Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: KitCat I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/12/20 10:00 PM

Link to previous thread: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2897441#Post2897441

I'm working this weekend and it has been very busy. The weather is nice. I am continuing to work out more again since my back is feeling better.

Plan to head over to the state park with the dog. Hopefully both days. I hope to spend some time winding down in the pool as well.

Working on S18 open house next month - must make a to do list!!!

I need to shop for some ceiling fan replacements and call an electrician. Have a long list for electrician.

Arrangements were made that the mail and some perishable items will be sitting at the front door during a time I will not be home. Face to face would just be for me --- looking great and feeling great. Months before the BD I was not myself... I was not the best I could be by a long shot. Its sad that it took getting my heart broke to realize that it was my job to get up and start doing the hard work on how I was feeling. I'm stronger physically, getting in better shape every day, realizing that overall I wasn't a very good person. I'd love to show that off!!! But, again face to face in unnecessary. I need to get a thicker skin --- I'm still sending the vibe I'm okay with Plan B

Asking also that my overhead door opener is also returned to me.

From now on sticking to things only about me.
Hit a slow spot at work this morning. I think its the rain - bummer as I wanted to take the dog trail walking today.

So yesterday I just really felt dirty... grimey.. icky. I should have just stuck to NC. The best way to avoid feeling like that again will be to stay the course. I know I'm not hated... I suppose I'm tolerated. I'm not doing myself any favors.

I just hate the weekends.

I will work on making a long list of things to accomplish so that I as I check them off I will feel productive and that will propel me to keep going. I slacked off on doing the room by room but I will by the end of the weekend make sure that I've order a new headboard for the MB... even if I'm not getting it done till 11pm Sunday night.! smile

I have plans to travel next weekend to female bbf for some yarn shopping and a visit to see her "knitting" room at her house. So I have that to look forward to.

Just got a text. Asking a question. No real need to answer as arrangements for next week and that can be dealt with at the same time. I will ignore.

I'm definitely friend zoned... but more of the 3rd string friend group. It [censored].

I've gotten a lot of good advice and I have to put more focus on walking away.
Posted By: Sage4 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/13/20 04:08 PM
You're doing great with the NC! Keep it up! You can do hard things!

Keep the motivation that you don't want to lose these 10 days you're already gotten under your belt.
I was focused on getting things cleared out and organized.

Something really painful happened. I did not go looking - it literally popped up on my phone with a notification.

It stung.

Its been about 4hr now and finally gotten to the point of What the F Ever.

I deserved better. I deserved someone who would allow me to get my SH*T together. I did not deserve this.
KitKat, I agree you deserve better. I don’t know how long he owed putting his happiness on hold, but at least he owed breaking up instead of having an EA+PA. I take it he got engaged for reals. frown I wonder why it popped up on your Facebook if you unfollowed him and his family. Maybe a setting to fix.
You are right CW... how long was he supposed to put his happiness on hold? I understand that and have accepted he was hurting and in a lot of pain that I didn't see. But, I was still his wife... the woman he had so adored. It's not that I don't see the other side of the pancake.

I have no idea what his relationship status is...

Nope I got an email receipt because my email is still apparently tied to his CC Square charges??? So I got to be informed he took her to a winery and what they had and what they took home. This was our thing. We did this frequently. Prior to me he had no interest I wine and would have never done this.

I have blocked them both on Facebook as well as blocking his fake profile. I'm doing the best I can to not be bombarded.

I ignored his text today.

It's just hard:

1) goes to the podunk out of the way town which was my store that I introduced him to so that he gets to now BUY here these amazing bath bombs.
2) he asks for the drink recipie from our amazing vacation.
3) now he is taking her to local wineries and buying my exact taste in wine.

It just seems like he is trying so hard to "recreate us".

I get it. It means nothing. One has nothing to do with the other. How will he ever miss me if he is just recreating me?

Rant over.

Yes, I know it means nothing. He's so into her and I just disgust him. Yes, I really want to get to the point that I want nothing to do with him.
Originally Posted by KitCat


Yes, I really want to get to the point that I want nothing to do with him.


That's not a point you magically arrive at. It's a choice that you consciously make.
Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by KitCat


Yes, I really want to get to the point that I want nothing to do with him.


That's not a point you magically arrive at. It's a choice that you consciously make.


Yesterday was the first time I hadn't replied to a text message from him in over 2 months. I have no interest in ever replying or picking up the phone from here on out.

I'm dealing with pain of my poor choices.

And, I recognize the fact that very few people would do the work necessary to repair the hurt they inflicted on their partner to make a better M, but instead behave like water and going down the path of least resistance.

That is where he is at - the path of least resistance. I wish him well.
Well it's Monday again... smile

This weekend I will be traveling several hours north of me to visit female bff for a weekend of yarn shopping and knitting!

AND... I'm in the middle of booking a trip to many many many miles to the west of me to visit male bff. We will travel down to Mexico and go sailing on his boat for labor day weekend!!!! I'm so happy and excited but this trip is still 3 months off... that will be the hard part... the waiting.
Originally Posted by KitCat

From now on sticking to things only about me.


YES!!!!!!


Originally Posted by KitCat
I have no idea what his relationship status is...

Nope I got an email receipt because my email is still apparently tied to his CC Square charges??? So I got to be informed he took her to a winery and what they had and what they took home. This was our thing. We did this frequently. Prior to me he had no interest I wine and would have never done this.

I have blocked them both on Facebook as well as blocking his fake profile. I'm doing the best I can to not be bombarded.

I ignored his text today.

It's just hard:

1) goes to the podunk out of the way town which was my store that I introduced him to so that he gets to now BUY here these amazing bath bombs.
2) he asks for the drink recipie from our amazing vacation.
3) now he is taking her to local wineries and buying my exact taste in wine.

It just seems like he is trying so hard to "recreate us".

I get it. It means nothing. One has nothing to do with the other. How will he ever miss me if he is just recreating me?


NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! What happened to focusing on you? You got a simple email notification and once again it sent you spinning off into a pit of despair just like every other email, phone call and text you get from him. Picture that STOP SIGN in your head and STOP THE SPINNING. Did you pick up The Happiness Trap and read it? You could really use some of the techniques in it. Do get it if you haven't.
^^^^ AS

Thank you - I will pick up the Happiness Trap and start reading.

I woke up today to a text asking about the cable and he thought it was under his name. Its not - he is just authorized to have full access. It was hard explaining that back and forth so I just old him to call as where a couple of other business items.

He called and explained the cable bill - that is in my name and I pay for it. He has a sub-account under me and I will leave it for now so he has time to update his things with a different email.

Unfortunately it did not stick to just business items. There was small chit chat. My tone was even and I did not ask personal questions - only about the puppy. He talked extensively about the puppy - how much fun he as at the family farm with creek, how H hurt his shoulder on a 5mi walk when he wanted a squirrel, to how good and well behaved he was when H went camping last weekend. I asked - did you get a new tent? He said no used tarps - oh, okay.

I reminded him S18 Grad Party is X date. He said he thought he had a conflict and then looked at the calendar and realized he did not. But, then he went on to say he felt it would be awkward ( this is after months of telling me he had every intention to be there for S18). I let him know that only my mother knows our sitch and she has never said a word to anyone. I have been there for EVERYTHING with kids. I let him know that S18's own father will not come. His response "that's not a surprise".

I'm trying to accept that he will be a no show for something that he had been looking forward to for year in planning. But then H goes on to ask when S18 moves to college. I didn't have exact date handy. H went on to say that he would help move S18 into the dorm. WTH? You won't come to his Grad Party but want to help with this? Which I don't need his help for... ---we can manage without you.

I hate this. I really do. He went camping with OW. He has never said it but he feels he has more in common with her than we do... he isn't looking back. They just continue to bond.

Every bit of contact justs gets more akward. Makes me feel immediately bad.

I'm focusing on my weekend. I'm focusing on what I have and working to leave behind that which I don't. For some time I have felt this will not turn around. I need to dig in my heels and keep going forward and stop looking back.
Posted By: LITB Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/16/20 04:21 PM
KC,

The fear has you paralyzed. You are so consumed with what he thinks about you and why he does certain things. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't. Let go of the expectations of him doing logical things. It is a waste of your time. One day, you will look back at this time and discover how much time you have wasted.

What are you afraid of? The worst has already happened. It is reality. The tighter you hold on, the longer it is going to take for you to be independently happy. When you get there, it will open a whole new world for you. Anything worthwhile, takes work. Get out of your own way.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/16/20 04:32 PM
KK,

I am sorry you are struggling today. You still haven't learned that the stove is hot but you will eventually get there. Expectations are the number one enemy of the LBS. You need to accept that he is not looking back anytime soon and keep moving forward. The quote below has gotten me through some tough times.

“Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain’t all sunshine and rainbows. It’s a very mean and nasty place and I don’t care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain’t about how hard ya hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That’s how winning is done! Now if you know what you’re worth then go out and get what you’re worth. But ya gotta be willing to take the hits, and not pointing fingers saying you ain’t where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody! Cowards do that and that ain’t you! You’re better than that! I’m always gonna love you no matter what. No matter what happens. You’re my son and you’re my blood. You’re the best thing in my life. But until you start believing in yourself, ya ain’t gonna have a life.
Hi KitCat,

Well, you touched the stove again. If something is too complicated to explain via text, use e-mail.
80% of the day I'm really okay. I've been getting busy and doing my own thing and making plans that are only about me.

I've had time to wipe away my emotions. He is pulling back more from me, hence the retraction from coming to S18 party. I think he is worried about judgement from my family. My family will be nothing but kind to him and all smiles not to mention that only my mom knows.

I told him his mother is planning on coming - which must mean he didn't know this? Maybe knowing this he will come with her? I can't worry about it anymore.

He seems happy. Talked about taking a vaca to see his bff (was supposed to go earlier but COVID). If he truly feels this OW is a better match then I just have to be happy that he is happy.

He hasn't brought up financial order, attys or S/D in 5 weeks. I'm sure he is so happy to have his space and new life -- now that he no longer feels trapped there isn't any urgency to get it done. The line has been drawn in the sand with filing of the S but we literally have no agreement or are currently working on any agreement.

I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with doing this party planning all on my own - getting rentals, getting it set up. My mom said she would help but not much response from her in regards to that. Why am I falling flat? I was always the most organized planned person --- but maybe that because I knew that H had my back. He was the one last summer stating we needed to do X, Y and Z for the open house. I feel like a fish out of water dealing with this.

I need to get to a place where if he doesn't do something or does something I could care less.
NO MORE EXCUSES

It is what it is ---- I will stop having expectations

I just loaded my amazon cart with more reading. Not that I haven't done a ton already - per AS Happiness Trap.

But also picked up Boundaries in M, Love and Respect, The Empowered Wife and the lastly the one about How to Save M without Speaking.

I had such overwhelming feeling of shame this morning after getting off the phone. Though I did not beg, plead or pursue but still the whole thing reeked of desperation. When I get off the phone I feel all dirty and gross.

As much as I am GAL and 180s I'm a total disaster at LRT.

I know I cannot nice him back OR talk him back OR say here's what I learned - this is where I'm at with my self discovery. I get it now... I do... so I want you back so you can see the better version of me. JUST LOOK AT ME... don't look at her... LOOK AT ME.

I get its ridiculous. I really do.
KitCat, cutting out live interactions helps immensely. To review--allow a few hours to elapse between responding to a text or e-mail. If another response is required, so is another pause.

Let me know if "The Happiness Trap" is a good read. I'm still working on the self-improvement, too. The other book sounds good too, but not particularly aligned with me as a non-wife. wink
I just want to say thank you to everyone who has given support and firm hand.

