Well, time again to start a new thread... Interesting night last night and LH's input on what happened.
Check it out here:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2889610&page=11If anything. I'm not sad or panicked or anxious at the moment. Disappointed but I think that is a fair emotion to have currently.
The sun is out. I will enjoy MY Sunday.
KC,
I read your postings of yesterday and shook my head. DBing is not about playing games, being spiteful, petty and/or childish in how any of us should be handling our situations. It's about helping you learn to cope, find yourself and even, help you w/patience and compassion.
KC, even though you felt empowered w/what you said, it came across as spiteful and petty. Woman, don't lower yourself to his level of childish play. You may not realize it, but you are the adult in this situation right now. You can't get respect from someone saying what you did. If you want respect, show him that you can rise above his nasty self and do the right thing. He has told you over and over again how things came down to his last divorce and you are falling right into the same rabbit hole of his xw. Look, you are falling right into his plan of why he's justifying his leaving you and the relationship. You don't want that. You want him to see you as a strong, wise, independent woman who can handle anything at any time.
So, I'm asking you to think before you post something to him. If you had misplaced your license, you would have been in a panic as well since most of the the MVA's are closing indefinitely and you wouldn't have been able to get a new license until they opened up again.
In this time of world crisis, we all need to step back just a wee bit and show a bit more patience and compassion for our fellow man. Yes, I know he's lied and cheated, but that's on him, not you. There are far more important issues that need to be focused on today and in the near future, i.e., this virus can take out anyone from all walks of life and it's too late when someone we know and love could be taken from us. So, KC, I'm asking you to please, please be the adult in your situation and do the very best you can to hold your head up high and if and when you do communicate w/your h, that you be the adult in the conversation. Do not lower yourself to his level because that's what he wants, i.e., to justify what he's doing...don't give him that justification.
Stay safe and above all else healthy.
Yeah.... that wasn't my intent at all. I wanted to be funny and cute. I clearly was not looking at this with an outside objective.
Like Job and LH he took this as spiteful and another reason that I have failed him and why we are divorcing.
I didnt respond to the m&m comment. This has to stop. I'm exhausted being the only adult in the situation, but I dont want to be seen as petty and spiteful.
Is an apology due? Do I just let it go and be more determined to DB?
Let it go. Today’s a new day.
Definitely just let it go. Today is a new day and from this day forward, think before hitting the send button.
In lockdown there is a lot of time to be left to your thoughts... sigh
I fell for breadcrumbs and cake eating this weekend.
I engaged in behaviors I thought were strong and setting boundaries... turned out I was being petty and spiteful. It was felt by others it was a move to gain control. I dont want to be seen as controlling.... that's a 180 for me I must concentrate on.
I was really feeling stronger in my path to let go and let be, but it turned out to be less of a proud moment t overall.
I will make a stronger commitment to not look at calls/texts. I will not be part of that selfish behavior any longer.
Everyone has missteps along the way. Yesterday was mine, but also today is MINE too. Everyday is my day to make choices for me.
Focusing on me --- out of isolation for work today.
Yesterday was lots of Ted Talks, Self Help Motivational Videos, etc. Never one for meditation videos but will try it out today.
I slacked off on exercise - mostly because I was sore but weight is still dropping off like the tears I am unable to shed.
I'm tired of cleaning so would like to bake and cook more but there is no one to cook/bake for - no family in town so it would just all go to waste.
Bff that lives several states away suggested we use an online platform to have face to face time and knit together. I really like that idea.
Letting go and trying to find my peace in all this...
Cook and bake and give to your local hospital. They will be very grateful
NOPE --- they will not be taking food like that due to virus.
But, I do like the thought... I could have cookies and pies all over the counter and cheesecakes... But, I don't really eat that kind of stuff I just love sharing it. It was a good symbiotic relationship with H...
Anyway at work and it is slow.... that just makes the day drag on. But its here with some interaction with people versus sitting at home and interacting with a smartphone.
Deep breath and taking it hour by hour today.
I like the new attitude! I prefer you be a little petty and rude, rather than being on the hook with every word and deed from him. We generally try to tell LBSs to avoid pettiness and rudeness, but if you can't remain neutral I'd rather you fall on that side rather than be overly accommodating.
So A+ grade from me over the weekend! I think you can evolve from being petty and rude to more neutral as you get better at this.
Also, WASs always accuse their WAS of being petty and rude once we start getting good at detachment. It is a new normal that they struggle with. Remember, he wants you hanging on for dear life so that he has plan B. Waywards especially want their cake and eat it too. Sandi is clear that tough love is necessary for waywards. Sometimes that requires a bit of rudeness. Maybe bluntness is another word for it.
I like the new attitude! I prefer you be a little petty and rude, rather than being on the hook with every word and deed from him. We generally try to tell LBSs to avoid pettiness and rudeness, but if you can't remain neutral I'd rather you fall on that side rather than be overly accommodating.
So A+ grade from me over the weekend! I think you can evolve from being petty and rude to more neutral as you get better at this.
Also, WASs always accuse their WAS of being petty and rude once we start getting good at detachment. It is a new normal that they struggle with. Remember, he wants you hanging on for dear life so that he has plan B. Waywards especially want their cake and eat it too. Sandi is clear that tough love is necessary for waywards. Sometimes that requires a bit of rudeness. Maybe bluntness is another word for it.
Those words give me strength. Trust me I felt terribly guilty all weekend.
Why???
Because I'm a decent person. I don't want to show ill will to anyone. Because of the field I am in its important for me to be accommodating to the needs of others and listen to their concerns as what I work with cannot speak for itself. There are a number of clients that I go above and beyond to advocate for the suffering of those that cannot speak for themselves. Calling after hours. Going in on my only day off. I have so many clients that love me and I love the fact that I have been associated with this business over 30yr.
I am taking soooo much pride that in the last 2 weeks I have NOT initiated any contact. I'm not always happy that I respond to his contact --- I have ignored some. When he gets me on the phone I am ALWAYS the one to end the call. And, 50% of what he contacts me about is 100% unnecessary.
The weight loss is helping my self esteem AND though he won't say a word about it ---- H has to notice right?? How could he not when clothes are hanging on me... and my cute sexy scrubs are hugging all the right places and not appearing to be stretched too tight??? :-)
Its been radio silence for some time now. H hasn't been to the house in 5 days now - the longest he has been gone. I have no idea where he is and I'm not the least bit interested in asking.
I'm realzing HOW much he isn't checking in on me OR this puppy he seems to think he is leaving the house with at some point.
No ISSUES... I got it.. I'm not waiting on you to fix the fence, the drywall, etc. Don't need to bother you for anything.
:-)
Hit KitCat,
Good job this weekend--you're finding your strength! I agree with Steve that the petty exchange was much better than the previous doormat exchanges and it takes time to find your stride. IMHO, it might even have been a cute exchange except: (1) you already knew where "me" license was and (2) that final venting message, the one where unlike the previous messages you didn't use Scottish Brogue and wait 20-40min before saying something you may regret. Keep working on it and telling your story.
PS - Have you considered baking mini-pies, mini-tarts, mini-cupcakes, etc. instead of full-blown ones? You're worth the effort if you enjoy them, and that avoids feeling bad about waste or overindulging.
Hit KitCat,
PS - Have you considered baking mini-pies, mini-tarts, mini-cupcakes, etc. instead of full-blown ones? You're worth the effort if you enjoy them, and that avoids feeling bad about waste or overindulging.
Thanks... I've NO desire to eat any of that... but I love making it.
I embraced being a family of 5. Having those to cook for and make things. I went out of my comfort zone and made stuff that the kids would like or my H would like. There were some things in my repertoire that he raved out to others and said it was better than his mom's OR better than the restaurant. I took pride in that for sure!!!
I will adjust. Besides its impossible to get butter around here right now... sheesh... so I shouldn't be wasting limited supplies on baking for no one.
I really need to get back to exercising today!!!! Keep my focus going forward. Hopefully I can get the puppy exercised today too.
Still striving to stay focused on me.
KC, lots of "I" in these last few posts. I love it
I need some advice on how to handle a situation with H - I am not asking for legal advice. I'm trying to balance the protecting myself and not being seen as a total B*tCH which would prevent recon.
Now - I am very aware that H is completely SELFISH. Contact is about him and his needs. He has not contacted to find out anything about me, does the puppy need anything, am I handling the puppy okay, did I need anything, how are handling the virus issue and my job? He has not shown a single bit of interest in ME.
As for the license that he contacted non-stop over - its been 2 days and he still hasn't picked it up.
I have a financial restraining order on our accounts. He was informed last Wednesday and is aware I filed for Legal S at the same time.
The plan was to take our emergency fund and pay off my vehicle and his. He of course said "well now I can't pay off your vehicle, congrats"... to then trying to be smooth and how he can't move out if he can't get funds for this house and he is not out to screw me over, blah blah blah. The conversation last Thursday AM was that I would see what could be done with Atty.
SO - I have verbal/written consent from Atty that we can indeed pay off our vehicles (marital assets) with marital money if we agree. I could also release funds for him to buy house but she suggested I make him get those funds outside marital assets.
He is texting today asking if the order was lifted --- of course the answer is NO because courts are closed.
BUT do I tell him 1) I have authorization for him to pay off vehicles AND then see if he steps up and does that. I could delay on what he is truly asking by saying I don't know about that yet.
