Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: Mumin Moving on and growing. #6 - 11/28/20 10:09 PM
Previous thread

Short recap:
Me: 34
STBXW: 30
D:5 D:3
Mini bd: May/June 2019 (I start wondering about OM)
Married: Aug 2019
BD: 6th Dec 2019
I filed for D: 29th March 2020

Now.
-I am living in the house 100%. She is living 50% with OM and other 50 is IHS.
-She will move to an apartment end of January
-I have filed final papers without her knowing

First of, thanks again everyone for your endless knowledge and support!

I messed up with the recent child thing.
Ginger and LH you are of course right. I should have called or texted.
Of course it was unfortunate that the very day before hospital was the first day I decide to neglect W and work consumed my focus. So things were made two-fold for her.

As long as she doesn't ask about them EVERY time or several days in a row I will answer her.
Though if it continues I will rather suggest a FaceTime day per week as some her have instated.
My principle is that if he kids ask they can ALWAYS call her. But I will never suggest it.

Time for me to continue growing.
This whole thing made me very tense as I know I upset her, so there is still WAYS to go.
Especially with NGS.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 11/30/20 12:00 PM
Considering apologizing today, and say it wont happen again.
IHS means a confrontation of some sort is going to happen.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 11/30/20 12:09 PM
You can certainly apologize but I would be careful with it wonít happen again in case it does.
Posted By: job Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 11/30/20 08:56 PM
Mumin,

I know that you are trying to be helpful, but please do not provide info about links and/or references to other sites that are not related to DB. BTW, I have removed several suggested sites that you have mentioned in the last month or so.

Thanks!
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 11/30/20 09:00 PM
Ok I apologize I thought it was only links.
Will read rules again.
Posted By: job Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 11/30/20 09:08 PM
Even though your postings were not direct "links", but they referenced sites and what to look for. There is no need to apologize...we all have either posted links or references sites where you can go look at reading material or watch videos, etc. We use to be able to do these things many, many years ago, but things have changed over the years.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 11/30/20 09:08 PM
Viewed the pinned thread on posting links.
Referencing other books is ok though, right?
Donít really see the difference to a video on site that times with cube.
Shame since some are great.
I will of course abide the order and stop referencing them though. Had no idea you were deleting them laugh
Sorry for previous cases!
Posted By: job Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 11/30/20 09:15 PM
Referencing books is okay a far as I am concerned. We use to have a listing of recommended reading material and it would be great if one a thread was started on this forum to help others. Again, not a problem.
Posted By: JosephS Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 11/30/20 11:23 PM
Mumin, just wanted to reach out and say itís be great to see how far youíve come. Your threads definitely have a different tone and itís very encouraging to see.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/01/20 07:28 AM
That makes me really glad to hear Joseph! Thank your for posting.

Yesterday was basically a normal night.
I did apologize as she was talking about how it felt.
Was considering saying something like ďhow I relate to you has completely changed, thatís probably why I didnít callĒ. But didnít. Said I was at fault and apologized. She seemed to accept the apology and also realized it was twofold (Thursday and Friday).
Posted By: LH19 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/01/20 07:46 AM
M,

No need to explain she knows why you didnít call. Your explanation is manipulation. Hospital visits, kids home sick or in trouble at school, etc she needs to know about.

I agree you are doing well. There will be numbs in the road along the way but you will get there.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/01/20 07:53 AM
Youíre completely right as always LH.
I could sort of feel it was wrong to say so I didnít.
Instead I transitioned to talk about the visit and told her what the nurse and doctor said.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/01/20 12:43 PM
Originally Posted by Mumin
Youíre completely right as always LH.
I could sort of feel it was wrong to say so I didnít.
Instead I transitioned to talk about the visit and told her what the nurse and doctor said.


Well done, Mumin! Keep up the good work.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/06/20 09:24 AM
Hadnít thought about until spiral posted he had an anniversary but today marks a year since the real BD.
And, still another +1,5 more months of IHS.
Iím getting real tired of it. Last night D6 said for the first time it feels strange that Mommy puts me to bed but you are in MBR. (For those who donít know sitch W sleeps in a cottage/shed while she is here)
There still is love in me for her but I believe I am close to as detached as possible while IHS.
Just really want to let ALL thoughts and feelings go and begin my new life.

Iím doing well at work.
Building more and more muscle. Will start intermittent fasting again in March.
House is ready for Christmas (I let W and kids prepare and decorate the tree)
Been very anxious about the roof from time to time but it seems leak is stopped but Iím looking at a renovation with 5 years maximum. Thatís about 25000 USD, or DIY and way cheaper. Right now I have zero savings and credit is maxed out. So Iím reading up and talking to friends about all components of building a house. Iím lucky with competent friends here so feel secure atm. In five years maybe Iíll practically be a carpenter.

Also would love some real snow this year! Snowboarding is my biggest passion.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/09/20 04:49 PM
Hmm
Got an envelope from the courts in the mail today. Addressed to W.
It is probably them asking her to confirm and I happen to know she doesnít have a lot of time to do this.
If she doesnít intervene within a few days we will be divorced.
W wonít be back home till Monday so I am wondering if I should write to her or just put it in her pile of mail.
I know sheíll not look at it for a few weeks if I put it in her pile.

