Link to first thread:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2878654&page=1Link to second thread:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2884058&page=1**************************************************************************************************************************************
H37 Me 36
T 7 M 3
D16 H's from previous relationship
D17 from my previous relationship
EA started in mid Oct 2019 went to PA in early Jan 2020
H planned to leave MR for life with OW
OW left H Mid Feb 2020
Hey WF, this is so my H too. I'm coming to learn that a number of things he introduced to me-- bands, an NPR show, apps-- are things he got from AP. It all feels dirty to me right now but also I really enjoy some of these things. (I just want to mentally Lysol it all.) I would take it for what it is and yes, mentally check out. I know this is NOT validating but I kind of perfected (during the worst of him telling me how much in love they were) eye contact, nodding, looking like I'm listening, and actually just repeating WTF inside my head, or focusing on telling myself to check out, calm down, reacting right now won't help anything, trying to slow down my breath consciously until I was calm again.
The funny thing is she didn't introduce him to things which literally just makes me laugh. He went and did all these things with her that I said I wanted to do, or go eat, or go see. So when he tells me this sh*t I just roll my eyes and either say I know because I went there when I was GALing and not telling him a thing about where I was going or what I was doing, or I'd say "that's good to know; I'll keep it in mind." I honestly relish in the fact of them going to these places and doing these things thinking "yeah you had a great time on my planned dates. Hope you enjoyed me all over your entire relationship."
Weirdly the love stuff doesn't really bother me much either. I knew how hard and how fast he fell for her. It was written all over him. I've know him a long time. It's fairly easy for me to truly validate when he talks about this stuff. As bat crap crazy as it sounds I do genuinely feel bad about how bad his heart was broken. Like part of me is laughing hysterically, but for the most part I am sorry he was so swept up and crushed so quickly. What's hard there is he says things that she said or did, and all I can think is "OMG how dumb are you?? 2 days after she broke up with her bf she was already regretting it you moron. CAN YOU NOT READ PEOPLE AT ALL???" All these things are coming to him in pieces since we had that big talk about it. And he likes to share them with him since I was the genius who had to say to him, "are you really sure this was completely out of the blue?" I just nod and say "oh man, sorry about that."
The mentally checking out thing which is not validating, and kinda on the edge of DBing is what I need to be doing when he's swinging wildly from us/our/home to separate households/him/moving out. That's something I could've really used Wednesday. I'm going to have to remember to just breathe through it.
I think you are handling all of this with an enormous amount of grace and class. You should hold your head up high. You're amazing.
I do really appreciate this, but if H and I had a reality show, I would look a lot less full of grace during this mess. There's be so much ugly crying, and crying myself to sleep. And rage. I can't even begin to explain how opposite of grace we were last night. On the way home from bday dinner for D16 a song called What You Did by Mahalia came on the radio. It's about a cheating lover and how she wishes she could forgive him but she'd never expect any one to forgive her for that behavior so he just needs to go. 2 seconds in H says he loves the song and turns it up. 20 seconds in he realizes how on the nose the lyrics are, and turns it down and starts cracking jokes about how he doesn't really like the song, the vocals are nice but the lyrics are crap, I turn it up and say I love it the lyrics are amazing. We go back and forth like that a while laughing our butts off with the girls int he back ear buds in completely ignoring us as teenagers do. I, we, what ever are a hot mess. And about as classless as people can get at this point.
On the way home from bday dinner for D16 a song called What You Did by Mahalia came on the radio. It's about a cheating lover and how she wishes she could forgive him but she'd never expect any one to forgive her for that behavior so he just needs to go. 2 seconds in H says he loves the song and turns it up. 20 seconds in he realizes how on the nose the lyrics are, and turns it down and starts cracking jokes about how he doesn't really like the song, the vocals are nice but the lyrics are crap, I turn it up and say I love it the lyrics are amazing. We go back and forth like that a while laughing our butts off with the girls int he back ear buds in completely ignoring us as teenagers do. I, we, what ever are a hot mess. And about as classless as people can get at this point.
I have read in a LOT of places that the ability to laugh together and find humor in the situation is a very significant predictor of couples who make it. The one thing my coach has said over and over is that Gottman says a strong friendship is the most important ingredient, water the roots of the friendship, it needs to grow strong again before you can take the fruit (romance). My H has joked about it too (came across of list of personal values I was working on and said he didn't need to look at it, his only value was integrity and we both cracked up). Again, from a zen point of view-- be in the moment, laugh when you can. It is good for your body and your mind, even if you're crying in the shower later on. And just keep those reality TV cameras out of your private spaces where you can scream and cry all you want, then look like a boss-- cool, calm, collected, graceful, positive, DGAF-- when you're around him and the cameras are on. Maybe that is a way to help maintain? Imagine there are cameras recording your life story?
Hang in there!
I honestly relish in the fact of them going to these places and doing these things thinking "yeah you had a great time on my planned dates. Hope you enjoyed me all over your entire relationship."
That made me laugh
I love May's advice here to continue being in the moment, laugh when you can, all of that, but also, you know, you're gonna cry in the shower sometimes! You get to experience all of the emotions because you're human. It's hard for me to separate how H might see me through all this (what I
project) versus what's actually going on in my head sometimes (I just cried in the parking lot and now I'm home and happy!). But in your sitch I'm pretty sure that the graceful and funny and strong WF is the most consistent version of WF he's seeing. I mean, that's what the car radio anecdote is all about!
Things have continued to just be weird. Zero mention of moving out since the parent teacher conference. He had some one on one time with D17 while I was out Friday since I went right after work. And then he dropped her by a friend. She wanted me to know she had a good time with him which I thought was sweet. I thought he was asleep when I got home, as soon as I started to doze off he climbed in bed. On Saturday we spent very little time together. He went and hung out with a friend who kinda checked out when the A started. And I had my own GALing going on. But Saturday night with no kids yet again he wanted to cuddle and watch TV sleep in the bed again. Sunday he did a really big practice run. He only has one more really big practice run before he needs to taper down. He asked that I pick up a bunch of recovery stuff for him while I was out and asked if I could get him food to eat like immediate since he was trying to walk off a cramp before heading home and getting in the bath. He must have told me how much he appreciated me like 10 times. I finally said I don't really know what to say to that. You're welcome? Thank you? I said I promised you 4 months ago I'd support you in this like I did last time. Even if we weren't in a great space I meant it. He just kinda looked down and said I know. I just wanted you to know that I do see how much you are supporting me in this.
He's texting a lot, and volunteering a lot of info about where he's going, what he's doing, who he'll be with, when he'll be home. Complimenting the way I look even in front of the kids. This work week he started checking in during the day, and not about dinner or the kids. It's not like it used to be by any means but it's so different from the way it was just a month or 2 ago. Limbo honestly is rough. There is this person in my house who looks like my husband, and every day acts more like my husband, but still I have to treat him like a skittish cat on the days he needs space, or like an annoying roommate on the days I need mine. And I'm constantly thinking about how he could pull the rug out from under me at any moment. Or that he's going to try to just back pedal into this marriage like nothing happened like OW did with her bf. I just would love to be at the point where I can just let my guard down. Where I don't have to constantly watch what I say or do or think or feel. Where I can just be me and don't have to worry if I'm pushing or pursuing or that anything I could've done or said or thought or felt was taken as such. Where I can just exist and the repercussion for that aren't him saying he's looking at apartments or leaving altogether.
IC was weird this week as well. We spoke very briefly about dealing with my anxiety when he vacillates so quickly. And a bit about listening about the break up stuff. But she felt like we're in a pretty neutral space right now and wanted to shift gears to my depression and my mom's passing. It very quickly brought up a lot. And I was crying on and off a lot yesterday. I'm starting to worry that this crisis in my marriage just helped me bury all that mess further instead of moving past it. Which I'm sure that's something that I'll have to address the next time I see her. I'm in a better head space today. But being as raw as I was yesterday was a little surprising and a little worrisome as well.
Hi Wayfarer, wow, it's great you were able to be supportive of your H through his race and he appreciated it--while at the same time grappling with your feelings over the AP, your depression, and your mom's passing--while holding onto that he can't just backpedal into your relationship. You're one of the people here whose emotional resilience impresses me. Anyway, I'm happy for your progress to at least "neutral".
WF,
OMG girl.. I'm was cracking up at your song on the radio experience. It is a really good sign that you both can laugh (especially about that topic) together. I think it would have been an awkward immediate changing of the station had it been me in your position. Although, before the full blown affair BD, ww loved to hear me sing this karaoke song about infidelity - which looking back at is really messed up lol. It seems like you both are moving to a better place. H is obviously still having good days and bad days emotionally, but it seems a bit calmer. Do you think maybe you are trying to push things along so you know how it will end? Maybe letting go of some unknown expectations you are carrying would help. You're doing so amazing keeping yourself grounded and graceful (at least in front of H). I'm really happy to see how far he has come since just a few short months ago. Hang in there.
KG
There is this person in my house who looks like my husband, and every day acts more like my husband, but still I have to treat him like a skittish cat on the days he needs space, or like an annoying roommate on the days I need mine. And I'm constantly thinking about how he could pull the rug out from under me at any moment. Or that he's going to try to just back pedal into this marriage like nothing happened like OW did with her bf.
WF, things do appear to be calming a bit. I'm glad your H could acknowledge your support. You're doing so well. It's the constantly thinking that you can work on controlling, right? Both of those scenarios are in the unknown future, and they don't need your energy. (Easier said than done, yes, because I struggle with this too, so of course I am typing it out here!) Just person-who-looks-like-H/cat/roommate, hour by hour, day by day. In the present.
I just would love to be at the point where I can just let my guard down. Where I don't have to constantly watch what I say or do or think or feel. Where I can just be me and don't have to worry if I'm pushing or pursuing or that anything I could've done or said or thought or felt was taken as such. Where I can just exist and the repercussion for that aren't him saying he's looking at apartments or leaving altogether.
This is the dream! And then I feel like the part of me that aspires toward a more zen-like attitude would say, you can just exist, you can get to this place, even if it is only fleeting, only for a few minutes sometimes, you can get there, you have been there, you are there, etc. Am I just talking nonsense right now? Suddenly it feels like it. Hang in there, WF!
All sounds really positive, IMO. It very well may be that you have not processed some of the feelings you have about your mom and other things because of the trauma of the sitch with your H... and I wouldn't say that is worrisome, it is totally normal and to be expected. And maybe a sign that you can unclench just a bit inside and start to let some of those feelings out... I think it is a good thing, esp with a good IC to support you. It won't be easy but then what of this is?
I feel like the time on my own with H traveling is so helpful because I do have that space to just be myself (though I'm mostly just being myself with my H now too, because, well, F it... but TBH I'm sure I'm more capable of handling and being the calm collected version of myself because I have that outlet. Any way you can carve out time for yourself where you aren't necessarily out GALing with friends or whatever but just relaxing on your own and just BEING without worries about how it appears or doesn't appear?
IC was weird this week as well. We spoke very briefly about dealing with my anxiety when he vacillates so quickly. And a bit about listening about the break up stuff. But she felt like we're in a pretty neutral space right now and wanted to shift gears to my depression and my mom's passing. It very quickly brought up a lot. And I was crying on and off a lot yesterday. I'm starting to worry that this crisis in my marriage just helped me bury all that mess further instead of moving past it. Which I'm sure that's something that I'll have to address the next time I see her. I'm in a better head space today. But being as raw as I was yesterday was a little surprising and a little worrisome as well.
Put yourself first. Take care of yourself. That is in your control and you will be the one to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
It’s always better for emotions and issues to come out as a surprise than not coming out at all.
*hugs
Do you think maybe you are trying to push things along so you know how it will end? Maybe letting go of some unknown expectations you are carrying would help. You're doing so amazing keeping yourself grounded and graceful (at least in front of H). I'm really happy to see how far he has come since just a few short months ago. Hang in there.
I'm trying my hardest not to push. I'm trying to let him take the lead on everything. I just take my space when I need it. And when it feels like he needs space I give it to him. I don't initiate R talks. I don't initiate sex. I don't ask him to come to bed. I don't ask anything of him really. I just kind of exist in our space and try to be as much of myself as I can. I try to catch what he throws and throw it back to the best of my ability. I do realize I said pull the rug out from under me, but I don't mean that in the sense of me feeling like he's all in and then he'll take it away. More like he's being human, and kind, and thoughtful again. He's communicating and being my friend. My fear with the rug being pulled out from under me is that I'll wake up one day and he'll just be a stranger again. The affair never bothered me as much a people think it should. Him stealing my sense of security in our lives, and taking away my best friend is what killed me. I don't want to be blindsided like that again. Most of my expectations are out the damn window because that move out date is fluid now. So when I say limbo sukks, it does, because I, the control freak, have zero ability to mentally prepare myself for any thing so expectations aren't really a thing. It's all just trying to deal with the anxiety of I have no idea where any of this is going.
It's the constantly thinking that you can work on controlling, right? Both of those scenarios are in the unknown future, and they don't need your energy. (Easier said than done, yes, because I struggle with this too, so of course I am typing it out here!) Just person-who-looks-like-H/cat/roommate, hour by hour, day by day. In the present.
...I feel like the part of me that aspires toward a more zen-like attitude would say, you can just exist, you can get to this place, even if it is only fleeting, only for a few minutes sometimes, you can get there, you have been there, you are there, etc.
The trying to predict the future is very much me trying to get control where there's none to be had. And striving to just be in the moment is what I'm trying my hardest to do. It was a point of contention in the MR that I was always trying to navigate life 10 steps ahead and it often distracted me from being in the moment. I know this is something I need to work on for personal growth, period.
All sounds really positive, IMO. It very well may be that you have not processed some of the feelings you have about your mom and other things because of the trauma of the sitch with your H... and I wouldn't say that is worrisome, it is totally normal and to be expected. And maybe a sign that you can unclench just a bit inside and start to let some of those feelings out... I think it is a good thing, esp with a good IC to support you. It won't be easy but then what of this is?
My bff brought this up basically saying maybe I couldn't control my tears because for the first time in a long time I was able to cry about something that wasn't this marriage falling apart. The wall came down the the flood gates opened. I find it worrisome because it makes me feel like all the progress I've made with my depression is fake. I guess that's the best way I could put it. Like all of it was a bandaid and it's not going to stick because I never really dug down and did the real work.
I feel like the time on my own with H traveling is so helpful because I do have that space to just be myself (though I'm mostly just being myself with my H now too, because, well, F it... but TBH I'm sure I'm more capable of handling and being the calm collected version of myself because I have that outlet. Any way you can carve out time for yourself where you aren't necessarily out GALing with friends or whatever but just relaxing on your own and just BEING without worries about how it appears or doesn't appear?
I have a very, very difficult time with this. Since OW is out of the picture, and the marathon is creeping up H is home ALL THE TIME. And home was my safe space. Because I anticipated him only really being there a few nights a week and I knew how long I'd have to be on my own. I've been encouraging him to reconnect with friends that checked out during the A. Partially because he needs the friendship, partially because he needs to make amends, and partially because I want him gone...lol. We have terrible weather this time of year, so I can't like go out and hike or something. If it isn't snowing and windy, it's blistering cold and windy, or as it's been more lately rainy, cold and windy. I've been retreating to the MBR a lot lately to just read during the week. But that doesn't stop H from coming in and talking to me, or D17 from plopping down and doing her homework next to me. Or D16 from plopping down and watching her weird teen dramas on her phone next to me. Or my favorite all of them. So super long story, not short, no I can't escape these people for me time, unless I'm at the gym or in the shower Sun-Thurs. Weekends I can find a little more space. But not much.
Put yourself first. Take care of yourself. That is in your control and you will be the one to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
It’s always better for emotions and issues to come out as a surprise than not coming out at all.
*hugs
Thank you wooba. I know these are things I need to deal with, I just wasn't prepared to be adding insult to injury as it were. But a better me is a better me, even in it's painful to get there.
I wish I could meet your BFF
On the maybe not fully dealing with the issues and thinking you had... that is hard. I totally get it. But if it is the case it also... just *is*, right? It is what it is, nothing you can do about the past. If that is the case then you'll deal with it just like you're dealing with everything else. Like a boss.
On carving out time for yourself... I don't know if this is the case where you live but in a lot of places hotels rooms are super cheap right now, even super swanky ones. Can you do something like that this week?
I wish I could meet your BFF
On carving out time for yourself... I don't know if this is the case where you live but in a lot of places hotels rooms are super cheap right now, even super swanky ones. Can you do something like that this week?
I wish you could too may you guys would get along swimmingly I think.
And with the panic now spreading through the Midwest I don't see alone time happening anytime soon. Cheap hotel or not. I in fact see myself being locked up in a small space with H coming up very quickly. We had very few confirmed cases in our state, but as I work in government and work closely with non-profits I'm finding out there are a ton of people being quarantined in the last few days. My kids' schools sent out emails stating that if even 1 kid gets quarantined they are switching over to online classes and the schools are closing until TBD. My work has sent out several emails and instituted temporary work from home and "sick time" borrowing policies. All business travel is cancelled. All external meeting are to be done by teleconference or Skype. Internal meetings with external partners or vendors are to be done with the external people via teleconference or Skype. A person at H's work was quarantined. That person only travels within the state so things are starting to get a lil dicey here. I do have to say though it is nice to have something else to panic about....lol
The kids are going by the other families while we're still going to let them this weekend so I think the next few weeks in general are going to be interesting for us. Honestly I have a feeling it's going to be interesting for a lot of folks on here.I'll probably be pretty absent on here after today as I now have to be the prepper I never wanted to be because very soon even if we don't get quarantined I may very well have 2 teens home all day every day for god only knows how long. Oh PS they cycle at the same time too and that should be coming up in a week or so here, so that's fun..... God help me.
The wine will definitely help. We are totally stocked up as well and ready for a lot of home time. Scary.
Time to get into a new TV series or something? TV is sometimes better than reading because people are less likely to just plop down and start talking to you if you're watching a show vs. reading a book... in my house at least.
I’m really wishing I knew how to knit right about now. It’s too rainy here to work outside this weekend. We have cases in our county, so everything is closing, and I’m guessing the place I work might close next week, since no one’s shopping. I’ll probably be home without pay...all of this virus stuff seemed slightly surreal against the backdrop of my weird roommate situation with H, and now it seems very real and we haven’t even said anything about it to each other yet, which... I think is making me sort of mad! The world is ending! (Okay, not really, but this an unprecedented situation we find ourselves in.)
Can we all have a movie marathon? Good luck with the synced cycles, wayfarer!
The kids are going by the other families while we're still going to let them this weekend so I think the next few weeks in general are going to be interesting for us. Honestly I have a feeling it's going to be interesting for a lot of folks on here.I'll probably be pretty absent on here after today as I now have to be the prepper I never wanted to be because very soon even if we don't get quarantined I may very well have 2 teens home all day every day for god only knows how long. Oh PS they cycle at the same time too and that should be coming up in a week or so here, so that's fun..... God help me.
