Divorcebusting.com

Filed for D

Posted By: Core

Filed for D - 08/11/20 05:19 PM

Previous Thread: Here

Recap:
Spent 10 months post BD working on myself and the M in different ways. Finally had enough after finding W was name calling me, lying to friends about me and what I thought was lying about going to counseling. I filed for D, we are in the process and I continue to experience some guilt, disappointment and regret along with happiness and hope for my future.

Updates:
It turns out, W was going to counseling, albeit late and missed a few sessions. Her apparently skipping counseling and lying about it was one of my final straws which convinced me to file. With her actually going, I'm left being hasty and feeling like the bad guy. Of course Ive no idea what she was working on in counseling however it could've been towards fixing the M. Either way those days are gone. I think back to LHs advice...maybe I should've had that last chat with my W before filing. Im sure it wouldve still been full of manipulation and gaslighting but I'd have more peace. Im still convinced D is best for me here however if she was working on her issue, maybe the D isnt what was best for the family. I cant go back but it is unfortunate for me to have to live with this. Yes its my own doing. I based it partially on incorrect information. W did say she was thinking about filing as well but I believe nothing she says. It may have just been something to make herself feel better for being discarded or it was the truth. Not being able to trust the former love of my life for the rest of my life helps me regret it all a bit less.

Add this to the number of things I won't have answers for. I am left to wonder, was my neglectful, betraying W actually working on things? I saw no positive signs yet but they only had a few sessions of counseling. I'm not going to cancel the process or anything along those lines. Another challenge here to overcome on my journey to being a better man. Im still on the quick path to D and never remarrying. I just dont see the point in 2020.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Filed for D - 08/11/20 05:49 PM

With what you've put up with for 10 months, only a complete ignorant moron could accuse you of being the bad guy. Maybe she was making progress. Were you willing to wait another year? Two? Five? you can walk away knowing you put all you could into saving things.

Besides, being D'd will not prevent R later. This is common LBS myth stuff. A D is a legal process. If a walkaway wants to R, having had a D will not prevent that.
Posted By: FlySolo

Re: Filed for D - 08/11/20 06:50 PM

Core

I don't think I've commented on your thread before. For what it's worth, I have just filed and I did not discuss it with my H before hand. For me it was taking our children away for a family weekend and not telling me his GF would be there. Do I feel guilt at times, yes. Do I feel like if I hung on a bit longer that he may realise that I am the love of his life, absolutely. It feels like giving up. And that feeling [censored].

But you know what else, at some point we need to move forward. As long as you are doing it for you and not to shock them into some sort of epiphany, then it is the right thing to do. Steve is right, if they want to R, then a divorce is not going to stop them.

A childhood friend recently got in touch. I have not spoken to him in 20 years. Since we last spoke he has got married, has had two kids, got divorced and then remarried the same woman again 7 years later. I imagine it is a struggle for them. But they are committed to trying. It happens. D is not the end. It's a new beginning. The beginning of what is completely up to you.
Posted By: Ginger1

Re: Filed for D - 08/11/20 08:29 PM

Do you really believe she was working on herself to be ken a better partner for the marriage?

I donít believe it for one second.

And if she truly wants to reconcile , filing for D will not stop her
Posted By: IronWill

Re: Filed for D - 08/11/20 10:51 PM

Hey Core -

I wanted to touch on something from your last thread -

Originally Posted by Core

IW, good point on forgiveness. Something I'll look in to more. I don't want to forgive someone whom isnt seeking forgiveness but I know that only hurts me.

You don't forgive someone if they ask for forgiveness. That's a transactional affair. If I do X, you'll do Y.

You forgive someone for YOU. You do it to give yourself peace of mind. You do it because it will let the other person go, it will free the other person to attempt.to find their own happiness, because that is what every WAS is searching for, in the end.

I don't mean forgiveness as in some sort of spoken monologue or dramatic conversation with W. I mean you forgive her in your mind, in your heart. No words are necessary. That is what I mean when I speak of forgiveness.

The reason I say this to you is because you have young kids together. D or not, you are going to have to figure out a way to coparent with this person. You are going to have to figure out how to communicate with this person in a way that doesn't negatively affect or involve the children. And you're going to have to do this for a long time. Hence the marathon part.

Originally Posted by Core
The principle bugs me, you did X hurting all of us yet are facing almost no repercussions.


I understand, Core, that you're hurt and you need to take the time to process all of it. That's fine and well within your rights.

My F cheated on my M multiple times at the end of their disastrous 15 year MR. My M grew furious at him and took it out on us kids. My F in turn did the same thing - and they spent the next 2 decades fighting and haggling in courts over things that two sane people could have talked out in simple cordial 5 minute discussions.

My M never forgave my F. My F never forgave my M. It's nearly 40 years later and they're still furious at each other and they remind me every time I talk to them.

Each has been remarried several times. But to M and F, it is as if it happened yesterday. And it had an enormous impact on us kids - having a helping hand in sabotaging 3 out of 4 of my siblings' and mine long term relationships due to developmental impediments.

Core - look, I know you're angry and hurt, but please don't do that to your kids, ok? Be the rock, be the strong one, be the bigger person.

Soapbox rant over.

Take care, man - stay strong.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 08/12/20 01:48 PM

Thank you Steve. That take is one I have to remind myself of probably for years to come here.

Flysolo, I cant imagine remarrying someone after divorce but right here you have a good example. Limbo and piecing seem hard enough, I cant imagine after divorcing for a few years. You're right on moving forward, I had to eventually and I saw no signs of things changing anytime soon.

Ginger, personally I believe she went to IC for validation of her choice. I have no clue if thats true but with nothing happening outside of her IC, I think she was going just to make it appear she was doing something. To keep me from filing.

IW, thank you for the message. What your parents went through and put you guys through sounds brutal. I see now what helped you obtain your ironwill. We are cordial for the kids. For me at the time being, its going ok even though I am harbouring all the ill feelings and thoughts towards W. Maybe it'll be easier to let them go after D.

Right now, this person ended my dream, my families dreams and my kids chances of a complete family and stable future. Shes messing me up financially for years to come, im turned off to any LTRs and Im stuck in a part of the world I didnt want to stay in for at least 17 years. All this over feelings. She initiated an R chat yesterday. She forgot the good, got validation of the bad and now thinks she never truly loved me and that someone else will make her happy. She admitted to one or two of her own issues but the solution isnt or wasnt to work on them. Ending the M and finding someone new is the solution. She felt like there were problems for awhile and it ate her up. FELT. She even admitted it was a feeling and may not have been really what happened but the feeling is what mattered. A feeling over reality. F that, no more LTRs for me. Admittedly even if her perception was wrong, the feeling she recieved dictates destroying what we had. She wishes we did more things romantically....she apparently forgot the first several years and her stopping those things.

How can I forgive that? I still get why I should but how I dont yet see. She has no idea what she wants but her and her family and friends know for sure that I'm the cause of unhappiness.

Were looking at a year a least to find a house in this market. Even longer to win one and afford it. This hell all over temporary feelings is just garbage in my opinion.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: Filed for D - 08/12/20 03:36 PM

Core. You definitely have reasons to be angry with your W. It s*cks beyond belief to have someone unilaterally decide to dismantle your marriage and family life based on feelings. Believe me...I know what that is like...as does everyone else on here. But for your sake and the sake of your kids, you need to find a way to let it go and move forward. And forgiveness is a BIG part of that, IMO. Not just forgiveness for your W but, equally as important, forgiveness for yourself. I struggled with both of those things for a long time. Had many stops and starts. Times when I thought I had made it but then something would happen, and Iíd be back in the anger again and dealing with all of the hurt feelings behind it. It was a process but one that I was determined to get through so I just kept working on it. Itís been almost three years since BD and Iím happy to say that I am finally there. I can see and communicate with my ex without it affecting my day and we are co-parenting well. He is engaged to OW and I am okay with it. Our kids are good. Do they wish mom and dad had figured things out and they only had one house and one family? For sure but they have adjusted and are doing really, really well. And so am I. You can get there too and when you do, it will be such a relief. You will see things in a whole new way and you will look back and wonder why it took you so long to get there. Stay the course and you will get there... and it will be so worth it. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: Mumin

Re: Filed for D - 08/13/20 12:39 PM

Hey Core!

First, thanks for all you posts on this forum!
Second, sorry it has come to this! We all have our hopes somewhere.

Quote
I cant go back but it is unfortunate for me to have to live with this. Yes its my own doing.


Throw all you guilt out the window! You never wanted this and you have NOT created this sitch.
You have done more then enought to be able to say that you did waht you could to save the marriage!
I think later on you will be happy you were the one to file. It is the ultimate way of putting you foot down. I was a bit fast to D but like other have said, it does not prevent R. Today I am actually really happy I was the one to do it.


Quote
my kids chances of a complete family and stable future.


Not sure you mean "forever" here but this is actually wrong. So long as you remain their rock (see below) their future will most probably be MORE stable because of this. Not the other way around.



I understand what you are saying about forgiveness. Maybe you donít have to use that word for it. Personally I am not sure I will ever forgive the actions of my WW. For me its more about letting go and accepting things that have happend.
What my W did is always going to WRONG and not acceptable in my book. So like IW said I will never say it to her face but I will accept the fact that all this happened and let it go. Otherwise I will be angry about what she did for the rest of my life. If that is called forgiveness, so be it. But I need it to be able to move on completely, and so do you.
If not for you, do it for you kids!
Posted By: IronWill

Re: Filed for D - 08/13/20 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Core


IW, thank you for the message. What your parents went through and put you guys through sounds brutal. I see now what helped you obtain your ironwill. We are cordial for the kids. For me at the time being, its going ok even though I am harbouring all the ill feelings and thoughts towards W. Maybe it'll be easier to let them go after D.


It was rough, but we got through it. Much like life. Thank you though smile

My point was that you can start working on forgiveness. Its going to take a while to get fully there. No time like the present though smile

Originally Posted by Core
Right now, this person ended my dream, my families dreams and my kids chances of a complete family and stable future. Shes messing me up financially for years to come, im turned off to any LTRs and Im stuck in a part of the world I didnt want to stay in for at least 17 years. All this over feelings. She initiated an R chat yesterday. She forgot the good, got validation of the bad and now thinks she never truly loved me and that someone else will make her happy. She admitted to one or two of her own issues but the solution isnt or wasnt to work on them. Ending the M and finding someone new is the solution. She felt like there were problems for awhile and it ate her up. FELT. She even admitted it was a feeling and may not have been really what happened but the feeling is what mattered. A feeling over reality. F that, no more LTRs for me. Admittedly even if her perception was wrong, the feeling she recieved dictates destroying what we had. She wishes we did more things romantically....she apparently forgot the first several years and her stopping those things.

How can I forgive that? I still get why I should but how I dont yet see. She has no idea what she wants but her and her family and friends know for sure that I'm the cause of unhappiness.

Were looking at a year a least to find a house in this market. Even longer to win one and afford it. This hell all over temporary feelings is just garbage in my opinion.


Core - you are still very attached. Re-read that paragraph.

Do you think understanding why she did what she did will bring her back? Will it solve the puzzle? Will it give you peace of mind?

Things to think about.

Take care man smile
Posted By: unchien

Re: Filed for D - 08/14/20 02:44 AM

Core ~

One thing that helped me a lot was focus on the present. Forget about the future -- whether or not you seek a LTR, whether or not you forgive your W. Those things may come in due time, if you give yourself space to breathe.

You'll never know the Why. I guarantee you. It's not worth chasing.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 08/15/20 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Core. You definitely have reasons to be angry with your W. It s*cks beyond belief to have someone unilaterally decide to dismantle your marriage and family life based on feelings. Believe me...I know what that is like...as does everyone else on here. But for your sake and the sake of your kids, you need to find a way to let it go and move forward. And forgiveness is a BIG part of that, IMO. Not just forgiveness for your W but, equally as important, forgiveness for yourself. I struggled with both of those things for a long time. Had many stops and starts. Times when I thought I had made it but then something would happen, and Iíd be back in the anger again and dealing with all of the hurt feelings behind it. It was a process but one that I was determined to get through so I just kept working on it. Itís been almost three years since BD and Iím happy to say that I am finally there. I can see and communicate with my ex without it affecting my day and we are co-parenting well. He is engaged to OW and I am okay with it. Our kids are good. Do they wish mom and dad had figured things out and they only had one house and one family? For sure but they have adjusted and are doing really, really well. And so am I. You can get there too and when you do, it will be such a relief. You will see things in a whole new way and you will look back and wonder why it took you so long to get there. Stay the course and you will get there... and it will be so worth it. (((HUGS)))

This is very encouraging to read. The forgiveness, hearing the kids are ok and hearing youre ok. Three years for forgiveness, shoot I'm not even at one. I can see how hard it must've been in your sitch and three years may be quick, considering the circumstances.

