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Posted By: HesAble Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/05/20 03:05 AM
Last Thread: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2884067&page=1

My goal for February is to focus more on GALing and much, much less on H's erratic behavior. I am also working hard to train my mind to reject thoughts that H's actions are a personal attack on me because this negative thinking has kept me on an emotional roller coaster ride.

Additionally I have a list of about 30 things I can either start enjoying now or will enjoy if a S or D becomes a reality. I plan to keep that list going. It makes me smile and has been helping me snap out of my funk.

Feel free to share how you are GALing these days. Thanks to those of you who shared your ideas in my previous post. Such an inspiration! So glad I found this community!
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/05/20 01:45 PM
I have started this focus-on-GAL-more but H still manages to do something stupid to put me back on the emotional roller coaster. Went to bed in a good state of mind and woke up feeling resentful again. I guess I just keep GALing as much as possible and, with time, I will be able to detach more and more.

I am learning that I should have ZERO expectations and I will be disappointed much less often. I need to ACCEPT that H is a sorry H and has never been what I deserve. Right now, in his sick mind, he is a single man free to do (or not do) whatever he wants. What a pathetic H and father. Right now, finding "happiness" and fun is more important to him than his family and I need to accept that and know that when he neglects the kids, it is what it is. Atleast I am healthy enough to take on all the extra responsibilities involving the home and children. It is not like he pitched in all that much before (problem is I had expectations before BD that he would learn to level up).

Also I have got to kick this "why me?" mentality. The pity party has been going since November and it needs to end.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/05/20 01:59 PM
I always encourage people to join social media groups that pertain to their interests.

I also would encourage your to go 100% at work too. When your work and personal life start to turn the corner, how you feel about your relationships will too.
Posted By: dillydaf Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/05/20 02:11 PM
HesAble: I have been working on dropping resentment, having zero expectations and not feeling self-pity for about 18 months now. Some days I still fail badly at it (like even yesterday). And the 'finding happiness' I always reframe as 'I feel miserable and am running away from responsibilities to see if that makes me feel less miserable because the pain is unbearable'. That helps me, not sure if it might help you? Because the best way to decrease resentment is to have compassion for the pain of your spouse. Yes their method of trying to escape is hurting so many other people including you, but they feel compelled to do it, it's not deliberate. And I have compassion too for the time when they wake up from their fog and realise the damage they have caused. If you are a half decent person then the guilt must be terrible, at least in our pain we know that we have conducted ourselves with dignity and with love and compassion for our loved ones, they don't have that consolation. And if they never wake up, well living in denial for your whole life is a pretty awful place to be. My MIL has been like that ever since she abandoned her family, and now she is old and lonely and not loved by anyone including her kids. Karma biting her hard.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/05/20 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
I always encourage people to join social media groups that pertain to their interests.

I also would encourage your to go 100% at work too. When your work and personal life start to turn the corner, how you feel about your relationships will too.


I have been struggling to stay focused at work. Sigh. I hope I can get into a state of mind where I can go 100% very soon. It is getting better gradually.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/05/20 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by dillydaf
HesAble: I have been working on dropping resentment, having zero expectations and not feeling self-pity for about 18 months now. Some days I still fail badly at it (like even yesterday). And the 'finding happiness' I always reframe as 'I feel miserable and am running away from responsibilities to see if that makes me feel less miserable because the pain is unbearable'. That helps me, not sure if it might help you? Because the best way to decrease resentment is to have compassion for the pain of your spouse. Yes their method of trying to escape is hurting so many other people including you, but they feel compelled to do it, it's not deliberate. And I have compassion too for the time when they wake up from their fog and realise the damage they have caused. If you are a half decent person then the guilt must be terrible, at least in our pain we know that we have conducted ourselves with dignity and with love and compassion for our loved ones, they don't have that consolation. And if they never wake up, well living in denial for your whole life is a pretty awful place to be. My MIL has been like that ever since she abandoned her family, and now she is old and lonely and not loved by anyone including her kids. Karma biting her hard.


Kudos to you for getting through 18 months of this! I am only on month 3 and some days it all seems so unbearable. I can imagine that time heals and my ability to cope will get better over time. The GALing is helping some, but H still lives in the home with me so a lot of his behavior is hard to ignore (although he is staying overnight somewhere else atleast 50% of the week and it seems to be increasing - I get no warning which nights he will be gone or at home).

I am working on the compassion and trying to remember that H must be in emotional turmoil, but I always start wondering if his actions are in fact deliberate...if he is just a selfish, sorry narcissist who does not care who he damages, etc. Sigh. It is so hard to have compassion or remember he is in "pain" when he walks around smiling, wearing fancy new clothes, planning "fun" outings (kids & I of course are never invited), posing for social media photos, and appearing to be having the time of his life.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/05/20 09:00 PM
OMG, this roller coaster ride! Now I am again contemplating asking H to leave our home. This is driving me crazy!!!! Yes, he could say no. Then, I have no idea what my Plan B would be. His behavior is becoming more erratic and he is more and more absent. This is affecting the children's emotional well-being. I am just trying to determine what would be worse - having him leave altogether or having the children see his erratic comings and goings (as well as witness our dysfunctional relationship).

Decisions, decisions...I had to cancel my meeting with the lawyer due to an emergency so I need to reschedule. I am trying to focus on something else so I don't proceed with asking him to go before getting legal advice.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/07/20 04:42 PM
After all H has put me through, I still believe there is some good in him somewhere. I believe that he has a conscience that will at some point step up and rattle him just enough to care at least somewhat. I think that optimism that H is not a complete alien monster is what keeps me holding on. Perhaps I am naive and he has been a bad person pretending to be good for the past 20 years. I just find that hard to believe. Or perhaps he has just lost the good over time and developed into this terrible, selfish person. Only time will tell, I guess.

I have got to come up with some GAL ideas for the weekend. I plan to get my nails done for one thing. I may plan a spa-at-home evening with wine, a good book, a facial mask, candlelit bath, and body scrub. I did a facial mask a few days ago and it felt amazing! Maybe I will go to a movie with the kids too.
Posted By: wayfarer Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/07/20 05:24 PM
Originally Posted by HesAble
After all H has put me through, I still believe there is some good in him somewhere. I believe that he has a conscience that will at some point step up and rattle him just enough to care at least somewhat. I think that optimism that H is not a complete alien monster is what keeps me holding on. Perhaps I am naive and he has been a bad person pretending to be good for the past 20 years. I just find that hard to believe. Or perhaps he has just lost the good over time and developed into this terrible, selfish person. Only time will tell, I guess.


