Link to first thread:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2876449&page=1I would to start this new thread by thanking those whose advice has helped me go through a rough patch in my sitch: AlisonUK, Rosy10, AnotherStander, Steve85, Ready2Change, job, FFHubby, sandi2, ovrrnbw, Jac12, LH19, & BenB.
Here's a recap of my sitch:
H (Me): 28
W: 30
T: 2 years
M: 2 months... and counting.
BD: 5th day of marriage.
No Kids.
SummaryWeek 3, Nov 2019 - Our wedding, it was amazing, both happy, happily ever after right? what could go wrong?
Week 4, Nov 2019 - Honeymoon. Wife became depressed, broke down, and then BD. Honeymoon had to be cut short and then return home.
To recap this is what I think caused her to BD: She hates changes. Wants her old life back. Worried about not being happy in M. We also had problems in the R pre-marriage: her lack of affection which causes a pursuer-distancer dynamic, I was the pursuer. We both had doubts but thought this was normal. We both believed that M will bring more happiness and will solve our problems. [More detail in first post of first thread]
Dec 2019, Week 1 - W angry at everyone including herself. Became cold, irritated and distant.
Dec 2019, Week 2 - Both of us went counselling. W still same. Kept asking for D. Same time, I discovered this forum.
Dec 2019, Week 3 - W less angry but cold. Wouldn't let me touch her. I started DB-ing.
Dec 2019, Week 4 - W calmer but still cold. I kept to my DB-ing: detach and GAL.
Jan 2020, Week 1 - W depressed again, I got angry, we got into an argument. W went back to her parent's place. We've been living separately ever since.
Jan 2020, Week 2 - W feeling better. I was mostly angry and bitter but kept my distance.
Jan 2020, Week 3 - W feeling better, but still wants D. I am calmer, started being more cordial, but mostly kept my distance.
Jan 2020, Week 4 - W feeling better, has stopped asking for D. I am working on myself and detaching.
Current situation: Stopped all pursuit. Working on my own issues, detachment and GAL. No contact with W. Doesn't initiate any interaction with W. W sometimes texts, but only about logistics. I only reply when necessary (no reply if text is informational). When I do reply, I keep it cordial and short.
Extra information- We are both muslims.
- We do not have a place of our own yet. Living with parents. Weekdays at her parent's, weekends at mine's (This is before we separated).
- We work at the same place.
You're in India or that part of the world right? I saw the 4 day wedding thing too. It's light out somewhere, remember that.
Use the stop sign technique to help control your thoughts. It's in Divorce Remedy.
Leaving a girlfriend is not betrayal IMO. No one committed for life. You couldn't leave and not hurt her, but that doesn't mean you're wrong for leaving.
You're doing well. Why are you supposed to play happy family when she wants out of the marriage? I don't get it. Your in laws are playing Fix It but they can't make her want you
Ovrrnbw,
I am somewhere in east asia. I like the fact that even though I am on the other side of the world, there are people who are going through something similar and are being kind to each other, it makes me feel less lonely. This is an amazing forum. The people here are amazing. I'm glad I found this place.
I will check out the stop sign technique. Thank you for the recommendation.
Maybe I shouldn't be too hard on myself for leaving my past R. Maybe I need to learn to let go of that guilt too. I know that very same guilt has caused me to be more anxious in current R with W and has caused unnecessary problems too. "I left a good woman to be with W, so W has to be worth it, W has to be better, or else I have made a big mistake". I hate to admit it but back then deep down, this is what I was thinking, and this has put undue pressure in W (hence me pursuing her constantly). I know this is one of the things that I need to work on.
Your wife wants to have her cake and eat it. That's why she wants you at these events. She doesn't want a marriage, but she also doesn't want to have to explain to anyone she respects she doesn't want to be married. That's her problem and not yours. If you rob her of the opportunity of having to face that conundrum and deal with it, you're robbing her of a maturity and growth experience she badly needs to have.
Yes! Thank you for saying that Alison, this is exactly what I was thinking but somehow couldn't put it into words.
Update and Journaling
I didn't go to the wedding.
W texted and asked if I am going. I replied something to the effect of "I am not going. I need space right now".
W didn't seem too happy about it, but she didn't push further.
Her parents wanted me to go and were adamant about it. I had to explain them that I am doing it for a reason and I asked for them to trust my way of doing things. Thankfully, they decided to give me that trust.
On "Going Dark"
At the moment I am "going dark" or NC or whatever you want to call it. Basically, I don't contact W and I don't initiate anything, but given that we work together, it is rather difficult to have a true NC. I only reply when it's business. Otherwise, nothing.
On GAL
Kept myself busy the whole week. I go to the gym twice a week. Do sports. Play video games. Have lunch-outs with male friends. Going out with family and friends during the weekends. I do these things pre-marriage so it's just like doing the same things as I did when I was a bachelor.
On Detachment
This is the area that I feel I have a lot of progress in over the last few weeks. The grief has mostly passed (I hope). I feel calmer. I have a lot of freedom and control over my life. It feels lighter. I can better enjoy the activities I do when GAL now.
There are times every day that I do feel sad. When that happens, I normally go and read the "Quotes Found on Divorcebusting" thread. A lot of gold advice there. It has helped keep me in focus (thanks R2C for compiling them!).
On W's Behaviour
I noticed several changes in W's behaviour during this period. She has stopped asking for D. She's much more withdrawn now. She's stopped buying me food for lunch. I do not know if all of this is a good sign or not. I try not to think too much on it, I am trying to detach after all. I do wonder if she is also doing the exact same thing as I am (i.e. NC and detachment) in respond to my own behaviour.
She does look happier and relaxed when with other people. Sometimes I feel happy for her. There are times however that I feel left out and I wished I could join in (FOMO). I tell myself "that's her life, I don't have to be sad, I have my life too, my life is enjoyable too".
W has a skin condition and the other day at work I overheard her complaining about it to colleagues. She mentioned it flaring up badly and she's having a difficult time with it. I can't help but feel bad for her and all I want to do is be there for her and comfort her (a sign of NGS or hero syndrome perhaps). It's supposed to be my job as a husband to be there for my wife. I know I can't at the moment. There are times when I want to break NC and ask her how she is doing. So this is difficult for me. I kept repeating to myself "it has nothing to do with you", "she fired you as her husband", and "you care about her, but who's going to take care of you right now? you, that's who".
_______________________________________________________________________________________
That's the update. I do apologize if my language is a bit off. English is my second language.
I guess this is the new norm for the time being. Both of us living our own life. It's quite uneventful, despite the general situation I am in. That is, until W asks for D again or I finally decide to D. I do not know when. For now, I will try to enjoy this freedom and peace.
Saw this at Dovegirl’s thread and I didn’t want to hijack her thread so I’ll bring it here.
Dovegirl, you need to brace yourself for the other shoe to drop: There is another woman. Be prepared. AnotherStander is a very wise poster here and he says there are two kinds of sitches: those that involve another person, and those that haven't found out yet that there is another person.
To the vets,
What do you guys think? Does my sitch have a possible A? Personally, I don’t think so, W and I just married and it would be crazy for her to have an A all this time even throughout the wedding.
Funbun - I had a good friend who married in November 2012 to a girl he dated for 6 years. 3 months later she said she wanted a divorce. A few months after that he found out she was spending time with a bartender from across the street and she'd been sleeping with him ever since they got married.
So...while it seems crazy it's not uncommon. Usually when people are leaving a marriage or emotionally checked out it's because there is someone else.
I know a guy that had an affair while engaged to his now W. Produced a child. That was the decades ago. It happens all the time.
A year before marriage, She (W) became close with this woman who is much younger than her. They did spend a lot of time together and instantly clicked. They became bestfriends quickly. It was a period when our relationship was going through a rough time and W was also having arguments with her old bestfriend (who is female btw). In a sense, W was having difficulties with two of her close persons and replaced us with this new woman to fill her emotional needs.
One time, she confessed that she texted more with her new BFF than me. It bothered me a bit, but it was a platonic relationship so I didn’t do much about it. Maybe it’s a normal thing women do when they have BFFs, I thought.
So sorta like an EA, but with a same sex friend..? Or am I overthinking and stretching it out here?
It does make sense, W not waiting to be married so that she can be single and not have to sacrifice her time with this new bestfriend. She had this notion that being married, she would have less time to spend with family and friends. During her breakdown back in Dec, she was pretty hung up and cried a lot over the fact that she won’t be able to see her new BFF as much. Of course, her reason doesn’t make sense because I have never stopped her from seeing any of her friends.
So W was not able to let go of new BFF and lead her to be heartbroken and want to leave the marriage..? Or am I being paranoid here.
God d@mn it.
Look at me.
The fear of W having an A has got my mind racing and now I am overthinking it.
God d@mn it, funbun.
It doesn’t matter
It doesn’t matter
It doesn’t matter
I know this will only slow down my healing and detachment. I know.
She left you. It doesn’t matter why. You take care of you now.
Journaling
Feeling rather depressed at the moment. I don't think I have anyone in my support circle here would understand how I am feeling. I don't feel like talking to them. So writing it here might help me get over this.
