Steve right now she has zero doubt. That can change if you change. If you don't; she may comeback but it would only be temporary.
Absolutely right again LH. That is what has always occurred. It reminds me of something CW says, quoting his Green Beret friend.
"The strongest negotiating position is to be able to walk away and never look back" That's what Im trying my best to do. Its been a couple weeks since I have made zero effort to fix this. And I know that her saying "I am not sure anymore" about her choice last night was a test to see if Ill jump right back into wanting to get her back. I did not, didn't even respond to it. If she never feels the loss, she has zero reason to change. Im the one feeling the loss and that's why I am doing things different. That's why im here, because I don't want to live this way anymore
Hey Steve,
Have you ever entertained the idea that maybe you are in love with a fantasy in your mind where your W is caring, honest, has integrity, is empathic, and would be loyal to the end?
If your W has had 5 affairs, I’d bet my bottom dollar she’s a narcissist. And if she is a narcissist, there’s absolutely nothing you can or should do to keep her in your life. She will be this way until the day she dies.
It took me a long time to take my rose tinted glasses off in my sitch.
I would also highly recommend you do some Google searches on recovery from a narcissistic breakup.
Okay, let's put our heads together and come up with a plan for you to use the next time she pushes your button in a text message. B/c it will happen again! She's like a cat playing with a mouse. She will try many things to get a reaction from you. Even a negative reaction from you is better than ignoring her........in her opinion.
So, the past 24 hrs have been emotionally difficult for you. I would guess you were saving up emotional spit and all she had to do was press enter, and you exploded words everywhere.
Where were you, or what were you doing when you read her message?
How quickly did you text her back?
As I said, you can expect texting from her. She is going to contact you! Just b/c you've told her you won't respond unless it's regarding the kids, doesn't mean she intends to cooperate. No, she is going to push every button possible.
First, you need to do something to calm down when you see her text. Set your timer for how ever long it usually takes for you to get control over those urges to tell to reply.
If possible, start doing some physical exercises, at that moment. Really pour your frustration and resentment into those body exercises. Go for a run, or whatever requires a lot of energy. (Of course, if you are in a vehicle, you can't do push-ups very well.)
Have a pretend conversation where you tell her off. If need be, go to the bathroom or bedroom mirror, and talk to your own reflection. This may sound crazy, but it helps in relieving that powerful rush of emotional energy, urging you to reply to her. It helps to talk you off the ledge, so to speak.
Concentrate on your breathing. Take long, deep & slow breaths.
Come to the board and talk to us about it. Pour it all out here. If you've bookmarked certain posts with advice, read back over it.
I understand the temptation to have your say, but there are no words as powerful and no words at all. See, whether you realize it not, you appear as if you think you can teach her by
explaining that all of this is the result of her waywardness. You want her to see how things won't be like they once were. You want her to realize what she's done. It doesn't work, Steve. You can't rationalize with looney-tunes. You can't teach her through words. If you'll read the initial threads of all the LBH's on the board, you'll see they tried holding class for their WW's, too, and it had no effect.
Oh, and she's playing you big time when she utters, "I am not sure anymore". Your mind goes into over-drive, b/c you desperately want her back, and you cling to every little things she says. You set yourself up for more disappointment and pain. Remember what I'm about to tell you. Everything from your WW at this point, is either to temperature check to see how much you are still attached, and/or she's intentionally pushing your buttons to get a reaction/response. You cannot take stock in these games of hers. Stop telling her you aren't going to talk to her unless it's about the kids. Just enforce it.
You need sources that feed you mentally/emotionally/spiritually in a positive way. I'm not saying everything you read/hear has to leave you feeling as if you've had laughing gas, but it gives you what you need to grow and develop new relationship skills......and life skills. It takes strength to change your old patterns and develop new & better ones. I really believe you are going to make it, Steve. You'll have slip-ups sometimes, but you have to get back on that saddle and ride again (as cowboys say).
Don't let this slip-up keep you down. (BTW, I'm glad you shared it with us.) Just learn from it, and have a plan to for the next time. A lot of self discipline is needed when you decide to stop pursuing a WW.
I get where your going with it. In 5 years in psych care ive yet to see any DX of NPD. It is far far more rare than the internet would have you believe. Sure people have narcissitic traits but a full on Dx is rare.
I don't know that my wife is a narcissist, but I do know she is definitely struggling with the lack of a moral compass. I know she isn't compassionate, honest or loyal. Which is why ive been able to push her away from me this time and not chase chase chase as I usually do. The way this ended for us was the wrongest way possible for her to do and I see a huge corruption in her character. She sees it too but laughs it off, calls herself the ice queen. She enjoys hurting people for her ego and self affirmation. She is not healthy as a person. I get that. I believe people can change but never until the pain of staying the same forces them to. She isn't even close yet.
Sandi, I was just watching some Tv in my new place. Started a new show called "the 100" to help me keep my mind off stuff. When she said that I responded to her calmly and In a way that pretty much said, "you know I didn't tell him that, this is the way it is now" and that's when I got tossed the breadcrumb "im not sure anymore" I see it for what it is. She fully expected me to be like "you can still turn this around, ill do XXXX to fix it, etc..."
I did not. And I don't plan on responding to that crap anymore. It was just an accusation to see if I would get angry/beg/etc.. I didn't pass that test but I did keep my emotions under control.
Oh and I waited about an hour to respond.
I did not reply at all to her "im not so sure anymore" It was hard, I wanted to dig into it with
"what do you mean" but she would give half-ass answers anyhow. Nothing true. I don't believe
her words anymore only actions.
I thought it would be nice to leave her saying to me last "im not sure anymore" in the text. Felt
like letting her have that as a last word put a smile on my face. Not taking that bait. Havent said a word in 16 hours
the less I say the less she reaches out and then has to come up with something. Since ive addressed that I don't tell the kids anything I can ignore that from now on without feeling the need to defend. My silence will be my best friend now. For my own sanity. I don't owe her any explainations, this was her choice not mine. I see that. Thank you. Only time *might* teach her the lesson here, I cant. And I did see a lot of LBS trying to no effect. Im not gonna go that way, again its a waste of time nobody change her but her.
Not a single word today. Just left her text “I’m not so sure anymore” right where it was. Radio silence.
My in laws were kinda disappointed I went to my apartment today. I need space. And her mom got it. My Mom told me her mom cried in AZ that she has to move away now and it’s my W’s fault. Just a few months ago we’re we’re so sure and she was so happy and beautiful decorating that new home. It’s sad. She hurt a lot more than just me. That’s her cross to bear. It really helped me to hear that LH I gotta focus on me. And Sandi when you said she is the loser here you are so right. She has to live with this the rest of her life and I don’t. I sort of pity her. Yet another new girl at work gives me googly eyes and touches me, looks at me too long. Catch her staring. It feels nice but I’m not even close. As LH said it will take probably at least a year until I’m healthy enough and knowing me It may be longer. I’m okay with it. It’s hard it really is. I’m really sad for the loss of what might be. As Thornton said I was I love with what she could be not what she is. Not a single one of the people I tell my story to side with her. And I leave my faults in too. It helps but I still miss her. I still love her. And I know I should not but when I love a person I really do. And I shouldn’t be ashamed of that. My mom got me some pots and pans. My friends want to help. You guys are here. So many have my back. I know I’m a good man. Sure I made mistakes with NGS and so on but it’s not something I can’t fix. I’ll read 3% Man until I memorize it, I’ll read the rational male over and over too. I’ll get better. But it will take time. I really loved this woman deeply. My biggest regret is not showing it. She did need that and I admit I let her down. But I’m not a bad man, her choices are on her and at the end of the day, I’m glad I am not her. I would feel like such a POS to do what she is doing. I could never do it. And that’s why I am different than her. I will let her go, slowly, quietly and with a lot of pain. But I will let her go. It’s what you do when you love someone, you let them be free. That is uncontainable love. And I do love her that way. It hurts me to see her make these mistakes but I know she needs it. And I will be ok. Thank you all for following me. One more day of radio silence and I’m doing better than yesterday.
