Part 1 -
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2866861&page=1Recap for those who donīt want to read from the beginning.- Joined forum in May 2019, been through hell(see summary from thread 1)
- W moved out Sept 28 at my request
- She reached out a lot in the beginning until I told her I want to move on with my life.
- Saw her walking down the street and into a café with some guy early on Sunday morning November 17.
- Since then weīve had some communication, mostly initiated by her and almost always a temp check from her.
- W has now moved out of the apartment I got for her into her own but itīs a short term contract which expires end of 2020.
- April 13 I have to send in a request in writing that I wish to move forward with the divorce and if I do, we are officially divorced.
- Iīve been dating a bit although no one has really caught my interest until now...
Hey Ben! Have you had a chance to meet the new lady yet?
Hi AS,
I deliberately avoided writing here because the date didnīt happen the day it was supposed to. Now I was very suspicious but how could she be a catfish. I have her on Instagram and can see her posts and stories. So I told her flat out - "I hope you really exist". She wrote back that she really wants to meet on Saturday.
So yesterday we finally met. LH is right, there was no way of saying if this can be something in the future based on one date. Thereīs something about her that interests me but I canīt say what. Something in her eyes.
But she doesnīt behave like the average girl either. After the date I sent her a message om Instagram with my phone number(so far we have only been messaging on insta) and said it was fun seeing her. She only liked my message and shortly after wrote what she had for dinner. She didnīt give me her phone number. I just assumed she wasnīt interested and didnīt answer her message. So this morning sent me a picture of a cute pug and asked how my evening was after she left. Weīve messaged a bit back and forth so not sure what to make of it. I think Iīd have to go on a few more dates before I know if there could be something between us.
But I also feel this is too early. A perfect time line would have been if I was single for about a year before I met someone. But canīt really plan those things of course
Journal -
Iīve been doing really well lately. I started a new work out program last month that is a bit intense but Iīm seeing great results already. The girl I went on a date with Iīve been messaging back and forth with and weīre going on a second date on Tuesday. Too early to say but I donīt think this will turn into a relationship and thatīs not a bad thing.
On Sunday my brother and I are flying to New York to eat what has been voted as the best burger in the world. We fly back the next day(sorry climate).
Last night my wifes sisters boyfriend wrote to me and said him and SIL are coming to London April 3-5 to hang out and see one of my shows. I had told them about this upcoming show months ago and was surprised they even remembered. The four of us used to be best friends, traveled together and always had a great time so I am happy to see them again. But Iīm wondering what W is going to think when she hears this.
This morning I get an email from W asking how me and the pug are. Then she asks if there is any way I can sort tickets for a sold out concert for a co worker who wants to take his girlfriend for her birthday. "They would pay of course". She sent this about 10 hours ago and I havenīt answered yet. Iīm surprised she would write this after Iīve clearly explained I donīt want her contacting me unless itīs important.
Hey Ben, after reading your earlier post it sounded like the new girl might ghost you, so it was a surprise to see this latest one about another date! Good luck, hopefully it goes well.
Enjoy your trip to New York! That's quite the jetsetter lifestyle to fly in just for a burger, even if it's a really good one
The four of us used to be best friends, traveled together and always had a great time so I am happy to see them again. But Iīm wondering what W is going to think when she hears this.
I imagine she'll be jealous but I doubt she will say anything to you about it.
This morning I get an email from W asking how me and the pug are. Then she asks if there is any way I can sort tickets for a sold out concert for a co worker who wants to take his girlfriend for her birthday. "They would pay of course". She sent this about 10 hours ago and I havenīt answered yet. Iīm surprised she would write this after Iīve clearly explained I donīt want her contacting me unless itīs important.
Wow, asking for ticket favors again. I would just ignore it, or just briefly reply back that you and the dog are fine and sorry but you cannot assist her with tickets anymore. This just really irks me that given everything that has transpired she continues to try to use you like this.
Thanks AS,
I think sheīs just trying this ticket thing as an excuse to contact me. I wrote back almost that. Just said pug and I are doing fine but that I donīt know whoīs promoting that concert.
Iīm glad I wasnīt the one who brought up them coming to London, since itīs their decision she canīt get angry at me.
Tomorrow is one year since BD for me. Canīt believe itīs been that long.
Journal -
Iīve made some small mistakes I think. The first one was when I responded to her request for tickets for her friend. I should have answered what AS wrote, not that I donīt know the promoter. That sort of leaves the door open for her to contact me again. I should have understood that. And she sure did.
A day later, another famous burger place in my hometown reposted my instastory where I hailed them as the best burger Iīve ever had. W is blocked from my instagram but she follows them and could see their repost. So she sent me a screen shot of that and just wrote "haha :)" She tried to small talk but I kept it short and polite. So far so good.
But so I went to New York with my brother to try the famous Emmy burger(it was just ok). W messaged me when we were at a bar and recommended another burger place near us. I should not have responded and I hate to blame alcohol but I responded that I was in NY about to have the famous Emmy burger. She immediately started writing more -
W: Cool, hopefully not just for the burger? haha.
Me: Yep, just for the burger.
W: Hahaha
30 minutes later she writes again
W: You have to send me a picture of the burger when youīre there!
I should know better than responding to that temp check. Seriously, there are hundreds, if not thousands of pictures of that burger online. But I sent her the video my brother filmed of me taking a first bite of that burger.
W: How was it??
Me: still not better than the one near us
W: What! Thatīs crazy!
I came to my senses there and didnīt write more after that. Yesterday W emailed me again, this time responding to the email where I told her I canīt sort the tickets and said she understands and will let her friends know. She then asked if I can wire her some more of her money so I did but didnīt write anything else. Itīs sad that she asks for money because it shows how irresponsible she still is. End of this year sheīll have no more financial support from me I can easily see how sheīll be in trouble then.
Iīm disappointed with myself because I fear all of the above sends her mixed signals. Iīve previously told her not to contact me unless itīs important but now I'll seem to have softened up a bit. The paranoid side of me wonders if she knows about her sisters upcoming London trip and wants to join in on that. I donīt think so but you never know.
On a different note, I went on my second date with that girl last night and it went really well. More about that in my next post...
Valentines day...one year ago today I bought flowers and a small teddy bear holding a heart. W come home and asked why there are lit candles. I said it's Valentine's day and she started laughing, saying we don't celebrate that. I pointed out that there are valentine's day cards on our fridge from the past 4 years. All from her but that just made her angry. I also said we've done something every year, a dinner, a trip but she wasn't having it.
At this point I still hadn't found this forum and was lost. I had no idea how much worse it was about to get. When I did find this forum, many would remind me that it gets worse before it gets better. And it did get better
Wowthats a pretty nasty Valentines Day! The holiday puts pressure on couplesfor better and worse.
Two years ago, I got my first I Love You after a turbulent weekend and almost breaking up. One year ago, I hosted an Italian-themed dinner party for single friends. It was super-fun. We were happy then. 3 months later she was gone!
Journal -
I havenīt updated in a while but itīs about time I do.
Iīm meeting W for the first time in over 4 months on Wednesday. Here is the background -
Weīve had little to no communication in the last few weeks. Last week, however, she emailed me and asked if she can buy one of my CBD oils. She said she was at a cinema but could come by a few hours later. And if I donīt want to meet her, I could leave it in the mailbox and leave that unlocked. That wouldnīt make any sense of course because my neighbours would come knocking if I had done that but I was shocked that she would ask me for a favor like that. So I never responded.
Yesterday she wrote "Ok, I took the hint, could you please wire me a few hundred?"
I answered "sure , just did. Hope all is well".
She responded that the reason she wanted the CBD oil is because she found a lump under her breast and she is going to the hospital on Wednesday to find out if itīs cancer. I sent her a message on messenger immediately -
Me: Iīm so sorry to hear that. When will you know more? You should have told me why when you asked for the CBD.
W: Thanks. Havenīt told anyone because it makes it real. But hopefully itīs nothing.
Me: Most often itīs nothing. Have you spoken to your sister?
W: The lump feels so different and Iīve got a bad feeling about this. So I donīt want to worry anyone.
