My W is going through a midlife crisis affair (according to my personal therapist and our couple's therapist). I would appreciate any advice anyone could give.
Here's our story (sorry, it's long):
My W has been dealing with terrible depression for the past two years. Right before Covid hit, she enrolled in group therapy for depression that lasted a few weeks. They prescribed her with medication that seemed to help. Because of Covid, we both had to work from home, which put more strain on her (she loves working/talking with people). She also doesn't like her job so we've been saving for her to go back to school. Around May, my W started talking to an old friend. I didn't know at the time, but she used to like him in college but they never dated. He would string her along but never date because she was still a virgin. He would sleep with other people and talk about it. She obsessed about him for years after he left town without my knowledge.
We were planning on having kids and she kept telling me she wanted to run away. I would tell her kids can wait and we didn't even need to have any if she didn't want to. Early October, my W went to visit friends to see what it would be like to have kids. When she came back, She told me she had fallen for the AP. Keeping my cool, I asked if my W what were the problems in our relationship and if she wanted to work on them. She said she wanted to work on us. I asked her to stop communicating with the AP, which she agreed to. We scheduled a couple's intensive. The weeks before the intensive, our relationship was stronger than ever. We communicated on a different level, sex was great, we spent more time together talking. A few days before the intensive, the AP reached out and chased her. She told me but I could tell things were different.
During the couple's intensive, my W showed serious signs of ambivalence towards our relationship. The therapist requested my W cut off all communication with the AP for 12 weeks to see if we could work on our relationship. For two weeks, my W was depressed and cried. She started to perk up... but I soon learned it was because she started to talk with the AP again. I asked her to go stay at a friend if she was unwilling to work on the marriage.
Since then, she's put all of her effort into the new relationship. We talked once when she came to get her stuff. I asked how my W was doing and she started to cry. She said she was confused. All I could do is say I understood.
Our marriage counselor told us he wouldn't work with us as long as my W continued the affair. He offered one follow up, which happened yesterday. My W attacked me for not talking with her, being short in our communication. My W said I was making things difficult by not responding to her immediately. She said our relationship problems were now issues for our entire 9 years together (originally the last year). I hadn't slept in days so I was very defensive (I know that's a no no).
My therapist told me the years of depression, baggage she's never worked on with her family (father and religious baggage), baggage with the old lover (now AP), her job, Covid, etc. caused her to have an early midlife crisis. She reverted back to her college years and attached her happiness with this guy from college. Keep in mind, this guy was a terrible person to her, has never had a LT relationship, and is a struggling artist. Her emotional relationship has now become physical. I'm starting to worry there's nothing left I can do. I've kept her from living the original life she used to have. I'm not letting her have her cake and eat it. I've offered her a path back. She just seems hateful and mean towards me. My W has been emotionless the entire ride as if she's never loved me. She seems like a completely different person. I'm not saying we didn't have problems in our marriage. We both avoided them but they are fixable problems. I love her and would regret moving on to find out she was just in an affair fog. Any advice would be appreciated.
I've been trying to be short in our conversations. I haven't contacted her unless we had to talk about finances. I typically don't respond or call her back immediately (although, I noticed she does). I started working out more, for me and my sanity, and spending every night with friends or family.
Note: I ordered The Divorce Remedy. Can't wait to read.
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M: 35 W:31
T: 9 M: 2.5
Separated: 1 month
DDay: 2 months
Welcome! I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome posting. Also, you may want to visit the MLC Forum as well.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmand Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Sorry you're here, unfortunately and fortunately we've read so many similar stories.
It's hard, but detach from her. Don't surrender any of your power to her. She is making up hurtful things bc witnesses her pain and guilt. She is not and will not be the same person ever again. Accept that truth, and move forward with a positive attitude.
Continue to GAL and see the therapist, he sounds like a winner. Work on you. Keep comms with her short and to the point, and don't respond to questions that aren't pertinent such as "How are you feeling ". She's not your woman anymore and you need to keep a clean boundary. Remove her path home and let her feel you going your own way with confidence that no matter how bad the circumstances, you will fight on and prevail.
Continue working on yourself as a man. Work hard, grow mentally, GAL. You seem strong already. Good luck.
Hybrid, call your Dr ASAP to get you something to help you sleep. You cannot go days without sleep. You cannot function or process anything on no sleep. I know, I was there.
Thanks for the response ovrrnbw. I definitely understand my W is not the same person anymore. She's made that abundantly clear. I mostly hope she comes back. I heard stories of couples pulling through this and creating a stronger MR. My W sat on a friend's couch alone on Thanksgiving and will be alone for Christmas. It's excruciating knowing she'll be alone. My Therapist said to not invite her.