Originally Posted by Mumin

Throw all you guilt out the window! You never wanted this and you have NOT created this sitch.
You have done more then enought to be able to say that you did waht you could to save the marriage!
I think later on you will be happy you were the one to file. It is the ultimate way of putting you foot down. I was a bit fast to D but like other have said, it does not prevent R. Today I am actually really happy I was the one to do it.

Hi Mumin, I see why you feel youre glad you filed. When I read that, I see Im the same way. Glad I made a choice for myself to not allow this limbo and neglect continue. I hear you on why I shouldnt have guilt. The things W has been saying quite a bit the last few days and as much as I dont believe all of it, I believe some. For example, there are some things she tried to have us do while she was beginning walkaway mode. There things I said that were miscommunicated, etc. The parts that I know are truth bring me back to the uneeded thoughts most of us have early in sitches like...."what could I have done differently".


Originally Posted by Mumin

Not sure you mean "forever" here but this is actually wrong. So long as you remain their rock (see below) their future will most probably be MORE stable because of this. Not the other way around.

Good point, I can create the stability I seek and hold that down for the kids.

Originally Posted by Mumin

I understand what you are saying about forgiveness. Maybe you donít have to use that word for it. Personally I am not sure I will ever forgive the actions of my WW. For me its more about letting go and accepting things that have happend.
What my W did is always going to WRONG and not acceptable in my book. So like IW said I will never say it to her face but I will accept the fact that all this happened and let it go. Otherwise I will be angry about what she did for the rest of my life. If that is called forgiveness, so be it. But I need it to be able to move on completely, and so do you.
If not for you, do it for you kids!


I do have to say the anger is good in a way. Gave me the energy to turn things around. I have stopped harboring hate...maybe I am moving towards forgiveness.

Originally Posted by IronWill

My point was that you can start working on forgiveness. Its going to take a while to get fully there. No time like the present though smile

Do you think understanding why she did what she did will bring her back? Will it solve the puzzle? Will it give you peace of mind?


I've heard of people who have forgiven those who have murdered their own kids so I know I can forgive W for murdering our marriage in due time. I think whats needed is time and space. As were talking logistics, we side step here and there in to the relationship and well, I get lied to, see manipulation again. The things I'm working to forgive.

Do I think understanding will bring her back, no. Understanding is to give me a little peace. I see that I want less of the responsibility on my shoulders. Understanding would help me from repeating the mistakes. I dont think anything can bring her back. Not the version of her I married. The kids are the only glue left. My attachment to her now is limited. Alot of it is because many days, especially slow work days, shes the only adult I can talk to.

Originally Posted by unchien

One thing that helped me a lot was focus on the present. Forget about the future -- whether or not you seek a LTR, whether or not you forgive your W. Those things may come in due time, if you give yourself space to breathe.

You'll never know the Why. I guarantee you. It's not worth chasing.

Spot on, all points U. I've gone back to forward thinking and its full of turmoil whereas the present is actually content. On the why, I understand why I'll never know...because W and all her thoughts and feelings are run on emotion which is always changing. I doubt she knows the why herself, just what she feels at any given time is the why. Its changed so many times since she asked for D and some of the former reasons are no longer reasons.
Posted By: FlySolo

Re: Filed for D - 08/18/20 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by Core
This is very encouraging to read. The forgiveness, hearing the kids are ok and hearing youre ok. Three years for forgiveness, shoot I'm not even at one. I can see how hard it must've been in your sitch and three years may be quick, considering the circumstances.


DV and I joined the community about the same time and I can tell you that she went through hell and back and then hell and back again. And then one day the tone of her posts changed. Her exH finally came clean(ish) and as painful as it was, (I think) it was the final push she needed. She stopped being angry about all the lies he'd told her in the past (they didn't matter anymore) and she stopped grieving the future he'd taken away from her (that future was gone, she was going to build a new one).

We don't all get that closure moment. For me, it's been a gradual shifting of the sands. But I am nearly there.

They say here that there is no timeline. It takes as long as it takes, it goes back and forth and one day you will realise the shift has happened. It might be meeting someone fantastic, it might be they do something and it becomes a final straw moment or it might just be witnessing a fantastic sunrise. Just live your life the best you can and the mental shift will happen in the background. You will know because you will read back through your posts and they will be less about her and more about you.

Originally Posted by Core
I hear you on why I shouldnt have guilt. The things W has been saying quite a bit the last few days and as much as I dont believe all of it, I believe some.


Ah, the f**kg guilt. Yes. They throw it at us like this is something we created rather than something we are reacting to. I am lucky (I guess), our communication is so poor that there is no opportunity to project guilt on to me smile.

Here's the thing, you ARE responsible for some of the faults in your M. That does not make you a monster. It makes you human.

But it is too late for "should haves and could haves and would haves". It is time to accept that those things happened, accept your part in it and use that information to make you a better man. Oh, and somewhere in there, you need to forgive yourself.

Re the divorce. Think of it as admin. Mechanics that you have to do, like taxes. Put the required paperwork together, start from a reasonable position and respond to queries, but otherwise leave it to the side. Things will get tough. Find things that ground you (meditate, church, long walks, running - whatever gives you the space to process and provide you with the quiet in order to listen to your better angels).

FS
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: Filed for D - 08/18/20 04:15 PM

Actually.... I just realized. It feels like three years but itís actually been two. FS is right. When it clicks, it clicks. Until then, you just keep pushing forward and let time and determination do itís thing. Eventually you get some distance and perspective and you start to envision life after divorce. Of course, unless you never plan on having another relationship, you then get to navigate the world of online dating (OLD). Now that is another adventure in itself...lol. Lots of highs and lows in that arena as well. Meh... I am starting to think that is just how life is...lol. What doesnít kill us makes us stronger. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: harvey

Re: Filed for D - 08/18/20 09:23 PM

FS, DV, and I started the journey around the same time, hoping to save our marriage. The end result was the same for each of us. We are all in nearly the same place now - though our paths to get here differed.

Core, you are about a year behind us. At some point, we had to let go. The thoughts of reconciliation, the anger, the bitterness, the questions about why... we had to let it all go.

Life is better on the other side. It's not the life I wanted, but it's a new life that I've chosen to embrace.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 08/21/20 04:07 PM

I wanted to stop in and says thanks for the past few comments. I've reread a couple times the last few days. Got through the guilt and talked to IC about it all. I still have fondness for my W. Her steps, unique deep breaths, shoulder cracking. While she apparently thought I was disgusted or disappointed in her, she has no idea how I cherished her. Of course as she felt that way, anytime I mentioned how I loved her, she wouldnt trust my words and the relationship would erode.

We are getting along really well. Not romantically but really collaboratively now towards D. Its messed up for me since its not what I wanted but I think between that and a battle, its what has to be done.

Im working on forgiveness and peace as you gave me advice for. When shes amicable its easier. She's not trying to destory me as far as I know in the D. Thats making it easier.
Posted By: LH19

Re: Filed for D - 08/21/20 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Core
Got through the guilt and talked to IC about it all.

I don't think you should have any guilt other then owning your own part in the demise of your marriage. I actually commend you for what you did and I wish more LBS would do the same. Trust me down the road you will be disgusted about how long you tolerated the BS. It's all a process Core and you are doing great! You are so young and have your entire life ahead of you to be around people who actually value you as a person.

Don't be surprised that now the pressure is off the you and Mrs. Core end up in bed together. Just saying.
Posted By: unchien

Re: Filed for D - 08/21/20 06:44 PM

Guilt is one step away from shame, and shame is almost always toxic. Taking responsibility for your role is different from feeling guilty.

Re: forgiveness, I can tell you in my situation I have decided to let it go. Perhaps one day I will forgive. I feel like the failure of my MR was like a giant boulder dropped into a lake, and the ripples will take a long time to even out, likely years. To me forgiveness is one of those slippery things... the more you think about it, the harder it is to get there. I can see a future where I forgive. I also don't worry about getting there.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: Filed for D - 08/21/20 09:22 PM

Core... I think it is good you still have a fondness for your W. Despite everything, I, too, feel like I have a fondness for my XH too... I donít love him the way I used to. That ship has sailed and is barely visible on the horizon. But I do genuinely want him to have a decent life and I think that is a good thing. Particularly for our kids who need to know that I donít hate their dad. Frees them up to love him and anyone else associated with his new life.

Keep moving forward. A year from now you will look back and be glad that you did. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: IronWill

Re: Filed for D - 08/22/20 04:18 PM

Core -

Glad to hear you're working through the guilt. Always remember- you were responsible for 50 percent of the MR. Thats the maximum you are allowed to blame yourself. My inkling is that instead, you had faults just like the rest of us. You were human. Making mistakes is normal. Please don't beat yourself up on that front.

On forgiveness - it is a decision we make. It is also a journey, not a destination. There will be good days and bad days. There will be days where we feel like we hate the other person, others where we reminisce fondly of the time we spent together.

We decide to forgive - even if the other person is behaving horribly. Not because we are a doormat, not because we are a loser, but because it is the right thing to do. Whether the other party ever realizes it is not up to us.

Forgive yourself too, Core - very important.

Take care man - stay strong smile
Posted By: Mumin

Re: Filed for D - 08/22/20 09:05 PM

Quote
On forgiveness - it is a decision we make. It is also a journey, not a destination. There will be good days and bad days. There will be days where we feel like we hate the other person, others where we reminisce fondly of the time we spent together.


This is so true! Thanks IW!

Stay strong Core!
And thanks for updating. The past few posts here have really helped me as well.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Filed for D - 08/23/20 08:06 PM

Quote
I do have to say the anger is good in a way. Gave me the energy to turn things around. I have stopped harboring hate...maybe I am moving towards forgiveness.


There use to be a lady here by the name of Vanilla. She had been in an abusive MR, and later she would say that getting angry was good.......b/c it gave her courage, instead of fear. I saw the same sitch with my sister. After her wayward, abusive spouse left her for OW......she got angry......good and angry! She would tell me that she wanted him to suffer. Thankfully, she was able to move on with her life and doesn't focus on him and the past. She didn't become a prisoner to watching him, and hoping he'd pay for how he treated her. Actually, she is much, much happier now. And guess what? It didn't take another man to make her happy. She did it all on her own.

I believe forgiveness comes from our own volition. It has nothing to do with whether or not the offender deserves forgiveness. It has nothing to do with whether or not the offender asks for our forgiveness. It can't be earned by the offender. It really has nothing to do with the other person, nor the sin they've committed. Forgiveness is an act of grace.

Sounds simple, but it's not so easy when lives have been altered as a result of another person's actions. Based on years of personal observation, most people need time to process the trauma and raw emotions. Even if they understand that forgiveness is for their own sake, they just can't match it with their current feelings. Some people seek spiritual/professional help to get through this passage of time, while others can work through it alone. I've personally seen individuals hold onto so much bitterness, nobody wanted to be around them. These are the ones who wouldn't let go of the wrong done to them. They kept the pain fresh and refused to move forward.

For whatever my words are worth, I encourage you to be kind to yourself. Give yourself some time to process everything. If you need help, then get it. The lessons we learn from life can be very painful. Whatever wisdom you gain from this experience......don't waste it.
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: Filed for D - 08/23/20 09:40 PM

Beautiful post Sandi. Such a great description of forgiveness.

IW - Loved your post as well. The part about forgiveness being a journey with good days and bad. That describes what I want through perfectly. Eventually the good days outnumber the bad which is hopefully a place we all get to...for our own healing.