Its great to see your development Steve! Mentally and in your actions.
Keep moving forward!
We're here Steve, a day at a time mate!
Keep focussing on what you can do to become the man that YOU want to be. Whilst you're doing great with the radio silence, let's start to see more and more Steve posts that don't contain the word 'her'.
Just for the record because you mentioned it I think you are at least 2 years probably longer away from being able to be in a healthy relationship. I’m not sure I have ever seen anyone with a more unhealthy attachment to another human being. I’m afraid it is going to take some intense therapy for you to break this attachment. This woman cares zero about you and preys on your weakness. I can understand her wanted to break away from your guys toxic relationship, but to mess with you in the process is just mean and sadistic. You have to forget about recon Steve and save yourself.
Yep, not what I want to hear but it’s true.
Wife texted me at 1am asking me "are you okay"?
I waited about 5 hours and responded this:
-"Your laying next to him in our bed and now you care if im okay? No, you dont.
You made your choice, I hope your happy with it."
It seriously pissed me off that she had the nerve to even ask me that. She is trying to relieve her guilt. Not going to let her use me like that. I probably shouldnt have responded but that just seriously pissed me off in a like "how dare you even ask" kinda way. I wanted to say much worse but I did not. I know I cant do that again. I will stick to radio silence.
Yet, you let her...
There’s a need to be consistent with our boundaries. If you fall in the trap, reset the counter and start again...
LH told you that up here, on this page.
The sooner you start DBing the sooner you release yourself from your pain. Where’s your GAL? Go for a walk, read a book.
Stand strong there Steve. Be patient, start DBing.
Wife texted me at 1am asking me "are you okay"?
Classic WW tempt check.
I waited about 5 hours and responded this:
I'm glad you could wait 5 hrs before you responded,
if it's part of your plan in calming emotions and controlling your impulse to respond. IDK, since you didn't say. However, let's clarify something. NC doesn't mean "waiting" so many hours before responding. You've told her you wouldn't talk to her unless it was about the kids. So, she baits you and gets exactly want she wanted. Look below:
"Your laying next to him in our bed and now you care if im okay? No, you dont.
You made your choice, I hope your happy with it."
You have "victim" plastered all over this response. You're trying to make her feel bad, but it's not working. It just makes you unattractive. You wanted to say much worse, b/c that's you wanting to fire back at the one who is hurting you.
It seriously pissed me off that she had the nerve to even ask me that. She is trying to relieve her guilt. Not going to let her use me like that. I probably shouldnt have responded but that just seriously pissed me off in a like "how dare you even ask" kinda way. I wanted to say much worse but I did not. I know I cant do that again. I will stick to radio silence.
#1......it doesn't matter that you were pissed off! You'll remain pissed until you let go of her. Emotions do not give you a pass to repeat the same old action. Get it? You reacted to your emotions. She's better at this game, than you are, so I suggest you stop playing. She only pretends to be concerned, b/c she wants you to be her BFF.
#2.....stop kidding yourself about her guilt. You want her to feel guilty.....b/c then it would make more sense to you.
#3.....your words let her know that you are still very attached, and that she can emotionally manipulate you. She knows she hasn't lost you. When will you decide (through actions) that she has lost you?
#4.....how many times are you going to vow to stick to radio silence, and then cave when she asks if you are okay?
#5.....why didn't you come talk to the board before you replied to her? My guess is you didn't want talked out of it. You knew you were going to wait around and then reply.
Every time you respond, you have to start over. Your words didn't hurt her, nor shock her out of waywardness. I want you to get this, b/c many LBH's think they can something powerful enough to make the WW stop and realize what she's doing. She
owned you during those 5 hrs of waiting.
So, what's the plan next time? B/c there
will be a next time, and a next, and a next.
Steve, you know you shouldn’t have replied, but you let your emotions control your actions, something you know you need to be exert control of in your life at some point, so start now, from this moment on. Don’t feel bad because I’m sure everyone here has done something similar, do feel bad if you don’t learn the lesson and keep doing the same thing over and over. You know that your reply was not going to help in anyway, you know that.
Sandi, one question, what happens when there isn’t a next time, when the temp checks stop?
I’ll answer that for you Bent. LBS are so desperate for anything they actually think temp checks are good. Temp checks are nothing but manipulation to keep the LBS emotionally attached because they are so fuching selfish that they don’t want the LBS but they want the to want them.
The goal is to get to a place where you see the temp check and just laugh. You are making progress but got a ways to go. Steve has a really really long way to go.
Later on in the day she told me
“You need to call your son, I’m tired of him disrespecting me”
I did not respond. I will not respond. I have nothing to say anymore. I’m tired of backsliding. I can’t keep doing it. I’m just doing a little better and going back. Can’t do that anymore. It’s just hurting me over and over and over and giving her what she wants... attention. F that. I’m done with this crap. I feel so stupid for responding this morning not going to keep doing this to myself. Anger or not nothing I say matters to her and it just makes me feel stupid now.
Steve,
Let’s start with baby steps. Let’s try to go one day without you posting what she texted you and the meaning you put behind the text. Total waste of time and energy.
Again Steve, start committing to you path and your goals!
Sometimes communicating your goals to someone can help commitment.
“You need to call your son, I’m tired of him disrespecting me”
This comment should really be enough though. Those type of comments make me so angry.
I say throw your moron of a W away for good and never look back.
That right there is IMO enough for you to pursue FULL custody. I know most wont agree but it is my opinion.
Hi Mumin,
The default in the USA is 50/50 custody.
Barring child abuse, felonies, or other extenuating circumstances.. most parents get that. The above doesn't look good and Steve may want to begin collecting quotes/actions negative to the kids. I do have a hard time imagining any judge stripping her of all or even equal custody over that text, but the previous episodes of cursing at the kids would also weigh against her. Joseph's thread is a good model for that. He slowly gathered evidence, and now has the kids most or all of the time. With my ex-wife, I was able to document two more dramatic incidents, which set the stage for me having majority custody for 8-10 years.
Yep not going to take custody away from mom without me documenting months of neglect or abuse. But i will begin doing so.
She continued to use the children as an excuse, face times me and then gets mad when I dont answer.
Just said, "call them on thier ipads or text me ahead of time and ill put them on the phone with you, but you can call them anytime"
She has this surgery coming up so ill have them from the 18th to the 24th. needed to iron that out before then so there is no back and forth nonsense.
Totally agree on that CW and thank you for clearing this up!
It just makes me so angry to see such reckless parents so I wanted to state MY opinion.
Steve, if you arent, collect all questionable interactions as CW said. Date and a description of what happend.
Yep its gonna get worse I can see it now. Ill document as things happen.
Good Steve.
I see we posted simultaneously.
"but you can call them anytime" Do you really mean this? Can she call them whenever she wants on "your days"?
"but you can call them anytime"
That also got my attention. The focus in my custody schedule is on the kids, not my ex-wife. My ex-wife can't call my kids anytime. My kids can call my ex-wife anytime.
If she wants to talk to the kids it doesn't bother me. And yeah the kids can call her on thier ipads if they want to whenever. its not a big deal. If anything becomes an issue i got no problem restricting it more on my days. Not too worried about it.
Makes sense! IIRC, Joseph only began tightening up on that when her contacts hurt the kids. With my ex-wife, even though she's not entitled to talk to the kids, I can't recall ever denying her access.
Hey Steve, I’ve been following you along behind the scenes with others. I don’t put my 2 cents into a lot because I’m still going through the paces. Anywho I think I can offer you some advice here as I was in denial about a lot of the reasons I broke no contact and was in denial about the part I played in my life coming undone at the seems. Also as CW has pointed out I do have my kids 100% of the time due to neglect and abuse.
So...let’s start out with you need to accept your role in this. It maybe as easy as admitting you are where you are because you did allow her to cheat 4 or 5 times. You need to be honest with yourself. She doesn’t love you. She doesn’t respect you. Accidents or mistakes happen. People are imperfect. However patterns are not accidents or mistakes. Taking her back after the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th one isn’t an accident either, but it was a mistake.
