What if my spouse has begun to display contempt for me due to toxic marriage basically our entire marriage?
We have fought for years.
He started out totally in love with me. things I did to push him away, jealousy, insecurity, accusing, suffocating him in his words and always thinking the worst of things.
He has done thing to hurt me too. Refusal to go to counseling. Refusal to talk fairly about problems. Shutting down for weeks and months at a time. Not even acknowledging my existence.
We both react badly off of eachother.
He first wanted a divorce years ago very soon after we first got married. I continued living in the home because I had no job and he felt bad for me. After he said he wanted a divorce it was almost an entire year of living together and him catering to my broken heart. I knew he still loved me deeply though because he would still try to interact with me. Still do things as a married couple like assure me there was no one. And I know there was no one. It was basically because he saw no hope for us. But... I know he kept me around and didnt file because even though he didnt want to admit there was hope, I knew he was still hoping.
We finally decided to give it another shot. I really was so happy. I had my husband back. But he still didnt want to go to counseling. Still would shut down for long periods of time and not go to therapy. But he did start taking me out on dates again and going to family functions. I knew I should be thankful for that and I was but I guess I couldn't handle the withdraw of him still not opening up to me sexually, not showing affection. Etc.
I feel like I pushed for too much too soon. I also believe that my unhealthy life. Like not having any friends and putting all my energy into us and not myself pushed him away more and more.
Our fights are horrible. Me always pushing, him always pulling. He finally said I was pushing him over the edge when I kept trying to communicate. It had been more than a month of no talking and just fighting. I was furious. He would literally stand up and walk away when I would beg him to talk. I admit I freaked out many times because of it.
He said this time we are over but there was no sweetness about it. He literally has this hatred of me. Saying hes so sick of me, cant stand me. I feel like I blew it this time. But... I feel like he did too. He wouldnt go to counseling or really even read a book without my forcing him too.
If this is the second time he has said he wants a divorce and there is no fixing it because it is too toxic... should I just finally give up like he wants me to?
He also has said we are too unhealthy emotionally for eachother and we make eachother miserable and he wishes for us to be happy in the end with ourselves. I asked if we were able to learn to be more healthy individually if he felt we could be happy together. He got angry and said no, stop asking questions because it's just torturing both of us.
I feel in my heart we could be happy because when we are good we are good. It's our faults within that get in the way. I know if I had my own life and stopped depending so much on him we probably would not have gotten to this point...
I'm lost. Please help.
Every interaction I have with him is downright toxic now and I am seeing sides to him I have never seen before. What do I do?
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Ty for taking the time to reply to me. I will check the links tomorrow.
Hi Pharm,
Sorry you are here. Its sounds like you're feeling plenty of intense anxiety and many here know how hard it can be.
Some of the vets around here will likely have better advice than I, I just want to say that I can relate. My W is somewhat of an avoidant, and I'm anxious. You (anxious) and H (avoidant) have a similar dynamic which can get toxic when taken to the extremes. One of the links Cadet posted (pursuit and distance) can help explain the dynamic.
Many of us here are fixers. You may be as well. We want to fix the issues, fix the marriage and fix our partners feelings. This leads to control and desperation. We cant fix them, we cant control them. Do your best to understand that. Easier said than done as I revert back alot. You control one person, YOU.
Dont look for answers as to why he is broken. Its a waste of time many fall in to. What you want to do is fix YOU. Ive read that in pursuit/distance or anxious/avoidant relationships, as one spouse gets nearer to a secure baseline, the other spouse CAN become less extreme. No guarantees of course. Your goal is to do everything for you. Not H or the marriage. If you fix you, yes maybe he comes back, and if not, you are still better in your future life.
Self reflect on what actions and behaviors of yours contributed to this. 180 those behaviors and make them permanent. Feel your feelings, dont mask them. For anxiety, CBD oil, counseling, swimming and other exercises have helped.
His words and actions cut deep and I'm sorry, I know it hurts. What he is feeling is what he is feeling NOW. As you've seen, feelings can change. You're likely the brunt of all his feelings as it is easier to blame than to face them himself. Easier to avoid and be a victim. He may realize this, he may not. These things take a long time and patience is an asset.
Good luck Pharm.
Hi pharm, Sorry you are here, but there is lots of support here.
First of all, make sure you have the Divorce Remedy book by Michelle Weiner Davis. She addresses a lot of what you have dealt with. This book is for your eyes only, and not for your spouse. Do not mention it to them.
Go through all the threads listed in Cadet's welcome email and study them. There are so many gems there. These threads will help you to fight your natural instinct. Your instinct will tell you to pursue him, beg, plead, reason. These things are deadly. Stop doing them right now.