Me: Let me know if there is anything I can do.
She thanked me and told me I have to be careful as well with the new corona virus spreading. We wrote about that a bit. I thought about it for a while before I wrote:
Me: Do you want me to come with you on Wednesday?
W: If you want to? The appointment is at 1.30pm.
Me: of course, see you there.
I know this isnīt DB but she has a history of breast cancer in her family and no one close to her lives here. If this is cancer, I donīt want her to be alone when finding out. I hope that makes sense.
As for myself, I have been doing fine. I donīt see myself as detached yet but Iīm working on it every day. Seeing her on Wednesday might not help that but I think I have to put DB aside for the moment.
B,
You I have no problem with it but agree that it might mess with your detachment.
Hi BenB,
I have followed your sitch and its quite similar to mine (BD in March 19, W in her thirties, no kids).
I am still not fully detached although I GAL like crazy, and I still think about XW a lot. Out of curiosity, what about you ? Do you date other women and if yes has it helped you detach ? Thanks
Nice to see you back Ben, really hope it is not cancer!
I really understand you going with her.
With regards to detachment I would try to prepare mentally for different settings.
Ben, personally I've always felt that when it comes to situations like this you should be there for them if they want that. I don't think it's "bad DB'ing" to ask her, and to go with her if she requests it. My opinion is that this is what is meant by keeping the way home paved and smooth.
My XW went through a breast cancer scare not too long after BD. I did the same as you, offered to go to appointments with her and do anything she needed around the house while going through treatment. She did in fact have cancer. She did not want anything from me, so I honored her wishes and stayed away. I think now that some time has passed that she would be more inclined to accept the help, but back then she didn't even want to be in the same room as me. So be there for her if she wants you to be, give her space if she doesn't want you helping.
Thanks LH, M, AS,
I really didnīt expect this and it scares me to think this could be something serious. The thought of her not being around anymore makes me nauseous but I canīt worry too much about it since I wonīt know for a while.
I donīt know how it works but I assume she just takes some test on Wednesday and we know a week later.
Yesterday W messaged me and asked again if she could buy some CBD oil from me. I was on my way to pick up my dog and said I could drop it off afterwards. I ended up going up to her apartment and let her play with the pug for a while.
Yeah, it was not great for detachment to see her. I still love her and seeing her in that small apartment felt so wrong. Like what is she doing there, we should be at our place. But Iīm not bothered by it, I see that as an opportunity to grow. Me being able to calm my anxiety and my heart, I always feel stronger after I do that.
I left after a few minutes, we hugged and said weīll see each other on Wednesday.
Hi Jason,
I will NEVER again date to help my detachment! Now is about becoming the best version of yourself. If you run away from your feelings, you would be missing out on a golden opportunity to grow.
I didnīt understand this when I was younger and the aha moment wasnīt until I found this forum and started reading the threads and books that were recommended. Yes, you will detach quicker if you meet other women but you are skipping important steps you need to take by doing so.
I am going out on dates but that was mostly just initially after W moved out(I hadnīt had sex in many months!). Now I havenīt been intimate with anyone in a few months and Iīm not searching(swiping) much. I can literally feel myself becoming stronger and more confident every day.
I can literally feel myself becoming stronger and more confident every day.
This is amazing!
Not sure I would have gone by her place but in general sounds like you're handling this great!
Hi everyone,
I should probably post an update as it has been a while. My business, which is live entertainment, has been massively affected by the corona virus so times are tough but I'll be fine. There are so many people who don't even know how to pay rent so I am thankful I can survive without income for a while
W has been coming over to my place a few times to hang out and play with the pug these past few weeks. Iīve allowed it since we were waiting to hear back if the lump she found is cancer or not.
The first time I saw her I felt all those feelings return as I mentioned previously but they settled down shortly after. I can see she hasn't done any work on herself mentally, not that I have asked, but I still see signs of someone who wants to escape reality. It is not an attractive quality. While I've done so much work internally and focused on my growth, she seems to be the same person albeit kinder to me than when this madness started.
About two weeks ago when she was at my place she noticed I had a second phone next to me and asked me about it -
W: How come you have two phones?
I wasn't prepared for that question and all I could do was tell the truth
Me: Well, there's a dating app, sort of secret although many know about it. It is used by celebrities and people in the entertainment industry. You have to be invited and after that there is a selection process where you will be notified if you qualify. But the app is only available on IOS so I had to buy an iphone.
W: Oh, I've heard about that....so did you get in?
Me: Yeah.
There was some awkwardness but I quickly moved on to the next subject so no silence or anything.
Last week she messaged and asked if we should meet for lunch and we did. There she told me that she got the test results from the biopsy. The tumour was benign, they wouldn't remove it but they'll need to keep an eye on it. So basically all is good but it also means I have no reason to keep seeing her really. Two days ago she wrote and asked if I wanted to join for lunch but I politely declined(I was busy). Yesterday she wrote and asked if I was home. I didn't see the message so I replied about an hour later that I was now on my way home.
We didn't write more after that. But here comes the tricky part. April 13 means the 6 month waiting period is over and I can now proceed with the divorce if I want to. So far, I haven't sent the request. None of us have spoken about it. If by mid October the court doesn't hear from either of us, we will remain married and have to file for divorce and start the process all over again should we want that.
Anyway, I need to think long and hard about what I want but most likely I will send the letter soon and finalize the divorce.
Benny B,
I think its absolutely time for NC and you might have to make it clear youre not interested in a friendship.
I think there is hope for you but its gonna take some time. As for your timeline I would wait awhile and see what happens if your interested in reconn.
Off topic here..... I have a question about this dating app.
So this super exclusive celebrity app that needs another phone invited still married people in?
Thank you LH,
I think she knows I'm not interested in friendship and knowing how she is, I think she just doesn't want to do any of the hard work...yet. She's just not there yet. Hasn't hit rock bottom etc etc.
Ginger, the app certainly doesn't require another phone. But it's only available on IOS which means you need an iphone. Iīve always preferred Android and didnīt feel like switching so I got an iphone that I use just for the app. It's not exclusively a dating app but also for networking. You can set your status to "only interested in friends and networking. But I haven't done that, I joined that community with the purpose of meeting an dating women.
That said, no dating app as far as I am aware of asks you if you are married, separated etc etc. I would not have been married if she had agreed to the divorce I filed back in September last year so I see no problem dating just because of a piece of paper says we are married.
Hey B,
Glad you are still doing well! Sorry about your job being affected, I hope things get back to normal quickly once they start easing restrictions.
W has been coming over to my place a few times to hang out and play with the pug these past few weeks. Iīve allowed it since we were waiting to hear back if the lump she found is cancer or not.
Sounds like you're just being there for her, which of course is fine.
I can see she hasn't done any work on herself mentally, not that I have asked, but I still see signs of someone who wants to escape reality. It is not an attractive quality. While I've done so much work internally and focused on my growth, she seems to be the same person albeit kinder to me than when this madness started.
It's really hard to tell what's going on internally though. And I know we talk about how sometimes they have an epiphany and beg to get back together, but that's not always the case. I think I've mentioned my friend before whose wife left him and moved in with OM. They sold their business and house and split the proceeds and went their separate ways although they never did officially get divorced. They didn't speak one word for almost 2 years. Their recon was long and slow and happened in baby steps. At first they just met over coffee, then eventually started going to movies and dinner together and it progressed from there. It was really like they started the dating process all over again. They are living together and happier than ever now.
I wasn't prepared for that question and all I could do was tell the truth
I don't see why you can't be honest about that.
Last week she messaged and asked if we should meet for lunch and we did. There she told me that she got the test results from the biopsy. The tumour was benign, they wouldn't remove it but they'll need to keep an eye on it.
That's great news! Especially right now when it's so hard to schedule surgery.
Two days ago she wrote and asked if I wanted to join for lunch but I politely declined(I was busy). Yesterday she wrote and asked if I was home. I didn't see the message so I replied about an hour later that I was now on my way home.
Interesting. Sounds like she's missing you.
Anyway, I need to think long and hard about what I want but most likely I will send the letter soon and finalize the divorce.