(((HUGS)))
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Filed for D - 08/24/20 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Core
I still have fondness for my W.


I imagine you always will. I have fondness for my XW as well. I'm past wanting to be married to her or have any kind of romantic relationship with her, but I will always love her as a person and someone that was special to me for a long time. Your kids are very young, so you and your W will have a co-parenting relationship for quite some time, and really will probably interact on some level for the rest of your lives. So resolving things peacefully is definitely paving the way to a better future no matter what type of R you end up having with her.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Filed for D - 09/01/20 07:05 PM

Thank you for the kind words, DejaVu.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 09/02/20 07:46 PM

I got help from the last few posts that I didnt even know I needed, nor asked for. That's how thoughtful and experienced I believe those on this board to be. The knowledge helped me through some difficult days and I had a decent week or so. Mumin, I'm glad my posts are of help. I've been meaning to reply, update and thank you all for the support but I found myself escaping.

I have stopped the forms of escape and got nailed with emotions. As I saw on U's thread, I know my current feelings are temporary. Writing here and knowing someone will read it sometimes is enough. Hearing takes and getting guidance is a bonus.

Here's what hit me...I dont want a divorce. I miss my old wife. I am ashamed for not treating my anxiety sooner, not understanding my wife better and being oblivious to how bad things were for her. This is my current emotions darkening everything...frankly life isnt great. Its not what I was told it would be. The book, friends, parents led me to believe that good things came to good people. Trying hard and being decent would lead to a nice life. Being loving, working hard, putting others first would lead to a happy marriage. I'm not greedy, selfish, rude. I have what I'm told are great qualities. Im assertive when it matters, confident before all this, I love others as they are....yet so much is taken from me. What made me happy, what I cared about wasnt money, games, validation. No, its having a safe secure household, getting the kids to sleep, kissing W on her head and having her fall asleep on my chest and in my arms. I fulfilled my role as a man, to create, provide for and keep a loving family safe and feeling loved. Or so I thought.

While wrapped in my own emotions, I didn't know W was hurting as she was. It would've been nice if she communicated as such but alas, I should've known how much she was pulling away. Divorce wasnt part of my vocabulary. I took my time to get treated and although I did before she asked for D, it was too late.

I've read too much on psychology and relationships now, I cant see having another one this day and age, and it is all I wanted. To have my kids at home and sleep next to someone who loved me for me. Here's the thing, loving a man as themselves is a fairytale or at least it is for me. If I act as my 100 percent fun, sometimes goofy, self depreciating humor self, few women I've ever known would be attracted. Some may like it but not be attracted and thus, dead bedroom would ensue and there goes intimacy. I'm content with a mediocre job so i can have more time with loved ones. Many people are not attracted to that. One must have a drive and purpose to be attractive. Well, what i wanted and strove for I mentioned already. I have it or had. Now I'll never have it and well without what I wanted in life, life is that much darker. I'm not saying I hate life or I need to call a hotline, its just the cold and hard reality I'm facing. I don't want to be rich, own a business, fight for power, look superior or higher value to others. No, I just wanted to share love and be loved for to me, thats why I'm here and why we're all here on earth. If I'm not pursuing a higher purpose, gaining power, etc then well unfortunately due to human nature, I'm invisible to a massive number of women. Add to that I'm under 6ft, personality means almost nothing to the millennial generation, I'll be bankrupt from child support and well, I dont have much to offer. Reality is, most seek someone whom has something to offer them. Relationships are transactional now, versus survival in the best. Theres always someone better or new to chase and thats what many people want. Life to most is just getting dopamine hits.

I'll make the best of what I still have, I just know it won't be the same. I know its better than living with someone that didnt love me. I am ready to build back up to my level of comfort and do what i need to, to have a happy home for the kids 50 percent of the time. I have hobbies to get me by, and friends to enjoy. There is still joy to have in this life, but whats got me today is that I'll never have that same highpoint and its no longer achievable. Even if W and I worked it out, Ill always know she wanted OM and that she discarded me at a low point like I was trash, she'll probably feel like shes settling. We were so different the first 6 years. She married hoping I'd change, and I married hoping she wouldn't.

Sincerely, struggling with accepting reality for what it is.
Posted By: Mumin

Re: Filed for D - 09/02/20 08:12 PM

Hi core, sorry you are struggling! I have seen a lot of strength from you on these boards and I am sure you will find it!
I don't have time rn for a long post but there was something that stuck out to me in your post.
Hav you read no more Mr nice guy?

This here, is textbook NGS:
"Its not what I was told it would be. The book, friends, parents led me to believe that good things came to good people. Trying hard and being decent would lead to a nice life. Being loving, working hard, putting others first would lead to a happy marriage."
Posted By: BB205

Re: Filed for D - 09/02/20 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by sandi2
Quote
I do have to say the anger is good in a way. Gave me the energy to turn things around. I have stopped harboring hate...maybe I am moving towards forgiveness.


There use to be a lady here by the name of Vanilla. She had been in an abusive MR, and later she would say that getting angry was good.......b/c it gave her courage, instead of fear. I saw the same sitch with my sister. After her wayward, abusive spouse left her for OW......she got angry......good and angry! She would tell me that she wanted him to suffer. Thankfully, she was able to move on with her life and doesn't focus on him and the past. She didn't become a prisoner to watching him, and hoping he'd pay for how he treated her. Actually, she is much, much happier now. And guess what? It didn't take another man to make her happy. She did it all on her own.

I believe forgiveness comes from our own volition. It has nothing to do with whether or not the offender deserves forgiveness. It has nothing to do with whether or not the offender asks for our forgiveness. It can't be earned by the offender. It really has nothing to do with the other person, nor the sin they've committed. Forgiveness is an act of grace.

Sounds simple, but it's not so easy when lives have been altered as a result of another person's actions. Based on years of personal observation, most people need time to process the trauma and raw emotions. Even if they understand that forgiveness is for their own sake, they just can't match it with their current feelings. Some people seek spiritual/professional help to get through this passage of time, while others can work through it alone. I've personally seen individuals hold onto so much bitterness, nobody wanted to be around them. These are the ones who wouldn't let go of the wrong done to them. They kept the pain fresh and refused to move forward.

For whatever my words are worth, I encourage you to be kind to yourself. Give yourself some time to process everything. If you need help, then get it. The lessons we learn from life can be very painful. Whatever wisdom you gain from this experience......don't waste it.






Posted By: Yail

Re: Filed for D - 09/02/20 09:58 PM

Core, your most recent was so insightful. Your third paragraph I could have written.

Responding to your third paragraph specifically...yes. I know you know this, but it (grief) comes in waves. You're feeling a different wave now but it's all part of the same process. I think this is one that people here don't talk about - the one where the LBS finally starts looking inward. Truly inward, and seeing things they don't like. But also accepting it. I've had a few different waves of that, that we are all good yet imperfect people. I too have regrets on things I can't change, yet pride in who I am as a person. And accepting our flaws is hard because we can't go up to our WAS and say, "Look, see? I figured it out. I changed. I'm sorry, but I get it now". So the learning is a very solo act, and that's probably the hardest part of the growth.

Your 5th paragraph: That's a fine place to be now if it feels authentic to you. I suspect it's not true from an objective outsider's perspective, but that's not my call to make. Just leave room to be wrong here, k? Or to change your mind, if you wish to. You're in charge.

I'm going through a major upheaval at work. There's a lot of complaining about it. My colleague and I have taken to reminding each other, "This is what change looks like. It's hard in the moment.". So we accept that it's not ideal right now, but that all change for good and bad is difficult in the transition. It's not even a "get through it" kind of mentality, more of a "this is what is happening right now, this is reality. Live in it and acknowledge it for what it is."

Your post struck me because I was there pretty recently in one of my cycles post D. I'm now riding the most incredible high due to things that I couldn't have forseen. Leave your doors open for something unforseen, k?
Posted By: unchien

Re: Filed for D - 09/02/20 11:00 PM

Core ~

I feel for you and I post because I care and see a lot of myself in you. I always prefer 2x4 feedback so if I come across harshly I am sorry.

Originally Posted by Core
. I am ashamed for not treating my anxiety sooner, not understanding my wife better and being oblivious to how bad things were for her. This is my current emotions darkening everything...frankly life isnt great. Its not what I was told it would be. The book, friends, parents led me to believe that good things came to good people. Trying hard and being decent would lead to a nice life. Being loving, working hard, putting others first would lead to a happy marriage. I'm not greedy, selfish, rude. I have what I'm told are great qualities. Im assertive when it matters, confident before all this, I love others as they are....yet so much is taken from me. What made me happy, what I cared about wasnt money, games, validation. No, its having a safe secure household, getting the kids to sleep, kissing W on her head and having her fall asleep on my chest and in my arms. I fulfilled my role as a man, to create, provide for and keep a loving family safe and feeling loved. Or so I thought.

Shame, guilt ... classic NGS. Shame and guilt tell you you are fundamentally "bad". Have some self-compassion, you regret some things from your past, you are working on owning them. Everybody has issues... many people don't address them at all.

I'm sorry that society and culture and your parents taught you about a fairy tale life. Bad things happen to good people. It [censored], it happens. But you are not a passive victim. You outsourced your happiness to your family, to your wife, to your kids. Re-read about NGS.

I did all of the above. I know what you are feeling. I feel like I could have written that at one point.

Originally Posted by Core
While wrapped in my own emotions, I didn't know W was hurting as she was. It would've been nice if she communicated as such but alas, I should've known how much she was pulling away. Divorce wasnt part of my vocabulary. I took my time to get treated and although I did before she asked for D, it was too late.

You are responsible for your part, and she is responsible for hers. You're going to have to let it go. Work on your part.

Originally Posted by Core
I've read too much on psychology and relationships now, I cant see having another one this day and age, and it is all I wanted. To have my kids at home and sleep next to someone who loved me for me. Here's the thing, loving a man as themselves is a fairytale or at least it is for me. If I act as my 100 percent fun, sometimes goofy, self depreciating humor self, few women I've ever known would be attracted. Some may like it but not be attracted and thus, dead bedroom would ensue and there goes intimacy. I'm content with a mediocre job so i can have more time with loved ones. Many people are not attracted to that. One must have a drive and purpose to be attractive. Well, what i wanted and strove for I mentioned already. I have it or had. Now I'll never have it and well without what I wanted in life, life is that much darker. I'm not saying I hate life or I need to call a hotline, its just the cold and hard reality I'm facing. I don't want to be rich, own a business, fight for power, look superior or higher value to others. No, I just wanted to share love and be loved for to me, thats why I'm here and why we're all here on earth. If I'm not pursuing a higher purpose, gaining power, etc then well unfortunately due to human nature, I'm invisible to a massive number of women. Add to that I'm under 6ft, personality means almost nothing to the millennial generation, I'll be bankrupt from child support and well, I dont have much to offer. Reality is, most seek someone whom has something to offer them. Relationships are transactional now, versus survival in the best. Theres always someone better or new to chase and thats what many people want. Life to most is just getting dopamine hits.

Core, this is a crock. I hope you can re-read the above and see how many cognitive distortions are in that paragraph.

What do you want out of life? Do you want a fairy-tale relationship that you were sold? If so, you will absolutely be disappointed.

Reading between the lines, I sense you still value a woman's approval and think somehow you carry less value because you think women won't be attracted to you. Please think about that. Relationships can augment happiness but they can't create it out of thin air.

There are tons of women out there looking for a nice, funny, caring single dad. If you're like me, you are thinking "Whatever, he doesn't get it". I do get it. I thought the same way. Then I tried out dating and found I was wrong.

Originally Posted by Core
I'll make the best of what I still have, I just know it won't be the same. I know its better than living with someone that didnt love me. I am ready to build back up to my level of comfort and do what i need to, to have a happy home for the kids 50 percent of the time. I have hobbies to get me by, and friends to enjoy. There is still joy to have in this life, but whats got me today is that I'll never have that same highpoint and its no longer achievable. Even if W and I worked it out, Ill always know she wanted OM and that she discarded me at a low point like I was trash, she'll probably feel like shes settling. We were so different the first 6 years. She married hoping I'd change, and I married hoping she wouldn't.