I'm genuinely trying.
Keep trying. One day, you'll succeed. I hope that it is today. And remember there's almost never an email or a text that requires a response.

-Spiral
ANGER.... OVERWHELMING ANGER... SO MUCH ANGER

(at myself)

Ok Steve85 I'm back to reading more books. I read lots of books the last time I was at this but I've got a fresh new stack.

Its painful to read to read them. I'm just a blubbering hot mess. Reading my mistakes, understanding his side of things better, how to make real changes all in bold black and white but slightly blurry from the flow of tears.

My H is gone and not just moved out but moved on with the purchase of a house and a new life. I understand his frustration with me and that this was something brewing for many months so that it didn't take much of a catalyst to tip things to the breaking point.

It's like since that moment I've been working hard and slowing getting my sh*t together. I've made a lot of headway in discovering my mindset in the last 6-8 mo and I'm still a work in progress.

I fix those mismatch pieces in myself and work toward being a better partner --- my biggest issues were control and being dismissive... UGH. My control came from the best intentions, really. I never knew until a couple of months ago that left my partner feeling disrespected. I felt a punch in the gut with that... never knew... I thought I was being helpful. Same with the dismissive. I thought I was just being efficient and orderly... he felt never listened to.

Of course I can commit to making real and lasting changes. But, he will never see that. I just can't call him up and say 'hey I've got this all worked out and I'm better now.'

He's buried his pain in staying busy moving forward and giving all the love and affection he wanted to give to me to OW.

I'm here taking as many minutes as possible to work finding my weak spots and shoring them up... but to what end? Of course the changes will benefit ME. What a waste of 10yr if he chooses not to look back and see me that goddess he fell in love with again. I still love him. Of course, I can take this and move forward to whatever I do ---- right now my future plans are to sail the ocean with male bff of 40yr. I will survive and adapt.

Why do I still wish for that chance for him to wipe the dust from his eyes and really look at me again?
KC, I do not think your problem is not being empathetic to him and understanding your past mistakes. I'd say those kinds of books are preaching to the choir because you have that down pat.

Focus on books that help you move on, healthy and happy. Your biggest struggle is in letting go.
Originally Posted by KitCat

I'm here taking as many minutes as possible to work finding my weak spots and shoring them up... but to what end? Of course the changes will benefit ME. What a waste of 10yr if he chooses not to look back and see me that goddess he fell in love with again. I still love him. Of course, I can take this and move forward to whatever I do ---- right now my future plans are to sail the ocean with male bff of 40yr. I will survive and adapt.


Food for thought: it's not a waste of 10 years, and I challenge you to change your mindset on that. If you learn and come out the other side a better person FOR YOURSELF, then it isn't wasted at all. You probably learned a whole lot during those 10 years - about yourself, about where you want to be better, and about what you will and will not tolerate. Your sense of self worth really shouldn't be so tied to your H's opinion of you (or anyone's opinion of you). I know it can be so hard to read that stuff and identify with the hard parts. That takes a lot of courage. Do it for you.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/17/20 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by KitCat
Why do I still wish for that chance for him to wipe the dust from his eyes and really look at me again?


Why are you doing it? Why are you so obsessed with H? You were in a relationship with a man who wasn't meeting your needs, who would irrationally blame you for anything that went wrong, and then cheated on you and lied to you. Why is that a prize worth making the focus of your waking attention?

The reason is that you are grasping to re-estabish a feeling of control over your life.

When H cheated/left she ripped your sense of stability away from you. From your perspective you didn't do anything to deserve it, you couldn't stop it from happening, and you couldn't put things back together afterwards.

That would make anyone feel totally out of control, spinning down the drain, and that is a horrible feeling! Throw in the fact that you are an admitted control freak and that magnifies everything tenfold.

You are trying to analyze and understand everything so that you can build it into a rational model so that it will never, ever happen to you again. If I can avoid doing X, then Y will never happen. In addition, you want to unlock this puzzle, to deconstruct it so you can find the solution that will allow you to rebuild it. Finding that key would provide immense comfort.

Your brain has convinced itself that getting H back, or getting H to apologize and declare a desire to have you back is the very best and fastest way to restore your feeling of being in control.

With the benefit of time and distance, you'll realize that's what it's really all about, it's about regaining the ability to feel in control of your life and your future. It really has very little to do with H or who he is as a person, he's a lever to get you what you want, but that's really just an illusion.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I accept the choices and actions that got me to my present state.

I'm already working toward a future that is different from what I imagined 1yr ago. It's going to be radically different but it is moving on.

And, by what I mean as a waste of 10yr is that this didn't have to end in D. I totally get his frustration and I totally see my mistakes. This was not beyond repair initially. But, I accept I do not control his choices.

I can move forward. I'm well educated and gainfully employed. I will still have a fantastic future. I've always been drawn to water but especially the ocean. Life on a boat for someone who hangs on to items from the past will be interesting. I'm not a hoarder but I still have my first babydoll, a beautiful wooden doll high chair mundo brought home when he was out of town when I was 5?, a lovely eskimo doll from Canada from my parents when they vaca there... even a pencil case from Cananda... I must have 7?. All that crap won't fit on a boat.. lol

I will always have regret that my M ended. No amount of therapy or reading will change that.
Originally Posted by KitCat


I will always have regret that my M ended. No amount of therapy or reading will change that.


This is what I don't get. I can see regretting ever marrying a lying cheater, but I don't get that after all he has put you through that you regret it ending. This is your second marriage, right? Do you still have regrets about the first one ending?
Originally Posted by SamCal
Food for thought: it's not a waste of 10 years, and I challenge you to change your mindset on that. If you learn and come out the other side a better person FOR YOURSELF, then it isn't wasted at all. You probably learned a whole lot during those 10 years - about yourself, about where you want to be better, and about what you will and will not tolerate.


Absolutely. I see so many LBS's say this, that their marriage was a waste of 5 or 10 or 20 or even 40 years. If it was such a waste then why did you stay in it that long? And why do you want your spouse back so badly? Because if the real truth be told, you enjoyed your marriage. And now it's over, but why call it a "waste" if you enjoyed it so much? Sure we all would have loved for our marriages to last longer, but for most of us our marriage had a beginning, a middle, and yes... an end. So see it for the great journey it was, and instead of lamenting the time spent on it, remember the great times with fondness while moving on to create new memories either alone or with someone else.

I've said this before but when my marriage ended, at the time I saw it as the end of my story. I would simply exist and persist, waiting for death's warm embrace. But.... then I started living life again. A very different life than before. And.... enjoying it. My roles changed, I was no longer husband, no longer father to small children (they grew up!) I shedded my codependency, found myself, grew, prospered. I came to realize marriage was NOT my story, it was simply a chapter in my story. When it ended, the page turned and a beautiful new chapter began.

What is the difference between me and people who are stuck being bitter, resentful, angry, confused, sad and/ or a number of other things after D? As Sam said, it's mindset. That's the not-so-secret secret to prospering after S and D. Change your mindset.
Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by KitCat


I will always have regret that my M ended. No amount of therapy or reading will change that.


This is what I don't get. I can see regretting ever marrying a lying cheater, but I don't get that after all he has put you through that you regret it ending. This is your second marriage, right? Do you still have regrets about the first one ending?


This is my first marriage.

I was in a long term long distance dating relationship with an unexpected pregnancy at the age of 32.

Was he a lying cheater when I married him? I don't feel he was. Could I have done things differently where he didn't feel so rejected, disrespected and neglected by me? I wish I did. Were his choices appropriate? NOPE. Can I sympathize with the amount of hurt he was carrying unbeknownst to me - I can. I'm not condoning his choices or his actions but I see his suffering.

Am I going to disregard 10yr of my life where he was a most wonderful husband because the last 5months he disrespected me??? That's like giving someone a life sentence for first time minor offense. Just because I don't vilify doesn't mean I condone his choice in actions OR have put him on a pedestal.

I will always carry regret for the loss of my M. I accept that how he proceeds forward is out of my control. I won't stand in his way but I will not do the hard work. HE MESSED UP - HE NEEDS TO CLEAN UP. Please confuse my regret over the end of my M to mean I worship him.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Originally Posted by SamCal
Food for thought: it's not a waste of 10 years, and I challenge you to change your mindset on that. If you learn and come out the other side a better person FOR YOURSELF, then it isn't wasted at all. You probably learned a whole lot during those 10 years - about yourself, about where you want to be better, and about what you will and will not tolerate.


Absolutely. I see so many LBS's say this, that their marriage was a waste of 5 or 10 or 20 or even 40 years. If it was such a waste then why did you stay in it that long? And why do you want your spouse back so badly? Because if the real truth be told, you enjoyed your marriage. And now it's over, but why call it a "waste" if you enjoyed it so much? Sure we all would have loved for our marriages to last longer, but for most of us our marriage had a beginning, a middle, and yes... an end. So see it for the great journey it was, and instead of lamenting the time spent on it, remember the great times with fondness while moving on to create new memories either alone or with someone else.

I've said this before but when my marriage ended, at the time I saw it as the end of my story. I would simply exist and persist, waiting for death's warm embrace. But.... then I started living life again. A very different life than before. And.... enjoying it. My roles changed, I was no longer husband, no longer father to small children (they grew up!) I shedded my codependency, found myself, grew, prospered. I came to realize marriage was NOT my story, it was simply a chapter in my story. When it ended, the page turned and a beautiful new chapter began.

What is the difference between me and people who are stuck being bitter, resentful, angry, confused, sad and/ or a number of other things after D? As Sam said, it's mindset. That's the not-so-secret secret to prospering after S and D. Change your mindset.


hmmmmm... I suppose a better term would be "such a loss of 10yr". Not meaning I threw those 10yr away but more that we both didn't put in the work to make it 20. That WE didn't have what it takes to work through this to other side and find that greater joy because we did.

I always thought we did but since I'm only recently getting a grip on my controlling tendencies and OCD issues. I always did ALL the cleaning, laundry and putting it away. Honestly I just really love doing laundry - I know what a freak I am. But, that says ---- I have to do it because I'm the only one that does it right. Why did it take getting my heart broke to really finally understand his frustration with me?

Either way I can't continue to dwell. It is what it is. It doesn't mean I won't move forward... it just means I'm still dealing with regret. Doesn't mean I'll stay that way forever.
Originally Posted by KitCat


Am I going to disregard 10yr of my life where he was a most wonderful husband because the last 5months he disrespected me??? That's like giving someone a life sentence for first time minor offense. Just because I don't vilify doesn't mean I condone his choice in actions OR have put him on a pedestal.


Weren't you here a year and a half ago too?

Don't be surprised when you find out that the first go around also involved an OW, either the same one or a different one.
Originally Posted by KitCat
Life on a boat for someone who hangs on to items from the past will be interesting. I'm not a hoarder but I still have my first babydoll, a beautiful wooden doll high chair mundo brought home when he was out of town when I was 5?, a lovely eskimo doll from Canada from my parents when they vaca there... even a pencil case from Cananda... I must have 7?. All that crap won't fit on a boat.. lol


I have a similar interest in sailing the ocean and have a similar tendency to hold on to sentimental stuff. Then a couple years ago I found a simple solution. Driving along the coast, way out in the boonies, I found a couple acres of land on a bay of water. Over an hour from the nearest town about 1000 people, so consequently relatively cheap at less than $20k. So now the plan includes a sailboat and a cheap piece of land where I can build a small coastal shack and concrete bunker. Hehehe.

Although I suspect that once I get close to actually purchasing that boat, then suddenly all that stuff will be just fine in memory and less important to physically keep. On the other hand, a concrete bunker might still be nice for the next zombie apocalypse....
Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by KitCat


Am I going to disregard 10yr of my life where he was a most wonderful husband.. Just because I don't vilify doesn't mean I.. have put him on a pedestal.


