Part 2:
Part 2Very short recap:
Me: 34
STBXW: 30
D:5 D:3
Mini bd: May/June 2019
Married: Aug 2019
BD: 6th Dec 2019
Christmas sucked!
January was a lot of chaos
Feb
-Finally had enough and changed my mindset
-Understanding DB for real and getting more control. GAL etc
-I told the kids about situation late February.
-Wife admitted seeing OM. A colleague from work.
March
-Working on DB and detachment
-Corona starts
-I filed for D.
Now.
-She is living 50% with OM, other 50% in our house. I am living in the house 100%.
Last two posts:
MeJust met wife after being away for Easter.
Said hi, she opened for a hug.
Me-How are you?
W-I'm ok, I'm good. (Then I saw she was sad. Close to crying)
W-It feels strange and tough to see you now.
I went to say hi to kids who were still sitting in the car.
After having talked to the kids...
Me-Do you want to talk?
W-I don't know. Maybe. Do you?
Me-Well not now.
Silence.
Me-I guess you are off then? My tone turned. Look at her less.
I said good bye. Saw she was sad.
Didn't look at her leaving
She needed comfort but I didn't give it.
M,
Kind of a weird exchange.
You ask her if she wants to talk (big no no BTW)
She kind of hints that she does and you say “not now” but don’t put the ball in her court as to when this could happen.
Then you go cold on her.
I definitely wouldn’t of handled it that way.
Thanks for replying LH!
Agree it was weird, it is hard the times when I see her 5 minutes in a week.
So many feelings. I had just read the "Newcomer with WW" threads again and had anger inside.
I regretted asking if she wants to talk, immediately after. On the other hand it gave me a hint that she isnt sure about herself.
Stupid not to give her a time/date to talk!
You think I should suggest it? She knows we will see each other later this week when she has the kids again.
Update:
W is really strange...
As those of you who follow me know I repainted D5's room a few weeks back.
Now she had painted D2's room.
She had also bought new socks for kids, which I also did last week (So there was no need for more).
Its like she is following my moves to not be "worse" or something.
Typical W she also did a half-ass job with painting so there are spots on the floor and some places need more paint...
Also she apparently used my pants when painting and got some paint on them...
IT is water-based and can probably be clean but WTF?
Anyway. Would appreciate some input on how to move forward giving the strange exchange earlier today and if I should tell her she needs to clean my pants or just do it myself and tell her not to use them again.
I get the feeling that you are kind of an a$$hole. Who gives a rat's a$$ about friggin pair of pants. Let it go. And durn the a$$hole dial waaaay down.
Thanks for the perspective on the pants Vapo.
I am not an a$$hole. Ask anyone of my friends. I am actually more NGS.
Always described as kind.
I was listening to her yesterday but lost track when I realized she was heading right off to OM.
Sometimes I have a hard time sorting and putting perspective on everything that I have read lately.
Just found packaging of a butt-blug in the trash. Just lying there for me to see.
Very frustrating!!
There is also dots of paint all over the floor that someone (she expecting me?) needs to clean...
I need to mentally leave her!
Time can change things, but for the forseable future I must leave her.
I get the feeling that you are kind of an a$$hole. Who gives a rat's a$$ about friggin pair of pants. Let it go. And durn the a$$hole dial waaaay down.
Bit harsh really - I would be pretty miffed if my WW messed up the carpet, my clothes and half fudged the paintwork. I'm very house proud and wouldnt want paint on my carpet or spotty walls - never mind on my clothes - Ok Mumin doesnt state if they were good clothes or not, but its dis respectful of the WW to mess up his clothes.. Hardly makes him an a$$hole in my opnion for not wanting his house or clothes ruined.
Thanks for more perspective mrbr.
The pants are functional sports wear so I only have one pair and not cheap.
But they are still not that important.
However just went by the hardware store and the the guy said "good luck" on the floors.
D2 has propably walked around with paint on her foot, it's in 3 of our rooms...
So will have to discuss this with W. Will have to be handled if we intend to sell the house.
Mumin, I hate to break this to you, but the paint on your pants and the carpet are the least of your problems right now.
Your W is cheating and cake eating and you found butt plugs. And you are worried about some paint?
I know you probably feel like this is all you can control right now, but you really have some bigger fish to fry
On phone.
I am fully aware of that Ginger. POST D I have been mainly using DB for Journaling.
This paint thing though had to be handled it not something I can work on for weeks/months.
Other things:
Picked up golfing during easter
Working out 3 times a week, plus small things at home
Reading and working on my NGS
Working on activities to always feel and be the best me with my IC
Trying to fully understand validation (this is hardest).
Figuring out where to live if we sell house (placed kids in queue to two other elementary schools)
Figuring out how to finance house if W agrees to lower valuation
Etc
Or did you have other things in mind?
Plase Vapo and ginger be a bit more specific.
These contents are great for perspectivev(thank you!) but please fill in if you have anything specific in mind.
Need to focus on yourself and your goal. It’s about improving ourselves to get into a better version. A Mumin 2.0 model.
Keep reading Cadet’s welcome post links. Main answers are there.
Keep walking.
Fair point neffer thank you! IT is time I read them again, what is a bit weird though is a lot of the things are for ppl that are before D. I need to sort in my head what is appropriate now.
Any tips on readings post D? Already have a few member-threads I am reading.
Anyway, an update:
After thinking about it I decided the butt-plug thing was crossing the line for me atp.
So I sent her a picture of the trash and wrote, "Im sure you can be more discreet than this."
She first answered. Yes I get that, but maybe you shouldnt be sending me a picture of it to showme.
Then she wrote:
But yea I get it.
I apologize....
I haven't replied and probably wont.
M,
Come on man you are better then that. What type of reaction were you trying to get?
If you haven’t already read “How to be a 3% man” by Corey Wayne.
Lots of work to do
Thanks LH!
Today I simply felt this was just not something I tolerate and in fact I wanted that exact reaction.
A tip my IC gave me is to (in practically any situation in life that impacts me) ask myself "Am I ok with this?".
I am not ok with seeing sex toys.
Other example: Neither am I ok with my boss giving me a lower bonus than expected. So I said something.
Old me would have let it slide and just said "ok". NGS...
Conforming (using word correct?) and accommodating to others, has happened WAY too much in my life.
Wife and sitch aside, this question has been the strongest tool for me to self-improve so far.
Will order that book today! Thank you!
Will also go back to Cadets post and read though everything again.
Yo M I get it in general about standing up for what you believe in and having boundaries and such. What happens if you go in there tomorrow and there’s more BPs in the garbage?