I imagine when its just okay to pay off the vehicles but his funds are still frozen he will just say F that and go back to being dark... OR do I give him the chance to show me he will pay off the vehicles??? That would be doing something less selfish.
OR - do I just tell him courts are closed????
I really want a chance at recon - I can't have him adding this to the pile of his resentments of me.
Either way I know I will be okay. The sun will rise tomorrow. I'm working on being the most attractive me I can be and letting him go for now.
Thanks for any input.
I need some advice on how to handle a situation with H - I am not asking for legal advice. I'm trying to balance the protecting myself and not being seen as a total B*tCH which would prevent recon.
Hi KitCat,
I'll delve into details later, but I'll remind you that you don't control how your ex "sees" you. Just think back to all you did to help him with his paperwork vs. his perception of what you did! You only control who you actually are. As long as you demand through your attorney only what they believe the courts would award you as fair, you're doing nothing wrong that should prevent reconciliation, and note being more financially stable could make you more desirable to him and others in the future.
KC,
Be honest...the courts are closed and he probably knows that. However, you can advise him that the lawyer has been in contact w/you and advised you that the vehicles can be paid off with the marital assets.
If he should question about the release of funds for the purchase of another home, then I would advise him that he needs to speak to his lawyer about this particular issue. The reason that I am saying this is he needs to be speaking to his own lawyer about it because he may not accept what you tell him about it. For one thing, if I were in your shoes, I would never agree to allowing him to use marital assets in purchasing another home unless I were going to be living in it. BTW, if he purchases another home w/martial assets, that home will come into play when it comes to splitting up of marital assets and your lawyer just very well may go after 1/2 of that particular asset.
It's not your job to be advising him of what your lawyer tells you. Remember...your lawyer is representing you, not him. He's a grown man and should be working w/his own lawyer and if doesn't have one...then he needs to get one. Keep your cool and be very up front and honest...do not share anything more w/him that your lawyer tells you.
I need some advice on how to handle a situation with H - I am not asking for legal advice. I'm trying to balance the protecting myself and not being seen as a total B*tCH which would prevent recon.
Hi KitCat,
I'll delve into details later, but I'll remind you that you don't control how your ex "sees" you. Just think back to all you did to help him with his paperwork vs. his perception of what you did! You only control who you actually are. As long as you demand through your attorney only what they believe the courts would award you as fair, you're doing nothing wrong that should prevent reconciliation, and note being more financially stable could make you more desirable to him and others in the future.
CW - thanks and I see your point.
He is trying to close on a house next week and needs the funds to do so.
We haven't divided everything up and giving him anything NOW may not guarantee he will be generous later for sure. Especially for a man who has been completely selfish for several weeks now.
I could screw up his house buying plans...
This makes me anxious--- the spew of texts I would get if this happens. I know I should not fear his anger but lets face it. I still love this man. I still want the best for him. And, if I love him I let him go right?
My meeting was cancelled, so I can write more--
I could also release funds for him to buy house but she suggested I make him get those funds outside marital assets.
Great--so attorney suggests DO NOT release marital funds. Sounds wise.
He is texting today asking if the order was lifted --- of course the answer is NO because courts are closed.
Why reply? If he's really curious he could check the court website, ask your attorney, or ask his attorney. If you must reply, a simple "No" answers the question without another dramatic exchange.
1) I have authorization for him to pay off vehicles AND then see if he steps up and does that.
You say you want to reconcile--that involves dropping the rope and letting him miss you, not setting tests to see if he "steps up". Can't this wait 3-6mo to be handled together with other financial matters?
I imagine when its just okay to pay off the vehicles but his funds are still frozen he will just say F that and go back to being dark... OR do I give him the chance to show me he will pay off the vehicles???
Return the focus to you.
CW ---- thanks again!!!
To clarify the funds are actually "his". He put them in a joint account but I always referred to them as "his". The plan was he was going to leave the funds and at retirement buy a fun toy with them.
I'm being proactive and locking everything down -- remember he wanted to be amicable and share the atty and go through this together... then I got the crappy texts being all accusative and what not. He got very defensive and more mysterious about everything so I locked it up.
Is there part of me that is wanting to block this house purchase??? I think there is to some degree.
What are my motives here??? I am trying to work through that.
I need someone of reason to help me with this...
So H's OW father died last week. Legal S was filed the day before. H told me - father of a friend died
In the obituary her name is listed and his in parenthesis like he is HER SPOUSE.
WTH?????
How does someone deal with this????
DO I CALL HIM OUT????
I NEED SOME SERIOUS ADVICE
I'd recommend not contacting him. He's no longer your friend or confidant to help you work through your emotions. Calling him out isn't going to help you detach and move on or detach and reconcile.
What would that accomplish ?
How is he listed as her husband in obiturary...
He is still married to me...
This is the most crazy thing ever??? How does someone reconcile after this???
What would that accomplish ?
He wants me to allow him to have funds to buy his new house....
He is walking all over me and lying to me...
So I should not call him out on this behavior???
I'm tolerating it any longer. I wanted to recon very badly. I could deal with PA but this ... this is terrible...
Changing locks and codes for the house.
Why do you want to recon so badly?
He only walks all over you if you let him. And you let him.
Dont give him funds to buy new house. It’s that simple.
He will only do what you allow.
Why do you want to recon so badly?
He only walks all over you if you let him. And you let him.
Dont give him funds to buy new house. It’s that simple.
He will only do what you allow.
I have let him. I thought if I let him go he would get past feeling imprisoned and have some breathing room.
I wanted recon because I took my marriage vows seriously and while I was not completely at fault I have owned my part in the issues.
I was working on those issues.
What was so important about his license??? It was a way to contact me on a Saturday night because it still sits here and he hasn't come to retrieve it.
Its just such blatant disrespect.... AND, I want to call him out on it... I want to say I've changed the locks d**chebag.
I'm so angry he could be so disrespectful
RANT OVER
Why are there SEVEN threads for this?
KC, you know what that tells me (he being listed are l as her spouse)? That's this has been going on a lot longer than we thought. Someone doesn't get listed on the obit as a spouse after a few weeks off dating. This has been going on for months, minimum.
I'd forget recon at this point and move your own life forward. Call your lawyer, tell him you want to move to divorce, not separation. You have been being played go l for a long time. His complaints are null and void. Cheating on your spouse is way way way way way way worse than being a less than perfect spouse. I'm frustrated that you don't see that.
KC, you know what that tells me (he being listed are l as her spouse)? That's this has been going on a lot longer than we thought. Someone doesn't get listed on the obit as a spouse after a few weeks off dating. This has been going on for months, minimum.
I'd forget recon at this point and move your own life forward. Call your lawyer, tell him you want to move to divorce, not separation. You have been being played go l for a long time. His complaints are null and void. Cheating on your spouse is way way way way way way worse than being a less than perfect spouse. I'm frustrated that you don't see that.
I do know for 100% that this has not been going on for more than 8 weeks.
Its WHO my husband is.... he is in love with initial infatuation and attention and all those chemicals limerance brings.
He falls so hard... he proposes in a short time... he will have convinced himself.
He was at a vulnerable place... and she was there.
How do others on this board get past PA? It happens. They find a way to get back and make it work.
Steve85 - then moving on from a PA is not an option for me?
I'm so angry that I vented here and not at my H... yelling at my H over this is just going to prove his point.
I re-keyed all the locks this evening.
Changed all the codes to all the keypads.
Did he really think he could come and go as he pleased while having HER???
Text message to H very shortly.
KC, you know what that tells me (he being listed are l as her spouse)? That's this has been going on a lot longer than we thought. Someone doesn't get listed on the obit as a spouse after a few weeks off dating. This has been going on for months, minimum.
I'd forget recon at this point and move your own life forward. Call your lawyer, tell him you want to move to divorce, not separation. You have been being played go l for a long time. His complaints are null and void. Cheating on your spouse is way way way way way way worse than being a less than perfect spouse. I'm frustrated that you don't see that.
I do know for 100% that this has not been going on for more than 8 weeks.
Its WHO my husband is.... he is in love with initial infatuation and attention and all those chemicals limerance brings.
He falls so hard... he proposes in a short time... he will have convinced himself.
He was at a vulnerable place... and she was there.
How do others on this board get past PA? It happens. They find a way to get back and make it work.
Steve85 - then moving on from a PA is not an option for me?
I'm so angry that I vented here and not at my H... yelling at my H over this is just going to prove his point.
Moving on from a PA that has ended is possible. Moving on from a PA that the WAS refuses to end is impossible.
It's been 8 weeks at most... wasn't May's H involved for 2yr???
Of course he is not at a point of ending it... he is still dealing with trying to get some space and control of his situation... OW is his emotional support dog.
I surprised him by being strong enough to file.
I will surprise him by not allowing him to come and go as he pleases... he is kicked out the door.
I deserve better. I cannot compete with OW and I won't even try. I know my value and worth and what I brought to the relationship. He was so lucky to have landed me... I'm not perfect but I have always loved and he ored my H.
Good luck getting me to unlock those funds.... you are not BUYING her a house.
I'd recommend not contacting him. He's no longer your friend or confidant to help you work through your emotions. Calling him out isn't going to help you detach and move on or detach and reconcile.
Yes he is no longer my friend or someone to help me deal with my emotions. You are right.
Its hard when you talk to one person and vice versa. Its still hard not to open up to them and look at them for a way through this.
I need to print this out.
He doesn't get to have access to my emotions any more. Those I have to keep private. This is an excellent point.
