2020 help me please - DivorceBusting.com

Divorcebusting.com

Ok new to forum hello everyone. Hello all and I have been reading a few of discussions.

I am ashamed to say I could not find this when I first researched months and months ago.
I actually found this googling "my wife wants a divorce and she is a total *itch to me now" - No kidding 2nd one down.

Anyway I want to try to buy the book but which one - here is my issues:

Me husband 55, wife 49. 3 kids, 15, 13 and 8 yrs old. Married for 20 or so years. We had issues for years and saw different councilors no success. She and I dont agree. For example parenting. Punishment for kids. Nagging or reminding. Supportive wife or not. etc

For last 6 months I found a marriage councilor that was very helpful. She helped identify issues with us. I thought it was all my fault. For example if I tell the kids its time for bed, turn off devices and they dont listen, then i turn off internet. Well the kids ran to mother, cried and complained and then she yells at me to turn it back on. Happens lot even recently after being told by MC that what she is doing is not good.

On her side of issue I am poor provider (business went down, looking for job, cannot get a good job so sometimes quit or laid off). I am not good father too harsh in punishment or nag too much. She does not agree on punishment or even yelling or nagging. She hates nagging. Since I am home I try to do cooking not very well. Cleaning house is not great according to her. She has had to help look after finances for years. I would look for job, try to reboot business and look after household as best as I could. For a while I did not realize it she was doing almost all of this herself and I somehow was not aware of it. I am guilty apologized and am trying to cook better do more housework and still rebooting business and looking for job to help out. I still bring in money from low business income around 5000 every 6 months or so. I have tried to reconnect with kids to have relationship.but really hard. I am out of shape now and bald. No attractive at all. I dont have many friends because basically I picked my family to be with over friends.

So now she wants to separate then divorce. We cannot even afford that. So she wants me to move to basement until she can make approx 1/2 of house then give me a buy out.

I have seen MC, doc, pastor etc. Most say I am a normal guy with good intentions and things done wrong which I corrected. I have spent more and more time with MC and asking if I am crazy and I a good catch for ladies.MC says yeah not that attractive. i dont want my family to break up. i rather stay in this family i have accepted her faults and she says she has tried for my faults, tried to help me job wise etc.

She does not want to try, not in love with me, does not love me, and wants me out as soon as possible,
Dont get me wrong. Through MC and self reflection and improvement I have figured out that she is not a perfect wife either. PS we both dont do drugs, nor gamble nor cheat physically. She drinks a little beer on vacation maybe but otherwise we dont drink, nor smoke. AND I do NOT CARE ABOUT SPORTS. She wishes I did I guess to be in more shape.

Possibly she is having an emotional affair with another guy but he seems to be cool and waiting as far as I know for me to get out of way. Though he is married too (lol). Not sure but she is always where she says and at home so perhaps the talking to each other is all they are doing. She mentions this other guy alot as friend. Now I am NOT allowed to ask where she goes and turns off any tracking ability which I merely used to see if she is near a store where I need things. IF I CALL HER too much while she is on business calls then she gets mad. If I dont call and need some food item then its hard.

I have little money, little time left and i am probably 911 situation with wife who wants out now. Sorry for my crazy all over the place email. I am desperate for help. I am writing this at 130 am. so sure its all over the place with bad grammar.

Which book do I buy. I am the only one trying to save this marriage.
Divorce Busting OR It take one to tango or what. I have watched the founders youtubes a few and they seem genuine. Phone coaching and 2 day course way to expensive.

thanks

Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

I'm not sure where you live but I would say your business is a side hustle and not a full blown business. Start a new one, or get a job and retake your role as provider. I think adults with children need to have a unified approach to parenting. This changes with divorce.

Being bald and out of shape and having no friends is fine, embrace it, shave your head, go to the gym, eat healthy, play with the kids, make new friends. All are possibilities that depend on you. These are all things that are attractive. And the most attractive quality of all is confidence. Get your mojo back.

Living in a basement is not attractive. Do not live in a basement. But don't argue and fight her either. Just listen to her and try to understand. Pursuing a woman who has rejected you and is breaking her marriage vows with another man is also very unattractive. What is up with this quote:

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Now I am NOT allowed to ask where she goes and turns off any tracking ability which I merely used to see if she is near a store where I need things. IF I CALL HER too much while she is on business calls then she gets mad. If I dont call and need some food item then its hard.

You can't get your own food? I didn't read where you were disabled or pressed for time.

Go to the bookstore and buy Divorce Remedy, it's the update version of Divorce Busting. Read Cadet's post several times a day.

If you can't locate the book, you can purchase it on Amazon.

Thanks to all of your comments. I dont even understand the tag lines of each of you.

Are you all successful in recovering your marriages before divorce.

Thanks for all of the resource links Cadet and others. Lots to read and still reading.

Sorry so much has happened even since my initial post. There has NOT been that much yelling or screaming or anything except every one and then. My wife even concedes that the recent last little while this is how it should have been over the years. Wife and I actually talk more like in the beginning years.

I have always been drawn to church and 3 weeks ago I joined gone 3 times total. They believe like this website that the marriage is not over and can be saved.

I am able to go buy food by myself. And the location thing i see you guys address as "dont text her dont ask here where she is". Basically from your links I have BROKEN every rule in the book to try to get us back together. Classic. It took me a long time to find this resource. There are SOOO MANNNY resources online that this one drops and gets buried in the google search unless you use what I did. I broken every rule in the DivoceBusting (DB) rules. I mean i wish I had seen Michele stuff sooner.

The issue is my children. 2 of the boys are borderline ADHD and Autism respectively. So that leaving the house is sometimes hard. And the older boy 13 actually has serious issues about the way he was raised and believes the younger 8 should be punished as he was. Which is part of the 6 months or so self improving that I am doing by myself now. I was sometimes very angry at what was happening in my family and with friends. My marriage Councillor MC has been working with my family. At first it was a couple going now it is really only me. My aggressive 13 year old needs it and now my 8 yr old is showing signs of needed therapy as the separation starting to materialize.

