https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2905008&page=11Original thread.
Well folks another update it seems. The wife called me up today after I had ripped her a new one accusing her of leaving me and moving in with another dude that she is with (yesterday) etc.. she asked about the kids and I felt a little bad for going off via text. I mean she did lie a lot but yeah still that’s not me really she was pretty surprised by it. I told her “sorry it was harsh, but you told me a lot of lies so yeah” she said “I understand I wish you would have just talked to me about it. I was gone so long over there setting up the kids room well our son’s and daughter would be with me. She said the kids I can take over any time and honestly you could come it will all be out there eventually. I just didn’t tell you because I didn’t want you to freak out on me. I offered to roommate with you and the kids because I’m not sure about things 100% and I didn’t want to bring the kids here where I have a male room mate and confuse them.” She said “just ask me what’s going on don’t text me some crazy stuff and explode, I’m not with anyone, what kind of serious boyfriend would let you spend 4 days with your ex and 3 days with him? Living in his place?” I do see there is kinda a point there. If she was serious about the dude she could have just moved there with the kids and told me FU that is her usual style. “I told her well you were not honest with me and I’ve got upset what twice in the last two months? Both this week because of the lying and disappearing, she said “I understand” “just talk to me next time” I told her “I would have but you get pissed when I ask questions, and I’ve been trying to leave you alone. I don’t talk to you much anymore not becuse I’m mad but because I’m trying to give you the space and the divorce you wanted.”
It’s pretty clear from these back and forth engagements that she isn’t being totally truthful but most WAW’s aren’t. I think she does plan on cake eating as much as she can. I do think she is telling the truth about the room mate she’s not the type to like to be controlled but I know if I keep staying weak and worrying about her and talking to her I will never get anywhere. I’m kind of losing hope that I make too many mistakes to have this saveable but at the same time she knows how much she sacrificed for this, admitted it was selfish and even said “sorry I have to know I have to do this” so maybe the two times I messed up big will go away with time. I know I can’t afford to backslide and I know time is on my side. If I do not backslide and stay strong but fair I think there is a good shot of recon some day. But like LH said I don’t think that will be soon. Probably several months of not a year or more. I hope i get this loan so I can move out and GAL. I am still considering if I should let her stay with me as room mates. It’s a lot easier to showcase your hard earned changes when they are around. It would be hard but maybe my best shot to show I’m happy and detached when I get there hopefully soon. I keep kicking myself in the butt for mistakes but I haven’t made that many considering the situation and honestly I know I have a long road to go. I have to find a way to detach. Right now I can’t even fold her clothes that were left with mine without being torn up. I for sure have been in denial. Knowing what I need to do and doing it are really hard when you are attached to someone with kids for 11 years.
I have to absolutely stay with this. If I make any more mistakes it just sets me back. I’m gonna do my best to detach detach detach and just be as silent as possible. Let her come to me, when she contacts just get back later and keep it simple short and business. I know I’ve said it but I had some unfinished business with her splitting and not even telling me anything. At least she told me now, even if it was all lies that’s her issue and it’s water under the bridge now.
Ok so she told you all these lies. What changes? I do not think it would be a good idea for you to move in with her. What are your ages? Kids ages? How long married?
I tried to make a sig idk why it didn’t work
T:11
M:10
K: D5, S7
BD 9/3
She filed 9/24
She moved out (kinda) 10-15
I don’t know man, she came home last night told me she needed to shower, so some things I just said ok. She said “I’ll let you get some sleep I gotta sleep too” I said “okay” that was it. She used to talk to me more, come and sit with me, ask how I’m doing etc. I think me being more silent now and being mad she lied the other day has changed some things. Part of me just wants to tell her how much I don’t want to D, how much I miss her and have constant regrets for what I did. It takes everything I got to not do that. If I do she will just say something like “Just give me some time” she convinced herself to do this, file D, lie lie lie and move out. I don’t think anything I can say now will change that. It’s just hard not to tell her how much this all destroyed me. Our marriage slipped away for simple things. It’s just crazy. At least I’m at work today. The more time away from her I spend the more things become real. The depression is high. I know things will eventually be okay but right now it doesn’t seem like it. I guess the best thing I can do is just say nothing anymore. That’s what all the advice says out there.
I don’t know man, she came home last night told me she needed to shower, so some things I just said ok. She said “I’ll let you get some sleep I gotta sleep too” I said “okay” that was it. She used to talk to me more, come and sit with me, ask how I’m doing etc. I think me being more silent now and being mad she lied the other day has changed some things. Part of me just wants to tell her how much I don’t want to D, how much I miss her and have constant regrets for what I did. It takes everything I got to not do that. If I do she will just say something like “Just give me some time” she convinced herself to do this, file D, lie lie lie and move out. I don’t think anything I can say now will change that. It’s just hard not to tell her how much this all destroyed me. Our marriage slipped away for simple things. It’s just crazy. At least I’m at work today. The more time away from her I spend the more things become real. The depression is high. I know things will eventually be okay but right now it doesn’t seem like it. I guess the best thing I can do is just say nothing anymore. That’s what all the advice says out there.
You will never be successful until you get your NGS under control. Are you in IC?
Steve,
I think I asked you before but are you in Independent counseling? I think it would do you really good right now.
So if you tell her this destroyed you how do you think that would make her feel? Pressure? Guilt? Attracted to you?
When in doubt say nothing Steve.
I guess the best thing I can do is just say nothing anymore. That’s what all the advice says out there.
Maybe, as long as you're at the phase where when you do try to interact with her, you give speeches, argue, guilt her, or make accusations. You're beginning to realize it's much easier to hurt your situation with words than it is to help it. As soon as you can--it may take time--work up to polite business-like communication, and try out validation (acknowledging her FEELINGs not her beliefs).
I am not in IC at the moment, I do have the luck to work with several licensed MFC's at work and I talk to them. Its really hard to take thier advice. I actually have done super good about validating and not guilting her at all this whole time. I dont tell her how destroyed I am. She told me she always came back to me out of guilt, seeing me messed up. I know if i guilted her a lot told her all how messed up I am she maybe..mayybe would change her mind but It would be short lived, a year maybe less. (she said this herself even). She feels like she really needs to see what else is out there because our M was boring, etc.. I validated for 2 months, did everything I could to make things easy on her, it brought us closer together until she moved out and has been gone. When I did go off on her for lying and dissapearing she said it hurt her and that wasnt like me so I apologized. She has communicated with me since then about the kids and sent a funny meme, i waited awhile and responded "good one" she asks me "hows it going" I said good, I took the kids to the park and got them ice cream, did some laundry. I dont talk about feelings, part of me wants her to know how messed up this is but I have really tried hard not to guilt her. I know it wouldnt be a real fix. I know she has to do this because she said she has to. And the only way for her to miss me and go through the next phase is to detach and act as if, its just hard when her big complaint was that I took her for granted. I try to be there but not "there" and dont go into feelings I hope thats the best route.
Get into IC. You clearly do but have the tools necessary to properly desk with all of this, go get help to get them.
I did get the loan approved So hopefully I can move out in a couple weeks. I think Ill have to tell her that I dont feel that living with her 4 days a week when we are getting a D is a good idea. It will just let her cake eat and give me zero time to myself (the kids will be there 24/7, her coming and going as she pleases) I dont think that is a very good idea. A small part of me still believes she is lying about the room mate situation and she dont want the kids around so she can be single and free. I think that I cant do that. She can be single and free 3 days a week, and work also, just like im doing. This isnt fair. I went from having lots of money to getting by with like 900-1000 a month left over living alone and thats to do everything I need to do after all the bills and rent are paid. its gonna be really tight and I had almost finished school for my RN that would have almost doubled my pay, now thats not gonna happen for a long time. This whole make a zillion plans to move together then suddenly cancel them cause "im not happy" thats BS. This is unfair. I think im done playing her games, clearly she doesnt seem to give an F how im gonna live cause she plans to be in my life as much as she wants atm. I think if I allow that it will be the worst thing I could do and she for sure will move on to somone else slowly and softly with no need to recon since im always around as a friend. I cant do that. that would for sure kill any chance to save this M its gotta be romance or co-parents no buddies or pals. its hard but I think its neccesary.
I think Ill have to tell her that I dont feel that living with her 4 days a week when we are getting a D is a good idea.
"I have decided not to have you live here 4 days a week."
Short, simple, to the point. Do not let your NGS guide you with a big long winded explanation. Short. Sweet. To the point. And definitive.
Yes, Steve_, try to keep your side to a dozen words or less. Imagine you shopped at the Verizon store and decided to buy from TMobile. "Thank you for checking in. I've decided to go in another direction."
I dont feel that living with her 4 days a week when we are getting a D is a good idea. It will just let her cake eat and give me zero time to myself (the kids will be there 24/7, her coming and going as she pleases) I dont think that is a very good idea. A small part of me still believes she is lying about the room mate situation and she dont want the kids around so she can be single and free. I think that I cant do that. She can be single and free 3 days a week, and work also, just like im doing. This isnt fair.
Further negative interactions won't help your situation.
Thats actually hilarious I have T mobile lol. Im gonna have to get on with my life, I think that is exactly what shes most afraid of too. So thats exactly what Im gonna do. I have been an NGS my whole life. I think i will focus on being short and to the point from now on like you guys said, that is the biggest 180 I can actually do.
I texted her "I got the loan, ill be looking for an apt when I get back from AZ" she just said "ok"
that was all. nothing more. its hard but I also feel its the right thing to do. Ill bet her head is spinning like "oh sh*#" I garuntee she didnt expect me to jump on getting out and I garuntee she expected me to hang around her mom's house forever lol.
Thats actually hilarious I have T mobile lol. Im gonna have to get on with my life, I think that is exactly what shes most afraid of too. So thats exactly what Im gonna do. I have been an NGS my whole life. I think i will focus on being short and to the point from now on like you guys said, that is the biggest 180 I can actually do.
I texted her "I got the loan, ill be looking for an apt when I get back from AZ" she just said "ok"
that was all. nothing more. its hard but I also feel its the right thing to do. Ill bet her head is spinning like "oh sh*#" I garuntee she didnt expect me to jump on getting out and I garuntee she expected me to hang around her mom's house forever lol.
first step of many in commanding respect! Remember, your job is not to get her to like you. THat is NGS. That is how you get friend-zoned. Your job is to gain her respect. Living at her mom's house wouldn't accomplish that.
Also, I see you making excuses and blaming her for not finishing your RN. All I can say is that where there is a will, there is a way. If you don't complete you RN, then that is on you....no one else.
What did you want/expect her to say?
Thats actually hilarious I have T mobile lol. Im gonna have to get on with my life, I think that is exactly what shes most afraid of too. So thats exactly what Im gonna do. I have been an NGS my whole life. I think i will focus on being short and to the point from now on like you guys said, that is the biggest 180 I can actually do.
I texted her "I got the loan, ill be looking for an apt when I get back from AZ" she just said "ok"
that was all. nothing more. its hard but I also feel its the right thing to do. Ill bet her head is spinning like "oh sh*#" I garuntee she didnt expect me to jump on getting out and I garuntee she expected me to hang around her mom's house forever lol.
