LH, may, thanks for the kind words!
I'm in a nasty custody battle. In reality it [censored]. But I do feel balanced and prepared for anything, and I can see a way out whereas before I was stuck.
Re: anxiety - I'll share some thoughts sometime soon either on my thread or Core's thread.
Small update ~
Finally, a year after moving out and 6 months after retaining my L, I am getting a little bit of traction. Actually some major traction. I can't reveal much.
I would say it is a huge relief, but I have gotten used to handling things with equanimity especially the last few months. By learning not to be reactive to the nonsense going on in the past, I've also learned to take successes in stride. I feel more content and at peace than I have at any point. I hope it lasts.
It is not enjoyable to go through the legal process, but I feel like I exhausted my other options and handled things in accordance with my values. Some of the things being said in these legal filings are absolutely shocking - just outright lies and fabrications Even 3 months ago I think I would be in an anxious tailspin. Now I accept this is how family law goes, and almost everything that transpires confirms my conviction that I am better off now.
I am really grateful that I found my L. She has delivered every step of the way, and always takes my input into account. It's extremely expensive, and in the end we will likely come to the agreement we should have been able to reach at the kitchen table without lawyers.
I have an offer to transfer to an exciting position within my company -- not sure if I am going to choose to do so right now. I've been exercising a lot - either lifting weights in my garage, or surfing when I can. Life is good.
I’m so happy to hear this update, U!
The lies are shocking in that they say them without compunction and believe them without hesitation. Liars lie and cheaters cheat, that part isn’t too shocking.
You sound so calm and strong. It’s been a long time coming. Congratulations.
Thanks scout.
Disentangling my situation is a big mess right now. Lots of saber-rattling from STBXW. It is exposing how low she is willing to sink to get her way. It is extremely stressful, but one way or another things will resolve and I am on the path to a happier life.
Had she been willing, I probably would have at some point tried to piece and work on MR2.0. At this point, I am glad that did not happen. Maybe it's grey-colored glasses. I've learned how much I neglected myself during our MR - largely but not entirely due to my own fault - and how I will never allow that to happen again. The only single thing I regret at this point is the impact of D on my children, but I believe
I met my W in my mid-20s. At the time I thought she was meeting my needs, mostly by listening and paying attention to me. I had no clue what I wanted. We shared some common interests. She listened to me. Over time things tilted towards mostly adapting to her desired lifestyle. Maybe it was me allowing it to happen. Maybe she was controlling. I think it was a bit of both. I think back sometimes to red flags from very early in our relationship, things that I would notice now in my wise older age
I'm mostly posting this stuff because I spend time thinking about how I want to live in the present, and going forward: What do I want out of life? What kind of people do I want in my life?
Thanks scout.
Disentangling my situation is a big mess right now. Lots of saber-rattling from STBXW. It is exposing how low she is willing to sink to get her way. It is extremely stressful, but one way or another things will resolve and I am on the path to a happier life.
Had she been willing, I probably would have at some point tried to piece and work on MR2.0. At this point, I am glad that did not happen. Maybe it's grey-colored glasses. I've learned how much I neglected myself during our MR - largely but not entirely due to my own fault - and how I will never allow that to happen again. The only single thing I regret at this point is the impact of D on my children, but I believe
I met my W in my mid-20s. At the time I thought she was meeting my needs, mostly by listening and paying attention to me. I had no clue what I wanted. We shared some common interests. She listened to me. Over time things tilted towards mostly adapting to her desired lifestyle. Maybe it was me allowing it to happen. Maybe she was controlling. I think it was a bit of both. I think back sometimes to red flags from very early in our relationship, things that I would notice now in my wise older age
I'm mostly posting this stuff because I spend time thinking about how I want to live in the present, and going forward: What do I want out of life? What kind of people do I want in my life?
Hey U -
Good to see you here, man! I am glad that you are feeling more calm and sure of yourself. That goes a long way toward rediscovering who you are. Good for you
It is probably best to not rewrite history. I learned that lesson from my parents' D. Instead - look at all the positives you had as a result of your MR - esp 3 great kids
I am learning a lot about life too, as you are. The biggest thing I have come to realize is this. What happened, happened. It was what it was. It's our attitudes and feelings that determine if it was "good" or "bad". It's incredible to think about how our attitudes about the past change from time to time, our memories fluctuate and shift all the time, but the situation itself is always, well - neutral. It's part of life, I guess.
Anyway - don't forget how long WAS timelines are. Maybe in 4 or 5 years W will wake up and realize what she no longer has. Or maybe not. It's impossible to predict the future. I am already approaching year 4 total of W's "crisis". When they say these things are marathons, they mean it.
Keep yourself even and steady as you have been. You're doing great, man
Take care and stay strong
IW - thanks for checking in.
Things that have happened in the past few months, which I haven’t posted about much for anonymity’s sake, have cemented that I am completely done. I may forgive but I will never forget.
Everyone here has a different tolerance level for the WAS I guess. I don’t think of it in terms of how long it might take for them to turn around. I just came around to the idea that I deserve happiness. Living under a microscope where my WAW is just waiting for something to happen so she can take the kids away - that’s not tolerable for me. We had something pretty good when we were younger, it gradually eroded. My W has never been one to take responsibility for her part in relationship conflict, whether with me, her family, friends, colleagues. I guess she may change at some point. I’m not waiting around. Yes, DB preaches patience and equanimity. It also preaches self-respect and self-care. I calmly reached the point where I realized, to my core, that I needed to secure my future with my children, and move on 100%. This process is difficult, but had I not initiated it, I would still be stuck in limbo. I realized I was trying too hard to be some super-Zen patient monk, rather than just try to be happy day to day. It’s a fine line... when do you move on? How long do you stay patient while life goes by? It’s different for everyone. It takes time for a WAS to turn back towards the MR. or it may never happen?
Put simply, I called her bluff after a year of hoping things could shift towards at least an amicable D. And she proved me right by showing she was planning to take them away all along. There will be no R and I am 1000% okay with that! I am at peace.
Holy Fuch U you are the man! I’m proud of you and how far you have come in the last month.
Stay strong brother!
unchien
Followed you from the beginning, have just spent a couple of hours skimming back over your threads.
What a paradigm shift, your growth has been monumental.
Your, new U, strength will see you through this. The light at the end of the tunnel will continue to get brighter and brighter.
Your future is you and you have got this. Keep on keeping on.
Thanks all.
Nothing of significance to report today, just felt like a brief check-in. It's been a full year now since we told the kids we were separating.
Sometimes this D feels like such a cliche. Lawyers send their kids to college due to false allegations in D cases. I've always known my W was extremely determined, and true to form she is not budging on any... single... thing. I tried so many alternative paths through, so I do not feel troubled in any way that things have come to this point. It seems really pointless and wasteful but I'll make it out alive.
I spend most of my time now thinking about the present and also what I want out of life going forward. Life smacked me in the face with a solid 2x4. Maybe my MR could have been saved had I taken steps to address my issues sooner... years sooner. Maybe that would have been enough to get us through a rough patch.
Doesn't matter... I'm pretty sure in this parallel universe, I am a happier person.
One side thing that happened recently: My W and I had agreed early on to keep mutual friends out of our D. She violated our agreement egregiously recently. The friends seem a little naive, but they essentially got involved on her behalf and it's hard to believe they would be gullible enough not to realize what was going on. I'm not angry, but I'm also left wondering if I want to keep that friendship or let it fade.
Sometimes this D feels like such a cliche. Lawyers send their kids to college due to false allegations in D cases. I've always known my W was extremely determined, and true to form she is not budging on any... single... thing. I tried so many alternative paths through, so I do not feel troubled in any way that things have come to this point. It seems really pointless and wasteful but I'll make it out alive.
So long as she makes you the bad guy in her mind, she doesn't have to face what she's done and doing now. I don't know how it is in your part of the world, I've often heard by many here to "stick it to the man and get every penny" in the D. In fact I've heard that many times from my Ws friends and family when talking about others. That's the mentality out there which is just wrong IMO.
One side thing that happened recently: My W and I had agreed early on to keep mutual friends out of our D. She violated our agreement egregiously recently. The friends seem a little naive, but they essentially got involved on her behalf and it's hard to believe they would be gullible enough not to realize what was going on. I'm not angry, but I'm also left wondering if I want to keep that friendship or let it fade.
I can see why you'd be debating that friendship. The W getting them involved is unnecessary. It puts them in a awkward spot whether they know it or not. I'm glad you're keeping your head up about it.
U
It's been a while since I posted on your thread. I guess it's because you seemed like you were in a good place and there wasn't much for me to add. I wanted to say thank you for the response you gave on May's thread re the manipulation that goes on re kids from our spouses when they start to feel we are trying to move forward with our lives. It was eloquently put and articulated something that I had felt for a long time but could not put my finger on.
Anyway, I wanted to say stay strong. Your advice on other people's threads are invaluable. Read through your recent posts on your own thread and ask yourself, if it were someone else's thread, what advice would you give.
You know the answer.
FS
Life smacked me in the face with a solid 2x4.
Yes, this tends to happen. Life is not easy sometimes, it is full of challenges and obstacles. I've sure had a lot of 2x4s in life - some much worse than others. Those 2x4's hurt a lot - but you gain invaluable experience and become a lot tougher for it.
Maybe my MR could have been saved had I taken steps to address my issues sooner... years sooner. Maybe that would have been enough to get us through a rough patch.
Marriages are 50/50. You were 100 percent responsible for 50 percent. W was 100 percent responsible for 50 percent.
Be kind to yourself, forgive yourself
One side thing that happened recently: My W and I had agreed early on to keep mutual friends out of our D. She violated our agreement egregiously recently. The friends seem a little naive, but they essentially got involved on her behalf and it's hard to believe they would be gullible enough not to realize what was going on. I'm not angry, but I'm also left wondering if I want to keep that friendship or let it fade.
Hard to tell without context what this means, but I totally get the need for anonymity.
Believe none of what they say.
If the friends are unaware of all that is going on, I wouldn't blame them.
