Hi everyone,
Reading forums and finding BenB brought me here (I am also from Scandinavia). Thank you BenB!
Just ordered the DR book and have started reading several posts here (seeing all my mistakes), but finding time is hard when trying to GAL and spending time with the kids. Actually at work/office right now (saturday) to get some space and quiet.
Me and W met almost 12 years ago (she was 18) and have actually lived together almost as long. We have gone through different phases but in general never had a real fight. Our biggest crisis was when we were getting our first child and I wasn't sure if I wanted (went to a counselor and had some really tough months). We have also struggled to get enough sex (whatever that means) and since we got our first child we have had several times that we didn't have sex for several weeks and even months. Typically W needs to have "the right feeling" for sex to happen. We (mostly she did) talked about this as a problem but never deep enough. I see now that I really should have taken this much much more seriously.
Timeline:
*Almost 3 years ago we got our 2nd and moved to our first house. We both love(d) the house but since W didn't have a drivers license and was on maternity leave she was quite alone the first year (I also traveled a bit for work).
*Fall 2018 she started a new job in a completely different role (salesman) and with more money. The ppl at work are also very different to most of her older friends. (At this time we also started to plan our wedding for 2019)
*In April last year (after a period of unusually high amounts of sex in January and February) I started to feel something was wrong. End of April she and another female co-worker spent the night at a male co-workers apartment. Our house is a bit remote and at this time I didn't think much about it.
* May/June we talk fairly often but she never really communicates her feelings and I don't really understand if its about me or life in general or something else. Says she's having second thoughts about the marriage but doesn't want to stop it. Spends way more time on her phone and I see she often Snapchats to the male co-worker.
*The summer was fairly good but low intimacy and not that real connection we usually have. I kept trying to get answers but she avoided to talk.
*The wedding was actually amazing and we had a blast.
*We had a mini-honeymoon weekend with our first sex since February she cried a bit after and when I asked why she said it was so much feelings since we hadn't had sex for so long.
*September things got really bad again, she hardly smiled and it got real tense between us. Especially after I found out (after checking her phone (which I have stopped doing)) that she had feelings for the male co-worker. She said it was feelings she had in May but that they probably had passed... I ask repeatedly if something has happen but she says no. I see she doesn't always wear her ring and I comment on it.
*October she finally admits its about me and her and I eventually say she has to make up her mind if she wants to give our M a chance or not, because not talking is only making things worse.
She also goes and buys a very expensive bag, which is something she would have laughed at a few years ago.
I started seeing a coach who I am still seeing. Has helped a lot.
*6th Dec she drops the bomb and says she wants to separate. I jump in to things and start planning practical things rather than say WTF? After a few days I realize what is actually about to happen and say I need more time to talk and understand. I ask if she wants a D but she never really answers..
*I book couples/family therapy but she doesn't show up, says she forgot...
*Spends the night after a night out at the male-coworkers place but lies to me about it. I find out after asking her sister the next day if W is awake but she isn't even there. Her sister get worried and calls immediately. I confront her again that evening and ask repeatedly if something is going on or has happend. "Not even a touch on the leg?" But she claims no and even says that HE has said that nothing is going to happen. That they are just really close friends...
*We spend Christmas apart (she with her family and me and the kids with mine). She completely avoids my family with whom's she has had a very close relationship over the years. Just sits in the car when leaving the kids...
*We spend new years apart and after have spent most nights apart since. She mostly sleeps at her sister place but has also told me (rather than me finding out later) that she slept 2/3 times at his place. We alternate living in the house together with the kids (whom we have not yet told). When I tell her that we will be splitting costs (I pay more) after the separation she is surprised and says she hasnt really thought about this. I even make her an Excel sheet with all our costs so she can do her own analysis. Pretty sure she never opened it again though.
*One night we have a really close talk, laugh, cry together, hug and she says "I love you" and I can hear she means it. She even says she sometimes get hope for us as a couple some time...
*We go to our first couples therapy mid January and it is a good session, we talk about our love and quite a bit about her and her youth. She cries and hugs me several times (she hasnt cried almost at all through this whole process). However after she says it was awful and probably doesnt want to go back.
*A week later we have had very little contact and I remind her about the next appointment time. She dosen't really answer me, as usual. One day when we're supposed switch she asked to do it the next day and after asking she admits she has filled here lips and doesn't want to show the kids yet.
* Of course she doesn't show up to the third session (three days ago). "Didn't you cancel it? I said it was really hard on me didn't I?" I get angry and text her several things including things like "Are you ever going to meet ME in this? Right no we are on a path to never having contact again, other than about the kids!"
I also tell her its her actions in this process that makes me frustrated and hurts me the most, not the actual decision to separate. She says she is having a hard time communicating because its natural for her to just want to please everyone and has a bad conscience for everything.
Other things:
I think having a wedding to plan during this process has held us back.
My logical sense says she actually didn't cheat, but to lie about all this is perhaps even worse than the cheat.
W's parents got D'd when she was 11/12 and her mother is diagnosed with some sort of borderline or bi-polar psychological illness (today she and her mother have no contact).
I till have here last name which sometimes feels really weird. I wanted to switch, but now...
I talk a lot with my brother about all this, but reading posts here it seems most ppl suggest to avoid that.
Most of me wants to just talk and understand more but I am also starting to feel like "going dark".
Id really like to hear you perspectives on things but also have a few questions right now:
Ben said to avoid counselling as much as possible, do you agree?
How and when do we tell the kids? I don't really want to say "WE dont love each other anymore" since this is her doing. At the same time I have read it isn't good to portray any sort of blame when talking to the kids.
I have been considering filing paper since I am getting tired of all this. Like show up one night with the papers signed and ready, only waiting for her signature. Would you wait?
My coach said I need to channel my anger, use it. "Ask yourself: "Is this OK with me?" If not, ACT!" Whats your take on this, I am typically someone who is never really angry and avoid conflict.
I exercise and play computer games to take my mind of things. GAL tips are appreciated
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Journaling
I am not sure I will ever forgive her for doing this to the kids, so easily and without really giving us a chance.
M,
That’s a normal feeling that may change in time.
Today was a "change" day, time for me to have the kids and live in the house.
She had clean everything real nice, and rearranged some things to sort of re-decorate. Seemed like she wanted praise or a compliment, I basically said well this looks nice but with low enthusiasm. Is that a sort of validation?
I also asked if she had done something to her hair and told her she was pretty... Was that bad? This stuff is real hard.
I did let her initiate conversation though which actually felt good. Last few months its always been me.
Booked my Coach/IC tomorrow, cant really get my head around what to say to the kids... It's going to be awful, I'm dreading it!!
M,
That’s a normal feeling that may change in time.
Thanks LH, whats your take on my situation and my questions?
When your wife does something that merits recognition, give it to her. Show her that you noticed the effort she has put into cleaning the house or fixing herself up. There is nothing wrong in giving praise and compliments when the spouses do something right.
Do what works and if something isn't working, then don't do it again. There is no perfect way to handle spouses who are "out to lunch", so to speak. It's a trial and error and we all make mistakes. Just pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue moving forward
Also, there is nothing wrong w/you booking IC for yourself, but at this time MC is not recommended until she is willing to go. She may end up going to IC on her own, but time will tell.
The Coach/IC will give you some ideas as to how to broach the subject w/the children. Just calm down and breathe. Keep the focus on you and your children.
Do what works and if something isn't working, then don't do it again. There is no perfect way to handle spouses who are "out to lunch", so to speak. It's a trial and error and we all make mistakes. Just pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue moving forward.
Sometimes you have to do something for a period of time (vs just once) to see if it is working.
I have at least 2 definitions of "it Working".
1) Changing your behavior. If you always argued, and then you switch to validating, and then you validate once, is that working? OR are you validating all the time and not arguing? Is that working?
The other "is it working?" is a positive change in the spouses behavior based on your change.
IRT house cleaning say "Thanks, the place looks great".
IRT decorating "You have nice taste " or "Beautiful" with a smild.
Big picture you need to move into your house full time. It sounds pathetic to even write it like that, but dude....she cheats and you move out? WTF? She has been and is cheating, make the truth your shield, don't run from it. You need some strong Male support.
Quit reminding her of the appointment and quit going. She doesn't want to work on the marriage, don't you see that?
Your story is like so many here. You need to start reading other's situations and learning quickly.
I till have here last name which sometimes feels really weird. I wanted to switch, but now...
What does this mean?
Don't worry about telling the kids anything together. Be a strong father and tell them mom and dad are having a tough time if they ask.
If her cheating is a deal breaker then file for divorce, I assume it's not since you haven't filed. I can tell you aren't ready to file. Start to heal, learn, grow.
Hi everyone,
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR SUPPORT!!!
It gives me a real boost emotionally , I can't tell you how much it means to me!
Like having another coach.
I will read and really contemplate all your advice.
The only on I might question or need to understand more is to move back in the house.
How is this good? Not exactly giving her space..
Sorry for not being clear. I took her name after the wedding. Always wanted to.
But now it just feels weird.
The only on I might question or need to understand more is to move back in the house.
How is this good? Not exactly giving her space..
She cheats and you move out? Explain your thinking there. Tell me how you look and feel doing this.
One of my friends took his lady's name. It's a tradition that I would never break. Why did you bring that up?
The only on I might question or need to understand more is to move back in the house.
How is this good? Not exactly giving her space..
She cheats and you move out? Explain your thinking there. Tell me how you look and feel doing this.
One of my friends took his lady's name. It's a tradition that I would never break. Why did you bring that up?
To ovr's point, in my sitch my W asked for space. Neither of us left the MBR, yet I found ways to give her space (HINT: GAL like a madman!)
Thank you M for naming your thread after me,
I may not be the best person when it comes to giving advice to others as I´m still learning a lot but you are in good hands here. I would recommend reading as many threads as you can and read what for example Sandi has to to say about attraction. For a woman to feel attraction for her husband she needs to respect him.
