Quick outline for H's who have been BD'd by WW

[sandi2]

Plan of Action for the Husband with a Wayward Wife

Following the initial bomb drop or discovery of an affair, you will be highly stressed and emotionally vulnerable. You will be in a state of reaction for a period of time, which places your decisions and behavior at risk. This emotional state can leave you experiencing waves of various feelings and moods. The natural reaction is usually to secure the relationship ASAP. However, nothing will immediately result in your favor until you can reach stability and have clarity in your own head.

I. Accept what you cannot control or change.

A. Accept that you cannot control your wife’s feelings, decisions, or actions.

B. Accept the fact that the bomb was not your wayward wife’s way of warning you that the marriage was in trouble. She was not trying to wake you in order to work on the marriage. It was her way of telling you it is too late and she is done with it. Do not act upon your urges to plead with her for another chance. Do not try to prove how much you love her. This is not the time. She doesn’t want it and will reject it.

C. Accept that no matter how badly you wish to correct your faults in the marriage and only want a chance to prove yourself as a better husband, she has moved past that point.

D. Accept the painful fact that your WW does not want to work on the MR. She does not feel in love with you, and is not the same person you married.

E. Accept that your WW is not going to snap back into the wife and mother that she was in the past. This is not going to be a short run. She has to go through a process, and there is no snapping back into normality.

F. Accept that you will not be able to control the lives of your children when they are with her. You will not be able to prevent her from introducing them to whomever she wishes, including her affair partner.

G. Accept the fact that you are the only person you can control.

II. Regain mental stability and clarity.

A. Let go of the fear of upsetting her. She has expressed her loss of happiness and love, and is considering a separation or divorce. At this point, she has fired you as her husband. Begin thinking of your WW and yourself as two entities.

B. Break your habit of rescuing her. It is not your responsibility to make her happy or fix things for her. Allow her to deal with consequences of her behavior and decisions. Stop putting forth effort to be her husband, in the practical sense.

C. Do not lie to cover up for her. This is her mess and her responsibility to clean it up. She will have to deal with the fallout without you recuing her.

D. Let go of your habit of over explaining or giving an account to your wife.

E. Do not make any rash decisions. Whatever decisions you are thinking about, run it by the DB board or your confidant, to get an unbiased opinion. You are vulnerable to your emotions.

F. Do not be concerned about what she thinks of you or your decisions/actions during this period. Whenever you catch yourself worrying what she thinks of your actions or reactions, remember your goal is to get your mind and emotions to a place of stability and clarity. As long as you are focused on what she thinks or feels, you aren’t focused on your goal.

III. Proactive steps

A. Separate yourself from the emotional drama of the WW. Put space between you and your WW. Do not engage in relationship discussions. Don’t try to secure the relationship by getting a commitment from your W. During this period, do not make any promises or agree to any changes that will directly affect your future. Do not talk about your feelings for her, or tell her you don’t want a D and how committed you are to saving the M.

B. Follow the 37 rules that are pertinent to your situation.

C. Focus on self healing, rather than relationship healing. Gather reading material, confide in someone who is professionally bound to confidentiality, meditate, take alone time outside with nature, listen to motivational tapes, post on the DB board, and listen to music that energizes you. Socialize with positive people, and those who honestly love you. Don’t seek communication, solace, or advice with her circle of friends or relatives. Stay off Face Book and other social media types. Take exceptional care of your physical wellness. It is not a sign of weakness to take medication, if needed. Talk to the man in the mirror every morning while shaving. You need to be his best friend.

D. Seek legal counsel to know your rights and where you will stand financially, should you divorce, pay child support, seek custody, etc. Learn what steps to take in protecting yourself in these areas, and anything else.

E. In cases of separation, have a child care/visitation schedule for the parents.

F. GAL!

G. No more Mr. Nice Guy! Stop being a pushover, and stand up for yourself. Appeasing a WW does not score brownie points.

[sandi2]

Crud! I messed up the thread title, and can't remember how to correct it. Help?

[BL42]

sandi2,

That's a fantastic outline/summary. Thanks for taking the time to share, great read. It seems like one to bookmark or add to Ready2Change's "Quotes Found on DivorceBusting" threads!C

[SteveLW]

B. Accept the fact that the bomb was not your wayward wife’s way of warning you that the marriage was in trouble. She was not trying to wake you in order to work on the marriage. It was her way of telling you it is too late and she is done with it. Do not act upon your urges to plead with her for another chance. Do not try to prove how much you love her. This is not the time. She doesn’t want it and will reject it.