There's a reason most people talk about the alien/stranger analogy here. The person you're dealing with is not your H. You have to stop trying to dissect who he really is from his current behavior. Like all people he is both a good and a terrible human being. Our choices are what determines how much of each we are. In either case he's in crisis and humans in a constant state of fight or flight do strange things. They working on our most basic animalistic functions. Brains in crisis don't function with morals or values. They function on survival. They don't process information the same. They don't worry about the emotional welfare of others. It is possible he'll never snap out of this that doesn't mean he is or was a terrible person. It's possible this is only temporary and that doesn't mean he was a terrible person for a little while but was always good at the core. You have to work to understand where he's at, even if he can't reciprocate. You have to start working towards meeting him where he's at because he's not going to wake up magically one day and meet you where you're at. If and when he starts coming to the other side it's a long process. A lot of push pull from what I've been reading. A lot of this horrible version rearing it's ugly head unexpectedly, and then swinging back until they are fully ready to R. This is a marathon not a sprint. Pushing your expectations and morals and definitions on him in this situation aren't going to help you in the long run. His behavior is about him. Not you. It's never been about you. No matter what has come out of his mouth about that. You have to keep this saying in mind "hurt people hurt people, healed people heal people." You guys are both on a journey. Both bumpy, both difficult, and while parallel they are two totally different paths. You gotta start worrying more about the directions and obstacles of your path through this and a lot less about what his path means.

Originally Posted by HesAble

I have got to come up with some GAL ideas for the weekend. I plan to get my nails done for one thing. I may plan a spa-at-home evening with wine, a good book, a facial mask, candlelit bath, and body scrub. I did a facial mask a few days ago and it felt amazing! Maybe I will go to a movie with the kids too.


These are all good and amazing things. I'm so proud that you are jumping into some self care with force. You deserve it.
Posted By: cardinal Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/07/20 09:33 PM
Hi, HesAble. wayfarer makes some great points that were helpful for me too. It definitely has not helped me feel any better/sane to assume everything H did/does is to hurt or affect me in some way. He's not a complete alien monster; he's hurting. I have no idea what's going on in his head, and I don't think he could articulate it fully even if he wanted to. I mean, as far as he expressed it, the main issue was/is me—I am the sole cause of his pain and unhappiness. But, no, it's not about me. Or you. Our Hs are on journeys it may be hard for us to empathize with, but I feel better, and less bitter, when I try to and can. It helps to remove myself from the equation: he's not acting the way he's acting because of me; he's not directing his actions toward me; he's just there, and I'm just over here, observing. It was hard for me to get used to, though, not automatically wanting to take everything personally.

A spa-at-home evening sounds lovely! I'm thinking about making some kind of bread for a late breakfast on Sunday.
Posted By: may22 Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/07/20 10:45 PM
Hi HesAble,

I can't remember-- do you have friends or family you've confided in? This might be a good time-- if you have someone who will listen and can support you where you are without judgment-- to get together and vent. There is something about being with another human being who loves you and cares about you and is there for you no matter what and will listen that is so, so valuable... I finally told one very close friend what was going on after I learned about the PA portion and calling her is like medicine when I'm spinning.

I know the why me feeling, and the WTF is he doing feeling. The resentment is real and totally understandable. But... it IS happening. He IS doing this. This, as much as I wish it weren't right now, IS my life. My only life. So I need to suck it up and figure out what I'm going to do because wishing it weren't won't get me too far. Your H is being a total d**k. Do not let him drag you down with him-- you simply can't give him that power.

I like your at home spa idea. I will do it next week when I have the house to myself!!
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/08/20 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by may22
Hi HesAble,

I can't remember-- do you have friends or family you've confided in? This might be a good time-- if you have someone who will listen and can support you where you are without judgment-- to get together and vent. There is something about being with another human being who loves you and cares about you and is there for you no matter what and will listen that is so, so valuable... I finally told one very close friend what was going on after I learned about the PA portion and calling her is like medicine when I'm spinning.


I have confided in some close friends but found that only one encourages me to stand for the M. Now she is dealing with medical issues in her own family so I feel selfish calling her up with my issues. The others are encouraging me to take care of myself by getting rid of H.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/08/20 04:59 PM
HesAble,

I'm getting caught up on your sitch. You seem to be just as emotionally drained as him. You would be well served to focus on the basics (detach-his words and actions don't have power over you, GAL, drop expectations, 180's with no peacocking, stop mindreading and monitoring social media).

The stuff wayfarer is talking about is great, that's strong girl attractive stuff every time she posts. Be funny, be sassy, be flirt, bust mostly be comfortable in your own skin.Now every gal is different but you get the overall theme. Also, I suggest a brut sparkling over the prosecco, possibly both?! On a serious note, get out and about too. Social events, interact with men. I had a big turning point in August of 18. I went out solo to a few bars with the idea of having fun. I met lots of friendly people and talked to 4 women for extended periods of time. I didn't approach either, I usually sit back and enjoy the atmosphere and let things work out but you do it your way. After that night I realized that I would be fine, even though my situation sucked and I didn't want my marriage to go down the drain.

I know you posted about shocking some sense into him, I don't think it will work. The biggest thing that's going to change your H's mind is seeing your pretty butt walking the other direction.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/08/20 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
HesAble,

...On a serious note, get out and about too. Social events, interact with men. I had a big turning point in August of 18. I went out solo to a few bars with the idea of having fun. I met lots of friendly people and talked to 4 women for extended periods of time. I didn't approach either, I usually sit back and enjoy the atmosphere and let things work out but you do it your way. After that night I realized that I would be fine, even though my situation sucked and I didn't want my marriage to go down the drain.

I know you posted about shocking some sense into him, I don't think it will work. The biggest thing that's going to change your H's mind is seeing your pretty butt walking the other direction.


I definitely need to get out more. I had not thought about going to some places solo.

Also I have come to my senses and agree with you that not much is going to shock H at this point. He is in his own bubble. It [censored] and I wish things were different but it is what it is.

I need to stay off social media because I have found myself scrolling through couples' pics thinking "why me?" How did I get stuck with the MLC Monster? Other couples seem to be able to work through their stuff. Then I snap out of it. Having a pity party won't change my miserable situation.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/09/20 03:07 PM
It is the weekend and, as usual, H has been spending the night elsewhere. He never tells me where he is going and I do not ask. Should I be asking? I was assuming that, in order to detach, I should not be asking questions about his nights out but perhaps I am wrong. One friend says that my not asking may send a signal to H that I really do not care where he is which will, in his eyes, confirm what he thought about me not caring enough about him during most of the M (his rewriting history).

I am not looking forward to the whole V Day week, but I am realizing it is only one commercialized day. I am going forward with my plan to buy myself flowers and spoil myself. It is so sad that it has come to this but it is what it is and I am so grateful that I have the means to spoil myself. Thanks to all of you for encouraging me to do that.

I did not get around to having my at home spa evening this weekend (it is not too late since I still have today), but I did get out and have some fun with the kids. I am so grateful for being given the gift of time to bond with my children. We don't get this precious time back and, while H runs around with his secret friends (or OW), he is missing out on key bonding time with his children. Perhaps some men do not value this time as much as mothers do? Or is it just the MLC Monster type that doesn't value it? Whatever it is, it is sad to see a father not caring about missing out on time with his children (not that he spent much time with them before BD and when things were "normal" because he was gone a lot then too. In fact, a red flag was the many times I asked him to do fun weekend things with the kids and he responded that it all sounded boring. He never enjoyed family outings and I even had to encourage him to spend more time with his own parents during the holidays, etc.).