I have a group chat with W's family in one of the text messengers. I don't send texts there anymore but I do check it often. The group chat has been silent for a couple of days now, which is unusual, because they send text messages there on a daily basis. I realized that they have probably made a new one without me in it. I can't confirm it but it is most likely the case.
Upon this realization, I feel... abandoned. I feel left out. Rejected. I thought I had their support. I though I was part of the family.
Maybe they felt betrayed when I declined their invitation to the wedding. They were quite unhappy about it.
I thought detachment meant that I need to be be okay with the idea of W leaving. That her rejection shouldn't affect me anymore (and I thought I was making good progress). However, it didn't occur to me that I need to detach from her family too, and their rejection. Maybe I did, but the feeling hasn't hit yet until now.
Sometimes, I feel like nothing I do right now feels right. Someone is bound to get hurt whichever action I take. Either it's me or W or her family or my family. It feels like a lose-lose situation sometimes.
I need to stay focused. The path to true detachment is filled with peaks and valleys. I am in the valley right now. My only comforting thought right now is knowing that this will pass, I will make my way up towards the peak again.
Sorry Funbun. Try not to be too upset about the family. Unfortunately, this is what usually happens in situations like this. People pick sides...even if you tell them they don’t need to. It doesn’t mean that they are on someone’s side necessarily but most people feel really uncomfortable staying in touch with both parties. Usually what ends up happening is you get to keep the people you had before you met. My first XH and I had the most respectful D you can have...we are still good friends...but I stopped hearing from our couple friends pretty soon after we split because they were all childhood friends of his. We are FB friends and if we ever crossed paths, they would be super friendly but I no longer got invitations to any get togethers unless I went with him. I didn’t take it personally. It’s how things work. If your W’s family feels hurt because you have taken a step back from family activities, that’s on them. Honestly, most people should/would understand your need to do that. I had to do that in my first divorce because I was so close to his family. I felt bad so I wrote them a letter thanking them for their love and support over the years and explaining why I needed to step back. They completely understood and we have a good relationship now....20 years later.
You have a good attitude that will help you get through this. You are right. There are many peaks and valleys on the path to detachment. It will pass. Things will get better with time. There is life after BD and you can make it a great one. Keep up with GAL activities and focus on detaching...you will get there. I was an emotional mess a year ago and I got there. You can too!! (((HUGS)))
I thought detachment meant that I need to be be okay with the idea of W leaving. That her rejection shouldn't affect me anymore (and I thought I was making good progress). However, it didn't occur to me that I need to detach from her family too, and their rejection. Maybe I did, but the feeling hasn't hit yet until now.
I've felt like this too. If you look back over my old threads you'll see I was very hurt about the withdrawal and silence from H's family over the course of our separation. I had lots of reasons to be relieved - though I was also sad - that I wasn't living with H any longer. But I was shocked - perhaps wrongly - to be so immediately cold-shouldered by a group of people I'd known closely for more than 15 years. Not even a birthday card. You'll have seen that H has returned to the family home and we're working on things. It's up and down and not always easy. But I still have no contact at all with his family, I don't particularly want it and it is going to take a very very long time for those feelings to be worked through and those feelings of rejection to fade. You are very very very very early days. I have no suggestions other than to keep doing what you're doing, and do whatever self care and support you need. Are you close to your own family?
Hi FB,
Have you learned how to express your feelings in private? IE crying in the shower.
Holding our emotions back in public is important, but expressing them in private is critical. I am sure other can chime in about other ways to get the emotions out.
As I have said to many before, my journey after the BombDrop was the best worst thing that happened to me. Be thankful for everything. The skills and understanding you are learning will server you well in the future. Keep growing. FB 2.0 will look back someday and be extremely grateful for going through this.
There are times every day that I do feel sad. When that happens, I normally go and read the "Quotes Found on Divorcebusting" thread. A lot of gold advice there. It has helped keep me in focus (thanks R2C for compiling them!).
My pleasure. You can pay me back by paying it forward to newbies that will need support in the future.
Thank you everyone. Once again, your words comforted me when I was feeling low. I should be good for the time being.
Sorry Funbun. Try not to be too upset about the family. Unfortunately, this is what usually happens in situations like this. People pick sides...even if you tell them they don’t need to. It doesn’t mean that they are on someone’s side necessarily but most people feel really uncomfortable staying in touch with both parties. Usually what ends up happening is you get to keep the people you had before you met. My first XH and I had the most respectful D you can have...we are still good friends...but I stopped hearing from our couple friends pretty soon after we split because they were all childhood friends of his. We are FB friends and if we ever crossed paths, they would be super friendly but I no longer got invitations to any get togethers unless I went with him. I didn’t take it personally. It’s how things work. If your W’s family feels hurt because you have taken a step back from family activities, that’s on them. Honestly, most people should/would understand your need to do that. I had to do that in my first divorce because I was so close to his family. I felt bad so I wrote them a letter thanking them for their love and support over the years and explaining why I needed to step back. They completely understood and we have a good relationship now....20 years later.
Thank you for sharing your story DejaVu. When the feelings hit, it's easy to get absorbed into the moment and difficult to pull yourself out and look at the bigger picture: it's just a part of the valleys and peaks of the journey.
Are you close to your own family?
I can't give you a straightforward answer for this question. They are my family, yes. I see and talk to them everyday, yes. Does that mean we are close? I guess. I am not the type to open up to them easily. Mainly because I feel that when I confide my thoughts and feelings to them, they don't listen / comfort me the way that is satisfactory to me i.e. they listen to give advice or they listen in order to wait for their turn to talk. I am also the middle child so a bit of the middle child syndrome might come into play here.
Nevetheless, I have my friends. They are better at listening. Though, they have their own life so I can't depend on them too much.
Have you learned how to express your feelings in private? IE crying in the shower.
Holding our emotions back in public is important, but expressing them in private is critical. I am sure other can chime in about other ways to get the emotions out.
I usually would talk to myself when I am on my own e.g. in the bedroom or driving the car. Asking myself "why are you feeling so-and-so?" and "what do you need right now in order to be happy?" and "what's the next best thing to do?" (I got this one from Frozen 2! LOL). If another person saw me talking to myself, they would think I am crazy, but hey, it helps.
I have a tendency to hold back the tears, but I do get your point R2C. It's a good reminder. We all gotta let it out and cry sometimes. Nothing to be ashamed of, it's healthy.
I have a question regarding the use of social media during DB-ing
W follows me on several social media platforms. Ever since BD, she hasn't posted anything on her's and I have done the same. I've been thinking of going active again and numerous times I wanted to post something but stopped myself. Mostly because my intentions were to show-off my GAL to W and I know that is not good for my detachment.
However, I can't deny the fact that there is merit in subtlely "showing off" how I am moving on in life to W.
I want to know what the vets here think about this.
The way you show her you're moving on with your life is too:
Move on with your life!
No amount of showing it on social media will make it any better! Doing it for you is the best way to move on.
If you yet to manipulate her she will see right through it.
Thanks Steve.
I decided to resume my SM activities regardless. Though, not as frequent as before. I do not want to go overboard and appear show-offy to W. I intend to post things that mattered to me and things that I think would be worth saving in my SM page. I won't be posting things about my R or M. Just neutral things that mattered to me.
I want to be able to look back and be reminded of the things that I am going through right now. Some people use SM as a tool to show-off their life and show only the good things. I want to use it for myself, a place to show my life's story, both the good and the bad.
fun, yeah. It's hard to keep that stuff pure. According to my wife there is a way on Facebook to hide what you post from someone, and to hide what someone posts so you can't see it. Without actually blocking them. If you go down this path, and it is truly for you, not her, then I highly suggest you use that.
Otherwise, you're lying to yourself that it isn't for her to see. I mean, you've been here for months, why is this suddenly important to start doing?
Weekly Update
It's been a busy couple of days. Especially at work. Outside of work, I continue to GAL: workout and hang out with friends.
I mentioned previously that W and I work at the same place. To my dismay (or to my fortune? lol), both of us are assigned to work on a project with a couple of other people. I am assigned as the lead and W is the assistant. This must be some funny joke the higher ups are trying to pull I thought, but they actually didn't know any better. Just one of the consequences of marrying your colleague, so ya just gotta deal with it.
It wasn't as emotionally stressful as I thought it would be. Both of us managed to keep it professional the whole time. We kept our distance and I was able to maintain my detachment. Only talk about work. Our interactions were limited to "can you pass me this/that?" "I will work on this/that" and replies were mostly short: yes/no/okay. I felt good with the project despite having my W next to me. I was able to stay focus, lead well, and deal with the issues that came up (with the help of my team). I am proud of how I handled everything overall.
During lunch time, we went out with the team. We joined in during conversations but we never directed or responded to each other's talk. Personally it was weird, but we blended in well. I don't think the other team members caught on or had any idea that the both of us are actually having a marital crisis.
The only mistake that I think I made was that I asked her if I could get her anything for lunch. Both of us were looking at the menu, she was next to me, and when I looked at her I felt the surging need to give my care. I felt that I should at least offer to pay for lunch. She replied with "No thanks, I can take care of myself". I had a slight feeling of disappointment but I tried not to get absorbed into it. I should know better to not to initiate.
