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Posted By: IHCLACS Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 02/08/20 08:35 PM
Old thread https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...ain=62384&Number=2881869#Post2881869
Posted By: IHCLACS Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 02/08/20 08:37 PM
Sorry Cadet. I made a mistake. Can you change the title to part 6?

Posted By: IHCLACS Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 03/08/20 01:49 PM
Hey guys. I'm going to probably be moving my thread to the divorced section soon. XW and I are ramping up mediation and divorce this month.
Have had a lot of things here that I have been meaning to talk about and post the last month. Some moments, some internal realizations.

Most recent events Last Sat. I picked up S2. We've been having a lot of fun together. I've been hiking on my off weekends which has been clearing my head. Been on a few dates over the last 4 months. They are ok. Nothing serious. Platonic coffee dates. Just getting practice getting back into the game, and attraction.

So last week XW submitted all stuff to mediator. Cc'd me on it. Im still submitting and looking for L just for review. Been short but pleasant and co operative with XW. Went to pickup S2 last weekend. XW wanted to have discussion about D and mediator. I didn't want to get emotionally involved, but let her talk and express her thoughts about it. I was very cool and non chalant about how I handled the conversation. She said she was "A little sad and a little anxious about the finality of it all" So I kept my cool. She mentioned inviting me to a dinner about pre-mediation just to cover our basis. Validated how hard this is for everyone. It is what it is and things will get done in a fairly timely manner on my end since I'm involved with deceased Mom's estate silmultaneously. Been really good but really short with PMA in front of XW for last 8 months. NC other than talk of S2 or practical stuff. But in reality in my own head Ill go weeks or months being detached then fluctuating some days between saltiness, sadness and bitterness to then being fine with D and moving on with my life.

XW painted marital house over the weekend. So anyway. Over last weekend when I had S2. XW's comment " about the finality of it all" kind of got me miffed, a little attached, and a little and mildly agitated over the weekend I had S2 because its like I couldn't tell if she was just expressing her feelings or trying to rope me back in?†Internally my mind was screaming. "WELL WHAT AND HOW DID YOU EXPECT TO FEEL!? THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS IN DIVORCE!" I almost told her maybe you should save these conversations for your family members friends or therapists in the future?

So because my mind was on our interaction from Sat all weekend. Sun when I went to drop S2 off. I back slid from Sat. XW could tell I was a little irritated. I was also a little irritated because I'm attempting to quit smoking again. I kind of went off on her when she tried to rope me into another semi R convo about mediation. I said
"I just want to get this f*ckin done without being emotionally roped into any conversations and just want this to end so I can forget about the hurt and get on with my life!" That I know this has to get done, but can we just communicate about it through emails/mediator, and stick to discussions of S2, cause I didn't want to be constantly reminded, confused, emotionally involved etc. Myself, the mediator and XW have been CC'D on all communications, messages and intentions moving forward. So I didn't see the necessity to keep discussing "the plan going forward." Or why she wanted to bring it up? Just for confirmation we are on the same page?

I left in a pissy mood. Slammed my car door. Took off. Pounded the gear shifter. Stopped the car, backed up. Knocked on the XW's front door and apologized for my behavior. She validated me to a degree and invited me in to talk. But what actually wound up happening is she did all the talking again about herself, how much I hurt her, and how there are times she's good to go moving forward too like me at times, detached and ok with it all. And then there are times where she says there are reminders still all around the house of me, and it makes her a little sad. She was also going out of her way to convince me that she is not dating anyone, how she was always faithful, kind of threw in there "I'm not the one online dating" implying me, and how much she is still trying to get over the hurt that I've caused her in the past. Again just validated all of it. She kind of talked around about the things I knew about when I was snooping 10-12 months ago trying to convince me all these changes she's making is for her. Mentioned she's looking for work out of state again. I emphasised I want S2 within a 15 mile radius of where I'm living currently and want that in the parenting agreement. Left the convo with how I can't be friends with the same amount of hurt/trust issues as a result of her lifestyle changes, decisions, etc. That I'm not like her divorced relatives that are friends with their exes and bring they're new spouses to family affairs.

