I would like to let her know that she is absolutely hurting those who care about her the most, even though she rationalizes her behavior in order give herself "permission" to do what she's doing. Also, that the "small talk" and "checking in" texts she sends will cease. She really has a warped view of what our post-D relationship will be like, and I want her to know that.
There's a relevant quote about the fact that prisons are full of people who claim to be innocent. When humans do bad things, they typically will feel intensely guilty about it for a short period of time. Eventually the brain goes into self-preservation mode and starts inventing rationalizations so that the events in question were not that person's fault, or what they did wasn't so bad, or that everything will be okay despite what they did.
Once that "salvation narrative" starts to get created, they will hold onto it for dear life, seek out any shred of evidence that supports it, and ignore or reject anything at all that contradicts it. Its like an act of self-hypnosis.
So the WAS knows the impact on the children, but eventually self-hypnotize themselves into believing it’s all for the best and everyone will be okay, and it’s your fault anyway.
As for the small talk and checking in I would just slowly cut it off. If you were ok with it in the process then if you say something now she is going to see that as you were being manipulative and now are but hurt because she is following through with the divorce.
We haven't exchanged a terse word throughout the last 10 months. It's kind of bizarre. But, as you have pointed out LH, it most likely is that she's just a low conflict personality.
One of the biggest misconceptions on the board. Not all WWs want to spew and rage at the LBS. They just don't want to be married anymore. I read once that if you think getting married will make you happy and you are not happy then the natural tendency is to think you married the wrong person. Chasing things to make you happy is an illusion that many people have to experience and sometimes there are hard lessons to learn.
I am really sorry you are going through this WMLC but I can promise you that you will be ok.
I would like to let her know that she is absolutely hurting those who care about her the most, even though she rationalizes her behavior in order give herself "permission" to do what she's doing. Also, that the "small talk" and "checking in" texts she sends will cease. She really has a warped view of what our post-D relationship will be like, and I want her to know that.
There's a relevant quote about the fact that prisons are full of people who claim to be innocent. When humans do bad things, they typically will feel intensely guilty about it for a short period of time. Eventually the brain goes into self-preservation mode and starts inventing rationalizations so that the events in question were not that person's fault, or what they did wasn't so bad, or that everything will be okay despite what they did.
Once that "salvation narrative" starts to get created, they will hold onto it for dear life, seek out any shred of evidence that supports it, and ignore or reject anything at all that contradicts it. Its like an act of self-hypnosis.
So the WAS knows the impact on the children, but eventually self-hypnotize themselves into believing it’s all for the best and everyone will be okay, and it’s your fault anyway.
As for the small talk and checking in I would just slowly cut it off. If you were ok with it in the process then if you say something now she is going to see that as you were being manipulative and now are but hurt because she is following through with the divorce.
We haven't exchanged a terse word throughout the last 10 months. It's kind of bizarre. But, as you have pointed out LH, it most likely is that she's just a low conflict personality.
One of the biggest misconceptions on the board. Not all WWs want to spew and rage at the LBS. They just don't want to be married anymore. I read once that if you think getting married will make you happy and you are not happy then the natural tendency is to think you married the wrong person. Chasing things to make you happy is an illusion that many people have to experience and sometimes there are hard lessons to learn.
I am really sorry you are going through this WMLC but I can promise you that you will be ok.
WMLC, this is pure gold what LH has posted here. Really good stuff, spot on. Reread this a few times and understand it.
Thanks Steve and LH. Sage words, indeed. Sums up my sitch very succinctly. Just going to keep DBing and make sure I come out the other side as best as I can be.
W
Does anyone see any value in trying to ascertain more about W's sitch/plans before next mediation session? I'm talking about a quiet conversation about where she will live, with whom, etc. Or, just wait as these types of questions will likely necessarily be answered during the mediation process?
Does anyone see any value in trying to ascertain more about W's sitch/plans before next mediation session? I'm talking about a quiet conversation about where she will live, with whom, etc. Or, just wait as these types of questions will likely necessarily be answered during the mediation process?
So let me turn that question back to you. What value is there in trying to ascertain that stuff?
