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Best Friend for 27 years in MLC

Posted By: NickWing

Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/28/20 03:32 PM

Bomb dropped in June, I itially I thought WAW. Beg, plead, apologize. Soon find DBDR, start in earnest. Seem to have some progress, then progress stops. Get some DB Coaching, maybe MLC, maybe depression. Maybe affair? Me-Impossible!

W goes to nyc to see family and get space, however spends most time in friends vacant Manhattan apartment.

Comes back, now in separate br, and donít come into bathroom when Iím in it, makes her uncomfortable. I agree no pressure space.

Well 2 days later comes home from work at about 8 pm, needs bubble bath to de stress. Oh, and H, can you fix tub hot water not working. Goes in bath, candles wine, soft music. Well guess what, Iím in the room next door and she has om on speakerphone!! 90 minutes!!

Comes out I say I know whatís going on. Her answer, What did you hear? Oh, thatís nothing, thatís my confidant. What! You have a confidant I donít know about for 27 years?

Get DB coaching, give her the I know youíre having an affair, your a big girl, etc. speech only thing that seems to penetrate fog is telling her sheís going to lose daughterís respect. Gaslight, Iím crazy, only daughter would think sheís have affair is if I (H) planted it.

Kids are clueless, they donít see mom ghosting out all dressed up tons of perfume. Smells and looks good.

Wife ghost 6 to 8 hours four days in a row. Kids car breaks down, so one car for 3 people cuz mommy is nowhere to be found. Wife comes in about 1030 pm, tells d21 oh i can drive you! Really, youíre Mia but now you can help! I was drinking watching football, I tell W we donít need you, bad argument, D21 crying cuz Iím attacking mommy. (If she only knew) D21 leaves sobbing, Me and wife still going at it.

I tell her youíre having MLC, you need help, You have a boyfriend and Iím not telling, Iím the only one looking out for you. She denies affair, a blantant easily disproven lie straight to my face ( I thinks this hurts me the worst)

Still ďsneaking ď around, erases trip odometer, locks br door to text, DB coach says sheís like a teenager.

Iíve told her Iím not moving out, she has plenty of money to move. My plan at this get D17 into college summer 2021 then who knows?

Oh, and donít bother posting the links, Iíve read them already. Thx for listening.
Posted By: job

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/28/20 03:44 PM

Welcome!

If your wife is having an MLC, she doesn't want to hear it. In her mind, she thinks she's okay and that you and the marriage are the problems and that is why she's unhappy. BTW, they do not like for us to diagnosis their problems. In fact, the best thing to do is...not discuss this type of stuff w/her. Of course, she's going to deny having a boyfriend. If it's MLC, she's going to become a very good liar, spend lots of money and will begin acting out like a star struck teenager. You are going to see lots of odd behavior and she will become the mirror image of her old self, i.e., she will become the exact opposite of who she once was. She's going to do whatever it takes to make her feel happy and alive once again. This behavior may continue for quite a while. What can you do about it? Treat her like a roommate...but I would suggest you set up separate bank accounts asap. Keep an eye your finances, especially joint credit cards.

I wouldn't have any more relationship talks with her, but she's not going to listen and the more you push, the harder she is going to pull away and run right into the arms of that other man. Right now, she looks to you to be an authority figure, i.e., like her father because of the questions, etc. that you have put to her. The best thing to do is focus on you and what you can do to help you and your D17 get through the holidays. Keep that focus on your D17 because she's going to need her dad during all of this.

Bottom line, you didn't break her, therefore you can't fix her. You can't control her and that means the only person that you can control is yourself. I'm glad to see that you've set your mind to not moving out.

Now, I'm going to ask you this...have you visited the MLC Forum and read the links there? If not, you should. The threads and postings over there may help you get a better handle on MLC...but you can post anywhere you wish...it is up to you.

Please try to remember that this is a marathon and not a sprint. Dig deeper for patience as it's a long road w/lost of twists and turns along the way.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/28/20 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by NickWing
Bomb dropped in June, I itially I thought WAW. Beg, plead, apologize. Soon find DBDR, start in earnest. Seem to have some progress, then progress stops. Get some DB Coaching, maybe MLC, maybe depression. Maybe affair? Me-Impossible!

W goes to nyc to see family and get space, however spends most time in friends vacant Manhattan apartment.

Comes back, now in separate br, and donít come into bathroom when Iím in it, makes her uncomfortable. I agree no pressure space.

Well 2 days later comes home from work at about 8 pm, needs bubble bath to de stress. Oh, and H, can you fix tub hot water not working. Goes in bath, candles wine, soft music. Well guess what, Iím in the room next door and she has om on speakerphone!! 90 minutes!!

Comes out I say I know whatís going on. Her answer, What did you hear? Oh, thatís nothing, thatís my confidant. What! You have a confidant I donít know about for 27 years?

Get DB coaching, give her the I know youíre having an affair, your a big girl, etc. speech only thing that seems to penetrate fog is telling her sheís going to lose daughterís respect. Gaslight, Iím crazy, only daughter would think sheís have affair is if I (H) planted it.

Kids are clueless, they donít see mom ghosting out all dressed up tons of perfume. Smells and looks good.

Wife ghost 6 to 8 hours four days in a row. Kids car breaks down, so one car for 3 people cuz mommy is nowhere to be found. Wife comes in about 1030 pm, tells d21 oh i can drive you! Really, youíre Mia but now you can help! I was drinking watching football, I tell W we donít need you, bad argument, D21 crying cuz Iím attacking mommy. (If she only knew) D21 leaves sobbing, Me and wife still going at it.

I tell her youíre having MLC, you need help, You have a boyfriend and Iím not telling, Iím the only one looking out for you. She denies affair, a blantant easily disproven lie straight to my face ( I thinks this hurts me the worst)

Still ďsneaking ď around, erases trip odometer, locks br door to text, DB coach says sheís like a teenager.

Iíve told her Iím not moving out, she has plenty of money to move. My plan at this get D17 into college summer 2021 then who knows?

Oh, and donít bother posting the links, Iíve read them already. Thx for listening.



Nick, sorry man. I know this stinks. Here is the thing. Doesn't matter if it's a MLC. Or not. You can't fix it. All you can do is DB, move on, stop fighting against her crazy. I like telling her she can move out. I don't like using the kids against her or telling her she's having a MLC and to get help. That is not DBing, that's pressure and pursuit.

Focus off of her, onto you. Gal. 180s. Detachment. Those are your focus.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/28/20 06:17 PM

Yeah, that argument was my backslip. I came out looking like a rage monster. D.oh. Wasnít trying to use kids against her . I have studiously avoided any R talks and should have walked away.

Household finances are in my control. She always had separate bank account which snooping revealed had over 50k in it, so I know sheís good for money. She can move out anytime she wants. She has her own credit card which I signed her up for for the points but I donít have access to. Spending does not seem to be an issue, but Iíll keep an eye out for.

I know I canít fix it. I was determined to be a stander, but donít if I can wait due to the years long timeline. I think sheís in replay.

I just retired in January and my plan was to travel with her so all plans are out the window.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/28/20 06:35 PM

Yeah, Job, I read all the links. Iíve been a lurker since July.

Not that it makes any difference, but I say MLC because I can in retrospect see the anger stage and now replay because she is reverting to very unladylike behavior she had in college. Now this was before we met, so I donít hold it against her. It broke my heart because she was a wonderful partner (Who I know I wonít be seeing again) and it upped the empathy quotient.

So what am I seeing?
Excessive working out
Change in diet less carbs more protein and veggies
Buys and wears much more makeup
Spends way more time getting ready to go out...to grocery store!
Stopped wearing rings except for work
More form fitting clothes, but tasteful
Detachment from kids
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/28/20 07:32 PM

Treating like a room mate is a tough one. I get the old her about 10% of the time, indifferent 80% and Shark Eyes 10%. Itís better when anybody else is around, then she is normal. Problem is kids are out of the house all the time, so it is usually her and me. And she just changed her schedule to work at home 2 days a week. I try to avoid whenever possible. Also when she is going to or coming home from OM she acts so guilty, canít even look any in the eye, itís really sad.

I get up earlier (because I canít sleep) So I make coffee. When she comes out I tell her there is coffee. She then asks, everyday, is it extra coffee?