She wants to end the marriage? Fine, she can move out. Why would you? But as Steve says, GAL like a madman. I didn´t GAL enough during our worst periods. Deep inside I still wanted to be close to my W and made excuses to be home, thinking I would push her away by leaving her be. If there is one thing I regret and would do differently, it´s to GAL much more and in your case I definitely wouldn´t move out. If she wants out of the marriage, let her do all the heavy lifting.
But read here as much as you can. I´ve read thousands and thousands of pages for about 10 months now and older threads have helped me a lot. They contain advice worth gold.
Im back after 8 meetings at work and a logistical nightmare yesterday. Exhausted going to bed but still couldn't sleep..
Traveling for work this week, will make sure to get a lot of reading done.
A bit afraid that DR will arrive in the mailbox while W is home.
Also, her sister reached out. If we speak, I Will focus on care for W and mention I'm shifting focus to me.
The only on I might question or need to understand more is to move back in the house.
How is this good? Not exactly giving her space..
She cheats and you move out? Explain your thinking there. Tell me how you look and feel doing this.
One of my friends took his lady's name. It's a tradition that I would never break. Why did you bring that up?
To ovr's point, in my sitch my W asked for space. Neither of us left the MBR, yet I found ways to give her space (HINT: GAL like a madman!)
Until recently I guess I avoided/ choose to not see it at cheating...
In my case a big miss-step is we/i started planning everything together which in a way means I accepted it. At least at that point.
My biggest problem atm though are the kids. I know from studies on kids in a D/separation that living under the same roof isn't the best idea. Did Steve n Ovr have kids in your sitch? I don't want them to take unnecessary hurt in any way...
To ensure clarity.
I haven't moved out. Atm we alternate living with the kids in the house.
She says she can't really focus on the kids if we're both at home.
We own the house 50/50 (in legal terms).
Getting an extra apartment where we live is very hard and/or expensive.
Maybe one way could be to tell the kids what's going on and then one of us sleeps in the extra bedroom...
I know from studies on kids in a D/separation that living under the same roof isn't the best idea. Did Steve n Ovr have kids in your sitch? I don't want them to take unnecessary hurt in any way...
There's a gazillion studies out there that say whatever the person funding the study wanted it to say. I don't like where your train of thought is going. Your kids are going to take unnecessary hurt in this, in school, in life. That's why you teach them, that's why you SHOW them that life in 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond to it.
I know you're in Scandinavia. I'm considering cultural influence on you and urging you to find your own path.
I don't have any kids yet. Steve does. Your sitch is more like mine than his.
You still haven't answered my question though:
She cheats and you move out? How does that make you look and feel?
She says she can't really focus on the kids if we're both at home.
Do you believe this? Was she able to focus on the kids with both of you home before she started cheating? So is it Mumin or is it Mrs. Mumin?
Maybe one way could be to tell the kids what's going on and then one of us sleeps in the extra bedroom...
Plan for yourself, don't worry about where she sleeps. The way you phrased this is super passive. If you think it's right to tell the kids something then do it. If not, don't. I don't see the need to include your wayward wife in your parenting.
DB Basics:
1. Detach - what she says and does does not affect you. You are your own zen master. Attitude - thoughts - actions - feelings.
2. Believe nothing she says and only half of what she does.
3.GAL. Pick up old and new hobbies, change your mental state. Your whole life is out of whack right now. GAL will help change that.
4. Do what works - if you don't know what works, don't do what doesn't work.
5. Always do the right thing. Never give into fear.
I would love it if you went to the gym, made a commitment to say hello to at least 5 people, and worked out like a madman so that you could get some sleep and put some confidence back in your step.
SHOW them that life in 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond to it. &
I don't see the need to include your wayward wife in your parenting.
This post was a boost thank you Ovr!
I will try and answer your questions:
She cheats and you move out? How does that make you look and feel?
One of my biggest missteps has been to start planning things WITH her directly after BD...
One thing we talked about (and I emphasized) was that the kids shouldn't have to move. I wanted to protect them...
Thats the main reason we are in this setup. However I have also mentioned that I might want to buy the house (if I can afford it).
Anyways, when you put it like that it makes me feel dumb and fooled...
Do you believe this? Was she able to focus on the kids with both of you home before she started cheating? So is it Mumin or is it Mrs. Mumin?
Before all this she has always been a loving mother and in general a good parent. But now when we are home together there is always tention..
What do you mean Mrs Mumin? Mumin is just a nickname.
I am very tired so will go to bed and get back to reading during my business trip.
In regards to the last tip I probably have the best form of my life right now, started working out heavily in May/June but atm I need to increase frequency again. Build more muscle.
Help me understand:is the saying Hello thing a specific topic on DB? Whats the goal? I meet new ppl almost every day at work.
If mom and dad get divorced, a lot of kids have to move. Life throws all kinds of stuff at us, your kids will need to learn this. That's why you show them that life is all about what you make of it.
Move back into your house and let her figure out where she goes.
Anyways, when you put it like that it makes me feel dumb and fooled...
Let's call it a starting point.
Before all this she has always been a loving mother and in general a good parent. But now when we are home together there is always tention..
What do you mean Mrs Mumin? Mumin is just a nickname.
By Mrs Mumin, I mean your W. Your W is now saying that she can't focus on the kids with you there but what she means is that now that she is cheating she can't focus on the kids with you there. F that. Maybe she should take a hike if her cheating has been so hard on her. The fact that she puts it on you and totally ignores you and her vows to you shows me that she has no respect for you right now.
Good job on the gym, crank it up, add in extra stuff. Sharpen your mind too (AKA read more). All of these things will help with sleep.
M,
Ok we will start with the good. You have Bene B in your corner and her is a very good dber and you are going to learn so much if you stick with us that you will be able to read all the signs. I'm going to be brutally honest with you.
You should have never gotten married. You married a woman who was and still is in an active affair. Not having sex 6 months prior to your marriage is a serious red flag that will be unacceptable to you moving forward. Right now your W is unsure where she stands with the new guy and that is why she went through with the marriage because he is unwilling to commit. If he was he would have talked her out of getting married. Right now she has no respect for you mostly because you are willing to share her with another man. If you are doing this she will never be able to feel safe with you.
Things you need to stop immediately. Stop making appointments for MC. If there is another appointment ever made again it will be by her. No more leaving your house. That is your castle and you will not spend another night in that shitty apartment. She can live and stay wherever she wants and it doesn't effect you in anyway. Stop playing computer games. It is unproductive and unattractive for a 30 year old man.
Every move you make needs to be made from a place of strength. Take the focus off you W and place it on you and your children. If you do this your w will notice and possibly rethink her decisions.
Im back after 8 meetings at work and a logistical nightmare yesterday. Exhausted going to bed but still couldn't sleep..
Traveling for work this week, will make sure to get a lot of reading done.
A bit afraid that DR will arrive in the mailbox while W is home.
Also, her sister reached out. If we speak, I Will focus on care for W and mention I'm shifting focus to me.
The only on I might question or need to understand more is to move back in the house.
How is this good? Not exactly giving her space..
She cheats and you move out? Explain your thinking there. Tell me how you look and feel doing this.
One of my friends took his lady's name. It's a tradition that I would never break. Why did you bring that up?
To ovr's point, in my sitch my W asked for space. Neither of us left the MBR, yet I found ways to give her space (HINT: GAL like a madman!)
Until recently I guess I avoided/ choose to not see it at cheating...
In my case a big miss-step is we/i started planning everything together which in a way means I accepted it. At least at that point.
My biggest problem atm though are the kids. I know from studies on kids in a D/separation that living under the same roof isn't the best idea. Did Steve n Ovr have kids in your sitch? I don't want them to take unnecessary hurt in any way...
To ensure clarity.
I haven't moved out. Atm we alternate living with the kids in the house.
She says she can't really focus on the kids if we're both at home.
We own the house 50/50 (in legal terms).
Getting an extra apartment where we live is very hard and/or expensive.
Maybe one way could be to tell the kids what's going on and then one of us sleeps in the extra bedroom...
Yes I have a daughter. Unfortunately, my D was going through her 15 year-old, finding her independence stage at the same time as my sitch. In a way it helped my sitch because my W and I had to coparent through that. And it helped me GAL since my D was doing her own thing. But it hurt to see me losing my W and my D at the same time. None of these sitches are easy. Make your kids the #1 priority (#2 if you are religious at all as I always advocate making God #1), and then yourself. Your W right now should be way down the list since that is what she asked for.
To ensure clarity.
I haven't moved out. Atm we alternate living with the kids in the house.
Also, I think this statement is a major contradiction. Move back in your house and stay there full time. Quit moving out to accommodate, hoping this will bring her back.
Trust me, I did this too. I tried giving my W the MBR, staying at my parents...it's pathetic. You are a man with a wife and kids and responsibilities. You do not leave the house.
I'm not saying you have to go all berserker on your W and OM, but you can't be a softie either.
Hi Mumin. Sorry you are here. You are getting full good advice. Trust the process. Take your time to carefully get into everything.
Detach, GAL.
Get your house back. She wants out? Let her go. No fear
make the truth your shield
Love what ovr wrote
Back from my business trip. Met W less than 2 hours this morning and then she left...
Anyway, DB has really made me see things more clearly and put perspective on W's actions. Big thanks to EVERYONE!
Some updates on DB since I started posting:
*ZERO contact with W apart from kids homework this past week.
She reached out to me before my trip because of the Corona virus. (caring) I eventually responded "Ill be fine".
*Telling myself detach detach detach several times a day.
*Reading 37 rules as often as I can.
*Will ask a larger share of expenses this month (50%).
*Maintaining at least 2 workouts per week but would like to double that. (Def doable but a hassle with the kids
sometimes)
*Reading posts here (Anyone have a good way of structuring what you have read and not?) as well as reading 2 books
Then on to the big question for me. The house.
