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WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.)

Posted By: ScottB

WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/13/20 02:28 PM

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2909623&page=10

Old thread above.

Geez. My five day stretch, the first one, without the kids has been about all I can handle. After hanging out with a friend on Friday and another buddy on Thursday, yesterday I worked out with a friend and then opened my house up to a group of about a dozen guys beginning at 3:30p yesterday and the last guy left at 2am.

I believe we went through 98 beers, two or three rack of ribs, a couple dozen wings and we broke in my new ping pong table. I'm typing this and still in a bit of a fog.

One of my closest friends who lives two miles away asked when I put in my back patio - it was five years - but he hadn't been invited over yet. It really shows how my Ex made it challenging to have people over.

I was pleasantly surprised at who all came over and how chill it was. I haven't had a party at my house in at least 12 years. I need to make a couple of upgrades - like some solid outdoor furniture. I got a projector coming for my outdoor space which will be a massive upgrade. It was a wild time and definitely kept my head right and kept me out of trouble.
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/13/20 05:45 PM

Hi Scott,

Impressive GAL work on your part--as long as you didn't drink all 98 beers yourself! I envy your projector project. I have hosted movie parties, but I could only sneak in a dozen without a projector and proper outdoor furniture. I remember spending a weekend re-arranging my living room to make even a dozen possible.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/13/20 10:16 PM

Thanks CW. It comes tomorrow so we'll see how it does. If it works like I think it will I'll have a Football viewing party next weekend.

I get the kids back tomorrow and we're going skiing. They are pumped and I'm really excited to see them. I saw them and my Ex today and gave the kids hugs, she didn't say a word to me - which does bug me still.

Today was my fifth day without the kids and today was the first day I felt a little lost and lonely, so I feel like I did pretty good work to get this far.

I was able to go to a late lunch with family that helped a little, and then I worked out, but now I'm just ready for the day to be over and honestly I just wish things could go back to the way they were. I know they can't, but I'm tired and lonely and this is hard. I'll keep moving forward.

Because of the way the holidays fall I won't have a 5 day stretch without the kids until next year so that's good. Also, my parents, who are snowbirds, will back back from tomorrow through year end - so I have even more support right now; that will be great. Thanks everyone on the DB forum for all your support.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/14/20 12:16 PM

Scott, yes very commendable. My only caution is to try and watch the drinking for now. Lots of people have fallen for the drunken phone call to the STBX while drunk.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/14/20 02:37 PM

Steve - I appreciate that warning. I am one that would make a drunken call to other random women, so at least I have that going for me? All joking aside - that is the truth. I fought not to do it on Friday night.

In order to deal with that, I called that woman on Sunday at midday because I know myself well enough to know that at some point I was going to call her and I decided I was better off doing it with full faculties. She was someone that years ago seemed to have a thing for me. On that call I realized how out of her mind crazy she was and that I am better off staying away from that one. So I got that one out of my system. My next big challenge is to stay off the dating apps.

I'll try to keep busy but that is definitely a temptation.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/14/20 02:39 PM

I have regular plans every day / night until 12/27 or so, so I should be able to get through the next couple of weeks without doing anything stupid.

One day at time.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/14/20 02:42 PM

When you say doing something stupid. What do you mean?
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/14/20 02:42 PM

My STBX sent me a text that she needs to come over and get her nativity scene. I know she'll just walk in, look for it, and leave. She didn't say a word to me at church and so I don't expect her to say a word to me when she is in the house either. But it is a thing.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/14/20 03:18 PM

Why not find, set it on the porch, then text her "I set your nativity scene in a box on the porch, you can pick it up anytime".

Until you get to the point where you don't see these kinds of interactions as a chance to see how she "treats" you, you will continue to spin.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/14/20 06:15 PM

LH - By something stupid, I mean begin to get involved with other women on some basis.

Steve85 - I was able to find it and I did sit it out. And yes, I still see these interactions as a chance to see how she treats me and it does make me continue to spin.

And they closed down skiing tonight. That stinks. Doesn't reopen till the weekend. It got too warm yesterday. That is a bummer, I was looking forward to doing that with the kids.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/14/20 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Steve85
Find, set it on the porch, then text her "I set your nativity scene in a box on the porch, you can pick it up anytime".
This is perfect.

Anything else you want to get rid of? Put it out there at the same time...just kidding! Well maybe not. LOL
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/14/20 08:03 PM

Quote
R2C - You inspired me to reach out to a buddy of mine that rides off road in motorcycles. I think soon Iíll head out to his farm and ride. Iíve never done that before. Weíll see where that goes.
You will have a blast.
Posted By: OnlyBent

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/15/20 10:14 AM

I sold my Triumph about 18 months ago, was a sad moment. I am in the market again. Scotty, nothing better than being in the open air on a motorbike.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/15/20 03:21 PM

Context: Prior to the separation, we had talked about having Christmas at my house. We had not talked about it at all, and then this email exchange occurred over the last week. We had told the kids at the separation that we would celebrate Christmas together.

First Email from STBX:

We need to talk about Christmas at some point. I didn't book a flight cuz of the COVID exposure and I really don't think it's the best decision right now. I don't want them to have to quarantine again and they are still advising not getting together with extended family. I plan to ask the kids about it this weekend. If we don't go, I would like to use my week with the kids at some point to go visit my parents when COVID is under control whether that is spring break or this summer.
With that being said, the plan was to try and spend Christmas eve and Christmas Day together, the four of us correct? We need to discuss what that looks like.
Gifts - I have bought some stuff and was thinking we were giving gifts together this year so I will create a spreadsheet of what I have bought and we can discuss. Are you planning on getting gifts just from you? I think we should be consistent on this.

My response:
You are correct on Christmas eve and day. The office is empty and if you would like to bring over your blow up mattress, we could do that or you can sleep in daughters bunk or son's bed. Iíll plan meals.

If you create a spreadsheet of gifts and who they are from I can wrap on 12/23. I believe the Santa paper is at my house. I canít remember who gets which color. I am not planning on giving gifts just from me, I am planning on them being from us. What were you thinking in terms of the flow for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day?

STBXW Response back:
I talked to the kids about going to my parents. Son didn't give me much and said he didn't care if we went or not. Daughter, without me giving my opinion, said she didn't think we should go because she doesn't want to expose Grampy and she doesn't want to quarantine again. This is obviously a very difficult decision for me. If it wasn't for COVID, we would be going. You didn't respond if I could move my week with my parents to spring break or this summer. If I don't use my week at Xmas, do I lose it? Also, the kids mentioned you are planning some snowboarding trips. I guess I am confused because I thought we were taking COVID pretty seriously and maybe we need to talk about what that looks like. If you are going to be traveling with the kids it makes it hard for me to do the "right" thing by not traveling to my parents for Xmas.

As for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day...why is it assumed it is at your house? Are you thinking Christmas eve Mass, dinner, Christmas morning open presents and breakfast? Then what? I looked up Mass times Christmas Eve: 3 pm and 5:30 pm.

I would like to be able to wrap the presents. Can I come over when you aren't there and just wrap them in the basement? Or can you put them in the garage and I will come get them and bring them back here to wrap? Yes, the Santa paper is there.

Thoughts on my response? I did want to try and give the kids a "normal" as possible Christmas with the whole family. And again, initially she said we would do this at my house - if I go back to her with anything that looks like me making the decision or influencing the decision she will chalk it up to me "gaslighting" and manipulating her again.
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/15/20 03:46 PM

Scott,

Leave the gifts in the basement. Don't over analyze this situation. She's working hard not to be around you. So allow her not to be around as much as possible.

Originally Posted by ScottB

I did want to try and give the kids a "normal" as possible Christmas with the whole family. And again, initially she said we would do this at my house.


Key word above is what, "I" wanted. You wanted but she don't. You have to accept that. Stop worrying about how she will chalk it up. Do what's best for you and your kids. I don't hurt anyone to allow her to wrap the gifts at her house. It's a chance for her to start feeling what X-mas is like without your around.

And does she have a point on your bringing the kids snowboarding? Are you ok with you taking them snowboarding and her not taking them to her parents?

My response back would be.

"X-mas should and will be as stress free as possible for the kids. I thought we determined it would be over here, but if you feel different please let me know. If we decided to have it here, what you presented for X-mas eve and X-mas is perfectly fine. Christmas eve Mass, dinner, Christmas morning open presents and breakfast. INSERT the after that part.......