KC, quit trying to "nice" him back. It never ever never ever never ever works. You locked down the finances, that was a very wise and prudent thing to do given your deteriorating marital situation. He is pouting and throwing a fit and making all kinds of accusations like an 8 year old that wants a toy at the store. Let me ask you, would you give that kid the toy? Is that the answer? Does it make everything better? Temporarily maybe, but that kid will lose ALL RESPECT for you and continue to control and manipulate you in ever more aggressive ways.
DO NOT PAY OFF YOUR CARS RIGHT NOW. DO NOT GIVE HIM MONEY TO BUY A HOUSE. I don't care if he thinks it's "his" money that he was going to use to buy some fancy toy, it's marital assets, period. You've taken moves to protect yourself, and that is GOOD because you need protection from this a-hole.
You want to recon? Then you've GOT to earn his respect. Quit being the whiny, desperate, pathetic pushover content to lap up crumbs. Respect yourself enough to quit giving in to his manipulation tactics. Everything needs to be filtered through your attorney now, period. Stop being the victim and start being the strong woman you are inside.
KC, quit trying to "nice" him back. It never ever never ever never ever works. You locked down the finances, that was a very wise and prudent thing to do given your deteriorating marital situation. He is pouting and throwing a fit and making all kinds of accusations like an 8 year old that wants a toy at the store. Let me ask you, would you give that kid the toy? Is that the answer? Does it make everything better? Temporarily maybe, but that kid will lose ALL RESPECT for you and continue to control and manipulate you in ever more aggressive ways.
DO NOT PAY OFF YOUR CARS RIGHT NOW. DO NOT GIVE HIM MONEY TO BUY A HOUSE. I don't care if he thinks it's "his" money that he was going to use to buy some fancy toy, it's marital assets, period. You've taken moves to protect yourself, and that is GOOD because you need protection from this a-hole.
You want to recon? Then you've GOT to earn his respect. Quit being the whiny, desperate, pathetic pushover content to lap up crumbs. Respect yourself enough to quit giving in to his manipulation tactics. Everything needs to be filtered through your attorney now, period. Stop being the victim and start being the strong woman you are inside.
He was informed last night that locks and codes were changed.
That was met with a bevy of texts that he was coming by in the AM. I repeated again that he is not to be here. He needs to respect my need for space that he could give me a list of essentials and a time for where/when for him to collect.
He kept insisting he was going to be here at 9amish. He already needed to be in town.
I said again he is not respecting me and he needs to not be here. He has been gong 6 days already so he has enough to manage right now.
I got that he needed x, y, z. And, I was preventing him from access to his medical stuff. I reminded him he hasn't needed it for 6 weeks. He insisted he needed his toothbrush... Again, I reminded him that he hasn't missed it in the last 6 weeks and he started to complain about how the toothbrush he has is all matted, blah blah blah.
I stated I was not keeping him from anything but telling me he was showing up at X time was not finding a time that worked for both of us.
H states he hasn't slept well for 2 weeks as the oral appliance we sprang out of pocket for at 3K ins't working as well as the Cpap, but keep in mind he has never packed his Cpap in the last 6 weeks.
I'm NOT supposed to validate right now??? I get confused.
I am kicking his behind out the door.
I am telling him I am worth more. I am done.
I'm not proud of where the convo went --- the OW. You can stay there and I can do an address change so we can separate out insurance (insurance won't separate while he still lives at same address.) He tired to lie and say he doesn't stay there all the time. Its a one bedroom apartment and its very small. WAH! WAH! You are all up in her business you make a little cute love nest (of course I didn't say that last part... that's me venting.)
We talked briefly about work. He didn't realize that I am still working as I'm considered part of the essential business allowed to work on lockdown - I'm in public health in a way...
I'm trying to breath and give myself time to respond. Its not always perfect in the heat of the moment.
I said to him that you said you kept trying and kept trying, but YOU SHOULD HAVE NEVER GIVEN UP ON ME. I am your wife.
H said you are probably right. H said he just got burnt out.
I said this was supposed to be amicable but you have treated me like doormat. H apologized (please keep in mind how very little this man ever apologizes - he would do more with actions than words in our marriage.) H said he didn't mean to and this is just wasn't supposed to be like this.
I let it go... but really what WAS it supposed to be like???
I ENDED the call. It was me again calling the shots on our communication.
I packed a few things quickly as I needed to get to work ASAP so didn't really have time to address everything he wanted but seriously he has been gone 6 days he has enough to survive.
He texted me to let him know when he could pick up his stuff... no response... he can drive by and see the trash bags on the porch.
I'm taking back my control.
I'm bracing that this will get ugly.
But, he is treating me with no respect and seriously... I have doctorate... I'm valuable to my community and loved by my clients... he used to revere me. I'm done.
Nice work, Kit!
Now you are coming from a place of power and he is already responding in kind. Be prepared because he will change his tune to try and get what he wants from you. He is realizing that you aren't putting up with his threats anymore so he will have to try a different tactic to get you to comply. Don't fall for it.
Oh, and remember to still believe NOTHING he says. Even when he's being cordial.
Oh, and remember to still believe NOTHING he says. Even when he's being cordial.
^^^^^^ I screamed this out loud as soon as off the phone ^^^^^
I know MY weakness. I know that when I said he should have never given up on me... and he replied I was probably right... THAT'S MY SOFT SPOT.
That is me "trying to talk him into our relationship". I get that. He responded in the moment but I know that is not how he truly feels.
I get it he is being NICE in efforts to NICE me back to being a doormat.
KC! So proud of you! When you first came back here I saw a beaten down, sad, poor self-esteem woman. Now I see a fierce, strong, woman that knows her own worth!! Almost brings a tear of joy to my eye. And I am a man that cries even less often then your H apologizes.
Keep it up. You are right, things will get worse before they get better. But with your new outlook I think you will be fine, and will get through!
I get it he is being NICE in efforts to NICE me back to being a doormat.
Love it! You are sounding strong today.
He texted me to let him know when he could pick up his stuff... no response... he can drive by and see the trash bags on the porch.
I'd be careful on this--you'd probably be liable and in the wrong if his things were to be stolen, damaged by weather, pests, etc. because you left them in a vulnerable position. I love your not letting him enter and leave as he pleases and use your residence for storage.
I get it he is being NICE in efforts to NICE me back to being a doormat.
Love it! You are sounding strong today.
He texted me to let him know when he could pick up his stuff... no response... he can drive by and see the trash bags on the porch.
I'd be careful on this--you'd probably be liable and in the wrong if his things were to be stolen, damaged by weather, pests, etc. because you left them in a vulnerable position. I love your not letting him enter and leave as he pleases and use your residence for storage.
I see your point and that is why I stressed to him about scheduling a time that works for us both. He refused. And, I knew he was in town already.
I'm also in a high end neighborhood last house on dead end... my porch is also somewhat obstructed from street. It's a protected area.
I would have packed more but he was being pushy and I had to get to work... go buy a new toothbrush...
KC! So proud of you! When you first came back here I saw a beaten down, sad, poor self-esteem woman. Now I see a fierce, strong, woman that knows her own worth!! Almost brings a tear of joy to my eye. And I am a man that cries even less often then your H apologizes.
Keep it up. You are right, things will get worse before they get better. But with your new outlook I think you will be fine, and will get through!
Thank you Steve85 but know while I'm trying to make up for lost ground... there is still a big piece of that scared, timid, wanting to make everyone happy little girl.
I'll try not to let her come out too much... but I know that silence from H now will plant some seeds of self doubt.
I will work out tonight and sweat out as much as I can.
Holding Tight
go buy a new toothbrush...
lmao! That part was ridiculous.
Glad to read the lock change post.
Standing up for yourself must feel good.
Stand on your core values. It serves us well.
HUGS
Hit KitCat! How'd your night go? Nights early on can be hard with moods coming and going. I hope this morning finds you being that strong and determined KitCat again.
CW -
Thanks for checking in.
Last night was not bad at all. While I'm in higher risk for virus than most because i still work and interact with public at the very least I get to spend my days with face to face interactions that I know that many are missing.
I'm an introvert so being stuck at home would technically NOT be a problem. But, given my emotional state and that of my M its been much more painful to be at home. I literally have not had a tv on outside of 30min in the last 8 weeks. Combine that with world troubles --- things are just plan weird here.
There is a tiny bit of peace today. There is some relief that this space is mine. That I have stopped allowing him to come and go as he pleases. He doesn't get to give the best of himself to OW and show up here to give his anger and disgust. Let her start to get on his nerves in a tiny one bedroom apartment. He lived a good life with me here and clearly he is not into downsizing as much as he professed. Might I suggest next time he pick an AP that lives in a higher income bracket then??? Okay... that was a snarky comment which I would never say outloud but I feel I'm allowed!
Our puppy is 65lb now and between the other 100lb dog I'm very busy.
That doesn't mean I don't get into my own head for sure. He hasn't texted in over 24hr. Certainly not the longest time we have gone without contact - I believe that to be 4 days? But, I won't lie I start playing our last convo over and over in my head picking apart his words.
When I stated that he voiced his feelings that he kept trying and kept trying hoping I would change.
I said my peace - that he should have never stopped trying because I was his wife.
He replied - you are probably right ----- HE JUST VALIDATED ME. This is why I soften. This is why I am hopeful. Because his validation made me feel good. I'm sorting it out. Just because he validated me doesn't mean he agrees with me but that he just understands my feeling of that he should have never given up.