Ever since I've started distancing myself and detaching, W seems to be more distant. I wonder if she is doing the same thing: Is she is detaching herself in response to my own detachment? She hasn't initiated anything (apart from work) and she has shown no sign of remorse. I can feel the anxiety is starting to creep in, and I am starting to doubt myself. I don't know.
The roller coaster ride is real. At work and around people, I feel good, I am my own man, detached. On my own, I start to wane from my detachment. I read that DB is trial and error: do the things that work, and stop doing what doesn't. I can't tell if I am heading in the right direction, especially when W is getting distant. Should I continue my course of action? Or do I need a dose of 2x4s lol
God, this is frustrating.
It really is a roller coaster ride right now. One moment I am fine, and then next I get stuck thinking about W. In fact, I just just got back from GAL-ing, having the time of my life, and now one hour later here I am typing this.
I keep obsessing over if W has a potential A. I've pretty much accepted my circumstance, accepted the possibility of D, but the anxiety of not knowing if there is a AP is what I have to deal right now.
AnotherStander is a very wise poster here and he says there are two kinds of sitches: those that involve another person, and those that haven't found out yet that there is another person.
Ever since I read this, it has been playing at the back of my mind and kept triggering my anxiety and obsessive side.
Is there an A? Who could it be? How could it happen? When? Just the thought of another man touching my W and saying sweet words into her ears.. JUST.. ARGH.
I do not think there is one. At the same time, who am I to say, I do not know any better. It's making me crazy.
I keep thinking back of the things she said during BD. That she doesn't want to be married with me, she wants to be single again, to be free and be able see to her family and bestfriend everyday.
W wants to leave me because clearly
she chooses me over something. What is that
something?
Either what she said was true i.e. bestfriend and family > me.
Or
She was lying i.e. OM > me.
I know these thoughts are detrimental to my DB-ing. I'm sorry if all of this makes me sound like a over-possessive controlling person. I just can't shake these thoughts. I need to be hit by big 2x4s right now.
I know these thoughts are detrimental to my DB-ing. I'm sorry if all of this makes me sound like a over-possessive controlling person. I just can't shake these thoughts. I need to be hit by big 2x4s right now.
You are letting your thoughts control you. Part of this process is to learn to control your thoughts.
List out as many of these as possible and be as explicit as possible:
What new behavior are you exhibiting that is attractive to women in general?
What old behaviors have you stopped that is unattractive to women in general?
What new attractive traits do you want to incorporate into your new normal?
What old unattractive traits do you still need to stop doing?
How do you know when you are ready for a D?
I feel so tired.
I know these thoughts are detrimental to my DB-ing. I'm sorry if all of this makes me sound like a over-possessive controlling person. I just can't shake these thoughts. I need to be hit by big 2x4s right now.
You are letting your thoughts control you. Part of this process is to learn to control your thoughts.
List out as many of these as possible and be as explicit as possible:
What new behavior are you exhibiting that is attractive to women in general?
What old behaviors have you stopped that is unattractive to women in general?
What new attractive traits do you want to incorporate into your new normal?
What old unattractive traits do you still need to stop doing?
Thanks for the response R2C, I will reply to this when I can.
How do you know when you are ready for a D?
I feel so tired.
That's kind of like asking how you know when to stop eating. Only you know when you've had enough.
That's kind of like asking how you know when to stop eating. Only you know when you've had enough.
And you might get hungry again. That is OK.
Things are much harder with kids. You do not have kids together. Things are much harder when financial things are all mingled. Did you have lots of assets that need splitting? It seems to me that you did not have enough time together to get things all blended together.
If I found out my W was being intimate with another man, that is when I would file for D. That is my boundary.
If she came to me and said she no longer wanted to be with me, I would have to think about that.
That's kind of like asking how you know when to stop eating. Only you know when you've had enough.
And you might get hungry again. That is OK.
I've been contemplating on getting D lately. I've been going back and forth between "alright, it's time, you can let her go funbun, you'll be fine" and "no, maybe I am being impatient, it's only been 3 months, maybe I shouldn't be so impulsive and wait".
Like many, I've always wanted to be married. I want to have my own family. To have a loving wife. Not like this. Who in their right mind would ask for a divorce just a few days after the wedding? That is crazy. I've sacrificed all that I have to be with her, but somewhere down the line, something went wrong. Is is my fault? Is it hers? Does it even matter? At the moment, W is an obstacle to that dream. I deserve better. I owe it to myself to make sure I fulfill my dream. It is W's decision to be part of that or not. I do not control her. All that matters is that, I should stop at nothing in order to achieve what I've always wanted.
On the other hand, I can't help but feel like I am being played right into her hands. She is playing the waiting game hoping that I would give up and be the one to initiate D. Now that I think about it, all she ever did was say hurtful things to me and gave me the cold shoulder, and in that hurt I was the one who took action:
During the honeymoon, when she was BD-ing and crying non-stop and refuse to make the decision to go back home, who was it that made that decision for her? Me.
In Jan, she was acting up and saying hurtful things to me, who was it that decided to live separately and pack all the things? Me.
Now, she has gone dark, and I am too tired, and I want to move on, am I going to be the one to finally end it?
She has done nothing but talk. I was the one foolish enough to take action.
Things are much harder with kids. You do not have kids together. Things are much harder when financial things are all mingled. Did you have lots of assets that need splitting? It seems to me that you did not have enough time together to get things all blended together.
No, there are no assets shared between us. We are not bound together by anything except for our vows. Yes, you could say, getting a D would be easy at the stage I am in. W certainly thinks so. I think my sitch is unique with respect to this. However, I could also argue that the chances for R is lower because of how easy it is break off the marriage. It is like an uphill battle but the hill is covered with butter.
I am sorry if I sound bitter and angry. I've been tired and wanted to get all these thoughts out. This is the only place I can go to.
I've been trying to stay away from this site and just live my life. Even though there are a lot of wisdom here and I can learn a lot from reading everyone else's posts, it doesn't help in getting my mind off of W. I need to work on detachment after all.
funbun, as always it is completely up to you. I do not think anyone would blame you for moving on. Personally, if I got BD'd on my honeymoon, I'd have called a lawyer and filed the minute my plane landed on our return. But that is just me. I know I've told you before, but she did you a favor. If she had stuck it out for any considerable length of time (think 5+ years) then things could have become much more complex (house, finances, children, etc). The earlier the better. I know it was hard and heartbreaking, I am not trying to minimize your pain. But one day you will look back and realize that she did you a huge favor.
Steve, this particular sentence I find difficult to accept. Probably because there is truth in it or.. I don't know. It implies that I was wrong in marrying her and that she did the right thing. That I was the foolish one to fantasize and commit to a marriage with her. Meanwhile she spent 5 days as a W and then for god knows what reason decided to bail out without even putting much effort into the M. Without even giving the M a good chance. I don't know, I need to reflect more on this. Probably the ego talking here.
Steve, this particular sentence I find difficult to accept. Probably because there is truth in it or.. I don't know. It implies that I was wrong in marrying her and that she did the right thing. That I was the foolish one to fantasize and commit to a marriage with her. Meanwhile she spent 5 days as a W and then for god knows what reason decided to bail out without even putting much effort into the M. Without even giving the M a good chance. I don't know, I need to reflect more on this. Probably the ego talking here.
Please note, what I meant by that was that it was 5 days, not 5 years. I feel my W should never have married me, that she settled for me, and that I have been through 2 sitches DUE to that. One 6 1/2 years in. Another 18 1/2 years in. In both of this sitches I would have gladly changed places with you. Not that your sitch was without pain, but as I said the earlier the better.
She did the wrong thing, let's be clear. She should have never agreed to marry you. I have a friend that pulled the plug on his wedding 5 weeks before it was scheduled. People were angry with him. His no longer future bride was angry and hurt. But guess what, he did the right thing by not going through with it.
funbun one of the things I learned the hard way, through a very long on again, off again relationship many years ago, and then dating and marrying my W, is that I had it all wrong. I always looked for someone that I was crazy about. I am now old enough and wise enough to know that what I should have been looking for is someone that was crazy about me.
Okay Steve, I do see your point. Thanks.
It's time for me to admit and accept that W wasn't a good fit for me. Before R, when we were friends, she was attractive and charming. I fell for her. However, when we were a couple, to be honest I was unhappy. For some reason (I suspect intimacy issues stemming from her relationship with her parents), she couldn't fulfill my emotional needs and kept dismissing it whenever I try to bring it up. It went on for a very long time and I held on. It's rather amazing that I stayed for that long even though I was unhappy. I chased. She pushed me away. I chase harder. I kept on believing. Hoping that once we're married, whatever barrier that kept her from giving me what I needed would be resolved and finally.. finally.. I will be happy. I was delusional. I put her up on a pedestal. She was everything to me but she couldn't reciprocate the same feeling. Often times I feel like I was not her priority.
If only I've known better.
I'm going to spend the next couple of days reflecting. Build my strength and my resolve. Decide on a plan.
Maybe this is it. Maybe it's time to let go.
I deserve better. I want to be happy.
I deserve happiness.
funbun one of the things I learned the hard way, through a very long on again, off again relationship many years ago, and then dating and marrying my W, is that I had it all wrong. I always looked for someone that I was crazy about. I am now old enough and wise enough to know that what I should have been looking for is someone that was crazy about me.