I picked up S2 Mon. I initiated another talk that I just want us both to grow from this experience, be happy, and healthy for S2. That I don't want to have to keep fluctuating between being
indifferent, and ok with D, between acceptance and denial in my own mind, and having to force myself to be bitter just to be able to fully let go at times. I just want to heal. I don't want to hate her. She is a really good person, a good mother, that just made some $hitty decisions and life choices.. But I'm sure we both have. I definately have. I don't want to ever want to be that person anymore, that is reactive to these bull$hit scenarios anymore, do what needs to be done and move on forever. I want to change. I want to be at peace. I want to have good coping skills and resolve again. I just want to rid myself of my own anger issues, fully shift my focus to our new lives, grow and learn from it and be the best version of ourselves. That I still don't respect a lot of her choices, but understand she has to do what she has to do to be happy and move on with her life as well. That I do respect her as a person, that she is putting herself first, and that there were a lot of good memories there, and I would like to move on keeping it that way remaining amicable but somewhat distant friends. (Really don't see the point lol...but it helps me dispel the anger saying that.) That said. I announced I was casually dating, which she figured from divorced brothers XGF who saw me online 1 year ago. Apparently they hang out every week now according to XW. I got some more stuff out of the atttic at her place. She asked me if I wanted the video from our first vacation together. I told her. Honestly I'm just going to put it in a box for the time being, (She said the same thing.) and I intentionally left it when I moved out 5 months ago. Told her to keep it in case S2 gets curious years later and wants to see it. She wants to have a dinner to go over all the D bull$hit. I wasn't fine with it at first because if there is something that needs to be debated or argued, I'm not getting roped into it. Just let the Lawyers and mediators handle any disagreements... But by Mon after our 2nd convo. I was a little more open to it for practicality reasons for saving $ and being billed hourly over things. I know this sounds crazy to most of you here but I have to be friends with my ex-wife if I'm ever going to respect her as a whole person, and if I'm ever going to look at her in a positive light as a good person. I can understand why she has made her choices that doesn't mean I have to like it. But I am doing this for me so I don't have to feel any anger anymore about the whole situation.

I was actually shocked in our conversation Mon. she showed some humility and accountability on her part this time. She realized how her communication patterns were very avoidant and stuffed down, and was afraid to talk to me. Even though she had some mentions of her disappointment in the M. She never fully expressed her needs appropriately, and we never fully focused on permanent solutions. Just temporary fixes. She said she needs to take more accountability and work on her communications.
That made me feel good hearing that. Sounds like therapy is going good for her. Because for an entire year and even last Sun. All I got was victim mentality of how I hurt her, but she was totally unaware or concerned how she was hurting me. There are no victims in this. Just S2 because he's a child and didn't ask for this. We are both guilty of making mistakes and having bad relationship patterns torwards the end.

For the life of me what I can't figure out sometimes is when we were first dating. We both intentionally focused a lot on good relationship habits, communication, etc. Even met John Gray and got a book autographed to the both of us by him... Its weird. We went from being single, to growing together exponentially and having so much in common. We used to respect each others boundaries, be on our best behavior, try harder for one another, teach each other things and grow. Be more thoughtful, kind, and considerate. Our actions used to match our words. We used to have a rule to never go to bed angry. I guess we stopped growing at one point and over the years it just dwindled. My frustration grew with her and within myself, and I need to heal that. My complacency grew as well as hers. From my perspective. We had a really beautiful relationship until the day we got married... Lol... Then the habits changed, the division of labor changed, the follow through of promises changed, etc..I miss those pre-marital days sometimes. They make me happy thinking about them. Post Marital stresses mixed in with other wonderful memories were well? A typical marriage lol...I'm sure at some point we both stopped growing as individuals and in the M. Time to grow again as a single person. I don't get sad very often anymore. But when I do now. It just quickly washes over me. Sometimes my sadness comes out in anger, but that is very far and few in between nowadays with the exception of last Sun.