He then also stated - he was just burnt out. He validated me and then gave me his true feelings. His excuse for leaving the M. He is simply justifying that he stopped trying because he was burnt out. I can see that he truly felt I had lost feelings for him and once that happened the drive he hated became the bane of his existence and everything spiraled. Had he not come into contact with this "old friend" and confided everything too her and became super vulnerable there might have been hope we would have weathered this rough spot.
I realize that my H is reverse DBing me... BIG HEAVY SIGH.
But, I will spend more time with the dogs today. Bite the bullet and sign up for MasterClass - I can only watch so many Ted Talks.
I will learn a new technique in a favorite hobby.
Those are my plans today!!!!
He was informed last night that locks and codes were changed.
That was met with a bevy of texts that he was coming by in the AM. I repeated again that he is not to be here. He needs to respect my need for space that he could give me a list of essentials and a time for where/when for him to collect.
He kept insisting he was going to be here at 9amish. He already needed to be in town.
I said again he is not respecting me and he needs to not be here. He has been gong 6 days already so he has enough to manage right now.
I got that he needed x, y, z. And, I was preventing him from access to his medical stuff. I reminded him he hasn't needed it for 6 weeks. He insisted he needed his toothbrush... Again, I reminded him that he hasn't missed it in the last 6 weeks and he started to complain about how the toothbrush he has is all matted, blah blah blah.
GOOD! It sounds like you finally got fed up with the BS. He's quickly going to figure out that the bullying is no longer working, so he will switch to being your best buddy so be prepared for that. It's not genuine, it's all tactics to get what he wants. When that doesn't work he will switch back to being a bully, he will keep going back and forth with that for a while. You've got to stand your ground! You can do this!
As for the toothbrush, YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!!!! He "must" enter the house so he can retrieve a toothbrush? I'd be inclined to take some of the puppy's feces, put it on the porch and stick the toothbrush in it and tell him you left it on the porch, he can pick it up whenever
H states he hasn't slept well for 2 weeks as the oral appliance we sprang out of pocket for at 3K ins't working as well as the Cpap, but keep in mind he has never packed his Cpap in the last 6 weeks.
I'm NOT supposed to validate right now??? I get confused.
No not right now. Don't validate when he's whining, crying or complaining about you. When do you validate? When he is genuinely expressing his feelings. If he says he's down or depressed or such and he seems to really mean it as opposed to blaming you for it, then validate.
I am kicking his behind out the door.
I am telling him I am worth more. I am done.
This is good, now stand firm! He's going to try and try to break you down and push you over. Don't let him.
I'm trying to breath and give myself time to respond. Its not always perfect in the heat of the moment.
Good. You might want to turn off his text notifications so you're not tempted to read and reply every time he sends something.
I said to him that you said you kept trying and kept trying, but YOU SHOULD HAVE NEVER GIVEN UP ON ME. I am your wife.
Don't say things like that, that's a "I'm still your Plan B" statement. It's desperate. Stick to BUSINESS ONLY. Nothing else. If he asks how your day is, ignore it. Where's my money clip, ignore. WHY WON'T YOU RESPOND, ignore it. Bills? Reply in a businesslike tone. He has narcissistic tendencies and narcissists love to suck the energy out of people. They honestly don't care if it's positive or negative energy as long as they get something. Quit feeding your energy to him. Some doctors advise that you have to turn yourself into the most dull, boring person in the world to stop them. No positive energy, no negative energy.
I said this was supposed to be amicable but you have treated me like doormat. H apologized (please keep in mind how very little this man ever apologizes - he would do more with actions than words in our marriage.) H said he didn't mean to and this is just wasn't supposed to be like this.
Again, bullying stopped working so he's switching to being your buddy. It is absolutely 100% an act to bring you into compliance, nothing more. Do not believe it for one second.
I'm bracing that this will get ugly.
You might be surprised. I think you've been through the ugliest part. Once he realizes he can't browbeat you into submission he will more than likely stop it. I mean he might try a few more times but as long as you hold the line he will eventually give it up.
As for the toothbrush, YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!!!! He "must" enter the house so he can retrieve a toothbrush? I'd be inclined to take some of the puppy's feces, put it on the porch and stick the toothbrush in it and tell him you left it on the porch, he can pick it up whenever
My H has NO idea what a wonderful woman he M. Certainly I've had thoughts of using that toothbrush all over the house but I could never bring myself to do something so low. He is freaking out that his stuff is here and unprotected... but seriously you've been gone more than you have been here since BD. I could have f'd it up anytime. So not who I am in the world.
Don't say things like that, that's a "I'm still your Plan B" statement. It's desperate. Stick to BUSINESS ONLY. Nothing else. If he asks how your day is, ignore it. Where's my money clip, ignore. WHY WON'T YOU RESPOND, ignore it. Bills? Reply in a businesslike tone. He has narcissistic tendencies and narcissists love to suck the energy out of people. They honestly don't care if it's positive or negative energy as long as they get something. Quit feeding your energy to him. Some doctors advise that you have to turn yourself into the most dull, boring person in the world to stop them. No positive energy, no negative energy.
I know. I realize that is ME trying to talk him into the relationship. And, that is pursuing. And I get that even as he said "you are probably right" he was most likely rolling his eyes.
Its hard. Its so hard to not to have that level of intimacy after 10yr. Its not like I want to ask where he is - frankly I have no idea. But checking in about work, family, etc. It really is so very hard.
I have to keep working on that.
I'm bracing that this will get ugly.
You might be surprised. I think you've been through the ugliest part. Once he realizes he can't browbeat you into submission he will more than likely stop it. I mean he might try a few more times but as long as you hold the line he will eventually give it up.
I'm not sure about that but I do get what you are saying. That he is going to try to NICE me back to being complacent. I need to pack up more of his stuff but it is so painful clearing out drawers.
Today I started my first pair of knitted socks!
I'm an avid knitter and knit anything but I've never seen the point of socks. High quality yarn cost about $50 for a pair of socks... those are pricey socks!!!
But I'm challenging myself so pricey socks it is!
The day ended beautifully with sunshine and slightly warmer weather so got the dogs out for exercise.
I'm going to work on some self motivational homework tonight/tomorrow.
-------------------------------
I had asked H to respect my boundaries and give me space...
I got 36hr before he texted and since I didn't immediately respond he called.
He said he needed his license. I get that he needs his ID. He definitely needs it to close on a house and he better not be using any of OUR funds to do it. I suspect his dad will give him the money.
It just seriously??? I just reclaimed my space and I DO NOT want to see you.
I ended up texting if I could mail to his parents house or work out a time this weekend. If that doesn't work I'm agreeable leaving it the mailbox as long as he comes after dark and doesn't come up to the house.
The conversation via text went on WAY longer that it needed to.... He sucked up too much of my time tonight.
Bottom line is stuff will be left for him on the porch again. He does not get to see or hear from me while he is here. And, I hope he has enough class not to be bringing OW to my home like she was just there for ride....
-------------------------------
Why is he engaging me so much in text???? I know I know I know... I'm plan B.
Back to the socks!
Now he is texting he wants to get bike and boat this weekend...
I want to vomit... I'm actually crying and since starting ADs ii haven't been able to shed a tear....
I want to scream... what about what I want?????
And not a d*mn thing about the puppy.
Why can't I let go of that d*mm motorcycle?????
It's like the moment its not there my heart will sink. That was our bike.
I just want scream and yell at him... that's my bike... that's our bike...
I know he says to her that he loves her... she is his gf... He won't say that to me but I know that is what he tells her.
Its killing me not to say how much I want his stuff to stay...
I hate him so much right now. I really do.
Ok... back to knitting socks.
Flip the script... I must flip the script.
I'm smart - got my doctorate in 6yr. I'm accomplished - I've been in my field for 27yr and at this same business for over 30... I know my clients AND their kids. I work hard. I am amazing mom. I was a good stepmom. I totally love doing laundry, the more the better! I keep a very clean house. I'm a decent cook but a very good baker. I'm a fabulous caretaker. Im working out more and getting stronger. I have THE cutest little feet... seriously little... lol. I get compliments on my looks. I can handle finances and taxes.
I'm getting my head around this... it's a marathon and it just started.
I can't be holding onto the boat or the bike... that's behaving like plan b. The sooner he move it the better right???
Fake it till I make it. Because that is gut wrenching.
I had it in me to kick him out... but I was in denial that that meant the stuff left too
I thought a hard stance would be his wake up call.
It's all I can do to not text him tonight and ask what I could have done that he would have stayed. What's the one thing that he would have stopped in his tracks to see our 10yr was worth keeping.
Tomorrow is another day.
Things aren't important. Motorcycle=things.
I think you may be projecting on the motorcycle. You are deep down afraid of him riding it with OW on it. In your mind as long as it is there, then he isn't "sharing" it with her. KC, that is a form of trying to control him, it, and the affair. You cannot.
Dropping the rope means letting him and all of his things go. Not caring what he is doing and who he is doing it with. Look, it is ok to struggle with this stuff. We all do. What you shouldn't do is be so focused on him and his stuff that you don't see light at the end of the emotional spiral tunnel. Keep advancing towards that light. Believe it or not one day you will emerge from that tunnel and even if he came begging back you'd tell him to kick rocks. That is your goal.
You've been doing better, but you still have a hold tight on that rope and on wanting to R with this lying cheater. I think deep down there is a part of you that is still in denial about his lying and cheating.