Shark eyes, wow, the first time I got it, I had already started DB, we were painting a cabinet, I made a joke about body painting, voom, instant hate mask and shark eyes. It actually was a little scary.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/28/20 07:50 PM

Yeah, that not moving out. I made more than my share of mistakes, but somehow I said ďIím not movingĒ She actually said I should go to a hotel or a friends for a couple nights, Iím like No. Even though I have many free nights at. nearby Marriott.

My point is I did nothing wrong, why should I go to a hotel? If I cramp your style, you go. You have money, points free nights.

I have no idea who OM is, or if there is more than one. Letís just say she previously had over lapping relationships. Cuz guess what, canít do anything about it. Only protect my kids from learning what she is doing. And man thatís why I feel this is a mental illness. I am pretzeling myself to keep my kids from knowing, and itís so obvious she is going to be exposed if she keeps this up.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/28/20 08:36 PM

So when I gave the DB coach approved ďI know you are having an affair speechĒ it caught her by surprise. She had the goofiest expression, like Mr Magoo with the worst migraine. It actually made my head hurt. So W storms out goes to beach. Texts D21 to go with here who says no, Iím going back home to eat tuna casserole that I asked Daddy to make. Wife then comes home and eats dinner with us. Now Iím totally confused because we are in the same room where I called you a (bad word) acouple hours ago.

I look over at her, and she had dull (not shark) eyes staring at her plate and it looked like her head was going to explode.

And I felt sorry for her.

She has plan A (OM) plan b me a great career thatís taking off great kids, and I feel sorry for her.

So who is mentally ill?
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/28/20 09:28 PM

Requesting multiple nail embedded 2x4s.
Posted By: LH19

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/28/20 09:52 PM

What are you confused about?
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/28/20 10:33 PM

I told her I know she is having an affair to her face, she denied, of course, and showed up for dinner like nothing happened, but looked like she had a lobotomy.

I guess Iím new to this, but the youíre a cheater, I hate you, whatís for dinner, letís be friends dynamic is confusing. Itís like the emotion/feelings blender.
Posted By: LH19

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/28/20 11:16 PM

Itís what we called cake eating in DB land. WWs love to fill their fats faces with cake and LBS love feeding it to them. Itís confusing in the beginning. Only you can decide when the bakery is closed.
Posted By: PLC

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/29/20 03:55 AM

Hi Tony,

I am sorry youíre here. I have been living with my MLC H for 18 months. Heís had at least two OW that I am aware of. I have just learned to live with him here. In these past 18 months, he has had a regression to being a teen; messy bed (he sleeps in our D25s room and sheís is actually sleeping on the couch.), spray tan, diets then overeating, washes clothes once a month or one load for one pair of pants. He leaves in the evening to eat away from the house. The OWs were in another country, so he really is stuck here.

I have struggled to understand. I have been seeing a therapist once a week. That has helped immensely as she is very aware of MLC and how to deal with him. I have learned to protect myself, (he still has me pay all of the bills and watch the money), I have also learned to not ask him anything R related, and I just give him a wide berth.

You can read my sitch, he will bring home baked goods, and surprisingly he ate with D and I on Thursday. He does not know that I know about the OWs. I just know it will come out later but now is not the time, I see periodic glimpses of him, but nothing to what he used to be like. If you plan to stand, you will have to develop a strong outer armor. It helps.

Wishing you the best.

PLC
Posted By: ovrrnbw

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/29/20 03:48 PM

Nick, sorry you're here. Make the most of this period of your life. Don't put your travel plans on hold bc of her, do what you've been dreaming of.

Shark eyes? Don't let anyone have that power over you. No fear, amigo.

I wouldn't protect the kids from finding put, they're going to find out anyways.

The hard thing is the right thing here. Step back, drop your emotions, and start to tackle this logically. Quit doing what doesn't work. Do what makes you happy. Quit focusing on her unless you enjoy misery. Go out with your friends and start living and healing.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/29/20 04:34 PM

The whole covid thing kind of did a number on the travel plans, but I was setting something up yesterday, so when restrictions are relaxed, Iím good to go.

DB coach also said quit covering for W. Itís going to be tough when my kids find out, they think we have a good marriage. What just amazes me is that W can have an OM when she has 2 beautiful daughters that will learn how to form their relationships from her. The two talks we had the only thing that registered with W was when I told her Ds wonít respect her.

Itís weird W has been kind of normal the last couple days. Thanksgiving was fine, and we played a board game after eating that was fun. This morning she came out of her bedroom, said good morning and made coffee for both of us. Sat down and read the paper, deja vu all over again. I donít expect it to last.

The best day I had since Bomb Drop was last Friday. I was googling her name and came across a review of her from 2019 as a Mental Health counselor. The review stated my W was terrible because she allegedly told a couple in crises that they should not be married, and W is callous and immoral. I lmao. I showed it to her and she was p!ssed. She went digging thru her notes to see if she could find out who it is. Hello, you bomb dropped me without a second thought so obviously you are callous, and in an affair so therefore immoral. Itís like her brain was completely compartmentalized.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/29/20 04:53 PM

Yeah, Iím trying to put positive spin on things:

No custody issues, we would have been empty nesters in fall
If we sell house, I wanted to downsize eventually
Opportunity to move to a new area closer to my family. We are in Fl and neither of us has family here.
Chance to start new holiday traditions.
Chance to remove myself from her BS.

Mostly sheís been pretty good wife mother but I have to take off those rose tinted glasses. For example, last year I bought a car so D17 could drive to school. She had a learner permit, but did not practice and was unsafe driver. I gave D a certain amount of hours and tasks before I would let her take road test. No license means W has to get up early to take D to bus stop.

Well W takes D to a notoriously easy testing center and D passes (but still hasnít driven on a highway?) I find out because older D is not good with this and snitches. So whatís the result. I have to take time from work to drive with D for the next month until she proves she is competent. Iím mad because sheís willing to let unsafe D drive to school in the dark so W gets to sleep in. Meanwhile, Iím still defending Wís previous accident from careless driving.

So sheís been cake eating all the time.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/29/20 08:29 PM

Oh yeah and right before BD she went into full blown menopause. The woman who is always cold had the ac cranked to the max.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/29/20 08:32 PM

Iíve been able to gut check myself by using the MWD will this bring us closer together and stop from saying stuff, but man Iím all emotion.
Posted By: LH19

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/29/20 09:20 PM

N,

My suggestion to you is to try to get her out of the house ASAP. In house separation while a Spouse is in an affair is very difficult. Start boxing her stuff and put it in the garage.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/29/20 11:52 PM

Haha sheís not in affair. She told me so
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/30/20 02:05 AM

Ok I knew something was up today because she was nice and almost normal. I told her that. The discussion she wants with the kids is we both agree, itís a mutual decision.

I then say letís talk about asset division. She says, oh, I donít know isnít that premature etc. But wants to know why an Ira I had before we met wasnít part of the division, and why I didnít want to give her part of my pension (40k per year)

She works 24 hours a week, and can make 100k this year. She says, no lie, do you know how hard I would have to work to make that? I told her I would file for alimony, she was like what!!

I worked 50 plus hours a week, then commuted 15 hours plus got the kids up, fed them took them to the bus and was up at work before you even got out of bed.

Btw, I also told her jewelry, like the wedding and engagement rings were property that could be divided. She got real weird, llike why would she want them.

I also busted on her confidant she acts like itís normal that a woman asks another man about her husband.

I broke DB rules and asked her plans, where she would live etc. Answer I donít I havenít given it a lot of thought.

BS thereís a plan. And before anyone jumps me, she only has access to her own account which has 50 k in it,

Oh yeah, no boyfriend, Iím crazy.

I canít remember what it was but she told me I should do something, yeah, Iíll do the 180, you do not have anyone elseís best interests in mind.
Posted By: LH19

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/30/20 05:21 AM

N,

Speak to a lawyer as soon as possible and find out your rights. Do not talk specifics with her about what youíll be asking for on the D.

Your children are old enough to be told the truth.
Posted By: Kind18

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/30/20 07:07 AM

LH19 is absolutely right.

