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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2902804#Post2902804I've been able to video call S19 several times this week. He's been doing well but today was tough as some classes has been switched to online and then the internet for the college went out... today was particularly frustrating for him. These kids have been dealt so many obstacles. Hopefully tomorrow is a better day for him.
Leaving town for the weekend heading north to visit female bff --- looking forward to be out of my house.
This time next week should be in San Carlos
Just have to get through the day tomorrow.
Have a great time KC!!! Don’t think about anything when you are there. Just be in the moment and enjoy being with your bff!! (((HUGS)))
Sounds fun.. and healthy! I hope you have a great time and it clears your head. I haven't commented much lately, but I' have been following your struggles to stop live interactions and stop listening to your ex about non-business matters. May you have a wonderful weekend.
I hate being awake at 2am.
I hate that I want to text you that I hate being awake at 2am [I know you are up because you are at work]
I hate that yesterday that I woke up twice in the middle of the night and you were in both my dreams.
I hate that I sit here in your lies and deceit in one hand and then memories of some amazing good times with you in the other struggling to make sense of who you are. I miss how close we were and shared everything... I hate that you are having that with someone else... that I don't get that part of you anymore. I think that's what I hate most of all.
Maybe one day I can be indifferent to it but I know today is not that day.
KK,
You will be indifferent one day or at least it will take a minimum headspace. This is a process you have to go through and there is no way around it. You're still in the early part of the journey and trust me your H will continue to do things to disappoint you.
If I could give any one piece of advice to a new LBS it would be that after the D bomb is dropped its to grieve the m, work on yourself and move on. Life is too short and there are many adventures and journeys to be had and if they ever changes their minds you can think about it then. Anything else is a waste of energy and time.
You'll get there.
(((KC))). I remember the sleepless nights all too well. Keep moving forward. You will sleep better as time goes on and you continue to heal. LH’s advice is spot on. Hard to do but so worth it in the end. (((HUGS)))
(((KC))). I remember the sleepless nights all too well. Keep moving forward. You will sleep better as time goes on and you continue to heal. LH’s advice is spot on. Hard to do but so worth it in the end. (((HUGS)))
I think the issue here is how long KC had continued to struggle. KC you're still on ADs even, right?
This is why I'm not sure you'll ever move forward without some help.
(((KC))). I remember the sleepless nights all too well. Keep moving forward. You will sleep better as time goes on and you continue to heal. LH’s advice is spot on. Hard to do but so worth it in the end. (((HUGS)))
I think the issue here is how long KC had continued to struggle. KC you're still on ADs even, right?
This is why I'm not sure you'll ever move forward without some help.
Yup still on AD's...
I will state that I have moved forward but moving forward isn't linear. I've had better days and frankly days where I know I haven't thought as much about this or that in regards to my situation.
I went from not sleeping at all... to sleeping much better to this waking up at 3am crap to suddenly now he is invading my dreams... so hopefully this will swing back to sleeping well again.
I've gotten quite lazy with my workouts in the last 3 weeks. Once I get back from Mexico I need to readjust my focus and start getting back on track with that routine. Gosh, I absolutely hate exercise but I always feel amazing when I do.... got to get moving again!
Steve85.. maybe I'm not moving forward at your pace but I do look back and see forward movement. I've accepted it 3 steps forward and 2 back.
Soooo... drove 4hr to be at female bff for the weekend.
Its been awesome but since I'm a morning person these days I'm awake and the rest of the house is quiet. I'll be getting up shortly to start my day but still relaxing a bit in bed. When you work every other weekend its important to pack in some down time on weekends off.
Due to conversations last week in trying to schedule a meet up with H to do documents he knew I was going to be out of town this weekend.
He confirmed that during his "I owe you an apology" call last week. Telling me he was working Saturday and would be less sleep deprived but then suddenly interrupted himself by stating "oh you are going out of town this weekend, right?" I just replied with yes. I never told him my plans and he never asked.
I left early for my weekend, like 6am and while I have H's text on mute my car dinged with notifications.
Friday 10pm
H: Do you still work on Tuesday?
Saturday 6:30am
H: I will be by then to pick up the water pump and stuff.
Saturday 2pm
H: Where do you want me to leave the dog treats for X (my dog)
WTH???
He never texts on the weekends. At most he will text Sunday afternoon or evening but hasn't done that in 3 weeks. Why is he texting me 3 times on a weekend when he knows I'm out of town???
AND, most of you know that I struggled during the days when H was moving out of the house where he would randomly blurt out an offer to take me on a motorbike ride... then 2 weeks later "oh hey, do you need me to make more dog treats?" -- he had taken our commercial dehydrator and since he had that I sent all the liver out of the freezer with him. At the time of the offer he hadn't been aware that he was taking the puppy. And, then there was infamous multiple mentions that H will help move S19 to college.
I did make the mistake with the motorbike offer and contacted him 2 weeks later about it being a nice day... he said he had offered but felt it was too cold that particular day. The next day when he came to get more stuff he commented again about the weather...... I never mentioned it again.
I will admit that a week before moving S19 I did call him out for all his offers to help... It was pointing out how he has just blown off S19... the kid he helped raised for 10yr who internalizes this crap and as much as S19 portrays this H is an ahole mentality I see him break with sadness when I ask if H ever contacted him. S19 is hurt... hurt to the point he is angry.
But since the mistake months ago of mentioning the motorbike ride... I never brought up the dog treats. He took the puppy so he would just make treats for the puppy and not think about me or the other dog.
So this comes out of no where nearly 4 months later?
SIDENOTE - LH, I'm not spinning just completely perplexed. Puzzled. Wondering why..... in stealing some of H's own words "why now?".... LOL. I mean just last Wednesday he was stating I had better have something in writing to him at the end of the week (like in 2 days) in regards to financial agreement.
I'm sure this is all just to keep me off balance... he won't admit to me OW... so this is all keeping me in PLAN B positiion??? Its weird. We have not seen each other in over 3 months.
Well - I'm out of town this weekend. I have NOT responded to a single text.
KC. Glad you are getting some time away. RE: H’s behaviour. Who knows? Not really worth thinking about at this stage... I have to say...and please don’t take this as a criticism...I am a bit worried you are still having sleepless nights after two and a half years. I get the concept of standing for your marriage but detachment is a really important part of that if you want to maintain your sanity. I think that is something you need to really focus on.
Maybe you are a bit stuck because you don’t have any formal agreements in place (just assuming based on your statement about him wanting a financial agreement from you)? Is there a reason you haven’t provided him with the info he needs? I know in my sitch that when my XH presented me with a formal separation agreement for us to work on, it was a really painful event BUT it was also a big step toward detachment and ultimately to where I am at now...happy and no longer wishing things were different. It is a really great place to be KC. You can get there too. (((HUGS)))
KC. Glad you are getting some time away. RE: H’s behaviour. Who knows? Not really worth thinking about at this stage... I have to say...and please don’t take this as a criticism...I am a bit worried you are still having sleepless nights after two and a half years. I get the concept of standing for your marriage but detachment is a really important part of that if you want to maintain your sanity. I think that is something you need to really focus on.
Maybe you are a bit stuck because you don’t have any formal agreements in place (just assuming based on your statement about him wanting a financial agreement from you)? Is there a reason you haven’t provided him with the info he needs? I know in my sitch that when my XH presented me with a formal separation agreement for us to work on, it was a really painful event BUT it was also a big step toward detachment and ultimately to where I am at now...happy and no longer wishing things were different. It is a really great place to be KC. You can get there too. (((HUGS)))
As I said... I was sleeping well and now back to being awake at 3am.... could he any number of things.
And while H and I had a rough spot 3yr ago.... he only left the M and MH 6 1/2mo ago.
I realize I cannot make any sense as to why he is contacting about the dog treats now and especially when he knows I'm not home.... only he knows that and I'm not asking.
KK,
Youre spinning big time. Nothing to see here. Move on and enjoy your trip.
KK,
Youre spinning big time. Nothing to see here. Move on and enjoy your trip.
At least tell me I did awesome by not responding to his texts.... LOL
Hi KitCat, not responding to those texts is great, since none of them rose to the level of essential business you need to (or should) respond to ever.
KK,
Truthfully we should be way past patting you on the back for not responding to texts.
Well okay....
I guess I didn't see myself as spinning at all. Perplexed and nearly angry that he is texting when he knows I'm out of town and NOW he wants to bring dog treats???
In the past I would have certainly been spinning - what should I say, do, how to handle this, what does it mean...
I know 100% this means nothing. Certainly puzzled me for sure but ultimately I'm angry.
Its a half arsed attempt to keep me hanging on.
He will be by the house tomorrow to pick up some more things I found of his in the attic. I will NOT be here. Who knows, maybe he leaves the dog treats.
Getting slammed at work right now which is good... its keeps me focused on other stuff.
WTH???
He never texts on the weekends. At most he will text Sunday afternoon or evening but hasn't done that in 3 weeks. Why is he texting me 3 times on a weekend when he knows I'm out of town???
He does it a lot more than you seem to realize. You have posted many of these "H just did XYZ and he NEVER does that, what does it mean?" posts. And we have explained to you that it doesn't really mean anything, he's just trying to maintain a little control over you and temp check to see if you're still Plan B.
So this comes out of no where nearly 4 months later?
He does it all the time. I'm surprised you don't see it. You make a lot of posts like this.
SIDENOTE - LH, I'm not spinning just completely perplexed. Puzzled.
That's exactly what LH means by spinning. If and when you drop the rope and he says/ does stuff like this, it will be water off a duck's back. You won't even think about it because it'll mean nothing to you. You won't post about it because you'll assign no significance to it. The fact that you've got to flip it and turn it and decipher it and examine it and post about it means one thing- you are still SPINNING. And you're in denial about it, and I think that's part of your struggle. First, accept that you're spinning over EVERYTHING from your H whether good, bad or indifferent. THEN you can work on dropping the rope.
KK,
Its really interesting what gets you angry. You seemed to be bothered only mildly about the affair but him lying about his whereabouts and him texting you while you are away and offers you dog treats gets you really angry???
On a sound note job and cadet I think the site has been hacked. I can't get on from my phone or computer but can from my IPAD. I know Ginger can't get on at all. Could be why it's so slow on the board.
LH, whoever the site admin is needs to renew the security certificate-- it has expired and so lots of browsers aren't letting folks visit because of the security risk. (I know very little about this, am sure others know more but that is what it says when I log on.)
KK, sorry to hijack... hope you are doing OK.
He texted you while he was away and made dog treats, which are treats for the dog.....
and you are perplexed, angry, and puzzled? How is that NOT spinning. ANyone who thought "I know it 100% means nothing" would not be perplexed, angry, and puzzled over treats for the dog and texts while you are away. You wouldn't think twice about it
I don't know --- I feel different about this.
YES, I know in the past I would be totally spinning. I could feel my anxiety really spiking... questioning everything.
When the text came across about the dog treats... I was like "eh... WTH?"... "hmmmm"... okay and went right back to what I was doing. My anxiety didn't spike. I didn't spend the next hour trying to figure out what it all meant.
Ginger - he isn't at all bonded with my dog. He isn't the least bit interested in my dog. Now, he isn't mean to my dog but he wouldn't go out of his way.
I don't get it... but its not for me to get. But, yes it did get my attention... was he going to follow up? PLUS I totally know myself and its like the text comes through and its still a bit like a drug... oh, good today's fix just came in, he's still there. <<<< That's not me spinning its me understanding the pathways that are firing in my brain.
