https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2905008&page=11there is the link to 11 pages of what not to do.
This is the first one where Im gonna start doing things right. Maybe I look like crap since im more honest /open than other posters or I just made a lot more mistakes but my NGS is real and after the last couple posts on the other thread I realized I am dissapointed in myself.
She would rather hurt me, the kids and our whole family than some dude she never should have been with. I need to stop thinking this will go well. It wont. Even if she comes back it will just happen again probably. There is no fixing this anytime soon, she has made no changes to herself at all. Im still holding onto something that isnt real, in love with what she could be not what she is. I must begin the process of letting go, should have started it two months ago. I know many of you are shaking your head at me all the time. Im gonna do my best and ill keep you updated. You guys are the only thing keeping me from doing a lot worse so thanks for hanging in there.
I've had a really hard time with this. For anyone new here is the timeline and events that occured.
June we get a new home out of state, so does her parents we all plan to move together.
July we get all new stuff and I move it to the new home.
9/3 She says I want a divorce.
9/24 She files it "I just want to be happy"
10/15 I move everything out of other house and she moves it into an apartment with a "room mate"
10/27 I find out about her OM and she admits her "room mate" is a friend of the family, his and our kids and wives were friends. ive hung out with him multiple times we even went camping as families for a week.
Ill be moving out 11/6. of her parents house where we lived together.
I hope that will help some of you hardcore folks have a slight bit of understanding why I was not able to just detatch. That entire time until 2 days ago she was giving me breadcrumbs and false hopes saying things like "we can always get re-married" and so on. Thats why its been so damn hard to see this for what it is until like 3 days ago. I should have believed the pro DBers about there being a OM 99% of the time. never expected this though. All I can do is try to be honest with myself from now on and do better.
Steve,
Why wasn’t it expected? Hasn’t she left you for other men in the past? Cheaters cheat that’s what they do.
She never actually left me, never filed D, always made me to one to leave or stay and deal. Eventually guilt got her staying and then cheating and so on. And they were always long-distance A's.
This time she filed D and left me for OM probably because she knew no R with a friend of the family would work if she didnt D me and "do the right thing" Thats what was unexpected. Buying the new home with her parents and making that huge commitment was the biggest unexpected thing to do just 2 months later costing us and her parents $30,000 for nothing.
Steve,
The two of you are so broken and toxic together that there is absolutely zero chance of this working out long term without intense therapy. I know that’s not what you want to hear but trust me she is doing you a favor. Eventually the pain will subside.
I have been trying to nice her back, he is trying to nice her to stay. I bet what will happen is she leaves both of us for some younger guy without kids some alpha male type and never looks back.
I have to change my ways like this moment or there is zero chance of her wanting to recon and do the things she will need to do to get help. If I continue to nice her back she wont ever come back. That's the truth.
Now I have to stop talking about it and be about it. Ill post again when the sitch warrants it.
Steve, you commented on my post yesterday saying all the things that I need to be doing, and you're right. Guess why you were able to give me the correct advice...? Because you were looking at it from an objective point of view...free of emotion, you don't know me or my W. Can you try and look at your sitch in the same objective way?
In the same way I can look at your last post and say, forget about OM, let him have her, forget about her leaving OM for another. Forget about changing otherwise there will be zero chance of recon and what she might do to help get there.
Just work out the things you need to change in yourself for you to have a happy and fulfilling life moving forward.
You are absolutely right. Like I’ve always said I’m the cardiologist that smokes. I’m not trying to toot my own horn here but I’m a military vet, 2 Purple Hearts, I’m still handsome, (way more than OM, even she admitted it lol) and I’m the kind of guy most women would kill for. I’m loyal, dependable and kind. I’m a nurse that loves his job of helping people in times of emergency crisis at rock bottom, I’m a psych nurse and I deal with people that have given up, tried to die or kill someone else. Strung out on drugs etc.. I never study for anything I went to law school because I passed the LSAT without even reading anything, same with nursing school, I’m brilliant and the only thing that holds me back is my own self esteem issues. I think it stems from dad leaving when I was 5 and my mom being emotionally unavailable, I tend to chose women that are the same. I had one girl once that was amazing and so sweet but I ran back to my wife because of attachment issues back in 2012 when i was helping her finish her bachelors and she started seeing someone else.
Today was a day I think will be something that helps me truly detach, I laid in bed with my kids tonight and my son said “Mr xxxx is my moms new boss, he gives us money when we work with her, he is her new Roomate dad he is the mega boss” I just sank. I asked them please don’t tell me about that anymore okay. Then my W called I ignored the first one. The second one came in and I answered she said how you doing, I said good. She said some stuff about moving out and how i would have nothing and Offered to help I said “don’t worry about it” I did 3 years in Iraq sleeping In holes in the ground as an airborne infantryman with nothing but the pack on my back and the next raid to move to. I let this crap depress me but I have literally seen hell and lived it. I don’t even care anymore I said “my kids told me you been taking him around him and the are getting money from him you told me you weren’t doing that” she said “they don’t know it’s just a room mate and working, they go to places with me so they get money for working, they don’t know anything” I just told her “well I’m sorry but I’m just so embarrassed, that hurt to hear from our kids” she tried to explain away I just ignored it as the BS it is. She said I’m going to my sisters I swear, I said “thanks for telling me, i appreciate it good nite”.
I used to feel like she is a good person doing a bad thing and she deserves me to love her give her time, learn from my mistakes and be the rock that stands for her. The tone of voice she had was of sympathy so I know it’s a wrap. She has lost all respect and love. I can hear it now. I think today is the day I stop hating myself and just give up. Let her have her OM, it will fail I know it will for so many reasons it will fail. He is trying to be nice and I know what happens to nice guys. She will shred him like she did me.
I told myself this tonight, dude .. If you cannot see the value in yourself and stand up for yourself you show you have no value, no self respect and if you do it long enough she has no choice but to agree with you.
This broke the last piece of my heart. Good riddance she is no longer my W. She’s some scumbags GF. My kids were the last straw for me. She involved them. That made me see her as she is, F’d up. My fog is thinning.
Steve,
It doesn't matter how many Purple Hearts you have or how good looking you are, until you fix yourself you will continue to attract women who treat you badly.
Just read through 2-3 days of posts.
And they were always long-distance A's.
Really?
Why would you even consider taking her back, let alone let you whole world circle around what she is doing.
She should NOT be aloud "back" in your life. AT ALL!
"Back" doesnt exist and you should not allow this thought in your head EVER again! EVER!!!
IF not for you, do it for your kids. Be the GOOD parent that they so desperately will need. Fight for you right to as much time as possible with them so you can show them a good life.
If you ever R in the future it should be, as Steve85 said, after serious amounts of therapy and REAL change on both yours and her side.
At this point you are venturing into Curtis-territory.
Steve,
It doesn't matter how many Purple Hearts you have or how good looking you are, until you fix yourself you will continue to attract women who treat you badly.
[quote=LH19]
How does one fix oneself LH19? IC, reading, getting out there and practising bring the new person you want to be?
[quote=LH19]Steve,
It doesn't matter how many Purple Hearts you have or how good looking you are, until you fix yourself you will continue to attract women who treat you badly.
How does one fix oneself LH19? IC, reading, getting out there and practising bring the new person you want to be?
IMO IC is a must in the beginning. The gym is a must. A good diet. Learning a new skill. Reading. Every man should read “how to be a 3% man”. Learn to listen and validate. Set goals. Learn to be alone. Meditation. Yes decide the man you want to be then practice becoming that person. Repetition is the mother of skill. Learn to be patient. Always be positive. Surround yourself with people you deem better then you. Most important be a great dad. I’m pretty fit and considered handsome but I get the most compliments on being a great dad.
I will add to LH's list: if so inclined, reconnect with religion. Renew your wardrobe. If you are a man that has been in a dead-end job, get a new one or go back to school to work towards the career you want.
In short, stop floating through life and take control of your life!
OB (and Steve) - That’s exactly it. What would you do if you W had died? Sit in your house for the next five years wishing she would return. No... If you are a healthy person, you would grieve the loss and then you would start to build a new life and move forward. This is no different only the person didn’t die, they are just choosing someone or something else so your ego takes a giant hit and it is their rejection of you that keeps you stuck.
If you do the work, you will be shocked (in a good way) at how well you can do without this person you thought you needed. You don’t NEED them to be happy. You don’t. You just think you do. Trust me...I’ve been there. I joined this site two years ago...a mess. Not eating, not sleeping, barely putting one foot in front of the other. The people on here pushed and pulled me through this process which is why I am still here...to help support others and to let them know that if they aren’t able to save their marriage (I figured out mine wasn’t worth saving), they can save themselves. That and there IS life after divorce and it can be a GREAT one.
Let go of the fear. I was SO afraid. Afraid I couldn’t handle things on my own financially. I can. Afraid that I would feel sad forever and watching my H build a life with someone else (we share kids so I do have to coparent with him) would destroy me. Guess what? It doesn’t bother me a bit anymore. When I see him, we are friendly and I am not angry or sad. I am detached. He is someone I used to love but not someone who is worthy of my love now...if he ever was. My biggest fear was that no one else would ever love me. I went on a ton of dates and through that process, I realized there are a lot of other people out there who find me attractive and I realized that I could find someone else. And guess what? I’ve been in a relationship for the last three months with a great guy who has had a similar past to me...not just in how he was raised but also in how his marriage ended. As he likes to say...we were living in lock step. He is loyal, honest, expressive, a great dad and a positive, upbeat friendly person. He’s tall, dark and handsome and seven years younger than me...lol. It’s early days but he talks like we will be together forever so I know he is committed. I also know that if that changes, I will be 100% okay. I’ve been through hell and come out the other side a better, stronger me and I know I can not only survive but thrive.