Take care, U - stay strong buddy
Thanks all. Regarding this friend situation, It is a friend of mine from college and his W. Over time, my W and his W have bonded, to the point their friendship is stronger than ours in many ways. His W has gotten involved to a level that leaves me wondering what is going on. My sense is that the whole thing is toxic and I want no part of it. My friend is likely an innocent bystander. My W is manipulative. My friend's W -- I don't know what's going on there. She's an intelligent woman.
OK screw the anonymity. My friend's W wrote a letter supporting my W's parenting, which was an attachment to legal paperwork. That's only half of it. She also involved herself in the complication of sorting out our assets.
In any case, I'm just standing back and taking my time to sort it out. My friend reached out to me last week, but I have no idea what to say so I'm leaving it for now.
Ah the old mutual friend dilemma.
From my experience during all of this (and I made a lot!! of mistakes at the early outset of my sit), the best thing to do with any friend that you would like to keep is - do not talk about your situation. At all.
It's unfortunate because you lose that dimension of the friendship, but it is the only thing that works. Especially with H' and W couple friends. They invariably will talk to each other - no matter what they may tell you. Just assume that whatever you talk to your friend about will - by degrees of separation - get back to your W.
If I want to keep a friendship (and I've kept them all) I find a polite way to divert the topic if the MR comes up.
"Yes, it's difficult but I would prefer not to talk about that right now. (Pause) Did you see the (latest news topic/sports event/social media posting? That was crazy."
"Yes I know, it's tough. But it will all work out the way it's supposed to."
Or some U-ish way to say something like that.
OK screw the anonymity. My friend's W wrote a letter supporting my W's parenting, which was an attachment to legal paperwork. That's only half of it. She also involved herself in the complication of sorting out our assets.
Any chance your W switched teams? You are one of the very few where there is no confirmed OP.
There's a stat somewhere U, that when one woman divorces, it can be contagious with their friends. My W fit the mold and asked for D two months after her friend did. I say this because if you're close with the H, he may benefit from a 2x4 decreasing his risk of following suit.
Another vote for the contagion theory, 2014 was the beginning of the end for W and her 2 closest friends.
I definitely think my W caught the D contagion from 2 friends a couple years ago.
Whether there is an OM or OW, I don't know and don't really care, although I had a recent suspicion about an OM and as is often the case where there is smoke there is fire.
Whether my W passes on the contagion, that's not my issue. I would be stunned if this particular couple D'ed, but who knows? Flip a coin, right?
It's been awhile since I posted.
My W has really dug her heels in on every position at this point. It's sad to watch so much of what we saved and worked for go towards legal expenses, instead of our futures and our kids' futures.
As a brief synopsis: She is trying to buy me out of our home, but she doesn't have a reasonable offer on the table (she wanted to use the kids' college funds!). She has not gone back to work yet, even though we separated a year ago. She continues to fight any change to our existing timeshare. And on all 3 points, it is clear that the legal process is going to work in my favor.
I understand some D's become very high-conflict. This is just a snapshot in time. But man... I am really happy I am not going to be spending the rest of my life with this woman. Her inability to communicate, her manipulative methods to try to get her way... it's shocking. My L is shocked. Although we now share joint custody, she continues to argue that the children should not have local medical care, but instead should continue to see doctors from hometown. It's crazy how even the most minor things become flashpoints. I know she may not be this way forever. But some of her behaviors -- the subtle gaslighting and manipulation and control -- have always been there to a degree.
Now that I've been standing up for myself for awhile, it's interesting to watch her struggle to adapt to this new dynamic. She keeps going back to her bag of tricks, and I feel... indifferent. I see somebody who has no interest in understanding my point of view, somebody who seems very entitled, and somebody who hasn't accepted that she cannot pick and choose the aspects of our MR that she wants to keep.
Emotionally I'm feeling great. I know this is a financial disaster, and I see signs that I will need to work to repair some of the damage with my son as he and his mother have a very "special" relationship right now. Life could be worse. I'm going to make the best of it. I've been working out a ton in my garage, and go surfing as much as I can - I think I finally found my passion hobby.
I used to be a heavy planner. I planned out my retirement, I thought about how much money I would need. Now... I have no idea where life is going to take me, and I'm excited specifically BECAUSE I don't know. I'm fortunate that I'm pretty sure I'll survive financially and get through this, and I don't take that for granted. Other than that, I'm in good healthy so are my kids, I live in a beautiful place, I get to do things I like to do, and I'm a much happier person than I was the prior 40 years of my life.
unchien, great update. I like your standing up for yourself and you indifference to her bag of tricks. Great 180s there, and you are to be commended.
Unfortunately, D always has been and always will be a financial disaster. Anyway you slice it. Even if you gave in and let her have everything she wants it would still be a net financial loss. It does suck, no doubt about that. But you will come out of this with your head held high, having a great level of respect for yourself, and she will respect you too. Even if she doesn't like you, and if your pocketbook is lighter.
Better to be happy and broke, than miserable and rich.
Onward and upward!
Unchien, it's great to see you taking charge! Hope your lawyer finds you a less costly path through this, but if it has to be expensive, I agree your kids and your relationship with them is worth it.
This is a wonderful update. It’s great to see the calm, positive, and clear-thinking man that you’ve become.
I am so glad you are doing well, Unchien. You're not the same person as you were a few months ago, are you?
Hey U, hope you're continuing to kick A despite the circumstances. I was recommended the book "Splitting" to help with high conflict divorces. Its mainly for spouses with NPD or BPD, which at times many WWs seem to fit the mold. Whether theyve the conditions or not. Anyway, as I read through it, I see our sitchs left and right and got me thinking about you. It could be worth looking in to if you want a few answers. Where you are in the process it may not be as helpful but still an interesting read.
Thanks everyone for the positive vibes!
Journal ~
My D situation has devolved big-time and I'm looking at another 6 months minimum to resolve this D. The day-to-day legal details are interesting (I feel like I could write a book about some of the crazy things happening - I wish I could share here but I'm hesitant while the legal proceedings continue) and do consume a significant part of my attention each day. But I'm not obsessive about it. I have a big week coming up here on that front, and hope things go well. But if they don't, I'll keep my head up and go forward from there.
A few months ago I started on an SSRI (non-addictive) for anxiety. It was a difficult choice for me to make, but has made a huge difference in my life. I knew someone else taking this medication, asked many questions, and decided to ask my doctor to try it. We don't talk much on the boards about medications, probably for good reason, but I wanted to share my experience a bit in case it helps others.
I don't feel like a different person. Mostly, I find myself spending a lot less time in mental ruts - obsessive, negative, worrying thinking patterns. I approach life with more equanimity. The techniques I've learned here and in IC come much more naturally. It feels liberating -- I realize how debilitating my anxiety has been not just in the past year, but in my life.
I think it was very important for me to work on myself first (IC, CBT, meditation, etc.) before trying medication. Now that my anxiety has lessened, I am able to focus on other issues in IC and I am making a lot of headway there also.
I'm hoping this is a temporary help to get me through a difficult phase. If not, I'm okay with that.
Taking care of yourself in positive ways, after careful thought and research, is always a good thing, my friend. Taking a treatment for a condition so you can move forward to your best life with confidence is not the same as numbing out. Well done.
Thanks Alison.
Journal ~
Yesterday was a big day. A really really really big day.
There were some developments leading me to have high hopes that my situation with my children will move forward within the next month. Part of me is thrilled, relieved.
I also saw how far my STBXW was willing to go with accusations. Part of me is stunned, sad, angry.
Part of me is cautious and wary. I don't really trust that good news will come, even though I have strong indications. I don't believe it.
And part of me is just absolutely utterly exhausted from the past year-plus. I'm so mentally and emotionally tired of living under the microscope.
I have so many mixed emotions rattling around. Big emotions. But I feel completely okay for now handling them, observing things and letting them settle down. Meanwhile I'm in a semi-state of shock.
It's possible my STBXW is going to make things even worse. I'll face that if it comes. The things I heard yesterday were truly appalling. But I handled myself calmly and assertively. No way I could have done that a year ago.
Hi U -
I'm glad to hear that your situation is moving forward again.
It's a good idea to not react. It works wonders for any and all situations, I have found. It keeps you off the chaos train.
Try not to have any expectations. The future will be what the future will be. You've done the best that you possibly could given an almost impossible situation.
Let those words and accusations be her reality. They are not yours.
And finally - I'm right there with you on the exhaustion-o-meter, man. 100 percent.
Take care - keep yourself even and strong
Thanks IW.
I'm officially in a high-conflict D. It's bad. Doing my best to keep the kids sheltered from the conflict.
I know both parties will say "it's not me" but honestly... it's not me!
I always thought people in these situations act out like the couple in "War of the Roses"... fighting over every little minor thing. That's just not the case for us.
What this is, and why I hope my story is useful for others here right now, is a fight over "the truth." And isn't that what every LBS/WAS situation comes down to?
My WAW has a narrative: I'm a monster. She's a victim. Full stop.
I have my own narrative. My W resents me for moving. She has rewritten the last 4-5 years of our life to blame me 100% for her unhappiness.
Whenever it appears we might resolve an issue in our D, my W will come with NEW allegations, overblown exaggerations from the past, and on and on. It's stunning and honestly scary, and I never know what's coming next. It seems manipulative and calculated most of the time, although I tend to think what is happening is that she has grabbed on so tightly to her narrative to justify her actions that letting go would be akin to self-annihilation.
I used to care about what she thought. I used to hope we could at least communicate better so we could co-parent effectively and give our kids a chance. I gave up months ago. It's not up to me. I'll keep acting in accordance to my values, and leave the door open (for co-parenting, not R, just to be clear). But I won't be looking over my shoulder. It's sad for our kids, but it takes two.
At one point in mediation a few months back my W said "I believe you can redeem yourself" or something to that effect. That is the moment I knew I no longer cared about her narrative. It was so patronizing. I don't know care what happened to her as a child, or in previous relationships, or whether she has a MLC or a hormonal imbalance, or some medical condition. I don't believe the things she says to me. She apologized recently to me, in person, for the first time I can recall, and all I could think was, "She only apologized because her lawyer told her to."