Hi Steve,
Primarily, just more knowledge heading into a mediation session. Also, I don't truly know what I'm dealing with here and some clarity would bring me some peace. I do understand whatever she is doing is about her and I need to focus on me. And part of focusing on me includes protecting mine and my kids' best interests during the mediation process. The more I know going in, the better, IMO.
W
So how does knowing where she will live and with whom help you with the mediation? I'm not saying it doesn't, I just don't know how it does.
It would help me in choosing where I want to live, what school system to place S11 in. Obviously if there is any shared custody, there will be exchanges etc. As far as with whom, I would like to know that my kids would be a in a safe environment when not with me, so I could get a jump start on that aspect as well.
It would help me in choosing where I want to live, what school system to place S11 in. Obviously if there is any shared custody, there will be exchanges etc. As far as with whom, I would like to know that my kids would be a in a safe environment when not with me, so I could get a jump start on that aspect as well.
Save all that for mediation. That's what mediation is for. You're looking for excuses to reach out to her. That is rarely, id ever, the right move.
Does anyone see any value in trying to ascertain more about W's sitch/plans before next mediation session? I'm talking about a quiet conversation about where she will live, with whom, etc. Or, just wait as these types of questions will likely necessarily be answered during the mediation process?
It would help me in choosing where I want to live, what school system to place S11 in. Obviously if there is any shared custody, there will be exchanges etc. As far as with whom, I would like to know that my kids would be a in a safe environment when not with me, so I could get a jump start on that aspect as well.
I wouldn't bring it up before, and I'm not sure I even see value in knowing her current partner or planned residence during the mediation session. In a settlement, you generally place parameters on things--e.g., characters of acceptable school districts (within X miles, with test scores above Y), perhaps characteristics of safe homes and overnight partners and notifications upon changes if that's an area of concern. As for pickup, it's usually enough to say who does it and whether it happens at school or your residences. The specific change over time. The initial school district is the one item you mentioned we directly negotiated.
Who she lives in the future is really not your business. Even she does not know that. And even if she does, it could change. A MLCer's mind is really a hot mess. One day this, next day complete opposite. There really is no telling. So it is best you be proactive, like others have said. This schoold district, distance X from Y and such. Protect yourself, do what is best for you and your kids.
First mediation session was pro forma. Basically finances were discussed and the chips were laid on the table. Next session in a few weeks, we start talking turkey. Continuing to DB and work on myself, while spending quality time with my kids. Looking forward to my future!
Update
W emailed mediator this morning (without CC'ing me) that she wanted to move it up if possible. Mediator forwarded email to the both of us and we agreed to move it up a week. I suggested to W that we try and have a discussion before hand so we can answer mediator's questions about what each of us is looking for, plus let him know of anything we mutually agree on. She agreed, and we will discuss this coming Friday.
What spurred this on was she spent some money on clothes for S11 without discussing with me first, then asked me for half of the bill. I said I have no problem doing that, but that these sorts of transactions in the future will be guided by the agreement hammered out in mediation. She took that and emailed mediator saying we are "already having money issues." Quite the leap, in my opinion. She is likely having some issues with cash flow, I would guess.
After mediator email, she texted saying she knows that she knows she will be "screwed" in the end and that she's "going to lose everything" in the end, but that's a consequence she has to accept. I texted back saying that I was sorry that she felt that way and that I know its not easy, and that I l know it's a very difficult time for her right now. She texted back saying it's a "very difficult time" and that this is hard for her, too. Added that she wants to make this as "easy as possible, because she knows in the long run, she's going to the most hated person." Then said we can meet to discuss this Friday, etc. She texted 90 minutes later saying she made a casserole for the boys, and she hopes they like it. MLC much?
Looking for tips/advice/insight from my friends here.
W,
Terms like "screwed" "lose everything" is WW to paint the illusion that they are the ones to feel sorry for right now. My ex told today she lost one job and got her hours cut at other. Awwwww too bad so sad. Times are tough right now and wouldn't it be great to have a partner to rely on.
She's a detached avoidant who wants to remain friends with you and will take any opening you allow her to be chummy with you.