I have learned in my 6 months of therapy that while alot of the yelling nagging etc part of me was my fault - all my fault in the delivery, At the root cause, my MC has figured out that it is not me totally now. At first she had to confirm if I was an abusive person particularly the nagging. Which for the record is like get ready for school, do homework, go to bed etc. MC says that is NOT nagging but required parenting. And parenting is definitely part of issue.

Business is definitely a side business now. Hardly brings in 500 per month. When it was overrnbw, going full steam I was bringing in 20k per month. Even then my wife made little comments on how it was not enough. ONLY 1 maybe 2 times she ever said I was doing a good job! I continue to reboot it, continue to do the "side business". starting to do new education for my field and looking for jobs. The role of provider was taken by her as my wife can bring in so much money on one of her deals equal to months of me working. So that I stay home with kids so that she can go out.

I am still pretty sure she is NOT cheating. She really does not have time but emotionally I think she is talking to a person because she actually mentions his name for odd times. Like asking my 13 yr old to go to a game OUT OF THE BLUE with this father and his sons. Even my son said why??? It is odd but according the DB here I should let it go.

PS We had another argument and scene with 13 year old trying to hit and hurt the 8 yr old again. And we had our MC in conference for this issue and how to handle it. It came out as we were talking my wife said this "You expect me to believe that you have come 180 degrees and that you are no longer abusive even in yelling". my MC said "did H hit or yell at the kids in anyway". Thee was silence and my wife sayd "No H did not do anything except try to talk and try to stop the boy but it is all H fault the way kids turned out". MC definitely says W is stuck on what the past many many years ago. MC does not know why she does not see the changes.

Today like most days she asks me to move to the basement. We cannot afford a divorce as the legal fees or even just splitting the house is too much. The market is not good for sale of house and she wants to keep the children in this house. Ok so I am yielding today, I am cleaning the room in basement and will move into it.

I am just getting the agreement understood about what is allowed. Bring overnight guests over or not, unwanted friends etc.

1 - What do you guys think of that? Moving to basement for now.
2 - Since I have broken every rule of DB do i have a chance.
3 - I continue to self improve with my MC and online resources. I am looking for Divorce Remedy (DR) now.
4 - W sees the changes in me however still does not want to try.
5 - Even her friends are telling her that I am a "narcissistic sociopath" and that I am lying and making this change to save the marriage only. MC laughs and says if these people are even medically trained they would not say that. And I am not this medical condition.

Thanks for helping and sorry for long distress call update.

Here is my take on your five (5) items:

1. Do not move to the basement. If she is unhappy, then she should be the one to find other accommodations. You should remain living in the house and sleeping in the Master Bedroom.
2. You may have broken the rules, but you always have a chance. Learn from those mistakes, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get moving on working on you.
3. Have you given any thought of doing IC and not MC? MC doesn't sound like it's working all that great for you.
4. So, she sees the changes. Whatever changes you are making, need to become permanent. Do not fall back into previous habits.
5. What do you care if her friends are saying stuff. Prove them wrong...be the best man that you can be. Focus on you, work on those things that you know you need to work on and continue moving forward. Stop worrying about what others say! They aren't walking in your shoes and besides....your wife could be telling them all sorts of stuff that isn't true.

She may not be physically cheating, but she is having an emotional affair. Emotional affairs are harder to break, but they too need to burn out on their own.

Have you given any thought that your children may need to have some therapy? Sounds like you son is acting out and is crying for help. The bullying is not a good thing and if you don't put a stop to it, it will only get worse and not just against his sister, but eventually in school and any relationship he has in the future.

Now breathe, and remember...you can't "nice" her back into the relationship. You need to set boundaries w/her and I would think it would start w/not moving to the basement. But, that's my personal opinion. Don't allow her to dictate what you can and cannot do. You can't fix her...she has to do that herself. You can't control her, but you can control the way you interact/react to her behavior. Always try to speak in a calm, level voice and look her in the eye. Do not allow her to goad you into arguments and/or disagreements. The more you stay calm, the more she doesn't have a justification to want a separation/divorce.

thanks for reply.

MC is a very good one and actually identifying all sorts of issues that i was not aware of. i am NOT in the medical field.
and also my doctor, pastor and other therapist. The MC has suggested that we take our sons to therapy as they are most affected now. 1 appt already confirmed. HOW EVER she does not believe 1 person can save marriage following any method.

what is IC ???

my wife is at point she hates to look at me and i know i am not much to look at but working on it. yes she said it and denies. she is also the main bread winner right now so my mother, MC and others I listed said do basement thing for now. it is temporary. she says in a few months she has enough money to buy me out of the house which is ok sum to live on while i look for job or i will remain in basement hoping that the DB DR works.

i do try to keep away from her and she is not always be nice to me however she does insult me in front of children.
if i fight back the kids get affected so now i am trying hard to just keep inside. its not easy as i have long time of defending myself. MC says there is something wrong there. not all there upstairs. even after she admits she should not and apologizes. then does it again. ODD THING is she would love for me to look after the kids 7/24 while she goes on her trips with girlfriends. she does go away on business too and i have been on them so no suspicion to worry about there.i mean so far. IF THE KIDS dont go with me, wont listen to me, wont let me cook them basic meals etc I cannot look after them. As much as it pains me for that result, then in future if things go bad then i wont look after them at all. i dont want that but if that is what she is doing to them then i cannot stop it really.

friends is that they talk to each other and sometimes i hear my wife saying same things as our friends. that is how i know. so she can be affected by them. one of them said that narcissist sociopath was a trait i should look up. she seemed to have believed it until my MC told us no it was not accurate at all.

i can only change myself as i have learned over thousands of times in the past 6 months. i believe it. i am trying.

i am ordering book DR on amazon.

Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted by Wonka

Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.

Danee,

No not all of us have saved our marriages before divorce. If you came here looking for the magic bullet, you will be disappointed. There isn't one.

While only some of us were able to save our marriages before divorce all of us were able to save ourselves! And at this juncture that is more important.

So the bad news is that you may not be able to save your marriage. But the good news is that it appears that you have plenty of work to do on yourself! Becoming the best father you can be. And becoming the best person you can be, becoming someone that can not only provide for himself, but for his children. You have a great opportunity here to become a better person all around. Or as we say around here, AMOAFWL (A Man Only A Fool Would Leave).

You see, despite our societies of the world trying to "progress" on gender issues....there is a little thing called biology Biology cannot be defeated. Biology says that men and women value different things in each other. A man values a woman that is physically healthy and able to bear children (whether he knows it or not). A woman values a man that is physically healthy and able to earn a living (whether she knows it or not). I have seen dozens of sitches here where couples of gone against biology to devastating (on the MR) effects. Because, well, you can fight biology but biology will win.

Your W is at a precarious age. If you look at my sitch you will see that my W was 49 and quickly approaching 50. If you look up articles on women turning 50, many of them start to take stock of their life and the time they have left to determine what they want. Many woman that hit 50 end their MR and start a new R. I don't say that to discourage you, I say that because it is true.

Focus on you. Become the best you that you can be. GAL. 180 on bad behavior (IE improve yourself), and detach. Learn what loving detachment means. It is important to understand that. Sometimes Googling "self differentiation in marriage" helps with the understanding.

I repeat, FOCUS ON YOU, not her. Give her time and space to figure out her own stuff.

I see you saying repeatedly that you are "unattractive"... so here are my thoughts/experiences on this.

1) Physical looks are not the most important thing in attracting a woman... confidence is, and by a very wide margin. Work on your confidence and do things to make yourself confident (GAL's, 180s) and, quite frankly, fake it til you make it... until it becomes habitual and who you are. People in general, and not just women, will respond to that. It will server you very well in your professional life as well.

2) Some easy GALs for appearance: Practice good grooming. Don't smell bad (sounds simple, right, but there's alot that goes into it-- brush and floss twice daily, use mouthwash, get a manly smelling soap or shower gel and shower regularly, find a cologne you like-- the department store clerks can be very helpful in this regard.) Buy some new, stylish clothes. Go see a stylist about your hair-- alot of men going bald these days and some research that even shows it makes you look more manly/sexy etc to women. Start exercising and working out, and make sure you include strength training to add some muscle tone. See, here's the thing-- there are probably looks, smells, etc. that she now identifies with you and in a negative way. Changeing your grooming habits, smells, looks, etc., will help you avoid triggering unpleasant associations with her. Also, and this is very important... if you are well-dressed, well-groomed, neatly trimmed hair/beard, with a decent cologne, you are already ahead of probably 75% of the men out there. Get some confidence and don't be afraid to look a woman in the eye and talk confidently to her and you are probably ahead of 90% or so of the men out there.

3) doing the above things will also help our confidence and happiness... which will have the added benefit of making you more attractive. it's a virtuous cycle.

I think your situation may not be as hopeless as you think... but you need to start taking care of yourself and GAL!

Best of luck to you.

Here is the link to the list of abbreviations. The thread is at the top of this forum:

Abbreviations...updated

IC means individual counseling

Hi Danee, welcome to the community. Reading about your situation is depressing for me, b/c I see a big shift in how a lot of men see themselves and their role in life. Other H's have come with their personal stories of how things went downhill pretty quickly when they (the man) took a financial hit. I think it can be especially difficult if his W convinces him that it is his role/job to stay home......and basically fill the traditional role of the wife/mother/homemaker. I suspect your self esteem has hit an all time low, and at the moment, it's mostly up to you to pull yourself up by the bootstraps.

What are the ages of your children? How long have you been sleeping in the basement? Does her employment require traveling away from the home?

Before you can expect to save your M, I think you need to focus on saving the man. Maybe I am presumptuous, but I sense that you are carrying some shame. You are apologetic, also, May I suggest that you become aware of how often you say, "I"m sorry" or "I'm ashamed". It's just a little exercise to do over the next few days.

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On her side of issue I am poor provider (business went down, looking for job, cannot get a good job so sometimes quit or laid off). I am not good father too harsh in punishment or nag too much. She does not agree on punishment or even yelling or nagging. She hates nagging.

Funny, the word nagging was once associated with wives. Look how far we've come!

Would your W have verbal disagreements over your parenting style.....in front of the kids? If a S or D comes, do you think your W will expect you to deal with the kids in her style of parenting? How often did the kids see you relent, thus freeing them of consequences? Kids quickly learn how to play one parent against the other one, don't they?

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Since I am home I try to do cooking not very well. Cleaning house is not great according to her.

Do you check with her about how well you are cleaning, or does she complain.........or dare I say, nag?

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She has had to help look after finances for years. I would look for job, try to reboot business and look after household as best as I could. For a while I did not realize it she was doing almost all of this herself and I somehow was not aware of it. I am guilty apologized and am trying to cook better do more housework and still rebooting business and looking for job to help out.

Did this experience cause you to feel shame? That last sentence where you say you are still trying to reboot business and are looking for a job.......to help out, is like a flag waving. It is not daddy's job to help out the family. It's his job to provide, protect, lead, and train. If your business is only bringing in $500 monthly, then get out of it and go to work full time at a job that pays you enough salary to support your family. If you can't find one employment to give sufficient salary, then you work at two or three. You don't quit. You don't quietly accept that you will become a homemaker and hand over your b@lls as she goes off to work. You've got to reclaim yourself as a man, in order to have respect.

