Hello, I'm new here.
I could never have imagined I'd find myself here, but like the rest of us here I am.
On Monday 4/6 my W informed me that:
A) Our marriage doesn't work
B) She wants to file for divorce
C) She has developed feelings for someone else, a mutual friend.
P and I have been together for 14 years. We've been married for 2 1/2 years. We have had our ups and downs like any other couple but things had always seemed to turn for the better and we would moved forward. Now, looking back at the 6 months prior to D-day, it's obvious to me she was trying harder than usual to convey to me concerns about the health of our marriage and the degree of her unhappiness. For reasons that I can't even explain to myself I seemingly failed to sense the true urgency of our problems. Maybe I recoiled and felt I was under attack. Maybe I thought this storm would pass like others prior. I can't understand why I was so self-absorbed/oblivious as to not hear her 11th hour attempts to fix this marriage. I'm having a difficult time forgiving myself and feel as though I spent 6 months breaking my own heart as well as hers while not even realizing it.
If she wanted my attention she got it. Unfortunately it would seem that at some point btw the beginning of March and mid March she burnt out, gave up, saw no evidence that things could ever improve to where she would find happiness and as a result, emotionally disconnected from our marriage and myself. It's my understanding that it's typical to not realize this event until the day the bad news arrives.
I'm 57 and this is actually my first marriage. P is 54 and it's her third though her 2nd was only for a few months. P is an RN but also moonlights singing in a local band. The OM is also a member of that band and is 72. Their friendship had been innocent and platonic, the three of us often went out for dinner together. Then seemingly out of nowhere at the beginning of April it went beyond innocent. As I had had a ringside seat for much of this buildup I can see where the two of them obviously got along well as friends and as musicians, but I never thought this was possible. I feel like a fool.
I move out this Sunday. I can't eat, I can't sleep. I blame myself for not being the attentive person I thought I was but clearly wasn't. I wish I could go back 6 months and knock some sense into myself. I love my W and now that I've awakened there is nothing within my capacity I wouldn't do to try to fix our relationship. As is often the case however, it would seem the opportunity to do that will not exist. It seems like I'm dealing with a trifecta of WAW, an exit affair, and possibly limerence. Clearly this will be an uphill battle and not one I should hold out much hope for, but just 32 days into this I feel like I need to try. If this is over, and it sure seems that way, I'll feel better knowing I did everything I could once I finally awakened to how bad things actually were.
I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome posting. Please read all of the links.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmand Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-66, D33,S32
Sorry you're hear Bob.
Keep reading and posting here. I know your pain, I've been there.
Don't move out of your house. Don't do it. Let her move out. You didn't cheat. And it's your house too so if you want to not appear pathetic to her please don't move out b/c she told you she is cheating and wants a divorce. Just say OK there's the door W and turn the TV back on.
Implement the Last Resort Technique:
1. Stop pursuing (none, zero, nada)
2. GAL (get a life)
3. Wait and See.
You need to get out and get busy and try to take your mind off of this, at least some of the time. Change your focus off of her and on to you. Make you and your life the best it can be.
I will check this later and post more then.
Thank you ovrrnbw, actually in this case the home is hers. She said I could take as much time as I need. The fact is I want to get out so we can both have space. I also need to get away to help me clear my head and begin the process of working on myself. As we share a Golden Retriever, who is closer to me than her, it's going to be difficult to not have some contact.
So I moved out this past Sunday. The preceding week had been an emotional roller coaster of a week. On one hand I didn't want to leave her and the space that had been home for 14 years. On the other hand I felt the need to get out for my own sense of sanity and to give her space.
Friday night when she got home from the hospital she asked if there was more room in the guest room bed, which was a bit of a surprise. She snuggled, told me she was going to miss me, talked about how awesome a Step Dad I had been to her son for so many years, and expressed gratitude over the support I had given her over the years through many personal challenges. I told her that I didn't doubt there may be a small part of her that might miss me periodically given our shared history and experiences, but stated as well I was aware of her desire at this time to move on.
We had talked about having a last dinner together for Saturday night, but when the opportunity came for her to go to a social distancing cookout with friends in RI the dinner plans quickly fell through, which kind of brought me back to Earth. I felt slighted.
Late Sunday afternoon I was gone. We hugged, she cried a little. I hadn't been in my new residence for more than five minutes when she sent me photos of our dog indicating the dog already missed me. She also said if there was anything I needed to let her know.
Our arrangement for the dog at this time is to split time with her for two weeks. While the dog is at her place I'll be sharing morning feeding/walking duties with a friend on days P is working. I've been skeptical of this but agreed to at least attempt it. Yesterday was the first day. If not for the dog being happy to see me I would have thought I had accidently stepped into the wrong home. It felt strange. It felt uncomfortable. The same home I had awakened in just two days before, as I had for the prior 14 years, already had the feel of a different space. In the kitchen I saw where the OM had pretty much already set up shop with a cappuccino machine and other assortments, a half consumed bottle of wine in the refrigerator, the deck furniture was rearranged in a manner clearly showing the cozy get together that had taken place there since my departure not even 48 hours before. I felt nauseous and wondered why I agreed to this arrangement, which struck me as a violation of boundaries on many levels. After walking the dog I couldn't get out of there fast enough.
With each passing day the reality of all of this penetrates my thick skull a little more. She's past grieving the end of our relationship. I was oblivious when she was going through this. She now feels hopeful for a future which doesn't include me, while I, only five weeks after learning about her plans and still trying to absorb this and hold on to any shred of hope if there is any to grasp, feel more hopeless this can ever be saved.
If not for the dog being happy to see me I would have thought I had accidently stepped into the wrong home. It felt strange. It felt uncomfortable. The same home I had awakened in just two days before, as I had for the prior 14 years, already had the feel of a different space. In the kitchen I saw where the OM had pretty much already set up shop with a cappuccino machine and other assortments, a half consumed bottle of wine in the refrigerator, the deck furniture was rearranged in a manner clearly showing the cozy get together that had taken place there since my departure not even 48 hours before. I felt nauseous and wondered why I agreed to this arrangement, which struck me as a violation of boundaries on many levels. After walking the dog I couldn't get out of there fast enough.
First, very sorry you're going through this. But yes, this is why we say not to move out. In your case it was her house so you really didn't have a choice, but it's not unusual for a wayward to move OM in as soon as the LBS is out even if they expressed no interest in dating beforehand. They have this fantasy all mapped out in their head and can't want to implement it.
With each passing day the reality of all of this penetrates my thick skull a little more. She's past grieving the end of our relationship. I was oblivious when she was going through this. She now feels hopeful for a future which doesn't include me, while I, only five weeks after learning about her plans and still trying to absorb this and hold on to any shred of hope if there is any to grasp, feel more hopeless this can ever be saved.
It's not nearly as hopeless as it may seem. There are three possible outcomes:
1. WAS explores new life for a while, finds it's not all sunshine and rainbows, eventually reconciles with LBS.
2. Same as above, but LBS has moved on and doesn't want to reconcile anymore.
3. WAS rides into the sunset happy as can be.
Just based on my own anecdotal evidence from these forums and personal experiences, 1 and 2 are far more common than 3. A lot of people think the "success rate" in saving M's is very low, but what they don't realize is it is because of number 2 above, it's the LBS that eventually decides they are done and moving on. It makes sense if you think about it. Imagine you've been through all the hurt and pain you're in now, but for months and months. All the while, your W is partying it up with OM and just having a grand old time, the two of them thumbing their noses at you from your old home. Eventually you heal and start getting a life of your own and ceasing to care about what she's doing. You address the pain, you recover, you feel good about life again. Eventually you may even start dating and find someone who gives you the respect and attention you realize you weren't getting in your old relationship. THEN your W strolls back into your life wanting to reconcile. Would you want to consider getting back with the person that skipped out on the marriage without warning and immediately shacked up with someone else? Who didn't give you the time of day for a year or more, and now suddenly can't live without you? Could you possibly trust this person to be loyal and faithful from now on? Often the answer is no, no, no.
Anyway my point is that depending on how patient you are, chances are better than you think that your W will eventually come around.
BobP, sorry you are going through this. Unfortunately this is typical WW behavior.
I say this a lot, something that was said to me in my sitch when my W wanted to move out and get her own apartment (it is specific to women but it is really gender neutral: "Women do not need their own place to find themselves or to work on the marriage. Women need their own place to sleep with other people."
As AS said, her moving OM in, even if he isn't sleeping there, is typical. And while it was her house, you are married and a resident of that abode. Most lawyers would have told you that you should stay....and that you had a legal right to stay. I really wish you had consulted a lawyer before making such a big decision. The end of a marriage is a largely a legal proceeding. You need legal advice to guide you through that.
As far as the agreement on dog care. Terrible. Your justification for moving out was to give her space. How does going to the house so often accomplish that? I would rearrange it. When dog is in her care it's her responsibility. If she cannot take care of the dog, then you should take the dog 100% of the time! Look at how badly seeing what you've seen has already set you back?
You are making a lot of mistakes. I don't mean to beat you over the head but sometimes bluntness is necessary, and I would love to see you start taking back some respect, and stand up for yourself.
"Sorry, the current arrangement with the dog is not working. I feel I should take the dog full time and you can have visitation rights. Unless you think you can handle the care of the dog for the 2 weeks at a time it is with you?"
For dog drop offs and pickups, it is just like a child drop off and pickups. Picking the dog up from you is her responsibility (IE you do not deliver the dog to her.) When it is your turn to pick the dog up from her, you pull up in the driveway, or curbside and the dog is to be brought out to you.
She doesn't get to have you move out, do whatever she wants with whomever she wants, but still give you access to the place because it is convenient to her. Waywards are the worst because they will take and take and take until you put your foot down. So give up the keys to the house. And do not agree to take care of things for her. She fired you as her husband, she doesn't get to have her cake and eat it too!