Drop the rope. Face your fears. You can do this. (((HUGS)))
Steve, I'm about to come find you and sew your lips shut...
Hi Steve_,
We've been trying to warn you that someone who lies and cheats in one area will probably do so in another. She cheated on you, she moved in with OM, and she introduced OM to the kids.
There is no reason to believe any of her words. The things she "admitted" about the OM are likely lies, too. Sometimes we like to pick and choose what we believe, especially the "problems with OM" narrative.
d “Mr xxxx is my moms new boss, he gives us money when we work with her, he is her new Roomate dad he is the mega boss” I just sank. I asked them please don’t tell me about that anymore okay.
Steve, think this through. Your son is trying to express the changes going on around him and you're shutting him down. You probably want him to feel safe confiding in his father. There is a great thread on validation here, and it applies as much to one's children as it does to re-connecting with spouses.
Note, I'm not saying to try to push him to get info about the situation over there.
The second one came in and I answered she said how you doing, I said good. She said some stuff about moving out and how i would have nothing and Offered to help I said “don’t worry about it” I don’t even care anymore I said “my kids told me you been taking him around him..
Talky, again?! Besides hurting detachment and reconciliation, in this talky you told her your son was a whistleblower. That throws him under the bus (she may take action to reduce the chances that he blabs again). Incidentally, her life is easier--she doesn't need to maintain this lie and knows your source of info. I agree you can do better than this woman, so any impact on your son and detachment is most important. Props for your service, and props for helping your community as a nurse.
Yeah I know Ive been talking too much. I said a whole lot less last nite. The kids already knew OM, his wife and his kids we were all friends. They just told me he has been in the picture now giving them money, literally trying to buy my children's favor. Grooming them for the big F'in bomb drop oh hey im your moms boyfriend too. That hurt bad. real bad.
I have been tempted to tell her how much she hurt me, how much my life is like jerry springer now and I would watch other people with stories im living and be like damn......
I have said not a single word all day to her, last night when she said "see you later?" I just took my kids in my room and went to sleep. I cant even begin to believe this is happening. But it is, and the reality [censored]. Its been 3 days since OM has been there drop and I cant believe this man. I want to tell her so badly how could you do this to me? but all that will do is make her dig up the reasons, say them again, justify and push me away more. So I say nothing. Sometimes I go outside and cry for a minute or two. I write her long emails and then delete them. Until you have had your guts ripped out like this, there is no way to understand the personal embarrasment, the defeat. I have spun into a depression. Ive lost 40 pounds in 40 days. I dont eat, I dont sleep, this constantly consumes my mind and soul. I started to break down just applying for the electicity for this new aparment. I dont even have a bed, blankets, toilet paper nothing. And once I pay to move in, ill be struggling financially for a long time, alone, brokenhearted, missing the life I had because i took my wife for granted. A brand new home a beautiful woman and a happy family, gone because I got comfortable and let her slip away. Its so important to be in tune with your partner. I cant even begin to explain how dissapointed I am in myself for letting this happen, and how hard it is not to fight back and accept this with her. To let her go without a fight. I guess I need to see DB'ing as fighting, and just stick to doing it. Its day one and i havent said a word to her. I dont have anything to say anymore, it wont even matter and if i talk to her she will just lie to me anyways. I was deluded to believe she still loved me, you dont do this to someone you love. I miss her every second of every day and am eaten alive by regret, yet I feel so betrayed and hurt at the same time. I think i should focus on those feelings instead of the regret and missing her, maybe it will help me see her in the light she really is in. I am looking forward to the day that I dont care anymore about her, but I know that will be a long time from now.
So for now I remain silent, and just try to make my life not suck as much as I can. Moving out will help, but also hurt being so lonely. I suppose thats part of this process.
Slow, I still am staying here and she is too. On her days. I got home and she kinda blamed me for moving out. I just shrugged like “what can I do” She got mad like “oh I have to live at my moms with my kids and you will have your own place and your own life?” I was like “leave the kids with me then” she didn’t want to have to get up early and get them and so on. She blamed me for moving too fast. She said “I’ll have to take them there” and I said well you wanted to not show them things yet so idk stay with your mom.. she said “I’ll just sleep in the room with our daughter then” I shrugged and said I don’t want my kids to get hurt if I can help them I will. I’ll always be a good dad. She also got mad because the kids told her that daddy doesn’t want to seperate and he loves you. My son asked me awhile back why we are seperating I told him I don’t know. But I don’t want to and I love your mom a lot but this is what she needs so I have to do it. I have to live in my own place now and I don’t want to but that is how it is now. I hate lying to them I don’t tell them details but I don’t lie. I don’t want to be seperated and move away but I have to. My wife told me i looked really good today. She gave me flirty eyes a couple times as asked if I was okay. I tried to keep things short and just like not emotional at all. Moving out will make this whole thing hard but it’s what I need to do. She has become a totally different person, she is living a whole different life that doesn’t include me anymore. I have to just accept it and stop holding out any hope it will change. I kept our interaction as light as possible, even laughed a little and stuff around her. There was a couple of moments where reality slipped in but i handled it well i didn’t get mad or argue. Or anything. She sees I’m destroyed but I’m doing the best I can. And I’ll be there for the kids. That is what counts now. Once I move out things will be a lot harder and also sort of better. Seeing her is hard but it will fade in time. Moving out pushed her plan forward but i know I made the right choice for me. I have to let go of her and accept this and each day that passes hurts but one day I know I’ll get over it. I’m just not there yet. I planned on having a friend over next week when I move in I know the first day alone with just a couch and an empty place will hurt and I don’t want to do it alone.
Good lord Steve. How old are your kids? That’s what you told your son?!? You don’t want it, but it’s what she needs you you have to do it???” That isn’t even tru and shouldn’t be true.
You are a psych nurse right? You should know better. “It’s an adult decision mommy and daddy had to make but we both love you very much” that’s what you say. You need this separation just as much as her, my friend. She can’t stop cheating on you. Moving out isn’t because this is what mommy needs. So you lied just as well.
You should really see a psychologist to get some guidance on how to handle this with the kids. Because this isn’t working.
My ex left me when my daughter was 6 months old for his mistress. It’s 13 years later. I should some discord towards them in the beginning and as soon as I saw it was affecting her , I stopped real fast. She still doesn’t know what happened to this day, except I did let her know it was initially not my choice. And that much information didn’t come until way later when she could see I was doing well, he is doing well, and we all get along.
Be careful around the kids, please. And don’t give in to her manipulations either.
I hope you are in IC. It will help you process and deal with your emotions
Yeah 6 months old is a lot different from a 7 year old and a 5 year old. I didn’t tell my son anything that regarded why this happened. I only told them that I loved their mom, and i didn’t want to seperate but I have to. That’s it. I didn’t say a single other thing regarding the situation. I will not turn my children into weapons or my therapist. But I am not going to let them think that I just randomly split their lives up and wanted to do it. They speak to me we are close they interact they ask lots of questions there are not babies. I had to say something so I kept it minimal. The other 98% of the questions I say “I don’t know”
What I am saying is my daughter is 13 now. I have went through ever stage of questions with my daughter . That was waaaaaaay TMI for those ages. I had guidance from therapists through all her stages on how to answer the questions appropriately their lives were not randomly split up. You keep taking back a woman who has zero respect for you. Has 5 times cheated on you. This is not a random split up. But at 7 and 5 who wants it or doesn’t want it isn’t something they should know. Because they can’t understand and shouldn’t understand the details of how their parents got where they are. It’s simply “mommy and daddy have adult issues which we are handling. And we both love you very much”
The older they get, and the more detached from the situation you get, the more you can answer questions
But I can tell you are still in the stage of not really listening to what others have to say and you’ll just defend your choices in every area and ignore all advice.
I was there, we were all there. I do hope you heed the advice of not staying there too long.
Steve,
So to Ginger’s point your ex can go to you kids and say this is dad’s fault because he doesn’t have his $hit together. You don’t want them thinking it was anyone’s fault. You want them to know it wasn’t their fault and that you both love them very much.
Yeah we talked to them together. I don’t talk to them anymore just the one time. They are just being as protected as possible from this. I talked to my therapist MFT at work, he said that it’s okay to tell them it’s not what I want but to make sure that I support things best as I can from now on. It’s important for them to have stability and so on. With being said I told my wife today that I made a choice regarding the kids.
I won’t move out into the apartment right away. I don’t have any table furniture etc anyways. I’ll stay in the home with the in laws and so for until December 1st. After that I will leave and if she wants to take the kids to the apartment to live there with him it’s on her. I offered them to stay with me if she wants that too. This gives her some space and time to decide, keeps my kids out of it for another month and gives me a chance to get the things I need to be ready to move them In without any pressure going any direction. I felt it was the right thing to do.
When I told her that she replied with
"you are making this so hard for me"
"Im trying to hate you but your being amazing"
I am going to have to go ahead and assume that means just about jack squat, especially since she is still with him. Was nice to hear but its just more of the BS coming out of her in the whole mess. She has no intention of doing anything different, our whole life was thrown away for this dude, a little guilt doesnt mean anything. Not getting my hopes up.