Met with W in an effort to make mediation session next week more productive. I arrived after her, and was somewhat surprised that she had a coffee for me. Discussed the need to tell the kids about her decision to D before D papers are filed and prior to next mediation session, about which she is very nervous. I validated how I could see how she felt that way and also made it clear that it was her responsibility to let them know her decision, even though we would be there addressing the kids at the same time.
She is starting to realize the financial implications of her decision. I did my best to validate her feelings. 'I know this is a difficult time for you' 'It sounds like you are feeling really anxious.' She is still iffy about where she will live (not saying I believe her, just replaying conversation for folks here), and is unsure of where she will work, etc. Agreed that house will be sold and we will split any equity. Also discussed briefly how we'd like to divvy up the marital debts.
Lasted about 45 minutes, at which point I summarized the conversation to her and ended the discussion.I was better than usual with eye contact and nodding when she spoke etc. When it ended, she asked if she could get anything for the boys at WalMart (I usually shop for the household on Fridays), and I said, "No, thank you. I'm heading there after I make a few other stops." As we were walking to the car she said, "Maybe I'll see you there." After which we went our separate ways.
WMLC, sounds productive. If she is willing to tell the kids about her decision while you're present, that sounds ideal. Good job validating, "It sounds like you are feeling really anxious." Some LBS goof with, "We don't have to do this?!" You found points to agree on for mediation and did your shopping yourself. Good work.
W telling the kids about D this coming Thursday, we will be there together for this. When we last spoke, I asked what she was planning on saying to them, and she said she is going to tell them that "people and things change", and then she said she can't get any further than that in her mind because she starts getting "upset."
A few questions for the board. How do I react when she tells them and both kids (Iikely) and W start to cry? Do I ignore W? After all, she's fired me from the job of being her H. I might be tempted to say a few choice things to her if she turns to me for consolation (this is NOT my style, and would be a 180 for me, as it's an emotional time for everyone). Also likely the boys might not be too fond of her after she tells them she's divorcing me, at which point she will blame me for making her tell them. This has long been her M.O. during our R.
She says she doesn't want to hurt anyone and she knows that it's going to be traumatizing for them, yet she insists on doing it. MLC much?
Tell them you both love them and that the D has NOTHING to do with them. NOTHING! MAke sure that the kiddos do not blame themselves...
Tell them you both love them and that the D has NOTHING to do with them. NOTHING! MAke sure that the kiddos do not blame themselves...
THIS
Do not get into with the W in front of the kids during telling them. Do not air the dirty laundry in front of the kids. Your goal with them is to make this as painless at it possibly can be. If they cry, if she cries, you be a rock emotionally. You can break down later. Your role during this discussion is to comfort them.
By them Steve means the kids, as far as your W is concerned, she can fly a bloody kite.
By them Steve means the kids, as far as your W is concerned, she can fly a bloody kite.
Exactly.
I agree Steve and Vapo. This is about the kids, not me. I would never openly discuss the M in front of them. But I do not want her to say something like "We decided..." This is her decision and I feel she needs to own it.
I agree Steve and Vapo. This is about the kids, not me. I would never openly discuss the M in front of them. But I do not want her to say something like "We decided..." This is her decision and I feel she needs to own it.
You should do some reading on how to tell the kids. This is not a blame session. And in the end, you did decide. Unless you are telling me you want your W to stay with you against her will?
Steve, You are right. It's probably just semantics. She did decide to end the marriage and break up the family. I have decided at this point to not fight for her and to let her go. We will come up with something. I will suggest something like, "It's been decided..." I will do some more reading as well. Thanks for the feedback Steve et al. It's very helpful to be able to bounce these things off of others who have been through it.
I will suggest something like, "It's been decided..."
If she's the one telling them, it may go smoother to take a step back and let her figure out and say her own words. You can always add your own if you feel she missed something important.
I have almost no recollection of "the moment" I told my kids I was D'ing their mom. It was a less important moment for sure than our many follow-up talks as things got "real" over the following weeks. I did read a thin book on the subject of explaining the news to the kids that I read and referred to often.