Agree whole heartedly with LH's question.
Why text her? (LBS's are always told action not words) Get the loan, get an apartment, move out. Just do it, talking about doing it just doesn't cut it.
I've been following your sitch, you have come on leaps and bounds. You have all the answers, get them in motion.
Get the loan
Get the apartment and make it yours
Finish school - double your pay.
Stop thinking about doing all these things to get a response from her. These are for you.
Yeah I didn't have to tell her but we do have kids that will be affected. Plus I will be at work all day tomorrow and gone for the next 3 days. She had asked me to let her know in advance when I plan to move the kids out, I didn't want to be sneaky about things like she did. I just said I got the loan and im moving out. I said nothing else. neither did she but "ok" I expect the question from her about her being my room mate. I will just say "I don't think that is a good idea." and if she asks why I will say "because we are getting a divorce, unless that changes I think its best to respect that"
Steve,
You’re to wishy washy and passive aggressive.
Here is what you say “ that doesn’t work for me”. If she asks why you should ignore or if you have to say something say “because it doesn’t”.
I was also about to suggest a revision.
"I don't think that is a good idea." - Can you see why this is wishy-washy? You "think" it's not a "good" idea. You're expressing uncertainty, and evaluating the idea's goodness, inviting dialogue.
"That doesn't work for me."
Ah yeah I get it. The NGS is so real. she asked me today why I haven't been talking to her, I backslid. I said "Its not because im mad, actually I did not like the way things have gone down but Im over it. If im mad im mad at myself for not seeing things this way until this divorce, you really meant the world to me, I know its too little to late, but I don't talk to you because I understand you need this and its ok it is what it is"
She replied with "stop being so nice, I cant hate you when your nice and two crying faces"
I told her I was always nice, that why you loved me, im just trying to work on some of the bad things I did, if you gotta make yourself hate me, maybe you should think about that? anyways back to work... catch you later.
She sent me a couple more texts but I didn't respond. I know I messed up. At least the interaction was positive. no more back sliding! ugh at least we are neutral grounds now and there is no more tension. dammit I hate when I do that!
Yikes! You’re digging yourself a hole you will never get out of my friend.
Yeah its weird because she acts so positive when I am nice. it feels like its working but I know its not. its so crazy. I guess at least we are not having anger/tension. Sure she got a nice ego boost there. But whatever all I can do now is stick back to the silence again and just business. Dammit.
Going to say it one more time: YOU CANNOT NICE HER BACK
Yeah. You are right being nice gets no respect. Its like "oh I left you, lied a bunch and all you want to do is kiss my A? wow you are pathetic.." That's how I think about it when im so nice. I really gotta stop. At least I got a good position to go forward. I just have to make sure I go forward from now on and not backward. At least the last thing I said that has any emotion in it was not a negative thing. That angry message before put a lot of tension on stuff I could tell since she distanced herself. So now that its patched up and shes not pissed off I can get to work, I think that moving out will really help a lot. Im glad you guys inspired me to take some action and get that loan and get out. Thanks I will continue to post and keep you updated. Its really helpful if I didn't have yall here I would have done a lot worse.
So I had to mention it, I just talked to a friend of mine a nurse practioner with 30 years as a therapist and a psychologist (PHD) I told him the situation and he was like, "why would you even want her back? she will just do it again, if you do the same thing she will also do the same thing, that's why I don't do therapy anymore, you spend years on someone and only around 10% of people change" I thought about that hard, even MWD says "10% of divorced couples remarry" hmm. I wonder if those are the same 10% that actually make changes. the Dr. said also "If she always left you and came back, there is a dang good chance she will do it again, make sure she has changed and put up those boundaries for yourself, don't let her move in with you. You did a good thing clearing the air today but stop being nice and show you are happy with yourself from now on, and actually mean it. I think you will like being single eventually, I did" he said that "people that change do it in a reasonable time frame and mean it, they don't like the consequences if they don't, that's why they change, if you haven't yet do you like living this way? no? then change and mean it"
Sounds a lot like what yall say
Oh! Your friend was writing that for your situation, not mine. Wise words for all.
Did good today she came home after taking the kids out to the pumpkin patch, called before asking if I want McDonald’s i said no thanks. (Trying to keep the depression weight loss off went down like 35 pounds in 3 weeks) I’m looking better than i have in years and she’s said that many times so yeah no McDonald’s lol.
I kissed the kids and gave them some affection she looked up and said “aw I feel left out” I gave her a slight smile and focused on them. She asked if i wanted to sit down i didn’t answer I just continued standing I don’t want to have a conversation with her. She asked how my work went I her told her “good, lots of bandaging today. “ Went about my business in my room and then said I’m gonna go take a walk and she just shrugged. Like annoyed I don’t want to sit there and stare at her in don’t get it lol. Anyways let’s see if she actually stays home tonight on “her day” I bet she will want to leave but let’s see..
She comes in my room in bra and underwear later and asks me if I work on the days I’ve already told her I don’t that I’ll going back to AZ to finish painting. Man I wanted to touch her she stood right there next to me and even put her leg up touching me but I resisted the urge to touch her. I just kept it business and said “good nite”
Boy she lives messing with you.
Yeah I don’t know why she does that. I have no choice but to think she’s testing me to see if I’m still “on the hook” I am starting to feel in my gut that she’s been telling nothing but lies and boy is she gonna get bad when I don’t let her move in with me and her private life gets ruined. I have some hard times ahead for sure.
Lol. Steve she knows you are on the hook. You don't hide it well. You are in for a rough ride because she loves playing with your emotions.
Steve, not going to lie. She's better at this than you are. Until you get into IC, back off, and quit interacting with her so much, you'll continue to struggle
She sounds like a psychopath.
I know this is easy when my heart isn’t on the line, but I’d be running the other way - as fast as possible.
She has major issues treating you the way she has and then being provoctive like that. Of course she’s checking if you’re still on the hook. Keep pulling away. The logical part of your brain knows she is ****ing with you, but your heart is likely to cave again and again. And as soon as she sees you get a glimmer of hope, she will get what she wants and then crush you again. And every time that cycle happens, future reconciliation becomes less likely.
Do the 180. Give her nothing. And not as a technique to get her back! Give her nothing simply because YOU DESERVE way better than someone who treats you like that.
Time to start listening to your head and ignoring your heart. She can only keep hurting you for as long as you let her.
Yep not a single word from me since last night, the more I think about it the more it enrages me how just messed up, disrespectful, disgusting and morally corrupt she has been to me, our kids and her family. I honestly sometimes pretend that she is dead, that helps me when I miss her. I definately have a bad attachment issue. I got no reason to be with this type of messed up person other than the ones I create for myself. Im not in love with her, im in love with what she could have been and obviously never was.
Hi Steve_, I hear ya. It's easier to respect the WASs who complain about their partners' behaviors, then leave, then find someone else--even if they weren't as clear that the relationship was falling apart as the LBS wishes they were. A WWS with multiple affairs is a jagged little pill to swallow.
She texted me today a letter from AT&T saying someone tried to use her username and password to get into her account and asked if it was me. I just said
"someone tried to hack you, if I cared what your doing I wouldnt have let you take me off the account with the "i gotta upgrade my watch" excuse, you never upgraded your watch, im not dumb, Ive been as cool as I can be with all this, I just want you to be happy, I gotta go back to work now, see ya"
She wanted a fight, I didnt give her one.
Hi Steve_,
((Wait 1-2hrs)) "No." next time. Try to stop these wordy, negative interactions.
Hi Steve_,
((Wait 1-2hrs)) "No." next time. Try to stop these wordy, negative interactions.
This.
"someone tried to hack you, if I cared what your doing I wouldnt have let you take me off the account with the "i gotta upgrade my watch" excuse, you never upgraded your watch, im not dumb, Ive been as cool as I can be with all this, I just want you to be happy, I gotta go back to work now, see ya"
Do you see what you are doing here? You’re trying to SHOW her that you don’t care so she gets interested and wants you back. You’re still trying to manipulate her.
YOU CAN NOT REASON WITH A PSYCHOPATH. It took me so long to learn that and I caused myself so much pain over and over as a result.
Trying to reason with her is like trying to talk a screaming baby. It’s like trying to convince a flat earther the world is round. ALL YOU DO IS CREATE PAIN FOR YOURSELF.
You just can’t reason with someone who isn’t being reasonable. They say the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result....
You seem like a nice person. You deserve so much better than the person she currently is.
The correct response was “No”.
Yep not a single word from me since last night, the more I think about it the more it enrages me how just messed up, disrespectful, disgusting and morally corrupt she has been to me, our kids and her family. I honestly sometimes pretend that she is dead, that helps me when I miss her. I definately have a bad attachment issue. I got no reason to be with this type of messed up person other than the ones I create for myself. Im not in love with her, im in love with what she could have been and obviously never was.
The anger isn't necessarily a bad thing. Use it as fuel to detach. When I finally got fed up with the BS, is when I finally started to truly detach. F em and feed em fish heads was my motto. She is of no concern to you anymore...
Well a new update. Things got a bit weird as usual.
She came in my room and asked me how I’m doing. I gotta be honest I just said F it, I’m done pretending I don’t even care anymore. I told her “look, I get what your doing is what you gotta do, it’s fine”. I tried to get an apartment that day and she went out for “30” minutes. Turns out that 30 minutes was 2 hours and someone else put a deposit so now I’m stuck another 2 months. Nothing else I can afford is available. I was not thrilled she did that, but I didn’t get mad I just got disappointed. She said “why are you in such a hurry to leave, if you leave we get disconnected and it’s just business, we are talking, we are like understanding each other now, why do you need to leave?” I told her “I need my space it’s been me and the kids 24/7, I get no time to myself” she said “I understand” then she essentially went on to tell me why she cannot take me back “right now” and why she hasn’t budged on her choice. I validated, validated, validated. I told her “I’ll be here until janurary first, if you don’t want me to leave you need to decide what you really want to do by then, if you don’t want to work this out I’m gonna move out, I can’t stay here forever waiting, is that enough time for you to understand what you want?” She said “yes” I then said “look, I’m not gonna plan on you coming back, I made arrangements to move out the first, so unless you change your mind that is the plan. I am not mad, I am really disappointed how things went down but it’s alright it is what it is and I don’t want to worry about it” she said “okay, thank you for the time to think, I just want to see if I can be alone, I’ll watch the kids and my place on your days and sleep here, I just don’t want any what if’s If I come back to you because to be honest I’ll just do this again later, I don’t want to do that so I need to see if I can be alone” she went on to say “if you find someone that loves you and makes you happy punish me, I did this, it’s my fault, I won’t be mad I’ll like her and be nice” I just shook my head. This is clearly all a game to her. She calls me later the next morning 3x I answered the 3rd since she called in a row and I know it would just piss her off. Her mom has been silent treatmenting her, everyone has been cutting her off, she tried to lash out at me and cuss on the phone I said “if you gonna talk to me this way I’m gonna hang up” she said “bye” and I just hung up. I don’t know what this game is all about. But I know I will stand for my marriage at least another 2 months before I can detach completely I know myself . She asked me not to push her to do what I want. So I sort of gave her permission to figure that out. Was it stupid yeah it was, but she already filed D and it’s not like I got anything to lose. Me being silent and playing hardball with her is actually pushing her father away. She thinks I don’t care at all. I told her that isn’t true and that I regret mistakes I made but ultimately this is not my choice it’s hers. The best I can do is give her some time to think. She really appreciated that. Was it weak? Sure, but Me trying to move out shook her and at least she knows I am not gonna fiddle around Forever I got the money and was trying to get out. I think it became real to her now. She just might lose me and she is scared trying to buy some time. It’s fine, I don’t plan on her coming back for a long time, at least I will go out the dude that validated her and did the right thing in the end. Not as some angry revenge person. I left to paint the house out of state she tried to strike up a convo, I told her “ I’m painting, the kids are with my mom, I’ll let you know when I’m done and we are headed back “ she just said “ok”.