You're right, your life won't be the same. You are going to get through this and be happier. It's going to be rough sailing. Today I'm struggling big-time too. But just know that YOU define your happiness, not your W, not another woman, not kids, not anybody. YOU. Take control of what you can and ignore the rest.

You CAN do this!
Posted By: may22

Re: Filed for D - 09/02/20 11:12 PM

Hi Core,

I just wanted to chime in to say that what you say above resonates so, so much with me too. It is a big part of the reason I've been willing to scarf down so many $hit sandwiches on chance, even if it is just 1%, that we can come out of this on the other side stronger and better together.

That being said... I have to say that the way you describe yourself-- fun, goofy, self-deprecating, family over job, wanting nothing more than going to sleep each night with someone you love and who loves you back... I don't know what women you hang out with but I can assure you that those are the qualities I would look for first in a partner and any of my close friends with whom I talk about this stuff would be the same. I think humor is incredibly attractive and I know I'm not alone. Money, ambition, power, prestige... in my experience, men who seek those things are usually a-holes. As U says, there ARE tons of single women out there looking for someone just like you. And, I know couples who have totally found what you describe in a second marriage. There is a whole wide world out there waiting for you.

Yail once said to me-- don't write your future before you get to it. That has stuck with me quite a bit. She's saying something similar to you-- leave your doors open for something unforeseen-- but I'll also gift back her words to me of not writing your future today in case that resonates in a different way.

Hang in there.

May
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 09/04/20 02:17 AM

Mumin and U - I agree and disagree on the NGS comments partially. Read and thought that book was great by the way. Here's what I'm trying to work through....I see that I expect certain outcomes by behaving a certain way. My confusion is that I want to behave the way I do. I'm not changing who I am to get something. I don't have a covert contract with just a person, its like I have an expectation that the universe itself will fulfill what I perceived as a reward for good behavior. Maybe I've a covert contract with a higher power. The shame, guilt and outsourcing my happiness, thats definitely NGS haunting me again.

And U, lol at calling out the cognitive distortions. I find them easy to believe as there are daily examples. Those looking for a single dad, do they want the security, the feelings or the man himself? The same can be asked of me as well, am i looking for the stability, sex, happiness or the woman herself to compliment me? Right now I know I'd be looking for the wrong thing.

Yail - youre right about waves. Within a few hours of hitting the board here, I started coming out the other side and a huge part of it was that I was again dealing internally with my part of the martial demise and pain I caused my W. I hope Im wrong on my 5th paragraph as well, I really do. If it were not for my D4, and also seeing the ladies on this board fighting hard to save themselves and their drive for a happy marriage, I may have lost hope of the feminine side of the coin, from the damage done by my W and others in my past. Thank you for your encouraging post.

May - the $hit sandwiches are an acquired taste. Hopefully one doesnt get used to them. I've had my share of negative reinforcement on the relationship end. W was the first woman I really opened up to after years of bad picks on my end. I went for certain types which was my fault. My W I was different with. I fell for her personality over all other features. Still scorned on my end, plenty of which is my fault as well. I came across a stat saying that spouses of my personality type are the most unhappy of all types. Outside of me victiming here again, I hear your take. I can face the future when I get there. If some of this is true, its probably better I dont get in a R but I can decide that later. Your words and the others here do help.

I'm coming around the wave and this victim phase again and see some of the bright side of the days to come. W is dragging her feet. Not battling thankfully but moving slow and she missed a cut off date which is bringing the cost of this up higher if Im to continue pushing this through. There's probably a reason for the stall which is beneficial to her and who knows what for me. I remember her saying she needs to D as fast as possible at the beginning of the sitch. My IC picked up on PTSD related to the D and is going to try EMD for it. We'll see how it goes.
Posted By: unchien

Re: Filed for D - 09/04/20 03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Core
Mumin and U - I agree and disagree on the NGS comments partially. Read and thought that book was great by the way. Here's what I'm trying to work through....I see that I expect certain outcomes by behaving a certain way. My confusion is that I want to behave the way I do. I'm not changing who I am to get something. I don't have a covert contract with just a person, its like I have an expectation that the universe itself will fulfill what I perceived as a reward for good behavior. Maybe I've a covert contract with a higher power. The shame, guilt and outsourcing my happiness, thats definitely NGS haunting me again.

I'll go easy this time =)

I have an expectation that the universe itself will fulfill what I perceived as a reward for good behavior.

What do you mean by this?

Originally Posted by Core
And U, lol at calling out the cognitive distortions. I find them easy to believe as there are daily examples. Those looking for a single dad, do they want the security, the feelings or the man himself? The same can be asked of me as well, am i looking for the stability, sex, happiness or the woman herself to compliment me? Right now I know I'd be looking for the wrong thing.


I totally get that you can think yourself into a pretzel. The very concept of being in a relationship can look co-dependent and unhealthy from your vantage point.

The fact is, there are tons of women looking for a nice, funny, single dad. And "women" aren't just a single type. They don't all want the same thing.

Regardless I think it's good to sort out what you want first. All I'm saying is don't worry about whether or not there will be available women out there if and when the time comes. And don't settle just because you found somebody who will spend time with you.
Posted By: IronWill

Re: Filed for D - 09/04/20 01:32 PM

Core - the others have given you sage advice, so i won't pile on.

Instead I'll leave you with this quote:

"ďPositive thinking is powerful thinking. If you want happiness, fulfillment, success and inner peace, start thinking you have the power to achieve those things. Focus on the bright side of life and expect positive results. Ē

- Germany Kent


Nobody will do it for you. You have to do it yourself.

Life is hard. Bad things happen to good people all the time. Its our choice to pick up and move forward, its our responsibility to learn the lesson and use the experiences to grow and change.

Take care, man smile
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 09/05/20 06:55 PM

U and IW, thank you. I understand and know the universe doesnt reward good people but in the end, man social conditioning does make you think you'd at least have it a little better.

W and I have been getting along with the pressure off now, knowing were filing. Things are going slow however. I temp checked last night after the kids went to bed. I asked if she wants to do this. I didnt say where I was, just asked her take. She took her time and said that she thinks she does and shes following me through the D as I filed. Immediately after I was blamed for making her feel like a bad person and she had numerous reasons for wanting to D. I mentioned something she said in the past and completely denied saying it. I'm reminded that I'm losing a gaslighter, liar here yet she looks like she really believed her lie. Had a bunch of reasons why she wouldnt have said what she said then put it on me. This whole interaction from us both was calm.

I was thinking the other day...I dont think W thought she'd want back in the M. She doesnt know how to return, how to get through the feelings or what she did so she's throwing it away which is easier than looking inward. I really see that I'm going to be fine without her or anyone for that matter but I would rather have a home with two parents for the kids. I see the love would never be the same but then....it never wouldve been anyway. No one even in a happy marriage gets back to the high points. I've been enjoying us taking on the kids together. She often said I have a list of things I dont like about her and yet she last night is the one with a list for why to D. Many of the things are really just pains of living with another human. The stuff she had just bounced off me. In the end however I'm saddened for her as it seems she will not be a peace with any adult unless she gets help.

Should I have brought up the topic, of course not but I chose to as I was filling with regret for not having that last R chat before filing. With her being very much a follower, I have to wonder if she's waiting on me to say something. If I'm vulnerable and say....you know, I dont truly want this, maybe we would rebound. Who knows. I haven't seen actions on her end so I continue thinking I made the right choice and that we'll perhaps have an amicable D. Im honestly ok working on the R or Ding at this point. Ding probably being the better option here. When W is being decent, I actually miss her a little. I sometimes think things must be so much easier for the WW to be able to rewrite the past and make it dark. The bad times I mostly saw as temporary and insignificant. The good times I remember well. Thats what I think is the hardest part, remembering the M being decent. Im surely out of the fog after a year and can say, there really was no good reason for the M to disintegrate as it did. Thats from my perspective however and I know W with her past and her life experiences is built differently, has different thresholds and different wiring.

I cant wait for the end of this sitch. Its taxing. It seems two people who genuinely care for another are tearing apart a family because one holds on to every negative thing in the past as a protection mechanism.
Posted By: unchien

Re: Filed for D - 09/07/20 03:04 PM

Core ~ this stuff is hard. Gut punches every day.

You initiated an R talk. Pressure pressure.

I notice you sometimes do this and tell us you know you shouldnít have but you just couldnít help yourself. I have anxiety too and I know itís hard but focus on that impulse control. Nothing good comes out of these R talks, you are just temporarily soothing your anxiety (as I see it) by dumping it out.

Hang in there buddy.
Posted By: may22

Re: Filed for D - 09/07/20 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Core
I was thinking the other day...I dont think W thought she'd want back in the M. She doesnt know how to return, how to get through the feelings or what she did so she's throwing it away which is easier than looking inward.

FWIW, my H has said this to me fairly explicitly. He assumed the moment the A went physical that our M was over as I would kick him out the moment I found out, and grieved the end of our M long before I even realized it was in trouble. That it would be easier for him to forgive himself if we S/D than stay M. He's held onto this narrative for a long long time.

What I am coming to realize is... all this thinking and processing, trying to figure out where his head is... does no good. It just doesn't matter. He'll have what it takes to look inward and do the hard work, figure out how to realign his own vision of himself with what he's done, or not. Work on trying to get over AP or not. Make amends for what he's done or not. Work on our M or not.

Your W may be in a similar headspace. It may be true that the only reason you're moving down the D path is that she is clinging to made-up negativity in order to protect herself from doing the hard work. I think that is honestly pretty par for the course around here. WASs aren't all bad people. But they make bad choices and can't find their way out of them. They don't want to really own what they've done and so build up stories to tell themselves about how the LBS is so bad, they can never be happy with them, etc.

And... you can't do that work for your W. She'll either do it, or she won't. So far, she hasn't shown she has what it takes to do that work over the long haul. You initiating an R talk like that seems to me it would do a couple of things on her end-- pressure her back into her corner and her cause her to reinforce her own narrative, and remind her you're still there. (Simply asking her if she still wants to move forward with D shows that you're having second thoughts. If you weren't, you wouldn't ask. (I mean, if you weren't having second thoughts and asked and she said actually yes I am, that would be a pretty d!ck move.)

So.... just another reinforcement for you to skip the R talks, and let her do her thing while you focus on you. The work is hers and you can't do it for her, or make her want to do it. Focus on what it takes to make you happy and healthy.
Posted By: IronWill

Re: Filed for D - 09/08/20 11:40 AM

Hi Core -

Ok, so you initiated an R talk. And once again you got blasted and sent reeling.

I'm not trying to be rough, but do you see the cause and effect sequence here?

1. You initiate R talk.
2. W says something that gives you glimmer of hope.
3. W says something that dashes that hope.
4. You feel awful.

This is why DB says R talks are a no-no.

Every time you have to put yourself back together. And every time you put yourself back together, you are actually moving yourself farther away from the chance of Recon or successful co-parenting R in the future.

R talks are pressure for her and only build resentment for you.

Posted By: unchien

Re: Filed for D - 09/14/20 04:06 PM

Core ~

Any updates?
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Filed for D - 09/14/20 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Core
I see that I expect certain outcomes by behaving a certain way.



This is the very definition of NGS! "If I am nice then I deserve X!"

Wrong. It doesn't work that way. It's great that you want to behave that way. Being nice because it is the right thing to do is awesome. But God, the universe, karma (I don't believe there is such a thing) owes you NOTHING for being nice. In fact, an unfortunate side effect of our society is that the people that do the right things are not rewarded, at least in this life. It is often the evil-doers that succeed in this world.

This doesn't advocate for being an evil-doer, quite the contrary. Success in this life is not going to translate in the next. Those they stole and cheated and behaved poorly to become billionaires in this life will not get to take that with them into the next. This is what Matthew 6:19-21 is teaching!

The danger in having the philosophy that good things come to them that do good, bad things to those that do bad is that none of us is perfect! So we are all deserving of bad things if that were true.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 09/16/20 05:37 PM

U thanks for checking in and May, Steve, IW and U, the feedback is helpful. IW I think youre right on how the R talks further cause a chasm.

