Previous Thread:
Last resort technique?Here are the facts:
1) Seven months ago, I got the BD. I discover WW is having an EA. I beg/cry/plead with her to stop the EA and come back to our marriage, but she adamantly refuses, and she moves out of our home.
2) After 2-3 months of doing everything I'm not supposed to, I start pulling back, and I employ the last resort technique.
3) After another 2-3 months of that, I see she's still talking to the OM, so I decide to step it up and go dark (the "after the last resort" technique).
4) After going dark for 2 months, I contact her asking if she'd like to go to dinner with me. She accepts, we have an amazing time at dinner, we go back to my place, and we end up talking for 4 hours and we ultimately have sex. She tells me she's no longer talking to OM, that she misses me, and that she's very sorry for everything.
5) A couple of days later, I reach out to her to ask if she'd like to have dinner again. She declines, apologizes for sending me mixed signals, and says that she had a lapse in judgment. I foolishly try to reason with her about why having another dinner would be a good idea, and I impulsively call and text her (exactly the opposite of what I'm supposed to do). She, of course, maintains her cold and distant stance, and refuses to see me again.
I know I ruined it. I should not have pursued after the dinner. My question is: NOW WHAT? Is there any way to salvage this? I was so close.
If you have the desire, time and patience, repeat step-4... but this time do not pursue in step-5.
Your mistake was pursuit. Be patient, let her reach out and propose next step at her pace. You can only specify your requirements and boundaries, but you need to show strength to be attractive.
Nothing is ruined... if you read enough threads on this board, this is just how it goes. You were not that close
I've seen and heard similar things in my own sitch. They are confused, and anxious about going back to the old relationship. She was temp checking you, and throwing you breadcrums.
In the mean time, keep growing yourself... detach and GAL.
I mean this frankly, not to be mean, you may not have been "so close".
I would go back to not contacting her, especially since it seems like no kids are involved. It seems like she has some interest, or else she wouldn't talk your ear off for 4 hours. But she isn't ready to come back as you found out a couple days after your "date". I would take the mindset of you want your lady to want you, and if not then see ya later. Now I know this is hard bc it's your wife right? But she apparently doesn't think that title matters right now.
When she BD'd you, did she say she wanted a divorce?
And how do you know she still talks to OM? Snooping? I'd quit that. It sounds like you need some GAL to fill your days out and keep yourself occupied.
Hi Dbx80,
That [censored]. If it helps, I doubt you were as close as you think. If within 2 days of a great date she hasn't reached out to you, and when you call she's ready to decline another date and apologize for the mistake and mixed signals.. it doesn't seem like waiting another 5 days would've led to success.
Was your mistake the act of trying to reason and plead with someone who didn't want to date you--or being in a place that you feel the need to reason and plead with someone who doesn't want to date you?
I'm with OverTheRainbow--GAL--until that desperation melts away!
Feel your worth. Maybe she'll see it. If not, others will.
D,
I wish you would of kept posting. You have to treat your W like a cat. What happens when you chase a cat it runs away. Let her wander around the neighborhood and when she doesn’t hear from you she will get curious again. When she contacts you again invite her over and then hangout have fun and hook up. Rinse recycle and repeat. Let her come to you at her pace.
You didn't mess anything up. Just learn from it. Expect distance from her after something good and don't pursue at #5 again. You will have to find yourself by GAL and realizing you can live without her, but you may still want her. Become strong and confident.
I feel like I mess things up all the time, but its a marathon. Not a straight line. Never will be.
You have to treat your W like a cat. What happens when you chase a cat it runs away. Let her wander around the neighborhood and when she doesn’t hear from you she will get curious again. When she contacts you again invite her over and then hangout have fun and hook up. Rinse recycle and repeat. Let her come to you at her pace.
Wise words. Also, you do no want to hook up every time. Sometimes you need to send her away desiring you.
You're probably right about not being that close. Wishful thinking on my part, I suppose.
I will try step 4 again. Thanks!
I mean this frankly, not to be mean, you may not have been "so close".
I would go back to not contacting her, especially since it seems like no kids are involved. It seems like she has some interest, or else she wouldn't talk your ear off for 4 hours. But she isn't ready to come back as you found out a couple days after your "date". I would take the mindset of you want your lady to want you, and if not then see ya later. Now I know this is hard bc it's your wife right? But she apparently doesn't think that title matters right now.
When she BD'd you, did she say she wanted a divorce?
And how do you know she still talks to OM? Snooping? I'd quit that. It sounds like you need some GAL to fill your days out and keep yourself occupied.
Yes, she has said she wants a divorce.
Also, I knew she was still talking to OM in the past because she admitted to it when I asked her.
Was your mistake the act of trying to reason and plead with someone who didn't want to date you--or being in a place that you feel the need to reason and plead with someone who doesn't want to date you?
I guess I was just thinking that if we both had such a great time, it would be bonkers to NOT want to do it again. I guess she's bonkers. :-)
D,
I wish you would of kept posting. You have to treat your W like a cat. What happens when you chase a cat it runs away. Let her wander around the neighborhood and when she doesn’t hear from you she will get curious again. When she contacts you again invite her over and then hangout have fun and hook up. Rinse recycle and repeat. Let her come to you at her pace.
Thanks LH.
This past time, I was the one that reached out to her after going dark for 2 months. Are you saying I should go dark again, but I should NOT reach out to her after 2 months like I did before? I know her very well, and I feel that unless I reach out to her at some point, she'll never reach out to me. She's not assertive in that sense.
D,
If she wants to see you then she will find away to get in touch with you. If you’re ok with going dark for two months and then calling her up to get together for a roll in the hay and then reject you that’s ok too. I would think that would mess with your detachment.
The bottom line is if you want it to work out long term she has to put in the effort.
D,
If she wants to see you then she will find away to get in touch with you. If you’re ok with going dark for two months and then calling her up to get together for a roll in the hay and then reject you that’s ok too. I would think that would mess with your detachment.
The bottom line is if you want it to work out long term she has to put in the effort.
Thanks LH. I feel like the only reason she rejected me this time around was because I pursued her 2 days after the dinner date. Maybe if I hadn't pursued her at all after the "date", she could have been more inclined to contact me for another dinner? As I see it, I have two options:
Option 1: Go dark again, contact her in 2 months asking for a dinner date, go on the date if she accepts, enjoy the date, and then immediately go dark again after the date (until she initiates contact again).
Option 2: Go dark again, and just wait until she initiates contact (which could be months and months and months, or never).
Thoughts?
DBX80 -
Option-2. This is how going dark and no contact works. You have to let her go thru her own journey. You can't be desperate and worry that she will never reach out.
My WW reaches out all the time when I don't reach out. She said the same thing as your WW. I finally gave up and moved on because I don't see any personal growth or changes in behavior in her, and I realized we will just fall back into the same pattern of lies as before. Trust the board... this is all very predictable based on previous threads.
Search YouTube for The Love Chat and Dating Guy. Both have tons of materials on how no contact works. Both of those resources helped me a ton in gaining strength during no contact. They also are not as sale pitch as some of the other channels for their knowledge.
D,
If she wants to see you then she will find away to get in touch with you. If you’re ok with going dark for two months and then calling her up to get together for a roll in the hay and then reject you that’s ok too. I would think that would mess with your detachment.
The bottom line is if you want it to work out long term she has to put in the effort.
She texted me about the coronavirus, telling me I should stock up on groceries and to stay safe.
I took that opportunity (since she reached out to me unprompted) to ask if she wanted to get dinner. She said "maybe another day."
Should I do anything when she contacts me out of nowhere?
She's stated she wants to be "friends". How to respond?
Although the original OM is now out of the picture, she has stated that she's chatting with other guys online. Is this hopeless?
Your response should have been “great text me when your free to get together”.
“I’m sorry I’m not interested in being friends with you.”
It’s not hopeless but it probably isn’t going change until she fears she may lose you.
I took that opportunity (since she reached out to me unprompted) to ask if she wanted to get dinner. She said "maybe another day."
Should I do anything when she contacts me out of nowhere?
You took the opportunity to pursue... DO NOT pursue. Did she ask you a question or a statement? A response is not even necessary for statements.
When I went no contact, I did not respond to temp check text like "how are you?". Unless it was business related, like dealing with finances or rental property, I ignored everything else personal.
Did you watch any of the YouTube series that I recommended?
If you go with option 1 and she says no...?
Like other have said. Option 2, and dont pursue.
Hi Dbx80, oof! Well, the stove burned you a second time. A reminder to put pursuit on-hold for a bit?
Your response should have been “great text me when your free to get together”.
“I’m sorry I’m not interested in being friends with you.”
It’s not hopeless but it probably isn’t going change until she fears she may lose you.
Thanks LH. So just to be clear, it's OK to ask her when she's free to get together, if she initiates contact again? I ask because others on this forum seem to think that's pursuing, and that I shouldn't do that.
This is where it gets tricky.
You asked her out and she said maybe another time. That’s when your response should have been “great text me when you want to get together”. That puts the ball in her court. She never hears from you again unless she reaches out to you to get together. You’re not interested in being friends or small talk. You’re only interested if she wants to get together. When you ask her out and she declines you never ask her again. It has to be her idea.
This is where it gets tricky.
You asked her out and she said maybe another time. That’s when your response should have been “great text me when you want to get together”. That puts the ball in her court. She never hears from you again unless she reaches out to you to get together. You’re not interested in being friends or small talk. You’re only interested if she wants to get together. When you ask her out and she declines you never ask her again. It has to be her idea.
OK, so this was the text exchange:
Her: [long text about coronavirus and how I should stock up on groceries]
Me: Thanks. Did you want to get together for dinner tonight?
Her: I already ordered my dinner for pickup. Maybe another day.
Me: If you change your mind let me know.
Her: Ok.
So as you can see, I put the ball in her court for dinner THAT NIGHT. Obviously, that night has passed now, and it could be argued that the ball is not on anyone's court anymore. If she initiates contact with me again, should I say something to somehow put the ball in her court more permanently?
Me: If you change your mind let me know.
This is kinda desperate. Like you don't have anything better to do. Better to not respond IMO. When the answer isn't "YES" whatever else is said is just another way of saying "NO".