I filed the final papers for legal D without her knowing.
Leaning towards telling her the envelope came and I believe they sent it because I filed.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/09/20 05:15 PM
Talk to your lawyer.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/09/20 05:19 PM
What would be your motive in warning STBXW about the envelope? Presumably, you filed for D because you're ready for that solo journey--not as a "one last chance" (an ultimatum).
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/09/20 05:28 PM
True CW
Not bringing it up at all might come across as passive aggressive.
Also I have gotten some info she might not be feeling to well (from SIL and a mutual friend).
Donít want to tip the scales in terms of anger/depression if you get my point.

Also I wouldnít warn her, just let her know the envelope came and potentially ask if I I should open it for her.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/09/20 05:32 PM
To your point Steve this wouldnít impact anything other than her feelings really.
Financials are signed and I own the house now.
Custody is done.
This is just to confirm the legal D after the obligatory waiting time.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/09/20 05:46 PM
So M is this NGS or are you just trying to do the honorable thing? Thereís a big difference.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/09/20 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Mumin
True CW
Not bringing it up at all might come across as passive aggressive.
Also I have gotten some info she might not be feeling to well (from SIL and a mutual friend).
Donít want to tip the scales in terms of anger/depression if you get my point.

Also I wouldnít warn her, just let her know the envelope came and potentially ask if I I should open it for her.


She isn't your W anymore. This is something a H does for his W. It smacks of NGS.
Posted By: harvey Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/09/20 07:19 PM
I don't see harm either way. Do what feels right--as long as it's for the right reasons.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/09/20 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
So M is this NGS or are you just trying to do the honorable thing? Thereís a big difference.

I guess this is the question I have been asking myself really.
Thanks for the input everyone! Always insightful and I really appreciate it.
Since I want the same outcome no matter, it doesnt really matter if she gets it Monday or now.
So I have decided to tell her on Monday when she is back.
That way not avoiding it and not trying to control, and it does feels like the right thing to do.
Give it to her rather than just put it in her pile of mail.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/09/20 07:43 PM
Hi Mumin,

You have a good head on your shoulders. That is all. Take care!
Posted By: LH19 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/09/20 08:04 PM
M,

When there is no motive behind an action itís never wrong to do what you feel is right.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/26/20 05:21 PM
Will update more but wanted to get your input on something.
Arranged for kids to talk to XW today.
D3 needs to use speakerphone and during the call I heard her speaking to OM.
This sort of messed with my day and I really need to keep active to not think about it.
I will probably ask XW if she intends to introduce Him to the kids.
(She has claimed he doesnít want anything to do with them, though that was a while ago.)
I know I canít do anything about it. But I can be a better father if I know.
Also now I feel like Iím lying to them from time to time.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/26/20 05:28 PM
Mumin, seems like you got a handle on this. What specifically were you wanting input on?
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/26/20 06:07 PM
Primary input would be whether anyone thinks I shouldnít do it.
But any input on what to say or not is of course also appreciated.

Iím thinking of just asking her face to face when we meet on Monday.
No blame, just say I will be a better father if I know.

If itís a message probably the same style.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/26/20 06:37 PM
I guess Iím trying to understand how it will make you a better father?
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/26/20 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
I guess Iím trying to understand how it will make you a better father?



My question exactly.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/26/20 07:29 PM
It seems she is introducing him (see you soon was said on the call).
If she isnít she is being unfair and stupid (towards the children).
If she does want to introduce him Iím better off knowing since I can be ready for questions and I wonít need to handle unveils (like the one today) in front of the kids.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/26/20 09:08 PM
M,

Iím really confused. It almost seems like you need to satisfy your own curiosity.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/26/20 11:01 PM
Mumin, I know it [censored]. This is one of the things most LBSs struggle with related to OPs in their sitches. I feel for you man. And I know if I were you I'd be tempted to take action as well. But you need to try to focus on what you can control. And her and who she brings into your kids 'lives isn't it. I think you're trying to find a way to control what you do not have the power to control.

If you do bring it up be prepared for defensiveness and anger. It rarely goes the way we think it will when we are considering the action. And it likely will change nothing.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/27/20 02:27 PM
Im not going to say that what i did was right, but i just ignore the existence of ow.
I have no interest in getting acquainted with my H secretary, as that is what she is at work. And if it ever came uo thats exactly what i would say. I have high standards and im a bit picky about people i let into my life.

When it comes to kids, honestly mine still think that they are friends and that ow is not an obstacle for H to come
Home, they are still hopeful. They occasionally mention her, often funny or not so situations. Like H telling her off for something, but she is very much irrelevant in their lives, just there.

If i was you, i wouldnt ask anything. Just crack on with your life, if the questions come just be honest. I just say to mine that H wants to live with her and thats how it is and yes its really sad for them that we are no longer a family. Thats it.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 12/27/20 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by Gigi123
Im not going to say that what i did was right, but i just ignore the existence of ow.
I have no interest in getting acquainted with my H secretary, as that is what she is at work. And if it ever came uo thats exactly what i would say. I have high standards and im a bit picky about people i let into my life.