I'm definitely trying to work on myself but it's been a struggle for sure. I can't sleep or stop thinking about her. The lack of comms has definitely made her lash out more when we do talk. I'm almost worried It's pushing her farther away. I'll continue down this path with hope and work on me.
NickWing, my friends and family all gave the same advice. I'll definitely reach out to my Dr. Thanks for the advice.
....I would appreciate any advice anyone could give... Her emotional relationship has now become physical. I'm starting to worry there's nothing left I can do
We can't control other people. We can just control how we respond and interact with them.
Right now, this is about you and your journey forward without her. We have all been where you are. We have seen some save their marriages, and some that don't. After going through this process, we come out better versions of our true selves.
You will find great poeple here that can support you through this difficult time of your life. Keep posting and others will give you there advise and understanding.
I wish you well
hybrid, welcome and sorry you are going through this. I know it is probably the worst thing you've ever dealt with. However, we have a lots of experience in dealing with WAS/WSs on this forum, so you came to a good place. Understand that the feedback and advice can be blunt at times, but that is for your own good. Please remember, the people that try to help are doing it for no other reason than to try and help. Plus, most of us have been there!
Get DR and read it. You did the right thing asking her to leave. You are doing the right thing by not being at her beck and call. You need to focus on you, take all focus off of her. GAL like a madman. Keep working on you (180s and self-improvements) and detach and learn to be happy by yourself.
By the way this whole paragraph:
My therapist told me the years of depression, baggage she's never worked on with her family (father and religious baggage), baggage with the old lover (now AP), her job, Covid, etc. caused her to have an early midlife crisis. She reverted back to her college years and attached her happiness with this guy from college. Keep in mind, this guy was a terrible person to her, has never had a LT relationship, and is a struggling artist. Her emotional relationship has now become physical. I'm starting to worry there's nothing left I can do. I've kept her from living the original life she used to have. I'm not letting her have her cake and eat it. I've offered her a path back. She just seems hateful and mean towards me. My W has been emotionless the entire ride as if she's never loved me. She seems like a completely different person. I'm not saying we didn't have problems in our marriage. We both avoided them but they are fixable problems. I love her and would regret moving on to find out she was just in an affair fog. Any advice would be appreciated.
Look the reasons behind what she is doing isn't important. LBSs, especially we LBHs, think if we can diagnose the problem, then we can fix it. The fact is that the reasons are extremely complex, you'll never fully understand, and most importantly: YOU CANNOT FIX IT.
That last point is important. RIght now you need to be removing all pressure and pursuit. That means zero pressure and no pursuit, period. Remember, focus off of her. Stop trying to save the marriage as it is impossible to do alone. It takes 2 to make a marriage. Unfortunately, it only takes 1 to get a divorce.
This sentence saddens me: "I love her and would regret moving on to find out she was just in an affair fog." If you move on, who cares if she is just in an affair fog. Go read Steve_'s threads. His wife has cheated on him 5 times! SO what if that is just 5 affair fogs? To me it is pretty easy: Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Affair fog. MLC. COVID. Depression. The AP has a magic unit. Her dad was religious (shame on him! -sarcasm-). None of it justifies her running back to an old college flame when things in her marriage got rough. Nothing she could point to in that list or the list you gave in your OP JUSTIFIES sleeping with another man. And that you are willing to chalk that up to "affair" fog and are willing to waltz back in just by saying "I'll work on the marriage" is sad.
Here is the thing. DO NOT let her come back until she is already doing the work to return. The worst thing you can do is, the minute the AP flakes out on her, let her come running back. She needs to earn her way back. That means:
-No contact with AP including a cease and desist letter approved by you sent to him
-FULL TRANSPARENCY. She agrees to a shared location phone app where you can see where she is at all time. She shares all account and PWs with you. You have access to every SM account, email account, online profile etc.
-She agrees to go back to MC and actually work on the marriage. This means doing all of the assigned homework the MC might assign
-She agrees to get into IC to deal with her issues
Anything short of that list and you are setting yourself up for affair fog #2 at some point.in the future. Also, feel free to add anything you want to require to that list! But the point is that she has to be doing the work already to come back!
Steve85, I just read your post after getting another bout of emotion and I got to be honest, it helped. My family and friends are supportive but the bluntness has actually calmed me down (not saying it would work for everyone).
You're right, I DO struggle with thinking I can fix things but ultimately, I can't. I DO try and justify her actions but there is truly nothing that justifies it. My W never even communicated there was a problem. My W can and will do whatever she wants. I usually get overwhelmed when I pay attention to the small details: I've delayed responses but she responds/pickups up immediately (complete change in our dynamic), my W asks if I will be home when she plans to get more of her stuff, etc. It's rough but she's probably trying to string me along just in case. She has been very upset I haven't reached out as much or talked at all about my feelings. I do need to stop focusing on her and start focusing on myself more.