Repeat: He is a lying cheater. And doesn't deserve me!
You should be saying that to yourself over and over and over again. Until you believe it.
I thought a hard stance would be his wake up call.
Expectations will kill you every time. DROP ALL EXPECTATIONS.
"He is a lying cheater and doesn't deserve me."
Things aren't important. Motorcycle=things.
I think you may be projecting on the motorcycle. You are deep down afraid of him riding it with OW on it. In your mind as long as it is there, then he isn't "sharing" it with her. KC, that is a form of trying to control him, it, and the affair. You cannot.
Dropping the rope means letting him and all of his things go. Not caring what he is doing and who he is doing it with. Look, it is ok to struggle with this stuff. We all do. What you shouldn't do is be so focused on him and his stuff that you don't see light at the end of the emotional spiral tunnel. Keep advancing towards that light. Believe it or not one day you will emerge from that tunnel and even if he came begging back you'd tell him to kick rocks. That is your goal.
You've been doing better, but you still have a hold tight on that rope and on wanting to R with this lying cheater. I think deep down there is a part of you that is still in denial about his lying and cheating.
Repeat: He is a lying cheater. And doesn't deserve me!
You should be saying that to yourself over and over and over again. Until you believe it.
Thank you.
Trust me. I know he is a lying cheater. I was nauseous most of the afternoon digesting his actions and how there is no remorse for what he is doing.
I sit on his words - acknowledging that I was probably right that he should not have given up. And, I say to myself that those are just words trying to appease me.
I had so many plans for that bike and my H this summer. They were all in my head and if I had just shared them he would have known I still had interest in him.
I know its stuff. What he does with his stuff is his business. I cannot control that.
As much as I wanted to be strong and kick him out and be the tough girl. I'm still dealing with a horrible loss and sadly still wearing my heart on my sleeve. AND, he knows it... crap!!!!
I am NOT doing myself any favors. I'm just making it worse. The text exchanges continue and I've lost all my power again... he is holding the upper hand over me.
I will get through this... I will get through this..
I thought a hard stance would be his wake up call.
Expectations will kill you every time. DROP ALL EXPECTATIONS.
"He is a lying cheater and doesn't deserve me."
Yup... I had expectations... BUSTED!!! :-)
Let go of the rope... Let go of the rope...
I need to write out 100times that H loves HER... before responding to anything he does. Maybe that will help my framework.
Today is busted and all ready in the dust at 9:30am... I need to figure out how to recover from the slew of texts yesterday and today.
While he said I was probably right about not giving up on me... believe nothing he says... HIS ACTIONS SHOW HE HAS NO CONCERN for letting himself get burned out of me and falling for OW. He is with her not me. He is concerned for her not me.
[banging head against the desk]
I can do this... I can do this... I can do this...
Not very proud of myself right now.
I'm still trying to control the situation.
H was supposed to drop things off when he picked up stuff. I called about it and H said they were in the truck and he didn't drive the truck.... WHAT???
I immediately went to who did you bring to the house?
H said no one but we all know he is liar and a cheater. I stooped so low to ask who's car... UGH... I know.
H went back to his typical "does it matter?". That is my old H when he is questioned.... since the sitch started he has not responded like that AT ALL.
I argued only briefly and he called me out of on it. GRRRRRRR....
He also said I was putting him down but I didn't think of anything I said that was a put down. I was just asking for the garage openers but he is now refusing to give them. No matter... the overhead door is on lockdown. He can't use them anyway.
SOOOOOOO not proud of myself.
Today's Positives
1) Beautiful sunny afternoon.
2) I have a job that I go to while many do not.
3) I'm enjoying knitting socks.
I will get through this. i'm stronger than I know.
Digesting the last of the texts
H: arguing with me and putting me down is not amicable.
Me: You felt I was putting you down?
H: Everytime you say "I feel".
Me: ok I will work on that. I dont remember stating anything with you feel but I will he more mindful.
Sometime later.
H: KC, I am trying to respect you wishes. Also understand that I have thing at the house that i will need. I am try not to interrupt your life, but also understand I will be moving soon "I hope" when I do we will go through everything and dividing everything. I would prefer we do that alone with no one else there.
He used by name... he is trying to appeal to me genuinely.
It gets to me... but not to him. He is in love with OW.
I have to work on being detached. I have to get my crap together and be business like.
I swear I was in a good place until he texted and then called yesterday.
Help me get back on that wagon.
Hi KitCat,
I got 36hr before he texted and since I didn't immediately respond he called.
Why did you answer?
H was supposed to drop things off when he picked up stuff. I called
You touched the oven again, twice. Avoiding conversations is your best shot to detach, gal, not make things worse, and let him miss you. This is tough stuff. We all have days where we goof. Time to reset. (:
Hi KitCat,
I got 36hr before he texted and since I didn't immediately respond he called.
Why did you answer?
H was supposed to drop things off when he picked up stuff. I called
You touched the oven again, twice. Avoiding conversations is your best shot to detach, gal, not make things worse, and let him miss you. This is tough stuff. We all have days where we goof. Time to reset. (:
I only answered because he needs his ID... the rest of the stuff he doesnt need.
Yes... there was no need for additional texts or calls...
When he didnt leave the stuff I should have let it go and not bothered.
I see my mistakes.
Its supposed to rain all weekend and that should prohibit him from getting bike and boat... it should give me a minimum of of 4 days of no contact from him.
Its supposed to rain all weekend and that should prohibit him from getting bike and boat... it should give me a minimum of of 4 days of no contact from him.
If you choose not to respond for 4 days, you'll have that for sure. (:
KC, any monkey's uncle could say, "Doh! You shouldn't have contacted him." While intellectually this is one of the easiest phases, emotionally we almost all struggled with implementing it. Chin up!
You are getting stronger and we all see that.
I know I'm still getting sucked in ---- I know that is because I still want recon and I am not working in my own best interest.
He just sent information text that he put money in the bank. He already told me he was going to do it so there wasn't a need for a text ---- I think its his way of admitting his own part in todays fiasco... but then I'm speculating.
I did not respond. It was an information text only.
Here's to my next 4 days of silence.
I am chiming in here with an al-anon principle of giving someone the dignity to fail on their own. The more you try to fix and help and solve his problems, the less time and energy you spend on yourself. If he forgets his ID somewhere - he is an adult man and can get it himself!
(Conversely, give him room to succeed on his own, too)
DO not write out that he is in love with her. Who he is in love with doesn't matter.
That he is a lying cheater is what matters. Write that out. I think you still have him held up as some ideal, something to be desired. He is not.
I am chiming in here with an al-anon principle of giving someone the dignity to fail on their own. The more you try to fix and help and solve his problems, the less time and energy you spend on yourself. If he forgets his ID somewhere - he is an adult man and can get it himself!
(Conversely, give him room to succeed on his own, too)
I see what you are saying - its just he left it at the house and wanted to get it. I cannot deny him his ID?
Legally I cannot bar him from the house and while he is pushing back on that he did back down based on my principle of needing my own space through this. I tried making a point of saying I have no idea where he is and I'm not showing up there announced or otherwise.
Its way to early in our sitch for him to have a change of heart or regret. I get that. His mind is made up.
I'm trying hard to pull back. And, I do really good NOT contacting him first. However, I did a poor job of repeating his texts to him today. I need to take action and remove myself from his banter.
I'm trying to get my strength and work on my issues that caused our M to collapse. I'm focusing on my future. I know if he can give me 4 days of no contact... like I have been asking for so long it will help me. How many times do I have to ask for space???
I'm giving him his.
I know I still have a lot to work on.
DO not write out that he is in love with her. Who he is in love with doesn't matter.
That he is a lying cheater is what matters. Write that out. I think you still have him held up as some ideal, something to be desired. He is not.
I think telling myself that not only does he feel he does NOT love me and loves her --- is my way of accepting the situation??? At least that is what I thought. Accepting the current reality?
And, if I like many people who come here are struggling in the Ms and hoping for recon isn't it more like he is nothing to be desired right now?
Or, is the principle he will never change. He will never notice my absence or have regret? I know that he will never come back unless he fears he has lost me even at that?
I believe you gave your W a timeline... a frame in which things had to change or else?
My timeline is one year. When the legal s is over if he hasn't had that wake up call I will know to move on. Until then I am trying my best to drop the rope.
Its supposed to rain all weekend and that should prohibit him from getting bike and boat... it should give me a minimum of of 4 days of no contact from him.
More expectations.
Expecting him not to contact you.
Expecting it to rain.
Expecting that the bike and boat won't be gone.
Que sera, sera. (Whatever will be, will be.)
Life is 10% what happens, and 90% how you react to it.
How many times do I have to ask for space???
"How many times do I have to ask the sky to stop wetting my hair?" However many times it takes to realize that asking is ineffective, and to take personal ownership by carrying an umbrella.
Its supposed to rain all weekend and that should prohibit him from getting bike and boat... it should give me a minimum of of 4 days of no contact from him.
More expectations.
Expecting him not to contact you.
Expecting it to rain.
Expecting that the bike and boat won't be gone.
Que sera, sera. (Whatever will be, will be.)
Life is 10% what happens, and 90% how you react to it.
Crap ---- your right. :-(
All this expectation thing is kicking my backside.
And, I reacted terribly last night and today... I just making his point for him on why we are done.
How many times do I have to ask for space???
