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Posted By: IronWill Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 12/18/20 10:43 PM
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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2910917#Post2910917
Posted By: IronWill Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 12/18/20 11:00 PM
Hi everyone.

Thank you to everyone who has helped me out and offered words of encouragement and support. Words can't properly express how grateful I am to have found this place at just the right moment.

I'm not going to spend much time going over what happened in my sit. I'm at a place where rehashing what happened over and over again only serves to confuse my path going forward, and I don't want to do that. I would recommend for others to glean what they can from the beginning of my sit - and you'll be able to see the progress and the setbacks that have happened along the way smile

Things have stabilized in my sit since late last year/early this year. I have been IHS for around 2 years, BD1 was around 2.5 years ago. I am in what could be considered the marathon phase - though i view it as "living my life". Standing is what I want to be doing, though I don't know if its standing or simply appreciating the calm and the quiet.

I am currently working on forgiving myself and WAW - internally. I do not want to be angry or resentful for the rest of my life. There are many wonderful things about life, and I am working on focusing on those and PMA.

So instead of rehashing everything again - if there are any newcomers or others out there who have questions - ill be happy to try and answer them to the best of my ability.

Take care everyone - stay strong smile
Posted By: LH19 Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 12/18/20 11:24 PM
I,

Iím glad youíre doing well. Your situation is certainly unique and I do not think Iíve seen any quite like yours.

What would it take from your w for reconciliation?

Does she ever talk about the future and what it looks like?
Posted By: DnJ Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 12/20/20 03:31 PM
Good Morning IW

You stated very well the next stage you are entering - the shift of focus from looking back to looking now and forward. If you notice itís a shift of your focus; not an absolute band on reflecting. A healthy shift, a needed shift, and an explanation for some of that feeling of being overwhelmed.

Letting go of our clinging to our past, takes time and a willingness to accomplish. You are walking the path. Well done!

This is making peace with our past events, not ignoring them. We focus upon the present and future, while accepting that which has brought us to this place and time.

It was wonderful to read your determined approach to not rehash. It is very encouraging and a good sign when one feels, thinks, and believes, that rehashing is just confusing their path. To me, that is when one is near the shoreline of the muck and bog theyíve been slogging their way through.

To be clear, it takes a certain amount of rehashing, reliving, and such, to find our peace and acceptance, to find our way to let go and continue to move forward. We all need to slog through the swamp for a while, as we all have things we need to learn. Your path is normal and healthy.

Originally Posted by IronWill
I am currently working on forgiving myself and WAW - internally. I do not want to be angry or resentful for the rest of my life. There are many wonderful things about life, and I am working on focusing on those and PMA.

Good!

That is an excellent heading and goal. This is very much for you. And you are worth all the effort is takes for you to find forgiveness - both for her and yourself. (((Hug)))

Unfortunately, as Iíve mused about often, society doesnít lean towards forgiveness. News, social media, commercials, politics, laws, everyday interactions all have a judgemental slant. Of course society requires laws and rules and the ability to judge and settle disputes. However, by and large, our default views from almost all angles feds our egos and our need to be right. Itís everywhere, from the games we play on our phone to the news broadcast we listen to on our way to work. We get used to it, and our ego get an appetite that can become voracious.

Sadly, we are taught and believe forgiveness to be rare and hard, or almost impossible to come be. Please listen and realize your views regarding forgiving - change this belief within yourself. Make forgiveness possible. See and imagine how it can happen for you. It is the first and needed step in its creation.

Forgiveness is completely within you to find. There is nothing required from W for you to forgive her. And like most of our path - we are that which is in our way. We block our progress and our finding of forgiveness. Our egos block it.

Originally Posted by IronWill
I do not want to be angry or resentful for the rest of my life.

Exactly.

Do you realize just how much people actually do (unwittingly) want to be angry and resentful? How much we are programmed to believe that way? How most people define their life by their ďstrongĒ feelings. Anger, vengeance, grudges and so on feel ďstrongĒ. They have a powerful force about them. However, that is a lie. Their strength requires constant reinforcement, after all those are feelings.

True strength - love, peace, joy, happiness, and yes forgiveness do not have that feeling of power. They are power. One does not just feel, one lives them. Those tenets become self-asserting and self-reinforcing. It is akin to faith. Live in the light.

Forgiveness is freeing. Itís so amazing once you see it, and find your way.

And in my humble opinion, you are doing very well.

D
Posted By: IronWill Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 12/21/20 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by unchien
IW ~ Sorry to hear you are having a rough go of it lately. You helped me through some hard times the past 18 months and that is something I will never forget.

You have also helped me very much, U. I am alright - I will be ok. The holidays since BD have been awkward and strange, and to feel my family pulling away at about the same time has been tough. It is ironic that the friends I have made in the community W and I relocated to all those years ago have still been more supportive than any of my family have since BD. It feels like living in an upside down world. But ill be ok

I'm glad my words were able to help you. Thanks you as well smile

Originally Posted by unchien
I sense that you are seeking a breakthrough in emotional awareness/intelligence. For me, a super analytical person who mostly boxed away his emotions in the past... letting go of the wheel has helped more than IC, meditation, or anything else in the past year. I kind of gave up and decided if my brain couldn't resolve these issues I've been aware of my whole adult life, then maybe my brain trying to resolve the issues is a big part of the issue.