She declines, apologizes for sending me mixed signals, and says that she had a lapse in judgment. I foolishly try to reason with her about why having another dinner would be a good idea, and I impulsively call and text her (exactly the opposite of what I'm supposed to do). She, of course, maintains her cold and distant stance, and refuses to see me again.
I took that opportunity (since she reached out to me unprompted) to ask if she wanted to get dinner. She said "maybe another day." If you change your mind let me know.
Hi Dbx80, after a night of passion, it must be frustrating to find yourself rejected multiple times. She sounds lukewarm about you, and you sound head over heals about her. We all have to walk our own path, but this forum is here to help if a daily check-in would help you gal, find your center, and detach. Personal growth and giving someone who doesn't want you just now time to miss you can work wonders. Take care!
4) After going dark for 2 months, I contact her asking if she'd like to go to dinner with me. She accepts, we have an amazing time at dinner, we go back to my place, and we end up talking for 4 hours and we ultimately have sex. She tells me she's no longer talking to OM, that she misses me, and that she's very sorry for everything.
5) A couple of days later, I reach out to her to ask if she'd like to have dinner again. She declines, apologizes for sending me mixed signals, and says that she had a lapse in judgment. I foolishly try to reason with her about why having another dinner would be a good idea, and I impulsively call and text her (exactly the opposite of what I'm supposed to do). She, of course, maintains her cold and distant stance, and refuses to see me again.
I know I ruined it. I should not have pursued after the dinner. My question is: NOW WHAT? Is there any way to salvage this? I was so close.
No, you still haven't figured it out. You didn't ruin it b/c you pursued
after the dinner. You ruined it when you called the first time to ask her out to dinner. That is pursuit. Two months of darkness wasted. What made you think it was fine to call her for no reason and ask her out? Nothing has changed for her, or she would have been chasing you down, begging you to take her back.
I'm sorry to tell you that when #4 happens.........then the outcome of #5 is classic. But, if you don't learn your REAL mistake and WHEN you made it, then you probably repeat it and have the same outcome. You NEVER pursue a wife who has chosen another guy over you! You NEVER beg & plead with a WW!
What next? Well, you go dark and wait till hell freezes over before you initiate anymore contact with her.
No, you still haven't figured it out. You didn't ruin it b/c you pursued after the dinner. You ruined it when you called the first time to ask her out to dinner. That is pursuit. Two months of darkness wasted. What made you think it was fine to call her for no reason and ask her out? Nothing has changed for her, or she would have been chasing you down, begging you to take her back.
I'm sorry to tell you that when #4 happens.........then the outcome of #5 is classic. But, if you don't learn your REAL mistake and WHEN you made it, then you probably repeat it and have the same outcome. You NEVER pursue a wife who has chosen another guy over you! You NEVER beg & plead with a WW!
What next? Well, you go dark and wait till hell freezes over before you initiate anymore contact with her.
Thanks Sandi. OK, I understand your viewpoint. But what do I do if she does contact me again after going dark? Do I respond and engage? Ignore her? It would be good to know what to do beforehand, as these things can move very quickly.
D,
It all depends on what she says or wants from you.
D,
It all depends on what she says or wants from you.
Let’s say she asks to have dinner. What response?
Thanks Sandi. OK, I understand your viewpoint. But what do I do if she does contact me again after going dark?
If I were you, I'd be harder to get the third time around. Make her work for it, considering the extent the first dinner date, and then how quickly she said no a few day later, and went into all the excuses for her behavior after the dinner.
I wouldn't expect to hear from right away. Some day she may call for this or that excuse, but she's really checking out how friendly you are. I think she'll bring up how she enjoyed the first dinner with you b/c it had been a long time, yada, yada. She is checking your emotional temperature, and before coming right out and inviting you for dinner, she may suggest something very causal. But here are a couple of options.
If she
does call and suggests dinner.I would have plans for whatever day/night she suggested, play hard-to-get at least. If she starts getting pushy, then calmly tell her that you have made commitments for that night....and you won't change it. Don't give in to her nosy questions about where you're going, what you'll do.....and who (meaning lady) will be with you(Secretly, you can be committed to driving around the block, but don't tell her. It's none of her business. You need to a bit mysterious referring to your activities. Don't let her get you back so easily.......or give another opportunity for her to setup and letdown your emotions. And if she asks what night would work for you........tell her you will think about it. Don't offer another time/date, b/c it is her call. Don't call and give her a time/date for dinner. If she's interested, she'll call back again. But YOU must stop pursuing her.
A few more thoughts about what to expect her "contacts" to look like. I think the more common form that seem to come out of nowhere from the wishy-wash WW is something like......"Hope you have a good day"........"How are you"......"Thinking about you"........"Hi"......etc. If you've ever been fishing, you know a nibble from a full on hook-in-the mouth. Well, whenever a WW sends a text that is similar these, they are nothing but a nibble. She's not really offering anything you can grasp, and it plays on mind, wondering what it means. Does she want to get back together, does she want to talk, see you'll respond, etc? She wants to see you respond, but it's not b/c she cares or is even interested in anything more......but to see if you are still her backup plan.
I can almost hear you asking, "But if I don't respond, won't she think I'm not interested?" If you are
lucky, that's what she'll think. B/c things work backward in the WW head. By that, I mean the actions that seem logical to use with your W......don't work with Waywards. She's a different girl now. That's not to say she'll never change back, but if you really want her, then you need to strongly consider reading all the links that are listed at the bottom of page 1 on Sandi's Rules. Other posters were interacting throughout the threads, so don't get distracted. I did answer some of them directly, but for the most part, I tried to write as if I were addressing a group about the WW mindset.
Back to your question what to do if she contacts you. I suggest no response if she texts or emails these little nibbles. Considering she dumped you again, you should really ignore these insignificant nibbles. Don't play the nice-guy who is afraid he'll appear rude to his WW.
If she reacts negatively to no response, like saying, "Fine! Be a jerk!" If she has an angry reaction, due to you not pouncing on the first few peeps from her........mark it down, she is not ready for you to go any further. She is playing you. The WW has to think her H is truly not
interested in her. How does this work? Well, I talk a little about it in my previous post, and more about it the WW threads. You need to remember she is not the loving, sweet girl you fell in love with. At least, I hope she was a loving W back then. She's changed and she wants what she can't have. She took you for granted, took your help for granted, and she didn't give of herself which is normally required in a long term relationship. The love, in this MR, became one-sided. So, she becomes attracted to another guy, and away she goes. If that A fails, she may shop around for OM#2, b/c her wayward mindset has not changed. Until it changes, her disrespect & rebellion will be primary issues. Anger, b/c her jilted H doesn't jump when she snaps her fingers (text a little hello) is only one example demonstrating how illogical and out of balance she is. You really do have to be the man hard to get, unless you want to go through this past. She has to be the one who pursues you, and for a long time. Else, it's just games for her. Maybe I need to exchange "pursue" to "showing eagerness", b/c a lot of LBH's don't see what we mean as pursuit. Even if she should initiate a phone call, don't sound thrilled to death to hear from her and jump at the chance of having dinner again. She will see it as eagerness, and she'll pull back again.
The WW feels everything is about her. It's unbelievable how much false pride she has, and will exhibit often. And no matter how long it's been since you've gone dark or had the last contact, you must not jump on the nibbles. You must not worry you'll lose an opportunity for reconciliation. Trust me when I tell you that you cannot win her back by showing eagerness. She is a liar, cheater, and has betrayed your trust in the worst way. She won't respect you being eager to interact with her, considering how awful she's treated you.
As long as she feels she has you in the palm of her hand.........then you won't be her primary choice. You are too easy for her to get back, so she's not interested. That's how waywards work!
Do you want her in & out of your life, if she's not committed? If she's not serious, and doesn't know what she really wants, and repeatedly discards you like yesterdays newspaper? No, but you are probably thinking you could get her to slowly change her mind.....if she would come home. I strongly recommend you not live with her until she shows serious signs of remorse, seeking your forgiveness, is pleading for another chance, and you can see a humble heart in her........(which some WW's can fool the eager H with tears. He needs to wait for her ugly face cry!) As long as she has
any form of contact with OM, her feelings will be fickle.
Maybe you've read some about "letting her go". You have to let go of your fear of losing her and never getting her back again. WW's can sense fear in the LBH, so it works against him. I encourage you to work on your self confidence. The
one thing a WW respects is strength. That's it. She may not like you, and she may get mad.......but if she sees male confidence & your self-respect.......she's attracted to it, b/c that's how she is naturally wired as a woman.
If I were you, I'd be harder to get the third time around. Make her work for it, considering the extent the first dinner date, and then how quickly she said no a few day later, and went into all the excuses for her behavior after the dinner.
I wouldn't expect to hear from right away. Some day she may call for this or that excuse, but she's really checking out how friendly you are. I think she'll bring up how she enjoyed the first dinner with you b/c it had been a long time, yada, yada. She is checking your emotional temperature, and before coming right out and inviting you for dinner, she may suggest something very causal. But here are a couple of options.
If she does call and suggests dinner.I would have plans for whatever day/night she suggested, play hard-to-get at least. If she starts getting pushy, then calmly tell her that you have made commitments for that night....and you won't change it. Don't give in to her nosy questions about where you're going, what you'll do.....and who (meaning lady) will be with you(Secretly, you can be committed to driving around the block, but don't tell her. It's none of her business. You need to a bit mysterious referring to your activities. Don't let her get you back so easily.......or give another opportunity for her to setup and letdown your emotions. And if she asks what night would work for you........tell her you will think about it. Don't offer another time/date, b/c it is her call. Don't call and give her a time/date for dinner. If she's interested, she'll call back again. But YOU must stop pursuing her.
Thanks Sandi. So to be clear, here is your proposed plan of action (please correct me if I've misunderstood):
1. Go dark indefinitely.
2. If she contacts me about dinner, say either that I'm busy that night or that I'll think about it.
3. Don't call her back about dinner; wait for her to call me again about it.
4. If she calls or texts a second time about having dinner, then accept the invite.
5. After the dinner is over, go dark again?
Another question: If we end up going to dinner at some point, is it OK to become intimate later that night if she initiates? Can I initiate if things are going well?
Another question: If we end up going to dinner at some point, is it OK to become intimate later that night if she initiates? Can I initiate if things are going well?
NO, DO NOT INITIATE.