SUCH A GREAT POINT. I know I struggled with this. I see other LBHs really struggling with this. The time to "fix" the marriage was up to two years prior! By time the WAW/WW gets up the nerve to blow things up, it is too late at that point. Which is why becoming super-Husband has little to no chance of working, even though that is the instinctual and intuitive response.

[AnotherStander]

Great post Sandi, awesome stuff!

Crud! I messed up the thread title, and can't remember how to correct it. Help?

You can't, but I think Job or Cadet can. I don't think you can "report" your own post so I'll report yours to get their attention.

[Cadet]

I hope that is what you want

[Joe2017]

SUCH A GREAT POINT. I know I struggled with this. I see other LBHs really struggling with this. The time to "fix" the marriage was up to two years prior! By time the WAW/WW gets up the nerve to blow things up, it is too late at that point. Which is why becoming super-Husband has little to no chance of working, even though that is the instinctual and intuitive response.

This really is a good point. It takes a little while to understand this because oftentimes the BD is a surprise to the LBH, while the WW has been thinking about doing this for a considerable time. There is little room for negotiation at this point. It's a huge bummer to realize this, but it is essential so that you can move on.

C. Focus on self healing, rather than relationship healing. Gather reading material, confide in someone who is professionally bound to confidentiality, meditate, take alone time outside with nature, listen to motivational tapes, post on the DB board, and listen to music that energizes you. Socialize with positive people, and those who honestly love you. Don’t seek communication, solace, or advice with her circle of friends or relatives. Stay off Face Book and other social media types. Take exceptional care of your physical wellness. It is not a sign of weakness to take medication, if needed. Talk to the man in the mirror every morning while shaving. You need to be his best friend.

I like the social media advice. It is very very tempting to go spy on your WW's social media... I did it. She never unfriended me. She almost relished in the idea that I could see the things she was doing with the OM. It hurt me a WHOLE lot.

My suggestion for social media is to post a positive and smiling profile picture of yourself, and then log out until you heal up some. Don't post anything that hints at any kind of marital issues. Don't dog your WW out on social media, don't start a GoFundMe for your legal defense, seek any kind of attention, or ANYTHING like that. She and her friends and her OM are going to be stalking your profile. Your marriage is now a divorce, which is a very public business transaction. Stay professional at all times. Post a smiling profile picture, set your profile to private, and then log out and go radio silent on social media. Do NOT EVER stalk her social media. It will only hurt you constantly.

[SteveLW]

sandi, any chance you could try to help Steve_ out? His WW is especially difficult.

[Steve_]

Great post. Hit every event that occurred and is still occurring. Now she’s leaning to recon at her pace. Its actually laughable how she actually things she even slightly deserves me. A WW is the epitome of selfishness and arrogance. I hope she emotionally burns for what she did, and until I smell the sizzling regret I won’t lift a damn finger for her. Tired of being captain NGS.

[sandi2]

I hope that is what you want

Yes, thanks Cadet.

[sandi2]

A big thanks to everyone for your kind words. We learn from one another. I've learned a lot from the LBS's.

Originally Posted by sandi2
B. Accept the fact that the bomb was not your wayward wife’s way of warning you that the marriage was in trouble. She was not trying to wake you in order to work on the marriage. It was her way of telling you it is too late and she is done with it. Do not act upon your urges to plead with her for another chance. Do not try to prove how much you love her. This is not the time. She doesn’t want it and will reject it.

Originally Posted by Joe2017
This really is a good point. It takes a little while to understand this because oftentimes the BD is a surprise to the LBH, while the WW has been thinking about doing this for a considerable time. There is little room for negotiation at this point. It's a huge bummer to realize this, but it is essential so that you can move on.

I think that's why some LBH's see their WW as being in a big hurry to move things along. It causes him to panic and frantically search for a quick solution before time is up. What he doesn't really grasp is that time is already up......as for as she's concerned. Therefore, all his attempts at winning her back, does nothing to stir her desire for him. Trying to win her means he is pursuing her.........which is the last thing he should be doing at this point. I think it's difficult for him to see his actions as pursuit.