I've been socially handicapped for the last couple of months due to all the life circumstances. But the feelings that I get living on my own I feel like I'm 12 years younger again sometimes in my mind. Being single and all exploring and growing and trying new things, the freedom is there but not like when I was 27. But that is just being an adult and father with less PD time and social time. The future is going to be fun, even when things don't go according to plan, even if I get disappointment after disappointment. I'm going to handle it and grow from it and look forward to the simple things.

So that's that. My M is going to be a wrap and Im not looking back. F*ck it! We both need to heal and grow. I decided to blow the bridge forever, let go of hope, the rope, and all else. But I figure if I was going to do it. Do it with love, clairty, resolve, and respect. Who knows what the future will bring. I'm looking more forward everyday to not only taking myself back from all this, but becoming more at peace with myself, trying on new things, new people, new places, and new mindsets. Ill keep you guys updated how everything turns out in the next few months.
Posted By: DS9 Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 03/09/20 06:15 AM
Big bro hug for you my db brother!

Iíll be back when I have some more time but just letting you know Iím thinking about you mate

Cheers DS
Posted By: IHCLACS Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 03/09/20 09:08 PM
Thanks DS9. What have you been up to? Anything good?
Posted By: IHCLACS Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 03/09/20 10:14 PM
This post is just for Wolf's $hit's and giggles..I was watching sick S2 today with diarrhea. We had a lot of fun today though. I picked him up early this morning and brought him back to my place, XW wanted to break my ball$ so I broke some back. Still had a few laughs out of it. XW has always had it in her head that I don't wash my hands enough and practice good hygiene, which nothing could be further from the truth. I am Mr. Compulsively hygienic and clean and wash my hands so much to the point that they crack and I always need Eucerin lotion everywhere I go.

XW: Please make sure you wash your hands, especially after changing S2's diapers today. It will help him to not have this reoccur.

XH: I have. I do. Maybe you should stop mothering me!

XW: Maybe you should stop being gross and start washing your hands.

XH: Make sure to mention that with your therapist they might be able to help you with that.

XW: Good call!

XH: I don't know WTF you are talking about and I don't have time for bull$hit. So rest assured I am an adult. I am wasing my hands. S2 is in good hands we are having fun and every hand/surface is Chloroxed, and being bleached.

XH: 😆 😁 HAVE A NICE DAY!

XW: I would tell you to have a nice day, but you will probably have a $hitty day,Ö pun intended💩💩💩 😷😳

XH:Ooohh.. Chocolatte bon bons. Thanks you shouldn't have...

XH: Got me some N95 masks too. $hit is selling like hotcakes.

XW: Ewww

XH: Ill save you some of S2's patee with some crackers later. 😝

XW: 🤢🤮

XH: All kidding aside. I understand your concerns and fears with pathogens and stuff with this Corona Virus and other stuff going around. I do wash my hands religiously whether you want to believe and trust in that or not. Just because I took a moment to use a wipe to clean butt cream ointment off my finger after changing S2 this morning doesn't mean I didn't wash my hands right after. You watched me wash them! I'm not going to leave him unattended on the table. I suit him up. Then wash my hands. I always do after a diaper change. So I don't know what you are talking about? Just because I don't do something when you expect me to doesn't mean I don't do it.

I understand you have a lot of fears that don't stack up with my reality and that's fine. Maybe therapy can help with that. I really don't take it too personally. But I would appreciate if you would stop sending me these type of bull$hit motherly fearful reminder texts to do XYZ when its a given of what I do as a parent, and put trust in that S2 is in good, secure, and capable hands. I know your concern is him first so I don't take it personal. My apartment and my habits are way cleaner than yours. Hello! Your talking to Mr. Compulsive Neat Freak here!
But the frequency of these type of reminders need to stop. It would mean a lot to me and I would really appreciate it if you can work on that, work through you're assumed fears and develop some trust.

XH: What I'm trying to say is. Its not how an ex treats another ex and not how a friend treats another friend.

XW: Point taken

XW: How is S2?