Oh, and her manipulation attempts are disgusting to me. Snuggling up to you, being sad you are leaving. Etc. It was all manipulations to get you to be "peaceful" and to be there when she needs you. Rip the bandaid off. She doesn't get to have you when she needs you, and then do whatever she wants with whomever she wants. She is not respecting you, at all. Start doing things that command respect!!
It's not nearly as hopeless as it may seem. There are three possible outcomes:
1. WAS explores new life for a while, finds it's not all sunshine and rainbows, eventually reconciles with LBS.
2. Same as above, but LBS has moved on and doesn't want to reconcile anymore.
3. WAS rides into the sunset happy as can be.
Thanks for the reply AS,
In this particular case the pairing may have some legs (outcome 3). I know the OM very well. I had considered him a friend until recently. He lost his wife to cancer about a year ago just two weeks shy of their 50th wedding anniversary. Since that time my W and myself had been part of his support as he grieved the loss of his spouse. Fearing he was lonely we would often include him in many of our activities. The three of us would often go out for dinner. My W and him have worked closely with one another for about a year and a half as part of a three person musical group that performs locally. The W has always had a deep admiration for him for the person he is and has always enjoyed working with him as well as enjoying his company. Of course this was innocent and platonic and I never could have dreamed her interest in him could have ever been romantic. In fact we had been actively trying to set him up with people because he was complaining of loneliness and didn't appear to have lost interest in getting out there in the wake of his wife's passing. My W says that it just kind of happened involuntarily and suddenly, about half a month after she decided that she wanted out of our marriage. Somewhat understandable, in retrospect we had lost a great deal of the intimacy required to sustain a relationship, something that had gone on a little too long without my sensing how bad it had gotten. Wish I could go back.
She's 54 and he's about to turn 72. Maybe the age differential shouldn't surprise me as much as it has. The only possible traits of his that I can see wearing on her nerves over time is what I had detected as a very unattractive neediness. He has also had health issues, such as prostate cancer, which have impacted certain functions but her attachment to him seems both emotional as well as physical.
Steve85, all your points are well taken. She did emphasize to me on a number of occasions that I didn't need to leave and that she had no intention of kicking me out. If there had not been an OM I would have stayed. The tension, the wondering where the heck she was at times, was getting difficult to live with. But you're right, I'm not good at this, I never thought I'd be dealing with this ever, and I've probably been making a lot of mistakes.
In this particular case the pairing may have some legs (outcome 3). I know the OM very well. I had considered him a friend until recently. He lost his wife to cancer about a year ago just two weeks shy of their 50th wedding anniversary. Since that time my W and myself had been part of his support as he grieved the loss of his spouse. Fearing he was lonely we would often include him in many of our activities. The three of us would often go out for dinner. My W and him have worked closely with one another for about a year and a half as part of a three person musical group that performs locally. The W has always had a deep admiration for him for the person he is and has always enjoyed working with him as well as enjoying his company. Of course this was innocent and platonic and I never could have dreamed her interest in him could have ever been romantic. In fact we had been actively trying to set him up with people because he was complaining of loneliness and didn't appear to have lost interest in getting out there in the wake of his wife's passing. My W says that it just kind of happened involuntarily and suddenly, about half a month after she decided that she wanted out of our marriage.
That sounds a lot like the OM my XW was involved with after BD. His wife didn't die, but she did leave him and shacked up with his brother. He was a coworker of my XW and I knew him beforehand and he seemed like a nice enough guy. We even had him over to our house a few times. My XW was there for him as he grieved the loss of his W. Same thing- enjoyed his company, deep respect, blah blah blah. It became more than friends. Now she barely talks to him. He lost his job years ago and was never motivated to find another. She got really tired of all his neediness. He finally rented out his house because he couldn't afford it and couldn't find a buyer, and moved into a small camper on a deer lease somewhere.
Things may seem peachy for her and OM now but 6 months or a year from now who knows.
[quote=BobP]The tension, the wondering where the heck she was at times, was getting difficult to live with./quote]
What we find is that after the LBS leaves, or even after the WAS leaves, that the tension an dthe wondering where the heck she is doesn't go away. Many times it gets worse. Search internally, isn't this the case? Now that you know he's been spending time there, the wondering is worse, isn't it?
When you make decisions simply to try to relieve your pain, it rarely gets better, and sometimes gets worse. That is why we try to talk LBS into coming here for input before making big decisions.
BobP, I just told another LBS. Unfortunately there is no path forward that will STOP the pain. There will be pain no matter what. My suggestion is to forget trying to avoid the pain and start doing things that move yourself, and potentially your situation, forward.
Bob,
it is hard to kick someone out of house who hasn't paid rent in months. Just because the house is hers doesn't mean she can magically uproot you overnight. I'm posting this for others who are reading more than you. On the other hand, you knew you were going to go anyways so why delay the inevitable? And she told you to take whatever time you needed, so it wasn't like she was rushing you.
I felt nauseous and wondered why I agreed to this arrangement, which struck me as a violation of boundaries on many levels
Ultimately, you were moving out eventually anyways from what I've read, so don't sweat it. You knew this would happen, right? Think of it as ripping of the bandaid. You got it all over with quick. The best thing you can do is be healthy, wealthy, and wise moving forward. Don't bother her at all, let her new fantastic OM be the piece of trash that he is and let her feel how wrong what she is doing really is. If you intrude and point fingers then she has you to blame, don't make yourself a target.
And now that you're out of there, it's time to move forward with your life. Do your best to mourn the loss of this marriage, don't deny the feelings, but don't overindulge either. Accept it, then go GAL and do some things to make your day better.
Steve has great advice in regards to the dog. Do not use the dog as an excuse to snoop or stay attached to her.
My W says that it just kind of happened involuntarily and suddenly, about half a month after she decided that she wanted out of our marriage. Somewhat understandable, in retrospect we had lost a great deal of the intimacy required to sustain a relationship, something that had gone on a little too long without my sensing how bad it had gotten. Wish I could go back.
Now that is an industrial size load of crap if I've ever seen one. All the things she is doing with the OM, she could have done with you.
Again, men and women have a really hard time beings "friends". It just doesn't work. Look at all the OM in me, Steve's, AS's, your situation. Just "friends". F that. Be the man, be the strong individual you are. Don't give in to BS. Focus on Bob, don't focus on the impotent jerk or the WW. Now is the time to grow.
[quote=BobP]The tension, the wondering where the heck she was at times, was getting difficult to live with./quote]
What we find is that after the LBS leaves, or even after the WAS leaves, that the tension an dthe wondering where the heck she is doesn't go away. Many times it gets worse. Search internally, isn't this the case? Now that you know he's been spending time there, the wondering is worse, isn't it?
When you make decisions simply to try to relieve your pain, it rarely gets better, and sometimes gets worse. That is why we try to talk LBS into coming here for input before making big decisions.
BobP, I just told another LBS. Unfortunately there is no path forward that will STOP the pain. There will be pain no matter what. My suggestion is to forget trying to avoid the pain and start doing things that move yourself, and potentially your situation, forward.
I'm finding this to be true.
Unfortunately I only found this site a few weeks back. BD was 4/6.
When I think back over the entire month of April when I was in complete shock, feeling devastated, not eating, pacing back and forth throughout the entire night, trying to reflect back over every day during the last six months to try to understand the timeline better, I think of how much better I might have managed both my emotions, comportment and decisions if I had known about this forum and some of its contributors like yourself, AnotherStander, ovrnnbw and others.
I know where I will be going before I make any more big decisions.
[quote=BobP]The tension, the wondering where the heck she was at times, was getting difficult to live with./quote]
What we find is that after the LBS leaves, or even after the WAS leaves, that the tension an dthe wondering where the heck she is doesn't go away. Many times it gets worse. Search internally, isn't this the case? Now that you know he's been spending time there, the wondering is worse, isn't it?
When you make decisions simply to try to relieve your pain, it rarely gets better, and sometimes gets worse. That is why we try to talk LBS into coming here for input before making big decisions.
BobP, I just told another LBS. Unfortunately there is no path forward that will STOP the pain. There will be pain no matter what. My suggestion is to forget trying to avoid the pain and start doing things that move yourself, and potentially your situation, forward.
I'm finding this to be true.
Unfortunately I only found this site a few weeks back. BD was 4/6.
When I think back over the entire month of April when I was in complete shock, feeling devastated, not eating, pacing back and forth throughout the entire night, trying to reflect back over every day during the last six months to try to understand the timeline better, I think of how much better I might have managed both my emotions, comportment and decisions if I had known about this forum and some of its contributors like yourself, AnotherStander, ovrnnbw and others.
I know where I will be going before I make any more big decisions.
Yep, none of us came to this forum without making mistakes first. The fact that you have that insight to your mistakes is a perfect first step! Hang in there, it gets better.
Just had an interesting call from my W, from whom I've been separated for 6 days.
She has had a timeshare on the beach going back a long ways. Over the 14 years we were together we always enjoyed a week at the timeshare every June along with family and friends. During today's call she offered me use of the timeshare for the first two days we have it, saying that she was going to be working that weekend and that she knows how much I've always enjoyed it. She also restated that she'll always see me as an important figure in her life, one who she hopes to keep in her life as a …. "friend"...… She also said that she hoped that next year I'd be able to be there at the same time as her and the OM. I almost couldn't believe my ears. She's jumping to a lot of conclusions if she's this certain her and the OM will still be an item come June 2021. Maybe they will be but I think those dopamine rushes associated with a novel lover can sure put one in a fantasyland.
I declined on the grounds that I'M her husband and had been her exclusive MAN since the time of our 3rd date. I didn't come into her life to be her friend. I still have my integrity and my self-respect.
So over the last 6 weeks she has told me she cares for my well-being, has thanked me for having been a good role model for her son and for having helped her through tough times, has told me she still "loves" me but just doesn't see us ever working, and did become visibly upset numerous times while I was preparing to move out, at one point visibly shaking, and called me one day very upset apologizing for having "done this to me". I'd rather she respected me, as she had for years, than feel sorry for me and think this would ever be acceptable to me.