This is hilarious. Good luck. Toilet paper is a hot commodity right now. People are stocking up so much that only the expensive stuff is left. As an anxious prepper...rice, beans, rubbing alcohol, vinegar, can go a long way.
May be a good time to get another streaming service, or kindle unlimited!
On a serious note, I'm sure tensions are still high and itll be uncomfortable at times. When you wrote about everyone coming to you when you're reading, do you enjoy that or does it bother you on some level? If it bothers you, it could be a needed boundary, allowing you needed alone time. If you like it and are joking about it, enjoy. Personally, I love togetherness, even when youre focusing on different things.
Thinking of you-- how's it going?
May,
Things are weird. As weird as I anticipated them to be. H is super engaged & around. Helping me prep like the pyscho that I’ve become. So helpful. So involved with the family. The sex is insane and constant. I asked a friend who is working on her masters in psychology if hysterical bonding can be done by the betrayer. Because it’s getting that ridiculous. He sleep sleeps with me intermittently. Still super careful around the girls. If they are checked out for the night before we are he’s in bed with me. Otherwise on the couch. But he’s still supposedly still prepping to leave. I have no idea what’s going on. Like everything else right now I’m just rolling with it. Because there is no book or real guidance I can find for what ever the h3ll this is. Even my IC is like “ lay boundaries where you need them you gotta let it play out to see what happens.” It’s a mess and it sounds like we’re living like this for at least another month. So so be it. The girls are so happy to have him engaged and here. That’s what matters most to me.
hysterical bonding....ha I feel it on my end. If my H didn't come into contact with someone from high risk loc recently I probably would have asked him to move back or stay with me for one night. DB probably wasn't written for M crisis in a time of a coronavirus pandemic. lol.
. DB probably wasn't written for M crisis in a time of a coronavirus pandemic. lol.
lol this is so true! I don’t know how the heck to deal with my WAH during this time! I can’t ask for help here as this is unchartered territory!
WF, your H behaviour is so bizarre and erratic! You must feel like you are going mad. Why do you believe he is still leaving? Is it because he’s said it again, or b3cause he hasn’t said anything to say he isn’t leaving?
Hang in there! I’m thinking we will see a lot of changes in people over the coming weeks as they reflect more on life x
Wooba, this is some kind of dystopian novel that has yet to be written. I’m pretty sure there are no good guides for limbo in a marriage being trapped in the house together.
Pommy, no he hasn’t said he’s leaving. But he hadn’t said he’s staying, or wanting to try. His behavior is confusing but it’s not driving me all that crazy. I take most of with a grain of salt. I’m prepared either way. I do wish he’d just figure his life out but it is what it is.
wayfarer, I’ve been wondering how things were going at your house! Glad you popped in, and glad your H is being part of the family in these crazy times. I wonder if there will be a future updated edition of DR with a chapter on DBing during a pandemic? This is like uncertainty x a million. Hang in there!
So just an update. Nothing hugely spectacular. No huge shift or revelation. Just little things are changing. Which as I'm dealing with all this togetherness I'm realizing I think our path what ever it may be is being sped up. With all the family game time we've been having lately he's hearing stories about things the girls and I have done without him that he had no idea that happened and he gets this weird pained look on his face, but never says much. We are working out as a family. I've made it back on to his social media. Sparingly, no professions of love or "my beautiful wife and I" posts but as I haven't made an appearance since mid-November, and how tied he is to his social media presence it feels like that's important to mention. Yesterday we had a big leap. It's frigid where we live and I decided to grill burgers. He bundled up, grabbed two beers and came and hung out with me outside while I grilled. In the summer that was our week day no kid quiet time. I was so surprised I had to act like I was surprised he was sharing his fancy beer stash with me. He then asked for me to cuddle with him on the couch after the kids ditched us. Apparently they don't appreciate Tiger King the way we do. (btw watch it!!!; soooo good!) He didn't try to get in my pants just snuggled. And asked for a kiss good night when I went to bed as we both had to get up early and the kids were still bumping around face masking and facetiming bfs. I know I'm not supposed to read into any of that. I get that. But all that. Every one of those things are things he hasn't done since September. I didn't realize how far gone he was how fast.
The girls and are doing ok with being home all the time. But as we live in a midsized metro area in the city proper our girls are in two separate schools with two different schedule for virtual learning and two different spring breaks. H and I both are working. I am work from home. No job elimination on the horizon. His job didn't eliminate just shifted people to other sites and eliminated all their contract workers. He's exactly as he was in the same place. Just no over time for the foreseeable future. I start my masters program in a month so I'm super excited for that. I miss my friends but we've been doing facetime happy hours or snapchat group happy hours. I hope every one is doing well and staying healthy. I miss chatting with you guys on here too!!
WF, sounds like things are going ok for you guys right now. No erratic behaviours from H? I m really pleased that in these trying times, you have some kind of “normal” relationship. You sound like you’ve got the right balance with breathing space whilst being confined to the same space. Onwards and upwards for you Lady!! X
All sounding positive, WF, and you sound great. I definitely miss the more regular connection with you and others on here too... hard with everyone home all the time! xx
Things in quarantine are interesting. Since it's looks like like this is our life for the next month or more keeping my mouth shut has been exponentially difficult because I desperately just want to say, "What are we doing here, buddy?" But I'm trying to do my best to just keep my mouth shut and let him lead this since I was always the one to lead everything. I realize at a certain point here I may have to break my resolve on that. H said something to the effect of he's glad he had saved that money to move out so now he can spend some on home gym equipment and have a buffer in savings given overtime being completely eliminated for him. And then mentioned that he might dip into some vacation time if need be to keep his checks at 40 hours if it gets that bad, or in the next few months on the check our rent is due so there's wiggle room and "we" don't have to rely solely on me that pay period. His words not mine. Like a million things were swirling in my head like, ok so are you not moving out because of covid or are you just not moving out any more? Because you'd still need a security deposit if you left. Who is this we? Like us as a household that's trapped together or like our actual family? The vague allusions are honestly what's driving me crazy right now. So I run. And I run. And I run some more and then do yoga. And then drink heavily. But that has to do with the teenage girls being locked in together, in congress with my H's complete and total inability to just say wtf he's actually thinking, ever.
I'm still grateful for this gift of time. And this gift of my family being in one piece for at least a couple more months. I think no matter what I've gotten my wish. Him not leaving at least until June. And the repairing of his relationship with the girls. So that's encouraging. I'm hoping though we can figure out what direction we're going in by then. I love this man. And I want to keep my family in tact, but I don't know that I can stay wondering what is going through his head through 2020. I just don't see myself being ok with waiting him out past a year. But I've had an excessive amount of time to sit and obsess like all of us I suppose. So who knows what I'll do when we actually get there. One day at a time.
I’m still grateful for this gift of time. And this gift of my family being in one piece for at least a couple more months. I think no matter what I've gotten my wish. Him not leaving at least until June. And the repairing of his relationship with the girls. So that's encouraging. I'm hoping though we can figure out what direction we're going in by then. I love this man. And I want to keep my family in tact, but I don't know that I can stay wondering what is going through his head through 2020. I just don't see myself being ok with waiting him out past a year. But I've had an excessive amount of time to sit and obsess like all of us I suppose. So who knows what I'll do when we actually get there. One day at a time.
Exactly. One day at a time! If anything, this pandemic has really shown us that anything can happen. Life goes about one way and then in the most unexpected way something changes its direction. Take the good parts of life while they present themselves for now. There are more pressing things to worry about right now than trying to figure out that mushed up brain of your H’s. Lol.
Thinking about you!
Hi Wayfarer,
OMFG this is so crazy, isn't it?
I know what you mean about the girls. I've been thinking back to how I first started all of this and my primary motivation to stand for the M was to protect the kids and give them mom and dad in the same house. Now that we have that sometimes part of me wonders what happens if we never work through this and he's never really ready to face the depth of his own actions and why he did what he did.... will that be enough for me? Would I really leave him then and be the one to do that to the kids? UGH.
I like to come read your posts because you are so level headed on this stuff, you are somehow always able to see what is going on and take it for what it is, nothing more, nothing less-- and let go of all that is out of your control. It is really inspiring.
I'm glad you're running... not me, we are constantly eating and boozing it up and I've gained like 5 lbs so far this quarantine. I really need to figure out how to stay more active. We went for a hike today, so that was good. (And then came home and H made this super cheesy baked pasta dish and we snarfed it all down with some special beers and then a flourless chocolate cake my daughter and I made over the weekend... yeah. not very helpful.)
I desperately just want to say, "What are we doing here, buddy?" But I'm trying to do my best to just keep my mouth shut and let him lead this since I was always the one to lead everything. I realize at a certain point here I may have to break my resolve on that.
What is stopping you from having that conversation? The regular DB rules of avoiding R talks at all cost? Afraid what you might hear? Feeling that it might be interpreted as pressure by him? I'm so curious... I feel totally unable to curb my desire to ask him all my questions (and then when I do he gets all upset and flippy, so it at least so far has always totally backfired.) I mean... if you can handle not asking it is probably for the best (and if you can try to remain detached and not really caring what he is doing, all the better). But you also don't want to squish down too much of your own needs/wants/desires for too long... I think that isn't healthy in the long run. I feel like all this time together in quarantine adds a certain amount of pressure to everything, because you don't have the outlets of GALing or being on your own.
I'm glad you're doing well. I do wish we could have a zoom call and virtually dissect our sitches over a glass of wine or three. xx M
Hey my dear May,
All of this is crazy on so many levels. I feel for every single person on here trapped in, in limbo. Because what's going on wasn't crazy enough all of us decided it would be great to add a level of anxiety...lol or well our S's did.
I know what you mean about the girls. I've been thinking back to how I first started all of this and my primary motivation to stand for the M was to protect the kids and give them mom and dad in the same house. Now that we have that sometimes part of me wonders what happens if we never work through this and he's never really ready to face the depth of his own actions and why he did what he did.... will that be enough for me? Would I really leave him then and be the one to do that to the kids? UGH.
My situation with our two little families becoming one made me less want to stick this out for them than probably the way you have. Although we are the only real stability they've ever known, they are older, and as much as it might rock their world, my bigger concern was with him being around to work on his relationship with them. If the OW thing had lasted and he started this whole brand new life for himself he would've lost both girls and it would've taken years upon years to repair that bridge. He destroyed their faith in him. He destroyed their faith in good men existing. He stole their security the way he stole mine. There is a lot of anger still bubbling under the surface for both of them. And while I know I'm a control freak and it's not my job to help him mend these relationship, he still doesn't fully understand the depth of the damage he's done with both of them. I had and still have a front row seat to it. They are very open about it with me. If I wasn't here to diffuse and to help usher the new memories and rebuilding the bonds since we're on top of each other I don't know that it would've happened in this decade. And I'm not being facetious. If he can't get his sh!t together and still fence sitting by Fall I'm out with no regrets. At least from my perspective now. He's jerked them around so much with the moving out, not moving out, and where his heart lies I don't know that the girls would fault me. They get incredibly annoyed when he openly flirts with or flatters me. I'm not going to be treated as if I'm not enough ad infinitum. I may never love any one the way I love who he used to be, but at some point here I'm going to have to just love me more.
I like to come read your posts because you are so level headed on this stuff, you are somehow always able to see what is going on and take it for what it is, nothing more, nothing less-- and let go of all that is out of your control. It is really inspiring.
I wouldn't want any one to find it too inspiring. I attribute my ability as a 36 year old to roll with the punches to my sh!tty childhood and years attempting to raise a child with an addict tbh. I'm built for misery. I'm built for people who don't know how to love in a way that isn't self serving. I'm built for forgiveness. I'm built to shift from relying on someone to relying on only me very quickly. I'm built to ignore the bad and accept the good. But I wouldn't wish the way I am on any one. Because all that comes with negatives too. Bouts of depression. Anger issues. Control issues. Being trained to internalizing literally all of that and becoming a mental health time bomb. Having toxic people be attracted to you like a magnet because they can smell the trauma on you, romantically, in working relationships, in friendships. My level headed-ness in crisis comes with a price I wouldn't want any one else to pay.
I'm glad you're running... not me, we are constantly eating and boozing it up and I've gained like 5 lbs so far this quarantine. I really need to figure out how to stay more active. We went for a hike today, so that was good. (And then came home and H made this super cheesy baked pasta dish and we snarfed it all down with some special beers and then a flourless chocolate cake my daughter and I made over the weekend... yeah. not very helpful.)
Well I'm no size 2 as it is. And the running is far more about me not ending up on Snapped than caring sincerely about my weight or physical health right now. We try to eat local take out only on the weekends to help support the small places we like. Which is usually garbage food..lol. But I broke down last night and let them order Pizza Hut. I haven't eaten that in almost 10 years. My stomach was sure to remind me that we don't eat like that any more. And I'm drinking like a fish. Granted I live in a state in the Midwest where we're famous for our drinking. But being locked in it's way more than normal. So you are not alone my friend.
What is stopping you from having that conversation? The regular DB rules of avoiding R talks at all cost? Afraid what you might hear? Feeling that it might be interpreted as pressure by him? I'm so curious... I feel totally unable to curb my desire to ask him all my questions (and then when I do he gets all upset and flippy, so it at least so far has always totally backfired.) I mean... if you can handle not asking it is probably for the best (and if you can try to remain detached and not really caring what he is doing, all the better). But you also don't want to squish down too much of your own needs/wants/desires for too long... I think that isn't healthy in the long run. I feel like all this time together in quarantine adds a certain amount of pressure to everything, because you don't have the outlets of GALing or being on your own.
So there's a few layers to me just leaving alone the questions about the AP and about us right now. He's still not fully himself. I've been watching him slowly grow back into the person he used to be. Every day he's a little more the person I used to know, but he's still not that original we've talked about, he's still that photocopy. He's like a really nice laser color copy but on regular paper not photo paper...lol. I don't know if I'm going to get a truthful answer to any of my questions. I have no desire to have a fruitless conversation with a person who isn't invested in me enough to be completely transparent. I also have no desire to be vulnerable around him until I know he's invested in trying. He's already got my body, and my my mind. He isn't getting my heart back until he gives me a reason to trust him with even a little bit of it. If he chooses to leave I'll ask my AP questions in the context of the closure he owes me. And he'll give me that. If he chooses to stay I'll ask the AP questions as part of the healing process. It's not eating away at me. As far as the "what are we doing here?" That's staying in his court until I have a reason to push the issue. Like him still being here in let's say late July and still sleeping on the couch part time. Because I've repeatedly told him I'm not talking about us. It's effing exhausting. If he wants to talk about it fine I'm all ears. I'll drop what I'm doing. But I'm not investing my time or energy in saying for the millionth effing time "what exactly do you mean when you say there's nothing left in this marriage for you?" And then him having no real way to explain it. And at this point it would be "Ok, so there's nothing left in this marriage for you if we just put aside the whole I'm amazing in bed thing, and I'm your best friend thing? Yup definitely nothing left in this marriage for you. You're right." I don't want to be that guy right now. I'm in a pretty angry place. I had a bunch of guys slip into my DMs lately and it's getting harder and harder to just ignore it and not chase the attention that I'm not getting from my husband who unlike random internet dudes does not tell me I'm beautiful or funny. (granted chasing that kind of attention usually comes with unsolicited d*ck pics so that's also helping me stay away from it...lol) I know that angry place is leading me to feeling really vindictive right now. Because I feel like even if I entertained a single one of those messages, or h3ll, half of them, it still wouldn't be half as bad as what he's done here. I can't be in that place emotionally if I want to have a serious R talk. I will say a bunch of really mean things that I may or may not mean. My grandma has told me repeatedly in my adulthood that my mouth will be the demise of any relationship with a man....lol. The way I'm feeling about everything right now she would likely be right. The last part of it is that my bff's H told me, well before reading DR that all this mess probably started as control thing. That being with an A type woman is a really difficult thing for even the most enlightened of dudes and when they feel like they have no sense of power in the relationship they tend to act out. Not always in a cheating way, this is just the way my H went with it. That some of the root of these things is a power grab. And if I want there to be balance in the relationship I need to relinquish all control. Stop pushing and pursuing I take all the power back by being the one who appears to care the least. So I'm caring less. I'm not asking a thing, or starting a single R talk. And I'll continue to do so until it doesn't serve me any more. I'm still comfortable with him leaving as much as I am with him choosing to stay. So it'll be what it is, in it's own time.
I'm glad you're doing well. I do wish we could have a zoom call and virtually dissect our sitches over a glass of wine or three. xx M
Oh May you hit this on the head with that glass of wine or 3. I think these days it's definitely more the latter...lol xoxo
Just dropping by to say that I love reading your words. There's a lot of power and a lot of self awareness. I think through it all the hardest thing for me is to keep examining within myself and be true to myself. I love your no BS attitude in general. lol!!
He's still not fully himself. I've been watching him slowly grow back into the person he used to be. Every day he's a little more the person I used to know, but he's still not that original we've talked about, he's still that photocopy. He's like a really nice laser color copy but on regular paper not photo paper...lol. I don't know if I'm going to get a truthful answer to any of my questions. I have no desire to have a fruitless conversation with a person who isn't invested in me enough to be completely transparent.
Wayfarer, just want to say I also appreciate reading your insights. I read this post the other day and the notion of an H being a "photocopy" of themselves is a good analogy. I feel the same way - my H is a little more similar to the man he used to be but still not himself. I just find myself struggling with the why; why has he changed, why has he had to paint me as such the villain.
Anyway, I just wanted to say I enjoy your posts and agree with May, you are level headed and it makes me feel better to read your reflections on your sitch. Thanks for posting!
I just try to update weekly to kinda to purge and kinda to let my supports here know I'm keeping my eye on them as much as they are keeping an eye on me. Nothing much has changed. Other than a big blow up with D16 and her wonderful bio mom things have been very calm, quiet and well very status quo. The only thing that has changed is that he's now acknowledging and going out of his way to say hello to my friends on social media and irl. We're from the midwest it's a thing to say "oh say hey to so and so for me." This is a thing that had stopped entirely when he made the decision that our friends were taking sides. D17 had a chat with me that she's really starting to move past her anger toward him. She's feeling like she's moving toward real forgiveness. She knows he's trying and she appreciates it. I wish it was something I could share with him. I hope I can some time in the near future. I think he'd like to know that. But I won't be opening any can of worms I can keep closed as our state's self quarantine order was just extended 5 more weeks. I anticipate 5 more weeks of status quo. I hope every one is doing well and staying sane.
Glad things are relatively calm, and, wow, that’s great that your D is sharing how she’s feeling about everything and working through her anger. And it seems like a sign of some growth in your H’s part that he’s once again making contact with your friends. It’s good to hear this update, WF. You do sound well and sane.
I feel like this extended status quo is both crazy hard and yet at the same time it is like just one foot in front of the other and before you know it another week has passed.