She continues to contact you not because she loves or respects you, and she certainly doesn’t miss you. But because you allow it. Because she enjoys the response she gets out of you. And you are nothing more than her back up plan safe space. This doesn’t hold true for everyone on this board. But in my opinion it absolutely holds true for you. If she wanted to come back and you allowed it, you will go through this again.
This is just the beginning. She will get more bombastic with the reasons to contact you. She’ll than give you time to recover. You’ll let your guard down. She may come at you with the lets be friends talk. But try to remember, would she break even a friend the way she’s broken you through out the relationship? She’ll find whatever reason because again, you are the back up plan and safe space. No other reason.
Now this doesn’t mean you aren’t worthy of love or respect. Not at all! And that’s where divorce busting is crucial. It allows you to fix yourself. Heal your heart and mind. Help you realize you are worthy of more. And it does help you understand the mistakes you made. For some people that comes into play with the 2 act of their marriage. For some others like me and I pray yourself it helps you become a better partner in the next relationship.
Now, this does get easier with time, but nothing worth while is instantaneous. I use to close my eyes, and wake up 5 mins later because I could hear her talking to me. Thing was, she wasn’t there. I dreamed every night for a month about her. And woke up every day for a month thinking she was home. I did myself no favors by “being the nice guy” and allowing her to continue to play with my heart and head. Because I didn’t respect myself enough to stop someone from walking all over me, why and how could I expect someone else to respect me that way when I didn’t respect myself.
As far as the kids go, I have full custody because I found out later there was physical abuse. And truth be told I was so screwed up in the head I didn’t wanna believe it at first. That’s a hard truth to admit. Start documenting everything. You and your children need to come first. Be their rock. Be their constant. Because no matter how bad you feel right now, your children’s entire figurative and literal world was just rocked and and turned upside down. Love them harder than you ever thought possible. Be that constant. Be that place they can exhale and feel peace.
If you suspect there is abuse I encourage you to have it investigated. By whatever means you feel necessary. However please be sure that there is cause for concern. Unfortunately I have had a few personal guy friends see my situation and than tried to use allegations of abuse that were false as threats. A horrible spouse doesn’t necessarily mean a bad parent. Even the spouse who’s at total fault in the destruction of their marriage can get stressed. With that said my “friends” literally weaponized their children. Needless to say we aren’t friends anymore. I’m not saying that’s what’s happening here even for a moment. Not at all, but be prepared, because you more than likely will be accused of that. So again, be diligent and sure and keep things documented.
I’ll keep an eye out on your thread. If you have any questions feel free to ask. And I’ll jump in if I think I could be of some value. But just remember I’m not a professional and I and not a veteran of this board. But I do hope to help people when I can.
Lastly an attorney is the best way to keep no contact. And can be a god send.
I stopped saying anything to her. It’s been 3 days. She reached out, told me she missed me, told me she wasn’t sure if this is what she wanted. She had surgery yesterday and will be messed up for a week. Don’t even know what To say to all that. I simply said “well you keep doing it?” She said “I’m in too deep now” I just told her “that’s an excuse, you had no problem making us sell our home and filing divorce on me, stop playing games with me, you have until Monday To make up your mind, you keep saying you want out over and over well now is your chance before you dig the hole deeper and the kids find out, I’ll help you get out but if you don’t make up your mind by then I’m walking away and never looking back” haven’t said a word to her since then. She calls me face time I put the kids on the phone and stay off it. I don’t speak and I don’t reply. I have nothing left to say.
I mean it 100%. I can’t do this anymore. I am ready to let go and get on with my life. This is BS. I’ve done everything I can to allow her to correct this mistake. If she doesn’t take it fine. I began cutting her out of my life and she knows that which is why she is trying to keep me on a leash. I refused going to her sisters for dinner. I don’t want to be part of her family anymore. Now or never no more excuses. I get to hold my head up high if she says no. And I don’t have t have the shame and regret she will have. That’s good enough for me. I never cut her off or gave an ultimatum. I was always too weak to do that. This time I don’t care anymore. I’m just tired of this. At this point I could care less what happens, I just want it to be over.
I don’t understand. You keep enabling her. She knows she could always run back to you.
This is not a “mistake” to correct. This is the 5th time and an awful character flaw. Unless she does some serious work without you being willing to take her back opened armed, you guys are doomed to repeat this cycle over and over and over again.
I have no doubts of that Ginger.
But she keeps giving me this fake remorse crap. Telling me she doesn’t want to decide and doesn’t know. So I’m pushing her into a corner. She will chose him I’m sure of it and then it can be over. That’s all I want now. For her to realize she has to decide and live with it. I was too weak this whole time, I have to draw a line in the sand and be willing to not look back. I am ready now. I was not before. The more days that pass she disgusts me, disappoints me, I just want it to be over and her to stop flip-flopping. I am beginning to hate her. So I need the back and forth to end. On my terms not hers. That’s all this is about. Taking my power back having the respect for myself that is why the ultimatum. I know it won’t go the way I want already. I just want a clean break. I told her answer me “yes or no” no more words, no more time. I’ll let you know what she says in 4 days. Otherwise I don’t speak to her I just hang out with my kids. I have not backslid on that.
But why are you pushing her into a corner? I don’t understand. You can decide it’s over. Not her. This is not taking your power back. This is actually you being weak. Make her decide when she’s on the fence and not truly committed to the marriage? If she says “yeah, I’ll come back” it’s a matter of time before she is gone again.
This is so toxic. What would tell your own children in this situation ?
Steve,
Would it help if you framed it as-- she ALREADY HAS chosen him?
She's moved out. IIRC she's living with another man. She's filed for divorce.
Actions, not words.
You just put her back in the driver's seat and handed her your leash by giving her until Monday. Taking your power back would be making the decision on your own to stop caring about where she is and what she's doing, and actually taking actions to move on and get on with your life.
Look, I totally get it. In my sitch I wasn't able to be the one to pull the trigger on breaking up the family. (Still am not.) Is that where you are?
If that's the case... man, I'm really sorry. But... she's the one who is breaking up your family, not you. She's left you. She's filed for divorce. She's had five affairs. She's gone again. You are not responsible for this. She is. But you're enabling this behavior.
What could she possibly do this time to prove to you it is different, if she did decide Monday to come back? And how long would you be waiting for the other shoe to drop and her to find her next AP? Your kids are already involved, now. Is it best for them to have mom come back and then leave again in six months? And then rinse, repeat?
If I were you, I'd spend the next four days working on your plans for how you will stand strong when you don't get the answer you want. (And, what *is* the answer you want? My guess is she's going to say something just ambiguous enough to keep stringing you along, her surgery, the kids, something along those lines.)
I can’t do this anymore. I am ready to let go and get on with my life.
Great. How can you take these words and make them into actions for yourself?
This is super, super hard. But you can do it.
I don’t plan on her coming back. I feel like that chance is 10% at best. I’m okay with that. But I am not okay with her going forward and having me as an option. I’ve made too many mistakes and allowed it. I have to clear the board. That’s what this is about.
You are only an option if you allow yourself to be an option. Remove yourself from the equation.
I don’t plan on her coming back. I feel like that chance is 10% at best. I’m okay with that. But I am not okay with her going forward and having me as an option. I’ve made too many mistakes and allowed it. I have to clear the board. That’s what this is about.
Then why are you giving her a choice to make you an option. It's time for you to walk, Steve. I think the problem is that you are hurting so much right now, that you are willing to take her back at the drop of a hat. You even mentioned in a post above " I’m just tired of this. At this point I could care less what happens, I just want it to be over." You're willing to settle for her and her $hitty behavior just so you can make this all stop...
She is like a tumor that you just had removed and you're dealing with the post op pain. It hurts and right now you 're thinking you would rather still have the tumor than be dealing with the pain. The pain will go away eventually, and you'll be glad that tumor is gone one day.