Have a coaching session with Chuck on Monday. Should be interesting.
During today's call she offered me use of the timeshare for the first two days we have it, saying that she was going to be working that weekend and that she knows how much I've always enjoyed it. She also restated that she'll always see me as an important figure in her life, one who she hopes to keep in her life as a …. "friend"...… She also said that she hoped that next year I'd be able to be there at the same time as her and the OM. I almost couldn't believe my ears. She's jumping to a lot of conclusions if she's this certain her and the OM will still be an item come June 2021. Maybe they will be but I think those dopamine rushes associated with a novel lover can sure put one in a fantasyland.
He's 72 and had prostate surgery. That might not have affected his MR if his wife had lived, but I'm guessing it won't fly too well with his much younger lover. A fantasy is about all she'll have, until the new wears off and she begins seeing reality. She was unhappy in her Mr (don't believe "
it just happened" between her and OM), and she looked forward to their gigs together, b/c I'm sure he fed her ego as much as possible. I'm even more sure, she gave him plenty, as well. He gave her something, apparently, that she wasn't getting from you. I mean, if you had a sexually starved MR, there must have been a reason.
Looking back at your first post on this thread, when you describe your last night in the home. She got all warm and cozy with you, right? She said things that made you scratch your head. According to your last post, she's still saying things that confuse you. Well, this is the arrogance of an wayward wife. None of it makes logical sense, so don't even bother trying. Something else, she has filled you with nothing but b.s. Everything out of her mouth......just consider it b.s. She's not having second thoughts, or changing her feelings for you, or OM. She's hit her stride in
wayward country, and she'll play you every which way 24/7.........if you let her. How do you stop her from playing you like a fool? Get the heck out of her life, and stop letting her come into yours. Drop her like a rotten potato and go find yourself a life that doesn't include her. When the gigs fail to provide the excitement with OM they previously had, she'll look you up. Then you can determine if you want to take a chance with her. Btw, what happened in her other two MR's? Just wondering if there is a behavior pattern.
Your biggest problem in the meantime, is you'll want to see some positive sign in absolutely everything she says/does. I'm telling you, straight from the horse's mouth, she'll go running back to you when you dump her and stop giving her the time of day. And, if she's serious about it, she'll stop the game playing, lying, and cheating. If not, then mark it down she isn't serious about saving the M........ she just wants to keep you on the back burner in case her 72 yr old playmate loses his hotness.
Are you working full time? Have hobbies, enjoy particular activities? Do you have buddies who aren't attached to women who are associated with your WW? In other words, someone that wasn't
couple friends with you & WW?
Hope you'll stick with us and post often.
He's 72 and had prostate surgery. That might not have affected his MR if his wife had lived, but I'm guessing it won't fly too well with his much younger lover. A fantasy is about all she'll have, until the new wears off and she begins seeing reality. She was unhappy in her Mr (don't believe "it just happened" between her and OM), and she looked forward to their gigs together, b/c I'm sure he fed her ego as much as possible. I'm even more sure, she gave him plenty, as well. He gave her something, apparently, that she wasn't getting from you. I mean, if you had a sexually starved MR, there must have been a reason.
Looking back at your first post on this thread, when you describe your last night in the home. She got all warm and cozy with you, right? She said things that made you scratch your head. According to your last post, she's still saying things that confuse you. Well, this is the arrogance of an wayward wife. None of it makes logical sense, so don't even bother trying. Something else, she has filled you with nothing but b.s. Everything out of her mouth......just consider it b.s. She's not having second thoughts, or changing her feelings for you, or OM. She's hit her stride in wayward country, and she'll play you every which way 24/7.........if you let her. How do you stop her from playing you like a fool? Get the heck out of her life, and stop letting her come into yours. Drop her like a rotten potato and go find yourself a life that doesn't include her. When the gigs fail to provide the excitement with OM they previously had, she'll look you up. Then you can determine if you want to take a chance with her. Btw, what happened in her other two MR's? Just wondering if there is a behavior pattern.
Your biggest problem in the meantime, is you'll want to see some positive sign in absolutely everything she says/does. I'm telling you, straight from the horse's mouth, she'll go running back to you when you dump her and stop giving her the time of day. And, if she's serious about it, she'll stop the game playing, lying, and cheating. If not, then mark it down she isn't serious about saving the M........ she just wants to keep you on the back burner in case her 72 yr old playmate loses his hotness.
Are you working full time? Have hobbies, enjoy particular activities? Do you have buddies who aren't attached to women who are associated with your WW? In other words, someone that wasn't couple friends with you & WW?
Hope you'll stick with us and post often.
Thank you for the insight Sandi2.
There is no doubt, upon reflection, that over the last year, particularly the last six months, we had lost much of our connectedness as she became more focused on the music while I remained home engrossed in my own interests. When she began singing out five years ago I was more of a presence at both rehearsals and at the gigs. We gradually fell into a pattern where we were becoming roommates with less overlap of common interests. She attempted to communicate concerns about our direction on numerous occasions, but for reasons I can't even explain to myself, I didn't sense the true urgency and I wasn't as responsive as I needed to be. I won't be making this mistake ever again. There was clearly a lot of two way validation btw W and OM as I witnessed it myself while the three of us were together. Seemed harmless at the time. I guess I should have been at least a little concerned. And yes, the frequency of sex had fallen below what would have been considered our historical normal. I'm not even sure I was thinking that much about it at the time. Basically I dropped the ball and needed to awaken quickly. Looking back much of this was predictable.
Her first marriage was for 14 years, produced her two children, and ended when her husband had an affair with one of her best friends. This is one of the reasons I'm so shocked over her seemingly out of character behavior. I've known her for 14 years and her personality seems different, the way she talks seems different, she doesn't seem nearly as empathetic as she usually was. Her 2nd husband was rough with her son and she dumped him like a bad habit quickly.
She has made it clear that she firmly believes our marriage is not salvageable and intends to file for divorce. In fact she plans to talk with an atty this week. So I guess I'm getting officially dumped. She says that she emotionally checked out around mid March, which interestingly was concurrent with an intensifying closeness with her septuagenarian guitar maestro friend. She claims that the former occurred at least three weeks before the latter crossed the line. I think there is a lot of grey area here that maybe she herself doesn't realize. She has quickly decided that she has found her gift from God who is the answer to her life's biggest question, one that she had thought had been answered throughout much of our years together. There is no doubt there always was a simpatico btw the two but she's acting like she's in a complete state of euphoria. Typically her nature is more level than this.
Because of COVID19 I'm not currently working full time. I do need to take the opportunity to get back in touch with my independent self, rediscover old interests, and try to get my mind off of this trauma that I never thought in a million years I'd have to deal with.
Thanks again Sandi2 for replying. I've only been here for a few weeks but I've noticed your input on other threads and am always interested in your thoughts.
9 days after moving out and getting settled in.
At some point last week my W, an RN, had a temperature and began a series of tests for the COVID19 virus necessary for a return to work. Her first test came back negative and there was a delay in the results of the 2nd. Ordinarily a cautious person with this sort of thing I was a bit surprised to hear the amount of traveling with the OM she's been doing over the last week around New England. I would doubt she would be getting close to people other than OM who doesn't seem concerned. I also heard that things with the OM are taking off crazy fast as they're talking about getting his & hers tattoos and thinking about selling their properties to buy a nicer waterfront home together. A year ago she wouldn't have had an interest in a tattoo as she always mentioned a preference for not wanting something permanent like that on her skin. The interest in real estate together only a month and a half in to this affair seems rash to say the least. It sounds like the two of them have completely lost their minds.
I wonder how long it will be before this burns out, if it ever does. How many rash decisions will be made that wouldn't have been made if she were not in some temporary state of mind divorced from reason? She seems like a completely different person from the one I knew and loved up until just two months ago. The few times I've talked with her on the phone (I don't call) it sounded like even her voice, and the inflections and cadence of her speech were different. Who is this person? Where the hell is my wife? I'm curious about the state of mind of the OM, a person who had been a friend, and had always seemed a decent enough man. I'm certain she is taking the lead and he's enjoying the ride, for now anyway. Having lost his wife to cancer a year ago he had been lonely and, I think, emotionally vulnerable. Looking back, her interest in him, even when it was only as a friend, seemed unnaturally excessive, almost maternal and protective in a way. I realize this now. I didn't at the time. I have to wonder if the craziness of all of this will give him a moment to stop and think. I'd guess if she perceives him as pulling back even in the slightest she will crash hard. Hard to believe, the same woman who was still emotionally invested in her marriage with me as recent as February while we were enjoying rum runners under a tiki cabana in Miami Beach, telling me how badly she wanted our marriage to work, that we had to work at it, and that she remained hopeful. Then again, I remember her also texting our friend, who was shark fishing off of the FL west coast at the time, wondering if he had caught the big one yet. Each day so much of what has happened comes into a better focus.
So, I had a nice discussion with Coach Chuck yesterday. He said Bob needs to take care of Bob. I need to immediately go to the Last Resort Technique, as ovennw mentioned last week. I need to lovingly DETACH! She needs to realize that her core belief that I can't change may not be true. She needs to know that some of my current activities are not consistent with what she would have expected.etc,etc.
I considered yesterday that I may not love the woman my wife is at the moment. I'm sad because I don't know where the woman I have known for 14 years is at the moment or if she even exists or will ever come back. I will always love that woman and feel bad that along the way I may have let her down. That said, not all of the mistakes that led to our disconnection were mine. But what's done is done, I can't change it, all I can do is look ahead. I really am not sure how patient I can be if things continue as they are now. I can already see where I may care less and less as time goes on without seeing any changes. I have my own life to live, and as Chuck said Bob needs to start taking care of Bob.