I continue to struggle not with the reality but the principles. I only believe divorce is the answer in extreme circumstances. Since it was likely to happen either way and since I'm the bread winner, the gov I'm "married to" led me to the decision that I needed to pull the plug. I see my kids happy daily with a two parent household and I still attest that family and love are why we are here on earth. Family first, always. Having it pulled away and my part of it being pulled away I'm coming to terms with as wrong as I think it is.

I've forgiven myself. I came to terms yesterday. I didn't do anything heinous, I had a personal battle to get through and that was ok to do. My wife while affected by my anxiety and ptsd, was not a target and I did not hurt intentionally, if I truly did at all. My actions have been to preserve the M and family, with the exception of filing to cover myself. I disagree with the morality behind my filing but do agree with the need to do it for self preservation.

We are getting closer to a settlement. I am enraged over the fact that I'm likely on the hook for 19 years of child support. On top of that, I'm driven to improve and advance so as I move up in career and society, my ExW who had an affair and ruined my dreams for our family gets a better life every raise I get via child support. She is not driven and has been the type to stay in a low paying job. I get that the money should go to the kids however if 1200/month works ok today, why should she get 1600/m in two years solely because the kids should have a general standard of living at both places? The hard worker is punished. After doing the math, the payments are also way more than the actual cost to raise a child. This is looking at it as a victim I know, I just dont see the positive. My W gets a guaranteed income for 19 years that will likely grow and will generally continue even if I lose my job or cannot obtain a job of similar pay and am underemployed. She has a guaranteed income and I a guaranteed debt. The debt being longer and higher than my current mortgage. The cost of my kids right now, is about 400/m. 1200/m is asinine PLUS alimony. She will actually make more than me if she has a minimum wage job due to my payments to her. It feels like a form of slavery for me to be indebted with a woman who rejected me and my family. Not for 1 to 2 years to get her on her feet but 19 years. For her, I believe in thoughts from Sandi and others that a WW has to hit bottom to change. Well since the state will have me paying enough in child support to get a 3 br townhouse in the best neighborhood here, she'll not hit bottom and may never see growth that could help her and my kids which I'd be happy to see. I'll be forced to always bail her out, which hinders growth from us both.

My W becomes more polarized. Her disregard and disrespect for men in general seems to grow when we talk about the state of the world. I cant think of a man in her life she respects which worries me for my son. I see it alot already, she punishes some of his actions which are masculine traits seen in most boys. I will not be joining in on raising him the exact same way as my daughter. They are different and its ok to raise them differently. I am raising him and my daughter to help ensure their happiness and success. She stopped her counseling as soon as she was served so I know it was only done to give me breadcrumbs and keep me from filing, for whatever reason (s). My fondness of her took a large hit from this.

Overall, my disdain is moving from my sitch to the state. 19 years of those payments means I wont retire early and cant slowly retire through hour reduction or job status lowering for quite some time. I will be a servant to the system. I'll see my W live in luxury, probably in our house while I live in a 2 BR apartment or with my father. I make just enough to not get any assistance yet I would qualify if you consider what I earn after paying her mortgage via child support. This has me struggling on self improvement. No point earning more and getting a 2nd job if I'll owe her that much more and it'll become the new amount I have to pay for up to 19 years. It's like W is rewarded for divorcing and i am punished. I'm losing money, a friend, a wife and half my kids childhoods, she gains financially, loses half the time with the kids and gets someone who was "toxic" not just mostly out of her life but she gets to see me punished for a 3rd to a quarter of life.
Posted By: ovrrnbw

Re: Filed for D - 09/16/20 06:23 PM

Core,

the child support thing is out of your control. Her hitting rock bottom is out of your control. The challenge in life is being indifferent towards indifferent things so that you can direct your energy to things within your control and live a morally sound life. Put that energy into your job or children where it is a sound investment.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Filed for D - 09/17/20 05:16 PM

Oh my gosh Core, that is INSANE!!! Are you in the US? If so, what state? That really blows my mind, that sounds extremely archaic, like a leftover from the old days when men worked and women stayed at home. Texas doesn't even have alimony, and the child support is usually pretty evenly split. Very sorry you're getting hit with that, it really does sound very unfair. But like ovr said, what choice do you have but to accept the things you can't control and move on with your life. If it's any consolation I doubt your money will improve her quality of life. She's still going to be a miserable cheater no matter how much money the courts force you to throw at her.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 09/28/20 11:52 AM

Quick update here, as far as the D, we've come to terms and are ready to settle. I'm sure she'll change her mind but I have hope for the settlement as I'm giving up a vehicle in lieu of child support, keeping the state out of things. Not sure what can all be written in to law.

She's asking we combine holidays birthdays etc. Says even if were dating others that she's ok with all gathering. If I were dating someone else, she'd like to get close to them since they'd be around the kids often and even have then join shared Christmas. This is to me messed up on countless levels. This woman must've never actually loved me. Clearly has no respect and is living a fantasy. Why would I bring someone around my adulterous ExW? I'm not going to be buddy buddy with any new man in her life, especially if its the one who walked in to my marriage.

I'm still getting over the fact that my long time friend/partner/wife/soulmate had an affair. I was ready to spend this life and the next with her if there was one. Counseling is helping but I think I'm going to carry the burden for my shortened from stress, life.
Posted By: BL42

Re: Filed for D - 09/28/20 12:51 PM

Core,

Originally Posted by Core
I am enraged over the fact that I'm likely on the hook for 19 years of child support. On top of that, I'm driven to improve and advance so as I move up in career and society, my ExW who had an affair and ruined my dreams for our family gets a better life every raise I get via child support. She is not driven and has been the type to stay in a low paying job. I get that the money should go to the kids however if 1200/month works ok today, why should she get 1600/m in two years solely because the kids should have a general standard of living at both places? The hard worker is punished. After doing the math, the payments are also way more than the actual cost to raise a child. This is looking at it as a victim I know, I just dont see the positive. My W gets a guaranteed income for 19 years that will likely grow and will generally continue even if I lose my job or cannot obtain a job of similar pay and am underemployed. She has a guaranteed income and I a guaranteed debt. The debt being longer and higher than my current mortgage. The cost of my kids right now, is about 400/m. 1200/m is asinine PLUS alimony. She will actually make more than me if she has a minimum wage job due to my payments to her. It feels like a form of slavery for me to be indebted with a woman who rejected me and my family. Not for 1 to 2 years to get her on her feet but 19 years. For her, I believe in thoughts from Sandi and others that a WW has to hit bottom to change. Well since the state will have me paying enough in child support to get a 3 br townhouse in the best neighborhood here, she'll not hit bottom and may never see growth that could help her and my kids which I'd be happy to see. I'll be forced to always bail her out, which hinders growth from us both.

Wow, do I empathize with you. I have S5 and D2, so also have 19 years of child support despite my W having an affair and breaking up our family. We both share the kids 50/50 in agreement (though in practice I've actually had them more nights and days in the last few months) and yet in my state if it's 50/50 the lower earner is considered the custodial parent in terms of child support and there is no distinction in the statute scaling the amount based on time with the kids, so if it's 50/50 or 80/20 you can pay the same amount. It seems ridiculous. Paying $1500/month when I'm actually watching the kids more. I'm still buying groceries, clothes...etc for the kids.

Sorry man. It [censored], I know. But to ovrrnbw's point it's out of our control - nothing we can do about it.

Originally Posted by Core
My W becomes more polarized. Her disregard and disrespect for men in general seems to grow when we talk about the state of the world. I cant think of a man in her life she respects which worries me for my son.

I just had a conversation yesterday with my parents about respect. Looking back on it I've seen disrespect from my W to many people, including her own family members (though not necessarily men vs. women). Maybe not egregious, but perhaps red flags I should've noticed. When you're on her good side you feel like her best friend, but when she shuts you out (not just me but anyone) you're completely cut off and disrespected. Apparently she's been disrespected me behind my back for quite some time and I was unaware. This forum talks a lot about respect and that's one of the traits I'm going to look at specifically in future relationships.

Originally Posted by Core
Overall, my disdain is moving from my sitch to the state. 19 years of those payments means I wont retire early and cant slowly retire through hour reduction or job status lowering for quite some time. I will be a servant to the system.

As I said above, I hear you. It's a ridiculous system. Sorry.
Posted By: BL42

Re: Filed for D - 09/28/20 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Core
I'm still getting over the fact that my long time friend/partner/wife/soulmate had an affair. I was ready to spend this life and the next with her if there was one. Counseling is helping but I think I'm going to carry the burden for my shortened from stress, life.

Yeah...it's tough. Hang in there.
Posted By: unchien

Re: Filed for D - 09/28/20 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Core
She's asking we combine holidays birthdays etc. Says even if were dating others that she's ok with all gathering. If I were dating someone else, she'd like to get close to them since they'd be around the kids often and even have then join shared Christmas. This is to me messed up on countless levels. This woman must've never actually loved me. Clearly has no respect and is living a fantasy. Why would I bring someone around my adulterous ExW? I'm not going to be buddy buddy with any new man in her life, especially if its the one who walked in to my marriage.

This is certainly a bizarre request. Are you saying she is not willing to memorialize a holiday schedule because she assumes you will share holidays?
Posted By: ovrrnbw

Re: Filed for D - 09/28/20 06:18 PM

I think that is a strange request too. I'd say no, or say let's leave that as TBD b/c I just need time to get through this emotionally and then we'll plan holidays. Try to garner a little sympathy but nothing over the top.

There's no chance I'd actually do that though!
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 09/28/20 08:29 PM

Such a mind F. I was dumb last night and told her during a chat we had about splitting furniture, (not an R chat) that I'm asking for a little bit more because I have to deal with the betrayal for the rest of my life. She told me she didnt want any of this either and that I betrayed her worse than she did to me. I dont understand how thats possible. What did I do that was so bad? I know no one here has the answer. I've reflected on everything for over a year and see no big betrayal. Some arguments but never yelling on my end, nor name calling. I think the worst I did was tell her not to come home one time in the heat of the moment.
Posted By: BL42

Re: Filed for D - 09/28/20 08:36 PM

My W is mad at me for betraying her trust because I looked at her phone...to confirm she was having an affair with a married co-worker IN the office! It's complete BS. They're just trying to justify their behavior and make what they're doing alright in their minds. Doesn't help the actual situation you're in but keep telling yourself she's in the wrong, not you...because IT'S NOT YOU!
Posted By: IronWill

Re: Filed for D - 09/28/20 11:31 PM

Sorry you're dealing with this, Core.

It [censored]. There's no two ways about it.

Leave W to her chaos. Don't get involved in ridiculous ideas for co-birthdays.

I would say "we'll see what happens". Its non-committal and kind without being defensive or binding.
Remember - you cannot understand illogical thinking using logic.

Rise above. Be the light. Turn the other cheek. Be AMOAFWL.
Posted By: unchien

Re: Filed for D - 09/29/20 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Core
Such a mind F. I was dumb last night and told her during a chat we had about splitting furniture, (not an R chat) that I'm asking for a little bit more because I have to deal with the betrayal for the rest of my life.

C'mon Core...

Originally Posted by Core
She told me she didnt want any of this either and that I betrayed her worse than she did to me. I dont understand how thats possible. What did I do that was so bad? I know no one here has the answer. I've reflected on everything for over a year and see no big betrayal. Some arguments but never yelling on my end, nor name calling. I think the worst I did was tell her not to come home one time in the heat of the moment.

You are assuming that her brain/thought/emotions work the same way that yours do.

Core, it is ALL about the narrative.

She has her version of reality, her narrative. It doesn't have to make sense to anybody except her. Just like your version.
Just like mine.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 09/29/20 05:43 PM

U, IW, Ovr and Bl, thanks for stopping by and adding perspective.

I tell you, this isnt getting any easier. If we were in conflict or the affair was still happening, I've no doubt this would be harder that it is. Being without conflict is causing a different pain....a why arent we working on the M and letting the love slowly die pain. A friend told me that I haven't yet mourned the death of the marriage because it is indeed still dying and W is killing it. That really resonated. I'm thankful that my kids continue to thrive. They seem blissfully unaware.