I'm really glad the girls are doing well and reconnecting with your H. I have been thinking about your girls and mine and their age differences... I think I was selfishly more worried about the time I would lose with them in terms of breaking up the household, and more scared for them about that psychological loss you talked about, losing their trust in men and love and commitment. That terrified me, that this [censored] up thing that was happening between H and me would affect them for their whole lives and maybe make it so they never could really trust a partner. I felt like they believe so deeply that H loves them with every fiber of his being and that will never end... but they also think he feels that same way about me, and if they saw that end, what would that mean for their belief in love? UGH. The fact that your girls are coming around and open to forgiveness makes me just really grateful for the resilience of the human spirit, and less anxious about what may come in the future for me/my girls.
Are you still feeling that anger? Or have you been able to let it go? I definitely believe that the power dynamics are a big, big issue for many couples (me for sure). I feel like we're doing a lot better at that... at least I am for sure, though from H's behavior I think he's let a lot of that go as well. But I'm confident it was at the root of a lot of our issues, maybe still there to deal with. (I'm sure us type-A gals will always have this to deal with, but I've definitely learned a lot about picking my battles and letting stuff go that I would not have a few years ago).
Five more weeks? Dang, girl... you have your work cut out for you. What is after Tiger King??? We've been watching Insecure on HBO but just got to the fourth season and were (sadly) surprised to realize now that we are caught up we can only watch one episode per week!
xx M
Hey May,
I know you tend to see things like this for your girls a little more holistically than a lot of people around here so don't take this as preaching, because you don't need it, but I thought I'd share some of my thoughts on how these things effect the kids. As a step child, a step mother, the mother of a step child, the friend of many many divorced kids, and a couple of divorced friends. I always hope people try for the kids sake, not stay together for them. Children of the 70s, 80s, and early 90s have a very different view of divorce because I think things were treated just so differently back then. And to be honest based on some of the crazy pants behavior I see around here with some of these WS/WAS their divorces are probably not going to be that much different with the big exception of the communication between themselves and their kids. The way we raise children these days is just so different. People don't really leave kids in the dark until the second dad walks out and never comes back or mom is loading them up in the car. Kids are so much more attune to the fact that their parents are real people with feelings and faults. I think in the world we live where parents are so much more cognizant of how these things tend to have a ripple effect throughout the kids lives has changed the amount of damage and frankly the kind of damage. Have faith that this won't irreparable damage them. No matter how it ends. They'll won't lose faith in love or partners being able to be stable, faithful, and true. And neither will we. No matter how this ends.
I'm not angry any more. I've moved into yet another phase of sadness. The anger was really rooted in the time biding he's doing. The fact that he gets what feels like an infinite amount of time to decide where his heart lies. While I lie in wait with infinite patience on an answer from a person who doesn't know if they can love me. It's incredibly infuriating to essentially be told you might not be enough every day. The sadness now is me knowing that in the end if he can't commit our stalemate is going to end by me asking him to leave. And knowing there's no going back after that. Because I've been waiting him out for 6 months, and I won't wait him out more than a year. And it kills knowing that there's a way this ends where I tried everything I could but he tried nothing because he spent 7 years of our lives telling me I was the love of his life but I was really just the consolation prize the entire time. There's a way that this ends where 7 years of life my life was a complete lie. That I missed my opportunity to have the second baby that I always wanted. That I might be so damaged by this and the relationship with my daughter's father that I may never date again. But when you read the stages of the LBS it feels pretty normal that we cycle through these feelings over and over again until we don't. And I'm confident that I'll get through it regardless of how this all ends.
Yeah we're running out of things to do and watch, but I have Jane the Virgin and Handmaid's Tale to dig through. But as a family we've been doing collections. We watched Deadpool and Deadpool 2 back to back. Then we moved on to the MCU. We're still playing through that. We have plenty of other collections we can start after that. We throw in games nights to keep us off the TV constantly. I'm pushing for puzzles now too. How are you guys holding up on staying entertained and not killing each other?
Kids are so much more attune to the fact that their parents are real people with feelings and faults. I think in the world we live where parents are so much more cognizant of how these things tend to have a ripple effect throughout the kids lives has changed the amount of damage and frankly the kind of damage. Have faith that this won't irreparable damage them. No matter how it ends. They'll won't lose faith in love or partners being able to be stable, faithful, and true. And neither will we. No matter how this ends.
I totally second this. My kids are young so my biggest fear in the beginning was that they were gonna go through some kind of emotional turmoil with parents who are no longer in a loving M. but so far they are handling it extremely well. I'm sure they are affected but it's not nearly as bad as I imagined.
But when you read the stages of the LBS it feels pretty normal that we cycle through these feelings over and over again until we don't. And I'm confident that I'll get through it regardless of how this all ends.
This is spot on, wayfarer. I am sorry to hear that you are feeling sad...but you recognize that this is a cycle, and I think that self-awareness is the key to which will eventually help us LBS to reach the end of it. *hugs
Hi WF,
Thanks for the dose of reality... I know I have somewhat of a fairy-tale ideal in my head of what this should have all looked like, and now that my H has broken that, I'm kind of floundering with still trying to figure out what things are supposed to look like now, if it is possible to rebuild, etc. I have held so strongly onto this idea that it is possible to have a better, stronger M on the other side and now I'm dealing with some doubts. I think I just need to keep reminding myself to let go of expectations, focus on myself and my kids, today and tomorrow and just one foot in front of the other.
I think part of it is I have very little experience with D. My parents are still married, all my friends growing up's parents are still married, same with H. All our friends where we lived previously are married. When we moved back to where we live now (we'd moved away a couple of years after we got married, before kids), we had a handful of friends get Ded, two with kids and one without, and I was totally blindsided. And their sitches are not what I would want for myself, even though they all seem relatively happy.
I was just so focused on protecting the kids. And they still have no clue about any of it. Maybe they never will. And since that was my number one goal-- if I could just keep them from being hurt, I could handle anything-- I feel like I should be happier now than I am. Anyway. I think this quarantine is starting to get to me. But your words really help, remind me that humans are strong and resilient and just because things aren't turning out the cookie-cutter way I thought they would doesn't mean we still don't have the capacity to be happy and love and trust and all the rest. I need to keep reminding myself of that.
The sadness now is me knowing that in the end if he can't commit our stalemate is going to end by me asking him to leave. And knowing there's no going back after that. Because I've been waiting him out for 6 months, and I won't wait him out more than a year. And it kills knowing that there's a way this ends where I tried everything I could but he tried nothing because he spent 7 years of our lives telling me I was the love of his life but I was really just the consolation prize the entire time. There's a way that this ends where 7 years of life my life was a complete lie.
I'm glad you aren't angry any more... but I get the sadness. I totally, totally do. Let me give you a little pep talk, though... first, think how much has changed in the six months you've already waited. So much is possible in the next six months, especially for you, with such incredible self-control and self-knowledge. Even though yes, there is a possibility that in six more months you might be asking him to leave, there is also the possibility that you'll be reinvesting in your M together. A lot can happen in six months. You just gotta keep holding the line and being kind to yourself.
Also? Do NOT let him take the seven years of your M away from you. That is BS. It wasn't a lie. You could NEVER be anyone's consolation prize. You are the prize and he is incredibly lucky that you're still there... he's just a confused and sorry soul who is going through his own problems and that is coloring his view of your R and the past now. Don't let his problems be your problems.
How are you guys holding up on staying entertained and not killing each other?
Well, this past weekend I think we all got a bit stir crazy and snippy towards each other, even the girls. We really needed to get out of the house and went on a long hike on Sunday, which really helped. H and I also made up an imaginary roommate, Cheryl, who we blame everything on (GD Cheryl, left dirty dishes in the sink again) which is silly but actually really helps lighten the mood. We're watching the full set of Avengers movies, most of which we'd never seen, which is fun-- we've watched a movie as a family every night. We did puzzles the first few weeks but I haven't gotten one out for awhile... might do it again soon. Board games, kids doing a lot of reading, cooking, baking. Oh, and cocktails. We are definitely doing a lot of that too.
Update: Shortly after the blow up with D16's bio mom, (I should have been clear before, the blow up was between bio mom and H/me/us over D16 going there during this mess) D16 choose to leave and go stay with her mom now that her mom finally has an apartment. It's been difficult because since early February. Bio mom has been leveraging H's infidelity as fuel to create a feud between D16 and H. (D16 spilled the beans in January) H's A had a huge ripple effect in our lives, and he's only very recently grappling with how large that ripple actually was and is trying (in his way, and trust me I'd really like to see it be more in the way of the people he needs to make amends with, but baby steps I guess) to make things right with the people that ripple has touched.
D16 came to us full time a year ago (we previously had 50/50) because bio mom put D16 in a horribly unsafe situation that resulted in restraining orders and charges being filed against a person H and I never even laid eyes on. It took months to get D16 just to commit to seeing her mother for an 8-12 hour visit. She was still only seeing bio mom every other weekend until early February. The day before she left for bio mom's she got into a huge fight with H over her virtual learning. H could've handled his temper better. D16 could've probably not doubled down on lying to the person with emails from teachers laying out missing work. The next day when she left D16 tried to say she just wasn't with her mom the entire last year because of the living situation. I called her out on that. And told her making the wrong choices for the wrong reasons doesn't work out well for any one, and she had a front row seat to that. She left any way.
H was hurt, sad, angry. And now has resigned to the fact that we have to just wait until bio mom does something bigger or more ridiculous or drop the BFF act for D16 to think about coming back. I, however, am absolutely livid that a weekend mom who's barely a mom at all is leveraging my pain for financial gain, for bonding with her daughter, and to spite her ex. Everything that I've had to endure through out this wasn't up for grabs. I just can't wrap my head around people who think they own my pain because they know about my pain. This woman who spent years trying to stop me from even being a normal kind person to her daughter is using one of the worst times in my life to boost herself up in D16's eyes. That just feels sick to me. I didn't know there was another person I could be as mad at as H or OW over this. But it is what it is. I have no control over D16 or her mom, no matter how clearly manipulative I can see the situation is. So I'm doing my best to let go and let god on this one.
Thing with H are still fairly status quo. We took a quarantine road trip H, myself and D17 to the major metropolitan area closest too us. Drove in, drove around, walked around one of the desolate areas just for a little while masked and gloved, got some carry out we can't get here, and drove immediately back no need to stop for gas or anything other than that. I know it's not super wise, but other than the guy who brought our food out to the car we were near no one. What was shocking was it was H's idea. It killed to not hold his hand in the car. But everything else about it felt so freaking normal, just like the way things used to be. We talked and talked. We laughed. We just had a good time. It's been so long since I was in his car with him for that long. It's been so long since I was in the car with him and the silence wasn't deafening and the tension palpable. Our road trips were a huge part of our relationship in the past and I didn't even know it was something I had missed until I had it back, even briefly. H said "hey next time we come this way I should take you to blah, blah, blah, you know that place in the movie we watched." It was a movie we watched last summer, before all of this ever even started. For just a split second, in that moment, it felt like none of this ever even happened. And then it hit me like a ton of bricks because I couldn't remember the last time he made future plans with me more than a few days out. That I hadn't made plans with my husband to just go do something for the h3ll of it since the first week in November. I hadn't made plans with my husband for some undetermined time in the future in just as long. I know we're not supposed to get hopeful. Can't trust them until they show you 100% they are in. It's safe to say I didn't. I just got pensive. I couldn't stop thinking about how something so tiny like "hey next time we come this way" could put me through so much so fast. I am in a more zen place than I have been. More back to the way I was, ready for him to go, and ready for him to leave. I just need to sit in all the layers of "next time we come this way" a little longer before I can really move past that moment.
***ready for him to go and ready for him to stay.
It was pretty late when I finished that up
Any update on D16?
When I was reading the end of your last post, how you were feeling when he was mentioning plans for the future, it reminded me of similar feelings you were having awhile back before this whole COVID thing happened— I think right around the time he started turning back towards you, and it threw you off your zen detachment for a bit. It seems like every time he leans in it discombobulates you a bit…. but he’s done a lot of leaning and steps toward you over these months and I wonder— just to ask you a question you’ve been asking me— have you taken a step back to see how far you’ve come? What will it take for him to do for you to open back up and drop your guard and stop being surprised when he talks about your future? Not saying there is a right answer. Just wondering what your thoughts are on that.
Hey May,
Things with D16 are always an exercise in patience for every one. I mean that in the kindest terms possible. I love her, but she's watched far too many teen dramas, and has spent far too much time watching her diagnosed bi-polar mother live life and thinks that existing in highs and lows is real way of living. In the past 7 year we've have put up with a lot of ridiculousness most of which was fueled by bio mom, some of which, especially in these more recent years, has been fueled by D16's own attention seeking behaviors and lack of impulse control. We had her stable and happy, until H, well, threw a wrench in everyone's lives. A big part of me wants to tell him, "You know this is your fault, right? You made a hole in the wall or a really big chink in the armor just enough to let bio mom wriggle in and destroy. And here we are, back to this house makes D16 miserable and she feels unloved and unwanted here." The day she left she made an off handed comment to me on how H was affecting her mental health and "she can't live like this any more." I kindly informed her as a person who has been battling depression for well decades at this point that that isn't how any of this works. And she needs to quit her self diagnosis and learn that there is no pill for conflict resolution or negative feelings. She needs coping skills and bouncing from which ever parent she likes the best at the time is not a coping skill. It is in fact pitting already contentious parents against each other. The exact thing she's told me over and over and over again that she hates the most. And that part of the conversation is exactly why I'm not hearing a word from her.
H is getting one word texts and he has to initiate the "conversation." That's in quotes because I've seen some of the exchanges. I wouldn't call that a conversation. He is getting one word answer because before she left he made her empty out her bags to see what she was taking. She got up at 5:30am and packed them we can only assume thinking we wouldn't notice she was leaving. Which she's not a stealthy kid so I have no idea what the thought processes was there. Anyway, after he made her dump her bags he then made her repack them because she tried to clear out her entire wardrobe to take to her mother's. I had heard her bumping around but I didn't realize how quickly she attempted to clear out her whole room. He literally pulled out 1/2 of everything, and D16 was pissed. He said "I'm not playing this game with your mother if you can't see what's happening here, then fine, I'll be the bad guy. Me and Wayfarer bought every single piece of clothing you're packing right now. Every sock, every bra, every pair of pants. If your mom wants you there full time she has the child support card she can spend that on a wardrobe for you over there." TBH as dramatic as it is, and ridiculous, it feels normal because all of this is the drama we're used to in our lives. And it's really a nice break from this A drama. Going forward we will be ignored until D16 and mom get in a fight or until the stimulus money runs out and it's not buying her love fest over there any more.
As far as H leaning back in and my clear aversion to him doing so, lol, I can see how far we've come. I can see that who he is now is not the man I was dealing with when I first came here. He was so angry, and cruel, and cold. And now he's more like the man I fell in love with every day. I can see how we went from strangers to slowly finding out way back to the friends and lovers we used to be. It's unfortunate that lovers came first this time around, but c'est la vie I suppose..lol. But, there are huge hiccups that just won't let me take my walls down. H isn't in IC, and while he's tentatively agreed he doesn't want to start until he can meet that person in person. H never made it through more than one session of DC. H hasn't said he's committed to at least trying. My H didn't choose our life over OW, he got dumped, because she chose the life she built over him. I haven't heard the words I love you since November. And that was ILYB. I've gotten I love your cooking. I love when you *insert sexual act here.* I've gotten "do you need a hug?" But I haven't heard a single "I love you." I haven't heard I miss you or I missed you or I missed this. Except once again "I missed *insert sexual act here* with you." He hasn't flat out said he's not moving out. He just hasn't brought it up. He isn't openly on apartment finder any more. He's paying rent here yet again. So I'm to assume he's here at least until June, could be July, could be forever. I have no idea. I have no idea about anything that's going through his head of real substance. For now I let my walls down in doses. I enjoy the moments in the moment and if it's overwhelming I quietly retreat and deal with it alone. I don't really need him to meet all those markers. But like one or two would be really nice. TBH I don't know that I'll be able to open up fully, let my guard down and not be surprised until he comes out and says he wants to try. That he isn't running any more. That he's still not sure if this marriage is for him but he's willing to find out. Any tiny bit of actual reassurance that I'm not just a friend for the end of the world. That he is using this time to mull things over. I think that's what I'd need to let go enough for it to not hurt and recoil when he leans in.
So I'm here to vent I guess. I have no idea at this point. I find myself in a fight with H by myself. Meaning he doesn't know I'm angry or agitated, which then agitates me more. Last night he came home from work attempting to talk to D16 on the way home to no avail. Hadn't heard from her at all since Sunday. I let him rant a bit about how he's not even going to try pretty soon. He can't fix the manipulation, and if D16 wants him to be the bad guy then fine....typical woe is me things whenever he gets into an interpersonal mix up with people. I tried to calmly let him know the bulk of this is on his ex's shoulders. He shouldn't put his feelings of rejection on D16 even if she's buying in. That bio mom had been pushing this feud since the second she found an opening. H in his infinite wisdom thinks that window was the kids overhearing our fight about money on 2/5. Which thanks to him getting his wheels spinning yesterday and sending me reeling, I had realized I had documented like that entire day on here. That was the same day he admitted he was having an affair to D16 and told her he couldn't wait for D16 to meet her. Immediately after school. Hours before we had taht fight. And that fight was a month or more since D16 knew an affair was happening.
All this came up because in that fight I brought up where the child support money was going during all this time since he couldn't even manage to come up with a few hundred dollars for me for a couple of months. Which I would've never brought up in a million years except just before that fight when D16 told me about H's admission of the OW she also brought up that her and her mom had been watching every transaction on the child support card for months. Bio mom had been watching since the second she handed over the card to us. She pulled up the reports on her phone put me in a position to basically defend every single transaction. And because I could see this was being fueled by her mother, even though H didn't deserve a thing, I defended everything she showed me. Everything. Even the things that I could clearly tell were him spending money on himself or OW. Since he was still paying bills here, I had no personal investment in where he was spending that money. And that money wasn't even child support from bio mom. That money was his money he was still paying in because for a year we had been hearing bio mom is getting an apartment next month and then next month didn't come until April of 2020.
The reason I'm stewing is because he's absolutely convinced that the fight was the catalyst for his manipulative ex to poke holes. When it was never the fight all this was put in motion long before that. And he wouldn't even let me get that out, because he could see I was getting defensive and kept saying I'm not blaming you, I'm just saying. Which I'm sorry that felt like blaming. And it felt like he still can't see that the root cause of all of this is his stupid A. Not that fight. Not the cracks in our relationship. The affair is the catalyst. It always has been. And as much as I want to blame bio mom for manipulating the situation to her advantage. Or D16 for exerting her autonomy over her authoritarian parents in the worst ways possible over the course of the last year. He has just as much blame here and he can't accept it, or see it, or own it and it makes me wonder what the h3ll I'm doing here. We're 10 weeks out from the end of the affair and still, he can only see the A as a tiny little reason behind any of these things as they pop up. Like maybe a little push.