Your frame of mind on the above quote " I’m just tired of this. At this point I could care less what happens, I just want it to be over." should be Steve is tired of playing these games and is moving on with his life without the baggage and pain his WW has been bringing to the table for the past several years. That Steve doesn't need an ultimatum, because that Steve is strong and know what he wants and what he's worth. That Steve is in charge because she doesn't get an opinion in what happens. That bridge has burned, buddy. I guarantee that if she showed up and cried her eyes out and swore her loyalty to you and said she screwed up, you'd take her back immediately. And that makes me sad...
I totally understand the honor in wanting to keep your family together and being true to your end of the commitment. I've been there. Just eating $hit sandwich after $hit sandwich thinking it was somehow noble and I was doing the right thing. I did a lot of the dumb stuff you're doing thinking and praying it would make a difference. Just have to wait this out and she'll come around. I told myself that everyday. Eventually, it became obvious that the relationship was BEYOND unhealthy and I was too blinded to see it. So I had a choice. Keep eating $hit sandwiches and setting the example for my children it's OK for your spouse to lie, cheat, steal, and be disrespectful or move on to be happy and give my kids a healthy upbringing. I finally chose the latter...
But she keeps giving me this fake remorse crap. Telling me she doesn’t want to decide and doesn’t know.
So I’m pushing her into a corner. She will chose him I’m sure of it and then it can be over. That’s all I want now. For her to realize she has to decide and live with it.
Hi Steve, that's only in your imagination, she did choose him, and she doesn't have to choose to give you up as Plan F. It's common for a WWS to be ambiguous, ask for more time, or throw breadcrumbs. All you've done is told her she has
at least five more days to enjoy her new boyfriend while preserving you as her Plan F.
I say Plan F because she's cheated on you--what--six times? This guy might be Plan A, but her Plan B/C/D/E are probably (history tends to repeat itself) to find OM7/8/9/10--not to end up with you.
The issue isn’t that I don’t see what she is. The issue is that I haven’t been able to until now. She has played the “I’m not sure” “I haven’t moved all my stuff” “the kids stuff is still there” and I played the “well figure this out” and blame myself for all of it. Neither one of us was ready to accept there is no turning back. This is why she bread crumbs me until she is totally comfortable and this is why I continue to allow myself to be played. That is why I’m doing this. It has to end. The moment she left she said “we can get remarried” she has had it in her mind this isn’t final. I know it makes no sense. But I have to do this for our lives to change. This limbo must end. I know her. In her mind she still has me and that has to stop. She has to say it to feel it. Believe me I know her. She has never said it and meant it. Once I found out about OM it’s been nothing but “I don’t know” and “I miss you.” I cannot move on with that. I need this. Stupid? Maybe, unhealthy? Maybe.. but I know my W and she has to make the choice now that her secret is unraveled. That is what it will take for us to move on. She has never been able to do that. It is neccesary. And painful but I’m ready.
In her mind she still has me and that has to stop. She has to say it to feel it. [S]he has to make the choice now that her secret is unraveled. That is what it will take for us to move on. She has never been able to do that. It is neccesary. And painful but I’m ready.
Steve, you don't control her. She doesn't have to say it just because you want her to.
”for us to move on”, is an impossible sentence.
There is no ”us”.
I think it's cruel that your W says she misses you, that's emotional abuse IMO. It's just a ploy to keep you from moving on, not because she loves you, but because she's a master manipulator.
In her ideal world, she wants to be with OM (or several OM) while you pine away for her. That's not love.
I've been here for years and I don't think I've seen a WW as bad as yours is. 5 affairs? She's trash.
My advice, divorce her and never look back. After you heal, you will find a woman that will treat you the way you deserve to be treated. Meanwhile, your WW will be hopping from bed to bed, which apparently she's really good at.
I stopped saying anything to her. It’s been 3 days. She reached out, told me she missed me, told me she wasn’t sure if this is what she wanted. She had surgery yesterday and will be messed up for a week. Don’t even know what To say to all that. I simply said “well you keep doing it?” She said “I’m in too deep now” I just told her “that’s an excuse, you had no problem making us sell our home and filing divorce on me, stop playing games with me, you have until Monday To make up your mind, you keep saying you want out over and over well now is your chance before you dig the hole deeper and the kids find out, I’ll help you get out but if you don’t make up your mind by then I’m walking away and never looking back” haven’t said a word to her since then. She calls me face time I put the kids on the phone and stay off it. I don’t speak and I don’t reply. I have nothing left to say.
I mean it 100%. I can’t do this anymore. I am ready to let go and get on with my life. This is BS. I’ve done everything I can to allow her to correct this mistake. If she doesn’t take it fine. I began cutting her out of my life and she knows that which is why she is trying to keep me on a leash. I refused going to her sisters for dinner. I don’t want to be part of her family anymore. Now or never no more excuses. I get to hold my head up high if she says no. And I don’t have t have the shame and regret she will have. That’s good enough for me. I never cut her off or gave an ultimatum. I was always too weak to do that. This time I don’t care anymore. I’m just tired of this. At this point I could care less what happens, I just want it to be over.
How did she reach out?
How did she word the missing you and not sure what she wanted?
Is the question "Well you keep doing it?" listening or validating?
In short, did you stick to the rules of engagement.
Ex. Her: "I miss you."
You: NO RESPONSE
Her: "I am not not sure this is what I want."
You: NO RESPONSE
Remember, you are LRT. Do not answer phonecalls. If it is important then she will leave a message or follow up with a text. If she texts a statement, you do not respond! If she asks a question, take your own sweet time in responding, but then you respond in the shortest message possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers.
If she engages with you around kid pickup or drop-off....LISTEN and VALIDATE!
You only ever initiate contact when it is logistics around picking up your kids, or dropping them off. That's it.
Again, you engage with her way too much at this point. You get in back-and-forths. Every time you do that, regardless of what you say (and trust me she doesn't believe she only has until Monday any more than I believe there is a man in the moon!) it tells her you are still on the hook.
ACTION OVER WORDS.
Do not listen to or validate this women. She is not worth it and you need to move.
I won’t. I can’t. That’s why I needed this. I needed the closure. I have to feel I did all in my power before I give up. This changes my life and my kids life. I had to know I did my best. I gave it 3 months of validating, listening, blaming myself etc. this ultimatum probably isn’t smart, probably will get me hurt. But I’m okay with it. Because it will be the closure I need to move on. I would have stayed in limbo for months or even years. I can’t do that. I have to wipe the table off. The choice must be made clearly and finally. That is what I needed. I told her if she doesn’t respond by Monday at 10pm I’m walking away. I meant it. I mean it. That way I can look back and have no shame, no regret. It sounds stupid but I needed to do that. Before I can let go. It won’t go the way I want I know that, I’m ready for that. Just needed to have this after 10 years before I can do the rest. She meant a lot and it needed to take a lot to let go. I see that, and I think once this time passes I can live with myself without blaming myself. I offered the chance of a lifetime to someone who doesn’t deserve it. Wrong or right it makes me feel like I did my best, and that will help me let her go.
I’ll let you guys know what happens. But I think we already know what will. Anyways see you on Monday.
I’m sorry to see you’re still doing this. She’s already made her choice. You are literally telling someone who’s left and picked someone else to make a decision about who they’re gonna pick. It’s already happened.
So if she calls at 7am Tuesday and changes her mind you’d really say to late?
I stopped saying anything to her. It’s been 3 days. She reached out, told me she missed me, told me she wasn’t sure if this is what she wanted.
Steve, I am sorry you are dealing with this, it truly [censored]. You seem to have the worst of it, you don't deserve it, but it is what it is.
I'm no DB expert but I do know that you are supposed to keep doing what works. And it seemed like no contact was working for you, and seemingly her to some extent (whilst acknowledging the above quote is garbage by her anyway). But who knows, maybe another 6 months of your best effort at no contact may have genuinely brought about remorse and change in this woman. But instead you took the easy option of giving an ultimatum that no one thinks you will keep if it came down to it.