I sound a bit angry. I guess I am, although I don't really obsess about it or act upon it. I'm okay with my anger. I know I made mistakes in our MR, and I take responsibility for my part. But this D process is absolutely ridiculous at this point. I accepted my MR was over almost a year ago, after a lot of grieving. Now I'm incredibly grateful to the universe for extricating myself from a MR with this person. Not just because of the discord, which may dissipate over a period of years, but because I see things for what they are... she is an uncompromising person who has no skills to work through conflict. I saw it during our MR with her relationships with family, friends, colleagues. I just didn't realize at some point that laser focus would be directed my way. It's more important to her to drag me through the mud than to support our children. That's not on me. Perhaps one day I'll forgive, but I'll never forget.
I'm not a seasoned legal divorce expert or anything of the sort, but a few things stand out. You might already know these things, or I could be off base.
"My WAW has a narrative: I'm a monster. She's a victim. Full stop."
As you know, by not using mediation (I'm not sure if you're still trying) both people are basically saying, "we can't be trusted to agree on day to day decisions, so could the judge/nanny state make them for us." So you get hardline decisions that might include only using that one doctor, or only parent pays for college etc. That's not to say that's how it will go with your D, but that's a hurdle you'll need to clear. That is to say, we can't agree because she's nuts. That said, it is my understanding that going into divorce court with a victim mentality is a sure fire way to embarrass yourself. Let her continue to do this.
You mentioned in a previous post that she has poor relations with her family. Could they come to your side? That happens.
"She apologized recently to me, in person, for the first time I can recall, and all I could think was, "She only apologized because her lawyer told her to."
Lawyers never tell their client to apologize before trial. That's not to say she was definitely sincere. I'd doubt it too.
U~
I am so glad to see your growth. Hang in there and you will come out fine in the end. I remember each time a new accusation came from my EX it was simply astonishing and emotionally devastating. I was accused of rape, fraud, child neglect, physical abuse, emotional abuse, using D14 as a weapon against her ... and so much more. It wasn't until June that the judge finally made a ruling and it ended finding me innocent of everything. Meanwhile half of the things I was accused of, she was doing to either me or D14. I also lost some friends because they believed her or took her side. I came to a point where I realized they were never really my friend if they truly believed I was capable of any of those things. I cut them from my life and have never had a regret.
You are doing amazing!
Now I'm incredibly grateful to the universe for extricating myself from a MR with this person. Not just because of the discord, which may dissipate over a period of years, but because I see things for what they are... she is an uncompromising person who has no skills to work through conflict. I saw it during our MR with her relationships with family, friends, colleagues. I just didn't realize at some point that laser focus would be directed my way. It's more important to her to drag me through the mud than to support our children. That's not on me. Perhaps one day I'll forgive, but I'll never forget.
You sound strong and sure in your position and you've come such a long way. Seeing things for what they really are truly gives you a sense of freedom doesn't it? The key is like what you said - the universe is freeing you from this person who is not worthy of your love and time. The process may be difficult and painful, you will get to the other side. Wishing you the best of luck!
Thanks IW.
I'm officially in a high-conflict D. It's bad. Doing my best to keep the kids sheltered from the conflict.
I know both parties will say "it's not me" but honestly... it's not me!
I always thought people in these situations act out like the couple in "War of the Roses"... fighting over every little minor thing. That's just not the case for us.
What this is, and why I hope my story is useful for others here right now, is a fight over "the truth." And isn't that what every LBS/WAS situation comes down to?
My WAW has a narrative: I'm a monster. She's a victim. Full stop.
I have my own narrative. My W resents me for moving. She has rewritten the last 4-5 years of our life to blame me 100% for her unhappiness.
I'm sorry to hear that, U.
You are doing the right thing by keeping your kids sheltered - good!
Motivational post inbound: Remember - it's her drama. It's her problem. You are not involved in that problem or that drama. That is not your reality and that is not your responsibility anymore - you keep even and steady and strong in the hurricane. Let your kids see how strong you are. Don't let W get to you. It's not your crisis or whatever. Be AMOAFWL.
Whenever it appears we might resolve an issue in our D, my W will come with NEW allegations, overblown exaggerations from the past, and on and on. It's stunning and honestly scary, and I never know what's coming next. It seems manipulative and calculated most of the time, although I tend to think what is happening is that she has grabbed on so tightly to her narrative to justify her actions that letting go would be akin to self-annihilation.
Don't mind-read, its wasting your time. be steady and strong
I used to care about what she thought. I used to hope we could at least communicate better so we could co-parent effectively and give our kids a chance. I gave up months ago. It's not up to me. I'll keep acting in accordance to my values, and leave the door open (for co-parenting, not R, just to be clear). But I won't be looking over my shoulder. It's sad for our kids, but it takes two.
At one point in mediation a few months back my W said "I believe you can redeem yourself" or something to that effect. That is the moment I knew I no longer cared about her narrative. It was so patronizing. I don't know care what happened to her as a child, or in previous relationships, or whether she has a MLC or a hormonal imbalance, or some medical condition. I don't believe the things she says to me. She apologized recently to me, in person, for the first time I can recall, and all I could think was, "She only apologized because her lawyer told her to."
Who knows why she apologized. Compassionate indifference. Distance - leave her to her crisis as much as you can. Spinning those thoughts is a cheeseless tunnel.
I sound a bit angry. I guess I am, although I don't really obsess about it or act upon it. I'm okay with my anger. I know I made mistakes in our MR, and I take responsibility for my part. But this D process is absolutely ridiculous at this point. I accepted my MR was over almost a year ago, after a lot of grieving. Now I'm incredibly grateful to the universe for extricating myself from a MR with this person. Not just because of the discord, which may dissipate over a period of years, but because I see things for what they are... she is an uncompromising person who has no skills to work through conflict. I saw it during our MR with her relationships with family, friends, colleagues. I just didn't realize at some point that laser focus would be directed my way. It's more important to her to drag me through the mud than to support our children. That's not on me. Perhaps one day I'll forgive, but I'll never forget.
Understanding may never come. It's ok to be angry. Just don't show it to the kids. At some point things will smooth over and you will have to co-parent with this person for a long time. Best to stand firm with your boundaries, but also to try and mitigate the damage on your side of the street if at all possible. You can't control what she does, but you can control what you do
You sound so strong now U - good on you! Keep going, keep being AMOAFWL and the best dad ever (which you already are)
Take care, man - stay strong
As you know, by not using mediation (I'm not sure if you're still trying) both people are basically saying, "we can't be trusted to agree on day to day decisions, so could the judge/nanny state make them for us."
Yep, and I am comfortable with this. As background, we spent 6 months in co-parenting counseling post-S (in 2019) and then 3 months in mediation. My W showed zero willingness to compromise, and any time I tried to get any sort of movement towards my viewpoint, she would immediately raise allegations and get worked up and emotional.
She hasn't returned to work in a year. She wouldn't budge on the children. She's tried to move away with the children.
What I have been primarily asking for is basically what a judge/nanny state is likely to grant. I am 100% positive this is the best path forward for me at this point. It's a waste of resources and really sad that we can't work together, but I will always feel like I tried very hard to pursue all other reasonable avenues.
You mentioned in a previous post that she has poor relations with her family. Could they come to your side? That happens.
Possibly. I was mostly noting it as a pattern of her black and white thinking and inability to work through conflict.
Both my W and I come from what I would call "emotionally immature" families, immature in different ways. In my case, my father was emotionally distant (due to a disastrous D in his first marriage) and my mother has some sort of personality disorder issue which I won't go into for brevity's sake. My W's parents met in high school, and they still act like high schoolers. They argue and then don't talk to each other for weeks. They are highly emotional people and often throw reason to the wind to justify their actions made in anger or distress.
I see my W aligning herself with family members she previously had cut off. Just an observation.
I remember each time a new accusation came from my EX it was simply astonishing and emotionally devastating. I was accused of rape, fraud, child neglect, physical abuse, emotional abuse, using D14 as a weapon against her ... and so much more. It wasn't until June that the judge finally made a ruling and it ended finding me innocent of everything. Meanwhile half of the things I was accused of, she was doing to either me or D14. I also lost some friends because they believed her or took her side. I came to a point where I realized they were never really my friend if they truly believed I was capable of any of those things. I cut them from my life and have never had a regret.
Roosk ~ I'm sorry you went through all this. As I've posted here and followed your situation, I always thought it sounded crazy and imagined my situation would never get to that point. Now I'm seeing the same things happening. I never in a million years thought my W would have been capable of this, but here we are. It happens. I'm sure you also were stunned.
Do you ever wonder if you should have been able to detect your XW was capable of these things earlier? In my case, I always knew my W was uncompromising and controlling to a degree. But I thought at the time she was "driven" and a "self-starter" and admired her confidence. Now I think she has an inability to take responsibility for her actions and lacks self-awareness. I know these situations can be "he said, she said" but the accusations have reached a level of craziness that is completely astonishing.
Seeing things for what they really are truly gives you a sense of freedom doesn't it?
Completely.
This process has been life-changing for me. I know that there is no objective "truth" but I am confident and self-assured and I'm not going to question my reality the way I used to.
Motivational post inbound: Remember - it's her drama. It's her problem. You are not involved in that problem or that drama. That is not your reality and that is not your responsibility anymore - you keep even and steady and strong in the hurricane. Let your kids see how strong you are. Don't let W get to you. It's not your crisis or whatever. Be AMOAFWL.
One thing I am proud of is that I'm good about keeping this away from my kids, and I'm letting my W spin. Unfortunately I do have to work through the legal issues at hand and engage at that level.
From everyone involved (therapists, lawyers, etc.) I can probably expect it to take another year or more before my W and I can really start co-parenting effectively. It is sad for my children. I will of course keep trying and keep my kids out of the drama. I'll hope for sooner but at the moment I have zero confidence my W is ready to engage at a reasonable level.
Who knows why she apologized. Compassionate indifference. Distance - leave her to her crisis as much as you can. Spinning those thoughts is a cheeseless tunnel.
Definitely. I don't want to give the impression I am obsessing over these things. I am curious.
You sound so strong now U - good on you! Keep going, keep being AMOAFWL and the best dad ever (which you already are)
Thanks IW - I'm trying to be a "good enough" dad haha.