I've cut back on some self improvement. Not completely thankfully however I'm not working on developing a more attractive personality or learning about relationships. I don't want to go through this again and am checking out of relationships unless its a tinder fling once I'm D'd. There isn't much to get from a modern relationship in my opinion and traditional is out of the question for a few reasons. I loved intensely and married once, I think I'll keep it that way. I still feel some love for W despite all this. After almost a year I still want to give her a kiss or sneak up and put my arms around her. To have but one life and throw so much away, I'll never understand. As U mentioned though, its all in the narrative and W thinks she tossing out a dusty pebble and perhaps will pick up a shiny marble. Maybe she will. I had some short term vengeance feelings which thankfully passed. More and more the victim mindset that is ingrained in me lifts. Much remains to continue clearing.

Part of my want to recon is knowing I don't want a future relationship. Besides looks pulling me in, I've not felt attraction to someone other than my wife in a long time. Partly due to my preferences and some to do with society changing, much to do with my personality type.

Forward I go. IW if you read this, I tried EMDR and it was pretty helpful in the short term. I know you mentioned it once. Worth a try. Problem is it took my anger and love filled it in which is painful as well. Not sure which is better.

Cheers.
Posted By: Drh2001

Re: Filed for D - 10/01/20 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by Core
U thanks for checking in and May, Steve, IW and U, the feedback is helpful. IW I think youre right on how the R talks further cause a chasm.

I continue to struggle not with the reality but the principles. I only believe divorce is the answer in extreme circumstances. Since it was likely to happen either way and since I'm the bread winner, the gov I'm "married to" led me to the decision that I needed to pull the plug. I see my kids happy daily with a two parent household and I still attest that family and love are why we are here on earth. Family first, always. Having it pulled away and my part of it being pulled away I'm coming to terms with as wrong as I think it is.

I've forgiven myself. I came to terms yesterday. I didn't do anything heinous, I had a personal battle to get through and that was ok to do. My wife while affected by my anxiety and ptsd, was not a target and I did not hurt intentionally, if I truly did at all. My actions have been to preserve the M and family, with the exception of filing to cover myself. I disagree with the morality behind my filing but do agree with the need to do it for self preservation.

We are getting closer to a settlement. I am enraged over the fact that I'm likely on the hook for 19 years of child support. On top of that, I'm driven to improve and advance so as I move up in career and society, my ExW who had an affair and ruined my dreams for our family gets a better life every raise I get via child support. She is not driven and has been the type to stay in a low paying job. I get that the money should go to the kids however if 1200/month works ok today, why should she get 1600/m in two years solely because the kids should have a general standard of living at both places? The hard worker is punished. After doing the math, the payments are also way more than the actual cost to raise a child. This is looking at it as a victim I know, I just dont see the positive. My W gets a guaranteed income for 19 years that will likely grow and will generally continue even if I lose my job or cannot obtain a job of similar pay and am underemployed. She has a guaranteed income and I a guaranteed debt. The debt being longer and higher than my current mortgage. The cost of my kids right now, is about 400/m. 1200/m is asinine PLUS alimony. She will actually make more than me if she has a minimum wage job due to my payments to her. It feels like a form of slavery for me to be indebted with a woman who rejected me and my family. Not for 1 to 2 years to get her on her feet but 19 years. For her, I believe in thoughts from Sandi and others that a WW has to hit bottom to change. Well since the state will have me paying enough in child support to get a 3 br townhouse in the best neighborhood here, she'll not hit bottom and may never see growth that could help her and my kids which I'd be happy to see. I'll be forced to always bail her out, which hinders growth from us both.

My W becomes more polarized. Her disregard and disrespect for men in general seems to grow when we talk about the state of the world. I cant think of a man in her life she respects which worries me for my son. I see it alot already, she punishes some of his actions which are masculine traits seen in most boys. I will not be joining in on raising him the exact same way as my daughter. They are different and its ok to raise them differently. I am raising him and my daughter to help ensure their happiness and success. She stopped her counseling as soon as she was served so I know it was only done to give me breadcrumbs and keep me from filing, for whatever reason (s). My fondness of her took a large hit from this.

Overall, my disdain is moving from my sitch to the state. 19 years of those payments means I wont retire early and cant slowly retire through hour reduction or job status lowering for quite some time. I will be a servant to the system. I'll see my W live in luxury, probably in our house while I live in a 2 BR apartment or with my father. I make just enough to not get any assistance yet I would qualify if you consider what I earn after paying her mortgage via child support. This has me struggling on self improvement. No point earning more and getting a 2nd job if I'll owe her that much more and it'll become the new amount I have to pay for up to 19 years. It's like W is rewarded for divorcing and i am punished. I'm losing money, a friend, a wife and half my kids childhoods, she gains financially, loses half the time with the kids and gets someone who was "toxic" not just mostly out of her life but she gets to see me punished for a 3rd to a quarter of life.



Core. really sorry to hear this. I'm buying my WW out of the house but she is pressuring me to do it quicker so she can pay for her paramour to finish his basement so my two kids have a bedroom!!!

We're doing mediation and she has agreed to waive alimony as she'll be cohabiting with OM as soon as she moves out.

My kids are older than yours so I have less years to pay but it doesn't necessarily stop at 19. She can ask for more time if they go on to college. I would check what you state has to say about college.

Are you getting 50/50 joint custody? That will lower the child support somewhat. Also if you pay for their health insurance and any medical needs this helps.

I hope you get a better outcome.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 10/03/20 03:35 AM

The principle behind whats happening in your case is just awful Drh. I see why some of the laws are in place but in reality if the money stayed with you, it would be for the kids and not someone else's house! In the end you cant control how she uses it and shes going to follow her wayward feelings. I hope in the end, she does have the kids in mind.

My state extends Child Support through college however I can pay it directly to the kids versus W if thats the case. I'm working on a better outcome but like a real estate deal, I trust nothing until its finalized!
Posted By: unchien

Re: Filed for D - 10/03/20 02:57 PM

Core ~

As a D'd friend told me: "She's divorcing you, not your money."
Posted By: Mumin

Re: Filed for D - 10/03/20 08:54 PM

Quote
I trust nothing until its finalized!

The only way.
I can feel my hopes going up in my process but it also makes me aware of the potential outcomes I dont want.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 10/05/20 04:41 PM

Hope things go your way Mumin. U, thats a good saying.

W and I reached a settlement but its not yet signed. Now shes taking my kids on their first vacation for 9 days. I've never been away from them for even a day. She's going to a family reunion. I fear W getting the input of 20 family members and getting all kinds of expectations, killing the deal we worked hard to achieve. I've been debating telling her I'm not ok with them going but it seems wrong to do. Being nice on this could ruin me in the end. No to mention the virus risk of this gathering.

While she's gone, shes also not looking for work and of course I'm paying for the trip as the only one working. I cant wait for this to be over and finalized. No help needed here, just venting today. Users will be users.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 10/06/20 03:59 AM

As I say goodbye to my kids as they leave for their first vacation away from home which I do not get to be a part of, I fill with anger and hostility for the damaged human who caused this. I think of all the other firsts I'll miss and that the kids will miss having two parents enjoy. Days on days I'll be alone while W is on her third vacation since she emotionally left the M and 2nd since asking for a D. None of which she paid for. I resent that the kids and I have to deal with her consequences.

It disgusts me that of all the things that can hurt my children in this life, she may be doing the most damage. All over feelings that churned because of miscommunications, misunderstandings and her lack of addressing her past. Its not fair and life isn't but why god lets the sinner prosper is beyond me.

This woman was all about me early on. Saved items from our dates, scrapbooked our relationship, kept all our notes. Then one day we had a disagreement, I said something harsh but not over the top and she emotionally never fully returned. The forgiveness that she supposedly follows in church isnt in her. I forgave for her part in the argument within hours.

Her family encouraged the D, her friends encouraged it. Where in this picture is anyone with decency? I see how her mom runs from emotional conversations so I see where some of this came from. I've had her family in and out of the house the last few weeks and no one says a thing. Probably better that way but I really have trouble respecting any of them.

I have a feeling I'm going to be the bitter, angry, resentful guy. Even if W wanted me back, shes not at all what I want in a mate. The first several years of our R she had a mask on. Her real interests, wants, needs, opinions differ now. She used to be responsible, take ownership, and had accountability. Those things are gone. My W truly died in a way and she was an amazing person when she was alive. We were happy, always wanted to be together, always positive, had dreams and aspirations. Now this being has no empathy or sympathy for me or my family, we can barely converse and I am stuck with this version of her for countless years longer than I had my wife.

I saw a post of Mar's thread about the benefits of moving out and on right away. Perhaps that would've been better for her and I. I think for the kids, the path I chose was best. I have many haunting memories from snooping. The woman who though I was perfect and made a picture of all our movie tickets glue together was able to dismiss me, move on like I'm nothing and told herself and others awful things. Instead of good memories of our time filling her, shes turned me in to some villian. That's sad, and common how women process divorce. I know some of this because things get around.
I sit here following the script for how men process it.

Today and the last few days Ive been despising this woman. Its a horrible feeling. She hurt me and is hurting my kids and for what. We get one life, why the F would you destroy it and destroy it for others. Life was better when I was naive to all of this.
Posted By: BL42

Re: Filed for D - 10/06/20 11:35 AM

Core,

Wow, that was tough to read. I can relate to everything you wrote. I know how difficult it is to watch your kids leave for vacation without you, or to drop them off at "mommy's new house" for the first time. I know all those feelings you're describing, and I'm so sorry your wife is making those decisions and that you and your wife go through all that. Hang in there.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 10/06/20 03:30 PM

Thank you BL for the encouragement.

I full on broke down seeing the kids leave. I'd spent much time thinking of how the first family vacation would go. Now I dont get to experience it but I get to pay for it financially and emotionally. People have been through worse so I know I'll be ok but I'll not be ok with it.

Things my W has said "you are my everything. You are my world. Even if you get upset with me, I'd never let you divorce me. You make me the happiest person on earth. You are the love of my life". All BS.

Things my WW has said "I never loved you. You're a bad husband. You hurt me more than anyone ever has. I've always loved someone else in a first love type of way. You were never worth singing about. You betrayed me way worse than I did to you". All BS

It's like a WW is the complete opposite of the person you fell for. Kindess, caring , love, empathy, compassion accountability and ethic have become hatred, victimization, invalidation, disregard, disrespect, no accountability, poor ethic, weak morals.

As I've seen how someone can transform over what I thought was very little, I dont want any future relationships. As we've heard 100 times in other stories, I wasnt abusive, selfish, had no addictions, never yelled, knowingly hurt her emotionally just 2 times that I recall and both times were to put the kids safety ahead of hers. I literally showered her in love and affection. My biggest gripe in the M was the lack of reciprocity. When I would bring this up, she'd distance further. Must've been such a hard life having someone's seemingly unending love. Well I got to enjoy her conditional AF love. I picked wrong. I was hesitant to M and for good reason. A part of me felt the red flags but blinded to them.

You guys have so idea how physically and personally adorable these affected children are. Its a shame that in this one life, my son will never remember a peaceful two parent home. My wifes family lineage of throwing family members away continues and I hope it stops here. I pray I can do what it takes to prevent S and D from following the path and can live my families values. We have 1 known divorce in my families history and it was due to a severe mental illness. I'm now the 2nd one and the reason is....feelings? Trauma? I dont know.

If anyone who is considering getting married reads this, please fix your past as both my W and I should have done, before bringing kids in to the world.
Posted By: unchien

Re: Filed for D - 10/06/20 03:47 PM

Core ~

A lot of your last two posts resonate a lot with me. It reminds me of my separation last summer in many ways.

Originally Posted by Core
I have a feeling I'm going to be the bitter, angry, resentful guy. Even if W wanted me back, shes not at all what I want in a mate. The first several years of our R she had a mask on. Her real interests, wants, needs, opinions differ now. She used to be responsible, take ownership, and had accountability. Those things are gone. My W truly died in a way and she was an amazing person when she was alive. We were happy, always wanted to be together, always positive, had dreams and aspirations. Now this being has no empathy or sympathy for me or my family, we can barely converse and I am stuck with this version of her for countless years longer than I had my wife.

Resentment is a choice.