Weren't you here a year and a half ago too?


I read the first page or two of your 2018 thread. "He is cold and distant", and "Trying to start arguments over a can of beans or cookies which I don't take the bait", and "He thought about sleeping with someone else just to hurt me." The forum pointed out his manipulative behavior and attempts to gaslight you.

The last quote is interesting. He was considering cheating on you over two years before he cheated on you. It wasn't one bad decision. His code of ethics is lacking in significant ways.

Originally Posted by KitCat
I always did ALL the cleaning, laundry and putting it away. Honestly I just really love doing laundry - I know what a freak I am. But, that says ---- I have to do it because I'm the only one that does it right.

You choosing to do all the cleaning and laundry doesn't say that at all. I hope that's not your takeaway! Many spouses would love a partner who enjoys and does well at laundry and cleaning. I keep my home at cleanliness level 5 of 10 and my GF prefers cleanliness level 8 of 10. Her doing extra cleaning didn't bother me unless it bothered her. It was nice, actually. Now, if you constantly called him a slob, or stopped him when he tried to clean, that's different. Stopping his attempts to clean or clean his way would be controlling.
Originally Posted by ShaneG


I have a similar interest in sailing the ocean and have a similar tendency to hold on to sentimental stuff. Then a couple years ago I found a simple solution. Driving along the coast, way out in the boonies, I found a couple acres of land on a bay of water. Over an hour from the nearest town about 1000 people, so consequently relatively cheap at less than $20k. So now the plan includes a sailboat and a cheap piece of land where I can build a small coastal shack and concrete bunker. Hehehe.

Although I suspect that once I get close to actually purchasing that boat, then suddenly all that stuff will be just fine in memory and less important to physically keep. On the other hand, a concrete bunker might still be nice for the next zombie apocalypse....


Sounds perfect!!
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by KitCat


Am I going to disregard 10yr of my life where he was a most wonderful husband.. Just because I don't vilify doesn't mean I.. have put him on a pedestal.


Weren't you here a year and a half ago too?


I read the first page or two of your 2018 thread. "He is cold and distant", and "Trying to start arguments over a can of beans or cookies which I don't take the bait", and "He thought about sleeping with someone else just to hurt me." The forum pointed out his manipulative behavior and attempts to gaslight you.

The last quote is interesting. He was considering cheating on you over two years before he cheated on you. It wasn't one bad decision. His code of ethics is lacking in significant ways.


I see your point. Not condoning his choice or words but sometimes when you feel hurt or wronged by someone you want to level the playing field and hurt them right back. NOW - that is not a mature way of handling things but sometimes in the heat of the moment we all can be guilty of reverting back to 5yr olds.

It took this second go round for me to "GET IT". I didn't see anything wrong with what I was doing so how could I have possibly known I was hurting him?

The threat of sleeping with someone else was a direct blow to my Achilles's heel. He knew from the moment we met that that would be the worst thing he could ever do to me...

Even in our latest sitch he went so far as again stating he would go out and sleep with someone else that very night if it was the only way I could get over him. He was very angry, under unbearable stress, extremely sleep deprived (he only had about 6hr sleep in 72hr), and felt so trapped/imprisoned at that time. He was looking for any way out of this desperate situation. He stated he wanted me hurt as badly as he was hurting.

Do I excuse his threat? No, it was mean underhanded thing to say. I have been guilty of saying something just as mean to him? Yes, sadly I have.

Originally Posted by KitCat
I always did ALL the cleaning, laundry and putting it away. Honestly I just really love doing laundry - I know what a freak I am. But, that says ---- I have to do it because I'm the only one that does it right.

Quote

You choosing to do all the cleaning and laundry doesn't say that at all. I hope that's not your takeaway! Many spouses would love a partner who enjoys and does well at laundry and cleaning. I keep my home at cleanliness level 5 of 10 and my GF prefers cleanliness level 8 of 10. Her doing extra cleaning didn't bother me unless it bothered her. It was nice, actually. Now, if you constantly called him a slob, or stopped him when he tried to clean, that's different. Stopping his attempts to clean or clean his way would be controlling.


That's just it... I refused him to his laundry. And, any time he had any griping about anything I just "but I cook and clean for you and do your laundry and make sure your lunch is packed"

In my head ^^^^^ those words and actions were because "I love you" so this is what I do for you. I do all these things so you are free to do X, Y and Z. I was doing these out of love and felt unrecognized for them... he did not always appreciate.

In my husband's head ^^^^ those words and actions were to be held over his head like a score card.

As you can see my love language is acts of service/words of appreciation. My husband's is physical touch.

I learned far to late in the game that he felt I was holding these things over his head. ONCE I figured that out I immediately stopped doing it... I mean immediately... that and something else I found out upset him which was not my intent. But, even though I stopped it was too little too late.

There were far to many negatives and not enough recent positives to fill the space in his head.

So yes, my actions did convey the message "I have to do it because I the only one that does it right". That is what was in my head and I will own it.

Since then I have S18 put away his own clothes and deal with a closet that doesn't look like I did it... LOL. Since then I have had S18 do all the grocery shopping and putting things away.

Sadly, ^^^^^ was not in time for my H to see that I was capable of change and me seeing how my behavior was really affecting others.

I own it. I keep working it. Every day. I used the last few months to really address my issues and to come out the other side better for it.
Quite honestly, Kit, I think even if you were the perfect wife etc, you would still be here because your H displays narcissistic traits and would have cheated anyway.

You can replay all the times you didn't listen to him, all the times he complained about his long commute, all the times you forgot to wake him up, all the times you messed up, and it still doesn't change the fact that what your H did is unacceptable. Period.

And now that I've seen that you 'were here years ago and he was threatening to cheat on you then? THat's straight out of the abuse playbook and now I'm even more convinced your H is messed up and it has NOTHING to do with you.

He will cheat on the new girl as well. Just wait and see.
I think you should start your new sailing life on Da Nile. Because that is where you have been living for quite a while.
Yesterday just plain rotten tomatoes...

There was some texting with my MIL. She has been actively asking to come to S18 grad party. So I texted her yesterday that official invites went out and that hopefully SS20 will be home on leave at that time so I sent his invite to his gf's place. ***I almost mentioned my H to her and let her know that he thought it would be awkward if he came to S18 party, but I completely left my H out of it.*** I'm glad I did. But, it was tempting to talk to her.

MIL responded that yes hopefully everyone gets to come... it will be grand.

Later MIL was asking what S18 was currently into, as I assume meaning a gift.

Spent the day party planning and picking up supplies. Making a list of what I still needed. I'm going to meet with my mom next week and divide up some tasks to make it easier on me.

I spent last night dealing with the urge to text him "I miss you". UGH... where is that coming from ???? Of course I miss him. But, my brain knows he is done with me and wants nothing to do with me. It would just be a big push. Thank goodness I just went to bed.

Trying to analyze where my anxiety is coming from --- he has not brought up the FO, Atty or D in over 5 weeks. Which means its due to be brought up soon. He is coming next week to pick up mail and personal paperwork from file cabinet. Will get his paperwork from his atty from his previous D trigger him to bring up our D?

Its easy for my brain to lull me into thinking that because he is not pushing as hard as he was 2months ago that maybe he doesn't want to rush any of this any longer. Maybe he is still dealing with some sort of doubt?

But, then I sit and tell myself if that were the case then he wouldn't be texting and trying to insure the cable was not in his name... if it was not why was he getting information on the bill, etc. If he was starting to have doubts about going through a second D then he wouldn't suddenly state he wasn't going to come to S18 party because it would be awkward.

Trying to solve it like a math puzzle... that's logic. But, this is emotional and no logic is going to effect that.

So I'm sitting with the idea that perhaps I should just move things forward? That puts me in control and then I no longer spend my time thinking... is this the day he texts/calls about D? Or, I get a notice that he finally has atty? But, the thought of all that work is exhausting to me... very exhausting. I will admit that I've been behaving like an ostrich with my head in the sand... i just don't want to acknowledge it let alone deal with it.

Then the other half of me is like... what if I fast track everything... and he was really trying to sit with his feelings and figure things out but I derail that by pushing it forward?

Believe nothing he says... and 50% of what he does. Does that still apply in my situation????

He wanted to be done so badly in the beginning. There was so much anger. If he is dragging his feet now... any hope that he is doubting his current choices?

Either way I'm thankful I did not give in last night and stuck it out. Maybe I need to have my AD's upped.
Oh Frack It -

He left. He is involved with someone else. There has been zero effort to make any kind of positive moved toward me... NOT EVEN HINTING AT IT.

I will get through S18 Grad Party because if MIL is there and my H's side of the family I want to keep it as stress free as possible.

I had already planned to tell H when he comes by next week that I understand his concerns about coming to the party and while I wish he would participate the choice is 100% up him and walk away. I don't want him to feel any pressure from me.... and who knows maybe its OW who pressured him into having a change in his plans that up until this week were still in him coming.

I'm tired of seconding guessing myself.

After the party I will contact my atty and move things forward.
Originally Posted by KitCat
He is coming next week to pick up mail and personal paperwork from file cabinet. Will get his paperwork from his atty from his previous D trigger him to bring up our D?

Maybe. And so? After he picks up his things from your porch--no live interactions--if he texts you about D you can wait a few hours to reply, as usual. Ask "Does having a chat with my ex about D align with my interests?" If no, then simplest is to ignore him or direct him to your attorney. Strip him of his power over you.

Originally Posted by KitCat
Then the other half of me is like... what if I fast track everything... and he was really trying to sit with his feelings and figure things out but I derail that by pushing it forward?

If he were on the fence, losing you as Plan B would generally make you more attractive.

(I haven't seen much to indicate he's on the fence.)
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/18/20 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by KitCat
I spent last night dealing with the urge to text him "I miss you". UGH... where is that coming from ???? Of course I miss him. But, my brain knows he is done with me and wants nothing to do with me. It would just be a big push. Thank goodness I just went to bed.

Your brain wants you to pursue to so it can alleviate the pain your are in right now. Understand why this is happening and understand pursuit will make matters worse and just sit with it.
Originally Posted by KitCat
Trying to analyze where my anxiety is coming from --- he has not brought up the FO, Atty or D in over 5 weeks. Which means its due to be brought up soon. He is coming next week to pick up mail and personal paperwork from file cabinet. Will get his paperwork from his atty from his previous D trigger him to bring up our D?

There is no sense fearing the future because it's uncertain right now and will always be uncertain.
Originally Posted by KitCat
Its easy for my brain to lull me into thinking that because he is not pushing as hard as he was 2months ago that maybe he doesn't want to rush any of this any longer. Maybe he is still dealing with some sort of doubt?
It's doing it's job by trying to protect you.
Originally Posted by KitCat
But, then I sit and tell myself if that were the case then he wouldn't be texting and trying to insure the cable was not in his name... if it was not why was he getting information on the bill, etc. If he was starting to have doubts about going through a second D then he wouldn't suddenly state he wasn't going to come to S18 party because it would be awkward.
That's your logical brain and it is more reliable right now.
Originally Posted by KitCat
So I'm sitting with the idea that perhaps I should just move things forward? That puts me in control and then I no longer spend my time thinking... is this the day he texts/calls about D? Or, I get a notice that he finally has atty? But, the thought of all that work is exhausting to me... very exhausting. I will admit that I've been behaving like an ostrich with my head in the sand... i just don't want to acknowledge it let alone deal with it.

Push it forward only if it benefits you.
Originally Posted by KitCat
Then the other half of me is like... what if I fast track everything... and he was really trying to sit with his feelings and figure things out but I derail that by pushing it forward?