This is my lesson right now. I will keep this in mind.
Do not put your happiness into someone else hands. This is an internal thing that you need to find. The healthier you are before getting into a relationship, the healthier the relationship will be. The healthier you are, the higher quality people you attract into your life.
There is no rush here. Focus on you and your growth right now. Find happiness without her. Your relationship may have run it's course, or it may resume in a healthier form in the future.
My lady is crazy about me....that could change tomorrow. I do my best to fill her love bucket. Sometimes that means I give her some space to miss me.
Do not put your happiness into someone else hands. This is an internal thing that you need to find. The healthier you are before getting into a relationship, the healthier the relationship will be. The healthier you are, the higher quality people you attract into your life.
There is no rush here. Focus on you and your growth right now. Find happiness without her. Your relationship may have run it's course, or it may resume in a healthier form in the future.
My lady is crazy about me....that could change tomorrow. I do my best to fill her love bucket. Sometimes that means I give her some space to miss me.
Good stuff from R2C as always. Really my point is that if you have to beg, plead and be persistent to get someone to date or be romantic with you, then you are likely going to have an uphill struggle for the entirety of your R with them.
Do not put your happiness into someone else hands. This is an internal thing that you need to find. The healthier you are before getting into a relationship, the healthier the relationship will be. The healthier you are, the higher quality people you attract into your life.
R2C, I know that this is the case for me from the start. However, knowing about it is different than truly understanding what you have said here. I believe it is beginning to sink in. It’s time to accept certain truths and internalize the lessons that come with it.
I have been unhappy for a while. I am unhappy now. I was unhappy before the wedding. Heck, I was unhappy when I was with my ex-gf. I’ve always felt unfulfilled. I always wanted more. I left ex-gf for now-W because of that. I left her believing that I will find happiness with now-W. I left a good woman in search for something better. I was greedy. I formed a R with now-W out of that greed couple with guilt from leaving a perfectly good R with ex-gf. I became anxious, needy and demanding. That was unfair on now-W. I see that now. She has her own issues of course, but I have mine, and I will own and take responsibility for my issues.
There is no rush here. Focus on you and your growth right now. Find happiness without her. Your relationship may have run it's course, or it may resume in a healthier form in the future.
I agree. I have all the time in the world right now. There is no rush. I need to heal and to grow. To find happiness in myself. To find gratitude and self love. I think the best way to do that is for me to be on my own. I don’t think I can do that while still in this sitch. I need to learn to be comfortable on my own and not depend on others for happiness.
I have a fear of being alone. I’ve always pursue other people’s acceptance and acknowledgement. That has lead to me turning to a people pleaser. Sometimes to the detriment to my own self. I need to work on this too. Anyone here can recommend books on self love? Perhaps an audiobook, because I don’t really have the time to read nowadays and I like to fill in my long drives to work by listening to Audible.
I attended W's sister's wedding today.
I came out of a feeling of obligation to W's family. I know the vets have advised me to not go. Her family have been nice to me and insisted (nicely) that I should attend. I figured I come, be cordial, help out, and play "family" one last time before the time for D arrives (they do not know my plan to D).
Mostly kept my distance from W during the event. There were a lot of things that reminded me of the life that I won't have. It was tough to be honest. I see why the vets advised not to go. It hurts, but I managed to withstand it and smile through it all.
Towards the end, I approached W (stupid move? Maybe) and talked to her:
Me: "Hello, how are you?"
W: "I am okay"
Me: "Your family has been good to me"
W: "Yes they have"
W: "Do not talk to them about us, do not give them hope"
Me: "I didn't tell them anything about us"
W: "I need to talk to you soon, I don't like things to be hanging like this"
Me: "Yes I also have something that I have to talk to you about" (referring to my plan to D)
Me: "okay, I have to go now" (then I left)
She was cold and distant. When she mentioned to "not give them hope" and "I need to talk to you soon", it sounded like she wants to end things soon too. Even though I have the same intention, it still hurts. I guess I am not really detached yet. Even though I was hurting inside, I was able to keep a straight face throughout the conversation.
Was it wise for me to talk to her? I don't know. I do know I was doing a temp check. For one last time, just to be sure, to remind myself, she isn't worth the trouble.
I guess this is it. We will probably have this talk sometime next week.
I need advice on how to approach this and the code of conduct when it comes to having a D talk.
Her parents doesn't know it yet, but I know they will be devastated if they do, any advice on how to handle them is also very appreciated.
First, we advised you not to go because this set your detachment back. Recognizing you are still attached, can you honestly say going made you less attached?
Second, why do you need to have a D talk. You go file. She will be served with papers. Your sitch includes no children, hardly any intertwining of lives. Just go file. The only reason you'd have a D talk is hoping that she'd change her mind. That is attachment. REMEMBER: ACTIONS not WORDS.
On her parents handling...YOU DON'T. They are her parents. As I told you before, no matter how good they'e been to you, they are her family. Once you are D'd and moved on you will have little to no contact with them. Which is another reason we advised you to not go to her sister's wedding.
I know this next step is difficult. But you've done all you can do. If you are ready to take that step, take itit. Don't talk to her about it. If you aren't, then continue to be patient. But again, don't talk to her about it.
Hang in there man, you have a lot of good things ahead of you! One day, believe it or not, this will be a blip on the radar screen.
As far as your behavior:
Talking = Bad
Actions = Good
I'm going to join the chorus and say that you don't talk, you act. If you feel the need to talk, you aren't ready to be divorced.
I have been unhappy for a while. I am unhappy now. I was unhappy before the wedding. Heck, I was unhappy when I was with my ex-gf. I’ve always felt unfulfilled. I always wanted more. I left ex-gf for now-W because of that. I left her believing that I will find happiness with now-W. I left a good woman in search for something better. I was greedy. I formed a R with now-W out of that greed couple with guilt from leaving a perfectly good R with ex-gf. I became anxious, needy and demanding. That was unfair on now-W. I see that now. She has her own issues of course, but I have mine, and I will own and take responsibility for my issues.
If you go through with the divorce, you should tell this other gal this. But not until you're in a better place.
Even though I have the same intention, it still hurts.
[censored] to hear that. You will perservere.
Action, action, and action. Got it. Thanks everyone.
I hope I have the strength to carry this one through till the end. It's heavy, but it's for the best.
You can do this funbun.
The divorce process is different in my country. Both S have to be present to file for D and before it can proceed, the couple have to go through a few sessions of MC.
I texted W to come to the courts tomorrow to sort it out.
But she said she wants to sit down with me and have a talk first. At first I didn't want to, but a friend of mine advised me to agree to it and have one final talk to see how it goes. So that I won't have any regrets and actually tried to listen to what W has to say before proceeding to D.
I agreed. W and I will be meeting tomorrow.
Any advice as to what to expect and how to handle it?
Should I just listen and validate? Or should I talk about my thoughts and let everything out (my pain, my expectations, etc) for this final talk?
I'm against the meeting, I think you were right to meet her at the court with the intention to file. There would be time to talk during the mandated MC sessions.
What purpose couldn this final talk have besides her making a bunch of demands she has no right to make.
Thanks Steve. I sort of took your advice and my friend's, and decided to do a mix of both. I cancelled my meet-up with W. But I don't want to regret not saying what I needed to say so we texted instead.
I figured if I talk with her in person, it would hurt me and make it harder for me to detach and follow through with D. So at least, via texting, I can read and "listen" and be as composed as I can.
I want to let her know that I tried to make things better, made attempts to approach her, and that she was the one that pushed me away. I said "I believe in working things out. But from my point of view, you are very sure of leaving and have not made any attempts in making things better. Since you really want to get out of the marriage, it is not wise for me to hold you any longer and prolong the pain to ourselves and everyone around us".
I mentioned those things so that she wouldn't use the "you didn't even do anything to save the marriage" defense. In her family's point of view, I simply did nothing to improve my sitch (they wanted me to convince W to stay). In truth, I was DB-ing, they didn't understand that. So I mentioned the above, so that I would protect myself from any more blame.
W talked about how we were having problems from Week 1 and how everything went downhill from there. [She was the one that dragged everything down with her / pushed everything away so it baffles me how she doesn't see herself as the root cause of it]
W talked about believing in God's plans. Something along the lines of if it is not in God's plans for her to be happy in this marriage, then she rather be single and sad and miserable. [She believed in God's Plan when she was having doubts pre-M and married me anyways, and now she has the same mindset in getting out of M too]
W mentioned she truly believes that this M does not and will not work.
Then we talked about our families and how they have been pushing the both of us to R. W talked about how it has been hard on her. I tried my best to validate:
W: "everyone's thinking about everyone's sake. But the ones who will truly suffer will be us two and especially me. Things will not be good emotionally and mentally if I had to stay in this M".
F: "You don't think this marriage is good for you. And you are suffering right now. I can see that"
W: "Yes but everyone somehow still refuses to accept that"
F: "At least, I already am. I accept that you are suffering from this. And that I should let you go"
W: "Thank you"
Then we talked about how to proceed with the D. I suggested to go through the MC first, then breaking the news to the parents and then finally proceeding to D. She wanted for everyone to talk first (Me, W, both parents) before doing anything. I said "I understand that you need to think about it first. Let me know when you have decided" and ended the convo there.