You are telling yourself your own narrative here. You are describing your W today. People change.

My STBXW is an absolute nightmare for me to deal with. I choose not to post much about it anymore. I think she is entitled and irresponsible and destructive and toxic. But I don't let it eat me alive.

I also have a great relationship with my kids. I'm gradually moving through the legal process to move on with my life and disentangle myself as much as possible from her. I'm excited about life. I have some resentment, no doubt, but it isn't eating me alive.

Part of detachment is ignoring the narrative that is being projected onto you. I see you react a lot to the current circumstances with your W, the things she says or does. You don't like it. You recoil from it. Try to detach... her truth will change, and frankly, it's not your truth, so who cares?

I know it's hard to accept that you will never understand. I know my own truth about how my MR unraveled. But I am confused as ever about my W's experience and why things got to this point. I'll never know. That's okay. I have 3 beautiful young kids, my relationship with them is better than ever, and I'm going to enjoy my life. I don't get to experience certain things with them. But I also have some magical times with them, times where I'm not worried about doing things the way my X wants me to, or worried about choosing things that she wants to do.

Hang in there, it takes a long time, you will adjust. Try to detach from your W's narrative, recognize that you are tethered to that rock and you need to cut that rope.
Posted By: Mumin

Re: Filed for D - 10/07/20 07:19 AM

Core
Tough reading what you are going through, it must be really heavy.
What U posted here is however SO right! Hang in there, give it time!
Its not your truth! (U holy [censored] that is strong!)
I have turend to David Goggins in my downs recently.
Forcing myself to change mentality at least helps a little bit when Im down.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 10/09/20 10:44 PM

Thank you and Mumin,

I'm getting there. I'm not even looking in to divorce stuff anymore yet I'm still getting....incoming buzzword...triggered..by stuff I'm finding. In reading both ends of politics, family values comes up and the science behind how important a two parent household is hits me in the face. I have and still do believe in the importance. When they say kids are worse off in basically every recorded measure, its hard to hear, probably hard for you reading to read, and its worse knowing I've no control on that aspect. Yes my portion of the time I can give them a great life yet doubtful it could've topped benefits of us staying married.

With the distance I have from my W, I can understand some of the WAS feelings. If she came and kissed me, said ILY, asked to work on the M now, I'd practically vomit in disgust.

I still dont know what flaws I really should work on. I believe so little of what W told me that I dont know whats true. For instance I was never called controlling until after D. Many of the problems she had with me were minor quirks like double checking that lights were turned off before bed. The bigger things such as words that were hurtful to her well, none of us never know what will hurt or trigger someone.

Here's the most I can muster, I lost composure once and cried in front of her after putting my cat down. She responded angrily and condescendingly after although she gave me space. I think that weakness killed attraction. My anxiety to boot killed attraction and made her feel unsafe with me as a protector as I had visible weaknesses. With how sensitive I had to be to others at my job else HR came for you with a complaint or you dont get a raise, I lost a measure of assertiveness. I set aside my goals to spend time with my kids. I lost measure if what I believe is masculine.

Killing attraction plus saying too much in our disagreements are probably what I did that was most damaging. Society today will tell me thats all ok and normal yet it is different than who I was and who she fell for and maybe is not actually ok. Much different than cocky, confident me who had few cares in the world. Thing is, after marriage and kids, I had intense cares in the world. For them. I'll never be that old me in full again and frankly I dont want to be. I want to move closer to that end than I have been but not all the way there, more centered. It's a weird feeling now and hard to explain. I want the two parent household but I dont want my W. No other woman would be mom to the kids so there is no replacing W and therefore the want is unachievable and not rational.

Possibly sadly for me, I have absolutely zero interest in any kind of relationship at the moment, minus what many men want plenty of the time. I don't want W in my life. I dont want another SO in my life. This D and growth since has damaged me in a way I need to work though. I see relationships now as ticking time bombs. How long until a GFs feelings change, trauma returns to her or me, MLC gets either party, needs or wants change from aging hormones. I don't see the point. I dont feel lonely, Im having an excellent time alone with W out of the house.
Posted By: LH19

Re: Filed for D - 10/10/20 09:53 AM

Boy this was a tough read Core. You would never know by reading this that you were the one who filed for divorce. You have to let go of the victims mentality. With your high anxiety I'm sure you were controlling at times the two go hand in hand. One of the number one problems with the LBS on this board is they want the WW to be something that they are not. I actually respected you when you filed because you weren't going to be treated that way by your W. Now it clearly shows that you did it as a tactic. You are 37 years old. 15 years younger then me. Basically 50 years ahead of you and your worried about being in another relationship. Why worry about it now? Raise your kids. If you want to have sex then have sex. You can do anything you want and are the master of your own destiny. Are kids better in a row parent home with loving parents? Absolutely! Now how many of those families do you know? Does alimony suck? Yep. It's only money and it doesn't last forever.

I'm really sorry that your family is breaking up when your kids are so young. I the positive side they will not know the difference. I once asked my BFs daughter if she was effected by her parents not living together. She was 2 when they split. She said not at all. I never knew any different.

Life is what you make of it Core. Time to positively start planning for the future.
Posted By: Ginger1

Re: Filed for D - 10/10/20 11:07 AM

I believe the statistics on 2 parent households are skewed.

Kids are most likely in the best situation in a 2 parent loving stable household.

But kids are not better off in a 2 parent household
Where there is loads of disrespect and no love, infidelity, and contempt for the other.

Kids in a divorced households where both parents canít co parent effectively there is hostility, using the kids as pawns, etc, thatís the worst situation .

Kids will fare better in a divorced household where two parents get along, are civil, and each household there is love and contentment.

My daughter hasnít known any other way. Her dad dad dropped the bomb when she was 6 months old and was out of the house that day.
Sheís doing great, except for being a snarky 13 year old girl. Her parents get along, she never has to feel uncomfortable, she wants for nothing. She has lots of people who love her. She is extremely emotionally intelligent. Sheís a nearly straight a student , has friends in the good crowd and is a happy kid, except for mopey teenage hormone stuff.

If crying when your cat got put to sleep killed her attraction, there is something wrong with her, not you.

Your post was about what should you fix that your W didnít like about you. What the heck?!!

If anything killed attraction, itís your insecurity, trying to become something that someone else wants, instead of being the man YOU want to be and having a sense of confidence. Which you can without cockiness . Which you can have at the same time you cry over something sad.

Trying to become someone that someone else wants you to be and constant victim mentality is what is not attractive .

Become the man YOI want to be and wear it well. Because if it isnít genuine, itís not a good look

Posted By: CWarrior

Re: Filed for D - 10/10/20 03:50 PM

Hi Core,

Originally Posted by Core
Spent 10 months post BD working on myself and the M in different ways. Finally had enough after finding W was name calling me, lying to friends about me and what I thought was lying about going to counseling. I filed for D

When they say kids are worse off in basically every recorded measure, its hard to hear, probably hard for you reading to read, and its worse knowing I've no control on that aspect. Yes my portion of the time I can give them a great life yet doubtful it could've topped benefits of us staying married.

You had control, and you chose to file for divorce. You say you felt it was worse for the kids to see their parents being verbally abusive and dishonest with each other, and now you're second-guessing. You made your choice. As a parent, I do the best I know how to for my kids. I often get it right. I sometimes don't. Spend the energy you're spending on second-guessing, on things you can control in their favor. My ex-W and I get along. My kids are close to each other and do well in school. Do The Next Right Thing.

Originally Posted by Core
With how sensitive I had to be to others at my job else HR came for you with a complaint or you dont get a raise, I lost a measure of assertiveness. I set aside my goals to spend time with my kids. I lost measure if what I believe is masculine.

This is not my experience--most industries like people who get work done and won't discard or not give a raise to a good employee over a single, unsubstantiated complaint. I've known people in many industries--big business, sales, teaching, healthcare, food service, groceries, and customer service. Entry-level jobs are an exception. At my company reviewing complaints is one of my managerial roles, and HR is for serious or consistent problems. I don't want them worrying good employees.

Originally Posted by Core
Killing attraction plus saying too much in our disagreements are probably what I did that was most damaging. Society today will tell me thats all ok and normal yet it is different than who I was and who she fell for and maybe is not actually ok.

Core, crying when your cat died makes you human. Men in past generations (like mine and maybe yours) were taught never to cry in front of others. While frequent crying may point to internal issues you need to resolve, tears at appropriate moments show empathy, that you're not a robot, and attract more than they turn-off. I used to be a wedding photographer, and almost every father-in-law sheds a tear, even those who never, ever cry in front of others. Their wives typically go "Oooh!" and think it's so sweet. Most superheroes cry. Decide what's right for you, and when you do date, you'll attract a matching woman. Don't try to be something you're not. At some point the facade falls away and neither is happy.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 10/10/20 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by LH19
You have to let go of the victims mentality. With your high anxiety I'm sure you were controlling at times the two go hand in hand. One of the number one problems with the LBS on this board is they want the WW to be something that they are not. I actually respected you when you filed because you weren't going to be treated that way by your W. Now it clearly shows that you did it as a tactic. You are 37 years old. 15 years younger then me.

I'm really sorry that your family is breaking up when your kids are so young. I the positive side they will not know the difference. I once asked my BFs daughter if she was effected by her parents not living together. She was 2 when they split. She said not at all. I never knew any different.

Life is what you make of it Core. Time to positively start planning for the future.

LH, good to hear from you. I got blind spots even of the repeating victim mindset and I'm glad to have it called out. In regards to me filing for D as a tactic, I don't see where I conveyed that. Did I have a sliver of hope that W would turn around and fix her side. Of course. Still do, and will for awhile but I dont see it as possible. The decision was made in what I believed at the time as my best interests and controversially in the kids best interests as well. My mind is changable on these things as facts, new studies and good arguments counter my stance. I'm very open to reframing opinions which I think is why the pain of this D will last me awhile.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

But kids are not better off in a 2 parent household where there is loads of disrespect and no love, infidelity, and contempt for the other.

Kids in a divorced households where both parents canít co parent effectively there is hostility, using the kids as pawns, etc, thatís the worst situation .

Kids will fare better in a divorced household where two parents get along, are civil, and each household there is love and contentment.

My daughter hasnít known any other way. Her dad dad dropped the bomb when she was 6 months old and was out of the house that day.
Sheís doing great, except for being a snarky 13 year old girl. Her parents get along, she never has to feel uncomfortable, she wants for nothing. She has lots of people who love her. She is extremely emotionally intelligent. Sheís a nearly straight a student , has friends in the good crowd and is a happy kid, except for mopey teenage hormone stuff.

The last paragraph is funny here, although I'm sure dealing with it in your day to day is not. I'm glad to see an example from you and LHs friend that point to kids perseverance.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

If crying when your cat got put to sleep killed her attraction, there is something wrong with her, not you.

My thoughts is if I'm supposed to be a rock, seeing my break in theory should be ok but emotionally must be a turn off on some level.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

Your post was about what should you fix that your W didnít like about you. What the heck?!!

If anything killed attraction, itís your insecurity, trying to become something that someone else wants, instead of being the man YOU want to be and having a sense of confidence. Which you can without cockiness.

I see how my post came off as fixing what W didnt like about me. Not the case. I do want to know where she or others think/thought I'm damaged or off and if its something I agree with changing, then I will. I know I've blind spots. Theres things she disliked that I didnt change and wont.

Theres little I want to change overall and thats what scares me a little. Certainly to have this all occur there must be something beyond my anxiety needing fixing. I dont see it so really all I've current have working on is continuing to hit anxiety, build up muscle and working on a future side income.

CW, thank you for hopping in as well with the others. You make some good points. Right now while I'm open to change, Im really going all in and man its a lot. I want to keep this going and keep open to information and change before I set in my ways. So much of all this like politics is controversial and in some cases theres incredible arguments on both sides.