1. Get a lawyer appointment ASAP
2. Donít have any more of these property division conversations until step 1 is done
3. Talk to the lawyer about custody and what you want and how to achieve it
4. Do not lie to your children. She wants you to lie for her because she has guilt over what she is doing. Thatís not your problem. Your kids will resent you later on if they realise you lied.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/30/20 12:47 PM

Lawyer set up. D17 will be 18 in month so custody is moot.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/30/20 01:36 PM

Lawyers lined up. I actually started asset conversation to see what she wants, like would she agree to ia quick settlement . No W wants what she can get. Huge procrastinator and not very organized so I waiting for her to initiate. She made comment that I might not be fair because she really isnít being fair to me.

D17 in a month so custody should not be an issue. So kids should Be told this is all moms doing? W seems to really want the team approach.

Oh, no OM, but I found a card in her bag last week (blank) professing true love.

I did ask this. When D17 graduates, the family walks out together. I donít want om there. She agreed, because there is no other om.

Itís crazy dealing with her because she has no compassion is very emotionless with me
Posted By: LH19

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/30/20 02:02 PM

Nick,

So hereís the thing your children are definitely old enough for the truth. Before telling them I think you should ask yourself why youíre telling them itís all moms doing. Before you do it you better make sure your side of the street is clean. I get the sense from you that you may be controlling.

As far as no compassion and empathy for you. Itís par for the course. Sheís ďin loveĒ with OM. Sheís not in love with you anymore and just sees you as an obstacle to get what she wants to ďbe happyĒ.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/30/20 02:28 PM

Fair point about the controlling. It [censored] having very little control over the sitch. I guess trying to look like the good guy.
Posted By: LH19

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/30/20 02:45 PM

The loss of control and instability is what causes the LBS to go into fight or flight mode and do desperate things like beg, plead, try to manipulate to regain a sense of control.

This is the time to look inward and work on the root cause of why you are controlling. Control comes from fear and what you fear you attract. Itís time to open the cage door and let her go. Understand what you can control (you) and what you cannot (other people). Learn the difference between boundaries and ultimatums.

Remember that the person who cares about a relationship the least is in control. For a while that will be a bitter pill to swallow.

Time and space are the only thing that turns these around long term.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 11/30/20 02:57 PM

Yeah, I get that. I had early on stopped the begging and the pleading, but requests are another form of manipulation.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/01/20 02:08 PM

Nick, I do not want to gloss over the impact of this on your kids. Have you read DB/DR? Michelle talks about the impact, even though she was an adult, that her parent's divorce had on her. It is the reason she got into the MC business!

I know you know this, but your kids will wonder what this means for holidays and other joint occasions (birth of grandkids, birthday parties, etc.). My W has had to deal with this stuff her whole life because of her D'd parents. Sometimes she is torn between the two of them because each expects things to be their way. Be sensitive to your kids' plight through all of this. My experience with my W has been that they will be dealing with this long after you both have moved on.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/01/20 10:51 PM

My parents divorced when I was 14 so I went through this as well. Christmas dinner me, my brother and mom. My wife never had that experience, she came from a big family, so great holidays. I mentioned this to her, but thatís logic, she is on pure emotion, so no response. We have no family here, so who knows what next years will be like. Iím planning for fun on the days the kids will be with me, probably at my step mothers. I wanted to give my kids one last good Christmas, both will be in college next year, but no, we have to tell them this Sunday, even though due to covid we will all be in the same house until February at least.

I read DB, DR, Healing from infidelity, etc. DB coaching. It takes two for a marriage, only one to divorce.

Hey, thx for checking in.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/01/20 10:55 PM

Oh, yeah I mentioned the holiday thing between sobs on Bomb drop. Answer, Kids are resilient

Since she is a mental health counselor , I asked her to line up a therapist for our kids for their bomb drop, her answer, they wonít need it.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/01/20 11:03 PM

I asked W what the convo was like when her parents split up. Her answer was, there was no conversation, he just left. Díoh, hello childhood trauma.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/02/20 01:14 AM

I just thought of something. Twice in my life, I ran into Xgfs while with new gf. Both times it was a trade up. What does the future hold?
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/02/20 03:47 AM

Ugh, just got out of parenting with W talk with D17 who was not following rules about when to come home after band practice. Hanging out with friends who we approve of but giving us misleading info on what she was doing. Turns out she is crushed because sheís been online schooling and missing her friends. Missed a lot of senior year hs stuff.

She was sobbing. Just wait until bd Sunday. Oh well W says kids are resilient. You W, the child therapist.
Posted By: harvey

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/02/20 04:26 AM

I'm two days from the two year anniversary of my divorce. I thought it would be really hard on my daughters. Turns out, not so much. They are doing really well. Your wife saying "kids are resilient" is more likely to be true than your belief that it will be hard on them. Let it go. You can't control it. All you can do is give them an environment in which they can thrive.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/02/20 01:58 PM

Sunday will not be easy, there is no question. But as harvey says, they will move on and flourish. But a lot of that has to do with you Nick. Do not be like my W's parents and demand "You spend Christmas with me instead of your mom!" Remember, it is the time spent with your kids not the DAY! If she is having them for Christmas then celebrate Christmas with them on Christmas Eve. Or the Saturday after Christmas (or before). Be the bigger person, not petty. Not to cater to your STBXW, but to make things easier on your kids!
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/02/20 05:15 PM

We are in the same house, and will likely be until the spring. My W wanted to talk to the kids last Sunday, but I got her to delay a week. The convo is supposed to be Mom and Dad are having a rough time, but not get into specifics like we are getting a divorce.

My W asked me yesterday about getting the Xmas decorations out. Boy, this will be one for the record books.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/02/20 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by NickWing
We are in the same house, and will likely be until the spring. My W wanted to talk to the kids last Sunday, but I got her to delay a week. The convo is supposed to be Mom and Dad are having a rough time, but not get into specifics like we are getting a divorce.

My W asked me yesterday about getting the Xmas decorations out. Boy, this will be one for the record books.


Wait, huh? So you are going to tell the kids that you are having a rough time? I am not sure I agree with that approach. Are you guys in separate bedrooms? Even then I am not sure you should have a pre-pre-D talk. Not sure what that accomplishes.

The kids will ask "Are you going to get a divorce?" What are you and your W's plan for answering that? "We don't know yet."? Why even discuss this with the kids if there is nothing concrete to tell them?
Posted By: tom_l

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/02/20 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by NickWing
Bomb dropped in June, I itially I thought WAW. Beg, plead, apologize. Soon find DBDR, start in earnest. Seem to have some progress, then progress stops. Get some DB Coaching, maybe MLC, maybe depression. Maybe affair? Me-Impossible!

W goes to nyc to see family and get space, however spends most time in friends vacant Manhattan apartment.

Comes back, now in separate br, and donít come into bathroom when Iím in it, makes her uncomfortable. I agree no pressure space.

Well 2 days later comes home from work at about 8 pm, needs bubble bath to de stress. Oh, and H, can you fix tub hot water not working. Goes in bath, candles wine, soft music. Well guess what, Iím in the room next door and she has om on speakerphone!! 90 minutes!!

Comes out I say I know whatís going on. Her answer, What did you hear? Oh, thatís nothing, thatís my confidant. What! You have a confidant I donít know about for 27 years?

Get DB coaching, give her the I know youíre having an affair, your a big girl, etc. speech only thing that seems to penetrate fog is telling her sheís going to lose daughterís respect. Gaslight, Iím crazy, only daughter would think sheís have affair is if I (H) planted it.

Kids are clueless, they donít see mom ghosting out all dressed up tons of perfume. Smells and looks good.

Wife ghost 6 to 8 hours four days in a row. Kids car breaks down, so one car for 3 people cuz mommy is nowhere to be found. Wife comes in about 1030 pm, tells d21 oh i can drive you! Really, youíre Mia but now you can help! I was drinking watching football, I tell W we donít need you, bad argument, D21 crying cuz Iím attacking mommy. (If she only knew) D21 leaves sobbing, Me and wife still going at it.

I tell her youíre having MLC, you need help, You have a boyfriend and Iím not telling, Iím the only one looking out for you. She denies affair, a blantant easily disproven lie straight to my face ( I thinks this hurts me the worst)

Still ďsneaking ď around, erases trip odometer, locks br door to text, DB coach says sheís like a teenager.