Thanks LH. IF that happens the only card I have to play is selling the house or her moving to a rental.
Which is what she wants any ways.
I dont want to encourage things to go that fast, but if she decides to spread sex toys around here then I would be happy for a shorter timeline. That's simply a line/boundary for me.
Really.
M,
Again I understand where you’re coming from and you surely don’t need props for the mental movies. She’s been open about her BF, you filed for divorce so I guess I don’t see where you think all of a sudden she should consider your feelings. You getting but hurt about it (no pun intended) changes nothing.
When someone in your life disrespects you and doesn’t care about your feelings, you remove them from your life.
You cannot control the actions of your W, only your actions. She could be hauling lorries full of sex toys and you can't do a thing about it. If you try to enforce boundaries, you better make sure you can follow through, otherwise it is only going to make you look weak.
Second thing. You do you figure you would be able to sell the house from under your W's a$$? Is she not also the owner? I think you are overly simplifying matters.
No more Mr. Nice guy is an awesome read. I also found reading Models by Mark Manson. At first glnace it looks like a pick-up book, but it goes much deeper.
Just found packaging of a butt-blug in the trash. Just lying there for me to see.
Ouch, that's harsh.
"Im sure you can be more discreet than this."
I see nothing "wrong" with asking her to please be more discreet, if you think your feelings matter to her. It sounds like you've realized you can't control this, since your stick (selling sooner) is a carrot to her.
After having talked to the kids...
Me-Do you want to talk?
W-I don't know. Maybe. Do you?
Me-Well not now.
As for how you could've ended this, it's strange to ask if she wants to talk, and when she says maybe, to indicate you don't want to. ::shrug:: "I've got a few minutes." or ::shrug:: "I'm free after seven."
On phone.
Thanks for the post CW. Read your recent updates. Congrats!
Totally agree it was weird/stupid to not give her an inroad after she said she might want to talk.
Right now I wouldn't want to face her though. The Sex toy thing needs some time to process.
Having dinner with brother and his GF tonight.
Spent last with brother and his GF, had a great time!
This morning while still in bed W called but I didnt pick up.
Like 2 hrs later she writes that if she calls it will be about the kids.
Sure doesnt want to speak to me...
Anyway, apparently the ppl at daycare want to have a sitdown with both of us and tell us what they have observed and to understand more about our plan forward.
I basically answered "thats good".
Then she wrote that apparently D5 has been not so active and spending mroe time alone at daycare and D2 has been having more mood swings.
This makes me both very sad and angry to hear. After some time talking to my brother yesterday I felt much better given the recent sex toy thing but new things keep coming up.
As mentioned post D will be a rough time...
Of course this was going to happen with the kids but I thought it would come later.
Not sure what I should say to W tonight when we meet.
Will be hard to not be angry given these 2 recent things so I will need to prepare my "stance" on things.
"It is good that the personell is taking this seriously and want to be prepared/involved. I can meet with them at X, Y Z times..."
If she asks how do you feel about this. "Its really a shame that they have to go through this. Not soemthing I ever wanted for them"
If she brings up the sex toy. "I dont want to hear any more about that. Be more discreet."
Yo M,
I think “this is difficult for everyone” is a better response”.
Thanks LH!
More updates later. Had a phone call with my IC.
He is almost certain W i manodepressive/ bi-polar (which also her mom is).
Oh gosh Mumin, I read about the sex toy part and I am so sorry that you had to see that. That goes on top of the list of craziest things I've read here so far.
I hope your daughters will be okay. Kids are usually more resilient than we think they are.
Will be hard to not be angry given these 2 recent things so I will need to prepare my "stance" on things.
this sounds like you're ready to fight. If you're going in thinking that it will be hard to not be angry, most likely you will be angry. Be a gray rock. You don't need to fight, just figure out what's best for your daughters.
Thanks wooba I am sitting here working and mentally preparing to be a grey rock
Will probably turn into talk on boundaries if sex toy comes up tonight.
That goes on top of the list of craziest things I've read here so far.
My IC said the same thing. "Roughest thing I have ever heard".
Just spoke to W. Bit of a non DB-dialogue (except that it is a huge 180 for me to take this conflict):
Basically said this:
You have a new boyfriend.
We live in this house together. We are not yet separated. (physically)
Do you think its ok that I find remaining of sex toy order?
W - No, of course not.
Me - Also, so I am clear. It is not ok for OM to ever set his foot in this house. It is not ok for him to meet the kids before you have talked to me.
W - He would never do that. He doesn't want to meet the kids.
W - What do you want to know.
Me - I dont want to know anything. I am just making sure you know how I view things.
Me - So when did daycare want to meet us?
W - Lets write instead (messaging).
Then she went out to the cabin.
I don’t know M seems like you’re beating a dead horse.
What if you come home tomorrow and OM is in house with 10 sex toys?
Like 2 hrs later she writes that if she calls it will be about the kids.
Sure doesnt want to speak to me...
Don't worry about it. The WW is use to controlling her nice-guy H with anger. She has trained him to walk on egg shells, in fear of making her mad.
Anyway, apparently the ppl at daycare want to have a sitdown with both of us and tell us what they have observed and to understand more about our plan forward.
I basically answered "thats good".
I would think they would have separate conferences for parents who are separated. They might not, if it hasn't been requested.
Then she wrote that apparently D5 has been not so active and spending mroe time alone at daycare and D2 has been having more mood swings.
Children that young may not understand what is going on between their parents, but even babies sense anger and other negative emotions at home.
Of course this was going to happen with the kids but I thought it would come later.
Not sure what I should say to W tonight when we meet.
Will be hard to not be angry given these 2 recent things so I will need to prepare my "stance" on things.
And......why are you meeting to talk? What's to say that couldn't be said in a text?
If she asks how do you feel about this.
She knows how you feel, so I doubt she'll ask. However, if she's that stupid, I think you should not say anything.......and just stare a long, hard look at her. Believe me, this is all game playing on her part.
Short update and a question:
ZERO communication except for ONE good morning for 5 out of 4 days.
Consulted a lawyer on the asset list, will need to do some work here. Student loans etc..
Wife just wrote that SIL is coming over today... (As am FYI)
I will actually be meeting up with a friend so might not be a "problem" but she might end up sleeping over.
Not sure how to handle this... Not very keen on meeting her right now.
Should I even answer?
I'd just say OK. Let them hang out, it's not like you can stop it (and why would you anyways?). Be cordial but not nosy. Go about your business. Don't get drawn into to big talks or arguments.