They will also advise you about how to get your own life, or GAL, which will address your point about losing yourself for the marriage. Work on your self first.
I know this is painful, scary, and hard. Keep posting here, and look at the other threads for good advice that can apply to your situation.
I know if I had my own life and stopped depending so much on him we probably would not have gotten to this point... What do I do?
I'm so sorry you're here. While you wait for the book, check out Sandi's 37 rules. It sounds like you're ahead of the game in already knowing what your focus should be---GAL (Get-A-Life).
Hey Pharm,
I'm not sure how much advice we can truly give you yet. It sounds like y'all had some problems, some normal, some not so normal.
I think you should take the pressure off of him and off of you for the time being. Take some time and space to breath and figure out who you are and what you want.
If every interaction is bad right now you need to change how you interact or limit your interactions.
I don't know how to reply all to everyone but this is in response to all of the responses i have read so far.
First, I have ordered the Divorce Remedy book and in the meantime I have printed off the Dos and Don'ts List and I am browsing through the above links that Cadet posted.
There is just sooo much to say and when I post I think about a million other things I could have divulged to you all.
I guess the biggest thing that confuses me or that I wonder about is if I truly should even pursue this at all. I know in my heart I do not want to have a divorce. I know in my heart that I have contributed to so much of these problems. My husband is bipolar and I have a personality disorder. No, I am not a narcissist. I sometimes think he may be though. I have trouble regulating my emotions. And when he withdraws or is cruel then I freak out on him.
This has been the dynamic for years. Recently, he has said things like,
"Im so sick of you..."
"I cannot stand you anymore."
"You suck the happiness out of life"...
He even told me that he hated me. I never ever have heard him talk this way before.
Then in his calm moments he has said,
"Not all of my unhappiness is from us. I am not happy with my family (his parents will die soon), financial worries, his social life (lack of it) and he only keeps his job because its stable but it isn't what I want to be doing. I am not happy in general."
"I want peace and not to create toxicity or to receive it. I don't know what's going to make me happy in the end but this cycle is destructive to both of us and it just worsens."
"We do not work."
During that conversation, I agreed. Because I ACTUALLY agreed. It is toxic. I told him that I think we should focus on ourselves and he agreed and then said that we both have deep issues and he wants both of to be happy inside with ourselves after all of this.
I thought that meant we should focus on ourselves and work on the marriage later but he is saying this marriage has no chance and that he is done. He wants me to stop trying to connect with him. I see him trying to detach from me.
Would it be wrong to even want this marriage to work knowing that is how he feels? Knowing that we hurt each other?
I sort of feel calm a lot of the time which is a drastic difference from the first time he said he wanted a divorce years ago. I had a few days of breaking down and pursuing but since then I have backed off pretty much entirely. I stay in my corner of the house, go to work, keep to myself. Years ago that was not the case. I was an absolute mess for several months.
I feel sort of relieved in a way because I know that I have this time to really focus on me. I have neglected and avoided focusing on me and putting all of my energy into us. But just because I feel relieved to have this chance to clean myself up and attend to my long avoided issues (the number one being getting a social life), doesnt mean I want to get a divorce. HE DOES though. He has said he has had enough and I pushed him too far.
My mom told me if ever there is a chance for this marriage to ever work, I would have to completely give up all hope that it could. I would have to NEVER bring up any mention of hope to him.
So... I guess I can keep that hope to myself. Either way, I have to attend to me. I wish he would attend to him as well to better himself.. I wish he could want to put in the effort I have. As I said, we both have issues. The difference is, I have been to years of counseling by myself when he wouldn't go. I stopped drinking. I found a job in the government. But when I look back, he continues to drink, to watch porn, to isolate, and has never once tried to go to therapy. And as far as him getting medicated for his depression he said no way, and that I can understand as he is active duty and is would make him not eligible to deploy.
A friend of mine said if I was in the military and saving my marriage was the mission, I would have a ton of medals. But while I once thought that to be true, I think all the therapy and the book reading and all were not the full answer. I applied bits and peices of what I learned, and I certainly made big changes that I am proud of myself for! But what I never did was learn to get my own life. These past few years have been my marriage first, us first, me last. And somehow deep down I knew that was probably the most important thing I can do. I don't know why I couldnt...
Im rambling. I truly do love this man. I have only written about the toxicity. The troubles. But there is another side to us and its what makes me want to work harder. He gets me. He has been someone I have been in love with since I first met him in high school. We did not get married until years later, in fact we lost touch for about 15 years. But i never forgot him, always compared people to him. I love the man, I really do. I get so angry that we both have such messed up pasts that have interferred with our marriage. It doesn't seem fair.
When someone says they are not happy, that you have beaten all of the "care" out of them, that its toxic and they want it to end... does that fall into another category? Is there any hope? I just feel there is still. I don't know.