Journaling
Tomorrow we meet with mediator to sign papers and get the D filed. Not feeling the dread I hate even a just a few months. I am hopeful we can hammer out the details in a reasonable manner, We both like and trust out mediator, so that should help our cause.
W texted a couple of days ago about paying for some clothes for S11 and followed up with a few texts that bordered on R talk. It seemed like she was just sort of explaining how she has rewritten history. I just validated and did't further the conversation much at all. Among the lines she said to me were, "This was/is a difficult decision for me. I didn't wake up one day and decide this." "We've had no connection for years and I've tried to make it perfect and happy and it's just not there." "Why do either of us want to stay in a marriage that we don't feel loved or appreciated or whatever the case may be?" "Yes. I think this is the best course of action.... for both us."
I found the last statement this most interesting, but I did not pursue and try to ascertain what she was trying to say there. She also offered to separate and "start moving on" so it would be gradual for the kids, which I declined.
Onward.
W,
She’s not going to feel connected while another man is involved and while her hormones are changing etc, etc, etc. unfortunately with her mindset you had no chance. Your W reminds me of my ex and will likely head down the same path. I’m two years out and her life is no better. She’s dating a loser and just lost one job and got her hours cut at another job so she’s totally stressed out. I guess you can’t predict a pandemic when your planning out your amazing life.
You’re doing the right thing by dropping the rope and letting her go.
Stay strong man!
Thanks, LH.
May I ask what kind of custody arrangement you got in your sitch and how it is working out? Kids are my biggest concern, by far.
W,
I have 50/50 and my kids are doing great! My relationship with them is fantastic and at least 50 percent of the time they have a stress free place to live. Just tonight we had a big UNO games and there was nothing but laughter and smiles. You and your kids will be fine and you’ll be free of the BS drama of it all. This stuff all takes time to work itself through, you just have to be extremely patient with yourself.
Met with the mediator and signed the D paper work today. W got upset during the signing of the papers and went to the restroom to collect herself. I did not show any emotion. The rest of the meeting was the mediator explaining the process and beginning to discuss how we "untangle" things. W had very few answers and didn't seem to have any plan (I'm not saying I believe her).
Meeting ended and I walked out to my car ahead of W. I could hear her crying but I didn't stop. Then she wrapped her arms around me from behind and said through tears, "I'm sorry. It's my fault. I just don't see a future." I said, "I'm sorry you feel that way" and walked over to my car, at which point she confirmed the realtor appointment for next week and we went our separate ways.
W,
You handled it perfectly!
Just want to wish all the Dads on the board a happy Father's Day tomorrow. Don't let your sitch rob you of any joy. You deserve to have a great day!
What is the advice on whether to respond if W reached out to wish a Happy Father's Day via text, etc?
W,
Your call. Wouldn’t give more then a thanks or thanks emoji.
Almost certain she will.
Thanks is all that is needed. Let a few hours pass before responding if she does.
Well, tonight's the night we tell the kids. Plan is to let W break the news. We spoke about what language to use, but I'm not holding my breath she will do the right thing. My focus is on the kids and making sure they know this isn't their fault and that we both love them very much, and that everything will be okay. Hope to update again later tonight.
Regarding your kids, they will be fine. Your W has already harmed them by cheating on you. The damage is done and can no longer be prevented. SHE DID THIS, you cannot fix it.
When my XW first had an EA my youngest was 5 going on 6, and I could not bear to put her through a divorce, I just didn't feel like I could do it, and I too endeavored to hide everything from my kids.
Despite the fact that both XW and I did a really good job of keeping things hidden and "acting as if" they still picked up on the tension, of course they did. Your kids have too.
Having to tell them that XW would be moving out was one of the hardest days of my life leading up to that moment, but once it was done it was a tremendous relief. My daughter cried for a bit then we went as a family to see their new house and they were fine. Kids are like that, they're resilient. They process the change and they carry on, faster than adults do.
Your kids cannot have the life back that they have had -- they can't. Your W's actions have removed that as a possibility. Seeing you stand up for yourself and continuing to love and support them is a great example to set.
Sometimes things don't work out the way you wanted but you can still have a wonderful life, despite the change. I'm sure your kids won't suffer for learning that lesson.