Oh well, I have found hope in my spiritual faith. Whatever the outcome of this M, my children and I will be fine. Life will go on. This too shall pass. Trouble does not last forever.
Posted By: wayfarer Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/09/20 04:54 PM
Do not ask the question of where he’s going and/or what he’s doing unless you are 100% ready for the truth and/or a huge fight. Because those are the only outcomes of asking. I can tell you with absolute certainty he isn’t doing what he’s doing because he thinks you don’t care about him. He’s doing what he’s doing because he doesn’t care about you right now. The crappy wife stuff, you don’t care about me, you can’t love me right, I don’t make you happy, you don’t make me happy, we can’t ever make each other happy, lots of couples the sex thing comes up, all of that is rationalization and justification for their crappy behavior. Mine in the beginning basically said I was an energy vampire and he couldn’t stand to be around me, no one could. Mind you I’m on several hundred milligrams of antidepressants and was in therapy before this mess. I’m sure I wasn’t exactly the life of the party but I wasn’t the reason our relationship was struggling and it certainly wasn’t why he cheated. He was. And his refusal to address our issues or his. These WSs are feeding their misery with this behavior because it makes them feel “happy” fleetingly again. So they chase and chase that feeling like a junkie. You really have to believe me when I say this isn’t about you.

As far as the him being around for the kids. Seems like he wasn’t there before. Seems like you always have been. That’s the memories they’ll have. Not that dad was absentee but that you were always there and you had fun. Maybe focus on that.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/09/20 05:44 PM
Wayfarer: Accepting that he just does not care about me at all right now has been the hardest pill to swallow. And the even harder pill to swallow has been trying to justify why I am standing for a M with someone who does not care about my feelings. I have done nothing to him to justify his mean actions (other than maybe not being the life of the party, but he is not the life of the party either and never has been).

I am definitely experiencing situational depression. This is why it has been so difficult to get off the emotional roller coaster and not be affected by his actions. I am getting counseling and am under my doctor's care. Hopefully I can get out from under this fog with this help.
Posted By: Pommy99 Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/10/20 09:18 AM
Originally Posted by HesAble
I am working on the compassion and trying to remember that H must be in emotional turmoil, but I always start wondering if his actions are in fact deliberate...if he is just a selfish, sorry narcissist who does not care who he damages, etc. Sigh. It is so hard to have compassion or remember he is in "pain" when he walks around smiling, wearing fancy new clothes, planning "fun" outings (kids & I of course are never invited), posing for social media photos, and appearing to be having the time of his life.
ugh this sounds so much like my husband last year, new job in the city, new wardrobe, endless selfies, endless nights out, staying in hotels. In his mind he was completely justified. After years of stagnant and SSM something had awakened him to the fact there was more to life than bad marriage. I don’t blame my H for rediscovering a zest for life but I also found it hard that he was happy to run two lives in parallel: 3 days in the city and 4 days of home comforts. Like you I felt like I was being trampled on and it was difficult to understand his turmoil when everything he did was so pre-meditated. Do you find it difficult to GAL when you are the one left at home to look after the kids? I imagine his unpredictable behaviour means you cannot plan your own nights out. That is very selfish of him. Are you able to say hey H, I’m out tomorrow night so please can you be home for the kids? Even if you have nowhere to go, go somewhere!!

Originally Posted by HesAble
I have got to come up with some GAL ideas for the weekend. I plan to get my nails done for one thing. I may plan a spa-at-home evening with wine, a good book, a facial mask, candlelit bath, and body scrub. I did a facial mask a few days ago and it felt amazing!
I had a home spa on Saturday...it was lush. I had a bath with scented candles, face mask, hair mask, pedicure. Also had my nails done last week...deep ruby red. I’m trying to do something for myself every day.

Originally Posted by wayfarer
You have to keep this saying in mind "hurt people hurt people, healed people heal people." You guys are both on a journey. Both bumpy, both difficult, and while parallel they are two totally different paths. You gotta start worrying more about the directions and obstacles of your path through this and a lot less about what his path means
this is an amazing quote Wayfarer, but I am struggling with this concept. I am scared that showing my H that I will be ok without him means he will be more comfortable in walking away. At the moment, one of the reasons he says he has been unable to leave is guilt (not just for me but also the kids). I know deep in my heart that I don’t want a H who is only here through guilt - and I have told him that guilt and fear and not valid reasons to stay. But I’m scared that if I show I am at peace with him leaving, he will leave.

Keep strong HesAble....you are doing really well!
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/10/20 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by Pommy99
[quote=HesAble] . . .I am scared that showing my H that I will be ok without him means he will be more comfortable in walking away. At the moment, one of the reasons he says he has been unable to leave is guilt (not just for me but also the kids). I know deep in my heart that I don’t want a H who is only here through guilt - and I have told him that guilt and fear and not valid reasons to stay. But I’m scared that if I show I am at peace with him leaving, he will leave.

Keep strong HesAble....you are doing really well!


Pommy99: I have the same fear about my H. I have been following DB, but have also been wondering if acting as if I am at peace with H leaving is going to backfire and make him feel less guilty walking away. I agree with you that guilt should not be a reason to stay, but I wish guilt could soften H's heart to the point that he is willing to give our M another try, even if it is just for the children's sake. I have seen little to no improvement in H's behavior in spite of my DB practices. Perhaps it just takes time or maybe things are working in a way I cannot yet see.
Posted By: wayfarer Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/10/20 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by Pommy99
.I am scared that showing my H that I will be ok without him means he will be more comfortable in walking away. At the moment, one of the reasons he says he has been unable to leave is guilt (not just for me but also the kids). I know deep in my heart that I don’t want a H who is only here through guilt - and I have told him that guilt and fear and not valid reasons to stay. But I’m scared that if I show I am at peace with him leaving, he will leave.

Keep strong HesAble....you are doing really well!


Originally Posted by HesAble
Pommy99: I have the same fear about my H. I have been following DB, but have also been wondering if acting as if I am at peace with H leaving is going to backfire and make him feel less guilty walking away. I agree with you that guilt should not be a reason to stay, but I wish guilt could soften H's heart to the point that he is willing to give our M another try, even if it is just for the children's sake. I have seen little to no improvement in H's behavior in spite of my DB practices. Perhaps it just takes time or maybe things are working in a way I cannot yet see.



I've had the people closest to me repeatedly ask me to take my walls down and let my H in because well who I am is a person with walls. That if he really loved me it would pull at his hear strings. That it would fill him with guilt if he could see how horribly I'm doing with all of this. But I can tell you the pathetic version of me that existed when I literally couldn't control my emotions, before DB and just time in this mess, he was absolutely disgusted by her. I think it's Ready 2 Change that posts about the book "Why Men Love B**ches" Might be worth a look for you guys. Who I am inherently is that. I know a big chunk of why our relationship started to take a nose dive before the cheating is that my depression and our other R issues nearly killed off my personality. We worked well when I'm my full A type self. In a place where he's the one who has to check me when I go too far afield but am otherwise in control. The best R conversations we have. The ones where I've seen him full on cry or tear up, where he gets caught up in the emotions of things are the ones where I keep my wits about me and while I can say what I'm thinking and feeling calmly like I'm teaching him something he never learned, not trying to elicit a reaction. Act AS IF is a huge part of DBing for a reason.