I will leave the presents in the Garage for you with the wrapping paper, or if, it's better for you, you can use the basement."
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/15/20 03:59 PM

Scott, I know this was the agreement, but I don't like it. She seems to be very reluctant about all of this, and she also seems to want to dictate the terms. However, since you did agree to a joint Christmas it would also be bad for you to go back on your word. You are between a rock and a hard place, and this is why agreements like this can come back to haunt you. In the run up to the discussion with the kids, when the idea of Christmas came up you should have punted. "That is a long way off, and a lot can happen between now and then. Let's discuss closer to Christmas." This would have allowed you the wiggle room, to when she started to get difficult, to just pull the plug and say "I think we should do Christmas separate."

Likely you jumped at the idea of joint Christmas as much for your own sake (if you are being completely honest) as you did for the kids sake. I am not questioning your motives, I am simply stating that her being agreeable to one last Christmas together was probably something you deep down wanted (we've all been there), even though it probably was not the best choice to make.

Now you are locked into the "why is it assumed it is at your house?" negotiation. Likely she is pushing this to try to get out of the "sleeping under the same roof" idea you floated. If she can get it at her place, likely you will wait until the kids are in bed, help setup gifts, then go home to sleep to arrive early the next morning. I mean, personally I wouldn't want to sleep at my W's new bachelorette pad.

This is your chance to be assertive.

"I think the kids would enjoy Christmas more in the home they already are familiar with and most comfortable in. Also, it makes the logistics much easier as far as sleeping arrangements. I feel this is the best decision."

"As far as which mass, here is my opinion. 3pm will make it easier to then get dinner, and get the kids down for the night. We can then setup the gifts and settle in for the night."

"If you would prefer wrapping the gifts there I am okay with that. We can work on the logistics later. I will put the gifts and the paper in the garage as you have suggested."

You are still too worried about what she thinks. "she will chalk it up to me "gaslighting" and manipulating her again." WHO GIVES A CRAP WHAT SHE CHALKS IT UP TOO??? Stop focusing on her, her feelings. She is not your responsibility anymore, remember? She fired you as her H! Stop trying to act like you still have that job.
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/15/20 04:30 PM

Hi Scott,

I would not enter into a discussion about whether you should go snowboarding--you do what you think is best during your custody period." Of course, consider if it's safe and legal to go, and use the tools available to you to keep your kids as safe as possible (e.g., social distancing, masks, testing).

If I understand correctly, she negotiated a specific week of custody, and now she wants to change it. Note her wording, skipping the trip would "lose her time". If this was a fair deal where she got X time and you got Y time, I'd probably work with her, "Yes, we only agreed to this date. What alternate date(s) did you have in mind?" If this was an unfair deal where you gifted her time, I wouldn't be so generous. "Yes, we only agreed to this date. I am open to an exchange of weeks in the future when the timing works for both of us."

Spending Christmas together sounds awkward. Not too late to abort? If you go ahead, treat it like any negotiation. Say what you want. Listen to what she wants. Find middle ground or take turns getting your way.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/15/20 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB

First Email from STBX:

We need to talk about Christmas at some point. I didn't book a flight cuz of the COVID exposure and I really don't think it's the best decision right now. I don't want them to have to quarantine again and they are still advising not getting together with extended family. I plan to ask the kids about it this weekend. If we don't go, I would like to use my week with the kids at some point to go visit my parents when COVID is under control whether that is spring break or this summer.
With that being said, the plan was to try and spend Christmas eve and Christmas Day together, the four of us correct? We need to discuss what that looks like.
Gifts - I have bought some stuff and was thinking we were giving gifts together this year so I will create a spreadsheet of what I have bought and we can discuss. Are you planning on getting gifts just from you? I think we should be consistent on this.


I know you already responded. This is how I would have responded:

H:"I believe it is important for our kids to see your parents, so yes I have no problem with them going at a later date. I have bought some gifts as well. If you really think we should do this together, I am fine with the gifts being from both of us this year. How long do you think we should plan being together?"



Quote
STBXW Response back:
I talked to the kids about going to my parents. Son didn't give me much and said he didn't care if we went or not. Daughter, without me giving my opinion, said she didn't think we should go because she doesn't want to expose Grampy and she doesn't want to quarantine again. This is obviously a very difficult decision for me. If it wasn't for COVID, we would be going. You didn't respond if I could move my week with my parents to spring break or this summer. If I don't use my week at Xmas, do I lose it? Also, the kids mentioned you are planning some snowboarding trips. I guess I am confused because I thought we were taking COVID pretty seriously and maybe we need to talk about what that looks like. If you are going to be traveling with the kids it makes it hard for me to do the "right" thing by not traveling to my parents for Xmas.

As for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day...why is it assumed it is at your house? Are you thinking Christmas eve Mass, dinner, Christmas morning open presents and breakfast? Then what? I looked up Mass times Christmas Eve: 3 pm and 5:30 pm.

I would like to be able to wrap the presents. Can I come over when you aren't there and just wrap them in the basement? Or can you put them in the garage and I will come get them and bring them back here to wrap? Yes, the Santa paper is there.


H:"I believe it is important for our kids to see your parents, so yes I have no problem with them going at a later date. I will put the requested items in the garage when I get home. Lets attend the 5:30PM mass. Would you prefer to stay here or come over early in the morning?"


See how I answer the most important question first and the way I stated it. I am assuming the kids are sleeping at your house. If that is wrong, there may be a better way to address where the event is happening.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/15/20 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by ScottB

First Email from STBX:

We need to talk about Christmas at some point. I didn't book a flight cuz of the COVID exposure and I really don't think it's the best decision right now. I don't want them to have to quarantine again and they are still advising not getting together with extended family. I plan to ask the kids about it this weekend. If we don't go, I would like to use my week with the kids at some point to go visit my parents when COVID is under control whether that is spring break or this summer.
With that being said, the plan was to try and spend Christmas eve and Christmas Day together, the four of us correct? We need to discuss what that looks like.
Gifts - I have bought some stuff and was thinking we were giving gifts together this year so I will create a spreadsheet of what I have bought and we can discuss. Are you planning on getting gifts just from you? I think we should be consistent on this.


I know you already responded. This is how I would have responded:

H:"I believe it is important for our kids to see your parents, so yes I have no problem with them going at a later date. I have bought some gifts as well. If you really think we should do this together, I am fine with the gifts being from both of us this year. How long do you think we should plan being together?"



Quote
STBXW Response back:
I talked to the kids about going to my parents. Son didn't give me much and said he didn't care if we went or not. Daughter, without me giving my opinion, said she didn't think we should go because she doesn't want to expose Grampy and she doesn't want to quarantine again. This is obviously a very difficult decision for me. If it wasn't for COVID, we would be going. You didn't respond if I could move my week with my parents to spring break or this summer. If I don't use my week at Xmas, do I lose it? Also, the kids mentioned you are planning some snowboarding trips. I guess I am confused because I thought we were taking COVID pretty seriously and maybe we need to talk about what that looks like. If you are going to be traveling with the kids it makes it hard for me to do the "right" thing by not traveling to my parents for Xmas.

As for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day...why is it assumed it is at your house? Are you thinking Christmas eve Mass, dinner, Christmas morning open presents and breakfast? Then what? I looked up Mass times Christmas Eve: 3 pm and 5:30 pm.

I would like to be able to wrap the presents. Can I come over when you aren't there and just wrap them in the basement? Or can you put them in the garage and I will come get them and bring them back here to wrap? Yes, the Santa paper is there.


H:"I believe it is important for our kids to see your parents, so yes I have no problem with them going at a later date. I will put the requested items in the garage when I get home. Lets attend the 5:30PM mass. Would you prefer to stay here or come over early in the morning?"


See how I answer the most important question first and the way I stated it. I am assuming the kids are sleeping at your house. If that is wrong, there may be a better way to address where the event is happening.



This is good. The only correction is that maybe the last part is a little passive-aggressive. Since she already called out assuming they are staying at Scott's place, I think he need to deal with that head on. Give the reasons you think it is better, let her try to counter, but ignoring it and continuing to "assume" that is settled might not go over well. And it isn't that you care that it upsets her, it is just that you are trying to broker a compromise here, defuse things, just so it is easier for you Scott! Her emotions are hers and you have no control over them.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/15/20 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Steve85
This is good. The only correction is that maybe the last part is a little passive-aggressive. Since she already called out assuming they are staying at Scott's place, I think he need to deal with that head on. Give the reasons you think it is better, let her try to counter, but ignoring it and continuing to "assume" that is settled might not go over well. And it isn't that you care that it upsets her, it is just that you are trying to broker a compromise here, defuse things, just so it is easier for you Scott! Her emotions are hers and you have no control over them.