Bob,
I'm sorry you are here. You sound like you have a good grasp of what needs to be done at this point. My situation went fast. Divorced less than three months after BD. XW has been dating a guy for a year (who she was friends with previously, before me). I suspect they were privately dating before the divorce and maybe BD. I have been dating a woman who treats me much better than my XW near the end of our marriage for about 9 months. All I can say is that things do get better. It was an awakening for me. I am a better person, father, employee than I was before. I was coasting through life... taking things for granted. Use this time to better yourself. Lovingly detach. That was the key for me.
Bob,
I'm sorry you are here. You sound like you have a good grasp of what needs to be done at this point. My situation went fast. Divorced less than three months after BD. XW has been dating a guy for a year (who she was friends with previously, before me). I suspect they were privately dating before the divorce and maybe BD. I have been dating a woman who treats me much better than my XW near the end of our marriage for about 9 months. All I can say is that things do get better. It was an awakening for me. I am a better person, father, employee than I was before. I was coasting through life... taking things for granted. Use this time to better yourself. Lovingly detach. That was the key for me.
Thank You, Harvey
Yes I think I had become too comfortable myself and without realizing it had been taking things for granted. I look back over the last half year and wish I had listened to what my gut was telling me, but refused to believe because of how ridiculous it appeared to me on the surface. I feel like an fool. I'm disappointed as I believe if I had not been so trusting of both of them, and had firmly questioned some of the things that seemed off, I may have been able to nip this in the bud and restored love, trust and intimacy to the marriage. Maybe not. We live and learn. Everything is happening so fast it's difficult for my mind to absorb what's happening. MWD's book Divorce Remedy arrived yesterday, apparently, at least 6 months too late.
It appears my divorce will happen within three months of BD as well. It's going to be a challenge to adjust my mind from hoping for a shot at R to accepting the reality of what is staring me in the face and appears inevitable. It's hard to discard 14 years of shared history without a fight, but with such little time available my sitch seems impossible. So I'll try each day to muster up the energy and courage to lovingly detach and improve myself going forward. Thanks again for your nice and encouraging reply.
BobP,
I'm pretty new to this forum, so I don't have a lot of advice, just wanted to chime in on some of your thoughts, because I felt very similar at times.
My wife has said many of the same things your wife has said, and also made some attempts to discuss problems in our marriage prior to having an affair. I certainly did take her for granted and I will own up to my mistakes. I had many days where I was just so mad at myself.
However, it does not justify her having an affair, if she was that unhappy then she should have just left, or continue to try and work with me on the marriage. The problem is she did have an affair, and deep down I believe she knows it was not the right thing to do. So then she starts with the justification, saying all the same things your wife says, we weren't right for each other, etc. Anything to justify the guilt. So I've come to the realization that I can't continue to be mad at myself, the past is the past, I'm still hopeful we could build a new future, but I have to just be happy with myself and know I'm a good person that will continue to have a good life with our without her.
My wife also started looking for a home with affair partner, after only 7 months, and that's not even 7 months of seeing him full time. She is still married to me, he is still married, we own our home together. It makes no sense at all to be looking for a new home, and yet she is. She has also said she wants a divorce, seen a lawyer, etc, but here we are, 7 months and not divorced. So my point with that is, until she actually files the paperwork, it's just words. Keep following the advice of all the pros here and at a minimum you will come out of this a happy person ready to take on the future, but you might also come out of this saving your marriage.
BobP,
I'm pretty new to this forum, so I don't have a lot of advice, just wanted to chime in on some of your thoughts, because I felt very similar at times.
My wife has said many of the same things your wife has said, and also made some attempts to discuss problems in our marriage prior to having an affair. I certainly did take her for granted and I will own up to my mistakes. I had many days where I was just so mad at myself.
However, it does not justify her having an affair, if she was that unhappy then she should have just left, or continue to try and work with me on the marriage. The problem is she did have an affair, and deep down I believe she knows it was not the right thing to do. So then she starts with the justification, saying all the same things your wife says, we weren't right for each other, etc. Anything to justify the guilt. So I've come to the realization that I can't continue to be mad at myself, the past is the past, I'm still hopeful we could build a new future, but I have to just be happy with myself and know I'm a good person that will continue to have a good life with our without her.
My wife also started looking for a home with affair partner, after only 7 months, and that's not even 7 months of seeing him full time. She is still married to me, he is still married, we own our home together. It makes no sense at all to be looking for a new home, and yet she is. She has also said she wants a divorce, seen a lawyer, etc, but here we are, 7 months and not divorced. So my point with that is, until she actually files the paperwork, it's just words. Keep following the advice of all the pros here and at a minimum you will come out of this a happy person ready to take on the future, but you might also come out of this saving your marriage.
Jstrembr, yes a day hasn't gone by over the last 6 weeks where I haven't been incensed with myself for having dropped the ball. If I had been able to sense the true gravity of how bad things had become, how unhappy she really was, how lonely she must have felt, then perhaps we could have staved this off. I know myself to be a well-meaning and reasonable person who can be accessible. So why wasn't I as responsive as I needed to be to her concerns? I don't know. I ask myself that everyday. Maybe there are some inherent differences in the way the sexes interact, and unless if one is a natural, those who develop the good communication skills necessary to sustain a marriage have mindfully acquired them over time. So I shoulder much of the burden of my situation, but you're right, I need to remind myself that there was no justification for an EA which inevitably led to the PA. Like yourself, I believe she probably feels guilt deep down, but I truly doubt that in her current state of mind she is feeling any remorse. She sees me now as the central figure of a chapter of her life she has decided to put behind, one that had begun with hope but ended in unhappiness, one that she sees as beyond repair. Now she looks to the future feeling a guarantee of happiness with the OM, the heroic figure who rescued her from the prior chapter.
My W called me yesterday to let me know that she had talked with an atty and was optimistic that this could happen relatively soon. Our situation isn't going to be overly complicated re our assets. We have no children together. She owns the home. It wouldn't appear that I'm going to have the time to save the marriage. But as you said, I have all the time in the world to take on the future and become a happy person. My prayers that in time you can be successful in achieving a R with your W, and that the resulting relationship be happier and stronger than the one before.
Jstrembr, yes a day hasn't gone by over the last 6 weeks where I haven't been incensed with myself for having dropped the ball. If I had been able to sense the true gravity of how bad things had become, how unhappy she really was, how lonely she must have felt, then perhaps we could have staved this off. I know myself to be a well-meaning and reasonable person who can be accessible. So why wasn't I as responsive as I needed to be to her concerns? I don't know. I ask myself that everyday. Maybe there are some inherent differences in the way the sexes interact, and unless if one is a natural, those who develop the good communication skills necessary to sustain a marriage have mindfully acquired them over time. So I shoulder much of the burden of my situation, but you're right, I need to remind myself that there was no justification for an EA which inevitably led to the PA. Like yourself, I believe she probably feels guilt deep down, but I truly doubt that in her current state of mind she is feeling any remorse. She sees me now as the central figure of a chapter of her life she has decided to put behind, one that had begun with hope but ended in unhappiness, one that she sees as beyond repair. Now she looks to the future feeling a guarantee of happiness with the OM, the heroic figure who rescued her from the prior chapter.
My W called me yesterday to let me know that she had talked with an atty and was optimistic that this could happen relatively soon. Our situation isn't going to be overly complicated re our assets. We have no children together. She owns the home. It wouldn't appear that I'm going to have the time to save the marriage. But as you said, I have all the time in the world to take on the future and become a happy person. My prayers that in time you can be successful in achieving a R with your W, and that the resulting relationship be happier and stronger than the one before.
Hi Bob,
I'm sorry that things are moving so quickly, but I wanted to share with you some wisdom from my journey that you might find helpful.
I definitely went through - and still do - the wringer of guilt and remorse for things. I think everyone here has. But none of us are sociopaths, none of us actively sought to damage our relationships: we did the best we could. Hindsight is always 20/20, so I'd ask you to show some compassion for yourself and realize that in the same way that WAS re-write histories to be worse than they really were, LBS often re-write histories where they're much worse partners than they really were.
I can't speak for you, but for me this is about agency. It's another way of saying "If I shoulder the blame, and we agree that I'm at fault and what I did wrong, then if I fix it, we'll be OK! She'll see!" And while doing 180s on problem behavior and earnestly committing towards self-growth are the right things to do, please make sure that you're doing so for the right reasons. Nothing is in control other than how we live on our lives.
I suspect that the pace in which she's moving towards D will slow down. Call it a hunch. I'm not a veteran on here like some, but I've read enough stories to know that when the time comes to really confront the gravity of the situation and sign on the dotted line, it's not so easy.
Hi SteveS,
Thanks for the reply. The re-writing of our history has been the most baffling aspect of all of this for me. It's been the most emotionally painful. We were together for 14 years and decided to get married 2 1/2 years ago. We were in the middle of a prolonged positive cycle at the time, feeling good about ourselves and our relationship which had withstood some challenging times. We recognized we were each other's best friend and significant other and had been each other's invaluable support through family tragedies and life events for over a decade. I think we saw one another as the one person we knew we could always count on to be there. So today when she tells people that our marriage was a mistake and that she asks herself everyday why she did it, I'm flabbergasted, left to wonder if we're living in alternate realities, and hurt to my core. Can I ever trust anyone else ever again? Will I ever be able to feel secure in a relationship ever again? Can I ever know for certain the love and trust we appear to have as axiomatic is actual reality or just my imagination? 6 1/2 weeks since BD and I'm still in a place I never thought I'd ever be. And everything is happening so fast with breakneck speed. It's tough to absorb everything both emotionally and intellectually.
I do need to have compassion for myself. I know my first instinct is to blame myself. Another instinct is to roll up my sleeves and fix whatever the problems are. It's frustrating knowing that the opportunity to do so isn't going to be there because of her current state of mind which may not ever change. I think I know what I need to do, and that's to try to move on and work on myself for myself. I can't control what her perceptions are and what her feelings are at this time. I moved out. She's free to do whatever. I'm leaving her alone. I'll try to get detached, but man, that will be tough.