Just for the record, I'm not saying a husband & father should not help with chores around the house. I'm saying it should not be his main purpose within the family. The problem comes when he stops being the provider......and his W becomes the breadwinner while he stays home. If he's not going out there to make a living, then she expects him to do the work around the house. Everything gets out of whack, b/c the dynamics have changed....the wife's feelings change for him. She resents him 100% and loses respect for him. So, the MR deteriorates.......until he decides he is going to reclaim the role God designed him to have. Danee, I think you have been beaten down, and feel ashamed or guilty, but maybe the sources of those feelings have not been identified correctly. I encourage you to start being true to yourself. Find your own worth. You aren't going to make any brownie points with your W, b/c she has set herself apart.....and is rebelling against the MR. You aren't completely blameless, but neither do I think it's entirely one-sided. She is not going to help you find your way as a man. You have become dependent upon her, and I think that had a lot of negative effect on the relationship. You cannot rely upon her to help you get employment. This is your mountain to climb.

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So now she wants to separate then divorce. We cannot even afford that. So she wants me to move to basement until she can make approx 1/2 of house then give me a buy out.

You don't get it. She is making the decision, not you. You are seeing it being a financial burden on the family, but she is not looking at it from the same viewpoint. I suspect she sees you being totally on your own, buddy. Ask yourself why she dictates where you get to sleep, if she's the one wanting out. I'll tell you why. B/c she wears the pants, and maybe that was forced on her......IDK, but she has a sense of entitlement, and believes the woman(just b/c she is a woman) deserves the MBR. Sadly, that is how many men see it, too. MBR should be the acronym for marital bedroom. Kind of gives it a whole new meaning, doesn't it? Easy to decide who leaves, the one who wants out of the M.

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I have seen MC, doc, pastor etc.

How many of these positions were held by women? Do you have a group of male friends you spend time with? Did you and W have couple friends? Do either of you have exclusive or secret friendships with the opposite gender?

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I have spent more and more time with MC and asking if I am crazy and I a good catch for ladies.MC says yeah not that attractive.

There is a reason you question your sanity, and your level of attractiveness. I hope your MC did more than just tell you that wasn't attractive. Listen, getting older isn't much fun. Most of us have to "work" harder to be attractive. Feeling unloved, unworthy & unsuccessful can take its toll in more ways than just emotionally. Even medication is limited if we don't get our behinds out of the house and purposely interact with people who have an emotionally, positive influence. Decades ago, we saw a lot of what you've described in "housewives". They didn't feel valued, were depressed, etc. Today, we are seeing these ailments in men who have decided to be a SAHD or lost their job, etc.

I encourage you to make a plan of activities that will assist you in feeling better and enjoy life more.

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Possibly she is having an emotional affair with another guy but he seems to be cool and waiting as far as I know for me to get out of way. Though he is married too (lol).

Why did you laugh?

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Not sure but she is always where she says and at home so perhaps the talking to each other is all they are doing. She mentions this other guy alot as friend. Now I am NOT allowed to ask where she goes and turns off any tracking ability which I merely used to see if she is near a store where I need things. IF I CALL HER too much while she is on business calls then she gets mad. If I dont call and need some food item then its hard.

I always thought the H was really out of touch when he said his W didn't have time for an affair. You need to prepare yourself by detaching. If she's not in an affair, she's looking. For women, I think the biggest part of any affair are the emotional accolades.

Can't say everything in a couple of posts, so keep coming and posting.

Hi Danee, just wanted to chime in real quick about being the provider and losing that role. I am absolutely familiar with how that feels, man. While I did not lose my job, I did crash our finances badly during the stock market crash... like, badly enough to put us deeply in debt and endanger our house and our future financial well-being for, at that time, the foreseeable future. As a man, I can tell you, there is no deeper feeling of shame and helplessness than the thought that you have failed as the "provider" for your family. That, along with some health problems, threw me into a tailspin that was a major contributor to my marital problems. Lost my confidence.. all of it, in everything. Went from relative comfort to worrying constantly about how to pay for everything... and it was MY fault. I did that to us! It is incredibly hard to come to grips with.. Not until I got BD'd by my W did i get shaken out of my funk enough to do some serious self-reflection, get religion (both figuratively and literally), get some individual therapy, and snap out of my funk. It can be done. I know it is demoralizing and I know that it $uck$, and I know what that feeling is like but here's the good news: you can turn things around! Financially, even, yes... no situation is beyond hope, but more importantly mentally and emotionally. What happened is in the past. What matters is what you do now, going forward. Find some positive, self-affirming activities or endeavors. Start small if you have to but do it! Get into counselling to deal with your feelings on this because it can and will eat you alive if you don't... I know! Finally, if you are so disposed, pray for guidance... faith and prayer were a huge part of my GAL-ing and recovery and, ultimately, the reconciliation of my MR... the man upstairs is always listening if you are willing to talk.

Best of luck. My thoughts and prayers are with you

Still around?

Thanks everyone. I came here to find support and friends. I have to admit some of the advice i got is kind of harsh because i guess i was not clear in my posts. I am at a place where I get medical professional help around 1-3 times a day and all I hear is what I need to improve. Well now I have improved alot with parenting and how to deal with relationship. I was on the right track before but just did not know how to do it exactly. I have improved greatly according to the MC.

I asked because as many of you have noticed I am so LOOOOWWW in self esteem it is really bad. I asked MC am i really a bad person as I am led to believe and parent. MC says actually that once other women finds out what I am like and how I am i am very desirable. I asked her to be honest and she says definitely but with kids and issues its not right time. Like so many here who need help I am "trained" to be with a wife. As God said man and women unite to become one. Half my life has been with her. So now I have to untrain myself. MC has actually asked my wife why do you want to leave me. Usual answers as discussed here. ILYBNILWY and many other reasons.