I'll definitely check out Steve_'s threads. I know she's struggling with guilt over the entire thing (her choice) but the H in me is still focusing on wanting her to be happy. Regardless, i hear you about not just accepting her back. There is NO justification for having a relationship with an AP. My gut would be to just welcome her with open arms but the truth is she would probably do it again. I've been the nice guy trying to help her live the best life she could live.
I appreciate your list of requirements if she does come back. I know it's a slim chance it would even happen, but if it does, I'll use that list as a starting point for requirements.
---------------
M: 35 W:31
T: 9 M: 2.5
Separated: 1 month
DDay: 2 months
Here is the thing. DO NOT let her come back until she is already doing the work to return. The worst thing you can do is, the minute the AP flakes out on her, let her come running back. She needs to earn her way back. That means:
-No contact with AP including a cease and desist letter approved by you sent to him
-FULL TRANSPARENCY. She agrees to a shared location phone app where you can see where she is at all time. She shares all account and PWs with you. You have access to every SM account, email account, online profile etc.
-She agrees to go back to MC and actually work on the marriage. This means doing all of the assigned homework the MC might assign
-She agrees to get into IC to deal with her issues
To add to this. You make HER create the list. You do not give her your list. You compare her list to yours and if it not up to yours, then "That's a good start, but there is more you will need to do so I can trust you"
Hi everyone. So I've started to read the DR (almost done). It is clear, based on my current situation, the only thing left to do is follow the LRT. My W is staying with a friend and has committed 100% to the new relationship. My W has already told me she plans to file for D after the holidays (she wanted to "get through the holidays" first). I've already stopped chasing and have started GAL... although, I definitely need to work on this more.
I know there are no guarantees, but Step 3 (Wait and Watch) doesn't answer a question I was hoping the community could. This step doesn't address how my W would even notice, based on our situation. When my W stops by to get more stuff from the house, it's usually while I'm at work. When my W needs to contact me, it's via text message. She can't see any posts I make on social media because I blocked her to avoid seeing anything that would upset me. The only potential interaction available is a "follow up" marriage counseling session to see how we're doing in January.
For TLR to even have a chance, my W would need to see how I've changed. Is there anything I should do? I'm aware I have to let her be the one to reach out, but that might never happen.
and yes, I know this is more about becoming a better person and gaining back my self-esteem. I just haven't given up hope.
H,
If your W is already committed in another relationship there is nothing you can do right now. If you want to reconcile you are in a waiting game that will most likely take years. She can’t and will not see your changes for a really long time. See a lawyer and figure what’s best for you.
I’m sorry.
LH is right, and to ease your stress consider that most likely W won’t believe your changes if she sees them now anyway. You need to actually change and become a different you, a better you.
Make the changes for you and your future life.
Long term she might see it.
This is a marathon. You have just started.
If it’s real MLC it will take years and in fact she might be changed for forever.
Things are different now. You said it yourself, she's like a different person. And in a lot of ways, that's what you have. A different person. It is very confusing.
You need to do the LRT things. But I want you to focus on working on yourself, FOR yourself.
It's going to be hard at first because you want the M saved. Every thing you do at first is going to be from the desire to save your MR. But trust me, you can't LRT and keep checking to see if it works. "Look at me, I'm awesome, look how awesome I am!" isn't what you need to do.
In my opinion, LRT is not seeking approval from your W. It's being the best version of you for you, and at the same time displaying it for her to see. She might or she might not care, because she has already made her short-term decision to be with AP. It's going to be confusing because she might even still seek YOUR approval or YOUR advice or YOUR attention. But she probably won't reciprocate. At least not in the foreseeable future.
Take care of yourself and be kind to yourself. This is going to be difficult, but you're going to make it.
For TLR to even have a chance, my W would need to see how I've changed. Is there anything I should do?
Your wife lost her attraction for you. One of the first things I suggest is learning as much as you can about what woman are attracted to. You can learn new attractive behaviors. You can stop doing the behaviors that are unattractive.
Seduction is another area you can do some research in. It is a more indirect way to attract.
What works is counter-intuitive. It is important for you to completely set her free. You focus on your personal growth. Learn new ways to interact with women. Interact with her different.
You have a huge onion to peel. One layer at a time. Take a good hard look at yourself and decide what you would like to change. Make a plan and work toward your new changes.
My W is staying with a friend and has committed 100% to the new relationship.
My W is in the same position. Learn to accept it, because it is what she wants, it will probably seem like she is addicted to OM. Everyone will tell you it won't last, and it might not, but it also might. My W is 7 months deep now. It doesn't matter, ignoring it has been the least painful strategy for me.