That is an interesting way to look at it. It resonates very much. I've had to keep repeating that same mantra over and over again when the spinning starts. Letting go has been and continues to be a lesson to learn in both our lives it seems.

Quote
Not saying that is what is going on with you, I just wanted to share, bounce ideas off you. I don't come here very often anymore, partly because my situation progressed, but also partly because it was feeding into my tendency to overthink about things.


Yes you hit the nail on the head. But we are who we are. And we did not break our S, in spite of our shortcomings and anxiety.

You did what you thought was the best with the information you had at the time. So did I. It is impossible to predict what could have happened. Perhaps it was easier for me without kids, but is more challenging in IHS. Perhaps it was harder for you with kids, easier with physical separation. Who knows.

It is good to hear from you. I come back to post occasionally - when I feel strong enough. Sometimes it takes days or weeks now, that's how slowly things move. But it is good to have an outlet i think.

Take care U - stay strong, man smile
Posted By: may22 Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 12/21/20 11:58 PM
Hi IW,

Thinking about meditating, I am not a skilled meditator by any means-- it is about all I can do to try to quiet my brain for a few minutes-- but I did travel to India last year and participate in a 10 day yoga/meditation program where we tried a whole bunch of different meditation practices. There was one called Antar Mouna that is about letting suppressed feelings rise and be acknowledged and felt and released. It was quite intense but I wonder if it could be helpful for you.

The other one I was thinking of for you is one I experienced through the Compassion Institute, called loving kindness. If you're explicitly working on forgiveness for you and your W, that might be one that is also helpful for you. A guided loving kindness meditation should be relatively easy to find, probably easier than antar mouna (I know a number of the meditation apps have a loving kindness practice) but I did a quick google search on antar mouna and there look to be some guided practices online that you can download for a small fee.

I don't know if this is helpful at all and I don't mean to be pushy. Just an idea, if meditation is helping, that perhaps there could be more benefit by exploring various practices there.

Thinking of you as we move into the holidays.

xx M
Posted By: IronWill Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 12/22/20 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by Steve85

So yes deep thinking, which a lot of us are blessed with, does have both a positive and negative. I have found that deep thinking causes me to over-think things sometimes. I can remember when I used to play hockey. I played so much better when I just reacted, and didn't think. When I started overthinking things I would turn the puck over, or pass when I should have shot and shot when I should have passed. But when I stopped thinking and just reacted I would score multiple goals and setup my teammates for goals. DBing is a lot like that. Though I try to tell LBSs not to react, but to respond. Reaction tend to be intuitive. Push for pull. But stopping, considering, not overthinking, then responding based on what you know is the right course of action.


Hi Steve- thanks for stopping by.

I can relate to this very much. Thinking can get in the way and end up paralyzing you, this is very true.

Learning not to react in an emotional situation, while simultaneously not overthinking, is a habit that takes time to learn. When we are first LBS, we do not have the capacity to understand how this works. But the great part of "limbo" if you want to call it that, is that LBS have the time - all the time they want - to work on things like that.

It goes back to the "time is a gift" quote. I've found that simple quote one of the most profound on this site.

Originally Posted by LH19
I,

Iím glad youíre doing well. Your situation is certainly unique and I do not think Iíve seen any quite like yours.

What would it take from your w for reconciliation?

Does she ever talk about the future and what it looks like?


Hi LH - good to hear from you. I had written a response to you but it disappeared into the cloud somehow.

I'm not really allowing myself to think about recon much. I'm living day by day and not worrying about what will happen tomorrow. The pandemic has had a large part in that - everything became too confusing and intertwined so I just dropped it.

I felt much better when I did.

But to answer your question, it would be the basics. And it would involve both of us. Communication. Trust. Honesty. Friendship. Commitment.

Are those possible going forward? I don't know. I think I would like to try, but it would have to be new, and it would take 2 people. Right now its not there yet. Speculating on the future hasn't happened either. But things are much calmer, and given everything else that's going on in the world right now I am grateful for that

smile
Posted By: IronWill Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 12/23/20 02:15 PM
Originally Posted by DnJ
Good Morning IW

You stated very well the next stage you are entering - the shift of focus from looking back to looking now and forward. If you notice itís a shift of your focus; not an absolute band on reflecting. A healthy shift, a needed shift, and an explanation for some of that feeling of being overwhelmed.

Letting go of our clinging to our past, takes time and a willingness to accomplish. You are walking the path. Well done!

This is making peace with our past events, not ignoring them. We focus upon the present and future, while accepting that which has brought us to this place and time.