Why is this so hard for you to understand what it means to not pursue?
Another question: If we end up going to dinner at some point, is it OK to become intimate later that night if she initiates? Can I initiate if things are going well?
Sigh...........................
I am doing a poor job communicating. I apologize.
Okay, you were using the "
after the last resort technique" (which is basically dropping off the planet) for two months, b/c there was some other guy in the picture, and everything you previously tried failed to change your WW's mind. Is this right, or have I confused you with someone else?
So, did something change in the sitch to cause you to come out of darkness and initiate a call to your wayward W and invite her out? If not, then you set yourself up for failure. Why would you wine, dine, talk for four hours, and have sex......if there has been no changes? That's what I'm not understanding.
Pursuing a WW is showing her that you are
eager to spend time with her. Then after a wonderful night of having sex, you were
very eager to repeat that experience. And, being true to her wayward nature, she wasn't on the same page with you. Has that little fact slowed you down? Apparently not.
You were
eager to know what to do or say, if she contacted you to ask you to dinner. Not sure why you thought she
would, but never-the-less, I gave a couple of examples and tried to explain what may happen. However, you have missed the point.....or I failed to make it clear enough.
It now appears, to me, that all you were really wanting is a short script to follow, should she call. Then I find out you are wanting to know if you get to go out with her ...... will it be okay to be intimate with her again. Am I assuming it does not matter to you that NOTHING has changed for her???? Are you willing to put your health at risk, without requiring that she is tested for STD, since she has had sex with OM?
If you want a simple bullet point Plan of Action, then scratch my last two previous posts.
1. Don't initiate contact.
2. Don't respond if she initiates contact.
3. Move forward making a life without her in it.
Sigh...........................
I am doing a poor job communicating. I apologize.
Okay, you were using the "
after the last resort technique" (which is basically dropping off the planet) for two months, b/c there was some other guy in the picture, and everything you previously tried failed to change your WW's mind. Is this right, or have I confused you with someone else?
This is correct.
So, did something change in the sitch to cause you to come out of darkness and initiate a call to your wayward W and invite her out? If not, then you set yourself up for failure. Why would you wine, dine, talk for four hours, and have sex......if there has been no changes? That's what I'm not understanding.
The only thing that changed was that, unbeknownst to me at the time, the OM was now out of the picture.
Pursuing a WW is showing her that you are eager to spend time with her. Then after a wonderful night of having sex, you were very eager to repeat that experience. And, being true to her wayward nature, she wasn't on the same page with you. Has that little fact slowed you down? Apparently not.
You’re right. I’m not thinking clearly, and that’s why I’m here.
You were eager to know what to do or say, if she contacted you to ask you to dinner. Not sure why you thought she would, but never-the-less, I gave a couple of examples and tried to explain what may happen. However, you have missed the point.....or I failed to make it clear enough.
It now appears, to me, that all you were really wanting is a short script to follow, should she call. Then I find out you are wanting to know if you get to go out with her ...... will it be okay to be intimate with her again. Am I assuming it does not matter to you that NOTHING has changed for her???? Are you willing to put your health at risk, without requiring that she is tested for STD, since she has had sex with OM?
I don’t believe she had sex with OM. It was an EA. The OM lives 1000 miles away.
I know that nothing has changed for her as of right now. But my question about having dinner and being intimate with her was in the context of a future meeting where she would be pursuing me (i.e., she’d ask me to dinner, I’d decline; she’d ask me to dinner a second time, and then I would accept). Does the fact that she has to pursue me (in this hypothetical future scenario) change anything for her?
The only thing that changed was that, unbeknownst to me at the time, the OM was now out of the picture.
How did you find out he was out of the picture? Was it before you broke your "dark" status and asked her out the first time?
I don’t believe she had sex with OM. It was an EA. The OM lives 1000 miles away.
I hope you are right.
I know that nothing has changed for her as of right now. But my question about having dinner and being intimate with her was in the context of a future meeting where she would be pursuing me (i.e., she’d ask me to dinner, I’d decline; she’d ask me to dinner a second time, and then I would accept). Does the fact that she has to pursue me (in this hypothetical future scenario) change anything for her?
You are like a bulldog hanging on to that little piece!
Okay, here I go again, and may not do much better communicating the important things you need to consider. Somewhere in the WW threads, I explain more fully the mindset of the WW and how she will react to pursuit or eagerness from her LBH.
Here's the problem, and why I don't think you are fully hearing everything I'm say. Forget for a minute about how many times she should initiate contact, etc. I am sensing an
urgency in you, about the possible future interaction with your W that could come. Your feelings are not wrong, but I'm concerned they are causing you to want to hurry this along. I realize this has been going on for months, and you have needs. However, if you want your W back full time, then you've got to play it cool.
Do you know for certain there is absolutely no communication between her and OM? Was that a signal to you to contact her and ask her out? EA's are hard to get over and it's even harder for her to change how she feels about you. She doesn't have a romantic interest in
you, at the moment, even though she had sex with you that night.
Even if she was slowly getting over OM, your first date together went
way overboard. I think she saw you were eager to resume the relationship and afterwards, she realized she just wasn't there yet. She basically rejected you again. So, that is your clue to back all the way off. If she gets the notion to call or text, I would ignore it. That's going to send her the message that you aren't so eager to have your heart cut out again.
Now, I can go on & on with scenarios, telling you to wait so many times before you respond, but I think that's where I made the mistake in my first post to you on this subject. You are not looking at the over-all picture, and like a lot of H's, you don't fully understand why your WW is not ready to resume the MR......especially, after having that first incredible date.
Back to your question of does the fact she has to pursue you change anything for her. My answer is, yes it does. You should never pursue a woman who isn't interested in you, and rejects you right after having an intimate date. That goes triple, when the woman is your WW. Many WW's aren't interested in resuming a sexual relationship until she is completely over any affair withdrawals. B/c her "feelings" are not back to normal, so to speak. It's a process for her. Now, if she remains in her wayward mindset (which is very possible) she may have a mood where she wants to just see what you'll say/do if she sent a little text saying, "Hope you are having a good day"..........(just an example). Does that mean she wants to go out again? Who knows? But I can tell you that she isn't at the point of being romantically serious with you. She may get lonely and simply want a pal to talk to that evening. If you okay being just friends, then respond. Just remember, friends don't have sex together. Most H's don't want to settle for just friendship, but if that's fine by you......that's your choice.
I think being dark a couple of months, may have helped her miss you. Then after the date, her feelings were as fickle as ever.
It's up to you if you want to engage in the craziness, but she won't get serious until she thinks you are done with her. Yes, it matters that she has to pursue you. However, understand what I'm saying. She can play games pursuing you, just temperature checking your attachment & interest level. That's not the same as "working" to get you back as her H in an intimate MR.
That's the crazy thing about WW's. Their interest sparks when they believe the LBH's level of interest drops considerable. That's why you'll often read stories of the back & forth "dance" played out. He pulls back, she draws near. He steps forward, and she pulls back. It wasn't difficult for her to see your level of interest during that first dinner date. So now, she has not only pulled away, but put it in writing.
Well, here I go saying too much again. If I have not answered your questions, let me know.
I'm still here, but at this point, I'm kind of over it. I don't know what this means for me, or for my marriage/divorce.
So we share custody of our dogs; I have the dogs during the week, and she gets them during the weekends. Every Friday evening, she comes by to pick up the dogs. When she's here, we usually talk a bit, but nothing serious. Just pleasant chit-chat, and certainly nothing about the divorce or the relationship.
Two weekends ago, she texted me a picture of the dogs in her apartment. I just responded with one word, "Cuties." To be clear, the picture was of the two dogs, and she was not in the picture herself. So the "cuties" response was clearly aimed at how cute the dogs were, and not at her at all.
Last weekend, when she was here to pick up the dogs, she asked if I wanted to go on a walk with the dogs. I agreed, and we walked the dogs together (something we haven't done together in 8 months). During the walk, we both talked and had a good time. Everything seemed relaxed and normal-ish (as normal as could be expected, given the circumstances). I was generous with my conversation, and so was she.
When we got back to the house after our walk, she noticed that the bottle of water additive that I give to the dogs (for their oral health) was on the counter, and the bottle was leaking a bit. I told her I'm always having to clean it up, but it's no use because it just leaks again the next day. And so later that night, after she had gone with the dogs, she sent me a text saying something about how her bottle of water additive also leaks, and that I should keep the bottle in a plastic cup like she does, so that it won't get on the counter. I simply responded with "Ok thanks."
I don't know what any of this means, but like I said before, I'm kind of over it. I know that I probably should not have responded to the text of the picture of the dogs; and I probably should not have gone on the walk. But at this point, I just don't have the energy to deal with this anymore. I'm *so* emotionally drained after almost 9 months of this, that it almost doesn't even matter anymore. I'm kind of just.....*resigned* to whatever happens. I'm not pursuing her anymore in the sense that I'm not initiating *anything* with her. Yes, I respond when she initiates, but only then.
*Sigh*
Maybe it’s time to tell her that this isn’t working for you anymore and you can either w on the marriage or divorce?
@LH19
I thought that's not how it works... giving an ultimatum / choice like that.
Either you still have hope and patience, then focus on yourself and no contact until WW comes back with remorse and wanting to R. Or you are truly ready to move on, then you just tell WW that it's time to move on.
L,
It's not an ultimatum when something isn't working for you anymore. You communicate in a loving way that you would like to work on the marriage together but if not you are moving on with your life.
An ultimatum comes from a place of fear where choosing to end a marriage that isn't working from you comes from a place of love for yourself.
So we share custody of our dogs; I have the dogs during the week, and she gets them during the weekends. Every Friday evening, she comes by to pick up the dogs. When she's here, we usually talk a bit, but nothing serious. Just pleasant chit-chat, and certainly nothing about the divorce or the relationship.
Just curious.......did you share custody of the dogs during your time of going dark? If so, then you were never completely dark. See what I mean?
I don't know what any of this means, but like I said before, I'm kind of over it. I know that I probably should not have responded to the text of the picture of the dogs; and I probably should not have gone on the walk. But at this point, I just don't have the energy to deal with this anymore. I'm *so* emotionally drained after almost 9 months of this, that it almost doesn't even matter anymore. I'm kind of just.....*resigned* to whatever happens. I'm not pursuing her anymore in the sense that I'm not initiating *anything* with her. Yes, I respond when she initiates, but only then.