Thanks ovr! That will be my approach.
Nice to see you back on my thread btw
What struck me is she might spend the night.
Not sure how I would handle an argument about who sleeps where..
Will primarily avoid argument though.
Just remember it's your house and your bed, you wouldn't go to someone's house and expect to sleep in their bed. No need to argue about it either.
What struck me is she might spend the night.
Not sure how I would handle an argument about who sleeps where..
Will primarily avoid argument though.
(sigh.......) Wish I had a nickle every time I read this scenario from an emotionally attached H.
Lol Sandi! Thanks for a good laugh.
Just remember it's your house and your bed, you wouldn't go to someone's house and expect to sleep in their bed. No need to argue about it either.
This! Thanks ovr, this got me back to the right mindset.
Didn't really matter tonight but still very good advice that gave me confidence.
SIL wasn't here when I got home. So now saying good night from my own comfy bed.
On to a new great day in this new reality! Spring and soon summer!
Hi agian,
Anyone have a good perspective/experience or tips when it comes to "mind-movies".
Almost every day that she isnt home I keep envisoning W and OM having sex, sometimes several times a day.
Finding traces of a butt plug sure hasn't helped...
Doing laundry for "the family" including all her new thongs also doesn't help...
Been considering to split the laundry. Till now we have just but it in two piles (white & colo) as per usual.
Hi agian,
Anyone have a good perspective/experience or tips when it comes to "mind-movies".
Force yourself to think about something else. Kids, jobs, chores that need to be done, a movie you wanna see or have seen. For me acknowledging that I’m doing it and immediately thinking about something else normally distracts me long enough for the “other thoughts” to pass naturally. And take away anything that might trigger that. If doing her laundry triggers those thoughts, buy an extra hamper for yourself and let her know she’s on her own. Or you can just let hers pile up til she gets the hint hers needs to be done.
Hi everyone!
Short update and 2 questions.
I played golf for the third time this season today, that's definitely a record. Uually I play less than 3 times per season.
Went so-so but had a great time. Also, less mind movies but I think that is mostly bc I know she is with the kids this weekend.
Work has picked up this past week and I find it a bit hard to focus when working from home. Especially now that I have taken it upon myself (mostly because I want to) to do all household chores 1-2 times per week. (W does way less atm)
We basically haven't spoken to eachother at all this week but when we do its like we have this weird vibe.
I am a bit neglecting I guess. She tries to sound nice and make conversation. But I really don't want to and am a bit angry at her still. Do you think I should try to stay positive/neutral towards her? Rather than a bit avoidant and neglecting..
So the main question.
In just over a week D2 is turning 3.
Given Corona there wont be a party but I have invited her best friend to come over (with one parent) if they are healthy.
Still haven't told W about it since it is my weekend with the kids and since Corona nothing is for sure.
Considering telling W that we will have a bit of a birthday party for D2 on Sunday. Not really sure what I want but what is best for D2 goes first in this case. We all do still live in the same house.
How do you think I should approach this? Should I even tell her?
Also, my sister might come as well and W MOS DEF will not want to face her.
Definately tell her. She might have strong feelings regarding the issue. Furthermore I do not thinkj you should be inviting anyone during this quarantine. That is the point and purpose of a quarantine. Social distancing means exactly that. No social contacts outside the immediate family.
I don’t know what social distancing means in other Areas of the country, by in mine there is absolutely no party guests, especially where kids are involved. My daughters best friend turns 13 today and yesterday we all did a drive by happy birthday and dropped gifts on the lawn.
Maybe social distancing means something different in other areas of this country, IDK. But if it does mean the same thing by you, you shouldn’t have anyone over, especially others kids. And if you insist, you should definitely tell you W.
It’s a tough call honestly. I completely understand your want to have a normal as possible bday party for your D, but at the same time you don’t want your W to use that against you and claim you put your D in jeopardy by not respecting the guidelines of your state. Idk where you live but if there is a stay at home order, you could have that used against you.
And yes I know I took my kids to my brothers, but for me my out is on the edge of his property is a river. And fishing is encouraged in our state.
Mumin is in a country that isn't locked down.
I'd tell her. Your sister should be there if you want her to, if it makes your W uncomfortable then oh well.
Well if you’re not on lock down, my apologies for assuming. And absolutely have that party and invite your sister. Enjoy the day the best you can with your D
I apologize as well. You mentioned corona as the reason not to have a party, so I assumed you were
I agree with the others that you should coordinate this with your W. Even if your country isn't on lockdown, your W may have strong feelings about not having anyone over due to Covid. Sit down with her and say "I was planning XYZ but wanted to check with you first to see what you think". It's the respectful thing to do, and I think even despite your situation she would appreciate that.
Thanks a bunch everyone for giving you thoughts!
Vapo, Ginger, AS, Joseph, Ovr (welcome back to my thread:)) Huge thanks!
It is incredible to have all this support and REALLY helps me continuously!
I will tell W on Wednesday when I see her again.
As mentioned we are not in a COMPLETE lockdown. Thanks ovr
Some restrictions apply though. So, for instance daycare IS open so D2 meets her best friend all the time anyway (= no added risk). However I don't meet my sister and her family every week atm so I will probably schedule something separate with them. Naturally if someone is sick within a family then none of them can come.
Update/Journal:
Personally I have been feeling pretty good and stable. Most downs are WAY less severe as 2-3 weeks back and cant even compare to 2-3 months back.
Since it was W's weekend with the kids we did talk a few times. Mostly short and about kids but some things are maybe worth noting or remembering for later.
She asked quite a lot about what I had been up to since I wasnt home most of the time.
Basically just told her the truth but with not so much details.
Saturday night before bed she also was wondering where I had spent friday night (slept at a friends place since I was going to help him with some DIY)
She asked what my family thinks?They know whats going on but not everything.
First I didnt answer because I got a bit angry.
Eventually (she asked repeatedly) I said:
I dont know what they are thinking, but I think they are mostly wondering. They dont understand and wonder what happend?
My brother and partly also sister are furious and I was very close to telling her that, but didnt.
This morning:
I had to go with them in the car when she was taking them to daycare because I needed the car to do some grocery shopping. After she sat in the car for a while waiting for her bus. Apparently the kids got real sad when she was leaving them.
We ere mostly quiet but then she skipped the first bus (they leave every 5-10 min for the city where I dropped her off)
I realized she was feeling low and saw her in the mirror and just suddenly said she was beautiful.