It was wonderful to read your determined approach to not rehash. It is very encouraging and a good sign when one feels, thinks, and believes, that rehashing is just confusing their path. To me, that is when one is near the shoreline of the muck and bog theyíve been slogging their way through.


Hi D -

This situation has been a long journey so far. I feel like I am making up a lot of it because nothing seems to fit with any of the cookie-cutter descriptors here. It is comforting to realize that I am not alone and that there are aothers out there who are choosing the same path.

From personal experience watching my parents split and them live in hate and anger for over 30 years follow their D, i can assure anyone reading this that living through those emotions and reinforcing them will only serve to make you miserable for the rest of your life. I have seen it first hand and it is quite saddening.

That is not to say that acceptance comes easy ,quickly or without doubts. I deal with my MR past events on a regular basis. It is a choice to change the thinking - to stop the spinning and let the thoughts pass without burrowing into them that will help build acceptance.

Still a work in progress. smile

Originally Posted by D

Unfortunately, as Iíve mused about often, society doesnít lean towards forgiveness. News, social media, commercials, politics, laws, everyday interactions all have a judgemental slant. Of course society requires laws and rules and the ability to judge and settle disputes. However, by and large, our default views from almost all angles feds our egos and our need to be right. Itís everywhere, from the games we play on our phone to the news broadcast we listen to on our way to work. We get used to it, and our ego get an appetite that can become voracious.

Sadly, we are taught and believe forgiveness to be rare and hard, or almost impossible to come be. Please listen and realize your views regarding forgiving - change this belief within yourself. Make forgiveness possible. See and imagine how it can happen for you. It is the first and needed step in its creation.

Forgiveness is completely within you to find. There is nothing required from W for you to forgive her. And like most of our path - we are that which is in our way. We block our progress and our finding of forgiveness. Our egos block it.


This is a very important read. New LBS - if you're reading, memorize this. It doesn't mean to be a pushover, or be lax on your boundaries. But it will give you peace of mind that you did the right thing.

Its not easy - but it is the right thing to do.

Originally Posted by D


Do you realize just how much people actually do (unwittingly) want to be angry and resentful? How much we are programmed to believe that way? How most people define their life by their ďstrongĒ feelings. Anger, vengeance, grudges and so on feel ďstrongĒ. They have a powerful force about them. However, that is a lie. Their strength requires constant reinforcement, after all those are feelings.


You know people family friends and everyone who knows my sit have been surprised that I have not gone down the anger route. They don't know why I am doing what I am doing when I could get back at W or some have even suggested to get revenge by being with someone else (how on earth that would help is mind boggling to me). That i "deserve" to be treated so much better.

To them I say none of us "deserve" anything in this life. people treat us the way we let them treat us. Behaving like someone else just to get back at them seems like the very definition of insanity.

There is another way. I choose that road. Yes others may ridicule or scoff but it just feels like the righth thing to do.

If W leaves, then who am I to stop her from leaving. That is someone's elses choice - that is their life to lead. Me being angry about it won't change it and definitely won't make W want to come back.

Compassion seems like the right way to go and I have a clear conscience because of it.

Originally Posted by D

Forgiveness is freeing. Itís so amazing once you see it, and find your way.

And in my humble opinion, you are doing very well.

D


Thanks D. I have good days and bad. Forgiveness is a process and I'm likely to be learning how to forgive for quite some time.

I appreciate your words. Take care smile
Posted By: DnJ Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 12/25/20 02:16 AM
Hello IW

Getting revenge by being with someone else. I totally agree with you - how would that be helpful in anyway?

Youíve seen the anger and hatred that can follow divorce. You know you do not want that. And you know something better is possible.

IronWill, I am proud of you and the path youíve chosen to follow. Compassion and a clear conscience.

Stand tall my friend. You are strong. Be the stanchion; in your life and in otherís.

Merry Christmas.

D
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 12/27/20 05:06 PM
IW, your strength, patience and perseverance is an inspiration! In a world that wants what it wants when it wants it, you're proof that not getting what you want immediately will not kill you! Thanks for staying around and Journaling and posting. I draw many similarities between our situations. Probably the biggest difference being that I was an awful husband, and that me turning my bad behavior around had the ability to impact my sitch quicker than most. I've not weighed in much on your threads because you've seemed to have a good handle on things all along!

Anyway, just wanted to let you know I admired you and to encourage you! Hope you had a very Merry Christmas and that you have a great New Year.
Posted By: cardinal Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 12/28/20 02:10 AM
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, IW! Indeed there are many wonderful things in lifeómay you (may we all) notice the beauty that surrounds us and find some joy and comfort in in. Your post had reminded me Iíve been wanting to check out Ross Gayís The Book of Delights. I am finding it delightful that someone gave it a one-star Amazon review with this note: ďToo small for our needs.Ē On some difficult days it sometimes feels like this to me: that the small things (a swarm of yellow butterflies, a cup of hot tea) are too small. But I have found that noticing one small good thing leads to another and another. See? Your posts on forgiveness and focusing on the present already have me feeling more hopeful.
Posted By: IronWill Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 02/15/21 09:30 PM
Hi D, may, cardinal, Steve and others.