XH:He's great! He's playing were having lots of laughs. Eating blueberries and crackers. And he's even helping me mop the floor 😄 ( Sent pics of him mopping kitchen floor. He loves the mops.)

(Edited other parts of convo.)

XW: Any more diarrhea yet?

XH: HAHA. I literally just read this and heard a shart from across the room.😆

XW: 😳 Was it bad... as in, should i call out tomorrow?

XH: 🤮 ... Nah it wasn't that bad.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 03/09/20 10:37 PM
Hi Ihclacs,

Glad you're making a shift towards acceptance, too. You're starting to see the benefits of being single.

> XW: Please make sure you..
> XH: Maybe you should..
> XW: Maybe you should..
> XH: Make sure to..
> XH: these type of reminders need to stop

lol. Some clever exchanges, and a comedy of attempts by ex's to control each other. wink

I like that your XW keeps things cordial by changing subjects when things get heated: "XW: I would tell you to have a nice day, but you will probably have a $hitty day,Ö pun intended", and "XW: How is S2?"

Originally Posted by IHCLACS
I know this sounds crazy to most of you here but I have to be friends with my ex-wife if I'm ever going to respect her as a whole person, and if I'm ever going to look at her in a positive light as a good person.

PS - I don't know that one needs to be friends with their ex-wife. You know you, but I wouldn't describe my ex-wife as a friend. As with some business acquaintances, we have enough trust and communication to get our common work done. My assessment of her as a "good" or "bad" person is irrelevant.
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 03/09/20 10:47 PM
That was painful to read. Can you explain how this exchange is going to get you closer to friendship ??

And why do you have to be friends with her? I am civil with my ex and get along with him, but we are not friends. He would like to be my friend and so would his OWW, but I donít think friendship is necessary.

Really though. That exchange was not good. You joke, get offended, get wordy, get insulting. Her opening statement wasnít even bad. You could have sent a simple ďof course, like I always do. But you had to ramp her up and go all over the board from mean, not thinking you are joking, where you can see right through that, to becoming offended....

Seriously, you arenít going to get closer to civil/friendship, with that!
Posted By: Traveler Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 03/09/20 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by Ginger1
Seriously, you arenít going to get closer to civil/friendship, with that!

Agreed it would've been smoother without the "WT- you are talking about and I don't have time for -------" or two paragraph monologue, where XW changed subjects to keep things cordial.
Posted By: IHCLACS Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 03/10/20 03:42 AM
That's not heated that's bustin ball$ in my world. I don't think friendship is necessary either Ginger. Who needs a friend that was once a confidant, lover, and life companion that flew the coupe? I just try to keep that frame in my head so I can move on without hating her on occasion depending on which way my mind starts to go for the day. Its actually helping me a lot with detachment. Ginger another thing? I don't care how I come across to her... I could have cut down in the wording and be a little less mean... But then again.. I DON'T CARE! LOL.....I'm just tired of the f@cking nagging, stupid fear based controlling victim mentality. I'm not her H anymore, so I won't be bothered or nagged or reminded of common silly fear based things anymore....I endured that stupid accusation for 10 years amongst others, so it needs to stop. She knows I'm half joking half serious because she knows me she was after all married to me for 10 years. That aside I appreciate her concern for S2. I decided to have a little fun with it and really don't care what she thinks. She picked up S2 later and everything was fine. These dynamics were typical so? Im not looking to change them but eliminate them. I only put it up here for Wolf's amusement. Didn't leave it open for criticisms but I'm sure Im going to get it anyway. I stopped posting here for a reason because everything I write or share here is open to unwanted criticism. I stopped asking for help a long time ago. I just want to be single, have fun, improve and be me.

Posted By: DS9 Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 03/10/20 05:04 AM
Originally Posted by IHCLACS
Thanks DS9. What have you been up to? Anything good?


Hey buddy,

Thanks for asking. I've been up to lot's of things. My bloody brand new mountain bike keeps having shifting problems so it's back to the shop for the fourth time! Its a fantastic dual shock one and I love it. Still playing tennis, and with my SD too.