Doing this for 10 years, I learned one topic per email thread worked best. Most of the time I would initiate them, otherwise mother would bring up 12 topics to discuss. In this case, she started multiple topics in one thread. kill off the important ones and/or the easier ones first.

This leaves the logistics of the two of you spending time together which is the most contentious part of this.



Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/15/20 07:45 PM

My X and I alternate everything every other year except Xmas eve and Xmas day. She always had the kids xmas eve. They did the mass and dinner and opened gifts that evening. Santa showed up while they were at mass. She would drop the kids off at my house at 9AM. Santa left gifts at my house as well. We would open gifts in the morning and have dinner 2pm ish.

I guess my point is some things do not have to alternate. Some things can be done without being together. Figure out what works best for the two of you and your kids.


Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/15/20 08:18 PM

Thanks folks. I'll work on that email. You've given me some good ideas.

I'm thinking of going with this.

"I believe it is important for our kids to see your parents, so yes, I have no problem with them going at a later date.

If you would prefer wrapping the gifts I am fine with that. I will put the presents in the garage for you to grab tomorrow once the kids have been dropped off at school.

What you presented for Christmas and Christmas Eve is perfectly fine. Letís attend the 3pm mass. That will make it easier to get dinner on at a decent hour.

I thought we determined Christmas would be over here back when we discussed separating. If you feel different let me know your thoughts on what you would propose."
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/15/20 08:48 PM

Scott,

Looks good!
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/15/20 09:43 PM

Agree with Joe.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 02:01 AM

Thanks folks.

So the appraiser came through our home today and my wife came over to make sure there wasnít any funny business (Iím keeping the house and have to by her out so she wants the price high as possible).

We walked through noting all the improvements and when we were done I mentioned some structural concerns that she had pointed out for years. When I brought that up she shot me a gaze that said she wanted me dead. I simply donít understand her anger. I havenít done anything, this is all her. It doesnít make sense at all, itís ridiculous.

Itís confusing. Iíve given her every thing over the years. She stayed at home and could do anything she wanted, I donít understand where this anger comes from.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 02:23 AM

Tonight I brushed My daughters cheek in bed and it was wet. It was dark so I asked her if she was crying and she said yes. I asked why and she said she didnít know.

Do I bring this up to my STBXW? Iím not sure whether or not she recognizes the impact this is having on the kids. It feels like itís worth a conversation; it could also just be me looking to guilt trip her. Thoughts?
Posted By: OnlyBent

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 02:47 AM

I wouldnít Scotty, itís a guilt trip. She will just get more mad at you, what do you hope to achieve by telling her?
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 02:49 AM

Agree with OnlyBent.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 03:07 AM

First, who cares about her anger. Until you stop being her mood ring you'll continue to spin. The fact that she shot you the look is proof she knows she still wields power over her.

As far as your daughter, telling your STBXW will do no good. She knew she'd be hurting you and devastating her kids by doing what she did. She came to grips with that a longtime ago. If you mention it to her indifference to it will simply cause you more anxiety. If she believes you at all. She obviously doesn't even trust you when it comes to the house appraisal. She had to "come to make sure there wasnít any funny business"?!?

Scott you seriously need to study the Last Resort Technique and go full bore with it.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 03:45 AM

Steve - Iíve read it a good bit, but Iíll reread it. I just canít understand doing this to your own kids. I just canít understand. I canít get myself into a mindset where I would inflict this much emotional confusion and pain on my kids. I just canít understand.
Posted By: OnlyBent

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by ScottB
Steve - Iíve read it a good bit, but Iíll reread it. I just canít understand doing this to your own kids. I just canít understand. I canít get myself into a mindset where I would inflict this much emotional confusion and pain on my kids. I just canít understand.


Scotty, what if I told you that you will never understand it? Would you choose to get stuck on that forever, or would you choose to accept that you will never understand and move on accordingly?
Posted By: Vapo

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by ScottB

Itís confusing. Iíve given her every thing over the years. She stayed at home and could do anything she wanted, I donít understand where this anger comes from.


I would be very careful treading this ground. In your view she was very lucky to be staying at home, but in her view she might have felt trapped and caged. Do not assume stuff, assumption is the mother of all fcukups.

Originally Posted by ScottB

Steve - Iíve read it a good bit, but Iíll reread it. I just canít understand doing this to your own kids. I just canít understand. I canít get myself into a mindset where I would inflict this much emotional confusion and pain on my kids. I just canít understand.


In her view she probably sees that she broke the shakles and started to breathe. She very probably feels that it time for her happines and that she sacrified herself for the happiness of the family. You can't say that she is wrong, because IMO she genuinely feels that.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 11:06 AM

Vapo nailed it.

Women tend to feel unheard and under appreciated and for the most part I think they are right. The thing that they donít understand is that was not our intention. I think all men want to make their women happy they just donít know how and eventually stop trying.

Scotty B you are still in the mindset that a big house, the ability to stay home and awesome vacations should make a woman happy. Maybe for some is does but the majority of women want to feel connected to their husband. Keeping and maintaining a connection after 20 years is not easy and their is no prior training so unfortunately families being broken up are the consequences of tough lessons.

WWs are very good at convincing themselves that this is best for everyone including the kids and are numb to the fact that this is effecting them. Even if they do acknowledge its happening itís all your fault anyway because you forced her to do it.

You canít win right now Scotty. Itís going to takes years for her to burn through the resentment before she can start to see you as a person again.

Iím sorry your daughter is struggling but I promise you it will get better.
Posted By: Ginger1

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 12:05 PM

Staying home and raising children is really staying home and hanging out all day and having the ultimate freedom. Thatís what you might see it as. While you grew your career and spent time with adults and work was over when you came home, she was raising your kids, keeping a house probably didnít have a whole lot of professional adult
Engagement. Or adult engagement at all. You didnít ďgive her everything ď she took care of your house, your kids, and you, so you could have the freedom to become successful and have the money to provide. She wants to values as a woman and a woman and as a mother and for all of their accomplishments as well. The big vacations and the house? Well, you didnít give that to her. Iím sure she would like to feel a partner in obtaining that and making that happen because you never had to worry about child care or cooking and cleaning and shopping .

Itís takes 2 to make that life happen. Did you make her feel otherwise?
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB
Steve - Iíve read it a good bit, but Iíll reread it. I just canít understand doing this to your own kids. I just canít understand. I canít get myself into a mindset where I would inflict this much emotional confusion and pain on my kids. I just canít understand.


WASs and WSs in particular are the most selfish creatures on the planet. Most WASs brush the impact on the kids off as "kids are resilient!". It isn't that they don't care, it is that they have come to grips that in order for them to be happy, others will have to be unhappy. This is the same dynamic that causes WASs to wait so long before finally dropping the D bomb. They are coming to grips with the idea that in order for them to end their unhappiness and pursue what they think will make them happy, they have to absolutely crush and destroy you.

Scott, not sure if in your reading of the information the board you came across the fact that for your WAW, this has been brewing for a very longtime. Most LBSs think, at least they behave, as if the sitch just began on BD. But the truth is that your WAW was struggling with these feelings for a long time before BD. Some experts estimate that the seeds of this thinking actually start up to 2 years BEFORE BD. So she has already worked out in her head the way she thinks all this will go. By time BD occurs the WAS has decided that it is time to RIP the bandaid off and let the healing for everyone start.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 02:18 PM

Scott, got to chime in here and agree with the others. My W was a SAHM and it was her choice. I, being a very traditional guy, did everything I could to make that a reality. She made, at the time, almost as much as I did, so our income was cut by about 48%. I sold my brand new super duty pickup and drove an 11 year old Ford Taurus. We got rid of cellphones, went down to basic cable, refi'd the house back to 30 years (we were down to 10!). I moved mountains so she could stay home.

She was elated. But then with 2 years she had her first EA. She was miserable. She felt trapped. She even would say things like "you get to go off to work!" Within 2 years her attitude had completely flipped from "if I don't get to stay home and raise my child I will die!" to "if I don't get out of this house I am going to kill someone!" And even though she would still tell people that she was very grateful to be able to stay home and raise the our D, inside she was going crazy.