[sandi2]

sandi, any chance you could try to help Steve_ out? His WW is especially difficult.

I'll be glad to take a look and see if I can add anything. Thanks Steve85.

[Drh2001]

Hi Sandi, great post and very timely!

My own comments and observations....



I. Accept what you cannot control or change.

"B. Accept the fact that the bomb was not your wayward wife’s way of warning you that the marriage was in trouble. She was not trying to wake you in order to work on the marriage. It was her way of telling you it is too late and she is done with it."


Very true! You wrote in an earlier post about a WW's unique way of disrespecting her H. This was true of my WW. I didn't realize it at the time but she would dismiss me whenever I wanted to talk to her about anything. She wouldn't even look at me but would say things like "I'm busy", "I'm reading", "I'm watching my show." Even when we were in the car on a long trip she would put her headphones in and refuse to make any conversation with me. I put it down to just moodiness but now I look back and I can see exactly what you described.



"C. Accept that no matter how badly you wish to correct your faults in the marriage and only want a chance to prove yourself as a better husband, she has moved past that point."


This is so true. Nothing works at this point and the 180s are for us. They might get her attention but WW's heart and mind is set for rebellion. They want out.



"D. Accept the painful fact that your WW does not want to work on the MR. She does not feel in love with you, and is not the same person you married."


A few days after WW told me she wanted a separation, she texted me "I'm a single woman." You describe the WW mindset as cold and dark. It's as if they've become the worst version of themselves they could possibly be. Her behavior got more and more erratic, emotionally driven and unpredictable. Every day was a battle for me.



"E. Accept that your WW is not going to snap back into the wife and mother that she was in the past. This is not going to be a short run. She has to go through a process, and there is no snapping back into normality."


The part about the "mother" is interesting because it's not just the H she rebels against but her role as a mother. Last year WW completely stopped cooking for six weeks, telling me she had "mentally checked out." I told her you don't have to cook for me but at least cook for the kids. She told me if she cooks for them it makes her feel like she's not moving on! My kids were upset with her and I had to pick up the slack as we would take turns cooking. I told her she carried them for nine months and now she doesn't want to feed them and her reply was "I don't need to cook for my kids. I provide for them emotionally and financially."

What was weird is I caught her taking a pot and saucepan with her so she could cook for OM and his kids. After a time, the guilt got to her and she started to cook for my kids again but it was sporadic.

Another thing she did was come home from work and them immediately leave to be with OM. WW told me the kids felt abandoned by her whenever she did this. She spent less and less time with them.

Recently, she made a FB post about being in a new relationship with OM. She gave people the impression she took the kids and moved out a year ago but didn't tell them she was living with me all this time. We are now separated. She posted that "the kids are fine" and then tells me privately the kids are going through trauma. I was the one who got them in therapy while she did nothing.



"F. Accept that you will not be able to control the lives of your children when they are with her. You will not be able to prevent her from introducing them to whomever she wishes, including her affair partner."


She introduced my kids to OM and within three months she moved in with him and now my kids spend long weekends with her at OM's house. I was really upset about this. She kept bringing the date forwards all the time and told me OM wanted her to move in early so they can get used to being around each other. The irony is she is a full time mother to his kids and a part time mother to mine. How messed up is that?



II. Regain mental stability and clarity.

"B. Break your habit of rescuing her. It is not your responsibility to make her happy or fix things for her. Allow her to deal with consequences of her behavior and decisions. Stop putting forth effort to be her husband, in the practical sense."


I mentioned in a recent post how this was difficult for me to do. Even after she moved out I still reminded her to check her car fluids.



"E. Do not make any rash decisions. Whatever decisions you are thinking about, run it by the DB board or your confidant, to get an unbiased opinion. You are vulnerable to your emotions."


This is good advice especially for new members. Sometimes we need a 2*4 from some of the forum members to knock some sense into us.



I have a few questions.

1. Is it more likely that the WW leaves the marital home to be with OM rather than the husband move out?

2. What do you think of in-house separation? In my case, WW's behavior got progressively more erratic and emotionally driven which had a negative effect on me and my moods which in turn upset the peace of the household. It's even more difficult when you have children. Her outrageous behavior created a toxic atmosphere.

3. When I found this forum I thought the 180s were to get WW to notice our changes and maybe they would want to R but as Sandi said, they are done with the marriage. The 180s are for us to improve ourselves. It seems then, that a physical separation must occur first, in order for the WW to experience natural consequences.