I have given this a lot of thought and read your posts Ovr (Big ups!). Why this is so hard for me I think is partly cultural but mostly because of the kids. To explain my feeling - Telling W I will be living here feels like I am throwing my kids out of the house, since they will most likely live with her somewhere else. (I really don't have a problem with how it affects W, atm she can get lost)
However, after giving this more thought I have also come to realize that there is a BIG chance that kids living somewhere else will happen anyway. As mentioned I also am strongly considering buying the house in the future which makes it even more natural for me to live here. And actually less for her. So atm I am trying to find a good way to tell her this and to prepare myself for her responses. Any tips are greatly appreciated!
One thing I have considered is to actually sign D papers and tell her she has 6 months (required for final D since we have kids) to get things settled. "Till then I will live out of the house but I am moving on so you wont see me much when its your time with the kids."
So to the latest update (from today):
I told her I am ready to talk
when she is ready but that I am done "pulling" and focusing on her, now I will focus on me instead. (I actually dont think she wants to talk at all and she just thinks things are nice as they are now.
So ignorant!) However, I said I feel its time to talk to the kids and was expecting us to do that this weekend. (If she doesn't reach out about this in the next few days I will probably tell the kids myself even though we agreed earlier to do it together (ofc not tell them everything, just that we're having rough time)).
She asked what I meant with focus on me and said I'm reading about relationships, kids, sex etc and want to become a better me.
She said she thinks we haven't challenged/pushed each other hard enough, "friction is good in relationship". I agreed (validated?) and said we didnt have the best platform starting of as teenagers.
I talked a bit more about my thoughts lately. That I have come to realize my part in getting to where we are and also that I am not willing to share her with someone else.
W - "now, you mean?" And I said "not now, not before..."
W - "What happens now and in future is different..."
Abit shocked I said, not different now.. We're still married.
She basically rolled her eyes and said yeah yeah..
After that i said we can talk more some other time.
Oh and I happend to see some "sexy" pics on her phone after she showed me a cute pic of our kids...
My reading here is that the A is in full action.
It hurts me really bad (thought a lot about it today) and makes me furious.
Right before she left she also said She told some people at work that we're having a rough time.
Me - How did it feel, telling them?
W - Felt good to tell.
W - Told them you're the best dad ever and that feels comforting.
The reason she was leaving (she claimed) was a second consultation for a breast surgery that she has scheduled..
Sorry, was also going to answer some replies but D1 woke up couching and I had to put her to bed again.
Will answer more later. Now sleep
Bit of a backfire today. Was talking to sister in laws boyfriend (for a good reason) and asked if they had heard from W.
Less than an hour later W textd, "If you wanna know where I am just ask me instead! "
Aaaand just found birth control pills in her drawer...
She hasn't wanted to take any for years... "not natural"
Hard to detach when you're super angry every other day!
Our current house setup sure isn't going to work now! Wanna throw her out!
Completely f@ing furious, might call her tonight.
M, stop looking in her drawer and try to control your emotions. Whenever you feel like doing something, wait a few days or a week to see if you still feel the same way. Being unable to control your emotions is a unattractive quality. You want to look back at this and be proud of yourself and how you handled things.
We´ve all made mistakes along the way. No you shouldn´t have asked him about your W but just don´t do it again.
Again, do not look in her drawer again. You already know enough so snooping won´t benefit you in any way. You have a long road ahead of you so the sooner you begin your healing process the better for you. Detachment doesn´t happen overnight.
Completely f@ing furious, might call her tonight.
That would be a very, very bad idea. And just pushes her away from you even more. Never act on emotions.
Do not call her! You cannot control what she is doing...but you can control how you react to her behavior. You shouldn't have been snooping. Snooping doesn't do anything but make a person angry because you find things that you shouldn't have.
Just leave it be. You are not her father and you do not want to come across as such. Take a step back, breathe and do not say or do anything when you are emotional. It is best to wait a few days and then revisit.
Go back and re-read the detachment thread. Detachment does not happen in one day, not even a week, but a steady walk in the right direction of not reacting to her antics.
Now, breathe! Focus on you and leave her to her business.
Just like in your wife’s case. When people make decisions based on emotions there are sure to be consequences.
You are all right, thank you! I will wait
However, I am not sure I can ever forgive this.
Telling W I will be living here feels like I am throwing my kids out of the house, since they will most likely live with her somewhere else. (I really don't have a problem with how it affects W, atm she can get lost)
Why would the kids move out with her? She cheated and she gets sole custody? I'm not sure why it wouldn't be at least 50/50 but maybe you have legal advice and experience in your area.
So atm I am trying to find a good way to tell her this and to prepare myself for her responses.
Good idea. Having a plan will help you stay calm and detached.
"Till then I will live out of the house but I am moving on so you wont see me much when its your time with the kids."
I think you should be living in your house 100% of the time and the I don't see the point of mentioning that she won't see you much. Just show her instead. So I'm against this sentence hahaha.
I agreed (validated?) and said we didnt have the best platform starting of as teenagers.
Not quite validation. The situations where validation is warranted are the situations where you sense a feeling being conveyed rather than just thoughts.
I talked a bit more about my thoughts lately.
I would advise you to find someone else to talk to. She is telling you, and more importantly she is SHOWING you, that she doesn't see you as this person anymore.
My reading here is that the A is in full action.
Yes, of course it is. It [censored], Mumin.
Was talking to sister in laws boyfriend (for a good reason) and asked if they had heard from W.
Less than an hour later W textd, "If you wanna know where I am just ask me instead! "
She's right. But you should treat her as if she is no longer yours to ask this question anymore.
Go read those DB basics some more my friend...remember that these tough times don't last. This is your time to grow, learn, and become better. Take advantage of it.
FYI I'm typing on my phone.
So, I DID IT! I told her I'm living in the house.
Feels both good and weird.
Basically I said I have decided I am not going to be a victim.
Only I am responsible for my happiness (read on the forum).
I need to be able to feel good, perform at work and take care of kids.
I am not ok with just moving out. This is my home.
W- this Feels very weird for me!
Me- Yes I understand that but I've changed my mind.
It is your decision to do something (than work on our R) else and find your way. I need to find mine.
W - You have to buy me out then..
(pay for her share of the house)
Me - Yeah, already talked to parents about a loan.
W- Can I sleep out in the cabin?
Me - You do what you want.
She went in to bathroom, started playing music loud. On her phone. Hmmm, I wonder with who?
Then she went to bed in MBR.
I can't sleep in MBR because D1 is sleeping there as well. But I guess it's a first step.
Also, earlier today she called me about day care.
They think we (almost always her) are late to pick up kids.
She started crying in the middle of the call and hung up.
Told her via text it's up to her to handle her share/part.
Telling W I will be living here feels like I am throwing my kids out of the house, since they will most likely live with her somewhere else. (I really don't have a problem with how it affects W, atm she can get lost)
Why would the kids move out with her? She cheated and she gets sole custody? I'm not sure why it wouldn't be at least 50/50 but maybe you have legal advice and experience in your area.
So atm I am trying to find a good way to tell her this and to prepare myself for her responses.
Good idea. Having a plan will help you stay calm and detached.
"Till then I will live out of the house but I am moving on so you wont see me much when its your time with the kids."
I think you should be living in your house 100% of the time and the I don't see the point of mentioning that she won't see you much. Just show her instead. So I'm against this sentence hahaha.
I agreed (validated?) and said we didnt have the best platform starting of as teenagers.
Not quite validation. The situations where validation is warranted are the situations where you sense a feeling being conveyed rather than just thoughts.
I talked a bit more about my thoughts lately.
I would advise you to find someone else to talk to. She is telling you, and more importantly she is SHOWING you, that she doesn't see you as this person anymore.
My reading here is that the A is in full action.
Yes, of course it is. It [censored], Mumin.
Was talking to sister in laws boyfriend (for a good reason) and asked if they had heard from W.
Less than an hour later W textd, "If you wanna know where I am just ask me instead! "
She's right. But you should treat her as if she is no longer yours to ask this question anymore.
Go read those DB basics some more my friend...remember that these tough times don't last. This is your time to grow, learn, and become better. Take advantage of it.
First question, on kids moving. It is more of a feeling. I want to protect my kids and one way of doing that is keeping them in the house, not moving to a new apartment. But as you and many more have said. They Will get hurt/affected no matter what. The house isn't what's important. Love and being therenfor them is. Anyway we will get 50/50 custody, unless we AGREE on something else.
Next week I am taking the kids skiing, with my parents.
About being here in the house 100%. I told her I want to and will be living here, but obviously I won't be here all the time.
Question for DBers. How important is MBR now that I am back in the house? Our house is quite small and we don't have that many beds...
If i say I am always sleeping in MBR that will most likely push her away and make her act even worse..
I'm reading basics every day!
You can’t push her away any further then where she is at right now.
You can’t push her away any further then where she is at right now.
Very true,
.
To explain, lately D1 has gotten used to sleeping In MBR (since there has always been space) so will need to re-teach her to sleep in her own bed first.
On respect, how do I know she is respecting me more?
Living in the house is step 1. What's next?
More tips on getting more respect? Apart from general DB basics (I am really growing btw:) )
Question for DBers. How important is MBR now that I am back in the house? Our house is quite small and we don't have that many beds...
If i say I am always sleeping in MBR that will most likely push her away and make her act even worse..
You don't
say anything... you just
do it. Actions not words. You're a man. Talking looks weak. Actions look strong. Women respect strength (not jerkish or loutish or abusive behavior, but cool, calm, quiet, confident
strength) And right now, this woman has zero respect for you and there is zero chance she will feel anything for you or come back to the marriage unless and until that respect starts to be rebuilt. (Read Sandi2's rules and threads again.)
Will she like it if you move back into the MBR. H3LL NO she won't... but she's wayward, and she's sleeping with another man, so how she feels about it doesn't really matter. You make arrangements for your daughter to have a clean, safe space to sleep, you move back into the MBR, and let your W figure out where she wants to park her cheating a$$ for the night. She is wayward and this is the
only kind of treatment she will respect and maybe, if you take care of your own side of the street (GAL-ing, 180-ing, etc), that she will eventually respond to.