Yeah we talked to them together. I don’t talk to them anymore just the one time. They are just being as protected as possible from this. I talked to my therapist MFT at work, he said that it’s okay to tell them it’s not what I want but to make sure that I support things best as I can from now on. It’s important for them to have stability and so on. With being said I told my wife today that I made a choice regarding the kids.
I won’t move out into the apartment right away. I don’t have any table furniture etc anyways. I’ll stay in the home with the in laws and so for until December 1st. After that I will leave and if she wants to take the kids to the apartment to live there with him it’s on her. I offered them to stay with me if she wants that too. This gives her some space and time to decide, keeps my kids out of it for another month and gives me a chance to get the things I need to be ready to move them In without any pressure going any direction. I felt it was the right thing to do.
Why is it the right thing to do?
Happy Halloween! Wishing you and the kids a happy evening.
Thanks Cwarrior!
I think it’s the right thing to do because I want to be in a healthier position when i move out not depressed around my kids. I need time to detach more before I am solo with them. I need time to prepare the place and find furniture and so on. And finally it gives my wife a chance to process this before she gets the kids into it and it changes their life too.
Tonight I wanted to talk to her so bad, tell her to stop this and how wrong it is i did not. I just went to sleep early to keep my mind from running. She messaged me at 1130 tonight. There was no reason for it. She asked “still awake?” Then called I did not answer.
Not sure why she does this. She’s literally laying in bed next to him right now at her place. Why the hell she reaching out to me? I need to continue to distance myself. She made her choice literally made her bed and is laying in it.
Stop concentrating on what she is doing or not doing. Start concentrating on YOU.
Thanks Cwarrior!
I think it’s the right thing to do because I want to be in a healthier position when i move out not depressed around my kids. I need time to detach more before I am solo with them. I need time to prepare the place and find furniture and so on. And finally it gives my wife a chance to process this before she gets the kids into it and it changes their life too.
So how is it not the right thing to do to secure furniture and move into your own place ASAP? I thought you guys already talked to kids? If not I'd get that out of the way, your W ain't coming back any time soon.
Yeah she has told them we are seperating they get it so nothing else to say.
Financially I don’t have the means to secure furniture right now. Also I wasn’t trying to make it where my kids have to go live in the apt with OM this fast. It’s only been a month and a half since they got told this and a few days since I figured out that OM was our “friend” so I wanted to buy them a little more time. Once he begins to be around them and starts bonding with them it’s going to get real for them until W drops the “he’s my boyfriend” on them or my son confronts her cause he is sharp I’m trying to hold off on that a bit longer.
I just let her know I’m taking them to my new place on the first if she still wants to be with OM whatever happens to our family after that is on her. I can’t be blamed for “forcing” her to take the kids there now, I knew that would come and I’m not stepping on that mine. When she is here on her days I’ll just go over to my apartment alone so we don’t gotta be in contact. I’m giving her a bit of time to feel this out before the kids get into it. And giving myself some time to detach and process this before living alone. I am not doing this for her, I’m doing it for them.
So in order to delay the inevitable, you are going to continue to live in your IN-LAWS house?
Steve_, maybe you are right and all of this is the right thing, I'll let others chime in. But what I am trying to get you to see that you continue to make decisions out of fear and weakness. Not boldness and strength. You are continuing to try to control things and have an irrational hope that suddenly something will change in a month and all of this will just magically go away.
IE, you are still in denial, and you are still not acting like an alpha.
When I moved out on my own in my early 20s, I had people coming out of the woodwork to give me things. I had a dining table, a lounge chair, an entertainment center, all in decent shape just given to me. I paid $50 for a used reclining couch. I got four dining chairs at a warehouse club for $15/each. I got lamps others had just sitting around that they didn't want. Not only that but there is craigslist, the Salvation Army. Etc. WHERE THERE IS A WILL THERE IS A WAY! Stop making excuses.
Yeah you are right. I made excuses but I can’t go back on it now it would be double beta male to make a choice and then go back on it. I’m just gonna spend her days with the kids away from her at my place and my days with them at her parents. I’m not trying to push when OM is pushing pushing pushing I tried to offer breathing room before the kids get involved. I thought it was the right thing to do, she responded very positive to it as well. We sort of left off on a good note. . I got advice from a marriage helper coach to make her and the kids life easy, go with the flow and stop talking to her. That’s what I tried to do. Might have been the right choice or the wrong one but it’s done. I will just focus on detaching during this time and offering my kids the last month of stable life they got. I took them fishing today and just tried to not think. Last night I went to sleep and tried to not think about her having dinner with friends and family announcing the big betrayal and then being together now. I’m trying to be out of the way, not pushy and just a good person. That wants my kids out of it as long as I can. That’s why I did it. I don’t expect her to change her mind in a month. Just wanted to give her that space and not be captain consequences. After the first she can’t act like it’s my fault they are there she was given time after she complained it’s moving too fast. I did my best she can’t blame me 1% now. I know if there is ever a recon work has to happen inside her and that involves facing reality I just did not want to be seen as the enemy here she would totally use this to justify her actions of if I up and moved out trust me I know her. Even if she is 1000% wrong she still will put it on me but hey Now she cannot and it’s all on her come the first. I’m okay with that.
I'm missing why the 1st means it's all on her and not you. If she can blame you now she can blame you on Dec. 2nd. But you seem convinced. But I also see you still trying to nice her back. You can't.
Yeah I know I can’t. Only time and reality may get her back. But she was like if you just leave i got no choice. Giving her time puts it on her. Not me. I won’t be the one blamed for the kids being brought into this too soon.
I have to say learning about OM and someone I knew a few days ago was like a whole new BD. I’m doing the best I can I fight wanting to call her, tell her this is all wrong, I haven’t. Not once. It’s been hard but I have validated and just supported it from a distance. She has been amazed how I have not been a crazy mess as usual.l she has said this herself. The truth is that I am a crazy mess but I’m holding it in. I’m doing this for the kids and the future. I’m gonna let myself finally break down and see it tonight. Accept it. I feel it on my shoulders now, the weight of reality. I was in denial. I know she isn’t coming back. Not for a long time if ever. And I know I’ll find someone better and won’t want to come back. I need to face this and grieve instead of just pretending it’s gonna be ok. It isn’t. And that’s ok. I have to let my dream of my perfect family die. It’s the only way I can go forward. And it’s the only thing I can do now.
Steve, I am only new here so I can't offer too much in the way of advice. One thing I do know though is focus on you, you can do it, if others on this forum can do it, then anyone can. Those who have gone before you have no special powers or talents that allow them to achieve any more or less than you can. It just takes a consistent effort, like anything in life. You know this and you can do it!
Listen to the vets, take on their advice wholeheartedly, thats why you cam here. I am sure you didn't come here to ask questions and then ignore them. There are enough threads on her where the OPs did that only to lament their decision not to follow the advice given later down the track, read Wolfman's thread.
You know what I’m sick of this crap. My father in law came in my room and asked me what’s up I told him I’m gonna take the kids fishing today, and that the wife is having dinner with friends. I told him my plan to stay another month he disagreed. Said I should worry about myself. He told his wife (her mom) when they were going out to dinner jokingly they should go to my wife’s new place to have dinner. I didn’t think it was a big deal, well she lied to them and said she went to work so her mom called her and said your having dinner with friends? Things are coming out? Well she got curious, W calls me pissed for betraying her trust and telling people that she’s having dinner and revealing stuff. I told my father in law she is having dinner and I’m taking the kids out. She went off like “wow I can’t trust you, your talking behind my back etc etc..” She then went on to say if you gonna tell everyone then I’m just gonna do this. F it let me go then and get over it.” I said no. I haven’t told anyone details and nobody knows just the people your inviting but things are getting real one way or the other, she said I know what I’m doing” I was like c’mon man he is forcing you into this, he told his whole family your together and made plans with our kids. I already know come December first your gonna tell me what i don’t want to hear, your gonna ask me for more time and keep riding this out, I was just trying to keep the kids out of it” she said I “gotta go, bye” I told her in a text after that obviously I haven’t revealed anything since her phone hasn’t exploded, I know she would rather hurt me than him that’s why she continues and that if she is gonna treat me this way I’m just gonna leave, I’ve been nothing but good to her and she’s doing me like this” dude I’m so tired of this this web of lies and everything else I can’t take it. If she doesn’t make some serious amends I’m moving out. I’m tired of protecting her from reality, she can choose this man. Yes this was a big negative interaction but lies on top of lies just set the stage for it. I’m stuck here because I let myself be. She is gonna make this right or I’m just gonna move out man. This is rediculous. I am so fearful of losing her I’m just losing her. This is stupid as hell im gonna pull the trigger on moving out unless she reaches out to me with some serious apologizes. And I mean it.
Yep, this is what I was trying to tell you. Dec. 1st. Tomorrow, or sometime in n 2021, it doesn't matter. She'll still blame you. This is why you focus on you, do what you need to do. Forget her and let her do and say what she's going to. You can't change it, you have no control over it. You move on and become awesome..... For you!
I’m here to say you guys were right this whole time. Tried to tell me. I didn’t listen. I don’t think is too late in the process for DBing to be effective for more than me but I’m focused on me now. She clearly could care less what this is done to me. I set a foot down today and said if your gonna do me like this I’m done. I get a text saying “my phone was off” so I said “listen I’ve had your back i been good to you, if you can’t see what you mean to me after all that I am giving up so stop the craziness, there is zero reason to Treat me this way, good nite” she relied straight away with “okay good nite”.