Should you D or not D, is there hope...the one to best answer that question is you. Take the time to think about it, you dont need a decision today. I still ask myself daily and the others here keep giving me good feedback. Its a decision you live with the rest of your life. It doesnt look like you have kids which lessens complexity, thankfully.
Its sounds like you don't want it, is that true? Its ok either way and its ok to change your mind. If you make the decision to D, make sure you have no doubt and consistently want it. I'm 8+ months in limbo and neither W nor I can make the call to D. At first she said all kinds of terrible things like your H did. Its a vicious defense mechanism. "We are toxic for each other", "I never truly loved you", "You're abusive and hurtful", "you make me anxious", "im 100 percent sure I want D and I'm checked out". It continued quite a bit. One of the reasons the vets recommend no relationship chats. After a few months in I heard, "I still love you", "I dont know what I want".
Mental illness is no joke. It sounds like he needs help as well but it shouldn't be you to push him to get help. You're his W and partner. He doesn't want to perceive you as a mother or counselor. He wants or wanted to be loved for who he is, good and bad. If down the road, the loving support is there, he may open up. He may not.
If he doesnt change, will you want him back? Are you willing to wait it out to see if a change occurs? He may always be a distancer, are you ok with that?
You ask a really good question and that is if I want it. To be honest for so long I thought yes but now that I see how much pain I am causing him and that he causes me I'm almost in agreeance with him.
The one thing I keep going back to is that I know in my heart that if I had my own life and didn't depend on him and other people to fulfill my joy so many issues wouldn't have become issues. There has been an unhealthy dynamic from the start that we both went into this way and we both know that it needs to change. If he told me today he wanted to work on this marriage if he told me to day he wanted to be with me and that he loves me I would absolutely want to be with him.
But to keep chasing someone and trying to force something doesn't seem genuine it seems the opposite of love. Yes I do love this man I love him very much and he does things the pisses me off he does things that hurt me but a lot of those things I don't think would hurt me so badd if I had others to rely on. An example would be how hes such a homebody but I am not home body I like to go out and do things I love to be outdoors. I don't think that that should break a relationship because the 2 are different. I saw my grandparents married in my grandfather was just like my husband he would sit in a recliner in drink and he loved to be watching TV and just keep to himself and then work outdoors on small projects he would be social from time to time but for the most part he was just a guy that liked to be by himself. From what my mom told me my grandma was very lonely for a long time but she learned to get her own life in to make friends that would do the things that she wants to do and it worked for them.
I've always had a problem depending on people to fill voids in my life and in fact every single relationship I've ever had has come to an end because of that dependency in my insecurities so I know that it's something I need to change for me because it will just continue if I ever have another relationship again and I don't want that.
I want my marriage to work that's what I do know I think it is sort of a bit tragic to see 2 people who genuinely do love each other have to end because of problems like this. I know deep in my heart he still cares about me and I wouldn't say that if I didn't really think it. I guess I agree with a lot of people here in that I don't like the word divorce I don't like giving up its not something I want for my life. I do agree that quite a bit of space is needed for both of us and this is just from my point of view. I wish that he felt the same way and I struggle because I don't want to for someone who truly wants to be away from me.
Meant to send that reply to you
Meant to send that reply to you
I am sure that core knows that.
Sorry, internet forums are new to me
Sorry, internet forums are new to me
Keep posting you will get there.
You ask a really good question and that is if I want it. To be honest for so long I thought yes but now that I see how much pain I am causing him and that he causes me I'm almost in agreeance with him.
Unless you're actively abusing him, he is responsible for his thoughts and feelings, not you. Setting boundaries would be good for you both. Don't take all the blame.
The one thing I keep going back to is that I know in my heart that if I had my own life and didn't depend on him and other people to fulfill my joy so many issues wouldn't have become issues. There has been an unhealthy dynamic from the start that we both went into this way and we both know that it needs to change. If he told me today he wanted to work on this marriage if he told me to day he wanted to be with me and that he loves me I would absolutely want to be with him.
You've your answer for today, right here. No need to rush out and get the D. Do though rush working on your behaviors.
But to keep chasing someone and trying to force something doesn't seem genuine it seems the opposite of love. Yes I do love this man I love him very much and he does things the pisses me off he does things that hurt me but a lot of those things I don't think would hurt me so badd if I had others to rely on. An example would be how hes such a homebody but I am not home body I like to go out and do things I love to be outdoors. I don't think that that should break a relationship because the 2 are different. I saw my grandparents married in my grandfather was just like my husband he would sit in a recliner in drink and he loved to be watching TV and just keep to himself and then work outdoors on small projects he would be social from time to time but for the most part he was just a guy that liked to be by himself. From what my mom told me my grandma was very lonely for a long time but she learned to get her own life in to make friends that would do the things that she wants to do and it worked for them.