Highly unlikely. Again, only if it benefits you.
Originally Posted by KitCat
[b]Believe nothing he says... and 50% of what he does. Does that still apply in my situation????

Look at his actions.
Originally Posted by KitCat
He wanted to be done so badly in the beginning. There was so much anger. If he is dragging his feet now... any hope that he is doubting his current choices?

This again is your brain looking for some relief. Do you want me to tell you he is having second thoughts? How would that change things? Then you will be hung up in the denial phase longer. You have to go through the process one way or another.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I had already planned to tell H when he comes by next week that I understand his concerns about coming to the party and while I wish he would participate the choice is 100% up him and walk away...

Why?! This screams "non-essential contact". The stove, so soon?
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/18/20 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by KitCat
I had already planned to tell H when he comes by next week that I understand his concerns about coming to the party and while I wish he would participate the choice is 100% up him and walk away. I don't want him to feel any pressure from me.....

You already asked him so asking him again would be nothing but pressure. Do you not see that?
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by KitCat
I had already planned to tell H when he comes by next week that I understand his concerns about coming to the party and while I wish he would participate the choice is 100% up him and walk away. I don't want him to feel any pressure from me.....

You already asked him so asking him again would be nothing but pressure. Do you not see that?


Good point.

I'll still hand him the invite with the rest of the stuff and if I say anything at all it will be that I understand and accept how he feels.

And, then not another word. The party will be great with or without him.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/18/20 04:10 PM
Say nothing!
Originally Posted by LH19
[
Originally Posted by KitCat
So I'm sitting with the idea that perhaps I should just move things forward? That puts me in control and then I no longer spend my time thinking... is this the day he texts/calls about D? Or, I get a notice that he finally has atty? But, the thought of all that work is exhausting to me... very exhausting. I will admit that I've been behaving like an ostrich with my head in the sand... i just don't want to acknowledge it let alone deal with it.

Push it forward only if it benefits you.


So if it doesn't benefit me ---- don't push through the D? Let it sit until he takes action? It actually doesn't benefit me to push things through.

What I need my brain to accept that his lack of movement is he is at the same place as me.... its just too exhausting to comprehend what needs to be sorted and divided. So we both are avoiding because it will be a lot more work than either of us want to devote to right now.

I need to sit with my anxiety. In the past I've made some really dumb moves (4mo ago at the beginning of my sitch). I would call needlessly and realized that was being driven by anxiety and that contact pushed him further away and really didn't alleviate my anxiety or if it did it was temporary.

I'm glad I sat with it last night and didn't contact - that would have been foolish and left me feeling worse.

I need to do some meditation perhaps? Never done that. I'm sure there are apps for that.

I need to act and accept that any day something may show up in the mail informing me H has atty. Or that one day there will be a text message asking where things are with D. My response is ready and practiced when that happens.

So that I've understood LH - do not push the D if it does not benefit me?
Originally Posted by CWarrior


Originally Posted by KitCat
Then the other half of me is like... what if I fast track everything... and he was really trying to sit with his feelings and figure things out but I derail that by pushing it forward?

If he were on the fence, losing you as Plan B would generally make you more attractive.

(I haven't seen much to indicate he's on the fence.)


I don't think anyone has seen anything to indicate he is on the fence. I'm just grasping at straws - I realize I'm analyzing every interaction and anytime he is relaxed and chatting more... my brain goes there.

He doesn't hate me.

That doesn't mean he still wants me.

I think its human nature to think that if I don't do something now... if I don't interrupt what he is doing... he will go for OW and not me. If DB is doing the opposite... I need to retrain my brain that if anything speaks to him at all it will be my absence.

I can leave his stuff on the porch for sure... but he still has my overhead door opener and I should really get it back. the last time I asked for it (2 months ago) he completely baulked about returning it and lied about where the second opener he had was (luckily I found the second one on the motorbike before he took it). Why in the world would he want the garage opener of all things? But, I think it was more a of control thing. That was during his anger phase. He mostly likely never thinks that its still in his truck. So, yeah I need that back.
OKAY --- this is me retraining my brain.

My M is over. My H wants a D. My H is already moving on.

I have a good life. I have a beautiful home. I have a great job.

Quarantine bites... it looks like the ports will still be on shut down in September so no sailing vaca for me but I can still get out of state and break the terrible monotony I'm stuck in.
Posted By: job Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/18/20 04:48 PM
Do not mention your son's party again. You don't realize it, but if you do mention it, you are putting pressure on him and it may feel like you are guilting him to come. Put the invitation in with his mail and say absolutely nothing more to him about it unless he brings it up.

As for the garage opener, he may feel that he is still entitled to keep it because there is no paperwork in place as well as he may think he can come there and get stuff out of the garage at any time. Question that I have for you, do you have two garage doors or one? If you have two, unplug the opener for the one he has the opener for. If you only have one door, reprogram the code. Don't ask for the opener again, order a new opener on line...serial number, make and model should be on the opener.

Trust me, unless he has a change of heart, that opener will not be returned to you. Take back the control and either change the code or get a new opener.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/18/20 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by KitCat
Why in the world would he want the garage opener of all things?

These are the crazy little things that keep you spinning. If he wants the opener it must mean he doesn't want a divorce. But your brain is able to block out his new home and OW. See how it doesn't make any logical sense?
Originally Posted by KitCat
My M is over. My H wants a D. My H is already moving on.

KK I am sorry to say your H has moved on.
Originally Posted by KitCat
So that I've understood LH - do not push the D if it does not benefit me?

Yes as long as you can sit with it hanging over your head.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by KitCat
Why in the world would he want the garage opener of all things?

These are the crazy little things that keep you spinning. If he wants the opener it must mean he doesn't want a divorce. But your brain is able to block out his new home and OW. See how it doesn't make any logical sense?


No - I never thought that him keeping the opener was a sign he didn't want a D. During the anger phase I thought it stemmed more about control. At this point I had already re-keyed and re-coded all the doors. The one thing I cannot do without paying a service call is re-code the openers... BUT, he didn't know that - he thought everything had changed... so why hold on to a non-working opener??? Just control thing.

I have since told him the actual opener works because he wanted to come over and do fence work some time back but I imagine like 50% of the stuff I say he forgets.

I'm 100% certain he doesn't even remember he has it even though its in his truck. He has never made any attempts to be here when I am not. He has never threatened to show up outside of when I first changed the locks and that was anger talking. I think he is trying to respect my space.

Originally Posted by KitCat
My M is over. My H wants a D. My H is already moving on.

KK I am sorry to say your H has moved on.
Originally Posted by KitCat
So that I've understood LH - do not push the D if it does not benefit me?

Yes as long as you can sit with it hanging over your head.
[/quote]

The plan was to have this take a year so I would have health care. At one point, my H even said we could drag this out 2yr (I doubt he remembers that because it was during his very emotional/anger time when I changed the locks and he wanted to assure me he wasn't out to screw me over --- that we could continue to let the D sit and tell the judge we still needed time to come to agreement). Yes, I know to believe NOTHING they say.

LH - If my H has indeed moved on as everyone here feels he has what would slowing down this process do? Sitting with it as long as I can. Frankly, I'm quite happy he hasn't spoken one word of it in 5 weeks - and then it was actually me being the one that brought it up 5 weeks ago. I've stopped reading anything into it other than we both just don't want to deal with the enormity of what needs to be done.

DB is slowing down the process.... giving each party time to think and giving change a chance. The initial reason I want S instead of D was that I wanted a cooling down period... he was sooooooo stressed out and sleep deprived.

So LH - the goal of not pushing the D... is?
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/18/20 06:21 PM
I never said you had to slow down the process.

Honestly, you don't have kids together so you don't have to worry about them knowing you pushed it through.

If it can help you move on then I would go for it.
Originally Posted by LH19
I never said you had to slow down the process.

Honestly, you don't have kids together so you don't have to worry about them knowing you pushed it through.

If it can help you move on then I would go for it.



I vacillate between just having it out with him... getting everything off my chest instead of stuffing it down and being done. To trying to reach a place where it emotionally doesn't effect me. To explore what a cooling off period is like - for me? for him? What if we were too hasty? What if it didn't have to come to D?

I think I need to let it sit and at the same time find a way to go about my life not looking over my shoulder.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I vacillate between just having it out with him... getting everything off my chest instead of stuffing it down and being done.

What reaction are you hoping for? If it's about getting it out so you can let go, writing a letter and then burning it works wonders. I've done that before and so have other forum members.

Originally Posted by KitCat
To explore what a cooling off period is like - for me? for him?

Exploring what "cooling off" looks like for you is fruitful. Exploring what "cooling off" looks like for him sounds futile since he's not interested (jumped right into a PA) and you can't make him.

Originally Posted by KitCat
What if we were too hasty?

Were you or are you too hasty? You don't control his haste.

Originally Posted by KitCat
What if it didn't have to come to D?

He has not filed for D, you have not filed to D. It doesn't have to come to D until one of you files. Of course, he's left you, bought a new home, and has moved on with someone else.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by KitCat
I vacillate between just having it out with him... getting everything off my chest instead of stuffing it down and being done.

What reaction are you hoping for? If it's about getting it out so you can let go, writing a letter and then burning it works wonders. I've done that before and so have other forum members.


I have an app that I write this stuff out in so that I'm keeping it to myself and maintaining NC as much as possible. That does help. But, emotionally I feel I'm at a breaking point --- mostly because I have no patience and still have that kick of "desperation" to get on this and fix it now but that's on the same track as trying to be logical with him which we all know to be a farce.

I think right now I just want to shout at him... why???? IDK... I'm a toddler and I throwing a tantrum to get his attention??? Maybe.

I know I need to continue to STFU
Quote

Originally Posted by KitCat
To explore what a cooling off period is like - for me? for him?

Exploring what "cooling off" looks like for you is fruitful. Exploring what "cooling off" looks like for him sounds futile since he's not interested (jumped right into a PA) and you can't make him.[quote]

Yes, thanks for the reminder I do not control him. But, what I meant by "for him" was some serious time and space FROM ME. Giving him his choices.
[quote]
Originally Posted by KitCat
What if it didn't have to come to D?

He has not filed for D, you have not filed to D. It doesn't have to come to D until one of you files. Of course, he's left you, bought a new home, and has moved on with someone else.


The new home was going to happen. The plan was once S18 was out of school we move to his town. Before all this came to a head and I had to kick him out... I stated I would move to his town. That was agreed upon and I owed him that for the very fact he commuted for 10yr. It was my turn to sacrifice. His response was if I did move to his town it would not be in a $200k home (what we have now). As he stated this he was getting up from the table where we were both sitting and walked away. I just agreed that it would not be $200k home.

I also recognized his stress level at the time of all of this coming down was off the charts for him not to mention his sleep deprivation... those things were not helping as it was easy to blame me for everything.

He isn't sleep deprived any longer. And, he is at a place finally in the last 4 weeks where his stress level is coming down. But, I'm sure everyone here having seen these senarios many times over still sees him choosing OW and staying on that path.

I'm saying it out loud now too.. to train my brain... to move forward... to realize a major miracle would have to happen for him to turn back and really look at me.
My male bff just pointed out to me... I'm legally separated.

He's right. I have the document to prove it.

And, the document actually states that there is hope that the marriage can be saved....

I need to go out and live my life. This is a trial period for us both.

Maybe that's why I'm no longer getting any pressure from him??? He's doing this trial period too.

Maybe I can't grasp the concept that my H is done... but I can get the idea that this is a trial. Maybe I can walk away and let things be and let him feel my absence during this trial. Reframe my thinking.

(FYI male bff doesn't feel my H is coming back so he is not trying to mislead me but trying to point me in a direction where I can be more productive and positive.)