I am at home because most jobs i get are not money making and if I have to work at a regular job my wife cannot do her business as she is picking up kids. Her one deal WHEN it goes thru usually is 3 months of my regular salary. Her business is cyclic and hard. So while i reboot all of my options, job, certifications, business, etc. I try to help out the family at home. There are the jobs that did not work out or I was not good enough??? Chemistry was not right for alot. Me again lol? I do NOT mind being at home and wife being the provider is not really a big question until just recently. Yes she said that was bothering her to but as I said if I work then no one to look after kids. PS I still do a little business on the side as someone said here. But at one time it was like 20k a month. She loved me then.

My MC is a women, my doctor is a women, pastor is a man. Varies for everyone else. Have not been on since my wife father died then we had a funeral. He was supposed to go for over 1 year so we mostly expected it. On the same day after the funeral and with my one kid with me - the rest with the mother at restaruant - i got rear ended in car accident. Since this car accident have been going to physio 2 times a week and slowing down on helping around house.

It does rain it pours for me. I get it all. After reading so many posts on here I am starting to realize like the stats say, around 50 percent of people get divorced. My other friend also at the divorce stage of papers said to me his wife and my wife are probably possesd by evil. They are friends who talk alot. We are christians. I have read a few posts on the wayward women. Perhaps mine is maybe not.

To answer Sandi and others. Kids 15, 13 and 8. The 15 year said to me a few times she has been waiting for us to divorce for years. She is exceptionally rude and is quite selfish mostly. She is sweet when she wants to be.
13 year old boy has major tantrums and today hit and kicked his mother. Hit me too. Both older kids say they do NOT want me around. Nice huh.8 year old boy also has tantrums but we are trying. 13 yr is borderline ADHD and takes medicine. 8 is borderline autistic. Two older kids make it really kind of hard right now on me as well as they are rude, dont help out and continually are slobs at home. If I say anything I have to be real careful not to NAG etc. Yes yes i can clean the place up all the time but as a father I FIRMLY believe that kids over the age of 10 have got to help out now. Otherwise what have I taught them. And yes discussed in great detail with female MC and she totally agrees now after being with us that the kids should not be spoiled anymore.

For the spoiling i will address here now. My wife feels that since the kids have these issues it was her fault. I always said from the beginning that is not true and we could not pick our medical conditions for our kids. So here is the cycle that caused alot of issues. When our kids are acting badly I would correct them, first talking, explaining, discussing, explaining etc etc. Then the shouting came later and nagging. "Get ready for school, we are going to be late please get ready please stop playing on devices, eat and brush teeth please stop devices etc etc " screaming GET READY NOW.Get the picture. Then wife would spoil the kids saying its ok take your time, eat more, whats the rush etc etc then I would get angrier. Remember reading this I did not say it right. Think circle where i nag, then wife spoils, then I nag more then wife again overrides me etc. It was a vicious circle. For years we fought like this too. NOW I REALIZE with the help of so many professional people talking that actually it may have NOT been me all the time. The wife and the kids blame me for so much unhappiness all the time. What child would NOT want the parent that gives them what they want. What child wants the person who has rules. MC told me that tonight after another big incident.

Here is the part of the kids and mother. Because mother is so good to them giving in all the time I am the bad guy and so kids dont want to be with me. 15 yr old even said so today when i said will you go out with me when i take you to diner etc. she said nope. both older kids refer to me as "hey or hey you".

Today my 13yr old kicked and hit wife and me as she was taking his internet device away.He was verbally abusive to us for 30 minutes and she had enough. I had to call in cops because i was terrified he was going to do more to us. He was screaming the whole time at us before the police came. And yes this is not the first time and yes we are getting help for him but it has been slow. Trying to see if we can get him help at therapy tomorrow police said it would help. 15 yr old thinks that the talk of separation is causing it. All I hear is how bad a father i am from 13yr old as he goes berserk over devices. First time to call police and they want us to handle it first. We are seeking therapy for all kids or at least the 2 boys. Girl does not seem to need it though rude.

i have not been on lately because of this. Living in basement is really the crappiest. I have a light and clock. I get up early to help with lunches while my back hurts. My mattress is crap since we dont have money to buy a new mattress.Room is cold and not even a tv. Yes I almost feel like i am divorced already. If we do go through with it as wife says she still wants even tonight then i need to get money out of house (not dividing as she wants to keep it for kids). so that I can be off. MC told me tonight she really thinks I should not be with wife anymore to wake her up. I have been here 3 weeks in basement doing the detached thing as much as possible. No improvement really except she is not telling me constantly to get out or move to basement.

For the many of you going through what i am going through you are not alone. I am still going through it and if wife would come to her senses we could be so strong together now with our kids. I know let go right. GAL. Trying trying trying. If only our spouses would wake up right? That is the update for now. Sigh

I know you are in pain, you have my sympathy in that regard. But my sympathy won't do anything for you. Only you can do something for you. Your world sounds quite chaotic. You have the ability to change that. People will treat you how you let them treat you. Tired of living in a basement? Change it. Tired of being yelled at? Don't allow it. There's an old saying that you should never wrestle with pigs. Everyone gets muddy but the pigs like it.

Therapy won't be a replacement for the true foundation your kids need. You have an opportunity to become a better parent that you must seize. Lead by example.

Danee,

Please do not take the advice as harsh. Sometimes the truth is hard to hear, no doubt about it. There were a lot of hard truths I had to hear, both from my WAW and from others on this forum, when I was in my sitch. And I was one of the lucky ones that was able to DB and get my sitch turned around.

The truth is sometimes hard to hear. That doesn't mean it is those providing being harsh, but being real. I know when your self-esteem is low you'd prefer if everyone handled you with kid gloves, but coddling never helped anyone.

What I can tell you is that we do support you! We've been through it. We know how low you can get. And how much it hurts. And how you feel like you are not worthy. But please read the sticky thread "You will not die". While this is the most difficult thing you will ever go through, and none of us would wish it on our worst enemy, it is something you can and will come through.