I was much like you Scott. "She gets to stay home, sleep in, enjoy life! I am out slaving away bringing home the bacon!" Then I saw a episode of the bald, Texas TV psychologist where he took a husband like myself, and drew up what childcare, meal prep, house-cleaning and the like would cost me if I were to pay someone to do it, and it was eye-opening! Remember, as Ginger says, while I got up at 6:30am, was at work around 7:30, put in 9-10 hours depending on the day, and came came home around 6pm, her job never ended. Admittedly, I helped out, and I took care of the snow removal in the winter, the yard work in the summer, etc. It was the ability to have a work and home life balance that she didn't have.

So while it looked to me like she was living her dream, for her at had turned quickly into a bit of a nightmare.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 03:36 PM

I sent the email that I posted here this morning. We'll see how or if she responds.

I am concerned about my kids and the lack of communication with my wife in regards to them, but I guess its best for me to keep this to myself for now.

And you are all correct, I'll never understand it. I wish I could stop trying to.

Ginger1, Vapo, and LH - Yes, I made her feel like her contribution was not important. It was a pattern - she would get upset at me for not making enough money or not helping out enough around the house or for working too late and I would get upset with her. She would complain that she had to do it all and I would get upset because that is what she signed up for.

I have never given her credit for my ability to be successful because the entire time I was working she was ripping me apart. Saying I didn't get home earlier enough for dinner, that I didn't do enough around the house, that I didn't make enough money. It made it very hard to be appreciative of the things she did. I am guilty of all of this.

And once both kids got in school it got worse. She would say how hard her life was but from my view she had nothing she really had to do. then she went back to work and we carved up all the household duties evenly and she complained about work constantly. At that point I did not have the skills to listen and validate. Then she quit that job and didn't look for another one, she just made excuses for not looking.

She did not feel valued because I didn't value her, I resented her. I didn't and haven't felt like she was doing her fair share around the house. She would say she was going to take care of something -- for example she had three goals for the summer, getting a dead tree taken down, getting our carpets cleaned, and getting our chairs reupholstered. She did none of it. She said she was going to get a job, but she never looked for one. I have been frustrated, but with the constant threat of divorce and/or separation hanging over my head for years I never raised these issues up.

My coach said in November that I was over functioning and that led her to under function; I'm still guilty of this.

And Steve, the situation you described with your wife was very similar to mine. I think she has been planning her escape for over 5 or 6 years going back to before her EA.

From here I need to not make it any worse and get space. Continue to work on myself. And handle the emotions of this for me and my kids. I need to develop a working relationship that allows us to co-parent effectively, but before I can do too much work on that I need to heal emotionally and detach.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 03:48 PM

For a relationship to be successful both people need to be willing to blow it up on occasion, argue it out and be prepared to walk if a compromise can't be reached. That takes a lot of strength and self-confidence. For more often people stuff it down and pave over it and eventually you're sitting on a volcano that's ready to blow.

Point is, regardless both of you weren't happy. Usually its just a matter of timing in terms of who pulls the rip cord first.

That's why it's now important to separate the desire for the person, from the desire for resumption of control, stability, and positive validation. Your brain is telling you that getting W back will restore these things, but it won't.

So ask yourself Scotty B, what do you want and why do you want it?
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 03:56 PM

LH is a big proponent (if I am remembering right) of IC for children dealing with Ding parents. That is something within your control to make happen. Controlling your STBXW is not.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Steve85
LH is a big proponent (if I am remembering right) of IC for children dealing with Ding parents.

If needed. Mine are not nor have ever been.

Scotty your kids cannot have the life back that they have had -- they can't. Your W's actions have removed that as a possibility. Seeing you stand up for yourself and continuing to love and support them is a great example to set.

Sometimes things don't work out the way you wanted but you can still have a wonderful life, despite the change. I'm sure your kids won't suffer for learning that lesson.

How are my kids doing now? Honestly they are doing GREAT! Do they like going back and forth between houses? No. Do they like that their family traditions, like vacations together and restaurant meals as a family have been disrupted? No. But they do feel loved by both of us, they know that we are there for them, they have each other, and that is more than enough. Believe me it is.

Teared up writing the last paragraph.

Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/16/20 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB
Tonight I brushed My daughters cheek in bed and it was wet. It was dark so I asked her if she was crying and she said yes. I asked why and she said she didnít know.
I learned it is better to reflect the feeling back in words...IE "Are you sad?" or "It is OK to be sad"..."Would you like a hug?" The why doesn't matter...letting her know that you understand how she is FEELING is the important part. Emotional bonding. I have held my children countless times and let them cry. Of course, letting them express there anger was also my job. Being a safe place to release all their emotions was my job.

Quote
Do I bring this up to my STBXW? Iím not sure whether or not she recognizes the impact this is having on the kids. It feels like itís worth a conversation; it could also just be me looking to guilt trip her. Thoughts?

Nope. No talking needed. Keep validating your kids feelings. Emotional release is extremely important. Guide your children in this.

Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 01:11 AM

I was reading one of Michelle's old posts:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=75744#Post75744

I thought number 7 was interesting. Thoughts on recommending this as an idea to help us co-parent and improve communication for the kids?

7)SEEK COUNSELING FOR FAMILIES GOING THROUGH DIVORCE!
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 01:32 AM

Hi Scott,

I'd be curious what co-parenting issues are arising where you feel therapy would be helpful?

I had so few interactions with my ex-wife the first few years of marriage I couldn't see how this would have helped. Maybe if we were butting heads over school/medical choices, couldn't stand being in the same room, or our kids had special needs. If you are having such issues, sounds wise! I have consulted therapists on how to best help my kids through issues, and leveraged CPS to ensure appropriate care.
Posted By: Mumin

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 08:32 AM

I would have to say I agree with MWD but only before separation and (most important) ONLY if both parents agree to the divorce itself and the "scope" of the counseling (kids only).
Otherwise I think the risk of making things WORSE is too high.

So in your situation (and my own) I would say no.
If you have questions this board is a great resource for co-parenting.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB
I was reading one of Michelle's old posts:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=75744#Post75744

I thought number 7 was interesting. Thoughts on recommending this as an idea to help us co-parent and improve communication for the kids?

7)SEEK COUNSELING FOR FAMILIES GOING THROUGH DIVORCE!

Scotty B,

Truth time. Is this a ploy to get your W to see the damage sheís done? Trust me she knows and doesnít care.

I think you should give it some time.
Posted By: Ginger1

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 12:51 PM

You guys sure like to hire coaches and counselors. I know you make good money, but donít waste it .

Itís pretty simple. Use a shared calendar. Discuss things kid related only. When exchanging pass off any pertinent information. I also agree this is only beneficial for a husband and wife who mutually agreed to the divorce.

Just do your thing, she does hers, communicate when needed and your kids will be just fine
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB
I was reading one of Michelle's old posts:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=75744#Post75744

I thought number 7 was interesting. Thoughts on recommending this as an idea to help us co-parent and improve communication for the kids?

7)SEEK COUNSELING FOR FAMILIES GOING THROUGH DIVORCE!


Why not seek the counseling for you and the kids. I would avoid your STBXW at all costs right now Scott. She clearly wants time and space, so give it to her.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB
We walked through noting all the improvements and when we were done I mentioned some structural concerns that she had pointed out for years. When I brought that up she shot me a gaze that said she wanted me dead. I simply donít understand her anger.


It's pretty simple, she thinks you're trying to rip her off and devalue the house so that she gets a smaller settlement. My XW did the same, she would send me random notes informing me I needed to tell the appraiser "______" (fill in the blank). One example was there was a murder in our neighborhood and the home went up for sale, she told me I needed to tell the appraiser to remove that home from the appraisal because it would "artificially" deflate the value of our home. The home in question was not even in the appraisal but whatever!

Quote
I havenít done anything, this is all her. It doesnít make sense at all, itís ridiculous.

Itís confusing. Iíve given her every thing over the years. She stayed at home and could do anything she wanted, I donít understand where this anger comes from.


It's probably not anger, more like frustration and aggravation. She's done with you, she's done with the M, and she can't close everything out fast enough. That's pretty typical. This is going to be tough to hear but you need to understand what you are up against- she doesn't love you right now. She doesn't like you right now. You may even repulse her. This is temporary, her feelings towards you WILL change even if you don't recon. But it's going to take a long, long time. And until she has a change of heart, you have really got to try and understand her mindset and the fact that she can't stand to be in the same room as you. You need to respect that even if you hate it. Allow her the space she wants. There's a line from Game of Thrones where Cersei tells someone "Every breath you draw in my presence annoys me." That's your W's attitude about you for the time being.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
This is going to be tough to hear but you need to understand what you are up against- she doesn't love you right now. She doesn't like you right now. You may even repulse her. This is temporary, her feelings towards you WILL change even if you don't recon. But it's going to take a long, long time. And until she has a change of heart, you have really got to try and understand her mindset and the fact that she can't stand to be in the same room as you. You need to respect that even if you hate it. Allow her the space she wants.