I know, wrong. But I just felt it and flt she needed to hear it... Lame and stupid in hindsight after everything shes put me through... However I want to point out I didnt say it in a needy way.
Anyway this convo followed:
W - Thank you! How are you? (She was close to crying)
Me - Mostly good but it's up and down. Kills me that kids are feeling it.
Silence.
Me - Do you have something you want to say?
W - No. Or we'll. A lot...
Me - I have a few minutes.
W - I guess life isnt as black and white as I thought.
Me - No life is mostly in the grey area. (Smiling. She laughed a bit.)
Silence.
Me - Either you get out of the car or we go sit down somewhere.
Silence
W - What are you thinking about?
Me - I can listen but will have a hard time talking when you have that bag next to you. (her "luggage" for living at OM's place)
W - Mmm..
Slience
W - I guess I will go.
Me - Ok.
We said goodbye and I didnt get out of the car. Just drove away.
She keeps wanting to open up in some way. Not sure what it is though.
Might just be that she needs a shoulder to lean/cry on since shes feeling bad.
IF I knew thats what it was I wouldn't allow it.
Thoughts what was said?
M,
This is the second time you have sort of got yourself into a relationship talk. If you want to do it then just do it and get it over with for closure. She probably feels some guilt for breaking up a 6 month marriage. Just be prepared that it’s most likely going to be all the things you did wrong.
I would have either not told her what I did and remained mysterious or flat out lied and said you went out with some friends. She is sniffing around a little bit and that is good.
You saying that you were just at your brother's place makes you sound like a solid plan b when she should be wondering what you're up to and who you are out with. The only time I would say I was at my brother's place is if I knew she wouldn't believe it in order to make her wonder.
Don't pry, she'll speak when and if she is ready. I know you want this big talk where she jumps back into your arms but you won't be the one to initiate that.
Making a comment on her bag is not detachment either. Detachment is so vital to this. It's hard to see why but you need to read and absorb that part.
I would have either not told her what I did and remained mysterious or flat out lied and said you went out with some friends. She is sniffing around a little bit and that is good.
You saying that you were just at your brother's place makes you sound like a solid plan b when she should be wondering what you're up to and who you are out with. The only time I would say I was at my brother's place is if I knew she wouldn't believe it in order to make her wonder.
Don't pry, she'll speak when and if she is ready. I know you want this big talk where she jumps back into your arms but you won't be the one to initiate that.
Making a comment on her bag is not detachment either. Detachment is so vital to this. It's hard to see why but you need to read and absorb that part.
Anyway this convo followed:
W - Thank you! How are you? (She was close to crying)
Me - Mostly good but it's up and down. Kills me that kids are feeling it.
Silence.
Me - Do you have something you want to say?. Let her take the lead. She'll either continue talking, or she'll leave.
W - No. Or we'll. A lot...
Me - I have a few minutes. Don't be so eager to show you are available. Just sit there calmly & silently, giving her plenty of rope to lead the conversation.
W - I guess life isnt as black and white as I thought.
Me - No life is mostly in the grey area. (Smiling. She laughed a bit.)
Silence.
Me - Either you get out of the car or we go sit down somewhere. If a few minutes has passed and she hasn't attempted to say anymore, then you should say something like, "Okay, well, I need to be going". Otherwise, it sounds a bit pushy to get her to talk.
Silence
W - What are you thinking about? WARNING! She doesn't want to reveal anything about herself. She wants, first, to feel out your thoughts/feelings. Don't reveal anything.
Me - I can listen but will have a hard time talking when you have that bag next to you. (her "luggage" for living at OM's place)
W - Mmm..
Slience
W - I guess I will go.
Me - Ok.
Mumin, when your W gets serious, she will approach you about reconciliation. You won't have to fish around trying to get her to talk. I can tell by the above quote that you still want to make it too easy for her, and that's not a good thing. You need to say very, very little if/when these type of talks spring up. You cannot tell her your thoughts, when she is sitting there closed mouthed. For goodness sake, be a little mysterious. If she's ready do to the right thing, she'll speak up and tell you. Otherwise, she's just checking to see if you are still sitting on the back burner. If she says she's having second thoughts, or asks what you think about reconciling, then you can tell her you'll have to think about it.....(especially, if you've heard no apology or she shows no remorse and humility). You could follow by saying, "It's not that simple anymore", and tell her she would have to agree to to some terms before you would consider it. If she
does appear to be genuinely remorseful, humble, and has apologized for the destruction she brought.......and if she asks what would she have to do to make it work, that's when you tell her the terms of reconciliation. NC with OM....
ever! Transparency, MC, etc. There can be no going soft-melty-cheese-man. And remember, the cheater doesn't get to call the terms of reconciliation. Understand?
When she said something about life isn't as black & white as she thought, it hinted that maybe everything isn't so peachy, and maybe......just
maybe, her eyes are slightly seeing a little reality from her choices. Maybe she can see the pain in her children. Whether or not she accepts responsibility for their pain, may be in the distant future.
When my fantasy crashed, it felt as if it hit all at once. However, little cracks had been forming. I can look back and see how there was a build up, where I started seeing little things through tiny slit eyes ......but I didn't want to
believe it, b/c I wanted the fantasy. One by one, dominoes started falling, until the main event hit and my eyes were opened and the fantasy fog was gone. I want LBH's to note......
Nothing had been resolved at that point. I still had choices to make. I had to face the fallout I had caused. I had to end my A and go through the withdraws. I had to make amends with my H. I had to go through a lot of work on myself, and on my MR.
I believe timing is crucial, b/c she has to be able to start seeing reality and realize how stupid she's been. It's a process she has to go through, if she's going to find her real self. Your job at this point, is hold the line and stop trying to be so helpful in lifting the fog for her. I really don't think it works when the H is trying to usher her out of the fog, and I see how it could backfire on him.......b/c of her unresolved resentment.
In the meantime, I wouldn't make any further references about the OM or A..........like the way you pointed out the bag sitting between you. Don't ask her personal questions, and don't
answer personal questions from her. There is more required from her before you give her the answers she wants to hear. You have to let her work to get you back again. It's something she needs to do. So many eager H's rob their WW of that process, instead of making her work. Are you following what I'm saying? If not, please ask me questions.
Thank you Ovr, LH and Sandi.
All GOOD Advice!
I will definitely avoid these types of talks unless she expressively says she wants or is ready to.
I have strong doubts she is anywhere near a Rec or is having regrets. Probably some second thoughts though.
I have been feeling a lot more detached lately but it is true I must continue to ACTIVELY work on it, thanks for reminder Ovr!