SS came over last night for a chat and some weight training.

I mentioned in my thread about rekindling something with an ex girlfriend from over 20 years ago! How crazy is that! That's really ramping up actually, after growing from a kernel of friendly messaging. She's pretty much the total opposite of my XW, and I'm loving that to be honest. We're catching up again in a couple of weeks to spend a week together. I'm allowing myself to feel happy again, and I deserve it. The forum, and people like you, have made me realise that I'm a decent dude - flawed a little, yes - but high value and high worth.

With your sitch, can I be honest with you and say it'll sound real weird but the initial impression I got from these recent exchanges with XW is that she may be trying to reconnect with you in a fashion. Do you think that's possible? The way she ended things with you was crazy I know, but it's just a feeling I have about what you're telling us she's saying and doing.

I know you're saying you dont care, but reflect on that mate. I sense in you hurt still - if so, totally understandable after all you've gone through.

If you really don't care, then could it be better to try shift that to indifference? That's the place the vets here say you want to be.

I'm thinking too an eye roll with an "Mmhhmm" would be a good reaction to XW's mothering of you. I think silent, eye rolling scorn is sometimes the most richly deserved response to controlling behaviour and requests. Keep taking the high road mate!

How's your new place? Is your son better now? How's dating?

Keep posting here mate please. You've got a sharp mind and I enjoy your musings. I feel everyone here is trying to help everyone else and I'm sorry you felt as though you were being criticised. I'm sure that wasnt the intent at all.

Enjoy singledom, having fun and see you on the upside mate

Cheers, DS
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 03/10/20 05:32 AM
If your son is 2 and you are going to coparent for many years , you should care. How did that communication style work for you during your M? It read like very childish communication and you say she was ďfineĒ but I can assure you the way you carried that conversation on isnít going to get her to stop nagging. And isnít going to be help coparenting for many years to come . You say you appreciate her concern but you were very defensive and took it so personally.

But carry on. You donít care, so carry on. I am sorry you felt criticized when I was trying to give some helpful feedback.
Posted By: unchien Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 03/12/20 01:29 AM
Hey IHC ~ There are some really good resources out there about co-parenting and what you can do to best support your son, even amid accusations, nagging, intrusiveness, etc. Just an idea to reframe things: At this point, she is not your XW. She is the mother of your son. How can you best support your son in this challenging relationship?
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 03/14/20 12:09 PM
IH LOVE THE EXCHANGE. Sounds about right. I could see my ex saying the same things. She loves to remind me to do things like I donít know what I am doing or like I have never done these things before. I did find your exchange comical. I guess it never ends. I agree with what you said about who wants to be friends???? They decided to leave us, Iím not looking for a friendship, Iím not looking for anything at this point. Our exís made the biggest mistake of their lives for their own ďhappinessĒ. Since I moved into my new home things have been slowly getting better for me. How about you? How have you been?? Miss chatting with you bud!!
Posted By: LH19 Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 03/14/20 01:32 PM
Hey Wolf and IH,

I wonder if if you two could post more productive posts on what you learned from your experiences and what you're doing to make sure it doesn't happen again. You indicate that your wives made the biggest mistakes of their lives but I'm wondering if your last few posts support evidence of that statement? It sounds more to me like you may have made some fake changes and when that didn't work you went back to being your true selves. Am I right or way off base?
Posted By: Wolfman Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 03/16/20 12:15 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
Hey Wolf and IH,

I wonder if if you two could post more productive posts on what you learned from your experiences and what you're doing to make sure it doesn't happen again. You indicate that your wives made the biggest mistakes of their lives but I'm wondering if your last few posts support evidence of that statement? It sounds more to me like you may have made some fake changes and when that didn't work you went back to being your true selves. Am I right or way off base?