I grabbed my balls and she responded right away. Not some long loving response but she answered. Things are neutral again at least. she went off on me and now looks stupid. Good for her she earned it. I haven’t done a damn thing against her and I got zero reason to apologize. I will put the deposit on this apartment tomorrow. Get it ready for moving this week and hang out there when she’s around here. I’ve been nothing but supportive, cool and understanding and validating at this point there is nothing on me I can walk away from this dumpster fire feeling good that I did right by her and the kids. Now it’s time to do right. By me. She ain’t gonna change her mind, I see that. Maybe if I let go she might feel it but im not holding my breath just like sandi said a WW takes any excuse to resent and disrespect you I’m done giving her reasons. I’m unplugging this game. Should have two months ago but I was weak and sad. Time for me to man up and not care what effect it has on her. I did my best to cater and protect. Any woman worth a damn can see how awesome I was for her. Now it’s about me. She can deal with her attitude and choices. I feel validated in myself. She pissed me off today. Pushed me away the last time I’ll post again if anything changes. So y’all can laugh at the crazy ass responses I’ll get for doing me that are totally expected. She’s gonna come unglued I am prepared for it. It’s funny now that I’ve read and learned so much and i know every sick move she’s gonna try. Thank you.
Thought this was a great post in regards to telling the kids.
IMO you should have taken your S's side in the argument and be a leader of the family. I think your son was sort of counting on you to have his back. Try to be more alpha.
With that in mind I agree with you to not play the D as a "mutual" thing. That being said, it is not the paramount thing here. I do believe this is what LH had in mind. If you go on a defensive from the start, the true message will be lost. And the true message is twofold:
1. what ever happens, your kids must be ABSOLUTELY sure that you love them both.
AND
2. they have to know that the divorce is NOT their fault in any shape or form. And this point must be reiterated several times during the conversation.
With that being said, the end point is that it IRRELEVANT who's fault the divorce is. The truth will come out sooner or later and rest assured, the truth will come out. I would suggest you and your W agree prior to the talk that you will not go down the mutual D talk road .
Mumin, yes that is a good post. Keeps the two most important aspects of telling the kids in mind. However, Steve_ sitch is a bit different in that his WW already took it upon herself to tell the kids. This is why I am not sure why he thought this extra month mattered. It seemed like misplaced importance that Steve_ was placing on this extra month. "The kids won't be at her place with OM for another month." Control. "She seemed upset about me moving out." NGS
Steve_ has struggled with trying to control what he can't, and continuing to give in to his NGS. It is time he starts working on both of those things. Nothing frustrates a LBH more than trying to control what he has no control over. Nothing complicates DBing more than a LBH that has unchecked NGS. Until he reigns in his desire to control what he can't, and his NGS he will continue to struggle and be stuck in place. Which is why I was trying to get him to see that his arbitrary Dec. 1st move out was a fallacy.
Mumin I also agree that it is irrelevant whose fault the divorce is.
Parents over-focus on this aspect. I choose to believe that consistent parenting, showing my kids I love them unconditionally, is much more important than trying to convince them of the rightness of my version of the past.
Hopefully when my kids are grown up I can look back and say I was right to believe this.
And Steve_ ... listen to Steve85.
What you can actually control in your life is so so little. Let go of the reins a bit.
You are in the middle of the tailspin. I know what it feels like and it's excruciating. Trust in the vets here. These people helped me through some very very difficult times. They know what they are talking about.
Well she texted me a bunch of crazy stuff today. I responded gently and calmly. It was going to be a long texting back and forth regarding bills so I called her. She was crying. She said I just woke up and I said no, your crying.. she said “I’m fine” she went on to explain how the extra month of rent on the house hurt her and she needed the deposit back for something. She began to blame her financial struggles on me and then lamented that she doesn’t want to have to get serious with OM to get the money she needs. I seen this for what it is.. manipulation. I just said look, if it’s that important for you I will cover the last months rent on the house with my deposit. And I’ll come up with the rest. I know that the rent was my job to cover so I’ll do it. Also I’m getting the apartment Friday so I’lll move my stuff out of the storage. I did send you half the money for the storage. She tried to continue being upset and mad and then asked me to pay the kids life insurance policies I told her no, that’s what I pay child support for. I took the day off yesterday because she had plans and then picked up another day to cover it, sent her my schedule for the month and said here is the update. She responded with Okay, thank you.
I have been doing my best to do the right thing here. Be very understanding and supportive of this situation. I don’t beg her back I don’t whine that I miss her I just pretty much give her room and don’t ask questions. When she comes to me to fight I defuse it and I don’t let her go to bed angry with me ever. If she has to force herself to hate me to justify what she is doing she gonna have to become an archaeologist to dig up the past because I’ve been super cool through all this. I’m sure that pisses her off too lol. Once I get into the apartment Friday things will be easier for me and I am starting to really see just how morally corrupt and selfish she is being. She’s on a path of destruction. I’m just waving the traffic by smiling. My father in law said today “Steve you don’t have to do that, but I know you are doing the right thing, I don’t know how you take this so lightly, hang in there” it was nice to hear.
I’ve given up hope she will stop this and come back. At least not any time soon. It’s like LH19 said, it will be a long haul. It absolutely rips my guts out she left me for this guy but I just keep quiet and keep it to myself and my marriage therapist friends at work. They don’t even know how I can go to work, honestly me either. This will get better I think letting go of my hope helps. I know come Dec 1st she will stay with OM. No sense in thinking anything else.
I am speechless. Steve_ good luck buddy, I'll pop in occasionally to give you moral support.
Steve, the best thing that happened to me was asking H to leave our home! It was 2 months after he broke things off, we still lived together and it was torture for me. I dont know how other people do it, how they share the house and detach. Distance was so crucial to me detaching from H, breaking the emotional attachment.
Our comma now is minimal, only about kids or any logistics. Am i fully detached? Ill be honest if we didnt have two beautiful children i would be NC! The only thing that bothers me now (7 months after bd) is the aitch with the kids. The rest is totally irrelevant, his constant parking fines, his occasionally unnecessary lies and so on, its like i have immunity to it now.
You will get there, but i honestly think you need to get away from her as far away as possible. It could be years, it could be never. It could be too late, and u simply wont be interested.
Kids-your kids will be fine, providing that you are their rock. Be their stability, provide them with emotional safety.
Yeah I don’t plan on being around her, I’m going to start avoiding her like the plague. There is quite literally nothing else for us to talk about now. The last of the financials are done, she knows what the arrangement with the apartment is. The child care is sorted and everything is on the table now so there is no need to have any words with her, no need for me to see her. I’m going to just pull back and walk away from this. There is no way she is leaving him soon. I can see that. Everything she said to me was bulls*#t. All of it’s been that way. She’s been a lying cheating scumbag who left me for a lying cheating scumbag. From this point on whatever happens next is on her. Part of me wants to just tell everyone what she and he did but it’s not my place so I’ll just let it unravel on it’s own. She deserves whatever is coming her way after this.
Holy smokes!
I haven’t been following your thread but I saw the last few posts.
Steve, you are doing this is all wrong. Giving her money (or any kind of assistance while she is with OM) is pursuit and a big no-no.
Your W clearly manipulates you, because she knows she can. Why do you play along? She can’t love you if she doesn’t respect you. And she very clearly does not respect you, at all.
Have you read Divorce Remedy?
I have not but I ordered it. I did not give her money. I just simply agreed to pay the final rent on the house we did not move into. My job was always to pay the rent so I just agreed to do it one last time. We were not expecting an additional month of rent after vacating the home before nov 1. And because the deposit was put in I agreed to split it and just use my half for the rent. It’s not like I was over here offering to give her money for things. I haven’t given her $1. Besides what was agreed to when she filed D. This was an unexpected expense and one i always took care of for the previous 10 years.
I know that’s why you said what you said Steve85. But what I did today was not NGS or pursuit. I told her I won’t pay extra for the kids life insurance either she can take it out of the child support. I did it because it was the right thing to do and I’m not trying to have her fight me for more money before we fill out the financials on the D papers. If I get into it now over 450$ it will cost me much later. I chose my battle not about pursuing at all.
I can assure you guys you will be much happier with how I do moving forward. Yesterday was an awakening. I’m just going to move on with my life seperate from her quietly and calmly. I won’t let her BS storm shake me. I spent the day seperating my accounts, getting my money in order and getting ready to move Friday. Picking up extra shifts at work and so on. I have no delusion she will come back. I’m looking forward to not wanting her anymore in a few months actually.
I know that’s why you said what you said Steve85. But what I did today was not NGS or pursuit. I told her I won’t pay extra for the kids life insurance either she can take it out of the child support. I did it because it was the right thing to do and I’m not trying to have her fight me for more money before we fill out the financials on the D papers. If I get into it now over 450$ it will cost me much later. I chose my battle not about pursuing at all.
Clearly you don't know why I said what I said. First she snaps her fingers by texting and you jump. Start texting her back. Why? Then you call her? Why why? Then you ask her about crying even when she gives you an excuse. Why why why? Then you offer her money? Why why why why?
Steve, this woman is a lying cheating manipulator. She had cheated on you multiple times, left you, and yet she still manipulates you. And you allow it. And I know you do it because you love her but sometimes people cannot be fixed or changed.
I fell for a girl years ago. She turned out to be a lesbian. No matter what I could have done to prove myself to her, guess what, we weren't going to be together! I fell for another woman that didn't believe in traditional male-female relationships. Dave thing, no matter how much I cared about her she wasn't going to open up to a love relationship with me. I'm on record here multiple times about a decades long on again off again relationship I had with a girl that just couldn't see me as more than a friend. No matter what I did that was all she was ever going to see me as.