I think someday I'll look back and find this journey incredible. I've found my religion again, shifted my political lean to much more centered, fixed an important relationship, out achieved most on my mid 20s fitness records, and learned quite a bit on validation and boundaries. This may be the best thing thats happened to me, just possibly not the kids whom alI believe are more important than I, an aging partially broken old man.
Posted By: LH19

Re: Filed for D - 10/11/20 10:43 AM

C,

My point is that if you feel D is best for you and the kids then own it. You are not owning it that's how I know it was a tactic. If you owned it you would be excited about the possibilities of the future ahead of you. You wouldn't be sitting around wallowing in self pity. Just like your Ws feelings changed your feelings will change too. There will come a time when you feel diffent about relationships once you get your confidence back. It may take some time but it will happen. Until then just be a good dad and take care of yourself physically, mentally and spiritually.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 10/13/20 03:40 PM

Good point LH. Here's the thing because it's beyond complicated. Filing for D I believed and believe still was best for me in terms of society and the rules the government has laid down upon me. I do not believe I made the right choice in terms of my religion. In that sense D was not best for me and the kids. Now since W had an EA, I can call it an affair which makes a divorce ok in terms of my religion yet I don't know how serious the EA was and how much was just her fantasy. I can't be 100 percent behind my choice without the facts.

On top of that part of my decision to file was based on her not getting counseling, her name calling and lying about these things. Its turns out her counselor was allowing her to keep a tab which my counselor said is very rare. W also told me I misinterpreted the name calling with may or may not be false. So I filed with a clear conscious that W was doing nothing at all and that I was being targeted or abused. W was actually in counseling and maybe I wasnt targeted to the degree I thought. If this is the case, things may have been repairable and I pulled the plug early in terms of society and religion.

Add to this that I had my part to play in all this. After years of Ws physical neglect, I pulled away emotionally and stated to her and a previous contact that I was doing so due to the pain it cause. At one point she said I need an emotional connection and I assumed what it meant rather than asking her what she wanted. I figured spending time together, chatting and doing family things developed an emotional connection but maybe not to her.

Im in a full blown existential crisis at this point. I felt deeply that my purpose was to have a family and raise my kids well so they have a net positive impact on the world. Without the family and from the damage this will do to the kids, my purpose has failed in my mind. Yes they could still have a net positive, but probably less so and in the end, the family has ended partially due to my withdrawal from the R as my needs were ignored. I'm not so much different from a WAS in that sense except that I would not have asked for divorce. Yet W says I did though I think I'd remember that. Maybe she took me saying I don't know what to do with our R if she keep up her habits and distancing as leaning towards divorce which in a way, it is and its a bit like an ultimatum. Now with clarity I'm less innocent in all this and this realization that I'm a large factor in hurting my W, my kids, myself and my purpose is awful.
Posted By: Thornton

Re: Filed for D - 10/13/20 03:50 PM

Of course you played a role in the demise of your marriage, we all did.

However, do you think you caused your W to cheat on you?
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 10/13/20 03:54 PM

I think I'm partially responsible for my W getting to the point where she could be plucked from the marriage and feel the need to cheat for security and validation as she's massively insecure from an unaddressed haunted past.
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: Filed for D - 10/13/20 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Core
I think I'm partially responsible for my W getting to the point where she could be plucked from the marriage

Core, of course, you are 50% responsible for your marriage failing. She is responsible for any cheating.

Originally Posted by Core
On top of that part of my decision to file was based on her not getting counseling, her name calling and lying about these things. Its turns out..

Learn what you can and move on. Maybe, "Slow down making big decisions." IIRC, several on this board nudged you to do more work on communication and detachment before filing. If D wasn't the best choice, it was at least reasonable, since you say she was in an EA. It's done, since your W isn't eager for an undo, so no point second-guessing now. Maybe today's theme is, "Once you've made a decision, run with it." Make your choice to D the best you can for you and your kids. Embrace all the opportunities that come from closing one book and opening another one. You didn't want your kids seeing conflicted and mopey parents--now you're free. Most religions and societies accept infidelity as a reasonable cause for divorce.

Originally Posted by Core
I felt deeply that my purpose was to have a family and raise my kids well so they have a net positive impact on the world. Without the family and from the damage this will do to the kids, my purpose has failed in my mind.

Many with divorced parents have a net positive effect on the world.

Don't give up on your dream.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 10/21/20 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by CWarrior
Many with divorced parents have a net positive effect on the world.

Don't give up on your dream.

True and I've found a few good examples to help defeat the distorted point of view I had.

Things haven't progressed much, Ws lawyer is taking her time. I'm to the point of just wanting it done. I'm ready to move and build a place for the kids and I. I had an excellent time while W was away. I'll be just fine when this is done. I just dont know why its moving so slow now. The delay is on her side with paperwork.

No advice or anything needed here. I'm amazed I'm at the point of excitement at moving out. Excited to be alone and to have the kids in my own clean place. Excited to not date. Excited to not have someone pull their love and intimacy cause we disagree on paint color or whatever I want to do to the place. To not have someone around who's love is/was extremely conditional. My time alone was so peaceful, I now crave the dissolution of the M and my new life, parenting the kids as I see is best and helping them through the challenges to come.
Posted By: unchien

Re: Filed for D - 10/22/20 05:19 PM

Core ~ Hang in there.

I relate to your feelings right now of wanting peace and time to yourself. I enjoy many of those things right now: time to myself, having my own place, building a stronger bond with my kids.

I also enjoy those things on their own now, and not through the lens of my broken MR. It takes time to get there, let the process unfold. It's a long road.
Posted By: Core

Re: Filed for D - 12/17/20 12:22 PM

Hi All,

I've been busy and a break from the boards here did me good mentally as I sorted things out. I wanted to share some updates.

My IC and I have parted ways. He says there's nothing to really work on and can see tremendous improvements. He admitted as we parted that he suspects but cannot confirm that I was in an abusive relationship and that would explain why my anxiety increased over time while living with W as I seeked out control elsewhere. W while far from the standard abuser, is very covert and passive in her approach. It also explains my reactions to the D and the months following (separating from a trauma bond).

My kids are doing great. They don't yet know about the D. I think it'll be hard on D4 and I know I'll get us through it. She is being very loving to those around her. My son has really taken to me now that he is a little older and we have a blast playing games together. He is developing well and has a fun personality.

Settlement is almost done and its not bad. W got a job and is making decent money relieving me from being forced by the state to supplement her income unless something changes. I'm still at home as I'm on the mortgage and am counting down the days until I'm free. There hasn't been one house for sale in my area or range so I've found a spot to rent if I can't get a place.

I barely think about the D now. If I see a beautiful woman or we have a bill come up, I briefly think of the D and how long this is taking then I move on. I'm guessing we are officially married for just 1 - 2 months longer before this wraps up. W is still a different person. Her friends and family cut me out already and I'm now happy about that. Many of my friends dont know yet so as xmas cards come in, I see the ones on my side come from a place of love to all of us living in the house. I'm happy for the caring souls on my side. W still has her fits, still tries to control me and only talks to me when it's something she wants to talk about. I can tell you all now, we aren't going to be one of those couples that gets back together in the future. I'd rather play russian roulette than go another round. She did me a favor by asking for D and it took a long time to see that. I'm better off mentally, I'm happier, I get better sleep, I have way less stress, I'll have my own place with my own stuff which will be clean, I wont have nagging, negs, negative attitude and control being directed at me daily. For the time being, as those things do occur, they make me stronger and more resilient.

Time will tell how this goes in the long run. I went from thinking this was the end of the world to now salivating for my new life and freedom. I know my new life isn't going to be a fantasy, and it may not be easier but it will be better. I'm thankful for you here for helping me, my incredible IC, my family for getting me back from a dark place, on to a successful life track again.
Posted By: Thornton

Re: Filed for D - 12/17/20 03:30 PM

Great update, Core! Keep going!
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Filed for D - 12/17/20 03:37 PM

Awesome Core, keep us updated! Glad to hear you've turned the corner.
Posted By: Drh2001

Re: Filed for D - 12/27/20 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Core
Hi All,

I've been busy and a break from the boards here did me good mentally as I sorted things out. I wanted to share some updates.

My IC and I have parted ways. He says there's nothing to really work on and can see tremendous improvements. He admitted as we parted that he suspects but cannot confirm that I was in an abusive relationship and that would explain why my anxiety increased over time while living with W as I seeked out control elsewhere. W while far from the standard abuser, is very covert and passive in her approach. It also explains my reactions to the D and the months following (separating from a trauma bond).

My kids are doing great. They don't yet know about the D. I think it'll be hard on D4 and I know I'll get us through it. She is being very loving to those around her. My son has really taken to me now that he is a little older and we have a blast playing games together. He is developing well and has a fun personality.

Settlement is almost done and its not bad. W got a job and is making decent money relieving me from being forced by the state to supplement her income unless something changes. I'm still at home as I'm on the mortgage and am counting down the days until I'm free. There hasn't been one house for sale in my area or range so I've found a spot to rent if I can't get a place.

I barely think about the D now. If I see a beautiful woman or we have a bill come up, I briefly think of the D and how long this is taking then I move on. I'm guessing we are officially married for just 1 - 2 months longer before this wraps up. W is still a different person. Her friends and family cut me out already and I'm now happy about that. Many of my friends dont know yet so as xmas cards come in, I see the ones on my side come from a place of love to all of us living in the house. I'm happy for the caring souls on my side. W still has her fits, still tries to control me and only talks to me when it's something she wants to talk about. I can tell you all now, we aren't going to be one of those couples that gets back together in the future. I'd rather play russian roulette than go another round. She did me a favor by asking for D and it took a long time to see that. I'm better off mentally, I'm happier, I get better sleep, I have way less stress, I'll have my own place with my own stuff which will be clean, I wont have nagging, negs, negative attitude and control being directed at me daily. For the time being, as those things do occur, they make me stronger and more resilient.

Time will tell how this goes in the long run. I went from thinking this was the end of the world to now salivating for my new life and freedom. I know my new life isn't going to be a fantasy, and it may not be easier but it will be better. I'm thankful for you here for helping me, my incredible IC, my family for getting me back from a dark place, on to a successful life track again.



Core,

I just notarized the D settlement yesterday. She was with me. It's upsetting to see her but I didn't show it. She moved in with OM earlier this month. I get slightly more than 50% custody, and like yourself she hasn't asked for alimony (I said I would file a motion to stop it as she is cohabiting).

People tell me I should be relieve to have the toxic situation out of the house and I am but I am not happy. I'm not throwing a party now that she's gone. There's just such incredible sadness as someone I once knew seems to have had her SIM card switched out for someone else's. She is completely different. Rebellious in mind and spirit. Some of her family have made it clear they do not support her choices and so refrain from liking her social media posts with OM and my kids.

She has disgraced herself and thrown everything away. Ironically, she is a full time mom to his kids and a part time mom to mine.

I just hope she comes to her senses. Right now she is deep in the fog. she is naturally gullible and will believe anything.

The scripture comes to mind, and applies to many of us: "The heart is more treacherous. Who can know it?"

I hope you can find peace and move on.

For myself, I'm in no hurry to find someone else. I have three teenage daughters to support.

Keep us posted on your journey if you wish.
Posted By: Drh2001

Re: Filed for D - 12/27/20 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by Core
W still has her fits, still tries to control me and only talks to me when it's something she wants to talk about. I can tell you all now, we aren't going to be one of those couples that gets back together in the future. .



I wanted to comment on that. A few months ago, after WW had only known OM for about four months, I found on her calendar that we share that she wanted to move out in the spring of 2021. As time progressed, she kept bringing the date forward bit by bit. I told her we had financial commitments and her response was she couldn't help me with the mortgage if she was living with OM!!!

Then OM sold his house and moved to our state and he asked WW to move in with him earlier so they could get used to being around each other.

My kids had not met OM till this September. A lawyer told me I could file a restraining order preventing WW from bringing my kids around OM. It would have cost north of $2,000. The way I see it I would have been thousands out of pocket and would only have delayed but not stopped the inevitable.

Now that she is cohabiting I don't have to pay alimony as we have a long term marriage.

I no longer interfere in her life - I do not bad mouth OM to my kids.

Now that she's left, my job is more or less done. It's hard to do LRT as we have kids and the finances will take a while to sort out.

Natural consequences can play their part now. It might not ever make her change her mind about me.

She might find happiness with OM but she will never have peace of mind knowing that she is responsible for the destruction of her family and exposing my kids to her adulterous affair.

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