This is good you see this. Drop the rope and dont chase him. He'll come back, or he won't. His choice. Let go of the control. Probably the hardest part and you have to do it, either way. The chasing makes him run further away. Chase yourself and your needs. I bet you can make some friends easily by signing up at a gym and taking classes. Youll GAL, improve yourself and thats time giving you both space
I've always had a problem depending on people to fill voids in my life and in fact every single relationship I've ever had has come to an end because of that dependency in my insecurities so I know that it's something I need to change for me because it will just continue if I ever have another relationship again and I don't want that.
How can you root out the insecurities? Something to think about as vulnerable as it'll make you feel.
I want my marriage to work that's what I do know I think it is sort of a bit tragic to see 2 people who genuinely do love each other have to end because of problems like this. I know deep in my heart he still cares about me and I wouldn't say that if I didn't really think it. I guess I agree with a lot of people here in that I don't like the word divorce I don't like giving up its not something I want for my life. I do agree that quite a bit of space is needed for both of us and this is just from my point of view. I wish that he felt the same way and I struggle because I don't want to for someone who truly wants to be away from me.
How he feels today is exactly that...today. You're like me...I feel and believe my W love me still. Do we truly know that? We may be projecting. Like you I hope its not the case but it could be. He may do the same thing. My W thought for awhile that I was ready to D her. I wasnt but she assures me I gave off the vibe. I didnt. She's projecting. Try cadets links, learn validation, boundaries, appreciate yourself and get to the gym. Thank yourself for the time you are giving you. It'll go a long way no matter the outcome.
I have just read through another one of your posts and I think you are right we sort of have a similar situation. I sometimes wonder who exactly my husband is... I wonder if it's me being abusive or him or both. I've never hit him and he is never had me but we have sure said some completely awful things to each other and streamed in each other's faces and throwing things at the wall that doesn't happen often but it has happened in when it gets dirty it gets dirty.
You mentioned in your other post that your wife stonewalled you for several months and that is exactly what I have been through and it is the one thing they can make me a nasty person is someone that pretends that I do not exist and someone that doesn't validate how I feel even when I tell them that what they are doing hurts they decide to do it more.
I also wonder if your wife would ever be someone to be on a forum like this? The fact that she wrote a letter about you one time signals that she at least has some sort of introspection even if it's blaming you. On my end my husband would not be caught dead on a site like this he wouldn't have Enough care to be exploring these sites. He just seems like he has an amazing ability to shut down and completely tune everything out. Sometimes I wonder when he tells me that he does care and that he does think about certain things if it's really just an act because he certainly does not show it and I've never caught him trying to look up ways to better us or himself... it's always been me.
pharm ~
Sometimes relationships can be mutually emotionally abusive. Especially between two people with insecurities. It sounds like you are struggling with this question - how much he contributed, and how much you contributed. \
What you can do with the time and space right now is work on yourself. What are the personal issues that are contributing to your role in the conflict? That work on yourself will only benefit you going forward towards becoming more secure. And the more secure you are, the more you can function well even in difficult relationships where the other person has not changed.
What you won't be able to do is instigate change in your H. It sounds like he needs to go through some deep personal work as well for things to change for the better. You have ZERO control over this process. And ultimately it will be up to you to decide how long to stick it out.
Just to be crystal clear, I am not here to judge you or accuse you of anything. I have no idea, and often the labels attached to situations muddy the waters. I'm just giving some food for thought because the questions you struggle with are ones that I have also struggled with.
I get so angry that we both have such messed up pasts that have interfered with our marriage.
That is all of us. Channel that anger into fixing you. Focus on your personal growth. You spouse is a mirror reflecting things back to you.
Let go of the need to control him. Let go of the need to argue with him. Love him now that you see all his flaws.
I have heard "I hate you dad" and seen the burning anger in each of my children's eyes. I have responded with something similar to this "Yes, I can see that, and it is OK. I still love you". Works with spouses as well.
It is the way they feel. Our job is to understand that with compassion and understanding. Might be really hard to wrap your mind around.
He isnt acting rageful anymore but that is because I have stopped bugging him.
He seems calm, which is what he wanted "peace"... he makes small talk. Only about things that are important. He texted about our taxes for instance.
What do I do now??? I feel the most longing need to reach out to him but I know it would be a terrible mistake.
1. Do I just ignore him?
2. If he approaches me do I make it one word answers?
3. I asked him by text to borrow his truck to bring over a large item from my mom's home... he replied that we can do it this weekend. Do I just tell him I need the truck but I can do it on my own?