Yesterday was the first day I saw my W since the day I moved out on Mother's Day May 10th. I swung by to pick up our dog who I'll have for the next week. The transfer probably didn't last any longer than 3 or 4 minutes which was good considering how raw my feelings have been. There was no weirdness, both of us were upbeat and friendly yet in a somewhat coolish kind of way. The talk was only about the dog, then we both seemed in an anxious competition to see who would finish the talking first, which I would say was probably a tie.
There was definitely a sense of more distance between us, more so than on the day I left when there was still some remnants of past habits re the way we talked with one another and came into contact. The OM is there constantly. When she's not working they're doing something together. Apparently they're looking at buying waterfront property together. No doubt there is a tighter connection between the two of them then there was even two weeks ago. Whether what they have is for real or just a fantasy I don't know. As I know them both I can say there is no doubt they have much in common and their musical efforts being in the same band can definitely tighten their bond. It's just mind boggling for me the speed in which everything is happening. Just 2 1/2 months ago there was still evidence of at least some emotional investment on her part toward our marriage.
Having the dog this week should be good therapy. I need something to help jar me from this funk. People ask me how I'm doing and I'll offer the "I'm hanging in there", "Doing the best I can", or "Well I've been better but I'll be okay". The truth is I've never known a feeling of crappiness like this before which I can't even begin to explain. I'm sure everyone here knows what I mean. I feel absolutely gutted. I know I need to GAL. Today I'll take the dog for a nice hike. Being out in nature can sometimes be rejuvenating.
Hugs! The exchange must have been hard.
Dogs have a way of healing our souls.
Enjoy your time with your 4 legged friend on that hike today!
Yesterday was the first day I saw my W since the day I moved out on Mother's Day May 10th. I swung by to pick up our dog who I'll have for the next week. The transfer probably didn't last any longer than 3 or 4 minutes which was good considering how raw my feelings have been. There was no weirdness, both of us were upbeat and friendly yet in a somewhat coolish kind of way. The talk was only about the dog, then we both seemed in an anxious competition to see who would finish the talking first, which I would say was probably a tie.
There was definitely a sense of more distance between us, more so than on the day I left when there was still some remnants of past habits re the way we talked with one another and came into contact. The OM is there constantly. When she's not working they're doing something together. Apparently they're looking at buying waterfront property together. No doubt there is a tighter connection between the two of them then there was even two weeks ago. Whether what they have is for real or just a fantasy I don't know. As I know them both I can say there is no doubt they have much in common and their musical efforts being in the same band can definitely tighten their bond. It's just mind boggling for me the speed in which everything is happening. Just 2 1/2 months ago there was still evidence of at least some emotional investment on her part toward our marriage.
Having the dog this week should be good therapy. I need something to help jar me from this funk. People ask me how I'm doing and I'll offer the "I'm hanging in there", "Doing the best I can", or "Well I've been better but I'll be okay". The truth is I've never known a feeling of crappiness like this before which I can't even begin to explain. I'm sure everyone here knows what I mean. I feel absolutely gutted. I know I need to GAL. Today I'll take the dog for a nice hike. Being out in nature can sometimes be rejuvenating.
Bob, you seem disappointed that there wasn't more of a conversation on the pick up of the dog. I would suggest that your goals should be to pick the dog up with no words at all! Hi. Thank you. at a maximum.
Also, lots of focus on her and what she is doing in paragraph 2. I want to know what Bob is going to do to get himself out of the "feeling of crappiness". That is on you, not her. People around us make crappy decisions, that's on them. How we let it affect us and our life is on us. Yes, there should be a period where you mourn the loss of your relationship. But look at your sitch. You are on your own. She has moved OM in. You need to grab your bootstrings, pick yourself up off teh ground, and go get that awesome life that you so deserve!! These things can paralyze you for a long time if you let it. I let my ex-GF paralyze me for nearly 20 years. Definitely a good 12 years, before I realized that I deserved better and went out in search of it!
The would you received was not your doing. But doing what it takes to close that wound and heal certainly is!
Not much new to report. I've been reaching out to friends, and old friends, and getting caught up with them. Many are surprised at what's happened, always stating how happy we had seemed together. I guess this is probably a common response. I've been taking brisk walks in the mornings and trying to get my mind off things by reengaging with my interests, including some that I hadn't been involved with for years. I'm spending a lot of time trying to envision what my future life is going to be like, and how things in time might not be so bad and that I might actually feel freedom and happiness with the next chapter of my life.
Had to meet up with the W the other day for a dog transfer and to briefly talk about our taxes and what to do with the government stimulus debit card that arrived with both our names on it. We botched up where we were supposed to meet which added more tension to the get together than what should have been necessary. She's even more different now, only three weeks after my moving out, than she was during the five weeks between BD and moving out. Decidedly distant and for the first time ever, wielding a hard to hide feeling of what seemed like contempt.
I left the meeting feeling like this is a completely different person than the one I had been with for the past 14 years. Seeing her like that makes it easier to let go and to say to heck with all of this. If this is what she's become why would I ever be interested again? I wish I could say I'm at a point where it didn't bother me at all, but getting to that point is going to take a long time. It was only several months ago when she was still acting like a wife, though things were definitely stirring behind the scenes and below the surface more than I realized at the time. Man do I wish I had realized the severity of the upcoming storm during the second half of last year. In the interest of harmony I didn't address the apparent unhappiness as seriously as I should have thinking it would just go away and work itself out like it had during prior negative cycles. Bad Mistake! Not a mistake I'll ever make again. I'll always believe that this marriage was salvageable, and could have been immensely improved for both of us, if only I hadn't been so conflict avoidant. Too late now.
I'm still going through a grieving process just two months since BD. I'm trying my best to snap out of it by GALing, as mentioned earlier. When considering denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance, I'd say right now the anger is probably where I'm at more than the others. I don't know if they're suppose to go in that order or if they're felt with a lot of overlap, each one intensifying at times, subsiding, then coming back. It's going to be rough, I still love and miss the woman I knew ( I don't love the one I saw the other day), I was never as close to anyone as I had been with her for all that time, but I have no choice but to move forward and try to weather this storm the best I can. I wish I could just turn a switch and I'd instantly be Detached, but I realize it's a process and I'll get there in time.
Bob,
Let us know how it's going.
-Spiral
If this is what she's become why would I ever be interested again?
I'm a newby and maybe not yet cynical enough, but what I took from this statement is that you need to assess which person is real. Could she have been faking it for 14 years or is she faking it now as an emotional defense? I would think the latter. In which case, its a good person doing a bad thing. Happens all the time. Welcome to humanity.
I think that if you ignore her acting then the acting becomes wearisome, natural human laziness takes over, her real nature reasserts, and eventually the person you knew will re-materialize.
In the meantime, figure out if the person you knew is worthy of the person you are becoming.
Spiral - Nothing really new. My sitch has similarities to yours. I think you recently described yours as having occurred " suddenly and definitively". From my own experience events seemingly came at me from out of nowhere turning my life inside out in a heartbeat leaving me with an initial feeling of confusion and desperation. I think you've done much better than I have in processing the reality of what has happened in such a short period of time. I think it's admirable how well you've comported yourself during this unexpected and difficult time.
There are things I know now that I wished I had known the beginning of April. On the top of that list is the fact that once a WAS decides it's time for BD, it's over, done, they're already emotionally divorced and much further from our reach than we realize at the time. They've already advanced into their next life, the one they think guarantees the happiness they feel they've been deprived of, and have no intentions of looking back and feeling any sense of sentimentality or nostalgia for the previous life and particularly for its central figure. During the five weeks I continued living under the same roof with her after BD I would have been better served if I had realized how true this is.
Oddly enough during those five weeks I also was on the receiving end of some ILYs, as well as occasional hugs, and kisses on the head. I wish I dealt with it as intelligently as you recently did. I simply don't get the psychology behind what's happening during those moments.
I'm doing my best to GAL. I'm putting into place both short term and long term goals. I know I need to detach and that it's probably more important than anything as the D is probably going to happen fast and knowing the two of them as I do they'll probably be engaged in no time. I understand what it is I need to do. It's going to be challenging, but all things worth while are.
Shane - I'm a newby, too. Over the last two and a half months I've experienced the kind of emotional pain I never thought I'd experience with the possible exception of a loved one's passing. I've definitely learned some tough lessons from which I intend to use to improve myself as a person and as a potential partner as I MO into my future life.
I realize even today, despite the bitterness I feel at the moment, that my STBXW is a fundamentally decent human being. I think that when WASs/WWs are in this current state of mind they can become extremely cold hearted toward the one they've left, thus revealing a side to themselves not like anything we've seen from them before.
I do wonder, however, if the experience of becoming unhappy within a marriage and with the S, becoming so full of anger and resentment while simultaneously bridging over to the next life and a OM with no time in between, crossing a line in the process that she herself could not have seen herself crossing in the past, violating her own principles and moral compass while doing so, may not result in at least some alteration to their character on a permanent basis. I don't know the answer. It probably varies from person to person.
Spiral - Nothing really new. My sitch has similarities to yours. I think you recently described yours as having occurred " suddenly and definitively". From my own experience events seemingly came at me from out of nowhere turning my life inside out in a heartbeat leaving me with an initial feeling of confusion and desperation. I think you've done much better than I have in processing the reality of what has happened in such a short period of time. I think it's admirable how well you've comported yourself during this unexpected and difficult time.
There are things I know now that I wished I had known the beginning of April. On the top of that list is the fact that once a WAS decides it's time for BD, it's over, done, they're already emotionally divorced and much further from our reach than we realize at the time. They've already advanced into their next life, the one they think guarantees the happiness they feel they've been deprived of, and have no intentions of looking back and feeling any sense of sentimentality or nostalgia for the previous life and particularly for its central figure. During the five weeks I continued living under the same roof with her after BD I would have been better served if I had realized how true this is.