This step doesn't address how my W would even notice, based on our situation. When my W stops by to get more stuff from the house, it's usually while I'm at work. When my W needs to contact me, it's via text message. She can't see any posts I make on social media because I blocked her to avoid seeing anything that would upset me. The only potential interaction available is a "follow up" marriage counselling session to see how we're doing in January.
For LRT to even have a chance, my W would need to see how I've changed. Is there anything I should do? I'm aware I have to let her be the one to reach out, but that might never happen.
and yes, I know this is more about becoming a better person and gaining back my self-esteem. I just haven't given up hope.
Change for yoself. She doesn't care about your changes right now. She cares only about herself.
I know there are no guarantees, but Step 3 (Wait and Watch) doesn't answer a question I was hoping the community could. This step doesn't address how my W would even notice, based on our situation. When my W stops by to get more stuff from the house, it's usually while I'm at work. When my W needs to contact me, it's via text message. She can't see any posts I make on social media because I blocked her to avoid seeing anything that would upset me. The only potential interaction available is a "follow up" marriage counseling session to see how we're doing in January.
For TLR to even have a chance, my W would need to see how I've changed. Is there anything I should do? I'm aware I have to let her be the one to reach out, but that might never happen.
and yes, I know this is more about becoming a better person and gaining back my self-esteem. I just haven't given up hope.
Hybrid,
You are going about this wrong.
Any changes you make should be for you - not for the Wayward.
Even if she does notice, chances are it will annoy her - "Why didnt you make these changes 2 years ago " etc etc.
She "may" notice if she wants to cake eat and throw you a few crumbs - But overall, she wont care what you do or the changes you make - her focus is her and OM
I know there are no guarantees, but Step 3 (Wait and Watch) doesn't answer a question I was hoping the community could. This step doesn't address how my W would even notice, based on our situation. When my W stops by to get more stuff from the house, it's usually while I'm at work. When my W needs to contact me, it's via text message. She can't see any posts I make on social media because I blocked her to avoid seeing anything that would upset me. The only potential interaction available is a "follow up" marriage counseling session to see how we're doing in January.
For TLR to even have a chance, my W would need to see how I've changed. Is there anything I should do? I'm aware I have to let her be the one to reach out, but that might never happen.
and yes, I know this is more about becoming a better person and gaining back my self-esteem. I just haven't given up hope.
Hybrid,
You are going about this wrong.
Any changes you make should be for you - not for the Wayward.
Even if she does notice, chances are it will annoy her - "Why didnt you make these changes 2 years ago " etc etc.
She "may" notice if she wants to cake eat and throw you a few crumbs - But overall, she wont care what you do or the changes you make - her focus is her and OM
Good stuff on the "Why didn't you change sooner?" Classic WW response. "It's too little too late" is another mantra. I even heard "You've been awesome lately, but it is too little too late." Notice, recognizes the changes......dismisses them as not being enough.
In my case, she eventually embraced the changes and we R'd, but it doesn't always go that way.
Right now you are in the initial shock and awe stage. There's a lot of trauma there. This happens to other people, or in the movies, but not to me! The problem with the trauma stage is that it often causes us to accept crazy behavior/treatment. I bent over backward to make my H comfortable so he would see my worth (???) and I could make him happy. I let him get away with unacceptable behavior. I allowed him to still work with his OW in the same office - just the two of them - and talk on the phone - for "work," because I bought the sob story and felt bad for him and guilty for not being the wife I should have been. I took the crumbs of love and approval he would throw for me. Major cake-eating for him. He had two women at his beck and call. Make sure you see the emotional manipulation and how well it works for them. Boo hoo I had a hard childhood, covid has been hard, you neglected me, etc. While those things may well be true, we each have a choice on how to handle them. We all have hard things in life, and we each have to decide how we will approach it. Getting an ego boost from having sex with another person is not okay, and that's not your responsibility to solve. Learn from me; do not let the sob story manipulate you into feeling bad for her or asking how high when she tells you to jump. It doesn't work. If it did, I would have the best relationship on the planet.
The absolute positive about all this is if you keep focusing on yourself, GAL, and get IC for your hurt and what you're going through, you can find a strength in yourself you didn't know you had. I am almost a completely different person. Yes, I did those things in the beginning hoping he would notice. It's a bit natural. But it doesn't work and it's not real if that's the purpose. Once you value yourself, you will feel a shift inside. That shift helps you to see how unhealthy the situation is and will help you to set boundaries. It sounds like you are doing well already, just keep going. You will be okay, I promise, even though there is so much pain right now. The first time I began to make a shift I remember thinking about him: Go get her tiger. She can have you.
And to support what the others have said, I too got the "why didn't you do this before?" and "this won't actually last." That's why it has to be for you and not to prove something to them. My husband was actually angry when I did well, i made it harder for him to use me as a justification for his behavior. It made it harder to complain about what a villain I was.