I'm frustrated because I wanted to lay into him yesterday and just accepted that he wasn't blaming me and left the conversation when it was over. And then left the house for a walk. I'm angry that I'm constantly censoring myself so I don't look crazy or bitter. And at this point just to keep the peace for as long as possible since I knew he'd be home all day the next two day. I'm frustrated that I'm constantly the one taking the high road here. I'm pissed that I'm hanging out here in limbo while he gets to weigh and measure my every move and decided if that's something he wants to try for or not, while I sit here knowing I didn't deserve any of the sh!t he put me through and yet I'll stay and wait and be patient because I'm a patently better spouse and at this point human being. I would like to yell that in his face but I don't. I just smile when he walked into the MBR this morning to say good morning. I ask him about his up coming doctor's appointment for a consultation for his endoscopy, since they've rescheduled it again for the 3rd time. I'm clearly losing my zen here. And I don't know to what end. I just hope I can get back to where I was just a few days ago. Because right now I'm so frustrated with this limbo I'm ready to put all his things in garbage bags and say deuces since there is no D16 keeping me from kicking him to the curb any more. But the logical part of me knows that isn't what I want. That isn't how I want this to end. That I need to just stay the course a while long. Let's hope excessive amounts of wine this evening will give me the attitude change I desperately need.
Hi WF,
I TOTALLY TOTALLY TOTALLY get it. I have to say, I'm constantly impressed by the posters here who have so much self control. (Like you.) Sometimes I read the BS that spews out of the mouths of the WSs and the poster is like "I'm sorry you feel that way" all calm and I'm wanting to yell at the a$$holes through the computer. (I'm sure people have felt that way towards my H too.) But even in the depths of everything I have never excelled at the whole remaining calm and not getting into it part. I've definitely improved. But it is a constant challenge for me.
And when I read your post here, I really wonder if this isn't a good time for a little truth bomb... that you've been journaling and yes, that particular day stands out because it was the DAY HE ADMITTED HIS AFFAIR TO HIS DAUGHTER and maybe? just maybe? that might have been a bigger issue than overhearing a single fight between the two of you?
I mean, I'm sure that isn't DBing and all that. But holy $!&#. how long is he going to stick his head in the ostrich hole? As you know my H also doesn't want to truly confront all that damage and I can imagine something similar happening with him. I feel like he's starting to block the whole A out of his mind and his history. I think I posted here that it suddenly occurred to me when talking about a V-day lunch two years ago that we went to WHEN HE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR that when we had that conversation and were talking about specifics of that lunch and that day and that restaurant-- he truly did not remember that when we were there he was in the middle of an affair with another woman. He remembered the restaurant, the conversation, the food.... all that. but not the fact that he was actually f$&*ing someone else at the time. Either that or he is a total psychopath actor. But I know he isn't that good of an actor.
Anyway. The rational, DB-ing part of me says give it some time and space and maybe you'll decide it isn't worth it to challenge him on this, he isn't ready to hear it, or whatever. But perhaps you go through that calculus and decide you know what? He can take a little bit of truth. It's time.
I'm angry that I'm constantly censoring myself so I don't look crazy or bitter. And at this point just to keep the peace for as long as possible since I knew he'd be home all day the next two day. I'm frustrated that I'm constantly the one taking the high road here.
This is something I worry about with you, a little. I just don't think it is healthy for any of us to behave like this long-term. I worry that it will result in feeling resentful towards your H and you have to be able to be yourself and feel like yourself in your own home, especially now. I think it was a good idea to get out for a walk and give yourself some space and time. But I do want you to consider a little middle ground, here-- between swallowing what you think and pasting on a smile, and booting him to the curb, what about calmly suggesting it might be because of his affair? and then dropping it? You could even say you don't want to discuss your R right now with him, but because it involves his D who you both love very much, you feel like you owe it to him to tell him btw, this is what really happened that day. And then leave it at that and let him think on it.
That might not be DBing and of course you are under no obligation to take this advice. Ignore it, if it isn't right for you! But I wanted to suggest it. Because I care about you and I worry that you're internalizing all of this and it isn't going to be healthy for you in the long term. You need SOME release valve. (Plus, he needs a little wake up call.)
xx M
Well May you got your wish.....
H came home from work yesterday exhausted and agitated. H finally got D16 on the phone. His feelings on that conversation were that he's lost his daughter and that she never wants to see him again. After a bit of chat I realized he was being a dramatic as these other two overly emotional monsters that normally live here. But I'll get to that later. He kind of unloaded again like the last time, but this time he was just more sad than angry. He immediately went to lay down after that since he starts work at an ungodly hour on Sundays. I sent him a text when I heard him stirring later, basically saying that I was sorry for everything that was happening between him and D16, but before this gets any more ugly, and even though I just wanted to keep my mouth shut I need to tell him that his theory on how this all got started is wrong. I am not the one to blame. I explained. I did my best to not smash his eff up in his face. I tried to skirt around it as much as I possibly could so he wouldn't get defensive and just be receptive. Then I offered to support him in any way he'd like me to. He responded back via text instead of to my face because honestly I think this is just easy for us when we discuss touchy stuff. The first part was: "I'm sorry for blaming you, I know it wasn't you even if I've kept saying that. I know it's mostly bio mom, a little D16 and a little me."
That did make me feel better. It makes me feel better about a lot. Knowing that he is at least a little cognizant of what's really going on here. Knowing that I can be honest and he doesn't immediately lash out. My bff pointed out that maybe part of my silence, because it is so against my nature, wasn't necessarily all about the 180, or even DBing in general, but that maybe I have a little affair PTSD and I'm actually scared to open my mouth now. After this whole thing, I think she might be on to something. I also learned that H is a big ol' drama queen. We did discuss the D16 situation further face to face after that little text exchange. D16 didn't say she never wanted to see him again. She finally answered her phone. When he asked her about coming home, if she wants to see him ever, if she's going to be mad forever, she answered with IDK. I honestly had to stop myself from smiling so I didn't look like a jerk. I'm also working very hard on not giving advice and trying to actively listen. I've been attempting to give guiding/exploring questions instead of dropping my opinion like a bomb. Even if I know I'm right...lol. So after he said that was this devastating conversation that he had with D16 I said "IDK isn't I hate you. Or never. You didn't lose her." I just left it at that last night. I kinda sat with what I know he needs to do and what I know I can't just drop on him, so tonight I'm going to suggest that he send her a loving text every day. Not a hi how's it going text. Just an I love and I miss you I hope you have a nice day text for a few days, back to back. Then ask her via text, because D16 hates confrontation, what he can do to make her want to come home or at least see him. We'll see if he's receptive. Or if this will bite me in the behind and be turned around into me being controlling or "over analyzing."
That did make me feel better. It makes me feel better about a lot. Knowing that he is at least a little cognizant of what's really going on here. Knowing that I can be honest and he doesn't immediately lash out.
Hey... that made me really happy to read. That's great. I feel like it is so important to be able to be comfortable in your own home and having to constantly censor yourself just isn't healthy. It must feel like a huge weight is lifted. I think back to how I feel now in terms of connecting with my H and how we can talk about stuff vs a year ago, or even six months ago. The anxiety of needing to monitor my own responses, the constant pressure of not wanting to screw up, having to pour all my feelings into a journal or here rather than share them with the person I always thought I could share anything with... jeez. No wonder I couldn't sleep.
Anyway, I'm happy for you. I feel that is a big step. Of course he might be a d**k the next time or decide to say you're controlling or whatever just to regain his own narrative and control of the situation, but two steps forward, one step back is to be expected, right?
My bff pointed out that maybe part of my silence, because it is so against my nature, wasn't necessarily all about the 180, or even DBing in general, but that maybe I have a little affair PTSD and I'm actually scared to open my mouth now. After this whole thing, I think she might be on to something.
I’ve been trying to separate some of the 180s I’ve been working on in the past year from stuff that H is actually just responsible for in our M, period, and it sometimes feels like a jumbled mess. Checking in with yourself to see why you’re choosing to not say something seems like a good idea. The PTSD is real.
I’m glad your H was receptive, and I’m glad you’re doing okay, wf!
Maybe this is against DB principles, but I honestly believe that some sh1t needs to get called out.
Validating is great and all but sometimes you gotta burst their bubbles.
I’m glad that you said your piece and your H is not totally crazy!!
Just journaling. Mother's Day is always kinda hard for me. This is my 2nd Mother's Day without my mother. And god bless the Midwest, we had snow yesterday. It was in the 70s just a few days before that. People in my life really go out of their way to make sure I'm doing ok on Mother's Day, and I can't even say how blessed I feel I having the people in my life that I do. D17 and the girls in the upper made a big brunch for myself and and my neighbor. They did such a good job and no help from us. I was so proud. And it was super delicious. I got flowers from my grandmother. And assorted small gifts and cards from friends. It just made my heart burst. H went to a really nice chocolate shop and got me chocolate covered strawberries. This has been his go to I forgot to get something/just because I love you gift for a long time. But I haven't seen them since Valentine's Day 2019. I have to say I was incredibly surprised. I wasn't expecting anything. I'm not the mother of his child even if I do mother her, and things while pretty good are still strained. He must have told me Happy Mother's Day at least 5 times yesterday. He told me to think about what I want for dinner. Anything I want and he'd order it and go get it if they didn't do delivery. His whole family messaged me Happy Mother's Day messages. It just felt like a Mother's Day I haven't had in a long long time. It felt like a kind of day I haven't had in a long long time.
Oddly enough my IC and I spoke about H 's whole refusal to come back into the bed and the fact that we really don't talk about where we're at keeps me on edge most of the time this past week. My IC suggested since we never separated households, that he's always been here, that the MBR might be more symbolic to him than it is to me. That perhaps it's his finish line for coming back in 100%. That as hard as it is for me, at least I have a physical marker. Yesterday felt like another marker. I can't remember the last time he tried so hard. Part of me feels like an idiot for being so excited for him doing what a husband should be doing for his wife on Mother's Day. Part of me is incredibly grateful for how far we've come in the last 6 months. 6 months ago he couldn't tolerate being in a room with me. I was shouted at for fluffing our pillows too long when making the bed. Yesterday I was considered, I was given affection, and appreciated.
Sorry to hear about your Momma! You got snow yesterday? OMG! And then a big brunch? Sounds amazing.
I don't have the best handle on your situation. I would say to stay even tempered in regards to his actions. It's always encouraged to not mind read. I know you want to know what is going on and what it means, but it is hard to really know. Time will tell. I've been guilty of focusing on my spouse too much. I am trying to go back and continually turn that focus on to myself. It is hard sometimes. I try to remember to use my IC to make me better and not to piss and moan. But sometimes you just have have to vent too so it's not like I don't understand that.
There's an old DB technique they used to call truth darts, and I think that is what Wooba was referrring to when she said "calling him out". Not that we need to be blunt and confrontational, but sometimes you just zip one in there.
Anyways, hope your Monday is full of green leaves and warm weather, not this snow...
Wayfarer I’m glad you had a nice Mother’s Day. It sounds like he is putting in a lot of effort to make you feel special.
I’ve not replied on your thread for a while but when I read your updates a couple of weeks ago, I was curious to understand what is it that would tell you what you need to know, that he is recommitted? Is it verbal or are you looking for something in his actions?
Sorry to hear about your Momma! You got snow yesterday? OMG! And then a big brunch? Sounds amazing.
Thank you ovrnbw, I appreciate that. Yes this is pretty typical for the upper Midwest. Usually not in to May, where I'm at, but not unheard of. And all in all it was a pretty amazing day.
I don't have the best handle on your situation. I would say to stay even tempered in regards to his actions. It's always encouraged to not mind read. I know you want to know what is going on and what it means, but it is hard to really know. Time will tell. I've been guilty of focusing on my spouse too much. I am trying to go back and continually turn that focus on to myself. It is hard sometimes. I try to remember to use my IC to make me better and not to piss and moan. But sometimes you just have have to vent too so it's not like I don't understand that.
That's not really a concern for me. I tend to play my cards very close to the vest. He crossed a lot of lines in the early days of this mess, and while I'm willing to piece myself out to him in doses, I don't really have my hopes set on any imagined future in particular. We are still very much in limbo. My arms are not wide open for a return. I'm simply receptive, cautiously hopeful and grateful for his good and/or husbandly behavior as we press on.
As far as IC shortly after H and OW split IC and I stopped spending a lot of time talking about the A or H. I update here because I don't even really talk to my supports about H any more either. We've been in this weird stalemate since quarantine started, so we're basically on week eight of "Well he stopped looking at apartments and asking if I'm financial prepared for him to leave. We have lots and lots of sex. We watch movies, play games, do puzzles, talk, and take long car rides. BUT he won't say I love you, cuddle me with any regularity, hold my hand and he's still sleeping on the couch most nights by choice." Even my best friend doesn't want to hear about it. I acknowledge that limbo is a long and arduous process, and don't really want to talk about it outside of this space if I'm not in crisis. IC says we (H and me) are in a pretty "neutral place,"and were prior to the stay at home orders, so we focus more on my mental health and what ever is on my mind that week. Lately a lot of childhood stuff, my grief, my depressive episode and my teenagers. But she likes to check in on the H situation. Or I bring up the quirky things that are nagging at me, things that I need to work through with her so I don't end up on Snapped or crying myself to sleep at night.
There's an old DB technique they used to call truth darts, and I think that is what Wooba was referrring to when she said "calling him out". Not that we need to be blunt and confrontational, but sometimes you just zip one in there.
I think the truth dart thing is something I need to work on instead of always letting him live in the reality he created for himself before and during the affair, and hoping he figures it out on his own eventually. I mean a lot of his narrative is falling apart on his own as he's trapped here with me. He's being forced to confront the fact that our MR wasn't as sh!t as he wanted to pretend it was, and neither am I as a wife, but the peripheral effects of his A seem to elude him and that might be the place I can allow myself to throw in a truth dart here and there when the situation calls for it.
Anyways, hope your Monday is full of green leaves and warm weather, not this snow...
Well we do have green leaves and sunshine. Not back up in the 70s though
Thanks for the well wishes.
Hey Pommy,
So I'll try to answer this as best as I can. I know what you're dealing with right now. So I'll be thorough.
I’ve not replied on your thread for a while but when I read your updates a couple of weeks ago, I was curious to understand what is it that would tell you what you need to know, that he is recommitted? Is it verbal or are you looking for something in his actions?
Well May asked me a similar question a couple weeks ago. More along the lines of what will it take for you to let your guard down, but for me I think they are kind of one in the same.
When I was reading the end of your last post, how you were feeling when he was mentioning plans for the future, it reminded me of similar feelings you were having awhile back before this whole COVID thing happened— I think right around the time he started turning back towards you, and it threw you off your zen detachment for a bit. It seems like every time he leans in it discombobulates you a bit…. but he’s done a lot of leaning and steps toward you over these months and I wonder— just to ask you a question you’ve been asking me— have you taken a step back to see how far you’ve come? What will it take for him to do for you to open back up and drop your guard and stop being surprised when he talks about your future? Not saying there is a right answer. Just wondering what your thoughts are on that.
Here's my response:
As far as H leaning back in and my clear aversion to him doing so, lol, I can see how far we've come. I can see that who he is now is not the man I was dealing with when I first came here. He was so angry, and cruel, and cold. And now he's more like the man I fell in love with every day. I can see how we went from strangers to slowly finding our way back to the friends and lovers we used to be. It's unfortunate that lovers came first this time around, but c'est la vie I suppose..lol. But, there are huge hiccups that just won't let me take my walls down. H isn't in IC, and while he's tentatively agreed he doesn't want to start until he can meet that person in person. H never made it through more than one session of DC. H hasn't said he's committed to at least trying. My H didn't choose our life over OW, he got dumped, because she chose the life she built over him. I haven't heard the words I love you since November. And that was ILYB. I've gotten I love your cooking. I love when you *insert sexual act here.* I've gotten "do you need a hug?" But I haven't heard a single "I love you." I haven't heard I miss you or I missed you or I missed this. Except once again "I missed *insert sexual act here* with you." He hasn't flat out said he's not moving out. He just hasn't brought it up. He isn't openly on apartment finder any more. He's paying rent here yet again. So I'm to assume he's here at least until June, could be July, could be forever. I have no idea. I have no idea about anything that's going through his head of real substance. For now I let my walls down in doses. I enjoy the moments in the moment and if it's overwhelming I quietly retreat and deal with it alone. I don't really need him to meet all those markers. But like one or two would be really nice. TBH I don't know that I'll be able to open up fully, let my guard down and not be surprised until he comes out and says he wants to try. That he isn't running any more. That he's still not sure if this marriage is for him but he's willing to find out. Any tiny bit of actual reassurance that I'm not just a friend for the end of the world. That he is using this time to mull things over. I think that's what I'd need to let go enough for it to not hurt and recoil when he leans in.
I don't know that what a said a couple week ago is much different than what I feel I need now. I'm kind of atypical as an LBS because when he leans in I don't tend to lap it up. Which has always been the case. A-hole I can handle. Kindness and now falling back into patterns of our past relationship throws me off. I tend to go through a shame cycle of "wow you're really going to let yourself be grateful for sh!t he's supposed to be doing." And a fear cycle that's really more based in my abandonment issues. Because of my childhood I see his softening always initially as a ploy to either use me for something, or as a guilt response that he'll quit doing when he feels better. When his behavior is consistent or there's follow through I eventually talk myself out of that thinking. I've been working really hard at just accepting what he offers at face value. Not projecting my BS on to it. Not trying to mind read. Not trying to assign any meaning other than exactly what he's offering me in that moment. That's something that permeates all my relationships. That isn't unique to H or our sitch.
As far as what I need to know for sure that he's recommitting/recommitted, vs. just letting my guard down, it's gotta be words and actions.
My H isn't a BSer. I see a lot of these WH/WAH saying things to keep their LBWs on the line. Saying things because they don't like to hurt feelings. Saying things because they think it'll be a softer landing. H says what he's thinking. Even if hurts someone's feelings. Even if it leads to confrontation. Even if he changes his mind 10 min later in that moment he meant what he said. My sitch moved very quickly. He was very determined to leave our MR and our home and wasn't quiet about it. He unfortunately had more conversations about leaving me with me than he did with OW and that bit him in the behind in the end. I said it before, we didn't truly move into limbo until this break up with OW happened. I was in limbo alone until that point. I was the one undecided about our marriage. He was sure he was leaving. He was still sure he was leaving 2 weeks after the break up. He was telling me he was leaving often and loudly and openly searching for apartments. Every R conversation which I never started, he did, ended with there's nothing left for me in this M. By week 3 he stopped saying he was leaving, stopped looking for apartments, and stopped R conversations. His silence means something. When he's made a decision he'll tell me. He'll say he loves me, and he'll say he wants to try.