I can't speak for the LBH, but I can share what I've seen happen. IMHO, you never emotionally detached.....even when you went "dark". When you thought OM was out of the picture, you bounced into full on pursuit.........only to experience rejection after spending the night with your WW. Your emotions have suffered an extreme roller-coaster ride. Naturally, you feel exhausted, b/c there has been no true respite. Some LBH's never emotionally detach, they simply wear out from all the emotional fatigue. IMHO, LBH's try to make every tiny thing bear some type of meaningful message, and all it accomplishes is more fatigue. I think that's where you find yourself at the present.
I suggest you not respond to any photos she sends. It is a typical WW tactic to keep the LBH on the back burner. Don't respond to text that doesn't ask a direct question and absolutely needs an answer. If you simply MUST answer a question, don't use over two-three words. Think you can handle that? It's that or don't reply at all.
I don't know the situation about the dogs, or how many you have. I'm a dog lover, so I understand the attachment. With that said, I'll also tell you that your WW is only using the dogs as if it's a string tied to you. In other words, without the dogs, what other excuse does she have to contact you......and/or even better.......go to your place and play BFF?
You may have to make a hard decision about dividing the dogs between you & wife. Unless of course, you want to use them for the same reason.......a string tied to your W. Do what is best for you.
Anyway, I hope for your own sake you will decide to go completely off the planet dark with her. This time around, however, don't do it as a tactic to see how she'll respond. Do it for your mental & emotional health.
((hugs))
I have long wished that there was a male version of sandi2 who could bring so much experience and wisdom to us LBWs
Oh, what a compliment, HopeCA. Thank you!
Just curious.......did you share custody of the dogs during your time of going dark? If so, then you were never completely dark. See what I mean?
Yes, we shared custody of the dogs during my time of going dark. However, I made sure to never be at home when she would come to pick up the dogs. So I literally never saw her even once during the "dark" period. This is almost impossible now with this quarantine (everything's closed, there is nowhere to go, and there's a shelter-at-home order in our community).
I can't speak for the LBH, but I can share what I've seen happen. IMHO, you never emotionally detached.....even when you went "dark". When you thought OM was out of the picture, you bounced into full on pursuit.........only to experience rejection after spending the night with your WW. Your emotions have suffered an extreme roller-coaster ride. Naturally, you feel exhausted, b/c there has been no true respite. Some LBH's never emotionally detach, they simply wear out from all the emotional fatigue. IMHO, LBH's try to make every tiny thing bear some type of meaningful message, and all it accomplishes is more fatigue. I think that's where you find yourself at the present.
I believe you're right that this is where I find myself. I'm just worn out from the emotional rollercoaster.
I suggest you not respond to any photos she sends. It is a typical WW tactic to keep the LBH on the back burner. Don't respond to text that doesn't ask a direct question and absolutely needs an answer. If you simply MUST answer a question, don't use over two-three words. Think you can handle that? It's that or don't reply at all.
Please remind me: How will I know when she's reaching out to keep me on the back burner, as opposed to reaching out to try to reconcile? This is one reason most LBHs fail, I think. Because they don't know the difference.
I don't know the situation about the dogs, or how many you have. I'm a dog lover, so I understand the attachment. With that said, I'll also tell you that your WW is only using the dogs as if it's a string tied to you. In other words, without the dogs, what other excuse does she have to contact you......and/or even better.......go to your place and play BFF?
You may have to make a hard decision about dividing the dogs between you & wife. Unless of course, you want to use them for the same reason.......a string tied to your W. Do what is best for you.
The dogs are literally the only reason we still see each other. But she doesn't want to split the dogs up, and she doesn't want to keep them full-time, and she doesn't want me to have them full-time either. They are like our kids; how can you give up a kid? Or split your kids up?
Anyway, I hope for your own sake you will decide to go completely off the planet dark with her. This time around, however, don't do it as a tactic to see how she'll respond. Do it for your mental & emotional health.
Well actually, what I was trying to convey before was that since I'm so emotionally worn out, it's becoming harder and harder for me to *care* about going dark with her. The mindset I'm in right now is more like, "Going dark takes too much energy; I'd rather just live my life as I want, without factoring her into my actions. If I want to be home when she's here, so be it, I will be home because that's where I want to be. If I want to go on a walk with the dogs when she asks, I will. If I'm not in the mood to go on a walk, then I won't go.
Basically, I feel like "going dark" ironically elevates her importance, because I have to plan around *her* actions (e.g., be somewhere else when she shows up for the dogs). I don't want to plan around her. I don't want her to have any (implicit) control over what I can and cannot do. I don't want to live my life running away from her; that gives her too much power. Does that make sense?
Please remind me: How will I know when she's reaching out to keep me on the back burner, as opposed to reaching out to try to reconcile?
When the WW has selfish, manipulative, ulterior motives, she'll "reach out" to the LBH through various ways. At least, the LBH sees her as reaching out, but in reality, she's playing him for a fool. She has not changed, and doesn't intend to change her mindset. When the WW is keeping the LBH on the back burner, she will throw
just enough breadcrumbs to cause him to keep hanging on for a R. Whenever she sends a photo, or a text that really requires no response, or a "like" on his social media, or she suddenly asks him for a hug, or appears warm & friendly.....(but usually holds him at arms length romantically)........she's simply throwing crumbs to keep him emotionally attached. She may call him up to have long talks, which are usually all about
her feelings. She wants the LBH to be her "best friend".....or suggest they "hang out" (like friends). Another way is she'll tell him they need to meet and "talk", but it's never goes quite like he hopes or she changes her mind the next day. His biggest problem is thinking any of these times she seems to be "REACHING OUT" is going to eventually lead to reconciliation. He's scared to shut the door to any opportunity of that possibility......and therefore, he stays available to her. However, she's only reaching out due to selfish reasons and she will continue to call upon his availability as often as it keeps him on the back burner. (This little technique has been proven to continue even after they divorce and he is married to another woman!) Another thing to notice is that she is not very consistent in her words & actions, and it leaves the LBH feeling confused. As I said, she's giving him
just enough crumbs to keep him emotionally attached, but she is nowhere close to being authentic about changing from her waywardness.......or about reconciling. These things are a few examples of her playing the LBH.
When the WW really comes to her senses, and truly wants her H back, she will stop playing games with him.
She gets serious, and if she genuinely wants to reconcile, she'll usually be fairly direct and ask him his thoughts/feelings about getting back together. If she's remorseful and
feels humility in her soul, she'll genuinely apologize for all the horrible things she's done to him. She will be willing to do whatever is necessary to save the M. She'll want to convey her willingness to do what he needs in order to get his trust back. She'll want to convince him she's committed to saving the M. I keep using the word "genuinely" b/c if she has
not had an awakening and she's simply trying to sliver under the door to get back into the home, then she'll continue to play games.
This is one reason most LBHs fail, I think. Because they don't know the difference.
Maybe, but where I sit, it looks more like the LBHs fail b/c they are too resistant in believing what the board tells them and they persist in trying to come up with some logical answer as to why she's doing whatever she's doing. It doesn't work b/c he doesn't have her figured out. He would have better success if he acted like he couldn't stand to be in the same room with her, instead of thinking every little move from her is some type of "sign" she wants back. He needs to realize many WW's want back into their comfortable lifestyle, without making commitments to doing the work. What kills me is how many LBHs are willing to accept those terms!
The dogs are literally the only reason we still see each other. But she doesn't want to split the dogs up, and she doesn't want to keep them full-time, and she doesn't want me to have them full-time either. They are like our kids; how can you give up a kid? Or split your kids up?
Healthy minded people don't put their wayward spouse above the well being of their flesh & blood children. No matter how much you love your pets, I tend to think you would have no problem putting your WW above your dogs! If she told you she wanted to R but wanted to start over without the dogs.........I think you would be able to find another home for the pets.
Frankly, I think you are searching for excuses instead of issuing a measure of tough love. You think that seeing the dogs will grow into spending more time together and eventually leading to reconciliation. You are so scared if she doesn't have the excuse of seeing the dogs, you'll lose her forever. Remember what I told you about a WW getting serious and being direct with the LBH? I think a lot of LBHs fail by making things too easy for the WW to return to the M. Speaking as a former WW, let me assure you that she needs to work
hard to get her MR back again. You seem to find this excuse to see her, b/c you are thinking like dating years, where boys find excuses to get together with some girl. Trust me, when she gets serious about reconciling, she won't need an excuse to find you.
((hugs))
When she came by yesterday to pick up the dogs for the weekend, I was not home (as is usually the case, as I leave before she comes by to avoid having to see her). However, this time when I got home, I saw that she left me a couple of cupcakes, seemingly for no reason and without even mentioning it. Should I text her a "thank you" for the cupcakes? I don't talk to her or text with her unless it's about the dogs. But I also don't want to be a jerk. What's the correct response here? Thanks!
P.S.: I realize these cupcakes could LITERALLY be breadcrumbs. LOL!
Wow you’ve been gone for a year. Looks like nothing has changed. Thank you or silence really doesn’t matter at this point. How about a better update.
You're right LH, nothing has changed. Hence the lack of updates. She still reaches out once in a while wanting to get dinner together as friends, and I have to keep telling her that's not something I'm interested in.
Aside from that, we really don't have a relationship with each other at all. She just stops by on Fridays to get the dogs, and then comes by on Monday to drop them off. I'm not here when she comes by, so there is no face-to-face interaction at all.
One of the dogs was sick last month, requiring lots of vet visits and texting back and forth about the dog's health issues. Aside from texting about the dogs when necessary, we don't communicate. And I have no idea about what's going on with the OM or with any new OMs. I would be shocked if she's not seeing someone.
I know you constantly say that it could take several years for anything to change with a wayward, if at all. I'm not holding my breath, but I thought the cupcake thing was a little out of the ordinary.
The best advice I ever got for dealing with communication was only to answer questions.
Unless there’s a question which requires you to communicate with her - do not.
And do not initiate communication.
The way a WW’s brain works (or the remnants of where there used to be a brain) is like this ... “he’s being nice for a couple of cupcakes even though I’m banging another guy. He’s still on the hook. I can have him back anytime I want. He’s a weak man. He’s unattractive. I can do better. I’ll keep looking elsewhere.”