My advice, which as I said probably isn't worth much given where I am, but I would take back the offer, say it was a mistake and then go back to being dark. This offer will just eat you up for the next 3 days, jeopardising whatever progress you have made so far. Waiting 3 days for this person to decide the fate of your marriage is not self-respect.
You do realize pressuring her into making a decision will likely lead to something she doesn’t want to do which will completely backfire, right? You must know this.
You do realize pressuring her into making a decision will likely lead to something she doesn’t want to do which will completely backfire, right? You must know this.
Yep, this is why ultimatums never work. They fall wholly into the category of pressure and pursuit. And pressure and pursuit 99.99999% of the time do not work. It is as close to a guarantee of pushing your spouse to D faster than they themselves ever intended!
Now, Steve_ your situation is a lot different in that most of us do not believe you should be trying to save your marriage with this terrible, lying, cheating woman. Based on the history here, even if you were to lure, manipulate, DB her back, she would pull this again on you and you'd find yourself right back in the same situation again. This is why the advice here is to run for the hills, do the work on yourself to healthily and happily move forward to a great life.
Steve_, if you read my threads, while there aren't a ton of parallels between my sitch and yours, but one thing I think you could benefit from is my mindset. As I embraced my WAW's desire to get her own place and move out, I started to get excited about my future prospects! Our marriage has been miserable leading up to BD. And while I did want to save my marriage, I was excited at what the future might bring unshackled to a marriage that wasn't working for anyone! I know a lot of LBSs, especially LBHs for some reason, struggle with what this means for their kids, but a bad marriage is bad for both spouses and it is bad for the children too. That is what a lot of LBSs don't see. As my favorite bald Texan TV psychologist likes to say "kids would rather be FROM a broken home than IN a broken home."
These last few responses from people are trying to get you to see that sitting and waiting for her to make a choice, even until Monday, is not in your best interest. Move into your new place, start your new life, and move forward!
Hi Steve_,
She has to make the choice now
1. Your wife has free will. You can't force her to "make the choice, now".
That is what it will take for us to move on.
2. "Us" doesn't exist. Remember, she has a new partner.
And painful but I’m ready. I needed the closure.
3. Why would she oblige and help you feel closure?
4. In past interactions she's manipulated you to wait longer, hold out hope, or blame yourself.
I had to know I did my best. I gave it 3 months of validating, listening, blaming myself etc.
5. Have you given this your best? What's the longest you went dark--3-5 days?
6. It's okay to walk away from her. She seems toxic.
I told her if she doesn’t respond by Monday at 10pm I’m walking away. I meant it.
7. Your words have said you were done before, so we're skeptical, and I bet she is, too.
Your point #7 is precisely why I needed to do this.
She cannot continue thinking she can pick me up at the drop of a hat. All I have done is give her that impression. When I go dark she digs up reasons to use my kids against me to do this and that because she wants to continue to manipulate me. You don’t understand it but she has done /said multiple things to leave the door open for herself and has lined up the replacement man. All I am trying to do is shut that door so that I can actually start DBing. She will chose him I know it. But at least after that she has to fess up to it and I can begin to DB instead of sit in perpetual limbo. I had to realize I’m not strong enough to hold myself accountable to detach without her making a choice and not playing me. Monday is the day this crap ends and I can GAL and DB. Letting this happen without standing my ground has been fruitless for my own moving on. This isn’t about her, it’s about me. I’m sure that makes no sense to you all and I’m sure you will tell me that ultimatums don’t work. Yeah it won’t work for her. But it will for me. I have to stand up to her at some point and draw my line and stop playing the “I’m not so sure game” that’s all I’m doing here.
My wife’s biggest fear is not being in control. That’s why she is uncomfortable with OM and keeping me here. I have to take that control away. Then she has nothing but her mess that she chose when I gave her a chance. Then she can never say it’s on me. That is all I want. To be free from the games.
This ultimatum is not about getting her back, it’s about getting me back and out of limbo. Nothing more nothing less.
Steve,
I am really sorry this is so difficult to you. I hope you are still seeking help with the VA. What you are dealing with I feel will not get better without professional treatment from a trained psychiatrist. To give this women so much power over you is a horrible state to be in right now. You have fought in a war and jumped out of airplanes yet life without this woman is what really terrifies you. I am sorry but I don't think this is ever going to end. For some reason she gets her rocks off playing with your emotions. You are going to sit in perpetual limbo until you decide to put an end to it. I hope that some day you are able to find peace.
She will chose him I know it. But at least after that she has to fess up to it and I can begin to DB instead of sit in perpetual limbo. I had to realize I’m not strong enough to hold myself accountable to detach without her making a choice and not playing me. I’m sure you will tell me that ultimatums don’t work.
It's unlikely to work because this is all fantasy--that because you ask this manipulative woman to say on Monday, "I choose my new BF" she will comply, and that it will be enough for you (when seeing her move in with him and introduce him to the kids was not), and that she will stop manipulating and playing you.
This ultimatum is not about getting her back, it’s about getting me back and out of limbo. Nothing more nothing less.
When you are ready to get yourself back then you won't give her until Monday.
You can chose to get yourself back right now without issuing an ultimatum
You don’t understand it but she has done /said multiple things to leave the door open for herself and has lined up the replacement man. All I am trying to do is shut that door so that I can actually start DBing.
I understand completely, b/c that what WW's do.........leave the door open for themselves. That's why they throw just enough crumbs at the LBH to mess with his head.
It sounds to me as if you are wanting her to make a decision for you. An ultimatum was not needed in order for you to let go and move on. I'm not sure what you mean by trying to shut the door so that you
start DBing. You said, " if you don’t make up your mind by then
I’m walking away and never looking back” [/i] Will you? It sounds pretty final. How does a man walk away and never look back, when he can't detach? I get the impression you believe it would force you into detaching.
She will chose him I know it. But at least after that she has to fess up to it and I can begin to DB instead of sit in perpetual limbo.
No she doesn't. Let me tell you the results I've seen on the board in times past, when the LBH would give his WW an ultimatum to choose by certain date & time. If she even contacts the LBH, she waits until the eleventh hour, and then gives the same old song & dance of not being sure, doesn't know what to do, yada, yada.
I think you've set yourself up for more games. YOU need to be the one who has enough self respect to call the shots about this relationship. The very fact you are still giving her an opportunity to make a choice.......is just pathetic. Do you seriously think she is worried that you would walk away and never look back at her?
The only thing that draws a WW's attraction to her H, is to see him no longer put up with her b.s. and manipulation. To see him let go of her and enjoy life without her being any part of it. It's when she realizes she's really lost him.
Even if she says she chooses you, how could you trust her? I think I read where you had been through this about five times? She's a serial cheater. How many more times are you willing to suffer this experience? You are already suffering from the thought of her choosing the OM over you. Do you see it as a big win, if you can just get her back home?
Ultimatums are not boundaries, and I've not personally seen ultimatums succeed in getting the LBH what he truly wants from his WW. For one thing, the LBH would have to be strong enough to stick to what he said, should she not choose him. I'm concerned how you think it frees you to DB, should she not choose you over OM. Why couldn't you make your own decision and shut the door, based on your personal values, boundaries, etc.?
I had to realize I’m not strong enough to hold myself accountable to detach without her making a choice and not playing me.
Okay, but hear me out.
She is going to play you! This ultimatum is nothing but a game to her. You've given her all the power to decide for you. She will toy with your feelings and your life, without commitment or the necessary work a WW has to accomplish in order to
CHANGE. I have to stand up to her at some point and draw my line and stop playing the “I’m not so sure game” that’s all I’m doing here.
And how do you do that ^^^^^^^^? You haven't drawn a line in the sand! You gave her power to decide for the both of you!
Then she can never say it’s on me.
Sure she can! This means nothing to her! A WW doesn't need permission to blame her H. She will lie and say it's on you, anytime she wants. If she has no integrity, honor or loyalty.......she's not going to hesitate to put everything on you, whenever it suits her. She's going to justify herself, and your sentiments above will have no baring on her. You are giving her too much credit for even caring.
That is all I want. To be free from the games.