"How many times do I have to ask the sky to stop wetting my hair?" However many times it takes to realize that asking is ineffective, and to take personal ownership by carrying an umbrella.
YES --- I can ignore his texts/calls
What do I do when he demands to get something... I have no right to prevent him access to???
I do not wanting him showing up with the police or anything.
I am chiming in here with an al-anon principle of giving someone the dignity to fail on their own. The more you try to fix and help and solve his problems, the less time and energy you spend on yourself. If he forgets his ID somewhere - he is an adult man and can get it himself!
(Conversely, give him room to succeed on his own, too)
I see what you are saying - its just he left it at the house and wanted to get it. I cannot deny him his ID?
Legally I cannot bar him from the house and while he is pushing back on that he did back down based on my principle of needing my own space through this. I tried making a point of saying I have no idea where he is and I'm not showing up there announced or otherwise.
Its way to early in our sitch for him to have a change of heart or regret. I get that. His mind is made up.
I'm trying hard to pull back. And, I do really good NOT contacting him first. However, I did a poor job of repeating his texts to him today. I need to take action and remove myself from his banter.
I'm trying to get my strength and work on my issues that caused our M to collapse. I'm focusing on my future. I know if he can give me 4 days of no contact... like I have been asking for so long it will help me. How many times do I have to ask for space???
I'm giving him his.
I know I still have a lot to work on.
I didn't say deny him his ID or bar him from the house - letting him solve his own problems means no actual involvement at all. If you are really wanting to resolve this ID situation, mail it to him. It seems you are not really examining the gray area - everything seems black and white. Either you're being super nice to him, or swinging the other way and being petty. Both take energy. I understand ignoring him takes energy now, too. You deserve your own attention and energy way more than he does.
Echoing CW's sentiment: he doesn't GIVE you space, you TAKE your own space and ignore him, regardless of what he does. Block his number, put notifications off, etc. etc. If you feel you want to reply, either make yourself wait 24 hours or write it down and burn it.
I did say I could mail the ID... but then he continued to text and went off the deep end stating he would get x, y, z.. But I do see what you are saying about just letting things go.
I'm not sure what to do or say about the next issue - We Share A Calendar on our phones.
He is still using this calendar and I can everything he is adding to it. Surely he has not forgotten its a shared calender??? He sees things that I add and at one point 4 weeks ago mentioned to S18 about his competition that weekend. He would have never remembered if he hadn't seen it on the calendar.
He hadn't been using it for a month... NOW he is using it a ton.
He put a vacation to WV on it for 5 days. He has put his phone consult with free atty one month from today.
This is just weird.
He must have spaced that this is a shared calendar????
Again - I now I am giving him too much credit and thought. I will just be quiet and maybe he will figure it out.
I do not wanting him showing up with the police or anything.
When I had issues with anxiety, one of the exercises they had me do was to visualize these "catastrophic" scenarios. You often realize they aren't as catastrophic as you initially worried. Imagine: 1. He bangs on the door unannounced. "I want in NOW to get my toothbrush. It's urgent. I'll get cavities!!" 2. He didn't give you advance notice of his visit. You happen to be in your bedroom with the door closed and your headphones on. 3. He calls the police non-emergency line. 4. The police come 40min later and he says the door his front door is locked and blames you. 5. You police rev their sirens, shout, etc. 6. You open the door. You tell him, "Oh! I had my headphones on. Wish I'd known you were coming" You tell the police, "Sorry for the bother. I didn't know he was moving things out today."
What do I do when he demands to get something... I have no right to prevent him access to???
::2hrs later:: "Okay--give me a few hours' heads-up before you head over."
did say I could mail the ID... but then he continued to text and went off the deep end stating he would get x, y, z..
If your phone is set to hide alerts, it's usually be 2-4hrs before you see each message anyway.
CW -
I'm being too accomadating.
I am being too fearful of the outcome.
I started out being cool that when he said he needed his ID I replied over an hour later with just OK.
That was good. But once I agreed he started snowballing with this that and the other... I again tried to play it cool by stating this was a very busy time let's try for the weekend... AGAIN I know I did well.
But more snowballing from him and it was game over for me... I reacted by baulking and saying no... and he upped his game.
He is still asking about the financial order. He is expecting me to lift it. Of course I can use the excuse that courts are closed but then he told me to talk to the broker. I could use the excuse he is out of town due to spring break this week.
I tried telling him that whatever money he uses before assest are divided that I would then own this house with him. That is what my atty is telling me. She is stating he not use any marital assets to buy this house. I'm not sure what his free atty is telling him.
If he wants out so badly go rent a 2 bedroom apartment so he is not so cramped/complaining about her 1 bedroom apt. Who goes out and buys a house when nothing has been settled with the court??
When I brought it up last night about how he can't sell the boat right now he seemed confused. Like we have already divided up assets verbally and its all a done deal. He lectured me on why legal s wasn't an option because I would be unable to sell the house during that time but suddenly he can sell the boat?
Is this just more of the fantasyland that WH live in?
I'm not lifting the financial order.
KC,
Now that you have a lawyer, any legal questions should be handled by the lawyers. One thing that you need to do is stop attempting to reason w/him over anything, especially the financial/asset side of the everything. If he has any questions concerning the financial order and why your lawyer is against giving him money to purchase another home, then he should be directing his frustration and questions to his own legal counsel.
About him coming to the home and getting things. Have him give you a list of what he wants, then set those things somewhere safe, schedule a time for pick up and remind him that you are only going to compile what is on that list. Be sure you keep a copy of that list and take photos of what he is picking up. Advise him that you need a date and time for the pick up and if he misses that opportunity, then another date and time will need to be scheduled. I would also make sure that my son was there as a witness to the pick up of items.
As for the shared calendar...I would suggest you stop posting on that calendar and if there is a way tor remove that app from your phone, then by all means do so. He may very well be posting stuff on there just so that you can see it and get you all spun up over the postings. There's no rhyme or reason for what they do...but they are really good at aggravating us. So, take control and delete that app from your phone.
As for replying to texts, read them and determine if they really require a response. If they do, then reply back at a later time. If it's an emergency, then reply as quickly as possible...but otherwise, leave them until later.
Please, please stop trying to rationalize w/this man. You can't do it because he doesn't want to hear it right now. He is a desperate man who wants everything done his way and it's not going to happen. He figures that the more he badgers you, that one day soon you will finally give in. They are like 2 years olds who want everything their way and will continue to annoy "mom" until "mom" gives in.
You have more control over things than you think. Take back the control...stop telling him you need time and space. That is just fueling his fire to annoy the h*ll out of you. Just take that time and space back. Actions speak louder than words. Remember...your words are falling on deaf ears right now.
Good morning, KitCat. How's the day treating you?
I'm doing okay.
Work is slow today. I'm kind of cutting off my mom and limiting contact with friends. My mom has the best intentions but any time I blow off steam about H I'm inundated with lengthy texts about contacting atty, getting a protective order, change his address to his parents so I can get him off auto insurance, blah blah blah.
I'm overwhelmed on a good day and the bad days I just cave to what I eventually think are bad decisions made out of anxiety.
I need a clear head.
I'm willing to take steps to protect myself financially and I have done that. Paperwork is filed. I'm in no rush to hurry this along... the slower the better right? Give us more time to see if I continue to want recon or he continues to want to move on. Either one of us could change our minds at any time.
I want to stop the negative interactions. That's 100% up to me. To stop engaging him. If I can to give him what he wants (obviously not releasing funds for him to buy a house.)
I'm working out everyday until it hurts so much I cry.
And, I'm dealing with the old adage becareful what you wish for... :-) I asked to be left alone and I will most likely get it and it will probably drive me a little nuts that he is respecting my wishes for a change.
Trying to keep that smile on my face.
DO not write out that he is in love with her. Who he is in love with doesn't matter.
That he is a lying cheater is what matters. Write that out. I think you still have him held up as some ideal, something to be desired. He is not.
I think telling myself that not only does he feel he does NOT love me and loves her --- is my way of accepting the situation??? At least that is what I thought. Accepting the current reality?
And, if I like many people who come here are struggling in the Ms and hoping for recon isn't it more like he is nothing to be desired right now?
Or, is the principle he will never change. He will never notice my absence or have regret? I know that he will never come back unless he fears he has lost me even at that?
I believe you gave your W a timeline... a frame in which things had to change or else?
My timeline is one year. When the legal s is over if he hasn't had that wake up call I will know to move on. Until then I am trying my best to drop the rope.
My wife wasn't sleeping with another man, getting listed as his wife in an obituary and telling me she didn't even consider it cheating because she didn't feel married anymore.
When you frame it that he is in love with someone else it is like you are letting him off the hook. "He can't help it, he's in love with someone else, not me."
That's crap. You said this has been going on for 8 weeks? That ain't love. That's lust. That's infatuation. That's limerance.
He's a lying cheater. And you shouldn't even be one open to R until such time he is no longer a lying cheater. And even then he should have to prove it through a longgggggggg period of consistent behavior. Like, after another 3 months he realizes he screwed up, you start the clock and if he consistently is not a lying cheater for 9-12 months then you consider R, but only with conditions that he you give him zero tolerance on.
My wife wasn't sleeping with another man, getting listed as his wife in an obituary and telling me she didn't even consider it cheating because she didn't feel married anymore.
When you frame it that he is in love with someone else it is like you are letting him off the hook. "He can't help it, he's in love with someone else, not me."