Our frankness in this forum is for your support. We don't want to sugarcoat things and then have reality smack you square in the face. I can tell you that the frank advice and support I got here was made more useful by the 2x4s I also received. Accountability is as important as support and guidance. After all, we need to be called out when our mistakes set us back in our DB journey.

Danee, please continue to post. Feel free to tell us if the advice is "too harsh". The last thing I want to do is to advise someone that doesn't want my advice. I've told other posters here that if you would prefer I not comment on their sitch to please just say so. But if you want me to post or you want my input then please do not tell me how to provide that.

Danee, we've all been where you are. It is horrible. But trust me when I say frank advice and being called out when you set yourself back is your best path forward.

Danee, one thing I want to address is your W being possessed with evil. My W and I are very religious. We are Christians that are very active in our congregation. We are very committed and devout. SO it was difficult when my W went wayward. She was still attending church but I could tell she was struggling with her fleshly desires and what she knew to be true and right.

I too was tempted to think of her as possessed. As lost. As being pulled into the world by the devil. But another Christian anti-D author helped me to realize that what my W was trying to do was to be happy. And while her pursuit of happiness was stressful and painful for me, that it was nothing personal. It was simply her doing what she felt she needed to do to be happy.

As a Christian you are well aware of I Cor. 13. And what the Bible says about love. What love does and doesn't do. "Love thinketh no evil." Your W, the mother of your kids, is not evil. She is simply trying to find her way through the darkness like the rest of us. She is reaching out for how to be happy in an imperfect world. She is trying to find a way to survive in a world that pulls her in one direction, and her spiritual beliefs pull her in another.

Love her enough to let her try to find that happiness....no matter what it means for your MR. One other thing this Christian based anti-D author made me realize is that if comes down between the choice of her leaving to be happy, or staying and remaining miserable, do I really want the latter? I had to admit, when I put my fear and anxiety aside, that I really did not want her to stay and be miserable. If those were the only two choices than her leaving to be happy and my moving on, even though it wasn't what I wanted, was really the only way forward.

I can tell you that it is unlikely for your W to "wake up". Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Giving her time and space, removing all pressure and pursuit, over time can have a positive impact. Sometimes it can even save your MR. AS you rightly pointed out, if you DB well you have about a 50/50 chance of saving your MR. What I can also tell you is that if you pressure and pursue then your chances fall to less than 1%.

Hang in there because what I can tell you is that it does get better. You will come through. Rely on your faith in God. You know he has a plan for you and your life. Trust that. Look at poor Job (the man in the OT, not the poster here!). He lost everything, and had a W that told him to curse God and die. Yet he persevered and came out the other side even better than he was before. Trust in God.

thanks for all of the different advice. i will have to digest it. I really appreciate it. Yes my life is chaotic and my MC and doctor who both talk to me almost everyday if I can afford it are helping me. I also have the church.

One thing to add about the christian thing. Yes I do realize that wife is doing things to make herself happy. And amazingly as I bet most of you here in trouble, want your spouse to be happy.
My other christian friend going through divorce now and his ex are friends with my wife. Funny huh. Stats show people with similar situations will affect others for divorce.
BUT he told me something funny. He and his wife went through this weird religious event where his wife's voice actually changed to someone else he had never heard of. It was really creepy and she was in middle of exorcism sort of. I dont know whole story but he was scared so badly. Around that time his wife was cleared and wanted to try the marriage again. Around 6 months later, the ex wife had turned into someone he did not recognize again! It was so scary.
That is basis of my statement about possessed wife. take care all and hoping your divorce busting is going better.

danee,

I am not sure what you are suggesting. Are you suggesting that this guy's W was actually possessed by a demon?

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Thanks everyone. I came here to find support and friends. I have to admit some of the advice i got is kind of harsh because i guess i was not clear in my posts.

Harsh advice? You are having to deal with a harsh situation.

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I am at a place where I get medical professional help around 1-3 times a day and all I hear is what I need to improve.

You are getting medical help 1-3 times a day? And, all these medical professionals just tell you what you need to improve? Are you staying in some type of medical facility?

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Well now I have improved alot with parenting and how to deal with relationship. I was on the right track before but just did not know how to do it exactly. I have improved greatly according to the MC.

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Today my 13yr old kicked and hit wife and me as she was taking his internet device away.He was verbally abusive to us for 30 minutes and she had enough. I had to call in cops because i was terrified he was going to do more to us.

This is very confusing to me. You allowed him to verbally abuse you for 30 minutes!! What were YOU doing during that half hour? Your W finally had enough, so you called the cops on your 13 yr old son......... b/c you were afraid of him? Has this type of situation occurred in past times, where you felt you had to call the police?

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To answer Sandi and others. Kids 15, 13 and 8. The 15 year said to me a few times she has been waiting for us to divorce for years. She is exceptionally rude and is quite selfish mostly. She is sweet when she wants to be.
13 year old boy has major tantrums and today hit and kicked his mother. Hit me too. Both older kids say they do NOT want me around. Nice huh.8 year old boy also has tantrums but we are trying. 13 yr is borderline ADHD and takes medicine. 8 is borderline autistic. Two older kids make it really kind of hard right now on me as well as they are rude, dont help out and continually are slobs at home. If I say anything I have to be real careful not to NAG etc. Yes yes i can clean the place up all the time but as a father I FIRMLY believe that kids over the age of 10 have got to help out now. Otherwise what have I taught them. And yes discussed in great detail with female MC and she totally agrees now after being with us that the kids should not be spoiled anymore.

Okay, you may accuse me of being harsh, but it sounds as if the children are in charge rather than the parents. You say they are rude to you. How do you address that situation? It is a clear sign they don't respect you. It is also their way of challenging you.