Unless it’s a direct question or something which REQUIRES your response, ignore. Eat the cupcakes and then forget about it - get on with YOUR life. Gym, exercise, socialise, work, renovate, paint a room, read a book, take a class, holiday/small getaway.
You have about 80 laps around the sun and then it’s all over. Is how you respond to cupcakes really going to make or break it?
but I thought the cupcake thing was a little out of the ordinary.
Quite the contrary, it's totally ordinary, she's just keeping you on the backburner, as they like to do. You reply anything to the cupcakes and she knows you'll come back tail between your legs ready to do anything for her. We know you will too.
DBX80 I don't remember the particulars of your sitch, I would need to go back and reread. But yeah the cupcakes are just that, cupcakes. Nothing more, nothing less. I wouldn't make a special attempt to contact her to thank her. Next time you need to text about the dogs just throw in a "Oh, and thanks for the cupcakes."
If she is still trying to be friends, then it was likely a friend giving another friend cupcakes. And as the other said, probably a temp check thrown in to boot.
I think of one thing here. Yeah I can see your concern about not "trying" hard enough. But if you really did try for awhile like your previous post said then honestly its best to suddenly stop and stay stopped until the other person makes it very clear they are interested in recon. Drifting and flickering out is not the statement you need to make. That is allowing someone to slowly get over you. Yes the last time you had dinner a great idea would have been to not contact anymore until she asks for your time. Any other contact besides going on a date is the friend zone.
Well done, I know its hard not to want to say thank you for the cupcakes (thats your NGS messing with you) But by not responding you are telling her "Damn, maybe he is over me, maybe he doesnt care, maybe I pushed him too far this time" You want that mystery in her mind. Like a coach says online "women are scientifically attracted more to men who's feelings are unclear.
I can absolutely garuntee she will expect a reaction. Don't give her that pleasure, its 100% a temp check.
DBX80,
When she came by yesterday to pick up the dogs for the weekend, I was not home (as is usually the case, as I leave before she comes by to avoid having to see her). However, this time when I got home, I saw that she left me a couple of cupcakes, seemingly for no reason and without even mentioning it. Should I text her a "thank you" for the cupcakes? I don't talk to her or text with her unless it's about the dogs. But I also don't want to be a jerk. What's the correct response here? Thanks!
P.S.: I realize these cupcakes could LITERALLY be breadcrumbs. LOL!
This seems like an odd out-of-the-blue update after an 11 month hiatus. More like something I'd expect after a few days/weeks, not nearly a year.
I read through your sitch from the beginning. You were married (or at least together) 13 years and if I'm doing my math right it's been over a year and a half (20 months) since bomb day?
What's the latest with your sitch (besides the dog and cupcakes)? I assume she's not living with you, but last we knew she was in a hotel? Did she rent an apartment, buy a house? Are you still married? Has either of you filed for divorce? Have you dated anyone else? What are you doing to improve yourself? What are you doing for GAL?
To answer your question I wouldn't respond at all about the cupcakes, not even a "thank you".
Also...many are love their pets like a child but I wouldn't continue sharing custody of the dogs. In fact, in my sitch my W bought a dog two months before we met so it was part of my life for almost all of its 9 years of life (until she moved out) but let her take it. Granted, I'm not historically a "pet person" but I cared for, played with, and genuinely loved the dog for almost a decade and still greet and pet the dog when I drop off the kids (more attention than I give W!), but wasn't going to truck back and forth with it every week for years. I let it go...as I did with W.
she left me a couple of cupcakes, seemingly for no reason and without even mentioning it. Should I text her a "thank you" for the cupcakes? But I also don't want to be a jerk. What's the correct response here?
I've left baked good for my ex-wife--e.g. when my girlfriend got more than she could eat for her birthday. I get you don't want to be a jerk. I think etiquette only demands a thank you if you're grateful for her action. So if you were happy to see these baked goods and want to encourage this behavior--say thank you. If you were not happy to see these baked goods and don't want to encourage this behavior--don't say thank you. I highly doubt your choice will have any appreciable effect on your marital situation.
Well done, I know its hard not to want to say thank you for the cupcakes (thats your NGS messing with you)
Nice Guy syndrome are used to describe men.. whose "nice deeds" are in reality only motivated by attempts to passively please women into a relationship
If his urge to say "Thanks" is a lame attempt to manipulate his ex, that's Nice Guy Syndrome. If his urge to say "Thanks" is because he appreciates the cupcake, that is called Kindness and Gratitude.
I highly doubt your choice will have any appreciable effect on your marital situation.
Bingo.
Wow! A couple of cupcakes! Is that all it took to get you to come back here? Did you even read that last post I wrote to you, before you decided to drop off the board and not even reply back? I really poured myself into answering your question of how to know if your WW was reaching out to reconcile or if she was keeping you on the back burner. If you had read my last post, then you'd know the cupcake is nothing but a breadcrumb to keep you exactly where you are today. Look at well it worked.
If you had read my last post, then you'd know the cupcake is nothing but a breadcrumb to keep you exactly where you are today.
Ummmmm.....where am I today?
You were married (or at least together) 13 years and if I'm doing my math right it's been over a year and a half (20 months) since bomb day?
What's the latest with your sitch (besides the dog and cupcakes)? I assume she's not living with you, but last we knew she was in a hotel? Did she rent an apartment, buy a house? Are you still married? Has either of you filed for divorce? Have you dated anyone else? What are you doing to improve yourself? What are you doing for GAL?
Yes, together for 13 years, and the bomb dropped over a year and a half ago. She moved into a rented apartment last year, and yes, we’re still legally married. Neither of us have yet filed for divorce. I have gone on a few dates here and there, but nothing serious. The best way I can describe it, is that I’m now living my life as if she had passed away. I know that’s a bit morbid, but it’s how I can best wrap my head around what happened. The person I fell in love with no longer exists. I think I was going through the various stages of grief for a long time, and now I’ve finally come to a kind of acceptance. She’s gone, and there’s literally nothing that can be done about it. So I’ve stopped giving it any of my energy anymore.
The cupcake thing was strange to me, but I wasn’t thinking “oh now she’s coming back!” Lol. My only question was about whether to say thank you or not, because I didn’t want to be a jerk about it. I believe you should be able to DB without being a jerk.
You were married (or at least together) 13 years and if I'm doing my math right it's been over a year and a half (20 months) since bomb day?
What's the latest with your sitch (besides the dog and cupcakes)? I assume she's not living with you, but last we knew she was in a hotel? Did she rent an apartment, buy a house? Are you still married? Has either of you filed for divorce? Have you dated anyone else? What are you doing to improve yourself? What are you doing for GAL?
Yes, together for 13 years, and the bomb dropped over a year and a half ago. She moved into a rented apartment last year, and yes, we’re still legally married. Neither of us have yet filed for divorce. I have gone on a few dates here and there, but nothing serious. The best way I can describe it, is that I’m now living my life as if she had passed away. I know that’s a bit morbid, but it’s how I can best wrap my head around what happened. The person I fell in love with no longer exists. I think I was going through the various stages of grief for a long time, and now I’ve finally come to a kind of acceptance. She’s gone, and there’s literally nothing that can be done about it. So I’ve stopped giving it any of my energy anymore.
The cupcake thing was strange to me, but I wasn’t thinking “oh now she’s coming back!” Lol. My only question was about whether to say thank you or not, because I didn’t want to be a jerk about it. I believe you should be able to DB without being a jerk.
So she drops the D bomb on you, moves out. Yet you are a jerk for not thanking her for some cupcakes?
The LBS w/NGS mind is a difficult one to understand at times. And that was with me being there at one point!
The cupcake thing was strange to me, but I wasn’t thinking “oh now she’s coming back!” Lol. My only question was about whether to say thank you or not, because I didn’t want to be a jerk about it. I believe you should be able to DB without being a jerk.
Okay, Mr. Nice Guy, my answer is no. Don't respond. It doesn't make you a jerk.
Can't you see how she is fishing? The cupcakes are a hook. If you bite, she'll pull you back into the game playing.
Just ignore it.
Just my two cents on the cupcakes. Thank you is fine if it was immediate. Oh cup cakes, text thank you. The end. Having to get an opinion on what should be knee jerk politeness is why everyone is throwing NGS at you. If you were truly grateful and didn't want to be a jerk you wouldn't have come here asking for advice on gratitude over baked goods from an ex. That being said, you did come here, you didn't say thank you right away like a weirdo, because one can only assume you were looking for some pay off for that gratitude, so now you're just going to make things super awkward if you bring it up now. Don't do it. Next you can DB without being a jerk. You could've said thank you in a normal human person time frame. Also not saying anything at all is also not being jerk. Filming yourself throwing them in the trash and then taking the trash out and sending said video to her, that's being a jerk. Best case scenario here is what's been suggested multiple times. Thank her the next time you have a reason to interact with her, and leave it alone.
The deeper issue is why are you reading into cupcakes 20 months after BD? Don't mind read. Don't read into every day scenarios. Focus on what you're doing to heal and move forward.
Wayfarer really nailed it.
I'll add to Wayfarer in that I know how you feel. I too have panicked and posted a gazillion stupid things that, in retrospect, sound so silly. It comes back to detachment and being able to think clearly. Just reread that detachment thread quite a bit.
I told myself every day for almost 2 years that today could be the last day I am married.
OK, I really appreciate all of the advice. However, I think this really highlights the problem with this forum. I asked what I thought would be a really simple question: Should I say thank you or not? And here is a sampling of the answers I received (paraphrased, of course):
LH19: Nothing you do matters! [I would call this the nihilist approach, lol]
SteveLW: Say thank you, but only when discussing the dogs! [let's call this the practical nice-guy approach]
CWarrior: Say thank you, but only if you want more cupcakes in the future! [the utilitarian approach]
sandi2: Don't you DARE respond to this nonsense! [the tough love approach]
wayfarer: How dare you NOT respond immediately with a thank you for the breadcrumbs she's throwing your way??? You're a weirdo!!! [the NGS approach]
ovrrnbw: This is a stupid, silly question. [lol]
As you can see, the advice is all over the place. I think the veterans on this forum need to get together and have a meeting about what it means to be DB'ing, because a simple question like this should not really illicit such divergent responses if you are all reading from the same book. I think there was a post earlier about why not many people are posting on this forum anymore, and I think this thread may provide some insight.