Do you ever wonder if you should have been able to detect your XW was capable of these things earlier? In my case, I always knew my W was uncompromising and controlling to a degree. But I thought at the time she was "driven" and a "self-starter" and admired her confidence. Now I think she has an inability to take responsibility for her actions and lacks self-awareness. I know these situations can be "he said, she said" but the accusations have reached a level of craziness that is completely astonishing.
There were red flags that she could do this but I did not look at them because I loved her. She never had a good relationship with her parents, brother, or really had any long-lasting friends. I met her in college because my roommate was dating her best friend. Her best friend never wanted to go alone so would bring my EX over and we ended up getting to know each other. The friendship blossomed into much more even when my roommate broke up with my EX's best friend. One day her best friend and her just stopped talking and my EX never explained why. Anytime I was with my EX and we saw her old friend she would glare at my EX and shoot lightning from her eyes. I found that would happen a lot to my EX, she would make friends and then one day they would mysteriously never talk or associate with her again. She would always claim she had no idea why that would happen. She is the most bubbly, exciting, driven, energetic, happy person I have ever met. The only problem is if you turn your back she would stick a knife in you and watch you die the whole time with a smile on her face or tell you how sorry she is for having to kill you.
Rooskers ~ Thanks for the response.
My EX has a similar history of having very close friends and then having the relationship completely implode. Or sometimes she lets those people back in, even after they have treated her poorly. Lately, in our D, I have noticed her drawing near to people who she used to bad-mouth about all the time.
When she does have close friends, it is a warm relationship. She is not cold and mean to everybody all the time. Sounds similar to your case.
I don't obsess about this, but it does boggle my mind how this happens. I always knew there were high-conflict D's, but figured one of the people was "crazy" or "vindictive" or "calculating" and whoever married that person was naive and gullible. I don't think I'll ever really understand, and I'm okay with that.
Anyways... it's full-blown L time for the next few months for me while we sort this out.
Journal ~
I'm feeling a mix of feelings lately. A little bit overwhelmed, a little melancholy.
I've been living in a lot of fear the last year. More recently, I've felt very positive about how things are progressing and I see light at the end of the tunnel. But now that things might resolve... I'm overwhelmed.
Home-schooling 2 little kids while watching a third while I WFH... global pandemic... little support system (I know, this is up to me to work on, but the pandemic does not make it easy).
I never mentioned this here before but I dipped my toes into the dating pool a bit in the past several months. Looking back I should have waited before starting, although there were a lot of positives from the experience. At the time I didn't really believe what people told me -- I figured a single dad with 3 little kids was not going to have much luck in the area I live in. But I went on a couple dates and it was a really positive experience. It was nice to connect with women going through similar experiences in their lives. I ended up dating a woman who also had 3 kids for a couple months, then realized we were not on the same timetable and parted ways amicably. I wasn't truly ready for a relationship to progress at that time.
I realized many positive things. Most importantly, I need to be solid and grounded in myself to be a healthy relationship partner. And a close second -- I do not need to settle.
Journal ~
I'm feeling a mix of feelings lately. A little bit overwhelmed, a little melancholy.
I've been living in a lot of fear the last year. More recently, I've felt very positive about how things are progressing and I see light at the end of the tunnel. But now that things might resolve... I'm overwhelmed.
Home-schooling 2 little kids while watching a third while I WFH... global pandemic... little support system (I know, this is up to me to work on, but the pandemic does not make it easy).
Overwhelmed is an appropriate word, I think. The pandemic is something none of us were prepared for and could not have predicted. I keep forgetting - then it dawns on me that that is a big part of the background drama ongoing in all of this.
This is part of why I am simifying everything. I want calm and peace in the middle of all this chaos. Let the rest of the world go rushing ahead in their mega-yacht and crash full speed into the reef. I'm content with my little sailboat.
I never mentioned this here before but I dipped my toes into the dating pool a bit in the past several months. Looking back I should have waited before starting, although there were a lot of positives from the experience. At the time I didn't really believe what people told me -- I figured a single dad with 3 little kids was not going to have much luck in the area I live in. But I went on a couple dates and it was a really positive experience. It was nice to connect with women going through similar experiences in their lives. I ended up dating a woman who also had 3 kids for a couple months, then realized we were not on the same timetable and parted ways amicably. I wasn't truly ready for a relationship to progress at that time.
Everyone has to do what they feel is right - so take what I write with a grain of salt.
Part of reason I'm not interested in dating is that I am not sure I would be able to separate my attachment issues from wanting to be in a new R.
Another part of it is because it complicates my life tenfold at a time where I'm still dealing with the fallout from decades of buried trauma.
The other part is that I just don't want to.
Again, that's just my take.
Take care U - stay strong.
Good Morning U -
Haven't been on here much but stopped by yesterday to update my situation and to catch up on a few others that I have followed. I feel like your situation and mine are very very similar...I have said that before and as you continue to write things I continue to see my situation in the proverbial mirror.
If you read my update you know mine is now finalized. It all happened very quickly. Lots of sabre rattling and lies about my parenting and blah blah blah from the beginning up until the end. Had her parents and friends writing letters to the court about me to put me down. Lies about mental health issues, child abuse, spousal abuse, sexual abuse, etc...every day there was a new story. I am happy it is over. I am sad that it had to be this way...i did the best i knew how to diffuse the situation but nothing worked. Being under the thumb of a legal system and being forced to 'prove' yourself over and over again to the court to disprove false allegations gets old in a hurry and is very expensive.
In the end I sacrificed a little bit and she feels she 'won' and is bragging to her friends about defeating the 'big bad evil man'. Every situation is different and I am not advising you to sacrifice in order to end it. But that is how it happened for me. I have to leave with the military...so I sent a proposal and if it wasn't accepted I was enacting the servicemember civil relief act and she would not have been able to do anything legally for the next 9 months including moving in with her internet BF. Guess that was motivation to finally settle.
Stand your ground and fight for what you know is right; but also know that the juice isn't always worth the squeeze. It is such a tremendous relief to be done with it all; although that can be a mirage that gets one to settle for less and then be upset in the future. Do what is best for you and the kids. I don't feel like I got a raw deal...mostly because I have my life fully in my own hands now...not waiting for the next accusation of abuse or mal-treatment or whatever story she made up that day. In the end for her it was about getting the most child support and nothing else. It is quite sad that in my situation it is just about money and not about doing what is best for the kids...on her front anyway.
I hope for your sake it doesn't drag on for another year plus. That is just so stressful...even if you are living a good life and happy...it is stressful to have all of those unknowns hanging out there. Never knowing when you'll be ambushed again. It makes life difficult for sure.
Hang in there friend. You've made tremendous progress throughout your time on this board and whatever happens I suspect you'll be just fine in life.
LB - thanks so much for posting.
You perfectly described my life. She has ramped up the false accusations to an alarming degree. I have chosen only to exchange our kids in a public place. When people make these allegations it is “guilty until proven innocent” to a degree. It is a daily nightmare but I’ve learned to live with it. One of my friends went through this about 5 years ago and said he still worries she may file false allegations again.
I am about to hopefully have some good news regarding time with my kids. After that, I still have a lot of financial issues to deal with (her refusal to work, burying herself in the marital home) and will have to decide if the juice is worth the squeeze. I’ve probably got 6 more months on that front.
About 4 months ago I made a settlement offer which would have wrapped everything up at almost no cost. I gave way on several items (not kids). She responded with a move away threat. Crazy. All this money going to lawyers instead of our kids.
A couple weeks ago in a mediation session she made new allegations. Flat out made up things. It is scary. I can’t wait to be out of this. I’m grateful that my lawyer mapped this out well.
Yes I understand completely where you are at...even without specifics. I lived under a rock for 18 months in fear of her bringing more allegations to the table. Eventually I figured out that calling her bluff needed to happen...she didn't follow through with the threats and allegations...because she had no proof.
She was simply doing it to try to prevent me from getting any extra time with the kids...because then she gets less child support. What she refuses to acknowledge is I would pay her the same support even if I got the kids 50% of the time...because its not about money to me. But that is all she can see.
Now that it is finalized...I haven't heard from her in weeks. Its been refreshing to not have to defend myself from "you were 2 minutes late getting the kids; if you don't want to spend time with them just let me know", "S12 has a scratch on his leg; did you take him to the hospital? If not explain your actions.", and other similar things intended to file in court to show I'm a bad parent that doesn't care to see his kids. As soon as she got her money...the fight stopped.
Hopefully you're able to close out your case soon...the stress levels go way down when you do. That was my experience anyway.
We went back and forth on settlement offers for months. I got so sick of hearing what she was 'entitled' to because she was the 'victim' and how the judge would side with her if I didn't do what she wanted. She is a very good manipulator and only recently have I been able to see through her manipulation attempts.
I did not try mediation although that was the next step in trying to get a settlement.
Best thing I can advise...stop living in fear...its a terrible place to be as you've shown above. Stop living in fear of what she *might* do, stop living in fear of debt or housing in the future, stop living in fear of being single, stop worrying that friends or family might think negatively of you, continue taking the high road, and do what you know is right. Do what you've got to do. Stay strong!!
LB ~ I relate in so many ways. The scratch story is almost word for word what I have faced over and over and over again. One day when things are more wrapped up I will post some of the more interesting stories here... there are some good ones. (One of my favorites: when she asked, in mediation, for a pedicure in return for "maintaining the marital home" -- which I was paying the full mortgage for).
There are a couple different factors in my situation that led me down the legal path. I did try mediation for a few months, but it went absolutely nowhere. I think money is a huge motivating factor, but there are other things at play. One of her family members went through a D where the X did make violent threats. My STBXW wants to move away. She wants to keep the marital home. She wants final say and control over anything related to the children.
As a friend of mine who went through this always tells me, "It's about her narrative." As long as she plays the victim, I will be the monster and subject to false allegations. At least through the legal process I will get some protection soon.
People have told me to "just ignore her" but the fact is... when you are accused of abuse, there is a presumption of guilt. You have to defend yourself and explain, no matter how false or exaggerated or outlandish the accusations. It has happened in front of 5 different mandatory reporters by now. There is a perpetual fear of losing your children. It is NOT a fun process, and it isn't just a "shrug it off" kind of thing. As soon as these people hear an accusation, you are on the hot seat and you have to explain yourself, no matter how outrageous or minimal the accusation.