Itís true what they say that absence makes the heart grow fonder. Itís also true that you have to go for what you want in life and take relentless action to make it happen. However, when it comes to intimate, personal and professional negotiations, the person who has the most to lose is in the weaker position of leverage. Right now Scotty you are in that position and it is new to you and you don't like it. By knowing what you want and loving and valuing yourself, you can set and enforce healthy boundaries to make sure EVERYONE in your life belongs there because they have proven through their actions that they deserve the gift of your time. This ensures that you never settle for less than what you are capable of having and creating in your life, because those that are not a match simply get bounced out of your life permanently.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 05:00 PM

I need to create another forum that is my own personal quote list of all the things you all write that are spot on; not one for everyone but one just for me.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB
I need to create another forum that is my own personal quote list of all the things you all write that are spot on; not one for everyone but one just for me.


I used a note taking app on my smartphone. I would cut and paste the on the money quotes into the note app. Also, I kept Sandi's 37 rules there. When interactions would come up I would refer to it. Sandi's 37 rules kept me from making mistakes in DBing 95% of the time. The closer to 100% you can get that percentage the better off you will be!
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 06:36 PM

So this is the email I sent:
------------
I believe it is important for our kids to see your parents, so yes, I have no problem with them going at a later date.
If you would prefer wrapping the gifts I am fine with that. Would you rather me put the presents in the garage for you to grab or plan to come over on the 22nd when we are at my parents celebrating Christmas?

What you presented for Christmas and Christmas Eve is sounds good. Letís attend the 3pm mass. That will make it easier to get dinner on at a decent hour.
I had thought we determined Christmas would be over here back when we discussed separating but I can understand how you would want to have some of it at your house. What would you propose?

It is important to me to be with daughter when she wakes up. I donít want to miss that moment.

-------------

And this is the email I got back:
-------------
Thank you for letting me move the week. Once COVID settles, I will plan something and let you know as soon as I have an idea of when to make sure itíll work.

I will come wrap on the 22nd. Please let me know what time you will be gone so I can plan accordingly.

We had discussed spending Christmas the four of us but none of those details. Going forward, we need to do a better job with communication and it being a discussion.
-------------

She didn't really answer the question related to the Christmas Eve and Christmas Day plan, I guess I assume that we will do it here?
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 06:45 PM

I would respond to that. She has shown a desire to to communicate better. So come back with something like:

"I agree that we need to communicate better related to co-parenting. Here are my thoughts: I feel that we should make this as normal of a Christmas as possible for the kids considering all we are dealing with this year. For that reason I feel we should spend Christmas Eve and Christmas morning here, since is the home they are most familiar with."

Funny how WASs logic is so fuzzy. "Let's communicate better, but I am not going to answer your question." LOL So try to clarify your assumption.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB
I was reading one of Michelle's old posts:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=75744#Post75744

I thought number 7 was interesting. Thoughts on recommending this as an idea to help us co-parent and improve communication for the kids?

7)SEEK COUNSELING FOR FAMILIES GOING THROUGH DIVORCE!


We had our kids in counselling. I don't think he was the greatest, but the thing I liked the most was he was a tie breaker.

Example:
Should kids attend a funeral? If the parents disagree, there is a "professional" that can help the parents make a decision that is in the best for the kids.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Steve85
I would respond to that. She has shown a desire to to communicate better. So come back with something like:

"I agree that we need to communicate better related to co-parenting. Here are my thoughts: I feel that we should make this as normal of a Christmas as possible for the kids considering all we are dealing with this year. For that reason I feel we should spend Christmas Eve and Christmas morning here, since is the home they are most familiar with."

Funny how WASs logic is so fuzzy. "Let's communicate better, but I am not going to answer your question." LOL So try to clarify your assumption.

Originally Posted by Steve85
I would respond to that. She has shown a desire to to communicate better. So come back with something like:

"I agree that we need to communicate better related to co-parenting. Here are my thoughts: I feel that we should make this as normal of a Christmas as possible for the kids considering all we are dealing with this year. For that reason I feel we should spend Christmas Eve and Christmas morning here, since is the home they are most familiar with."

Funny how WASs logic is so fuzzy. "Let's communicate better, but I am not going to answer your question." LOL So try to clarify your assumption.


I would also add we should communicate only through email so there is no confusion.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB

And this is the email I got back:
-------------
Thank you for letting me move the week. Once COVID settles, I will plan something and let you know as soon as I have an idea of when to make sure itíll work.

I will come wrap on the 22nd. Please let me know what time you will be gone so I can plan accordingly.

We had discussed spending Christmas the four of us but none of those details. Going forward, we need to do a better job with communication and it being a discussion.
-------------

She didn't really answer the question related to the Christmas Eve and Christmas Day plan, I guess I assume that we will do it here?


Right now is a good time to send here multiple emails. Draft up all of them. After you flush them out, send them out fairly close together. This is a quick start:

#1) Communication
H:"I agree that we need to communicate better related to co-parenting. To help reduce confusion, I propose we keep emails to one topic. I will respond to the other topic shortly."

#2) Visit to grandparents


#3) Wrapping presents
H:"W, On the 22nd, I will be at the gym at the gym from 6AM- 9AM, does this work for you? If not what time would?"

or

H:"W, On the 22nd, I have some things to take care away from the house of from 6AM- 10AM, does this work for you? If not what time would?"

#4) Christmas 2020






Posted By: Vapo

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/17/20 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB
I need to create another forum that is my own personal quote list of all the things you all write that are spot on; not one for everyone but one just for me.

Why hog the quoutes? PAy it forward. Use the knowledge that is being given to you freely and gladly to help those that come after you. Like newborn hatchlings they emerge raw and vunerable to this forum that most stumble upon, only to be taken under the wing of a senior member and nursed back to health. There is ample raward and joyin helping others.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/18/20 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by Steve85
I would respond to that. She has shown a desire to to communicate better. So come back with something like:

"I agree that we need to communicate better related to co-parenting. Here are my thoughts: I feel that we should make this as normal of a Christmas as possible for the kids considering all we are dealing with this year. For that reason I feel we should spend Christmas Eve and Christmas morning here, since is the home they are most familiar with."

Funny how WASs logic is so fuzzy. "Let's communicate better, but I am not going to answer your question." LOL So try to clarify your assumption.


Ok Steve, I went with your recommendation on this one. I added:

"Let me know what you think".

After what you recommended.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/18/20 12:25 PM

FTR, I like R2C's suggestion to have email threads for each topic. Much easier to go back and check than one being running email thread.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/20/20 01:12 AM

It's so great to have the kids. I dealt with the general anxiety of my sitch yesterday but they just make it easier. Yesterday we made cookies, had dinner, put together our new grill (the STBXW took my old one), played some ping pong and then fired up the projector we bought. It is amazing. The picture is incredibly clear. I turned it on and it shot across the house and we suddenly had 10 foot tall football players in the kitchen. I was so excited I was laughing and jumping around. We all got such a kick out of it.

Then today I invited another family over and we hung out in my new party garage. We had brats, fired up the fire pit, played ping pong, and watched football on the screen with the new projector. My son connected the projector to the stereo. It was awesome.

After spending all day outside I am exhausted. Tomorrow we are planning to go skiiing most of the day, which should be a blast.

I think I'm doing okay on the GAL, I still miss my family (more than my wife, if that makes sense). I miss sharing the kids lives and mine with her. A day at a time. The next three should be lots of fun with lots planned.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/20/20 01:35 AM

Goos stuff Scotty B and yes it makes sense. Pretty soon thatís all you miss and you wonít miss her at all. It just takes time.
Posted By: OnlyBent

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/20/20 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by LH19
Pretty soon thatís all you miss and you wonít miss her at all.


And I think that's the part that scares the LBS initially, the idea that one day we won't miss them.

I don't know if I can speak for others, but my guess is that most feel the same.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/20/20 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by OnlyBent
Originally Posted by LH19
Pretty soon thatís all you miss and you wonít miss her at all.


And I think that's the part that scares the LBS initially, the idea that one day we won't miss them.

I don't know if I can speak for others, but my guess is that most feel the same.

Why are you afraid to not miss someone who has discarded you like a piece of trash?
Posted By: OnlyBent

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/20/20 09:25 PM

I'm not disagreeing with you LH, I get what you are saying.