4. I've read of the term "affair fog" on some other websites. How does this fit into the mindset of a WW?

[sandi2]

Is it more likely that the WW leaves the marital home to be with OM rather than the husband move out?

I'd guess it's about 50/50. It depends on the individual situation. WW's have an extreme sense of entitlement and think the LBH should just be a gentleman and move out and continue paying the bills........ while she gets to remain in the home and carry on with OM. It also depends on OM's setup. Does he want to live with her, or is he married, have kids, etc.? Can she afford another place, or can she stay with her relatives/friends? Is this a long distant affair, and things of that nature that would determine her moving out or staying? I think the H who moves out are those who have not sought advise about this move, and/or they think that's just something that a man does when his W is cheating. There are extreme cases where the WW is causing so much havoc in the home (nasty bullying, calling cops, domestic violence, etc.) that he has to get away from her if she won't leave.

What do you think of in-house separation? In my case, WW's behavior got progressively more erratic and emotionally driven which had a negative effect on me and my moods which in turn upset the peace of the household. It's even more difficult when you have children. Her outrageous behavior created a toxic atmosphere.

I think in-house separation stinks! They aren't truly separated. It's the epitome of cake eating for the WW, and a slow tortuous death for the LBH. The best description I've heard from a LBH who was IHS is "it's soul crushing".

When I found this forum I thought the 180s were to get WW to notice our changes and maybe they would want to R but as Sandi said, they are done with the marriage. The 180s are for us to improve ourselves. It seems then, that a physical separation must occur first, in order for the WW to experience natural consequences.

Well, that's the way I see it, but I'm sure there are grounds for argument. Once the LBH gets the idea in his head that 180's are all about pleasing her........becoming what he thinks women want in a H (which is completely wrong).......it's difficult to get him to see it differently. What really gets me is when the first 180 many LBH's do.........is house keeping, cooking, laundry, etc. I haven't seen a WW yet that was swept away by her H becoming the housemaid.

Another point about the 180's is that some newcomers think they are suppose to do the opposite of EVERYTHING. Usually they put their own twist on it, but it all leads back to justifying their NGS and trying to win back the WW. I use to give a lot of examples of 180's and things to do to get the WS's attention and curiosity ......but now I see some of that stuff as a bit superficial. Nothing is more effective than letting her go and focusing on his own self respect and growth as a man........not as her husband. That's the biggest 180 the LBH can do, when he has a wayward W.

I've read of the term "affair fog" on some other websites. How does this fit into the mindset of a WW?

It's not the greatest term, but I think it's to help the LBS understand the thought pattern and/or mindset of the one having an affair. The wayward spouse is acting out of character, and seemingly unable to process things in a logical manner.......b/c their brain chemistry is effected by the affair. Her fantasy is attached to the affair, and it's overtaking her reality. In other words, she's in la-la land. It's not a good combination with her resentment, disrespect, & rebellion she already feels toward her H.

Thanks for your comments, Drh.

[Drh2001]

Sandi,

I have a question that I don't believe has been asked here.

Shortly after BD, WW told me I should start dating and that she hopes I'll find happiness with someone else. This was definitely not what I wanted to do. I wanted to save the marriage,

Do WWs say this to make themselves feel better about what they are doing?

[BL42]

Drh2001,

I'm not Sandi, but tend to believe you're correct - many do feel bad about what they're doing because they know it's wrong and are hurting someone they cared about enough to marry and vowed to love, so they're trying to be "nice" about it (if that's at all possible).

[Traveler]

Drh2001,

I've also seen it used to help explain the situation to family and friends--you agreed to an open marriage. That's only for the LBSs who fall into the trap, of course!

[Drh2001]

BL42,

I think you might be right.


CWarrior,


When WW first announced the separation, she asked me for an open marriage. She was given this advice by a friend of the family who was also cheating on her husband. I said no to this, and that it's not something I feel comfortable with.


At that time, she wanted to keep the house and buy me out but on her salary it wasn't possible, so she would need to get a better paying job. We agreed to have an in-house separation and she wanted a separation agreement in writing. We went back and forwards on the separation agreement until we agreed (reluctantly, I'll explain why) on everything. We would have designated areas to sleep in and would co-parent our kids. At that time, she did not currently have OM. She wanted a clause that allowed her to date but she agreed not bring anyone back to the house, even telling me "I prefer a guy with kids but who doesn't want any more kids."