Iíve told her Iím not moving out, she has plenty of money to move. My plan at this get D17 into college summer 2021 then who knows?

Oh, and donít bother posting the links, Iíve read them already. Thx for listening.


Nick, wow do I sympathize. My story is a little older than yours but it took me nearly a year to find DB, and then a month to finally begin posting. You can ready my story here if interested ... although I expect you probably don't want to at this stage, that's OK! You have to get through your own situation.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2905366&page=1

But the DB principles are spot on. I fought them for awhile, but the veterans here (Steve, LH19, others) did not let up on me. I started posting elsewhere, too, reading other stories, and I found the principles to be sinking in. They work. They help you let go. Sometimes the advice was brutal for me, but they were right.

Detach. GAL. Do your 180s. And the hardest part is the detach part, letting go, letting her do her MLC boyfriend thing. You have to decide if you'll ever let her back due to her betrayal. But that's separate from the DB principles. Steve said it clearly -- stop losing sleep over the things you can't control, meaning her behavior.

Feel free to reach out. My pain is still raw as my divorce is a long way from being final.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/02/20 09:41 PM

Steve, I donít know what the plan is. My W either talks to them with or without me. I raised the ďAre you going to get divorced questionĒ I guess itís we donít know. None of this makes any sense. Right before Christmas. Itís the crazy M L C mind.

Oh and Ws older sister is probably coming down to stay with us like she has every winter for the last five years.

The only thing I can think of is that W thought at BD l would bail and she would be free to carry on. But something in my gut said donít move out, and I havenít, and she canít make me. Funny thing is, my L clued me in to some huge economic advantages to me the longer the delay. I donít want to discuss, but will reveal if this is ever resolved.

Look, W could never make a plan. She could nag about stuff she could have very easily do herself, but is a huge procrastinator and just started her own business last month. So sheís balancing 1 new business (estimated taxes etc) 2 normal kid stuff which sheís neglecting 3 her sister visiting 4 her desires with Om 5 me in a Mlc mind

Every relationship discussion (I donít iniate,) I tell her she should move out if she feels awkward, then I walk away. Her sister can still stay.

I am dB ing gal gym ic making future travel plans clearing out clutter to sell house making next years holiday plans without W etc

Everyday the pain becomes just a little less, my economic sitch becomes better I bond with my kids more etc

So hereís a funny detachment story. One night, where W usually ďworks lateĒ the kids were out so I ordered Five guys for us to watch an anime movie. Well food kids and W all showed up at same time. Awkward because we didnít get her a burger because sheís never home at this time but my kids were nice enough to give her some fries.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/02/20 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by NickWing
Steve, I donít know what the plan is. My W either talks to them with or without me. I raised the ďAre you going to get divorced questionĒ I guess itís we donít know. None of this makes any sense. Right before Christmas. Itís the crazy M L C mind.

Oh and Ws older sister is probably coming down to stay with us like she has every winter for the last five years.

The only thing I can think of is that W thought at BD l would bail and she would be free to carry on. But something in my gut said donít move out, and I havenít, and she canít make me. Funny thing is, my L clued me in to some huge economic advantages to me the longer the delay. I donít want to discuss, but will reveal if this is ever resolved.

Look, W could never make a plan. She could nag about stuff she could have very easily do herself, but is a huge procrastinator and just started her own business last month. So sheís balancing 1 new business (estimated taxes etc) 2 normal kid stuff which sheís neglecting 3 her sister visiting 4 her desires with Om 5 me in a Mlc mind

Every relationship discussion (I donít iniate,) I tell her she should move out if she feels awkward, then I walk away. Her sister can still stay.

I am dB ing gal gym ic making future travel plans clearing out clutter to sell house making next years holiday plans without W etc

Everyday the pain becomes just a little less, my economic sitch becomes better I bond with my kids more etc

So hereís a funny detachment story. One night, where W usually ďworks lateĒ the kids were out so I ordered Five guys for us to watch an anime movie. Well food kids and W all showed up at same time. Awkward because we didnít get her a burger because sheís never home at this time but my kids were nice enough to give her some fries.


Well with Five Guys, there are plenty of fries to share! smile
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/02/20 10:32 PM

Yeah, well I wasnít giving her any of my fries.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/02/20 11:47 PM

Ok, so D 17 high school just called. D 17 may be valedictorian or salutorian. Definitely in top 10. So W is going to bomb drop 3 weeks before Christmas and 1 week before finals. Unbelievable.
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/03/20 12:44 AM

Congratulations! I'd tell your ex-wife the good news, "The school called. D17 may end up valedictorian!" I'd also let her know, "I'm open, if you'd like to tell the kids until after finals, just let me know before Sunday." I would not pressure, guilt, persuade, negotiate, etc. Those tend to backfire spectacularly. If she opts to tell them with you on Sunday, remember you have a hand in how easy or traumatic that experience is.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/03/20 01:15 AM

Sheís not XW. Sheís W.



Right now we are watching ďSpirited AWayĒ eating Poke like everything is normal. Me, D21, D17, and W. And dog.

Very bizarre.
Posted By: LH19

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/03/20 01:19 AM

Your W likes eating cake Nicky. Wondering why youíre not out doing your own thing?
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/03/20 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by NickWing
Sheís not XW. Sheís W.



Right now we are watching ďSpirited AWayĒ eating Poke like everything is normal. Me, D21, D17, and W. And dog.

Very bizarre.


She is your STBXW. Your MR as you knew it is over. You really need to embrace that. IF you get the opportunity with her then you have to forge a new MR. MR2.0. If she stays and you try to go back to business as usual then you will be setting yourself up for BD#2.

Why aren't you out GAL?
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/05/20 03:29 AM

I donít know why we are having the conversation. I asked again today, and she said we already talked about this.

Maybe Iím getting served papers. That would require a lot of effort on her part, and I donít see it but I could be surprised. I know somebody is whispering in her ear, but she is not getting accurate info. I know what she thinks she is entitled to, but she is wrong, the facts and the law are on my side.

told her she needed to file her estimated taxes by January 15, she was like what????

Whatís frustrating is that someone you completely trusted is now your adversary.
Posted By: LH19

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/05/20 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by NickWing
told her she needed to file her estimated taxes by January 15, she was like what????

So Nick this is what you should work on. Youíre not her father. Sheís a big girl and if she is going to D you she needs to put on her big girl panties and take care of these things herself.

Of course she has the om in her ear pushing her through the process. The law is the law so that will all work itself out.

You would be be surprised about the motivation of a WW spouse.

I would try to gain clarity before going into the convo Sunday so you are not blindsided.

Why she wants to have this convo 3 weeks before Christmas is beyond me. It canít wait until the New Year? OM must really be pressuring her for it.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/05/20 12:04 PM

Yeah, I donít. Know whatís going on. I donít why the timing of my daughterís senior year, I can only mind read and think that once the BD she thought I would bail but still pay all the bills. But Iím still here, and again yesterday I told her she should move out.

Well, she hasnít accessed any of the financial records, which be the first step since we donít have custody or child support issues.

I think the whispering friend is her divorced girlfriend.

As for the tax thing, Iím liable too. Previously I have filed it for her so the reminder that she is responsible is a 180
Posted By: Mumin

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/05/20 02:22 PM

LH is right on the tax thing. Cant see how you are liable for her taxes?
I donít know youíre sitch but since youíve told her she should move out it should be apparent to her sheís responsible for herself now. If you really think she hasnít realized that then just say ďyouíre responsible for your life nowĒ. Then dont let NGS or something else convince you to remind her of anything ever again(unless R of course). That includes even if she risks being fined.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/05/20 03:18 PM

Because our taxes this year are filed jointly.
Posted By: Mumin

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/05/20 03:37 PM

Totally new concept for me. Iím from Scandinavia. The above principle still is valid though.
My take would have been to either just do it all and not tell her, or only do mine and let her pay the total consequences. Depends on the system.
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/05/20 04:04 PM

Hi Mumin,

In the US you have the option of filing jointly or separately. Filing jointly often offers you a discount of sorts.