Not a thing wrong with that! Good for you. Im not a fan of homewreckers in general so I don't blame you.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/02/21 06:00 PM
Thanks for all the good advice, LH Steve Gigi, much appreciated!
I ended up not saying anything at all.

Just came home after a few days with my parents and New Years with my brother.
Apparently XW and D3 went and met OM today.
I left the room as soon as I heard and later told W I donít want to talk to her right now. Iím furious atm.
Will go for a walk. Talk to her tonight.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/04/21 09:50 AM
After she put the kids to bed I asked "do you understand while Im angry?"
She understood. Said sorry. etc
She doesnt have a plan at all, as expected.
D6 will also meet OM some day. He is not moving in and kids dont know XW and OM are a couple.
"He is just a friend they meet sometimes"
Im disgusted by her. I feel as if she and OM will CONTAMINATE my children.
I will be their rock.

This coming moth is when we FINALLY physically separate.
It will be so good mentally for me.
I might need some support from you guys now and then. XW moves to apt end of Jan.
2021, time to turn the page!
Happy New Years everyone! Whish you a happy year filled with TRUE love!
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/04/21 10:28 AM
Hey Mumin, I feel your pain my friend, the thought of someone else is your kids lives truly [censored]. I am just at the beginning of this looking like a thing too. Who would want someone in their childrenís lives who holds the values of a home wrecker.

But you know what Mumin, as you alluded to, the best revenge is to just be the absolute best dad possible. Kids arenít stupid, they will know whatís what.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/04/21 10:56 AM
I know how rubbish it is. The way i see it. I dont like it, i dont want to know her, i would absolutely prefer for my kids not to know her. They will know the truth one day, as in they will comprehend fully.

But H lives with OW now and whilst its a rental and i personally think it wont last, my priority is the kids. Which means that all i want is for H and OW to treat my boys well. How horrible would it be if your W OM was horrible to the kids for example, but you still dont have a choice but for them to go and spend time with them?!

Ill be honest boys rarely mention OW, they are very much into dad and just want his attention.

There will be many people in your childrens lives who will be temporary, teachers, friends, classmates, possible
This OM or another. You and the closest family will however always be there and will always be the most important people in their lives. Just hope that all the temporary people in their lives are nice to them.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/04/21 05:50 PM
I can only imagine the pain and frustration you are experiencing as a result of your W's actions. I will tell you from the viewpoint of the wayward W that she feels she doesn't have to give you an account for her how she lives her life......which includes parenting. She feels every time you confront her with something concerning her and the children, it's none of your business (to be frank). I empathize with you. I was a very close observer when one of my adult children experienced the same situation where the OM was introduced three days after the H was kicked out. I saw the raw pain it caused. I saw my grandchildren in a state of hurt, fear, and confusion b/c they were given no time to even realize their parents had split, until the OM was moving into their home. Here's the thing, unless the law is broken or child services has a legit reason to step in, there's really very little you can do directly to prevent your XW from doing anything she wants to do.

Will she be selfish? Of course! She's a WW and nothing has changed.
Will she be unfair to the children? Of course! She's a WW and her mindset has not changed.
Will it do any good to point out the mistakes she makes with the children, or how they are being affecting? Absolutely not! Look, she doesn't care how you (or the kids) really feel about any of this. Oh, she may say something to "sound" as if it's for the best, but bottom line.........it's still all about her.

I think this will be harder for you than anything you've had previously. No matter how much you protest, she is still wayward and won't win the best mother of the year award. She won't even take simple, rational steps that requires her to be honest with her children, or to put their mental health above her own desires. And as far as you are feeling she should have discussed things with you so you'd be aware and know how to answer any questions that may arise.........let it go. I'm not saying you are being totally unreasonable, but she doesn't feel she has to comply.

It's very, very tough. You can't make her be the mother you want for your children. She'll do her thing, and you'll have to do yours. It's not fair to the kids, but there's nothing you can do but focus on your own parenting. I really understand how it feels when the kids ask questions about the other parent and the affair person. My grandchildren would ask me, and I was determined I would not talk bad about their other parent, but neither was I going to lie. It's hard to answer their questions, especially with very young children. Don't make excuses for their mother's actions, and be honest with your children. Try your best to keep it age appropriate. One more thing......it's okay to answer with "I don't know".

((hugs))
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/04/21 08:35 PM
Hey Mumin,

Sorry to hear that. I know it's tough but you need to get your mojo back.

Everyone knows that divorces involve OM/OW and that one day your kids will be introduced to a new bf/gf. Accept and focus on what you can control.

Focus on being an attractive and successful man who women want and your mental space will be occuppied with something much much better.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/05/21 07:28 PM
Mumin,

Originally Posted by Mumin
She doesnt have a plan at all, as expected.
D6 will also meet OM some day. He is not moving in and kids dont know XW and OM are a couple.
"He is just a friend they meet sometimes"
Im disgusted by her. I feel as if she and OM will CONTAMINATE my children.
I will be their rock.