The fact is I can't always keep my emotions out of his journey here, but I know d@mn well he can't see that it affects me unless he comes out and asks. They see everything on their terms through their skewed lens on the world in that moment. The other saying they say on here a lot, "You never looked as good as you do when you're walking away." It has validity. Human nature is to want what you can't have. No matter what I think and feel. No matter how much I hope H gets his sh*t together in the end, he won't want to lean back in until it seems as if I'm over it. The nice thing about them making us strangers who live in the same house is they literally forget who you are. Being strong and independent, self possessed and unbothered, you're the hot girl across the bar no body can keep their eyes off of. <- But all that stuff is about them.

The reality here is worrying about you and leaving them be is the only move you can use to win the long game here. The more I look like I'm moving on the more my H leans in. Maybe it's because he's feeling I'm going to be ok and his guilt is assuaged and he's thinks he's going to get his wish of us being bffs when this is over. OR he is leaning in because he wants to. I can't know, but in either case I win. In either case it means I'm getting some of the control back. He thinks he's getting the outcome he wants and when we separate households now it's my call if I'm willing to be "friends" because he's the one who can't go a day with out at least checking in. If he's actually leaning back in it means if he really wants to try I get to call the shots again. At least for a little while until we can re-balance the relationship. No matter what worrying about me, and doing my best to look like I'm moving on, actually moving on, detaching and staying out of his way while he deals with his journey here can't hurt me in the long run.
Posted By: Pommy99 Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/10/20 04:45 PM
Wayfarer, everything you say is so right. I guess I’m not wanting to present a needy or desperate side, and I haven’t been doing that I don’t believe. But I have shown my vulnerability, and I have sobbed my heart in front of him. The last time he announced he was leaving I told him calmly that it wasn’t what I wanted but that I would not stand in his way. Within an hour he had started to backtrack. I felt strong. A few days later he found me crying my eyes out on the bathroom floor. And he said when he saw me like that, so vulnerable, it made him want to protect me. So I guess I’m wondering if there needs to be a balance between showing my softer side and my hard outer shell. I feel the emotionless woman with the hard outer shell is what got us into this mess.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/10/20 05:28 PM
Wayfarer, I like the hot-girl-nobody-can-have analogy. That makes sense. Also it makes sense that DBing is not just to try to get the wayward spouse to come back; it is good for us as individuals no matter the outcome of the M. I will keep this in mind.

I have just been wondering because I feel like I was always the tough, super independent type woman ordinarily up until BD and, like Pommy, think that personality of mine may have contributed somewhat to my current M situation. I think it was attractive to H at first but, over time, it may have bruised his ego a bit. He has said numerous times that he did not feel like I was all that into him and that I didn't seem to care much about fixing the M. He doesn't want to fix it now that he has found his new way of life (what I believe to be the mystery OW). In spite of my requests in the past to go to counseling, he has always refused (even pre-marital and after the last bout of confirmed infidelity).
Posted By: wayfarer Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/10/20 06:17 PM
I'm a very guarded person because of my past. H knows that. But i'm guarded not shut down. Being strong and being hard are very different things. I'm not saying never cry in front of them. That's my own person bs trying to never let H see me cry. There are a lot of talks on my thread about vulnerability and gauging how much to let WSs in because this is a delicate balance like Pommy said. Might wanna look at what Ready 2 Change posted on there. So being that A type bad B who had mental illness and life kick her to crap on a cracker, I can say this.

Bad B**ch attractive things:
-independence
-decisiveness
-not emotionally volatile but not afraid to say what she thinks
-not cruel but says what she thinks
-more than capable but will let some one help simply because they offer
-knows what they want
-knows their worth
-won't stay where they aren't wanted

Bad b**ch unattractive things:
-controlling
-criticism unsolicited albeit constructive or otherwise
-being judgey
-must be in charge in every situation
-cold/angry
-closed off

Being strong and assertive as a woman has huge benefits, but it also has major down sides. We tend to overreach. Even emasculate. We also end up spreading ourselves really thin and putting our own well being on the back burner because we truly believe we are the only one who can do things right all the time so we just do it all, get frustrated and then take it out on our Hs because we feel like they aren't helping even though we won't let them. I think the goal here is to 180 the negative aspects of being a strong woman and pump up the positives. I think it's more than just a balance of vulnerability and strength it's a balance of strength and being hardened.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/10/20 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by wayfarer


Being strong and assertive as a woman has huge benefits, but it also has major down sides. We tend to overreach. Even emasculate. We also end up spreading ourselves really thin and putting our own well being on the back burner because we truly believe we are the only one who can do things right all the time so we just do it all, get frustrated and then take it out on our Hs because we feel like they aren't helping even though we won't let them. I think the goal here is to 180 the negative aspects of being a strong woman and pump up the positives. I think it's more than just a balance of vulnerability and strength it's a balance of strength and being hardened.


I definitely agree that I suffered from the downsides of being strong and assertive, particularly putting my own well being on the back burner because I have truly believed that I was the only one in the M who could do things the right way. What I have learned is that this was killing my mental health as well as my M. It is not too late for my mental health (I now gladly accept help) but may be too late for the M. What little H was willing to do, I always seemed to critique so he may not have felt comfortable doing things. I definitely am working on striking a balance between the good and bad characteristics you listed above as part of my 180ing.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/11/20 03:24 PM
I need to take some power back. I have been feeling powerless in this situation for so long and that is anxiety-inducing. For those of you who have dealt with BDs and gradually came out of the powerless fog, what helped you gain your power back?
Posted By: wooba Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/11/20 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by HesAble
I need to take some power back. I have been feeling powerless in this situation for so long and that is anxiety-inducing. For those of you who have dealt with BDs and gradually came out of the powerless fog, what helped you gain your power back?


Detaching helped. Once your emotions are not pulled by H’s every word and action, you will feel powerful. Also just recognizing that there will be things that are out of your control. So I don’t have to feel powerless over things that I shouldn’t be worrying about anyway.
Posted By: job Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/11/20 05:04 PM
I agree w/ wooba, detaching was the first step and the second step was knowing what my rights where and what I was entitled to legally.
Posted By: cardinal Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/11/20 10:05 PM
Yes, I think I began to feel I was gaining power when I knew H couldn't get an expected reaction out of me, whether he was trying or not. I found power in being able to control my reactions. I felt more powerful when I started doing what I wanted to at home and stopped considering if it might have an affect on H.
Posted By: may22 Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/12/20 02:27 AM
HesAble, you aren't the one still doing your H's GD laundry, are you? If you are... stop that right now. (Or was it you, wooba?) Whoever is still doing their H's laundry... stop. Please, just stop. There is one simple step to taking back your power.

Also, stop following him on social media. If you enjoy checking your accounts, mute him so you don't need to see any of his shenanigans but you aren't cutting yourself off from your other friends via social. If you need us here to be your accountability partners on this, I'm happy to check in with you on this particular issue, if that extra incentive helps.

Choose one thing you want to do just for you that he would HATE. Do it and take childish pleasure in it. (This is my pettiness coming out. but it helps.)

Go buy super high thread count sheets and a comforter in a pattern you love. put them on your bed. If he doesn't want to sleep there anymore, his loss. Make it yours and love it.