As far as actions. I can see he's already trying. I know he's trying. My presents for Christmas this year were him pretending to not be a jerk around our families, not telling any one who would listen that our marriage was falling apart and he wanted to leave me, and staying off his phone with OW while we did Christmas with our girls and extended families. Chocolate covered strawberries, a focus on me for the day, and a fancy take out dinner is long, long way from where we were. He checks in throughout the day. He asks if I need things before he comes home from work. He hugs me when he knows I need it. We joke. We talk. We enjoy each other's company. We are physically intimate. But he's set up his own emotional intimacy boundaries. When those start breaking down I'll know. Hand holding (which never happens). Sleeping in the bed with me (which rarely happens). Kisses, butt and boob grabs, hugs, and cuddles when the kids are around (because those only happen when the kids are completely out of eye line and ear shot). All seem inconsequential. And I'm sure in some sitches those things are still happening in crisis or are happening and they are in limbo. But those are the lines he drew. Not me. So when he knows. I'll know.
The vets always say if they are all in you'll know. He's not all in yet. He's considering it. I can see it and I can feel it.
Just journaling: Well D16 came home for a visit. H didn't take as much time for one on one as I would've liked, but I can't fix them. I have to just do what I can for us as a family they have to work out their mess together with out me. We didn't get a lot of family time in either because D17 was helping her bf move into his big boy apartment with graduation looming, and H was busy at work as he's essential. She ended up being here 2 nights instead of the 1 she initially said she was going to. I was happy for that. And H was very clearly happy to have her here. She's being friendly and sweet, more like her old self. I think she needed a reset. Usually a reset with her mom is never a good thing, but she's older and wiser now I suppose.
D17 is on the edge of 18 and her senior year, and it makes me so sad. I have no idea how these kids grew up so quickly. Watching her help her bf settle into his grown up life is just so surreal. I was only 18 when I got pregnant with her. I can't believe I have a whole almost adult.
H still not sleeping in the bed. Still no real romance I guess. Stolen kisses here and there when there are no kids around. He calls to check in. Tells me where he's going and what he's doing and when he'll be back. Calls to see if I need anything on the way home every single day. Jokes, teasing, flirting. Lots of quarantine "adult time" still.Started making dinner on Wednesdays so I can do home work. But still can't tell me what is going through his head. Patience is the name of the game I suppose. It's a marathon not a sprint.
Wayfarer, good to read your updates and that you don’t try and second guess what’s in his head. I do that far too much and it’s exhausting. It is bizarre he doesn’t want to sleep in the same bed, and I guess you haven’t asked him to as that might be seen as pressure/pursuit? Do you feel as if he’s continuing to lean in a little more?
The bed thing isn't all that bizarre. He will sleep there occasionally. Only if he can get in and out unnoticed by the kids, which he's flat out said he doesn't want to get their hopes up. I won't ask him to sleep in there with me. I mean I guess because it looks like pursuit. But also because that's how I've been handling all of this. I'm here if you want something with me come and get it, but I'm not begging you. I don't need him in my life, or in my bed. I want him there. So he's welcome to me when he likes, until I decide he's not. I told him he's more than welcome to return to the bed since he's done sleeping with other women, and left it at that. He knows. But he was raised very, very Latino. I'm only half, I had a white mom so I was raised like a white kid.
White kids have sleep overs, and can climb in bed with their parents. That doesn't happen for most Hispanic kids, you usually have to get a couple generations out before that becomes ok, or have mixed kids. No sleepovers, sometimes family, but even cousin sleep overs are rare in some families. You don't sleep in your parent's bed. You are walked back to your bed. You don't sleep in your siblings' beds. Every one has a bed to sleep in you sleep in your spot. That last one is a little more lax with girls. Sleeping next to some one means little to nothing to me. Both kids were in my bed often since I asked H to go to the couch. I sleep next to my friends on girls trips. I've slept next to almost all my family members. Had tons of sleep overs as a kid and well an adult too, lol. But sleeping together is super intimate for H. Probably more so than sex. When he does sleep with me we inevitable wake up wrapped around each other. I get confused for a second and just roll away or pull my limbs away. He gets upset. I don't want to mind read but I think it's a mix of things. How intimate it feels is clearly one for him. There's no mind reading there needed. I think the sleeping with me and having sex means the sex isn't just sex any more and in his head he's trying to spare my feelings thinking that I'll read in to it. I'll let him have that one a little. It is a little harder to define "just sex" when you wake up being spooned by the person telling you it's just sex. I think the last piece is because he still doesn't' really know what he wants sleeping next to me feels like a nail in the coffin of returning to the MR. At least that's how my IC has been interpreting it. Like that's his finish line. His point of no return. And I can see that. I do honestly hope that's the case because I don't want to have to second guess him if he decides to come back in fully. I know the whole you'll know it, see it, feel it, with no confusion. But lack of confusion doesn't really account for my in ability to trust him fully yet.
He is leaning in as he has been. I wouldn't say anything has drastically changed enough to say he's leaning in more or less. Mother's Day was huge. I wouldn't really measure or try to interpret more than that. As of right now he really likes all the aspects of being married to me, minus the commitment part, which is whatever. 3 months ago he was convinced he was going to ride off into the sunset with who he convinced himself was the one. I'm not ready to commit to the MR fully, lol. One step at a time. I still need to do more healing here. And he still needs to figure himself and the affair out a bit more. I think the pace we're on is ok. At least for now. It's upsetting that he was ready to start a whole new life with OW in 3 months but isn't ready to start over with me. But we have a lot more working against us than a shiny new fantasy life. Like reality, old resentments, super fun new resentment, having to willingly admit fault, be vulnerable, open and honest, etc, etc. All things neither one of us is really feeling like dealing with, with each other at the moment, being trapped in and all, and maybe for him something he never wants to deal with. Who knows.
Glad things are going well with the girls. This whole lockdown thing must be so difficult for them. It's great the visit went well for D16 and hoping she is back more frequently.
H still not sleeping in the bed. Still no real romance I guess. Stolen kisses here and there when there are no kids around. He calls to check in. Tells me where he's going and what he's doing and when he'll be back. Calls to see if I need anything on the way home every single day. Jokes, teasing, flirting. Lots of quarantine "adult time" still.Started making dinner on Wednesdays so I can do home work. But still can't tell me what is going through his head. Patience is the name of the game I suppose. It's a marathon not a sprint.
Stolen kisses seem pretty romantic to me!
It's funny about the bed thing. My H came back at first so that the kids WOULDN'T find out while we were in the major limbo phase (they never knew he was regularly sleeping in the office). I've been thinking recently about how much of all of this we do or don't do is related to the children. Not freaking them out, not giving them hope, not upending their lives-- all such big, big factors. I think a lot about what would have happened if we didn't have kids. I would have left him for sure, I think-- they were the biggest factor in me not walking. But I also think that the SSM wouldn't have happened if it weren't for them. All so complicated.
I buy the coming back to the MBR as a big, final step for him. Here's my question for you-- what will you do if he just starts doing it without a conversation? Like just randomly starts sleeping in there again? That is what my H did (with a very different decision point-- more like "no need to freak out the kids if we AREN'T going to S"), but I also do think it is symbolic for them of the M in general. I had to ask my H why are you sleeping in here now (in MC I think) to get an answer.
Given how you guys have been interacting so far, I have a prediction that he'll start sleeping in there without saying anything about it and you are going to get a little freaked out when it happens! So maybe having a plan ahead of time would be good? Because you don't want to keep guessing forever-- at some point don't you want to KNOW where he stands, or at least where he thinks he stands?
Hey May,
I've definitely thought about what I would do if that happens, because I know you're right. If he does decide to come back in the bed it won't be some big ceremonious thing. He's just going to go back in there like he was never gone. Since I give the bed up to him on weekends he works (only since quarantine), since he starts at 4am when he does, he's already got an in. He just needs to set up camp and not leave. At this point if that's what does happen I'll just leave it until it's consistent, and then I'll bring it up. He'd have to be in the bed for a week or more before I'd even think about saying anything about it. At that point if he still said nothing, I'd bring it up. I do at some point want to know where he stands. I really do. But I'm kinda happy living in ignorance for the moment. I honestly don't really want to open the can of worms until he makes a real move in either direction. Or until I get sick of limbo.
Hey wayfarer! Just coming by to say hi. I’ve been reading your posts but don’t have much to add on your sitch. You seem to be doing relatively well. You are getting kisses and some action! I just want someone (male, preferably cute) to give me a hug!!! My H didn’t even wish me a happy Mother’s Day. So I love reading you and May’s threads and knowing that you guys are having some good moments with your Hs!
Well after months of being mostly OK today is our wedding anniversary. I was prepared. I have dinner ordered just for me. I have my whiskey ice cubes ready. I thought I'd at least be able to push through WFH today like it was going to be any other day just so I could survive until tonight. H then sent me a text " Don't think I forgot its our wedding anniversary. It's just weird for us right now, ok? " It's a moment like this where I really wish my mom was still here. I could really use a mom hug. I haven't cried like this in ages and it's miserable. I just want to get a hold of myself and go about my day as planned. Ignoring the he** out of today being a day of any significance.
Oh, Wayfarer...there is no one like a mom to hug you when you are feeling like this. It’s OK to not be OK right now. To feel everything and lose yourself in grief for your mom and your marriage situation. The heart is a wonder. ❤️
You are being held from afar by people who can empathize. (((Wayfarer)))
(((Wayfarer))) Not as good as a mom hug for sure. I’m so sorry. It’s like your H is both acknowledging and asking for permission not to acknowledge? Whatever. Let yourself feel the way you need to feel, and take care of yourself. Give yourself the space to acknowledge this as a day of some significance to you, a day you are allowed to have all kinds of feelings about, and you will get through it. And then enjoy the dinner and drinks you have planned for you. Did you order dessert too?
((((WF))))
I know this $ucks. You are the very best at this, you know... and your H still somehow finds the one tiny way to get you, usually by leaning in more than you expected. (And in thinking about this-- were you expecting him not to acknowledge it at all and you could both just pretend it wasn't today? So by saying something he knocked you off kilter?)
Not to mindread, but I would bet that for your H this anniversary carries some of the same feelings as moving back into the MBR. He's probably just as discombobulated as you are about it. And it isn't a bad thing in my mind that he acknowledged that to you.
Anyway, I hope you were able to let those emotions flow through you. Like Cardinal and Sage are saying, you totally deserve to have these feelings. It is OK. And, you are really good at listening to yourself and knowing what you need-- I'd spend some time doing that today, and then do it, whatever that might be. Dinner, whiskey, dessert, whatever.
Is your D ok? I'm assuming she might also remember it is your anniversary today... what if the two of you watched a girly movie and hung out?
You're incredibly strong. You absolutely have this. Know we are all here for you if you need.
(((Wayfarer))))
Take it in. I wonder if that crappy acknowledgment of his is better than no acknowledgment? It was on his mind nevertheless.
I hope you are feeling better after crying. Thinking of you and sending you lots of virtual hugs.
Well after months of being mostly OK today is our wedding anniversary. I was prepared. I have dinner ordered just for me. I have my whiskey ice cubes ready. I thought I'd at least be able to push through WFH today like it was going to be any other day just so I could survive until tonight. H then sent me a text " Don't think I forgot its our wedding anniversary. It's just weird for us right now, ok? " It's a moment like this where I really wish my mom was still here. I could really use a mom hug. I haven't cried like this in ages and it's miserable. I just want to get a hold of myself and go about my day as planned. Ignoring the he** out of today being a day of any significance.
I'm sorry to hear you're hurting today Wayfarer. The anniversary, whats transpired in your sitch combined with your husbands comment leaves a lot to question, feel, understand and can open the door to so many interpretations. I was beginning to question if you were emotionally invincible. Us on the board are thinking of you. Looking forward to an update with some funny comment on how the day turned out.
Well shortly after I posted I called my bff who I can't say talked me down, but was more Cardinal like about the whole thing. "He's not home. Cry it out, rage it out, and get it together before he gets back." So I did, lol. Mostly just the crying. My bff was the officiant at our wedding. She set H and I up. Shortly after hanging up with her my 2 other best friends, two sisters I've been friends with since grade school, my maid of honor and bridesmaid, checked in with me, and kind of reality checked me that I can't just ignore the anniversary. That if nothing else I've made it to that anniversary. Hard fought, exhausted, but gracefully. And no matter how much they don't like this journey for me all of it's my journey. Shortly after that I had flowers delivered from them. A little while later when I finally started getting it together my other friend from childhood, my bridesman, simply sent a text saying "Thinking about you today. Know you are loved." Yesterday after that text from H rocked my world I was so upset that he messed up my plan of just pretending it wasn't happening. But it was like the universe knew I A) couldn't ignore yesterday as much as I wanted to a B) gave me a reason to celebrate because if nothing else I learned the people I chose to stand by me on my wedding day are my people. Those are the people who in my brightest and darkest moments are going to be by my side
As far as H goes I hadn't anticipated him acknowledging our anniversary like at all. He's typically avoidant. I assumed because it was going to be awkward he'd just pretend it wasn't happening as well. I didn't respond to his text so he started sending me funny and cute videos then asked me what we were doing for dinner. D17 was going to be leaving in the late afternoon to help her bf make his first big boy meal for his roommates and her. I told him my plan. He asked me to cancel it. Suggested we get sushi. He came home showered, ordered our dinner, paid and picked it up. We picnicked on the living room floor, my suggestion. Watched a movie, his suggestion. Drank lots of wine. Had empty house "adult time" also his suggestion. Ate some ice cream while binge watching Jersery Shore. Joked around. Shared memes. Discussed the kids. Talked more about things we want to do this weekend. He wants to hit up a few stores that finally reopened. I want to drive out a bit into the country and go hiking at a state park. He didn't really invite me and I didn't really invite him. It got late and I figured I'd go climb in bed. No, he didn't decide he's sleeping in bed with me now. He did call me back into the living room when I was about to close my door for the night. H told me to look into what park I want to go to and let's plan that for Saturday and let's do the stores Friday since we both get done early. Always throwing me off this guy.
It wasn't the anniversary I had planned for this year. Not the one I had planned when I woke up yesterday. Not the one I was thinking about 8 months ago. And definitely not the one I thought I'd be having 3 or 4 months ago. We aren't magically better. We didn't even really talk about the MR. We just did the best we could when I think we were both feeling pretty sh** about the whole day. It wasn't what I wanted in any iteration of what I thought it should be. But it was exactly what I needed. Him doing his best to be kind and thoughtful. And me just letting go and letting god instead of trying to bend the universe to my will.
Wayfarer, I'm so sorry that your anniversary was so painful for you. H's behaviour is just bizarre, but then after all the things I've read on this board, toegther with the experiences of my own H, really not suprising. He sounds in a world of confusion still - so much positivity in his actions....then he drops that in.....then resumes positive behaviour about how to spend the weekend together. Wow.
Do you think he wants to come back but because you're not putting pressure on him about the MR, about moving back to the MBR, you're not pushing him or punishing him over the A, he's not sure what YOU want, and that he doesnt want to make assumptions that you actually want to celebrate the anniversary? Maybe he's scared of jumping back in with both feet because you're not demonstrating that you're in with both feet?
Honestly, my initial thoughts were that he was an idiot, but I'm wondering now if he's apprehensive. Has he shown any remorse over his A? Would he come to you if he wants a R talk? Would he initiate it do you think? I'm just wondering if it's in his personality to have those kinds of talks, that he might want to come back but knows he's been an idiot and doesnt know how to come back. He acknowledged the anniversary - that's a positive; how he acknowledged it could be interpreted as him holding back through fear of being rejected (like he was by AP)?
Hugs WF x
We just did the best we could when I think we were both feeling pretty sh** about the whole day. It wasn't what I wanted in any iteration of what I thought it should be. But it was exactly what I needed. Him doing his best to be kind and thoughtful. And me just letting go and letting god instead of trying to bend the universe to my will.
Hey... I know it was tough. Weird so many of us have anniversaries around now! I think it is wonderful that your definition of your wedding day expanded to be more about just you and him but about all your friends and family that love you and shared in that day with you, and took the time to let you know you are loved.
I actually see lots of positives in what ended up happening. He reached out and let you know he was feeling weird about the day... of course he was, as were you. I know it threw you for a loop but it was honest and open and better than doing what you had assumed he would, which is pretend it wasn't happening. He made a real effort to make it a nice night and be together with where you both are right now.
You are so strong and good at not having expectations... but I've been thinking maybe you do have expectations, just expectations in the other direction, that you still think he's going to walk? I wonder if that is a self-protection mechanism for you, and he keeps throwing you off by these behaviors in the other direction, leaning in instead of out. What would it take for you to let go of that set of expectations too, believing that he's still leaving?
HUGS.
Hey Pommy,
Do you think he wants to come back but because you're not putting pressure on him about the MR, about moving back to the MBR, you're not pushing him or punishing him over the A, he's not sure what YOU want, and that he doesnt want to make assumptions that you actually want to celebrate the anniversary? Maybe he's scared of jumping back in with both feet because you're not demonstrating that you're in with both feet?
Honestly, my initial thoughts were that he was an idiot, but I'm wondering now if he's apprehensive. Has he shown any remorse over his A? Would he come to you if he wants a R talk? Would he initiate it do you think? I'm just wondering if it's in his personality to have those kinds of talks, that he might want to come back but knows he's been an idiot and doesnt know how to come back. He acknowledged the anniversary - that's a positive; how he acknowledged it could be interpreted as him holding back through fear of being rejected (like he was by AP)?
I think him not wanting to make any assumptions on how I wanted to handle the day was exactly what was happening. He was trying to gauge how I wanted to acknowledge it. But H not being the most poetic it came out more pointed in that text than intended. That being said you were probably closer to the mark with idiot than with apprehensive, but I'm sure he's a little of both.
He is remorseful for the affair but not in the way I'd like to see yet. And I know I can't hold him to my expectations but he's still in a lot of denial about how far reaching this was, or how deeply it effected our girls. He's sorry he hurt me, but that doesn't mean he's sorry about the choices he made. He's sorry he did the things he did because I "didn't deserve that," but doesn't really understand or has really dug into why he did them. He's sorry he said the things he said , that apology was one of the first ones I got and the one that mattered the most to me. But I don't know the depth and breadth of that remorse because I don't ask. And honestly I don't really care that much. I care more about him being understanding and remorseful about how traumatic this was for our kids. I'm more concerned about him understanding himself better to get why he/we got here. I'm more concerned about him dropping this narrative that I made our MR incredible difficult, that I'm incredibly difficult. And that the good times can't ever out weigh the bad. I'm not perfect but you can't say I didn't deserve to be treated that way and then back pedal into well I may have set the house on fire but you know you stained the carpet and broke a window. That thought process is what I really need to see change. I'm not entirely sorry he had the A. And since he's not as introspective as most it could take years for him to get to a place where he is truly, truly remorseful for everything he did, and how it happened, and why. I just don't have the expectation of his re-commitment hinging on him being 100% remorseful here.
He would initiate an R talk. I only ever initiated R talks when I thought we were in a committed and loving relationship. And when the affair started because I was under the impression I was in a committed and loving relationship. I wouldn't even bring up where "we" were going in the early part of our relationship. That was on him. I was going to keep one foot out the door until I was told otherwise. However you might be on to something with the fear of rejection thing. I know he doesn't handle rejection well. He's a people pleaser. That may be something I need to give some more thought.