So, there it is. She's convinced that this M is not worth saving. I do not understand what made her so sure of that when we only had 4 normal days of marriage together. She didn't even try. Sigh. I am really hurt when she said all that, but at least now I know that with the way that she is right now, she is a lost cause.
I am deeply hurt but I am even more convinced that she should be let go.
God, please give me strength.
Yep, I figured she wanted to do all of this on her terms.
"She wanted for everyone to talk first (Me, W, both parents) before doing anything."
I am opposed to this.
"I feel it would be better if you handled your parents and I handled mine."
She is wanting your protection from her parents. That this is a mutual decision. I wouldn't provide that to her. This is her path. Her decision. She needs to feel the consequences for her own actions.
This is what I would do:
1) I'd go talk to my parents. Tell them bluntly everything that has happened. The simple truth. That you tried everything you could think of. You even honored her request to give her time and space.
2) I'd let her know that you will not be talking to her parents. That she is on her own to handle telling them.
3) I'd arrange a time in the next 2 weeks to meet at the courthouse with your WAW to file for D.
Remember, even though you've made the decision to file for D doesn't mean you are done DBing! DBing continues even after D! D is not an end, it is a step in the process. Many here have D'd and gone on to an awesome life without their WAS. Others have D only to have their WAS come back and want to R. Always be DBin!
Thank you for always being here Steve. Your advice has always helped me to refocus.
W and I text slightly more frequently for the past three days. Mostly on divorce proceedings.
She's a lot more calmer now and... respectful.
She texted my parents, saying goodbyes, apologizing, and thanking them. She texted me saying that once D is final, she won't say anything bad about me and will respect my wishes. I stated my boundaries and my conditions and she has respectfully complied to them all.
Now I can't help but empathize with her. I can't help but think that she has suffered too. The cold hard woman for the past three months has gone and now I can only see a woman that has gone through a lot of pain and wants her peace.
I am not as angry (well maybe a little) anymore. I just feel sad. Despite what she did, I still love her.
I feel sad that I will lose this woman. I was expecting her to be angry cold hateful throughout all of this, but this.. she's just another human being that is in pain. It's making the path to D a lot more difficult.
But I do know that I cannot make her suffer any longer. I have to let her go. If this is what they meant by "letting go with love" then this must be it.
I am sad that she has suffered a lot and I am sad she is going to go away.
OR I am probably delusional again, and this is some sort of emotional side-effect of D. Am I being too soft on her?
Has anyone gone through a similar thing? Any comment is very much appreciated.
I think you're going through something normal. A lot of people hold on to their resentment (of their spouse leaving) to the point where they never see it through the WAS's eyes. Process your feelings and thoughts on this situation and then move your mind to the next moment of your day with strength and commitment to the task at hand. You'll make it through this just fine.
I will say that I hope you are keeping your comms with her strictly business.
Thanks ovr.
Yes, the texts are all business. I am still upholding the DB principles as best as I can on this path to D (and also after).
I read in your sitch and many others that the WS had doubts with their AP after a while. I think my W is different in that I don’t think there is an A, and she seemed very sure and determined to leave this M because she no longer has feelings for me and staying would be miserable for everyone. She has never shown any hint of doubt. If she firmly believes in the morality of her decision then I don’t think any amount of persuading and waiting will make her change her mind. The right move is to let her go and let her live with her decision.
I need to move on, heal, and find my own happiness.
Sorry, what I should say was it was mostly business.
There was talk about sadness, pain, and family and most of it came from W. I validated as best as I can.
Update
We went to file the D papers yesterday (in my country both S must be present). The clerk there explained that we will be summoned to a court hearing sometime next week. They are going to call us to inform us of the date. The clerk also explained that W will need to give a valid reason during the hearing for her D request to be accepted. Otherwise, we will be sent to a 4-6 months marriage counselling. Unless, the H (me) willingly agrees to D.
Let me clarify that under Islamic law and in this country, there needs to be a valid and strong reason for D to happen e.g. abuse, not fulfilling marital duties, long time absence, etc. Islam is also a religion that is pro-marriage, and hence the law requires a couple to go through counselling first before anything. Furthermore, and I mentioned this before, the H holds a lot of say when it comes to D.
W certainly does not have a strong case to make her D request be accepted. In the eyes of the islamic law, wanting a divorce just because you "don't feel it" anymore is not a strong reason and it is advised for the couple to do whatever that is necessary to make amends (MC). Furthermore, as a husband, I have been very loving and have done nothing wrong. So, no strong case can be made against me. W was not happy when all of this was explained to her lol (and yes, inside, I did take a bit of enjoyment and self-satisfaction from her disappointment, I am no angel lol)
So, it all comes down to what I'll say during the hearing. If I talk truthfully and honestly, then the judge would declare the D request to be forced then we would be sent to 6 months of MC. That would be agonizing for W. In order for the D to follow through, I would have to cooperate with W and say that I agree to the D in a convincing manner.
Regardless, I will make sure that the D process goes smoothly. I will cooperate. I know I should not make W suffer any longer. Or myself for that matter.
It's just.. sigh.. I want to be happily married. W was supposed to be the one. Why did it come to this. There is a part of me that is unwilling and it will take a lot of work (emotionally) to convince the judge. But I know, I KNOW, there's no use beating a dead horse. It's better to just let go and move on.
Sigh. God, please give me strength.
"Yes your honor, I willing accept this divorce."
Short, sweet. And truthful.
Notice it doesn't say you want it. It just says you accept it
You're right, holding it up will accomplish nothing.
Hi FB,
Your English is very good. Is English your native language? Will the court be held in English or a different language?
Actually, now that I think about it, it’s actually a non-issue.
Emotions got the better of me I suppose.
As always, thanks Steve.
Ah *blush* thanks for saying that R2C. That makes my day better
English is my second language. The court hearing will be held in my native language, and it’s no big deal.
I wish I can tell you what language it is, but you know, can’t reveal too much info here.
Glad to see you are in a better place. Remember, if she ever decides she wants to R, getting D'd will not prevent that. However, you may be completely moved on by then.
JournalingI am at a good place right now. Feeling at peace.
I've decided to take things slow. I thought about how busy I was for the past three years: work projects and wedding preparations. It's time I take a break from all of it. 2020 is the year for me to just chill. There is no rush, nothing to chase. I work on myself and find things that make me happy. At my own pace. I realized that I have done a lot of good work in those three years; I successfully completed all projects, and have proven to be a loving husband. I have nothing more to prove to anyone. Time to give myself some me-time.
I learned that gratitude and appreciation are key tenets to happiness. So I will start listing down three things that I appreciate and grateful for, on a daily basis. Starting today:
(1) Had a karaoke session with friends yesterday. That was a good stress relief.
(2) It's a lot quieter at work. Most of my colleagues are working at home because of the virus. W is also not at work, she is taking a two weeks leave. Out of sight, out of mind. Everything is at a slow and relaxed pace. No immediate deadlines. I can do work peacefully.
(3) Went out for breakfast with colleagues. Had a good 1 hour chat with them. Productive? No. Enjoyable? Yes. lol.
Our wedding photographer contacted me yesterday. He said our wedding photo album should be done and delivered by next month. I don't know what I'll do with the album. Saw the preview photos though, they were nice.
That's all for today
JournalingThings I appreciate or bring happiness:
(1) Off work today. A lot of free time. I basically slept the whole morning. Feeling refreshed. I'll just Netflix and chill the whole day.
(2) I ran for 3 km yesterday while listening to music. Some songs hit me hard in the feels, I ran faster. It's quite
therapeutic. I plan to run regularly, probably twice a week. My go-to gym is closed so running is a good substitute for working out. Need to let a bit of sweat out to get them endorphins up.
(3) Most of my family members are working at home because of the pandemic. The virus situation $ucks but I'm glad they are here. I'm less lonely.
Since a lot of places are closed off nowadays, I go to YouTube, make sure I learn something daily. Last night I watched a video on the Art of War and how it can be applied to daily life. Two principles that caught my attention:
(1) Do not ignore the signs for war = red flags in the R.
(2) Pick your battles - learn to rest and fight battles you prepared for and have a higher chances of wining. NC with W on days I am tired, do not meet unless I am ready, and make sure to have a plan when I do contact W.
I'm pretty sure you can extract even deeper interpretations for these principles, but no time for that, gotta shower and start my day.
Carpe Diem
JournalingThings I appreciate or bring happiness today:
(1) With the pandemic going on and everyone staying away from each other, my workplace is looking for ways to do everything online. Had a good discussion with colleagues looking into the various virtual meeting softwares. Always feels good to learn something new.
(2) Long weekend ahead; Monday will be a public holiday. I don't have anything planned yet, but just the thought of having the free time and freedom makes me happy
(3) Also, looking forward to not having to waking up early for work
Hello DB Forum,
W texted me yesterday informing that the court hearing will be pushed to a later date because the courts are closed at the moment due to the pandemic. It might take months.
I don't know how to feel after knowing that. A part of me is relieved and hoped that the extra time will perhaps make W turnaround. The other part of me feels disappointed and frustrated with the fact that I have to deal with this even longer.