Also thanks for the tips on not sharing details on what I have done while away.
Oh Sandi! You are a saint for writing all this. I can tell you how much this post means to me!
Both great timing and really clearing some things up for me how to act and how she may be feeling!
THAAANK YOU!
Especially this "Don't be so eager to show you are available. Just sit there calmly & silently, giving her plenty of rope to lead the conversation."
I am way better at allowing silence but in a way silence feels weak. At least in the midst of things.
I have read A LOT of your advice to others so hence already have my list of terms if (that's a HUGE if) she ever comes around. She will have to go NC with OM which means quit her job. For one!
She would have to really get to work on her self. For a long time.
When it comes to staying mysterious and not answering questions. What do you think are some good alternative answers??
Apart from lying. Usually I am bad at lying if I haven't prepared.
Update:
This week got a bit strange. At least practically.
On Wednesday W was supposed to pick up the kids have them for two days (at home).
In the morning W wrote and said she was feeling slow, had coughed and probably had fever.
Eventually I suggested that she should come home because I had made plans for the weekend to celebrate D2's birthday. She agreed it was the best.
So I have been alone with the kids all week and haven't seen W since Monday morning.
Also, I said if she has been feeling well for a few days she is still welcome on Sunday to celebrate.
We had a bit more contact than usual to settle all this and I also asked her the day after how she was feeling.
Thanks for all the sweet things you said. I appreciate it, and it encourages me.
When it comes to staying mysterious and not answering questions. What do you think are some good alternative answer??
I got a little tickled when I read this. The point I was trying to make in my previous post, is that you can be a little mysterious just by not being so free or eager to express your thoughts to her, and by not implying you have time if she wants to talk.
If she says something, don't be quick to jump in there to direct her. Just be cool,
relaxed, and let her
wait to see if you are going to guide the conversation, as you usually do. To me, it seemed pretty obvious what you were trying to get her to talk about. It was like watching a scene, and you were the director.
I think I said something previously how some WW's will try to fish out how the H feels, first. If the H can give an answer without getting too wordy.....or linking it with their situation, then the better chances of her saying more. For example, looking back on the conversation with her in the car.
W - Thank you! How are you? (She was close to crying)
Me - Mostly good but it's up and down. Kills me that kids are feeling it.
Silence.
Me - Do you have something you want to say?[/i
It would have been better if your response had been limited to "Mostly good". By continuing, your implications jumped right to the sitch, and the part about the kids......sounded as if you were trying to lay guilt as her feet.
After you said it kills you about the kids, silence fell. Then you proceeded to prompt her. Next time, don't ask leading questions. Be comfortable with the silence, or at least, try to play the part of being comfortable.
[i]Me - Do you have something you want to say?
W - No. Or we'll. A lot...
Me - I have a few minutes.
LOL, did you cut her off to tell her you had a few minutes? (You're beginning to remind me of myself.)
W - I guess life isnt as black and white as I thought.
Me - No life is mostly in the grey area. (Smiling. She laughed a bit.)
Silence.
Me - Either you get out of the car or we go sit down somewhere.
Well, no pressure there!
Is she normally very quiet, and you normally take over the conversation? This sounds like a version of the conversations in my own house........only it's my H who is the quiet one, and I have to put duct tape across my mouth to keep me from jumping in too quickly with too many words.
Silence
W - What are you thinking about?
Me - I can listen but will have a hard time talking when you have that bag next to you. (her "luggage" for living at OM's place)
W - Mmm..
Slience
W - I guess I will go.
Me - Ok.When she asked what were you thinking about, I think you could have just looked through the window, as if you were
thinking about something way off.......but don't say anything. Let there be silence. Don't look angry or upset.
You definitely weren't cool with your response. Instead of trying to pressure her, it would have been much better to have appeared calm, cool, & collected. After a couple of minutes of silence and she doesn't say anything.......I would have said something like, "I need to be going"......or however you would usually indicate leaving.
Now, these are not examples of cool answers..... like Fonzie's cool dialect (if you know the Fonz.) My point in this particular dialog is that you keep a "cool" presence, but not a cold shoulder type of coldness. Do you know the difference, or understand what I mean? It's a balance of keeping your eagerness under wraps, and appearing calm and maybe a tad distant.......
(b/c the woman is living with her lover 50% of the time, and living at home the rest of the time.) If she wants to know what you are thinking or how you are feeling.......she's going to have to WORK to find out. Don't try to assist her along in the dialog. Don't press her. Don't ask her leading questions. Sit there with your sunglasses on and looking like your favorite celebrity.
(jk)
Apart from lying. Usually I am bad at lying if I haven't prepared.
Oh no, don't lie to her. I can talk about other ways to be mysterious, in another post. Getting a personal life that doesn't include your WW is the best way to be mysterious. That is, if you put duct tape over your mouth and not blab all the details to her. Details for a woman is answering all the "W" questions...... who, what, where, & when. She especially wants to know the "who". More about that in a later post.
**************************************************************************
Update:
This week got a bit strange. At least practically.
On Wednesday W was supposed to pick up the kids have them for two days (at home).
In the morning W wrote and said she was feeling slow, had coughed and probably had fever.
Eventually I suggested that she should come home because I had made plans for the weekend to celebrate D2's birthday. She agreed it was the best.
So I have been alone with the kids all week and haven't seen W since Monday morning.
Also, I said if she has been feeling well for a few days she is still welcome on Sunday to celebrate.
We had a bit more contact than usual to settle all this and I also asked her the day after how she was feeling.
Okay, I guess you need to spell it out for me. Why does this appear more strange than anything else in your marital sitch?
Once again, your advice is priceless! Thank you so much for taking your time!
If you have any invincible duct tap that would be fkn Awesome!
I have always had to drag her through any type of serious talk.
she's going to have to WORK to find out. Don't try to assist her along in the dialog. Don't press her. Don't ask her leading questions. Sit there with your sunglasses on and looking like your favorite celebrity.
This! As well as not using too much words! Thanks!
My point in this particular dialog is that you keep a "cool" presence, but not a cold shoulder type of coldness. Do you know the difference, or understand what I mean?
Thanks! Yes I get it. For me this is important because when I DO mentally detach it often makes me a bit cold. Finding the balance now and for future endeavors is important.
She especially wants to know the "who".
Yes this was really obvious last weekend.
Okay, I guess you need to spell it out for me. Why does this appear more strange than anything else in your marital sitch?
Haha thanks for the pointer.