This woman is incapable of being in a loving, committed relationship with you. She a liar. She's a cheater. She's a manipulator. And she's does all this with no concern for how it makes you feel. That is sociopathic. That means that she is incapable of caring about anyone but herself. Ask yourself what kind of mother she has been through all of this? A mother that prioritizes her kids above everything else? Or a mother that prioritizes herself over her kids?
Steve_, you have to move on with your life. You need to prioritize your kids first, yourself second, and this woman not even in the list! Go dark. LRT. Follow the rules of that strictly. Stand up for yourself and quit being spineless with this woman. Find your inner strength, be respect yourself and stop letting her walk all over you.
That is all I got for your Steve_. You haven't DB'd a minute in your situation. Or followed a shred of advice. And that's why you continue to struggle and are stuck. Find your self-esteem and move forward.
Yeah. Something happened a little while ago that really made me realize how damn stupid I have been. I was sitting at the table doing my finances. Trying to work things out. After I take everything I got in my life scrape it off and start over if I work my ass off I can have about 1300 a month to spare when it’s all said and done. I’m 36 got two college degrees and I’m starting over again with our two babies. The quality of life I was able to give them before went to close 10% of that. I stopped thinking so much today about what she’s doing and started thinking about what she is doing to me. She called me 4 times I haven’t answered. She sent me a picture of her walking and I didn’t answer. She told me I look so good, I didn’t answer. Not because I’m pissed, not because I want her to miss me. I didn’t answer her because she left me for a friend and she is betraying and destroying her family and me and our kids and I can’t even stand to talk to her. Her mom offered to pay $1700 for bunk beds I can’t do that. I will get something cheap on amazon. It’s crazy, every single person I tell the story to that is a friend including the things I did wrong tells me that she’s just not a good person. It [censored] but like DBing says, consistent actions = change and my consistent actions equal attachment and NGS, and hers = a wayward wife who doesn’t give a single F what damage this is doing. The longer I protect her from it the worse it gets. I’ve decided not to tell everyone, I’ve decided to just shoulder it and move forward. But I really won’t help her anymore. I won’t fight with her. I’ll just leave her alone and worry about me. Today standing in the furniature store with her mom and looking for a bed for my kids, knowing the hardships ahead just hit me. She doesn’t care anymore and she’s not coming back. Only a totally selfish and heartless person could do this, I used to think she was an amazing woman and an amazing mother. I don’t think that anymore. I’m sorry Steve you have given a lot of effort on my sitch. I am going to take you guys serious from now on. It was never about some magic thing working, it was about realizing how messed up this is and valuing myself, don’t give up on me yet you guys, it’s been tough but I’ll get there. I don’t even want to speak to her anymore I look at her now and her beauty and charm looks like a diseased creature of sin. F her. I was so nice and she still left me. What an idiot. I will admit your advice seemed to hard to do, like it wouldn’t work like i need to show her that love her and she was wrong about me. Again, what an idiot.
Hi Steve,
everything is on the table now
You've repeated this phrase in several posts. Please note that she's a lying cheater. One consequence is that there's no reason to believe she's put everything on the table, nor that what she put out there is true.
She called me 4 times I haven’t answered. She sent me a picture of her walking and I didn’t answer. She told me I look so good, I didn’t answer. Not because I’m pissed, not because I want her to miss me. I didn’t answer her because she left me for a friend and she is betraying and destroying her family and me and our kids and I can’t even stand to talk to her.
Anger? Good job not answering her calls and working to get a place of your own. You have been unable to resist the long talkies (always "final"). I'm rooting for you to maintain this one. Often WAS trying to keep their hook in will dig and dig to find an excuse (e.g. "urgent", "for the kids") to break your resolve. Space is good for detachment. Detach enough, and she may worry about losing her easy-to-manipulate ex and her plan b. You say she has come back after affairs before. I hope you realize what you are writing about her, and starting to get even if she came back the answer should probably be no unless and until she proved herself changed (e.g., not being "nice" because she has "nowhere to go" while she "tries" to work on changes.) It's a hard road just ahead, but you sound like a good person, deserving a good partner.
I put the kids picture of them fishing on my profile pic. OM was still Facebook friends and the dude put a heart reaction on it. It set me off. Then the wife called and texted asking why i was asleep and the kids are awake. They were lying to get her to come home. I pretty much said. “ Look, I’m done. Tell him to leave me alone. I blocked him and i don’t want him around me. I loved you a lot and I should have got over things and gave you my best, I’ve done everything i can for you and now I’m just done, so from now on please stop calling me, texting me or talking to me unless it’s about the kids or an emergency. I need you to respect that. Thanks.”
I’m not backing down here. Doing this limbo crap is crushing me I need to let go. She needs to know to stop the games. It had to be done. I’m going radio silence. I probably won’t have much of an update for awhile but if anything changes I’ll let you guys know.
They were lying to get her to come home.
Steve stop babbling about your psychopath [censored] of a wife. That up there is the ONLY thing that should really consume your time for the next few weeks.
Yep your right. It defiantly hurts that she wants to spend time with OM more than the kids. She wanted months away. I even found a note book the other day of all the stuff she wrote for him to his wife detailing the ins and outs of his divorce. They planned on having the kids at the same time so they can spend 3 days a week together with no kids. I took photos of it and saved in in case I need it for a layer some day. These two have planned this out for months and destroyed both our families. My poor kids don’t even know what hit them. Except his kids will they are like 6, 11, 13. Or something. Great kids too. These two people are just sick. Anyways I doubt much will be going on now that I’m just gonna focus on the kids and moving out. I’ll update if anything worth noting occurs.
I’m just gonna focus on the kids and moving out. I’ll update if anything worth noting occurs.
This.
Get to the place where all the rest (what she is doing, planning, has planned) is white noise.
It's hard reading your journal, we have all been there man and are routing for you to claw out this pschological ditch.
Trust what the heavy weight vets are saying, don't disregard or lose their interest. No more telling us what you should be doing - Just do it and tell us the results later.
I'm following your sitch S. I look forward to reading about your personal success around true detachment, you have been given the tools, knowledge and support.
No more snooping and no more finding journals, it only hurts you.
Take the step up out of this muddy, stagnant ditch.
Hi Steve. I’m neffer. I’ve been following the forum from the shadows because of work. I needed to login in to tell you something. DBing is for yourself, we don’t care about your STBXW. You should be doing the same.
Listen to what everybody is saying. Get DB remedy and keep it as a treasure. Changes must happen on the only thing you can control: yourself.
So stand up for yourself and your kids. Face reality with dignity. You need to be the role model for your kids to follow. Respect yourself.
We are all team Steve here. You need to be into that team too.
Keep posting your updates: YOUR updates.
Be strong man. It gets better and it depends on you. Be there!
I even found a note book the other day of all the stuff she wrote for him to his wife detailing the ins and outs of his divorce.
You're likely to discover new lies and deceit as long as you dig for it.
Anyways I doubt much will be going on now..
How much you focus on her daily dramas is a choice. I bet her drama will continue for some time.
that I’m just gonna focus on the kids and moving out.
That would be a great choice!!
I’ll update if anything worth noting occurs.
Notable--Steve not engaging in talkies, Steve working on making the new apartment happen and a great home for his kids, Steve spending time on GAL activities like fitness, hobbies, friends, and education. Not notable - How ex-wife claims to feel about OM each day, how much ex-wife likes your choices.
Took me a year, but getting off Facebook is helping greatly. Should have done so early on but I was too busy worried about what she was doing.
Took me a year, but getting off Facebook is helping greatly. Should have done so early on but I was too busy worried about what she was doing.
If more LBSs would jettison SM they'd DB so much better.
Took me a year, but getting off Facebook is helping greatly. Should have done so early on but I was too busy worried about what she was doing.
If more LBSs would jettison SM they'd DB so much better.
I agree wholeheartedly. The LBS just can't resist touching the hot stove.
Man times are tough. I don’t say anything to her but she plans on taking kids over there tonight with OM. She told me she will sleep in seperate rooms so they don’t figure it out and it doesn’t hurt them. I appreciate that at least. But it doesn’t help how torn up I am.
I think it’s obvious but this D and her leaving me for this friend have just totally destroyed me. I have times of the day most of the day that I try to do other things to keep my mind of her but I can’t. I have a churning in the pit of my stomach that just is utter fear, defeat, regret and just suffering. I really miss her, I can’t stand that he has her now. And that she just walked away with him from everything we had. I don’t say anything but this just kills me inside. I think when I get my next day off I’m going to the VA hospital to see my psychiatrist for depression medication. I’m in such a low and dark place and I cannot breathe. I have every right to hate her guts and I can’t I Just want her to come home. And I know that either she never will, or it won’t be for a long time. 6 months at least from now to a couple years. And that’s if OM doesn’t pan out. The signs are there that she is serious enough to lie to all of us, hurt the kids, destroy our family make us sell the home lie lie lie and move in with him. Sometimes I try to focus on the anger and betrayal. But that doesn’t last long I just end up missing her.
Steve,
I'm sorry you're hurt and going through this.
I understand that you want your wife back but that shouldn't be your focus right now. You're focus should be on you and your kids.
Your best shot at getting her back is to improve yourself and honestly I think once you get there you may not want her back.
From what I've read she's left you 5 different times? correct me if I'm wrong.