Now don't get me wrong, this forum has gotten me through many a dark night, just reading through other people's situations, knowing that I'm not the only one experiencing this craziness. And for that, I'm truly grateful. But honestly, I was kind of surprised by all the answers to this very simple question.
As you can see, the advice is all over the place. I think the veterans on this forum need to get together and have a meeting about what it means to be DB'ing, because a simple question like this should not really illicit such divergent responses if you are all reading from the same book. I think there was a post earlier about why not many people are posting on this forum anymore, and I think this thread may provide some insight.
That's the beauty of the board my man, you get different opinions. Some people like Sandi and I are more about tough love while people like CW and DNJ are more understanding and compassionate. My point was say "thank you" or don't say "thank you" is not going to change the outcome of something that thousands of small contributors got you into. You have to decide on your own what kind of man you want to be going forward but it sounds like you have been kind of stagnate the last year.
Everything is a matter of judgment.
I'm with LH.
Every poster is different and every WAS is different, even though they are many similarities.
OK, I really appreciate all of the advice. However, I think this really highlights the problem with this forum. I asked what I thought would be a really simple question: Should I say thank you or not? And here is a sampling of the answers I received (paraphrased, of course):
LH19: Nothing you do matters! [I would call this the nihilist approach, lol]
SteveLW: Say thank you, but only when discussing the dogs! [let's call this the practical nice-guy approach]
CWarrior: Say thank you, but only if you want more cupcakes in the future! [the utilitarian approach]
sandi2: Don't you DARE respond to this nonsense! [the tough love approach]
wayfarer: How dare you NOT respond immediately with a thank you for the breadcrumbs she's throwing your way??? You're a weirdo!!! [the NGS approach]
ovrrnbw: This is a stupid, silly question. [lol]
As you can see, the advice is all over the place. I think the veterans on this forum need to get together and have a meeting about what it means to be DB'ing, because a simple question like this should not really illicit such divergent responses if you are all reading from the same book. I think there was a post earlier about why not many people are posting on this forum anymore, and I think this thread may provide some insight.
Now don't get me wrong, this forum has gotten me through many a dark night, just reading through other people's situations, knowing that I'm not the only one experiencing this craziness. And for that, I'm truly grateful. But honestly, I was kind of surprised by all the answers to this very simple question.
Hmmm. I think maybe you are over thinking this. And also you may be gagging at gnats. You haven't been here for a year, and then you come with a simplistic question and expect us all to understand the idiosyncrasies of what has been going on, and be able to give you an uniform answer to whether or not to thank your WAS who has dragged you through a separation and dealing with dog exchanges over some cupcakes.
And for the record, put me into the "DO NOT THANK HER!" category. I took you struggling to not be jerk and gave you the answer based on your struggle. Kind of a begrudging "if you have to thank her, do it in context of the other logistical discussions you need to have with her". But my preference is to align with sandi, drop the NGS and move on with your life instead of dwelling on some flour, sugar, eggs and milk rolled into cupcakes. Heck, I even have the thought that maybe you shouldn't eat the things. Maybe that is her way of getting the dogs all to herself is to give you some poisoned cupcakes! (Some of the WWs we've had here I wouldn't put it past them.)
Will it ruin any chance at R for you to thank her? No. Will it ruin any chance at R for you to ignore them? No. That is LH's point.
However, enumerating all of our responses and acting like we are giving you conflicting information on a life or death decision is ludicrous! Heck, you could hire 6 DB coaches and get 6 different answers! DBing is an art, not a science. If you approach it like a science you will be disappointed. There is no DO X and GET Y result. I wish there were. Heck if there were then MWD wouldn't have had to write her books, or have this forum. There would be one "STOP A DIVORCE" book written 50 years ago that would give you that answer. But it doesn't exist.
DBX, I do wonder though if you aren't punking us. You show up, get confrontational, about the same time dunnm posts a thread essentially suggesting that the forum is bunk. No one is forcing anyone to post here. And when you do you get people that get nothing more out of trying to help than the fact that they've been through it too, and know how crappy it is. But I would suggest that a year later.......your situation is NO different than last year.....maybe you should be trying something different. That's DBing.
Peace.
DBX, I do wonder though if you aren't punking us. You show up, get confrontational, about the same time dunnm posts a thread essentially suggesting that the forum is bunk. No one is forcing anyone to post here. And when you do you get people that get nothing more out of trying to help than the fact that they've been through it too, and know how crappy it is. But I would suggest that a year later.......your situation is NO different than last year.....maybe you should be trying something different. That's DBing.
Peace.
I agree. This is a weird thread. I mean it was fine enough as of last year, but coming in after a delay of a year, with no update and no change
at all in the sitch (at least that was told to the board), and asking this question that in the scheme of any relationship is the most minor of things...and then getting annoyed at the answers. Anyway DBing is not some secret trick to fool the other person into coming back, it's all about improving yourself so that you can survive an awful situation and be a better person on the other side.
To me, the bigger question I have is why are you still in the same exact sitch a year later? At some point being married to someone that you never see or talk to is far worse than just moving on with your life. Are you dating? Following any of the other DB principles like GAL? Seeing an IC? If what you're doing isn't changing the sitch then you need to do something else, or you need to think about maybe just being done with it. Unless you want an estranged W forever, because it seems she is fine with the arrangement.
However, enumerating all of our responses and acting like we are giving you conflicting information on a life or death decision is ludicrous!
No one said it was life or death. All I said was that it was a simple question. Honestly, I agree with LH that it won't matter what I do. It's been a year and half, and nothing has changed. I think if something does change sometime in the future, it won't be because of anything that I do.
DBX, I do wonder though if you aren't punking us. You show up, get confrontational, about the same time dunnm posts a thread essentially suggesting that the forum is bunk. No one is forcing anyone to post here. And when you do you get people that get nothing more out of trying to help than the fact that they've been through it too, and know how crappy it is. But I would suggest that a year later.......your situation is NO different than last year.....maybe you should be trying something different. That's DBing.
I am not punking you guys. I'm just telling you how it is from a newbie's side.
And you're correct, my situation is really no different than last year. But I have already cut her out of my life as much as is practical. I don't know what else you'd have me do when you suggest trying something different.
However, enumerating all of our responses and acting like we are giving you conflicting information on a life or death decision is ludicrous!
No one said it was life or death. All I said was that it was a simple question. Honestly, I agree with LH that it won't matter what I do. It's been a year and half, and nothing has changed. I think if something does change sometime in the future, it won't be because of anything that I do.
DBX, I do wonder though if you aren't punking us. You show up, get confrontational, about the same time dunnm posts a thread essentially suggesting that the forum is bunk. No one is forcing anyone to post here. And when you do you get people that get nothing more out of trying to help than the fact that they've been through it too, and know how crappy it is. But I would suggest that a year later.......your situation is NO different than last year.....maybe you should be trying something different. That's DBing.
I am not punking you guys. I'm just telling you how it is from a newbie's side.
And you're correct, my situation is really no different than last year. But I have already cut her out of my life as much as is practical. I don't know what else you'd have me do when you suggest trying something different.
How about going and filing for D? You are stuck in limbo for a year and a half! Even in the beginning of my sitch I knew that there was no way I would be able to deal with limbo for that long and put a one year limit. If she wasn't recommitted back to the MR by the 1 year anniversary of BD I was going to go file for D.
I get giving her time and space. But I also truly believe that it shouldn't be infinite.
However, I think this really highlights the problem with this forum. I asked what I thought would be a really simple question: Should I say thank you or not? And here is a sampling of the answers I received (paraphrased, of course):
LH19: Nothing you do matters! [I would call this the nihilist approach, lol]
CWarrior: Say thank you, but only if you want more cupcakes in the future! [the utilitarian approach]
DBX80, in my message I said in-line with LH, "I highly doubt your choice will have any appreciable effect on your marital situation." On saving marriages and ourselves, I believed there's more consensus. On etiquette and who we want to be as people, I believe there's more divergence--e.g., kindness vs authenticity, traditional vs modern roles, or COVID. That's to be expected in a forum that crosses countries and politics, no?
I don't know what else you'd have me do when you suggest trying something different.
A year is a long time. I hope when you say your situation is no different, you only mean with respect to your relationship, and you've used the time to grow. Tell us about the New vs Old DBX80? Has she changed?
A year is a long time. I hope when you say your situation is no different, you only mean with respect to your relationship, and you've used the time to grow. Tell us about the New vs Old DBX80? Has she changed?
Yes, I mean nothing has changed with respect to the relationship. As far as what has changed with me personally, like I said before, I’ve been dipping my toes in the dating pool, but nothing serious for now. And I’ve really gotten into fitness and health, working out 5 times a week and eating healthier. I’ve also been traveling a bit more now that things are starting to get back to normal with COVID, and I’ve made some new friends out of my new hobby (hiking). So I feel like I’ve definitely made progress from a purely personal standpoint.
As far as whether she has changed? I’m not sure how to answer that. I don’t really talk to her anymore (aside from texting about the dogs). She’s like a complete stranger to me, so I don’t really know what’s going on in her life.
I get giving her time and space. But I also truly believe that it shouldn't be infinite.
For sure it should not be infinite. But lots of people on this forum constantly say that it could take “years” for a wayward to change (I believe LH says that a lot, for example). So when you tell me that maybe I should consider filing for divorce after a year and a half, it confuses me. Are you saying that if she was going to change her waywardness, it would have happened by now?
It’s not like I’m waiting by the window for her. Lol. I’m living my life, and have even gone on dates with others. So the way I look at it, the divorce would just be a piece of paper, and would not really change the current dynamic between us (which is basically that we’re both single adults, doing what we want to do, even though we’re legally still married). Am I wrong about this?
I’m curious what you think would be accomplished by filing for divorce? What would change?
I would personally prefer to not be married if I was dating. On the other side of it, I’d prefer that a person I was dating was not married also. Especially if it was indefinite with no clear end point. I suppose this might not matter to some people but those just don’t feel right to me. That’s what the D accomplishes.
A spouse also gains certain rights. For example, I hope you have a will, have designated someone else as beneficiary on accounts, stuff like that.