When you have been with someone for 10 years plus (like most here have) and you are rejected by that person and desperately want to save your MR, the thought of letting go and eventually not missing them is scary. The rose tinted glasses are on and this person seems like the most perfect person you have met and that you will never find someone else. The thought that one day you won't care whether they are in your life is hard to come to grips with after all you have been through with them, even though this is exactly what is necessary.

I felt this way, I am guessing others have too. Probably in the last week or so this fear has disappeared, I accepted that in the future the WS will be just my child's parent and nothing more. Its very liberating.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/20/20 10:01 PM

I understand Bent but the longer you stay there the longer you will stay stuck. This isnít a phase sheís going through this is who she has become. Do yourself a favor and believe her.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/21/20 12:26 AM

Iím definitely not afraid of no longer missing her. It feels more like the opposite; I wish i didnít miss her. I wish I didnít have the feelings. Today was another small step though; I went to church with the kids and she sat with us. At the sign of peace I reached to shake her hand and she gave me a cross look, I was annoyed but whatever.

In the way to our ski hill I felt feelings of anxiety related to the end of the marriage. I also recognized that i probably wouldnít have been going skiing with the kids today if she was around. I took the kids skiing and didnít think too much about her at all. Just enjoyed time with the kids.

My daughter needed to get some stuff at her house and I walked her to the door but stayed outside. My STBXW said I could come in instead of standing in the cold. We talked a little about the kids and then I left. I didnít really have any sad or anxious or bad feelings when I left, which was good. The kids are doing well and seem happy. I would still like to reconcile but itís not on me and it wonít be soon so Iíll just keep GALing.

Tomorrow I have a call with my DB coach which will be interesting. Iím curious as to what that conversation will look like at this time.

We are planning to celebrate Christmas together but she never answered any of the questions I had asked about what it would look like or where she would sleep - and as Steve pointed out it was funny that she didnít answer those questions in the same email that she said we needed to communicate better. Whatever.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/21/20 12:55 AM

So Scotty B you guys see each other more then some married couples. Itís going to be really hard for her to miss you when you guys are in constant contact.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/21/20 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB
I went to church with the kids and she sat with us. At the sign of peace I reached to shake her hand and she gave me a cross look
Always interesting...I remember the same thing from my X. Hopefully your W is not following in my X's footsteps...I think she broke most of the sacraments multiple times,,,,then claims she is catholic.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/21/20 08:10 PM

R2C - Kind of like this: ďCommandments are suggestions and covenants are made to be broken.Ē
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/21/20 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by Ready2Change
I think she broke most of the sacraments multiple times,,,,then claims she is catholic.


So easy for a WAS to spin things to justify them. It might go something like this- "God wants me to be happy and he knows how unhappy I am in this marriage, and how a fling with someone new will make me happy again, therefore God approves of me having an affair." I mean after all, it's all the LBS's fault the WAS needs this fling so badly. If God wants to blame someone...

I'm sure one of you guys will recall, was it in one of Michele's books or someone else's that gets into the WAS's "rationalization hamster"? That little sucker's legs go a million miles an hour non stop.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/21/20 09:26 PM

There is a book ďLove Must Be ToughĒ that goes through the four rationalizations of the WAS. Itís very good. How they justify to the LBS, the kids, friends and family, and lastly God. Itís nearly word for word what my WAS said to me. Itís spooky.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/23/20 03:15 PM

I had five great days with the kids. I am exhausted. We did Christmas with my family, went skiiing, watched movies late, had friends over, did some baking. Yesterday I don't remember feeling anxious at all which was unusual and a good thing.

I had a call with my DB coach and he had a couple of things to point out - more life stuff than saving the marriage stuff, but I think the marriage is a good way to learn about life.

He said if I was generous, that's fine, and If I don't want to be fine, but don't be generous and then complain about it - that's not fine. I thought that was good feedback.

He said I need to forgive regularly and not to carry bitterness and resentment into MY days - because resentment only punishes me.

On our call I mentioned that I didn't give a carp about what she thought in regards to taking the kids on trips. He said that in regards to that the pendulum was swinging too far in the wrong direction. He said the perspective I need to have is to think "I care what you think, but I am going to do what I think is right." The key being not to surrender my agency.

He said that if I let bitterness and resentment take hold that will impact me and my future relationships.

He seemed to think I was doing a good job and mentioned that if there was ever a reconciliation, it wouldn't be reconciling the old relationship. He said it would be reconciling who I am becoming with who she is becoming.

He mentioned that in marriages sometime we sacrifice for love, but sometimes we sacrifice too much and that's what I had done. So I need to learn that lesson for the future.

It was interesting, at my parents house for the holidays my mom thought I was staying an extra night for dinner though I had told her we weren't. She had planned a meal and everything and I felt so horrible having to tell her that we weren't staying, even though it wasn't my mistake. I really struggled to tell her (because I could have stayed with the kids).

It felt exactly the same as things did with my wife at times where I would just go with something so that I didn't have to rock the boat or hurt someone's feelings. I hate disappointing people. That's something I need to work on.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/23/20 05:21 PM

Sounds like some excellent advice from your coach!

The holidays are tough when you're going through this. You'll be on kid overload and then your W has them and you're slammed with all kinds of difficult, lonely feelings. Try to have plans to occupy yourself, especially if you're taking time off and won't have the kiddos. Fill your days with activities. Make a list, might be chores you need to get done, or fun stuff you want to try, or both. Go down the list, do the things, check them off and do the next. Stay busy, ESPECIALLY if you want to just wallow in self-pity!
Posted By: Oceangl

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/23/20 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB
There is a book ďLove Must Be ToughĒ that goes through the four rationalizations of the WAS. Itís very good. How they justify to the LBS, the kids, friends and family, and lastly God. Itís nearly word for word what my WAS said to me. Itís spooky.


Yes, that's a great one! I remember thinking the same thing - almost exactly what my WS would say to me. It was a good dose of reality to go along with DBing and detaching.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/23/20 08:09 PM

Scott, but disappointing people is fine of the expectations are true and good. For instance, your kids expect you to be a good Father. Don't disappoint them. But your mom not understanding your plans? That was a falae expecttation. And therefore isn't your responsibility.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/23/20 10:58 PM

That should read "if the expectations are not true and good".

Scott just wanted to let you know I'm praying for you for tomorrow. I know you're hurting, just try to not let her words and actions affect you tomorrow. You're a great dad, and you'll be great for your kids tomorrow!
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/26/20 05:13 AM

Itís been a wild and long 60 hours; I look forward to filling yíall in. Thanks Steve for the prayers. WASí donít quit, just craziness. Iíll have time to write tomorrow. Hope yíall had a merry Christmas
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/26/20 10:36 PM

On the 23rd my neighbors invited me over for a beer and in conversation one of the women who I've known for years was asking about where my wife moved. Out of no where she asked me if I "had hope". I paused and really thought deeply about it - my answer to her question was no, but I didn't say that. I did say the truth, "I'm not sure how to answer that, but my hope is for a better life for me and my kids. We're going to do our best." And that's how I feel. I'm going to my best for me and my best to take care of the kids.

Then I got news that my STBXW's sister who is in her early 40's suffered a minor stroke. There was a lot of drama around that. My sister in law has been under a lot of stress and she tends to carry everyone's problems around for them.

On the 24th my wife came over for dinner with the kids and stayed the night. My sister-in-law got released around 5:30pm and at 6:30pm, as I'm grilling steaks sent a text to my STBXW and me that read "My Christmas wish is that the two of you find your way back together. Maybe that's too much to ask, but I love you two and it's breaking my heart what's happening."

Wow. I didn't see that coming - my STBXW and I did not discuss it. At my house we did have a lot to drink. I asked her what she wanted and she said a martini. I was 100% on board and we had appetizers. Then when that was gone I opened a bottle of prosecco. At dinner we had a bottle of wine.

At dinner she spent the entire time talking about herself and didn't ask me a question about myself. She talked about the job she was interviewing for and dropped an F bomb related to it. The kids were in the room and I was surprised. She called the hiring manager a douche bag twice. She was belligerent. She discussed how she didn't want to take the job that was going to be offered to her because its not what she wants to do with her life and she started to cry.

As I sat there and worked to validate and listen I was thinking to myself that if this were a "date" with a random women, I wouldn't go out with her again.

At 10:30p that night she finally told me where she intended to sleep, which was on my daughters bunk beds. That was a relief at that point.