Work is a train wreck this week --- so hopefully I will be to busy to realize he will be at the house tomorrow.
Lol. You are spinning trying to convince us you are not spinning. I think part of the problem is that you are still running in denial. I am really hoping he doesn't bring the treats because I think that will majorly set you back.
I don't know --- I feel different about this.
YES, I know in the past I would be totally spinning. I could feel my anxiety really spiking... questioning everything.
When the text came across about the dog treats... I was like "eh... WTH?"... "hmmmm"... okay and went right back to what I was doing. My anxiety didn't spike. I didn't spend the next hour trying to figure out what it all meant.
Ginger - he isn't at all bonded with my dog. He isn't the least bit interested in my dog. Now, he isn't mean to my dog but he wouldn't go out of his way.
I don't get it... but its not for me to get. But, yes it did get my attention... was he going to follow up? PLUS I totally know myself and its like the text comes through and its still a bit like a drug... oh, good today's fix just came in, he's still there. <<<< That's not me spinning its me understanding the pathways that are firing in my brain.
Work is a train wreck this week --- so hopefully I will be to busy to realize he will be at the house tomorrow.
KC, two things. If you try to apply logic to his actions you will be confused, every time! WASs/WSs are the most illogical creatures on the planet. They run high on emotionally charged actions. Remember, I warned you that as you got better at NC he'd begin to reach out more and more. Even WASs/WSs that are deep into a relationship with the OP do not like the feeling of loss of control over their LBS. That is where the power of NC/LRT comes in! Suddenly they are snapping their fingers and the LBS isn't jumping. But I will warn you, the minute you do jump as his snap, then he will retreat again secure in the knowledge that he could change his mind and have you back at his own whim.
I do also want to encourage you to continue to move forward! Mistakes in DBing are common. The LBSs that persevere through the mistakes, get up and dust themselves off after a fall and continue to move forward, are the ones that go on to an awesome life...with or without their flaky WAS!!
You can do this. While it is frustrating, both to yourself and us, at the slowness of your progress, I do believe you are making progress! That is better than the alternative.
Lol. You are spinning trying to convince us you are not spinning. I think part of the problem is that you are still running in denial. I am really hoping he doesn't bring the treats because I think that will majorly set you back.
Alright - I accept it for what it is.
Busy at work trying not to look at the clock or think about him being at the house.
Nothing I can do anyway about whether or not he leaves the treats. I never reminded him of his offer months ago... and I will not mention it again.
Nothing I can do anyway about whether or not he leaves the treats. I never reminded him of his offer months ago... and I will not mention it again.
Ok KK let's play this one out and say that your STBXH leaves the dog treats. Let's say that they are the best fuching dog treats on this side of the Mississippi. What changes?
STBXH files for separation
STBXH buys house
STBXH in another relationship while legally married
STBXH stiffs your son on two very important days for him
STBXH brings dog treats
When we look at actions. Which are more powerful?
Makes the dog treats kind of silly right?
Nothing I can do anyway about whether or not he leaves the treats. I never reminded him of his offer months ago... and I will not mention it again.
Ok KK let's play this one out and say that your STBXH leaves the dog treats. Let's say that they are the best fuching dog treats on this side of the Mississippi. What changes?
STBXH files for separation
STBXH buys house
STBXH in another relationship while legally married
STBXH stiffs your son on two very important days for him
STBXH brings dog treats
When we look at actions. Which are more powerful?
Makes the dog treats kind of silly right?
^^^ I"m not sure what this was all about. I just wrote - it is what is it and I wasn't mentioning the treats again.
Clearly his actions are not consistent.
He lies. He is rude. He feels he can come and go. He refuses to meet up for documents but then can turn around and tell me how much I'm holding things up and blame me.
The dog treats are to throw me off... to appease his guilt that he had at the moment... idk. I realize it doesn't matter.
The dog treats are to throw me off... to appease his guilt that he had at the moment... idk. I realize it doesn't matter.
That's why I wrote it! So you are not thrown off by dog treats. Nothing to see here.
I can read your thoughts and I don't want you getting stuck on dog treats.
I won't lie - it felt weird that he was here when I was not. Like creepy weird....
It felt weirder that he couldn't text that he got the stuff picked up - thanks. Nothing. That's what I expected he would do... still felt weird.
He left the dog treats.
The polite person in me wants to let him know thank you. But, I'm sure that the wrong thing to do.... so I will maintain radio silence.
The polite person in me wants to let him know thank you.
THAT'S what LH was trying to get you to see. You are right, no need to thank him. WIth all of this:
STBXH files for separation
STBXH buys house
STBXH in another relationship while legally married
STBXH stiffs your son on two very important days for him
He doesn't deserve to get a thank you for......dog treats.
Well I am glad your dog got her/his treats. Maybe he's a great guy after all. (insert LH eye roll)
If you thank him he will tell the OW and they will get a good laugh about it.
Trust me that will happen.
The polite person in me wants to let him know thank you. But, I'm sure that the wrong thing to do.... so I will maintain radio silence.
I recognize that I should not do this.... :-) But, I still write thank you's on home made cards when people just stop by for a visit. I know that's rare thing... but its who I've always been.
Oh, I totally get I'm the brunt of every stupid joke between them.... so why in the world would he even want to leave the treats in the first place. You think that would have gotten up OW's skirt that he owes my dog nothing.
Oh well---- OVER AND DONE WITH.
At least the dog doesn't understand the drama but will appreciate the treats.... dehydrated liver...
Oh, I totally get I'm the brunt of every stupid joke between them.... so why in the world would he even want to leave the treats in the first place. You think that would have gotten up OW's skirt that he owes my dog nothing.
Spinning like a top!
KC, there was some ulterior motive. He's a slimy, lying, adulterous sun-of-a-gun so let's not assume he's suddenly being nice because that is highly doubtful. He's probably trying to butter you up for an easier/ cheaper divorce. Until you are divorced, EVERY SINGLE TIME he does something that appears nice I would suggest you automatically assume there is a hidden agenda behind it. Because there is. The best response is no response.
Right?
THE BEST RESPONSE IS NO RESPONSE.
Not just to this, to EVERYTHING he says or does.
KC, there was some ulterior motive. He's a slimy, lying, adulterous sun-of-a-gun so let's not assume he's suddenly being nice because that is highly doubtful. He's probably trying to butter you up for an easier/ cheaper divorce. Until you are divorced, EVERY SINGLE TIME he does something that appears nice I would suggest you automatically assume there is a hidden agenda behind it. Because there is. The best response is no response.
Right?
THE BEST RESPONSE IS NO RESPONSE.
Not just to this, to EVERYTHING he says or does.
Yes - I will ignore.
And, you right. He is wanting something?
I have been so incredibly agreeable. I mean what he came and took from the house today was not truly of any value. We are talking a very rusted... incredibly rusted leg trap. A small amount of scrap wood - hardly nothing. A piece of wood board about 4ft x 3ft. A few metal brackets - to hold studs... like 5. An old ball cap. a paint roller. A water pump that probably cost us $100 and we only used a couple of times.
I didn't need that stuff. I had it set aside with some barrier fence and decorative fence. None of it I was keeping so of course "nice" me 4 weeks ago asked if he wanted it. He replied that he did.
I should have just taken it to Goodwill and said F it....
He is just going to continue to walk over my good nature.
BUT - I'm done.
Anything else he feels he has at the house... to bad... you've been here multiple times.
BUT - I'm done.
Anything else he feels he has at the house... to bad... you've been here multiple times.
-pumps fist into air!-
This was such a draining day.
I guess I must be having a lot of expectations that I'm not acknowledging if I'm feeling so tired and wiped from an experience I wasn't even tech part of... I wasn't at the house today. Maybe that's why I feel more vulnerable??? Am I just not comfortable with the realization he was in my home when I was not?
Just had to plan a last minute 4hr trip to S19 in college... he needs some things that can't wait until I'm back from my trip. Tomorrow will he a long day.
Kk,
This is not normal and why we have asked you many times to seek therapy. He came to your house to pick up some stuff and left some dog treats. This should not wipe you out. There should be zero expectations from this man other then to screw you over.
I'm recognizing my thought process and ownership.
I didn't say I was right to think these things.
I've not really had so much anxiety lately but when I did I would ask myself a series of questions trying to figure out where it was coming from.
I'm also keenly aware of other things going on in my life and how that is impacting my current situation. It didn't help when a coworker came up today and suddenly said "must be so lonely in your house these days". Completely innocent but hit like a ton of bricks. I accept that timing of all of this bites... ie S19 off to college, covid keeping everything limited. My womans group hasn't met in over 6mo... coming home to an empty house is compounding things.
I'm working through my mental exhaustion for the day.... wrestling with my need to say thank you... knowing I also owe him nothing, that what works is counter intuitive so don't do what your brain is firing about, to I wish this paperwork was done because I'm just sick and tired of it, not looking forward to a 4hr drive today... to really??? Awake at 3am again today.
I think the the biggest gain I've made is sitting more with my feelings and thoughts and not acting on them immediately which I would have done in the past. Asking myself more where is this coming from...
KK,
I do have empathy for you in that it is a horrible time for you to be going through this with your son moving out and COVID. Life will present you with people and circumstances to show you where you are not free. Now is a good time to get comfortable being alone. We are tough on you but I do see some very small progress. Without IC this will take longer but you will get through it.
Did your dog enjoy the treats?
I'm recognizing my thought process and ownership.
I didn't say I was right to think these things.
I've not really had so much anxiety lately but when I did I would ask myself a series of questions trying to figure out where it was coming from.
I'm also keenly aware of other things going on in my life and how that is impacting my current situation. It didn't help when a coworker came up today and suddenly said "must be so lonely in your house these days". Completely innocent but hit like a ton of bricks. I accept that timing of all of this bites... ie S19 off to college, covid keeping everything limited. My womans group hasn't met in over 6mo... coming home to an empty house is compounding things.
I'm working through my mental exhaustion for the day.... wrestling with my need to say thank you... knowing I also owe him nothing, that what works is counter intuitive so don't do what your brain is firing about, to I wish this paperwork was done because I'm just sick and tired of it, not looking forward to a 4hr drive today... to really??? Awake at 3am again today.
I think the the biggest gain I've made is sitting more with my feelings and thoughts and not acting on them immediately which I would have done in the past. Asking myself more where is this coming from...
I think I've mentioned my aunt before to you. 35 years ago my uncle cheated on her with her best friend who was also a neighbor (lived right across the street). My aunt reminded me a lot of you. Was in denial for a long time until she could no longer deny what EVERY ONE else was seeing. She ended up in the hospital with a complete and utter mental breakdown.
When she got out she was advised by medical doctors to go into counseling. They explained to her that the trauma she had experienced was not only affecting her mental and emotional health, but her physical health, No one called it this back then, but if it were to happen today her doctor's would say she suffered from PTSD.
KC, getting evaluated for PTSD is something I highly recommend you do. You've told us how this is all causing you physical problems, and we are witness to the mental and emotional distress.
Here are a list of PTSD symptoms:
Behavioral: agitation, irritability, hostility, hypervigilance, self-destructive behavior, or social isolation
Psychological: flashback, fear, severe anxiety, or mistrust
Mood: loss of interest or pleasure in activities, guilt, or loneliness
Sleep: insomnia or nightmares
Also common: emotional detachment or unwanted thoughts
You cannot self diagnose this, and obviously none of us are qualified to diagnose you, but that list seems pretty similar to many of things you have stated you are experiencing.