I REPEAT:
She is not the sweet girl you met and married... she is wayward and she is changed. And just in case you are thinking she might come back if you can only end this affair with this current loser, think again. Your W is WAYWARD... a syndrome rooted in disrespect and rebellion, and the affair is just a symptom (albeit a big one). If this affair were to end for whatever reason without her doing the requisite work on herself, for herself, she would likely just move on to OM2, OM3, etc. The lip injections and boob job are not the type of "work" to which I refer, but are HUGE tipoffs to her mindset, here. I, too, had a WW... they primp and workout and get plastic surgery to impress their new man and they can't be "niced" back into the MR with relationship talks and appeasement and "letting them have the house/mbr" and stuff like that. Tough love is required. My own WW did not come back until I finally dropped the hammer and got tough with her. Again, read Sandi2's rules and threads until you have them memorized.
First of all:
Big thanks to all of you, ovrrnbw, LH19, Steve85, job, hoosjim, BenB, neffer, and everyone on this Forum!
Your advice, reading threads and rules are really helping me see things clearly.
Right now I will not do much more in regards to W, focus on me and kids, read, spend time skiiing and enjoying life WITHOUT W next week. I will need to see a bit more of her reaction to last night.
I will order a new bed for D1 and redecorate her room. We have talked about this for a while and its only fair to her. IT will also be a bit of a 180 for me as well as a natural step toward taking back MBR.
And just in case you are thinking she might come back if you can only end this affair with this current loser, think again.
Actually not thinking this at all! I will let it happen because I know she has to see the other side. Also, since they are co-workers and meet every day I can't control it at all. He also lives on the other side of the city.
I have read many threads were LBS wants to or has some sort of contact with sister/brother/father in-law. I want this in some way (especially since my kids are about to get a cousin) but it seems very hard now, they typically don't initiate contact. Sister in law did however say to my brother that she is worried and it would be good if me and her "talked"... Feels like dangerous waters.
Should I wait for her/them to initiate contact? Should I not talk about W and R even if she asks? (Not even sure she knows about OM..
Some other notes that I think are considerable:
Culture and different legal systems DEF play a part here.
Traditional Values are long gone and for instance "traditional" values between men and women don't really exist here anymore. We are equal in society. "No one" goes to church (Actually not a single person I know including at work does) and do not believe in god. Thereby marriage isnt as important.
There is a personal note here that I might want to remove later, I hope that is possible. Job?
W's father is a doctor and it was he who prescribed the BC-pills...
M, don´t make the mistake I made here. Don´t talk to SIL about your W. I did that far too many times in my sitch until it finally hit me that she will be sharing all of this with W. I was very close to her sister. We were friends before I met W and she introduced me to her. But still, they are family and you don´t want you W thinking that you always talk about her. Especially not after she sent you a text like that last time.
The legal systems with divorce, custody and all that are different but the whole cultural differences concern is just your brain trying to put doubt in you. I did exactly that the first few months and my therapist would agree, basically saying that I should take everything I read here with a grain of salt because we´re talking about USA, not Scandinavia. I would say this to myself to justify not following DB principles when it suited me. I wish I hadn´t.
But you shouldn´t worry about that because these differences don´t change how you are supposed to behave and DB. They might change some details but the basic principles remain the same. Follow the advice here and you will be a better person for yourself and everyone around you. And if your W returns and you then still want her in your life, that´s just a bonus. The goal is you right now, you can only control yourself so take advantage of that.
On respect, how do I know she is respecting me more?
Because you make decisions based on your core beliefs and are not worried about how she will react. You know and are confident you can handle whatever reaction she has.
With that said, claim the MBR as yours. If she decides to sleep elsewhere, make it manly. A big picture of a motorcycle or an airplane. New black comforter and bedding.
Little words, much action.
If asked:
H:"I believe it is best I sleep in here"
"Traditional Values are long gone and for instance "traditional" values between men and women don't really exist here anymore. We are equal in society."
Being "equal in society" has absolutely nothing to do with the importance, impact, and effectiveness of traditional gender roles. Men and men and women are women... Our bodies, brains, and biochemical makeup are fundamentally different and we react in different ways to different stimuli. Doesn't matter one whit if you don't believe in God because it is science... based on millions of years of evolution and the survival and mating instincts that are indelibly ingrained in each sex. Whether or not you believe that women can and should vote, run for public office and hold positions of political leadership, preside in the board room, and have every opportunity a man does in society is completely irrelevant in terms of how men and women treat each other socially, maritally, and sexually. Each has a role to play and each is equally important, BUT THEY ARE DIFFERENT ROLES. Repeat after me: MEN AND WOMEN ARE DIFFERENT! Learn it. Live it. Love it. You can cry and scream and pontificate all you want about "Strong women" and "not being submissive to men" but, at the end of the day, it is quite simply ingrained in the female psyche and libido that she respects a strong man. Note that I did not say "controlling man" or "domineering man" (though some undoubtedly like that as well) but "Strong" man... as in confident, in control of himself, self-assured, capable in a pinch. I dont care what your society teaches you or what tripe you get on television or radio or whatever over there, but... if your W does not respect you she will not be attracted to you and you have zero... I repeat ZERO chance of saving your MR.
And part of that is not lying down for her when she is wayward and cheating on you. I applaud your plan to get back into the MBR by first making a room for your daughter... but I would not delay in doing it. Don't find excuses but ACT.
I have read many threads were LBS wants to or has some sort of contact with sister/brother/father in-law.
Yea, don't do it. I understand the urge. I was the worst. Go read my thread (click my name, click show forum posts, click page 1). I was doing the full court press. It only made things worse.
I would stay very noncommittal about talking with your sister in law. Have plans. She won't tell you the truth anyways, her sister comes first.
Isn't that the Viking way? I kid, I kid. But seriously, don't worry about it, you can't control it.
Definitely sleep in the master bed.
With that said, claim the MBR as yours. If she decides to sleep elsewhere, make it manly. A big picture of a motorcycle or an airplane. New black comforter and bedding.
Little words, much action.
If asked:
H:"I believe it is best I sleep in here"
Thanks R2C to the point and simple!!
Hoosjim thanks for your points!
I wasn't really clear on the MAN and WOMAN thing. I am fully aware of that there ARE differences and if I have learn anything on that regard, it is that i havn't made them clear enough in our R.
My point here was simply to make it clear for others on the forum that the fact that we are married doesn't really matter where we live. There is no real "belief" that will keep her in the marriage. In some cultures marriage it self has a lot more value (rather than just a fun party and some legal consequences).
So for me this means DB and getting Respect is even MORE important. With W or with any other woman.
I applaud your plan to get back into the MBR by first making a room for your daughter... but I would not delay in doing it.
Thanks! Looking at furniture today, will order next week when we are away skiing.
Actually read most of your thread already since you earlier said our sitch's were similar.
Totally agree.
However (while it may be early in) I see a difference. Your W was asking you all these questions about "at lake?" "who u with?" etc. Mine is dead silent almost all of the time.
I will maintain my current approach for a while but "don't do what doesn't work" will come in to play eventually I guess.
Also, I realized that I have never used the word affair or unfaithful when talking to W. Whats your take on this?
I wasn't really clear on the MAN and WOMAN thing. I am fully aware of that there ARE differences and if I have learn anything on that regard, it is that i havn't made them clear enough in our R.
My point here was simply to make it clear for others on the forum that the fact that we are married doesn't really matter where we live. There is no real "belief" that will keep her in the marriage. In some cultures marriage it self has a lot more value (rather than just a fun party and some legal consequences).
So for me this means DB and getting Respect is even MORE important. With W or with any other woman.
Understood, thanks for clarifying. It's just that sometimes with a not insignificant number of folks it is
not always clear... and that is the problem. Societal and sociological "norms" change... but we as human creatures do not. It creates conflicts with who we are and what are relationships are meant to be. It is not at all unusual these days for men/husbands to become "overly domesticated" (for lack of a better term)-- too caught up in caring for the children's every whim (and here's a big tip-- it's actually really good for kids to suffer some hardship and learn to figure things out on their own) and losing sight of attracting their "mate". Some of this is natural and has proven scientifically to be so (husbands and wives both become more "domestic" and nurturing/protective when children are born, it is hard wired into us), but society/media increasingly tells us to do/expect certain things, act certain ways, and distracts us with, well... distractions. It is disheartening that so much of media/society these days is focused on "doing what feels good" and pursuing "happiness for yourself" at all costs, and seems to accept if not outright encourage the free trading out of old relationships for new ones. (My best friends Ex-Wife-- my own wife's sometimes bff-- believes that marriages should be a 10 year contract that come up for reconsideration and renewal every 5 or 10 years-- yikes!) It is also unfortunate that so much of the man/woman dichotomy and gender/relationship roles has become so conflated with political positions and arguments that you almost can't have an intelligent/objective discussion about it anymore... but the differences, as I noted previously, are important, have NOTHING to do with equality/inequality/opportunity/oppression, but EVERYTHING to do with the strength and health of our marital relationships. I am gratified to be able to come to this forum and still discuss things in that light.
Anyway, Keep up the good work, and hang in there. Demand the best of yourself, and demand/expect/work-for the relationship you deserve (and not necessarily just the one "society" seems to indicate you "should" have.)
Actually read most of your thread already since you earlier said our sitch's were similar.
Totally agree.
However (while it may be early in) I see a difference. Your W was asking you all these questions about "at lake?" "who u with?" etc. Mine is dead silent almost all of the time.
I will maintain my current approach for a while but "don't do what doesn't work" will come in to play eventually I guess.
Also, I realized that I have never used the word affair or unfaithful when talking to W. Whats your take on this?