What I did feel this weekend though was a bit sadness for my D2 that mom wasn't around on her birthday party.
I actually asked W again on Saturday but she said she was still feeling sick. But might as well have been she wanted to avoid the social gathering and its risk of questions and shame.
D2 seemed to have a blast though! Tomorrow she turns 2 for real!
So much love!
OH, and I have heard of the Fonz but dont know him. Will have to look it up!
First, THANK YOU to every single person on this board! This community is amazing!
Second short journaling
Slept at my brothers place last night, needed some space and to get a good night sleep (D3 wakes up 3-4 times per night and that often wakes D5 up as well).
Just finishing the work day and will eat dinner with my brother and then go home.
W just messaged, "What will you do today?" (wants to know if I am sleeping at home tonight).
Just read the notification and wont open the message (its Messenger so if I open it she can see if I have read it or not)
Annoying that she just keeps asking this.
I will answer her in a couple of hours.
Also had a good discussion a with bank around mortgage the other day!
Mumin,
can you bring us up to speed on the sleepovers at your brother's house? It's because he lives in town and when you go that way it's pretty far to get home?
Something feels off on this. You're trying to escape her and the kids?
On phone.
Yeah when I am in town (where office is) it is pretty far home.
The days that I don't have kids I make sure to work a bit longer hours and workout at gym, so often it gets late.
Last direct bus (~45 min) leaves at 20:00.
However yesterday I felt I wanted some time alone and needed a good nights sleep.
I have to handle the kids at night since W always sleeps in the cabin.
But there is also some avoidance in there...
Once again, your advice is priceless! Thank you so much for taking your time!
If you have any invincible duct tap that would be fkn Awesome!
I have to purchase duct tape on an industrial scale.
I have always had to drag her through any type of serious talk.
I know what you mean. I think it becomes a problem when we are asking them questions, trying to get them to talk.....and it's easy to prompt, b/c it's so frustrating for us. In the past, if I was talking to my H, or most anyone, if I asked a question to get them to talk, if they didn't say something pretty quickly, I would be firing more at them. But.....are we doing them or ourselves a favor? I wonder if your W doesn't try very much, b/c she knows you are going to speak for her?
What I did feel this weekend though was a bit sadness for my D2 that mom wasn't around on her birthday party.
She may not have felt as sad as her daddy felt
for her.
I actually asked W again on Saturday but she said she was still feeling sick. But might as well have been she wanted to avoid the social gathering and its risk of questions and shame.
I'm by invitations like I am giving an apology. Invite one time. Apologize one time. It's up the other person to accept.
Journaling
Went out on friday (yes, slept at brothers place). Felt nice to look at other women in bars with a different "mindset".
Today I did a crossfit workout called Murph. Just under 40 minutes which is pretty good.
Told wife this morning I was going to do it and she seemed impressed.
In general it feels like she is trying to "catch up" with me and make sure we are in a good place.
Doing more house work, mowed our lawn, made me a sandwich this morning etc
Perhaps she is having some regret. But probably not.
To me it just feels like shes getting away with everything she has done..
Also, negotiated with my boss to remove my bonus and instead have a bit higher salary.
This will allow me to buy her out of the house. Will bring this up tonight.
Not sure if W still feels she needs to "get out..".
M,
What do you mean she's getting away with everything she's done? Do you feel like she should be punished? If so, in what way? She's sctually experiencing everything your going through she just looks at it a different way.
Very true she is going through everything as well. Thanks LH.
It would be good to know she understands how much she has hurt me and perhaps the kids.
I guess i need to tell her I don't want to be friends. But that will have to come later, when we don't share a house..
M,
Right now she doesn’t care about your feelings and she’s convinced herself that the kids will be fine. It’s possible someday she’ll realized the damage she’s done.
Don’t even tell her. Show her through actions.
I get the feeling you’re still trying to control the outcome.
Thanks again for your comment earlier LH. IT helped me realize her side and validate more tonight.
Came home just before bedtime and helped put D3 to bed (D3 wanted me to).
After me and W spoke a bit about the kids and their weekend.
Then I said that now I know I can buy her share of the house, said I talked to bank and that he needs to agree to a lower valuation of the house, sign asset lists etc..
Convo went something like this:
W- Im sure you parents are happy it will be a lower valuation
Me - No. We havnt really talked about it. (Though we have)
W - Everything feels so strange.
Me - Yes I understand, we have both been in limbo. Its been rough.
Silence.
Me - Last we spoke of the house you wanted me to buy you out.
She said something about she had been thinking about whats good for the kids.
I said, if I can buy her out I want to. Kids get to stay here at least part of the time.
She talked more about how it is tough and said she feels like shes about to cry constantly.
W - Havent really stopped to feel. At least I have "name of friend" to talk to and process things. Feel so alone. (Childhood friend that also broke up with her boyfriend recently...)
Me - Yeah you have a lot to process. It must be terrible to feel alone like that. You arent really that type of a person.
She didnt say anything so I asked if she had watered the plants, which she hadnt.
I started watering a few of them and then saw she was crying silently.
I looked at her and said it is tough to see you like this but I cant be the one to comfort her.
We can talk but now that we aren't a couple I won't always be there.
Literally as I am typing this W came in to the house from the cabin and went to sleep in D5's room. (D5 fell a sleep in MBR.)
Mumin,
immerse yourself in validation and DB. If she is this emotional you may have a chance to turn it around if you can avoid stepping on your own foot. How do you avoid that? Detach. Think and act, no more feel and react. I think you did fine in that convo but could do better still. Keep improving.
Hey all. Thanks Ovr for response!
I realizing how slow detachment is but can also feel it progressing continuously.
Tonight I went to the gym while W put kids to bed.
When I came home I soon entered mbr to unpack my bag.
Believe W was lying there next to D5 talking to OM. I belive she does thos from time to time when kids are close but not necessarily listening.
To me is F-ing brain dead to do something like that because they WILL take notice. Even if they are sleeping.
Thought about saying something but didn't. Just rolled my wires to my self. I guess I could say what I think but without making it a boundary. At least if I see it happening more often. What do you think?
What would you do if she didn't honor your boundary?
I wouldn't bother saying anything, because it isn't detachment.
When you get tired of it, you'll start moving forward without her. Doesn't mean divorce, moving forward nonetheless.
Keep working hard at the gym. Really hard! And then come home and hit the books on growing yourself. Pour your heart out into all these things.
What other GAL can you add in? Even GAL at home?
Quick update.
Your replies mean so much to me THAAANK YOU!!!!!