No one is above IC. Heck, I was the most IC adverse person in the world 3 years ago. Now I see its power to transform the thinking of a person. I had deeply held personal attitudes that were completely upended in IC and replaced with new ways of thinking. I think your fear would be erased as soon as you found a good IC.
I understand the concern, truly.
But, honestly I feel way more in charge of my emotions now than 3mo ago. Sure I get biuts of anger, sadness, frustration and confusion. There are big chunks of my day where this doesnt even cross my mind.
I'm totally getting the brain addiction thing. And, realize that I have weird calms after he texts no matter what its about... my brain got its fix. I'm working on recognizing that and new ways to train my brain so not to recieve or make sure I'm associating it with something else....
I'm no where near a breakdown... not now anyway... maybe months ago.
I'm learning to manage and understand anxiety that has happened... now I'm working through frustration.
I'm keenly aware of counter conditioning and behavior modification.
Hanging with S19 for an hour.
Well sailing in Mexico was AWESOME!!!
Seeing a dear close friend again in person after years was priceless. Meeting new friends.
GOSH, it was hot. The water felt good. Local eats!!!
I learned to tack AND took the wheel for an hour. Miss it already. I texted pics to my SS20 with my pics of my sailing adventures. (SS20 loves to sail). He followed up at the end of the weekend that he went camping in Yellowstone. I asked if he saw bears - which he had, and the geyser - which he said he had not. It was a nice chat and told him to have a great week.
OMG - the stories we have already embellished where we have become legends amongst ourselves are priceless and amazing. Lots of pictures!
Back home in my empty house. This morning was the worst I've had in a long time. It was like being buried under a ton of bricks.
H texted twice while I was out of the country last Friday - basically wanting to meet this morning. After I hadn't replied he texted again just before midnight on Sunday - "you have yet to reply". A few hours later I just texted "I'm out of the country, maybe 10am?". His only response was "ok, then another day".
My head hurts - I really want to text him and chat - talk about whether he likes the transition lenses he has because I need new glasses, ask about his holiday weekend, ask if there was anything that I could have done that could have saved this M, try opening up and being vulnerable with him.
^^^^ none of that is productive or helpful. So I do nothing.
I'm getting ready to tackle laundry. I need to get my focus elsewhere.
So came home with a raging eyelid infection... was already on antibiotics when it started. My eye looks horrendous.
Not to mention its painful. Picking up new antibiotics today hoping it helps.
First day back to work... its busy busy busy.
Being back in the house has been incredibly rough. I got nothing accomplished yesterday.
So came home with a raging eyelid infection... was already on antibiotics when it started. My eye looks horrendous.
Not to mention its painful. Picking up new antibiotics today hoping it helps.
Oof! Hope you feel better. I bet it was rough coming home to an empty house, but glad to hear you had fun, and glad also you didn't give in and get into a live visit / call / text exchange. Hang in there!
Eyelid is still painful -enough to make sleeping difficult but infection is slowly getting better.
Work has been busy and steady. Going to a co-workers wedding today.
Hopefully weather will cooperate tomorrow and I can get the yard mowed - hate that chore. Not really much else going on. Now that I'm back from Mexico the plan was to tackle my SD18's old room.
The house is terribly quiet and lonely --- and I'm an introvert who enjoys down time at home... so this is all new territory for me. Its just painfully quiet.
S19 is doing awesome at school. He started his part time job and LOVES it. School's kinda of a bust as all his classes are online so I'm like why am I paying all this money for him to live there??? But it really is time for him to leave the nest and living on campus in a dorm is a great transition to real adult life.
YEAH - eyelid is finally showing signs of improvement!
In continued efforts in self improvement I took the Meyers Briggs --- I am "the defender" as ISFJ-T.
Its definitely me.
87% of Turbulent Defenders say they usually blame themselves first when something goes wrong, compared to 55% of Assertive Defenders.^^^Absolutely me... Not just in my M but in my career as well.
Defenders are true altruists, meeting kindness with kindness-in-excess and engaging the work and people they believe in with enthusiasm and generosity.^^^ Yup --- definitely me. Always trying to do for others not just meeting their needs but clearly to meet my need to be kind and generous. Yup, I'm the person on the bus leaving a book behind with a note how much I enjoyed it and want to pass it on.
Reluctant to Change – These challenges can be particularly hard to address since Defender personalities value traditions and history highly in their decisions. A situation sometimes needs to reach a breaking point before Defenders are persuaded by circumstance, or the strong personality of a loved one, to alter course.^^^ Again, very me. Don't get me wrong I like to do new things. In fact I frequently book them when planning our vacations or adventures. I have an extreme fear of heights but I specially booked the Costa Rica trip with the Arenal Sky Adventures Zip Line as a family thing. Go google it... 600ft up in the air... 2400ft in length... up to 43mi/hr. Yup, I screamed like a girl but I did it. The family loves pushing me and watching me squirm but the point is I did it.
When H got a motorbike it was outside my comfort zone but I was warming up. I even made him take me to buy my own helmet that would fit better. I just require more "hand holding". Like my H saying hey do you think you would bike with me X? And, even if I said not today that he would ask again. I just need more time to warm up and get comfortable. As stupid as this all is I had already 2 things my list this summer before BD. One was taking H to a fun, unique resturant on some winding roads about an hour away and to also have him take me 2hr each way to a fun yarn store in the next state over as another motorbike trip. The second was having H take me fishing twice on his boat this summer. SOOOOO... I was getting there.
I can see the flip side of how H felt --- his thinking was if he had to ask me more than once then I was never really interested in it so he just bailed and formed an opinion how our interests are too different. I tried to validate when he stated his feelings on this ((((this was a long awhile ago)))). I understand why he would feel this way. I wonder if he was able to hear my side... needing more encouragement???
Long before I took this quiz I already recognized that I internalized H's criticism and anger to mean that I was "less than" and it further sunk my self esteem. I see now that for my H the criticism and anger were defense mechanisms for the deep seated hurt/pain he was internalizing as rejection from me.
Anyway reading about ISFJ-T --- that is who we are. We internalize criticism. I already had come to an understanding of this about me but it was good to read about.
I sooooo want to print this out for my H to read. Frankly, I have great interests if he would do the test too... it might help me understand him even better. HOWEVER, I know this is soo not the time. Yes, LH I can hear you loud and clear. H is still dealing with lots of anger and resentment and can't even see me for who I truly am these days. So its all under wraps... keeping it all to myself.
As hard and painful as it is to be in this miserable quiet house I continue to keep the focus on me and work on self improvement.
KC -
Glad to hear your eye is feeling better!
Is there something that you can do for yourself to make the house more comfortable/less miserable? So it feels like more of "your" space and less of "used to be our" space. Make a cool new knitting nook/area? Organize the kitchen/closets to only your tastes and no one else's? (I know you've said you like organizing a lot - me too - so therapeutic!)
MB tests are cool - it's good that you identify how your personality type contributed to issues in this relationship. I'd encourage you to use that knowledge on what you can do differently in a NEW relationship and what you've learned about yourself (NOT what you've learned about your H/M). Have you thought about how your type affected other relationships before H? See any patterns?
I sooooo want to print this out for my H to read. Frankly, I have great interests if he would do the test too... it might help me understand him even better. HOWEVER, I know this is soo not the time. Yes, LH I can hear you loud and clear. H is still dealing with lots of anger and resentment and can't even see me for who I truly am these days. So its all under wraps... keeping it all to myself.
If you need to send him that to explain your eternal and unconditional love for him in order to feel you left no stone unturned and to get closure, then you should do it.
What if you send it to him, he reads it, and nothing changes.
What are you going to do then?
I guess what I'm asking is "where is the finish line?" At what point do you feel you will trust that he fully understands how you feel and still chooses not to reconcile?
I hate to ask you that question, but I also don't want to see you forever stuck.
There is nothing you can do! You need to surrender to that, grieve it and find peace with it! Fighting against it sets you up as their adversary, pushes them together and you away. If you continue to actively try to disrupt the affair and get your H back, you will only dig your hole deeper and deeper, and that will be a debt that will take you a long time to recover from.
YEAH - eyelid is finally showing signs of improvement!
In continued efforts in self improvement I took the Meyers Briggs --- I am "the defender" as ISFJ-T.
Its definitely me.
87% of Turbulent Defenders say they usually blame themselves first when something goes wrong, compared to 55% of Assertive Defenders.^^^Absolutely me... Not just in my M but in my career as well.
Defenders are true altruists, meeting kindness with kindness-in-excess and engaging the work and people they believe in with enthusiasm and generosity.^^^ Yup --- definitely me. Always trying to do for others not just meeting their needs but clearly to meet my need to be kind and generous. Yup, I'm the person on the bus leaving a book behind with a note how much I enjoyed it and want to pass it on.
Reluctant to Change – These challenges can be particularly hard to address since Defender personalities value traditions and history highly in their decisions. A situation sometimes needs to reach a breaking point before Defenders are persuaded by circumstance, or the strong personality of a loved one, to alter course.^^^ Again, very me. Don't get me wrong I like to do new things. In fact I frequently book them when planning our vacations or adventures. I have an extreme fear of heights but I specially booked the Costa Rica trip with the Arenal Sky Adventures Zip Line as a family thing. Go google it... 600ft up in the air... 2400ft in length... up to 43mi/hr. Yup, I screamed like a girl but I did it. The family loves pushing me and watching me squirm but the point is I did it.
When H got a motorbike it was outside my comfort zone but I was warming up. I even made him take me to buy my own helmet that would fit better. I just require more "hand holding". Like my H saying hey do you think you would bike with me X? And, even if I said not today that he would ask again. I just need more time to warm up and get comfortable. As stupid as this all is I had already 2 things my list this summer before BD. One was taking H to a fun, unique resturant on some winding roads about an hour away and to also have him take me 2hr each way to a fun yarn store in the next state over as another motorbike trip. The second was having H take me fishing twice on his boat this summer. SOOOOO... I was getting there.
I can see the flip side of how H felt --- his thinking was if he had to ask me more than once then I was never really interested in it so he just bailed and formed an opinion how our interests are too different. I tried to validate when he stated his feelings on this ((((this was a long awhile ago)))). I understand why he would feel this way. I wonder if he was able to hear my side... needing more encouragement???
Long before I took this quiz I already recognized that I internalized H's criticism and anger to mean that I was "less than" and it further sunk my self esteem. I see now that for my H the criticism and anger were defense mechanisms for the deep seated hurt/pain he was internalizing as rejection from me.
Anyway reading about ISFJ-T --- that is who we are. We internalize criticism. I already had come to an understanding of this about me but it was good to read about.
I sooooo want to print this out for my H to read. Frankly, I have great interests if he would do the test too... it might help me understand him even better. HOWEVER, I know this is soo not the time. Yes, LH I can hear you loud and clear. H is still dealing with lots of anger and resentment and can't even see me for who I truly am these days. So its all under wraps... keeping it all to myself.
As hard and painful as it is to be in this miserable quiet house I continue to keep the focus on me and work on self improvement.
Interesting: I am The Executive - ESTJ, though I am more of a Omnivert than a true Extrovert. so I can also be a bit of a ISTJ.