It has been some time since I posted. I have been spending this time re-reading my previous threads all the way through.
And after doing so, for my own self-improvement, I have made the decision to remove them from the forum. It was not an easy decision, but I think it is crucial for my growth to do so. Continuing to live in the past will only inhibit the ability to forgive.

It is time to close that chapter and move forward. I've made my peace with the past - no sense reliving it smile

I'm not leaving the forum but it is time to shift my focus to what comes next. I want to thank all of you who have helped me and who continue to help me out. Words can't properly express what it has meant. Thank you all. I plan to keep posting occasionally here and on others' situations, and checking in from time to time. I also will keep sharing the many posts here that have helped me up to now - there are so many great posts here! smile

Take care and stay strong everyone smile
Posted By: Cadet Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 02/15/21 10:27 PM
Just for the record all your posts and threads are off the board in a safe location.

They could be recovered if needed in the future.

Only Job and I can see them now.
Posted By: IronWill Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 02/15/21 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by Cadet
Just for the record all your posts and threads are off the board in a safe location.

They could be recovered if needed in the future.

Only Job and I can see them now.


Thank you Cadet and Job - I appreciate it.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 02/15/21 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by IronWill
Hi D, may, cardinal, Steve and others.

It has been some time since I posted. I have been spending this time re-reading my previous threads all the way through.
And after doing so, for my own self-improvement, I have made the decision to remove them from the forum. It was not an easy decision, but I think it is crucial for my growth to do so. Continuing to live in the past will only inhibit the ability to forgive.

It is time to close that chapter and move forward. I've made my peace with the past - no sense reliving it smile

I'm not leaving the forum but it is time to shift my focus to what comes next. I want to thank all of you who have helped me and who continue to help me out. Words can't properly express what it has meant. Thank you all. I plan to keep posting occasionally here and on others' situations, and checking in from time to time. I also will keep sharing the many posts here that have helped me up to now - there are so many great posts here! smile

Take care and stay strong everyone smile

Is everything status quo IW?
Posted By: IronWill Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 02/15/21 11:54 PM
Originally Posted by LH19

Is everything status quo IW?


Hi LH good to hear from you. there have been no upheavals or changes. Part of me wants to say theres been small improvements, but it may be me trying to stay optimistic. A glance at my older posts seems to show a similar pattern. But things feel a lot calmer.

Maybe that's me changing too I don't know, I can't tell yet. I've been going through some rough personal and family history with IC recently. After some distance and reflection, issues with an MR that ended 2 yrs ago pale in comparison.
Posted By: unchien Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 02/16/21 03:35 PM
IW ~ Glad to hear your update, and glad to hear you are feeling calmer. Hope you keep checking in from time to time.
Posted By: may22 Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 02/16/21 09:29 PM
hi IW,

It is wonderful to hear from you. I'm glad you're feeling calm and working through so many different things. I really look to you in so many ways for strength and inspiration.

It is so interesting for me to read that you've made this choice, given some of the things I've been doing/thinking recently as well-- and I know this is something you've been working on for the last couple of months at least. I also have just read through all my threads, which on one hand showed me all the changes in my sitch, but also does have that side effect of rehashing the past. Just in the past week, I have felt an internal shift, a willingness to release the past, an acknowledgment of the current damage it does to spend all my time trying to remind myself of that pain.

Anyway, just to say that I really appreciate your continued posting. Are there thing you've done specifically (besides deleting your past threads) to help you along in this process? Also, I'd love to know about some of the things you're looking forward to as you shift your focus to what comes next.

Best,

May
Posted By: DnJ Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 02/21/21 02:44 PM
Good Morning IW

It is nice to hear from you. Iíve been wondering how things have been going with you.

It is good to see you are at peace, and are not removing your threads due to painful triggering, rather a letting go and moving forward into your unknown and awaiting future. I find that similar to blocking a spouse on social media and such; it barriers a certain temptation to look. In time that temptation diminishes and fades; itís a feeling after all, and those are fleeting when not reinforced.

A conscious, well thought out, decision towards self improvement is an excellent heading and new chapter of life. My friend, I believe you will find youíve been writing upon those pages for a while now, the decision is actually to stop flipping back and re-reading and reliving the previous chapter(s). Youíre well on your path, with noble and honourable headings.

You wisely mention reliving the past inhibits your ability to forgive. That is true. Hanging on to the past and the pain holds one hostage.

Letting go of the past, and the deeds of the past, allows for growth and one to find acceptance and forgiveness. And forgiving allows one to let go of the past. A rather circular path. One which reinforces its own noble intent.

Forgiveness, the intent: not holding a grudge, no need for personal retribution, no demand of compensation for emotional damages, it wipes clean the invoice against our transgressors that we carry within our heart, mind, and soul. Forgiveness, we willingly write ďpaid in fullĒ upon the bill; emotionally letting go of the past deeds against us. It is very freeing!