I stopped living in fear about 4 months ago when I stepped up and confronted the issue. Mediation didn't work. I knew the legal process would be painful and expensive, but I am so happy I went this way.
I'm really happy for you to be out of the atmosphere of fear. I'll be there soon, and I already feel much lighter on my feet.
I hear you loud and clear on feeling the need to defend yourself. I felt like had to do the same for almost 19 months. Its definitely tough on a day to day and it sounds like you're doing a good job of handling it. Just know that it likely won't stop until those final papers are signed. I probably spent $50k on attorneys, psychiatrists, alcohol counselors...all to prove that I didn't have the problems I was accused of. After those initial accusations then it was always something new...but in the end it was all about money. I ONLY did what the judge/court/my attorney recommended though. If the judge didn't think I needed to do anything then I didn't do anything. There were plenty of accusations that were clearly unfounded and he just let them go without any required action from me. My attorney also recommended to me when to act and when to just let it go. It took me a while to let go of my need to respond to everything for fear of losing the kids.
My XW also had a friend in her ear that had a violent ex...like pulling trees out of the yard with his truck at 2am and all sorts of things. Unfortunately she believed that I was capable of acting like that...no matter the proof otherwise.
Mine didn't want me to have any decision making capability for the kids at all...healthcare, school, legal, or anything else. But because I went through the pains of getting all those appointments done and had all the paperwork...in the end she knew she didn't have a leg to stand on and she relented. We have joint decision making on everything and if we disagree then it gets settled via the legal process and mediation.
I feel for you brother...this is a tough thing to go through for anyone. I hope you're able to get some resolution and finality...in the meantime keep controlling what you can...your actions, reactions, and emotions. I say that multiple times a day even now that I am done with all of that.
I read somewhere that 95% of all cases settle without going to court. I thought for sure i was going to be one of the 5% but we wound up settling in the end. I hope you can achieve a deal you're happy with and be able to move forward from this soon. In the meantime be the best dad you can be and be the best man you can be...its all you can do.
Thanks LB. I am hopeful for a good legal outcome.
My W keeps insisting we go to coparenting counseling, even though at every turn in front of a mediator or mandatory reporter she lobs as many accusations at me as possible. I badly want to support our children -- I also have zero trust in my W right now. I believe coparenting counseling will be a fiasco until her actions and behaviors change.
It is also funny how her lawyers paint me as an awful person. As an example, because I believe she should start going back to work as she is fully capable (she used to make a 6-figure salary with ease), they paint me as some financially controlling monster who has no empathy for her difficult circumstances. I'm paying almost 5 figures in monthly support in the meantime and maxing out credit cards just to survive, but I am controlling... These things used to bother me, especially as someone who cared so much that other people thought I was a good person. Now I see through the game -- it is just how family law goes. I'm going to be free of this nightmare eventually and won't be looking back.
It used to bother me if people disapproved of me. I used to have anxiety about confrontation. I used to feel things were entirely my fault even if I knew intellectually that was not true. This whole process feels like exposure therapy to help me confront my issues.
I can tell things will get resolved legally in the next several months, and I should relax a little bit and let things run their course.
Yikes... I've been there with the false allegations. The important thing to remember is that it will all come out in the wash. I get the "guilty until proven innocent" thing, because that's just the way society is sometimes. But I assure you, everyone in your life that matters will know the truth in the end. She is trying to get a rise out of you. It would be great for her if you flew off the handle and furiously denied the accusations. I learned to just kind of chuckle, roll my eyes, and sarcastically say "OK" with a smile with each new accusation. Eventually people see who the crazy one really is...
Feelings hitting me hard the last 24 hours. Thankfully I have IC later today.
I have to keep this purposefully vague.
Allegations, false or not, are so powerful in family law. I knew my STBXW would never back down, and would hold them over my head (somehow she claims this was not her intent).
In the end, I have to swallow a deal. I get the time with my kids that was recommended by all evaluators, but I have to wait a half a year. It is completely arbitrary.
I should be thrilled honestly. The allegations are buried. That part of my life will be over. No more living in fear. Even though STBXW has not had to accept any responsibility for alienating the children, harassing me, or anything else from the last 14 months... I should be happy.
Now I have to face the financial part of this D and I fully accept STBXW to make this part just as difficult. And in the end I don't expect anything to be "fair" based on how these things go.
I know how my emotions work. The heaviness of the above is leaking into how I view everything else. I'm tired of COVID. I'm tired of being home alone every day. I'm tired of feeling like I'm living in a temporary house. I'm tired of the stress of my situation affecting my job performance. I'm tired of the burden of it all... paying for everything while I'm dragged through the mud by slimy lawyers, by STBXW - her subtle implications to my kids' school, or therapist... I'm absolutely exhausted by this process. I know why people back down. I didn't back down, and I never would have. But I am so emotionally spent. I am running on empty.
I KNOW this is histrionic and that once I process what just happened that the brightness will return and things won't feel so heavy. For today, it's rough seas.
Hey Un,
So sorry you are struggling man. As you said, brighter days are ahead, it just [censored] waiting for them.
I have no advice other than to allow yourself the time to process things. I remember it well when I was going through this with my ex-wife (not my most recent ex). Everything felt so unsettled and I really burnt myself out worrying all the time. And that feeling followed me like a dark cloud.
On a positive note - looking back, I'm grateful for those times when I couldn't see the light. Those were the times that really helped me grow the most as a person. It was during those times I finally learned that I could handle life's curve-balls, that while it wasn't what I wanted, I was going to be ok and be stronger as a result.
I'm really looking forward to seeing your big comeback, stronger and wiser than ever.
Thanks T. I think you are right, it's normal to have some heavy feelings right now, I should just let it sit for a bit.
Hey U -
I'm sorry you're struggling, man. I know this isn't easy on you.
Give yourself a pat on the back. You got through a major upheaval and you're still standing. I know there are more to come, but thats for later, not right now.
Don't think too far into the future. Stay present. There will be time for the rest later.
I'm looking at Covid as a time to pause, a time to reflect, a time to slow down and really think about what direction I want to go. If you look at the positive aspects of it, we all have nothing but time to think and plan and set goals.
I know it doesn't feel like it now, but the feeling will pass trust me
LB55 I think once told me this - "the reason you are so exhausted is from fighting every little thing." Something that really opened my eyes.
Pick your battles. Let the small [censored] go.
Take care, buddy - stay strong
IW ~ Thanks for checking in.
LB55 I think once told me this - "the reason you are so exhausted is from fighting every little thing." Something that really opened my eyes.
Pick your battles. Let the small [censored] go.
I think what's going on with me is I just "won" the one fight that mattered most to me. I won the freedom to just be a dad who loves his kids.
And rather than feeling overjoyed and elated I am utterly exhausted and spent. I just want to sleep. This has taken a massive emotional toll.
Hey U,
Part of it is that it was a fight that never needed to happen. That had to make it that much more difficult and understandably taxing mentally, emotionally and physically. I'm sorry that the win still means some time without the kids for the time being. That is lose/lose for everyone including the person who convinced herself that you're toxic.
I hope you can get some reprieve. Time to collect yourself and relish in some peace.
Your battle encourages me and perhaps others to keep pushing along. Take care U.
Hi U,
Don't feel like you should be feeling one way or another-- you deserve to be exhausted. I hope you can get some rest and recharge and enjoy the time you get with your kids now without anxiety.
Thanks Core, may ~
I can't really explain it. I'm confused. I haven't been confused about my emotions in awhile.
Detaching from my XW and moving on was the easy part.
I've been so buttoned up for over a year. I tried... so... hard... to do this every other way. Six months of counseling, having accusations hurled at me, sitting there and trying to be understanding and build trust and ease into a peaceful co-parenting arrangement to save us from this. Mediation. Settlement offers. Going to parenting classes. Reading books. Feeling immediate panic when one of my kids fell off their bike. Or if they started misbehaving or fighting. Worried about the people I spent time with. Worried about the TV shows I let them watch, the music they listened to. Documenting every day I had with them. Counseling. Hour after hour talking to some close friends. Lawyer costs. Strategizing. Having to pay attention to every single communication with my XW, every interaction, every choice I made.
I needed to do it all. I truly believe that.
If I had to guess I'm feeling the release of all this tension and it's flooding out unpredictably at the moment.
Many big sports starts go into depression when they have won all there is to win.
You've just won the biggest battle of your life.
My guess here U, is that biologically you had a level of stress and cortisol flowing through you for so long that your body adapted to it and it became normal. I wouldn't be surprised if your body randomly kicks out a little or you subconsciously look for a stressor to get back to baseline. It'll take time for the body to adjust. I've found myself doing this with anxiety over the years. I realize it on peaceful days when I tell myself, "I should be worried about x". No the F, I shouldnt, its just the body used to its new homeostasis.
I think Mumin may be on to something as well. You worked darned hard at what you had to do. You were driven, focused and now that battles over. Warriors long to go back to battle. Prisoners miss jail. Performers miss the rush of the stage. Your body may be missing the exhausting nature of the last few months.
Hey U -
You are right to feel that way. Remember when we discussed how exhausted both of us were feeling a while ago? I think this is all part of that same process.
So much of this is mental. I believe the exhaustion is also mental - i feel it almost every day.
The challenge is to figure out how to calm your brain down. I cannot really help you there because I am still figuring out how to do this too.
But I can relate to what you're feeling.
This isn't easy but you're doing great. Take it easy on yourself, man.
Hi Mumin, Core, IW ~
Thanks for the support.
I definitely need a few days to let things settle. My mind is spinning quite a bit which is causing me to use a lot of cognitive distortions. Intellectually I can see this process happening in real-time, I recognize what is going on, yet I feel powerless to stop it.
I definitely need a few days to let things settle. My mind is spinning quite a bit which is causing me to use a lot of cognitive distortions.
Yes - good idea. Whenever I feel this way, I use the "do nothing" approach - if I can help it. Sort of like letting the mind return to an equal baseline.
Intellectually I can see this process happening in real-time, I recognize what is going on, yet I feel powerless to stop it.