So if you look at the one we are opposites in: Thinking vs. Feeling then you can see why you and I have had such a difference of opinion. What many of us tried to get you to see is that acting on Feelings will often lead you down the wrong path. In fact, letting your emotions rule your actions is diametrically opposed to what you should be doing for DBing! This is why we say that DBing is counter-intuitive. Your feelings will make you think that what you are doing is wrong....because it feels wrong. "What do you mean that I can't tell the man I love that I love him?" Feels wrong.....but it is the RIGHT thing to do if your ultimate goal is to save your marriage. It may not result in saving your marriage, but it gives you a better chance than does following what FEELS right.
As far as the -T, I don't remember dealing with that when I did my Myers-Briggs assessment as part of management training for work (it has been several years), but I looked it up. Assertive vs Turbulent. I would definitely be a -A!. But I can see that you are -T which makes sense based on what we've observed here. The problem I see that might arise in for the Turbulent is that stress gets them motivated. The problem in our situations, as we have stated many times, it that often you are better off doing NOTHING than something. Turbulent individuals react to stress by doing. KC, this is a huge opportunity for you. Since as a -T stress motivates you....remember that doing nothing IS doing something!
I personally love Myer-Briggs. Like you I think my Myers-Briggs type is spot on in explaining how I view and look at things.
If you need to send him that to explain your eternal and unconditional love for him in order to feel you left no stone unturned and to get closure, then you should do it.
What if you send it to him, he reads it, and nothing changes.
I think the reason I mentioned you in my post is that I KNOW that doing such a move is non-productive. He doesn't care anymore what got him to this point. He's done. He's numb. He has this new life and its amazing.
I think that's why I post here. I have this feeling and desire but its the dumbest thing to do in the big picture so I post here to get it out of my system???
****
Its very interesting that I got drunk called yesterday.... AND, freaky enough his statements to me were in direct line to what I posted here. Weird.
His words were slurred... and overexaggerated "HOOOOWWW ARRREEE YYOOOUUU". You went out of town last weekend. I don't know where you went or who you were with. Did you have a good time? What one thing did you do outside your comfort zone? Where did you go? Were with you B? You were with B weren't you? You need to do more things outside your comfort zone. You have to let go of your fears. Then I got more "HOOOWWWW AARRREEEE YOOOUUUU".
Its just weird how I just posted about my need for more "hand holding", "encouraging", "pushing" me and ultimately despite dragging my feet I really wanted to do motorbike trips with H and fishing, etc. AND, I would probably scuba dive with him at some point too... I see his argument that he felt I didn't really want to because I wasn't all in the very first time so I must not really want too....
So he is drunk and telling me I need to get outside my comfort zone ---- why? what does it matter to him?
Oh well. Moving on. I'm sure he has no memory of making that call.
So you picked up the phone ?
Ignore or block him. Pretty immature!
Who is B?
Ignore or block him. Pretty immature!
Who is B?
H is at a 10 day veteran retreat. This is his 3rd year at this one. Its gets real for these men. My H and his army bff drink and smoke cigars heavily the entire week. Now during our M H would occassionaly drink and sometimes get drunk but for the most part he lived low key but this week was the week he would completely let loose.
It was this time last year that his army bff threw out PTSD to me in regards to my H. I didn't know how to take that and we had been drinking at the time so my response was probably not the best. I do know that my response really upset my H but I only learned of him being upset at BD months later.
So I know it can get pretty raw... and pretty stupid during this week.
So I'm not holding it to mean anything but I also know he will 100%have no memory of it either so sweeping it under the rug.
B is my male bff of 40yr.... our high school English teacher gave us nicknames that we use to this day with each other!!! H has never met B in person but before BD was friends with him on FB and had some casual banter with him. B lives several states away. He was in town a few years ago for a weekend for family stuff and asked me to meet up with him at a local bar one evening for drinks and catch up. I remember telling my H where and what I was doing but things got held up and I was home at 11pm instead of 10pm.... UGH... he was so angry/jealous. I had even let him know I was running late and we weren't alone at the bar as another high school class mate joined us.
Weirder is when H BD me at one point he said "you can go be with B now". WHAT?? I have NEVER been with B romantically at all in 40yr. Our relationship is more like brother/sister for 40yr.
Anyway, I found to be more like comedic karma that after minimal contact for 3 months his drunk message to me was I needed to get outside my comfort zone more. Oh well....
So you picked up the phone ?
No
So you picked up the phone ?
No
Pumping fist into air!
Interesting: I am The Executive - ESTJ, though I am more of a Omnivert than a true Extrovert. so I can also be a bit of a ISTJ.
So if you look at the one we are opposites in: Thinking vs. Feeling then you can see why you and I have had such a difference of opinion. What many of us tried to get you to see is that acting on Feelings will often lead you down the wrong path. In fact, letting your emotions rule your actions is diametrically opposed to what you should be doing for DBing! This is why we say that DBing is counter-intuitive. Your feelings will make you think that what you are doing is wrong....because it feels wrong. "What do you mean that I can't tell the man I love that I love him?" Feels wrong.....but it is the RIGHT thing to do if your ultimate goal is to save your marriage. It may not result in saving your marriage, but it gives you a better chance than does following what FEELS right.
As far as the -T, I don't remember dealing with that when I did my Myers-Briggs assessment as part of management training for work (it has been several years), but I looked it up. Assertive vs Turbulent. I would definitely be a -A!. But I can see that you are -T which makes sense based on what we've observed here. The problem I see that might arise in for the Turbulent is that stress gets them motivated. The problem in our situations, as we have stated many times, it that often you are better off doing NOTHING than something. Turbulent individuals react to stress by doing. KC, this is a huge opportunity for you. Since as a -T stress motivates you....remember that doing nothing IS doing something!
I personally love Myer-Briggs. Like you I think my Myers-Briggs type is spot on in explaining how I view and look at things.
I think it really explains why I am so quick to own my side of street and taking responsibility for my mistakes in our M. How I carry such a heavy burden in owning all my mistakes. Not in a way that frees him of his mistakes but clearly really holding on to my short comings.
It also explains why I am constantly pouring my emotions out here... I feel get it out here and not where you really want to put it.
That being said H has texted me since Friday - looking for some of his army stuff. What he asked about I know 100% was packed with his clothes and stuff from the closet. BUT, I also know he is looking for his army coins and those I think are in my jewelry drawer. I waited 36hr before letting him know that I did find X.
H actually texted and asked "could I get you to bring those to the campsite for me?" an hour away.
Of course in my head I stated. OK, this is is WHAT I want to do. I want to say that yes, I would take the time time out of my day to bring this for you but I want something in return. I want to do this workshop and would like you to do it with me." NOW, that's what I wanted to say to him. But, then I stated out loud (cause I live alone)... the right thing is the opposite thing of what I want to do... I want to bring him his stuff because I want to please him. But, that just reinforces I'm low value. The right thing to do is to say 'no'.
Grateful, its Monday and work is crazy busy so I don't have time to think how dumb this weekend was.
In continued efforts in self improvement I took the Meyers Briggs --- I am "the defender" as ISFJ-T.
Its definitely me.
Always good to learn more about yourself. Myers Briggs was interesting for me because it helped me to realize that a lot of my behavior is not "weird" but is specific to who I am. And that there is a whole segment of the population that is similar. I'm an ENFP and we really struggle with mundane tasks. We want everything to be new and exciting. So things like laundry and yardwork are seriously difficult to do. M-B helped me to realize that there wasn't something "wrong" with me, it's just who I am. And I just have to put forth more effort to overcome my lack of interest in mundane activities.
When H got a motorbike it was outside my comfort zone but I was warming up.
I can see the flip side of how H felt --- his thinking was if he had to ask me more than once then I was never really interested in it so he just bailed and formed an opinion how our interests are too different.
I sooooo want to print this out for my H to read.
Frankly, I have great interests if he would do the test too... it might help me understand him even better.
I can sympathize with your desire to "figure H out" (we all go through it to some extent early on) but he's gone, in an R with another woman and it's no longer your concern. Please grasp that and understand that the BEST thing you can do for you AND for him is to let go. I know it's hard but it's your path out of this mess. This is you trying to hang onto that rope rather than drop it.
H is still dealing with lots of anger and resentment and can't even see me for who I truly am these days.
I don't really get the impression that he's angry and resentful. He just sounds "done". There used to be someone here years ago who would often say "do you know what the opposite of love is? It's not hate, it's ambivalence". It's not caring, and that's where your H is.
H actually texted and asked "could I get you to bring those to the campsite for me?" an hour away.
Of course in my head I stated. OK, this is is WHAT I want to do. I want to say that yes, I would take the time time out of my day to bring this for you but I want something in return. I want to do this workshop and would like you to do it with me." NOW, that's what I wanted to say to him. But, then I stated out loud (cause I live alone)... the right thing is the opposite thing of what I want to do... I want to bring him his stuff because I want to please him. But, that just reinforces I'm low value. The right thing to do is to say 'no'.
That desire to negotiate is just another way you're hanging onto the rope. And I sincerely hope you didn't reply to his request, that was very rude of him. I mean... WOW. He's got some cajones, that's for sure.
Always good to learn more about yourself. Myers Briggs was interesting for me because it helped me to realize that a lot of my behavior is not "weird" but is specific to who I am. And that there is a whole segment of the population that is similar. I'm an ENFP and we really struggle with mundane tasks. We want everything to be new and exciting. So things like laundry and yardwork are seriously difficult to do. M-B helped me to realize that there wasn't something "wrong" with me, it's just who I am. And I just have to put forth more effort to overcome my lack of interest in mundane activities.
I think that's why I was curious about what my H would be --- mostly to look back and see how that fit into our conflict or challenges or more importantly why he felt the way that he did.
As you pointed out it makes zero sense to go down that road. To me its more reflective curiosity???
H is still dealing with lots of anger and resentment and can't even see me for who I truly am these days.
I don't really get the impression that he's angry and resentful. He just sounds "done". There used to be someone here years ago who would often say "do you know what the opposite of love is? It's not hate, it's ambivalence". It's not caring, and that's where your H is.
I'm sure you are right. Oh, I know there was TONS of anger in the beginning. Raging at me in person, via text or on the phone. There hasn't been that for some time now. Frankly, I have not physically seen my H in over 3months... perhaps a few texts from him every week or so... I do know he admitted to being numb and just not caring any more about this or that in our M. And, he was clear, though raging at the time last March when he screamed that there was no hope for this M when I filed for legal S.
I'm working really hard at keeping the focus on me. Making plans for myself. Keep moving forward and NOT worrying about what he is or isn't doing. Its not easy but I will say I'm not nearly as emotional now as I once was months ago?
I know I have not dropped that dang rope 100% yet.
H actually texted and asked "could I get you to bring those to the campsite for me?" an hour away.
Of course in my head I stated. OK, this is is WHAT I want to do. I want to say that yes, I would take the time time out of my day to bring this for you but I want something in return. I want to do this workshop and would like you to do it with me." NOW, that's what I wanted to say to him. But, then I stated out loud (cause I live alone)... the right thing is the opposite thing of what I want to do... I want to bring him his stuff because I want to please him. But, that just reinforces I'm low value. The right thing to do is to say 'no'.
That desire to negotiate is just another way you're hanging onto the rope. And I sincerely hope you didn't reply to his request, that was very rude of him. I mean... WOW. He's got some cajones, that's for sure.
