time getting over pilot.
It's understandable. The first new person you're intimate with in 10+ years has an impact on most people. Besides that, your STBXH clearly left a void, and pilot filled it, probably better than STBXH in some ways.
don't want to be judged... I get it on a deeper level but it still just guts me.
Setting aside whether it was wise, it was brave putting your heart out there, showing up naked on his doorstep. We know KitCat is loyal, generous, and compassionate. Commendable traits.
Once you work through your ex baggage, and feel strong on your own, you'll be in high demand.
Why lie??? We live a no fault state. Whether he lives with someone or not has not bearing on D... so why lie. Why should I even care? But, yes its just picking at a scab to see him..
It sounds like your brain knows what to do, and knows "why" he does things no longer matters. I can't wait for the day your brain convinces your heart and you go NC and move forward with your life.
By now it can't be a puppy any more, can it?
KK,
The pilot thing is weird. You should not be that attached after 6 days. Something to to discuss with your IC lol.
As for you STBXH. You shouldn’t let him wean himself off you. You should make him go cold turkey.
I’ve told you before that right now you are not even plan B. You’re somewhere between Q and T. He’s NEVER going to learn to miss you.
Unfortunately being the person you are, you know best. (Insert LH eye roll)
I've never said "I know best"... but I recognize I'm a fallible human and that LH cannot logic my emotions... LOL!!!
Pilot is not weird when you recognize how vulnerable I allowed myself to be with him. I've had lots of first dates... several second dates and some thirds... I've got someone who is trying to convince me to exclusive with him. They can all walk at any given time and I won't bat an eye. While my walls were not coming down fast enough or the right ones I will never know... but I haven't put myself out there like that with anyone outside my STBXH 12yr ago.
So I can own that I know I should not be hung up... but I also own why I am. I also realize that I am impulsive. Its a crazy odd mix of being incredibly shy... yet crazy impulsive. I get it that to two don't really go together so I'm just a conundrum!
Well its good to know that I'm not even PLAN B. He shares the pics because he thinks we are just friends then. Which wouldn't bother me except that he lives with OW and is taking OW to Hawaii. So its like... really??? Do you tell her that you send me pictures of what you are working on?
And, frankly he has a lot of work do to on himself before there could ever be any recon... I could not return to his past behaviors... EVER.
KK,
The pilot thing is weird. You should not be that attached after 6 days. Something to to discuss with your IC lol.
As for you STBXH. You shouldn’t let him wean himself off you. You should make him go cold turkey.
I’ve told you before that right now you are not even plan B. You’re somewhere between Q and T. He’s NEVER going to learn to miss you.
Unfortunately being the person you are, you know best. (Insert LH eye roll)
I've never said "I know best"... but I recognize I'm a fallible human and that LH cannot logic my emotions... LOL!!!
Pilot is not weird when you recognize how vulnerable I allowed myself to be with him. I've had lots of first dates... several second dates and some thirds... I've got someone who is trying to convince me to exclusive with him. They can all walk at any given time and I won't bat an eye. While my walls were not coming down fast enough or the right ones I will never know... but I haven't put myself out there like that with anyone outside my STBXH 12yr ago.
So I can own that I know I should not be hung up... but I also own why I am. I also realize that I am impulsive. Its a crazy odd mix of being incredibly shy... yet crazy impulsive. I get it that to two don't really go together so I'm just a conundrum!
Well its good to know that I'm not even PLAN B. He shares the pics because he thinks we are just friends then. Which wouldn't bother me except that he lives with OW and is taking OW to Hawaii. So its like... really??? Do you tell her that you send me pictures of what you are working on?
And, frankly he has a lot of work do to on himself before there could ever be any recon... I could not return to his past behaviors... EVER.
Maybe OW knows he sends you photos and doesn’t view you as a threat.