How are my kids doing now? Honestly they are doing GREAT! Do they like going back and forth between houses? No. Do they like that their family traditions, like vacations together and restaurant meals as a family have been disrupted? No. But they do feel loved by both of us, they know that we are there for them, they have each other, and that is more than enough. Believe me it is.
Well, tonight's the night we tell the kids. Plan is to let W break the news. We spoke about what language to use, but I'm not holding my breath she will do the right thing. My focus is on the kids and making sure they know this isn't their fault and that we both love them very much, and that everything will be okay. Hope to update again later tonight.
Good luck. Telling my D was one of my biggest dreads in my whole sitch. Luckily for me it never came to that, but if it had I would have taken the same approach. How much she is loved, and that it had nothing to do with her. I also would not be pointing the finger at my W. I knew that one day she'd see that I was the one that tried everything I could to hold things together. Truth always has a way of winning out, so no need to express how this is her doing. Just keep it as generic as possible.
All things considered, it went about as well as it could have. We called them together and W told them there were going to be some changes, including we are getting a D. We both assured them this had nothing to do with them and that we both loved them very much and always will, regardless of circumstances.
Some tears from W and S11, and S19 was pretty stoic. W then left to go see her sick mother. I was expecting the worst, so it's a pretty big relief that it's over, to be honest.
Hi WMLC,
Hugs from afar. That conversation is the one I've been dreading more than anything as well. I'm glad you got through it in one piece and can be there with your kids tonight. I read that continuing to make sure they know you both love them, this has nothing to do with them, and validating their emotions as you move forward is all important.
At least now that you're past this big thing, hopefully things can move forward positively without this being something in the future to be worried about, if that makes sense.
May
W,
You have the worst of it behind you now and you can start to focus on your new life. Things never end up being as bad as we fear, that is why wasting time worrying about the future is pointless.
You’ll and your kids will be fine.
I have begun telling my siblings and family about my situation. One thing I did not expect: It's been a cathartic experience! It's really nice to hear so much unconditional support, without any judgement from people. I can finally see that there is life on the other side of this mess.
W,
You again the support from friends and family are amazing and not what I expected. I think I thought I would be judged more. Another thing I spent countless wasted worrying about before it happened.
One of the many inspirational sayings I've come across while reading during this last year-plus is the following quote: "Everything you want is on the other side of fear." It's been attributed to multiple people, but it just rings so true.
My biggest hang-up early on was, like many others here, being paralyzed and not wanting to do anything to "make things worse." As LH and many of the vets here have pointed out faithfully, the reality is that BD is THE WORST and nothing you say or do is going make it any worse once BD happens.
To those earlier in their sitches than I am, I must tell you that dropping the rope and working on yourself is the only way forward. You cannot "nice" or "mean" them back. But you can save yourself and set yourself up to live your best life moving forward, with or without our MLCer.
Let go of the fear that's holding you back. There's a whole new world out there just waiting for you. Don't worry or focus on your MLCer. They will know how to find you should they ever want to down the line.
Peace and love to all.
Update
Received draft separation agreement and currently reviewing it. I would appreciate any opinions you may have on it. The initial proposal proposal calls for me to be the custodial parent with joint legal custody. I get S11 Mon-Fri during the school year, and W gets him on weekends. The schedule reverses during the summer. No child support, and $1 alimony per year to W for 5 years. Those are the highlights. Thoughts?
W,
Sounds like a really good deal to me. You get more time with your son and no CS or A is big. I would take it.
Yes, sounds like a winner.
When it is finalized I would hand her a $5 check and tell her you are prepaying your alimony............
Coming here to process this in a healthy manner. Just confirmed a suspected PA by W. There is nothing to be gained by confronting W, correct?
Coming here to process this in a healthy manner. Just confirmed a suspected PA by W. There is nothing to be gained by confronting W, correct?
No.
There is an EA or PA in the vast majority of these sitches. I always try to brace LBSs for this eventuality.
What would you hope to accomplish by confronting her?