Then maybe once I'm out here in the real world and time goes on... I will think of him less... feel less panicky... start doing the logical thing and not the emotional thing.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/19/20 01:24 AM
KK,

I really wish you would look into IC and try to work on these problems you are having of letting go. I’m not saying it’s easy because it’s not but you are clearly suffering because you’re ignoring reality. It’s not because he’s sleep deprived. There is absolutely nothing you can do to change the fact that he has moved on with someone new. You can peacock until the cows come home and it will not change anything. Time and space are the only thing that turn these things around long term.

If you want to have it out with him that have it out with him. I just want to warn you that I have never seen that work in 5 plus years here.

You have to forgive yourself and understand that you were doing the best you could at the time. Life sometimes teaches us some tough lessons.
Sailing. I think that's the ticket. Time to find someone participates in the local regattas and needs crew. I know we always did. Sail through the summer regattas and then figure out the D in the fall.

I say that like I'm all wise and shiitake. Haven't been on a boat myself this season. But its quickly moving up the priority list!
Originally Posted by ShaneG
Sailing. I think that's the ticket. Time to find someone participates in the local regattas and needs crew. I know we always did. Sail through the summer regattas and then figure out the D in the fall.

I say that like I'm all wise and shiitake. Haven't been on a boat myself this season. But its quickly moving up the priority list!


I'm land locked.... no sailing here.

But, I will find things to do. smile
Originally Posted by LH19
KK,

I really wish you would look into IC and try to work on these problems you are having of letting go. I’m not saying it’s easy because it’s not but you are clearly suffering because you’re ignoring reality. It’s not because he’s sleep deprived. There is absolutely nothing you can do to change the fact that he has moved on with someone new. You can peacock until the cows come home and it will not change anything. Time and space are the only thing that turn these things around long term.

If you want to have it out with him that have it out with him. I just want to warn you that I have never seen that work in 5 plus years here.

You have to forgive yourself and understand that you were doing the best you could at the time. Life sometimes teaches us some tough lessons.


I don't REALLY want to have it out with him. YES, I just want to be heard but no listening going on there.

Time and space.

^^^Never been my specialty. But, I will say. In my entire life I have never worked so hard on myself for any relationship. When was still living here and he would be gone for 4 days - I never contacted. I left him be to have his space. I can't ever imagine having done that for any other relationship in my life.

Even now, yes there is periodic contact over this/that and I will admit I have made some contact which wasn't necessary... but there have been long stings of no contact in between.

I've never read so many books in my life to address my short comings. How my actions make someone else feel. What actions can I practice to do differently... and I mean practice because they are a wide step from where I am. Other things were a super quick easy fix as it was 100% down to not knowing how disrespectful it came across.

I make a list most days on what I'm grateful for. I sit each evening and decide what I did better for the day and what things made me feel better.

I'm trying things out like "let go and let god". That's a little harder as have never been overly religious so maybe "let go and let universe" is better for me? IDK... that's still a work in progress.

I've spent a lot of time reading about the breakdown of being broke up and doing things as taking them off the pedestal. Understanding why I feel the way I do.

This is not my first romantic loss............. Even one that I really wanted back or a second chance. My biggest skill was pushing people away. So for the first time in my life I'm taking the steps to not make those mistakes. Its so important that I don't make those mistakes. I don't want to do anything that will make this chasm worse.

I'm doing my best to keep swinging the spotlight on me. I'm the prize.
Originally Posted by KitCat
And, the document actually states that there is hope that the marriage can be saved....


That's just standard separation language. Don't pin your hopes on stuff like that. You really do a lot of grasping at straws! The thing is, there IS hope, just not where you keep looking. The hope is way down the road and a lot has to happen before then. And you know what has to happen because it's been hammered into you here- detach. Let go. Leave him be. Accept that he's done and gone for now and for the near future.

Quote
I need to go out and live my life. This is a trial period for us both.


Yes to the first part. No to the second. It's not a trial period. The M is completely over and done. Your goal is not to resume the M. It's to free yourself from clinging to what is already gone and become the strong and independent person you need to be for you, and that -might- attract him back some day.

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Maybe that's why I'm no longer getting any pressure from him??? He's doing this trial period too.


No he's not doing a trial separation, he's done. He's not applying pressure because he doesn't need to because you've removed a lot (not all, but a lot) of the pressure from him. This happens ALL THE TIME. The LBS steps back and removes pressure, the LBS quits talking about D. It doesn't mean they've changed their mind, they just no longer feel pressured to pursue it.

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Maybe I can't grasp the concept that my H is done...


I think you do struggle with that quite a bit. You're still in a bit of denial about how done he is. Like we keep saying, later, who knows. But for now and a month from now and (probably) a year from now? Done.

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Maybe I can walk away and let things be and let him feel my absence during this trial. Reframe my thinking.


I really want you to change your mindset. Quit doing things hoping it will change his outlook. Just like the above, you say you want to walk away to "let him feel my absence". No, walk away because you need to let go. He's not going to feel your absence, he has all the warm and fuzzy feelings with OW right now. That limerence needs to wear off before he'll start questioning his choices, and that is way down the road.

Let go and move on. Your constantly coming here and hyper-analyzing every little thing he says and does or doesn't say and doesn't do is not helping you move on.
Heading out the door for a road trip!!!

Meeting female bff for some yarn shopping and then ending up at her house for knitting and gal talk.

I know 90% of the time I seem like a crazy hot mess - BUT, this is truly the greatest self improvement project I have ever undertaken.

I'm literally exhausted from reading and watching videos. Parts are hard because I'll flashbacks to 6yr ago over a stupid thing that happened and realize it never had to go that direction. My biggest problem was I would not STFU. While my words said one thing, my actions conveyed feelings of disrespect. You have no idea how much that drives me to rent a billboard with the biggest apology ever... and the self control its been taking to not suddenly text heart felt sorrows and regrets. BUT, I realize that is WHERE I am at.... and apologies are only good if the other person is at a place to accept them. For that reason, I just write it out and keep it safe. In a way I am apologizing to myself... which is a step toward forgiveness.

I'm accepting this place of limbo. Prior to this it was a complete pressure cooker... the constant texts and phone calls over the financial order.

I know that the lack of pursuit in the last 6 weeks over the financial order, attys, and D is solely due to the release of pressure. Having established a new space, new routine, new social settings has created a relaxed place. The line has been drawn in the sand and there is a defined date. If nothing is done a year from that date... its all dropped. Its 9mo off and that seems like a long time I suppose.

But, I'm also feeling a lot less pressure. Not having someone breathe down my neck with angry calls and texts over that order has let me breathe. Its also allowing me to bury my head in the sand pretending that this isn't happening which I know is not good for me at all. I have to realize at some point the ball will be picked back up and there will be forward motion.

For now off to buy yarn.
Hope you had a nice trip! I've never heard of "yarn shopping" before but hey, why not grin
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Hope you had a nice trip! I've never heard of "yarn shopping" before but hey, why not grin


The road trip overall was great! It was good to just have plans and to not be at home. "Yarn Shopping" was success. If you want high end Peruvian alpaca to make a garment that will last a lifetime you have to get to specialty stores. I bought enough yarn to make 2 sweaters - 1 for winter and a lighter one with linen for summer.

Spent some time actually knitting - currently doing a heavily cabled thigh high socks for someone and its been a challenge but they are gorgeous!

Really sat with a lot of my feelings. Started accepting that while H shows being nice/kinder which makes my brain thinks there a chance, UGH, but really there have been zero moves to show any vacillation from his current path.

As I sat with my feelings I realized that I would not be very forgiving if H blew off S18's party. H knows how unreliable his father has been over the years and H ultimately had more influence over him than anything. H doesn't want to go because he feels it would be awkward, but seeing how his own mother and nephews will be there and possibly his son and gf I think there would be lots of opportunity to avoid my family and still stay for at least 30-40mn.

BUT, its completely 100% up to him. I will not ask again. I will not apply any pressure but I'm certain I would be done with him. Its one thing to hurt me but its completely another to hurt S18. This is a once in a lifetime celebration achievement that even if H came back I would be resentful and would have trouble making peace that he did not attend. (By being done with him... I would walk but still would do nothing to help him with HIS D.)

I also sat and reflected on the fact that I had ignored his Bday but 6 days later he wished me Happy Bday in a text. He also made sure to text S18 that the next day was Mother's Day and on Mother's Day he simply texted Happy Mother's Day ( I did not reply.) If I'm so willing to mentally draw a line in the sand over H not coming to party to be the end all, then I should really mirror his efforts (but nothing MORE.)

I texted "Happy Father's Day" @9:30pm at night. - I put the phone on the nightstand and rolled over to go to sleep.

I only texted because I was 100% certain I knew how he would respond. I knew he would immediately respond with - thank you. I knew that there would be nothing more. He knew I was out of town all weekend and I knew he would not ask a single question - such as how was your weekend, etc. Because i knew this to be how it would go down and I accepted it meant nothing more than social niceties I texted. I was tempted to send this old funny 3sec video of all the kids, BUT I did not because that would not be mirroring his effort but instead doing more.

2min later my phone dinged for a text message. I 100% knew it was H and as I said I already knew what it would say. I never bothered to roll over to pick up the phone. It just really didn't matter to me what the text said period. I went to sleep.

I didn't even bother to look at the phone until I was already up for awhile and getting ready to head out the door. Yup, text from H saying "thank you". Shoulder shrug and out the door.

I was pretty ambivalent to all of this. I completely understand now that H reaching out with Happy Birthday/Mother's Day AND his response to Happy Father's Day ALL come from a place of compassion AND not a place of attraction. And only when things come from a place of attraction do they mean anything. I accept this and for that reason don't feel that this set me back at all. I am continuing radio silence unless something important warrants it.


Other than that I'm planning my next trip in September which needs to have a PLAN A and a PLAN B because up in the air if the ports will even be open at that time.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/22/20 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by KitCat
The road trip overall was great! It was good to just have plans and to not be at home. "Yarn Shopping" was success. If you want high end Peruvian alpaca to make a garment that will last a lifetime you have to get to specialty stores. I bought enough yarn to make 2 sweaters - 1 for winter and a lighter one with linen for summer.

I am glad you had a good time this weekend!
Originally Posted by KitCat
Really sat with a lot of my feelings. Started accepting that while H shows being nice/kinder which makes my brain thinks there a chance, UGH, but really there have been zero moves to show any vacillation from his current path.

So it sounds like logically you understand but then the following sequence of events happen below.
Originally Posted by KitCat
As I sat with my feelings I realized that I would not be very forgiving if H blew off S18's party. H knows how unreliable his father has been over the years and H ultimately had more influence over him than anything. H doesn't want to go because he feels it would be awkward, but seeing how his own mother and nephews will be there and possibly his son and gf I think there would be lots of opportunity to avoid my family and still stay for at least 30-40mn.

So you have been with back to back man who have been $hitty father figures. This is something you should be exploring with IC. Why you pick crappy men.
Originally Posted by KitCat
BUT, its completely 100% up to him. I will not ask again.

I bet you lunch you ask again.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I will not apply any pressure but I'm certain I would be done with him.

Ok. We shall see about that.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I also sat and reflected on the fact that I had ignored his Bday but 6 days later he wished me Happy Bday in a text. He also made sure to text S18 that the next day was Mother's Day and on Mother's Day he simply texted Happy Mother's Day ( I did not reply.) If I'm so willing to mentally draw a line in the sand over H not coming to party to be the end all, then I should really mirror his efforts (but nothing MORE.)

And here we go!
Originally Posted by KitCat
I texted "Happy Father's Day" @9:30pm at night. - I put the phone on the nightstand and rolled over to go to sleep.