We also had an interesting exchange where we talked about how I was parenting my son differently. I told her I wasn't going to push him to be his best any more. I was going to let him figure things out on his own, that caught her off guard and peaked her curiosity. She was also curious about some of the changes I made to the house.

Christmas day was good. My daughter woke us up at 6am to open gifts. We did presents with the kids and were done around 8:30a. We were all in the family room and my wife was under blankets on the couch and then she decided to take a nap for about 40 minutes, which blew my mind. I was just thinking about how weird it would be for me to do that at her house or anyone else's for that matter.

I pushed breakfast off so that they would stay longer. After breakfast we played with some gifts and then we played ping pong as a family and had a lot of fun. Then we watched the Polar Express as a family. I was a little confused because I thought they would leave after breakfast but it didn't seem like she wanted to leave for one reason or another - I assume she just wanted the kids to be with both of us, but that surprised me as well.

She facetimed with her family while here for Christmas and to see how her sister was doing. On that call her sister again brought up that our divorce was breaking her heart - I couldn't believe it. Also over the 24 hours my wife was over she teared up on several occasions.

On the way out of the house she gave me a hug.

I will also say that she looked sexy on Christmas eve and on Christmas day she looked very cute. After they left I went to my parents for dinner and had a great time.

All and all the interaction was weird. We have our next mediation session on Monday.

Mentally I feel pretty good. My IC recommended journaling every day and I think that is helping. I'm sleeping pretty good and the last three days I haven't had my daily dose of anxiety.

When I don't have my kids and I get bored I'm very tempted to download a dating app to see what's out there, but I continue to avoid that. Anyhow, that's the report.
Posted By: DonH

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/26/20 11:12 PM

You sound like you are doing well. Your W sounds like so many of the WAW/WW spouses out there. She is not happy with any aspect of her life. She doesnít like work, family is evidently not cheerleading her D decision. I went through some of the same. It was also at Christmas time and then even more so just after the holidays that my WAW starting rethinking things. She said she wanted to try to put things back together shortly after the holidays but that was short lived with her actually trying for a month to 6 weeks before just going through the motions for several more months and then finally filing.

Very interesting how you would likely not even date the woman your W has become. You seem like youíre on the right path. Keep doing things for you. Your W will for certain notice it. She may or may not be impacted by it. Or she may be largely impacted by it but you wonít want her as she is. That has happened more than you might suspect. Just keep living your life. Keep doing what you think is best. Let her come to you - or not.

As for OLD, donít, just donít. Trust me, looks can be very deceiving. You may see on paper and in photos women you say, wow, I want to meet her, until you actually do, and then they act much like your W did at Christmas - or worse. There are a lot of misfits in The Land of Misfit Toys that is online dating.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/26/20 11:14 PM

Scott, glad things went relatively well. I would caution you though, what I'm seeing here is a woman that is friend zoning her soon-to-be exH, and I feel you are seeing all of this as a sign you still have a chance of saving your MR. Maybe you do still have a chance but I'm not sure you should put expectations into naps, tears, and your SiL's words. Expectations will set you up for disappointment everytime.

Likely the tears and the nap were coming from the same place the fbomb and other kid unfriendly language came from: alcohol. And she likely used the alcohol to deal with an otherwise awkward situation.

Back on the DB horse. Now that this bad idea joint Christmas is past, time to move on with or without her to an awesome life.

BTW, love your answer to your neighbor! Now go put that plan into action!!
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/27/20 12:17 AM

Scotty B,

Now that the holidays are over I think itís really important that you remove your STBXW from your life as much as possible.

I find it odd she wonít pick up presents when your home but she sleeps over on Christmas Eve.

Youíre doing well so keep moving forward.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/27/20 01:26 PM

LH - I read your post and i wondered is ďkeep moving forwardĒ the best way to preserve myself or is that the best way to get my wife to comeback, or both?

She sent me a text yesterday to let me know her house has a flea infestation. She didnít ask for anything. I just text her back ďThat stinks.Ē

Later in the day I text her that i was going snowboarding tomorrow and said if the kids wanted to go i would take them. She asked them and my son wants to go, so Iím picking him up in an hour. Thatís going to make today a great day.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/27/20 01:48 PM

Scotty B,

Itís a way to preserve yourself for whatís next to come.

Youíre settling into the friend zone with her. Again, not a bad thing if that works for you.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/27/20 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB
LH - I read your post and i wondered is ďkeep moving forwardĒ the best way to preserve myself or is that the best way to get my wife to comeback, or both?

She sent me a text yesterday to let me know her house has a flea infestation. She didnít ask for anything. I just text her back ďThat stinks.Ē

Later in the day I text her that i was going snowboarding tomorrow and said if the kids wanted to go i would take them. She asked them and my son wants to go, so Iím picking him up in an hour. Thatís going to make today a great day.


You might want to keep an eye out in your place for fleas. She she stayed there and presumably brought an overnight bag.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/27/20 06:16 PM

Iím hanging out with my son today and Iím just thinking I hate this whole thing. I wonít, which is why Iím putting it here, but I just want to tell her that. A marriage is about more than husband and wife. Itís about kids and family. Itís horrible that my kids can only see us on ďour days.Ē This whole thing [censored]. No reason for it.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/27/20 08:02 PM

When i picked him up she invited me in for the first time.

But When I dropped him off and she wanted nothing to do with me. That makes things easier unfortunately.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/27/20 08:46 PM

So Scotty B your STBXW says your right Scotty marriage is more then h and w. But I donít think I can ever love you like a w loves a h but since I made a vow I will stay with you. I do not want to have sex with you and I will be miserable all the time.

Does that sound appealing to you?

Or

You build an amazing life that attracts like minded amazing people and maybe your w realizes her fantasy life isnít that great and begs you to come back.
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/27/20 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB
Iím hanging out with my son today and Iím just thinking I hate this whole thing. I wonít, which is why Iím putting it here, but I just want to tell her that. A marriage is about more than husband and wife. Itís about kids and family. Itís horrible that my kids can only see us on ďour days.Ē This whole thing [censored]. No reason for it.


Hi Scott,

If itís not already in your divorce / custody agreement, consider adding that the kids may call (or video call) either parent at any time. My kids can ďseeĒ either of their parents anytime they want to.

Youíve been doing a great job finding your groove.

At some point it gets smoother. I spent a week with my kids celebrating Christmas by chopping down a tree, baking cookies, shopping for gifts, watching movies, etc. Now Iím spending a week visiting 5 national parks, 2 with my gf and 3 solo.

My marriage with my ex-wife is over. Our relationships with and responsibilities towards our kids endure.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/28/20 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by ScottB
When I don't have my kids and I get bored I'm very tempted to download a dating app to see what's out there, but I continue to avoid that. Anyhow, that's the report.
That is not a good tactic to attract your wife back.

A bunch of other of your behaviors are also not very good tactics to attract your wife back. You are headed into the friend zone. This is not a place where you want to be either.

Do you want this woman as a lover? Then you have to treat her different. You can never go back to Scott 1.0.

This is all about Scott 2.0. IT is all about your behavior. Do your homework and change your behavior.

I am never bored. I have so many things I want to do or learn. I am sure your bedroom (as well as the rest of the house) need a good manly make-over. Start there if you don't have any other ideas what to do when you are "bored" which might really be lonely.






Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/28/20 10:20 PM

R2C - I agree I'm heading into the friend zone. I'm not sure how to change that. Homework you recommend is entrepreneurs in cars?

As for never being bored, I don't know what to tell you. I keep pretty busy but sometimes, its later at night, nothing is on TV, I'm too tired to read and I'm looking for something to do - that's a tough time for me.

Last night I did go to dinner with a friend but it ended early and then I had nothing going. Good news, he did invite me on an offroad motorcycle trip in August, so I'm hoping to jump on that.
-----------------------------
Today we had another mediation session. My STBXW brought up some parenting issues, which IMO should be discussed in counseling, not mediation. It was interesting that our mediator pointed out to my STBXW how she was attacking me instead of talking to me - I wish we had a marriage counselor with the guts to point that out.

The mediator also told my STBXW on three or four occasions that she couldn't tell me what to do at my house or with my time. I was amused by that as well.

Mediation took it out of me this morning. I've got the kids today and didn't have much for us to do. Tomorrow we're going skiing which will be fun.
Posted By: OnlyBent

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/28/20 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB
As for never being bored, I don't know what to tell you. I keep pretty busy but sometimes, its later at night, nothing is on TV, I'm too tired to read and I'm looking for something to do - that's a tough time for me.