I appreciate everyone's advice. Just hearing from multiple people with similar backgrounds has helped.
I honestly didn't realize how upset and messed up I was over this until this past weekend. I was still living in a fantasy that I could control the situation (exactly what everyone said). I woke up on Sunday around 3am from an emotional nightmare and decided I would do something. I researched all morning looking for the best ways to change things. I was determined to meet up with my W and fix things. The only MF who knows what's going on called me every break he had to talk me down. By the afternoon, I was on the floor, depressed, hadn't eaten anything all day, and I finally broke down... like for real this time. Uncontrollable sobbing.
Since that moment, things have gotten better. For my entire adult life, nothing has pushed me to the point of a real cry. I had forgotten what it was like. I'm definitely still hurt by the entire SITCH but the idea I'm in control over our M is gone. I've even started to remember all the bad in our M. We weren't the perfect couple but I sure did trick myself into believing it.
My W called me yesterday to inform me she was meeting with an attorney to officially file for D. She wanted to discuss how we'd cover the fees and if we could split everything up without an attorney (to save on costs). It was the first call I wasn't on the verge of breaking down. I was calm and collected. I didn't beg or ask how she was doing. I kept my responses short. It was a business transaction.
For those who've suggested, I do have an IC that is amazing. Without her, I wouldn't be where I'm at right now. I see her every week. She's provided advice on the small detailed questions on what to do for specific situations. Her goal is to make sure I come out on the other side a better person (her words).
I know I still have a long road ahead of me but I have a new game plan to GAL. Since our money will be split evenly (state law), I plan to get a personal trainer to push me to get the body I've always wanted.. while I can still afford it! I'm also planning to try out new hobbies like learning the trumpet and going hunting with my friend. I've already made plans for the upcoming holidays to make sure I'm around people who care and support me.
hybrid, not having control over our situations is one of the hardest things to come to grips with. After all, we won our Ws over years ago, our thinking is that we can just do that again. We think we can talk in one afternoon our way out of what it has taken years to act our way into. We think there is a magic bullet out there, something we can say or something that we can do, that will get her to change her mind and come come home. After all, that is Hollywood portrays it right? Affairs, bad behavior, etc........all turned around with some big act or speech and everything turns out okay!
In the real world that is not how it works. In the real work there is nothing we can say and nothing we can do to fix it. All we can do is back off and give time and space to our WAS and let them figure things out. They may stay. They may go. We have no control over that. Luckily you have a friend that talked you off the ledge. Feel free to post here before taking action or saying something that you might later regret. There is a lot of experience at this forum and we can help you.
I am glad you realize that there is a long road ahead. Read other people's posts here. Many are going on 3+ years in their situations. You got BD 2 months ago. That is a drop in the bucket. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Even your WAW that seems to be running head long towards D already, do not be surprised if suddenly she just slows down and coasts. It happens all the time. But even if it doesn't, you have to understand that you are going to be ok no matter what. Your life is not what happens to you, or what other people choose to do, it is how you react to all of that. One of my favorite movies has a line that I love: Get busy living or get busy dying. In the end, those are our only two choices. Dying is easy. All you have to do is sit down and do nothing. Nature will eventually take its course. Living is much harder but the rewards are much better too!
hybrid, you are going to be ok and thrive again, even if it doesn't feel like it at the moment.
Just to update everyone, I met with my W on Saturday to go over finances. My W wanted to talk over the phone but I made it clear anything important like finances should be in person. I wanted to make sure nothing was misinterpreted. Before talking about finances, we walked and talked about how life has been for both of us. Nothing personal, just what we've been up to. It's a little said knowing she isn't getting the things she thought she would from her new situation, but she did say she was happy.
My W told me she would be filing for D after the holidays were over. She wanted to use our joint account to pay for the attorney fees. In our state, everything is split 50/50. She only wanted to split our joint account in the D while not touching each other's savings, retirement, etc. (I have more in savings than she does). It was a nice gesture. I also told her I planned to buy the house from her if we get a D.
She's been going to weekly therapy, which I'm happy about just for her sake. The only thing that bugged me was she mentioned her reality was different from everyone else's. There was no way she could make everyone else understand what she was doing. Her family and some friends are very upset about her choice. She's not getting the support she probably thought she would.
Two things:
1) Why not discuss finances in email so every thing is in writing? Likely her verbal agreement isn't what she'll remain with. Once she talks to a lawyer all that could change. There was no benefit to meeting to discuss, likely you used that as an excuse to see her, even if you won't admit that to yourself.
2) Remember, her attorney will be her attorney. And work for her. Not you. This is why you need to also get an attorney. D is a legal procedure, you need a legal expert to help you navigate it.
hybrid, do not fall for her "gesture". Lots of LBSs have trusted their WAS only to live to regret it.