I’m sure I did a lot of things wrong here. But I sort of followed my heart. And just went with the flow. If she doesn’t come back I’ve not really lost anything because I haven’t had her in a long time. She has been seeing me detaching and it’s scaring her. I plan on doing it as much as I can and not giving her any more reasurrances. I’ve given her the last shot she has. This won’t be fixed anytime soon if at all and I know that. But she doesn’t know I know that. I fully expect it taking her to succeed or fail with another man to determine this, if that’s not already going on. I was a good man and I’m confident in time she will see that. If she doesn’t it’s on her and eventually I’ll get where I don’t care anymore, every day gets both harder and easier. She even said she isn’t happy with this. I take what she says as like 0.5% true. And just do what I have to do and try to do what I feel is right.
So after all that... and I told her I’ll tell her when I’m done she face times me like 3 hours later. She already did that to the kids and even the kids told her I’m alone painting. She had zero reason to call me. I just turned my phone off. It’s like dude, what don’t you get I told you to do your thing. I’m fine with it, stop acting like I’m still your husband and you can call me and expect me to answer whenever you want. You don’t get to do that.
I know she will have something to say, I don’t want to make up a lie like “oh my phone died” I want to be like “honey I have done everything the best I can. But it’s not fair you expect to call me and talk to me whenever you want and also leave me. I don’t like that, I’m trying to let you go not be your buddy. I don’t want to be friends I want to be your husband”
Obviously I won’t say that but she like sticks to her guns on leaving me “for now” how can I tell her why I don’t like talking to her without it seeming like being the jerk that didn’t give her attention and affection. What I prob would say as short as I can would be “you fired me, I want to be there for you anytime but it’s not fair that you let me go and still expect me to be there” that would be wrong and I want to know just what to say to not sound like a mean ass but also not like a wet noodle. I been standing up for myself and I need to make boundaries to her. But In a way that’s gentle, I’m so sick of backtracking, it’s not helping but being hard as woodpecker lips just fuels her reasons, I need to be firm but also gentle here. That’s the way forward I know her better than anyone probably even herself.
Hey Steve
Im not sure on the timeline for you, but i can see its still fairly early days for you and W.
Just from reading your updates, there are too many talks with her. You have said your bit so many times now.
You need to lovingly detach, that doesn't mean being unkind or cruel or proving the point. You love her right? Well love isnt selfish, and if the person you love doesnt want to be with you, the most loving thing to do is ti let them go. I think your actions will speak louder than words going forward.
You call her back when you have the time...if she leaves you a voicemail and asks you to call. Otherwise you leave it. Just like you would if your neighbour called you...or an acquaintance. Don’t volunteer an explanation. If she asks why you didn’t pick up, just say you were busy. Now take the focus off of her. Stop trying to strategize. And stop reminding her that she fired you and it’s not fair. She knows that already and it just makes you seem weak and unattractive. It is really hard in the beginning but you really do have to force yourself to GAL and stop ruminating on the situation. The sooner you do, the sooner you will wake up one day and realize you are okay...with our without your W. That’s the goal. Hang in there Steve. It will get easier. (((HUGS)))
BTW...your thread title...holding on...it appears that is what you are trying to do and it is the exact opposite of what you should be doing. The more you try to hold on to her, the more she is going to want to pull away. Let her go if you want to have any chance of getting her back.
Thank you. I know it’s what i have to do. I just really loved her, I’ve sacrificed so much for her. She was really difficult to love and i stood by her. I know I have to let go and everything you guys say and I read is correct. It’s all fear, I’m afraid letting go will lose her. But I have to accept I’ve already lost her and the only shot i have of getting her back is to let go. I never let go and always got her back, and that’s why she always left. I will just do my very best to detach in the most loving and respective way with as few words as possible from now on. I wear my heart on my sleeve and while that’s why she loved me and many women do, it’s a weakness I pay for time and time again. I need to get hard like I was in the army I jumped out of airplanes, I was a door kicker, I’ve seen and done some
Real hard stuff and this 5’2 woman destroyed me when none of that did. I’m such a strong man a leader, a true alpha besides her, then I treat her like a celebrity and I always end up treated like a fan. it’s like being Superman and she’s kryptonite. You guys keep seeing me fail, and fail and fail. But I’m doing my best and I read and consider every response. It’s hard to just stop loving someone when your an all-in kind of person who just believes in people and puts your love into it. I know in my mind I have to do this, I’m trying to convince my heart to just let go. I should be over it by now but every time she gives me hope keeps me from healing, I think that’s my problem and that’s exactly why she does it. She doesn’t t really want to see me get better she wants to keep me in her back pocket, I have to stop looking at her like my wife and look at her like a stranger because right now that’s what she is.
But I have to accept I’ve already lost her and the only shot i have of getting her back is to let go.
You’re definitely progressing slowly into detachment, but it doesn’t happen overnight. It’s a long journey.
When the statement above reads like this:
But I have to accept I’ve already lost her and what (if anything) happens in the future is out of my control.
Then you’ll know you’ve made it.
You seem like a great guy. But you can’t nice her back, you can’t threaten her back, you can’t timeline her back.
All you can do is go “I’m a great guy, and I’m gonna get on living my life.” We only get so many laps around the sun.
What does Steve like? Hobbies? Sport? Beers with mates? BBQ? Road trips? Motorbikes?
Minimise interactions with her. No more relationship talks. The sole focus of your life now should be accepting you can’t change anything she thinks/does/says, and Steve’s happiness is what he needs to concentrate on!
Steve,
Your posts are very difficult to read. Without respect there is no love. This woman has left you five times. You deserve so much better. Time to let go and start to heal and move on. If she does comeback it will only be temporary. That’s the dynamic you’ve developed in your relationship.
I’m sorry.
Steve, you get to decide whether you DB or go a more traditional route. You give lip service to the first, then you do the latter. Which is give, it's your life. But since of the best advice I got from this board early on was to either DB, or don't. Mixing methods gets your no where, and frustrates both you and your WAS. You seem to be the epitome of that. When you DB you do it poorly (passive-aggresively even using words like cold and hardball), and then most of the time you're not even close to DBing. Sandi looked to point out that when you mess up and stop DBing it sends you back to square one. And I see that with you, one step forward, two steps back.
Learn to listen and validate out you'll continue to have this tit-for-tats and get your berries crushed everytime.
Hi Steve_, just letting you know I've been reading your updates and wish you well. I do think letting your wife know she has until January 1st, 2021 to decide and you'll still take her back is a mistake. She's cheated multiple times. Your odds both for reconciling and reconciling with better terms seem higher with a quick move out/on, where the price for her continued exploration is possibly losing you, and you shift your focus to you and yours a.s.a.p. When there's doubt, now she can say, "I have time", where before panic may set in. Her respect is likely lower because you're okay waiting while she explores others. PS - No part of DB involves being cold, expressing anger, or negative interactions to push them away. It's more about being unavailable because you are healing and working on your own best life for you and your kids without her. That all said, it is your life, and we all have to find our own paths we can live with. I'm cheering for you to succeed.
Yeah I see that now, you can’t half DB and half nice guy it. It confuses both of us to no end. It just makes negative interactions more frequent. I decided to just DB from now on. And keep anything regarding OR out of my mouth. It’s not helping every time we talk she is only getting reassured there is no urgency for her to stop what she is doing. The best thing I can say from now on is nothing. I told her already I was painting and I’d let her know when I come back. She called me 6 times today. I planned on waiting 1-2 hours then responding with “still painting Taking lots of coats to cover the colors” but she called my daughters iPad and had her hunt me down. Every time I try to distance myself she finds a way to talk to me. And of course asks why I didn’t answer. I just said “my phone was not near me I was painting” I said “okay well I gotta get back to it talk to you later” might have spent a whole 30 seconds on it. I can totally see after the tough night last night that being a nice guy makes her feel a lot better but leaves me feeling weak and stupid. I gotta DB in the most neutral way I can, just for my own sanity. I don’t think I’ve set myself back so far I can’t recover but if I don’t start and stick to it now I sure as hell will. At least I know that everyone here and at home is supporting me and rooting for me, I’ve explained myself to her a dozen times I think it’s totally okay for me to just stop talking except for business items and minimal as I can . At this point nobody would blame me. Maybe her but that’s just her guilt. And she needs that I can’t keep making this easy on her. That’s the biggest mistake I made.
So I think being alone and thinking about stuff I came to a conclusion of why this happened. Why it actually happened. I am pretty certain she left me for a guy who was a friend of the family and even became my friend. He has money, but also a wife and kids and wasn’t happy with his wife. I think my wife started hanging out at her sisters taking to him about each other’s M problems and they bonded etc.. all the questions of why and how she could do this and out of know where totally betrayed me, our kids and her family who just got a home for us to live In and we just spent a ton of money on if I replace those questions with him it answers every single one, ever thing she said and did makes sense if this is the case. The reason I realized this is two reasons. Her mom told me she isn’t coming back and told me to sit down with her and ask her to tell me the truth and stop lying. She wouldn’t say what she knows but she obviously knows something I don’t. The second reason is that his wife got suggested as a friend on FB, I’m friends with him he’s friend with my wife and all her latest pictures do not include him. She pretty much has posted a bunch of stuff recently but doesn’t have her husband in them. This would explain another thing she ordered a package and it my kids ripped it open to get the bubble wrap, I didn’t look through it but I did see a couple ash trays and I know he smokes. This was for her new place. With the “room mate” I feel like the reason she can’t take the kids here is because is him, and I know him, and she knows I will explode cause he was my friend. But the reality is that I won’t explode, if that’s what she wants fine she can go for it. I am just wondering something though. I think because of knowing her and the way she is that maybe this was her plan and when his wife started following her around she got upset and maybe backed out of the relationship but not the D cause she has “gone too far” now. I think she is hiding this from everyone and especially me because she isn’t 100% sure this will work out. He has a wife and kids, she does, she burned her whole family and I’ve been really cool about things and validated a lot a total 180 for me. I think the guilt is piling up and that’s why she’s lashing out. I think this will all come to light soon. And I think that she is feeling like a real POS right now.