Forgiveness does not mean you condone or support their actions or deeds. It requires nothing from them for you to find your path and forgive. To be very clear, it is us that pays that invoice. Our invoice within. It requires nothing from our transgressor because there is no way for them to actually pay it - it is our emotional debt.

This is top shelf spiritual path stuff. Walk in the light and welcome peace, serenity, and contentment.

I look forward to your next writings in what is sure to be an excellent chapter in an already excellent book of life.

D
Posted By: IronWill Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 03/04/21 10:55 PM
U - I will check in occasionally. Ill never forget the help you and others here have given me through the challenges of the past few years . I hope you are well smile

may - it was time to let it go. I hung on to the pain of all those posts for 2 years. I reread some or all of my posts eyvery time I visited this site. Thats enough. I tell myself that I was hurt badly, but I made it through that time. Living in it is toxic. It is also what my own parents did for decades after D and I do not want that. Time to let it go.

The most noteworthy thing I am doing is dealing with my past and PTSD in IC. It is not easy. Its also why I don't come here much right now. Its a lot to process. I'm having a rough time atm because I'm dealing with things I buried since childhood. The rough time will pass, but you have to go through it to get through it.

Doing that, and also continuing to learn how to think less, speak less, listen more, and live for today. I'm glad you're finding positive movement for you and in your sit. Keep going smile

D - I have been meaning to post to your sit for some time but have found myself at a low ebb. I have little emotional strength currently, but that will pass. But what you speak of here is very accurate. I have no need to be angry or to get revenge. What happened, happened. Stewing over it or planning ways to get back at S serves no purpose except to generate negative energy interactions and feelings. That doesn't make life better for anyone.

Forgiveness is not a goal, it is a journey, much like life. There are detours, highs, lows, and everything in between. The important thing is to keep going, stay in the light, and like you quoted to me once - be better, not bitter

Take care friend smile
Posted By: DnJ Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 03/06/21 01:05 AM
Hello IW

ďBe better not bitter.Ē

Youíve no idea how happy it made me to see you bring that up.

I know youíre in a low spot right now. However, recalling and living that quote, you are in a great headspace my friend - you just donít feel it yet. Donít fret itís coming.

Iím very glad to see IC is having a positive affect with you. The rough time you know will pass, and yes the only way to the other side is to journey through it.

Stay strong my friend.

And it is good to hear from you. Really good.

D
Posted By: IronWill Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 06/23/21 05:05 PM
Hi everyone. It has been some time since I posted. I needed a break.

My situation continues to remain calm. Still home still IHS. Things are respectful. I don't feel much like talking about what happened. I'm tired of talking about it, here and IRL. Living in the past is an exhausting prospect and consumes too much energy for something that cannot be changed.

I am currently continuing to work on myself in IC and other personal projects I have always wanted to do. Dealing with my codependency issues and PTSD continues to be a work in progress. You don't get over these things overnight as i am slowly learning.

The future? Who knows. I'm not worried about it, it will be what it will be. I have a lot of things that i wanted to do when I was on my own before my MR and nothing is stopping me from doing them now.

Thank you again to all who helped me during my darkest days. I am very grateful for all the 2x4s and the help.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 06/23/21 05:17 PM
Hi IronWill,

What approach is your IC taking to help you past PTSD? In the past, I've dealt with trauma (childhood) through talking and journaling. That's reduced triggers from daily to monthly. I feel like I'm missing a magic bullet to deliver the coup de gras, but maybe like physical scars, some trauma never fully goes away.

I get not wanting to constantly rehash what negatives have happened to you.

I'm glad you're working on IC and personal projects!
Posted By: LH19 Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 06/23/21 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by IronWill
Hi everyone. It has been some time since I posted. I needed a break.

My situation continues to remain calm. Still home still IHS. Things are respectful. I don't feel much like talking about what happened. I'm tired of talking about it, here and IRL. Living in the past is an exhausting prospect and consumes too much energy for something that cannot be changed.

I am currently continuing to work on myself in IC and other personal projects I have always wanted to do. Dealing with my codependency issues and PTSD continues to be a work in progress. You don't get over these things overnight as i am slowly learning.

The future? Who knows. I'm not worried about it, it will be what it will be. I have a lot of things that i wanted to do when I was on my own before my MR and nothing is stopping me from doing them now.

Thank you again to all who helped me during my darkest days. I am very grateful for all the 2x4s and the help.

IW,

You are the model of endurance. Respect!

Your sitch has always been very unique to me. Hope she comes to her senses and realizes what a good man she has in you.

If not, I know you will be fine!
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 06/23/21 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by IronWill
Hi everyone. It has been some time since I posted. I needed a break.

My situation continues to remain calm. Still home still IHS. Things are respectful. I don't feel much like talking about what happened. I'm tired of talking about it, here and IRL. Living in the past is an exhausting prospect and consumes too much energy for something that cannot be changed.

I am currently continuing to work on myself in IC and other personal projects I have always wanted to do. Dealing with my codependency issues and PTSD continues to be a work in progress. You don't get over these things overnight as i am slowly learning.