Hi Hybrid,
Agree 100% with Steve85 above. Something that helped me was this - the d proceeding is business. W is the opposition. Always go with legal counsel, keep everything in writing.
As much as you hope/think/believe they will be reasonable, that is very rarely the case.
My x was my best friend, but would have completely done me in had I agreed to what he offered in the beginning.
Please get your own attorney and get their opinion before agreeing to anything.
And I'm sorry you are here dealing with this.
My W called me yesterday to inform me she was meeting with an attorney to officially file for D. She wanted to discuss how we'd cover the fees and if we could split everything up without an attorney (to save on costs).
These two statements are not congruent.
People can and do divorce without retaining two lawyers. Legal D is a process. Filing out and filing forms.
Not sure if I am too late on advise but my two cents:
Either you both have lawyers representing you. (The expensive path)
Neither of you have a lawyer and you mutually agree to use a mediator.
In your case, you can do some research into mediators that specialize in D. Find three that you like, then send W an email stating that you agree with her that you do not believe attorney should be involved and that you have included the contact info for some mediators. Ask to pick one. If she doesn't like any of three, she can find three different ones and you will pick one.
1) Why not discuss finances in email so every thing is in writing? Likely her verbal agreement isn't what she'll remain with. Once she talks to a lawyer all that could change. There was no benefit to meeting to discuss, likely you used that as an excuse to see her, even if you won't admit that to yourself.
Steve, I'll definitely admit it was partly to see her, which was my bad. It's been difficult to completely cut her off but I know I need to. I definitely didn't feel good after the interaction.
It actually makes sense to have everything in writing, so I'll suggest my W emails me for all future finance discussions.
2) Remember, her attorney will be her attorney. And work for her. Not you. This is why you need to also get an attorney. D is a legal procedure, you need a legal expert to help you navigate it.
I hired an attorney a few days ago. I met with a few to feel them out but the one I chose feels like she'd be worth the money.
As much as you hope/think/believe they will be reasonable, that is very rarely the case.
Hope, you're probably right on this. If my W was being reasonable, she would have put the effort into working on the M first. It's just hard to believe the kind person I used to know no longer exists.
Not sure if I am too late on advise but my two cents:
Either you both have lawyers representing you. (The expensive path)
Neither of you have a lawyer and you mutually agree to use a mediator.
Change, I hear you on this but unfortunately, my W is going down the attorney path. She probably realizes at this point an attorney is the only safe path for her moving forward. I'm waiting to officially pay a retainer until my W files.
Now that you have hired an attorney, you can put SO much off onto them if you have to. Financial negotiations MUST be in writing, because your attorney said so. Blah blah blah.
You wouldn't take a job without signing paperwork regarding the pay, right? So don't negotiate your money, property, investments, or ANYTHING without paperwork. She will take you to the cleaners or her attorney will convincer her to take you to the cleaners.
My ex still thinks she's a decent person for not going after my retirement! On one hand, I am grateful for that one singular thing but on the other hand I lost EVERYTHING except for my few personal belongings, my kid's personal belongings, one TV, and a room full of junk and crap she broke that she didn't want to keep.
Everything is business now. You don't have to be a jerk. You don't have to act like she's your enemy. But she is not your friend. She is more like a salesperson now. You wouldn't just be a jerk to a salesperson, but you don't really need to give a crap about their emotions. You have YOUR OWN to deal with.
There will be plenty of time later to try to be friends or friendly, but during D is not the time to try this. It's nothing personal. Strictly business.
There are times when two people mutually get divorced and it can be all friendly and such. But cheating on your spouse and leaving is not one of those times IMO.
I'm curious how I should handle my W constantly wanting to pick up more of her belongings. She calls about once a week to "pick up stuff" from the house, but it always seems like a small amount of stuff. I'm never really there when she wants to grab stuff (out with friends or at work) but her calling spikes uncomfortable feelings. She ALWAYS sounds perky and happy. This happened again last night and ruined my night.
Should I tell her to email me when she needs something? Should I tell her to get everything out now? I'm unsure what the right move is for setting this boundary... or even what to say.
My W paid the retainer for her attorney so it's only a matter of time before I'm served. I plan to file a petition to reside in our house during the D process, which will give me more power. Until then, I technically don't have any power.
I would email her and let her know that the constant picking up of things has to stop, and that she needs to come get all of her belongings by January 2nd. Let her know you are flexible on working out the arrangements with her.
Or you could just go through and box all of her belongings up. Next time she calls let her know that everything is ready to go, when would she like to come get it?
hybrid, just like wanting to meet for the financial discussion, likely there is a small part of you that likes the interaction. You get to choose when they end!
hybrid, just like wanting to meet for the financial discussion, likely there is a small part of you that likes the interaction. You get to choose when they end!