Anyways I feel like confronting her about this will do the following:
1. if I’m right (pretty sure like 90% that I am) it will just drive her to him and be like “well too far gone now” and she will just get cemented in her choice.
2. Make her lie and lie and go even father underground, hiding more and letting her slip slowly and easily to him.
3. Make her just fight with me, be like totally F you and I don’t even care you got me.. so what?
4. Make her leave him and come back out of guilt, just to do it again later or behind my back.
I am thinking the best thing I can do is just act like i don’t know anything and detach. Let the consequences of this new life set it. Yes I’m sure it’s fun right now but I seen her on days falling apart l, getting sick etc. it won’t last, when people do this set up a R out of lies it never ends well. Especially when the give up everything for each other. The expectations are insane on the other person, to be “worth all they lost”.
I think the best thing I can probably do is just do nothing and act like I know nothing and I’m just moving on if I want to save this, yes I’m a moron but I do want to save this. I love my wife and it’s not cause I need her, it’s because I see I could have done a lot better and because I still want her. I let her down a lot, that’s why it’s hard to just walk away. But I need to softly and sooner than later I think. The more I hold on the easier it is for her to chose this with no fear of loss. It makes there no real consequence besides my kids, his kids (who are friends) and the fam lily hate her. With me detaching I think the truth will hit her eventually. Probably not anytime soon but eventually.
Or should I just get some proof and blow this up? Idk if that would be good.
Steve... This is the HARDEST time but it will get better. I remember it very well...I did not think I could EVER be happy again. I could not imagine being with anyone else or raising my kids without the two-parent family I had had growing up and wanted for them. It was unbelievably painful. I spent hours and hours on this board and many sleepless nights just trying to hang on to my sanity.
In the beginning, everything I did was calculated and I always had it in the back of my mind that I wanted my H back and thought that maybe if I did this DB thing to perfection, that would happen. Thoughts of him (and the lost future I thought I would have) consumed me... he was the first thing I thought about when I woke up in the morning and the last thing I thought about when I went to sleep. I remember what a relief it was when he started to become the second and then third thing I thought about until eventually, I barely thought about him at all. And the focus of my DBing shifted away from him and onto me and on building a new life for myself. I let go of the fear that as holding me back and slowly but surely with the help of time and the advice of people on this board, I moved forward.
It is hard to believe BD was only two years ago. I have come a long, long way since then and I am happy... much happier than I was when I was married to my XH. If you had told me two years ago I would get to this place, I would have told you that you were nuts. But I did...and you will too. Just keep moving forward. No fear!!! (((HUGS)))
Well I committed to DBing today. Fully. Hardest thing I ever did I’m just positive if I don’t change the pain will continue
She told me the other day that my daughters bed was in the room with my sons bed and that the daughter would sleep with her for now. Well my son told me her bed isn’t in his room. And she wouldn’t let the kids see her “room mates room” let’s be honest it’s because the other room is my daughters room. She just told me today “you will know who the roommate is when it’s time” I have enough of this BS even my 7 year old son is telling me his mom is lying to me. She just asked me “why do you want to know so bad? What does it matter?” I said because I need to make descisions about how to go forward with things and how things will be from now on between me and you. I know she would love to throw it In my face if I am wrong she would have texted me a picture of his room and told me to F off for accusing her. Yeah, I’m tired of being lied to. I have to be deluded if I think she moved in with a dude , he pays for it and she is in the master bedroom and isn’t banging him. Yeah i think i need to just admit to myself and stop listening to her BS. I’m tired of lying to myself.
She hasn’t been respecting boundaries and calling me and calling me and texting me. Testing me. I’ve been allowing it. So I just confronted her and of course she lied and avoided the questions and have stupid unlclear answers. It’s obvious to me now, it’s been obvious to you guys I’m plan B. , The apartment may be up sooner than January if it is I’m gonna just leave I’m tired of it. I’m not trying to wait around for 2 months.
I told her this exactly “ You just got done telling me things the other day and then our son tells me you lied to me.l that hurts. I can’t trust you, if I can’t trust you we can’t be talking and bonding and getting along like friends. We need to stop talking unless it’s about the kids, or it’s necessary. So if I don’t answer your calls from now on that’s why. No disrespect”
I wanted to address it now up-front because she will keep calling and texting me. And I didn’t even respect my own boundary before this time I will because I see it’s not about getting her back anymore it’s about stopping myself from getting hurt more by her lies and wayward BS.
I told her how I felt 100 times, told her I have regrets, told her i loved her. She’s heard it all. Seen a lot of 180s already and even acknowledged them. She isn’t stopping her wayward life, I’m sick of playing the pick me dance she can have him.
Steve,
I am really seeing that you are really struggling with all of this and think you can benefit greatly from getting some professional counseling. You are mistaking love with an unhealthy attachment you have to this woman. You know the truth so act accordingly. If she told you the truth how would that change things?
Your right it is an unhealthy attachment. I’m sure it stems from abandonment issues on my side. I’m the nervous kind she’s the avoidant.
Telling me the truth would have at least shown me she has some respect for me at least as the father of her kids. At least as a person that wouldn’t lie to me after taking everything away. I would have been able to give her some respect In Return for taking the hard right choice over the easy wrong one. But all these lies, what it did to our family and our kids, I have no respect for her anymore. She is a horrible person for doing this. She doesn’t even care what it’s doing to us all. She fits the wayward wife to a T. I wish I would have seen it sooner. I disagree that counseling will help me, I know what they will say, I’m aware of what the issues are. And I think stopping my denial and setting up a boundary around myself to prevent further cake eating was the right step. I will give the IC some consideration but it’s financially difficult at the moment. I know that this will take years to heal from and that [censored], but at least I’m not doing anything too crazy this time and I’ve handed this for the most part okay. Minus the flip flopping on DBing up to this point. From now on I’m saying things matter of fact, as little as possible, trying to get out of the house anytime she is around, just let her feel what life without me is like as much as possible. That’s what she asked for so that’s what she will get from now on. I’ve literally been supporting her and holding her hand and letting her spoon feed me lies this whole time. That is the worst thing I could have done. But can’t undo it only change the way I move forward. I just have to take this time to accept she’s with another man so when she announces it I won’t be destroyed and really sink into depression. So I’m gonna accept it and just let this all do it’s work. There is no lie she can tell me anymore that will comfort me now. It’s too late for that too obvious.
Sorry Steve. My XH referred to his gf as a “roommate” (swore on our kids’ lives that was all she was) right up until about a week before they got engaged. I had already decided he was lying long before that so it didn’t hurt as much as I had anticipated it might. What it did do, however, is make my direction really, really clear. It is amazing how much progress you can make once you genuinely drop the rope and stop hoping for change. My XH was not the person I thought he was or, more importantly, the person I wanted him to be. He wasn’t ever going to be that...and I’m not sure he ever was. His actions over the course of our marriage revealed a significant lack of character and I realized that even if he wasn’t with OW, he is still not the kind of person I want to spend my life with. Guess what? There are many, many other people out there who are.
If you do the work, you will look back on this a year or two from now and just shake your head in amazement that you ever felt this way about your WAS. You will know you are there when see your WAS and feel nothing other than “there’s someone I used to love”. Don’t be afraid of getting to that place. It is a fantastic place to be. (((HUGS)))
Thank you Dejavu I know that I won’t die from this, I know that time will eventually heal it. I felt like I had to confront her and look this thing in the face so I could tell myself that it’s done. I had to snuff out the last hope I had and pretty much turn my back on her. I don’t even want to be her friend after what she has done, I realized that what I do now makes no difference I went down several cheeseless tunnels and they had no avail. The only thing I haven’t tried is setting up a boundary calling her on this and sticking to it. LTR was something I thought I was gonna do before until she told me some more comforting lies, i can’t stop hearing everyone else I tell the story to tell me I’m an idiot. I wanted to believe her but there is just too many holes in her story. If I don’t respect myself and let her go she will never feel the loss, never feel the pain, just move along Scott free and I’ll be in her back pocket and She doesn’t deserve me anymore
That’s what she asked for so that’s what she will get from now on.
Hi Steve_, she did not ask for you to "I’m saying things matter of fact, as little as possible, trying to get out of the house anytime she is around, just let her feel what life without me is like as much as possible." You're making the choice to do this, which I support as wise and healthy.
I feel like I did the right thing doing that. Since then she has only called me once which i didn’t answer and kept things about the kids as I asked. I feel it was the right thing to do because it’s uncomfortable, it feels wrong, it’s hard and is not reassuring. That’s why I feel it’s probably the right thing to do at this point.
I honestly think that when I look back an OM makes sense to fill in every gap that’s happened, every lie, every story and I refused to see it holding on to hope. She even told me not to, that she needed to work it out alone. I’m not gonna like I have still a little ember of hope for recon and I don’t want to give up, but I know that the chances are really slim. She has done a whole lot to be with OM and her feelings gotta be prettty strong over there. I did the best thing I could have done and stopped feeding in. Now that she doesn’t have me pushing, hopefully his pulling will have to increase to maintain this over her guilt. I know she probably isn’t feeling the pain totally yet because I’ve been there on stand by. But I will continue to do this and just hope for the best but prepare for the worst. I applied for a townhouse apartment for me and the kids to live in today. I didn’t tell her. I think me saying things to her anymore is just giving her reassurance. All I have been doing is letting her walk away real easy from a good loyal man of 10 years. I need to cut that out and just move on like she isn’t coming back, because I think she actually may not this time. As hard as it is to admit, she may not come back and I have to face that and be a man now. It’s just hard to do. I really loved her, still do, but it’s unhealthy for me to continue this way. And I see that now. At this point there is nothing I can do, it’s in gods hands now.
Well her test came sooner than i thought. She face timed me today to ask about the kids i did not answer it. In a text after A few minutes she said she just wanted to talk to the kids. So I had my daughter call her on her iPad and went outside so I wasn’t on the call.
About 2 hours later she sends me a meme that has a picture of a bus trying to cross a train track the bus says “me trying to be nice” the train hitting it says “the things I say”. I didn’t respond to it. I am pretty sure she is trying to test me to see if I will even respect my own boundaries or she wants to see if I really did give up on her after telling her I know she’s lying it’s probably one of the two. But this is a micro transaction, this isn’t pursuit, recon, nothing. She still lives her own life with someone else, until that changes I’m sticking to my boundary. If I don’t she will never respect me since I don’t respect myself, and she can’t love me again if she don’t respect me at least. And maybe she never will love me again and she’s just messing with me because she likes to feel wanted by as many people as she can. Since I was her last safe place and pretty much cut her off all she has is whatever is out there. I hope she is happy with her choice. But I don’t think she is, she even said that. The moment i stop pushing she pursues. Every time. I hate this game.
Steve are in ic? I personally found it really helpful at the start. I only needed a couple of sessions, some benefit from ingoing support, and this is only from your messages as i do t know you, but i would say you need support in understanding yoir self worth, self esteem, understanding your own needs and boundaries and what you are willing to accept.