The future? Who knows. I'm not worried about it, it will be what it will be. I have a lot of things that i wanted to do when I was on my own before my MR and nothing is stopping me from doing them now.

Thank you again to all who helped me during my darkest days. I am very grateful for all the 2x4s and the help.


Great update, IW! Keep on keeping on.
Posted By: IronWill Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 06/25/21 11:04 AM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Hi IronWill,

What approach is your IC taking to help you past PTSD? In the past, I've dealt with trauma (childhood) through talking and journaling. That's reduced triggers from daily to monthly. I feel like I'm missing a magic bullet to deliver the coup de gras, but maybe like physical scars, some trauma never fully goes away.

I get not wanting to constantly rehash what negatives have happened to you.

I'm glad you're working on IC and personal projects!


Hi CW -

Currently I'm doing the same as you - talking and journaling. Triggers are harder - I never know whats going to set it off. Since I have childhood and military bouts with PTSD is can get overwhelming quickly. I've noticed the military seems to be confined to horrific dreams and insomnia - waking up with a start and feeling like there's no oxygen in the room in full sweats. That's been recurring for decades. The childhood ptsd is in daily interactions and can creep up suddenly.

IMO I think there is no magic bullet. It is a part of who I am a part of my past and it made me who I am today. It is rough to deal with but it has made me a stronger person. I suspect it is the same for you. I think your trauma, like mine, will always be there in some small part and that it made you a tougher man.

There are however lots of coping mechanisms available which is what I am researching and doing atm. Might help you some too smile

IC has mentioned EMDR (i think That's what its called?) I will be doing that in person once this pandemic calms down. smile
Posted By: wayfarer Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 06/25/21 02:33 PM
I'm so happy to hear from you again IW. It sounds like you're doing fairly well. Which is always good to hear. I've heard great things about EMDR and PTSD/C-PTSD. I've also heard it great for doing trauma work. Fingers crossed that you'll get to start that soon. Out of curiosity have you and IC discussed PTSD and C-PTSD the differences and the like long term plan for treatment? I know the concept of C-PTSD is fairly new but is pretty important in dealing with the childhood trauma stuff.
Posted By: DnJ Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 07/04/21 02:12 PM
Good Morning IW

It is nice to hear from you.

I totally empathize and understand that draining feeling you speak of. The emotional realization of the immutability of the past is a tough lesson. Intellectual that is so easy; feelings are slower to accept it turns out. Ah, the difference between control and influence. (Beliefs are even slower to alter. A great thing as it turns out, this slow altering of beliefs and values. They make excellent headings for life.)

We are but a leaf on a stream.

At first we are thrown about in the suddenly violent rapids we find ourselves in. Bobbing up and down, fighting for air, desperately looking to see where we are and what is going on. We struggle and panic. Grab at anything to latch on to.

Eventually the streamís energy subsided a bit. The overwhelming waves are greatly reduced in both amplitude and frequency. We catch our breath and even discover where we are and piece together what happened.

Of course, we never realized we were a leaf and at that point still donít. We swim against the current. Pushing back against the relentless passing of time and events. Further realizations come from our efforts.

Firstly, our struggling and swimming against the current is not futile. That effort is needed to break through our own self imposed limitations.

Secondly, our limitations were that of control and what we believed we controlled and could control. We slowly learn that we control little - only our thoughts, actions, and reactions.

Thirdly, further shattering of our limiting of self come from realizing our influence. We can exert great influence. This is not direct control, rather subtle moulding, shaping, and evolving of present events, values, situation into that which we aspire towards or hope for. This is a key realization for we do greatly influence and when unchecked and unrealized that influence harms and hinders.

Fourth, our beliefs are altered, organized, and strengthened. Crafted are values we aspire to. Discarded are beliefs that do not serve us. And that which we hold most dear is strengthened. Lifeís headings these are. Noble and grand destinations to journey towards.

Fifth, the journey matters. How we walk our path matters more than the destination. In fact, itís always been about the journey not the destination. Those are headings, not an end. Lifeís a journey. Keep moving forward.

Sixth, we are leaf. Itís not that we give up our control and float wherever the current pushes us. No, we influence the stream itself. We influence that current to slowly alter our headings. Our water flows unstoppably. Fate, life, events and such do place barriers and rocks in the path of the water. Yet flow it will. We need not add to the debris.

Seventh, accepting the rocks of the past allows the leaf to float to smooth waters. A far gentler current awaits. Our values and beliefs, our spiritual path, influence our stream. Peace and contentment come from knowing and understanding and believing our control and our influences.

And finally, we are not but a leaf on a stream. For we are the stream itself. We have many different leaves floating. Different times and events. The leaf is our focus upon that time. Influence the leafís path and you will have a great life.

Each of us, our life, is clear clean water that flows. Live in the light and influence well.

D
Posted By: Drh2001 Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 07/05/21 02:54 AM
Originally Posted by IronWill
Hi everyone.