The fact that you can step out of yourself enough to see it is a great sign. I am here too - sometimes I let my mind have the satisfaction of spinning a bit. Its a challenging habit to break - to stop completely. inevitably the spinning happens. But when I've had enough i say "stop - this is going nowhere" and I shut it down.
Doesn't work 100 percent of the time but its working more than it did. That might help you too.
Journal ~
X reached out to me yesterday about some concerns about one of our kids with remote school.
I don't know how to co-parent with this person.
Her accusations over the last year, up to just 2 weeks ago, linger. I have zero trust. Absolutely zero.
It goes beyond the accusations. The way she twists things. For example, several months ago, she was suggesting I should not have weekdays with the kids because I couldn't pick them up at school every time, and I pointed out that the kids mentioned other parents were driving them home on her days, so I didn't see why if I needed help to pick them up sometimes it was a reason to limit my time. My X's reaction to this? She emailed one of the parents, said I have concerns and about who was picking up my kids and could she please respond so that I no longer had concerns.
I never asked her to contact this parent. It is the parent of one of my kid's friends. And now this person has the impression I am some insistent crazy father.
There's all kinds of subtle manipulative things like this that have happened. I haven't posted most of them. It's as if my X doesn't hear the words I say, she just assumes I am saying something else. Either that or she is just manipulative and petty. I don't know and the effect is the same.
Regarding her school concern, my XW always has had a way of dealing with people in this way. It's not unique to our D or me specifically. When she wants something, she will act as if she is seeking dialogue, when in fact she is looking to convince others that she has the right view point. I've seen her do this with family and friends before. I have no doubt in this situation she has some idea about what to do (homeschool? change schools?) and is only reaching out to me because she has to.
I don't know if she's a master manipulator. She is certainly controlling. I think it's just her way of interacting with the world. I do not look forward to having to interact with her.
I am speaking in absolutes, and I don't like to do that anymore. But it's how I feel.
Just to add some color, she also insisted recently that I reimburse her for a $1 bank transfer fee immediately. I am paying high 4 figures in support yet a $1 fee is worth more discord I guess...
I've mentioned before I have a strained relationship my parents. I have a couple good friends where I live now, although my X has driven a bit of a wedge with mutual friends. It is a lonely feeling to be a single dad with a hostile co-parent.
I'm just super super frustrated. I can tolerate it and it's not going to show up in how I interact with her. We have to start co-parenting counseling soon per court order and I have zero faith that X is going to have any interest in doing anything other than what she thinks is best.
Man that sounds real rough U! She really sounds infuriating!!
One of my colleagues with an XW gave me a pretty good mental principle.
"50% of their time has to be enough. Everything else is just business"
It sounds like you are pretty well routed and can take it, but you really don't have to take any of it.
You don't HAVE to do a single thing to her liking and long term you don't HAVE to even communicate with her.
I too want to co-parent but realizing I don't even have to consider W is a freeing thought.
I hope the co-parenting counseling goes well. With all that manipulation I really understand you don't want anything to do with her.
You can always imagine her taking a dump while sitting there.
Might lighten things up.
It goes beyond the accusations. The way she twists things. For example, several months ago, she was suggesting I should not have weekdays with the kids because I couldn't pick them up at school every time, and I pointed out that the kids mentioned other parents were driving them home on her days, so I didn't see why if I needed help to pick them up sometimes it was a reason to limit my time.
It's great you are over letting her make parenting decisions. You both start with equal rights, and I think you've for awhile been on-track that you do what you think is best during your parenting time and she will do so with hers. No need to justify anything to the other. There are a limited number of things you must coordinate on, such as school choices and week+ projects/homework. Yes, there will be headaches. As she gets used to you setting boundaries, there will hopefully be less conflicts. She will learn your "No" means "no" and there's little point to keep pestering you once you've made a considered parenting decision.
Oh, U, this sounds so frustrating. Frustrating maybe isn't even the right word. Bone-deep soul-wrenching gut-churning frustration. I don't think anyone would know how to co-parent with this person.
Something struck me here:
For example, several months ago, she was suggesting I should not have weekdays with the kids because I couldn't pick them up at school every time, and I pointed out that the kids mentioned other parents were driving them home on her days, so I didn't see why if I needed help to pick them up sometimes it was a reason to limit my time. My X's reaction to this? She emailed one of the parents, said I have concerns and about who was picking up my kids and could she please respond so that I no longer had concerns.
Maybe you're already doing this, but it seems to me like the only way to avoid this kind of BS is to simply not engage. So when she says some ridiculous like you can't have weekdays because you can't pick them up at school every time, just acknowledge you heard her but restate what you want or think is right. There is no arguing with her, and everything you say is fuel to her. In my state on the child custody paperwork, you do have to agree who can drive your children-- at least you can both say you don't care, you can name people you both are comfortable with, or you need to get it OKed by the other parent. I'm not sure I totally get how she is able to have other people drive them around but you aren't, and if that won't be possible in the final paperwork then why bother engaging?
When you talk to her about the distance learning issue, remember you don't have to agree to anything in the moment, or even really respond. Maybe it is best to listen, thank her, tell her you'll think about it (in some nice non-confrontational way, wow, this is big, I'm glad you shared this with me, I need to think about it and will get back to you asap) and then disengage to give you some time to digest and decide.
Mumin, CW, may ~ Thanks for the feedback. It echoes what I learned in a co-parenting class I took in the winter.
I've been told it typically takes *minimum* 12-18 months post-finalization before things settle down in these high-conflict situations. I'm not holding my breath. I suspect it will be longer.
Mostly I'm frustrated with the impact on my kids. I didn't want the D for them either, but it has had a silver lining. My relationship with the kids is stronger than before. Even had we R'd, my X always had an element of needing to control how we parent, what the kids do, etc. I'm hopeful about how they will adjust. All I can do is try to be a good father for them and minimize their anxiety by keeping the discord away from them. I can't control how they turn out.
It's hard to tell if things will settle down eventually and become more amicable. I'm full of doubt. She was never one to compromise, negotiate, and work through difficult issues. I was a NG and I liked to please her, so I probably reinforced this behavior to some degree.
It's been about a month since my last update.
The legal process is slow and exhausting and expensive. I can't wait for things to work their way through but it's going to take several more months minimum given my X's recalcitrance. She's refused to work at all even though she has a higher education than I do, for instance. Throw reason out the window -- let's pay lawyers a bunch of money. Frustrating...
I've noticed in the last month or so, I will periodically have 2-3 days of peace -- no lawyer interaction, no bullying/harassing e-mails from my X on one thing or another (my favorite this month -- insisting I reimburse her for a $1 bank transaction fee). The peace feels incredible. But then I get another e-mail, or look at my credit card bill, or she's pestering me about something with the kids (always a criticism of something minor). I've learned to deal with it and go about my day, but I can't wait to get to a more stable situation. I know the coparenting will be an issue to deal with for the long-term.
My kids seem to be doing great and I'm proud of keeping them out of the conflict the best I can. They still have remote school in my state and the days I have them are crazy -- working full-time while keeping the older two focused on work and the youngest happy with activities. I'm exhausted at the end of those days but they are very rewarding too.
Stay safe everyone and keep focusing on what you can control.
She's refused to work at all even though she has a higher education than I do, for instance. Throw reason out the window -- let's pay lawyers a bunch of money. Frustrating...
Oof. One of my ex-girlfriend's played that game with their ex-husband. She argued it was better for her child if she stayed home and watched him than get a babysitter. The ex filed a motion with the court, and before her son turned 1, she was forced to return to work or have her child support docked as if she had. (I secretly was rooting for the ex-husband on this.) Hang in there. The court's generally on your side on this.
CW ~ The courts are clear about this in my state as well. It just costs a lot of money and time and energy to get there. Sigh...
My ex boyfriend had an ex wife much like yours in terms of the kids. The only way he was able to protect himself was having ONLY communication through my family wizard . They also this can be viewed by a parent coordinator and everything is permissible to court . So the manipulations are minimal.
I know this isn’t a preferable way to communicate, but it might be the only way.
Ginger ~ Sounds like his X and my X would get along. We already use the family wizard app per court order. Exchanges happen at public neutral locations (again, per my insistence). These are both at my insistence.
At least the lawyers kids get their tuition covered. In seriousness, what your W is doing by dragging this out doesn't help, you, the kids or herself. That energy would be much more useful elsewhere. I'm sorry to hear your battle continues and that such extremes are required.
At least the lawyers kids get their tuition covered. In seriousness, what your W is doing by dragging this out doesn't help, you, the kids or herself. That energy would be much more useful elsewhere. I'm sorry to hear your battle continues and that such extremes are required.
Out of his control
U, hang in there. Focus on what you can control. This to shall pass.
Although I agree my W may be better off directing her energy elsewhere, that is her problem and not mine and I don't spend much time thinking about it.
Unchien, you have a healthy mindset going.
Three things that helped me immensely the last couple years:
1. Mind-reading: Waste of effort. It's so easy to look at somebody's actions or words and assume one knows what the other person is thinking. This is especially true in troubled relationships.
2. Narratives: Everybody journeys through life telling themselves little stories to help make sense of their reality. People cling to their narratives like barnacles on a boat. Some people in crisis (such as the deterioration of a MR), can look inwards, take responsibility for their role in the conflict in their lives, and come out stronger. Change is possible, but not easy, and the vast majority of people don't make lasting changes because it requires rewiring how you think, act, behave. It requires accepting responsibility and editing the narrative. That is HARD. It is an act of ego destruction. And similar to mind-reading, it is wasted effort to try to convince somebody else that their narrative is "wrong".
3. Villain / Victim: False narratives. It's easy to feel like a victim, or to assign my X as the villain, or both. Deciding to be the victim is deciding to be powerless and to hand over agency of my life to some mysterious obscure outside forces. Similar, deciding my X is a villain is letting go of my agency over my life. "Poor me, look at what this evil person is doing to me, destroying my life." Whatever she is doing is what she feels is best for her life.