I know its fairly early days, but you are still second guessibg your W, you are still explaining. You had your s last chat, thats it. You dont need to tell her stop calling me, you just stop responding. She will catch on! Believe me when my H wants to speak he will txt asking of they are free?!! This is normal, as it might be an inconvenient time.
It feel like there is still so much emphasis on your W and so little on you! And in all of this, whichever way it ends, you are the most important person. When you are ok your kids will be too. So shift it from your W and thinking about her to you and the kids and thinking-what is the best for you?
Steve_ a couple of things.
First, boundaries are for you, not her. Boundaries trying to force behavior from her are wrong and have no chance of working. So how boundaries really should work is:
"If she says/does X, I will do Y."
Give you an example.
"If she sleeps with someone else, I will go file for D."
You have no control over X, but you do Y. Your boundary is that you will stand up for yourself in the face of poor behavior from her.
Second, ever see Star Wars? Remember what Princess Leia says to Darth Vader? "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers!" This is wisdom for the LBS. Steve_ since BD you have been trying to tighten your grip, and more of her has been slipping through your fingers. This is why you have to completely let go.
And I agree with Gigi, you should be in IC weekly right now.
Steve, you are a rollercoaster, buddy...
1) Stop talking. You feel the need to explain everything to her. I get it. I was there. Stop talking. it will do you no good and only cause problems. Stop talking.
2) Focus on only yourself and your kids. Don't make excuses to bring her into your area of focus. You and your kids are the only important thing now. Don't worry about what she says or does. If it doesn't involve you and your kids, it is not important.
3) It's time for you to have an affair. An affair with yourself. Love yourself. Do things for yourself. Find a new place for yourself. And keep all the info to yourself. She's not broadcasting the details of her affair. You don't need to broadcast the details of your affair with yourself
4) STOP TALKING...
Well it finally happened. I guess confronting her she couldn't make up any more lies. She admitted to me today that It was the friend of the family. She admitted its the guy that I was friends with, that our kids were friends with his kids and even my wife was friends with his wife, we went camping together, our families went to family functions together. This is so painful I cannot take it. So when she admitted it I just said this "Thanks for telling me the truth, this is really messed up. But I understand why you did this. I let you down I admit it. But he was my friend, Ill never speak to him again. Don't worry Im not gonna go beat his ass or anything, if this is what you want there is nothing I can do, I hope your happy now, this has cost all of us a lot."
I am the only one that knows, she told me this "Its not final you know, we are happy like together but I never see him, hes always gone, there will be a lot of issues, I know that already, Its not like I have made up my mind completely, Im watching him, Im watching you, and you have made so many changes and believe me I see them. She said things aren't set and this is not all for sure, anything could happen" I just told her "I gotta go to work now, bye"
Eventually I told her "I know that you did what you did for a reason, its very hurtful and I hope you understand that as long as he is in your life I cannot be in it, if you change your mind let me know, otherwise there is nothing to talk about anymore."
She just replied with "ok"
So it seems like at least I know what happened, that I wasn't crazy, that it was all lies and I got some closure now. It [censored] that these two would leave their kids and marriages for one another, the guilt and shame of this will pile up and they are doomed my kids and his kids are gonna be pissed the whole family will be pissed. But that's their problem. Im F'in done man. I gave it my best shot and she even saw it. Unless its about the children I absolutely refuse to speak to her. She made her choice now its time for her to face it. Without me being there to be her friend. I don't think I should go tell everyone, that would just make her blame me for blowing up her life. Im just gonna do something 180 from everything I want to do: nothing. I even went to work today on my day off. I don't want to be around her, I don't want to speak to her. She needs to lose me and I need to let myself grieve and be angry for awhile.
I don't know how to proceed forward with this. She gets really upset and justifes when I cut her off. But Im afraid if im too nice she will just do it anyways.
She did agree to me to not bring the kids around him until she is 100% sure this is what she wants. Part of me really wants to tell everyone what they are doing and nuke this thing. But I know that would make me the bad one she cant trust and ultimately it will come out anyways. People are starting to figure things out. I think what I should do is just stop talking to her. Stop saying anything. And when I have no choice be pleasant. Maybe this thing will self-destruct and I wont have to do much at all.
You outing her affair isn't morally right nor wrong IMO nor would it destroy trust. You can't destroy what she already destroyed and simply isn't there.
I sense you taking responsibility for her choice to have an affair. Again.
Please stop. Take back your respect.
I know you are hurting but know this gets better. Also remember that you can't talk her back into this either.
Try to let go emotionally and think logically. Do things you like for now and take care of your self and your kids first.
Steve_,
Well it finally happened. I guess confronting her she couldn't make up any more lies. She admitted to me today that It was the friend of the family. She admitted its the guy that I was friends with, that our kids were friends with his kids and even my wife was friends with his wife, we went camping together, our families went to family functions together. This is so painful I cannot take it. So when she admitted it I just said this "Thanks for telling me the truth, this is really messed up. But I understand why you did this. I let you down I admit it. But he was my friend, Ill never speak to him again. Don't worry Im not gonna go beat his ass or anything, if this is what you want there is nothing I can do, I hope your happy now, this has cost all of us a lot."
I know from experience there is a certain relief/validation in finally getting them to admit it and knowing "for sure". That said, I'm so sorry. It must be extra difficult that her AP is a friend of yours. Not only is your marriage at risk but also your friendship and all those memories. Hang in there...
I sense you taking responsibility for her choice to have an affair. Again.
Please stop. Take back your respect.
Also, I have to agree with ovrrnbw here. Of course we don't know you or your W more than these posts but for whatever faults you have (and we're all human) SHE is the one that had the affair, is breaking her vows, and potentially ending your marriage. Don't try to apologize your way back either - for what it's worth, it didn't work in my sitch.
I don't know how to proceed forward with this. She gets really upset and justifes when I cut her off. But Im afraid if im too nice she will just do it anyways.
She did agree to me to not bring the kids around him until she is 100% sure this is what she wants. Part of me really wants to tell everyone what they are doing and nuke this thing. But I know that would make me the bad one she cant trust and ultimately it will come out anyways. People are starting to figure things out. I think what I should do is just stop talking to her. Stop saying anything. And when I have no choice be pleasant. Maybe this thing will self-destruct and I wont have to do much at all.
Steve_, get into IC. You are not rationally thinking. You got your W to admit to lying and cheating, and then in the next breath you say "She did agree to me to not brign the kids around him". AS if you could trust her as far as you could throw her?!? Come on man. You are still so deep into denial. You come here get advice and then turnaround and let your impulses guide you. What are you trying to do here? Do you want to DB? or do you want to do what Steve_ wants?
Even in your DBing you are still trying control!!
" think what I should do is just stop talking to her. Stop saying anything. And when I have no choice be pleasant. Maybe this thing will self-destruct and I wont have to do much at all. "
NO, you do not stop talking to her and stop saying anything and be pleasant because her PA might self-destruct! Screw her and the PA! You do those things BECAUSE THEY ARE THE RIGHT THING FOR STEVE_!!!!!
Stop focusing on her. Start focusing on you. When you DB to effect change in her you are DBing wrong. WHen you DB to effect change in yourself THEN you are doing it right.
One more time for the people in the back... (I'm looking at you, Steve_)...
Steve, you are a rollercoaster, buddy...
1) Stop talking. You feel the need to explain everything to her. I get it. I was there. Stop talking. it will do you no good and only cause problems. Stop talking.
2) Focus on only yourself and your kids. Don't make excuses to bring her into your area of focus. You and your kids are the only important thing now. Don't worry about what she says or does. If it doesn't involve you and your kids, it is not important.
3) It's time for you to have an affair. An affair with yourself. Love yourself. Do things for yourself. Find a new place for yourself. And keep all the info to yourself. She's not broadcasting the details of her affair. You don't need to broadcast the details of your affair with yourself
4) STOP TALKING...
Yeah things didn’t go the way I planned. She’s already made plans on Christmas to meet his family. She told me last night that she wants to get this divorce no matter what happens, even if it doesn’t work out with him and she is pretty sure it won’t that she still doesn’t want to be married. She told me she doesn’t want me to have hope anymore, she pretty much said we are done this is it. And she doesn’t want to talk about OR anymore because we still have feelings for each other and it’s hard. She asked what I would do if I saw him and I said probably nothing. He isn’t worth me getting mad and I’m not that way. But I don’t want to be anywhere around him. It’s him or me so if it’s him then there is no me. I won’t come over for family events and do that stuff if he is gonna be around. I cannot. She just said, okay. She was able to explained why she left me for him and why she got with him as her way out of the M and she’s admitted that things with him ain’t perfect and they already argue. She isn’t sure she wants to be with him totally but it seems pretty damn sure she don’t want to be with me either. So yeah. She is just looking for a way out of the M without being alone, and he is doing the same thing, she admits she’s not even attracted to him and she is a lot more attracted to me but she is happy with him right now.
I think it’s time for me to realize I cannot fix this. There is nothing I can say or do. This will have to run its course and it’s all on her now. She fully expects me to run through a range of emotions, act crazy, do all kinds of stuff. I’m not going to backslide I haven’t acted that way. The worse thing I did was cry a bit, but I validated everything she said and when the time was right I disagreed but still understood. Everything is on the table now. There is nothing else to talk about anymore. Unless she wants to put this back together I’m just going to do my best to pretend she doesn’t exist. It seems that the only real chance I have of her ever coming back is to let her go completely, stop talking to her and just try to get myself through this gracefully. I’ll admit I’ve made plenty of mistakes but I haven’t done anything that can’t be undone in time. She was pretty understanding about me being upset. She is feeling guilty and sorry for me and sees me hurt. (Which i know is bad) I’m just gonna do my very best to act as if and stay away from her and not talk to her. This is the only way to stand for my M now. Totally alone and quietly. I’m going to go to the park with my friend and walk today. Just kind of be away from her. My plan is to follow sandi’s rules and move out when I can. Just say as little as possible. I think it was always too hard for me before because I had hope that I could do something to change it. That hope is gone. It’s going to be a long time if anything changes and I can’t do anything about that. I get it now.
Hi Steve,
Glad you plan to begin DB’ing! I’m so sorry for the most recent turn as this sounds like hell to live through. All these feelings she shared are how she feels today. Once the negative interactions (long talk sessions) stop, she’ll begin to realize what she’s losing.
Two worries I had reading your dialogue—
Everything is on the table now.
No, she is a lying cheater. The things she “admitted” to, like past admissions, may be lies or misleading you to reduce her guilt about making you feel bad or increase her chances of keeping you as Plan B. In PA situations we often see over and over the LBS believing they *now* have their truth. You may never know the full truth.
. I won’t come over for family events and do that stuff if he is gonna be around.
She’s lied and cheated on you—her betrayal seems deeper—why would you go to family events where she’s present but not where OM is present? Second, if OM goes to your kids’ school performance or is out when you pick up the kids, are you going to skip them? You realize the person who said she won’t introduce your kids to OM is a lier, right?