How did you sleep afterwards?
Originally Posted by KitCat
I only texted because I was 100% certain I knew how he would respond.

Actually very predictable
Originally Posted by KitCat
I knew he would immediately respond with - thank you. I knew that there would be nothing more. He knew I was out of town all weekend and I knew he would not ask a single question - such as how was your weekend, etc. Because i knew this to be how it would go down and I accepted it meant nothing more than social niceties I texted. I was tempted to send this old funny 3sec video of all the kids, BUT I did not because that would not be mirroring his effort but instead doing more.

100% guaranteed you never get the response you are looking for when you send a desperate text
Originally Posted by KitCat
I didn't even bother to look at the phone until I was already up for awhile and getting ready to head out the door. Yup, text from H saying "thank you". Shoulder shrug and out the door.

I am sorry you didn't get the respose you wanted.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I was pretty ambivalent to all of this. I completely understand now that H reaching out with Happy Birthday/Mother's Day AND his response to Happy Father's Day ALL come from a place of compassion AND not a place of attraction. And only when things come from a place of attraction do they mean anything. I accept this and for that reason don't feel that this set me back at all. I am continuing radio silence unless something important warrants it.

KK. You need IC really bad. You are spinning out of control and unfortunately it is going to get worse before it gets better. Denial is the easiest of the stages of grief.
Originally Posted by KitCat
[ If you want high end Peruvian alpaca to make a garment that will last a lifetime you have to get to specialty stores. I bought enough yarn to make 2 sweaters - 1 for winter and a lighter one with linen for summer.


That's awesome! I've dabbled in a lot of stuff, these days I mostly sculpt fired ceramics but I've painted, built cars and motorcycles, built models and dioramas, designed, built and flown R/C planes, and yes I've even sewed and knitted. Those last two I did just enough to know I DO NOT have the patience for it, LOL! But I did it enough to have undying respect for those that can stick it out enough to make an entire blanket or garment grin

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Spent some time actually knitting - currently doing a heavily cabled thigh high socks for someone and its been a challenge but they are gorgeous!


Wish we could post pics here, would love to see your work!

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As I sat with my feelings I realized that I would not be very forgiving if H blew off S18's party.


Why let that get to you. He's already a deadbeat husband, does it really shock you that he's probably a deadbeat step-dad too?

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H doesn't want to go because he feels it would be awkward, but seeing how his own mother and nephews will be there and possibly his son and gf I think there would be lots of opportunity to avoid my family and still stay for at least 30-40mn.


Here's the thing- he is 100% completely selfish. He probably wasn't before, but he is now. Everything is all about him and filling HIS needs and HIS desires. The wants and needs of others do not factor into his thinking right now. And it will be this way for a while. So when we say have no expectations, it means just that. Don't expect him to do husbandly things. Don't expect him to do fatherly things. Don't expect ANYTHING of him. You continue to expect him to do the honorable thing, and you are continually disappointed, right? His behavior has unfortunately been consistent since BD. You've got to accept that this uncaring a-hole is who he is now and drop those expectations!
Originally Posted by LH19

Originally Posted by KitCat
As I sat with my feelings I realized that I would not be very forgiving if H blew off S18's party. H knows how unreliable his father has been over the years and H ultimately had more influence over him than anything. H doesn't want to go because he feels it would be awkward, but seeing how his own mother and nephews will be there and possibly his son and gf I think there would be lots of opportunity to avoid my family and still stay for at least 30-40mn.

So you have been with back to back man who have been $hitty father figures. This is something you should be


I think that's pretty $hitty of you to make that asumption. I parted ways with S18's dad during pregnancy - he lived over 1000miles away at the time. Did make a move solely to be involved with his son but in the last several years for work had to move over 1000 miles away in the opposite direction. There are of course lots of other nuances that don't really belong in this forum.

And, then you assume that I split from S18's father and directly went to H????

Uh, no... So becareful of putting too many assumptions in my story when there is such limited information.

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Originally Posted by KitCat
I also sat and reflected on the fact that I had ignored his Bday but 6 days later he wished me Happy Bday in a text. He also made sure to text S18 that the next day was Mother's Day and on Mother's Day he simply texted Happy Mother's Day ( I did not reply.) If I'm so willing to mentally draw a line in the sand over H not coming to party to be the end all, then I should really mirror his efforts (but nothing MORE.)

And here we go!
Originally Posted by KitCat
I texted "Happy Father's Day" @9:30pm at night. - I put the phone on the nightstand and rolled over to go to sleep.

How did you sleep afterwards?


I slept PERFECTLY!!!!


Quote
Originally Posted by KitCat
I knew he would immediately respond with - thank you. I knew that there would be nothing more. He knew I was out of town all weekend and I knew he would not ask a single question - such as how was your weekend, etc. Because i knew this to be how it would go down and I accepted it meant nothing more than social niceties I texted. I was tempted to send this old funny 3sec video of all the kids, BUT I did not because that would not be mirroring his effort but instead doing more.

100% guaranteed you never get the response you are looking for when you send a desperate text


???? I got the exact text I predicted I would get...

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Originally Posted by KitCat
I didn't even bother to look at the phone until I was already up for awhile and getting ready to head out the door. Yup, text from H saying "thank you". Shoulder shrug and out the door.

I am sorry you didn't get the respose you wanted.


I had zero expections. Again - I got the exact text response I expected which is why I never bothered rolling over and looking at my phone until I was heading out the door. Before I fell asleep I heard my phone give a notification --- I could not be bothered to even look. Didn't care. Wasn't really interested. Didn't even check my phone period until i was out the door for work checking to be sure didn't have other business matters to address.

Quote
Originally Posted by KitCat
I was pretty ambivalent to all of this. I completely understand now that H reaching out with Happy Birthday/Mother's Day AND his response to Happy Father's Day ALL come from a place of compassion AND not a place of attraction. And only when things come from a place of attraction do they mean anything. I accept this and for that reason don't feel that this set me back at all. I am continuing radio silence unless something important warrants it.

KK. You need IC really bad. You are spinning out of control and unfortunately it is going to get worse before it gets better. Denial is the easiest of the stages of grief.


But, I'm not spinning. I was like "whatever"... it hasn't impacted my day. The point was I was trying to post that it didn't bother me --- his response either way didn't bother me and I predicted his response... and it doesn't bother me.

I went to work and I'm not going "oh my gosh he texted me immediately... that must mean something... or he texted me what does that mean?" I agree I've had those "panicked" moments oh dear lord he texted me... what does it mean???

Apparently, I did not get across very well that neither had expectations nor feel his response means anything. It did not send me spinning which why I discussed it --- because I did not have those same emotional storms that I have had previously. It is what it is and nothing more.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/22/20 07:58 PM
KK,

Your son will be graduating HS and neither dads will be there. I think that speaks volumes but I am a very involved dad so maybe I am wrong.

Why did you send the Happy Father's Day text? Please be honest with me.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander


Here's the thing- he is 100% completely selfish. He probably wasn't before, but he is now. Everything is all about him and filling HIS needs and HIS desires. The wants and needs of others do not factor into his thinking right now. And it will be this way for a while. So when we say have no expectations, it means just that. Don't expect him to do husbandly things. Don't expect him to do fatherly things. Don't expect ANYTHING of him. You continue to expect him to do the honorable thing, and you are continually disappointed, right? His behavior has unfortunately been consistent since BD. You've got to accept that this uncaring a-hole is who he is now and drop those expectations!



Well that's just it... I'm having NO expectations for what he does or does not. I had no plans to bring it up again. He has been informed. His invite will be in the mail he picks up.

What I'm saying is that I don't know if I would get over his choice to not be there. There is no need for me to go into it here but I was always there for him and his children in ways I never should have to have been. His XW did some really crazy stuff to me personally, to my H and to his kids. He knows, his family knows and even when he BD me the first thing out of his mouth was the very fact of how vital for him with his kids when we were together (I will not go into it here but it was a very horrible situation for my H)

I do see your point about where he is at with being selfish and how that affects what he sees as important/choices.

Keep in mind in the same sentence he states it would be awkward to come to the party he turns around and says he wants to move S18 into college... for me to let him know when that is.... (TRUST ME... I'm not asking H to help move S18 to college. I'm quite capable)

So what I'm saying is if H doesn't make the effort to be there even for 30min... and then 10mo down the road starts saying he wants to repair the M. I don't think I could look past that... because S18 carries enough hurt from the situation. Like I said hurt me... whatever... hurt my kid... you'll get whats coming to you.

Either way its TONS of speculation on my part and its too much energy wasted to worry. H is an adult. H will do what he wants or doesn't want to do. The party will be awesome either way.
Originally Posted by LH19
KK,

Your son will be graduating HS and neither dads will be there. I think that speaks volumes but I am a very involved dad so maybe I am wrong.

Why did you send the Happy Father's Day text? Please be honest with me.


Well S18 dad just texted him last night that he will come. (I will not speculate why he first said he wouldn't come versus why he is coming now... not my circus... not my monkeys.)

But, again LH I caution you on making assumptions ---- which you have done not once but twice with this situation. I'm sure if you asked S18's father if he felt he was a very involved dad he would probably say YES, but IDK. There's a lot of dynamics at play in this situation and I gave up YEARS ago trying to understand. I just do me and let him do him.

Add in the fact that S18 dad lives in the state with the HIGHEST number of COVID deaths --- was that a factor in his decision??? Sad fact is I had friends who couldn't be there in the hospital for their family and funerals where no one could attend.

For the Father's Day text -- wasn't desperation. I would have been fine not sending it. WHY did I send???? For the reasons I outlined... He wished me Happy Birthday and Happy Mother's Day. If I feel I may not get over him NOT coming to the party for S18... then maybe he feels if I can't be cordial enough then that's the reason he doesn't come to the party???

So I just mirrored his regards --- AND, had no expectations. I didn't send some frilly meme or GIF. Just plain text just like he did AND just 3 words.

Had he not done the birthday or mother's day text I would have sent NOTHING.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/22/20 09:54 PM
KK,

You know you are right I am making assumptions based on your postings which is just a microcosm of your life. $hiity dads is probably uncalled for and I apologize but your current husband is a $hitty person for what he is doing to you and I will not get off that point.

As for the text. I read in a book once that when you do something nice for someone who is treating you badly you are displaying low value. So I'm my sitch my ex has to continued to disrespect me and complicate my love so she gets nothing out of me other then what is needed in regarding kid coordination. I can't have people in my life that do not respect my feelings. It's a boundary. It goes for everyone else in my life too.

I know this isn't easy and I have a lot of compassion for you. I would really like to see you stop trying to fix this and start to move in the opposite direction.
Originally Posted by LH19
KK,

You know you are right I am making assumptions based on your postings which is just a microcosm of your life. $hiity dads is probably uncalled for and I apologize but your current husband is a $hitty person for what he is doing to you and I will not get off that point.

As for the text. I read in a book once that when you do something nice for someone who is treating you badly you are displaying low value. So I'm my sitch my ex has to continued to disrespect me and complicate my love so she gets nothing out of me other then what is needed in regarding kid coordination. I can't have people in my life that do not respect my feelings. It's a boundary. It goes for everyone else in my life too.

I know this isn't easy and I have a lot of compassion for you. I would really like to see you stop trying to fix this and start to move in the opposite direction.


I agree 100% that I have at times texted unnecessary items to H ---- stupid things like "what about that motorbike ride today"... "are you busy". THOSE were completely not necessary and SCREAM that I am displaying LOW VALUE.

I accept that those slip ups were driven by my anxiety. I'm disappointed in myself that I have done those things - it is definite chasing, pleading, begging behavior.