And here's my last piece of advice-- if I were you, I'd plan to get out of the house on valentine's day with your kids. If you can afford it, book a hotel-- or go to a friends house and have a family sleepover. (I've done this, once with and once w/o my H, with really good couple friends. Our kids are friends too. It was SO fun for me but H hated it, his loss. Kids stayed up late watching a movie, had a fun sleepover, and then after we put the kids to bed the adults stayed up and had cocktails and chatted late into the night. In the morning we made coffee and bacon for our hangovers and talked while the kids played. it was so much fun and also free!) I have a suspicion that it will be difficult for you if your H doesn't come home Friday night and so whatever you can do to avoid knowing about it is healthy. (Also, imagine what he will think if he *does* come home and you aren't there!)

I think the biggest thing is to try to stop worrying about what he is doing or thinking and what that might or might not mean for you. Taking your power back is focusing on what you want and need and putting your energy there, not on him. He's being a d**k. Don't let his a-hole-ness affect you.
Posted By: wooba Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/12/20 02:38 AM
Originally Posted by may22
HesAble, you aren't the one still doing your H's GD laundry, are you? If you are... stop that right now. (Or was it you, wooba?) Whoever is still doing their H's laundry... stop. Please, just stop. There is one simple step to taking back your power.

*quietly raises hand..... blush I do not feel powerless doing it though. I don’t prioritize his stuff either. This laundry thing is not big on my list. Haha!! If I had to choose one thing that I’m not doing to take back power....would be to stop listening to his rant about work. Not sure how I’d go about that though. We already don’t talk very much.

Originally Posted by may22
Choose one thing you want to do just for you that he would HATE. Do it and take childish pleasure in it. (This is my pettiness coming out. but it helps.)

What do you do may?? I am curious!
Posted By: may22 Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/12/20 04:02 AM
Originally Posted by wooba

*quietly raises hand..... blush I do not feel powerless doing it though. I don’t prioritize his stuff either. This laundry thing is not big on my list. Haha!! If I had to choose one thing that I’m not doing to take back power....would be to stop listening to his rant about work. Not sure how I’d go about that though. We already don’t talk very much.

Wooba, OK! You do you! As long as you are cool with it and aren't doing it out of a desire to keep connected or show your value or whatever. Do you fold it too??? And that time really, truly couldn't be better spent watching a Grey's Anatomy rerun eating chips and guacamole? Just checking smile On the not listening to the work rant stuff, that is harder. Does it make you feel badly when you have to listen to it? Can you identify what about that makes you feel powerless and act on those smaller things without stopping listening to him entirely?

Originally Posted by wooba
Originally Posted by may22
Choose one thing you want to do just for you that he would HATE. Do it and take childish pleasure in it. (This is my pettiness coming out. but it helps.)

What do you do may?? I am curious!

Ha ha, I'm not sure I want to say because you guys will all like my H even less now (and maybe me too)... but for instance I fed the kids toast with Nutella (just a little bit) for breakfast because he totally disapproves, but in fact the amount of sugar in a tiny sheen of Nutella is not all that big of a deal. I *did* throw out the comforter I know he liked and bought a new one just like one I'd had before and he'd convinced me to ditch but I always loved (and I f-ing LOVE my new sheets. I love them every time I get in my bed. That was so worthwhile.) I bought the kids fish and a fish tank and they are super messy when they feed the fish and I know seeing the fish food all over the bathroom counter kills him. (TBH it bothers me too. I might regret that one.) One week when he was gone, I let the house go to a total disaster zone all week with stuff everywhere and the kitchen a total wreck which would drive him berserk. I actually cleaned that up before he got home, but all week long I felt like a teenage rebel and loved it. He also hates stuff on the kitchen counter, so I used to put my coffee grinder away between uses. I left it out (which is waaay more convenient and he hasn't said a word). When he was away the weekend before last and the girls and I stayed at a hotel, I gave the girls a "yes" day where I said yes to everything, which included some significant swathes of watching TV in the middle of the day, which he would totally disapprove of, and I said "yes!" merrily and we watched cartoons and ate goldfish and cuddled. It was awesome.

Anyway. That probably all sounds ridiculous and I'm sure fuels speculation about what is wrong with me or H or our R, but it is all true. My H hates messiness and sugar and TV (for the kids) and I have definitely gotten some stupid enjoyment out of some of this. I will also say that earlier on in our sitch I was the opposite, I kept the kitchen extra spic and span when I was cooking so that he wouldn't look at it and get annoyed. Now I cut that all out. I do generally keep the kitchen clean because I am not, in fact, an 18 year old boy and do prefer it clean... but I'm doing it for me, not out of some desire to make him like me again. And the weirdest thing is all these pet peeves I've had with him (mostly around him being a giant hypocrite, like he leaves his dirty dishes in the sink when he's working from home and yet if I were to do the same he'd flip)-- now if I get home and there are his dirty dishes in the sink, 7 times out of 10 he'll pop over to the kitchen as soon as I come home and take care of them. The other three times I might just do them because I'm feeling nice. We had definitely fallen into this tit-for-tat R with household chores and that is now mostly gone, but I don't know if any of this had anything to do with that.

HesAble, sorry to hijack your thread.... how are you feeling about all of this? What GAL activity did you choose today?
Posted By: Yail Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/12/20 04:11 AM
Yay petty convo!

Ok, it's a bit different from this side of the fence, where I am fully divorced and have no connection to XW.

BUT I wear lipstick nearly every day. XW hated lipstick. It brings me great joy, so in that way it is my little "FU" to the world.

She also suggested I had too many shoes (in all honesty - at the time I did). So now everytime I buy new shoes I get REALLY excited. More pumps for Yail.
Posted By: may22 Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/12/20 04:18 AM
Originally Posted by Yail
She also suggested I had too many shoes (in all honesty - at the time I did). So now everytime I buy new shoes I get REALLY excited. More pumps for Yail.

hahaha I keep a good percentage of my nice shoes under my desk at work so no-one has to know how many pairs I actually own.
Posted By: Yail Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/12/20 04:24 AM
Are we twins may?

This was my go-to move. I had about 4 or 5 pair at work that XW "didn't know about". This was how I got around her stating I had to many (even after she purchased me a very large shoe closet).

I continue the tradition. Currently about 7 pair at work in my desk. I sometimes rotate between meetings just because I can.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/14/20 06:41 PM
Happy V Day everyone! So much has been happening but I have made a lot of progress with GALing, 180ing and most of all detaching. H made some disheartening and disappointing statements to me this week that confirmed our marriage is dead and, as far as he is concerned, can never be resuscitated. This was like a second BD because he mentioned D again. Well, I am tired of fighting to show him that the marriage is worth saving (he says he no longer loves me) so I am completely detaching, am not at all interested in marriage counseling anymore (not that he would go), and do not plan to engage in intimate activities with him anymore.

He has pretty much irreparably harmed our relationship unless he makes some drastic changes quickly. He does not deny there is an OW and I have to put up some serious boundaries. At this point, I am not feeling love for him either.

I do not plan to get into another relationship as he has done (he is not denying it), but I am open to talking to and befriending other guys at this point. I enjoy Male company quite frankly but will not engage in adultery for religious reasons.