Whilst thinking about it, I recalled W saying that she believed in "God's plan" and that she would leave her fate to god as one of her arguments for getting out of M. I wanted to take a jab at her "if this is what god has decided for me, then so be it" argument. So shortly after I replied with:
FB: It's going to take months... I was thinking to myself, if God decided that D is the best for both us, then why would He be delaying it?
W: Please don't dwell on that much because my decision is set. I take this as another obstacle for me, but I am strong and I am set.
FB: I see. It's unfortunate we cannot settle this soon. I hoped it won't add stress to the both of us.
-Conversation ended-
I wanted to know how she would respond to my rebuttal to her argument. Not surprised that she'd just dismissed her argument.
Thinking back, that was an unnecessary action on my part. Should've just replied "Noted". Gah.
Anyways,
Things I appreciate or bring happiness today:
(1) I have two cats that always come by outside the house. I go out, sit by the porch, the cats sit next to me, and I pet them while looking at the clear blue sky. It's nice.
(2) No work today. Woohoo!
(3) Played a video game with my little brother. He's 8 years old. That was fun.
Hello DB Forum,
W texted me yesterday informing that the court hearing will be pushed to a later date because the courts are closed at the moment due to the pandemic. It might take months.
I don't know how to feel after knowing that. A part of me is relieved and hoped that the extra time will perhaps make W turnaround. The other part of me feels disappointed and frustrated with the fact that I have to deal with this even longer.
Whilst thinking about it, I recalled W saying that she believed in "God's plan" and that she would leave her fate to god as one of her arguments for getting out of M. I wanted to take a jab at her "if this is what god has decided for me, then so be it" argument. So shortly after I replied with:
FB: It's going to take months... I was thinking to myself, if God decided that D is the best for both us, then why would He be delaying it?
W: Please don't dwell on that much because my decision is set. I take this as another obstacle for me, but I am strong and I am set.
FB: I see. It's unfortunate we cannot settle this soon. I hoped it won't add stress to the both of us.
-Conversation ended-
I wanted to know how she would respond to my rebuttal to her argument. Not surprised that she'd just dismissed her argument.
Thinking back, that was an unnecessary action on my part. Should've just replied "Noted". Gah.
Anyways,
Things I appreciate or bring happiness today:
(1) I have two cats that always come by outside the house. I go out, sit by the porch, the cats sit next to me, and I pet them while looking at the clear blue sky. It's nice.
(2) No work today. Woohoo!
(3) Played a video game with my little brother. He's 8 years old. That was fun.
I liked your happiness list!!!! I need to try something similar. I as well had a convo with ex that I probably would have been better off not having. But, today is a new day. A new day NOT to engage. Let them feel our loss.
Look at the court delay as more time to focus on you. Nothing really has changed. True D has gotten pushed to the background for now but really nothing has changed. You have the gift of time to let her br free and miss you. Try not to argue her reasons for D... that just makes her defensive.
Good Luck
Hi KC! Thanks for stopping by my thread!
I liked your happiness list!!!! I need to try something similar
You should. You can just do it as a mental exersize but I find typing it down allow me to really engage the gratitude mindset and it has a better effect on me.
anddd here is today's list:
(1) I realized that I have been sleeping well for the past few days. A well rested body = better mood.
(2) No work again today, woohoo! Just lazing around the house.
(3) I used to edit videos for fun, then when I got into R with W, I stopped because I didn't have the time. I have started doing it again. Have a video project that is filling half of the free time that I have currently.
I as well had a convo with ex that I probably would have been better off not having. But, today is a new day. A new day NOT to engage. Let them feel our loss.
Very true KC. It's advice that I keep telling to myself as well. Though, I disengage so that I can free myself from the drama of my sitch and so that I can be happy. I don't concern that much whether my W is thinking about me / missing me / thinking about losing me.
Look at the court delay as more time to focus on you. Nothing really has changed. True D has gotten pushed to the background for now but really nothing has changed.... Try not to argue her reasons for D... that just makes her defensive.
Very true as well! Thanks for the reminder!
Sorry I haven't posted for a while.
I've been trying to stay off this site and just live my life.
A lot of things feel normalized now. I remember a couple of days ago when I decided to let go, I felt good, I was on a high. That emotion has settled down now and I am mostly feeling normal most days. It's not great all the time. It's not bad all the time. It's mostly just okay. That's life I guess.
Some things do trigger memories of W. I get waves of sadness from time to time, but eventually always managed to get out of that state and proceed on with my life.
Here are the things that I appreciate:
(1) The quiet and slow pace life.
(2) Working from home (means control over my time and activities).
(3) This site, a place for guidance and expressing my thoughts, when there was no one I can talk to here.
I do still find things to appreciate from time to time. I do think it helps me keep a positive mindset.
For the next part, I just want to journal something that I was thinking about for the past few days:
I happened upon an article talking about fear of intimacy a couple of days back. It hit me how the behaviour described in the article perfectly fits my W. It all makes sense now: the hot and cold treatment, the witholding of affection, her resistance to changes in life, her short-lived past relationships, the breakdown 5 days into the marriage. It makes perfect sense. She was just scared. Really scared of letting someone close and scared of being vulnerable. Being married must've been overwhelming and scary for her. I can't help but feel sorry for her. If only I knew she was going through.
I thought about talking to her about it (maybe through text or maybe by meeting up with her) but I kept stopping myself from doing so. I realized that I am beginning to take it as my problem while in truth it was her problem to own and sort out. I don't want to be the pursuer and I don't want to be the fixer. I am done with being those things. I should trust that she has the capacity to sort out her own issues. She has to go through the process on her own.
The most loving act I can do right now is to let her live her life and process her inner conflict.
"Let her be funbun. You need to focus on yourself" is what I kept telling myself.
Can’t sleep. Been awake for an hour thinking. Just gonna type some thoughts down:
Grieve is a part of the letting go process. When you let go, at the start you feel lighter, you feel free. A high. Over time, those good feel emotions settle down and you are facing a grounded reality. There are thoughts and feelings you need to process. Can’t ignore them. You need to address them. Some hard truths. But you need to face them regardless if you want to fully heal. This is where the grieve comes. It’s hard and it will take time.
But you do have time. Plenty of it. There is no rush. You take as long as you can. You don’t have to feel bad for slowly healing. Slow progress is still progress.
I am grateful that the court date has been push to months from now. Plenty of time to heal.
We can only control ourselves. We can not be tied to someone. Feel the freedom, feel its power. Then keep working on yourself. Today, tomorrow and after tomorrow. Repeat this each day.
Pacience needs time. Use that time wisely.
Keep DB fb
We can only control ourselves. We can not be tied to someone. Feel the freedom, feel its power. Then keep working on yourself. Today, tomorrow and after tomorrow. Repeat this each day.
Pacience needs time. Use that time wisely.
Keep DB fb
Thanks for your reply neffer, I appreciate you stopping by here.
I had several difficult days recently.
I couldn't take my mind off W and the waves of sadness are hitting more compared to before. Probably because of this pandemic and being indoors all the time.
As I mentioned last month that I just realized that W has strong signs of fear of intimacy. Hence, everything that has happened and her behaviour fits in that bill like 80% of the time. I have a feeling that she is not aware of it, or maybe she does deep down but refuses to face it. I have this strong urge to want to talk about it with her and make sure she is aware of it.
I have been fighting back this urge of course. Telling myself, it's none of my business and I should trust that she is capable of self reflection. This is more controlling behaviour and pursuit. I should focus on myself.
Yet, this thought is eating me inside and maybe I should just talk to her about it and be done with it. Let it out, ya know? So that these thoughts do not bother me anymore and I can let it go once it has been said and move on. What can go wrong?
And yes, I'll be honest, there is a part of me that hopes talking to her about this will somehow take her out of the her fog. I'll be lying if I said I am not.
Should I act on this impulse?
Has anyone done something similar before?
Is there a good way of doing it for the sake of clearing the mind and letting go?
I would appreciate the advice.
Hey funbun,
I would suggest to let her be. I am confident that you will come away disappointed and hurt by placing expectations of her snapping out of her fog. When you do things like that, you inevitably slow down the process.
It's like putting your hand in the fire. Every time you do it, you get burned and it leaves scars. Eventually you will learn not to put your hand in the fire.
Hang in there.
FB,
If you could use logic and reason with a WW then the divorce rate would be at about 10%.
Hi Funbun,
Should I act on this impulse?
No.
Has anyone done something similar before?
Yes, this is a common mistake.
Is there a good way of doing it for the sake of clearing the mind and letting go?
Since the goal is to clear your mind of her, instead of contact which will do the opposite, write out all those things you wish she'd done better such as confronting her fear of intimacy instead of rejecting on a piece of paper, then burn them one by one as you forgive her and say farewell.
Is there a good way of doing it for the sake of clearing the mind and letting go?
I would appreciate the advice.
Write everything out in a letter. Get everything you want to say to her in that leter. Take your time and do it right. When you are done read it from start for finish. Put in a safe place and wait a day. Then read it one last time. Burn it.
I would suggest to let her be. I am confident that you will come away disappointed and hurt by placing expectations of her snapping out of her fog. When you do things like that, you inevitably slow down the process.
If you could use logic and reason with a WW then the divorce rate would be at about 10%.