I very reluctantly added that to the agreement [and I add here I guess I fell into that trap you speak of CWarrior], though I myself had no intention of dating. I still wanted to save my marriage. I have children at home and didn't want to put them through all that and expose them to that lifestyle. One could say I was fearful of what would happen if I didn't agree to her dating other men - part of me hoped she wouldn't and I actually believed she wouldn't because she was a good person with morals and a good mother. Boy was I wrong about that.

The agreement was signed and notarized but less than two weeks later, before the ink had barely dried, she was already seeing someone in secret, lying to my kids about who she was hanging out with and coming home after midnight. She told me she didn't want to find a better job or buy me out and was focused on OM.

She kept lying to me and told me she was separated. I told her you are a married woman who lives with her husband and kids. You have not left the home nor have you filed for divorce. You are not separated and that is just a pretend status to justify your actions. she screamed the place down when I told her this.

Her response was: "Separation was in August. I was faithfully married to that point and after that I considered myself free. That's all there is to it. You feel betrayed, I get it. Clearly you will never see it for what it is."


Four months later she decided he was the one and started planning on moving in with him and he has children from a previous marriage.

[Drh2001]

Drh2001,

I've also seen it used to help explain the situation to family and friends--you agreed to an open marriage. That's only for the LBSs who fall into the trap, of course!

This is an interesting comment. My WW was in an A with OM for almost a year while she lived with me and the children. A couple of months ago she posted on FB she was in a new relationship but made it seem as though she had taken the kids and left me a long time ago.

This allowed her friends and family to believe she had physically lived apart from me for a year and made it seem as though she had just met OM. Lies and deception on her part.

She is getting some push back from ppl who know the truth and are shocked by her behavior but many of her social media friends have never met me and don't know the whole story.

FYI I blocked her on SM but someone informed me of her post and told me she is being deceitful.

One person who does know me called and sympathized with my situation and told me "you probably don't get to see the kids that much" and I told her the truth. I said I have the kids during the school week and she gets long weekends. This person was shocked and didn't know what to say because she believed WW's lying post that she'd left me and taken the kids a long time ago.

[Drh2001]

I wanted to add a followup to my prev post.

WW told me that "it's not cheating if you tell your spouse you're separated."

She was fed this lie by the same friend of the family who told her to ask me for an open marriage and who also cheated on her husband with a married man.

[sandi2]

I have a question that I don't believe has been asked here.

Shortly after BD, WW told me I should start dating and that she hopes I'll find happiness with someone else. This was definitely not what I wanted to do. I wanted to save the marriage,

Do WWs say this to make themselves feel better about what they are doing?

For the WW to tell the LBH that he should date, is like giving a hurt kid some toy to distract him from his pain.

Some will tell the LBH to date, as a way of convincing him that she's really over the M and won't consider reconciliation, and she wants to move on. In other words, it's a way to get LBH off her back. Some WW's think if the LBH dates, it will take some of the pressure off her reputation as the bad guy that tore up the family. Yes, I suppose there are a few WW's who feel some degree of guilt and see the LBH dating as a way of releasing that guilt.

Here's the thing, I don't think most WW's feel the degree of guilt that you would assume she'd have. B/c you are thinking from a logical & moral point of reference, and people who lie, betray, deceive, cheat, and tear apart families should be eaten up with guilt. Right? Feeling guilt is pretty shallow while she's in the affair. She doesn't feel shame. It's not regret. It's not remorse. And if she feels any of these, it's to a low degree. Remember, her heart has hardened and she is not the girl she once was (in most cases). She feels justified, b/c it's time for "her happiness". How can you feel guilt and justification at the same time? Another thing to consider is the drug-like excitement she gets from the "forbidden" love affair. It's strong enough to smother her previous code of conduct, morals, religious teachings, family values, etc.