If he does ask me for help with something do I help him? I havent got the book yet Divorce Remedy so i have no idea what to do in certain situations.
Depends...
If it's important business matters like taxes, then do not ignore him.
If it's non-important matters, you don't have to respond right away, or even all the time.
Do not initiate contact or pursue.
2. If he approaches me do I make it one word answers?
Depends...
If it's important business matters like taxes, then have a normal adult conversation as you would at work.
If it's non-important matters, listen and validate.
Do not initiate contact or pursue. Don't be so available all the time, focus on yourself... hobbies, working out.
3. I asked him by text to borrow his truck to bring over a large item from my mom's home... he replied that we can do it this weekend. Do I just tell him I need the truck but I can do it on my own?
If he does ask me for help with something do I help him? I havent got the book yet Divorce Remedy so i have no idea what to do in certain situations.
If you can move the item on your own, then do it own your own. Show him you are independent, and that you don't need him. It will help you build confidence, and it's attractive.
(I'm not 100% certain on this next one... so let's see what other vets suggest here)
If he asks you for help, and it's something that really needs help then help him. But make him fit your schedule, you are busy doing your own stuff.
And in the past when he has said he wanted to be over, he has eventually after some time started asking me to do things like hang out, which eventually led us to talking again. Should I (if he ever) decline to talk or hang out if he asks?
I'm starting to see this is a super unhealthy situation we had.
I would push. He would pull away. I would push and get upset he would say its over.
Then when I left him alone he would eventually come around. And I would always be there.
I seem to think that wont happen this time because the way he is acting. He isnt being mean anymore, he says he wishes me well but it's over. He seems sad this time but determined to not have anything to do with me.
Anyway IF it were ti happen.. I decline?
Wouldnt that push him away further?
Also he said after some time he wants to be friends maybe... which is what he said the first time he wanted a divorce except the first time he wanted a divorce he wanted to be friends immediately after and I could tell he still had feeling for me.
This time around he said after time he would like to. he legit wants nothing to do with me. Sorey I'm not thinking straight. I'm confused and I cant seem to stop thinking about him. I'm exhausted after work and just sitting here, miserable and no energy.
I am sorry I dont know if anyone has broken down on these boards before.
In addition to feeling awful about what is happening, today my husband texted me that he lost his position at work and had a breakdown in front of his supervisor at work.
Being an idiot I walked in the room with almost tears and he said he cant deal with my guilting him anymore. I cant help but to feel bad. I feel like he told me that so I would feel guilty but hes saying he cant deal with me guilting him.
I feel like I have ruined his life and hes just taking it all out on me now
Like others have said, you need to focus on yourself first. Not so much on how you should respond IF he comes around.
Examine your part of the damage done to the M and work on what you can improve on yourself. There is always something.
It may really be over, or it may not. What he thinks/decided is out of your control so focus on what you have control over - YOU.
Also he said after some time he wants to be friends maybe... which is what he said the first time he wanted a divorce except the first time he wanted a divorce he wanted to be friends immediately after and I could tell he still had feeling for me.
Would you want to be friends with him the way he is now? Would you want to be friends with yourself the way you currently are? Just something to think about. His words don't mean much.....don't read too much into it.
This time around he said after time he would like to. he legit wants nothing to do with me. Sorey I'm not thinking straight. I'm confused and I cant seem to stop thinking about him. I'm exhausted after work and just sitting here, miserable and no energy.
I am sorry that you are feeling down. You need to GAL, find other things to occupy your mind other than HIM. Marriage is only part of life, not life itself.
hugs!
You're right. I really think hes going through a breakdown and I cant help but blame myself. I apologize profusely and he says he is okay the point of hearing sorry. What I havent done is ever heard a sorry front him. Its always me panicking at the thought of us not working, pushing him too far, leaving him alone for weeks at a time, him him him. I have some major issues with abandonement. I've beat myself up for years and tried counseling, skills workshops, all on my own. I never considered maybe we just aren't a good match and maybe he stinks for me. I'm wondering what the hell is wrong with me that I would even keep trying while neglecting myself. Any self help has been for him and us. So it was never really self help. I've never once considered his coping skills (the heavy drinking every day, the video game addictions, the isolation, the being up for 5 days and sleeping for almost 2 days, the refusal to talk to his family and then blaming it on me, the withholding finances, withholding affection, shutting down, etc) were all his issue alone. I've mulled over and over how can I make it better. I never once thought, I CANT, and just dropped it. My pushing has made us both worse. It is so so hard for me to let go. I think I need some serious soul searching. There were so many red flags I have ignored and I think at this point the only thing I can do is give up entirely on that. Which makes me wonder why I'm even on this board now. I signed up wanting to know how to save US when I think what I need to do is save myself.