Thank you LITB and LH19. I needed that. Needed someone to snap me back whenever my anxiety and pursuer tendencies come kicking in. I am calmer now.
Since the goal is to clear your mind of her, instead of contact which will do the opposite, write out all those things you wish she'd done better such as confronting her fear of intimacy instead of rejecting on a piece of paper, then burn them one by one as you forgive her and say farewell.
Write everything out in a letter. Get everything you want to say to her in that leter. Take your time and do it right. When you are done read it from start for finish. Put in a safe place and wait a day. Then read it one last time. Burn it.
I remember my IC recommended me to write a letter. I have not gotten around to do it. Not much of a writer myself, but I see how this can help. Thank you for the suggestion. I am fine now. I will probably need it the next time around when things get difficult again.
I guess it's time for an update.
After one month of NC, W texted me earlier this week to inform me that her uncle passed away. I knew the man only for a short time but he was kind to me and made me feel like a part of the family when I was feeling lonely and rejected by W. The news was hard on me. I felt that I had to break NC and ask for a more detail. Our conversation was centred on the uncle and his passing. I managed to kept the texting brief because after a while I was sensing she's becoming disinterested and giving short replies. That was my cue to stop.
They held the funeral a few days ago. "Close family only, social distancing (Covid-19) measures" my W explained to me. I wasn't invited. I wish I could go, but I understand why I shouldn't. It doesn't bother me as much anymore.
Still waiting for the court date. Might take months depending on when this pandemic clears.
In the meantime, I'll focus on healing (allowing myself to grieve and being kind to myself) and focus on being a better man.
I truly believe that I'll be fine no matter the outcome.
Yes, I do backslide from time to time from sadness and anxiety. It's part of the process. As long as I know to pick myself up, I'll be alright.
Acceptance and letting go; keeping my options open. That means being okay with D but also at the same time having some hope that W will come back. The way back home is there if she ever decides to take it.
It's fasting season for us Muslims around the world. It's a good time for spiritual self-reflection and repentance. I am looking forward to the peace that it might bring.
That's all for now, until then, stay safe.
Journaling
Writing from work. Finished all my tasked earlier than expected and I have some free time right now. I figured I should come visit here and give an update.
Seeing a lot more better days recently. Work is good (adequate amount of workload). Kept doing things that I enjoy and learning new things to make myself a better person. All is well.
I do get bouts of grieve, but it doesn't hit as hard anymore. Time is working its magic on me, I believe.
I've been doing a lot of self-reflection. Particularly on the parts of me that I think contributed to the breakdown of my relationship. I have identified that I have several anxiety issues and also fear of abandonment. Those issues explained a lot of my needy and controlling behaviour during my time with W. It took a lot of thinking, reading, and listening to talks, for me to come to this point of realization. A part of me feel glad that now that I know what my inner demons are, I can effectively battle them.
Don't get me wrong, I am not putting the blame wholly on myself for my sitch. I think W played an even major role than I did into the demise of my marriage (70:30 split I am guessing lol). I said before that she has intimacy issues and has difficulty with giving affection. You can argue that her intimacy issues were what created my anxiety, but I understand that it's not productive to put blame on her. I accept that we are responsible for our own actions only and I will work on myself going forwards.
I want to write more, but that all the time I have right now, I gotta go.
Stay safe DB peeps.
You are growing. That is a good thing. Keep it up.
Everything happens for a reason. We all have issues that we need to address. We attract what we need into our life to help us. Fix it and you will attract healthier people into your life.
Why is this happening to me? What do I need to fix within myself?
Thanks R2C
You are growing. That is a good thing. Keep it up.
Everything happens for a reason. We all have issues that we need to address. We attract what we need into our life to help us. Fix it and you will attract healthier people into your life.
Why is this happening to me? What do I need to fix within myself?
In my readings, I learned that people that are attracted to an avoidant partner and stayed in such relationship often have intimacy issues of their own. We tolerate their distant and emotionally unavailable behaviour because we ourselves are afraid of someone getting close and we are comfortable with someone who kept their distance. I know that sound paradoxical, but it can be true. Why are we with this avoidant partner when we can be with someone warmer? Perhaps we too find that intimacy to be a terrifying thing, and someone who we can love at a distance, is more comfortable for us, despite craving for their attention.
"They are directly distant, while we are so by proxy"
I begin to realize that I tend to be emotionally closed-off around family and close friends. I am someone who doesn't open up easily and only does so to my partner. I am someone who does things to get attention but once I got it, I act like I don't care. I realize it's not intentional, it's second nature for me, and I do it without realizing. Some time in the past, perhaps in childhood, I developed an emotional wound that caused me to have underlying untrusting disposition towards others and decided to protect my sensitive heart. I realize that my path of healing involves tending to this emotional wound.
I can feel that my abandonment wound is bigger now thanks to W and I fear that I will become more emotionally distant. Actually, I feel I already am. Towards my family especially. I keep to myself more nowadays and act cold around them. I know they deserve better. I do not want to get hurt again, but also at the same time, I want to feel loved. I know I cannot get a loving fulfilling relationship with anyone with a closed off heart. I pray that I will find the courage to open my heart when needed.
I just did something difficult: I blocked W from my Social Media feed (she won't be notified of it, so she won't know)
Having a hard day today. I saw her at work from a distance, smiling with colleagues. Brought up a lot of bad feelings and I did everything I could to recover: read posts here, watch lectures on heartbreak, praying, etc.
Seeing her happy really did a number on me. Made me think about how perhaps she was right all along and I was in the wrong. After all, she is happier without me. Made me feel bad about being sad. I thought to myself, look how fast she moved on, and look at how lonely I am.
But these are self-defeating thoughts. She might look happy there, but who knows what goes on behind the scenes. Only she knows and it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whose right or wrong. It doesn't matter if I am slow at recovering. I am taking things slow, I am healing at my own pace.
What matters is my own peace of mind. My own healing. My own happiness.
Blocking her from SM was something that I wanted to do for a while, but I wasn't strong enough. I was still attached in that sense and my anxiety wanted me to check in on how she's doing. I know it's not healthy if I want to move on. I know that I have to let that attachment go.
And I finally did.
It was hard. It might sound silly to some but you have to understand that by doing this, I won't be able to know how she is doing, I am cutting off another significant string of connection to her. Another part of the relationship that I have to cut. But hopefully this will bring a bit of peace to my mind down the road.
I am upset. I remember LH19 said something about when we lose control, fear creeps in and we desperately look for any sort of stability. Hence, the LBS tend to come up with reasons to go to their WAS for comfort, which they won't get. I guess this is what this feeling is. I am upset and scared and I have to look for something to comfort me that is not my W. I am hoping writing this will help calm me down.
HUGS!!!!
That's a big step. It really shows you are truly focusing on what you need to recover. Its commendable. You have amazing thought process.
I am detecting that you want her to be unhappy. Do you love her? Love would demand that you what her to be happy, even if that means not being with you. I know that hurts, but try being happy that should looked happy.
Good job on the SM move. I am a hater of SM. To the point where I encourage LBS to get rid of it entirely. (And yes, I've heard all of the excuses for not doing that, but I haven't had SM in 11 years and some how I am very happy and fulfilled!). SM has a way of really keeping LBSs stuck. Most, without admitting it, use it to spy, even stalk, their WAS. If they were being honest with themselves, they'd admit that.
Even blocking her isn't perfect. You could always unblock her, even if only temporarily. Other people's feeds can cause your paths go cross. Etc. My advice? Stay away from SM as much as possible. Many people are addicted to it and can't admit that.
Also, congrats on coming here instead of to her. Now, you know what I am going to say, right? GET BUSY! The busy mind doesn't have time for all of this lover's lament crap. funbun, guess what, one day you won't even think about her. Hard to believe, isn't it? But it is true. I had a long on again off again relationship with a women years ago. In the midst of our break ups thoughts of her consumed almost every second of every day. Now there are months that go by where she never even crosses my mind. Look ahead......not back.
HUGS!!!!
That's a big step. It really shows you are truly focusing on what you need to recover. Its commendable. You have amazing thought process.
Thanks KC, sometime it's hard to know if I am doing the right thing or not.
I am detecting that you want her to be unhappy. Do you love her? Love would demand that you what her to be happy, even if that means not being with you. I know that hurts, but try being happy that should looked happy.
It does sound like that doesn't it. I guess that was the ego talking and getting hurt. I do love her. I do understand that ultimately, we are individuals looking for our own happiness. Sadly, she believes her happiness is not with me, and that's okay. It's sad, but it's okay. I will take time to find my own happiness. I plead God to guide me and I ask everyone here to guide me as well.
Good job on the SM move. I am a hater of SM. To the point where I encourage LBS to get rid of it entirely. (And yes, I've heard all of the excuses for not doing that, but I haven't had SM in 11 years and some how I am very happy and fulfilled!). SM has a way of really keeping LBSs stuck. Most, without admitting it, use it to spy, even stalk, their WAS. If they were being honest with themselves, they'd admit that.
Even blocking her isn't perfect. You could always unblock her, even if only temporarily. Other people's feeds can cause your paths go cross. Etc. My advice? Stay away from SM as much as possible. Many people are addicted to it and can't admit that.