Thank you to everyone who has helped me out and offered words of encouragement and support. Words can't properly express how grateful I am to have found this place at just the right moment.

I'm not going to spend much time going over what happened in my sit. I'm at a place where rehashing what happened over and over again only serves to confuse my path going forward, and I don't want to do that. I would recommend for others to glean what they can from the beginning of my sit - and you'll be able to see the progress and the setbacks that have happened along the way smile

Things have stabilized in my sit since late last year/early this year. I have been IHS for around 2 years, BD1 was around 2.5 years ago. I am in what could be considered the marathon phase - though i view it as "living my life". Standing is what I want to be doing, though I don't know if its standing or simply appreciating the calm and the quiet.

I am currently working on forgiving myself and WAW - internally. I do not want to be angry or resentful for the rest of my life. There are many wonderful things about life, and I am working on focusing on those and PMA.

So instead of rehashing everything again - if there are any newcomers or others out there who have questions - ill be happy to try and answer them to the best of my ability.

Take care everyone - stay strong smile



Good for you Ironwill!

I'm not at the forgiveness stage. To me, if WW hasn't shown remorse, repentance, sorrow etc and is refusing to follow the terms of the divorce why should I forgive her?

Forgiveness comes from repentance. Those words, "I'm sorry" must be heartfelt and genuine because without that, forgiveness takes on a different meaning, "to let go", does not have the same ring and feel to it.

Letting go is a good thing, it helps you move on and free yourself from the past, but I don't see it as forgiveness,

Maybe I'm wrong here with my viewpoints, so feel free to comment.
Posted By: wayfarer Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 07/06/21 01:56 PM
Drh,

Forgiveness has zero to do with repentance. I've said this a bunch of times on other people's threads, but this notion that forgiveness is some grand magical gesture bestowed upon the transgressor by the transgressed is beyond a fallacy. No one is sitting upon a moral high ground throne handing out forgiveness. Forgiveness is a process. A process that can be done entirely without anyone asking for it or showing repentance. Forgiveness is a way to let go of the tether that binds you to people that have wronged you. Anger tethers you indefinitely to a person. As long as you hold on to the anger you will always be at the mercy of that person. You will always be at the mercy of the wrongs they've done. Forgiveness is accepting what has happened, no longer being wiling to be beholden to the pain, and moving forward. You forgive for you, for your spirit, your mind, your soul. No one else's. But you don't ever have to forget.

Remorse, is what you need to regain or maintain a relationship with someone in the same form as before. But if you have no interest in that iteration of your relationship then it isn't necessary. People forgive every single day without so much as an acknowledgement they they even did anything wrong. People forgive people of things that to some would be unforgiveable. The biggest hurdle here is understanding that forgiveness isn't one sweeping action absolving exW (or whomever) of all her sins. It actually offers no absolution. Just a path way for you to let go and move on fully.
Posted By: IronWill Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 07/08/21 02:58 PM
Drh -

I don't know the details of your situation and I'm not here to tell you what to do. Instead this is what I asked myself when it comes to forgiveness -

Which shows personal growth: forgiving or not forgiving?
Posted By: 97Hope Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 07/08/21 03:13 PM
Hello IW. I am trying to catch up here, but wanted to drop in and tell you from personal experience, EMDR changed my LIFE! I did it during the worst of my separation. I was suffering from previous trauma, and the S/D just made it so much more painful and almost impossible for me to get through.

You are in an amazing place, considering IHS.

When I got stuck, I always asked myself, Will I regret this choice? To stand, to stand down? To be kind when H doesn't "deserve" it?

I have not regretted being kind. Not once. Emotionally, sure, I have these grand daydreams of revenge, and a time or two I wanted H to suffer, but when I followed out those thoughts, I really didn't want to be that person. H is living in his own hell. Literally, his choices have landed him in a life he doesn't even like. He does not need my help, and focusing on his mistakes takes up energy that must be used to focus on my own growth and recovery.

I hope you are well, and I hope you are able to find joy in each day.
Posted By: Drh2001 Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 08/28/21 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by wayfarer
Drh,

Forgiveness has zero to do with repentance. I've said this a bunch of times on other people's threads, but this notion that forgiveness is some grand magical gesture bestowed upon the transgressor by the transgressed is beyond a fallacy. No one is sitting upon a moral high ground throne handing out forgiveness. Forgiveness is a process. A process that can be done entirely without anyone asking for it or showing repentance. Forgiveness is a way to let go of the tether that binds you to people that have wronged you. Anger tethers you indefinitely to a person. As long as you hold on to the anger you will always be at the mercy of that person. You will always be at the mercy of the wrongs they've done. Forgiveness is accepting what has happened, no longer being wiling to be beholden to the pain, and moving forward. You forgive for you, for your spirit, your mind, your soul. No one else's. But you don't ever have to forget.