When people say the process can take years, I think a lot of times the expectation is you go through the D and perhaps find them again afterward. Not 100% sure on this though.
I get giving her time and space. But I also truly believe that it shouldn't be infinite.
For sure it should not be infinite. But lots of people on this forum constantly say that it could take “years” for a wayward to change (I believe LH says that a lot, for example). So when you tell me that maybe I should consider filing for divorce after a year and a half, it confuses me. Are you saying that if she was going to change her waywardness, it would have happened by now?
It’s not like I’m waiting by the window for her. Lol. I’m living my life, and have even gone on dates with others. So the way I look at it, the divorce would just be a piece of paper, and would not really change the current dynamic between us (which is basically that we’re both single adults, doing what we want to do, even though we’re legally still married). Am I wrong about this?
I’m curious what you think would be accomplished by filing for divorce? What would change?
It would let you move on. The dogs are going to pass away one day (I've lost several dogs over the years), and then your only connection to her would be a "piece of paper". I get the feeling you're waiting for her waywardness to end. LH does say it could take years. What he and many of us also say is that it could take years.... If ever! As in she may never get over her waywardness. So let me turn it around on you, if you you agree the waiting shouldn't be infinite then how long should it be? A year seems too short for you. Maybe 2? 5? 10?
And if you are dating that has to be awkward. "So your still married? How long have you been separated?" "Umm, 5 years."
Not sure about you but if a woman I met and took out told me she and her estranged husband were separated but still married and it had been over a year, I'm running the other way fast.
When people say the process can take years, I think a lot of times the expectation is you go through the D and perhaps find them again afterward. Not 100% sure on this though.
Yep. That's right. Being D'd will not prevent future R if it is ever going to happen. Yet so many LBSs are deathly afraid of D.
Being D'd will not prevent future R if it is ever going to happen. Yet so many LBSs are deathly afraid of D.
It’s not that I’m afraid of divorce (anymore). It’s just that in my mind, I always pictured HER filing for divorce, since she’s the one that stepped out of the marriage. I feel like if I file for divorce, it will mean I’m the one that gave up on us. Which is obviously the furthest thing from the truth.
It seems strange to me to say, on one hand, that marriage is just a piece of paper and dating is fine, but on the other hand to say filing means you gave up on the M.
I used to think the same and didn’t want to file, that i was giving up. Then I decided that was silly, it was more important to move on, and getting the D was a necessary step. I didn’t give up on the M, but you have to be realistic too. And nobody wants to date someone, seriously at least, who’s been separated for years with no D plans.
DBX80, I’m trying to resolve two things and understand where you’re at—you say you have not given up on the marriage, but you also say you’ve been dating?! How did you explain this to your dates?
I get you believe you’ve made self-improvements and went dark EXCEPT for the dogs for a year “DB’ing x 80!” and you wanted another shot—like that time she came over and you two had great sex? It must seem unfair that in a year, dropping off cupcakes is the most personal interaction you’ve gotten.
Unfortunately love isn’t about fair. You don’t earn points from successful DBing that you can cash in for rewards. There’s always the free will of another person and that’s never perfectly predictable. What it can do is help you live a happy life, and be better in your next relationship.
DBX80, one more question. I asked how you'd upgraded yourself in the past year. You mentioned working out 5x/week and finding new friends and hobbies. A year of that and you're probably as fit as you've ever been! It's wonderful but in a way low-hanging fruit. Most people lose weight when they become single.
What deeper work have you done? Detachment is one part of DB. Being your best self is another. Your ex-wife's complaint was that you were "controlling and selfish" and you agreed. Have you transformed in these areas? How would an outsider see this in your work, hobbies, and daily interactions?
I'm glad to hear from you, even if it's not all wonderful news.
DBX80, I’m trying to resolve two things and understand where you’re at—you say you have not given up on the marriage, but you also say you’ve been dating?! How did you explain this to your dates?
I just tell them that I'm going through a divorce, and that we live completely separate lives (which is true). It hasn't been an issue so far (that I'm aware of).
And I guess there's a bit of compartmentalizing that goes on when I say that I haven't given up on my marriage. In a sense, I have given up if I'm dating other people. But on the other hand, I have not committed myself to anyone. So take that as you will. Life is messy, lol.
I get you believe you’ve made self-improvements and went dark EXCEPT for the dogs for a year “DB’ing x 80!” and you wanted another shot—like that time she came over and you two had great sex? It must seem unfair that in a year, dropping off cupcakes is the most personal interaction you’ve gotten.
Yes, it's kind of sad in a sense. But on the other hand, it confirms that she's not the person I fell in love with anymore, which definitely helps with detachment.
What deeper work have you done? Detachment is one part of DB. Being your best self is another. Your ex-wife's complaint was that you were "controlling and selfish" and you agreed. Have you transformed in these areas? How would an outsider see this in your work, hobbies, and daily interactions?
I do go to IC. I feel like I have a more laid-back attitude towards life now. I used to be much more high-strung and "intense," which wasn't serving me well in my relationships with others (not just with W, but with friends and family and work colleagues). I let things roll off my back much more now, which has actually helped quite a bit with gaining a sense of acceptance about what has happened to my marriage.
CWarrior, I honestly tried my best to save that marriage, because I honestly really loved her. I don't know if I really believe in "soulmates" and all of that stuff, but if they are a thing, I always thought she would clearly be my soulmate. It's sad to think about what has happened to us, but at least now I can wrap my head around it. People change, and sometimes that means that they move on from something you thought to be solid and everlasting. It is what it is, and there's literally nothing I can do about it. You cannot force someone to love you; not even your soulmate!
So if you believe in the term soulmates (which I don’t) what you both are doing are the opposite of the term. Right now you both are seeing if there is something better out there holding the door open in case there isn’t.
A year and a half is a long time to wait for a woman who is basically telling you that you are not good enough when you don’t have children. Not saying you’re wrong I’m just making an observation.
I do go to IC. I feel like I have a more laid-back attitude towards life now. I used to be much more high-strung and "intense," which wasn't serving me well in my relationships with others (not just with W, but with friends and family and work colleagues). I let things roll off my back much more now, which has actually helped quite a bit with gaining a sense of acceptance about what has happened to my marriage.
I’ve gotten to the same place DBX, life is much more peaceful.
CWarrior, I honestly tried my best to save that marriage, because I honestly really loved her. I don't know if I really believe in "soulmates" and all of that stuff, but if they are a thing, I always thought she would clearly be my soulmate. It's sad to think about what has happened to us, but at least now I can wrap my head around it. People change, and sometimes that means that they move on from something you thought to be solid and everlasting. It is what it is, and there's literally nothing I can do about it. You cannot force someone to love you; not even your soulmate!
I don’t believe the whole soulmates thing, but I could have written this besides that part. It is what it is and it’s out of your control, with this attitude you’ll be more than fine soon enough.
Add me to the do not believe in soulmates stuff. Not even sure what that means?
But no you cannot force anyone to love you. Even a "soulmate" because there is always a little thing called free-will. People that were madly deeply hopelessly in love one minute, fell out of love the next minute. As you say, life is messy! People want their cake and eat it to. Look at you, not wanting to give up on your marriage, but dating other people. That is wanting your cake and eat it to. Just like your WW is doing!
Also, it has been said on this forum before, oftent times the LBS is the one that ends up filing for D. WASs and WSs in particular are notorious for being lazy when it comes to D. Sometimes it is to flip the narrative "He D'd me!" and they leave out that they BD'd you and left you.
But none of that matters. What matters is how long you are willing to put your life on hold and wait for the WAS. As I said, it is up to each person individually but I was only willing to wait 1 year for her to make up her mind. Life is too short, and I was staring 50 in the face. So she was either going to recommit to the marriage, or I was going to pull the ripcord myself and move on with my life. I don't think anyone could accuse you of giving up on your marriage after a year and a half of giving her ample opportunity to come back. What you would be giving up on is being held hostage in limbo and waiting for a WAS to change their mind. But you gave the MR every opportunity after a year and a half.
THe good news is that you don't have to decide anything now. TIme is on your side now. If you wait 5 more minutes, 4 more weeks or six more months, at this point it is just more of the same. So you do not have to be in any hurry, but I would have a honest discussion with myself if I were you about how much longer you are willing to wait.
“Pulling the ripcord” is a great analogy.
The only regret I have with my divorce ... is begging/pleading/waiting/“standing” and not pulling it sooner.
I just tell them that I'm going through a divorce, and that we live completely separate lives (which is true). It hasn't been an issue so far (that I'm aware of).
And I guess there's a bit of compartmentalizing that goes on when I say that I haven't given up on my marriage. In a sense, I have given up if I'm dating other people. But on the other hand, I have not committed myself to anyone. So take that as you will. Life is messy, lol.
STOP! In the name of love, before you break my heart!!! OK OK I'm messing around.
But seriously, here's what I'm thinking: How can one date when married? What does that say about your view of marriage? Is it an ultimate commitment or is it easy come easy go?
And how can you commit yourself at this point? You're a married guy who is holding out hope in his estranged wife. I don't judge that to be bad either, just a matter of fact.
If someone takes an issue with it, they probably don't see a purpose in discussing it with you. As you can tell, I have a great disdain for how our Western society utters the word "separated" and they may have just said "hocus pocus". Like magic, you're good to step outside of the bounds of the marriage that you voluntarily agreed to. I think this is very bad. Get a divorce (when you are ready), heal, and date again.
But seriously, here's what I'm thinking: How can one date when married? What does that say about your view of marriage? Is it an ultimate commitment or is it easy come easy go?
And how can you commit yourself at this point? You're a married guy who is holding out hope in his estranged wife. I don't judge that to be bad either, just a matter of fact.
If someone takes an issue with it, they probably don't see a purpose in discussing it with you. As you can tell, I have a great disdain for how our Western society utters the word "separated" and they may have just said "hocus pocus". Like magic, you're good to step outside of the bounds of the marriage that you voluntarily agreed to. I think this is very bad. Get a divorce (when you are ready), heal, and date again.
I think it takes two people to be married. And right now, it’s just me and the dogs here at home. So...
I think it takes two people to be married. And right now, it’s just me and the dogs here at home. So...
Yep, exactly. So at this point you don't have a marriage, you have an active marriage license.