One of the biggest things I have learned is to validate. I do it with my GF and it works wonders. Where in the past I would argue a point or say why does that bother you, thatís ridiculous. Now I listen and validate. Iím really trying to understand what my GF says to me and we have a fantastic relationship. I have learned that there is so much more than physical love. Meaning touching and being intimate. The emotional love is huge with my GF and it was big with my ex but I did drop the ball there. The 5 LL book helped me to understand that. What I receive as love may not be there love language, and it wasnít for my ex and for my GF. So my GF is reaping the rewards of my changes. Another I learned from here is would I rather be right or happy. I now always choose happy. Itís been hard at times, I like to be right but itís not worth it sometimes. I really wish I would have cake here before all of my drama but it is what it is. I am making the best of it now with my GF. My GF says to me all the time how understanding I am and how I understand her feelings (although not all the time but I am getting better with it). I am also more patient, where if I would get into an argument I would raise my voice right away. Now I just stay very calm. I love this board and how you all have helped me. I know I still make a lot of mistakes but I am trying hard every day to be a better person. Like I said, itís too bad for my ex because she is missing out. If only she would have been patient our kids wouldnít be going through this. My GG is crazy about me thatís because of the validation and understanding her love language.
IC, your convo with XW sure does seem very passive/ aggressive. A slightly different response probably would have changed the entire course of the convo.

Originally Posted by IHCLACS

XW: Please make sure you wash your hands, especially after changing S2's diapers today. It will help him to not have this reoccur.

XH: I have. I do. Maybe you should stop mothering me! I have been but thank you for the reminder, really can't be careful enough these days.


My XW says the exact same type of things and you know how I respond? Exactly like the above, and that's pretty much the end of the convo. It completely eliminates all of the below.

Quote
XW: Maybe you should stop being gross and start washing your hands.
[quote]
XH: Make sure to mention that with your therapist they might be able to help you with that.

XW: Good call!

XH: I don't know WTF you are talking about and I don't have time for bull$hit. So rest assured I am an adult. I am wasing my hands. S2 is in good hands we are having fun and every hand/surface is Chloroxed, and being bleached.

XH: 😆 😁 HAVE A NICE DAY!

XW: I would tell you to have a nice day, but you will probably have a $hitty day,Ö pun intended💩💩💩 😷😳

XH:Ooohh.. Chocolatte bon bons. Thanks you shouldn't have...

XH: Got me some N95 masks too. $hit is selling like hotcakes.

XW: Ewww

XH: Ill save you some of S2's patee with some crackers later. 😝

XW: 🤢🤮

XH: All kidding aside. I understand your concerns and fears with pathogens and stuff with this Corona Virus and other stuff going around. I do wash my hands religiously whether you want to believe and trust in that or not. Just because I took a moment to use a wipe to clean butt cream ointment off my finger after changing S2 this morning doesn't mean I didn't wash my hands right after. You watched me wash them! I'm not going to leave him unattended on the table. I suit him up. Then wash my hands. I always do after a diaper change. So I don't know what you are talking about? Just because I don't do something when you expect me to doesn't mean I don't do it.

I understand you have a lot of fears that don't stack up with my reality and that's fine. Maybe therapy can help with that. I really don't take it too personally. But I would appreciate if you would stop sending me these type of bull$hit motherly fearful reminder texts to do XYZ when its a given of what I do as a parent, and put trust in that S2 is in good, secure, and capable hands. I know your concern is him first so I don't take it personal. My apartment and my habits are way cleaner than yours. Hello! Your talking to Mr. Compulsive Neat Freak here!
But the frequency of these type of reminders need to stop. It would mean a lot to me and I would really appreciate it if you can work on that, work through you're assumed fears and develop some trust.

XH: What I'm trying to say is. Its not how an ex treats another ex and not how a friend treats another friend.

XW: Point taken


XW: How is S2?

XH:He's great! He's playing were having lots of laughs. Eating blueberries and crackers. And he's even helping me mop the floor


I mean why create trouble with XW if you don't have to? Maybe you've got some unspoken need to "get back at her" or "put her in her place". But I just see it as unnecessary conflict.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 6 - 11/19/20 12:30 PM
BUMP

IHC, I see you posted in Wolfman's thread. Just wanted to see if you could give an update on yourself!
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