Scotty, how about just going to bed at these times. The better rested you are, the more energy you'll have towards GAL, kids, reading at night.
Posted By: Ginger1

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/28/20 11:14 PM

^^^^ if you are too tired to read, it usually means itís time to go to sleep. If you are too tired too read, you should be too tired to read dating profiles.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/29/20 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by ScottB
R2C - I agree I'm heading into the friend zone. I'm not sure how to change that. Homework you recommend is entrepreneurs in cars?

As for never being bored, I don't know what to tell you. I keep pretty busy but sometimes, its later at night, nothing is on TV, I'm too tired to read and I'm looking for something to do - that's a tough time for me.

Last night I did go to dinner with a friend but it ended early and then I had nothing going. Good news, he did invite me on an offroad motorcycle trip in August, so I'm hoping to jump on that.
-----------------------------
Today we had another mediation session. My STBXW brought up some parenting issues, which IMO should be discussed in counseling, not mediation. It was interesting that our mediator pointed out to my STBXW how she was attacking me instead of talking to me - I wish we had a marriage counselor with the guts to point that out.

The mediator also told my STBXW on three or four occasions that she couldn't tell me what to do at my house or with my time. I was amused by that as well.

Mediation took it out of me this morning. I've got the kids today and didn't have much for us to do. Tomorrow we're going skiing which will be fun.


Best way to get out of the friend zone is you donít engage. ďScotty there are flees in my houseĒ your response crickets, nothing, zippo, zero. You donít give into your nice guy syndrome. When you engage only in regards to the kids you are not in the friend zone you are coparenting.

So you have Christmas Eve together laughing drinking just like the good ole days. You go over she invites you in and tells you about her flea problems and life is grand. Classic Scotty B ďthis is confusingĒ.

Monday morning roles around and you go to mediation and you get attacked and basically told youíre not parenting right.

Scotty B when are you going to learn that she is not your friend is she is going to impose her will on you as much as she possibly can?

Lastly, when are you going to understand that nothing in counseling ever worked or ever will work because sheís not interested in fixing anything?
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/29/20 12:43 AM

LH - You made me laugh out loud. Those last two questions were so true. I know youíve been where I am, so you understand the mind F.

The mediator today said her hope is that we file by April.

My STBXW was supposed to get a job offer today (or she was told she didnít get the job). And hear I am, Mr. Nice Guy wanting to reach out and check in. If she didnít get it she will he crushed.

Since the separation, every interaction Iíve had with her (2 mediations, 1 drop off, Christmas) she has cried more in front of me than she had in years. She is broken and life is giving her a real tough hand right now. Her dads dementia, her sisters stroke, all kinds of issues with her house, parenting issues, job search issues - life is hard for her.

I know, not my concern. I was fired. Well, itís not that clean and easy.
óóóó
My life is going well and continues to go well. Tomorrow Iím taking both kids skiing. Wednesday after work Iím grabbing a drink with a good friend. Thursday Iíve got no plans, which kind of stinks - but a friend of mine might be having some people over.

My next 5 day stretch without the kids I might do a spiritual retreat to fill that time. Itís something Iím interested in so weíll see.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/29/20 12:58 AM

What does itís not that clean and easy mean?
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/29/20 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB
LH - You made me laugh out loud. Those last two questions were so true. I know youíve been where I am, so you understand the mind F.

The mediator today said her hope is that we file by April.

My STBXW was supposed to get a job offer today (or she was told she didnít get the job). And hear I am, Mr. Nice Guy wanting to reach out and check in. If she didnít get it she will he crushed.

Since the separation, every interaction Iíve had with her (2 mediations, 1 drop off, Christmas) she has cried more in front of me than she had in years. She is broken and life is giving her a real tough hand right now. Her dads dementia, her sisters stroke, all kinds of issues with her house, parenting issues, job search issues - life is hard for her.

I know, not my concern. I was fired. Well, itís not that clean and easy.
óóóó
My life is going well and continues to go well. Tomorrow Iím taking both kids skiing. Wednesday after work Iím grabbing a drink with a good friend. Thursday Iíve got no plans, which kind of stinks - but a friend of mine might be having some people over.

My next 5 day stretch without the kids I might do a spiritual retreat to fill that time. Itís something Iím interested in so weíll see.


The guilt often makes them cry. And we LBSs usually misinterpret their tears. "He/she is not a crier, so this is big." Because we as the LBS like to pretend that we are still dealing when the person we married. Even though we aren't.

So if you're implying her crying is an indication of remorse, or sadness at what she is losing, becareful. Go by actions. She's still dragging you to mediation, and then trying to criticize you to the mediator. That speaks louder than tears.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/29/20 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by ScottB
R2C - I agree I'm heading into the friend zone. I'm not sure how to change that. Homework you recommend is entrepreneurs in cars?
That is the tip of the iceberg. IE start there and keep going down the personal growth path. We all have room to improve the way we interact with others. Some ways are attractive and others are not. Some of his beliefs I disagree with, but that is based off of extensive research into the subject and other experts opinions and information as well as my own personal experience. In your case, you should really challenge your current beliefs and be extremely open to ideas that may be polar from your current ones. Dig down into those. Are they good traits to have for you? If so, can you change your behavior to incorporate them into your core?



What works is counter intuitive. The only way to attract her back is to not try and attract her back. It is that simple. You just become the best you. She may like what she sees. If she shows interest, you make her work for your attention. You have criteria that you need to see in her behavior.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/29/20 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by LH19
Scotty B when are you going to learn that she is not your friend is she is going to impose her will on you as much as she possibly can?
She may attempt to manipulate you with alligator tears. Validate the feelings, but do not let them affect your emotional state.

Look how Clint Eastwood embodies how to respond to woman (or bad guys, or evil). Does he ever emotionally react? he takes care of business. He never chases a woman, but rather the woman are attracted to him and pursue him.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/29/20 10:57 PM

The tears she shed over her sisters stroke made me want to give her a hug, but I didnít.

The tears about the new job she is going to have to take, about how my daughter is supposedly scared of Covid, the fleas, and all the rest, they arenít About guilt. They are all about how hard her life is. Those donít manipulate me too much. I do feel for her some, sheís had a tough run, but the tears arenít why; and they are not about guilt. This woman doesnít have guilt. Guilt would lead to a degree of humility; sheís too proud. The tears are all for herself, thatís what she thinks about and cares about.
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/29/20 11:54 PM

Itís going to take a really long time for her to got rock bottom.
Posted By: OnlyBent

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/30/20 12:06 AM

Define long for the players at home LH
Posted By: LH19

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/30/20 12:24 AM

2-5 years. You have to remember though that with all the damage done itís hard for them to admit they made a big mistake. Some do move on and are happier.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/30/20 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by ScottB
The tears she shed over her sisters stroke made me want to give her a hug, but I didnít.

The tears about the new job she is going to have to take, about how my daughter is supposedly scared of Covid, the fleas, and all the rest, they arenít About guilt. They are all about how hard her life is. Those donít manipulate me too much. I do feel for her some, sheís had a tough run, but the tears arenít why; and they are not about guilt. This woman doesnít have guilt. Guilt would lead to a degree of humility; sheís too proud. The tears are all for herself, thatís what she thinks about and cares about.

Well my overall point is still the same. The tears do not mean that her new life is so hard that she wants to go back to the old one. Just felt like you were insinuating that her tears were a sign she might come back. Yet all of her actions still say otherwise, just keep focusing on yourself and moving forward.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/30/20 01:32 PM

No, I don't think she will come back. If I insinuated that, I didn't mean to. I agree, there is no movement in the "back together" direction. Its only been a month since she moved out. There is not chance that she would change her mind in that time frame. If and when she does get a job things will get harder for her.

The divorce / mediation looks like its going to move pretty fast. I am shocked we could file by April. And then I'm told its 3-5 months from that point until it is done.

Drop off with the kids was hard on me again; having to wake my son up on his day off and haul my daughter out of the house in her PJ's when they should be able to stay put really pissed me off and made me sad for them.

Yesterday was great, we snowboarded all day and then last night we set up my new projector in my room and all laid on my bed to watch shows. That was fun.
--------------
I'm going out to dinner and drinks with a friend tonight. Don't have anything planned tomorrow for New Years Eve yet, but that might be for the best. A friend did say he might have people over but he hasn't finalized it. I just assume go to bed early and get up to work out before I get the kids back.
Posted By: ScottB

Re: WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont4.) - 12/30/20 04:51 PM

My new thread:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2911578&#Post2911578
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