So based on that let me ask you, are there any benefits that your WAS still receives by being legally married to you? Health insurance? Are you paying for anything for her? (Cell phone, car insurance tend to be the big 2.) If so that should tell you all you need to know as to why she isn't moving forward with a D.
So based on that let me ask you, are there any benefits that your WAS still receives by being legally married to you? Health insurance? Are you paying for anything for her? (Cell phone, car insurance tend to be the big 2.) If so that should tell you all you need to know as to why she isn't moving forward with a D.
No, she has her own health insurance, and I'm not paying anything for her. I suspect the only reason she hasn't filed for divorce yet is because doing so will require us to split the dogs, which neither of us really wants to do. Not only would we be separating two dogs that are bonded to each other, but we'd both be losing all contact with one of the dogs, too. Of course, it will have to happen eventually, but I think it's something we're both struggling with, because the thought of never seeing one of the dogs again is heartbreaking.
So why can't the coparenting of both dogs continue post D?
So why can't the coparenting of both dogs continue post D?
You'd have her come to my house for the dogs twice a week, for the next 10 years (or however long the dogs live)?
So why can't the coparenting of both dogs continue post D?
You'd have her come to my house for the dogs twice a week, for the next 10 years (or however long the dogs live)?
Or you meet at a park to exchange them. Most people view dogs like their kids. If these were kids you wouldn't have one go live with you and the other with her. You would arrange a child care schedule and adhere to it. I see no difference here.
So why can't the coparenting of both dogs continue post D?
You'd have her come to my house for the dogs twice a week, for the next 10 years (or however long the dogs live)?
Isn't that what's happening now basically?
So why can't the coparenting of both dogs continue post D?
You'd have her come to my house for the dogs twice a week, for the next 10 years (or however long the dogs live)?
Isn't that what's happening now basically?
Yes, that’s exactly what’s happening now. And I thought maybe that would make it more difficult to completely move on. I’m sensing you guys think otherwise, which definitely gives me something to think about...
So why can't the coparenting of both dogs continue post D?
You'd have her come to my house for the dogs twice a week, for the next 10 years (or however long the dogs live)?
Isn't that what's happening now basically?
Yes, that’s exactly what’s happening now. And I thought maybe that would make it more difficult to completely move on. I’m sensing you guys think otherwise, which definitely gives me something to think about...
Whether it makes it more difficult or not is up to you. But we've had other posters that have done dog coparenting post D.
Whether it makes it more difficult or not is up to you. But we've had other posters that have done dog coparenting post D.
So if we co-parent the dogs, what does that look like in the context of DB'ing?
The way it works now, I try not to be present at the house when she stops by to either pick up or drop off the dogs. But I'm sure that's not sustainable indefinitely. What would I do if she stops by and I'm at the house? Do I talk to her? Ignore her? Be friendly? Be cold and distant? What if she tries to engage me in a conversation? What are the boundaries for DB'ing in a situation like this?
What would I do if she stops by and I'm at the house? Do I talk to her? Ignore her? Be friendly? Be cold and distant? What if she tries to engage me in a conversation? What are the boundaries for DB'ing in a situation like this?
Bro this is DB101. What have you been doing the last year?
You act like you are happy with how things turned out in your life.
You can talk to her and be friendly (think how you would talk to a neighbor). Avoid relationship talks and if she brings it up, just listen and validate. Even if she mentions she thinks it's time to get a divorce, act cool and unaffected by that.
Act just like you did before you met her and had no emotional attachment to her. A cool, confident guy, who has lots going on in his life.
DBX80, I love that so soon after revisiting these forums, you're beginning to step out of the limbo you've been in for a year. Maybe you were already feeling ready--and that's what led you to return.
What would I do if she stops by and I'm at the house? Do I talk to her? Ignore her? Be friendly? Be cold and distant? What if she tries to engage me in a conversation? What are the boundaries for DB'ing in a situation like this?
Avoidance is a first, positive step for many--because they can't keep themselves from peacocking or getting angry! No to "ignore", "cold", or "distant". Think friendly cashier mode. Many of us exchange kids. It's a friendly smile and a wave. Sometimes a few words. Maybe a longer update if there's pertinent medical info--"He has.. flees. I've given him Anti-Flea 3x per day".
My ex never goes in my home. That would seem to allow her to invade and keep tabs on your life--creepy! I also don't know why she'd visit your place 2x/week. Usually, a mid-point is more fair to both parties, or taking turns depending on who is picking up or dropping off.
You act like you are happy with how things turned out in your life.
You can talk to her and be friendly (think how you would talk to a neighbor). Avoid relationship talks and if she brings it up, just listen and validate. Even if she mentions she thinks it's time to get a divorce, act cool and unaffected by that.
Act just like you did before you met her and had no emotional attachment to her. A cool, confident guy, who has lots going on in his life.
This is what I was thinking. I just wasn't sure, because I've been going dark for a long time now. So it would be a matter of switching from "going dark" to "friendly neighbor". Thanks!
DBX80, I love that so soon after revisiting these forums, you're beginning to step out of the limbo you've been in for a year. Maybe you were already feeling ready--and that's what led you to return.
Yes, I think I returned to the forum for help with the next step. I'm done with being in limbo, and ready to move forward.
Avoidance is a first, positive step for many--because they can't keep themselves from peacocking or getting angry! No to "ignore", "cold", or "distant". Think friendly cashier mode. Many of us exchange kids. It's a friendly smile and a wave. Sometimes a few words. Maybe a longer update if there's pertinent medical info--"He has.. flees. I've given him Anti-Flea 3x per day".
This makes perfect sense to me, thank you.
My ex never goes in my home. That would seem to allow her to invade and keep tabs on your life--creepy! I also don't know why she'd visit your place 2x/week. Usually, a mid-point is more fair to both parties, or taking turns depending on who is picking up or dropping off.
Well right now she comes by on Friday to pick up the dogs, and then comes by on Monday to drop them off. Since I'm not at home 99% of the time she stops by, she goes into the house with her key. But maybe I should change this going forward.
Whether it makes it more difficult or not is up to you. But we've had other posters that have done dog coparenting post D.
So if we co-parent the dogs, what does that look like in the context of DB'ing?
The way it works now, I try not to be present at the house when she stops by to either pick up or drop off the dogs. But I'm sure that's not sustainable indefinitely. What would I do if she stops by and I'm at the house? Do I talk to her? Ignore her? Be friendly? Be cold and distant? What if she tries to engage me in a conversation? What are the boundaries for DB'ing in a situation like this?
Have you read sandi's 37 rules? YOu need to. I carried them around on my phone with me in the heart of my sitch! I didn't follow them perfectly, but when I did the impacts were almost immediate. On me! (Felt empowered, more in control, etc). And sometimes even on her.
Have you read sandi's 37 rules? YOu need to. I carried them around on my phone with me in the heart of my sitch! I didn't follow them perfectly, but when I did the impacts were almost immediate. On me! (Felt empowered, more in control, etc). And sometimes even on her.
Yes, I've read them many times. I just wasn't sure if they still applied post-divorce, or after you've decided to move on.
Have you read sandi's 37 rules? YOu need to. I carried them around on my phone with me in the heart of my sitch! I didn't follow them perfectly, but when I did the impacts were almost immediate. On me! (Felt empowered, more in control, etc). And sometimes even on her.
Yes, I've read them many times. I just wasn't sure if they still applied post-divorce, or after you've decided to move on.
But you are not divorced and haven’t moved on.
Have you read sandi's 37 rules? YOu need to. I carried them around on my phone with me in the heart of my sitch! I didn't follow them perfectly, but when I did the impacts were almost immediate. On me! (Felt empowered, more in control, etc). And sometimes even on her.
Yes, I've read them many times. I just wasn't sure if they still applied post-divorce, or after you've decided to move on.
But you are not divorced and haven’t moved on.
Lol, that is absolutely correct LH
DBX, Just my opinion here, take it for what it is worth! The way I view it you are now batting at full count. If I were you, I would take one last swing. No more foul balls, no bunts but swing for the fences and exit the field if it is a strike out. That way there are no regrets but at the same time you can move forward without staying in limbo.
I agree with MLCxH who owes us an update.
Time for a loving are you in or are you out convo with the intention that if she’s out you file for divorce.
If your interested we can work out the details.
I agree with MLCxH who owes us an update.
Time for a loving are you in or are you out convo with the intention that if she’s out you file for divorce.
If your interested we can work out the details.
What would that even look like?
Also, I would be
shocked if she’s not currently seeing someone (whether it be the original OM, or a new OM).
W we’ve been separated for over a year now. This situation isn’t working for me anymore. We can either work on the marriage or get divorced.
But you have to be willing to walk away and d her if she says she doesn’t want to work on the marriage.
Have you read sandi's 37 rules? YOu need to. I carried them around on my phone with me in the heart of my sitch! I didn't follow them perfectly, but when I did the impacts were almost immediate. On me! (Felt empowered, more in control, etc). And sometimes even on her.
Yes, I've read them many times. I just wasn't sure if they still applied post-divorce, or after you've decided to move on.
R2C likes to say, and I agree, ALWAYS be DBin!
Have you read sandi's 37 rules? YOu need to. I carried them around on my phone with me in the heart of my sitch! I didn't follow them perfectly, but when I did the impacts were almost immediate. On me! (Felt empowered, more in control, etc). And sometimes even on her.
Yes, I've read them many times. I just wasn't sure if they still applied post-divorce, or after you've decided to move on.
But you are not divorced and haven’t moved on.
Lol, that is absolutely correct LH
DBX, Just my opinion here, take it for what it is worth! The way I view it you are now batting at full count. If I were you, I would take one last swing. No more foul balls, no bunts but swing for the fences and exit the field if it is a strike out. That way there are no regrets but at the same time you can move forward without staying in limbo.
FTR, I disagree with this. It is your sitch DBX and you can do what you want, but WAWs are like cats. They run the other way when you reach out to them. But sometimes if you sit still and let her come to you, she will want to come and jump in your lap. The one last ditch effort to have a heart-to-heart rarely if ever works. And then the LBH feels devastated and like they just gave up their integrity.
Also, filing for D doesn't mean that you can't have this heart-to-heart later. Some WWs have been jolted by the actual serving of divorce papers. Not all or a majority, but some.