Yeah... I realize it as a rookie move but I just wanted to show my thought process. Recognizing how I want to respond to something, what I want out of something and then telling myself the option that is correct is the opposite of what I feel like doing.
I won't lie - once I told him I had the coins .... I was like - he is going to ask me to bring them to him at the campsite... and BOOM, he did. Yup, I still know my H.
I suppose he was drunk when he texted? I'm sure he knows what a bone head thing that was to do and it took liquid courage to be stupid enough so he would have something to blame.
2hr ago I got "sorry drunk texted last night"
^^^That was it.
Ignored.
Well this week has been rough.................... just feel the weight of bricks piled on top of me.
I did allow myself to respond to his "sorry drunk texted you" on Monday afternoon. I will NOT go down that road. That whole "could you bring me X" to the drunk call............ what I respond that I'm angry? He wins. I respond saying I understand? He wins.
My only win is to not respond at all. Which if you now know that I'm ISFJ-T.... I'm hard wired to show an over abundance of kindness. Accepting more than responsibility. Naturally reaching out and making amends would be what I would be doing.
So I struggle doing the opposite.
I just keep reminding myself that he does not value me. I'm acting like a low value person. He asks any favor of me in the future there is no thinking about it. Its a hard NO.
So I've got this under control so why do I feel like I've been beaten with a baseball bat and dragged behind a car for 50miles?
Well this week has been rough.................... just feel the weight of bricks piled on top of me.
I did allow myself to respond to his "sorry drunk texted you" on Monday afternoon. I will NOT go down that road. That whole "could you bring me X" to the drunk call............ what I respond that I'm angry? He wins. I respond saying I understand? He wins.
My only win is to not respond at all. Which if you now know that I'm ISFJ-T.... I'm hard wired to show an over abundance of kindness. Accepting more than responsibility. Naturally reaching out and making amends would be what I would be doing.
Remember the movie War Games? In the end Joshua learns that the only way to win the game (tic-tac-toe and thermal nuclear war) is to not play at all. This is what you've learned!
So I struggle doing the opposite.
We all do at first. For me the only question is why you still struggle this far along in your sitch? ISFJ-T is only part of it. But I refuse to let 4 or 5 letters define who I am! When it comes to Myers-Briggs and things like it, no one is that perfectly pigeon-holed. There are those that are into horoscopes (I prefer to call them horrorscopes). The problem with things like that is that people read them and allow it to inform their actions. Instead of doing what they should or know is right, regardless of what "category" they fit in.
So why is doing the best thing for your sitch still a struggle for you? Have you considered deep-diving that to understand why?
I just keep reminding myself that he does not value me. I'm acting like a low value person. He asks any favor of me in the future there is no thinking about it. Its a hard NO.
I would prefer that last line be "Its a hard IGNORE." As others have said, this guy is a piece of work. I think you are seeing his true nature come out. The man you thought you knew was an illusion. This is a truth you have to face. The man he is now is his true self. And it isn't a very attractive self at that.
So I've got this under control so why do I feel like I've been beaten with a baseball bat and dragged behind a car for 50miles?
PTSD. I've said it a dozen times in your threads if I've said it once.
So I struggle doing the opposite.
We all do at first. For me the only question is why you still struggle this far along in your sitch? ISFJ-T is only part of it. But I refuse to let 4 or 5 letters define who I am! When it comes to Myers-Briggs and things like it, no one is that perfectly pigeon-holed. There are those that are into horoscopes (I prefer to call them horrorscopes). The problem with things like that is that people read them and allow it to inform their actions. Instead of doing what they should or know is right, regardless of what "category" they fit in.
So why is doing the best thing for your sitch still a struggle for you? Have you considered deep-diving that to understand why?
I'm the girl you went to school with that was always full of hope and never gave up - regardless of circumstance. The forever optimist. Someone who saw something of value in everyone. Who beat the odds in getting into the professional school in 2yr instead of 4yr. Obstacles are to be overcome with a positive mindsets.
I can't give up hope.
I can't seem to medicate it out of me either.
Hope is keeping me stuck in wanting to save my M.
I need someone to beat the hope out of me
Ok I will try. The chances of you saving your marriage by your 1 year deadline is about .000000000001%
I will be honest that I haven't read your sitch but this stuck out to me.
[quote=Steve85]
I'm the girl you went to school with that was always full of hope and never gave up - regardless of circumstance. The forever optimist. Someone who saw something of value in everyone. Who beat the odds in getting into the professional school in 2yr instead of 4yr. Obstacles are to be overcome with a positive mindsets.
I can't give up hope.
I can't seem to medicate it out of me either.
Hope is keeping me stuck in wanting to save my M.
I need someone to beat the hope out of me
Old thought: Someone who saw something of value in everyone.
New thought: I see things in myself that is valuable
Old Thought: I can't give up hope.
New Thought: I can have hope that I will be the be okay and will never give up on myself. On my needs, my wants, etc.
Perhaps you were always taught to "Keep trying" or that your self worth was wrapped up in the works that you do. Things to maybe explore in IC.
So I took some initiative... reached out to an old high school friend who I haven't seen for a couple of years but maintain updates through FB.
I suggested meeting up with him and his wife next Friday as I will make plans to be in their city (about 1 1/2hr away).
He was super excited that I would suggest that ---- so next Friday it is!
He and his wife live near a bar I fell in love with in this town. They will have their fall drink menu out and I'm super excited. To be honest its a bar that my H and I went to during our anniversary trip last Oct. I'm really just excited to be able to go back and create some new memories there. I realize this could be a risky thing???
Anyway, soooo outside my norm to reach out to someone who I'm not particularly close to and suggest a get together so gooooo meeee!!!!
Sooooo.... tomorrow is the day.
I have not seen H in over 3months. Tomorrow morning he will be here to do the final financial run down... very meh at seeing him. IDK... weird like I want to see him so much and at the same time I really don't... that's a very weird feeling to sit with.
Of course I've got a killer day planned.... I will be getting my mammogram at 7:30am.... then meeting my H... my mom is bringing over lunch... then eye doc to get my new lenses so these old lady eyes can see ya better... then a nice long drive and a 3mile hike with my dog!!!
But, then on Friday its a trip up north meeting old high school friends for cocktails! Then Saturday my male bff who I just got back from sailing will be in my town for a quick family trip... dinner at our famous local pizza joint.
I won't lie... not one bit... as much as I'm filling my life with other stuff I still have big chunks of the day where I just miss my H. I tell myself I've given him time and space. I've done some really hard work on myself both inside and out. Isn't there even a tiny part of him that misses some tiny part of me??? <<< I know I'm not supposed to say this stuff, but I'm keeping it real. I still hope my H will want to take another look at the M,
Well this week has been rough.................... just feel the weight of bricks piled on top of me.
I did allow myself to respond to his "sorry drunk texted you" on Monday afternoon. I will NOT go down that road. That whole "could you bring me X" to the drunk call............ what I respond that I'm angry? He wins. I respond saying I understand? He wins.
My only win is to not respond at all. Which if you now know that I'm ISFJ-T.... I'm hard wired to show an over abundance of kindness. Accepting more than responsibility. Naturally reaching out and making amends would be what I would be doing.
Remember the movie War Games? In the end Joshua learns that the only way to win the game (tic-tac-toe and thermal nuclear war) is to not play at all. This is what you've learned!
So I struggle doing the opposite.
We all do at first. For me the only question is why you still struggle this far along in your sitch? ISFJ-T is only part of it. But I refuse to let 4 or 5 letters define who I am! When it comes to Myers-Briggs and things like it, no one is that perfectly pigeon-holed. There are those that are into horoscopes (I prefer to call them horrorscopes). The problem with things like that is that people read them and allow it to inform their actions. Instead of doing what they should or know is right, regardless of what "category" they fit in.
So why is doing the best thing for your sitch still a struggle for you? Have you considered deep-diving that to understand why?
I just keep reminding myself that he does not value me. I'm acting like a low value person. He asks any favor of me in the future there is no thinking about it. Its a hard NO.
I would prefer that last line be "Its a hard IGNORE." As others have said, this guy is a piece of work. I think you are seeing his true nature come out. The man you thought you knew was an illusion. This is a truth you have to face. The man he is now is his true self. And it isn't a very attractive self at that.
So I've got this under control so why do I feel like I've been beaten with a baseball bat and dragged behind a car for 50miles?
PTSD. I've said it a dozen times in your threads if I've said it once.
Ah, yes... then there is Steve keeping it real for me!
So... today was a good day. '
Knocked out the mammogram first thing.
Then H showed up and what should have took an hour went into 2hr. He was cold when he arrived but it didn't phase me. I'm sure he also had some anxiety about seeing me for the first time in over 3 months. He sort of small talked but I grabbed out papers and tried to get to work.
However, in my papers I had also mixed in accidentally info and adds on tear drop trailers... well H's eyes lit up. OH, you gonna buy a trailer? I said I was looking into it if I can find one within my budget and its something I can pull with my SUV. Well that opened up the flood gates ---- he starts talking this and that about the tent campers he is looking at versus the pop up campers. He did inform me that while I have a hitch/tow ability my SUV is not wired. Oh crud - I did not know that so then it was talking about wiring, etc.
He talked. I really listened.
Got back to financial paperwork. I needed to know if he agreed with the values I had listed. He tried to take a dig and state we had already agreed on values before I went and got an atty. I just said... hmmm.... and went on with the business at hand. Ultimately neither of us understood his pension stuff though I'm pretty sure I've got more of a grasp on it than he does.... and its worth WAY may than the 27k he thinks I'm owed.
It was a little daunting and crazy when you sit and look at the numbers and then cutting everything in half. I mumbled under my breath - it would just be easier to stay married... I really meant it. I was flustered at the situation but NOT at H. H asked what I said so I turned to him and stated this would all just easier if we stayed married and half smiled and half laughed. He stayed radio silent. I was like meh - he could have said something negative and mean such as complaining about me dragging this out and how there is zero hope for this marriage, etc. All the things he said in March. Instead he stayed quiet. I appreciate he didn't take my flustered comment and turn it around to hurt me.
We were both kind. No angry words. We got along well. Even with it came down to it and we couldn't figure out the true value of the pension we both just said the atty can figure it out or can go to forensic accountant if needed. H still hasn't gotten his own atty. I told him I would get all the paperwork to my atty on Friday.
He asked to use the bathroom - ok, no prob but why in the world does he still go the MBR bathroom??? Dude, gonna get real awkward one day when there is another guys stuff in there... lol! I just chalk it up that he is still comfortable in this house... this house that he had come to hate so much... he still doesn't feel like a guest apparently and use the guest bathroom. Just a huge funny observation!
He continued to chat. Nothing about R. Like I said this should have taken an hour and he drug it out to 2.
After he left I got some paperwork done. My mother brought over lunch and visited for awhile. I went to get my new glasses picked up and fitted. Did some shopping. Came home picked up the dog and went to the park in the next town over for a 3mil hike in the woods. Home now and settling in for a zoom session with friends and knitting.
Right now I feel okay with where things are at with H. I'm not panicked or having any anxeity BUT is that because I saw him today? My brain got its fix so its calm? I rationale enough to recognize why I may be so calm right now. The key will be remaining calm when I've had no contact for a week... that's where I need to get to. Where I'm still chill as the other side of the pillow after 7 days of radio silence. Hoping to get there.
Glad to have such a busy day.
Ah, yes... then there is Steve keeping it real for me!