If it's not possible for you to figure everything out, I'd probably say "If you want me to file the taxes jointly--that nets us $$$--please give me X by date Y," maybe one or two reminders, then file separately. This is also what I'd do if an acquaintance and I were trying to buy bulk to save money. I would steer clear of (as counterproductive) telling her what she needs to do or trying to control her behaviors.
Posted By: LH19

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/07/20 12:31 PM

How did the talk go?
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/07/20 04:45 PM

At about 10 o clock, W (stbxw) came to me in LR and said letís talk in DR where kids were. I said we could talk to them here, or not not ever. She said thatís not an option, I said itís always an option.

So I let wife talk and she said Daddy and I arenít sleeping in the same room, and that we were working on things. Thatís why things are so tense in the house. Buts nobodyís moving out and things are not going to change in the near future. Blah blah blah, any questions?

Ds are like, thatís kinda vague, whatís that mean?

D21 asked how long has this been going on, like since March. W said longer than that.

W: Well, it doesnít mean that we are going to get divorced, or divorced soon.

I pretty much said nothing because this whole thing made no sense.

Well, kids cried a little, and then we h

And then everybody pretty much went back to what they were doing.

Then W complained I put the dirty dish rag with the clean dishes and I needed to stop doing that. I just looked at her.

And Sil is coming to stay with us in January so we all have to get covid tested because she
Posted By: LH19

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/07/20 05:17 PM

Bizarre exchange indeed.

So are you working on things? IC, MC? Is she still in contact with OM?
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/07/20 05:20 PM

I forgot, W explained thatís why we dont tell each other where we are, where we are going.

About 30 minutes after semi BD, I was sitting on sofa watching the game.

W:You wanted to talk?

N:No

W: You look like you want to say something.

N:No
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/07/20 05:23 PM

Iím in Ic, we had 2 mc sessions in July, then she just didnít show up for the third one. I have a dB coach too.

Ic is telling me prepare for D, Iím like yeah, I know.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/07/20 05:24 PM

Sorry Nick. I know this conversation was not what you wanted, but for some reason your W seemed to determine to have it. Very strange, but it makes me wonder what her end goal might be? My guess is that she is ready to take things to another level with the OM, and she wants to be able to point back at this conversation if any of your daughters get upset about it and say "I told you that me and your father were having problems!"

That is the only reason I can see why she pushed so hard for this conversation. It makes no sense for any other reason. I would double-down on GAL. 180s and detachment. DB like there is no tomorrow. Leave her alone to figure out her own crap, and you go live a great life. Be the best father for these girls that you can be. Focus off of W, onto you and your kids.

Good luck man, I pray things improve for you.
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/07/20 05:31 PM

Hi Nick,

You actually navigated this quite well--you let her talk, you didn't parrot her lies, you didn't take the "bait" when she tried to get you to initiate an R-talk. I agree with Steve that her insistence about having this chat isn't a good sign, unfortunately. Hang in there! You still have an amazing daughter you love who loves you (teenagers don't always express it) in the running for valedictorian/salutatorian. Whether she makes it or not, that she's in the running shows that you are definitely doing something right.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/07/20 05:38 PM

Sadly, I canít disagree. I donít think Iíve seen a positive sign since July.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/07/20 08:29 PM

CW, youíll love this one from earlier in the day.

W(looking in kitchen cabinet) We have a lot of lasagna noodles!

N: Then make a lasagna.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/08/20 12:49 AM

So today I helped D 21 make her first lasagna. W came home and D21 gave her some. But I didnít give her any garlic bread because I didnít make enough for her. So there!
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/08/20 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by NickWing
So today I helped D 21 make her first lasagna. W came home and D21 gave her some. But I didnít give her any garlic bread because I didnít make enough for her. So there!


Nick, I am seeing a pattern here. "She can't have any of my fries!" "I didn't make enough garlic bread for her!" I understand that you are just doing your own thing, but the fact that you are consciously, it seems, being passive-aggressive with this stuff means you may be looking at how to detach in the wrong manner. Being petty and passive-aggressive is not the right approach to this. I would just be careful because this can come back to haunt you later.

I lived by the motto, in my IHS, to "kill her with kindness". To recompense evil with good. To be the bigger person and to take the high road. The kind of thinking I am detecting with some of this can lead you down the wrong path. "Well if she has someone else then I will go out and get someone else to show her how it feels!"

I would read Sandi's rules. I would get to know them and let them guide you in your interactions with your W. If you and your D knew that there would be plenty of lasagna for your W, there would be nothing wrong or anti-DBing about making sure there was also enough garlic bread for her too. I have no problem with not getting her Five Guys the other day because, as you pointed out, she isn't normally home that early. So just make sure that when you are tempted to do or not do something to weigh it and make sure it isn't just pettiness or passive-aggressiveness that is guiding your actions.
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/08/20 03:08 PM

@NickWing, Steve85 has a point to consider your motive behind not sharing with your ex-wife--but also props for making lasagna with D21! That's a great GAL activity, besides teaching your D cooking skills, besides sounding like a lovely bonding moment.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/08/20 05:02 PM

Ok, I am trying to walk a fine line between being polite and feeding cake. I do all the cooking, so I trying to make it look like I am not cooking for her.

I used to make her breakfast in the morning and stopped doing that, although I did do it the day after I found out about the A. Iíd like to go back in time and punch myself in the face.

Last week we got takeout and I had the kids call to see if she wanted any because it would have been rude not to.

Good news is kids are have. NYE party here so Iíll have a house full of teenagers here.

Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/08/20 05:14 PM

Yeah, she was assembling and I had to leave the room. I came and checked and asked, ďWhereís the sauce?
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/08/20 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by NickWing
Ok, I am trying to walk a fine line between being polite and feeding cake. I do all the cooking, so I trying to make it look like I am not cooking for her.

I used to make her breakfast in the morning and stopped doing that, although I did do it the day after I found out about the A. Iíd like to go back in time and punch myself in the face.

Last week we got takeout and I had the kids call to see if she wanted any because it would have been rude not to.

Good news is kids are have. NYE party here so Iíll have a house full of teenagers here.



It is a fine line, no question. However, I am not seeing that your W is being openly disrespectful to you. That is really when you need to be forceful and not let her cake eat. I agree with stopping the breakfast cooking. But if you are cooking for the family, she is still part of the family. No need to make things specially for her, but I also wouldn't go out of my way to make sure she didn't have, say, garlic bread.

In general you seem to be doing well though so keep up the good work.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/08/20 08:59 PM

No, no open disrespect, except where she was on speakerphone in bubble bath while I was next room and could hear it. I described it to my DB coach who said sheís in Limerence and reckless. Sheís sneakier now.

Again, I think itís mlc because she checks some but not all of the boxes, and her A seems to be a replay to her teenage behavior, where she bounced from guy to guy to guy. She was never without a boyfriend. Her father abandoned the family, But her job seems to be stable, and no crazy spending.

But excercising, change diet, new music, menopause, the lying, tighter clothes.
Posted By: LH19

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/09/20 01:39 PM

Nick

When people get into affairs, it's a very stark mixed bag of feelings. For one, getting loads of positive attention from a member of the opposite sex is intoxicating, it's really like a drug. Then, there's the accompanying feeling of guilt knowing that they are doing something wrong.

Rather than get angry at themselves, they think "why am I feeling guilty? It's because of HIM, HE'S making me feel guilty"

Then, you become the bad guy, and they look to reinforce their argument that "you are making them do this" by searching for any negative things that you do, re-writing your history so it was always bad, etc. etc. etc.

It's a very predictable and repeatable pattern unfortunately, and the things your wife is saying and how she is acting are no different.

The the guilt she feels over her A is yet another reason she resents you, so anything you do to guilt her, shame her, or make her responsible for your sadness is going to increase her guilt and therefore increase her resentment.

Your best bet is to go the opposite direction and give her more space than she wants. The DB prescription is (1) 180: whatever she assumes she knows about you, demonstrate that it's not true. If you used to get angry and honk in traffic, don't do that even in the worst scenario, etc. (2) Get a Life: go out and do things with other people and enjoy your life, establish new relationships, (3) Act as If: Act as if everything is 100% awesome in your life.

There is NOTHING you can do about her affair partner or what she's going to do next. You can only control what you're going to do next.