Have you thought about talking to her about it? Even if you're ready to proceed I think it would still be the polite thing to do.
AS, thank you and interesting question the last one.
I don't know how I would bring it up without looking like I'm insecure and having doubts about it. I'm curious if she has thought about it though.
More has happened since my last post. Saturday evening I was going out to dinner with a friend when during dinner W messaged me again -
Do you want to go and get a burger tomorrow?(our favorite burger food truck which is usually closed on Sundayīs decided to stay open that Sunday)Theyīre serving the triple cheese burger!
I didn't reply until the next day. didn't have any plans that Sunday but it just feels weird to keep meeting her like this. So I replied this below and I know I say too much as usual but I couldn't help it. Or more like didn't want to.
Me: I'm not interested in friendship with you. I wanted to be supportive since we were worried before the biopsy but we can't keep seeing each other like this forever. Don't you agree?
The moment I sent that I regretted asking that last question.
W: I mean, I understand where you are coming from, it's just you are the person I've known for the longest here and I like hanging out with you. For me, I want to be friends. Not like hang out all the time maybe. I appreciate the support for the maybe cancer thing, it helped a lot
So no burger then?
Me: All that means is that we would hang out until one of us meets someone new. Look, I wasn't planning on seeing you again after everything that's happened but the moment you told me about that lump none of that mattered of course. I'm no monster and of course I'll help you in a crisis like this. But no, we can't be friends.
W: Yeah I understand and I see that you are in a better place. Now I feel more like myself too. For months I was in a weird state of panic or sadness or just feeling like I didn't care about anything. I know you are no monster at all. And you will always be one of the closest persons to me because we've known each other for so long. And like I said, thank you for being there in a time like that.
That was yesterday and I haven't responded to that. Is it a bit weird that she keeps mentioning that we have known each other for a long time? Feels like she's talking about an old buddy of hers.
B,
The friend is annoying. Shes not ready yet. I bet once you get serious with someone else she will want you back. Next time she asks you make it clear youre not interested in a friendship.
Hi Ben, glad to see you back on the forum!
Really sorry to hear about ur business!
Given the circumstances with the cancer I think you handled it really well.
In regards to the filing I would probably at least notify W.
Since none of you have someone new its definitely not something you need to rush.
How do you feel? Dating-app and all.
(The App sounds awesome btw. I just got badoo and I am just mostly bored)
Still working out like crazy?
Thanks LH,
I don't think she will ask again after I said we can't be friends. But she might think of excuses to contact me for things that we've agreed are "important". Time will tell.
Thank you M,
Sorry but I need to hear from the vets here.
I think you mean well when giving advice and appreciate that. But the vets have been here long and have studied hundreds or more situations. I hope that makes sense and again, sorry if I seem ungrateful, that is not my intention at all.
But to comment on what you wrote, I don't see how I could notify her. Any wording I can think of would give her the impression that I want her to stop me from proceeding.
Do you mean how I feel about the dating app? I've used dating apps for a while now but been less of that lately.
Yes, working out almost as much. Fortunately gyms are open here but I do at home workouts for cardio whenever I'm not lifting weights. So some type of workout 6 days a week. Makes me feel good and allows me to have cheat meals every once in a while. Hope you are doing well!
Totally get that Ben, no worries!
Personally I like to get as much input as possible but whey most vets more heavily.
My question was more about how you feel about D.
Your post from the other day you sounded a bit like you aren't 100% sure.
Do you have any reasons not to finalize?
Great to hear about the gym! I Went today as well.
Thanks M,
About the D, I just ordered the final paper work needed but knowing myself, I will hold on to the letter and not send it immediately. It just feels so final. I need to think about this for a few days or so. I don't want to be married to a person who sees me as a friend. But like AS said, it's really hard to tell what goes on internally with her. I know she misses me but the question is, does she miss me because she is spoiled and misses her days of being secure and comfortable. Or does she just miss being with me.
Perhaps, or most likely it's both but I don't know if that changes anything for me.
B, regarding the final D papers I wasn't saying that you should temp check her (I- "is this really what you want?") I just meant that I thought it would be polite to talk to her and let her know you were sending it through, or "notify" her as Mumin put it. Just as a courtesy.
Your latest posts make it sound like she is still just trying to keep you in the friendzone. She may not have the long line of suitors at her door that she expected, so keeping you hanging on as Plan B probably makes her feel more comfortable. But let me ask you, do you want to keep the door open to recon? If you do, then maybe you should go have that burger now and then to remind her what she's missing. Don't be available to her ALL the time, but every now and then you might go do something with her. The key is letting her pursue while you stay a bit distant, which right now is exactly what's happening.
Thanks AS,
Iīll let her know before sending it, that makes sense.
Yes, I absolutely would like to keep the door open for recon if she can realize what sheīs done and is truly remorseful about it. But too late to go to that burger place now and I donīt think she will ask again but weīll see.
She was supposed to come over and get one of her boxes but wrote to me today that she thinks she has a fever. Hoping it's not that virus but I told her she absolutely needs to stay home then. An hour later she messaged again -
W: Didn't you have a 50-60īs music playlist? Can you share that with me somehow?
A bit of background on this. W and I used to love to listen to music from 50-60īs together. I made a playlist that was in the background during the dinner at our wedding. After the BD, I get nauseous if I hear any of those songs. Even today, as far as Iīve come, I canīt listen to to that. So I answered -
Me: Yeah, our wedding playlist.
Then I sent the spotify link, playlist is called "wedding mingle"
W: awww... thank you, I could only find a few
Yes, I absolutely would like to keep the door open for recon if she can realize what sheīs done and is truly remorseful about it. But too late to go to that burger place now and I donīt think she will ask again but weīll see.
Well I think it was good to bail on that because you don't want to go every time she invites you somewhere. I suspect she will keep pursuing you though. When she invites you to do stuff then go now and then, and don't go now and then. This way you keep the door open without being an obvious Plan B. It'll keep her wondering what you are up to.
She was supposed to come over and get one of her boxes but wrote to me today that she thinks she has a fever. Hoping it's not that virus but I told her she absolutely needs to stay home then.
Yeah you definitely want to err on the side of caution right now!
An hour later she messaged again
She's pursuing. That's fine, let her! Don't always be immediately available. I think you know the routine by now
Thank you AS,
Youīre right. I think I've made it clear we won't be buddies so hoping she understands that. And could be like LH said that she might want me back once I'm serious about someone else.
But on that note, something I've noticed lately is that I am less and less interested in dating. I hardly spend any time on the dating apps anymore. It's like I don't have any desire for intimacy for anyone right now. I enjoy working out, still crave good food and mostly focused on taking care of my dog. Recently started to try new recipes again, which btw is a great GAL activity for those of you in lockdown right now. I used to love trying new recipes but stopped doing that since at least half the joy is seeing others enjoying those dinners. But back at it again now and can highly recommend it.
AS,
What do you think when she said "Now I feel more like myself too. For months I was in a weird state of panic or sadness or just feeling like I didn't care about anything."? Is this her trying to convey that she is in a new place now and almost admitting knowing she was obviously having some deep issues at work that caused this all to begin with?
Hi Ben, been following you for a minute, just wanted to check in an see how your sitch was doing. Im just a sucker for a happy ending I guess lol. Glad to see you staying strong. Much love from L.A.
What do you think when she said "Now I feel more like myself too. For months I was in a weird state of panic or sadness or just feeling like I didn't care about anything."? Is this her trying to convey that she is in a new place now and almost admitting knowing she was obviously having some deep issues at work that caused this all to begin with?
It's hard to know exactly what they are thinking, because a lot of them are in a lot of confusion and turmoil even though they may not show it on the outside. When people told me that back when I was going through this mess I kept thinking "no they don't know her like I do and I see her every day, she is the Rock of Gibraltar on this!" Maybe a year after BD she told me the whole experience just tore her up inside and she cried every day about it. I was astonished, she seemed so firm and sure I just couldn't believe she really was in turmoil just like I had been told here. This is hard for most people here to accept, but while they may have known their FORMER spouse better than us, once they BD they turn into someone else, a WAS, and WE know WAS's better than their own spouses do.