You've commented on my thread several times, so you know I'm going through the same thing right now in terms of the young children and OM (in my case OM2). My W moved out and quickly moved in OM2 (or at least he stays overnight with them and they eat breakfast together, which is essentially the same thing). I know the feeling, it [censored]. Not that we wanted the separation/D either, but you'd hope your STBX would at least wait a reasonable amount of time and give their kids' parent a heads up so that it could be dealt with more appropriately in terms of the children. I don't have much advice for the situation other than to point out what every lawyer I consulted with as well as several board members said - there's nothing we can do about it - we just have to focus on being that rock for our kids.

sandi2's comment to you was outstanding - it made me think it was written for me as well. You have great support here...hang in there!

Originally Posted by Mumin
This coming moth is when we FINALLY physically separate.
It will be so good mentally for me.
I might need some support from you guys now and then. XW moves to apt end of Jan.
2021, time to turn the page!
Happy New Years everyone! Whish you a happy year filled with TRUE love!

IHS is tough. I was constantly walking on eggshells and reminded of the affair/sitch. You're absolutely right you'll get some relief when XW moves out.

Here's to 2021!
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/06/21 03:37 PM
As always, thank you Only, Ginger, LH, Sandi, Ovr, BL
Advice and just the general consideration from all of you is SO VERY MUCH appreciated!

Having a great week with the kids, barbecue, puzzles, reading a lot, trying to engage them in cooking etc.
One of my goals this year is to work out at least 200 times.

So to your input. It really helps me to read all your experiences and viewpoints. All the pain caused by WAS and OP's in the world is crazy! So many ppl who need to understand some traditional values and their responsibility as a parent.
I realized a few days ago that XW was having second thoughts about the apartment (and more?) just two months ago and now she introduced OM. That's so broken and irresponsible behavior! It really pains me to think about it but if there is one thing I've learned from this whole journey it is to see the things I can not control.

On my part I have let it go for now. I am glad I said something but I think I could have been harder on her since I actually did say something. Given some time and perspective I am really glad to see the kids happy about "moms new apartment" and like you Gigi I just try to ignore the part about OM. I talk to them one on one to make sure they are alright and also tell them how I feel and that it is ok to feel sad however atm they seem real happy about it. That's what matters the most!
As you mentioned Sandi, I never bad mouth XW in front of the kids however, there may come a time when they are older when I explain more. Who knows.

I might talk more about it again with XW but I know I cant impact it so probably not. My main focus atm is the physical separation and make sure it goes smooth for me and the kids.


Quote
Focus on being an attractive and successful man who women want and your mental space will be occuppied with something much much better.

This time will also come. I think. I keep working out and reading, try to talk more to women (though interaction is minimal in corona-times), look better in general (clothes, grooming etc) but all of it is for me. I want to to make it routine. I want to be a better me. Not just now. Forever.
I am not really interested in women at all atm.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/06/21 03:49 PM
Good stuff Mummin. You are getting it brother.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/06/21 09:01 PM
Mumin

I think you are doing great! And you will be even better when she moves out. Honestly the best think that happened was when i asked him to leave and that was 2 months in. There were evening when i missed him or i think interaction woth an adult more so.
In terms of kids, they will ask questions as things unravel, mine are 7 and 5 and eldest does ask a lot of questions and has said openly that what H did wasn't fair and it wasnt best for everyone ( thats why H told him) that everyone will be happier this way. He openly says it was the wrong decision that his dad made and it was selfish. I mean my S7 is very profound for his age. I like you never badmouth H, however i have to be honest and say that not all decisions adults make are the right ones. They adored H and i dont want them to think he can do no wrong, they will be disappointed a hundred times over!

Hand in there and look after yourself!
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/06/21 11:13 PM
Thanks gigi and LH!!
Yes they are so much smarter and stronger (thankfully) than one thinks.
We must support them no matter what!
My kids believe it is a joint thing. ďwe fell out of loveĒ. Eventually they will find out it was moms decision.
I have however told them I wish it didnít have to be this way and that I will miss them greatly.
To be clear I tone those things down A LOT though, to be certain they donít blame themselves in any way.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/07/21 10:13 AM
Im a firm believer in telling the truth, age appropriate of course. I have told the boys that dad decided not to live with me anymore, that i wished it wasnt like this for them. I have also explained that he will always be their dad and sometimes these things happen between adults.

I didnt feel the whole falling out of love thing could be understood by them really. They think if you kissed someone you have to marry them smile
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/07/21 10:16 AM
Haha.
Yeah I might add to the story after physical separation.
Weíll see. Itís been important to keep low conflict during this IHS.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/07/21 12:24 PM
Mumin, no need to get too specific with the girls. The truth has a way of being revealed. Be the best dad that you can be, and one day they will look back and understand what really happened and who the catalyst was. While pointing the finger at your WAW would feel good, you shouldn't involve children in adult things. They way you've handled it with them is perfect.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/07/21 03:14 PM
I agree with you Steve, i wouldnt bring this subject up at all with the kids. I only ever answer their questions, and sometimes an i dont know answer is just not enough for them. So i would always just look at the situation in front of me.

Posted By: 97Hope Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/17/21 08:09 PM
Hi Mumin!!

I just caught up on your sitch! How are you? Do you have a date for the move out?

It's interesting to read a year of someone's life and see how far they have come. I've re-read my own sitch a few times during the past 2 years and I can learn something about myself - and where people have made suggestions that I didn't follow or followed and worked that I had forgotten about.