I told H that we should separate at this point. I still need to see the lawyer to get information about my rights.
Posted By: may22 Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/14/20 08:17 PM
Hi HesAble,

Thanks for the update-- I have been thinking about you! It sounds like you're mentally in a good place (isn't detaching the best??) and I'm really glad for you. IIRC it will very much be in your own financial best interest to separate-- I think that is a good move to see the L and protect yourself. It doesn't close any doors to the future, should things change.

Embrace the strong and assertive side of yourself and use those amazing qualities to do what needs to be done. Also, don't forget to keep taking time for yourself-- you need it and deserve it.

Hoping you are going to do something fun with your kids today and start a new V day tradition!!

(((HUGS))) we are here for you, HesAble.
Posted By: cardinal Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/14/20 09:16 PM
HesAble, you sound calm and collected and in touch with what you want for you right now. Assert those boundaries with your actions and continue focus on GAL activities, whether they're at home or out. Love to you and your kids!
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/15/20 12:57 AM
H is out tonight and will likely not even come home (not surprised since he did not even deny there is an OW when I confronted him about it after 2nd BD). I am so done with his antics. I'm not sure if he is purposely trying but he sure knows how to zap the love out of a person. I would be lying if I said I love him right now (other than the Christian love I would have for any random person).

The kids and I are just hanging out tonight but we may take a short trip tomorrow. I had to work late and am exhausted. Several friends, both male and female, have sent me V Day wishes. I did not get around to spoiling myself like I had planned, but it is never too late. I owe myself some chocolate covered strawberries and prosecco.

I do feel like I have taken some power back by establishing these boundaries. I have to protect myself emotionally and physically. I told H I think we should separate, but he prefers getting the D without separating. If he files, I will deal with that then. In the meantime, I am just making the best of every moment that I can.
Posted By: wayfarer Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/15/20 02:44 AM
I have rosè and truffles. Let’s drink and eat chocolate together!

But as a side note you sound the most calm and collected that I’ve seen. I’m sorry things are going this way for you but you are so much stronger than you think. You have those babies and yourself. You got this.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/15/20 05:32 PM
I have not seen H since yesterday morning. He did not come home last night. And I am at peace with my decision to completely detach from him and move forward without him at this point. In my view, H is dead to me and an alien monster has invaded his body and moved into my basement.

My BFF was seriously surprised that he would stay out on Valentine's Day, but I am not. With what I have seen the past 3 months, I know I am dealing with a mentally unstable MLC Monster who has absolutely no moral compass. And to think that he tried to be intimate with me after the second BD earlier this week. I don't need this chaos! Detaching and choosing joy to the extent that being joyful in the midst of his crisis is possible.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/15/20 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by "HesAble"
Detaching and choosing joy to the extent that being joyful in the midst of his crisis is possible.

Yay! Wishing us both joyful days. It's impressive you didn't let his V-Day antics affect you more.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/16/20 02:26 AM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Yay! Wishing us both joyful days. It's impressive you didn't let his V-Day antics affect you more.


I have impressed myself with how I have dealt with H's V Day antics!!! I have not spoken to or seen him since Friday morning and I am not even worried because he stays out so much now. This is the kind of behavior I expect from him now.

I think the second DB this week was the final straw. It was a wake-up call that made me realize that if I did not take some kind of control, I was going to become a complete emotional mess. I have got to stay strong for my children and be prepared to move forward without H.

My IC has been very instrumental in helping me get to this point. She has asked me to articulate exactly what I am losing if I lose the M. When I really started thinking about it, it was very difficult to articulate the good memories. H, even before this crisis, had a lot of faults. I did too but the problem is H always refused counseling even when we had major marital issues like his previous infidelity, his alcohol-related troubles, and his financial irresponsibility. I was always willing to work on my issues (SSM, irritability at H's unwillingness to do chores or help more with the kids, etc.) and to go to counseling, but he would refuse each time I offered. We did not have the tools to fix anything and eventually we both became bitter, then came BD.

I just realize now that H is an alien and I expected him to be out with his AP for Valentine's Day. I mentally prepared myself for the worst, expecting zero from him. I expect him to act like the sorry H he has become and nothing more. If he had come home, he would have greatly exceeded my expectations. Going forward, I expect nothing but the worst from him. This way, it will be less likely to feel disappointed.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/17/20 12:12 AM
GAL activities for the weekend: spent time with an old friend I hadn't spoken to in many years. We talked for hours and laughed so hard until tears rolled down my cheeks and my tummy ached. It was such a blast! I have not laughed that hard in many, many months! So happy to have rekindled that friendship and I plan to rekindle many more in the days to come.

I have planned a trip to see some old friends soon. Something to look forward to!

Hope you all are enjoying your GAL activities this three-day weekend!
Posted By: wayfarer Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/17/20 02:12 PM
HesAble I'm glad you're not going to let him drag you along for the ride any more. It's a really good place to be in. I'm also super happy to hear about the meeting with old friends. I've been reconnecting with people and it's been a huge help to how I feel and how I deal. It's nice to see you this positive.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/17/20 06:21 PM
One thing H did when we married was discourage me from continuing many of my good friendships. He always seemed to find something wrong with my friends. I am not sure if he was trying to isolate me or what. Not spending time with some of my best friends was part of how I lost my true self over time. All I know is now is my time to rekindle those friendships and have some fun!
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/17/20 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by HesAble
One thing H did when we married was discourage me from continuing many of my good friendships. He always seemed to find something wrong with my friends. I am not sure if he was trying to isolate me or what. Not spending time with some of my best friends was part of how I lost my true self over time. All I know is now is my time to rekindle those friendships and have some fun!


-standing ovation-

This is awesome. This is what all of the current LBWs should be doing.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/17/20 09:40 PM
This has been the most effective way to GAL that I have tried! I highly recommend it!

And for everyone who encouraged me when I was an emotional crying mess, thank you! You were right when you said it would get better. I could not believe it then but I am seeing it now.
Posted By: wooba Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/17/20 11:33 PM
Hesable!! I’m so happy to see that you’re doing better. Yes, rekindled friendships are definitely the best side effects of this mess....lol!!

Originally Posted by HesAble
Going forward, I expect nothing but the worst from him. This way, it will be less likely to feel disappointed.

That is still expectation. And it may leave you unprepared for his nicety when it happens. Imagine yourself swimming in the ocean. The tide comes in and out but either way you keep enjoying swimming in it without getting pulled too much either way.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/18/20 02:00 PM
Originally Posted by wooba

Originally Posted by HesAble
Going forward, I expect nothing but the worst from him. This way, it will be less likely to feel disappointed.

That is still expectation. And it may leave you unprepared for his nicety when it happens. Imagine yourself swimming in the ocean. The tide comes in and out but either way you keep enjoying swimming in it without getting pulled too much either way.