Anyway back to your point, yeah I think there's an element of "I was sick, but I'm well now" to her comment. Right now she's still sending off friendzone vibes, so her intent may have been along the lines of "since I'm better we should hang out and do stuff." Waywards have to hit bottom before they might have an awakening, and I don't think she has yet. A lot of them will declare themselves "fixed" when they are still on the fall to the bottom.
Thanks USC,
Journal -
Just as you all thought, W has been contacting me very often lately. As I suspected, the reasons for asking to come over often have to do with many of her things that are packed up in boxes and stored here. She needs to bring a box with her every now and then or something like that. But when she's here she knows I don't expect her to just grab it and leave immediately so she sits down for a while, maybe tells me about her day or asks me about mine.
But besides that, she frequently sends me messages about anything and everything. LH, I was wrong. I thought I was clear we wouldn't be friends but she not only continues to reach out, she's stepped it up a notch.
Yesterday she needed to come over and pick up some of her summer clothes since she was getting the keys to the new apartment today. This time I could sense a different vibe from her. Not flirty per say, but like when you can tell someone is attracted to you but too shy to do or say anything. I went it to the kitchen at one point and she came with me. The door to the balcony had been left open so it was a bit chilly. W used to freeze a lot, always felt cold, while I am always warm. Whenever she felt cold she would love to snuggle up on me and have me hold her until she's warmed up. So as she walks in she reacts to how chilly it is and for a second leans in to me, as she would back then, but is reminded that we don't have that relationship right now and stops. I noticed it immediately but got what I needed from the kitchen and we left.
This morning she messages me again around noon and asks if I want to join her for lunch at a nearby place. Now, I really mean it when I say I didn't want to be too available for her but I had just been at the gym and that place is where I was on my way to. So we met and had lunch. Afterwards I needed to grab some things from the supermarket and lo and behold, so did she and decided to join me. I got the feeling she wanted me to invite her up or join her to her place but I just gave her a hug goodbye and here I am writing an update.
Oh, and today would have been our 10 year anniversary as a couple.
Ben, you are DBing. Itīs not a surprise, right?
She is coming out of her cave...
B, you're distancing and she's pursuing. This is kind of going beyond a temp check I think, she's putting out recon feelers. Like I said before, assuming you want a future recon(and I think you said you would) then start cracking the door open. Don't throw it open and roll the red carpet out or she'll go running again. But crack it. Be a little more available. Have a casual meal now and then. Be a little more responsive to calls and texts. But don't go overboard, sometimes be too busy for lunch, slow to reply to a text, etc. Be cautious! Good luck brother, I'm happy for you that you're getting some positive signs from her!
Also I think you're striking a great balance on your IG posts, all the posts about your restaurant adventures and walking the dog and such are perfect. I guarantee you she is checking your social media and the message you're sending is "I'm enjoying life and living it to the fullest".
Thank you Neffer and AS,
We have a long way to go before I would consider being in a relationship with her again. Even if she clearly said that is what she wants, I can easily see how another BD would hit me sometime in the future. I wish I could be happy about her reaching out and wanting to be around me all the time, but I just can't take her back when she hasn't done any of the work needed for herself.
Yesterday her two friends were helping her move some things to the new apartment so W messaged and said they are coming over to take whatever boxes fit in the car. I hadn't met her friends since the wedding but was polite and small talked a bit before I helped them to get the boxes to the trunk.
This morning W messaged again and asked if she can come over to pick up tools she couldn't carry the day before. As usual she sat down and hung out a bit before doing what she was supposed to. One of the first things she mentioned was that her friends had told her later that they were shocked to see how "fresh" I looked. "They haven't seen me since the wedding so I'm not surprised" I said(I weighed about 30kg/66lbs more than I do now on my wedding day).
AS, I have blocked W from Instagram but not her family. I would be surprised if she had another account to stalk me. But that reminds me of something she mentioned about two weeks ago I forgot to write here. She said her sister had mentioned to her a while back she saw one of my Instastories. The video she saw was three pugs running in to my apartment. I just answered "Oh, I had a friend with two pugs who came over so they all could play" and that's all we said about it. But I thought about it later and wondered why they were talking about that.
Ben!...
underestimate the power of the force you should not do...;-)
We have a long way to go before I would consider being in a relationship with her again. Even if she clearly said that is what she wants, I can easily see how another BD would hit me sometime in the future. I wish I could be happy about her reaching out and wanting to be around me all the time, but I just can't take her back when she hasn't done any of the work needed for herself.
You are definitely wise to be cautious.
One of the first things she mentioned was that her friends had told her later that they were shocked to see how "fresh" I looked.
Yup. Well you are "fresh"
You're in the best shape of your life, you're living your life on your terms, you're enjoying your food excursions, you're overall sending a message that you are confident and secure in who you are. It's going to be very hard for her not to be attracted to that.
AS, I have blocked W from Instagram but not her family. I would be surprised if she had another account to stalk me.
I would lay money that she is snooping. It would be a very safe bet I think
When she was wayward she probably didn't bother, but now she's getting curious. Making excuses to contact you, asking questions, hanging around you when she doesn't need to, asking you out. Yeah I am quite confident she sees everything you're posting on social media whether she's blocked or not.
She said her sister had mentioned to her a while back she saw one of my Instastories. The video she saw was three pugs running in to my apartment
Hahaha! Yeah, "her sister" saw it
Sorry, I've been a bit slow posting here. Thank you Neffer and AS!
Since I last posted things have mostly been the same. W contacts me almost every day for various reasons. I never initiate contact. I am unsure how I want to proceed so I'm being very cautious. I am not ready to take her back right now, that I know. I don't know if that is what she wants either.
If I was to guess, W is unsure how she feels and is worried that if she tells me she wants to R, she might regret it and therefore upset me to the point where I go NC again. I don't know what the next step is but I will keep my distance and keep focusing on me.
I'm working out every day, on my rest days I still walk on the treadmill for an hour or do P90x at home. W on the other hand has not lived a healthy lifestyle since she moved out. Eating unhealthy, lots of sugar etc. But she still looks great as usual.
Anyway, just wanted to give you an update on what's happening.
Benny B,
Im also using the P90X dvds to get through this difficult time.
You are kinda in a tough spot so a lot probably depends on your detachment.
If youre super detached then you can play the long game with her.
If youre not I would invite over and tell her to pick up a bottle wine. Late nature take its course. If she shoots you down then make it clear you are not interested in a friendship.
Hey B! I think you're right, she's confused and doesn't know what she wants. Life without you probably isn't the fantastic experience she thought it would be, but she's not fully ready to recommit either. Just keep doing your thing and being the lighthouse!
Glad to see you back Ben!
Awesome getting so much workouts in! What's your murph time?
How is your business doing?
With regards to W I think you get some good input already.
Since you are unsure yourself, Def give it some time. Keep doing your thing as AS said.
LH, man that feeling when you're done with P90X plyometrics. Sweating all over and exhausted, love it! You just feel great the entire day afterwards.
I would assume I'm quite detached. So far I've been through her cheating, seeing her with another man walking down the street and having no contact for many months. And I'm doing quite well. I think she has a long way to go still and for that reason, I would prefer to play the long game as you say. Everything that has happened lately I think means she misses me but it could also be strongly influenced by her wanting to have me around as plan B still. In general, she has always been scared to take the first step. But when and if the time is right, I might suggest something like that.
AS, I agree, I will see how the next few months play out. I'm in no hurry to make any decisions either.
M, thanks, I don't do crossfit so I wouldn't know. My focus is on building muscle mass right now without adding unnecessary body fat. Business is paused until next year to begin with so we'll see but financially, I'm ok.
Almost a month since I last posted so I should probably post an update so that the few who remember me can follow the progress
The past few weeks have been similar in many ways. I've been seeing W several times per week, each time initiated by her. She is always the first to message me as well. It's difficult for me to guess what it is she wants. It could either be that she wants to R but doesn't know where I stand and is afraid I would reject her or she is still unsure. A few things I have noticed that are complete 180s from how she were last year -
Weather has been nice lately and she mentioned how it's supposed to be warm all week next week. She said that's nice but in a way she doesn't like it since she feels she has to do something like go out or meet friends when all she wants to do is be home. This is coming from a person who turned in to a teenager when this started and had to be out every day. She couldn't stand being at home back then.