Yea, my W still had interest in my whereabouts. You can generate this interest too. Make it a point to get to the gym 5 days a week, make it a point to dress well, make it a point to get out and be social. Smile and laugh. Look happy, confident, stand tall, shoulders back, look people in the eye, speak clearly, face your fears. Do the things that will capture a woman's attention.One thing that was funny, I downloaded snapchat and she wanted to know why. She thought I might be seeing someone else and mentioned it multiple times. Your W needs to feel the possibility that you are involved with someone else, that you won't pursue a cheater. I wasn't very confident at first, but I did the LRT and faked it at first.
Also, I realized that I have never used the word affair or unfaithful when talking to W. Whats your take on this?
I never said it until May of 18, when I retook the MBR. I just said "You are having an affair, I'm going to sleep in my bed". My W went berserk (Viking term!!!).
Hi again,
Will try and write more of an update soon.
Short version, W exchanged kids while running for her bus (apparently very important bus, but didn't ask why), had time for a hug (she suggested) but kids were sitting alone in the car so I ran to them.
She didn't seem bothered that she will have seen the kids 3 days in 2 weeks. Sure a 180 on her part...
This was 3 days ago, haven't heard a single word but pretty sure she's sleeping at OMs place... S
Some days are really hard, other not so much.
Some questions I've thought of:
*I've been reading a lot here and started to wonder if I should make my "position" more clear? For instance, the way you've been acting is NOT ok. Won't share a future with you (apart from strictly kids).
*I post some things (sometimes with kids and sometimes just me) on Social media. Maybe she thinks I'm trying to show her how good I'm doing without her? I guess in a way, I am.
*What's a good response when mutual friends ask how I feel?
*Should I Send pictures of kids? For instance now that we will be away skiing without her?
*I've been reading a lot here and started to wonder if I should make my "position" more clear? For instance, the way you've been acting is NOT ok. Won't share a future with you (apart from strictly kids).
Do it in your actions and NOT with words. Being aware of your body language and eye contact are also important. When you do speak, tone and inflects are also important.
*I post some things (sometimes with kids and sometimes just me) on Social media. Maybe she thinks I'm trying to show her how good I'm doing without her? I guess in a way, I am.
I am probably the most boring SM guy besides Steve85. I post pictures of good looking food (like eggs and bacon) maybe once every few months. I strongly suggest that you don't post anything to SM. If you have something to share with someone, get together in person. Be mysterious.
*What's a good response when mutual friends ask how I feel?
Anyone:"How are you?"
You:"I am doing fantastic! I have so much going on that I have a hard time keeping up with everything....
*Should I Send pictures of kids? For instance now that we will be away skiing without her?
I don't see a problem with this as long as you limit it. If you take 50 photos of the kids during the week, send 1. I don't get photos from my X and I don't send her any. You are responsible for your relationship and your memories with the kids. She is responsible for her relationship and taking her own photos.
Some days are really hard, other not so much.
That's quite normal, over time the good days get more frequent!
*I've been reading a lot here and started to wonder if I should make my "position" more clear? For instance, the way you've been acting is NOT ok. Won't share a future with you (apart from strictly kids).
I wouldn't, she doesn't want you anymore (for now) so what does she care about your threats about not sharing a future with her. She thinks she doesn't want a future with you anyway. Plus it's likely to come off as some desperate threat to try and get her back. Often when the LBH figures out he can't "nice" the WAS back then he tries to "mean" her back. When that doesn't work he goes back to nice. Keeps flipping back and forth. It just looks desperate to the WAS. Like R2C said- actions not words.
*I post some things (sometimes with kids and sometimes just me) on Social media. Maybe she thinks I'm trying to show her how good I'm doing without her? I guess in a way, I am.
When it comes to SM then it's best to continue old patterns. If you hardly ever posted then don't go overboard posting content, because she'll see it as pursuit (which you've admitted it is). If you just posted stuff now and then, then continue to do that. But whatever you do, DO NOT post pics of you with a new lady, or memes about marriage, separation or divorce. She's looking for an excuse to blow up on you, don't give her one!
*What's a good response when mutual friends ask how I feel?
"Awesome, how are you?" Be short and generic. If they ask about your M then reply "we're both taking some time to think about what we want" and leave it at that. Make it about you, if they keep pushing then talk about your GAL and what you're doing to be a better person.
*Should I Send pictures of kids? For instance now that we will be away skiing without her?
It depends on her interest level. If she's asking about the kids then go ahead and send one or two of JUST the kids, not of you. If she doesn't ask or show interest at all then don't send anything.
I am probably the most boring SM guy besides Steve85. I post pictures of good looking food (like eggs and bacon) maybe once every few months. I strongly suggest that you don't post anything to SM. If you have something to share with someone, get together in person. Be mysterious.
I am not a big SM guy, either, much preferring personal interactions with folks. That said, I have a slightly different take on it than you in DB terms. I think it can actually be a valuable tool in the "Be mysterious, be fun, be attractive" area. In my own sitch, prior to DB, I had almost no SM presence. i was on FB and Twitter, but barely posted. I was, of course "friends" with my W. Thing is, my W was actually a very heavy SM user (and she still is on some, though we usually do it together), and, in fact, that was one of the chief ways OM (my former friend) targeted her. After DB and after I had passed the initial "gloom and doom and plead and beg" stage, I started to GAL in earnest. Alot of people I know and met had/have SM presences, so I amped mine up a bit. I didn't go crazy with selfies and the like, but when I saw something interesting/intriguing/beautiful (scenery, classic car i happened across, nice sunset, etc) or was having a particularly good outing or day, I would post. But here's the thing-- I didn't do it in a "show all, tell all" kind of way... I'd usually keep my comments cryptic other than to indicate/imply I was feeling great or having a good time, with the occasional funny comment thrown in... and I never directed comments or posts at my W, I'd just put them out there on my thread. Funny thing, W started noticing and "liking/loving/whatever" my posts. Even commenting, some (which i never returned). In my sitch, at least, it was a valuable way for her to see me GAL-ing and 180-ing, and, due to careful posting, being a little mysterious as well: "Wow, that looks amazing... I wonder where he is" or "Who are those people in the background but can't make out... anyone I know?"
So, while i definitely wouldn't say to spend all your time on SM, I equally as definitely wouldn't "strongly suggest you don't post anything". I think it can be and is a valuable way to connect and reconnect with folks as long as you don't overdo it and dont use it so much that she always knows where you are, and, as well, can be a window into your "new life" for your W... a window that you fully control the shutters/blinds on.
The really important thing is you now have three different points of view on the SM thing. I always value AnotherStanders advise and hossjim is giving you solid advise as well.
Hi all, thank you so much for your answers R2C, ovr, hoosjim, AS, ! Super helpful!
Will read through everything with notes tonight.
Journal /Update
Last night wrote about her house keys and that she still hasn't transfered money for this month.
Ask if the surgery is happening.
This morning :
W just called because the alarm in the house went of.
She was home after surgery. She said she Mostly felt good. Physical pain
W- Say hi to kids if you want.
Me- Of course I will.
W- I told D1 she can call if she want.
Me- You can also call if you want.
Shouldn't have said that last part I guess...
I get worked up and almost nervous to talk to her.
I think it can actually be a valuable tool in the "Be mysterious, be fun, be attractive" area. In my own sitch, prior to DB, I had almost no SM presence
This is good.
I am not a social media guy. I have a couple of DB friends on my Instagram who cannot attest that I posted once in 2019. When I downloaded Snapchat in 2018 my wife got a "people you know" thing from Snapchat and it made her think I was talking to other women, dating, etc. It aroused concern. I got rid of that after a week of never using it.
I also made a Facebook in 2019. I mostly regret it, but did it for my business. I found a waterfowl group and met a guy who likes to hunt as much as me so that worked out well. Waterfowl hunting lasts almost 6 months of the year too, longer if you travel for it.
Definitely show your W and don't tell. The best thing you can tell friends is that you aren't 100% but you are moving quickly in that direction (that's my opinion, R2C's suggestion may work better for others).
W- I told D1 she can call if she want.
Me- You can also call if you want.
Shouldn't have said that last part I guess...
Probably a good idea to leave that part out next time, it's not a big deal though.
What money is she needing to transfer?
Hi all,
Ouufgh, like many here I am feeling a bit exhausted. Need to vent a bit..
Just handling the kids 24/7 can be tough, work, activities and all this S@@t this on top...
So anyway, came home yesterday (W not home) and spent all day cleaning and catching up some work.
W showed up late tonight (sunday) and she spent most time with kids and me working, until after bedtime.
She noted that I had started listening to Hard Rock.
Told her Wow when she showed her new chest..
Now after bedtime she came up to me when I was working.
Most important extracts of a quite tense "discussion" below.
I guess I made a few mistakes but held a good tempo/cool and stayed firm/strong throughout.
W - Last time you said your going to live in the house.
Me - Yes thats what I have decided is best for me. It is my home. Cant live with brother. It is what I need right now. This is my home.
W - Yes I know it is your home! This changes things so much...
W - It is not common in a separation to live together.
Me - I don't know. There is such a thing as "in house separation"
W- Maybe I will want to get my own place while you live in the house then.
...
Me - You seem to have moved on. You don't always live with your sister. You havn't met me at all in this.
Mentioned she has been emotionally and probably physically unfaithful.
Started talking about future and she said you have to buy my share. I said I dont know if I can afford it. Either I buy your share or we sell and each get a new place.
Me -This is your decision and the way you have acted I can't see how we would share a second apartment and handle this all together. So the way I see it, now you are responsible for yours and I am responsible for mine.
W - Well ok then. (And she walked off with heavy steps)
Right now she is playing loud music by her self, walking around with heavy steps in the house.
Feeling unsure but glad I was firm on my position. Defnitely some "explaining myself" though...
At work so quick reply to answer some previous questions and to bump my thread.
In regards to social media I have been continuing my previous level.
Staying fun and not showing that much.
What money is she needing to transfer?
She still hasn't payed her share of this months expenses.
"Surgery was more expensive than I thought"
Just handling the kids 24/7 can be tough, work, activities and all this S@@t this on top...