I have to admit, I’m glad it is out and I know. But her telling me definitely changed the dynamic. She is a lot more cold and distant now. After admitting she left me for him. I think she knows the games are over and there is no reason to plan B me now since it’s out that she chose someone else. I plan on just trying to worry about myself. I know R talks are a bad idea and there is no reason for us to have them anymore. So that’s good too. It still rips my heart out to find this out but I have to give myself a little credit it was only yesterday. Since then I’ve kept it business only and quiet. I applied for another apartment that would help me get out of here in the next couple weeks instead of months later. I’m hoping it works out. I am scared to be alone a bit but I know that’s the road ahead of me. I just don’t know how anyone can do this to someone they love. She has no idea the pain I am in because I won’t tell her. It will just drive her farther away. DBing is taking it like a champ. I’m doing my best. Man it’s hard.
I have to admit, I’m glad it is out and I know. But her telling me definitely changed the dynamic. She is a lot more cold and distant now. After admitting she left me for him. I think she knows the games are over and there is no reason to plan B me now since it’s out that she chose someone else. I plan on just trying to worry about myself. I know R talks are a bad idea and there is no reason for us to have them anymore. So that’s good too. It still rips my heart out to find this out but I have to give myself a little credit it was only yesterday. Since then I’ve kept it business only and quiet. I applied for another apartment that would help me get out of here in the next couple weeks instead of months later. I’m hoping it works out. I am scared to be alone a bit but I know that’s the road ahead of me. I just don’t know how anyone can do this to someone they love. She has no idea the pain I am in because I won’t tell her. It will just drive her farther away. DBing is taking it like a champ. I’m doing my best. Man it’s hard.
Steve_ this is common LBS thinking, and having the priority in the wrong things. You found out yesterday. It changed nothing. She left you for him whether you found out yesterday, the day after happened, or never. You are running on emotion, not intellect and logic. NOTHING HAS CHANGED. This is why we warn newcomers that the odds that your WAS is involved with someone else is 99.999999999%. Because when they inevitably find out about they get tripped up by it.
But nothing has changed. Today is no different from a DBing standpoint than 2 days ago was. Go back and read mbr's last post (he posted it twice). Go back and read my last post to you. Until you decide to DB....for you not her, then you will continue to struggle and be her whipping boy. Stop all that, go out and GAL. You sitting and stewing deciding what o say next to her is killing you. Get into IC and 180 on all of your own bad behaviors. Work on detachment as if your life depends on it. And stop obsessing about her, what she's doing, what she's going to do, etc.
Yeah her and I are on good terms right now. She is able to talk to me about anything but I definately need to detach. She told me today she has zero hate for me and she is sorry for what she did. I just explained the apartment situation and so on. I told her I also wanted to be on good terms and I realize there is nothing I can say or do that will change her mind. She told everyone in the family about her secret affair with him. Everyone is shocked. They all think that it is so wrong. But they are just gonna support her either way. She plays the unhappy wife that wanted a D either way and just accidentally did this too. That’s her story. Whatever man. It doesn’t change things. She did say that she does think that with the things I changed she could be happy with me. But she’s not there yet. She also admits that she told OM she don’t want to get married, don’t want to have kids with him, and she is working because he offered to pay for everything but she doesn’t want to be dependent on him in case she needs to leave. I think that will be the case for awhile but she will eventually start taking his money, getting comfortable. She plans on Introducing my kids to his family and him on Christmas. She is gonna be spending it with him with our kids. But the kids don’t know they are together. This is probably the worst part. I agreed with her to help keep the kids away from this until she is totally sure she wants this, and it seems Christmas Day is set. It’s pretty clear she has made plans in the long term with him and now she isn’t gonna turn back. I just wanted to keep my kids away from this as long as I could. I told her we can be friendly from now on but I don’t want to be In the friend zone, hanging around like a buddy, and I sure as hell don’t want to see OM. She understood. Yes the fact she wants to be nice about the separation doesn’t help that it’s shredding me apart but it is what it is. I just want to get this apartment and get the hell away from this place. I don’t know how to approach this but I’ll just keep looking at Sandis rules and try to back away more every day until it’s just Her picking up kids. And that’s all we are. That’s the way it needs to be.
I think I’ll keep the kids at my place. She can come and watch them on her days but I not going to let her stay the night. And I’m gonna try to find things to do so I’m not around. That would keep the kids away from OM and this mess as long as I can. I don’t think that making her take the kids there will be a good thing because I don’t want her having to tell them before she is ready and cementing that relationship into the kids. Obviously if she isn’t ready to tell them then she isn’t ready to commit to him 100% me making her do that won’t be a good thing, she hasn’t like changed Facebook or announced to the general public either she’s pretty much only told the people she has to tell that are close and we’re gonna figure this out. I’m not gonna shove her out the door but I’m also not gonna be there for her needs anymore.
I did some thinking today, i realized that this dynamic was doomed for awhile.
After she had multiple affairs she always came back out of guilt. She wasn’t here with me because she wanted to be she just did it because it was right. Of course I made mistakes as well which just piled up resentment and so on. I am starting to believe she is not the one for me. The way she is I don’t think she is the one for anyone. She has not learned any lessons she jumps out and into things as needed for her “happiness” she can’t be alone she can’t face the music. Until that changes there is no way she will be happy with me, him or anyone else. Not truly. She will just stay for this or that reason but not because she really wants to be there 100%. I can already tell she’s not in love with OM he was a way to get out of the M without doing it alone. She is using him. She has learned nothing. It’s actually sad. I don’t think she has truly loved me in a very long time. And I deserve someone that will. This pain has taught me a lot about myself. I guess that is the silver lining here. I will make some good woman very very happy one day. But I don’t think she even deserves me she is too selfish. Until she sees that being content with who you are, and relationships are about giving not receiving she will always fail no matter who she is with, she will never be happy. And there isn’t a dang thing that I can do about it, no amount of love I could offer can teach her who she needs to be. It’s sort of liberating to realize that.
** finally** Today I actually DB’d I went out with my buddy, kept it all business, let her come and go around the house as she pleased and acted as if. She literally stared at me as I did my AM routine. It was weird, she never looked at me that way. As the day with her here progressed I just acted okay, not like i was destroyed by OM drop yesterday and just focused on getting an apartment. I hope I get it it will be like 2 weeks here instead of 3 months. She went out even though it’s her day to watch them to go to the gym, and etc over at her place. I decided instead of having some “this is your day responsibility talk” which for sure would be negative I was just like “do what you gotta do I’m here with the kids so yeah. She said okay I’ll be back” yeah I doubt she will come home anytime soon I’ll bet she will go back to her place, never even hit the gym and spend time with OM cause he is needy that she is gone and he is alone she told me that today. She offered to send me a pic of her at the gym I just said “it doesn’t matter what you do now” she rolled her eyes. She for sure doesn’t believe my detachment but it’s day one I actually detached after OM drop and I been making it clear I want to recon so that’s to be expected. In time she will see I am over trying to save this and what she does I don’t care about.
I’m trying to decide if keeping my kids with me in the apt is the right thing to do and letting her watch them there. I’m conflicted about it. I don’t want them being pushed into her life with OM. She isn’t ready to do that and I feel like if I make it where she has to do that I’ll be blamed for making her commit to him. Get the kids involved etc.. and I don’t really want my kids involved unless she is sure she wants this OM. I don’t need them seeing this mess. So I agreed to keep them with me until she is ready to move them there. I told her she can watch them at my place but cannot stay the night. Part of me feels like it enables her to have a consequence free R with OM but I also feel like I shouldn’t use my kids as consequences either. Keeping them from this mess seems like the right thing to do as a dad. So that’s why i allowed it. But I’m detaching I can feel it inside myself, it’s mostly the disappointment that’s doing it and realizing that I cannot believe one word she says. So there is no point talking to her. She’s a liar and a cheater and an unhealthy person. I have do nothing to let consequences hit her except remove myself. Let her have her mess. But I do think keeping the kids out of it is the right thing to do for them not her.
Good for you to think about the wellbeing of the kids. I'm no expert in this but if you are trying to detach by being borderline vengeful, it might do you more damage to yourself in the long run. I was told to detach without the animosity to the W.
And don't even respond to her text if it doesn't warrant a response. Dropping remarks like "It doesn't matter what you do now" sounds vengeful and trying to guilt trip her. Maybe be more cordial and impartial by saying, "Appreciate it but I'm good, don't have to do that." or something along that line?
Yeah your right. That was dumb. She offered to prove her word and I told her to shove it. Yeah I see that now. I guess she lied so many times I figured she would just not end up sending the picture anyways then have to explain herself to me and I don’t want her thinking she owes me anything or I care what she does anymore. I need to stop trying to be this or that and just be a good person that I am. And just be cool about things. I should have said “no that’s okay you don’t need to do that but I appreciate the offer” oh well. Lesson learned. She still is in a place where I am her most closest friend that understands her even when she is destroying me I don’t like call her beg her grief her or any of that I just say “okay if this is what you want that’s fine” so I don’t think that one transaction was life changing or anything but I definitely need to handle things more gracefully and less emotional. I’m definately still hurt and angry and that isn’t a good place to be around her. Thanks for helping me see that.
Well she asked what we were doing via text. I didn’t want to answer her but I saw this as an opportunity to smooth things over so I took it. I told her I am just putting the kids to sleep, I do appreciate you offering to send me a pic of you at the gym, it’s not necessary but it was nice of you, good nite”. She text me back I’m not at the gym I’m in the bathroom crying and sent me a pic of her crying, it was not manipulation since she didn’t just randomly send it to me i don’t think. And She is not a cryer. I told her “i know it’s not my business but if you want to talk I’ll listen if not that’s okay too.” She said “just a lot going on, too much pressure” “I’ll be ok” I told her “okay, good nite.” and she responded “good nite”
I didn’t do that for her I did it for me, because I am a good person. And I like to make things right with people when I can. I can’t afford to do that again. But I did see it as an opportunity to get rid of the last negative interaction. I work the next 3 days all day and I do not plan on contacting her besides business only if she contacts me first. I am determined to become whole by myself I hope I can get there soon. This rollercoaster [censored] and I need to get off it and let her argue with her insecure OM and struggle with her morality without me. I’m not her husband anymore she fired me and replaced me. That needs to be my mantra going forward. LH, Steve82, Cwarrior and the rest of you guys following and commenting help a lot and you all right. I need some self respect, I need to worry about me now.
Steve,
I’m not sure what we can do for you on this board. We are here to give you advice on what to do to save yourself which also gives you the best chance to save your marriage. You do not follow any of it. The best advice given you is to first get into IC. I know you said you can’t afford it but I think you cannot afford not to go. You can not ever have a healthy relationship with your W until you both make major changes. You can only control yourself so you need to start with you. In six years on the board I don’t think I have seen some more codependent then you. You need to break the cycle and get yourself better. This is tough stuff and you need some help.
She is such a master master manipulator you think this isn’t manipulation even when others point it out and it’s so obvious.
You say she needs time to evaluate her self and do work.
So do you. Asking yourself why you let her cheat, leave and come back 5 different times. Why you don’t value yourself and keep taking her back and ensuring you are the back up plan.