You're selling yourself short by thinking you deserve that.
Steve how long has it been since bomb day?
I decided to stop trying to go this alone. I called my doctor and made an appointment for mental health at the VA. My sitch isn’t gonna just turn around if I do X or Y it’s going to take time. I know time is on my side no matter how this pans out. It’s just tough. Honestly I’m really depressed. Thanks for not giving up on my everyone. I know I’ve done a lot of mistakes. But I’m trying to move on the right way.
Bomb day was like 2 months ago. But OM being my friend and it all was a lie that she wanted space and freedom and realizing it was him was exactly a week ago.
Steve, mate, I am so sorry you are feeling like this, and know that you are not alone in feeling this way. I have no doubt the majority in here have felt this way at one time or another. Sooner or later you have to make a choice. You do know that deep down this will not last forever, no matter what happens, so why not choose today to be the day it stops. You have a choice, it may not happen immediately but the choice is yours, you have the control. I felt like this just yesterday, so I cried then I wrote a letter getting all my anger out, then I went and had an awesome afternoon with my S4. I read some positive inspiring posts on here and told myself today is the day I stop talking about it, I stop focusing on her and I start becoming the man that I want to be. Guess what Steve, I feel better today. Maybe it will only last until the next time, but maybe the next time is weeks or months away and lasts hours instead of days.
You got this mate, but it won’t just happen automatically. Forget this idea of if you can just get through six months that she might be back, or if it ends with OM there’ll be a chance. The future does not exist, deal with what is happening now, and that is that you are strong and capable and you can do this.
Steve,
OB is right that many of us here have been where you are. I understand the pain and am sorry you're going through it.
I think its a great idea to get some outside help.
It wont last forever. It gets better.
Im 5 months out and its gotten a lot easier.
OB is spot on that it wont happen automatically.
Sometimes its easier to stay down and wallow in the pain but it will only make it worse.
Incremental improvement is unstoppable in my opinion. Try to make progress everyday even if its small.
You do that for enough days in a row and after a few months youll be amazed at your progress.
Its got to be a conscious decision you make to move on and accept whats happened.
Don't focus on a timeline of how long it will take to get her back, that's the exact opposite of what you need to be doing.
Focus on a timeline for yourself. Set some goals for YOU.
Set a goal for 7 days
set a goal for 30 days
set a goal for 90 days
set a goal for 6 months.
Set these goals and then use incremental improvement to go after these things and achieve them.
It will help you get your confidence back.
Get brutally honest with yourself.
What are some things that you've been putting off. What are some things you've always wanted but never tried.
Set some goals and go after them steve.
Yeah I think I’ll set it here so I can hold myself accountable:
Friday move in. Have a friend stay with me so I don’t stay alone.
Next Friday: have not called her, texted her or anything besides kids/work.
The Friday after that: find a gym for cheap and get signed up. See a psychiatrist get on
Depression meds (VA Takes awhile so I’ll start taking the Zoloft I have on hand and get a RX later)
When my STBXW is having her surgery and i have the kids the two weeks take them fishing or do something fun with them that I can afford.
She's a player, Steve, and she's going to continue playing games with you, until she's convinced you can't be manipulated. She'll ask what's wrong. She'll be all nice-nice. She'll have a pity-party. She'll try to get you to rescue her. She'll test you every way imaginable. Photo of her walking? That's a test. Sending you a meme? It's a test. Photos of the kids? Test. Text you "good morning"? It's a test. Ask how you are feeling? Test! Act flirty? Same test! Want to cry on your shoulder? Same test! She will say or do anything to get a response from you. What will really tick her off is to ignore her, but at this particular time slot......that's what you basically have to do, or you'll get sucked into her game playing. So, your biggest challenge will be to keep your mouth closed and don't respond. At this particular stage, I'd even suggest you forget validating her feelings for the time being. I get really frustrated at LBH's always trying to work a validation into the conversation, and I see him getting side-tracked and pulled in, and he doesn't even know it. He thinks he is DBing. My advice for your current situation is don't have conversations with her! Have you ever broke up with a girl/woman you could no longer tolerate? That's kind of how you have to initially act toward the WW. Remember this, Steve, it is not about how well you treat her or even how much you love her. It's all about respect. Look up the definite for "wayward". There is nothing you can say to her that will turn her around. The status of your MR has changed, and currently, you cannot show what a terrific, sweet H you can be to her. If there is no respect for the man, there will be no romantic love/attraction from the woman. There is only one thing a WW respects in a man, and it's masculine confidence & strength.
I want to comment about something else. Remember when she got so mad over her parents learning the truth, and accused you of betraying her? Do you see the craziness here? Want to hear something that is even more crazy than the WW accusing her LBH of betraying her? It's the LBH thinking he is suppose to cover for his cheating wayward W. What?! He has some type of mindset that he has to prove she can trust him. She's the liar and cheat, and she's expecting you to cover her a$$ while she carries on with OM, and deceives her family while she does it. You've helped to cover up the truth, and I promise you it will not earn her respect or love.
With that said, I'm not telling you to expose her to the world. I'm just saying that this is the wrong type of mindset for the LBH to have with a WW. She will twist you so many ways you won't recognize yourself anymore. I can't begin to tell how many cases I've seen where the WW turns it on the LBH, and tells him she can't trust him. It is one of her favorite manipulations. It takes the spotlight off her indiscretions and focuses on the LBH. See what I mean?
Here's the problem. You looked at the mistakes you made in the relationship and decided to 180 those things she complained about. Sounds reasonable, except it doesn't work with a wayward W. She has removed herself from the umbrella of benefits she would receive as your W. Your protection, for example. B/c you are a decent guy and want to prove what a good husband you can be, you entered this covert contact to help her lie and deceive people. You have been dumped, duped and played. It's time to shut down the nice-guy, and find that man who values himself more than this.
You can't begin to comprehend the cold & selfish mindset of the WW! The kinder you are to her, the worse she'll treat you. Your NGS killed the attraction, and she uses your NGS to manipulate you. How dare she bawl you out for not covering her lies to her parents! Do you see what I'm saying?
I think you are rather proud of your nice-guy ways, and are very offended that she did not appreciate them. It makes no sense, right? It will probably take you a long time before you begin to understand the unattractive side of NGS in the MR. I think you may have a little trouble knowing where your need for people pleasing ends, and where your self respect begins. I encourage you to continue studying about NGS, b/c you will do the same thing in the next relationship if you don't really get the issue in NGS and how it affects romantic long-term relationships. Don't think you will be able to approach her another way to show her something different about yourself. At this point, you need to let it go.
This entire time you have been focused on her. You can't heal or move forward very well until you stop trying to change her mind. It's time for you to go into self protection mode.
((hugs))
Thanks Sandi. I will definitely take that to heart. I see now no matter what I do or say it’s pointless this is over and I need to just let her go.
I can't begin to tell how many cases I've seen where the WW turns it on the LBH, and tells him she can't trust him.
I can vouch for this, found all her lies in her messages, guess what she says...I need to earn her trust back!
She is taking kids tonight and overnight with OM at her place. She told me she didn’t want to do that until she was ready. Again she says one thing and does another. I just don’t understand her anymore. She says “if I wanted to tell everyone this is what I want I could, there is no need to buy time” but then she does things that are opposite of that moving right along with OM. I feel like this is just getting the kids adjusted to this day by day until they are there and she’s sleeping in our bed with him and it’s the new normal. It [censored] to swallow that pill but I don’t believe what she says, and Im sure this is another of her 1,000 lies. I need to just remind myself the M is over, it has been for some time and thinking anything else is just a recipe for more hurt. I just hate the lying, i would rather have the hard truth than all these lies. I am holding myself back from accepting and grieving this because each lie she says that she is still “thinking about it or seeing if this is what she wants” keeps me from accepting it. She does this to keep me as plan B. It’s just sick.
I understand Steve, the lying [censored], you are not alone in this. It’s hard because the lying feels like such a dagger, but it’s not personal, they all do it. My W since the day I met said she hates liars and cheats more than anything. She cut a good friend out of her life because she lied once. Since BD, I’ve lost count of the times she has looked me in the eye and flat out lied. Even when I’ve shown her proof, she’ll lie more about that. Funnily enough, when I read her messages to OM, she had lied to him too!
I dropped the kids off. No talks just loaded the car. She commented to me “damn dude are you on a starvation diet” I said “no” it’s funny i actually ate some pizza today lol. She asked “is that it” I said “yep” and she backed away all awkward towards her car like I was gonna snap or something. I just gave her a hug and walked away. She stood there for a second watching me walk off. I think she could defiantly see the pain in my eyes as I handed our kids over. But I did not cry, I did talk. I just did the thing and left. I wont respond to her at all until it’s time to pick up the kids. Being so available doesn’t allow her to miss me and feel any loss like I am going through. I want her to feel that she is losing me too, because she is so I’m just gonna stop talking I’ve been really good at keeping it short and business. No anger just short.
Oh I can garuntee she lies to OM lol he has no idea what he gave up for her, the second he gets comfortable he’s toast. She’s not even sexually attracted to him is is just a “nice guy” that made her feel special and heard when I didn’t. He’s on the road to disaster I garuntee it lol. It’s a matter of time. She will stay with him and be unhappy and probably cheat or just stay with him and be miserable. He’s shiny and new now, but there was a reason his marriage sucked too and them getting together and being in love didn’t teach them a damn thing. I’m the one that learned here
You hugged her? You hug the woman cheating on you ?