Havnt said anything about above.
Hit gym hard this week. Did som diy at home.
W has been feeling abit sick so we have both been at home in the house for 2 days. Strange feeling.
She has been initiating much more conversations.
Not sure if it's "real" or if she's tempchecking.
Trying not to be too available. Trust, nothing she says.
She has been showing feelings and really helping out at home. I am a bit more attached.
Last night had a similar convo as above.
W said she misses us so much (when she's away) that it physically hurts. She gets stomach aces.
I validated. Though I think I was abit too available.
Today she sent me a text about love and soul mates.
Not sure what to, or if I should respond.
M,
Ignore. Your W is not mentally stable. You don’t get married in August and then bomb your husband 2 months later while having an affair. You get that this isn’t normal behavior right? Did you read Zeus’s thread that has resurfaced? She needs serious help and reflection before you should ever consider reconciliation. Not because some passive aggressive bs.
Wasn’t it you who recently found butt plugs in your trash??
Thanks LH and Ginger! Have ignored and will take my mind of W for the remainder of the weekend (with kids:)).
Found the Zeus thread and will def read it all. Great tip LH!
I am definitely considering BPD. Highly increased sex drive (see below) can be one of the "symptoms" of Mania.
If it is BPD she is going through depression now, with lots of sadness.
Wasn’t it you who recently found butt plugs in your trash??
Yup, that was me.
Sometimes use that to "wake myself up" but it mostly brings anger (vs true DB).
Just run,
Run and run some more..
Do you really need this &^&S in your life..
Take a piece of paper and draw a big Y on it... You are at the bottom of the Y.. At the top of left point of the Y write a list of what you could be doing with your life if you moved on, and at the top of the right point write a list of all the crap your are suffering now / have been dealing with.
Start at the bottom of the Y and then decide which path is more appealing for your future.. Considering you all have written here and the state of your WW, do you really believe the right hand list will change in the future, if ever...Is this really the path you want to follow ?
Than you MrB! Did a similar exercise with my IC a few months back. Definitely getting out of this R with a WW but who knows what the future will bring.
Again thanks for the Zeus thread! It helps me get perspective.
W was back sleeping in the cabin las tnight, probably will be tonight aswell.
Changed her profile on Instagram AGAIN. Posted some strang pictures. Mania back maybe?
Anyway had a really awesome weekend with the kdis and my brother! Keep working out but got some pain in my lower back after working on the lawn this weekend.
I will bring up the house again tonight. Any thoughts?
Also in regards to instagram, it often gets my head and emotions spinning.
She mostly uses "story" (which I also do) so she can see if I haveseen it or not. I know she keeps a track of who is watching since she showed me that feature and I am pretty sure it gives her a kick/thrill.
I always avoid watching it immediatley but typically have a look after a few hours...
Been considering blocking/hiding her activity. She will probably notice this.
What are your thoughts?
Sorry for a quick and in-part badly written post. At work (18:30) and real busy!
Same sort of question though about pictures/vidoes shes been sending of the kids when she has them and I am away for some reason.
Typically I view them and dont anwer at all or something like "they're the best!"
Mumin, the IG thing is purely your choice. If it makes you spin every time she posts something then "mute" her account. You can mute posts or stories or both. If they are muted then you will not see them unless you specifically go to her account. She will not know that you muted her, as opposed to blocking her which she will know. Your marriage isn't going to survive or fail based on stuff like this, it's not significant. We typically say to avoid contact but that's to help you move on more than anything.
Same sort of question though about pictures/vidoes shes been sending of the kids when she has them and I am away for some reason.
Typically I view them and dont answer at all or something like "they're the best!"
I think that's fine. She's probably just doing it to help you adjust to not having the kids all the time, which is actually pretty kind of her. You might reciprocate when you have the kids.
Thanks AS! You're right I am making to big of a deal of Instagram.
Eventually though I will definitely Mute or Unfollow her.
With regards to sharing kids stuff I am not sure I want that tbh.
IT will depend on how I view her and her parenting.
If she continues to be very Wayward and cold towards me as well as not the best parent I think I will stay NC forever.
Only communication will be absolutley necessary around kids, and that will be less and less over the years.
Time will tell.
We had brief convo tonight.
She made sure to tell me she met up with that girlfriend I mentioned earlier.
Whats interesting though is I think she did it to show she wasnt spending time with OM.
Dont really understand why and wont analyze it further.
I asked her if she had thought more about the house (For those who may not have followed, few weeks back she wanted me to "buy her out" asap and now she seems to have changed her mind.)
She looked abit shocked and said:
No. I dont think about things when they are heavy/tough (not sure what best transalation is).
I said, Thats a good strategy. She laughed.
Basically ended by saying she needs to think about it so we get clarity for the kids and for eachother.
ATM she is in the cabin.
With regards to sharing kids stuff I am not sure I want that tbh.
That is perfectly fine too. Whatever is better for your own mental health! I distanced a lot after separation and especially divorce, but it has changed over time and XW and I share a lot more kid stuff these days. That may happen with you as well, but for now do what gives you the best peace of mind.
We had brief convo tonight.
She made sure to tell me she met up with that girlfriend I mentioned earlier.
Whats interesting though is I think she did it to show she wasnt spending time with OM.
Dont really understand why and wont analyze it further.
My XW was very, very tight-lipped about OM after S and D. I wouldn't have thought they were even talking, except the kids would mention him being around or going to do something with him now and then. I really didn't care after D, we were no longer married and her life was her own. But it did seem like she went out of her way to keep him a secret.
Mute, unfriend, or whatever it is doesn't matter. Just be you. Be confident in you. Stop worrying about her, her friend, her cabin.
Me? I would unfriend her. It's just the internet so don't get too worried.
How's work? How's GAL? How's your personal growth?
Thanks A LOT AS, Ovr and Vapo!
In fact I hope we can come to a place where we can share kids stuff. But she has a long way to go for that to happen and so do I (BD, detach, etc). So for now I will not share or share very little. We'll see how she handles it.
Mothers day is approaching where we live and it is my day with the kids. Wont do anything but prob let the kids call mom (who probably wont be home).
How's work? How's GAL? How's your personal growth?
Having a bit of a hard time getting full focus at work but handling it. They let my negotiate my bonus to be lowered and increase my pay which will enables me to buy the house or buy something else thats nice. Banks don't care about bonuses it seems (Unless you get it like every month, 10-12 months per year).