Why you will leave yourself as plan B. If you ever want a healthy relationship, you need to work on this stuff.
I don’t think that one transaction was life changing or anything
Ever heard the saying "death by a thousand papercuts"? Each one is ineffective by itself, but combined they do massive damage. Every time you have one of these "transactions", it adds up over time with the others. That you cannot see that concerns me.
Well she asked what we were doing via text. I didn’t want to answer her but I saw this as an opportunity to smooth things over so I took it. I told her I am just putting the kids to sleep, I do appreciate you offering to send me a pic of you at the gym, it’s not necessary but it was nice of you, good nite”. She text me back I’m not at the gym I’m in the bathroom crying and sent me a pic of her crying, it was not manipulation since she didn’t just randomly send it to me i don’t think. And She is not a cryer. I told her “i know it’s not my business but if you want to talk I’ll listen if not that’s okay too.” She said “just a lot going on, too much pressure” “I’ll be ok” I told her “okay, good nite.” and she responded “good nite”
What part of this falls into the mbr's "STOP TALKING" advice?
Steve_, this is a solid post. First, because it doesn't involve you talking to you WW at all. That's great. Second, you're staring to realize your self worth and starting to respect yourself..
I did some thinking today, i realized that this dynamic was doomed for awhile.
After she had multiple affairs she always came back out of guilt. She wasn’t here with me because she wanted to be she just did it because it was right. Of course I made mistakes as well which just piled up resentment and so on. I am starting to believe she is not the one for me. The way she is I don’t think she is the one for anyone. She has not learned any lessons she jumps out and into things as needed for her “happiness” she can’t be alone she can’t face the music. Until that changes there is no way she will be happy with me, him or anyone else. Not truly. She will just stay for this or that reason but not because she really wants to be there 100%. I can already tell she’s not in love with OM he was a way to get out of the M without doing it alone. She is using him. She has learned nothing. It’s actually sad. I don’t think she has truly loved me in a very long time. And I deserve someone that will. This pain has taught me a lot about myself. I guess that is the silver lining here. I will make some good woman very very happy one day. But I don’t think she even deserves me she is too selfish. Until she sees that being content with who you are, and relationships are about giving not receiving she will always fail no matter who she is with, she will never be happy. And there isn’t a dang thing that I can do about it, no amount of love I could offer can teach her who she needs to be. It’s sort of liberating to realize that.
Unfortunately, it was fleeting. You jumped right back into her lap. The whole crying in the bathroom selfie was such a blatant manipulation move, that it blows my mind you fell for it. She knows you well, man. She is playing you like a violin. She knows every note and can make you sing any song she wants. Get your head back in the game...
I'm gonna put this here one more time for you...
Steve, you are a rollercoaster, buddy...
1) Stop talking. You feel the need to explain everything to her. I get it. I was there. Stop talking. it will do you no good and only cause problems. Stop talking.
2) Focus on only yourself and your kids. Don't make excuses to bring her into your area of focus. You and your kids are the only important thing now. Don't worry about what she says or does. If it doesn't involve you and your kids, it is not important.
3) It's time for you to have an affair. An affair with yourself. Love yourself. Do things for yourself. Find a new place for yourself. And keep all the info to yourself. She's not broadcasting the details of her affair. You don't need to broadcast the details of your affair with yourself
4) STOP TALKING...
You are way too wordy. Keep it simple. The correct response to the gym picture was "No thanks". That's it. No more. No less. "No thanks", "Sure", "Sounds Good". etc. need to become staples of your vocabulary...
I'd also like to add that I think having your W come to your place to watch the kids is an awful idea. You'll never be able to detach. It's like having cancer and getting the tumor removed because that's what it best for your health. Then having the tumor stuck back in a couple times a week. Seems unhealthy. She can take the kids to the park or something. Visit grandparents. Go to the library. Go somewhere. You say you don't want to use the kids as consequences, and you're not. You're using them as an excuse...
Yeah I had been thinking about that, it was so important to me to be the good guy that did everything to save this. Everything to make it easier to come back, everything to understand it and take the blame. I need to stop. It occurred to me a serious truth driving to work this morning,
Yes I made mistakes, but ive been taking the blame for all of it. There is 100 things she could have done to save the relationship if she wanted but she chose to have an exit affair. I already know its not gonna work, she does too. It was her easy way out. She already has a "whatever happens happens" attitude with him she told her sister that on the phone, its actually sad she admits to destroying both our lives and doesn't even feel bad for it. As long as I remain holding on, standing by, etc she will continue on and on with no reason to stop her A. Talking to her and being nice is just killing me, my chances at recon, and saving my family. The first step I had to admit to myself is that no matter what she says this is not all my fault. Step two, walk away. I have decided that I have done enough, and anything else will hurt my chances so I will not contact her, I will not be friendly or mean and vengeful with her. I will just treat her like a co-stranger whom I have no interest in because she isn't my wife anymore, hasn't been for a long time. I will let her have her divorce and her affair partner and stop trying to be the knight in shining armor, its not gonna work and its just hurting me to do it.
Nice guying her back worked the last 4 times, it wont work this time, because it actually never did work, she is gone again. All it did was get worse.
I do have to say everything I have done so far has been a 180 for me. In prior breakdowns I truly broke down. I got drunk, messy, cried, begged, pleaded, told everyone, called her friends for help to talk to her, I did all the wrong things.
This time I am still messing up, I am being too nice. But I have to give myself a little credit for being stronger than ever. I have not begged, pleaded, or threatened did any of that crap. I just say "I understand, I agree things weren't going well and we needed to change" After all the lying and deception I have still done none of that. And she has been very cold. While I may have messed up my chances for recon its okay because I know I did things a lot better than ever before and I can say I did everything I could.
My only thing left to decide is the kids. I know ill be moving out as soon as I can, I know I cannot let her watch them at my place, it will be too hard for me and ill be too tempted to backslide. I need to get away and stay away. And honestly that's the best thing to do for both of us. I feel like letting them stay at my place at nights is the best choice as long as shes just dropping them off. If I don't do that she will have to take them to her place with OM and that final barrier to them being a complete couple is broken. I feel like its not my job to protect her from her choices but I do want to protect my kids. So I don't think I need to be like "on your days figure out where the kids are staying, this was your choice" or anything like that. She will just use it to fuel resentment/anger anyways. I think the best approach is to let them stay with me and just ask her to pick them up and take them out on her days and she can drop them off at night so they don't have to go live with OM and Im not pushing her to cross that line, but Im also not letting her hang around me either. I'm thinking that may be the best way forward.
At this point the less I am around her/speaking to her the better, I can see that. I get all these feelings that things are okay when she manipulates me, I get this hope and then I get crushed every time she leaves the house. I cant do that to myself anymore, its unhealthy and I need to let her go and stop this stupid game.
, I know I cannot let her watch them at my place, it will be too hard for me and ill be too tempted to backslide.
Hi Steve, I'm glad you're leaning away from letting her watch the kids at your place. Frankly, any custody model that has you interacting with her daily is a terrible idea if your goal is to detach. I would consider setting additional boundaries to ensure you don't interact daily. So many LBS use these exchanges as an opportunity to show-off, and you'll be ahead of the curve if you avoid that and focus on detaching, GAL, and your kids. Please remember boundaries control you, not her, and so most don't require communication. Translation: This is NOT an excuse for another long talky or acting "tough".
Once you secure a place, "I got a place. If you'd prefer, I can continue to keep the kids 8pm to 8am." If she agrees, at the first hand-off, "Just let the kids out at the drive-way. Thanks!" My ex-wife has never stepped foot in, or seen the inside of my house, in the 10yrs since I divorced her.
If I don't do that she will have to take them to her place with OM and that final barrier to them being a complete couple is broken. I feel like its not my job to protect her from her choices but I do want to protect my kids.
Steve, they are a couple. Be happy in this scenario--if she agrees to it--you get to spend every night with your kids for a period of time. Don't imagine she's signing some contract not to introduce them to OM.
Yeah I got word today the apartment I applied for was approved. It will be ready in the next 10-15 days. I think it will be seeing her everyday until she gets comfortable enough with him to start letting them stay there. My kids are 5 and 7 so she cant just sort of drop them off on the curb in an apartment complex it will end up with her knocking the door. My other option I might be able to do is ask her to leave them at her moms and I can get them from there, that way I have no need to see her at all. Maybe ill do that for awhile at least until I get detatched. Im trying but I cant stop having pain, anxiety, a sense of crushing hopelessness and despair 24/7. Seeing her doesn't help that. Im not going to say anything to her now but I think when I need to next week or so It'll just be
"I am moving out xxxx day, I have decided it is best if you don't watch the kids at my place, but of course they can stay the night with me, if I have any overnight plans ill let you know so you can arrange them to stay at your moms or somewhere else. "
Yeah I got word today the apartment I applied for was approved. It will be ready in the next 10-15 days. I think it will be seeing her everyday until she gets comfortable enough with him to start letting them stay there. My kids are 5 and 7 so she cant just sort of drop them off on the curb in an apartment complex it will end up with her knocking the door. My other option I might be able to do is ask her to leave them at her moms and I can get them from there, that way I have no need to see her at all. Maybe ill do that for awhile at least until I get detatched. Im trying but I cant stop having pain, anxiety, a sense of crushing hopelessness and despair 24/7. Seeing her doesn't help that. Im not going to say anything to her now but I think when I need to next week or so It'll just be
"I am moving out xxxx day, I have decided it is best if you don't watch the kids at my place, but of course they can stay the night with me, if I have any overnight plans ill let you know so you can arrange them to stay at your moms or somewhere else. "
Too wordy, again.
I have decided that you shouldn't watch the kids at my place. We can work out childcare details soon."
You are still trying solve her problem for her. "they can stay at your moms". Not your responsibility. What she does with the kids when it is her night to watch them is up to her.
When she texted me crying last nite she said "too much pressure" she was on her phone with her sister and said that the OM doesn't like her being gone all nite with the kids for 4 days. He complains that he is lonely and needs her. She feels pressured by him. Last night I watched the kids on her night and she said she had to do laundry at her place etc.. I know she saw him and they had a fight about the kids situation. And her being gone. She doesn't want to ask me to watch them every night to be with him cause she knows I wont want that. She also doesn't want to leave her kids alone every night to be with him. part of me thinks if I agree to watch the kids at my place every night she will just be able to spend more stress free time with OM and Ill be enabling it. She will have to continue to stay at her mom's those nights or move them in with OM if I don't watch them at night. I don't want to be a baby sitter so she can be there for OM and I also don't want my kids being in this R with OM before she is ready, I don't know what to do.
There is a reason she hasn't introduced the kids to him as her new man, and hasn't changed her facebook or anything else to the general public. Im trying to figure out how to approach this without enabling the bad behavior or pushing her to commit to him, she wants to be able to walk away at any time she has told me and she doesn't want to be committed to him until she is ready to do that. I don't know how much of that is BS or whatever but they were hiding the whole thing until 2 days ago, if she felt good about it there wouldn't be the need to hide it.
part of me thinks I should just tell her that ill watch the kids on my days/nights and that is it. She made the choice to do it to them and its kind of unfair I am expected to enable it. Then again im torn because I don't want them seeing this go down it will hurt them.