Sounds like you both have a lot of big emotions right now.
You need some time and space to sort out what is yours and what is his (emotionally). I sense a lot of entanglement which creates this fog of confusion.
Do you really feel you ruined his life? I hope not. Guilt, shame, feeling fundamentally “bad”... these are not typically healthy emotions because they make assumptions about your fundamental character.
The thing is... yes I do. I do feel I have ruined his life by all the things he is telling me. But then I look back and I think on facts, and they don't always line up. This causes me confusion.
Here is what I do admit. I do admit I have problems with insecurity and jealousy. I wrote about it in my other post. But, I did tell him all of this about myself before we got married. In fact, I used to speak in great depth about my problems and he always assured me we would work on them. (Promised me that he would go to counseling if we ever needed to. That was not true. He has refused since we got married. He also added me to accounts when we were engaged, normal things people joining a union would do. But then the first big fight we had, he removed me from all accounts and has never given me access to them again. Didnt put my name on the house deed when we bought a house.) Looking back on it, I see now that his idea of "working on it" was just to avoid doing anything that would make me question him. There have been a few times I have said, "Look, I know I am this way. I hate it about myself. I wish that you would work with me. If you feel you want to go do something, don't NOT do it. Just keep me informed, and I will learn to be okay with it as long as you and I can keep an open line of communication and we are respecting each other." He would always say he didn't feel that I meant it and it was easier to just avoid it altogether. Then he would resume not doing anything, always drinking heavily in his recliner playing video games for hours and hours.
The only social interaction he ever has is whoever he talks to at work and to people on his video games. So, last week when I returned from staying at my mother's house at almost 6 in the morning and heard him talking to a female on his phone, I freaked out. It isn't the norm. Why would he wait until after he tells me he is done, after I leave to take a break at my mom's, to begin talking/laughing to some girl at 6 am?
I lost it. He became enraged. Said it was a friend and "he can't even talk to friends". I felt horrible, apologized profusely. It didnt matter.
Why couldnt he have done these things and worked with me when we were getting along? Why wait until he says he is done to take back his lost freedom? I used to write him handwritten letters asking him to go to counseling. To work on us. To tell him marriage takes work and nurturing and I want to nip things in the bud before they become big issues.
He also says I am the reason he doesn't talk to his family. That's not right. There have been many times I have invited his family to come for the holidays. He would say don't. I would encourage him to call his mom and his sister on their birthdays, he wouldn't... When he came back from overseas, (we were newly married) he wanted to go with me and I said well dont you want to stop at your moms? You havent seen her in so long. He refused. He didnt even want me to bring them to the airport, and I thought that was so weird. It seemed off. Looking back, I see now that it was weird. He doesnt talk to his father and I have never met his father because apprently he is a real pos, beat him as a child. The only person I was uncomfortable with in his family and spoke up about was his brother. Before I even met his brother he would tell me how he is a drug addict, a pu**y hound", etc. I immediatley was on edge after hearing that. And the time his brother DID come to visit, they ended up at a strip club. I only found out about it because I found reciepts he left out. He lied and said he as going somewhere else that night. It wasnt the first time he lied about where he was. He lied when he was on deployment, got off the phone with me and said he was going to bed, called me the next day telling me how he broke his hand. I asked how did you do that? He said I was out at the bar. I said i thought you were going to sleep? Oooops.
So, am I controlling? Yes. Trust issues? Yes. Bgi time. I hate it about myself. Its ruined my life and my relatioships.
But not everything he is blaming me for is true. He makes the choice to not work with me to overcome this and other issues. He makes the choice to drink almost 12 beers a night and jerk off to porn while I cry because he hasnt touched me in so long. He makes the choice to refuse to tell me about his day, and then get mad that I supposedly never ask him about how he is... He has shut me down so many times. So so many times I cant even count. Even when we are getting along, I would ask him things, about how work is, etc. He wouldnt want to talk. So im just confused how his perception is what it is.
But there are things I am ashamed of. The not trusting him. The accusing (i have accused him quite a bit). The repeated texts and phone calls when he would ask to be left alone. those things i feel bad about, ive always felt bad about them....
I feel like even if i detach and work on myself, he will still always blame me and never work on himself. I keep bending and bending... (seeking therapy when he wouldnt, i quit drinking and I found myself a job after he grew resentments towards me for staying home even though before we got married he said that was what he wanted) he has remained the same and become more rigid with time.
Hi Pharm, don't have time to write more just now--but I read your update and sending you ((hugs)).
Hello everyone. Been a few weeks. Since I posted last, I found out husband was deploying because of the coronavirus. Now he is on standby.