I agree that children should have chores (based on their capabilities), but I disagree about waiting until they are 10 years old. ((Danee)) parents must start training children when they are big enough to pick up their own toys and put them in the toy box. It teaches them responsibility, and that every member of the family has a chore. You have to train them as they grow. Teaching them to pick up after themselves, keeping their rooms on some level of tidiness, taking out the trash, etc. If the parents wait for 10 years and then expect the child to help with chores..........there will be big problems. I mean, they are nearly through elementary school by 10. They are slobs b/c nobody consistently taught them......and/or enforced rules that they had to clean up their own stuff. Poor habits were put in place a long time ago, so it will be hard to break the bad habits and establish good ones. Let me be clear by saying I do believe children learn quickly and they can change easily if parents give them the solid structure they require. In other words, if parents allow the sloppiness to slide one day, but goes nuts when the kids don't clean up the next day.......then that's not being consistent. You have to be consistent, and follow through. Kids have to know what the rules are, and what the consequences will be if they choose to ignore the rules.

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If I say anything I have to be real careful not to NAG etc.

Well, clearly, daddy is not the person in charge in his own home. Another time you were describing the dynamics with kids dragging their feet, and every few words you spoke were "please" do this & "please" do that........I think you said there was screaming, also. Based on your posts, I see you as a man who wants to accomplish most everything by discussing the issue. That would be nice, only it doesn't work with a WAW or kids. There is nothing wrong with addressing certain issues in a discussion, the first time. My question is what is the next step, should all your talking be ignored? Do you have a second talk...........then a third.........and so on? As the father & husband, your family will never respect you if you conduct yourself as though you are a victim. Maybe you are too gentle or soft. Maybe you don't know to lead, or to teach. Maybe you didn't have good role models when you were growing up, and you don't know how to parent your children successfully. I encourage you to look into your local areas for free parenting classes, or support groups.

I hope you will stick with us, and give us a little more information.

Thanks Sandi2. Are you the same as Sandi1 who talks about a wayward wife?

If you are i have questions for you Sandi1.

For the many questions and many lapses of days I am not on here I am sorry.
I am NOT in a mental health facility. I think that would be a vacation from some of what I am going through.
Yes sometimes chaotic sometimes not. My MC will take my calls for payment of course. Once week I have a GP appt who totally wants my M to work. She also is so happy that as a man I am not willing to give up on kids.
Since the 911 call the 13 yr old now knows he has to watch it with us. He knows has backed off alot though his addiction to device and parenting issues continue. He still screams at us sometimes but is more subdued now. The professionals said I did the right thing. Though my wife NOW says I should not have done it. After she agreed with me to do it. My MC thinks there is something mentally definitely going on with W. My W has done sessions with this same MC.

Anyway to give you guys a quick update. Things have been up and down since then. Not really any screaming. I am still in the basement. Again I give her that so that she can get rest as she is the main bread winner for now. I am still trying to reboot my business, find a job and TRYING to study for more certifications.

We do sometimes snap at each other and insult. Lately I find though on at least 3 occasions I am able to walk away.
She spends alot of time reminding me (erroneously though reducing with kids around) that I will need to make money, find my own place, get used to being separated etc.

Since we dont have money to do a proper divorce I have to go to basement for now. I told her I do not agree that this is separation, giving up child custody or house. I am advised by my professionals to state this.
The professionals I have are most times MC, GP and other therapist of the week depending on what I need addressed. When my W said I was this OR I was in deep depression (which I am in now but handling it) I would seek out a psychiatrist. If I am injured from back injury from recent car crash, I seek out physio. Then I also discuss situation with them since they also have medical backgrounds. MC/GP say it is good I talk to professionals because as I talk more and more. I find out more and more about me.

W also made some comments as discussed I let myself go, not so handsome anymore etc etc. So she is doing yoga gym etc etc etc. Sandi1 you talked about it in other posts. I dont think my wife is having an affair but my professionals cannot see any other reason for this situation now that I have improved, home life is slowly slowly improving. Sandi1 do you see a similarity and do you think she just cannot forgive the past? W made a comment to MC that if I had been like this before we would not be here today.

Am I too gentle always discussing. Yes I am lol. But it is when I loose it after many discussions yes I get in trouble. Now I walk away and say it a few times. It is starting to work slowly or I just turn off the internet and the boys listen right away. I dont yell anymore or nag. For the chores I am tired to trying to get the kids to listen. I let my W start yelling at the kids. She still cleans alot after them so the anger is mounting in her and I can see it and hear it. Before it was always my fault. Now I make little adjustments so that she sees whos mess it really is. I clean up mine, 8 yr old (working on him to clean) and my W. W still completely lets girl do whatever. starts on 13 yr old.

Part of issue I see is grand mother play favorite with ALL grand kids. She herself is divorced.
W does the same and I dont know how to get her to realize it. I know I cannot control her. I get it. So her anger builds up and then she realizes it is not me.

So some of the DR techniques are working. But mostly are NOT. My W reminds me almost everyday that she does not want to continue the marriage.She reminds me she deserves to have happiness and I dont make her happy. That I did not provide her security and financial. I understand what you mostly will agree with her as you have all recently said. Yes I get that. For the last little while while this is going on I have to admit I have not been able to concentrate since she is threatening me with kicking me out. As to the there is no father in the house remark. I would agree because there are actually 2 fathers! lol. A real father and a mother who likes to be the father. So that might be considered part of problem. AND also friends and family who also tell W all the time in the past that I was a too strict father or i was this and i was that. Now my own mother does agree she even did it. There was so much of it. The MC said that really hurt our situation immensely instead of seeking professional help we listened to non professional advice. I even have in laws who almost everyday send me self learning lectures on how I can improve. Sometimes I hint at them that I am listening perhaps they should share it with other parts of the family -- W. They yes they do. W even says now that I am in basement and we hardly talk it is too stressful on her. I ask her why and she lists so many other issues not even related to me then I am the last on the list. She even simply thinks doing one or 2 things will help the children like more sleep. I keep telling her the professionals disagree it is more complex like they understand the separation and they do not like it.