Oddly enough during those five weeks I also was on the receiving end of some ILYs, as well as occasional hugs, and kisses on the head. I wish I dealt with it as intelligently as you recently did. I simply don't get the psychology behind what's happening during those moments.
I'm doing my best to GAL. I'm putting into place both short term and long term goals. I know I need to detach and that it's probably more important than anything as the D is probably going to happen fast and knowing the two of them as I do they'll probably be engaged in no time. I understand what it is I need to do. It's going to be challenging, but all things worth while are.
Shane - I'm a newby, too. Over the last two and a half months I've experienced the kind of emotional pain I never thought I'd experience with the possible exception of a loved one's passing. I've definitely learned some tough lessons from which I intend to use to improve myself as a person and as a potential partner as I MO into my future life.
I realize even today, despite the bitterness I feel at the moment, that my STBXW is a fundamentally decent human being. I think that when WASs/WWs are in this current state of mind they can become extremely cold hearted toward the one they've left, thus revealing a side to themselves not like anything we've seen from them before.
I do wonder, however, if the experience of becoming unhappy within a marriage and with the S, becoming so full of anger and resentment while simultaneously bridging over to the next life and a OM with no time in between, crossing a line in the process that she herself could not have seen herself crossing in the past, violating her own principles and moral compass while doing so, may not result in at least some alteration to their character on a permanent basis. I don't know the answer. It probably varies from person to person.
BobP, interesting thought. But be aware. Who she was in the past. Who she might be in the future, none of that matters. You have to deal with the person she is RIGHT NOW. sandi's rules say "She is not the girl you married." We as LBHs struggle with this. Who she was 2, 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago does not matter. Who she is today is a WAW, and a WW, and a lying cheater. Deal with that. When you get caught up in who she was, and who she may be down the line, it clouds your judgement. I know, I was there.
"Not the girl I married" would seem an understatement. I think the dopamine high has staged a coup d'état on her brain.
I had been having a better last few days. Then she called this morning to discuss some details of the D. She mentioned also that she was going to start renting out her home and move in with the OM, and then the plan is to buy a home together along the Long Island Sound before the end of the year. When I moved out on Mother's Day it was to give the two of us space, and of course deep down I was still holding on to a feeling of hope. I wish in my mind it had been more along the lines of letting her go.
As recently as February we were in Florida on vacation seemingly enjoying a nice vacation together as husband and wife. I remember conversing with a friendly Uber driver and my W digging her nails into my arm because she thought I was flirting with her, which I was not. At the time I was put off by the jealousy, but now I look back at the moment almost with nostalgia as I would have to think there was at least some emotional investment on her part toward our marriage. February still seems recent to me.
Then in March she emotionally checks out, which I wasn't yet aware of. She gets real close to her band mate and then the EA turns into a PA pretty fast. The bomb drops on April 6th. I move out 5 weeks later on May 10th. And today she confirms that they're going to be buying a home together. This just seems all so fast. Is this typical of the MLC, or WAW, or WW mind set? I almost said why don't the two of you wait a year before making such a move so early on but that would have seemed self-serving and it's really not any of my business. She can do what she wants. The speed of all of this just seems crazy to me and it's hard for me to process everything that has happened over the last few months.
Detachment can't come soon enough for me.
Detachment doesn't "come", it is sought after.
Bob,
Looking for a status report. Hope all is calm.
-Spiral
Bob,
Looking for a status report. Hope all is calm.
-Spiral
It's calm but certainly not easy. There really isn't much new to report. The fact is my marriage is going to end and for the most part I've come to accept that reality. What's more important is that I get myself to a place where I can live peacefully with this, forgive myself for not having been more aware of the severity of our problems back when there might have still been a chance to save the marriage, and to move forward and live a happy life. I think this is where DBing can help, and man I'm trying, but at about 3 months post BD it still isn't easy. I don't think I've had a night where I've been able to sleep more than five hours since the morning of BD day.
I'm still hear everyday, following with interest anywhere from fifteen to twenty threads each with their own unique sitch. These aren't people I know but in a way I feel I know them as I root for them with compassion as they try to contend with some extraordinary challenges. I learn from their cases, and especially from the advice offered them from a few of the vets like LH19, Sandi2 & Steve85, who graciously share their time and wisdom with others in an effort to help folks they don't know personally regain their lives in the face of some extraordinary, and often times traumatic, circumstances.
I wish I was as natural at this as you are, Spiral. A week ago my W sent me a text that I almost saw as patronizing and infantilizing, though maybe that's on me and reflective of my own current state of mind.
"Bob, it may be too soon to write this, I am sorry things got so screwed up!!! I should have caught what was happening between you and I a long time ago!! You are smart, kind, empathetic and I only want the best for you. You will always have a special place in my heart. I want you to be happy!! You deserve it!!!! I got complacent in our relationship and just took things for granted the way they were. At the end I started hating myself for I knew I shouldn't have felt frustrated because I was part of the problem! I miss your family!! I just wanted to take a moment and tell you how I felt and I know it wasn't all your fault, I was probably more to blame. You will always be very special to me!"
Yeah it's over. Sometimes I think I'd feel better if I were hated by her but still respected. At this time she's questioning why we had even been together in the first place. Well it had been fourteen years so I would think at least at some point something was working right. Later that same day we had to meet to exchange some things and she volunteered to me that she had just returned from her first therapy session. She stated that our marriage was a main topic of discussion. Like with any relationship we had our issues, but my own memory tells me that throughout most of it there existed a mutually supportive element to it from which we both benefitted. Perhaps she remembers it differently. One thing is for certain, we sure as heck weren't communicating effectively over the last year or two. She was frustrated and rather than express it in a constructive way it usually came in the form of snide remarks and dramatic flair ups. When she was like that I typically stonewalled and tried to weather the storm hoping to maintain harmony, figuring we'd get to it when she could be more civil. Big Mistake! So, same old story, conflict avoidance, mostly on my end, killed us. I think I need to have NMMNG shot straight into my veins.
I'm glad you're doing as well as can be expected during this challenging time, Spiral. Like yours, my own sitch has seemingly happened with breathtaking speed. For me it just makes it a bit tougher to process all of this. Entering into 2020 I could have never expected this is what was going to happen to us, and yet, that's probably a pretty good indication for why it did. So I move forward, GAL, 180s and work on detachment. I'll get there.
Hi Bob,
Sorry it was so soon over. Your wife did not give you the gift of time.
As for sleeping 5hrs per night, most people need 6-7 hours. What have you tried? When I was struggling, I shifted to being a consistent early morning (dawn) riser. I find daylight hours when you can be out and about easier to fill productively than late night hours. I also use asleep app called Pzizz when I expect sleep trouble. I’ll admit to alcohol (wine) some nights to sleep, but moderate exercise like a jog a few hours earlier worked much better and costs less. Audiobooks and textbooks help me, too.
Well, she sent the text because she wanted to send it and it is about making herself feel better. So, don't take it personally. That's the point of DBing. Don't read into any of what she does. You might be right. You might be wrong. But you never know and it doesn't matter.
As for forgiving yourself for not being more aware of the severity of your marriage's problem, there's no sense in looking back on things. It doesn't help and we all make mistakes. And I'm not sure that the problems were unresolvable before OM came onto the scene. In my sitch, we were doing fine a year before BD. Things started to go downhill toward the end of the year and I think that OM coming onto the scene was a big part of that. I bet it is also true in your sitch. Of course, none of that matters either. Just now and tomorrow.
As for conflict avoidance, I made that mistake too and it isn't always NMMMNG. In a marriage with love, folks don't want to fight and they put conflicts aside in order to keep the peace. But I haven't read NMMMNG.
Thanks for the update!
Well it's been 288 days since last posting here, last Independence Day to be exact. My time here had been brief and was in the immediate wake of Bomb Drop, a difficult time in which I was trying to cope with the shock and betrayal, hoping to better understand just what the heck had happened over the previous year or two while trying to see if there was even the slightest chance, or hope, of reconnecting with my W. After having been here for a few months, tracking other people's sitches, some consultation with a DB coach and reading with interest what the vets had to say, it quickly became clear there wasn't going to be any getting back together with the W anytime soon or probably ever. Man was I naive.
If there was one thing I wish I had realized to be as axiomatic as the sun rising in the East and setting in the West prior to BD day is that when a WAS informs an unsuspecting spouse of their intent to file for divorce and, "oh by the way there's someone else and I wasn't really out running errands today like I told you I was going to do but I was actually at OM's place", they are SO FAR GONE already, SO Emotionally Checked Out and divorced from that spouse and probably have been for quite a while, that the only logical response for the poor LBS at that precise moment is to probably say "well, sorry it's come to this, I wish you every happiness, it's been a great so many number of years, give my best to OM, but I'm outta here, like NOW!" Then disappear, make yourself conspicuously scarce and visit your lawyer. Well, it's fun to fantasize about another course of action I could have taken at that moment, and of course I write this in jest as I'm pretty certain it rarely ever goes down like this. The other thing is we didn't have children together and I can't imagine being so cavalier when that's the case as their well-being would have been foremost in my mind. But I sometimes wonder what might have been different if I had been expecting it and better prepared rather than making many of the typical mistakes made by unsuspecting LBSs, in house, for five miserable destructive weeks. We live and learn I suppose.
The 2nd half of 2020 was better. I began to sleep more than four or five hours a night and my appetite slowly came back. GAL is tougher during the era of social distancing but I reached out to many of my friends from the past who I had neglected for far too long during the marriage. It was good for the soul to reconnect with them, talk about old times and to make plans to do things later on once it's more safe for everyone to do so. The 2nd half of the year was political season so I was involved with that. I started to read more. I was anxious to start to experiencing a life that was outside the context of the one I had known for the previous 14 years where everything seemed to revolve around the relationship with W. I was anxious to see and feel that there is another life out there waiting and it can be good, maybe even less stressful and quite fulfilling and enjoyable. I started to get involved with some of the activities of my past, a few that W had either been hostile to or simply didn't relate to. I made up my mind that I was going to get back in touch with CORE Bob. Maybe I'll get back out on a golf course this summer and see how many sand bunkers I can find after not having had the sticks out for almost ten years. I still have a ways to go, especially in terms of detachment. I've read up on it. I think I have a better understanding now than I did before about what it actually is. I'm often reminded of Steve talking about self-differentiation in relationships. But I'll admit it, lovingly detaching from this person has been one of the most challenging things I've attempted. I'll always love the woman I once knew and married. I still miss her but I try not to think about it. Strangely enough I just don't think she exists anymore.