I LOST it when I found out. I was angry and acted as such, I was devastated and acted as such. Bawled for an entire day. At one poi t I asked for a hug because I was just so upset and scared I wouldnt see him again (hes a heavy smoker and I was worried he would get the virus and well.. I was being irrational. I asked him did it bother him that I hugged him and I am crying and his voice cracked a bit and he said no and "you think all this doesnt effect me?"
Since then we got a long much better. We still fight as always but not the all out wars like a few weeks ago. We even hung out and went to Home Depot. Big improvement. But when I mentioned "us" like I knew I shouldn't have... he was like, "stop. We are still getting divorced. I havent changed my mind. We dont work we dont get along it was too much strain and fighting... please stop bringing it up because I have to hurt you over and over and it's getting tiresome."
I guess he enjoys being friendly on his terms and that is working ok for him but for me its torture. I want him and I cannot have him. I get excited when we get along and then he reminds me we are friends nothing more.
what do you all think of this? I recently moved my couch from the living room into the room I have been sleeping in and made myself a pretty nice what feels like a studio apartment. I did this because it allows me more space and privacy.
Should I be distancing from him and doing no contact?
Or should I be playing it cool, pretending I expect nothing, getting hurt over and over deep down?
And for those who did tell me to GAL. Well, I picked up more hours at work. But I genuinely do not like my job at the moment. Also, I have no friends and worh the quarantine happening I cannot get out right now. I feel so depressed and this added global crisis is making it even more hard!
(I figured I would post a new thread since the other one I did a while back is 3 pages to shift through. It's been a while since I have posted and I am still a newbie here. I stopped reading the boards etc with the stress of other things (quarantine, work stuff) but I am back.)
Hello everyone. Been a few weeks. Since I posted last, I found out husband was deploying because of the coronavirus. Now he is on standby.
I LOST it when I found out. I was angry and acted as such, I was devastated and acted as such. Bawled for an entire day. At one poi t I asked for a hug because I was just so upset and scared I wouldnt see him again (hes a heavy smoker and I was worried he would get the virus and well.. I was being irrational. I asked him did it bother him that I hugged him and I am crying and his voice cracked a bit and he said no and "you think all this doesnt effect me?"
Since then we got a long much better. We still fight as always but not the all out wars like a few weeks ago. We even hung out and went to Home Depot. Big improvement. But when I mentioned "us" like I knew I shouldn't have... he was like, "stop. We are still getting divorced. I havent changed my mind. We dont work we dont get along it was too much strain and fighting... please stop bringing it up because I have to hurt you over and over and it's getting tiresome."
I guess he enjoys being friendly on his terms and that is working ok for him but for me its torture. I want him and I cannot have him. I get excited when we get along and then he reminds me we are friends nothing more.
what do you all think of this? I recently moved my couch from the living room into the room I have been sleeping in and made myself a pretty nice what feels like a studio apartment. I did this because it allows me more space and privacy.
Should I be distancing from him and doing no contact?
Or should I be playing it cool, pretending I expect nothing, getting hurt over and over deep down?
And for those who did tell me to GAL. Well, I picked up more hours at work. But I genuinely do not like my job at the moment. Also, I have no friends and worh the quarantine happening I cannot get out right now. I feel so depressed and this added global crisis is making it even more hard!
Pharm75, I usually hang out at MLC forum, but check in here sometimes. Please take care of yourself. Do you have family? Can you join other support groups on FB or elsewhere? Can you find a way to volunteer to help you with your mental state? It may be a risk for you to step out, but you can do some possible online volunteering. Check out some ways to get out of your own head.
Read, watch movies or TV, search for inspirational things to read... but please stop even internally begging for him to change his mind. The more R talks you try to have the further away he will get. I know it's so very hard. Please try to reconnect with who you were before you met him. Maybe a journal where you can vent your fears. Start listening to your own mind and heart. At least in the US, we can get a library card and download books via Kindle app and read for free. Try that too.
Just stop clinging on to him and if being his "Friend" is making it too hard to let him go, then yes, stop being his friend. Be a good roommate, but don't spend too much time fantasizing about how it used to be. It's tough for me. I've been with my H for 24 years married for 21.5 and we have 2 beautiful teenagers. We still share the same house, but for all intents we are roommates.
Try as much as you can to do SC or NC. Be good to yourself. Blessings
You had three threads open on this forum...I have merged them all together. Please stick to one thread until you've reached 100 postings/replies. The reason for this is so that you can follow your journey and have easy access to all posting to you.
Pharm75, I usually hang out at MLC forum, but check in here sometimes. Please take care of yourself. Do you have family? Can you join other support groups on FB or elsewhere? Can you find a way to volunteer to help you with your mental state? It may be a risk for you to step out, but you can do some possible online volunteering. Check out some ways to get out of your own head.