One of these people i am not sure who told W that I have the traits of a narcissists sociopath. I did not even know what that is but checking with MC and GP they both said definitely no I am not. They even said whoever said that to my W may loose their medical license if they are in the field and make that diagnosis without meeting me.

Reading posts on here I noticed we are all in the same sort of situation:

1 - we hang on every little thing our S says to us hoping things will get better. I am starting to realize with my professional help that perhaps it is NOT TOTALLY our faults. yes we made mistakes and most of what I read we try to improve or have improved. For me I always think to myself if the situation was reversed I dont think I would want a divorce. Not with children. Stats says its bad for them too. But we are like slaves waiting for our S to make a comment, hang on every word and hope things will get better. I am starting to think why do we put ourselves through this after trying to fight and hang on so hard. We should be given a medal !

2 - My brother in law - yes even him - said this to me. If my W does not realize what a good person I am even with my faults (as we are supposed to accept it and I accept so many faults of my W) THEN SHE DOES NOT DESERVE ME.
I know he is trying to get me to leave her for his own sisters sake BUT at same time it is true to me. I did not cheat, not a substance abuser, not a gambler, do not spend money hardly and my focus is on my kids and family. Self teaching in my field is for the purpose of business and/or getting job for the family.

I say this for now I am starting to look at leaving myself because maybe she does not deserve me.
She also has some medical issues I am starting to realize that affects our relationship. My professionals say she needs help. I can NOT control her to get help or anything so I am stuck. While I continue to do the DR rules as much as I can I slip sometimes, it just does not seem to be getting any better. I am fighting for a M that is full of issues.

Maybe she is in a EA and there is nothing I an do about that either. Thanks for listening and for all of your advice and questions.

Steve85 - yes my friend said that exactly to me. He said he saw his wife become someone else with a different voice. No head turning movie or anything. Just the voice and refusal to take the potion. Olive oil or something.

Anyway after they forced it in she calmed down and was an amazing wife for the next 6 months.
Amazing huh.

weird huh

Yeah, I do not believe any of that stuff. I am deeply religious and believe the time of supernatural events ceased once the full revelation of Christ was revealed (IE the written word we know as the New Testament).

Anyway, are you now believing that your W has a demon possession?

Hi Danee,

A few thoughts--

1. Note the irony in your IC complaining that her IC said you have narcissistic traits without meeting you, but then your IC said she needs help apparently without meeting her. Neither is an official diagnosis, just an impression. 1000:1 no licenses are lost over either statement. That sounds like pure fantasy.

2. My IC tells me to drop statements like SHOULD or SUPPOSED TO. If your flaws outweigh your strengths in her eyes, why should she accept that? She's a human being seeking happiness. Many of us just wish our partner were more insistent in articulating deal-breakers before a dramatic ball drop. It's true in most situations that little changes before would've been a game-changer, but little changes aren't enough now.

3. If you attempt to force a potion down your wife's throat, expect jail or a restraining order.

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Thanks Sandi2. Are you the same as Sandi1 who talks about a wayward wife?

To my knowledge, I'm the only Sandi on the board. Yes, I talk about wayward wife.

Danee, I'm very concerned about your family. There is an unhealthy family dynamic, and in my opinion, a professional family therapist needs to work with the children and the parents. I know you are worried about your marriage, but it seems the different parenting styles is the center of the marriage issues. Without professional help, the two parents are not going to agree or compromise in their style of parenting. If one therapist is working with both parents to improve the family dynamics, then it seems there would be more success overall.

Currently, your wife throws the blame at your feet for all issues surrounding the kids and the marriage. Do you think your wife would agree for both of you to attend therapy sessions with the same professional therapist? Don't call it marriage counseling or individual counseling, but ask her if she will agree to family therapy. It may require some other professional therapist than you are currently using. If so, then I see no need to have more than one person as a therapist. Your wife will resist sessions that are labeled "marriage counseling", so maybe you can ask her to put the marriage aside long enough to learn how to meet the special needs of your children.

Read this post:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846984

Thanks for all of your help.
I bought the book DB. Read it read the online forum. Tried do all the steps. Not successful at all of them and definitely not all the time. I started to get disappointed and angry the ridiculousness of this.

Anyway even her brother told me "If she does not realize what you are, it is her loss".

Worked alot with telephone marriage councilor in covid 19. Spent alot of money. Even she thinks wife is making a mistake.

This week finalizing separation papers and found a condo to move to. Kids still hitting me, yelling at me and grandmother thinks the children are so spolied when they dont get what they ant and treat me badly. I know they love me sort of. The older girl seems to want me gone too. To be fair there are medical conditions and I was tough on them all with homework etc etc etc. at earlier ages until now.

Grandmother says it is not me it is the mother. MC sort of says it indirectly but she does not make the official diagnosis. MC also says the divorced and single friends influence on wife was not good.

I dont have much to say except I hope I can go on. i dont really want to be with her either because I never knew such hate such contempt for me from someone I loved, trusted and thought we would grow old together. I will miss my family, house and mostly the kids. The kids are really my concern but as I say here i cannot do much with them. I dont want them to hate me if they are forced to see me.

Sad but I have to respect all of their wishes even the soon to be ex wife. Marriage counselor gets this question alot form me. Am i really a bad father and husband. After a long time of sessions with me and us, she says not at all. She said there will be lots of women in this age group we are in, interested in me for sure. I am a catch. whoopie doo. NC even says wife will want to come back! Yeah its ok NEXT.

Anyway thank you all. I dont know if I will comment much more. I do watch MWD videos and i think had I learned alot of this years ago I might have made a difference - with most women. Not this one.

Good luck for you who have hope and are doing the DB steps. if mine had been more "normal" I would have had a chance.