Since W and I started hanging out, I have at no point tried to talk about us a a couple or showed any romantic interest. When she's been here, she's also seen my other phone which I've used for that dating app I mentioned a few posts ago, laying around. Although I haven't logged in in a while, it's still here. I'm sure she must be wondering if I'm going on dates.
I'm wondering if I should bring "us" up. What we are doing now can't go on forever and I'm sure she knows that. But something like asking her where she sees this going. And depending on what she answers, either suggest to go on a date or explain that I'm not interested in friendship and ending this.
Thoughts?
No R talks. Just keep DBing. How is your GAL? How are you doing on your 180s? If I asked you to grade yourself on detachment, what grade would you give yourself.
Your options are either to keep waiting, and keep doing what you are doing. Or call your lawyer and see how you can move your D ahead.
If you bring up "us" she will retreat almost guaranteed.
When she wants to get back together, you will know. When she doesn't you will be confused.
Benny B,
I am going to disagree with Steve and say be direct and tell her what you want. But you have to be congruent with your words. If she's not interested in a romantic relationship then tell her great and for her to call you if she changes her mind. Then you walk and you never look back.
Hi Steve,
My GAL couldn't be better, or as good as it can with the restrictions in place. So basically all I can do except for traveling which used to be a big part of my life. My 180s, I haven't thought about in a long time but I feel I got there a long time ago. I quickly made changes that stuck with me now more than a year later.
Lawyers aren't needed here as we had a solid prenup and all I have to do is put the envelope in a mailbox and the D is final. I have until mid October to do that before the divorce is off and we would have to file again.
I get the whole when she wants to get back together vs when she doesn't and I'll be confused but the thing is I'm not confused. I'm in between two likely scenarios If I was to bet money on this, the signs I see from her all point to her wanting to get back together. But I highly doubt that she would ever reach out and beg to come back, even if that is what she really felt. She is and always have been scared of putting her self out there. When we first met, I was the one who had to take that step for example, otherwise we would not have been a couple.
I'm not saying that means I should chase her now, but I don't agree she would retreat if I was to bring "us" up. She already knows it's a conversation waiting to happen, it's in the air when we meet.
Benny
Read my post you were responding when I posted.
Thanks LH,
If I was to write to a newcomer, I would give the same advice as Steve. But things are different now. She reaches out on a daily basis. On weekends I never meet her since I meet my friends or my brother but she always finds a reason to message me. I know she meets her friends on weekends as well so clearly she is thinking about me quite often.
But the good thing about how I have been during this process is that she knows when I say something, I mean it. If I was to tell her I can't keep hanging out as friends and this has to end, she would know that is the last she'll see of me in a long time or maybe forever.
Although that would be a sad outcome, I'd rather end it and move on than to endure more emotional pain of having her in my life when it's going nowhere.
I'll think of something but I think I'll skip the part of her calling me if she changes her mind
But I would walk and I would never look back. That is for sure.
I'll think of something but I think I'll skip the part of her calling me if she changes her mind
But I would walk and I would never look back. That is for sure.
Just out of curiosity what do you not like about that statement?
Hi Steve,
My GAL couldn't be better, or as good as it can with the restrictions in place. So basically all I can do except for traveling which used to be a big part of my life. My 180s, I haven't thought about in a long time but I feel I got there a long time ago. I quickly made changes that stuck with me now more than a year later.
I am going to challenge this. We can all improve. Constant self-improvement is the one thing I learned in my sitch. To never stop growing, learning, working, becoming better.
Lawyers aren't needed here as we had a solid prenup and all I have to do is put the envelope in a mailbox and the D is final. I have until mid October to do that before the divorce is off and we would have to file again.
Then set a date. "Unless she is committed to working on us by Sept. 15th (or whatever you choose) I will drop this in the mail that day."
You are floundering because you have no end goal here. Thus you start to deviate from DBing and get the urge to discuss "us". That is a violation of DB rules.
I get the whole when she wants to get back together vs when she doesn't and I'll be confused but the thing is I'm not confused. I'm in between two likely scenarios If I was to bet money on this, the signs I see from her all point to her wanting to get back together. But I highly doubt that she would ever reach out and beg to come back, even if that is what she really felt. She is and always have been scared of putting her self out there. When we first met, I was the one who had to take that step for example, otherwise we would not have been a couple.
Yep, and where did that end you up? Right into D court. Do not repeat the mistakes of the past. I learned another thing in my last few years of life. When I was younger I had women that were unabashed in their interest and desire in me. For some reason I always was pushed away by that. I had to have someone I WAS CRAZY for. That was my goal. Wasted the better part of 2 decades on one woman that strung me along. And then met my W. Similar beginning for me and my W. I was crazy about her, she strung me along for 3-4 months and then finally relented and an R began. Yet I've had 2 sitches in our 21+ years. I look back and realize that the important thing was finding someone that was CRAZY about me. That was willing to move mountains to be with me! I looked for the wrong things an suffered.
Make her work to get you back. If she doesn't, shake the dust of your feet and move on to greener pasture.
I'm not saying that means I should chase her now, but I don't agree she would retreat if I was to bring "us" up. She already knows it's a conversation waiting to happen, it's in the air when we meet.
Mind reading. You do not know this. What is in the air is the desire for you to end this limbo you are feeling and break a very basic DB rule. Many have traveled that road before.....and have lived to regret. A couple that have posted on this forum again after a longtime in the last few weeks.
Whatever, you decide, good luck! I am pulling for you.
Thanks LH,
If I was to write to a newcomer, I would give the same advice as Steve. But things are different now. She reaches out on a daily basis. On weekends I never meet her since I meet my friends or my brother but she always finds a reason to message me. I know she meets her friends on weekends as well so clearly she is thinking about me quite often.
Sounds like the friend zone. Sorry, but I do not see a discussion about "us" going well. Are there any other benefits she is getting from you by not being D'd? You mention a prenup, does she still have access to funds in the meantime? We've seen WAS delay the LBS from finalizing things due to benefits they are still getting as their legal S. Ask yourself honestly, are you providing things for her that end if the D is finalized?
Doesn't it imply that I'll be around if she changes her mind? If she were to say that she doesn't want a romantic relationship with me, that would be a defining moment for me. For a long time, I felt I had moved on and got to a point where the thought of her being in a new relationship didn't bother me. Then she found that lump in her chest and the thought of losing her to cancer scared me. Being with her through that process brought us closer again and although I haven't let my guard down, I can now see us at least trying to build a new relationship.
But if she was to say she doesn't see that happening, then her messaging me all the time and wanting to hang out, means she has friend zoned me big time and I completely misread all signals. I don't take her out to dinners these days, nor do we do any of the things we used to do as a couple, but she still wants to be around me all the time. I see that as a positive sign. But if she hasn't felt that at all, I am wasting my time here.
I mean, she could call me if she changes her mind but I don't want her to think she can. Should she?
Hi Steve,
She does not have access to any funds. There is absolutely no benefit she gets from being with me in any way except for maybe having my company and hanging out with my dog.
I didn't mean I have gotten there as in I'm fully evolved. That never happens of course. But the 180's of who I am now from who I was back when this started have stuck with me.
There is no urge to discuss us either. I get that it may sound like that. There is no urge for nothing here. No urge for getting back together with her. No urge to have a talk. But I completely understand it may appear that way.
Earlier I have said to her I am not interested in friendship with her. So it just feels weird to keep hanging out as often as we are. The reason I even started answering her emails was when she told me she found a lump in her chest. Up until then, I ignored anything that wasn't absolutely important. Then after finding out it wasn't cancer, we've sort of kept in touch.
If this is friend zone for her, I most certainly need to find out and end it quickly. But please don't misunderstand. The plan was never to discuss "us" and then I suggest well ok you should move back in. There would be a lot she has to prove before I would consider being in a relationship with her again.