I'm not in a bad headspace and I didn't lose a bit of sleep last night whether he chose to respond or not. I'm still a work in progress but when I weighed everything carefully, made sure I had zero expectations, and made sure to only mirror that which was done for me - I felt it kept things cordial. And, with that H may not avoid the party which is still 3 weeks away.

I'm also managing zero expectations around the party. There will be many people there and no reason that he will need to interact with me at all. That being said I will not avoid him if he chooses to speak to me.

I still have my moments (though last night was not one of them) but overall I know logically there is nothing for me to fix. I must keep walking in the opposite direction. I have things to work on and I'm really doing the hard work... sometimes I can only spend 10min here or 15there because it is painful. H isn't interested in my hard work at this time. If there is a time he wants to return to looking at the M then that is the time for me to tell him I'm sorry for my disrespectful behavior... until then I have to keep it to myself.
KC, I know it's hard, but you really need to let the party thing go. You also need to let go of feeling like you need to mirror his actions towards you. It's odd that you keep saying you only texted him because he texted you - you texted him because you wanted to, and you also apparently haven't kept the notifications from him silent if you heard it. I know it can be easy to come here and try to talk yourself into believing what you know you should do, and there's no harm in being honest with yourself (privately or here). He isn't some rubix cube or puzzle to figure out - there isn't some magic combination of behaviors related to you that is going to make him change his mind right this moment. You spend so much time dissecting everything - even when you say you aren't. Sure sometimes that means you aren't in a bad headspace necessarily, but you're still wasting resources on him that are better used on yourself.
Originally Posted by SamCal
KC, I know it's hard, but you really need to let the party thing go. You also need to let go of feeling like you need to mirror his actions towards you. It's odd that you keep saying you only texted him because he texted you - you texted him because you wanted to, and you also apparently haven't kept the notifications from him silent if you heard it. I know it can be easy to come here and try to talk yourself into believing what you know you should do, and there's no harm in being honest with yourself (privately or here). He isn't some rubix cube or puzzle to figure out - there isn't some magic combination of behaviors related to you that is going to make him change his mind right this moment. You spend so much time dissecting everything - even when you say you aren't. Sure sometimes that means you aren't in a bad headspace necessarily, but you're still wasting resources on him that are better used on yourself.



I did change H texts from Unmuted. Muting them helped tremendously when I would panic if a text notification popped up... was it him. At the time I was getting several texts and some left me spinning.

Now I rarely get a text and when I do it doesn't really trigger me as before. I started using a note app on my phone and it helped a lot with the anxiety. I unmute his texts. Overall things have calmed down. He hasn't sent an angry text in over 2 months.

Whether H goes to party is up to him. I have no plans to mention it again.

I'm not mirroring every move my H does. I made a choice to acknowledge and I made sure that my acknowledgement did not exceed his... keeping level.

I really appreciate your input.

I've also read your thread and there were many times you chose to do what you felt was best and not necessarily DB. This for me was one of those choices. I had zero expectations... and have remained neutral. I sat with my feelings over it for some time.

While I have done a lot of.actions that I would now choose to do differently... I have seriously texted dumb things unnecessarily... often time just to see if he would text me back... how lame of me.

But I do not regret this particular text at all.

I'm still a work in progress. Today was a fantastic day for me... my emotional state has been extremely steady today... so much so that male bff who lives far away messaged me today wanting to know was I really ok... I was so at.peace today he could sense a strong change in me... a vibe that was sooo different... and I take that as a win!!!!

Idk... tomorrow is a another day... will this neutral vibe continue??? I hope so but I also expect I still have some hard days ahead too.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/23/20 09:12 AM
KK,

So in general you sending the Father’s Day text would be ok if you were moving on. Since I suspect you are still hoping for reconciliation then this sets the clock back to zero for you. You are trying to get to a place to where he’s wondering about you. Hmmmmm today is Father’s Day and I got nothing from KK. I wonder what she’s doing?
Originally Posted by KitCat


I did change H texts from Unmuted.


I do not think you were ready for this. Did you do this out of a place of strength, or weakness? Did you do it out of courage or of fear?
Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by KitCat


I did change H texts from Unmuted.


I do not think you were ready for this. Did you do this out of a place of strength, or weakness? Did you do it out of courage or of fear?



I did it out of strength.... Fear was not a factor at all -- fear of what??? Missing out??? Aren't I already there??? Courage??? I'm not sure I would use that to apply to anything I've been doing.

It boiled down to 2 things 1) It was getting difficult to text someone without bringing up the text menu... so even if his text was muted I would still see it at the top of the text menu AND 2) with H having 98% of his stuff there is NO reason to text and he hasn't been. Because he no longer texts, when I do get a text notification the last thing I assume is its from him. So I'm no longer panicking "why is he texting? blah blah blah". There have been NO angry texts in 2 months and those were the ones that made me spin the most.

I will admit my 4hr drive home on Sunday - yes he was on my mind alot. But, yesterday I have just a complete peace... really and truly.

I will have to see him tomorrow morning. I will have his stuff together. I plan on letting him and allowing him to get what he feels he needs but I will be busy doing other things. I will not look to engage him in anything. If he feels that he needs to speak with me he can come to me. I will listen what he feels he needs to say but I will not be adding anything to the conversation. I'm not trying to mind read but I am prepping myself that he will most likely bring up my atty and legal stuff since its been 6weeks.

No one feels that he will ever come back and want to work on the M. I'm at a place where I know this is the truth... but I will always have hope because I'm the optimist.
I'm not understanding why all that meant you couldn't keep his texts muted, but whatever.
Originally Posted by Steve85
I'm not understanding why all that meant you couldn't keep his texts muted, but whatever.


It was more work to avoid the texting app when I needed to text other people...

But, if I'm not spinning because I see a text pop up any longer... is it necessary to keep it muted?
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/23/20 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by KitCat
No one feels that he will ever come back and want to work on the M. I'm at a place where I know this is the truth... but I will always have hope because I'm the optimist.

I think there is a good chance he will some day. Just not on your timeline.

My friends parents got back together after 35 years apart and they hated each other.
Originally Posted by KitCat
What I'm saying is that I don't know if I would get over his choice to not be there. There is no need for me to go into it here but I was always there for him and his children in ways I never should have to have been. His XW did some really crazy stuff to me personally, to my H and to his kids. He knows, his family knows and even when he BD me the first thing out of his mouth was the very fact of how vital for him with his kids when we were together (I will not go into it here but it was a very horrible situation for my H)


This is just perplexing to me. Your H fired you and shacked up with another woman. That's not a deal-killer for you, but if he doesn't attend his step-son's graduation then that is a deal-killer? I mean I'm not excusing his lack of interest in attending, I've already been clear on my thoughts on that and his selfishness. But why are you randomly drawing a line in the sand over it? I mean if that's a deal-killer then you should really just be done and move on because he's done far worse already.
Originally Posted by KitCat
Originally Posted by Steve85
I'm not understanding why all that meant you couldn't keep his texts muted, but whatever.


It was more work to avoid the texting app when I needed to text other people...

But, if I'm not spinning because I see a text pop up any longer... is it necessary to keep it muted?


When you're not even close to being detached? Yes.

KC, your denial is intense.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by KitCat
No one feels that he will ever come back and want to work on the M. I'm at a place where I know this is the truth... but I will always have hope because I'm the optimist.

I think there is a good chance he will some day. Just not on your timeline.

My friends parents got back together after 35 years apart and they hated each other.


Well I can say with 100% certainty... we don't hate each other... but when the D is final I won't be looking to go back. I've come to feel that is the biggest betrayal of all. The giving up.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander


This is just perplexing to me. Your H fired you and shacked up with another woman. That's not a deal-killer for you, but if he doesn't attend his step-son's graduation then that is a deal-killer? I mean I'm not excusing his lack of interest in attending, I've already been clear on my thoughts on that and his selfishness. But why are you randomly drawing a line in the sand over it? I mean if that's a deal-killer then you should really just be done and move on because he's done far worse already.




RIGHT????

I think when it comes to the relationship with H... I can see the role I played in how empty and neglected he felt. I'm not using that as an excuse for his choices but I am not making myself blameless in the dysfunction of our M.

I think its the momma bear thing.... hurt me... that's on me... hurt my kid... GAME ON BUSTER!
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/23/20 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by KitCat
Well I can say with 100% certainty... we don't hate each other... but when the D is final I won't be looking to go back. I've come to feel that is the biggest betrayal of all. The giving up.

I have a hard time following your logic. You don't consider a PA and the purchase of another house giving up but a piece of paper is the nail in the coffin. Do you think right now he is just playing a terrible joke on you? I am being serious by the way.
Originally Posted by Steve85


When you're not even close to being detached? Yes.

KC, your denial is intense.


I respect your viewpoint. Its often hard to see things when your on the inside verses someone on the outside with no emotional attachment.

It really just doesn't bother me... actually a text just popped up. I had been texting two other family members so wasn't expecting him to text. But, he did but it was "tomorrow morning?" - so he is just confirming that he is coming out to get his mail.

It is what it is... but I accept that I am perhaps still deep in denial and probably not detached enough. BUT, I'm not dealing with vicious anger from him any longer and I've held my ground on the financial order.

PLUS --- unrelated side note!!!! I just got told I look 35!!!! (I'm 51.... ) AWESOME!!!!
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by KitCat
Well I can say with 100% certainty... we don't hate each other... but when the D is final I won't be looking to go back. I've come to feel that is the biggest betrayal of all. The giving up.

I have a hard time following your logic. You don't consider a PA and the purchase of another house giving up but a piece of paper is the nail in the coffin. Do you think right now he is just playing a terrible joke on you? I am being serious by the way.


I know it doesn't make sense... BUT, that is how I feel.

The buying the house was happening regardless... Remember I had promised to move with him once S18 was out of school. Even in the beginning of the situation before the actual PA he stated if we did work this out I would be coming to him (new house) and he would not be returning to this home. He was under such incredible stress and sleep deprivation --- the day he brought up separating he had probably had 10hr sleep in the last 4 days.

So buying the home is not a big deal. We had already decided to do that right down to the type of loan we would be looking for --- exactly what he did.

The PA is a big deal AND in order to ever R there would have to be some serious amends on his part plus some serious changes going forward. He would have to have some sort of "I ROYALLY SCREWED UP AND I'M SO SORRY. IS THERE A WAY TO WORK THROUGH THIS?" So please don't think I'd just roll over and roll out the red carpet for him. We would have some serious work to do. I've looked into a marriage retreat weekend which would be a requirement before taking any steps toward R. All I'm saying is that I haven't closed the door.

I've got some strong sentimental attachement to M, our wedding date. I won't go into it here but those sentiments are more mine than his as they are personal to me outside of my H. I would completely not forgive him if the D was final... to me that's giving up. I don't want to be with someone who gave up when it got hard... because I would never do that.

We all have our quirks --- ^^^that's mine... LOL
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/23/20 03:44 PM
Fair enough. I may not understand your logic but I respect it.

BTW:

"I ROYALLY SCREWED UP AND I'M SO SORRY. IS THERE A WAY TO WORK THROUGH THIS?"

Never happens.
Originally Posted by LH19
BTW:

"I ROYALLY SCREWED UP AND I'M SO SORRY. IS THERE A WAY TO WORK THROUGH THIS?"

Never happens.

I was just thinking, seen many attempts at R after a PA here, that’s rarely how it plays out.

They’ll be coping with grief over losing a high and maybe a loved one, facing doubts, and maybe trying to avoid shame.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by LH19
BTW:

"I ROYALLY SCREWED UP AND I'M SO SORRY. IS THERE A WAY TO WORK THROUGH THIS?"

Never happens.

I was just thinking, seen many attempts at R after a PA here, that’s rarely how it plays out.