I don't think it would accomplish anything. I think it's just the natural inclination to want to let her know that she's not pulling the wool over my eyes. That's of no value to me as I move forward, however, and I do realize that fact. I have suspected and assumed PA from the moment of BD, so this is truly no surprise. We are getting a D, so I see no benefit to confronting her while she's being cooperative with our mediation discussions.
I came here to help process the info and to not react to it out of emotion. I appreciate the advice as always, Steve.
Yes, sounds like a winner.
When it is finalized I would hand her a $5 check and tell her you are prepaying your alimony............
That would be epic. I love it.
Update
We have not agreed to anything officially as far as D goes, waiting for mediator to schedule meeting to review proposed terms. Mediator fell ill last week, so hopefully it will happen soon.
I'm signing a lease for 3 BR apartment this week and moving Labor Day weekend. I will be closer to work and to my extended family. Closing on our house is slated for 10/2.
My brother tells me that W called sister in-law earlier this week in tears saying, "We sold the house. I don't have a place to live." Also, when school called last week asking of S11 would be attending this year, W told them. "He's with H. You'll have to ask him."
Those terms sound ideal WM!! Do not talk to her about the PA. It won’t do anything but potentially lessen her spirit of cooperation in terms of negotiating the terms of your divorce. Glad to hear you are doing well. There definitely IS life after divorce. (((HUGS)))
Journaling
Stop me when you have heard this before...
W spoke to a family member of mine and told "her story." She said we got married young and that she still loves me but she's not in love with me. W said she knows my family is close and doesn't know what I've told them, but she's not an evil person. She said she loves my family, and that's part of why it took so long to BD. W said we didn't work on the marriage, really focused and the kids, and that we grew apart.
W said I'm a good man and a good father and that she did all the things she should, but she's not happy any more. She added that she tried to get me to do things with her, but I wasn't interested.Things would improve for a bit, and but not last. She concluded that she's lost everything, her house, job, family and kids to hopefully be happy.
This is more or less the "story" I got from her at BD over a year ago. It's what she has cooked up in her head to give herself permission to make the choices she has made. This is about her, not about me.
As for me, it's been a busy time.Accepted an offer on the house. Leased a place for myself and S 19, S11. Moving next weekend and S11 will start in his new school thereafter. Keeping the focus on me and the kids.
WMLC... I think that’s a pretty good synopsis of what happened from her perspective. I don’t think it is a story...I think it is what happens in a lot of marriages. LH just did a great post about it. I’m not sure she has given herself permission. Her awareness of what she has lost just tells me how desperate she was/is to feel happy again. The faulty thinking is that she thinks your relationship was the source of her unhappiness. Because of this, she believes it isn’t fixable and, as long as she believes that, it isn’t. So you are doing the right thing... moving forward and focusing on building a life without her. Keep up the good work. (((HUGS)))
This is more or less the "story" I got from her at BD over a year ago. It's what she has cooked up in her head to give herself permission to make the choices she has made.
Vu is right that this is not something she has cooked up in her head this is how she feels. Right or wrong these are her feelings. Just like it's up to you whether you have empathy for her or not. Those are your feelings and there are not right wrong. If you read other threads there are guys on here like Ironwill and DNJ who have a lot of empathy for WWs. Then there some who have none. Personally I had empathy early on but me ex has crossed some boundaries with me that the empathy has faded. I also agree that our exs are not evil and are just trying to be happy. Heck the Pursuit of Happiness is even in the Declaration of Independence lol. The problem is that they are not educated enough on the subject in regards to what happens in a mid-life transition and how hormones and brain chemicals play a factor in their feelings. Typically years down the road they are in the same place they started just without the history, friends and finances they once had and still seeking happiness. The toughest part is when you have kids because then one person is making a decision for the entire family.
This is about her, not about me.
Absolutely! You played a role in it but in all likelihood this was always going to be the outcome.
Update
My move with S19 and S11 was completed this weekend. Everyone settling in so far. S11 starts new school tomorrow. As expected, he's both nervous and excited. W texted this afternoon (she's 20 miles away) asking if it was okay with me if she stopped here to see S11 off on his first day. I have not responded, and I'd love some of your wise advice/thoughts on this.Thanks!