Doesn't it imply that I'll be around if she changes her mind? I mean, she could call me if she changes her mind but I don't want her to think she can. Should she?
Benny B its all mindset baby.
This is what I Benny B (the prize) wants (romantic relationship). If that's not what you want right now that's ok. I am going to go out and find someone who does while leading an awesome life. If you change your mind call me. Maybe I am still available maybe I'm not that's the risk you take. (you don't say the second sentence).It's all about the attitude baby. Would James Dean or James Bond let a girl stick him in the friend zone? H3ll no!
[/quote]
Mind reading. You do not know this. What is in the air is the desire for you to end this limbo you are feeling and break a very basic DB rule. Many have traveled that road before.....and have lived to regret. A couple that have posted on this forum again after a longtime in the last few weeks.
Whatever, you decide, good luck! I am pulling for you.[quote]
I'm really not in a limbo. I know how it feels to be in limbo. All of 2019 was limbo. I have moved on, I've dated women and made new friends. She can see me living my life without her and being ok with that. Her reaching out so often, that gives me zero expectations.
I can tell she understands and believes what I say when I say I will do something. So if I am to avoid having any conversation with her about this, there is only one option - tell her not to contact me anymore. Otherwise, she will reach out and want to meet me.
Thank you Steve! I appreciate that!
Doesn't it imply that I'll be around if she changes her mind? I mean, she could call me if she changes her mind but I don't want her to think she can. Should she?
Benny B its all mindset baby.
This is what I Benny B (the prize) wants (romantic relationship). If that's not what you want right now that's ok. I am going to go out and find someone who does while leading an awesome life. If you change your mind call me. Maybe I am still available maybe I'm not that's the risk you take. (you don't say the second sentence).It's all about the attitude baby. Would James Dean or James Bond let a girl stick him in the friend zone? H3ll no!
That's true, I need to think about this for a few days.
There is no urge to discuss us either. I get that it may sound like that. There is no urge for nothing here. No urge for getting back together with her. No urge to have a talk. But I completely understand it may appear that way.
Sorry. Ain't buying it. If this were true that envelop would have been dropped in the mail a long time ago.
Up to you my friend. I discussed with others here who suggested sending that letter could wait. Me not wanting to finalize the D does not mean I have an urge to get back together with her. Especially not after all that's happened. I am in no rush for a quick fix that would lead me to BD2.
I remember what that urge felt like last year. That's why I'm so sure. That urge is no longer there. But that doesn't mean I want the doors closed for good. Not right now at least, but it could be how I feel in not that long.
That's true, I need to think about this for a few days.
Fortune favors the bold my friend.
Up to you my friend. I discussed with others here who suggested sending that letter could wait. Me not wanting to finalize the D does not mean I have an urge to get back together with her. Especially not after all that's happened. I am in no rush for a quick fix that would lead me to BD2.
I remember what that urge felt like last year. That's why I'm so sure. That urge is no longer there. But that doesn't mean I want the doors closed for good. Not right now at least, but it could be how I feel in not that long.
So how does finalizing the D close the door for good? I see a lot of LBSs struggling with that these days. AnotherStander and other great DBers have said repeatedly that D is a step in the process. If dropping that envelope in the mail today stops R from happening down the line, then it was not a very strong R to begin with.
I am seeing a lot of contradictions in you Ben. I think you saw this reaching out about the lump as a chance to get back together. Then remaining in contact past that as another opportunity to get back together. I mean, deep down isn't that what you are struggling with? You claim you don't want to get back together, but isn't that why you asked about discussing "us"?
If you don't want to get back together. And if you don't want to be in the friend zone. And if you don't want to finalize D. Then I am confused about what you want.
Sorry Steve but that is absolutely incorrect. To begin with, you are right, finalizing the D doesn't stop us from getting back together in the future. But you are 100% wrong in that I saw her reaching out due the lump as a chance of getting back together. I did no such thing. I ignored all her attempts of reaching out until she mentioned that. I am not going to continue DBing when she has a history of breast cancer in her family. If she did indeed have cancer and didn't survive, how foolish of me to stick with DB principles. I put that aside and and went with her to the hospital since she doesn't have any family in this country.
And I think you are misunderstanding. You say I have "urges" to do things. I have an urge to discuss us or I have an urge to get back together. That is what I am disputing here. I never said I didn't want to get back together. I said I don't have an urge for any of what you are saying. I am happy with any outcome. That doesn't mean I don't want to explore the option of getting back together, IF that is even an option. But if you think I am holding on to some hope caused by the lump in her chest and her reaching out due to that, that is simply not true. She found that lump months ago and it took months before I even answered any messages regarding anything besides the hospital visits. I have had my guard up ever since.
But to get back to filing for D, like I said, I discussed with others here who suggested that could wait, now that she and I seem to be connecting again. Of course, I could file for D right now. But you are the only one so far who has suggested that. And I haven't even disagreed with you. I just don't know why that would be important since others seem to think it can wait?
I think it perhaps sounds weak, like I would say "W, we need to talk. What do you see for us in the future". Is that perhaps what you imagine my conversation would be? If so, I understand why you think that would be a bad idea. My conversation would be more like me being clear about what I want moving forward and see how she responds to that. If what I say doesn't seem resonate with her, I excuse myself and move on with my life. Then I can send that letter.
At least that's the plan for now although I am open for ideas and discussions?
Hi Ben. Iīm following Steve and LH here.
Keep GAL, keep moving forward. No R talks. NO expectations...(rolling eyes emoji here)
Trust the process. It needs time and patience. Donīt pull the dragon leash...
Sorry Ben, you wont like this.. But
Sorry Steve but that is absolutely incorrect. To begin with, you are right, finalizing the D doesn't stop us from getting back together in the future. But you are 100% wrong in that I saw her reaching out due the lump as a chance of getting back together. I did no such thing. I ignored all her attempts of reaching out until she mentioned that. I am not going to continue DBing when she has a history of breast cancer in her family. If she did indeed have cancer and didn't survive, how foolish of me to stick with DB principles. I put that aside and and went with her to the hospital since she doesn't have any family in this country.
Its a nice gesture, but you overlook that she fired you as her husband.. She left you in a mess and didnt give you the same consideration. Another way to look at this.. If you got fired from your job and the &^&* all over you, then called you back 12 months later asking for assistance becuase they couldnt solve an issue, would assist ? I know i wouldnt.
And I think you are misunderstanding. You say I have "urges" to do things. I have an urge to discuss us or I have an urge to get back together. That is what I am disputing here. I never said I didn't want to get back together. I said I don't have an urge for any of what you are saying. I am happy with any outcome. That doesn't mean I don't want to explore the option of getting back together, IF that is even an option. But if you think I am holding on to some hope caused by the lump in her chest and her reaching out due to that, that is simply not true. She found that lump months ago and it took months before I even answered any messages regarding anything besides the hospital visits. I have had my guard up ever since.
Why keep up the contact then ? You went through months of posting about your GAL etc, then your posts are all about a cheating ex. - and from an outsider looking in, its excuse after excuse to justify your reasonings.
But you are the only one so far who has suggested that. And I haven't even disagreed with you. I just don't know why that would be important since others seem to think it can wait?
Plus 2 for the filing vote - Why wait - move on, enjoy life. You are luckier than 99% of the people here becuase there are no kids involved.
I think it perhaps sounds weak, like I would say "W, we need to talk. What do you see for us in the future". Is that perhaps what you imagine my conversation would be? If so, I understand why you think that would be a bad idea. My conversation would be more like me being clear about what I want moving forward and see how she responds to that. If what I say doesn't seem resonate with her, I excuse myself and move on with my life. Then I can send that letter.
At least that's the plan for now although I am open for ideas and discussions?
If you dont want her back, why have the conversation ? - why waste time ? just file and enjoy life.. You are so fortunate that you wont have the messy custody battle - Enjoy and move on.
MrB is my new hero lol. Straight to the point.
Hi Neffer,
This really isn't about being impatient. I don't plan on having an R talk. I should not have explained it that way as my first post today. I most certainly have no expectations, I haven't struggled with expectations in what must be over a year now. So I'm good there. I am just not sure I want to continue the way we have for the past few months.