Hey May,
I've been thinking about this a lot.
You are so strong and good at not having expectations... but I've been thinking maybe you do have expectations, just expectations in the other direction, that you still think he's going to walk? I wonder if that is a self-protection mechanism for you, and he keeps throwing you off by these behaviors in the other direction, leaning in instead of out. What would it take for you to let go of that set of expectations too, believing that he's still leaving?
Honestly yes I do still think he's going to walk. I do still think he's on the fence here. I think there's a much larger chance of him packing his sh** and going in July than there is of him returning to the MBR. I don't know that me and our MR is worth the work it'll take to stay. I think the good behavior throws me off more because it means I have to accept it for what it is with out having any idea what the intent behind it is. Are you doing this so you get your friends after D fantasy? Are you doing this because being here during the pandemic serves you? Are you doing this because you're actually trying? Everything he does my brain is immediately asking those questions. It doesn't matter if I can shut them down quickly. They are there and they are asked every time he so much as smiles at me and says thank you.
I don't know what it would take for me to stop believing he's going to leave. I have abandonment issues that I'm still working through from childhood so it would probably have to be a lot. A lot of reassurance. A lot of doing work. A lot of letting me be needy and him being ok with that. And me being ok with that. Honestly I really need to hear him say he wants to try. He spent so much time in the last 6 months telling me he doesn't know the point of trying, and that there's nothing here for him to bother trying for, I think I need that. I need him to tell me he sees value here and he wants to try.
Just journaling: So a lot has happened and not a lot has happened at all since the anniversary. And I'm finding myself in an incredibly uncomfortable space for me. I know part of this is the protests and riots happening in my city amping up my anxiety. But I can feel myself running through the stages of grief over this/him/us at a rapid fire pace. I'm mostly calm and collected. But if I'm left alone in my thoughts too long I feel like I'm drowning in all the things that we're just not saying. And then there are times where I look at him and he smiles and winks at me, or grabs at me like he used to and I completely forget how broken we still are just for a little while. June 1st is 6 years we've been living together as one family under one roof. Father's Day is around the corner and I sat down with the girls to pick out gifts. Planning weekends coming up this month. Every day gets a little more like we were. He offered to drive my bff's husband to pick up his car from the shop instead of me having to go. He messages me more and more midday to just chat. He's consistent and conscientious about telling me where he's going and what he's doing and checking in with me if it's been longer than anticipated. Checking if I need or want anything on the way home. But we say absolutely nothing about our relationship to each other ever. I'm just frustrated because I feel like we're stuck. Like we've been in the same exact spot forever. We've been in this stalemate of limbo for months now. And I know he's growing. And I can see he's changing. And I can't rush him if this is what I want. That I need to drop my expectations that this is going to be resolved in one way or another soon. But he held this I'm moving out narrative over my head for so long every month that goes by I'm waiting for him to tell me he's signed a lease. And every month I watch him go pay the rent here. It's June. And if you look at my first thread. Back In January when he told me he wanted to moved out I said I'd really rather he not go any where until June. It's what's best for me financial. And it's what's the best transition time for the girls. He wanted nothing to do with it. Steve85 said something to the effect that it was all words, just words, and "I bet he'll still be there in June." Well he's still here. And in some ways a better husband than he had ever been. In just about every way a much better husband than he was when he told me there was no way he'd stay until June. I'm not feeling defeated or like my emotions are out of control. I just feel tired. God I feel tired of patiently and quietly waiting him out.
wayfarer, give it some more time. Likely the changes you've made are having an impact on him. My W on BD was ready to run headlong into her plan of getting a D, getting a job and getting an apartment. The longer she was still here and I was working and growing the less headlong she ran down that path. Patience is the key. Give him the time he needs to sort it all out. At some point he will want to deal with it and will come to you to discuss it.
My question for you is what will you say? Hopefully you've got a list of things you'd like to see from him so that both of you can commit to MR 2.0. Things like IC for him. MC for both of you, etc.
Do not be the one to initiate this conversation, but be ready for it when it comes.
In the meantime, DB.....GAL, 180s, detachment. And never stop DBing.
Hi friend.
Thank you for checking up on me... I needed it. I'm glad you updated here too because I've been thinking about you. i have some thoughts for you though I may mostly be talking to myself as much as I'm talking to you
And then there are times where I look at him and he smiles and winks at me, or grabs at me like he used to and I completely forget how broken we still are just for a little while.
is it so bad to let it go, sometimes? Like you counseled me to do on our anniversary? It is OK to be in the moment and be happy with what is happening right now, no matter what lies unresolved or what might happen tomorrow? I think I mentioned this in a post many months ago, where I heard a guy speak who is close with the Dalai Lama. He said His Holiness is always, always in the moment and feels everything so deeply right then-- but there is zero holdover from one moment to the next. Tears could be streaming down his face as he hears a horrible tale of torture and then the next minute he's cracking up at a joke. Now obviously the Dalai Lama sets a high bar. But is there something else you can do or try to be more comfortable sitting in the moment, especially with all the other things happening all around us right now? I'm thinking I might re-start meditation practice when I can.
I'm just frustrated because I feel like we're stuck. Like we've been in the same exact spot forever. We've been in this stalemate of limbo for months now.
I know EXACTLY how you feel. Totally been there. But then read your next two sentences...
And I know he's growing. And I can see he's changing.
You probably aren't in the exact same place you have been for months. Things have changed. Things continue to change. I definitely see it in your posts, his behavior really shifting and leaning in more and more. MWD talks about setting little tiny achievable goals and seeing if you get there-- wonder if you can do that, or review your own journal or thread to get a bit of distance to see how far you've actually come. Cause it is a long ways.
And I can't rush him if this is what I want. That I need to drop my expectations that this is going to be resolved in one way or another soon.
I hear you, sister.
But he held this I'm moving out narrative over my head for so long every month that goes by I'm waiting for him to tell me he's signed a lease. And every month I watch him go pay the rent here. It's June. And if you look at my first thread. Back In January when he told me he wanted to moved out I said I'd really rather he not go any where until June. It's what's best for me financial. And it's what's the best transition time for the girls. He wanted nothing to do with it.
I feel like you're really holding onto this one. You passed some of the other deadlines-- wasn't he originally wanting to MO in April? And then you guys agreed to talk in April too? Do you think you'll feel differently when he pays the July rent? Or does this whole Covid situation screw that up somewhat?
So question-- what would it take to drop this moving out piece in your head, or at least assign it the same amount of angst as all the other crap? He also hasn't said anything about it in a long, long time. And back then when he was gung-ho to MO he did all KINDS of other things and said all sorts of terrible things that it seems (at least to me, from afar and from what I read that you post) that his day-to-day positive behavior has slowly erased, or at least started to outweigh the effects of most of those other things he had said/done in the past in terms of how you view him. What would it take for you to let go of worrying about the move out part?
I'm not feeling defeated or like my emotions are out of control. I just feel tired. God I feel tired of patiently and quietly waiting him out.
I am so tired too. It is so exhausting. I'm thinking about what you wrote on my thread and the truth is I somehow DO want the fairytale, H to collapse at my feet, OMG I was so wrong and I realized that losing you would tear me apart and how can I ever make it up to you? I probably watch too many sappy movies. And I'm coming to realize that this will probably never happen, even if we totally end up building a blissful M2.0, given who my H is. But this day to day slog of patience and letting go is just a lot. (And... I also see how people in our situations can have rebound/revenge affairs. I was just sitting here thinking how I would feel if some young hot thing came along and looked at me all googly eyed and really listened to everything I said and wanted me after all these months of whatever this is. Good thing we are still on lockdown and that would never, ever happen!)
And I have an idea for you, to take or leave... what if you had a baby R talk? Not a real one, not asking him to commit. Just telling him maybe a little of how you feel? Validating what he said on your anniversary and saying this is weird for me too and I don't know what the future holds but I'm glad you're here? Or something along those lines? It might be a terrible idea, I don't know. But in my case having those tiny little conversations about small things like the Spotify playlist really did help me, without getting into any depth about how he felt or what our future would look like. Just me telling him how I felt about a really specific thing, him listening, and taking action.
(((WF)))
Oh boy, May, you gave me a lot to think about here.
is it so bad to let it go, sometimes? Like you counseled me to do on our anniversary? It is OK to be in the moment and be happy with what is happening right now, no matter what lies unresolved or what might happen tomorrow? I think I mentioned this in a post many months ago, where I heard a guy speak who is close with the Dalai Lama. He said His Holiness is always, always in the moment and feels everything so deeply right then-- but there is zero holdover from one moment to the next. Tears could be streaming down his face as he hears a horrible tale of torture and then the next minute he's cracking up at a joke. Now obviously the Dalai Lama sets a high bar. But is there something else you can do or try to be more comfortable sitting in the moment, especially with all the other things happening all around us right now? I'm thinking I might re-start meditation practice when I can.
It's not. But it's those moments of him leaning in that break me down more than the moments of uncertainty or the tense moments. But given that I'm watching military vehicles drive just blocks from my home and getting curfew alarms on my phone every night I think maybe it's time to start trying harder to center myself and just live moment to moment. I think I need to just let go of my past trauma and just let him be him in that moment without over thinking it.
I feel like you're really holding onto this one. You passed some of the other deadlines-- wasn't he originally wanting to MO in April? And then you guys agreed to talk in April too? Do you think you'll feel differently when he pays the July rent? Or does this whole Covid situation screw that up somewhat?
So question-- what would it take to drop this moving out piece in your head, or at least assign it the same amount of angst as all the other crap? He also hasn't said anything about it in a long, long time. And back then when he was gung-ho to MO he did all KINDS of other things and said all sorts of terrible things that it seems (at least to me, from afar and from what I read that you post) that his day-to-day positive behavior has slowly erased, or at least started to outweigh the effects of most of those other things he had said/done in the past in terms of how you view him. What would it take for you to let go of worrying about the move out part?
I set an R talk for March 1 that he ignored and started R talks multiple times in January and in February. OW had dumped him before my March 1 date. The day I didn't want to say a thing about our R until....April 1 was when he said he'd leave. Then after he got dumped pushed it out to "IDK May or maybe June." Well he just paid the rent for June. But I haven't brought up anything about us since a couple weeks before quarantine when I finally asked him what was going on considering the changes i.e. sleeping together again, not disappear, not being out all night, etc. And it ended with him yelling "it was just sex, I knew this was going to happen. and Me calling him pathetic, immature and a coward for being willing to throw his whole life away in 3 months but refusing to give it 3 months to try with me. Then I apologized for being a b**** not for what I said. I offered an ear over the break up. We resumed sleeping together. Parent teacher conference. D16's bday. And then quarantine. So while I think covid gave me the gift of time it's thrown his previous time line out the window. And I haven't gotten a time line update since. So I guess I'm feeling like all those deadlines are more looming in the ether than erased entirely.
However, he's shopping like crazy since the stores reopened because he lost a lot of weight during this whole thing too. But his weight doesn't fluctuate like mine so I've been able to supplement my online shopping with skinny clothes I had in the basement. He just kinda looked homeless or disheveled. He's still paying all his bills around here and paying for nearly every meal that gets ordered in. Still buying things for the girls. So if he is going he's going on a really tight budget. I don't know that I'm going to let go of the he's going to leave unless he tells me differently. I think if he pays July rent though I'm going to have to initiate an R talk. I'm sorry but that that point I'm just going to have to ask what his plan is. I know it's not DBing but by month 6 of I'm leaving but I haven't left I think it's my right to ask wtf is going on. I wouldn't care if he's still on the fence. Fine. But by that point we're not just going to leave things unsaid any more.
I am so tired too. It is so exhausting. I'm thinking about what you wrote on my thread and the truth is I somehow DO want the fairytale, H to collapse at my feet, OMG I was so wrong and I realized that losing you would tear me apart and how can I ever make it up to you? I probably watch too many sappy movies. And I'm coming to realize that this will probably never happen, even if we totally end up building a blissful M2.0, given who my H is. But this day to day slog of patience and letting go is just a lot. (And... I also see how people in our situations can have rebound/revenge affairs. I was just sitting here thinking how I would feel if some young hot thing came along and looked at me all googly eyed and really listened to everything I said and wanted me after all these months of whatever this is. Good thing we are still on lockdown and that would never, ever happen!)
I had a few somethings looking at me googly eyed hanging on my every word. One in particular I let get a little far. It made me feel great in the moment. But after, I'd feel like I was no better than H. And all we did was talk. It's hard to stay on the petty a** high ground if you can't be on the moral high ground. So it's not what I thought I'd get out of it. And I'm still very, very much in love with H. Through this all, I love him so much there is no way any other man could really make anything worthwhile work with me right now.
And I have an idea for you, to take or leave... what if you had a baby R talk? Not a real one, not asking him to commit. Just telling him maybe a little of how you feel? Validating what he said on your anniversary and saying this is weird for me too and I don't know what the future holds but I'm glad you're here? Or something along those lines? It might be a terrible idea, I don't know. But in my case having those tiny little conversations about small things like the Spotify playlist really did help me, without getting into any depth about how he felt or what our future would look like. Just me telling him how I felt about a really specific thing, him listening, and taking action.
I think honestly that's probably a good idea. I think we're so far out from a tiny kind of R talk spooking him like a skiddish cat that it would probably be fine, but I just didn't really know how to graze these things. His knee jerk before was always "well I'm still moving out there's nothing her for me." I think I was worried about that. I just can't keep hearing that and not reacting. But approaching something he said and he did that he took the lead on acknowledging might be a safe way, just to let out a little of the pressure that's building up. Just enough to not feel like I'm drowning or so exhausted.
You gave me a lot to think about. Thank you May. I appreciate you so much. xoxo
Like you said, so much is going on in the world right now, maybe it wouldn’t hurt to just take a step back and again, let time do the magic. With time things may reveal themselves. I understand how it totally sukcs to have that “move out plan” sticking out in the background, always at the back of your mind. But actions over words right? He’s still here. And he’s still paying rent there. He might not even know how to answer you if you ask about him moving. Because maybe he doesn’t know what he wants either. But you do deserve answers at some point. How about letting him know that it is something you’re thinking about without explicitly asking him whether he’s still moving? Kind of talking him through your thoughts but not really pressuring him to clarify (yet)?
Journaling: And I feel like I shouldn't be given what I've seen happen with Sage and May within days of each other. My god. These WHs. I've been avoiding posting because the reality is nothing is happening. Slow going. Not IronWill's glacial pace but we are certainly moving so much slower than I had ever anticipated at this point. Things are same old same old for the most part. We exist as a married couple who doesn't share a bed or says I love you. The only real new development is he invited me to a grad party with him yesterday. It was a) the first time he invited me any where just the two of us that had absolutely nothing to do with our kids and b) it was the first time we had been out together and in front of a couple who I know, know what's been going on. The husband is one of H's good friends and knew everything, by H's admission, but we have no mutual friends and he has no social media so he just kind of just dropped out of my eye line per se. We had a great time. Still not in our bed to sleep, I should be really specific nothing has changed about the other times he's finding himself in our bed. That is still way more often then it had been for years. Still no hand holding. He did get me a drink every time he got himself one. He guided me with his hand in the small of my back for the first time in ages. And as usual I feel like a complete fool for being excited that he's doing sh** he should be doing as my husband. And I am genuinely excited at his baby steps in letting me be his wife in the outside world, not just cloistered in our 4 walls.
Two nights ago my mom came to me in my dreams. And she just wanted to ask me how things were. I told her how things were going and how stuck I felt. My mom was never one for advice. She was the queen of validation. Just and "I'm sorry hunny. Well if he can't see what he's got he's an idiot, but I think he'll get it together" kind of mom. For the first time in ages I didn't bawl my eyes out after her little dream visit. We just had a nice chat and I woke up happy. The next day he invited me to go to that party with him. Last night I dreamed that I was laying in H's arms and he genuinely apologized for dragging me along on this ride and said he loved me. I don't put a ton of stock in my dreams I'm a little woo woo, but not that woo woo. However, I completely stopped dreaming during the crisis phase of this. I had only one dream from November - March and it was me being trapped in uncomfortable situations with H. 1 night 5 different scenarios. All me trying to get away or avoid H entirely. Then my mom came to me in a dream in late March and I had such a hard time getting myself together I climbed on top of H as he was waking up on the couch and said I don't care if you don't want to be the person who comforts me there's no one else so you're stuck. Hug me like you give a d@mn. He did. And from that point on if I look blue he offers me hugs and asks what's wrong. I don't think he's going to tell me he loves me tomorrow. But I do think my mom was throwing me a bit of bone to try to stay focused here and stay on the path.
Hi WF,
I think slow and nothing really happening is a good thing from my perspective at the moment!
I just wanted to pipe in and say I've been thinking of you, and wondering if I had taken a more WF approach if I'd be where I am right now-- kept my expectations at a minimum, avoided all R talks... so just want to give you a shout-out for staying the course. I know earlier I was asking you why you didn't want to open up those questions and now in my own sitch I wish I had been more patient. Maybe we would still be in the same place we are now in a month or whatever-- maybe my H was never going to let go of AP in his head-- but I have been wishing I could have channeled more WF in the last few weeks.
I'm glad for you, though-- things do sound good. baby steps are probably better than big swings. I think the hugs and the dream are a really good thing.
xx M
Wayfarer,
hi. I want to thank you for the top notch advice you have given me. I've read up a bit more on your thread here. Like me, it is easier for you to see others' situations more clearly than your own.
He didn't really invite me and I didn't really invite him.
You guys are both a bit worried, so just go slow. Remember that pressure and anxiety is something we create and wouldn't exist otherwise.
Always throwing me off this guy.
In some ways, he's keeping it fresh. Isn't that good for a relationship? Eh, eh?!
As a guy I can say that we are conditioned a certain way and that conditioning has its positives and negatives. You want him to talk more and open up, well I think you know how that works normally but now your situation has a strange element (affair) involved. Gotta breathe, gotta keep cool. Things will come around. And if they don't, you can always leave anyways!
When he does sleep with me we inevitable wake up wrapped around each other. I get confused for a second and just roll away or pull my limbs away. He gets upset.
One of the DB principals is to do what works. Doing what works isn't what always feel best in the moment. For example, I am more than capable of eating the whole thing of Oreos, that won't work for my health goals though! So do what works.
It is a little harder to define "just sex" when you wake up being spooned by the person telling you it's just sex.
Yea that does sounds confusing...try not to read into things too much. I can tell you like to think and analyze, it's probably a strength of yours. Sometimes you gotta take off the thinking cap and put on your party pants.
Overall, I think you seem to be progressing and doing well.
Just journaling: Same slow and steady pace. Nothing much has changed really but some revelations.