Good luck! ((hugs))
Steve,
If you go ahead with the ultimatum, you must be prepared to act on it immediately and stay the course if she chooses the OM. If you cannot follow through on the ultimatum, you should not do it. And there will be tremendous pushback to make you yield and go back to being Plan B.
Good luck,
Spiral
That is exactly what I want spiral. Thanks. I know it will be hard but it is necessary. I know I have to stick to my guns when she goes for OM. I’m ready for that. It’s why I’m doing it. I wanted to hold on but now I need to let go. I will update as things unfold. This is not going the way I want I know that. I’m ready for it. I’m just trying to turn the page here. I have very very little hope because I’ve seen how she is. Doing this for me. Not her.
I’m going to be awfully blunt.
This was the worst idea ever. It is going to go nothing like you think it will and will keep you spinning in the same toxic dance the two of you do, no mater what her choice is at 10pm
We try very hard to get posters to float these kind of ideas to the board first. The ones that do tend to make better decisions. Those that do not..... Well.....
May I ask a question? What is the real reason you are giving this “ultimatum”? Are you truly giving it for the reasons you’ve listed? Because I don’t see how after everything you have endured in the past how anyone including yourself could say you didn’t give it your best shot? You’ve done more to keep this family together than what anyone could expect and what is actually fair to you. Are you hoping if you can force her to make a decision quick that she won’t gain more feelings for the OM and will “pick you”? Are you hoping that if that if she sees you “mean business” this time she’ll be shocked into realizing she may lose and you come back? Also, and I could be wrong, but i do see this as a form of you attempting to control her. I do wish you luck. I just don’t see how this is going to turn out in the way you expect. I don’t think she’s going to do anything you want or need. I just hope you’re strong enough to handle it when she doesn’t make a decision. She may say fine I pick so and so. But I guarantee within a week or two she’ll be back to attempting to manipulate the situation. Still having an affair...and still stringing you along. Time will tell.
I do think you need to focus squarely on yourself and your children. And until you can do that and stop worrying about her and what she’s doing, thinking or feeling, you are really stunting your ability to move forward.
She probably won’t say anything at all come Monday.
She chose him. Told me I had chances for 11 years. I replied this “you quit on me years ago, I would have given you the world. All you ever had to do was try and not look for other men to fix you.”
She said “I’m finally ok and the kids will be well taken care of”
I relied “my fight is over, I loved you this entire time until today never speak to me again unless absolutely necessary. Let me enjoy the little time I get with my kids”
I sent her a GIF of captain America saluting. And that was that.
Hardest thing I ever did. But I know she isn’t coming back. I denied it, I fought it, I thought I could read some things or pull some stunts to fix this. Yep I can’t. At least now I know where her heart really lies. I suppose I known for a long time. Just kept refusing to see it. As much as it devastated me it freed me. She said I deserve someone who loves me. That’s when I knew she has let go and everything she said is BS. I won’t speak to her anymore believe that. After this she totally broke me. Showed me how stupid I was for fighting for her. You cannot save someone who doesn’t want to be saved. I’ll stick to the boards. I’ll update here and there but I am no longer trying to save my marriage. It’s been over for a long time I know it. I just have to train myself to accept it.
Hi Steve,
That reply is as generous as you could have hoped for--I hope it's what you need to let go. She is a serial cheater so this marriage probably hasn't been worth fighting for, for a very long time.
You don't control her. She can and probably will contact you to vent, control, and/or temperature check.
I’ll update here and there but I am no longer trying to save my marriage.
The steps are the same--NC, GAL, detach, and don't rush into dating or alcohol to fill the void.
Hang in there, Steve!
No booze, no women. Won’t do it.
I just told her, “I’m proud of the fact I loved you this much, hope my son loves a woman as much as I loved you one day. I am a soldier and i fought for you till Til the end and I get to keep that, I’m proud of that. Good luck and I wish you happiness.”
The kids will call you tomorrow.
I arranged them to call at 7 PM each day. So I don’t have to get random calls anymore no more reasons to talk . I don’t like that. The door has finally closed. As hard as it is to accept I know I have to. As the mandalorian would say “this is the way”
Steve,
I really hope you are able to find some peace someday.
Hey Steve,
Consider yourself lucky she chose OM. He will meet the same fate you did.
Your W is broken, this was never about you. She’ll circle back in your direction once she realizes that OM can’t fix her. I hope by then you will be long gone.
Hang in there, it gets much better with time.
I’m glad she gave you a response and especially glad she chose him.
I hope you truly can change and move on now!
Strength and honor!!
Yeah I probably did the wrong thing here. When she kept saying “I’m not sure about this” and stuff when we talked I thought she really meant it so I pushed into it and when it came down to choosing she stayed with him. I know I did it because I wanted the manipulation to stop, I wanted to not be plan B. I didn’t want her to have that. Should have just ignored her temp checks and kept things short. I was weak and believed them, thought if I pushed I could save it. She didn’t want to be saved. But it is what it is. I don’t think she will manipulate me anymore because there isn’t a reason to, and I don’t think she will ever come back. I don’t really think anything I could have done would change that. And hopefully I’ll get to a point where it doesn’t hurt this much anymore. It will take some time. But that’s ok I have plenty of time now. I’m just gonna practice being more silent than ever. Around everyone. I’ve always been a talker. A fixer. Those are the first things I want to change.
Do not underestimate her capacity to try to manipulate you. She will try, no question. She doesn't believe she can't snap he fingers and have you back any more than we do. When pushed they will almost always choose the D or the OM out y leaving.
Steve I hope you are serious about moving forward. But I'm still afraid that is she called tomorrow and expressed regrets you'd reopen the door.
Yeah I probably did the wrong thing here. When she kept saying “I’m not sure about this” and stuff when we talked I thought she really meant it so I pushed into it and when it came down to choosing she stayed with him.
If this is what you needed to begin DB'ing (NC, detach, GAL), then your path was perfect. The proof will be in whether you DB this next week. Remember that DB'ing is about saving you.
I don’t think she will manipulate me anymore because there isn’t a reason to
Steve, she has many reasons to--a) lining up a safe place between OM if the current OM doesn't pan out, b) venting at you when she's angry so she doesn't vent at OM or have to look inwards, c) getting better terms in childcare, belongings, finances, etc. She was generous and sweet in giving you what you needed yesterday--but remember her overall character is that of a serial cheater who frequently manipulates you.
Steve,
Stay strong, focus on you, and prepare for her to reach out. I guarantee that she will. Nine months after the ultimatum, my WW still reaches out on occasion and complains that I never respond to texts or calls. And no matter what you say or do, you will be Plan B for a long time. You need to work on you so that you are strong and able to resist the temptation when it comes.
And to answer your future questions, I vote for complete and utter radio silence in response to whatever she says or writes.
Spiral
Copy that. She sent a heart emoji today. I did not respond. Just sent her photos of the kids I took them up to them the mountains to a cabin she loves. Wanted to let her know I took em out of town without having to talk. So far so good. I made arrangements to drop and get the kids for the next week without having to see her. I’m gonna keep trying to do that. I prefer that as much as I can do it. So begins day 1 of actual DBing. Took me long enough. Guess I had to learn the hard way. As usual
As long as you do learn Steve, you are supported, know that.
There is good thread on here by a guy called Flight, have a read when you get a chance.
One photo is enough. Send as little as you can and even that will probably be too much.
-Sprial
Agree with Spiral!
Also, dont send photos randomly.
My take:
If she specifically asks for something, MAYBE send one.
If she asks cause shes lonely, dont send.
If a child accomplished something that you caught on camera, send one.
If the child asks you to send a photo of something to mommy, ALWAYS send.
Im with Mumin on that! My H has painted this picture to me that he will get the kids to facetime every night, that he will tell me about everything that happened, how they slept etc. At that stage i thought ye right. I actually dont want it and the reality was, i didnt txt him to ask how the kids were, i didnt ask to face time them. He has them for 2 nights and they tell me all about it when they are home. Likewise i only every txt H when he txt back asking something specific about the kids. I dont send any pictures unless asked to. What i do with the kids (they live with me) is none of his business.