That's crap. You said this has been going on for 8 weeks? That ain't love. That's lust. That's infatuation. That's limerance.
He's a lying cheater. And you shouldn't even be one open to R until such time he is no longer a lying cheater. And even then he should have to prove it through a longgggggggg period of consistent behavior. Like, after another 3 months he realizes he screwed up, you start the clock and if he consistently is not a lying cheater for 9-12 months then you consider R, but only with conditions that he you give him zero tolerance on.
I get it.
When I first mentioned that someone else listed him as their spouse he acted like WTF... went on to state that only person listed as his spouse was me. When it came to light exactly what I was talking about he insisted that he was listed as her boyfriend. I said do you know how lame that sounds - that you are married/I am your spouse but you have a girlfriend?? I let it go after that. He clearly doesn't care.
My H will take the path of least resistance... even if this relationship fails... which even he predicted it was not a smart idea to sleep with her and any relationship wouldn't last... whatever...
It would be far to hard to come back to me, beg for me and chase me... He knew all along that my deal breaker was cheating. But, I am 100% aware that I left him on empty for a long time. That doesn't excuse his choices but I accept my role. I'm owning it... I doing what I can to change myself and find that woman that he fell hard in love with. I really miss her too.
I'm still in the mode to save my M. If he clearly came back and wanted to sincerely do whatever it took to make amends I would be open to that...
One of the things when you are with someone for 10yr is you know them... you really know them... and I see a pattern with my H. While he seemed to acknowledge my feelings that I was probably right in that he should have never given up on me --- he did. Now, I never know what to believe if ever.
I 90% certain my H will not come back.
I will keep moving forward and try to enjoy a few days without him contacting me.
I'm kind of cutting off my mom and limiting contact with friends. My mom has the best intentions but any time I blow off steam about H I'm inundated with lengthy texts about contacting atty, getting a protective order, change his address to his parents so I can get him off auto insurance, blah blah blah.
I have the same issues here with my mum. I haven’t spoken to her hardly in a year because she has always treated H poorly and with disrespect. And I hate that I let that happen and didn’t stand up for him (because I don’t like confrontation with her as she would go off and cry and make out she’d done nothing wrong and that I was the bad guy for upsetting her). Since the separation 2 weeks ago, I texted her to tell her he’d left, she started replying with a few supportive messages but these quickly turned into anti-H messages, such as urging me to not let him see the children because of C-19. It was nothing to do about the children, it was about punishing him. After her multitude of texts of screenshots of govt advice and regulations (all of which I knew already) I said, I’m not stopping them seeing him END OF. I’ve never cut her off like that before, and it felt good. And I haven’t spoken to her since. I can’t bring myself to contact her because of her toxic behaviours. It’s really sad
Hang in there and if it feels better not to talk with her, then don’t put yourself through more anxiety by doing so.
From OS2 thread:
She said she doesn't see a future with OM.
My H said the same thing - that it wouldn't be a good idea if he slept with OW and that any relationship wouldn't work long term... even took a moment and said nope, wouldn't work.
Are they saying this because they know they are just looking for a short term fix for their pain OR is it all about keeping us as plan B?
Its probably NOT worth mulling over but seeing that in someone else's thread triggered me.
H also had the same brief convo with me 3 times in 24hr - twice on phone and then in person. Is that to convince himself? Could he have seen I've dropped 15lb... that I'm working on myself again, finally... and its in anger?
CW- you speak that he still has attachment to me?
Steve85 - He has to feel he has lost me before he would ever if even get his crap together?
OK. That was my 15min of alloted time to mull this over today. Heading to work today, exercise remains top priority in these lockdown times, clean house, play with dogs, knit.
Over and out.
Ugh... patience is wavering...
My brain knows it's way to early in my sitch to expect any changes.
Anything he might see and feel in me is too early to trust. He has no fear of losing me. His last words to me last week is that he was trying to respect my wishes.
I've had this strong urge to ask him to call so we could talk... why???? Even if he agreed to call to talk I dont have any idea what I would say to him so it all seems silly... is it to see if hei would even talk at all?
I want to text that since he is not paying off the cars could he move that money back to other acct?
What does it matter? Am I being controlling?
I know I'm type A personality. I know I have a strong need for neat and tidy.
KK,
IMO the single most unproductive and damaging thing a LBS can do it hang onto a WWs words. Unfortunately this is quite common.
Right now especially being type A you are under the "illusion of action" where you feel you have to do something To convince him that staying with you is the right choice.
If you want to so something then your action should be to drop the rope and let him go. Lead a kick a$$ life. At some point he is likely to have second thoughts about his decision. If you're leading a great life he will be tempted. If you have made no improvements and are offering the same relationship he will likely keep moving forward.
Do not contact him for anything.
KK,
IMO the single most unproductive and damaging thing a LBS can do it hang onto a WWs words. Unfortunately this is quite common.
Right now especially being type A you are under the "illusion of action" where you feel you have to do something To convince him that staying with you is the right choice.
If you want to so something then your action should be to drop the rope and let him go. Lead a kick a$$ life. At some point he is likely to have second thoughts about his decision. If you're leading a great life he will be tempted. If you have made no improvements and are offering the same relationship he will likely keep moving forward.
Do not contact him for anything.
Thank you...
I know I was very tempted today especially about the money he has moved around and not paying off the cars as he said he would.
But, he needs to feel my absence.
I need to let go.
If he misses me at all it will be a very long time from now as he is giving his all to OW.
I will continue NC
Sooo observations on how things are different in the last week:
Contact prior to being 100% gone was limited/brief. I was guilty of hovering at times which was not good. But, on the times I wasn't hovering I caught him seeking me out... he would try to be sly such as looking into the room very quickly to catch a glimpse of me to know that I was there. Walking though out the house to... oh there you are... blah blah blah... oh your heading out... blah blah blah.
They say for every negative encounter it requires 5 positive ones to counteract it. So I was trying to make bank that the brief positives times would start to out stack the negative ones.
Now that he is 100% out of the house there are literally no interactions. There are text exchanges but texts can be difficult to navigate. You cannot interpret tone in a text message. Its easy for someone already primed with negative thoughts to take even the most simple text message as threat/disrespect. Yes, there have been a few phone calls but seeing how I am not detached emotion can end up being a run away train. I'm grateful that in all phone calls (save one where he hung up on me) I have been the one to end the call.
I try very hard to not be the last one to text in any exchange. That's a 180 for me... having to to have the last word. So I let them hang if I feel that anything I add does not require a response and make sure I do not leave it as the last one.
I suppose there is more mystery for him that he is not here? Some might suggest that. To me its seems out of sight out of mind and he is able to focus more on what is the here and now for him which is OW. Its just there is no increased contact from his end now that he is out of the house.
So if you are musing in your sitch whether its better for the spouse to be in the home or out. I would have to say in despite the fact that yes I needed to kick mine to the curb. At least even in the brief 10-30min of contact you can't tell me he hasn't noticed I wear a new perfume and I've lost 15lb. Even if you don't like someone you do tend to notice those things.
My H truly dispieses his first EW not so much for what happened to their M but more the following 10yr where she spent so much time and energy keeping his kids from him. But, before we were M we were at an event with the kids and he noticed how much weight she had lost and commented. It wasn't something she maintained as she quickly ballooned in all the years that followed. So I know he must see it... but doesn't trust me that the 180s will stick this time.
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Outside of that I am working on what some people refer to as a clean slate message. Not with the intent of giving to H or least not anywhere in the near future for sure. H doesn't like to read ramblings so I have to work on a message that is compact, concise and meaningful. I'm looking for 3-5 sentences max. I'm a wordy girl so that will be a challenge.
I'm struggling today with no contact. I keep picking up my phone with the thoughts:
Since you are not paying off the vehicles right now would you consider moving the funds back to the other account.
I can't get the clean button to turn off on the Ninja - I guess I'm just going to have very clean coffee!
I cannot open that can of worms. I cannot have his phone go off when he is with OW and its me. That would be so lame and humiliating not to mention create yet another bonding experience for them.
I'm trying to let go of all expectations. That is difficult. I work in a field where if you X you expect Y. I've never had the best in patience. Even in my professional career of 30yr I often still get nervous and don't let treatment have enough time before re-evaluating/changing course - I want things better and I want them better now! In contrast my H has been instant gratification guru. It led to some issues early on in our M and he recognizes this is true and I have to say I've seem improvement over the years. To the point when he whined and complained about wanting a new truck I just said go get one. Go pick out what you want and what you will be happy with and we will make it work. Funny... I got all kinds of excuses why he should wait due this/that. Sadly I feel that OW is more of his instant gratification popping back up.
I'm still working on knitting socks. I hope to have 2 complete pairs in a couple of more days. Cleaning the house. Its been a challenging weekend with the puppy. 6 months, 60 pounds and loose stools... yup, you get the picture. Didn't call/text H once to complain OR ask for help. I realized that if he were interested he would have been here. And, I've picked up an online coach. Goals are to work on myself and increase my emotional attraction.
I will keep reminding myself to stay in NC
KC - good job on not giving in on those calls!
Hi KitCat, love you're self-policing that those aren't good reasons to reach out and are staying dark.
To me its seems out of sight out of mind and he is able to focus more on what is the here and now for him which is OW.
As they spend time together without breaks, their "grass-is-greener" illusions of one another may vanish, and they'll see more clearly what each other offers. You often see a WWS with an AP calling their LBS to complain about their day, because they need to tell someone, but don't want to risk turning off their AP.