And speaking of her she and the paramour have sold their respective properties and have purchased waterfront property on Long Island Sound along the CT coast. When she and her lawyer brought this up I almost asked her when exactly in 2018 or 2019 did the two of them start planning on this course of action. I know when Waywards and their special friends hop on the Dopamine Express to Fantasy Land they can act like they've known each other all their lives and make rash life decisions, and why not seeing that they finally found their "soulmates who get them like no other ever has"?, but the speed in which she's zoomed off is stunning, so it makes me, and others, wonder. We don't communicate much except for when we have no choice like to discuss taxes, some other items of business, and brief pleasant exchanges during the transfers of our Golden Retriever. Brief, pleasant in a borderline coolish & indifferent way, and I'm always the first to say "take it easy" and go. One of the friends I've been back in touch with told me he and his wife know of at least 10 other couples over the last two years that are splitting, all blindsided, and all involving a spouse that flipped. As an old-fashioned kind of guy who believes in the institution of marriage I find it kind of depressing. Divorce seems all the rage I guess. Fewer and fewer want to make the commitment and put in the work. Marriage almost seems like a crapshoot these days. And we think we know someone, but do we really know them? I don't know, all I know is I'm committed to living a happy life and I'm going to keep working on it. Maybe some day I'll even be glad this all happened and think it was for the best.
I'm not here often, at least not here writing, so I want to thank those who reached out to me last year to offer a perfect stranger help during a truly awful, confusing and challenging time. I could list quite a few but I may forget some, and I want to particularly thank SteveLH aka Steve85, whose advice and words helped me see the only course I had available to me at the time. It took a while for it all to sink in but I think it finally did.
I can totally relate to what you are saying Bob. My XH was engaged and a new home owner within seven months of BD...and we do have kids... kids that he introduced OW to three months before BD. So to answer your question... no, I don’t think we ever really truly know someone. Like your XW, the person my XH was when I married him, no longer exists. You are lucky, in some ways, that you didn’t have kids as you are able to move forward and have very little, if any contact with your X. I think that helps with the healing process. Having said that, time is a great healer regardless. In my sitch, XH has been super reasonable with the business end of our split so we have been able to establish a pretty positive co-parenting situation. And OW is very good to my kids so I think we are doing as well as we possibly can given the circumstances. XH was over at my house yesterday dropping some planters off (he and OW have bought me out of my share of the home I co-own with his mom so are moving in once they sell their home and pay me) and we had a funny, lighthearted conversation about our kids and the logistics of the move(s). It was nice and bodes well for our kids that we are in that place. Three years ago, I would have never predicted that and yet here we are. Life is good. And in a weird way, I AM glad that it happened because the life I lead now would have never happened if it hadn’t. It’s not the life I planned but it may turn out to be an even better one. I hope yours does too. (((HUGS)))
BobP,
I remember reading your sitch on here during during the worst of mine (before I even started posting myself) and remember thinking it so odd your W is dating someone 20 years her elder. Can't imagine it's going to work out between the two of them in the long run. Sorry she turned your life upside down in the process, but glad to hear you're doing better than 6 months ago, and I hope things will continue to improve in your life.
I can totally relate to what you are saying Bob. My XH was engaged and a new home owner within seven months of BD...and we do have kids... kids that he introduced OW to three months before BD. So to answer your question... no, I don’t think we ever really truly know someone. Like your XW, the person my XH was when I married him, no longer exists. You are lucky, in some ways, that you didn’t have kids as you are able to move forward and have very little, if any contact with your X. I think that helps with the healing process. Having said that, time is a great healer regardless. In my sitch, XH has been super reasonable with the business end of our split so we have been able to establish a pretty positive co-parenting situation. And OW is very good to my kids so I think we are doing as well as we possibly can given the circumstances. XH was over at my house yesterday dropping some planters off (he and OW have bought me out of my share of the home I co-own with his mom so are moving in once they sell their home and pay me) and we had a funny, lighthearted conversation about our kids and the logistics of the move(s). It was nice and bodes well for our kids that we are in that place. Three years ago, I would have never predicted that and yet here we are. Life is good. And in a weird way, I AM glad that it happened because the life I lead now would have never happened if it hadn’t. It’s not the life I planned but it may turn out to be an even better one. I hope yours does too. (((HUGS)))
Thank you DejaVu6,
You're right, my path forward is an easier one than the one others must contend with because we didn't have children together. In fact I remember thinking last year how easy I had it compared to others here because of this, I was like "what are you complaining about, Bob? You have it easy compared to others, there are no kids, just move on and get her out of your life completely." I can't begin to imagine how difficult it is feeling powerless to keep the family together when the other spouse wants out, while seeing the kids denied the same family structure I feel I benefited from while growing up. But I know of situations where things are so toxic between the parents it's undoubtedly for the better and the kids seem to be doing excellent. And like you said, other than the sharing of our dog over the next several years there really isn't any other reason for us to remain in touch which can help with the healing process.
I'm happy things are amicable between you and your XH in regard to the co-parenting situation. In several years I hope I can be in the same place you are, almost glad things happened the way they did because you're so content with your life as it is now. That's the place I'm trying to get to and I just need to keep putting in the work. At least now I can begin to see a path to it. Thanks again and take care.
BobP,
I remember reading your sitch on here during during the worst of mine (before I even started posting myself) and remember thinking it so odd your W is dating someone 20 years her elder. Can't imagine it's going to work out between the two of them in the long run. Sorry she turned your life upside down in the process, but glad to hear you're doing better than 6 months ago, and I hope things will continue to improve in your life.
Thanks BL42, yes actually he's 17 years her senior. I think this is why when my gut was trying to tell me things during the preceding months leading to BD my brain would shut it down and rationalize things. We both had felt bad for him because of the recent loss of his wife to cancer just two weeks shy of what would have been their 50th wedding anniversary. So we had spent a lot of time with him. But there was always this inordinate glimmer she seemed to experience when we were with him and I should have been more alarmed than I was. The age difference definitely threw me off. I knew she admired him and also liked the way he played a wicked guitar, but it was hard for me to believe the "admiration" would have led to an affair. Female friends and relatives assured told me they could see themselves connecting with someone who represented a wide age gap, especially if there were common interests and temperaments. They also worked together as members of a three person band that's out in many area restaurants and clubs. Given the additional fact we were going through a negative cycle in our own relationship, I definitely should have been more vigilant.
Hope things are going well for you, BL42.
BobP, thank you for coming back and providing an update. Sorry you had to go through this, but it is inspiring to see how well you doing. You're future is bright, still fully ahead of you, and in your complete control to go out and seize ahold of! I feel you'll do exactly that.
Excellent, words of wisdom Bob.
It's hard, but what is given easily has little value.
I hope you truly learn from this and keep those lessons with you forever.
I hope to visit the northeast at some point, in the summer of course, and experience your homeland.
Also, I'm going to jump on your bandwagon as well and say thank you to Steve for being such a giving person. Steve you are a blessing my man and so is this whole place.
BobP,
I noticed you online and read back a bit to refresh myself on your story. How about an update? How's life been this past year?
Hi BL, I'm doing well.
I'm glad you appear to be doing well also.
You and I were going through our initial stages of this ordeal at around the same time, back around the Spring/Summer of 2020. Seems like ages ago, doesn't it?
It's good to see you here helping others, sharing your hard-earned wisdom & offering advice.
When BD arrives it really turns us inside out, it's hard to make sense of anything. The not eating, the not sleeping, the constantly trying to figure out just what the heck went wrong and how I couldn't have seen it when in hindsight it should have been as clear as day, the overwhelming feeling of dread that comes from no longer feeling in control of one's life. We live our lives with assumptions, and in my case one of those assumptions was that her and I would be together until one of us kicked the bucket. Best not to assume these things. Lesson very much learned. Those first few days, weeks, months after BD, when one is first coming to terms with the shock and what seems like betrayal, are awfully rough, and it's hard to think straight. That's why it's good to have a place to come to and meet some friends who have been through it as well, who can share with you their own sitch, can relate to what it is you're experiencing, and assure you that, in time, it does get better.
So, this month it's been two years since BD, and one year since the divorce becoming final.
I still have my moments from time to time, but they're much less frequent.
I've gotten better at forcing myself to focus on something else when I feel it coming back.
I'll always wish that it didn't end the way it did. Maybe there were some sides to her to which I was blind. I know perfectly well I'm far from perfect and there were many things I should have done better. But I think several months after BD I stopped beating myself up, and by the end of the summer of 2020 I realized I was going to be okay, but that it was going to be a gradual thing, and GAL was a little tougher during a pandemic but certainly not impossible.
She's not a bad person. She's done a lot to help people over the years and often places the interests of others before her own. But I also know now that I would never have any interest in reconciling with someone who would treat me with that kind of disrespect. Oh, in the immediate wake of BD getting control of my life back was all I could think about. But there comes a time when the finality of it finally sinks in. It wasn't really that bad. It was almost a relief. It was like I was no longer burdened. And over time, it's not just the WASs who may lose the feeling, sometimes the LBSs do too. We too can flip that switch and say, you know what, I don't really think it's there anymore. That said, I understand each sitch is different and in some cases it may still be worth it to try, especially when they're are children.