She tells you she chooses OM, then sends a heart emoji!
And you thought she was going to stop manipulating you?!?
She’s sick in the head and really gets off on playing with your emotional state.
Your best bet is to work on the core issues. Why you allow her to manipulate you, why you want her back, and what you can do to protect yourself from her sick games .
What Ginger said!
She’s a manipulative witch.
Don’t walk away from her Steve. RUN!!!
Just sent her photos of the kids I took them up to them the mountains to a cabin she loves. Wanted to let her know I took em out of town without having to talk. So far so good.
why do you need to let her know anything ? Seriously ? She chose OM and is a manipulator - pure and simple..
So you wanted to show her you took the kids out of town..
You do things with your children for them and you - they become your focus - not to wave a "look at me" flag to a WW...
Focus on you and the children for the sake of you and the children - not to start showing WW what a great dad you are, or what she is missing - because she will not care !
Well, mr B- if you see he mentioned they went up to her favorite cabin......
He wanted her to see that’s where they were to get a reaction.
Stop the game playing and the manipulation on both ends. It’s going to keep you guys in this very toxic pattern you have
SMH. "Sent her pictures of the kids in the mountains."
WHY?
Steve you just cannot DB fully can you?
Hey Steve_,
Just sent her photos of the kids I took them up to them the mountains to a cabin she loves. Wanted to let her know I took em out of town without having to talk. So far so good.
Steve, you said pushing her to say "I chose OM" is what you needed to let go and DB (NC, GAL, Detach). She was generous enough to oblige. It's only a day later and you've already texted her. Texting her photos of your vacation at a place she loves seems far off the path to DB, detachment, or moving on with your life. When might I text photos unprompted? Major milestones--first steps, first words, promotion, or graduation. My ex-wife and I get along well enough that she asked me last week to rekindle our relationship.
Mumin's guidelines are pretty good--
If she specifically asks for something, MAYBE send one.
If she asks cause shes lonely, dont send.
If a child accomplished something that you caught on camera, send one.
If the child asks you to send a photo of something to mommy, ALWAYS send.
I know Steve85 doesn't like SocialMedia, but if you felt a desire for *someone*, *anyone* to know you went on vacation it could be a good place. Just be sure you unfriend your ex and unfollow anyone in common so you don't "inadvertently" happen upon pics of her embracing her bf on a happy vacation. I enjoy that SocialMedia is a quick and easy way to create a photo album of all my adventures to look back at. To me, it's the modern form of that amazing paper photo album or journal I just never have time to put together! Plus, it instantly shares with family, the few people who can handle endless streams of "My baby ate his first cupcake!" or "Look, he's wearing his first tank top!" or "Look, he counted to 4!"
Hi Steve_, hang in there. Have you managed to stay silent since the photo? The first few days of No Contact can be especially challenging. After a couple of weeks, it gets easier.
She did end up messaging me saying “I lost weight, your not the only one getting beautiful”
A shouldn’t have but a conversation fired up. At some point I asked her “why did you tell me all that stuff?”
She said “because you were messing with my head and emotions”
She then said “why can’t you just say F you and hate me? I betrayed you and you still want me dude? Wtf, just hate me!”
I said “I can’t do that, why don’t you just tell me you don’t love me and your not coming back, why don’t you hate me?”
She said “I can’t do that”
So I said “well what do we do?”
She said “I can’t just leave him, I do care about him, he has never even come close to hurting me, he takes care of me, never tells me no, and his kids would rather be with me than their own mom, I can’t just F his life up and his kids life up now”
I said “but you could do that to me and our kids? Your over there fixing his life and his family, not your life and your family, you got trapped”
“She made some some comments and I did as well, I told her that “it’s not to late to walk away now it’ll just get worse and I was still willing to forgive her and let it go.”
She said “I’m sorry I can’t do this please don’t message me about anything besides the kids”
I said “ok I’m sorry, please do the same for me as well”
“She responded ok”
And that was that. Not a word since yesterday. I kept kinda needing closure, and she wasn’t giving it to me. She would never say she is done and not coming back or admit she loves him or anything she still won’t. But at least I got an answer why she can’t leave and she asked me to not talk to her besides the kids which is good because she knows she can’t do that now either if she wants to hold her own word. What a mess, this will take me years to heal from I can see that now. Just like LH said. I kept getting sucked right back in. Until I pushed so hard, apologized so much, begged her that she just couldn’t take it. I never did that the whole damn time we been seperate this 3 months. I guess I had to feel the need to try to save it or something. To make her feel loved and that I don’t hate her even though I could and probably should. It hurts pretty bad it came to this but I do feel good she doesn’t get that excuse to continue with him that I’m some mean ahole. I went down bad, swinging and fighting. But I see there is zero reason to continue. She won’t leave because he is so good to her and never hurt her and blah blah blah. Good luck with that lasting forever. She’s in fantasy land and I can’t compete with that. I won’t post anymore about her saying this or that or whatever. I’ll post every couple of days to let you know how NC is going. I’m glad she asked for it, made it easier. And no I won’t date, I don’t post anything on social media, I’m going dark. Besides scheduling kids. I’ll let you know how that goes.
To help I made a list last night of all the pain she has caused me whenever I feel sad or lonely or want to talk to her I look at that list. It helps a lot.
"I kept kinda needing closure"
You've said this and variations of it multiple times now.
Look Steve_ you are either LRT or you're not. LRT is not something you say you are doing, it is something you do.
Remember, do not answer her phone calls. If it is an emergency she will leave a message or follow up with a text. If the text is informational only (like “I lost weight, your not the only one getting beautiful”), DO NOT RESPOND. If it is a direct question, then respond in as few words as possible but NOT right away. Remember, you are busy GAL. WHen you do eventually respond then answer in as few words as necessary. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers.
Last point, and this is not a question I am looking for an answer to, just a few questions for you to pose to yourself and ruminate on: In the exchange above, what grade would you give yourself from a DBing standpoint? Did this exchange help your sitch or hurt it? Are you further ahead having this exchange, or further behind?
Again, no need to answer here because I don't think you would answer honestly. But maybe quietly, introspectively to yourself you will be.
I do want to answer that. It’s an F.
I pushed her and she can’t even talk to me anymore. Defiantly further behind. She put up a boundary because I wouldn’t. She was stronger than me. I failed. I recognized it the second she said that. She has said it before like a month ago and here we are again. I can’t do it again. If I haven’t just destroyed everything with this if it happens again it will. I know that. The only thing I can do is give her space, let her have the divorce she wanted and just keep my mouth shut. I wanted answers, I got the answers I wanted. No need to do anymore. Thanks for your advice Steve I will follow it to a T this time. What I do doesn’t work. She won’t ever give me closure, she won’t ever admit she was wrong and forgiving her/ guilting her just makes her mad. This was incredibly stupid of me. I will not do that again. I really disappointed myself. So yeah I’ll just stick to posting when I hit landmarks in Actual LRT/NC from now on.
Steve,
I’m not going to comment on your DBing because we all know this problem you have stems way beyond DBing. I can’t give you advice to try to save your marriage because it is so broken it shouldn’t be saved. You need help from a professional not some random strangers on website. Your W is like heroin to you and you are majorly hook on it and need assistance in getting unhooked for it. You are mistaking love for your unhealthy attachment. Please follow through on getting help from the VA. Please if not for you then your children.
You have got to stop talking, pal. It's like picking a scab. It's never gonna heal if you keep picking at it. Stop talking. Let her go. Focus on you. You're broken, dude. The only way this whole situation has a happy ending is if you heal yourself first. It has to start there. Once you work through this and get your head right, everything will make sense. Happiness is closer than you think...
Yeah I know I can’t talk to her anymore. It’s hurting both of us actually, more so me. Each time I distance myself, find something else to think about she pops in and I meltdown all over again. Worse and worse.