I actually agree with you Steve on this one. SM can be poison sometimes. A place where people promote how good their life is while in reality it is not often the case behind the scenes. It's hard not to compare your life with theirs. When I see friends posting happy pictures spending time with their spouses and seeing all the cute baby pictures (God, I want to have children of my own too!). Made me think of what I don't have. But I know things aren't as rosy as what they are made to be.
Maybe one day, I will have the strength to let go of SM entirely. One step at a time.
A bit of an update of what's happening here.
The Muslims are celebrating Eid. That usually means a time to visit family and relatives (though limited nowadays because of the virus).
Eid is also a time of forgiveness. Traditionally family members would go to each other and ask for forgiveness for all their wrong doings. Even more so for spouses.
No word from W. I didn't expect much anyways. She did text my mother. Asking for forgiveness and how she's doing, etc. It's their relationship so I let them be.
I contemplated whether I should be the one to ask forgiveness first. Being the husband, there's is social expectation here of "the man should apologize first" and "to apologize first is an act of a noble man" kind of mentality. I decided not too. Not because out of bitterness, mind you. I think there is still a lot of hurt on her side and on mine. Apologizing now will feel forced and not honest. An apology should be asked when things are calmer and when the hurt is less. There is always next year.
I texted my parent-in-laws and gave them an Eid greeting out of respect.
Going to go out and visit relatives later. I haven't seen them since the wedding. Most of them do not know about my sitch. I'm sure they will notice W's absence and ask about her. Contemplated about not going entirely, but I think I will need this social interaction as a part of my GAL. If they ask for W, I'll just come up with an excuse or something.
Wedding photographer contacted us to inform the wedding photo album is ready for collection. I will meet up with him later in the day to get the album.
To be honest, I do not know if I want to keep the album. I paid good money for it so it would be a shame if I don't get at least one good look at it. But at the moment I do not want to keep it. Don't want to throw it away either; sentimental value.
I'll just keep it for a day and look at it once and then pass the album to W. She paid half of it after all. I'll let her know I can't keep it and it's up to her whether she wants to keep it or throw it away or burn it. Essentially, I am passing the burden of disposing the photo album to her. I don't think I have the heart to dispose of it myself.
My plan is to put the photo album on her desk at work with a note saying "I do not know what to do with the album. You can have it and you can do whatever you want with it".
Just wanna check if this is a good move on my part..?
I'd find a good fire pit.
I'll pass it to W, she'll burn it.
My plan is to put the photo album on her desk at work with a note saying "I do not know what to do with the album. You can have it and you can do whatever you want with it".
That sounds painful, an expensive memento of what was to symbolize happiness.
At least my photo album was terribly put together. Bad album. Bad marriage. My ex-wife gave me the album same as you are after I walked away. I put it in a box in the garage, figuring my kids may want to look at it someday. It's sat there for a decade. If I didn't have kids, I might have tossed it. I'm glad it's there. Someday I might incorporate it into an album of my life or my kids' life. It was a chapter of our lives.
"This is yours." says the same thing without the emoting.
Yeah, I wouldn't even open it before you leave it on her desk. No need reopen the wound.
Received a text from WAW this morning, she informed that we've been summoned to the court to discuss the divorce case. After a brief period of peaceful NC due to the pandemic, the gears are starting to turn again. The meeting will be at the end of this week. I'm guessing we'll be asked whether to proceed to the court hearing or to go through a period of MC first. I'll let her decide.
On a separate note, my birthday is coming up in a few days. Gonna spend the day going out on my own, buy myself a present, get a much needed massage, and watch the sunset and reflect on the journey that I am in.
Will WAW text me on my birthday? There a 80% chance she won't. I try not to put my expectations there.
I spent the past few weeks focusing on healing. A lot of alone time. A lot of reflecting, reading, watching motivational videos. It has done good on me. Slowly recovering and learning to enjoy the single life.
I wrote down a few goals for myself, I'll share them here:
- Work on anxious attachment
- Work on my fear of being alone and fear of abandonment
- Identify and reduce NGS behaviour and thought patterns
- Get assertiveness training
- Workout three times a week and lose weight
I know these goals have to be specific and time based. I'll amend them once I figure out exactly what I want.
That sounds painful, an expensive memento of what was to symbolize happiness.
Two weeks ago, I had to do the same with our wedding video. I meet with the wedding videographer, collected the USB drive, watch the video once (it was nice), and passed the USB drive to WAW via putting it on her desk with a note.
It was painful. A momentary sadness. But then you cry it out, and then life goes on.
I'm just proud of myself for not doing anything out of spite (trust me, oh boy, I wanted to) and kept the peace.
Received a text from WAW this morning, she informed that we've been summoned to the court to discuss the divorce case. After a brief period of peaceful NC due to the pandemic, the gears are starting to turn again. The meeting will be at the end of this week. I'm guessing we'll be asked whether to proceed to the court hearing or to go through a period of MC first. I'll let her decide.
On a separate note, my birthday is coming up in a few days. Gonna spend the day going out on my own, buy myself a present, get a much needed massage, and watch the sunset and reflect on the journey that I am in.
Will WAW text me on my birthday? There a 80% chance she won't. I try not to put my expectations there.
I spent the past few weeks focusing on healing. A lot of alone time. A lot of reflecting, reading, watching motivational videos. It has done good on me. Slowly recovering and learning to enjoy the single life.
I wrote down a few goals for myself, I'll share them here:
- Work on anxious attachment
- Work on my fear of being alone and fear of abandonment
- Identify and reduce NGS behaviour and thought patterns
- Get assertiveness training
- Workout three times a week and lose weight
I know these goals have to be specific and time based. I'll amend them once I figure out exactly what I want.
I like this.
As I tell a lot of LBSs, funbun: We live in an imperfect world. Disease, accident, murder, and people deciding to jettison us out of our lives means that we can have anyone removed from our lives, permanently, for many different reasons. Being overly attached, to the point where you cannot move on from such an event, is not a healthy place. This doesn't mean we won't be sad and mourn the loss, but it does mean that we continue living our awesome life despite these kinds of things happening in our world. So I like this. I know in these situations that things can be delayed due to working through the courts (pandemic didn't help), etc, but your goal is to come out the other side ready to live an awesome life! And you will if you do the things you are doing and planning on doing!
When life gives you lemons.....make lemonade!
I like this.
As I tell a lot of LBSs, funbun: We live in an imperfect world. Disease, accident, murder, and people deciding to jettison us out of our lives means that we can have anyone removed from our lives, permanently, for many different reasons. Being overly attached, to the point where you cannot move on from such an event, is not a healthy place. This doesn't mean we won't be sad and mourn the loss, but it does mean that we continue living our awesome life despite these kinds of things happening in our world. So I like this. I know in these situations that things can be delayed due to working through the courts (pandemic didn't help), etc, but your goal is to come out the other side ready to live an awesome life! And you will if you do the things you are doing and planning on doing!
When life gives you lemons.....make lemonade!
Thank you Steve.
Took a day off from work on my birthday and spent the time on my own, enjoying my own company. I had a pleasant day. WAW didn't wish me happy birthday, but I received a lot wishes from friends and colleagues. That was nice. It reminded me that I am loved.
But I'd like to believe that, even if no one wished me happy birthday on that day, I still be content with spending the day with myself. I am learning not to seek validation from others, only from myself.
The meeting will be at the end of this week. I'm guessing we'll be asked whether to proceed to the court hearing or to go through a period of MC first. I'll let her decide.
Currently mulling over what I've said here. I need input from the board.
The divorce case meeting will be tomorrow and how it will proceed will largely dependent on me. If the divorce request is uncontested, then we'll proceed straight to the court hearing and D will be finalized sooner. If it is contested, then we'll be sent to a round of MC, which lengthens the process to months, something WAW is not keen on doing. She doesn't want to suffer anymore.
I still feel conflicted. On one hand, I don't see prolonging this misery business any longer. WAW is absent in my life. I want to move on and find someone more deserving of my time and energy. On the other, my religion is against D and advise to do everything I can to save M, plus there is that sliver of hope in me that going to counseling will improve my R with WAW. However, I also know that WAW is reluctant on MC, and I've read multiple times on this board that MC with an unwilling spouse is often an unfruitful effort.
My current answer to this dilemma is to simply hand the decision to her, and then be at peace (or try to find peace) with whatever she has decided. She'll most likely want to D ASAP. It will hurt, but I will be okay knowing that I've done what I can and she's just not the right person for me. In the unlikely event that she chooses MC, that will be good and at least I know she wants to try.
My question is, does the fact that I am handing her the power to decide make me a pushover? Or should I be responsible and decide for myself?
Letting her decide is a bit weak. But so is contesting it. I'd go in and not contest, and be anxious to have it over.
If for some strange reason she has a moment of "I want to try", then you have a decision to make. Be warned, MC with an unwilling spouse is a punishment used in hell! I think you'd regret making that decision unless you knew pretty close to 100% that she was really going to try.
Personally, I'd cut bait and run.
Thanks for the input Steve. I’ll weigh it in. A part of me is saying the same things anyway.
This is uncomfortable. My anxious side is acting up. But I know I can manage it.
You can do this fb.
New Thread:
Newlywed and DB-ing (part 3)