If you have read my thread you know it started with her thinking she has cancer. But after that, we've kept in touch and what seemed like I was friend zoned has evolved into more. Steve questioned whether it could be because she is benefiting from something financially but there isn't. AS wrote that his friend started out slow like this and eventually they got back together.
So yes, I could let things be and "trust the process". But sooner or later I have to decide if I am sending that letter to finalize the D or not. I am in no rush here, not until after summer at least. Sure, I'll wait if that is the consensus here but is it? That's all I'm trying to figure out.
Mrb,
I don't understand what you mean I'm afraid. Why do both you and Steve keep insisting I say I don't want her back? When have I ever said that?
I respectfully disagree with what you say about the nice gesture. I don't care if she fired me as husband. We are talking about death here. Nothing anyone says will ever change how I feel about that.
Sorry, please forgive me for not understanding here but why would I file for D? Again, I have never said I don't want her back. But there is a huge difference between considering taking someone back if they do the necessary work and having urges to get back together with someone.
Benny,
Right at this moment if you knew she regretted her decision would you want to try again?
Iīm following your sitch Ben...
If you dont want her back, why have the conversation ? - why waste time ? just file and enjoy life.. You are so fortunate that you wont have the messy custody battle - Enjoy and move on.
headshot!
Hi LH,
It depends on how she explains that to me an what she says she wants. It's not like I would take her back immediately just because she says she regrets her decision. What is perhaps not clear here is that I have been skeptic about everything this whole time. Only recently I've started hanging out with her from time to time, after consulting with you guys here first.
I am puzzled as to why I would D and move on with my life. Yes of course my posts were for months about my GAL and now that W is back into my life again I will post about that. But look at how many posts those are. I have two threads in total on this forum. Dating from September 2019 until now.
It depends on how she explains that to me an what she says she wants. It's not like I would take her back immediately just because she says she regrets her decision. What is perhaps not clear here is that I have been skeptic about everything this whole time. Only recently I've started hanging out with her from time to time, after consulting with you guys here first.
Fair enough but I think you need to push to see where you stand. Again, the no relationship talk gets over blown IMO. At some point you have to find out where you stand. If you can get rejected and walk and never look back then no harm no foul.
I am puzzled as to why I would D and move on with my life. Yes of course my posts were for months about my GAL and now that W is back into my life again I will post about that. But look at how many posts those are. I have two threads in total on this forum. Dating from September 2019 until now.
I won't speak for Mr.B but what I am gathering is in 95% of the cases you are just prolonging the agony. A stay of execution until she walks again because most of the WWs never get to the root of the issue. We just had two people get bombed again after years of recon. Yes there are people like Neffer who learned hard lessons and was truly remorseful. I know you referred Mummin to the board and his W is as kooky as they come. He has zero chance of leading a normal life with her. I have always believed for a true recon you have to be apart for years and both mutually agree that life is better together then apart.
(Sorry Job, I still have not posted my thread but I would like to have the chance to offer my advice to Ben)
Ben, I understand why you have not filed for D yet, and I would have done the same if I were in your shoes. You still want to R (even though you do not feel the urge to do so), and you and W have reconnected these past few weeks, so filing for D now would be odd. Either you should have filed months ago, or you should wait a little to see how things go.
I have to agree with Steve on no R talks. Dont bring up R and let her do it. I think you should make her work harder before getting back with her. Otherwise it would be just too easy for her.
Now, here is the thing : you are now spending quite so time with her every week just like friends do, and W has not even expressed the desire to get back together. As far as Im concerned I think you are too available and should back off a little to make her try harder.
Ben you came here asking if you should have a conversation about "us". You then push back on that and branch into why you stopped DBing (the lump),push back on why you continued to not DB after the lump was benign, and then push back on the not pushing the D to finalized.
I never said to send the D now. What I said was that if you really had no urge to get back together than the finalizing of D envelope would already been sent. The things you are saying are not congruent with each other. I also gave you the advice to set a date for when you would send the envelope. GOALS ARE GOOD.
You are running on instinct here. She emails you about the tumor, you jump right back into playing the role that her H would have played. After it is benign you continued to engage with her despite not wanting to be friend zoned. And you continue to hem-haw on committing to finalizing the D as if you expect some miracle turnaround from her.
We've seen this movie before. WAW wants a D and leaves. LBH starts moving on, and doing what he has to in order to untangle their lives. WAW starts having second thoughts and comes sniffing around.
Do you know which of the LBHs were successful at reconnecting and having their WAW commit to the MR are? Do you think they are the ones that double-downed at that point on DBing principles, or do you think the ones that said "she is showing interest, I can stop DBing!" were successful?
I think you know the answer to this. Just 2 weeks ago we had a LBH whose WAW started to show signs of wanting to come back. He over pursued and chased right back off.
You can DB, or you can follow your instincts. Up to you. I just want you to understand the odds.
Hi Steve,
Thank you for the advice but I have to be able to tell you when I disagree with something. And I will push back until I am convinced otherwise. I hope that makes sense?
The only time I've basically said put DB aside is when we thought she had cancer. The way you read my posts simplifies what I say and I get that the information I give you is bits and pieces and not always the whole story. So completely understand how you would see it that way. I will re read my thread as well and see if I have missed clarifying certain things.
I do not agree the things I am saying aren't congruent but I know you and I have had our disagreements in the past on others things, similar to this. Us staying in touch after finding out the lump was benign was in no way "not DB:ing". For example, she would come over and pick up one of her boxes and move it to the other apartment, I could see how she uses those boxes as an excuse to contact me but there is nothing I could do about that. For weeks or even months, she would come over and pick up something small and stay and talk for a while. Even to this date, I am yet to contact her for any reason except for maybe a letter she has received in the mail. I have at no point suggested to meet up to do something. I have, however, accepted invitations to meet her at times and I have also declined multiple invitations to meet her.
What exactly do you feel would be the DB way of doing the above instead?
What I said was that if you really had no urge to get back together than the finalizing of D envelope would already been sent.
Ok, I understand but the word "urge" seems a bit strong to me but perhaps that is because English is a third language for me. No, now that I am seeing this side of her I am hesitating to send those in. Again, a bit too strong to say I expect some miracle turn around. If you have followed my thread and remember, it was after AS suggested that can wait that I decided to do that. That should hardly imply I expect a miracle turn around, don't you agree?
The only non DB thing that has been suggested her is to talk to her and I just wanted to listen to what everyone thinks about that. The way you write this
"she is showing interest, I can stop DBing!"
tells me that you think I've just forgot about the principles completely and let go. That is not the case. I haven't stopped DBing in every way. That simplifies what I say a lot. I am not planning on pursuing, I am not planning on courting her or showing any interest. A conversation would her could even be a statement from me, reminding her we can't keep hanging out like buddies.
I am and will be very skeptic. This is my life, and the pain I endured for that long, I don't take that lightly. I don't plan on foolishly running back to her arms because she shows some interest.
But I get why it would be perceived that way. And btw I appreciate the advice on setting a date for finalizing. That's not a bad idea.
Hey Ben, for the longest time after S I felt like my only way forward in life was to recon. It was either that or it was all over, I would just limp along for my remaining days until I died lonely, sorry and broken. That was when I was in the fog. When I came out of the fog I started remembering that my XW wasn't the only one that hadn't been happy for a long time. I wasn't either, but I think the difference is she blamed me (or really "us") and I blamed my own state-of-mind. I wasn't happy not because of her, but because I was focusing on all the negative things in my life and letting them bring me low. And now I don't. I still have PLENTY of things that go wrong, but I deal with them and instead of letting them wreck my day I remind myself of all the great stuff in my life too. And I think you've done that too, despite your W leaving and Covid messing with your job you are positive and upbeat, and that's really great to see!
But circling back around to the above, eventually when I "freed myself" I realized I didn't want to recon with my XW because everything was so great before, I wanted to because it would put things back to "normal". And also there was a bit of the need to "win". I mean S and especially D can feel like a loss, so recon would be a win because it would be "proof" that I am worth keeping after all. And when I isolated that particular thought, I realized my whole struggle wasn't S and D, it was with who I was as a person and where my happiness was coming from. Right?