I don't understand why my X does the things she does. I know it makes sense to her. I don't worry about it, and I deal with it as it comes. I assume it's her way of dealing with life. I feel so much stronger b/c I don't worry what might happen anymore. I don't care about her version of reality. Yes, a lot has been destroyed. I can't control that. At times I am frustrated and wish we could all just move on. But I accept it is what it is, for now.
I also check myself regularly -- this is not about trying to be the "bigger" person. I'm not trying to be any better than my X. I'm just worried about what I can control.
Hi Unchien,
Thanks for the words of wisdom. Good timing, and I will take them to heart today.
In a little bit of a funk this weekend ~
My X has an OM now. Technically I've been told he's "a good friend" but I'm not gullible. The fact she is dating doesn't bother me and I'm not surprised by it.
But OM spends a ton of time with my kids. I've dated a little bit, but I would never introduce someone to my kids right now, not while we are still in the middle of sorting out our D.
I wouldn't even know about OM except my littlest always brings him up, even though I never ask. My older two have clearly been instructed not to mention OM, and will change the subject if my youngest mentions his name. It's really weird. I don't pry, I just say "Oh OK" and move on.
I know this is all ridiculous and I should let it go. I can't control it. But it nags at me. I didn't get a picture of my kids trick or treating while OM and X took them out. It hurts to feel replaced as a dad, not as a husband. Even though I know they only have one dad.
There is one other aspect that really frustrates me about my sitch. My X is controlling and will distort facts to justify what she does. She did this when we were happily married, I just wasn't at the other end of it at the time.
She has tried in many subtle ways to minimize my role with our kids. I really went through h3ll the last 18 months dealing with her threats of withholding the children. I made it out intact, but I know she will continue operating this way. The legal process will end eventually and I'll be left having to deal with her manipulations forever.
Probably some of this has to do with my insecurity about being a good father and my general lack of a support network where I live. Maybe this is something I will start discussing in IC.
Thanks for reading.
U,
Sorry to hear. I really thought yours was one of the very few with no OM. The only advice I have is this too shall pass. Now she’s his problem. Your kids know who their dad is and most OMs do not want to be a father.
Stay strong U.
In a little bit of a funk this weekend ~
My X has an OM now. Technically I've been told he's "a good friend" but I'm not gullible. The fact she is dating doesn't bother me and I'm not surprised by it.
But OM spends a ton of time with my kids. I've dated a little bit, but I would never introduce someone to my kids right now, not while we are still in the middle of sorting out our D.
I wouldn't even know about OM except my littlest always brings him up, even though I never ask. My older two have clearly been instructed not to mention OM, and will change the subject if my youngest mentions his name. It's really weird. I don't pry, I just say "Oh OK" and move on.
I know this is all ridiculous and I should let it go. I can't control it. But it nags at me. I didn't get a picture of my kids trick or treating while OM and X took them out. It hurts to feel replaced as a dad, not as a husband. Even though I know they only have one dad.
There is one other aspect that really frustrates me about my sitch. My X is controlling and will distort facts to justify what she does. She did this when we were happily married, I just wasn't at the other end of it at the time.
She has tried in many subtle ways to minimize my role with our kids. I really went through h3ll the last 18 months dealing with her threats of withholding the children. I made it out intact, but I know she will continue operating this way. The legal process will end eventually and I'll be left having to deal with her manipulations forever.
Probably some of this has to do with my insecurity about being a good father and my general lack of a support network where I live. Maybe this is something I will start discussing in IC.
Thanks for reading.
This is why we say there is always an OP. Whether it is a PA, an EA, or a fantasy of a future OP. Very few WASs walkaway to be alone forever. I know one, but it is by far the vast minority of witches.
I agree with LH. Most men use the kids to get to the woman. He has no interest in being your kids father no matter how he's behaving at the moment.
LH, Steve ~
Thanks for the words of encouragement.
To be clear, OM came into the picture many months after the D decision. I know this for a fact. People move on and I accept that -- like I said, I've dated a little bit as well.
My W is still in the marital home and by external appearances would seem very well off. OM does odd jobs and is D'ed with no kids. 2+2 and it's obvious what's going on. That's for those two to work out. But the whole "playing family" bit without acknowledging it is happening is really frustrating. It's not something I would do at this point to my kids.
Because we are still working through negotiating the legal issues, my W and I almost barely communicate. Just in the past month alone she has done several crazy things -- alleging I underpaid support (not true), threatening to withhold the kids one weekend, delaying signing documents. She has very aggressive (and borderline unethical) representation. I have evidence that she has badmouthed me to other parents at the school my kids attend. It goes on and on and I've learned to deal with it. What frustrates me is the impact it has on our kids. It's so pointless and unnecessary.
One thing I am very proud of is that I have kept my kids out of it as best as I can. When my kids mention OM I don't ask further questions. I leave them out of it.
I really loved your three things list, U. They all resonated with me deeply and I thank you for sharing.
Three things that helped me immensely the last couple years:
1. Mind-reading: Waste of effort. It's so easy to look at somebody's actions or words and assume one knows what the other person is thinking. This is especially true in troubled relationships.
2. Narratives: Everybody journeys through life telling themselves little stories to help make sense of their reality. People cling to their narratives like barnacles on a boat. Some people in crisis (such as the deterioration of a MR), can look inwards, take responsibility for their role in the conflict in their lives, and come out stronger. Change is possible, but not easy, and the vast majority of people don't make lasting changes because it requires rewiring how you think, act, behave. It requires accepting responsibility and editing the narrative. That is HARD. It is an act of ego destruction. And similar to mind-reading, it is wasted effort to try to convince somebody else that their narrative is "wrong".
3. Villain / Victim: False narratives. It's easy to feel like a victim, or to assign my X as the villain, or both. Deciding to be the victim is deciding to be powerless and to hand over agency of my life to some mysterious obscure outside forces. Similar, deciding my X is a villain is letting go of my agency over my life. "Poor me, look at what this evil person is doing to me, destroying my life." Whatever she is doing is what she feels is best for her life.
This also struck me in a profound way. Another act towards ego deconstruction. Powerful.
I also check myself regularly -- this is not about trying to be the "bigger" person. I'm not trying to be any better than my X. I'm just worried about what I can control.
Hi U -
Sorry to hear that you're struggling. None of this is easy - so don't beat yourself up too much if you need to take a breather.
Like the others said - there's nothing you can do to change what your X does. You can only control your own actions. To me it sounds like you're doing a great job of that, especially with your kids.
I know it's difficult but keep working at detachment. Got any projects or ventures coming up? Things that will benefit you and your future?
Hang in there man. You're a great dad. You know the truth - that's all that matters. Keep being the light.
Take care - stay strong
IW ~ I've taken on learning a new language. Mostly for fun, but maybe with the idea of traveling once this pandemic is over. And I've been exercising like crazy, although with no particular goal in mind.
Hi U...
I just wanted to reinforce with you that you're a truly incredible father. Your children are very, very lucky to have you. They know it in their bones. They may test it; they may feel conflicted given the D and your wife's behavior... but they know it as deeply as they know anything.
Hugs for having to miss Halloween. OF course you are not being replaced by OM. You're their dad whether you are allowed to trick or treat with them or not. And next year will be waaaaay better than thiis year!! However, I can imagine how it must feel, and just wanted to send you some empathy vibes on that one.
On the villian/victim/hero triangle-- I've spent some decent time applying this in a work perspective, and it has always made sense to me (step outside the triangle! Be the coach, not the hero!). But my IC asked me a couple of weeks ago if if I saw this dynamic in my R with my H (and AP)... gosh, it was so much harder to apply it in a personal situation. I definitely saw how my H and I were struggling with the villian- victim narrative, but it felt so much more difficult to assign the hero role, and figure out how AP fit into the whole picture. Anyway, just a note that this resonates with me, and wondering if your wife has the hero figure in her narrative, somehow.
Sending good vibes to you, U.
Thanks may!
My sitch is kind of in L h3ll. I'm not going to post about all the details. I am trying to think strategically how to extricate myself from this at minimum cost (financially and emotionally) but, just like an eroding MR, I can't control other people. I obviously can provide instructions to my L. I'm finding my stress level is fairly high and I need to double down on self-care a a bit.
I wish I could find more ways to build up a support network during the pandemic. That is what I struggle with most.
In a little bit of a funk this weekend ~
My X has an OM now. Technically I've been told he's "a good friend" but I'm not gullible. The fact she is dating doesn't bother me and I'm not surprised by it.
But OM spends a ton of time with my kids. I've dated a little bit, but I would never introduce someone to my kids right now, not while we are still in the middle of sorting out our D.
I wouldn't even know about OM except my littlest always brings him up, even though I never ask. My older two have clearly been instructed not to mention OM, and will change the subject if my youngest mentions his name. It's really weird. I don't pry, I just say "Oh OK" and move on.
I know this is all ridiculous and I should let it go. I can't control it. But it nags at me. I didn't get a picture of my kids trick or treating while OM and X took them out. It hurts to feel replaced as a dad, not as a husband. Even though I know they only have one dad.
There is one other aspect that really frustrates me about my sitch. My X is controlling and will distort facts to justify what she does. She did this when we were happily married, I just wasn't at the other end of it at the time.
She has tried in many subtle ways to minimize my role with our kids. I really went through h3ll the last 18 months dealing with her threats of withholding the children. I made it out intact, but I know she will continue operating this way. The legal process will end eventually and I'll be left having to deal with her manipulations forever.
Probably some of this has to do with my insecurity about being a good father and my general lack of a support network where I live. Maybe this is something I will start discussing in IC.
Thanks for reading.
Hey U
I've been gone a while doing my military stuff; on here getting caught up. It is so tough to keep slogging through this crap; sorry you are still in the muck. This post man...it sounds just so similar to mine.
Everything from the kids telling each other "Shhh...mom says we cant tell dad about that" when one of them slips up to the awkwardness they have in even being able mention OM name to feeling left out of their lives as a parent.
It hurts bad to not get any info on anything they do, i hear you loud and clear there. I haven't gotten a single picture of my kids from WW in over 2 years now. Not one. No holidays, no birthdays, no weekend trips; nothing. It is like the live in a desert and have no communication or photography ability. I take as many as i can when they are with me; its all i can do. I post them all over the house and the kids take notice. They love looking at them..."mom doesn't put up pictures of us" they'll tell me. So i make it a priority to keep printing new ones and keep some old ones to remember things we have done.