People often fear that if they go in the other direction, are they telling their partner they don't care, or giving their tacit approval for the affair to continue, or how will they demonstrate that they're different if the other person doesn't see them, etc. etc.

The answer to all of that is "NO" -- the answer is to give space, not pursue, and all it means is that you're giving space. There's nothing else to read into it.

Often we get caught up on what we should and shouldn't be doing, but the important thing is not the what, but the how, or what your demeanor is like.

You need to "open the cage door" as it were, and what that means is that you need to completely let her off the hook in terms of influencing your feelings.

If she knows that you are "okay" no matter what she does, then she is free to deal with her own feelings and work things out for herself.

If she's constantly aware that her actions and her decisions are making you sad/angsty/mad/etc. then she will wear that feeling like a yoke of oppression and her main focus will be getting away from it.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/09/20 02:23 PM

LH, Iím not moping around the house or giving angry stares. I give her all the space in the world. I usually donít see her in the morning, and try to do something in another part of the house with the kids at night, or go to the gym. If she wants more space she can move out.

Itís business as usual with me and my kids, and W can join in if she wants.

If she feels guilt, thatís on her. Iím not acting okay, Iím good. Definitely not pursuing.
Posted By: kml

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/11/20 05:58 AM

Ugh. My ex wanted to announce his leaving right before Thanksgiving. I made him wait until a few weeks after Xmas so our kids wouldnít forever associate the holidays with him leaving.

He also left in the middle of our youngestís senior year. After 26 years together, he couldnít wait 6 more months until the kid was off to college?

Look - I wouldnít volunteer information thatís not asked for. But if your girls ask whatís going on, I think theyíre old enough for you to tell them the truth. ďMom is having an affair. Iíve been hoping to save the marriage but sheís not been willing to pursue marriage counseling and give up the affair. Iím still hopeful that this is a midlife crisis and she will turn around, because I love your mom. But itís not looking too good.Ē

I donít believe you should have to go along with the ď we both just grew apart nonsense when you were willing to go to the mat for your marriage. They probably already have an inkling anyway since your wife has been so reckless. Do expect though that the girls may initially blame you, as the safe parent, for not keeping mom ďhappy enoughĒ.

If your sister in law is coming in January, donít you think she deserves to know what sheís stepping into? If your relationship with her is good, you could tell her ďIím happy to see you and the girls are looking forward to it. But I just thought you should know that Iíve discovered your sister cheating on me and things may be a little different around here.Ē

Now - if your relationship with her is not that great, donít say anything, as she may be a co- conspirator with your wife.

Also - youíve said it benefits you financially to stay. Does it benefit you not to file? Have you consulted with an attorney? If not, you should. Seeing an attorney doesnít mean you have to file; just gather information and figure out how best to protect yourself. Since your wife is a mental health professional, she may try to make false accusations to get you out of the house (since she knows something about how the system works). Sheís not the woman you once knew, so be careful.

Iím sorry youíre going through this. Stick to the high road and donít badmouth her to your girls (but donít feel you need to lie for her either). Use this time to become a better version of yourself. (At 52, when my ex left, I learned to play the drums and played in a pop-punk cover band!) If this really is the end of your marriage, it doesnít mean there isnít an exciting future ahead of you if you want it.

Iím 11 years out from the divorce from my cheating ex, and even though I fought hard for my marriage at the time, I wouldnít take him back on a silver platter now.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/11/20 01:27 PM

I would be careful about making it, even with older kids, about "your mom is doing X". Keep it general. "SOmetimes people grow apart." "You cannot force anyone to stay with you." Etc.

Kids are smart. They are perceptive. They know who is making the mistakes and who is at fault. By the way, this is another reason it is a bad idea for the LBS to start turning to other people (IE DATING) too early. Kids will see that and think "wow, Mom started to step away from the marriage, but Dad was quick to run to someone else. Hmmm." I still don't know why people rush to dating IF they want to save their marriage. (RANT OVER)

The truth always has a way of coming out without the LBS outing their WAS.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/11/20 01:57 PM

One other point on outing your WAW's behavior to the kids. You need to think of that as a scorched-earth. "we are never getting back together" move. Likely will not go over well with your WAW.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/11/20 05:00 PM

DB coach and I donít think there is anything to gain by outing her at this point, but donít lie for her. My evidence is the overheard bubble bath conversation and by snooping I found an I love you card to om in her purse. Sheís was reckless during the bubble bath, but is pretty discreet, but I can tell because she always dolls herself up when sheís going out, but doesnít stay out late. I think om is married. Usually kids are over at friends house when she does this. Kids really love and respect their mom, and this would crush them, and might been seen as vindictive on my part. When I confronted her in October, W said the only way kids would think She is having an affair is if l (Nick) planted the idea.

SIL and I get along well, the problem is nobody would believe it. I think proactively involving her has potential to backfire .

When DB coach brought up possibility of an affair, I said not a chance. Well, I was wrong as are most newcomers.

Besides the affair, she really is model mother, and was a good W. The funny thing is, I didnít find out about affair until 3 months after BD. Up until that point I was taking all the blame for the marriage and validating like crazy. Once I found out, Iím like, hey, Iím not the bad guy here

I spent yesterday pulling financials together. It doesnít benefit me to file yet, and sheís not spending as far as I can tell, so Iím not rushing anything.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 12/27/20 03:05 AM

Hey Nick, just wondering how you're doing and how things are going.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/23/21 04:24 PM

Ok, so Xmas was pretty much normal. Except we didnt go to church, and W(stbxw) and I did not exchange presents. W and I got presents together for kids.

Kids plan a NYE party, and because I'm not detached (still working on it), Im glad because I wont be alone for NYE. So on 12/27 W tells me and kids she is going to NYC for NYE with friends.

Now in September, W went to NYC obstensibely to visit family, but spent most of the time in friends vacant apartment. When she came back she left the marital bed, saying it made her uncomfortable with me. Which means to me, she slept with someone in NY, and really doesnt see herself as wife any more. OK out of MBR you go.

So after she syas she is going to NYC again, I backslide big time and, in private, call her a cheater and even worse things, and say I know she has a boyfriend (I know 2x4 time). We go back and forth, and she says you dont know anything because its not true, you are only pretending to know. I tell her I snooped, and found (in October) the card you got for your boyfriend. The card said,"Just a note to tell you how much I apreciate you, how much I need you, how much I love you" Sickening.

No hesitation her response is, well i never sent it. Without batting an eye. Not that it makes any difference, I ask her to see it. she says she doesnt have it here.

I know, dont believe anything they say but the juvenile and easily disprovable lies that they effortlessly spew still surprises me.

So, the next day she leaves by Uber. To where, I dont know, she could have been shacked up here, and only pretended to go to NY. Doesnt say good bye to kids, doesnt tell kids when she'll be back, dosent commincate with kids at all while away.

NYE party goes well. 2 days later, I ask kids (D17 and D21) when W is coming home, they dont know. So I tell them I'm going to visit some friends in another state, so Ill be gone for a week. I pack up leave and actually away for 2 weeks with NC with W for almost 3 weeks, except at the beginning, I email wife she is going to have to move D21 back to college since Im not there.

Comng back, I stop at colege to see D21, we go out to eat and hang out in my hotel watching the Food channel. Its fun. Take her back home with me on 1/16 since its now D18 birthday. At home W is cordial (roomate like) Me W and Ds go out to dinner for B day, and on 17th have a Bday party at house. During the party Im watching the NFL playoffs, and W starts watching and asking me a lot about one of the teams, so a feel like OM is a fan of that team because she never showed any interest before.

I take D21 back to school on 19th, and am tempted to stay overnight, but I come back home.

On 21st, 5 days after D18 b day, W says we need to get stuff together to go to mediator. I agree. I try to gently ask some questions, because we own a house together and when divorced I probably will leave the area since both Ds will be in college, and employment prospects are limited for me here. Now for Ds benefits, I could work with W to keep house since my Ds will spend time in the area during break and will mean les disruption for them and its a good investment for me. So I ask W what are your plans when we sell house. Her vague answer is get an apartment in our county. Hello, we have a 3300 sq foot house stuffed full of junk. Then I backslide and ask if she is getting married? She laughs and says no.