Remorse, is what you need to regain or maintain a relationship with someone in the same form as before. But if you have no interest in that iteration of your relationship then it isn't necessary. People forgive every single day without so much as an acknowledgement they they even did anything wrong. People forgive people of things that to some would be unforgiveable. The biggest hurdle here is understanding that forgiveness isn't one sweeping action absolving exW (or whomever) of all her sins. It actually offers no absolution. Just a path way for you to let go and move on fully.


Hey Wayferer,

Thanks for your response and sorry for late reply.

I just got divorced over Zoom this week and had so much going on.

I can see that forgiveness is a process, though being raised a Christian I saw it as "payment in full" for another person's apology over their transgressions.

I have to think about this but I think you're explanation is the right way of going about this.
Posted By: Drh2001 Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 08/28/21 08:39 PM
Originally Posted by IronWill
Drh -

I don't know the details of your situation and I'm not here to tell you what to do. Instead this is what I asked myself when it comes to forgiveness -

Which shows personal growth: forgiving or not forgiving?


IronWill.

the correct answer is forgiving! So much harder to put into practice though.
Posted By: Drh2001 Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 08/28/21 08:44 PM
97Hope,

Just wanted to comment on your thoughts. I too get daydreams of revenge but I just got divorced this week and feel that WW has already lost so much. My eldest daughter doesn't like going round to OM's house where her mother lives. One day a week if that. I got almost 60% custody since they're with me during the school week and WW has them long weekends.

Despite WW moving in with OM, my kids say she is living paycheck to paycheck. She works f/t and doesn't make a bad wage for someone with only a high school diploma. It's none of my business but I wonder where all the money is going.

They moved into another house a couple of months ago and the continued rain has caused flooding in their basement and their backyard backs onto some woods and a ground hog ate all my WW's veggies she was growing.

I don't want to be mean spirited but it's hard not to imagine karma having some payback fun.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 08/30/21 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by Drh2001
Originally Posted by IronWill
Drh -

I don't know the details of your situation and I'm not here to tell you what to do. Instead this is what I asked myself when it comes to forgiveness -

Which shows personal growth: forgiving or not forgiving?


IronWill.

the correct answer is forgiving! So much harder to put into practice though.

Forgiveness is as much for you as the other person. Forgiving means letting go of the anger and resentment. Anger free and resentment free is a much better life to live!
Posted By: neffer Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 08/30/21 06:32 PM
Forgiveness is for the one who forgives.
Posted By: IronWill Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 09/01/21 11:03 AM
Originally Posted by Drh2001
Originally Posted by IronWill
Drh -

I don't know the details of your situation and I'm not here to tell you what to do. Instead this is what I asked myself when it comes to forgiveness -

Which shows personal growth: forgiving or not forgiving?


IronWill.

the correct answer is forgiving! So much harder to put into practice though.

It's only hard if you tell yourself it is hard.

It doesn't require anything on your part to forgive someone. You simply decide to do it and do it.

That doesn't mean you wipe the slate clean. It just means you're ready to move on from the past

smile.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 09/02/21 12:55 PM
Came across this in the Piecing board, a sticky on Michele' Golden Rules:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/a_forgiveness_gift_yourself.htm
Posted By: IronWill Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 09/22/21 03:19 PM
Hello all smile

Time passes quickly when you have things occupying it. Hard to believe it has been over 3 years since BD, i had almost forgotten about it.

LH and Steve good to hear from you! Life rolls on, one day at a time. smile

Wayfarer - thanks for your comments. I apologize for not replying sooner but I have found it difficult to return here. I don't know why maybe its reliving the past. I have not started EMDR yet but it is in my plans. At the moment going to IC is priority. I have a lot of stuff to process.

D - always good to hear from you. Your words mean so much and the forum is lucky to have you. I hope you are well. smile

My situation remains stable, no change. I could write about day to day nuances and things to nitpick over but the guy that used to do that is no longer me so I will not. I feel different - battle worn. It would take a lot to get riled up like that again.

For those of you who are new, here are a few things that helped me get where I am today.

Sandis 37 rules
Breathing/meditation
Giving space even when you are hurting
Learning you cannot control anything other than yourself
Mindfulness - stopping or altering unconstructive thoughts
Not responding when you are emotional
Finding other things to do
Not talking as much, getting quiet, listening more

Most importantly:

Listening to the vets
And reading every situation here. Wriiting helps yes, but read. Three times as much as you journal. Or more.

You will be okay smile

Be better, not bitter.

Take care

- IW
Posted By: BL42 Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 09/22/21 04:02 PM
IronWill,

Great update! It's incredible you're still in IHS after 3 years and still standing; I can't imagine. What an apt screenname. Thanks for coming back for an update w/advice for the newcomers, and best of luck to you.
Posted By: DnJ Re: Forgiveness - IronWill 7 - 09/26/21 01:12 PM
Good Morning IW

Originally Posted by IronWill
I feel different - battle worn. It would take a lot to get riled up like that again.

And battle-wise my friend. Beliefs, feelings, thought, and actions; you got your control and influence well sorted out.

Nice to see you so at peace.

Have a wonderful day.

D
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