The only thing that I can see is your desire to have conversations about what is best for the kids with your XW. Unfortunately, like Sandi has explained - she has her own opinion of what's ok for your kids and unless she is exposing them to a degree that would require legal intervention, there's nothing you can do.

I would only add that you continue to post here, talk to IC or a trusted friend and get it out of your system. Other than that, communicate with XW only as absolutely necessary. Will help with final phases of detachment.

Happy (late) New Year!

Stay strong!
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/17/21 08:59 PM
Thank you for popping by Hope and thanks for all input guys!
I haven't talked much with XW lately. I have spent a week skiing and snowboarding with my brother his GF and some friends. Really awesome!

To your post Hope, XW is moving out in two weeks. Looking forward to February!
I haven't said anything more about kids and don't plan to say much either. As you say she has her own opinion and is entitled to it.

Though one things has been on my mind recently. We need to agree on how to handle clothes, toys and thing that kids like to bring with them when "moving".
I will suggest to have two of most things but for instance a snowboard isnt something you get two of. (Yes my little daughters snowboard, Im so friggin proud!!) Hence some things will need to travel between homes in a bag. My brothers GF said she used to take a huge hockey trunk filled with clothes every week when she was a teenager...
Will also talk to D6 about this. I want to make sure she feels comfortable and she shouldn't have to drag a bag around at school. At least not as a 6 year old. Though I'd personally prefer not to exchange these things with XW every week.
Might talk to the school and see if they can help.
Any tips/suggestions/pointers here is, as always, appreciated!

Not sure I mentioned but I am officially D'd now. Doesn't change anything really but kind of a mild freeing feeling.
XW hasn't mentioned it and neither have I.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/17/21 09:09 PM
Hey Mumin, glad you had a nice time at the snow. My brother's little boys are expert skiers already, its very cool that your D's are already into it as well.

Re toys and clothes, etc. When my STBXW moved out we just split everything in half and topped up where necessary. Kids have so many toys and books these days that there was plenty to go to each house. The clothes seem to make a back and forward over the weeks and when we buy new clothes, the cost is shared. Things like goggles for swimming just come in the schoolbag on the days needed, doesn't seem to make sense to get two of these sort of things when with a bit of cooperation they can be shared. We do this with his bike, helmet, bodyboard, things like that.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/17/21 09:18 PM
Hi Mumin,

Like OnlyBent, my ex-wife and I usually double-up. It's okay if they don't have the same toys and sports gear and book series at both homes. Magic Treehouse at one home, Last Kids on Earth at the other. There have been exceptions--for toys, the kids could take one item over when that was an issue; for school supplies, buying one copy and putting it in the backpack worked; for laptops, occasionally one breaks down and the other parent "lends" computer equipment for a short period of time (1-2 weeks).

I can't recall any issues rising to the level of needing an "agreement", except when all the ice packs or long pants or new shirts end up at one house! We crossed that bridge when it happened.

Congratulations on completing the divorce, and glad you're looking forward to February!
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/17/21 09:23 PM
Thanks OB! I hope to see a similar setup for us.
We just havent hade the conversation yet and I hadn't thought that much about it.
My girls can be a bit specific about their clothes from time to time so I'm sure we will "send" clothes. Not sure about the costs though.
(I almost want to kill myself (or society) when six year old says my clothes are ugly, but that's another conversation.)

Do you do some practical "extra" runs with things/clothes back and forth or how do you move things around?
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/17/21 09:28 PM
Thanks CW!
We wont need an actual agreement and I am sure thing will unfold as we go.
My main concern is that the kids feel comfortable but I have also learned that XW tends to assume things and typically we dont have the same idea.
I will probably suggest we share costs for outerwear, shoes, equipment etc. Clothes will be mostly paid for by oneself.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/17/21 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by Mumin
Do you do some practical "extra" runs with things/clothes back and forth or how do you move things around?

No, and this isn't part of the shared experience I talk to other single parents near me about. Each home is self-sufficient. The closest is when one house gets all the shorts vs. long pants, new vs. old clothes, ice packs, or thermoses. The parent on the lacking side says something, and it's fixed at the next hand-off. Rarely some school work is forgotten and the parent with custody has to make an extra trip to pick it up.

Originally Posted by Mumin
I will probably suggest we share costs for outerwear, shoes, equipment etc. Clothes will be mostly paid for by oneself.

I could see coordinating on those. We don't do so. When my S's or D's shoes look worn out enough, either she or I buy new ones. Sometimes I buy them. Sometimes she buys them.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/17/21 09:42 PM
Originally Posted by Mumin
Do you do some practical "extra" runs with things/clothes back and forth or how do you move things around?


Sometimes this does happen with us Mumin. I try to keep this to a minimum but sometimes it can't be avoided. If his bike is at my house and she wants to take him to the bike park, she would swing by and pick it up or I will drop it off. We live about a 5 min walk away from each other so it isn't difficult and if its truly for my S4 then I don't mind.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/17/21 10:05 PM
Congrats on D! In many minds its some sort of finality, but it is t really just a technicality.