Sorry. I just think you'd do yourself a lot of favor to admit that you may have a condition that is bigger than what you can handle yourself.
Right now I feel okay with where things are at with H. I'm not panicked or having any anxeity BUT is that because I saw him today? My brain got its fix so its calm?
Yes it is because your brain got its dopamine fix for the day. Same fix that texting with him and talking to him on phone gives you.
Your brain will never get over the highs of the dopamine hit, and the lows of the withdrawals until you quit cold-turkey.
Ah, yes... then there is Steve keeping it real for me!
Sorry. I just think you'd do yourself a lot of favor to admit that you may have a condition that is bigger than what you can handle yourself.
Right now I feel okay with where things are at with H. I'm not panicked or having any anxeity BUT is that because I saw him today? My brain got its fix so its calm?
Yes it is because your brain got its dopamine fix for the day. Same fix that texting with him and talking to him on phone gives you.
Your brain will never get over the highs of the dopamine hit, and the lows of the withdrawals until you quit cold-turkey.
I'm aware of that. I've got what I need to get to the atty. There is no reason for us to ever meet again. Anything I get from atty I can forward via email or actually mail to him.
Interesting tid bits from today's conversation:
1) When he moved out and was out of work due to covid he was at the family farm daily as he rewired the barn and put a new roof on. He became the favorite son again. I know it felt good to him. Comparison to when we married his relationship with his mom was extremely toxic. They became nearly besties during this time when he moved out. Well, he made a comment that he was not happy that his mother was at the campsite one day.... hmmmm...
2) He was not overly happy with his bff who is his army buddy and also at this retreat. He really complained about him and my H has NEVER done that before. He will point out his short comings - like he talks over people but they have always been super close. But, he was actually glad to see his bff to leave this visit... whoaa...
3) I was going over our assets - we have already divided up accounts and credit cards so marking those off as agreed. I then also confirmed that we have agreed on household items and that he has taken everything that he felt was his... he said "couldn't take one of the couches if I wanted too... my living room won't fit a couch"... hmmm... a little buyers remorse??? HIs house is litterally 900sq ft with tech only 1 bedroom with a big walk in closet with a loft. He bought this house for its garage --- big as the whole house with a hydrolic car lift in it. This is the second time I heard him complain about his house size....
^^^Maybe the grass is appearing less green?
Not focusing on it but just an observation. The focus has to stay on me. Got a male friend of mine help me set a new weight goal --- if I make this then I will weight less than I did when I graduated college.... holy crud this will be some hard work. :-) So he is going to lit a fire under my butt which means this weekend I'm going to have to come up with some new exercises as I've totally blown out my right elbow.
I've got to stop my brain taking hits off my H.
I work tomorrow then a 3 day weekend for me!!!!
Sounds like everything went pretty smoothly. The one hiccup you had was the "easier to stay married" comment which of course you never should have said out loud. I think you probably realize it was an intentional temperature check on your part, and it failed to yield the desired results just like the many other temperature checks.
Sounds like the two of you might be able to settle things amicably so that's good.
Keep up the GAL, you've got some good stuff planned
Sounds like everything went pretty smoothly. The one hiccup you had was the "easier to stay married" comment which of course you never should have said out loud. I think you probably realize it was an intentional temperature check on your part, and it failed to yield the desired results just like the many other temperature checks.
Sounds like the two of you might be able to settle things amicably so that's good.
Keep up the GAL, you've got some good stuff planned
It was completely involuntary... and mumbled to myself without realizing the company I was in. Trying to figure out the pension from what was provided was not lining up with what my H was stating that he was told when he asked for the info.
I wasn't even looking at him when I said. I was looking in the opposite direction and scrolling through a computer screen. So I knew he couldn't hear me because it was mumbled and not in his direction and he has hearing issues. When he asked what I said I truly wanted to say "oh nothing"... or "not important" but I felt the need to be honest rather than being accused of hiding things from him. When I said it louder so he could hear I didn't even look at him.
Yes, overall we are calm and polite. Not a wicked word between us so a far cry from 6 months ago when he was so angry and yelling all the time. Its just sad. But, it is what it is...
I do have a lot planned. I'm staying busy.
Made home made sugar cream pies today including pie crust from scratch... trying to find ways to stay busy!!!
Overall my mental attitude is meh right now. I had a very stressful situation at work last night and it kept me up and would let me sleep. Feel like I could burst out crying at any moment.
Trying to settle in and work on my gratitude journal.
For freaks sake I'm just overall scared and worried. I hate this part... the crash after the high.
I've got plans tonight... and I've got lots of yardwork to do tomorrow. Male bff is flying into my state today. Trying to make a list of what to do to keep each minute busy - I do not like where my mind is going today. At least I got the pies done but struggling with the rest of it.
This is just one day... I can make it through this one day.
Ok... I have to get out of this rut and continue to keep the focus on me.
I joined a dating site today. I'm completely up front that I am separated and I'm just looking to get out and have fun... nothing serious. I need to start living life.
Are you completely up front that you are separated and would run back to your husband in a heart beat?
Well KK there is an old saying "the fastest way to get over someone is to get under someone". Stay safe!
I had an amazing time out at the bar with friends last night!!!! It was awesome. I had a bit to much to drink. But, hopefully we can do it again. Male bff made it into town yesterday and to the bar last night.
As for the dating site, yes its plastered on my profile I'm separated. I will mislead no one. And, it's called dating. Just because I go out with someone doesn't mean I'm in a committed relationship with them. Heck, I'm not required to go out with them again unless I want to.
I'm looking to get out of the house and have some fun and I can be frank about that. I'm not into misleading anyone. If and I state a big if someone really gets my attention or vice versa then a more serious talk is needed. But there is absolutely no reason I can't go out on hikes, dinner, bars, events with anyone I choose.
Right now I just signed up.... I haven't committed to meeting anyone yet and maybe I don't. What I really needed to do was to take a step to get out of this rut I'm in.... I'm slowly dying in this house and I recognize that.
Dating before your learned to be happy yourself, moved in from your WAH, and put in the work to be ready to move in healthy and happy is putting a bandaid on a severed limb. You've give your own way on most things so I don't expect you to take the advice, but it is really a bad idea. The best way to complicate things with a WAS is to introduce another person into the mix. Especially since I have no doubt that if your H said "Let's get back together" you'd do it in a second.
To each their own.
I also hate to break it to you, as someone on the OLD scene longer than I care for.....
Men aren’t on there for a “let’s just go out to dinner and go hiking” they want 2 things
1) sex
2) a relationship.
They have no desire To go out and spend money with a separated woman if none of those are on the table.
They aren’t looking for a bestie
Dating before your learned to be happy yourself, moved in from your WAH, and put in the work to be ready to move in healthy and happy is putting a bandaid on a severed limb. You've give your own way on most things so I don't expect you to take the advice, but it is really a bad idea. The best way to complicate things with a WAS is to introduce another person into the mix. Especially since I have no doubt that if your H said "Let's get back together" you'd do it in a second.
To each their own.
I know how to be on my own - I was single mom for 8yr. I did not date at all for 5yr. I focused on my young child and myself. These days my son is off to college so he doesn't need me so much.
I've been getting out. Occassionally with friends but I'm not against going out on adventure on my own. I go to several state parks and hike - alone. I will go to festivals - alone. I will sign up for painting class, a drink mixer class - alone. But all that alone time is leaving me to be totally in my head and overthinking EVERYTHING.
I need to get to not be so focused on me. I need interaction and challenges for growth.
I'm not even sure what I will do and when. Right now I'm just in communication with potential "matches". One person right off the bat stated he would relocate for me and a serious relationship. I just replied thank you but I'm just getting out and dating again due to change of life circumstance and that perhaps I'm not the person for him.
I'm getting lots of interest from guys several states away - uh hello, how is that going to work? I'm polite and friendly but that is already a situation that isn't going to go anywhere.
Maybe I never go out on a single date. I'm not into leading anyone on for any reason. But, I do know after being stuck here so much with Covid that I'm about bat s*it crazy. I have to try something.
We can agree that what I have been doing isn't working... this is my something different.
But you are doing more of the same.
The only difference is you trying to find your next high from someone other than you STBXH.
You are still searching for that that hit to fly high from somewhere . Now it’s men on dating sites.
Coming off these highs are pretty rough. And you keep putting yourself through it
I also hate to break it to you, as someone on the OLD scene longer than I care for.....
Men aren’t on there for a “let’s just go out to dinner and go hiking” they want 2 things
1) sex
2) a relationship.
They have no desire To go out and spend money with a separated woman if none of those are on the table.
They aren’t looking for a bestie
Well hate to break it to you but that was NEVER me... ever... Even prior to getting married I was always the kind of girl who was adventurous in doing things but its called dating... not every shoe you try on fits well.
Dating has potential.
Just because you date me doesn't me 1) you'll get sex and 2) this is a relationship. Frankly thats what got my H's attention. I didn't just sleep with him. I had values and thing I needed to be true.
Sure 12yr ago I had lots of first dates - it was fun, an adventure. And, believe it or not 3 of those men are FB friends, have been and we still keep in light contact. They were all nice great guys, just not my great guy.
I'm never mislead anyone.
I'm equally capable of picking up the tab on a date.
I’m not saying that is YOU
That’s THEM.
MEN are not online to hang out with a seperated woman. They are online for either sex or a relationship. Not for an adventure buddy
That has nothing to do with you will do or not do.
It’s what they are looking for.
So the odds of getting what you are looking for are slim to none. And you will probably have more dates then you care where a guy wants one or the other and you are looking for neither.
Which is not a friend to dine with .
These men don’t want friends to dine with or hike with whether or not you are picking up the tab.
So what you are looking for, isn’t going to found online
And Steve --
I don't know what I would do if H wanted to come back at this point.
I'm not the only person hurt over all this stupid crap. He would have to first make amends to that person.
I would tell him - I don't really know at this point, things have changed quite a bit.
Which from what I read here is exactly what I'm supposed to say to him anyway.
However, all that is a mute point as I've been told over and over he is not coming back. That he is done. So the whole what if thing shouldn't even exist if what you and everyone else is saying to me.
I will admit that my H has not show one bit of leaning in toward me. Yes, he has done some confusing stuff - offering things, bringing home made dog treats, drunk calling and all concerned about where/what I was doing. But, that's not really leaning into me and our M.
MEN are not online to hang out with a seperated woman. They are online for either sex or a relationship. Not for an adventure buddy
That has nothing to do with you will do or not do.
It’s what they are looking for.
So the odds of getting what you are looking for are slim to none. And you will probably have more dates then you care where a guy wants one or the other and you are looking for neither.
I often agree with Ginger but in this case I don’t think she could be more wrong. I guess I can only really speak for myself but I’d be more than happy to go on dates without sex and especially without an R having to be in the table. I may be cautious of someone only separated and would not allow myself to get too involved but I’d love to have someone to just go out with. I have to believe there are other guys like me. Might they want sex much sooner than me, perhaps. An R? I guess but it’s not at all a hard and fast yes.