There are different levels or depths of waywardness........b/c every person is not exactly alike. Although the stories we read here sound somewhat similar and the behavior of the WW often sound as if they have read the same playbook...... the individual woman with her baggage of negativity; resentment and disrespect for her H; her background; family of origin; and her personality traits can influence the depths she will go when acting out in rebellion. If anger/rage is a big part of her rebellion, then she's going to be mean, and do spiteful and outrageous things to hurt the LBH. On the other hand, I feel there are many WW's who don't set out to see how badly they can hurt their LBH. That's not their goal or focus. They don't have an affair just to hurt the LBH. (That's getting into another area or depth, which is more about vengeance.) Of course, there are some WW's that become focused on making their H's life miserable, but often, there are other factors in her personality or the sitch that's leading them. For the usual or common WW, it's all about her fantasy.

So, will she ever feel remorse for what she's done? I believe when reality slaps her in the face and the fantasy collapses, her eyes will open. I won't say that remorse hits every single WW, b/c they have to feel deep regret and sorrow for the pain they inflicted on their loved ones.......most of all, their LBH. Some WW's are just too hardened and too stubborn to be humbled.

I hope this post doesn't sound like a word salad.

[Drh2001]

Hi Sandi,

Thanks for that response. I really appreciated what you have to say and you added some more info that I had not considered before.

I agree with both of your statements and feel that WW harbors both viewpoints. She did want to let me know she was done and I think the idea of me moving on as quickly as she did lessens her guilt. I think she feels if people know drh2001 has moved on and started dating, he couldn't have loved his wife to begin with.

I haven't started looking elsewhere. I have three teen daughters who are virtual learning and I'm remote learning and spend my day putting out small fires and making sure they wake up on time and don't cut class. I think that because I haven't moved on as quickly as WW wanted me to, it probably frustrates the heck out of her.

Have I thought about moving on? Absolutely. Do I want to? I don't know. Still working on myself and doing 180s and about to do the LRT technique. I still harbor a fantasy about reconciliation.


My WW is not acting out of vengeance to hurt me, She wants to live her fantasy of having a better life without me and with someone who makes her feel good about herself, which right now OM is doing.

She know what she's doing is "considered" morally wrong - I use the word "considered" in terms of how others would consider her actions and behavior, because not long ago she would have considered her outrageous behavior morally wrong - so she paints a false narrative of taking the kids and leaving me a long time ago because it's more acceptable to her that people believe this false narrative rather than the awful truth that she had been living with me and the kids in the marital home for almost a year while being in an A with OM.

[markw]

Sandi,

I have a question that I don't believe has been asked here.

Shortly after BD, WW told me I should start dating and that she hopes I'll find happiness with someone else. This was definitely not what I wanted to do. I wanted to save the marriage,

Do WWs say this to make themselves feel better about what they are doing?

Yep thats what my WW said after a week apart - that i should be over her by now and i should be looking to date again?

last thing on my mind!

[sandi2]

Yep thats what my WW said after a week apart - that i should be over her by now and i should be looking to date again?

Her statement shows how irrationally she's thinking. She is operating from her emotions.

I think a mistake LBH'S make is in how they respond to the WW encouraging them to date. Most of what I've seen, is the H trying to tell her he's not interested in dating and prefers to save the M. Actually, this is not what he should say to his WW. This is not a clue for the LBH to defend his personal beliefs, or whatever. If he's smart, he won't let her know what he's thinking/feeling either way. That's part of the mystery that makes her wonder what he's really going to do. No matter if she encourages him to date, she will be jealous of any woman who might replace her. Ironic, I know, but that's part of the craziness.

The LBH should remain stoic whenever his WW talks about what he should or shouldn't do. Don't try to give all the moral/religious reasons for not dating before you're D. And guys, please don't tell her how you took the wedding vows seriously! I promise you, it has no positive effect on her. Too many LBH's try to pass along some kind of message, a truth dart, or DB point he read on the board. He is hoping something said will penetrate her thick head. If anything, it has a negative effect, b/c he sounds a little bit self-righteous and/or preachy. She may be acting crazy, but she's not stupid. She knows her H, and she knows these new things he's saying comes from a book or something. I can't tell you how much she resents those type comments. You gain no ground by saying these type things.

[SteveLW]

I have a question that I don't believe has been asked here.

Shortly after BD, WW told me I should start dating and that she hopes I'll find happiness with someone else. This was definitely not what I wanted to do. I wanted to save the marriage,

Do WWs say this to make themselves feel better about what they are doing?

For the WW to tell the LBH that he should date, is like giving a hurt kid some toy to distract him from his pain.