At the moment (if we dont end up in court) we have one exchange in the week, so we dont see each other as it happens at school and one over the weekend where we do see each other and H comes ti pick the boys up. Everything that the boys had at home -stayed at home. H bought extra stuff for them and generally speaking we try and return some of the clothes to the home where it belongs. There was one occasion where literally all trousers ended up at h house, so i had to swing by and collect, otherwise no problems. Mine are really into their scooters, but they always stay at our home.
Today was even odder, only s 5 went with H and they took some card games and s7 stayed home as he was unwell.
I think some if these things happen naturally, sotting down and pre planning how this works is perhaps putting to much emphasis on this. Obv if you run into issues then have the convo.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/18/21 08:26 AM
Thank for adding Gigi! Thanks everyone for your perspective!
I thought about this last night and after your help realized I should just tell her what I prefer.
If she suggests something else we might need to discuss.

Thanks everyone! Now off to digital work!
My body is sore from really heavy gym sessions this weekend.
Try to eat 80-100g (about 3oz) of pure protein every day.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/22/21 02:00 PM
So another question for perspective.
D3 has started to name OM a lot more when talking.
Basically included him in her family, as she sees it. (not as a father or boyfriend to XW though)
This is just part of the process, though really isn't all that simple to take in yet.
During one of these very happy babble talks she all of a sudden asked me if I like OM.

I try to be very attentive and really BE with my children during my time with them, but this one really hit me.
I totally neglected the question and just said "I love you". I didn't know what to say.
After I realized I couldn't have done the same thing if it was D6 and there may come a time when they want to talk about him and XW.
It's not like I can say I hate him because that puts the kids in the middle.
What would you guys have said?
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/22/21 02:04 PM
Wow, sorry Mumin. I know that has to be tough. I feel for you. I'll let others that have been through it weigh in here, but just wanted to lend you some support here. I am sure once you have moved on and are living your best life post D, things will get easier for you.

You sound like an awesome dad though! Keep up the good work.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/22/21 02:15 PM
M,

I would say something like:
I am still sorting out my feelings towards OM.

You are not lying and shouldn't prejudice their view.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/22/21 07:33 PM
Thanks for the support and input Steve and LH!
Yeah it isnt easy to just accept it but I brush it off quickly in 95% of cases.
Tomorrow is our "going though everything in the house"-day and in a week she is finally moving.

You suggestion is very good LH, it hints that I actually have feeling but they are not ready to be shared.
I have been thinking an honest "I'm not sure. I dont know him".
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/22/21 07:38 PM
I would say ď all that is important is that he/ she is good to youĒ

Iíve used this one and it worked well
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/22/21 09:26 PM
Originally Posted by Mumin
It's not like I can say I hate him because that puts the kids in the middle.


Do you hate him Mumin? If so, why?
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/22/21 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by Mumin
I have been thinking an honest "I'm not sure. I dont know him".


I was thinking an upbeat "I've never met OM, so I'm not sure"
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/22/21 10:34 PM
Loathe, hate, despise whatever the word. Sure donít like him.
Why I donít like him should be obvious.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/22/21 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by Mumin
Why I donít like him should be obvious.


It's not, so enlighten us (I haven't read your full sitch yet, so apologies if he was your best friend or something like that and I've missed that),
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/22/21 11:13 PM
Steeling this from hope:
We are dealing with people who are willing to destroy families, spend tens of thousands of dollars, risk the loss of friends, reputation etc. - all to fill the void in their lives. All to "feel" better. Caring nothing for the devastation they leave in the wake.
I donít like those kind of ppl. I donít like my XW anymore either.

But no need to dig there. I used to obsess as much about him as XW in the beginning but I am past that. This was about me talking to my kids and not putting them in the middle.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/22/21 11:26 PM
The reason I asked is because I feel that same feeling towards my STBXW's OM. But then I asked myself why do I hate him?

I don't know him as a person, but I do think I know his values. He is a guy, who had just recently D'd himself, with an S about the same age as mine, who willingly pursued something with a woman who was still living with her S and H, who was trying his hardest to work on his M and keep his family together. He bought what my STBXW was telling him and even got involved by slinging mud about me.

But...does that mean I should hate him or loathe him? I am a very kind and compassionate person, I don't think I've ever really hated someone that much. From what I know about him, I think he is a pretty low person, whom probably doesn't have much compassion or empathy. Do I want my S near the person who aided in tearing apart his family, absolutely not, but not sure if I feel hate either.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/22/21 11:35 PM
I get that OB. I am sorry for you sitch!
Things will get easier.

Not sure I hate OM either, never met him.
But I know I donít like him and what he stands for and then D3 asked about it.

Hang in ther OB and thanks for posting!
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/22/21 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by Mumin
Steeling this from hope:
We are dealing with people who are willing to destroy families, spend tens of thousands of dollars, risk the loss of friends, reputation etc. - all to fill the void in their lives. All to "feel" better. Caring nothing for the devastation they leave in the wake.
I donít like those kind of ppl. I donít like my XW anymore either.

But no need to dig there. I used to obsess as much about him as XW in the beginning but I am past that. This was about me talking to my kids and not putting them in the middle.



My ex married his OW. Began cheating with her while I was pregnant without first and only baby. 13 years sheís been around and they will be married 10 years in April. Iím one of the few on the boards who had to experience that one! I used to beat to death the fact that she must be an awful person to insert herself in a marriage where there is a baby on the way. Truth be told, I donít hate her. I hate what she did . But she treats my daughter well. All that really matters.