Read, watch movies or TV, search for inspirational things to read... but please stop even internally begging for him to change his mind. The more R talks you try to have the further away he will get. I know it's so very hard. Please try to reconnect with who you were before you met him. Maybe a journal where you can vent your fears. Start listening to your own mind and heart. At least in the US, we can get a library card and download books via Kindle app and read for free. Try that too.
Just stop clinging on to him and if being his "Friend" is making it too hard to let him go, then yes, stop being his friend. Be a good roommate, but don't spend too much time fantasizing about how it used to be. It's tough for me. I've been with my H for 24 years married for 21.5 and we have 2 beautiful teenagers. We still share the same house, but for all intents we are roommates.
Try as much as you can to do SC or NC. Be good to yourself. Blessings
Thank you for your reply. So, is it the general consensus that I must completely abandon hope and let go altogether? Being friends will certainly be too hard. The only way I see this GAL working is to not remain friendly with him. Gives me too much hope.
I'm afraid that if I let go completely we both will move on and it just seems like that's contradictory to why people are here, to prevent divorce. I just wish this wasnt all so confusing.
Pharm, Please dont misunderstand my post. I am not saying to stop standing. You may want to read about detachment which Cadet shares in the welcome thread. When we say let go, it means allowing them time and space to think for themselves. By continuing to focus on their issues, thier pain, their thoughts about us or anything they dont willingly share, we are unconsciously trying to manipulate them. We want them to be who they used to be and they can't. They are in pain and lost and confused.
And darn it, so are we. We do smart contact to keep lines open without flooding them with out emotional baggage which tight now is heavy. They cant take it. So we focus on us so we have something to give if and when they turn back. But a must be patient. We must not cling to them. we must be our own life preserver.
Then when we've truly learned how to take care of ourselves for ourselves, we can be confident that when they do turn back, we wont fall into the same issues we had before. It is not about giving up, it is about letting go.
Hopefully this makes sense. Blessings
The one thing I keep going back to is that I know in my heart that if I had my own life and didn't depend on him and other people to fulfill my joy so many issues wouldn't have become issues. I've always had a problem depending on people to fill voids in my life and in fact every single relationship I've ever had has come to an end because of that.
I'm afraid that if I let go completely we both will move on and it just seems like that's contradictory to why people are here, to prevent divorce. I just wish this wasnt all so confusing.
Hi Pharm75,
I'd challenge this thinking. Suppose you let go and tried to be the best version of yourself. I suspect for you that'd mean staying single and learning to depend on yourself instead of others. After say 3 months, what would cause you to download Tinder, instead of making another go with your ex?
Note, I am NOT saying you should let go completely.
Pharm,
Right now, you have to change the way that you look at him. He's a roommate and you can be courteous and friendly, i.e., just as you would anyone that you come face to face with. That being said, he's not friend material at the moment. He is only thinking of himself and what wants to make himself feel better. I know that what we say here is contradictory to what most people would think to do or say, but it is necessary to drop the rope and allow him the time and space to figure himself out.
I would continue to go about my way and if he wants to talk, listen and validate. If he's chatty enough, you just might be able to pick up some of what is on his mind. Yes, you are concerned about the health crisis right now and rightly so for everyone. Now, when he gets in one of those moods and wants to pick a fight...don't get into it w/him. There are times when they do this to bait us into arguing w/them...it gives them a justification for what they are doing or plan to do. You can always say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and see how he reacts or you can say that you will discuss it further w/him when he calms down. Try to remember...you can't rationalize w/someone who is emotionally irrational, angry, depressed or anxious.
You have to have faith and hope that things will work out, but you do have to drop that rope, focus on yourself and what you need to do about the finances, bank accounts, etc. I hope that you are watching your credit cards and bank accounts closely...because he could very well be spending money that isn't on your radar.
This is the time for you to focus on yourself, do the things that you've put off doing, i.e., make a list of those things and start checking them off, go for a walk, get out and get a coffee, get take out and go so outside and just enjoy the fresh air. These things will help you focus on something other than your h during this crisis. I don't use the words "move on", but I do use the words "move forward) and that is what you would be doing by doing some of the things that I suggested you do. If and when he opts to return to the relationship, he will have a lot of hard work to do in order to earn your trust again. Don't sweep this incident under the rug because at some point, it will need to be discussed and dealt with...but that is much further down the road.
For now, again, focus on you and what you need to do to heal yourself, take the time to grieve for the death of the relationship and know that no matter what happens, you are going to be fine. No matter what happens, we are here for you. Continue to have faith, hope and one more thing....dig deeper for patience. If you are tempted to say or do something out of anger, hurt, etc., come here to vent. We have very strong shoulders for posters to lean on.