Not to mention I am the one paying 1,000 a month child support for them if im gonna be watching them every night that's messed up. She will take her sweet time to get to them in the AM and try to leave them early in the PM I feel.
She would have to decide if she is gonna leave them at her moms with her and watch them there or move them in with OM ahead of plan. The children will tell everyone and I think that is what she is most afraid of. I know its not my job to protect her from reality but I really don't want to be a bad father. I think not watching them on her days doesn't make me a bad father but I will certainly be accused of it. As part of the anger of not going along with their plans I know that already.
Not to mention I am the one paying 1,000 a month child support for them if im gonna be watching them every night that's messed up.
First, that's not how child support works--if you have not already, please contact an attorney. Child support is usually based on the % of time the kids spend with each parents. Even though I make 50% more than my ex, court calculations usually showed her owing me support, which I then waived.
She will take her sweet time to get to them in the AM and try to leave them early in the PM I feel.
Second, this is why I suggested specifying what constitutes an overnight--e.g., 8pm-8am. My custody plan has immediate consequences for not abiding by the terms, but even if yours does not spell out consequences, patterns of failure to meet responsibilities may be presented to a judge for adjustment.
I think not watching them on her days doesn't make me a bad father but I will certainly be accused of it.
Third, focus on Steve-centric and kid-centric motives in making decisions. Is it better for Steve to have his kids every night? Is it better for your kids to stay with you instead of her? It's her custody time, so this is only if she decides she wants you to have the kids during her overnights.
She would have to decide if she is gonna leave them at her moms
If she offers and you decline, she may do that, she may do something else. That's up to her.
She will take her sweet time to get to them in the AM
What would your local daycare do about this?
Strike #1 - Hi, just a reminder, our agreement is you pick them up at 8am.
Strike #2 - Hi, just a reminder, our agreement is you pick them up at 8am, or consequences.
Strike #3 - <Consequences>
and try to leave them early in the PM I feel.
What would your local daycare do about this? She knocks on door and it's not 7:45pm+. You don't answer. She knocks on door and it's 7:45pm+. You answer. Note I gave a 15-min grace period. This is not about being cold, or mean, it's about setting reasonable boundaries like anyone else would.
Well things took a weird turn. The apartment is ready sooner than I expected. In 8 days.
I just messaged her, "I got the apartment, its in 8 days"
She says "I feel weird about that" So I asked what she means and she pretty much went on to say that once I move out things will be real for the kids, different. I told her yeah, things have been pretty real for me so what do you want me to do? I cant find another place to go that works like this one. She asked for more time like December 1st to let the kids ease into this separation, I told her I cannot do that. I asked if its because she doesn't want them to live with OM and she said "yes" then she said "I shouldn't be telling you this but, I am trying to get him to leave me" I laughed and told her, "You did that to me a few times, it doesn't work, nice guys wont leave, your just gonna hurt everyone including yourself the longer you stay if you don't want to be there, you already know that" She said "he is doing everything awesome but I don't think I want to be with him its a mess" I told her well, listen I cant tell you what to do, I told you how I felt, if your gonna chose to have him in your life I have to take care of myself, I am not going to push you to do anything, its your choice and this is all part of that. I said I know he is gonna get upset when you have to watch the kids at your moms now, is that why your doing it? she said "that's his F'in problem" I said "I know" then she said "I just cant leave right now" and I said okay well that's fine, Im going to get the place and move out. She said "see you tonight?" I said yep and that was that.
Unpacking this there is a lot of pitfalls especially for me as an LBS to fall into. This seems like something but it actualy means nothing, only her actions do now, this is more of her wishy-washy crap. She is just trying to see if she can manipulate me into making her life easier for her to continue her A. Nope not gonna do that, im watching the kids on my days at my place and that's it. The rest is on her, she is scared of reality and that's exactly what she needs, im done saving her from it. Im sick of not standing up for myself. If she wont chose me im leaving im not hanging around like she asked to make life easier for her.
You are a father, not a babysitter. You take your kids when you want, because you want to be with her kids. It’s her loss to choose OM over her kids. You cannot control what she decides to do in her spare time by not giving her spare time. You are trying so hard to control what she does with OM. You can’t. She may chose her OM over her own kids. That’s her choice, not you enabling it. If you don’t want your kids every night, then you tell her you can’t them when it’s not her time and she could figure it out. But if you want your kids that extra time, don’t let the deciding factor be who who she is spending time with when she’s not having kids.
Stop trying to control her. Hasn’t worked very well the last 5
Times she left you for OM, did it?
And good lord, why are you having conversations with her about OM? Why are you even talking to her about anything that doesn’t involve kid logistics?!!
I would do some serious exploring about why you let this woman trample over you, use your, manipulate you, cheat on you, etc. why???
Oof. You keep saying you will start DB'ing, then have these talky sessions.
Yeah that's true. I still haven't decided if I am going to watch the kids every night or not. I feel really conflicted about it. Doing so will absolutely enable her A and If I am trying to stand for my M alone I don't really want to help her with her A. I think I will just do something in between and be really flexible when I first move out with the kids but ask for a couple days a week in a row where I am not watching them overnight. That will give me the more time I want with them and keep me from being a total pushover babysitter. I can just say hey, I cant watch them Friday night, im going out with my friends. etc... she will have to figure it out. not my problem I have to have a life too.
So she forgoes time with the kids to be with OM? Listen, I'm a WAW. I made some bad mistakes. But as a mother I cannot, for the life of me, ever imagine putting time with a man above time with my children.
Anytime spent with your kids is not enabling her A. It’s time spent with your kids.
Stop. Controlling.
Well things took a weird turn. The apartment is ready sooner than I expected. In 8 days.
I just messaged her, "I got the apartment, its in 8 days"
She says "I feel weird about that" So I asked what she means and she pretty much went on to say that once I move out things will be real for the kids, different. I told her yeah, things have been pretty real for me so what do you want me to do? I cant find another place to go that works like this one. She asked for more time like December 1st to let the kids ease into this separation, I told her I cannot do that. I asked if its because she doesn't want them to live with OM and she said "yes" then she said "I shouldn't be telling you this but, I am trying to get him to leave me" I laughed and told her, "You did that to me a few times, it doesn't work, nice guys wont leave, your just gonna hurt everyone including yourself the longer you stay if you don't want to be there, you already know that" She said "he is doing everything awesome but I don't think I want to be with him its a mess" I told her well, listen I cant tell you what to do, I told you how I felt, if your gonna chose to have him in your life I have to take care of myself, I am not going to push you to do anything, its your choice and this is all part of that. I said I know he is gonna get upset when you have to watch the kids at your moms now, is that why your doing it? she said "that's his F'in problem" I said "I know" then she said "I just cant leave right now" and I said okay well that's fine, Im going to get the place and move out. She said "see you tonight?" I said yep and that was that.
Unpacking this there is a lot of pitfalls especially for me as an LBS to fall into. This seems like something but it actualy means nothing, only her actions do now, this is more of her wishy-washy crap. She is just trying to see if she can manipulate me into making her life easier for her to continue her A. Nope not gonna do that, im watching the kids on my days at my place and that's it. The rest is on her, she is scared of reality and that's exactly what she needs, im done saving her from it. Im sick of not standing up for myself. If she wont chose me im leaving im not hanging around like she asked to make life easier for her.
You just can't stop yourself, can you?
Yeah she has been letting me put them to bed and missing out being around at night for a long time. Shes been off in A land having a good ol' time.
I didn't bring up the OM, just asked her why she wanted me to wait until December and to tell me the truth. The truth regarded the OM and her not wanting the kids there. She came out with "im trying to make him leave me" I shouldn't have even listen to that and stopped her but I guess curiosity got the best of me there. At least I didn't offer to change my plans for her to her liking. Im moving out and she isn't gonna stop that. I need to be stronger now and its coming little by little. I need to grow a pair sooner than later, she was like "well why not wait you wont even have anything there yet and you will have the kids over" I just said "ill be fine, don't worry about it."
Yeah that's true. I still haven't decided if I am going to watch the kids every night or not. I feel really conflicted about it. Doing so will absolutely enable her A and If I am trying to stand for my M alone I don't really want to help her with her A. I think I will just do something in between and be really flexible when I first move out with the kids but ask for a couple days a week in a row where I am not watching them overnight. That will give me the more time I want with them and keep me from being a total pushover babysitter. I can just say hey, I cant watch them Friday night, im going out with my friends. etc... she will have to figure it out. not my problem I have to have a life too.
Holy crap. Every one of your decisions is ABOUT HER!?!
Just stop. Live your life, let her live hers. Put a 50/50 child custody agreement in place.
It is time to get off the merry-go-round.
I gotta start DBing, I don't know why its so hard, its like that convo should never have took place I see it now. That took any mystery and separation anxiety out of her. There I was to tell her everything as usual. Damn
I think moving out will help, living with her and shes back n forth between home and OM makes this harder.
We have worked out the days for the separation so I think once I move out there wont be a need for this crap anymore.
I'm very pro-woman, I'm a girls girl, I usually understand and sympathize with the woman's side of things. I think a lot of time, men don't really get what they've done wrong and are too quick to not examine their part in things. BUT, your wife is really acting out here. Continuously putting another man in front of her children on a long term basis is a very extreme act on the part of a mother. She may be a good person who has lost her way, but these actions really call into question her character. I think you need to pull away and really think about if this someone you actually want to be married to.
I'm very pro-woman, I'm a girls girl, I usually understand and sympathize with the woman's side of things. I think a lot of time, men don't really get what they've done wrong and are too quick to not examine their part in things. BUT, your wife is really acting out here. Continuously putting another man in front of her children on a long term basis is a very extreme act on the part of a mother. She may be a good person who has lost her way, but these actions really call into question her character. I think you need to pull away and really think about if this someone you actually want to be married to.
Steve sorry for the hijack but I want to disagree with pushymom on her comment above. I think most of the guys here do own their side of the street and understand what they did wrong. Most of them are guilty of taking their Ws for granted and not understanding women and how to make them happy. Does that justify blowing up families with children while having affairs in search of the knight in white shiny armor?
Hey! Really wasn't trying to insult or offend anyone here. Sorry if it read that way. Nothing justifies an affair. I simply meant that as a woman, I can often see the woman's perspective, but that in this case I'm really not understanding where OP's wife is coming from and I think OP may have to seriously consider the character of the woman in question. I'm new here and my sincere apologies if I overstepped or offended. Also, the screen name is Rustymom not Pushymom. I'm sincerely trying to be helpful and not pushy. I'm going to refrain from giving any further advice because I'm new here. So I will just stick to my own thread.
WtF I don’t know where I got pushy from lol. No worries and you are certainly entitled to post and your opinion. I’m not completely disagreeing with you about men. What I’m saying is in a lot of the cases the punishment doesn’t fit the crime. No offense taken. It’s ok for people to disagree on this board.