I Keep getting told that I’ll not find a woman NOT looking for a LTR or M yet others say they are out there. Now saying that ALL guys want sex and an R is just simply not true. Not saying Kit should or should not date at this point. I’ve not followed this thread enough to have an opinion. If separated I’d have to say it’s not a good idea but to say she won’t find guys OLD just looking to casually date is just NOT TRUE. From what I’ve been told there are too many guys OLD that fall into this category. Yeah they may want sex on date 1 or 2 but she can say no. Not all guys want an I immediate R nor do all women. So why do many keep claiming this is the case? I’d love a causal date with someone I find interesting. Some level of physical contact or interaction is expected in time but it does not need to be immediate sex. It’s finding someone I find interesting who I’m attracted to that I find difficult. Maybe it’s the guys you've been choosing that all fall into these categories, Ginger? But it’s not all guys.
Just be honest about what you are expecting and looking for.
Completely agree, DonH. Ginger massively missed the mark here. If a man made a sweeping negative generalization about women who do online dating, he’d get hung, drawn and quartered.
So proud of you KitCat for not changing your standards. If what you want is dating without those expectations, stick to your guns, and make it clear from the outset.
As to whether you’re ready for that sort of stuff yet and your level of disconnection from your ex, I haven’t read your whole sich... but then probably most people on this site can’t help you work that out. That’s probably the sorta thing best left to a professional. Why don’t you make and appointment or two with someone and talk it out? They might be able to help identify if you’re ready and give you tips on how to do it slowly and safely while you’re finding your feet again?
Good luck!
Well hang me then
Guess I’m wrong.
When someone finds a man online who has no interest in sex and no interest in relationships and is online and just wants to be friends online with women who aren’t even divorced, let me know.
Because I’m pretty sure guys online aren’t reaching out to a woman not even divorced to be just be buddies.
I hope I’m wrong and if you can, please hang me. And apologize profusely . Perhaps the men in my area are much different. Can’t say in the many men I’ve come in contact with, none of them were in there to “make friends” their purpose was to find a relationship or have sex.
But I guess it’s “on line friendship” not online dating.
It wasn’t even something negative said about men. But there are generally 2 camps. Same for women. Although I would add an extra category of women who sign up for online dating. Those who want free meals. In addition to those who want sex, and ego boost, or a serious relationship.
Very few are there for finding friends.
But hey, KK, you want to get over your husband by online dating, far be it for me to have an opinion or stop you. I tried it back when I was seperated and was still wanted my ex back. Worked horribly for me. For others, I guess it works out well.
I am going through a really rough time in my life right now. So I took myself OFF the dating sites.
But who the frig am I to judge. You do you.
And sorry for the generalization on the fact men are online to look for a partner or to have sex. Maybe there are lots who’s end game aren’t sex or a relationship. Just friends
KK , have you thought about a meet up group rather than a dating site if your intentions in the OLD arena are what you say? My area is still kind of tight on group meet up rules and I have an injury, but I would be joining a meet up hike group or a meet up beer tasting group. Great way to interact.
And just to point out. 2 posts within a few days of eachother. One that that says I am still hoping he would want to work on the M and then another saying you wouldn’t take him back because he’s not showing signs of “leaning into you”
The most harmful lies I have ever told are the ones I have told myself. If you H walked into the house tomorrow, said “ I dumped OW and I want to work on the M” what would you REAlly do?
I'd say DonH and Kind18 are the exceptions, not the rule. In fact, I knew a woman in KC's exact circumstances a few years back who started casually dating and was shocked at the number of men that expected that sex was part of the deal. And I should point out that it was pre-Tinder. I think that now sex as part of casual dating is even more than norm than it was back then.
In fact, KC, you mention the attention you've been receiving from other men. I highly doubt that is because of your personality, and your love of hobbies and other things. Not that those men could eventually be interested because of those things, but first meetings are all about things much more superficial than that! So that argument, to me, is much more in keeping with what Ginger has said.
As far as those disagreeing with Ginger, I am not sure a couple of exceptions to the rule make her wrong. Otherwise, eHarmony would be much more popular than Tinder.........and it ain't!
KK , have you thought about a meet up group rather than a dating site if your intentions in the OLD arena are what you say? My area is still kind of tight on group meet up rules and I have an injury, but I would be joining a meet up hike group or a meet up beer tasting group. Great way to interact.
And just to point out. 2 posts within a few days of eachother. One that that says I am still hoping he would want to work on the M and then another saying you wouldn’t take him back because he’s not showing signs of “leaning into you”
The most harmful lies I have ever told are the ones I have told myself. If you H walked into the house tomorrow, said “ I dumped OW and I want to work on the M” what would you REAlly do?
I hear you.
Sadly meet up is just NOT that popular in my area. Believe me I've tried. Add in COVID and its no man's land. I am in a meet up group and we had our first get together in a park 2 weeks ago which was the first time in 8 months. If you count me - there were 4 people there. That group has nothing else planned again at this point in time. I've even extended my search for a group to 75miles from me - no kidding.... NOTHING.
As for my posts I'm trying to balance out my emotions and the reality that everyone is pointing out here. Yes, I would put the work into my M. But, everyone here says my H is disgusted by me... has left and isn't coming back... So I'm trying to accept the picture that is being painted.
I've been completely forth coming. My profile says "Separated". I already had one guy show interest and then notice I'm just separated and said it was a deal breaker. I wasn't hurt. Good for him for having his own standards. And, good for me for not misleading. Another guy who seems quite nice and down to earth did ask how long I have been separated which I was honest about. He asked a few more questions - I was completely honest. So far he seems to understand that I'm just starting out on this journey --- even if I was D I'm not jumping into another long term relationship. I truly need to date around. Period.
Frankly the weird part is the people who contact you and live overf 1500mi away... REALLY? Yes, nice ego boost for me that someone finds me attractive but there is no hope in that going anywhere.
As I have said previously. I have no idea where this will go. Will I even meet up with anyone? Shoot I may do so and have a really good time but in the end I may go home and just stop completely.
I know I need to do something. My mind is starting to rot.
MEN are not online to hang out with a seperated woman. They are online for either sex or a relationship. Not for an adventure buddy
That has nothing to do with you will do or not do.
It’s what they are looking for.
So the odds of getting what you are looking for are slim to none. And you will probably have more dates then you care where a guy wants one or the other and you are looking for neither.
I often agree with Ginger but in this case I don’t think she could be more wrong. I guess I can only really speak for myself but I’d be more than happy to go on dates without sex and especially without an R having to be in the table. I may be cautious of someone only separated and would not allow myself to get too involved but I’d love to have someone to just go out with. I have to believe there are other guys like me. Might they want sex much sooner than me, perhaps. An R? I guess but it’s not at all a hard and fast yes.
I Keep getting told that I’ll not find a woman NOT looking for a LTR or M yet others say they are out there. Now saying that ALL guys want sex and an R is just simply not true. Not saying Kit should or should not date at this point. I’ve not followed this thread enough to have an opinion. If separated I’d have to say it’s not a good idea but to say she won’t find guys OLD just looking to casually date is just NOT TRUE. From what I’ve been told there are too many guys OLD that fall into this category. Yeah they may want sex on date 1 or 2 but she can say no. Not all guys want an I immediate R nor do all women. So why do many keep claiming this is the case? I’d love a causal date with someone I find interesting. Some level of physical contact or interaction is expected in time but it does not need to be immediate sex. It’s finding someone I find interesting who I’m attracted to that I find difficult. Maybe it’s the guys you've been choosing that all fall into these categories, Ginger? But it’s not all guys.
Just be honest about what you are expecting and looking for.
Thanks!!!
And, I don't think you are alone. Sure I've run across a guy within 24hr telling me he would relocate for LTR with me. I just kindly replied that I'm just getting started on this journey and thats more than I have to offer right now.
But, I also get the feeling that some are completely cool with the idea of some fun adventures.
I'm not crossing anything off my list. Meeting some cool interesting people, someone who I might find very attractive and interested in pursuing , and perhaps my H starts to poke his head around and show some interest... ALL OF THESE ARE POSSIBLE. I'm not going to try to predict the future. BUT, it is my job to be honest first and then true to myself second.
and perhaps my H starts to poke his head around and show some interest...
ANd there it is.....................
^^^yup. Knew it
Get honest with yourself KK. Get very very honest with yourself because there is no one else you are going to hurt but yourself
So Ginger, Steve
And i know different for everyone, but when is the time when you do start considering dating? 6 months in and im so not interested, ok if anyone asked if they could buy me coffee, yup i drink coffee, so i wouldnt decline possibly. But i would t actively join a dating website, although i do understand kk and an ego boost or a remedy for loneliness sounds really appealing. I recognise that whilst i might be able to receive attention im not ready to give it to anyone.
And if thats the case are we saying rhat most of WAS relationships (affairs) doNt last because tbh they were never started in a healthy place to start with?!
So Ginger, Steve
And i know different for everyone, but when is the time when you do start considering dating? 6 months in and im so not interested, ok if anyone asked if they could buy me coffee, yup i drink coffee, so i wouldnt decline possibly. But i would t actively join a dating website, although i do understand kk and an ego boost or a remedy for loneliness sounds really appealing. I recognise that whilst i might be able to receive attention im not ready to give it to anyone.
And if thats the case are we saying rhat most of WAS relationships (affairs) doNt last because tbh they were never started in a healthy place to start with?!
Steve will have a different answer than me because he is very religious.
For me, nothing healthy was going to happen until I could truly say I didn’t want my ex back. I needed to be over my ex to enter into anything healthy. It’s different for everyone, I really do think taking time to be alone , especially if you are raising children, it’s really important.
But separated , not divorced, still considering reconciliation if given the opportunity is not a fair or healthy time to be dating
and perhaps my H starts to poke his head around and show some interest...
ANd there it is.....................
My point was - I cannot predict the future.
What if I'm happily dating for the next 3 years... and then my H comes back around?
What would I do? IDK... If I'm happily involved with someone else then most likely NOTHING. But, if I'm still casually dating??? Would I consider it? Who knows.
I feel sometimes I get roasted for being completely honest.
And, again peeps... this is called dating... Do you expect to catch fish everytime you go out fishing?? Nope - sometimes you never get a bite on the line for a number of reasons.
I'm not looking for a LTR. I'm looking to get out there. I'm 51yr old. If I wait 5yr until I get Steve's approval I'm 56. It would be much different if I was 28 but I'm not.
I'd say DonH and Kind18 are the exceptions, not the rule. In fact, I knew a woman in KC's exact circumstances a few years back who started casually dating and was shocked at the number of men that expected that sex was part of the deal. And I should point out that it was pre-Tinder. I think that now sex as part of casual dating is even more than norm than it was back then.
In fact, KC, you mention the attention you've been receiving from other men. I highly doubt that is because of your personality, and your love of hobbies and other things. Not that those men could eventually be interested because of those things, but first meetings are all about things much more superficial than that! So that argument, to me, is much more in keeping with what Ginger has said.
As far as those disagreeing with Ginger, I am not sure a couple of exceptions to the rule make her wrong. Otherwise, eHarmony would be much more popular than Tinder.........and it ain't!
I was out dating 12yr ago. I can tell you during that time I went on lots of dates over a period of 2yr.
The only person I ever slept with during that 2-3yr period was my H.
Sure I had lots of opportunity... but I was never for much more than a quick bang.
So again. It can be done. You can have standards and happily date, go on adventures. As I said previously 3 of these guys are still on my FB friends list who I interact fairly regularly.
I would take a deep look within yourselves - Steve and Ginger. Perhaps your world view is heavily skewed from previous issues... and I'm sure mine is... I generally think that people are good. I tend to attract those types of people.
I know how to be on my own - I was single mom for 8yr. I did not date at all for 5yr. I focused on my young child and myself. These days my son is off to college so he doesn't need me so much.