I hadn't thought about it this way. So basically I should be detached to the point that I don't care one way or another what he is doing at all? Whether it is nice or mean? Better or worse? Ok, that will require a little more work. I just hope I get to the point where I do not care what he is or is not doing. It just makes it harder to do when kids are involved and they are affected. It irks me when he does things that affect them negatively. I am clearly still a work in progress but I have come so far! Proud of myself.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/18/20 06:05 PM
And some of you may recall that I had started hating weekends after the DB simply because it meant more idle hours at home being aware of H's absence and his antics (after driving the kids around to sports events). Well now that I have these rekindles friendships and am planning to spend time with friends, weekends aren't looking so bad anymore. :-) Baby steps...
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/19/20 01:00 PM
Does detaching mean being comfortable around H because you don't care one way or another? I try to avoid being in the same room with H because he irks me (this is how he acted toward me after the 1st DB last year. I kept wondering why he was working so hard to avoid me.). Guess I'd better keep working on my detachment skills.
Posted By: wooba Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/19/20 02:43 PM
I think so. Basically you are unaffected by him. I think you are getting there. First the sadness, then the anger, and then you wanna eventually reach a place of indifference. Loving indifference maybe. I think compassion is important.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/19/20 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by wooba
I think so. Basically you are unaffected by him. I think you are getting there. First the sadness, then the anger, and then you wanna eventually reach a place of indifference. Loving indifference maybe. I think compassion is important.


I have definitely not reached loving indifference and I could work on compassion. Earlier on, I think I had compassion (oh, he must be in emotional turmoil, he must have been affected by his parents' bad example of marriage, blah, blah, blah). Now I am just like "he is such a jerk, I hope he gets what's coming to him." That is bad, I know, but it is true. I will try to get the compassion back.

Detachment is a difficult balance. Don't care too much, but care just enough not to become completely apathetic.
Posted By: cardinal Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/19/20 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by HesAble
Now I am just like "he is such a jerk, I hope he gets what's coming to him." That is bad, I know, but it is true. I will try to get the compassion back.

Detachment is a difficult balance. Don't care too much, but care just enough not to become completely apathetic.


FWIW, HesAble, I have those kind of thoughts too from time to time, but they tend to be fleeting and replaced soon enough by more of a compassionate indifference, if I don't dwell on them. I think it's helped me to acknowledge that attitude when it comes and not beat myself up for feeling that way, but to actually try to detach from the feeling itself too. I don't feed it, if that makes sense. I let it pass through my mind and body (because the thought is often attached to feelings of hurt, anger, sadness), and move on to whatever else I'm doing in the moment, and it dissolves eventually. I figure the less I focus on it, the more room will be made for compassionate indifference in its place.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/20/20 02:06 PM
So now that I am ignoring H and not wanting to communicate with him or be around him, he is texting more. I am completely ignoring messages that do not relate to the children at this point. I have checked out of the M at this point. I don't know if this is good or bad and do not really care. This is what I have to do to get off this painful emotional roller coaster ride I have been on for months.

In my view, a separation is really what we need. That way, I would not need to see him except when handing off the children to him. He has wounded me so much and I just want time to heal without seeing him/his belongings or hearing him or even smelling his cologne.

I know that true detachment would allow me to cope better but I am not there yet. I am not even sure I want the M to work anymore. I wanted it to work for my children's sake, to keep our family intact but I now realize that it is also harmful for the children not to see a good example of M. What they have been seeing is absolutely toxic and dysfunctional. I do not want them growing up thinking this is what married people do and what wives tolerate.
Posted By: wayfarer Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/20/20 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by HesAble
So now that I am ignoring H and not wanting to communicate with him or be around him, he is texting more. I am completely ignoring messages that do not relate to the children at this point. I have checked out of the M at this point. I don't know if this is good or bad and do not really care. This is what I have to do to get off this painful emotional roller coaster ride I have been on for months.


HesAble this is detachment. This is what everyone has been pushing for for you. Carefully choosing your communication. Going about your life as if he's never coming back. Maybe you are totally checked out and you're ready to move on for real. And if that's the case that's a huge step and that's awesome. But there's a pretty broad line between checking out of his drama and checking out of the marriage entirely you may want to take some time in the future to assess which it really is.

Originally Posted by HesAble
In my view, a separation is really what we need. That way, I would not need to see him except when handing off the children to him. He has wounded me so much and I just want time to heal without seeing him/his belongings or hearing him or even smelling his cologne.


If you've seen my thread recently you know this is exactly where I stand. Slightly different reasons, but where I stand the same. The one thing I'd like you to think about though is my H is around all the time, especially in the last few weeks. He hasn't spent a night away in over 2 weeks. And even then it was only one night every 10-14 days max. Our IHS is barely a separation. We are on top of each other all the time. You guys have been in a self-imposed by H separation for some time now. This is another thing I think some time in the future you really need to sit in and think about. Living in two households means a lot of different things. And you may want to think about what you'd like to go forward doing besides not having him around you like trial separation, legal separation, legal separation leading to a divorce. Some of that you can figure out later but if you're going to ask him to go I think you need to know exactly what you want.

Originally Posted by HesAble
I know that true detachment would allow me to cope better but I am not there yet. I am not even sure I want the M to work anymore. I wanted it to work for my children's sake, to keep our family intact but I now realize that it is also harmful for the children not to see a good example of M. What they have been seeing is absolutely toxic and dysfunctional. I do not want them growing up thinking this is what married people do and what wives tolerate.


Someone posted the other day that there is no real way for a LBS to every fully detach. Because how could a person fully detach from someone they love. I think there's a lot of truth in that. The amount you are detaching is helping you cope. But I strongly suggest an IC and if you have one moving up how often you see them. You've been struggling a while but you are really starting to sound like you know what you want, just maybe not exactly how you're going to get there. They will help you get there, and help you with coping mechanisms along the way. You're so right about keeping your family together for the sake of keeping it together. Kids are never, never a good enough sole reason to keep a relationship together. Especially in a toxic situation. I made that mistake the first time around. Your kids are young enough that they are still very resilient. You have to do what's best for you and them. And in a year or two you all will be in a much better happier space. There's no shame in doing what you know is best for all of you, even if that's walking away.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/23/20 06:14 AM
I agree that I probably need to see my IC more often. Right now, I see her once every 2 weeks. I could probably benefit from a weekly session with her.

I agree that kids cannot be the sole reason for staying in this toxic relationship. Short of a miracle, this marriage is completely dead and cannot be revived in its current state. I pray that my children will be resilient as this saga continues.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/24/20 01:25 PM
No surprise, H was away all weekend and returned late yesterday. Do these wayward spouses seriously not consider that small kids are watching? I totally don't understand the not having a moral compass thing. It baffles me.

I am still GALing and still do not see how this marriage could ever be repaired. He has sucked every single ounce of love/attraction out of me with his narcissistic behavior. If we stay together at this point, it truly would only be for the kids. That would obviously not work. Such a sad state of affairs but I am at peace with it all. I have done what I could to try to salvage things but H has no desire to do so. I am tired of his crap and tired of fighting alone for a relationship that wasn't solid anyway.

Focusing now on the lawyer piece.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/26/20 08:16 PM
This rekindling old friendships has been life-altering for me! I am in better spirits than I have been for months! I am laughing and smiling more. Even my kids are commenting on how I seem much happier. I am even starting to feel like I am actually happier with old friends than I have been with H for a very long time. And while I had been questioning his rewriting history and saying we hadn't been happy for a long time, my newfound good times with old friends is making me start to wonder if what he is saying might actually be true. Perhaps I am happier without his antics after all.
Posted By: Pommy99 Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 02/27/20 12:07 AM
Originally Posted by HesAble
. And while I had been questioning his rewriting history and saying we hadn't been happy for a long time, my newfound good times with old friends is making me start to wonder if what he is saying might actually be true. Perhaps I am happier without his antics after all.