When I see some of the more recent sitches, it's amazing how much commonality there is wrt the behavior of WASs. The kind of behavior which seems so much out of character at the time. "Who is this person? Where the he!# is my wife? Heck, even her voice sounds like she's transformed into a different person. Is she on medication which has radically changed her personality?" They're addicted I guess, and the LBS is an impediment to the fix and will be treated by that once special someone, that same someone who once loved them, with contempt.
Hope you're doing well, BL.
I think it's awesome you're helping those who have been through what we've been through.
BobP,
I appreciate the update. You come across as calm, peaceful, and quite reflective which is great for your growth - newbies should read your latest update and understand they'll be alright even if they don't reconcile.
Sorry for asking if you'd rather not sure, but do you know what happened with ExW and OM? I'm curious, especially considering the significant age difference. And do you still see the dog?
What have you done over the past year GAL-wise? Are you dating?
Glad to hear all is well...
BL42,
Apologies for getting back to you a little late.
So to answer your questions:
About XW & OM, well those two crazy kids are going to be tying the knot later on today up in New Hampshire. He's 74. She's 56. I'd be lying if I told you it's not on my mind but it's not bothering me as much as it would have say a year or two back. I'm ok and I have plans for later in the day which I intend to enjoy come hell or high water.
You know, two years ago when I was reading all I could on the topic of affairs, the different types, brain chemicals, betrayal trauma, "limerance" lol, and all the rest of that stuff I remember reading that only 5%, if I remember correctly, of affairs end up in marriage, and of those only 25% will continue on. Pretty bleak statistics for the unfaithful. Maybe it's because of my own experience, but I have a hard time believing those numbers. I know of other instances of marriages that were born out of extra marital affairs and they've been going strong for years and there's every indication they will continue to do so. In a few of those cases the WAS wasn't even all that unhappy prior to leaving the LBS. They simply met someone else they felt was more appropriate for them, had more in common with, and could be even happier with in the long run. In my own case there were some issues that weren't being addressed. That's on both of us, and in looking back, I really did need to be more aware of the direction we were heading rather than simply assuming it was just another bad patch we'd get by as we had before. We were both avoidant and always tried to maintain harmony within our confines but man, that volcanic pressure does build up and when the volcano erupts it gets pretty ugly. Unexpectedly so if you're like I was. My bad. We live and learn, my friend. It's important I own my own $&@% in this. Her and I did not have children together. I admittedly have a hard time taking a cavalier attitude on this when we're talking about a young couple with children. I can't say I'm a big fan of cheaters when what they're doing will lead to the break up of what was otherwise a healthy functioning family supportive of the kids. I know each case is unique and maybe some marriages should end.
Detachment. Is there really anything more important than that in dealing with this kind of thing? Probably not. I know I'm closer to it. I know I don't feel in love with her. I know I'd never take her back if the opportunity was there... and believe me it won't be. I'm not even attracted to her anymore. When I look at her I feel an almost visceral feeling of disgust. But if I were detached would I feel that way, or would I feel more indifferent? Undoubtably the latter. BL, when the anger has totally dissipated I'll know I'm where I need to be. Anger has been the toughest part of this for me. And I'm not known as someone with anger issues. But the way this happened I've felt it like I never had before. And I'm angry at myself for being so oblivious to what was happening right in front of my face. Angry at myself for wussing out so badly in the initial weeks while I was in complete denial.
I was hoping our friend Spiral would get back. We all started this thing around the first half of 2020. Hope he's doing good. That dude was born with a dominant DB gene and came across to me as a MAN firmly grounded in his own sense of masculine self-respect. I know nothing of his XW's OM but I always thought it was possible she made a life decision she could possibly regret later.
The dog? She's right here by my feet waiting for her breakfast. She says Hi by the way, haha. The dog is all I really talk to XW about these days as the dog's been having some minor health issues as she gets older. XW likes to act like the whole world is one happy family and everyone, including me, should be in constant celebration over how the universe now makes perfect sense seeing that her and OM have rightfully come together, and why not, it's only in the natural order of things. She tries to talk to me about lots of things and I just steer the conversation back to the dog. But I'm pleasant. I do try to be brief. I don't know how I'll feel about her ten years from now. Maybe by then I would have been completely detached for years and would even be able to find it in my heart to forgive her. We did have some good years.
Dating? I'm not interested in it at the moment. Really don't feel like I'm there. I have a friend I've known for over thirty years who was at one time the girlfriend of a friend. We talk from time to time and go out to dinner every now and then. She likes to send me silly texts over current events that always crack me up and sometimes make my day. I always thought of her as one of my closest friends. I'd be at a loss if I lost that friendship. I'm very reluctant to do anything that might hurt the friendship which I value very much.
Take care, BL
About XW & OM, well those two crazy kids are going to be tying the knot later on today up in New Hampshire. I'd be lying if I told you it's not on my mind but it's not bothering me as much as it would have say a year or two back. I'm ok and I have plans for later in the day which I intend to enjoy come hell or high water.
Wow. Quite the day. Hope you enjoyed the hell out of your plans. GAL is always key in these sitches. I remember when my first LTR (HS/College sweethearts, 8-9yrs) was set to get married in town to the guy she met towards the end of our relationship I made sure to fly across the country to visit friends to avoid any possibility of accidentally crossing paths with the event.
She's going to feel much differently about this guy (or at least her situation) in a few, or maybe 5-10 years.
I remember reading that only 5%, if I remember correctly, of affairs end up in marriage, and of those only 25% will continue on. Pretty bleak statistics for the unfaithful. Maybe it's because of my own experience, but I have a hard time believing those numbers. I know of other instances of marriages that were born out of extra marital affairs and they've been going strong for years and there's every indication they will continue to do so.
I agree. I know instances where the marriage with the AP has lasted quite awhile. My first LTR is an example, though maybe not technically an affair certainly a quick rebound while talking to me. Another is my ExMIl and ExSFIL who tore up my ExW's family. Also, interesting timing on your observation because I just saw this in another thread:
It’s been 4 years and eggman isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. Of course I hoped and prayed my ex’s affair partner would go away. They just celebrated their 11th wedding anniversary in April.
I do have a fear my ExW and OM2 will last a long time or perhaps forever. I know we should be detached and not have a care in the world, but there is a prideful validation if they break apart ("it wasn't us after all" kind of thing. Also, I think for me it's a lot to do with two young children and the father v. potential step father contention. E.g., I don't want to walk my daughter down the aisle with another man, or have dual father /daughter dances. Also, maybe it's viewing things through our own experiences or biases, and they're never as good as they appear from our LBS vantage point.
In my own case there were some issues that weren't being addressed. That's on both of us, and in looking back, I really did need to be more aware of the direction we were heading rather than simply assuming it was just another bad patch we'd get by as we had before. We were both avoidant and always tried to maintain harmony within our confines but man, that volcanic pressure does build up and when the volcano erupts it gets pretty ugly. Unexpectedly so if you're like I was. My bad. We live and learn, my friend. It's important I own my own $&@% in this.
This is insightful and shows a mature self-reflection. Good for you for being honest with yourself.
I admittedly have a hard time taking a cavalier attitude on this when we're talking about a young couple with children. I can't say I'm a big fan of cheaters when what they're doing will lead to the break up of what was otherwise a healthy functioning family supportive of the kids.
Definitely a lot harder and more complicated with young children; doesn't mean it's easy without them.
But if I were detached would I feel that way, or would I feel more indifferent? Undoubtably the latter.
You've made a lot of progress. It's a process as my IC told me.
Anger has been the toughest part of this for me. And I'm not known as someone with anger issues. But the way this happened I've felt it like I never had before.
I hear you.
I was hoping our friend Spiral would get back. We all started this thing around the first half of 2020. Hope he's doing good. That dude was born with a dominant DB gene and came across to me as a MAN firmly grounded in his own sense of masculine self-respect. I know nothing of his XW's OM but I always thought it was possible she made a life decision she could possibly regret later.
Agreed. He recently commented on some Newcomers, but it's been awhile for his own - would be nice to hear from him.
XW likes to act like the whole world is one happy family and everyone, including me, should be in constant celebration over how the universe now makes perfect sense seeing that her and OM have rightfully come together, and why not, it's only in the natural order of things.
Seems like a lot of them do, but it's pretty self-centered and oblivious to the damage they've done - maybe it's a function of how they glossed over issues in the relationship as well...until it blew.
Dating? I'm not interested in it at the moment. Really don't feel like I'm there.
Fair enough.
You too, BobP. Definitely wishing you all the best.
if I remember correctly, of affairs end up in marriage, and of those only 25% will continue on
The most commonly cited educated guesses are F.Pittman's that 75% of marriages that begin as affair end in divorce, vs. J.Baker's that 67% 2nd marriages end in divorce.
Pessimistic for everyone.
On a brighter note, the CDC says if you remarry AND both partners are 25+ at the time, irrespective of how it began there's a 2 out of 3 chance you'll be married ten years later.
Bob,
I have a hard time believing those numbers too. I've tried to keep track of the DB Class of 2020. That wasn't our experience.
Spiral
Bob/Spiral,
I have a hard time believing those numbers too. I've tried to keep track of the DB Class of 2020. That wasn't our experience.
Agreed. Perhaps the Class of 2020 is too fresh for analysis, but despite the affair/divorce stats, there are plenty of stories here on the board and I know enough people in real life who have lasted many years even decades with the affair partners to make me question the numbers.
The statistics show that relationships that began as affairs have a fairly low chance of long-term success. And yes, the class of 2020 is way too early to determine this.
Another statistic that bears this out is the divorce rate for 2nd and 3rd marriages. They go up with each subsequent marriage. Not a 1 to 1 statistic as there are a lot of factors, but some percentage of those are marriages that resulted from affairs.
I truly believe the old adage "If they will cheat with you, they will cheat on you." And then there is the "that which starts in lies and deception rarely results in long-term success".
Anecdotally, I know a couple of marriages that are into multiple decades that started as an affair. But those are few and fair between compared to the number of folks that I know of that cheated on their spouses and ended up not staying with the AP.