When my D was 3 she overheard me talking on the phone and I said something along the lines that I didnít like OW. She went to her dads house for a weekend and she told OW she didnít like her because her mommy doesnít doesnít like her. It was a moment where I realized my feelings need to be totally left out else time with her dad wonít be good and healthy.

Trust me, I understand how painful it could be for you. But this is where you throw yourself in front of a bus for the peace of your child
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/22/21 11:40 PM
Omg ginger, that sounds horrible!
Exactly Right on doing whatís best for the child.
Iím really glad I didnít say anything stupid/mean and hope I wonít.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/23/21 12:10 AM
Thanks for adding that Ginger, I really admire your strength and integrity (amongst many other great qualities no doubt).
Posted By: dunnm Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/23/21 12:38 AM
Slightly different situation as my kids were 18+ at the time so it was easy (and reasonable?) not to entertain discussion of OM.

I am now divorced ( more than happy in a new relationship). Last I heard OM still with his wife, happy who knows?

OM never made any vows to me but of course I fuchin hate him, I dont buy in to all this new age c*** of not hating.

Every chance though I dont hate him as much as my exW does?

Perhaps I am misinterpreting what hate is because I don't really think of him much but know I wouldn't p*** on him if he was on fire.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/23/21 10:36 PM
Oh Mumin

I had that question. No emotions, i just said. I dont know her. They persisted a bit and said but you know that she works with daddy etc. I just said i know of her of course, but i have never met her personally. Honestly it wasnt a big deal. One thing my kids are very clear on that she isnt part of our family. I never said anything, its how they see things.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/23/21 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by dunnm
I am now divorced ( more than happy in a new relationship).


Maybe its just me, but people who are more than happy don't carry such hate in their hearts.

Originally Posted by dunnm
OM never made any vows to me but of course I fuchin hate him, I dont buy in to all this new age c*** of not hating.


Its not new age mate, its just that if you're putting energy into hating someone, that is energy that could be spent elsewhere, why waste it on them. Indifference is much more effective.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/23/21 11:57 PM
I haven't hated my ex-wife's partners. One took my S fishing, another took my D to her first volleyball game. It's probably easier for us, though, since they played no role in the downfall of our marriage. I imagine it would be harder to let go of anger if you felt OM was the reason your marriage ended.
Posted By: 97Hope Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/24/21 03:47 AM
I'm with dunnm here. I would probably not only not wee on her, but I 'might' throw a little diesel on it ; )

It all comes down to where you are in the process, timing, if they were the OW/OM and so many things.

You feel how you feel about a person. Feelings change over time. And feelings follow what we think. We think therefore we are and all that jazz.

Yes, hatred can eat one up holding on to it, but it's an honest emotion towards a person who contributed to the death of a M.

I think forcing an emotion can be worse than accepting what you feel and working through it.

Ginger is a great example of working through those emotions - what a nightmare - and where you want to end up. Being able to look at the bigger picture and what's important. The peace and emotional stability we give to our kids.

Yes, forgiveness is freedom and hate takes energy but it's all a process. It can't be forced or coerced because you want it. There are plenty of DBers here who have proven that it's an obtainable goal - and worth the work.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/24/21 07:23 AM
I dont hate ow! I dont know her. I would never want to get to know her, she isnt the person of high values or intellectual abilities. We all make choices, she made hers. Im a true believer that the universe creates balance and we all have to take responsibility for our actions one way or another.

So im leaving this to the universe to deal with
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/25/21 06:16 PM
Typing on phone.
On Saturday me and XW went through all assets in the whole house together. (Kids at my brothers)
It was the last and final step to her moving out.
It went well, faster than I thought and I got more things but will prob need to pay a small sum to her.
It was tough for both of us but I managed to focus except once when I started to cry a bit (went through old photos and a pic of daughters together in the house two years ago got me) and I just left for a while.
Drank some water, took three deep breaths and got back to it.
She cried like 5 times. Real tears.

Interesting quotes:
W - ďI donít think we realized what we hadĒ
I said, No we didnít.

W - ďThey should tell ppl when applying for divorce to try to split all assets.Ē
I paused for a while and said, Yeah they should.
Didnít really initiate or ask anything except when she was crying. Everything else was business.

On Saturday she is moving, I will take the kids to my sisters that day and on Sunday they will be moving as well.
They will spend all of next week at her new apt.
The only thing Iím really hoping for is that she wait with inviting OM till kids get accustomed.
I can tell on D6 she is a bit nervous.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/25/21 07:54 PM
I can understand that would have been a tough process to go through M, and well done on having a way to control those emotions when they came out.

Hope Saturday isnít too hard for you, I think itís good that youíll be at your sisters and have things to keep you busy.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/25/21 08:13 PM
I bet it was hard going through all the items and photos. It sounds like you handled the situation well.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/25/21 08:37 PM
Two stars for validations guys! And thanks! It really does make one feel "seen" even online.
It WAS a hard day but it had to be done.