GAL is ok, was supposed to go with my brother in his van last night but he went with his GF. So I went out to dinner with a friend and then treated myself with a night at a hotel. Was really nice! Reading NGS and contemplating my childhood. Playing golf with a childhood friend tomorrow. Looking forward to it!
Been considering if I should give W a deadline on making up her mind about the house.
Like 1-2 weeks. If we are going to sell it would be good to get the process started within the next month.
Mothers day is approaching where we live and it is my day with the kids. Wont do anything but prob let the kids call mom (who probably wont be home).
How to handle Mother's Day and Father's Day are very personal choices. I encourage my kids to make a card for mom, to encourage my kids to think about others, and because the holiday celebrates the parent-child relationship instead of the (ex) husband-wife relationship.
A standard divorce agreement states mom gets kids on Mother’s Day and dad gets kids on Father’s Day , no matter who’s weekend it is. Been working great for us for 12 years
A standard divorce agreement states mom gets kids on Mother’s Day and dad gets kids on Father’s Day , no matter who’s weekend it is. Been working great for us for 12 years
Agreed, in my USA single parents' group, that's true for almost all parents with 50/50 splits.
Parents with 75/25 custody or more asymmetrical splits often don't have that exception. (The parent with <= 25% custody doesn't ask, and the parent with >75%+ custody doesn't remind them to.)
Sounds good!
I forgot to add, last time I asked about if she has thought about the house she said:
"no, I guess I'm avoiding to think about things that are hard/tough"
Sounds good!
I forgot to add, last time I asked about if she has thought about the house she said:
"no, I guess I'm avoiding to think about things that are hard/tough"
Sure, if you're legally able to, and need access to those funds, add a deadline. I set a soft deadline. My ex-wife paid rent on the family home, which automatically increased above market rate after six months. If I recall correctly, we sold after nine months, which worked out just fine for me.
Journaling
OK, didn't put a deadline (yet) but will definitely need to.
She's avoiding things SO MUCH and now she is trying to be cheerful, nice, beautiful etc around me.
Makes detachment and focus on me harder, and sort of pisses me off.
You think we're friends now???
Not sure I will ever want to be her friend.
Will be considering if my "NC" is forever (apart from kids stuff of course).
Also my brother has apparently been talking abit to SIL (they actually used to date(weird I know)).
Apparently SIL is not talking that much to her sister (my W) and she is afraid W will regret everything.
She's avoiding things SO MUCH and now she is trying to be cheerful, nice, beautiful etc around me.
Makes detachment and focus on me harder, and sort of pisses me off..
Would it be better if she was spewing at you and calling you all kinds of names?
You think we're friends now??? .
That's up to you.
Not sure I will ever want to be her friend.
Will be considering if my "NC" is forever (apart from kids stuff of course)..
Why borrow tomorrow's problems today?
Also my brother has apparently been talking abit to SIL (they actually used to date(weird I know))..
Dude your sitch gets weirder and weirder
Apparently SIL is not talking that much to her sister (my W) and she is afraid W will regret everything.
Maybe maybe not. I bet it is more likely you regret trying to hold on so tight.
Thank you LH!
Let go, let go, let go!
Mostly journaling and letting off some steam. Some days I am much better at detaching but living together part-time sometimes make sit really hard.
I feel like I want to move on but she (who pushed everything initially) is now getting comfortable.
Dude your sitch gets weirder and weirder
Oh she owes me a grand again...
Had to install a new heat-pump and I basically paid on sight.
One of W's best friends from college, who also sang at our wedding reached out.
She says she can't get a hold of W and is wondering how she is?
W has been avoiding everything and almost everyone from "our" part of her life for the past 6 months.
The friend and her husband recently had a child, and now she can't he t a hold of one of her better friends...
I feel sorry for the friend and get angry at W.
One side of me wants to tell her everything and say how bad W has been acting. But that would be controlling and going behind her back.
Guess I will answer something like.
Hi friend
"Me and W are partly separated since 4 months back.
So things aren't great but we are getting by.
How are you three doing? Would love to meet you guys and the baby!
Will tell W you reached out. "
M,
I would just validate your Ws friend.
Thank you so much for sticking to my sitch LH!!
How would you validate without telling her anything of the situation?
She doesn't know what's going on.
Just say that you understand she's frustrated that your W won't get back to her and you will pass the message along.
I agree w/LH19. There is no need to "air" your situation w/others, especially friends trying to contact her. Right now, it is no one else's business about what is going on w/you and your wife. If your w does contact them, it will be up to her to advise her friends what is going on. The ball would be in her court to explain what is going on. Keep your response short and to the point.
One of W's best friends from college, who also sang at our wedding reached out.
She says she can't get a hold of W and is wondering how she is?
W has been avoiding everything and almost everyone from "our" part of her life for the past 6 months.
The friend and her husband recently had a child, and now she can't he t a hold of one of her better friends...
I feel sorry for the friend and get angry at W.
It's not unusual. One of the old timers here used to say that a WAS detaches in this order- spouse, close family, friends and then when they reattach they do it in the opposite order. If their friends don't enable their behavior, especially if they are wayward, then they drop those friends and surround themselves with enablers.
Hi friend
"Me and W are partly separated since 4 months back.
So things aren't great but we are getting by.
How are you three doing? Would love to meet you guys and the baby!
Will tell W you reached out. "
If the friend doesn't know you're separated then I think it's OK to tell her. Your statement above is pretty good, but I would leave out the part about things not being great. I also wouldn't offer to tell W anything, just stay out of it. LH's suggestion of validation is good- "I'm sorry you haven't heard from her, hopefully she will reach out to you soon."
Hi all, and thank you so much for all advice!! LH, AS, Job (nice to see you stopping by!)
I keep saying it but this place truly is amazing!
Unfortunately for DB my workday has been crazy hectic and I answered the friend in the middle of it and never returned here to see these awesome replies...
Didnt go to bad though. I answered a mix of what you guys said but a bit too much detail.
I totally agree with you AS on staying out of it.
In my work stress I actually both gave the friend my W's work phone number AND told W about it...
That last part is SOO much NGS.
W replied "Thank you H" (With a heart emoji?)
Basically I have "helped" W to soften the blow, while being her errand boy... D@mn it!
Luckily this thing is a minor part of the whole sitch.
Once again THANK YOU for all your replies. This process is relaly helping me develop as a man and personally!
I realize more and more the depth of my NGS...
Basically I have "helped" W to soften the blow, while being her errand boy... D@mn it!
So, how can you break yourself from repeating these nice-guy patterns?
Do not beat yourself over it. Dust youself off and get back on the horse.