Need to go back to this. Because you completely missed the point. I said learn to be HAPPY by yourself. I never doubted you could survive on your own. But even in the above, you make it sound like being a mother and concentrating on raising your son is what got you through. What I am trying to get you to see is that until you are happy by yourself then you will never be in a happy relationship. Relationships that thrive and last consist of two fully fulfilled individuals...individuals that were happy and thriving on their own. Short of that, when two people were less than happy on their own, they are a ticking timebomb headed towards their next BD.
All this would be solved with a good IC.
and perhaps my H starts to poke his head around and show some interest...
ANd there it is.....................
My point was - I cannot predict the future.
What if I'm happily dating for the next 3 years... and then my H comes back around?
What would I do? IDK... If I'm happily involved with someone else then most likely NOTHING. But, if I'm still casually dating??? Would I consider it? Who knows.
I feel sometimes I get roasted for being completely honest.
And, again peeps... this is called dating... Do you expect to catch fish everytime you go out fishing?? Nope - sometimes you never get a bite on the line for a number of reasons.
I'm not looking for a LTR. I'm looking to get out there. I'm 51yr old. If I wait 5yr until I get Steve's approval I'm 56. It would be much different if I was 28 but I'm not.
You certainly don't need my approval for squat! I didn't roast you. I predicted that this was another way of trying to get your H's attention. And then you hinted at just that. You are being honest. So am I.
I'd say DonH and Kind18 are the exceptions, not the rule. In fact, I knew a woman in KC's exact circumstances a few years back who started casually dating and was shocked at the number of men that expected that sex was part of the deal. And I should point out that it was pre-Tinder. I think that now sex as part of casual dating is even more than norm than it was back then.
In fact, KC, you mention the attention you've been receiving from other men. I highly doubt that is because of your personality, and your love of hobbies and other things. Not that those men could eventually be interested because of those things, but first meetings are all about things much more superficial than that! So that argument, to me, is much more in keeping with what Ginger has said.
As far as those disagreeing with Ginger, I am not sure a couple of exceptions to the rule make her wrong. Otherwise, eHarmony would be much more popular than Tinder.........and it ain't!
I was out dating 12yr ago. I can tell you during that time I went on lots of dates over a period of 2yr.
The only person I ever slept with during that 2-3yr period was my H.
Sure I had lots of opportunity... but I was never for much more than a quick bang.
So again. It can be done. You can have standards and happily date, go on adventures. As I said previously 3 of these guys are still on my FB friends list who I interact fairly regularly.
I would take a deep look within yourselves - Steve and Ginger. Perhaps your world view is heavily skewed from previous issues... and I'm sure mine is... I generally think that people are good. I tend to attract those types of people.
Yes, you are right. I have been with 4 women sexually in my life. I have been with my W exclusively for 23 years. But yes, it is my previous issues that this acknowledgement that most guys are out for sex or LTRs is rooted in....and not reality. Heck, LH even quoted a very sexually over-toned philosophy that is out there! (The best way to get over someone is to get under someone.)
Best of luck to you, KC! I sincerely hope it works out for you. However, I have to be honest with you on my assessment.....and that is that dating is the last thing you should be doing right now. Just my opinion. Doesn't mean I am right and you are wrong. Doesn't mean I am roasting you. It is my just my honest opinion. My opinion and $5 will get you a cheeseburger!
So Ginger, Steve
And i know different for everyone, but when is the time when you do start considering dating? 6 months in and im so not interested, ok if anyone asked if they could buy me coffee, yup i drink coffee, so i wouldnt decline possibly. But i would t actively join a dating website, although i do understand kk and an ego boost or a remedy for loneliness sounds really appealing. I recognise that whilst i might be able to receive attention im not ready to give it to anyone.
And if thats the case are we saying rhat most of WAS relationships (affairs) doNt last because tbh they were never started in a healthy place to start with?!
My Take on this ( dating ) - When the LBS gets their &^&* together..
And i don't just mean "oh i'm over the WW / WH ) - When the relationship falls apart, there are other factors to consider.. Finances, Children, self improvement and reflection etc. Somebody in a healthy place will recognise this and act accordingly..
If you are still regularly posting on here in an "ask for advice / journal" capacity, you are not ready to start dating IMO.. No where near ready - When you sort yourself out, you know - In KK's case , 3 days ago she was posting she was feeling "Meh", so the solution is to date ?... IMO ( and these are just my opinions ) this is not healthy - its looking for "something" to fix a situation.. The fact she would still consider taking hubby back is also a red flag..
I will also make a general statement - a healthy guy who wants a relationship will run a mile from people who are still hung up on their ex - and you can tell very quickly from date 1.. A guy just after sex may tell you what you want to hear, but he doesnt care, as he doesnt plan on sticking around.
The LBS needs to take a long hard look at what went wrong - in a lot of cases, the red flags were there with the ex, but ignored becuase they knew no better.. If they want another relationship, they need to reflect on their previous mistakes and ensure this doesnt happen with the new person they are dating. - This process will not happen if you havent sorted your self out - you will skip the hard work, fall in "LUV", while everybody else just knows the red flags were there and its a car crash waiting to happen.
And to answer the final question - yes - as the cheating ex doesnt do any work on themselves.. THey jump right into the next relationship without reflecting on their issues - only for their issues to cause the affair to fall apart after weeks or months...
Okey dokey.
I think your missing my point. It’s not worth trying to express. I never said you were going to have sex with anyone. But they will certainly try and there goes your friendship.
I take a look inside myself every single day. And get 100% completely honest with myself .
Best of luck to you! I hope it all works out for you!
I greatly appreciate everyone's viewpoint.
Going out with someone is not to get my H's attention. He lives an hour away. We have no friends or mutual contacts. We literally have no reason to keep in touch period. So how would he ever know? So we can nix it as a way to get H's attention.
I'm looking to get out and do new things.
I've recently looked into going kayaking - something new for me. One of the men I've met mentioned getting me out there and showing me the ropes. Does he have ulterior motives??? Maybe. IDK. But it will be clear that its just a fun interaction trying a new experience.
I'm not misleading anyone. I'm upfront and honest.
As far as the work. I've done a ton. And was recently recognized for it by some friends who don't know me all that well as well as those that do.
I am weighing what you have to say as well as what I know will work best for me.
No hard feelings to anyone.
It seems like there is a lot of confusion and nuance going on in this conversation. That’s not bad but can be confusing. I think I may know better what Ginger and for sure Steve are getting at. It very well may not be a good idea for Kit to be dating right now. I will agree that most guys, this guy included, are not looking for a platonic buddy OLD - well for me I’ve not been OLD for multiple years now - 3 or 4 other than an odd event two years ago that lead to a handful of dates with one person. I was just saying not all guys want an R or sex within the first three dates. I stand by that. But if the point is most guys are not going to go months and double digit dates or not expect some hand holding and kisses after a few dates, yes I’d agree with that. If you want a strictly platonic relationship, don’t go OLD.
It is interesting how the belief of some is, like Ginger says, all guys want immediate sex. I’ve been accused of that, even though I don’t think I do anything to indicate it. I have challenged a few on this and indeed they could not pinpoint anything I did to get this opinion. They then admitted it’s just what they think most guys want. And they could be correct but if you go in with that opinion that’s likely what you will see. To a hammer everyone is a nail. I wonder how many times I’ve been incorrectly judged like this - or how many guys Ginger has incorrectly judged? If not, it may be the Type of guys being selected.
So, yes, if looking for a Strictly platonic buddy, OLD is not the place to go. I’m just saying not all guys OLD want an R - I’d say a sizable number do not. Same goes for immediate sex, though that number falls - especially on Tinder and a few others - but we are out there. But I’m anything but a fan of OLD to begin with so take it all for what it’s worth.
The most harmful lies I have ever told are the ones I have told myself.
Ginger1 - Thank you for this. It completely resonates with me and my situation.
Hi KitCat,
I agree, almost every guy online dating wants either SEX or a ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP.
(To Don's point, yes, many guys are more interested in the relationship than the sex. I do try for a kiss on date #1 and sex on date #3. I do well at dating and I've found to do otherwise hurts your chances. I was fine with the one lady I dated who held off on sex for 5-7 dates, because that's not my goal. Many women still like the validation of knowing that the guy is trying and is eager to get there eventually, lol.)
If you're genuinely looking for platonic friends to do fun things with, there are better places to checkout, for example Meetup, guided trips, or local groups doing your hobby of interest (kayaking). I say that as someone with experience whitewater and ocean kayaking, certified in the later. Online Dating to do platonic things, sounds like either leading on others, or a way to "fall" into something without facing it head on.
I wonder why the hurry to date before getting over your ex.
Hi KitCat,
I agree, almost every guy online dating wants either SEX or a ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP.
(To Don's point, yes, many guys are more interested in the relationship than the sex. I do try for a kiss on date #1 and sex on date #3. I do well at dating and I've found to do otherwise hurts your chances. I was fine with the one lady I dated who held off on sex for 5-7 dates, because that's not my goal. Many women still like the validation of knowing that the guy is trying and is eager to get there eventually, lol.)
If you're genuinely looking for platonic friends to do fun things with, there are better places to checkout, for example Meetup, guided trips, or local groups doing your hobby of interest (kayaking). I say that as someone with experience whitewater and ocean kayaking, certified in the later. Online Dating to do platonic things, sounds like either leading on others, or a way to "fall" into something without facing it head on.
I wonder why the hurry to date before getting over your ex.
As I've pointed out earlier meet up is NOT a thing in my area... its dead/dud and no go.
I'm not expecting to date some guy like a dozen times and NOT sleep with him. I'm just not going with the idea that I'm going to be exclusively dating someone 12 times.
I see no issue meeting with someone and having a date or two and see if it clicks or works. Nothing there then move on. Perhaps given my current state of healing I'm not clicking with anyone. BUT - I'm very good at being honest about where I am at. I am not hiding anything. I am not offended when someone says that not for them.
I might go out on a date for drinks one evening after work and then totally come home hating the entire thing. But this is the path I think I need to go for now.
This may have had a different ending if not for COVID. I spent months in isolation. I am recognizing that I'm dealing with some serious brain rot. Clearly an issue of circumstance has not helped my situation. I've worked hard to manage my depression - meds, working out, etc but coming home every night to an empty house for multiple months has not helped. I'm the biggest introvert on the planet. My happy place is my home. I'm completely comfortable with my own company but I realize I have reached a huge breaking point. I need to get out and be social and that admission from someone who is such a huge introvert is something I need to take seriously.
I don't have a lot of options where I live.
To Don's point, yes, many guys are more interested in the relationship than the sex.
So, just to be clear, this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is the OPPOSITE of Don's point - and I should know, because I am him! LOL. I thought I said it clearly but if not, let me say it again - I would say there are LESS men not more who want an R online than who just want sex. To be sure, a sizeable number may want both but there are enough of us that DO NOT want a live-in or a wife and are not all about the sex either.
I do well at dating and I've found to do otherwise hurts your chances... Many women still like the validation of knowing that the guy is trying and is eager to get there eventually, lol..
Wow... I mean, wow. Perhaps I should not wonder why so many women think sex is all that guys OLD want - because, evidently, if you don't want it, it "hurts your changes" Wow.
Did I say wow?
Am I THAT out of touch with reality? Again, it may be more about the people being chosen.