Some will tell the LBH to date, as a way of convincing him that she's really over the M and won't consider reconciliation, and she wants to move on. In other words, it's a way to get LBH off her back. Some WW's think if the LBH dates, it will take some of the pressure off her reputation as the bad guy that tore up the family. Yes, I suppose there are a few WW's who feel some degree of guilt and see the LBH dating as a way of releasing that guilt.

Here's the thing, I don't think most WW's feel the degree of guilt that you would assume she'd have. B/c you are thinking from a logical & moral point of reference, and people who lie, betray, deceive, cheat, and tear apart families should be eaten up with guilt. Right? Feeling guilt is pretty shallow while she's in the affair. She doesn't feel shame. It's not regret. It's not remorse. And if she feels any of these, it's to a low degree. Remember, her heart has hardened and she is not the girl she once was (in most cases). She feels justified, b/c it's time for "her happiness". How can you feel guilt and justification at the same time? Another thing to consider is the drug-like excitement she gets from the "forbidden" love affair. It's strong enough to smother her previous code of conduct, morals, religious teachings, family values, etc.

There are different levels or depths of waywardness........b/c every person is not exactly alike. Although the stories we read here sound somewhat similar and the behavior of the WW often sound as if they have read the same playbook...... the individual woman with her baggage of negativity; resentment and disrespect for her H; her background; family of origin; and her personality traits can influence the depths she will go when acting out in rebellion. If anger/rage is a big part of her rebellion, then she's going to be mean, and do spiteful and outrageous things to hurt the LBH. On the other hand, I feel there are many WW's who don't set out to see how badly they can hurt their LBH. That's not their goal or focus. They don't have an affair just to hurt the LBH. (That's getting into another area or depth, which is more about vengeance.) Of course, there are some WW's that become focused on making their H's life miserable, but often, there are other factors in her personality or the sitch that's leading them. For the usual or common WW, it's all about her fantasy.

So, will she ever feel remorse for what she's done? I believe when reality slaps her in the face and the fantasy collapses, her eyes will open. I won't say that remorse hits every single WW, b/c they have to feel deep regret and sorrow for the pain they inflicted on their loved ones.......most of all, their LBH. Some WW's are just too hardened and too stubborn to be humbled.

I hope this post doesn't sound like a word salad.

Excellent insight as always.

I also want to point out that some times the WW will suggest the LBH start dating as a way to take the "heat" off of them and what they are doing. I know my WW even made comments like "this would be so much easier if you had cheated on me". Their point is "if you are/were unfaithful, then it would justify what I am doing". In a way this is a bit of a trap set up by the WW. They can get you to do what they are doing then they can point at you and say "You are doing the same thing!" I've actually witnessed this, where a couple going through a D because the WW cheated and wants to leave for the AP, acts indignant when the LBH suddenly has a new suitor in the way of another woman. I've told the story of our close friends that went through something similar, and Larry (named changed) ended up befriending a divorced woman at his church. When Melissa heard about this she was livid, never mind that she already had wedding plans with her AP! When Larry collapsed and went into a diabetic coma (he was a T1 diabetic) Melissa went to the hospital and when she found this other woman in Larry's room she assaulted her!

[SteveLW]

Bump for a great thread, and one of the most wise vets on this site! I also wanted to take this opportunity to point out some very good advice, from sandi's own rules (She calls them 37 rules but she added a couple over time!)

38. Do not keep company with the opposite sex. Do not turn to old friends of the opposite sex to talk to about your problems or just to hang out with them. This is not getting a life! This is not acceptable for a MR in trouble and could lead to you getting involved in an EA. If you cannot have your spouse present while you are with the friend of the opposite sex…..then you do not need to be with that friend. That includes any type of regular calls, emails, TM’s, etc., with friends of the opposite sex without the spouse present. You may not understand the seriousness, but it would be like pouring gasoline on a fire.

[pinn]

Where is Sandi? Unusual for her to be quiet for so long.

[Ready2Change]

Where is Sandi? Unusual for her to be quiet for so long.

On here profile, it says last seen March 22. Hope all is OK Sandi. HUGS

[neffer]

Is there any news from Sandi?

Where are you girl?

[wayfarer]

I do know that she has been taking long breaks due to health reasons. She had mentioned a few months back sitting and typing at the computer for long stretches was uncomfortable for her. But this a pretty long stretch.

[Thornton]

We miss you, Sandi! Hope you are doing ok!