UpdateMy move with S19 and S11 was completed this weekend. Everyone settling in so far. S11 starts new school tomorrow. As expected, he's both nervous and excited. W texted this afternoon (she's 20 miles away) asking if it was okay with me if she stopped here to see S11 off on his first day. I have not responded, and I'd love some of your wise advice/thoughts on this.Thanks!
What are your thoughts around it? Would it be hurtful for you? Would it be hurtful to S11 if she wasn't there? What are her patterns? Does she usually see him off on his first day?
Could you possible set something up where she can see him off but not enter the new place?
He's eleven, 7th grade roughly. Kids are pulling away at that point, he's not a little guy anymore it's time to treat him like a young man IMO. That just sounds weird.
Update
I moved last month to an apartment with S19 and S11. So far, so good on that. We are closing on the sale of our marital home today (fingers crossed), so another link broken. We are in the process of scheduling what will likely be our final mediation session.
W texted this morning and said she wanted to talk to the kids about "a few things" but wanted to talk to me first. I responded saying that's fine, and asked what she had in mind. She said she was going into work and would text me later. She indicated it would be about "new people in her life." No surprise here, but any and all advice on how to handle this is appreciated.
W
Update
I moved last month to an apartment with S19 and S11. So far, so good on that. We are closing on the sale of our marital home today (fingers crossed), so another link broken. We are in the process of scheduling what will likely be our final mediation session.
W texted this morning and said she wanted to talk to the kids about "a few things" but wanted to talk to me first. I responded saying that's fine, and asked what she had in mind. She said she was going into work and would text me later. She indicated it would be about "new people in her life." No surprise here, but any and all advice on how to handle this is appreciated.
W
You cannot control any of that. And it is within her power to introduce new people to your kids. The only time you have a leg to stand on is if the "person" is a threat to a minor child. IE, if she is introducing known sex-offenders to your S11 then you'd have a legal standing to take action to prevent that. LBSs whose WAS begin to introduce another person (IE, a love interest) to their children usually do not like it, but there is little you can do to prevent it.
So be the best father that you can be, no matter what your STBXW does.
We communicated via text this past Sunday morning re: S11's birthday and she asked to come over to my new place for cake etc. I told her she was welcomed to pick up S11 and spend time with him, but I didn't feel it was appropriate to have her in my house to have cake. She replied asking why it wasn't appropriate (she is in a full-blown PA and D is not yet final, mind you), and added some jive about having to "raise the boys together" and we would need to be in the same room at the same time either at my house or her house" etc.
I didn't take the bait, but rather asked her what time she planned on picking up S11. She kept pushing and I told her I wasn't going to have further discussion on this topic, especially via text, and that ended it.
What could be our final mediation session coming up this Thursday. Looking forward to hopefully wrapping this thing up.
Good job holding your ground. She’s not calling the shots.
I agree, good move. You aren't obligated to be her buddy.
Update
Reached verbal agreement on a settlement and just waiting on final agreement from the mediator to review, sign and submit to the court. Hopefully all done by 12/15.
W wanted to talk about "other people in her life" via text so she could tell the kids, but I pushed to speak in person so nothing could be misinterpreted. We met for about 10 minutes and (this will shock you all!) she has told me that she has moved back to her hometown and she is living with her "boyfriend," his sister and their father. I didn't flinch and said, "Well, good luck to you. Let me know what you tell the kids so I can answer any questions they might have." She got choked up, and then I got up to leave. And that was that.
How far away is her hometown?
It's 15 miles from where I am now, and about 25 miles from where we lived while married.
Sounds like a typical lost WW story that is destined to crash and burn.
Your strength is shinning. Keep it up!
I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving. I cooked a full Thanksgiving dinner (even baked a dessert!) for myself and my kids. Organized a Zoom call with my siblings so everyone could catch up. Had a terrific holiday.
Mediation scheduled for this upcoming week, and we should be signing all the final paperwork to be sent to the court for final approval. W is getting prickly here at the end (not unexpected) and making all sorts of wild statements about blowing the deal up. I don't respond, nor do I expect things to fall apart. We shall see.
For me, I do not view D as an impediment to any possible R. I also do not view R as my end goal. I'm just moving forward, working on myself and doing all I can for my kids.