I think about her constantly, im scared to death to see her, I haven’t in a couple weeks now and I’m avoiding it. I constantly have thoughts of her with him. How horrible it is that he took my beautiful wife and how my entire life, home and relationship with my children got destroyed. I feel like the pain will never end and the more she moves on and gets happier the more it hurts me. It makes me feel as if I meant nothing, and honestly I probably didn’t since she left me for a person I thought was my friend, she already is being mom to his kids when she hated doing it for ours. And she says how he is so good to her, hasn’t hurt her and how he takes care of everything she wants. It all sounds like her life is so perfect and mine is destroyed. I know it won’t be this way forever but right now it seems that way. I feel hopeless and depressed. Everything in life is pointless and meaningless now. To be totally honest I still hope she will see something and come back, that he will mess up somehow or she will. But that isn’t going to happen anytime soon. And even if it does the more I stay available the higher chance she leaves him for someone else too. I’m scared my wife will marry him and live happily ever after with him. Everything I do comes from fear, loss, pain. The divorce papers just got sent into the court a few weeks ago and she’s already got a whole new life it feels like a cut that just keeps bleeding. That is where I am out right now. And that is why I know and I really do know I cannot talk to her more that is absolutely necessary for the kids. Because I will never ever feel better if I don’t.
To be totally honest I still hope she will see something and come back
After all of this? After everything you've been through? Just to do it all over again? I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you're a godd@mn fool, Steve. You are addicted to her and she is TOXIC. What advice would you give your son in the future when his wife cheats on him 6 times? When she constantly disrespects him? Starts taking care of someone else's kids instead of your grandkids? Are you gonna tell him to just keep taking her back? Or are you gonna tell him to have some self respect and cut his losses? Your kids are watching, Steve. Do you want your D to think its normal to treat her spouse the way your W treats you? Do you want your S to think its normal to be treated the way your W treats you?
Your ultimatum had nothing to do with closure. You were just hoping it would scare her back...
That is true I admit it. I lied to myself saying I’m ready to let go. I’m not even close. Today is the first day I have actually stuck to not communicating with her in any way shape or form for weeks. It will take me a very long time to detach. But I have to begin right now if I ever want to feel better. I just watched a video about letting go and it said something really nice. “Sometimes people are in our lives for less time than we wanted, but the lessons they taught us stay forever”
I know I’ll get there. It will just be a long road because of how I am and how attached I am to her and my delusional vision of what she could be. But I am going to move forward the correct way because I need to stop hurting myself I don’t want to feel this way anymore I have to let go. It isn’t a choice anymore. I can’t let my kids see me this way.
How horrible it is that he took my beautiful wife
I'm sorry, Steve. She was never yours.
And she says how he is so good to her, hasn’t hurt her and how he takes care of everything she wants.
She doesn't sounds selfish at all... what a great gal!
Dude, you are being given a gift right now. The gift of not being cheated on for the 6thand 7th time! Get into therapy and cut your losses! You have a great life ahead of you if you work on yourself.
Your “beautiful”wife is actually very very ugly inside
Today is the first day I have actually stuck to not communicating with her in any way shape or form for weeks.
That is great, Steve! Baby steps... you did it. Now how can you stick with it?
You're in the hardest place right now. It svcks. But every day you stay NC is a day you are a little healthier, a step closer towards being free from her dysfunctional web.
Can you make a list of ten things you'll do if you get a text or call from her to prevent yourself from responding? Call a friend, watch a show, play the crossword, snuggle your kids if you have them? Can you mute her texts and calls when she doesn't have the children, so she doesn't knock you off balance by texting when you're doing OK?
She'll keep texting you, you know. It will escalate as soon as you stop responding. You'll get more heart emojis and "I'm not sures" and all the rest. You have to figure out how you can stay strong in the face of this. Are there friends IRL that can help you right now? Can you get an appointment with an IC?
You can do this. You're right, you don't want your children to see you like this. Be strong for them if you can't do it for yourself alone. One day at a time.
A shouldn’t have but a conversation fired up. At some point I asked her “why did you tell me all that stuff?”
Fired up? You mean when you practically begged for a R talk? You made yourself look pitiful, which is not an attractive quality to your WW. Stop chasing a woman who cheats, betrays and disrespects you.
Please listen to me. Relationship talks do
not work with WW's who are having an affair with another man. Apparently, you still think of her being the wife you use to know. This is not the girl you married, Steve. This did nothing but enable more disrespect from her. The stuff she says to you....... I've read hundreds of times, from other WW's! It's as if they all read from the same play book. And, trust me, she's much better at manipulating you, than you are her. The more you try to have a heart to heart with her ......the more fire power you are giving her, and she will definitely use it. You can't change how
she thinks, but you can certainly change how YOU think. That's where it has to start........with a different mental attitude. Don't confuse it with emotions/feelings. Currently, your emotions are in control of a lot of your decisions, so that's what needs to change.
She then said “why can’t you just say F you and hate me? I betrayed you and you still want me dude? Wtf, just hate me!”
Yep! I have read that one, too! Probably sounds rather hopeful to a leg-clinger, but it's only dramatics....that's all.
The only thing I can do is give her space, let her have the divorce she wanted and just keep my mouth shut.
Really? Do you really believe this, or just repeating what you've heard others say?
Most of the stories I've read about WW's, and in my own personal sitch.......want to be
friends with the LBH. However, the LBH cannot be friends with her b/c his definition of friendship is not the same as her definition. The WW will use and abuse you every chance she has. You don't even realize what she's doing.
Her mission is to keep you emotionally attached. Now, don't get confused about what that means. It doesn't mean she is having second thoughts about going back to you. It doesn't mean any of the things you wish it would mean. There's a lot of very unattractive attributes in a WW, and this is only one example. Her cheerfulness, chattiness, friendliness, joking around..........mean nothing!!!! She baits you all the time, and you are either too blind to see it for what it is........or just plain too weak to resist the pull. If it's the latter, then you will have no peace in your life until you make up your mind to cut the emotional rope you are clinging to for dear life!
She put up a boundary because I wouldn’t.
Don't worry, she didn't mean it.
Do you even know what we mean by boundaries? What do you plan to do the next time she contacts you by sending you a meme, a photo of the kids, or is just in a chatty mood? Don't think for a second there won't be a next time. She's going to continue playing this game until she learns she can't play with your head and keep you emotionally attached.
You know all that cr@p she was saying about the OM and his kids.......(apparently forgetting what she'd done to her H and kids)? I knew immediately what was happening with her, b/c I had the same crazy mindset. She
will think of what's best for OM and his kids before she begins to feel concern for you and her own children. For a while, she may even be a better mom to his kids, b/c she trying to "win" them. Her emotional focus is on OM, and you won't change it by anything you say.
Steve, you need a plan to help you get through this period in your life. I don't think you've dropped the rope enough to put a plan together, b/c you're too focused on WW. When you can get to the place where you don't link every word, thought, and action with her, it will be progress in moving forward with living. Until then, how will you fill the days and nights to come? How will you effectively handle the surprises she has up her sleeve? I say surprises, b/c I'm always reading posts from LBH's who say their WW caught them off guard.
Steve, IMHO you immediately need to go and see a counsellor - for you.
There are lots of red flags here, including that you are unhealthily attached to someone who is blatantly toxic and manipulative.
Every day you try and manage this yourself is a waste of time.
The only way for you to move forward is with professional help.
Steve,
You need to make an appointment w/a therapist to help you navigate the next few months because of the holidays. Try to remember, that the more you chase after her, the more she's going to run from you. She knows that you still love her, but right now, she's out there exploring and who knows if this guy will be a permanent fixture in her life or she'll move on to someone else...whatever she's doing...you have absolutely no control over her or what she does.
I want you to make a list of things that you've not done in a long time and start working on that list. You've got to find a way to keep yourself busy. Put a rubber band on your wrist and each time you think of her, snap that bad boy. This is the time for you to work on yourself and figure out what you want to do w/your life, if your wife doesn't return. Holidays are difficult...spend them w/a friend and/or family...but do not be alone at this time.
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Steve's LRT phase 3