Steve_ you really need to read DR. Until then treat her like the cashier in the store (read sandi's rules and know them inside and out).
Steve I want to start off by saying that I understand you are hurting and my heart goes out to you and your children. I also want to say that this will probably be my last post to you because I think you are so jacked up on emotion that you will not take anything out of it. Your number one goal should be to forget about your marriage and save yourself because honestly I am concerned you may do something drastic to you or her. You mentioned getting help from VA and I think it's an excellent idea.
You like most people including myself came to this board a broken person. Let's face it healthy people would not be trying to save a marriage when the other spouse wants out and is usually having an affair. A healthy person would be the one doing the walking and filing for divorce. When you get here the number one and only goal is to save your marriage. It takes a really long time to switch gears and realize the best thing to do is to save yourself and in turn it is also the best thing to do to save your marriage. When you have been here a really long time and you become healthy and strong from all the work you put in you realize the best thing to do is to find another partner that is happy and healthily like you. That is rarely your spouse or ex spouse because they typically don't do the work necessary. If you come here and do the work you become the Another Stander, Steve85, Ginger, DejaVu and Mr. Brightside's of the board. If you do not you will become the Wolfman or the Andy P's of the board. I suspect you won't be around long because you will be out searching the internet for the magic bullet.
I will give you some feedback on your last encounter.
She asked “is that it” I said “yep” and she backed away all awkward towards her car like I was gonna snap or something.
She doesn't feel safe and comfortable around you and that is a must for a woman.
I just gave her a hug and walked away.
I already addressed this but you know that shouldn't of happened.
She stood there for a second watching me walk off. I think she could defiantly see the pain in my eyes as I handed our kids over.
Seeing you in pain is not attractive. Seeing you happy and tapping your toes is attractive.
I want her to feel that she is losing me too, because she is so I’m just gonna stop talking I’ve been really good at keeping it short and business. No anger just short.
Did you ever see the Seinfeld episode where Kramer stops talking because he keeps getting in trouble with his mouth? That's what you remind me of where he keeps saying "starting now".
Oh I can garuntee she lies to OM lol he has no idea what he gave up for her, the second he gets comfortable he’s toast.
Can you predict the future?
She’s not even sexually attracted to him is is just a “nice guy” that made her feel special and heard when I didn'’t.
This is where you are wrong and don't understand women. If he makes her feel special and heard that's what she is attracted to. You did not and that is one of the many reasons she's no longer attracted to you anymore.
He’s on the road to disaster I garuntee it lol. It’s a matter of time. She will stay with him and be unhappy and probably cheat or just stay with him and be miserable.
Can you predict the future? Also you paint such a glowing picture of her. Why do you want her back?
I’m the one that learned here
What did you learn Steve?
You are WAAAAYYYY to concerned with her learning a lesson, feeling remorse/regret, etc. Who cares? This is about you, Steve. Forget her. Your W is an awful human being, and you deserve much better than that. Her reactions and choices should be like water off a duck's back to you. STOP TALKING TO HER!!!! And don't get me started with that hug. Were you trying to smell OM's cologne on her or something? She a horrible, lying cheater. Stay away from her. Friday can't get here soon enough, my friend. You'll do a lot better once you get in the new place...
Your apartment should be your new focus. And your frame of mind on the subject should be positive. You're NOT going to wallow in pity and cry about how your family is broken. You're NOT going to let this new place be a place of sadness and depression. This is a new start. A new, better life. It's exciting! You get your own place to do whatever it is you want with. Have fun picking new things out with your kids. Make this new pad awesome! You're gonna want to be there. You're kids are gonna want to be there. It will be a drama free no BS zone. It's going to be great. Don't let your mind trick you into thinking anything otherwise...
yeah I definitely should not have hugged her. I see how that was stupid and needy. I just wanted things to be on good terms, she had that look on her face like "this is awkward" She knew she told me that she wouldn't take them there yet and she did anyway. I exaggerated by saying she was uncomfortable, like I was gonna do something, by now after all this she knows I wont. I just felt a lot of tension and tried to stop it. Like I said I didn't cry, didn't talk, just kept it 1-2 word answers and left. Havent said a word since. I think laying in my bed alone last night with my kids gone for the first time ever made me see things different. I will be honest here and Ive had hope that she might change her mind, feel regret or remorse or guilt. It [censored] but yeah she definitely is not feeling any of that, only I am and I shouldn't be. Im sticking to my goals of letting her go. Was just a tough first kid exchange. Don't give up on me guys Ill get there.
Your right LH I cant predict the future, OM could be the one for her and she may marry him and stay there forever, guess I need to accept that and stop thinking otherwise. If there is one thing that dropping my kids off in a grocery store parking lot last night taught me is that shes gone. And I need to accept it and stop trying to make her love me. She doesn't anymore.
The DB and DR books are coming tomorrow and Friday. I will probably spend a lot of time reading them in my new apartment. I have read how to be a 3% man 7 times. The rational male im working on and also ive read no more mr nice guy. I will not go out looking for a new woman, Ill spend my time there learning from this and just letting my wife live her life during this divorce. It breaks my heart to see you give up LH, I know its because thus far ive been a mess. My excuse is that OM BD was a week ago so im still torn up. But its an excuse and I know it. This is my life now, no matter what I google, read or think this is reality. And I will be ok eventually I wont leave these boards when she doesn't come back Ill keep posting, the only reason I haven't done a LOT worse is because of you guys. So thank you for taking the time to stay with my sitch. It will be a long time before any changes happen one way or the other I accept it. I don't have to chose to DB from today forward. I need to so I will, what im doing is not working. Time to stop going down cheeseless tunnels. Its just hurting me more and disappointing all of you that stuck by me.
I do want to save my marriage but I have to do it quietly and with self respect from now on. and LH I agree I wouldn't want to be married to me in the state im in right now either, Im a disaster and until I fix that there is zero chance. I wont be hugging her again that I can assure you. I feel pretty damn pathetic I did. Lesson learned.
And to answer your question LH19 this is what I've learned.
I had hope as long as she didn't take the kids there she was still "deciding" as she claimed. Well last night dropping them off it seems like she decided. Its clearly her easing them into it not deciding anything I was dumb to believe otherwise.
I learned that there is not a damn thing I can say to her that will make her see my side of this. I have done a LOT of 180's so far and she has noticed them but still moves along with the sep and the D. So after that exchange last night I realized that there is pretty much no hope that this will end up how I want it to.
Ive learned that I read all these books, come here and get advice and don't follow it, still thinking there is something I can do to chance my sitch. Again, after last night and not being with my kids anymore full time I see that there is not.
Ive made mistakes but Ive been too nice to her. Ive supported her while she had an affair. That's made it a hell of a lot easier for her to leave me and a hell of a lot harder for me to let go of the NGS. I kept thinking stopping being a NGS means being mean. No it doesn't, it just means respecting yourself and expecting others treat you the way you treat them. It means being an Aplha male like Rollo Tomassi says.
last nite I had a load of emotions dropping off the kids, I fought texting her telling her she is breaking my heart, I know she knows she is, its obvious. So I wrote her a letter, it detailed why I think that I made the mistakes I made, why I think she had all the affairs, and essentially wishes her well on her journey. I didn't sent it to her and I wont, I folded it up, put it in my wallet and Ill read it when I think of contacting her. I have not, she has not contacted me since last night. I went to work today and have gone not gone outside to cry or mope 1 time. As hard as I have failed its not been a very long time since I found all this out and im trying my best. Every day is both harder and easier. Time will pass and this will become normal, I cannot wait for that to happen but as you guys say "patience" and she needs me to let her go. I gotta admit, if I loved her and I really do I need to let her go and stop trying to make her love me. That's what i've learned.
Not being with my kids every day has never happened to me before. There is no more denial. This is my life now.
I deleted my social media apps last night as well. I know me and ill go and look. Bad idea.
The DB and DR books are coming tomorrow and Friday. I will probably spend a lot of time reading them in my new apartment. I have read how to be a 3% man 7 times. The rational male im working on and also ive read no more mr nice guy. I will not go out looking for a new woman, Ill spend my time there learning from this and just letting my wife live her life during this divorce. It breaks my heart to see you give up LH, I know its because thus far ive been a mess. My excuse is that OM BD was a week ago so im still torn up. But its an excuse and I know it. This is my life now, no matter what I google, read or think this is reality. And I will be ok eventually I wont leave these boards when she doesn't come back Ill keep posting, the only reason I haven't done a LOT worse is because of you guys. So thank you for taking the time to stay with my sitch. It will be a long time before any changes happen one way or the other I accept it. I don't have to chose to DB from today forward. I need to so I will, what im doing is not working. Time to stop going down cheeseless tunnels. Its just hurting me more and disappointing all of you that stuck by me.
I do want to save my marriage but I have to do it quietly and with self respect from now on. and LH I agree I wouldn't want to be married to me in the state im in right now either, Im a disaster and until I fix that there is zero chance. I wont be hugging her again that I can assure you. I feel pretty damn pathetic I did. Lesson learned.
The way to save your marriage is to stop trying to save your marriage. The fact that DBing is counter-intuitive is all over this forum but LBSs still do not grasp it. You are too impulsive, something that working through with an IC would pay huge dividends for you Steve_. There are a couple of LBSs (you are one of them) that struggle more than most, and the common theme in both cases is you both refuse to even consider IC.
Steve_ you are going to be D'd. Why? Because you are too impulsive to effectively DB.