There's an old-ish American saying that I think applies here: make that stuff your B!+ch. It can be tough or you can be tougher. Take pride in being the best in that stuff.
Told her Wow when she showed her new chest..
What? Did she get fake boobs or something?
"Surgery was more expensive than I thought"
If you guys are separated and she got elective surgery that doesn't detract from her joint responsibilities. Do not cut her slack on this. Let her know that she needs to pay her portion of the joint bills. Write everything down so you don't forget or lose track of the financial situation.
I'd shorten up the responses to her questions, especially when she asks the same questions again. She is mainly just complaining that you are living in your own home. Then she started throwing a fit and stomping around the house, being rebellious with her loud music. Ooooohhhh, scary...haha.
If a WW gets plastic surgery to make herself more attractive for OM (which is always what it is for and, in your W's case, is certainly what it is for)... YOU DO NOT PAY ANY PART OF THAT!!! She is doing that and incurring that expense to spice up her R with the OM. You don't even think of dividing the marital "expenses" until she excludes/covers the plastic surgery. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION.
There's no way in h3ll you should have to bear ANY of that expense... c'mon, man! If it was more expensive than she anticipated... OH WELL... LESSON LEARNED FOR HER. Any expenses related to her A or to prettying herself up for OM or for travel to see or be with OM or to otherwise carry on or spice up the affair(and some include cell phone bill here, as well) MUST be borne by the WW.
Are you really going to let yourself be charged $$ so that she can better carry on cheating on you?
What? Did she get fake boobs or something?
Yes
Will I be paying for them? Oh H3LL NO!!!
like you said I will be adding this to the list of what she owes me. I have good control here, trust me
Exceeding 2 grand now.
I will continue processing the bills but from now on I will set a date that I expect her to transfer her share.
As you mentioned Ovr, yeah she was acting real childish. Later I saw that she had cried a bit.
I will never understand the WW reasoning. She will loose everything in this path..
Will try and shorten responses.
Thanks again Ovr and hoosjim
Just noticed that she has chosen to not show ANY pictures she is tagged in with me on Instagram.
Probably she has also deleted/hidden pictures that she has posted of me... (Dont really remember her previous pictures but there's are none of me on her instagram profile atm and I find that highly unlikely given she has used it since 2012. Also pretty sure she always had way more photos than me, which isnt the case anymore.)
This really really HURTS!
I know I shouldn't have looked at this in the first place, but today was the first time she posted anything there in several months so I open here profile and noted the low number of photos...
Do you think I should confront/ask her about it?
M,
What is your goal in the confrontation?
I get the feeling you’re in denial regarding what is going on here.
Hi LH19, thanks for your reply and very good question!
I guess my reasoning was/is to understand why she is removing all parts of me (AND THE KIDS?) from her profile.
Do not see the point really though. Or what I would achieve. So thanks again for your question!
On my change curve I believe I am somewhere in between resistance (2nd) and understanding (3rd) denial phase is at it's end, but still not finished (I believe).
Moving on to engagement (4th) will probably take some time.
But like my previous message said I will never understand the reasoning of a WW and how INCREDIBLY insensitive they can be.
M,
I’m going to disagree with you. I think you’re still in denial.
M, there was a lot of blaming in your convo with her. See below strikes. Obviously you can't change the previous convo but maybe this will help you see how you should talk to her in the future. Be brief and to the point. No blaming, no emotions. Handle it like a business discussion.
W - Last time you said your going to live in the house.
Me - Yes thats what I have decided is best for me. It is my home. Cant live with brother. It is what I need right now. This is my home.
W - Yes I know it is your home! This changes things so much...
W - It is not common in a separation to live together.
Me - I don't know. There is such a thing as "in house separation"
W- Maybe I will want to get my own place while you live in the house then.
...
Me - You seem to have moved on. You don't always live with your sister. You havn't met me at all in this.
Mentioned she has been emotionally and probably physically unfaithful. You have to do what you feel is right for you.
Started talking about future and she said you have to buy my share. I said I dont know if I can afford it. Either I buy your share or we sell and each get a new place.
Me -This is your decision and the way you have acted I can't see how we would share a second apartment and handle this all together. So the way I see it, now you are responsible for yours and I am responsible for mine.
W - Well ok then. (And she walked off with heavy steps)
Will I be paying for them? Oh H3LL NO!!!
like you said I will be adding this to the list of what she owes me.
So you did pay for them. Otherwise she wouldn't "owe" you would she. Have you consulted with a lawyer? If not then do so ASAP. You've got to start protecting yourself from her wild spending. It could get much worse. For her to get a boob job at a time like this is a crystal clear indication that she does not have sound judgment right now.
Mumin,
do not ask her about it. She doesn't want to be with you. Accept it, hear what she is saying, and live like it. And quit creeping on her social media.
This really really HURTS! frown
Only if you let it.
(I'm quoting R2C here)
Also quit floating her bills. If she can't come up with her part of a bill I wouldn't pay it. You basically financed fake boobs for OM to play with and are taking care of the interest. H3ll to the naw.
The fake boobs were "more than she thought they would be"? You should have told her "tough ti*tties".
The fake boobs were "more than she thought they would be"? You should have told her "tough t*tties".
^^^Just laughed coffee out my nose.
M, there was a lot of blaming in your convo with her. See below strikes. Obviously you can't change the previous convo but maybe this will help you see how you should talk to her in the future. Be brief and to the point. No blaming, no emotions. Handle it like a business discussion.
W - Last time you said your going to live in the house.
Me - Yes thats what I have decided is best for me. It is my home. Cant live with brother. It is what I need right now. This is my home.
W - Yes I know it is your home! This changes things so much...
W - It is not common in a separation to live together.
Me - I don't know. There is such a thing as "in house separation"
W- Maybe I will want to get my own place while you live in the house then.
...
Me - You seem to have moved on. You don't always live with your sister. You havn't met me at all in this.
Mentioned she has been emotionally and probably physically unfaithful. You have to do what you feel is right for you.
Started talking about future and she said you have to buy my share. I said I dont know if I can afford it. Either I buy your share or we sell and each get a new place.
Me -This is your decision and the way you have acted I can't see how we would share a second apartment and handle this all together. So the way I see it, now you are responsible for yours and I am responsible for mine.
W - Well ok then. (And she walked off with heavy steps)
Will I be paying for them? Oh H3LL NO!!!
like you said I will be adding this to the list of what she owes me.
So you did pay for them. Otherwise she wouldn't "owe" you would she. Have you consulted with a lawyer? If not then do so ASAP. You've got to start protecting yourself from her wild spending. It could get much worse. For her to get a boob job at a time like this is a crystal clear indication that she does not have sound judgment right now.
Thanks a lot for pointing out my blaming AS!
Also quit floating her bills. If she can't come up with her part of a bill I wouldn't pay it. You basically financed fake boobs for OM to play with and are taking care of the interest. Hell to the naw.
The fake boobs were "more than she thought they would be"? You should have told her "tough t*tties".
Both correct and funny!
I did basically part-finance them with the monthly payments.
Will tell her I expect her to transfer same date every month from now on.
Also seeing my friend who is a lawyer tomorrow.
To the update:
Last night I was home late after work (her time to have the kids but I am still staying in the house).
I walked around fixing things in the house and mentioned I would be getting up early to go to gym.
I could tell she wanted to talk.
W- Dont you think this feels really weird? Us living together
Me- No, not really.
W- Feels like I'm walking around in your house.
Me- Equally much your house
She said she was going to bed but after some wandering sat down on the floor.
Could tell that she wanted to say something and saw she was sad.
I just stood next to her and looked at her for maybe 5 minutes (no one said a thing).
Eventually I say. I can listen.
W- I dont really have anything to say.
I also sit down on the floor.
5 more minutes pass without a word.
W- Its like I never stop and feel.
Me- No. But you will need to eventually.
W- Everyone thinks I don't care. And maybe that just best.
Me-Then you will be alone
W- Maybe thats the best.
Me- You have to do decide what you want/need. But you don't have to be alone.
W (crying a bit)- I'm going to be alone in some small crappy apartment. I'm stupid.
Me- That's your choice
She cries a bit and what felt like an eternity passed.
W- Do you exercise a lot now?
Me- Havnt done as much as I want but at least 3 times a week.
Me- Do you want to say anything else? Otherwise I will read now.
W-No. Went to toilet.
W came back and looked/starred at me with the "please help me" look, but she didn't say anything.
So after a minute I just said. Good night.
She laughed a bit and said good night and went to bed.
Feels like some progress on my part and maybe on hers too.
She's not at home tonight though (my day with the kids) and I am almost certain she is with OM.
Both correct and funny!
I did basically part-finance them with the monthly payments.
Will tell her I expect her to transfer same date every month from now on.
Also seeing my friend who is a lawyer tomorrow.
Just whose boobs are these, anyway?!? If she has a credit card in her name that balance should be transferred to such a card or to some other account in her name ASAP. It is none of your concern and none of your worry, now. I guess you could just stop paying... what would they do, repossess the merchandise?
I don't like this R talk you had with her last night. As long as she is embroiled with this OM, you shouldn't have the time of day for her. You can be pleasant but curt in your responses, but no way should you be having the type of deep, probing, relation-y talks like you just described.
M, have you read much on validation? Maybe go back to your very first thread and read through the links again that Cadet posted. There is zero, and I mean ZERO validation in your responses to W in that last post.
Just came home, will write and answer more when I find time and space.
W saw me approaching the house and went in to th MBR talking on the phone and I think she was talking to OM..
I think I might have to set some sort of a boundary here. Feels like a slap in the face.
Short update:
She has paid most of the money she owed me back.
I have a realtor coming to look at the house on Tuesday. (havnt told W yet but I will)
Oh, and AS I did validate some (should definitely have been more) but I didn't type out the whole convo.
Will read the validation sheet again now before bed.
You can´t stop her from talking to OM and if you try that could push her right into his arms. Also, be careful about setting boundaries you can´t enforce. You´re just going to look weak in her eyes. Make sure you read everything in the boundaries thread. Write here before you make a decision to say or do anything and let the vets guide you. Especially now since you just found this forum.