We live in a really nice neighborhood, we bought at the right time, so any decent aprtment is going to cost more than our current housing payments.

So yesterday W did her usual thing where she gets dressed up to run errands and is gone for 3 to 4 hours. She's been doing this for months, and months ago I told her I knew she was seeing someone. I'm assuming OM is married, because why else would she only vanish for 3 to 4 hours during the day. She is never out at night or overnight. I'm trying to figure out because I feel I would have more power during the negotiations know what cards she is holding. I have no illusions that we are reconciling I am just looking for a soft landing for me and Ds.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/23/21 06:03 PM

Ok, so a couple months ago I was intel gathering (snooping) and I came across something that explained a lot. Her journal from when she was 16 to about 24.I couldnt believe it. Parts of it were she is sad because her father abandoned the family, and why her mther could not keep a husband. I never knew any of this before. Most of the stuff from High School to college was about her and her HS boyfriend, who she is still friends with his family. We got an Xmas card from them this year. A lot of the stuff was waiting for HS boyfriend to call, crying when he went on a ski trip for a week, being angry when he caled late, etc. But a lot of it was them having sex, mainly oral sex in his car, he had a VW Beetle. He called it Buggy Ride. And they would break up, and she would cry and he would come back and have sex, then break up again. This started when she was 16. And this broke my empathy meter. One time he asked for a Buggy Ride (he called it that to her face) , and she did not want to, she performed it anyway. She wrote in her journal she didnt want to, but no one ever listens to her. Sad.

When she gets to her twenties, OMG. Now I have no reason to think my W cheated on me up until now. In fact she told me she was dating 2 other guys when we met, but I might have been OM and not known it. The year after college, she ran through numerous guys in one summer. Total promiscous sex, unprotected, STDs and she doesnt know who she got them from. When former HS boyfriend comes back to town(engaged to someone else), she has sex with him.

She sleeps with her male confidant of many years who's girlfriend is her friend and states in her journal, "We have had feelings for each other for a long time, and even though he has a girlfriend, neither of us regret it." His roomates are all friends and they all know she slept with confidant.

Later, HS boyfriend comes back to town with new fiancee, she has sex in the car with him. Then HS boyfriend (still engaged, but new fiancee) returns to his job in another city, she goes there for a week, stays in his place, and has sex with him.

HS boyfriend for years does this and W is in full pursuit. Calls to him, letters to him and SIL, etc. They are meant to be with each other. HS boyfriend at one time says they are done, but will set her up with one of his friends, and they can all hang out.

At one point, one poor LB boyfriend, who she may her may not have given an STD to is told by W that she has no feelings for him, exactly what she told me. After that and finding the card (see previous post), I knew there was no hope of reconciling.

Now, all this happened years before we met, so while it is shocking I dont hold any of it against her. She was really a loyal and loving partner for 27 years, except that she has a male confidant who she talked about our relationship to. And get this she broke up with her last serious boyfriend before me because he cheated on her, and she hates cheaters.

Hence my MLC diagnosis
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/23/21 06:23 PM

And this goes to something Sandi points out. My W is enthralled with "the note book" and all of those other Nicholas Sparks books and movies. Also the show This is Us. All these movies and shows which show real life as a fantasy, romance never dies or wanes. I'm like, thats not real.
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/23/21 06:47 PM

Hi NickWing,

Is considering how her adolescence, the media she watches, and/or the presence of a mid-life crisis led to this helping you to realize she's done, you need to detach, and it's time to move forward? That's a key question for me with closure activities.. are they helping me to close the door.. or causing me to dwell.

Originally Posted by NickWing
I pack up leave and actually away for 2 weeks with NC with W for almost 3 weeks,

I do see you spending time focused on you and enjoying life with your kids--this is great!
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/23/21 07:29 PM

No man, she's done with me.

In her journal, she told a LB boyfriend she had no feelings for him and poof he was gone. She told me the same thing. Not, my feelings for you have changed, not I feel different, a straight I have no feelings for you. Period.When I read that I knew we were finished in my brain. Heart is getting there but needs a little more convincing. Remember, we were together for 27 years and it doesn't happen overnight.

I have never been the dumper, but I believe Sandi when she says women can only have one man in their heart at the same time, the other guy is history.

Here's something funny. In hopefully our last blow up, W asked if she's so terrible and a cheater, why would you want to be with me. I told her my IC told me the same thing.
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/23/21 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by NickWing
Heart is getting there but needs a little more convincing. Remember, we were together for 27 years and it doesn't happen overnight.

That's rough, going from sharing life with her for 27 years, to hearing she has no feelings for you.

Originally Posted by NickWing
W asked if she's so terrible and a cheater, why would you want to be with me. I told her my IC told me the same thing.

LMAO! I also felt a guilty pleasure when my couples therapist referred to my ex as "out of control". wink It does sound like you're starting to accept it's over and realizing this is necessary and right for you.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/23/21 10:38 PM

Yeah, ask DnJ about that, the no feelings comment actually physically hurt me, it felt like a punch. She actually told me that on BD day and then later. I could not wrap my head around it.

LH and Sandi explain it. Her unhappiness is due to me. Me being around keeps out OM who gives her hapiness.

Way before BD, I realized I was unhappy. Not with her but life. So I did a bunch of things that made me happy, like travel to colege football games. And then I was happy.

She was unhappy, and sought out someone to make her happy. In her journal, you can see it. First this guy is great, they have awesome sex, then some part of reality intrudes, she leaves. HS boyfriend (True Love) comes back, she's happy. He dumps her again, Now time to find a new guy. Over and over again.

Recently, prior BD) we were having arguments because I felt she was not figuring things out that she was consistently relying on me to fix and solve everything. I actually told her I am not your Dad, I am not your boss, I am not your teacher, you need to figure this out. The most recent was Covid unemployment benefits last April. She was furloughed and we were paying all bills out of my retirement account, which had taken a huge hit in the stock market. She does nothing. I inform her that she is eligible, how do you not know that?

So I tell her she needs to apply. She says I heard the website doesnt work.

Nick Well did you try to log in

W No, but Ill do it tomorrow

Next day

Nick: Were you able to get on today

W: No actually didnt try:

Nick: Ok, lets both go on tomorrow at 4 and see if we can do it together

W:Ok

Next day

Nick: Ok lets do this

W: Actually I went on before and did it, it was actually pretty easy.

Now that benefit was about $2400 a month, but no effort at all. Hence frustration and resentment.


Well, jokes on me, you dont have to figure things out, just find a new OM.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/23/21 10:53 PM

And necessary or not, its happening.

Summer, 2019 driving on vacation.

D21: Sometimes I have anxiety

D18: Me too

Nick: Yeah me too

W: Never

Both D21 and D18: Yeah, thats because Dad has to figure everything out!!
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/24/21 04:13 PM

Also CW, she told me when I touch her itís like stranger touching her. That one hurt too.
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/24/21 04:49 PM

"Stranger"--yikes! If she's not going to say Fabio, at least say "But when I kiss you, it's like I'm kissing... my brother." Unless she has a thing for tall dark strangers, then "Stranger" is okay.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/24/21 05:36 PM

Yeah, the old self esteem took a hit this year.
Posted By: 97Hope

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/24/21 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by NickWing
Yeah, the old self esteem took a hit this year.


When your SE has nothing to do with her, it will come back better than ever.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/24/21 07:07 PM

Well, when I found out about the OM, I actually felt better about myself in a weird way because it made me realize that she's messed up, that the marriage falling apart was not about me. I'm not perfect, but put my family first. Right now her needs are first, and everybody else's are way behind.

My IC thinks that W has low self esteem/high ego. She gets a lot of compliments on her work our family, her looks, etc. The one place she fell short was admin stuff, paying bills, following up with vet, things like that. And I was critical of her about that because I always his to pick u the slack, and resentment built on both are parts.

IC told me high Ego people cannot be wrong, always have to be right. Well in 27 years my W has tld me she's sorry or wrong twice. Thats not an exaggeration. Twice in 27 years. Kids were teasing her a whie ago because she was clearly wrong about something and could not even admit it to them.