I’m pleased to here you are enjoying GALing - you make it sound so effortless- a state I’d love to get to.

Im totally with you on your sentiments that H might be right on some things after all, as I am starting to feel similar in my sitch. I often hadn’t wanted to admit to myself that things had been as bad as H was making out, but in the back of my mind, I think he is often right. I think this has come about through validating, by actually listening to him and seeing things through his eyes. It’s made me take a look at myself, my contribution to the marriage breakdown and how unhappy I’d become.

Keep up the good work as it seems to be bringing you greater clarity as time goes on.
Posted By: HesAble Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 03/01/20 07:52 PM
Still GALing and working on rekindling old friendships. I am in a much, much better place than I was last month this time. It is amazing how good friends can help you when you are in your darkest moments.

I will see my IC this week. I need to schedule an appointment with a lawyer, although I am now second guessing the first lawyer I selected and may need to research a new one.

Hope everyone has a good week! Hang in there! Things will get better. I am a witness!
.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 03/02/20 10:17 PM
Quote
Detachment is a difficult balance. Don't care too much, but care just enough not to become completely apathetic.


IDK if this will be a good analogy or not, but here goes. When I was a teenager, my cousin and I were like sisters. We lived several states apart, but we wrote letters and couldn't wait till summer vacation came b/c her family would come visit several weeks. Well, somewhere along the way we stopped writing and were busy growing up, getting M and having children. We only saw each other during family reunions every few years or so. The closeness was gone, although we still had a lot of in common. In tragic events, we are still there for each other, but for the most part, we are not involved in each other's personal lives. It use to bother me that she showed no interest in restoring our previous relationship, and she's friendly enough, but it's not the closeness we once shared. I don't know about her activities, and she doesn't know mine. We became detached. I will always have a love for her, b/c we shared the same grandparents and have wonderful shared memories, but our lives took separate paths. It no longer grieves me, b/c people do change. I finally accepted that it is what it is, and I've been able to let it go. I have not thought about it in years, until now.

As I said, it may not be that great of a comparison. Detaching is hard to explain. I know exactly how I feel when I am detached from someone. They no longer affect me emotionally, either way. I'm not angry at them, but I don't try to get cozy, either.

I like the sound of your last post. You sound a lot stronger, so give yourself a gold star. ((hugs))
Posted By: oceangrl Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 03/03/20 05:58 AM
i just want to say you seem to be heading in the right direction. It's really hard, and I admire your work and GALing. I hope to get to the same place.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Stranger In My House Part 3 - 03/03/20 01:51 PM
Originally Posted by sandi2
IDK if this will be a good analogy or not, but here goes.


I think that is a great analogy. Detachment doesn't mean you don't care about the person or don't love them, it just means you're not emotionally invested in them anymore.
Posted By: HesAble COVID-19 stay at home orders - 05/20/20 12:48 AM
Is there anyone here whose spouse is having an affair and leaving the home in violation of their state stay at home order to spend nights with the affair partner? How are you dealing with this?

My H is doing this repeatedly in spite of me confronting him about it.
Posted By: LH19 Re: COVID-19 stay at home orders - 05/20/20 01:01 AM
H,

What did you think was going to happen when you confronted him about it?
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: COVID-19 stay at home orders - 05/20/20 03:06 AM
People have been flouting the stay at home orders the whole time. You can't tell people how to live or that they must stay home. Don't use this situation to try and control him
Posted By: SteveLW Re: COVID-19 stay at home orders - 05/20/20 12:10 PM
He is a grown man. He makes his own choices. You using the "flouting of stay-at-home orders" tact sounds to me like you trying to control the situation.

Let me ask you, was there a part of you that deep down, when you heard that a stay-at-home order was issued, thought "Good! Now he won't be able to go see OW!" And when he started flouting that it disappointed you because you had a false expectation. Remember, NO EXPECTATIONS!

If he is willing to lie and cheat and violate his sacred vows, why would he abide by a toothless stay-at-home order?!?
Posted By: job Re: COVID-19 stay at home orders - 05/20/20 12:40 PM
I have merged your two threads together. Please stick to one thread until you have reached 100 postings.
Posted By: HesAble Re: COVID-19 stay at home orders - 05/20/20 07:27 PM
I get everyone's point about him being a grown man and that I should not use the orders to try to control him. However, I feel that him going out only he and God knows where interacting with people is putting our kids in jeopardy of contracting coronavirus. Maybe I am alone with these concerns.

I know he does not care at all about me and whether I am sick, dead or alive, but I thought he just might care a little more about the kids.
Posted By: LH19 Re: COVID-19 stay at home orders - 05/20/20 07:31 PM
H,

Those are valid concerns and you can ask him to move out.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: COVID-19 stay at home orders - 05/20/20 10:26 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
H,

Those are valid concerns and you can ask him to move out.


This. I'd add one word: sternly.
Posted By: HesAble Re: COVID-19 stay at home orders - 05/20/20 11:15 PM
I have asked him to leave several times and he has not done so. He claims he will not be able to contribute to any joint bills if he moves out and uses that as his excuse.
Posted By: Traveler Re: COVID-19 stay at home orders - 05/20/20 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by "HesAble"
I feel that him going out only he and God knows where interacting with people is putting our kids in jeopardy of contracting coronavirus. Maybe I am alone with these concerns.

It's valid to be concerned about an extra exposure, but to put things in perspective, your risk profile is about the same as if he divorced you and remarried her, which is legal and common in the US. It's frustrating to raise your concerns and have them fall on deaf ears, but consider limiting risks that are under your control--e.g., visits to shops, good handwashing, and protective gear. Maybe he'd be more willing to comply with those methods of limiting exposure since they don't require him to discard someone important to him.

Of course, if you can get him to leave, that's even better. wink
Posted By: HesAble Re: COVID-19 stay at home orders - 05/22/20 05:24 AM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by "HesAble"
I feel that him going out only he and God knows where interacting with people is putting our kids in jeopardy of contracting coronavirus. Maybe I am alone with these concerns.

It's valid to be concerned about an extra exposure, but to put things in perspective, your risk profile is about the same as if he divorced you and remarried her, which is legal and common in the US. It's frustrating to raise your concerns and have them fall on deaf ears, but consider limiting risks that are under your control--e.g., visits to shops, good handwashing, and protective gear. Maybe he'd be more willing to comply with those methods of limiting exposure since they don't require him to discard someone important to him.

Of course, if you can get him to leave, that's even better. wink


Yeah, clearly this woman means everything to him, so much so that he is willing to jeopardize all including his children's health, to be with her several nights a week. I give up. I am actually out of DB mode at this point. He utterly disgusts me and, if this is the person he has become, reconciliation is no longer a goal. He has done too much damage to the relationship.
Posted By: Spiral Re: COVID-19 stay at home orders - 05/22/20 06:13 AM
Well, even if you don't want to R, I'd recommend staying in DB mode for you. Personally, I live alone with my children and have for two months. DBing has been great for my mental health.

But, if you can get him to leave, that does sound ideal.

Keep the Faith,
Spiral
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