Steve,
Have you ever considered that your W has some sort of personality disorder (NPD)? It is not normal to be a habitual serial cheater, you realize that right? The best predicator of future behavior is past behavior.
If she does, in fact, have a personality disorder, this is exactly the behavior you can expect from her for the rest of her life. And no matter how good you DB, she's still broken and will relive these patterns in her life over and over again. Do you want to continue to sign up for that?
I'm all about doing everything you can to save your marriage. HOWEVER, if this has been an issue (Did I read 5 affairs?), then you never had a marriage to begin with.
My ex and I did this dance several times as well. I was able to "DB" her 4 times and get her back. What I didn't realize was that all I was doing was prolonging the inevitable. No matter how hard I tried, how much IC I went to, how many books I read, how many times I prayed to God, she simply was not going to magically turn into a partner that would do what it took to make our relationship work (even though she publicly proclaimed that she was here to stay this time).
I haven't seen or spoken to her in over a year (I never snooped her social media either). I'm now at a point that I can look back objectively and see that we should have never been in a relationship to begin with. I also realize there are much better women out there that would love a dedicated partner.
My advice.... RUN from this woman and never look back. If she comes back and you accept her back, you will regret your decision in the very near future.
Yeah that is a very good possibility, NPD is something that gets tossed around a lot on the internet and being a psych nurse I can tell you that in 5 years ive seen DX of bipolar, schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, mood disorders such as depression, ocd etc but not once a DX of NPD. There is something that seems more possible which is called borderline personality disorder.
From Mayo Clinic:
Borderline personality disorder affects how you feel about yourself, how you relate to others and how you behave.
Signs and symptoms may include:
An intense fear of abandonment, even going to extreme measures to avoid real or imagined separation or rejection
A pattern of unstable intense relationships, such as idealizing someone one moment and then suddenly believing the person doesn't care enough or is cruel
Rapid changes in self-identity and self-image that include shifting goals and values, and seeing yourself as bad or as if you don't exist at all
Periods of stress-related paranoia and loss of contact with reality, lasting from a few minutes to a few hours
Impulsive and risky behavior, such as gambling, reckless driving, unsafe sex, spending sprees, binge eating or drug abuse, or sabotaging success by suddenly quitting a good job or ending a positive relationship
Suicidal threats or behavior or self-injury, often in response to fear of separation or rejection
Wide mood swings lasting from a few hours to a few days, which can include intense happiness, irritability, shame or anxiety
Ongoing feelings of emptiness
Inappropriate, intense anger, such as frequently losing your temper, being sarcastic or bitter, or having physical fights
Like I said and I know its hard for yall to believe because ive been so attached to her but after last night and sleeping alone without my kids I realized this is over I cant fix her only myself. So if she does have some mental illness there really is nothing I can do. I didn't even tell her I realized its over. My words don't mean jack. only actions.
And steve82 I am going to get IC, through the VA. I made the arrangement for the referral. Ive also begun meds for depression. I decided to stop expecting her to rescue me after last night and I know I gotta go this alone.
We all have some point or some action that makes us give up hope, for me loading my kids in her car to stay at her and her boyfriends place was it.
I contacted her today but only said this
"please drop the storage key to your moms when you can so I can move my stuff on Friday, thanks"
She replied immidately after with "no problem, I hope your ok"
pfft not even gonna bite that one. she doesn't give a damn If im okay... not anymore. I wont be responding to that or to her at all. Now is the time for me to make my run for it, before I say or do anything to damage things more. Im taking it and getting out of this spinning.
She's a piece of work. Steve_, I predict that one day in the future you will look back and be relieved that she is out of your life.
She's a piece of work. Steve_, I predict that one day in the future you will look back and be relieved that she is out of your life.
YEP!
When she said "I hope your okay" I wanted to say this.. I did not, but I wanted to put it here to get it down.
No, im not okay, im pretty far from it. You let me for someone I thought was my friend after 11 years and 5 affairs well now 6 I never once gave up on you, in 2 months you quit our marriage and broke up our family for a married man who cheated on his wife with you and suddenly understands you in 2 months. During this time I have done everything I can for you, kept your secrets, made your life easy, and still you lied to me and took the kids to your apartment with your boyfriend. I think I realized in the parking lot last night this is over. You never fight for me and you even defended him when he disrespected me. Im done fighting for you now, this is on you, please stop talking to me unless its about the children or an emergency."
I didn't say it, it wont help even if I did. Just wanted to get it out.
She said later in a text "why wont Jr. Listen to me?" didn't answer that either but maybe its because for the last 2 months shes been gone 75% of the time. With her new boyfriend He is not happy with her and the choices she making.
The biggest pitfall I made was treating my wayward wife as a walk away wife for the first 2 months of this thing. Now that I realize OM was there all along I could have used a tougher love approach. I plan on doing that from now on. I will keep all non-essential responses off. And essential responses short as possible. A lot f the things I did to treat her like a WAW were definitely hurting me. At least I did find out now and not 2 months from now on Christmas when she spent it with OM and his family as they planned. Ive been reading Sandi's posts regarding the wayward wife and her response to my thread. I would typically not ignore her as it upsets her but at this point as long as OM is there, why should she even get to talk to me?
Now you are starting to get it. Stay consistent with no contact, with communication only regarding the kids.
I went to a friends house after work to hang out with him and his girlfriend and stuff, just not be alone at home. It was nice to be with people that care about me. I had a good time just hanging out in the garage talking about his car, work and the crazy day we had with combative patients, a bit about my sitch just yeah. While I was there she called me 4 times in 5 minutes she said CALL ME!! URGENT!!! I waited about 10 minutes after the 4th call and said “is it about the kids?” She didn’t respond or call again.
Odd. I wonder if this was like what Sandi was talking about a “test”. I left it at that she never replied. At first I felt bad I felt that need to be there as a husband then i realized oh yeah, she has a boyfriend. If it’s not about the kids not my problem. If it was about the kids she would have just texted me back. I wonder why she does this..
OMG you did great. Perfect response. You’re really starting to make big progress.
Don’t go backwards. Don’t expect because you’re being tough now she will soften. She won’t, she’ll keep temp checking you but she’s still a cheating ***** who doesn’t deserve you.
Do not soften. Do not open the door a crack. It’s you, your kids, and radio silence.
The biggest pitfall I made was treating my wayward wife as a walk away wife for the first 2 months of this thing.
No Steve - A pitfall was taking her back too easy first time.. That being said, if you didnt know about this site and working on themselves, i can totally relate..
The biggest Pitfall was taking her back after a second affair - regardless of knowing about this site - come on ! - sef respect.
then 3, 4 5 and now 6 - Like seriously..
Dont just walk away - You RUN - RUN - RUN and keep Running..
If she has come back 5 times before, its good odds she will be back again.. Do you really want that.
You havent become sloppy seconds, you are sloppy 6 or 7ths ! - and these are the affairs you know about !
You menition Personality discorders - Borderline or NPD - They share similar traits. Neither are curable without years of thearpy - its an underlying personality issue - There is no "quick" fix for either.. People with NPD or BPD will suck you dry ! - and the message is the same - if you are with somebody with NPD / BPD, you RUN - RUN - RUN..
and as you have children, you become their rock - be there for them and be the best parent you can.
Perfect response to her text Steve. Stay consistent.
That's the Steve_ we've been looking for. Stay the course, dude. Consistency is key now. You have a track record of backsliding and talking too much. Don't do it. Mouth shut and move forward. One day at a time. It gets better. Just keep DB'ing...
Steve_, congratulations on not responding. Remember that even if part of you still wants to reconcile, it's important for her to miss you. If you're there to soothe her and soak up her anger on-demand, she's not missing you, besides increasing her chances of success with her BF by giving her an outlet for those feelings. Stay strong today! Resist the urge to talk to her to pacify or emote at her and sit with your feelings.
Yeah it’s definately been hard we been in contact about everything for 11 years. Now it’s radio silence from me. I’ll bet it’s hard for her too in a way. She wasn’t ready for me to figure it out and propel the situation to this she wanted everything to be a nice easy transition and it’s been everything but that. Now I’m not mad, not speaking answering calls not anything just quiet. Last night she called all those times and said urgent etc because her mom said I didn’t come home last night. Once I responded “is it about the kids” she didn’t say a word. She was checking on me it seems. I think she’s gonna eventually at some point ask why I’m ignoring her and etc. I just plan on saying “as long as he is in your life I’m out” and leave it at that. We have nothing to talk about anymore. I feel highly disrespected, played, etc. tonight I’ll be reading the DB book tomorrow getting my apartment. And my DR book. They will be my best fiends. Other than you guys. Sorry it took me 2 months and OM BD last week to wake up but handing over my kids just did it for me.
I think she’s gonna eventually at some point ask why I’m ignoring her and etc. I just plan on saying “as long as he is in your life I’m out” and leave it at that.
No. That is a question that doesn't concern your kids and it's not an emergency. You don't reply to that. That's bait. If, and only if, she says this at a child drop off (because you aren't going to answer your phone, or respond to texts that aren't about the kids, so this is the only scenario it should happen), your response should be "I'm just focusing on me and the kids now, Thanks." Then you keep your mouth shut and get out of there before you say something you regret. Again, this isn't about her or the OM. This is about Steve. Your response in the quote is all about her and OM. We don't care about them. We care about Steve...
Yeah that's a much better answer, thanks I wasn't sure how to answer that when the inevitable question arises.
11 pager New thread going up.
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Steve's LRT phase 1