I would not have a realtor come out unless you are looking to push this further down the path of divorce.
Your can't stop her from talking to the OM, you just don't engage her. If she wants to cry on your shoulder then you show her you aren't that guy for her anymore. She chose someone else so let her cry to him IMO.
Thanks for answers Ovr, AS, hoosjim and Ben
I thought a whole lot last night and as usual acting on feelings is wrong.
Fully realized I cant stop her. In fact I realized it would backfire immediately since I recently said "She is responsible for hers and I am responsible for me".
Write here before you make a decision to say or do anything and let the vets guide you. Especially now since you just found this forum.
Trying to remember this all the time and usually do. Also try and wait a few days till I make a decision.
I would not have a realtor come out unless you are looking to push this further down the path of divorce.
While I fully agree with your point we (me and W) have actually we have already talked about it a bit and my IC also said it was a good move. Earlier today I mentioned the realtor to her.
Having and IC and DB is sometimes conflicting. I try and find my way given all this valuable input.
With regards to D I am definitely considering it...
Update since last:
This morning W was frustrated. As you know she doesnt like that I am home when its her time to have the kids.
She knows she cant stop me but shows it and acts strangely.
This morning she even said " Can I just leave...?" I said sorry I have plans with my brother and D1 has ballet today.
"If your going to be living in the house full time you have to give me your full schedule. I get so tense and agitated when I dont know when your coming and if your coming home" I didnt respond to that specifically. Said I understand it is tough.
After mentioning the realtor W started talking a bit about the future. I said the valuation of the house will have a strong impact on my decision on what to do.
W said that if I buy her 50% share of the house she might pay me rent for the time she is in the house.
I didnt respond. If we go down that path I will want her to get her own place and NOT live here at all. She will get real angry when I tell her.
This road will be tricky and bumpy, for sure.
Keep working on me, Worked out twice today, spent time with brother and his girlfriend (unfortunately they know to much already though, so hard not to talk about W) tried new food, read a few hrs (I usually dont read at all!)
Another morning chat.
Discussing how to handle how she will be able to travel to meet som friends an upcoming weekend when she is supposed to have the kids.
Me- yeah that sounds like a solution but I have to think about what works best for me.
W- I don't understand you, now with your new ways.
Me- how do you mean?
W- Whatever it is your doing, trying to make a point. Living at home all the time.
Me- I'm trying to find a new life. Just like you are.
W-ok maybe I won't go then.
Me- of course you should go meet your friends.
Few minutes later. W Still very agitated.
W- I Don't want to come home the days I'm supposed to be here.
Feels like before, when I wanted to avoid it.
Why would you say "of course you should go meet your friends"? Is it not on a weekend she is supposed to have the kids? Now you are encouraging her to go?
You should have plans the weekend she is supposed to have the kids, if she wants to do something else that´s her problem to solve, not yours.
Me- yeah that sounds like a solution but I have to think about what works best for me.
W- I don't understand you, now with your new ways.
Me- how do you mean?
Don't even ask IMO.
W- Whatever it is your doing, trying to make a point. Living at home all the time.
Me- I'm trying to find a new life. Just like you are.
W-ok maybe I won't go then.
Me- of course you should go meet your friends.
You are explaining why you are living in your own house, to your wife who is cheating on you. This gets a big hell naw from me.
I might put it like this: "I live here. You want out, I wish you the best". Then walk away and go do something you want to do.
Few minutes later. W Still very agitated.
W- I Don't want to come home the days I'm supposed to be here.
Feels like before, when I wanted to avoid it.
I'm torn between whether you should have validated this or simply rolled your eyes and walked away.
Journal
Thanks again for great answers!!
I have to shorten my sentences for sure! (without sounding arrogant or angry. Just precise)
Finding it hard lately to get enough time to read, read again, read other threads.
Last night I mentioned sales value of the house. She asked over Facebook.
She panicked since she for some reason thought I am selling the house.
W- "but we said we would keep the house for the kids sake. We haven't talked about selling (we actually did. Two months ago. But she is neglecting it. )"
My last answer--"I havn't decided how I want to move forward yet. But I am sure none of us think the current situation is great". Then I put my phone on airplane mode.
Today She's back home again. Her time with the kids.
I came home late because work, reading and working out.
She was talking to OM on phone again.
She ran into MBR (where both kids were sleeping) as soon as she saw me.
I know I can't stop her from talking. But how about saying, could you go out to the cabin when you talk on the phone/ talk to him?
Now I think she thinks I'm OK with it...
After she was trying to talk to me. I was packing and prepping for tomorrow.
Wanted to show me pictures and ask about stuff.
Not sure how to handle. Don't really want to talk to her actually.
Specially 2 minutes after she was on the phone with him.
I basically wanted to say: I don't want to talk to you right now.
Is that to harsh when she is trying to talk? Listening, validation etc
So if you say "Could you go out to the cabin when you talk on the phone with him" and she says no, what would be your response? What are your options?
Do you see how that puts you in a terrible position? All you are doing is showing how attached you are.
Same thing with saying I don´t want to talk to you right now. What do you expect to gain by saying that?
The goal here is to become a new, confident you for your own sake. You can bet she will try to talk to you and temp check you from time to time. Would a new and confident you say "I don´t want to talk to you right now"?
To me that sounds like someone who´s moping. Read Sandi´s rules again and again.
Her talking on phone to OM right in front of you is a huge sign of disrespect, man, just huge. She's basically saying: "Yeah, I'm sleeping with this guy... and I'm still living here... and I am going to go talk to him in the MBR. And now I want you to look at pictures with me." I mean, seriously... how does that make you feel? Do you think you deserve that kind of treatment? And how do you think your kids will interpret how you are responding to her and the situation? What kind of boundaries can you think of that might protect you from such treatment.
You need to value yourself and respect yourself. Until you do and until you respect the same from others, especially from her, you will not be 100% of the man that you can be.
At work so will be a bit short.
Why would you say "of course you should go meet your friends"? Is it not on a weekend she is supposed to have the kids? Now you are encouraging her to go?
Havn't yet set a FINAL & DECIDED schedule
+ we talked about her travelling to her friends few weeks back and I said ok.
Maybe I should set up a schedule at home so she can see..? At least "block" my own outlook.
Anyone have tips on the practical side when it comes to kids. Will take some time to get used to the new routines.
Do you see how that puts you in a terrible position? All you are doing is showing how attached you are.
Totally see, thank you SO MUCH for questioning and explaining. What I did was go in to bathroom and shave so I didnt have to listen.
Can you explain moping? Not sure I understand.
You are explaining why you are living in your own house, to your wife who is cheating on you. This gets a big hell naw from me.
Her talking on phone to OM right in front of you is a huge sign of disrespect, man, just huge.
YES! Totally is and FEELS disrespectful.
DEFINITELY dont want to, or deserve this kind of treatment. Thing is I am pretty sure a lot of the times she doesnt realize how it might make me feel.Would like to enforce some kind of boundary but Ben has cleverly explain that this is hard. Luckily the kids dont see this interaction. We are most often not together when kids are awake.
Working on my emotional boundaries (which helps) but that doesnt really affect her.
Sometimes it feels like I shouldn't be talking to her at all. She is either demanding explanations or disrespecting me.
If I follow the typical boundary cheat sheet on this OM hpne thing I guess it would go:
*When you talk to OM while I am here I feel disrespected, and when you do it in MBR I will have to interrupt you when I need something from the closet. Also, you might wake the kids up.
*I want you to keep your business with him elsewhere. Go to the cabin if you want to talk to him. (Maybe scratch that last sentence.)
Enforcing would have to be putting the house up for sale... (I think she knows I am considering it)
"I live here. You want out, I wish you the best"
Have been memorizing this. GREAT response! Thanks!
No off to gym while reading Sandis rules.
We are animals, and most animals can sense when something isn't right.
"Your affair disgusts me, please leave this house". Be simple and cut to the chase. Don't worry about it sounding nice, just don't be rude.
Why are your kids in the MBR?
Mumin, you've been getting great advice from the posters here. I would just like to add, that respect is paramount in these situations. COMMAND respect, do not demand it.
For instance, not even entertaining moving out of the MBR or the marital home is COMMANDING respect. I love the: "I live here. You want, I wish you the best." That is commanding respect.
I get a lot of questions related to why my sitch turned around so fast, and that I was able to save it. As I read other people's sitches one thing comes back: RESPECT. My W never stopped respecting me. She never did anything, even in the middle of our sitch, to blatantly disrespect me. Sure having an EA was disrespectful, but she did her best to hide that from me. But where I see she respected me, even above and beyond her saying she did, was that she never even hinted at staying in the house. Her plan from the get-go was to get a job, get an apartment and get a D. She never broached the idea of me leaving or giving up the house. She didn't even want to get half of everything (I think that was more guilt than respect but I think there was an aspect of respect involved.)
Point? Command respect. Use action, not words. If she gets on phone with OM, leave. Don't tell her you're leaving, just get up and get out of the house. If she does it again after that, do it again. Consistent behavior will get the message across. Consider moving her out of the MBR. Don't tell her to move out of it, MOVE her out yourself. WHen she protests, listen and validate. But stand your ground. "I refuse to share the MBR with a cheater."
And then ask her to leave the house. Legally she probably doesn't have to. But make it known that you don't even want to share a house with a cheater.
You need to command respect, even if it upsets her. Moving her out of the MBR will upset her, but she will upset you.
And you got great advice from hoos. Hoos and my sitches weren't exactly alike, but one area they were is that our WAWs/WWs respected us because we COMMANDED respect. After some bad behavior on our part that didn't command respect.
SO my final point? It is never too late to start commanding respect.
Hi all and big thanks for such great posts!
I have had a VERY busy weekend with the kids, been fun and really enjoyable.
Realized I probably wont be able to buy the house so actually have started looking at a listing of a "new" (smaller and a lot less work needed) house.