Steve, you're right. It's like a mind game I'm playing with myself. The idea of wanting to see her in hopes of the fantasy to fix things is the driving force but once my W is there, I realize how hurt I am. After last night, I'm aware I do need to create more distance to heal. Thanks for the advice. I'll let her know via email she needs to pick up any remaining personal items she needs on a day/time I'm not there.
This is what I'm thinking of sending:
Moving forward, all communication between us will be over email. Do not call or text. There is no communication between us that requires an immediate response.
We need to schedule a time, after Christmas, for you to pick up your personal items. I’m flexible on when. Stopping by to pick up a few things here and there is unnecessary.
Seems to the point. I might need to put something in there clarifying what "personal items" are since I won't be there. I also don't want her to think we'll be friends or that I'll help her pack up.
Moving forward, all communication between us will be over email. Do not call or text. There is no communication between us that requires an immediate response.
We need to schedule a time, after Christmas, for you to pick up your personal items. I’m flexible on when. Stopping by to pick up a few things here and there is unnecessary.
Text Her: " I believe it is best that our primary means of communication is through email. I sent you an Email."
I would email her and let her know that the constant picking up of things has to stop, and that she needs to come get all of her belongings by January 2nd. Let her know you are flexible on working out the arrangements with her.
I agree with Steve.
Texting is OK. Most of my text messages to my X were H:"I sent you and email". I sues texts to notify her that I sent email. I asked her to do the same...As I don't always check my email.
I softened your words to sound less controlling. You want to be direct and firm, but not controlling.
In my emails, here is my structure:
Be polite.
Thanks for the suggestions. My W ended up texting me again later today asking to pick up more stuff from the house. I sent her a more polite but firm email explaining how I'd like to move forward with communication and her personal items. She agreed and will be by tonight, while I'm out, to pick up anything she thinks she'll need in the next few months.
Just caught up on your sitch saw something I wanted to discuss you had said
The only thing that bugged me was she mentioned her reality was different from everyone else's. There was no way she could make everyone else understand what she was doing. Her family and some friends are very upset about her choice. She's not getting the support she probably thought she would.
You should not let that bother you, this is a GOOD thing. When everyone is telling someone (hey, wtf are you doing!?) thats good, it can sometimes help bring them back to reality when people reject the stupidity and selfishness of the affair. Dont sweat that her little world is not la-la land for her with everyone hi-5ing her and saying "you go girl" if anything it validates to you that people had respect for you as the H and disagree with her choices that is a good thing.
Try your best not to overthink anything she says or does, this is not your W anymore. What my WW did was beyond imiginaable for our entire family and after 2 months of all of them telling her WTF are you doing! she is barely barely starting to see she mayyyyybe messed up.
Thanks for the suggestions. My W ended up texting me again later today asking to pick up more stuff from the house. I sent her a more polite but firm email explaining how I'd like to move forward with communication and her personal items. She agreed and will be by tonight, while I'm out, to pick up anything she thinks she'll need in the next few months.
Good work. This is the best way to do this. I always ended up responding to all of my ex's texts with emails. They pop up on her phone the same as a text, so she'd get the email and was so annoyed. Mostly because I was in control of the communication.
She kept going on and on about how I "thought I was in control" and that I "wouldn't be in control forever" and whatnot.
I just stayed polite and when things from her got really aggressive I told her I would only communicate via our attorneys.
I hope your sitch doesn't get as toxic as mine was.
Thanks for the suggestions. My W ended up texting me again later today asking to pick up more stuff from the house. I sent her a more polite but firm email explaining how I'd like to move forward with communication and her personal items. She agreed and will be by tonight, while I'm out, to pick up anything she thinks she'll need in the next few months.
Well done, hybrid!
Hi Hybrid,
Ready2Change advised softening your language. To drill-down into that a bit--
Moving forward, all communication between us will be over email. Do not call or text.
Can you see you're trying to tell her what to do, and that's controlling? Telling someone what to do is usually only appropriate when they ask for help or are a subordinate--e.g., parent-child, boss-employee.
I believe it is best that our primary means of communication is through email. I sent you an Email.
Ready2Change's states what he'd like to see. It's great stuff! It's also possible to set firm boundaries without being controlling. My estranged parents used to text me annoying messages. At my IC's prompting, I asked them to please text only for emergencies. After ignoring a few texts, I moved onto blocking them.
Boundaries control you. They don't control other people.
I sent her a more polite but firm email explaining how I'd like to move forward with communication and her personal items. She agreed and will be by tonight, while I'm out, to pick up anything she thinks she'll need in the next few months.
These sound like very positive steps!
Thank everyone for the responses. I think email will give me time to think and respond politely but effectively. I've even reblocked her on social media (yea... i unblocked her at one point). Seeing anything positive on her feed was getting to me.