Peace and love.
W
W, keep up the good work!
Been wanting to update my sitch, so here goes.
D became final in early December. I got the things I needed in the settlement, and life has been moving along. It's been a long 20-month journey, but I do feel better than I have in a long time. Kids are adjusting to things well thus far, and that has made it easier.
To those dealing with a WAS and who might be earlier in their sitches, let me say this: IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT! Sure, maybe you could done some things differently in retrospect, but this is all about your WAS and their issues. There is nothing you can do for them except to let them go to deal with their stuff. Whether you stand and stay married, separate and stand, or just move on, never lose sight of the fact that your life can and will be just fine if you do the work that is necessary.
I will continue to visit here and chime in with comments and updates as I can. Thank you all for the help and guidance over the last 20 months, you have no idea how much it has meant to me.
Peace.
W
Hi W,
Just read your sitch. I am amazed at how well you DB'd. Truly!
I just found out that my X was having a PA the entire time (3 1/2 yrs) I was 'standing' and I got a lot of comfort from your posts.
I hope to feel more and more detached as the days progress.
My kids are all grown, so I don't have to hear anything about X or OW.
This is a blessing.
Glad you came back and updated. I was just wringing yesterday that the stories help so much and give me hope.
x
For me, I do not view D as an impediment to any possible R. I also do not view R as my end goal. I'm just moving forward, working on myself and doing all I can for my kids.
I wish all newcomers asking the board if there is hope for their M would read your statement.
Been a while and wanted to update my sitch.
Relationship with XW hasn't changed much. I make sure the kids are available when and if she asks to see them, etc. This has averaged about once out of every 10 days or so, usually only for an hour or two at a time. XW still stuck in the tunnel, drinking, smoking pot, going to see her boyfriend and his band play, etc.
I do not ever text or contact her first, and when she texts I do not respond unless its relevant to the kids or if there's a question asked. She got snippety recently regarding COVID vaccination for S12. We discussed via text (so I had in it writing) getting him vaccinated and mutually agreed to get him the vaccine, if he wanted it, which he did. Once that was decided, I went ahead and scheduled it. She sent me a nasty text saying that "she's still his mother" (this is her go-to line, "I'll always be their mother), and "it would have been nice if you told me about it so I knew." I simply responded that we had discussed this issue and mutually agreed to get him vaccinated. In my opinion, discussing plans and experiences with our sons is no longer a part of our relationship post-D. It's a boundary I won't cross.
I have been dating someone for the last 5 months and it's been absolutely awesome thus far. It's nice to be with someone who understands your value and doesn't take you for granted. Really amazing how things have changed for the better over the last 22 months, and it's only looking up from here.
I still check in with the board and follow many of your sitches. Keep your head up, everyone, and know that you are here primarily because of your MLC spouse, not because you are deficient in any way. Keep moving forward and working on yourself!
Peace.
XW still stuck in the tunnel, drinking, smoking pot, going to see her boyfriend and his band play, etc.
Yo W good to hear from you. I know Ws of cover band members and that life gets old real quick. She is going to be in for a rude awakening when she wakes up.
WMLC good to hear from you. Wow, the drinking and smoking pot then wanting to take the kids concerns me, greatly. If you ever have the hint that she under the influence of either I would not allow them to go with her.
Good to hear you got the exchange on the vaccine in writing. WASs are notorious for pulling this kind of crap with the kids. "I never said that! I never agreed to that!" etc.
I'll be honest, I would rather you not being dating right now. Rs are hard enough with the specter of a D and a troublesome STBXW on your hands. Plus the idea after separation for the LBS is to learn how to be happy alone. But, it is your choice, you get to decide what is best for you.
Always appreciate posters giving us an update on what is going on!
Hi Steve,
I understand your point on dating. But D was finalized in December, and it was 18 months of separation and prior to that, so I felt ready to jump in the water.
WMLC
Hi Steve,
I understand your point on dating. But D was finalized in December, and it was 18 months of separation and prior to that, so I felt ready to jump in the water.
WMLC
Sorry, forgot about the D going final! I'm that case I'm supportive!