This past weekend I was taken out as his wife to a housewarming BBQ since everything has to be outside these day. Unlike the grad party I knew every one there. The couple who bought the home are the couple who were married in the Caribbean in early October. The last thing we did where we actually liked each other...lol. The H in the couple is my H's best friend, was the bestman at our wedding. My H was the bestman at his. So best man and his wife clearly knew everything that was going on. Her and I had a little heart to heart. She told me how worried they were for me, but funnily enough started worrying more about my H because of his weird erratic behavior. She and bestman were actually a little surprised when I showed up, they hadn't realized what way things were going. But she said her and bestman both felt it was pretty positive that I was there.
They had a party back in January that I didn't go to. Apparently I was sick...... I was unaware that I didn't attend because I was ill 1) because I wasn't ill at that time 2) I had no idea there was a party until after the party happened and 3) I didn't even know I was invited until this past weekend. Also much to my surprise , and apparently theirs as well at the time, given H's behavior, OW wasn't in attendance either.
H was throwing around a lot of us-s and we-s at this BBQ. "Oh we grill all the time. WF loves the grill I got her last year for her b-day." "Oh yeah WF does all the grilling in our house" "Oh we try to eat healthy like Sunday-Thrusday." "Oh we've been meaning to try that." It's such a mind f***to hear him talk like that. I mean he does it around here and my brain is screaming "We, who?? Last I checked we weren't a 'we.'" Him doing it around a bunch of people was that on 11. We did have a lovely time though. And it was nice for things to feel normal, like really normal for a little bit.
I'm starting to wonder if he's bringing me around his friends so he can feel things out with out much consequence, and/or deal with the shame and the back peddling in bite sized, easy to swallow chunks. I know it's mind reading I get it. But the leaning in always throws me.
He really enjoyed his Father's Day. The girls picked out cards. I got him a couple of small gifts and threw them in a bag with the cards for the girls. He thanked me for the gifts, because he knew the girls didn't pick them...lol. Ordered in what he wanted for dinner that night. He took the girls for a hike earlier in the day. I was invited but I had a paper due. All in all though it was a lovely weekend.
Umm pretty sure D17 caught us getting busy. But I haven't really brought it up. And she hasn't either. So I've been leaving it. She's been house sitting this week so we've been kid free since Monday. H came home early from work and we went to the bedroom. As we were getting dressed H's eye got wide and said I think D17 is here. She was. The bedroom door was closed tight but there's no way she didn't hear us. When he decided to try to sneak out she was in the bathroom. I have no idea. I feel like I need to just leave it be unless she says something.
So I guess that's all for now.
Oh Wayfarer, I always have a little giggle at your posts. I don’t know if that’s appropriate given that you’re in such a hdfk situation but you do always bring an humour to your posts! At face value, your H seems to be a model husband....but what on earth is going on in his head! I know you’ve had payment of the July rent as a milestone in your head...when does that happen? I do think his behaviours are very positive, and “going public” seems to be a good step forwards, even if it’s still feeling like more limbo for you. Hang in there!
Please giggle, my dear. I do. All the time. Even when I'm sure from the outside it looks like I shouldn't. And honestly if I didn't have my sense of humor through all this even in the really dark days I don't know that I would've survived. But I've always had kind a dark and quirky sense of humor.
Well July rent is due in a week and no packing is being done and no word on a lease so I'm guessing he's paying July's rent too. As it seems like his actions are progressing in tiny increments I'm leaving it alone. I think if we were still kinda at a stand still I'd be more keen on poking the bear but as it is, I'm just going to let it ride and see what he's going to do here. I'm still very much prepared for either path. I'd obviously rather he stay and we fix this, but if he'd rather go I'm not going to stop him. My A type nature and control are big issues for him so letting him just have this, and find his way back on his own volition I think is going to be a big part of the healing process. And taking this tortoise pace is helping me deal with my anger and sadness over the A and working towards forgiveness. If there's a time where he's ready to work through the A I want to have done enough of my own work that we can just focus on rebuilding trust and digging into how we ended up there.
Wayfarer, I wanted to thank you for your kind note on my thread a bit ago. It means a lot to know you're reading along. I too am keeping up with your thread, though I am often quiet.
And taking this tortoise pace is helping me deal with my anger and sadness over the A and working towards forgiveness.
Given all I've read here, this seems so smart. Sometimes I think I fall back into thinking this period is waiting, is static, but really there's a lot going on under the surface for me, even if, maybe to others, it doesn't appear to be the case. Would you mind saying more on how you're personally dealing with the anger and sadness and working toward forgiveness? Has your approach changed over time? Is it mostly through IC, or happening at a more conscious or subconscious level? Just curious, if you'd like to reflect.
Hi Wayfarer,
I think you're being really smart to let it be. I wish I had.
That being said... I have a question for you. I feel like you and I came to a similar situation with similar personality types around patience and control and difficulties with the same behaviors in our Hs. And maybe our Hs have some similarities as well in terms of them needing to process all this on their own, etc etc. But I also think we somehow approached the actual reality of the situation -- H "in love" with another person, living in the house, carrying on an A-- and our expectations for the future from a totally different perspective. You have been able to believe to your core that he is walking, and therefore you get thrown when he leans in. I always believed to my core that H wouldn't walk, and therefore get thrown when he reverses course, and probably dropped my DBing way too early. How do you do this? How did you truly drop all your expectations and just live in the now? I know you have a deadline of a year and plan Bs set in place, and you know you're doing what is in the best interest of your Ds, especially his biological D. You've made the decision to be there and not kick him out through all of this for totally logical and unemotional reasons. But in the day to day, how do you keep your expectations so free and live day to day with him leaning in more and more and more?
I'm also really interested in Cardinal's question, because as you both know, I started to have a really difficult time dealing with my own anger and sadness about the A on my own and felt I needed H's participation to heal. How are you working through this?
xoxo you are the best, WF. I heart you so much.
I have a question for you. I feel like you and I came to a similar situation with similar personality types around patience and control and difficulties with the same behaviors in our Hs. And maybe our Hs have some similarities as well in terms of them needing to process all this on their own, etc etc. But I also think we somehow approached the actual reality of the situation -- H "in love" with another person, living in the house, carrying on an A-- and our expectations for the future from a totally different perspective. You have been able to believe to your core that he is walking, and therefore you get thrown when he leans in. I always believed to my core that H wouldn't walk, and therefore get thrown when he reverses course, and probably dropped my DBing way too early. How do you do this? How did you truly drop all your expectations and just live in the now? I know you have a deadline of a year and plan Bs set in place, and you know you're doing what is in the best interest of your Ds, especially his biological D. You've made the decision to be there and not kick him out through all of this for totally logical and unemotional reasons. But in the day to day, how do you keep your expectations so free and live day to day with him leaning in more and more and more?
I think there are a few reasons for this. A big part of this is I did have a traumatic childhood. I have very low expectations for other humans as a matter of course. I also have abandonment issues so I just assume the people I love will leave me. If they don’t choose to leave, they die. Sometimes I get really lucky and it’s both.
I think also being a WW alters my perspective on this a lot. There’s a lot of time on here spent discussing WS/WAS as if they are some kind of monolith and frankly I find it annoying. All people in crisis behave the same so we treat these folks the same and to a point I guess it works but they just aren’t. Every WS/WAS has completely different abilities at coping, introspection, motives, FOO, support systems, education, religion/spirituality, etc. I can’t DB as I’m told to on the board knowing what I know being on the other side of this. There are cheaters who cheat for pleasure, or because they are genuinely horrible people. Most of the time, however, it’s a symptom. Cracks in the marriage. Cracks in their own psyche. And those folks need empathy and patience. It wasn’t about me. The cheating was about him. He was looking for something and he didn’t find it. But I also chose to let this run its course naturally and that I have to say was also me relying on my experience as a WW, knowing my husband as well as I do, and not to be too woo woo but my intuition.
I knew from the night I kicked him out of the bed. We had been fighting about her for days. He said he would never choose me over her because she was like family. He’d known her his whole life. Then I replied with so I’m not your family, ok, I understand. Then you can’t sleep in this bad anymore until your done with this sh*t. I can’t share a bed with a man who doesn’t think his wife is his family. I was ready to let him go that day, but I also knew that wasn’t my husband speaking to me. I knew if he was fighting that hard and they were just talking he was already in love and he would be his own demise in the relationship. I knew it would crash and burn in 3-6 months if I left him to his own devices. So I did. And it wasn’t easy. I cried myself to sleep every night until I invested in some really good CBD and a weighted blanket. But I wasn’t going to let him see me cry until he deserved it.
I treated our lives like a break up. In my head we broke up. We weren’t a couple anymore. I was out there rebuilding a life that didn’t include him in it. When I say I treated him as a roommate I did. I loved him. I wanted so badly to touch him, scream at him, beg and cry to him but I didn’t. We existed in the same space as we do now but anything wifely was removed. ( yes I’m aware I did laundry and made dinner for the house but I did that for my step dad too and I hope that guy dies a painful death so....) As we progress I give a little more to him when I feel it’s appropriate. I still act like we’re in a break up. It’s difficult to navigate the whole married and living together thing with that role play layer I’ve given myself but him sleeping on the couch helps. Having sex is like hooking up with an ex. Hanging out with mutual friends is like that awkward time you bump into each other sober and not at 2am. Raising kids is like raising them with an ex. We were parenting in shifts, then in tandem, now it’s together. It’s easy for me to live day to day not obsessing over the albatross because if we were our 20s I wouldn’t be focused on that, my 20 year old brain would just be focused on the sex and the potential for a future, so that’s where I reside. It’s not a marriage crashing and burning, it’s just a break up.
I’m also really interested in Cardinal's question, because as you both know, I started to have a really difficult time dealing with my own anger and sadness about the A on my own and felt I needed H's participation to heal. How are you working through this?
Well obviously with IC, but with my bff and her H because of their history and again relying on my history as a WW. My exH held my affair over my head constantly. The pills, the booze, the total lack of sex and affection. His disappearing. None of that mattered because I cheated. I don’t want H to feel like I can’t ever get over this, because I can, and I deserve for my own well being to get over it. I have been forgiving him and sitting in my anger and sadness from the beginning. I think I’ve mentioned this on another thread I was an only child until I was 13. I sit and roll my feelings around in my head over and over like and oyster and grain of sand. I dissect it all and parse out where the blame lies, motives, responsibility, and solutions until I feel like I understand it. But all of it is truly my own responsibility in the end. I control how I feel. He didn’t make me sad or angry I gave him the power to make me think he could affect me in that way. That’s not to excuse his terrible behavior that’s not how you treat your wife. But in the way it’s not either of our jobs to make each other happy it’s not his job to fix my anger or sadness over this. That’s my job. I have to work through my own insecurities and fears and trauma responses and triggers. And he needs too work on his stuff. He needs to figure this mess and himself out. I have to let all that go on my own, and he has to do his own work and release of his complicated and messy feelings around this so I can truly forgive him and he can forgive himself. Neither one of us can move on with or without each other if we don’t reach forgiveness.
Hi Wayfarer,
Thanks for sharing this... there's a lot in there.
On the healing part, I feel a lot of similarities in how I think about it too. I don't want to live out my life being angry, or sad. I'm willing to do the work it takes to get past this stuff, if it comes to that. Maybe that is part of the reason that I'm holding on, because I don't see the path to forgiveness if we D, if he leaves me for another woman and I get that thrown in my face for the rest of my life every time we cross paths because of our girls. I just don't see how I can let go of that with her in the picture. Ever. Even my best case scenario of what a post-D world looks like, I'm with someone amazing and new and better in every way than H, and he's sad and alone and regretful with no friends. Maybe some cats. I just don't have it in me to be happy for him.
But I do see the path to forgiveness through R, M2.0, whatever. For me, though, it felt like the whole process would be so much easier if it was something we were doing together, as partners, not two lonely and sad people slowly making their way forward next to each other, but not really a team. That is what it had felt like for me. What I so admire about you is your ability to say... OK. that isn't an option right now. We aren't a team. What's the next best scenario? It is moving forward on my own with healing, and the fact that you can do that with your H in the house, without needing to create this whole narrative in your head about what an awful person he is in order to move on and let him go... that is powerful stuff. You're a few rungs ahead of me on the journey to enlightenment for sure, sister.
I'm just having a hard time. I'm so glad things are moving in the right direction for you, slowly but surely. You are an amazing, strong, and compassionate person. Thanks for being there. xx
Your hard time is exacerbated by your H's lovely throuple ideal. My H was very much out the door zero consideration was given to me or our relationship until OW was totally out of the picture. His plan was that we'd have a clean break and eventually be friends again some day. Now we both know he wouldn't have stuck to that, but that's what he had convinced himself of. I pushed back at first and asked him repeatedly why on Earth would I want to be friends with my cheating exH. I was honestly just being petty at first telling him that I just wanted him to be happy, because I knew he couldn't do the same. He didn't care about anyone else's happiness. And eventually I just really meant it. I loved him, and he didn't love me, and that was ok, I was going to be fine and I just wanted the person I loved so much to be happy. But if your H gets his way, there is no such thing as a clean break in his world.
Honestly the more things progress here I don't think it's so much that he loves AP and doesn't love you. I think it's he lusts/loves AP and loves/can't function without you. And wants both. If he had the option of a sister wife scenario I truly think he'd take it. And trust me I respect polyamory and structured open marriage but it's pretty clear that isn't what your H is looking for. He'd prefer both you and AP be locked in to him and no one else but him. My H had the cordiality to only sleep with one of us at a time, and to say he loves only one of us at a time. (with the exception of 1 time in the very very beginning of this mess when he tearfully confessed he loved us both) This goes to the monolith thing. I am able to be as calm and desirous of moving forward as I am because of how my H handled this A. He's gotten rid of all of OW's trinkets. He told me a lot of things about the A with out me ever asking a thing. He's removed OW from facebook, snapchat and twitter. She's still other places but baby steps. Your H chose the MR and still couldn't do the things a normal person who chooses the marriage should want to do just to make his partner feel secure and if nothing else so protect himself from witnessing the AP moving on. But even the latter was too much to ask.
You're fighting against a lot there May. I wouldn't hold yourself to literally any standards at this point. I think if you and the kids come out of this in once piece you've reached the highest plain of enlightenment one needs to achieve through an A and a likely S/D. I'm serious May. Be kind to yourself right now. You deserve it.
If he had the option of a sister wife scenario I truly think he'd take it.
Oh, I know for a fact he'd take it. The night he told me he was back in touch with her and his feelings had come roaring back, he literally said I know polygamy is illegal and this is stupid to say, but... I cut him off.
Your H chose the MR and still couldn't do the things a normal person who chooses the marriage should want to do just to make his partner feel secure and if nothing else so protect himself from witnessing the AP moving on. But even the latter was too much to ask.
I'm just so frustrated. he's so f-ing stubborn. everything has to be his way in this whole GD mess. I am trying to channel you, let go and let god. I wish I could be stronger like it seems like literally every single person on my thread is able to do. Stand up and boot his lying cheating @ss to the curb. Or strong like you, zen and love and intuition and patience beyond measure. Stop talking to him and listening to him and be cold and hard till he gets the picture. I feel like I can't do any of this. we're going to have a stand off over who is going to blink first and will be in this same f-ing place a year from now. I don't even know how to be kind to myself in this place. (And here I am venting on your thread because I'm scared to say this on my own today.)
I wish I could be stronger like it seems like literally every single person on my thread is able to do. Stand up and boot his lying cheating @ss to the curb. Or strong like you, zen and love and intuition and patience beyond measure. Stop talking to him and listening to him and be cold and hard till he gets the picture. I feel like I can't do any of this. we're going to have a stand off over who is going to blink first and will be in this same f-ing place a year from now. I don't even know how to be kind to myself in this place. (And here I am venting on your thread because I'm scared to say this on my own today.)
. Don’t be hard on yourself May, you’re doing the very best you can and you ARE growing in strength, but it takes time to build that strength . Just like going to the gym, you don’t rock up and bench 40kgs on your first visit, you start with 6kg, then 8kg, then 10, 12...... you’ll have days where you build, and days where you sit back and rest/recover. Consistency and discipline are the key to making progress, and you are doing both of these. Be kind to yourself, remember we talk about *their* timeline? Well, you have one too. It takes time to build mental strength, because you have to *weigh* up a lot of options. Xx
I wish I could be stronger like it seems like literally every single person on my thread is able to do. Stand up and boot his lying cheating @ss to the curb. Or strong like you, zen and love and intuition and patience beyond measure. Stop talking to him and listening to him and be cold and hard till he gets the picture. I feel like I can't do any of this. we're going to have a stand off over who is going to blink first and will be in this same f-ing place a year from now. I don't even know how to be kind to myself in this place. (And here I am venting on your thread because I'm scared to say this on my own today.)
Oh May, telling you to do things isn't an example of strength or courage it's people trying their best to support you and praying you make it through this in one piece. People telling what they have done or would do also isn't strength it's Monday morning quarterbacking. Your sitch is unique to you. No one can really tell you what you ought to be doing except you. Logically knowing what would be best, emotionally understanding what is best, legally doing what is best in our country is almost never all one thing. It's just not. And if it takes you time to reconcile those things, look at all the people on your thread telling you how it's ok to do nothing for a little bit. It's ok to sit back and take this in and go at your own pace. It's ok to make sure May is ok and then deal with the a**hat. Please don't forget that. Use the Mr. Rogers quote. "Look for the helpers." You're back in crisis it's ok to not be ok right now. That's why I said please, please be kind to yourself. And if that's you coming over here venting thinking you're weak when you absolutely are not, so be it. You can hijack me to the high heavens. I'm here for it girl. But you've made it this long in this dumpster fire of a situation I would never for a second think you aren't strong enough. You have this. I said he's a sinking ship and he's trying to take you down with him. It is ok if you sputter and choke trying to free yourself. And freeing you doesn't mean D or R. It means separating yourself from the wreckage so you can survive. That's all. Survive. And be kind to yourself while you figure out how. xoxoxox
Thanks WF. It means a lot. I think I'm going to go back to some of your old threads from when your H was in the throes of the A and get some inspiration there
Setting little goals, looking for the helpers, being kind to myself and protecting myself. I think maybe that is all I can do today. Maybe tomorrow or next week I'll have the emotional space to sit in the anger and the devastating truth of where my H really is in his head. I feel like I'm still trying to wrench the controls of the ship away from him. I need to let go and start measuring the life rafts.
But the kids!! UGH UGH UGH. that part is killing me. Because whatever else he is, he is a really good dad and loves them more than anything. (Not quite as much as he loves himself... which is where maybe I'm slipping up. Because that is probably the healthier place to be.) So my life raft is going to be somewhat tethered to his sinking ship no matter what.
Hi May,
I am in a somewhat similar sitch as you. I'm separated with W in a PA, divorce mediation in process and I have a S11, and a S19.
I also used to think that W loved her children more than anything, but her ACTIONS since BD last July tell me that she's incapable of loving anyone but herself (if she can even do that) while she's in the tunnel. The kids feel the angst whether we see it or not. My advice is to choose to love yourself and your kids above all else right now, even with the temporary uneasiness and pain that will come with a decision to do so. We have no control over when (or if) our spouses emerge from their crisis. Until then, we owe it to everyone in our circle to live our best life.