You should not let that bother you, this is a GOOD thing. When everyone is telling someone (hey, wtf are you doing!?) thats good, it can sometimes help bring them back to reality when people reject the stupidity and selfishness of the affair. Dont sweat that her little world is not la-la land for her with everyone hi-5ing her and saying "you go girl" if anything it validates to you that people had respect for you as the H and disagree with her choices that is a good thing.
Steve_, I definitely know I shouldn't let it bother you. It's just strong empathy I feel for the person I've been with for 9 years. The crazy part is before she chose the AP, she told me who would reject her if she went down this route and she's definitely been on point. As sad as it sounds... as much pain as she has caused... I still want her to be happy. Doesn't sound very "manly" but it's not only the longest relationship but also my first W.
Try your best not to overthink anything she says or does, this is not your W anymore. What my WW did was beyond imiginaable for our entire family and after 2 months of all of them telling her WTF are you doing! she is barely barely starting to see she mayyyyybe messed up.
Steve_, so sorry you're also going through something similar. I'm at least glad/hopeful your W on some level is starting to come to some type of realization. I hope things work out for you.
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Whether it's the holidays or just coming to an internal realization, I'm hearing my IC and brother's thoughts on moving forward. "When you meet your next partner, you'll realize what you didn't have" "You'll be more like yourself around your next partner" "You'll find someone who will enjoy having sex. I'm truly excited for you." "After 9 years out of the loop, dating will be a fun experience". These statements give me hope for the future while removing hope for my current R. I know they're right though. She's a stubborn person
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I'm spending the holidays with my parents. I'm lucky to still have them around during such a horrible time. It pains me to know my W is sitting alone on a friend's couch on her favorite holiday but this was her choice.
I hope everyone has a great holiday. After all of this is over, I hope to give advice and help to the newcomers as y'all have done. I'll be drinking a glass of whiskey tonight for how thankful I am.
I was having a really hard time today. I woke up at 3 am from emotional nightmares (happens often now) and I couldn't fall back asleep. When I got to work, all I could do was read other people's stories to get a little comfort.. but that comfort would not be coming today. Instead, a sheriff arrived and served me in front of everyone at the company. Only my boss at the time knew what I've been going through. I think the worst part is I know this was a choice my W made. She knew I hadn't told anyone at work. She knew our home address. Her attorney knew they could waive being served because they had my attorney's name on file. This was a deliberate act.
The paperwork says my W is "allowing me" to stay at the house during the separation but I have to pay for everything, mortgage included. Everyone warned me, but this does go against everything we agreed on. As upset as I am in this moment, I'm actually grateful I won't have to be married to my W for much longer.
I relate. I was served papers at exchange time in front of the children. deliberate also.
Talk to your medical doctor about sleep aids. I had these pills for a few months that let me sleep 8 hours straight. It was wonderful.
Keep you emotions in check while in the presence of others. Release them when it is safe to do so.
R2C
Hybrid,
whenever someone does this they are hoping to hurt you, to get a reaction out of you. It only works if you let it. I remember a good quote a DB'er gave me a couple years ago from Bruce Lee:
"You will continue to suffer if you have an emotion reaction to everything that is said to you. True power is sitting back and observing everything with logic. If words control you that means everyone else can control you. Breathe and allow things to pass."
You don't become a stoic overnight, so I don't expect you to not feel the pain. But you knew this was possible. Divorce doesn't bring out the best in people. Try to view the rest of this as a business transaction. You broke up with gf's before right? Treat her like that and move forward.
Yeah that was probably deliberate. Just like how my WW set our divorce court date for February 14th. Yeah, on Valentine’s Day.
Time to dig in and DB hard. Get some GAL time in every day. Turn that negative energy into something productive.
Hybrid,
Sorry you were served at work. Totally unnecessary, as you know.
So you know what/who you are dealing with. She's not on your team. You are going to need to remind yourself of that often as this progresses.
Best advice I ever received during this stage:
- Treat D as a business deal. Keep all emotion out of it.
- We cannot empathize with unsafe people.
That second one my IC actually kind of yelled it at me. lol I was having a very hard time seeing my X for what he was - I was focusing more on the pain 'he' must be in.
I think it's easier when we read of other people here - we can see their WAS doing horrible things and wonder why the LBS is still fighting so hard to keep them - or in your case - why they feel sorry for them.
Oddly - My X's BF called me one day and said "X wants a divorce? GIVE IT TO HIM." Even his BF of 40 years saw how disordered X was behaving. It's hard to see because we loved them for so long, but in my case - I chose to love him from a distance, while protecting myself emotionally, financially and physically (stress isn't good for our health).
Stay strong. Fight for yourself. Keep DBing. You won't regret it!
x