If you manage no-contact, he may begin to realize feelings he blamed you for are actually internal to him. My ex realized her feeling exhausted and super-messed-up were due to her disease and not me and sought medical help. I realized nobody could fill my need for validation--that could only come from within.
Again, I see your strength, and I'm loving where you are going.
Ok clearly quarantine is getting to me much like Jack N in the shining...
Inside my head:
So I wondered WHY I wasn't DBing from the very get go of the BD? I had been here before. What was holding me back? What was making it so difficult?
Last time my H never moved out and while he had a realtor and looked at houses we shared the same bed and he was home every night. We still talked about basics... work... when he was working over. Nothing financially had changed.
I won't lie it was still a lot of hard work last time.
So why this time was I dragging my feet with something that I knew would be the only way to get back on track? Was it this time he was leaving... finances were changing... he was really buying that house... we stopped talking basics... now there was OW?
Was I overwhelmed? I think I looking back I felt this time he was TRULY gone. There was no hope of reversal... he had given me a second chance and I had squandered it. And, ultimately did I have it in me to do the work really necessary and give it the time it required to save my M?
I think if I couldn't get it back immediately what was the point??? That if I kicked him out and he didn't have this Aha moment and want to work it out would it ever??? Would there ever be a chance that he would remember why he married me???
That's a lot to struggle with AND THEN>>>>>>>
I think back to myself and previous relationships that have ended. I've chased terribly. I've begged and pleaded in the past. I done foolish things like finding out information about them, etc etc. I did terribly needy things to push them out the door. Not proud but I can admit being immature at the demise or rejection in the past.
Of course I have stated to my H that this is not what I want. That this is not the solution to our problems. That he shouldn't have given up on me. That I did cry in the beginning but not since. But, I haven't snooped outside of what is not just laid out in front of me. I left him alone for days at a time. I am not the one to call or text first. I don't always DB like I should but I'm not slamming him with a dozen texts when he doesn't pick up the phone.
Why is that? Why is my behavior so much different that what is "normal" for me? Is it because this one really matters??? Is it because deep down despite resenting the work that lies ahead of me he is totally worth the fight? Is our M worth that fight?
Clearly the easy route is to accept the friend zone. Its been offered... If that were the case I could call or text daily. I wouldn't care so much what he thought. We could casually discuss D and start sorting out who gets the juicer or the smoker... etc.
What's my motivation? What's putting me in a place that rather than figure out which account the funds should stay in until used I'm letting it go AND not texting him over it?... that a simple logistics text that makes sense for us is less important than letting him feel my absence?
I'm letting go WAY sooner than I would at any other relationship demise. Maybe not truly detached and dropping the rope per say but I'm really doing my absolute best to save the M.
Maybe I should ask them to up my medication???? :-)
Hi KitCat, love you're self-policing that those aren't good reasons to reach out and are staying dark.
To me its seems out of sight out of mind and he is able to focus more on what is the here and now for him which is OW.
As they spend time together without breaks, their "grass-is-greener" illusions of one another may vanish, and they'll see more clearly what each other offers. You often see a WWS with an AP calling their LBS to complain about their day, because they need to tell someone, but don't want to risk turning off their AP.
If you manage no-contact, he may begin to realize feelings he blamed you for are actually internal to him. My ex realized her feeling exhausted and super-messed-up were due to her disease and not me and sought medical help. I realized nobody could fill my need for validation--that could only come from within.
Again, I see your strength, and I'm loving where you are going.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Like I said earlier... becareful what you wish for... i have had no contact from him at all.
I'm still in a terrible struggle... I still want to text... I have this terrible need touch base and ask if his extended family are doing ok. I hope this passes soon.
Interestingly in the last week I have noticed he has taken every call I have made to him. Now most of those times we were texting and I just found it easier to call. But last Thursday I called 3 times with logistics issues and he answered every single time.
I know dont read anything into it... period. It's just speculation. Like why he feels my asking for the garage openers is a control thing.
Happy Birthday H. I miss you.
Genuine fear...
I truly wanted to reach out to H yesterday. Its been 4 days NC. Wanted to know if he/family is being affected by the virus.
I have a client not much older than me on a ventilator.
I work in a field that should be locked down to urgent care only but we are not. We are seeing routine healthy visits and that continues to put me and the rest of the staff here at higher risk than necessary. We don't have masks. I'm trying to keep my distance but it is impossible not to have to get close at times and handle things they have touched.
The fear is real. I leave my home everyday and I'm risking my life with routine stuff. I'm totally on board with being available for urgent care items - that's my job and oath I took.
I just want to let H know. I want that shoulder of support. I know its completely stupid. He is not mine for emotional support. It hurts even more under these circumstances.
His puppy was ill all weekend. I had to clean up stompped in feces more than once with complete breakdown of cage, scrubbing and then cleaning the dog. That was followed by cleaning up tons of vomitting. Being up all night dealing with vomitting and now leaving him all day so I can be at work.
I was brave, exhausted and emotionally torn up. I did not give in even once to text H about anything.
I have to remind myself that he also has not checked in to see if he needs to help with puppy. I realize that I have forced his hand to leave me alone and give me space - so yes I asked him to stop contacting me. But, even before then not a hint about this dog or what I needed. I realize his selfishness. I'm angry at it. I realize this puppy is mine. I'm the one its bonded too.
I suppose this pandemic is making it harder on me emotionally.
I told myself on the way to work that I am the gem. I am the one to be valued. I am the prize. I am worthy.
Give him a deadine on the puppy. "You have until X date to get the puppy or he will be rehomed."
Sorry about the fear. I can't really speak to it because I do not fear the virus. Life to me is a trip, not the final destination. I actually am much more fearful of people and society's reaction to the virus. But that is just me and my perspective, I can't expect everyone to approach the way I do.
I want to thank you for working in the medical field through the pandemic. Obviously take all of the precautions necessary.
I told myself on the way to work that I am the gem. I am the one to be valued. I am the prize. I am worthy.
Yes, you are. You are the prize, you are the one to be valued. Keep telling yourself that every day, every hour. Your self-worth is far more than he will have you believe. You are doing an amazing job, looking after you, looking after a puppy, and looking after the people in your community. You have no idea what a gem you are to all those people right now, but you are. Stay strong and stay safe. And thank you for putting yourself in such a vulnerable place for our safety around the world. {{ Hugs }} x
Give him a deadine on the puppy. "You have until X date to get the puppy or he will be rehomed."
Sorry about the fear. I can't really speak to it because I do not fear the virus. Life to me is a trip, not the final destination. I actually am much more fearful of people and society's reaction to the virus. But that is just me and my perspective, I can't expect everyone to approach the way I do.
I want to thank you for working in the medical field through the pandemic. Obviously take all of the precautions necessary.
Steve if it were just me... then what happens happens..
But what happens to my son??? I'm all he has right now. Leaving him at a young age to navigate to world without his mother is something I wouldn't wish on anyone.
My safety and well being is 100% to keep my son safe.
I have accepted that the puppy is mine. We went into together to have this puppy - our last puppy, his hunting dog, the replacement for the companion he lost. He knows I never expected to raise this puppy alone. We both had demanding work schedules but between the two of us we had been getting the job done. I will not re-home the dog. I am committed to making this work. The burden along with the added stress of the S and A, crazy work schedule, pandemnic it was not ideal for me at all. BUT, that puppy is bonded to me - he has a forever home.
Ok....I don't see why you wouldn't want D at this point but I guess that is your choice.
KitCat, I’m so sorry that you have to go to work with a fear of getting sick yourself. I’ve read about doctors going home and living in tents outside of their homes!! I wish there were more protective gear for everyone who’s on the front lines.
And it’s terrible that under such circumstances you can’t even reach out to the one person you thought would be there for you.....
Hoping you and your son continue to stay healthy and safe through all of this. You will come out stronger.
Ok....I don't see why you wouldn't want D at this point but I guess that is your choice.
Your right its semantics...
Right now with the court we are in legal S ---- he hasn't changed it yet. He acted like he wasn't going to but even if he wanted the courts are closed right now. That's why I said S.
While my H has waffled back and forth over time and even at one point stated that we are getting D. That legal S states that the M could be saved and he knows we are getting D, I've always said I wanted legal S. I want a cooling off period. I want time apart. I have never wavered. I have been consistent when he asks over and over again why its so important to me.
Who knows... in the cooling off period I may just decide we have to D. I just don't want to make a decision based on a knee jerk reaction based solely on emotion. I want to make a decision without emotion and time apart will help me get to that place.
From his last text 4 days ago he is still planning on moving. I accept that he has no hope for a future with me. I would be dishonest to state that I hope that would change. While I have come to accept that only person I can control is myself and I have to get to a place where I have to be okay on my own, I have to have hope that maybe he would change his mind about our M.
Isn't that what I am to be doing? Hoping for the best and expecting the worst?
KC,
Please take every precaution to keep yourself safe and healthy. I have been watching the news every day and so many of the people on the front lines are scared and haven't gotten the supplies they needed. Wash your hands every chance you get and when you arrive home, (I know you are going to shake your head) strip down and take a shower before you do anything else and put those clothes in the wash as soon as possible. Also, leave your shoes outside to air. Call me over cautious, but it's the life we are living at the moment.
Yes, you hope for the best and plan for the worse. Continue to stay the course and do not contact him. If you get the itch to contact him, come here and post.
New Thread:
I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD Pt 8