Also told the kids tonight (Sunday). Wrote W on Friday that we could do it together on Monday (like the fourth time I bring it up since all this started) and she never replied so I just did it.
At least I am starting to really take command/control of my own life. Feels really good!
Also finally the bed I ordered for D1 should be shipped this week. Might totally re-decorate her room without telling W. That would def be a 180 in several ways.
Anyway, tomorrow night will be the next encounter and I will try and apply your tips. It is likely that she will be talking to him again.
In some ways your replies give me a bit of a mixed message (though I totally agree with and think I understand the meaning). One suggestion is for me to leave the house while another is tell her to leave.
How is "just get up and leave", commanding respect? Telling her to leave seems a lot stronger but not sure I will go there tomorrow. Need to focus on the kids. If she is able to...
IF she talks to him in the MBR I will just go in there and fix my stuff to MAKE her move.
If she asks why intruding i will say:
"I live here. I do as I please in my house."
or
"Your going to act out on your affair here? So the kids can hear? Makes me sick! please leave the house!"
Why are your kids in the MBR?
Kids were in MBR because W cant lift them because of Boob-job. She put them to bed there together and then I actually carried D2 into her room and went to sleep in MBR. W slept in extra room.
D1 likes to sleep in MBR (since years ago) when one of us is not home. Shes a sensitive soul and 5 yrs old so not a strange thing. At least not around here.
This is why I am ordering a new bed and will redecorate her room. She (D1) and I decided this weekend that when she has her new bed she will always go to sleep in her own room.
Wrote to her this morning about telling the kids and that I put the kids in queue to a new school in another area of our city.
W - Oh okey.. Feels weird that you talked to them without me (sad emoji)
W - Feels like your starting to take decisions on your own. And I guess I understand. I guess its hard when we don't see eachother that much. (Total bullshit since she knows we'll see eachother tonight and I asked her on friday).
Me - When you don't answer me I have to take decisions on my own.
W (after wrote about the queue) - I understand. But take it easy H... Feels like you are assuming things and taking decisions based on that.
Haven't answered her to that last one.
Another talk last night. W approached me.
Basically about my texts and what they mean. As suspected she thinks everything stands still in terms of how we discussed things earlier (before DB)
Said I am getting my head around things. Including considering how I want to live when we sell the house. Said the way things are now won't work long-term. (didn't mention any time frame)
Also Made it clear to her that she won't be living here if I buy her share of the house.
Also said circumstances have changed and validated her feelings a bit.
W basically said, I understand that you are different to me now and I feel I don't have much of a say in things since I put us in this situation.
Confessed OM. "I'm seeing OM, which you have probably figured out." (I didn't really comment on it. Should I have?)
She also said you have to understand I have to understand all these changes in my way of handling things are big changes for her. I was screaming inside but validated.
Kept asking me about house and living situation and eventually said something like "I am logging out, you have to make a decision. Tell me when you have Decided."
I think She says this because she feels she won't have a good chance at getting proper housing for her and the kids.
I said you could probably find a place to rent.
Probably sleeping at my brother's place tonight. (for me)
Confessed OM. "I'm seeing OM, which you have probably figured out." (I didn't really comment on it. Should I have?)
No, I think no reply was for the best. I mean what do you say to that? "Congrats, I hope he enjoys your new boobs"?
She also said you have to understand I have to understand all these changes in my way of handling things are big changes for her. I was screaming inside but validated.
Yes poor her. All this business of tearing up a family can be so stressful! Hopefully it doesn't impact her shiny new relationship with OM too much. Sarcasm aside, good job not getting drawn into an argument. You can see how ridiculous she is being but she can't see it. Not right now. I think later she will.
Kept asking me about house and living situation and eventually said something like "I am logging out, you have to make a decision. Tell me when you have Decided."
She needs to get out. Period. Don't share a house with a cheater!
I think She says this because she feels she won't have a good chance at getting proper housing for her and the kids.
I said you could probably find a place to rent.
She's got to learn that life without you may not be the easy street she thinks it is. And the sooner you get her out of there the sooner that process can start.
Thinking strongly about filing for D. Will take six months to process here.
Not exactly keen on being married to someone who is in anothet relationship...
What's you guys take on this?
Will take at least a few days to think no matter.
Hey Mumin,
I don't think you're ready. If this was a 100% dealbreaker you'd have filed for divorce already.
Keep detaching, keep working on your 180's, start GAL to the point where you avoid her R talks. Let that crap build inside of her instead of you always being there to be here outlet. When my sitch was bad, I'd take a change of clothes to work, and go do something and come home late like 10 or 11 pm and go straight to bed. I know you have kids so this makes it harder but just keep looking for ways to make this happen.
Once again thank you for your answers everyone!
I don't think you're ready.
Maybe not. But whats the worst that can happen? Do you think I would go into depression?
Also If I wait for her to do it, and she does it, I think I will wish I had.
Short update and question:
Me and W have since Tuesday had Zero contact, except for her once asking if kids are alright, until today (Saturday).
She is away in another city for the weekend and asked if it is ok that she stays at a friend (female she is travelling with) on Sunday, and then take the kids on Monday.
Really do NOT understand what is happening as it would be standard for me to have the kids all weekend with our current setup.
She doesn't have to ask me that...
Have not responded yet. Any suggestions?
Will probably say something like:
"You getting the kids from school on Monday would be normal so I don't see that you really need to ask."
Now back to fixing D1's room.
The worst that can happen is you end up divorced, and you regret it. And you break your vow. You signed up for the good times and the bad times. These are the bad times.
Just be detached. She texted asking about the kids? "The kids are great". Always answer the question shortly, but just answer the question.
Also If I wait for her to do it, and she does it, I think I will wish I had.
Well the end result is the same no matter who files. Are you sure you're not just saying that because you want to feel like you have "control" of the situation? I mean I get it, we all scramble to find some semblance of control again after BD. But just remember you control you. That's where your focus needs to be.
Short update and question:
Me and W have since Tuesday had Zero contact, except for her once asking if kids are alright, until today (Saturday).
She is away in another city for the weekend and asked if it is ok that she stays at a friend (female she is travelling with) on Sunday, and then take the kids on Monday.
Really do NOT understand what is happening as it would be standard for me to have the kids all weekend with our current setup.
She doesn't have to ask me that...
Have not responded yet. Any suggestions?
As ovr said, keep responses short and businesslike. "Yes that will be fine." No need to point out that you would have them anyway or anything like that.
Will probably say something like:
"You getting the kids from school on Monday would be normal so I don't see that you really need to ask."
No that would be antagonistic. It's like you're calling her stupid or forgetful. My XW has made similar statements and rather than point out her error I just reply back "sure it's fine" or such, and often she will then reply back saying "oh I had my days mixed up, forgot you will have them anyway!" But had I pointed it out to her she would likely get angry about it. Keep things neutral and brief. You don't want to elicit ANY emotion in her. Not joy, not anger. Both will make her mad right now!
Thanks ovr and AS!
My answer was short. Not as good as your suggestions but much better than initial thought.
But had I pointed it out to her she would likely get angry about it. Keep things neutral and brief. You don't want to elicit ANY emotion in her. Not joy, not anger. Both will make her mad right now!
Very good explanation! Thanks!
I will continue to Db and see what happens the next few weeks/month.
There is a small house for sale and at a good price that would be great for me and the kids..
Tonight will be interesting, first time I will se her in a week...
Might be an MBR discussion.
Plan out your responses to what is likely a predictable convo.
Be brief, answer her questions, validate her but then get some sleep.
Ovr, you were quicker than I expected. Didn't plan much more than prepare mentally to be solid/strong. Went well but could have validated I guess.
We chatted a bit about kids, her weekend and my job.
Actually feels weird to socialize with her. Don't really want to.
While I was prepping for my day tomorrow she said she turned the heat up in the cabin.
Me - are you going to sleep there?
W- well one of us is, I guess.
Me- I am planning on sleeping here (pointed to the bed which she was actually sitting in)
W- oh really. (agitated) well ok. Feels like your taking control of the house.
Me- I want to sleep in my bed. That's what feels best for me.
So now she is outside in the cabin.
Found myself looking at her through the window.
Both feel anger and that I miss her at the same time...
Now sleep. Gym tomorrow morning.
Also, realize this might get a bit weird for the kids. Mommy sleeping outside...
Any perspectives or things to say to them are helpful!
This is so much up and down (never as low as before though).
One day I am so ready to move on and feeling stronger than ever, the next I am missing her. Feeling sorry that shes with OM.
Anyway, some thought on above are appreciated.
Also, It is likely she will want to talk about MBR.
What do you guys think about suggesting that we split the bed in two.
Today its one King size bed with a single King size duvet.
Its basically made for laying close to each-other...
M,
At this point it should be nonnegotiable. She has a boyfriend she sleeps in the cabin.
Just politely let her know that you are not open to that idea.
Huge Thanks LH and ovr for a quick reply.
Just politely let her know that you are not open to that idea.
You mean not open to sharing a bed? OR to separating the beds and sharing the room?
Not sure I can enforce her NOT sleeping in the house, given the kids are here and the days that she is actually at home are the days that are supposed to be her time with the kids...
Will think and consider this during the week.
Also question in regards to a post by Steve85 on another thread, by kto626.
So I guess the question is mainly for Steve but obviously open for anyone to discuss/answer.
On the other thread you wrote:
The best thing I can see you doing at this point is to take her Plan B away. I would highly consider retaining a lawyer and filing for D.
I think our sitches are fairly similar however when I have mentioned D it has seemed most ppl say "wait", "let her do it" "how will that help you?" etc.
So how is his situation different? I cant really see that.
To be clear, no matter I fully agree on not filing for D when you are not ready.
So this question is more about whether filing is, in general, a good action or not towards a WW.
M,
It really depends on your values. The person that I am today if I was married and my w had an om I would file immediately. I would not share my w with another man. Those are my values.
What are your values?