And here's one I feel guilty about. About 25 years ago, W wrecked new to us car, completely her fault. When I got home she told me about it and I ws pretty cool about it but of course was not happy. So instad of her saying"Nick, I wrecked the car, it was my fault, Im sorry" She performed oral sex on me. I felt bad about it at the time and should has stopped because she was degrading herself but I didnt. So even with whats going on today and her abusive behavior, I stil feel bad about it.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/26/21 08:58 PM

And just the other day STBXW gave the one credit card in my name that just came in on her account? WTF. We are disentangling, separatig finances. Why would you give me credit card for your account? I cut up all the credit cards in my account with her name on it.

Nothing for her has changed and won't until the papers are filed and I move out. Some of the finer points of the split haven't been nailed down yet, so any info i can glean miight put me in a better negotiating point.

Some of the vets called that the pre divorce talk she had with kids as her way to up game with OM. I think resulted in the NYE "trip" which I think was just some shack job.

Oh, and she and D21 are planinng on painting D21s room purple this summer, except we are selling in the fall.

Can they all be this mixed up? She BD me in June, I find about OM in October, we have the pre divorce talk in December, and now the lets file talk in Jan.

Ive asked her repeatedly to move out, and she has the money to do so. According to her, she is getting an aprtment in September, why not move out now. The only thing can think of is she does not want to be the bad guy, the person that moved out. IS OM promising to leave his wife for her? Won't my kids pick up on that there is a new guy in town pretty quick?

W's relationship with kids is good, business is taking off, romantic life seems to be fulfilling,

And JoesphS said this to Steven in another thread

SHE.DOES.CARE.ABOUT.YOU. I'm not quite there by but I'm approaching.The three weeks NC were liberating. After we file I might see her 10 times in my life and Im fine with that
Posted By: LH19

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/27/21 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by NickWing
And just the other day STBXW gave the one credit card in my name that just came in on her account? WTF. We are disentangling, separatig finances. Why would you give me credit card for your account? I cut up all the credit cards in my account with her name on it.

Don't waste an ounce of energy trying to figure out a WW.
Originally Posted by NickWing
Nothing for her has changed and won't until the papers are filed and I move out. Some of the finer points of the split haven't been nailed down yet, so any info i can glean miight put me in a better negotiating point.

What kind of info are you looking for. How will this help you negotiate?
Originally Posted by NickWing
Some of the vets called that the pre divorce talk she had with kids as her way to up game with OM. I think resulted in the NYE "trip" which I think was just some shack job.

ok sooooooo.????????????
Originally Posted by NickWing
Oh, and she and D21 are planinng on painting D21s room purple this summer, except we are selling in the fall.

Well hopefully that helps you get more money for it.
Originally Posted by NickWing
Can they all be this mixed up? She BD me in June, I find about OM in October, we have the pre divorce talk in December, and now the lets file talk in Jan.

YES!
Originally Posted by NickWing
Ive asked her repeatedly to move out, and she has the money to do so. According to her, she is getting an aprtment in September, why not move out now. The only thing can think of is she does not want to be the bad guy, the person that moved out. IS OM promising to leave his wife for her? Won't my kids pick up on that there is a new guy in town pretty quick?

Wasted energy Nick. Cheeseless tunnels
Originally Posted by NickWing
W's relationship with kids is good, business is taking off, romantic life seems to be fulfilling,

For now
Originally Posted by NickWing
SHE.DOES.CARE.ABOUT.YOU. I'm not quite there by but I'm approaching.The three weeks NC were liberating. After we file I might see her 10 times in my life and Im fine with that

Was this a typo?
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/27/21 03:59 PM

No typo, just me telling myself that she is over me.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/27/21 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by NickWing
No typo, just me telling myself that she is over me.


I think LH's point is that you say "SHE.DOES.CARE.ABOUT.YOU." instead of "SHE.DOES.NOT.CARE.ABOUT.YOU."
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/27/21 04:27 PM

Omg, no man does NOT care. Not in the slightest.

Yeah big typo.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/27/21 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by NickWing


My IC thinks that W has low self esteem/high ego. She gets a lot of compliments on her work our family, her looks, etc. The one place she fell short was admin stuff, paying bills, following up with vet, things like that. And I was critical of her about that because I always his to pick u the slack, and resentment built on both are parts.

IC told me high Ego people cannot be wrong, always have to be right. Well in 27 years my W has tld me she's sorry or wrong twice. Thats not an exaggeration. Twice in 27 years. Kids were teasing her a whie ago because she was clearly wrong about something and could not even admit it to them.

And here's one I feel guilty about. About 25 years ago, W wrecked new to us car, completely her fault. When I got home she told me about it and I ws pretty cool about it but of course was not happy. So instad of her saying"Nick, I wrecked the car, it was my fault, Im sorry" She performed oral sex on me. I felt bad about it at the time and should has stopped because she was degrading herself but I didnt. So even with whats going on today and her abusive behavior, I stil feel bad about it.


This sounds just like my WW...

Right down to the bills and admin stuff - Then when they get it wrong or forget to do something, they blame you for being controlling or now showing them how to do it properly..

Best thing i ever did was get away from her. People how cannot be wrong or take responsibility are not good partners. Move on and enjoy life !
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/27/21 05:53 PM

Thats one of the big things that led to the downfall of the marriage. I needed her to be more responsible, but could have should have approached it better. I used to refer to her as my 50 year old teenager. Not too nice, huh?

To her credit, she was not a frivolous spender, just irresponsible. And have you ever heard this kind of story. She came to me one night and needed access to my bank account onine because hers had not been set up yet. She needed to pay an AMEX bill that was due that night. So I give the codes and she pays the bill.

Then next month there is a $400 charge for AMEX and I think OK its another bill. Then 3 days later anothe $200. So I ask whats going on. She told me its the AMEX bill and she doesnt know exactly what was owed. I tld her to wait until the bill came at the end of the month and we would pay it it full.

Next month $200 here, $300 there. Finally, I siad I am closing this account unless you stop doing that. SHe finally stopped.

I had to be home for every home repair, because the repairman would say "Do this, it's important" When I get home and ask her what was said, she would say, uhh, I forgot.

So six months after BD, I can see how all that poisoned the marriage, resentment built up on both sides. ANd in the grand scheme of things, how hard was it to call the repairman and ask what the issue was.

Boy, when those rose colored glasses come of, they come off.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/27/21 07:13 PM

Well STBXW just called. She is having a mediator send over paperwork. The one time in her life she has been organized.
Posted By: LH19

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/27/21 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by NickWing
Well STBXW just called. She is having a mediator send over paperwork. The one time in her life she has been organized.

Yep. Crazy how they can then get their $hit together. Chin up Nicky Winger this is all part of the process.
Posted By: OnlyBent

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/27/21 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by MrBrside
This sounds just like my WW...

Right down to the bills and admin stuff - Then when they get it wrong or forget to do something, they blame you for being controlling or now showing them how to do it properly..

Best thing i ever did was get away from her. People how cannot be wrong or take responsibility are not good partners. Move on and enjoy life !


Must be something about this personality that is conducive to Waywardness. This is my STBXW to a tee.
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/27/21 08:12 PM

Well, Im not doing medation until we agree on some terms. Mediation is only appropriate where both sides are honest.She has some agenda driving this, she wants it done now. Well, it;s going to cost her. She can half of 1/2 of everything and most of the house but I am fighting for my pension. I retired in December 2019, 6 months before BD. Finished my career with no thought of working again Now all of the sudden she wants 1/2 my pension and all of her business?
Posted By: LH19

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/27/21 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by NickWing
Well, Im not doing medation until we agree on some terms. Mediation is only appropriate where both sides are honest.She has some agenda driving this, she wants it done now. Well, it;s going to cost her. She can half of 1/2 of everything and most of the house but I am fighting for my pension. I retired in December 2019, 6 months before BD. Finished my career with no thought of working again Now all of the sudden she wants 1/2 my pension and all of her business?

Nick try to negotiate the terms ahead of time. Try to use her guilt against her. Do everything to try to protect your pension but know legally she is entitled to half of it.
Posted By: LH19

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/27/21 08:19 PM

Start a new thread
Posted By: NickWing

Re: Best Friend for 27 years in MLC - 01/27/21 08:38 PM

Im beginning to think we arent best friends any more. Boy that hapened quick!

New Thread:

Best Friend for 27 years in MLC part 2
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