Stay strong, you've got this!
Just journaling because it's been a while. We are still slow and steady. There have been more grill outs. We're at an even split of just him and I going and going as a family. The most recent one was kind of a big step. It was at my bffs house. H knows she knows all. He knows her H knows all. He's been very hesitant around them but went all in and had a great time. We all did. The previous grill out he was making a lot of "we" comments again. H had a convo with a friend's W about WFH and how he doesn't like that I'm answering emails or doing work off the clock simply because my "office" is in front of me at all times now, and that I over worked myself at my last job and that he hates to see that happen again. She said she does it too, because it's really hard not to. It was sweet to see him actually concerned about me. And my well being. I know he is. I know he was. But he was terrified to let anyone else know. He was tagged in pictures with me on facebook. He never removed the tag. He liked the pictures. Baby steps on social media too I suppose.
H has been focusing more on one on one time with the kids and time with both of them without me. Which I think is also why I'm having these pseudo dates with H. Him getting out with the girls gives me more time to work on my masters program or other GAL and more time for him to repair this gap with him and the girls. This is something that really, really needed to happen for them. Kids adapt quickly, and him doing what he can in his way to make up for his time leaving them in the dust has made a huge difference in the girls attitude directly and indirectly towards him. D16 is here more and more now. Which makes all of us, minus D17, happy... bless teenage girls, so kind and considerate.
H is still sleeping on the couch full time, but slept with me one night this past weekend, and took a nap with me yesterday. So I suppose that's baby steps too. At the start of lock down he back peddled a lot on sleeping in the bed with me because the girls were up so much later than us. They were around all the time. It was hard for him to get in and out unnoticed. He had really been on this whole he doesn't want to get their hopes up thing. He's slowly getting more affectionate with me around them and caring less about what it looks like if he's in the MBR with me, (gasp) alone.
I'm just kind of waiting things out for the foreseeable future at this point. He desperately wants things at his pace. I can accomodate that. IC feels like as long as I remain in a position of personal growth that I'm not hurting myself or anything of real significance waiting him out. She wants me to start thinking about new goals in therapy, and what I'm going to need for an R. She wants to work on how I can communicate what I need to him in a way he'll be receptive because even in a healthy mental place H doesn't really get boundaries vs ultimatums or boundaries vs. control and manipulation. And I'm kind of a b*tch...lol.
I read a lot of DnJ and Iron Will to keep me on this zen path. Just letting thing naturally unfold and being as kind, compassionate and patient as possible, not just to H but to my kids and most importantly to myself.
IC brought up that it's interesting that during this covid time that a lot of couples are falling apart but H and I, although slow, are steadily pulling together. I told her that I'm not entirely surprised. The foundation he and I had wasn't just a good one. It was a great one. I wouldn't have stuck this out if it wasn't. I've already had enough time in my life living in less than desirable living situations. I've had enough time in my life trying to make a square peg fit in a circle hole in relationships. I stand by what I said when I got here 7 months ago, I'll admit what we had wasn't perfect, but it was good, really good. I'm not standing because I'm scared of being alone. I'm not standing because I'm scared of losing H. I'm not standing because I'm desperate. I'm not standing because I want to win. I'm standing because I know if he and I can get through this this is going to be a blip in time in our marriage. And if I can't, I get to walk away saying I tried or was willing to try everything.
Hi Wayfarer,
Thanks for sharing this-- it is good to see things progressing! I think I need to get caught up on the IW and DnJ threads in case I end up in this continued limbo.
I like to hear that your IC feels positive about your continued personal growth. Can you share more about that part? The patience and control stuff, or are you focused in other areas? I'm also really glad to hear that the girls' relationship with him is improving. That is a big deal. Also, I would guess that every time he has a social interaction like this one that goes well he feels a little better about the future. I know we aren't supposed to mindread but holy cr@p, can you imagine being in his shoes? Knowing what he did and that you're still there, knowing that your friends know all, taking a deep breath and diving in and being friendly and putting it out there when he could have just as easily faked a headache and stayed home scared. I think these are all good signs. Even if he isn't crawling back on his hands and knees, he is saying to you that you matter, he's willing to sVck it up and be present and be kind and be your H in these situations even though it has got to be super uncomfortable for him.
IC brought up that it's interesting that during this covid time that a lot of couples are falling apart but H and I, although slow, are steadily pulling together. I told her that I'm not entirely surprised. The foundation he and I had wasn't just a good one. It was a great one. I wouldn't have stuck this out if it wasn't. I've already had enough time in my life living in less than desirable living situations. I've had enough time in my life trying to make a square peg fit in a circle hole in relationships. I stand by what I said when I got here 7 months ago, I'll admit what we had wasn't perfect, but it was good, really good. I'm not standing because I'm scared of being alone. I'm not standing because I'm scared of losing H. I'm not standing because I'm desperate. I'm not standing because I want to win. I'm standing because I know if he and I can get through this this is going to be a blip in time in our marriage. And if I can't, I get to walk away saying I tried or was willing to try everything.
THIS... all resonates so so much with me! I'm glad you shared it. I've been so frustrated about the fact that the COVID lockdown had actually been so positive for us. He mentioned it a ton throughout and then has brought it up multiple times post last-BD that it was so positive for us to have had this experience, regardless of what happens, we have had this time of closeness and fun and being supportive and there for each other. (We just didn't fall back crazily in love and have long LM sessions staring into each others' eyes, which it sounds like he was waiting for.) Meanwhile, our MC had 13 back to back appointments when H spoke with him last week because he has all these new clients whose Ms are falling apart.
One of the reasons I love you and love coming to your thread is this-- you can see so clearly both the good and the bad. I have such a hard time aligning both views of my H. I really respect and admire your ability to do that. I remember a long time ago you pushed back on the "PA? Why haven't you filed yet?? Don't you respect yourself??" questions win such a wise and thoughtful way... that PA = D as a knee-jerk reaction was no different from begging and pleading, just in the other direction; that if all LBSs felt that way there would be a lot less of us on the boards; that you had taken a clear-eyed look at the girls and what was best for them and it wasn't kicking him out right away. I just was overcome with admiration. I soooooo wish we knew each other IRL. I too want more than anything to know, in my heart of hearts, that I gave this 100%. I just don't want on the other end of this to have any question that I gave up on us.
Do you still have that one-year timeline ticking away in your head?
WF, you amazing soul you. I had a darling friend in my 20's who had been in foster care since he was 3. Abused, dismissed, abandoned and treated like the scourge of the earth since his earliest memories. And he was the most loving, patient, joyful, appreciative, old-soul human beings I have ever met in my life. His wisdom eclipsed his upbringing and it was an absolute marvel to be in his company. You may or may not have had the same experiences as my friend, but your wisdom and old-soul nature is the same. And my admiration of you both is the same.
I recently finished reading Westo's posts from the beginning to the end of her H's MLC. And her frank 'I need to take care of me' attitude towards his long period of indifference reminds me of you. In fact, your story and attitude is exactly the recipe for success in all the of the success stories on this forum. Keep on keeping on. No expectations, my life is better than the sum of these moments, I will win with shear resolve (whether or not the relationship succeeds), all seem to be components of the success stories. I am no truth sayer, but if I had to hedge my bets, you are on the right path to success with H.
My question is this: what keeps you keeping on? Is it your commitment to your children? Is it your love for H? Is it the small steps he takes in the (and/or your) right direction? Is it your history with H? You intuition? Or are there other motives that make you step back and keep being compassionate and empathetic towards yourself, your M and your H? You seem to be the queen of the 30,000' view of life.
Your resolve, your compassion and your patience are a wonder.
In admiration,
S
I've no doubt that you are stronger from and will remain so because of your circumstances. Your daughters inbetween their hormone filled rages are seeing a good example of how to adult. I got nothing to add to push you or getting you questioning anything. Rooting for you and the fam.
Hi, Wayfarer. It's good to hear that your H is focusing on his relationship with the kids on his own. It seems like a good sign that there's some repair happening there no matter what. DnJ and IW's threads always help me take a breath and put things in perspective. Things here feel pretty zen too.
You are simply standing in your beliefs, and, as may said, seeing things clearly for what they are. I love what you wrote on IW's thread:
I find peace in sitting still and letting this unfold naturally without my influence or interference when I read your words.
I feel that way when I read your words, too.
Thanks Core and Cardinal
May thank you for all your kind words. You always have a way of making me think and making me feel sure in my convictions.
I know we aren't supposed to mindread but holy cr@p, can you imagine being in his shoes? Knowing what he did and that you're still there, knowing that your friends know all, taking a deep breath and diving in and being friendly and putting it out there when he could have just as easily faked a headache and stayed home scared. I think these are all good signs. Even if he isn't crawling back on his hands and knees, he is saying to you that you matter, he's willing to sVck it up and be present and be kind and be your H in these situations even though it has got to be super uncomfortable for him.
I did think about that. With bff and her H it's a little less daunting. My H was friends with them first. He's known bff's H since high school and then bff since their early, early 20s when bff and her H started dating. Bff and I didn't meet until she was 24 and I was 26. So for him I think they were always the safest bet. This weekend we have a drive through/appointment only bday to attend. It's maid of honor's H's bday. My H is planning on coming with me. And those are "my friends" so we'll see. But I do see how big of a leap that was for him. And I've been there. I really do wish I could tell him how much I can see that he's trying here. But I don't want to seem pushy. And I don't want to start any conversation where I'm not sure that the outcome would be an outcome I can sleep at night after.
I've been so frustrated about the fact that the COVID lockdown had actually been so positive for us. He mentioned it a ton throughout and then has brought it up multiple times post last-BD that it was so positive for us to have had this experience, regardless of what happens, we have had this time of closeness and fun and being supportive and there for each other. (We just didn't fall back crazily in love and have long LM sessions staring into each others' eyes, which it sounds like he was waiting for.)
I kinda knew going in we were going to either tear each other apart or come closer together. There was going to be no in between given it had only been a couple of weeks after the break up that we were put in lock down together. Like you I'm grateful for this time for the girl's sake if nothing else. And all the amazing lock down whoopee. Also the LM with the staring into each other's eyes thing stresses me out and I need your H to explain that for me...lol. Reason being from the first time H and I started sleeping together again he's had this really weird thing about eye contact. Like it's way too much. Especially when I know he's going to get up and leave to sleep on the couch. I don't understand that at all. LIke I'm naked isn't that enough vulnerability. Do you really need to try to see if you can see into my soul at the same time?
One of the reasons I love you and love coming to your thread is this-- you can see so clearly both the good and the bad. I have such a hard time aligning both views of my H. I really respect and admire your ability to do that.
It's the crappy childhood and years and years working in courts. I know it goes against a lot of the grain around here but I'm sorry people aren't the sum of their actions. They just aren't. People in crisis, people who lack emotional maturity, people who lived most of their lives in survival mode just don't function on a higher plane of understanding. I'm a strong believer in meeting people where they are. I'm a strong believer of good people can do horrible things, hurt people, destroy lives, and not realize until after the fact how any of that transpired or their role in that. I had to grow up knowing that just because some one loves me doesn't mean they always have my best interests at heart. That some people just don't know how to love the way I do. And that's ok if I'm careful about how much I let myself love them. We're all light and dark. I'm not a saint because my sins are smaller. And he isn't the devil just because his transgressions were big.
I remember a long time ago you pushed back on the "PA? Why haven't you filed yet?? Don't you respect yourself??" questions win such a wise and thoughtful way... that PA = D as a knee-jerk reaction was no different from begging and pleading, just in the other direction; that if all LBSs felt that way there would be a lot less of us on the boards; that you had taken a clear-eyed look at the girls and what was best for them and it wasn't kicking him out right away. I just was overcome with admiration. I soooooo wish we knew each other IRL. I too want more than anything to know, in my heart of hearts, that I gave this 100%. I just don't want on the other end of this to have any question that I gave up on us.
One of the things around here is about knowing your core values. And frankly I know mine don't line up with a lot of people around here, but my core, who I am is a mother. I've always been. And my girls no matter what were coming first. My ego will always take a back seat to what's in their best interest. And I really wish I knew you IRL too. The kindred spirits on here honestly have kept me going as long as I have.
Do you still have that one-year timeline ticking away in your head?
Yes and no. The 1 year thing was really if he left and made no movement toward divorce or anything else permanent. And then when he changed course it was more ok well I'll give him until early November to make up his damn mind but I'm sure he'll move out in summer. Well now it's nearly mid-July. I'm getting morning texts thanking me for sandwiches and sex, and telling me how excited he is for our like hiking day trip we've planned this weekend. Since he's so tight lipped about what's going on in his head I will at some point here have to just break down and say something if he can't get to it on his own. But the 1 year thing is kinda out the window. If he can't bring himself in the bed until September and doesn't put his ring back on until October and won't even attempt MC until November so be it. I have no where else to be.
Sage, my god, you are always so insightful.
WF, you amazing soul you. I had a darling friend in my 20's who had been in foster care since he was 3. Abused, dismissed, abandoned and treated like the scourge of the earth since his earliest memories. And he was the most loving, patient, joyful, appreciative, old-soul human beings I have ever met in my life. His wisdom eclipsed his upbringing and it was an absolute marvel to be in his company. You may or may not have had the same experiences as my friend, but your wisdom and old-soul nature is the same. And my admiration of you both is the same.
I doubt my childhood was as rough as his. But I worked with kids like him for a very long time in court. And there's really only a few kinds of ways you can come out of a constant state of crisis and being in survival mode 24/7. Being able to meet people where they are, having an enormous amount of patience, and loving deeply is the best case scenario. And as I've told other people those good attributes come with ugly sides. It isn't all roses. I've worked thought a lot but when my c-PTSD rears it's ugly head I don't know if all that good heart stuff is worth it.
My question is this: what keeps you keeping on? Is it your commitment to your children? Is it your love for H? Is it the small steps he takes in the (and/or your) right direction? Is it your history with H? You intuition? Or are there other motives that make you step back and keep being compassionate and empathetic towards yourself, your M and your H? You seem to be the queen of the 30,000' view of life.
On the woowoo side ever hear of twin flames? H and I, that's who we are. It's who we've always been. I truly believe that everything that pushed us together, pulled us apart, and is pushing us back into place is exactly as it should be. The A was a huge catalyst in me moving on with my life. My life was at a stand still while my mother was sick, and then dying, and then gone. My depression took over everything. I had completely lost myself. I needed time to focus on me with zero hindrance of a MR in order to get myself back on track. No it isn't the way I would've wanted things to be to get back on track, but I needed a jolt. And this was it. On the logical side, we are what both of our girls know as stability and I won't let that slip away without a fight. They can't rely on their other parents. I desperately want to keep a space in this world that they see as home. And if it's me on my own at some point ok, but I'm not going to at least try to hold this together by myself as long as I can. On to the heart of the matter vs the head, I love H with my whole being. Even at his worst I loved him. I will love that man until the day I die. I don't feel like I'm losing time keeping on this path. I wouldn't be able to move on until my heart was done any way. Other factors include, he's the most helpful around the house he's ever been. We talk more about money now than we ever did. The sex life we have now is the one I was begging for for years. I have such a high drive there were points in our relationship and MR where we had gone weeks and months and I'd cry myself to sleep because I was convinced it was me. Part of me still kind of thinks it is. But right now H is the H I was fighting for years. Minus you know the refusal to say I love you, or sleeping next to me at night or cuddling on the couch when the kids are around. He does keep inching along here. Is it as quickly as I would've liked? God, no. But this whole thing is an exercise in patience and control. Exercises I desperately needed in this life. So if I have to keep moving along at his pace I'm ok with it. The foundation we're built on is a really really good one. And I can keep this burned, broken palace standing on my own for a little while longer, so I do. And if it gets to heavy and he's still not there to help me fix it up, then I'll walk away. I'm unafraid of what my life is without him in it. I think that helps too. I know what that looks like and it's a peaceful quiet place too. So for me I think it's most about letting things just unfold as they should.
Wayfinder,
I heart you as always.
Just wanted to quickly say:
One of the things around here is about knowing your core values. And frankly I know mine don't line up with a lot of people around here, but my core, who I am is a mother. I've always been. And my girls no matter what were coming first. My ego will always take a back seat to what's in their best interest.
resonated with me so, so much. That is who I am, too. I'm a mom. it is the core of my identity. (And probably part of why I stopped really being interested in my H for so long, too... but that is in the past.)
I'm happy for you, WF. I want a peaceful quiet place of my own.
May I totally spaced on your personal growth question. So this whole this kind of converged with my recovery from depression. My depression has a lot to do with the abuse I had to endure with my step father. My mom being sick and dying forced me into his proximity regularly and it was kind of a downward spiral. I also have no biological father in my life. Although he is currently stalking me on social media. He walked away before I was born and didn't bother to look for me until I was 15 and then again at 25, and again at 35 because he's apparently the stalker I never wanted. My mother loved me very very much, but my mother was young and while I was a year younger when I became a mom I was light years ahead in maturity and preparedness. I live for D17. I read all the what to expect books. I read tons of baby and toddler books. I had nannied before I was pregnant and while I was pregnant. There was never a barely 19 year old more prepared for a kid this side of a 50 year life expectancy. My mom was not. I was raised mostly by my grandparents. She was around to tuck me in at night most nights. She came to my concerts. She did some very mom things around my school. But in the end it was my grandparents who picked me up, helped me with home work fed me dinner, took care of me when I was sick, took me to church, took me on vacation, watched me while she went to school, and worked, and dated, and had a pretty normal life for a person in their 20s. So needless to say I have abandonment issues.
This really, really messed me up with the issues I've been working with for years. When he was angry and spiteful his tantrums would flare up my PTSD. Him disappearing and forgetting the girls at school or what have you kind of made me back track with dealing with the whole abandonment thing. Oh top of all that my personality type. I do like to micromanage the universe if I can, but that's a trauma response. I am A type and that grinds people. I've had to work really, really hard on different communication techniques, because frankly once I'm p!ssed off I'm done listening. Once you're patently wrong I'm done caring what you have to say. But that's a trauma response as well. There was a little inner child work to deal with some of the PTSD stuff and trauma responses, but that stuff is so not for me. This therapist gets that I have zero desire to embrace my inner child in my imagination. I'm working on a lot of things to make me a healthier happier person. A lot of it was brought to the surface because of this. And she feels as long as I'm still growing while waiting him out it's a fairly healthy situation. Neither of us are in crisis. Neither of us are spinning wildly. We both have our emotions in check. Sometimes probably a little too much, but so be it, so it's a healthy environment for the kids still. I'm doing my work. And he's clearly doing some of his own. So that's where that is at.
Wow, WF. This is a lot. And so brave and honest of you to be facing up to all of this trauma in this moment. This is the exact definition of not wasting a crisis, right??? You're growing and using the time to deal with your own stuff in a healthy way. I feel so happy and proud for you, honestly. I'm sitting here smiling away at my computer. xoxo