Hang in there; support networks are tough without a covid...theyre next to impossible to establish with it. I am here and i trust that most everyone else on this site is here for you. I for one am thankful for the support here. The light at the end of the tunnel is there...it just isn't as soon as we'd like sometimes.
Cheers,
LB
I wish I could find more ways to build up a support network during the pandemic. That is what I struggle with most.
Sorry to hear you're finding things tough U. The language learning sounds great though, what are you learning?
Have you got any fun Christmas plans with your kids, U?
Hi LB, OB, scout ~ thanks for checking in!
LB ~ I had the same idea about pictures when I moved into my place. I have a wall mounted frame with clips that holds 30 or so photos that I update every now and then. The kids love looking at them.
The slog is tough but now that I have a court-ordered schedule with the kids I am much more at peace. More productive at work. Not wasting time thinking about what may or may not happen.
My X reaches out every few days with a random thing about the kids. There is always some distortion of the facts or the past. At the same time she claims to want to work together and I find it incredible she can believe in such contradictory facts. Anyways... the days that are quiet and drama-free are enjoyable and I seem to get more and more of those lately which is fantastic.
OB ~ I'm trying to learn Spanish, using a combo of apps, podcasts and watching some Netflix with subtitles. I have a fluent friend so I get to practice from time to time when we chat. I'm really enjoying it so far, hoping one day to make use of it traveling somewhere.
scout ~ Not sure about plans. I'd like to take the kids to the snow before Christmas but the COVID guidelines are very strict where I live at the moment and I am very risk averse with exposure. I took them last winter and they loved it. For Christmas, I'm throwing some ideas around in my head but trying not to over-stress. My XW used to go way overboard with the holidays and that is definitely not my style. Next weekend we will be decorating the house and putting the tree up which will be a great start! I'm trying to balance my desire to create a special experience with my desire to enjoy the time too.
My youngest (D5) had a little meltdown before bedtime tonight.
As a brief recap, we all moved here (about half-day drive) about 3 years ago, away from where my STBXW's parents live and many of her friends. It was a hard but mutual decision. My W wanted a huge house in the best location, and I just could not find work to support that lifestyle. I felt immense pressure, and also did not have great job prospects in that town. My W also had put a 1-year ticking deadline on making the decision. I had even proposed we punt and wait another year given the intense pressure of an arbitrary deadline. But she wouldn't have it. So I found a great job in the place we originally met many years ago, one that would support the lifestyle my W wanted, and we agreed to move.
Somehow my W has a narrative that this move was entirely about my happiness. In fact, I would have stayed in our old town if she would have accepted living in a more reasonably affordable area.
My W was obviously unhappy with the move, would not admit it, and blamed me. At the time, I was trying so hard to make my W happy, and obviously failing. (As in, placing way too much pressure on her putting a brave face on things). Recipe for MR disaster.
Anyways, back to D5...
She was upset about moving away from the place "that was best for her" (when she was 2). She said Mommy told her we all moved because Daddy wasn't happy.
It really upsets me that she is writing narratives for the kids. I don't involve them in our issues. I just said tonight that there are grown-up issues sometimes, but the important thing is that I love her very very much.
I wish I could "solve" this problem, but I can't. One of my friends went to family reunification therapy after a nasty custody battle and suggests it, but in his case that was court ordered. I think my only option is to have faith that my kids will grow up and see things clearly.
I wish I could say I accept this, too, is out of my control. But it cuts deep. I want to just move on and be dad to my kids, and my X seems determined to involve them in her version of events. This is a lifelong battle. I know others here who have followed me have gone through similar, feels like I am doomed to a never-ending drama.
Hey U, sorry to hear that you’re upset. Your post on emotions and control have really resonated with me, keep all that you’ve learnt in mind. I hope things get better for you and that you truly don’t have to deal with this forever.
My youngest (D5) had a little meltdown before bedtime tonight.
As a brief recap, we all moved here (about half-day drive) about 3 years ago, away from where my STBXW's parents live and many of her friends. It was a hard but mutual decision. My W wanted a huge house in the best location, and I just could not find work to support that lifestyle. I felt immense pressure, and also did not have great job prospects in that town. My W also had put a 1-year ticking deadline on making the decision. I had even proposed we punt and wait another year given the intense pressure of an arbitrary deadline. But she wouldn't have it. So I found a great job in the place we originally met many years ago, one that would support the lifestyle my W wanted, and we agreed to move.
Somehow my W has a narrative that this move was entirely about my happiness. In fact, I would have stayed in our old town if she would have accepted living in a more reasonably affordable area.
My W was obviously unhappy with the move, would not admit it, and blamed me. At the time, I was trying so hard to make my W happy, and obviously failing. (As in, placing way too much pressure on her putting a brave face on things). Recipe for MR disaster.
Anyways, back to D5...
She was upset about moving away from the place "that was best for her" (when she was 2). She said Mommy told her we all moved because Daddy wasn't happy.
It really upsets me that she is writing narratives for the kids. I don't involve them in our issues. I just said tonight that there are grown-up issues sometimes, but the important thing is that I love her very very much.
I wish I could "solve" this problem, but I can't. One of my friends went to family reunification therapy after a nasty custody battle and suggests it, but in his case that was court ordered. I think my only option is to have faith that my kids will grow up and see things clearly.
I wish I could say I accept this, too, is out of my control. But it cuts deep. I want to just move on and be dad to my kids, and my X seems determined to involve them in her version of events. This is a lifelong battle. I know others here who have followed me have gone through similar, feels like I am doomed to a never-ending drama.
The best way to counter this is to use the truth.......THROUGH actions not words. When you are consistent in your positive behavior towards your kids, and that behavior is counter to what your W's "narrative" is, your kids one day will look back and realize that what their mother said was incongruent with who you are as a person based on your actions. I believe that truth will always win out over lies.
Hi U -
Sorry to hear of your troubles.
You are absolutely right. There's nothing you can do to alter what narratives your X gives to your kids.
I think I mentioned my parents' D in your thread before. It was an ugly nasty thing in which each side fed their warped narratives to us kids in an attempt to justify their actions.
You are also right that the best thing you can do is stay above that drama and do what you can to remove yourself and your kids from that as much as possible. It's not the easy path. Not at all. But it is the way that will allow your kids to see in their own time that there is incongruity between what they are being told and what is reality.
Its so tough but you're doing the right thing.
Take care man
Update ~
In about a month I'll be stepping up to a full balanced schedule with the kids. I'm excited because I worked so hard to get to this point, but also a little nervous because it's a lot on my plate with remote schooling.
The holidays were great and things overall are good.
My D is dragging on and on, and will continue to do so for awhile. There are a lot of issues at hand that are still irritating, but they will get resolved eventually and the slow pace is outside my control. My X has been caught in a flat-out lie recently, and it points to what I would call her flexibility with the facts (when "the ends justify the means"). She used to do this in our MR from time to time, when dealing with other people. Never blatantly, and always in a way where she can keep spinning the narrative and defending herself. It's something I am extremely wary of, and probably always will be.
I have gotten a lot of flak (email, texts) from my X the past month about various issues. Lots of emotional bait, allegations that I don't have the kids' best interests in mind, etc. Always around something my X wants for herself. I mostly ignore or just respond firmly but professionally (like a business interaction).
I still pop in from time to time here, mostly in a passive role. I think I have a skewed perspective at this point and don't want to lead people in any direction.
Hi Unchien,
Hey! Been wondering about you. So glad to hear about the full schedule!! Remote learning has been manageable for me. I realized, to be able to work, I couldn't answer my kids' questions "on-demand". What worked for me was a brief check-in before school, posted "office hours", and a brief check-in after I finished work for the day. I also separated our spaces as much as I could, to limit interfering with each other, and setup "noise cancellation" features in the headsets and/or software we used. You'll do great!
I still pop in from time to time here, mostly in a passive role. I think I have a skewed perspective at this point and don't want to lead people in any direction.
Hey U good to hear from you. I think I know what you mean and struggle with it at times. Take care of yourself. It has been a long road for you.
Thanks CW, LH.
My X continues to be a challenge to deal with. I'm looking forward to the remaining aspects of our D to finalize -- unfortunately this is going to take several months because of some heel-dragging going on (plus the pandemic).
Some people have advised that things naturally thaw over the years as a rhythm of coparenting kicks in. I'm not sure that will happen in my case. I have seen her approach other difficult relationships in her life in a similar manner. She is at heart a very insecure person and uses control to deal with her insecurity. This comes across in a lot of ways. Badgering me about parenting constantly, saying negative and untrue or distorted things behind my back (I have many examples with evidence). Enlisting allies with subtle lies such as therapists, friends, family, etc. She has burned down the village so to speak.
I have zero trust. I know that's not a very DB thing to say, but my X has earned it. I may forgive in the future, but I will not trust without evidence it is safe to do so.
I've learned a ton about myself the past couple years. I know my challenge will be to manage the anxiety and stress when it peaks, as I tend to reach a tipping point where it can bring me down for a few days. I know the next couple months will be a high-anxiety period given some things that will naturally happen in our D process. I'm trying to focus on self-care, while also not being hard on myself if I have a tough day or two.
Badgering me about parenting constantly, saying negative and untrue or distorted things behind my back (I have many examples with evidence). Enlisting allies with subtle lies such as therapists, friends, family, etc. She has burned down the village so to speak.
I'm curious--why do you continue to have these conversations? Single parents I know with such adversarial partners.. cut them off. E.g., they don't do pick-ups or drop-offs anymore. I mean, it would seem whatever co-parenting benefits there are to be gained by communicating are lost via outweighed by what you mention.
Actually we don't speak at all. The communications are electronic (e-mail of court-mandated app). Mostly I ignore but some items I cannot as we are moving through this legal process.
Wow--many ex's back off when forced to use the court-mandated apps! She's really taking this far. Sorry to hear this. Stay strong, and thoughts and prayers your way.
CW ~ My X is a special one. I deliberately don't post the play-by-play here of our D, but some of the situations are completely absurd. I think there's lurkers here who have gone through similar, and maybe post once or twice.