What got me was that I found pile of photos I hadn't seen (or so I thought) so I wanted to browse through and after 3-4 photos I realize its a collage of her Instagram photos that she had printed ~3 years ago. About a year ago she started editing away all of her past life and there were a bunch of photos of the kids, house, me etc that she now has deleted or hidden. Then came the photo of my daughters and I just broke. They looked so happy and innocent and now they are helpless in this situation and smack in middle of everything.
Posted By: neffer Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/25/21 11:19 PM
Be proud of your family Mumin. Be proud of that past.

Face the future now. You have your girls there. They see what you are: the lighthouse. Keep shining bright.

Stand proud there man, there is dignity everywhere

Sending you a big hug

Respect!

((((M))))
Posted By: 97Hope Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/25/21 11:19 PM
I'm so sorry, Mumin. It totally s*cks to see your kids in the middle. Focus on being their rock. You did a good job handling the sorting and I agree, it's good you have a place to go.

Keep moving forward.

x
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/26/21 09:11 AM
Thanks for the support and input the last few days Ginger, CW, Gigi, dun Hope, OB and neffer (nice to see you back here!). As always highly appreciated.

Will be killing it at work this week (today I have 8 meetings and two of them are longer than an hour...) and hitting the gym tonight. Last week with W in the house but I wont be trying to spend more time together.
I told her to pick out two boxes of kids stuff for her apt before Thursday and I will look through before the move, interesting to see if she does it.

Been listening to a short version of the four agreements. Very interesting!
I am internally battling a bit to not go back to old habits.
Next week will be a test as it is my first week completely alone.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/26/21 12:06 PM
Quote
I am internally battling a bit to not go back to old habits.


Did they work for you?
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/26/21 05:07 PM
I like a clean house, I like looking good etc but habits are habits and a lot comes down to inner beliefs/assumptions about reality and those arenít easily changed.
IHS period has helped me keep the new habits. Living alone is something different.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/26/21 08:33 PM
Quote
Quote
Quote
I am internally battling a bit to not go back to old habits.


Did they work for you?


Quote
I like a clean house, I like looking good etc but habits are habits and a lot comes down to inner beliefs/assumptions about reality and those arenít easily changed.
IHS period has helped me keep the new habits. Living alone is something different.



Are you talking about behavior patterns or how you think? Dare I suggest your new habits were kept during IHS b/c deep down you wanted those improvements to have a positive influence in persuading your W not to give up on you?

I think for some of us, it's more difficult to adhere to self improvement when nobody is around to evaluate us. Then again, I may have no idea what you mean in your statement.

((hugs))
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/27/21 08:23 AM
Itís definitely BoTH my behavior and how I think.

Not sure about the persuading, need to think about that one. But definitely her being there had an impact and initially it was the whole MOAFWL that drove me.
I have however keep up with most habits during the weeks she wasnít at home.
Living completely alone is another story though.
I have an eye on myself laugh.
Thanks for checking Sandi!
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/27/21 09:24 AM
I think you are going to find yourself so much happier without her being there at all
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/27/21 09:22 PM
Thanks Ginger! I totally agree.

So tonight, before going to bed, XW seemed like she wanted to talk to me.
Kept staying in the same room and initiating. I think it is because its her last night in the house.
Eventually, she asked if I would like to come by her and the kids next week.
I didnt reply immediately and she filled in "you dont have to answer now, and its up to you".
I haven't really though about it beforehand but replied:
"Ok, I will think about if and when. But I nonetheless don't think it is a good idea this early on."

Thoughts?

I will most likely say no, and my first feeling is that I dont want to go there at all. Especially if OM stays there from time to time.
Then again having the option to meet my kids more than 50%, long-term, is not necessarily a door I want to close.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/27/21 09:25 PM
Think itís a bad idea M.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/27/21 09:41 PM
So do I LH, just want to think it through since it sets an example for the future.
Care to elaborate why YOU think itís bad?
Posted By: LH19 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/27/21 09:59 PM
Let me preface that if itís a one time thing just to see where they are living thatís ok. If itís a every week thing I think itís a bad idea.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/28/21 06:10 PM
Make other plans. First instinct was right IMO.

I think she's using you to ease her own transition, could be wrong but I see a lot more downside than upside
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/28/21 10:51 PM
She's just trying to keep that back burner on low........just in case she needs you for something.

Don't do it. Don't do that to yourself, and you know what I'm talking about! Don't use the kids as your excuse, either.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/31/21 03:53 PM
Hey Everyone!
Thanks for the input on visits at XWs.
I havenít brought it up more and I will NOT be going there. At least not within the near future.
It didnít help me and it doesnít help my kids. ( I believe they need time to fully understand their new day to day).

So, the kids just left for the first time.
Sure is quiet here now.
Going to GAL as much as possible this week. Feeling empty now.
Posted By: BenB Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/31/21 04:04 PM
Hang in there Mumin, the first two weeks after my ex moved out were the worst for me. After that, I started to see the benefits. That's when the fun began
Posted By: Mumin Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/31/21 04:25 PM
Thanks Ben!
Encouragement and support always helps!

Started by ordering new books for the kids, will go shopping for me now.
Then food, work, beer and games/movie tonight.
Posted By: job Re: Moving on and growing. #6 - 01/31/21 04:58 PM
New Thread:

She's OUT! #7
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