They’ll be coping with grief over losing a high and maybe a loved one, facing doubts, and maybe trying to avoid shame.



Good to know. Not even close to being there and may never be there.
Originally Posted by KitCat
PLUS --- unrelated side note!!!! I just got told I look 35!!!! (I'm 51.... ) AWESOME!!!!


First- you go girl grin Second, wow for some reason I pictured you as 30's based on your story and posting. How hold is your H?

Regarding the mama bear comment, I do understand what you mean there. That makes sense.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Originally Posted by KitCat
PLUS --- unrelated side note!!!! I just got told I look 35!!!! (I'm 51.... ) AWESOME!!!!


First- you go girl grin Second, wow for some reason I pictured you as 30's based on your story and posting. How hold is your H?

Regarding the mama bear comment, I do understand what you mean there. That makes sense.


H is 48.
That was the MOST painful interaction to date.

He came by to pick up his mail. Getting his paperwork out of the file cabinet. Tracking down his yearbooks.

I look beautiful today. I'm wearing a dress. Lovely deep shade of purple with a fun print. I have my hair tied back loosely and just bare minimum make up.

He brought the puppy!!!!!! smile I was grateful to see the puppy. It was 100% the right thing to do in letting him have the puppy. Not really having time for 2 dogs and H has really bonded with him well. The puppy gets to go to the farm several times a week and run/play in the creek. H says he is very well behaved in the house but had to stop putting him in the kennel because he again figured out how to get out of the latest one he bought.

No eye contact. No smile. No jovial joking... that is until S18 made an appearance looking disheveled just getting out of bed coming to the kitchen. Then H's tone softened and was casual and joking.

I couldn't take the silence. He didn't make any effort to ask anything about me - work, party, etc. So I just asked basic things like how was work - actually got a little animation from him as he did an eye roll talking about office politics. I asked about fishing then just talked about the puppy.

I played with the dog outside by myself. H did not join. Once back in the house I continued to interact with dog. I had some of H's paperwork packed up but suggested he go through the cabinet to get anything else that was his. I left the room and left him to it.

I had a recently knit sweater that was being blocked in the kitchen and pointed it out that it was done (it was a work in progress at an earlier move out time.) He casually looked but seemed confused so I just said that is the yarn you bought me in Jacksonville.... "oh". Then I showed him a work in progress with the yarn he "surprised" me with in January... stated if I needed more he knew where to go get it (the town he works in). Well, I mentioned I couldn't go further as needed more... if he wanted to do me a favor.... NO GO.... NO TAKING THE BAIT... no interest in doing me a favor.

S18's party invite was on top of his mail. He picked it up and turned it over to look at the details - date and time and read them out. I did not say ONE word about would he come/go to party. The only thing I said is it was going to be over $300 for tent... how I wished he had not already taken the one he was holding for his friend at our house and if we could have asked to borrow it... THAT GOT NO RESPONSE. So I dropped it.

Followed him and the dog outside as he loaded up the truck and then stood for the longest time watching the construction of the new house across the street. I just stood there too and he asked if I knew who the new neighbors were yet... talked about the pool and how its always busy now... he mentioned they would be finishing the road soon (I live on an uncompleted street so it dead ends now but it will eventually become a large loop as development continues.

I said yeah, I probably won't be here when that finally gets done... "oh, where are you going to go?" <<<<< that was the only thing he asked me all day. I let it drop and didn't answer he was putting the puppy in the truck and just said good bye.

At prior visits... there would always be this moment... this moment where the wall came down a bit... and he would just say something without thinking "the motorbike ride" on one visit, "oh, do you need me to make dog treats for you" on another visit. There were no small cookies to be doled out... it seemed so incredibly completely finished.

I feel sad for sure.

He must really love her.

Crap - he just called. "did I leave something on the table?" - yes, it looks like you left your yearbooks that you took out of the sun room. "#$%%*&". I didn't say anything at first and he mentioned he was already almost back to his town. I said you can pick up if you come to S18 party, OR if your mother is here I can sent it with her... silence... OR you can come by another time... "Oh, OK, I'll work something out" - which I 'm sure means to have his mother pick them up when she is here for S18 party.

NOT ONE WORD about atty's, financial order, S or D... Honestly, I figured when he asked for the paperwork from his prior D atty that would have triggered him to bring something up... NOT A WORD. Also not one bit of anger... not any villification.

I absolutely hate this.

My only option is NC and to stop looking over my shoulder.
Oh---- the only saving grace it that he asked to use the bathroom right after he arrived. I said of course.

He always goes right to the MB bathroom... whatever.

But I made sure to the sexiest, silkiest nighties hanging on the hook which he had to walk right by to get to the toilet... LET HIM WONDER WHO THOSE WERE FOR...

JERK
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/24/20 02:22 PM
KK,

So much for not mention the party to him again lol.

Condom wrappers in the bathroom would have been better then the nighty lol.

2-5 years KK. Will you wait that long?
Did you tell him to change his forwarding address?
You can also leave his stuff outside in a box
So. Many. Expectations.
Quote

So much for not mention the party to him again lol.


^^^^ RIGHT??? I don't even know where that came from. He seemed so utterly frustrated and I the ever problem solver... trying to find a fix. BUT, I also mentioned that they could be sent with his mother when she is at the party... sort of letting him know he's an adult and figure out his own life.

Quote

Condom wrappers in the bathroom would have been better then the nighty lol.


Maybe but that would have made me feel dirty... I still wear my ring and consider myself married at the moment. I don't mind leaving around a sexy nighty... because frankly I'm tending to wear them.

I should have been wearing them more for my H like I used to... but here we go down the same hole where I got stuck in my own head, not feeling comfortable in my own skin... MY ISSUES that H internalized that I lost feelings for him.

Anyway - down 24lb... I need to appreciate the hard work to start looking good again even if he won't... so I try to not wear frumpy pj's all the time.

Quote

2-5 years KK. Will you wait that long?


Probably not... I will stand as long as my D isn't final. If the D gets drug out 2yr... IDK... maybe. While H threw out 2yr separation at the very get go.... and then again when I changed the locks... he stated we could take 2yr to figure to finalize everything and he wasn't out to screw me over ---- everything else he has said is that he will give me a year.

I just have to accept that he loves her. Feels he has more in common with her.... there are running with a shared group of old high school friends. SURE, one could argue that we have a shared history... but they clearly have a shared history too.

All I got is NC.
Originally Posted by Steve85
So. Many. Expectations.


I know.

What did I think was going to happen??? Like he would invite me to dinner at his house or something??? He might try to initiate a hug???

Maybe if he would just come out and tell me he has found someone who he thinks is very special and a better fit for him than me and he really loves her... maybe if he would say it out loud to me... it would get through my thick skull...

But, he never says anything.

But, he is not himself around me. Its like the Great Wall of China there.
Originally Posted by Ginger1
You can also leave his stuff outside in a box


I could - and I have in the past.

My only issue is that there is new construction happening across the street which means lots more traffic and several dozen sub contractors. I wouldn't leave out used kitty litter at the moment.

Last time there was construction next door to me there were thefts from my home... things just walked off...

I have to take that off the list right now. But, I can certainly arrange time with S18 - he seems to be nicer to him anyway.

I mentioned the address thing but I couldn't tell if he was listening to me - he seemed distracted. Frankly he didn't seem to react to 2 other things I brought up as well. I just walked away and let him go through things without me over his shoulder.
KC, what I can say is that this stuff is difficult. I know I come across as harsh with you at times. That is not my intent. I just feel so much for you, and understand your struggle. It is like when my W was depressed at the end of her EAs. Watching her hurt over another man was brutal. So please know, I understand your pain.

My goal for you is to get past that pain asap. And the only way to do that is to move on. So when I see you backtracking I get stern....not because I don't care, but because I do.

I wish I could give you a magic-wand that you could wave and make this all go away. Unfortunately, there is not. Please just keep protecting yourself. Think of expectations as more opportunities to hurt you again. When you drop the expectations, you take away his ability to hurt you. Admittedly, that doesn't happen overnight.

((((((((((KC)))))))))))))
I was so desperate for the anger to stop... and managed to get to a place of emotional neutral with him. But, now I feel that he is just indifferent. At least with anger there was some emotional attachment.

I get that anger is from pain.

I thought it was good when the anger dissipated and vilification stopped - but now there is so much more distance... at least with anger I knew where I stood?

Is that weird???

I mean what 4months ago standing in the kitchen together and he is angry. His voice and tone are harsh... so much anger H-"IDK MAYBE I JUST WANTED TO HAVE HOPE" Me - "I want to have to have hope too" BUt, there was eye contact!!!

To today. We are both standing in the kitchen. Not an angry bone or muscle between us. Our voices are calm and respectful. He doesn't look at me directly. His face is emotionless. Our talk is casual... about his work, his fishing. But, he has no interest in what I'm doing.

I thought getting through the anger and being calm and respectful of each other. The big steps I've taken to let go of control and to show him more respect... would open the door for more intimacy between us but just seems to have brought us to opposite sides of the Grand Canyon.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/24/20 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by KitCat
But, he is not himself around me. Its like the Great Wall of China there.

Because he can feel your desperation. If he gives you one look or smile and you will jump his bones or something. You've tried a dress, exposing your tatas and nips. Next time just greet him at the door in your birthday suit lol.

I have to give you credit that your are tenacious. You're delusional but determined and that should count for something. lol

I whish you luck KK!
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by KitCat
But, he is not himself around me. Its like the Great Wall of China there.

Because he can feel your desperation. If he gives you one look or smile and you will jump his bones or something. You've tried a dress, exposing your tatas and nips. Next time just greet him at the door in your birthday suit lol.

I have to give you credit that your are tenacious. You're delusional but determined and that should count for something. lol

I whish you luck KK!


It was 8:30am in the morning on my day off... I considered just answering the door in that sexy nighty rather than just leaving it on the hook... smile

UGH - I'm trying to be calm and neutral. I'm also dressing great so it helps me feel great... I didn't go on about the undergarments I had on under the dress... LOL. I've dropped weight. I've increased in strength --- I look good and I'm going to show that off!

But I'm still wearing the perfume of desperation... that's what he smells...

Yeah... tenacious... but what many 5'2" women are not... LOL We have to get the world to notice us down here! But, not the first time I've been called that... I see something I want... I make a plan... been that way since 3rd grade. frown
Originally Posted by KitCat

I mean what 4months ago standing in the kitchen together and he is angry. His voice and tone are harsh... so much anger H-"IDK MAYBE I JUST WANTED TO HAVE HOPE" Me - "I want to have to have hope too" BUt, there was eye contact!!!



This is going to hurt to face, but it is important. For you that meant you wanted hope in the saving the MR. For him, he meant hope in general (as in to him staying in the MR meant no hope). Remember, believe nothing he says. WSs are notorious for talking in double-speak. They say things in a way so that when you take it the way you want to, later they can claim they didn't mean it that way. If you later say to him "You told me in the kitchen you wanted to have hope in us too" he would quickly point out that he didn't say "in us".

KC, I know you've struggled with this. But anger towards didn't meant that he was not going to come back. And being nice doesn't mean he was going to come back. Being indifferent doesn't mean one or the other.

But I do like that you said you need to go NC and not looking at him over your shoulder...because that is exactly what you have been doing.
Posted By: LH19 Re: I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 16 - 06/24/20 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by KitCat
UGH - I'm trying to be calm and neutral. I'm also dressing great so it helps me feel great... I didn't go on about the undergarments I had on under the dress... LOL. I've dropped weight. I've increased in strength --- I look good and I'm going to show that off! frown

This is all good stuff and 23 pounds at age 51 is very impressive. Having said that like the Rolling Stones song "you can't always get what you want".

Zero expectations and keep moving forward.
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