My point is this- at the end of the day you have to really ask yourself why you would even want to continue to have her in your life. What is she bringing to the table? It sounds like very little. I don't think she wants to recon, I think she's bored and you are available so she ties you up to stave off boredom and to keep you from moving on. I wouldn't bother to ask her what she is looking for because almost assuredly she still doesn't know.
If you are OK with being in the friendzone with her then that's fine. But if you are still attached to her and hoping for recon, then your best chance at that would be to stop the friendzone stuff immediately. Don't have a talk with her, just go NC in your actions. It's the only way she will go on the journey of self-exploration that she needs to go on to grow and mature and become ready for a relationship again.
Thank you AS,
I appreciate your thoughts on this. But I have to clarify a few things -
I have no "hope" for anything. I am happy where I am today. I have no expectations.
I will listen to the advice and avoid a conversation for now but I have given a lot of thought to what you say here
at the end of the day you have to really ask yourself why you would even want to continue to have her in your life. What is she bringing to the table? It sounds like very little.
I didn't have any plans on us seeing each other again. No matter what anyone thinks, I wasn't waiting around,hoping she would reach out one day. Her aunt died of breast cancer as did her grand mother, so when she mentioned that, yes, I asked her if she wanted to me to join her to her appointments. That seems to have gotten blown into me running back to comfort her the moment she reached out. I get other LBS have done that in the past, but that is not me.
Since we started hanging out, I will admit, I have enjoyed it. And that is what she would bring to the table. Our mutual humor and our connection. That is the only reason I haven't dismissed the idea of getting back together with her. But I have to clarify - just because I write that, doesn't mean I have decided to go all in. Like I said, I am very skeptic. She would need to prove it to me for me to even consider getting back together.
So when the comments here seem to focus on me holding on to her in hopes of recon or that I am chasing or pursuing her, I have to tell you that it is wrong. If anything, because it takes times away from discussing the situation and focusing on something I'm not struggling with. I am not trying to win her back here. I was considering mentioning or perhaps discussing where I stand with her but even that is not something I "urge" to do or something I consider of great importance. Was just a thought and I'm happy to put that aside.
LOL. Benny so many conflicting opinions.
To simplify without judgement. Know what you want. Find out where you stand. Walk away from what you don't want.
It's really that simple.
Hi Steve,
Thank you for the advice but I have to be able to tell you when I disagree with something. And I will push back until I am convinced otherwise. I hope that makes sense?
The only time I've basically said put DB aside is when we thought she had cancer. The way you read my posts simplifies what I say and I get that the information I give you is bits and pieces and not always the whole story. So completely understand how you would see it that way. I will re read my thread as well and see if I have missed clarifying certain things.
I do not agree the things I am saying aren't congruent but I know you and I have had our disagreements in the past on others things, similar to this. Us staying in touch after finding out the lump was benign was in no way "not DB:ing". For example, she would come over and pick up one of her boxes and move it to the other apartment, I could see how she uses those boxes as an excuse to contact me but there is nothing I could do about that. For weeks or even months, she would come over and pick up something small and stay and talk for a while. Even to this date, I am yet to contact her for any reason except for maybe a letter she has received in the mail. I have at no point suggested to meet up to do something. I have, however, accepted invitations to meet her at times and I have also declined multiple invitations to meet her.
What exactly do you feel would be the DB way of doing the above instead?
What I said was that if you really had no urge to get back together than the finalizing of D envelope would already been sent.
Ok, I understand but the word "urge" seems a bit strong to me but perhaps that is because English is a third language for me. No, now that I am seeing this side of her I am hesitating to send those in. Again, a bit too strong to say I expect some miracle turn around. If you have followed my thread and remember, it was after AS suggested that can wait that I decided to do that. That should hardly imply I expect a miracle turn around, don't you agree?
The only non DB thing that has been suggested her is to talk to her and I just wanted to listen to what everyone thinks about that. The way you write this
"she is showing interest, I can stop DBing!"
tells me that you think I've just forgot about the principles completely and let go. That is not the case. I haven't stopped DBing in every way. That simplifies what I say a lot. I am not planning on pursuing, I am not planning on courting her or showing any interest. A conversation would her could even be a statement from me, reminding her we can't keep hanging out like buddies.
I am and will be very skeptic. This is my life, and the pain I endured for that long, I don't take that lightly. I don't plan on foolishly running back to her arms because she shows some interest.
But I get why it would be perceived that way. And btw I appreciate the advice on setting a date for finalizing. That's not a bad idea.
Ben, all this is well and good. I am glad to see you can see how what your are saying wasn't lining up. I think you are making to fine a point on wording, but that is okay. Maybe that is part an parcel of English being a tertiary language for you.
However, I think you are over-confident in a lot of ways, and that is hurting you being able to see the reality of your situation. For instance, you come here asking about having a conversation about "us". That is inherently showing an urge to move things to the next level. I've had a lot of "us" talks in my 51+ years on this earth, and the ones I initiated were all to do one thing: get the R moved on or moved out.
You then talk about not forgetting DB principles, and then post an entire paragraph full of DB principle breaking:
For example, she would come over and pick up one of her boxes and move it to the other apartment, I could see how she uses those boxes as an excuse to contact me but there is nothing I could do about that. For weeks or even months, she would come over and pick up something small and stay and talk for a while. Even to this date, I am yet to contact her for any reason except for maybe a letter she has received in the mail. I have at no point suggested to meet up to do something. I have, however, accepted invitations to meet her at times and I have also declined multiple invitations to meet her.
You asked me what you think DBing would be different than this? EASY!
Setting a date for all her stuff to be out of your house. Not allowing her to use you as a storage facility. To come and go to get "a box" at time as she sees fit. Not be busy with GAL (since you claimed to be a GAL master earlier) that when she came to get her stuff you made it clear that she couldn't stay because you had things to do. By declining all requests of her to meet......or better yet doing as AS says (and I highly highly highly suggest you read AS's post very carefully, studying it, it is gold!) going dark on her. No where in DBing are you to be in that much communication with your WAW, who has moved out and is living on her own!
I also question the fact that you haven't contacted her for any reason. Maybe you have, but I do question if you are being truthful with that. I know how human nature works. I find it hard that she would be contacting you first as often and much as she has without you reciprocating and being the first reach out once in a while.
"Ok, I understand but the word "urge" seems a bit strong to me but perhaps that is because English is a third language for me. No, now that I am seeing this side of her I am hesitating to send those in. Again, a bit too strong to say I expect some miracle turn around. If you have followed my thread and remember, it was after AS suggested that can wait that I decided to do that. That should hardly imply I expect a miracle turn around, don't you agree?"
Here I argue that being her buddy, allowing yourself to be friend-zoned, not making her get all of her stuff out of your place, not sending the envelope in to finalize the D, all of that YES points to you, whether you want to admit it or not, hoping for a miracle turnaround on her part. Heck even the "she had a lump so I put aside DBing" is full of excuses. She has no family here. Etc. TOUGH! That is the choice a person makes when they decide to end their marriage to someone. That they will have to rely on themselves, or someone that isn't their ex-husband (or soon to be) to handle the lumps (sorry couldn't resist!) that life throws at them.
So just based on your posts since the one that that asked if you should have a discussion about "us", I would give your DBing a failing grade. I think it is R2C that likes to say that we DB for the rest of our lives. It isn't something that we pull out to try to save our marriage, and then set aside once we are successful or fail at that endeavour. DBing was not something that should have been set aside, even for her health scare. "Sorry to hear that, please let me know how it turns out."
Anyway, I do not remember butting heads with you in the past, but if we did I can see why. Your idea of DBing is flat-out wrong. Sorry to be blunt. But if you think anything you've done since she reached out to about the lump was solid DBing, I have no other choice but to tell you that simple truth.
So get back on the horse. Go NC as AS says. Words are cheap. Show her through your actions that you won't settle for the friend-zone.
I'll shut up now Ben. Sorry if I hurt your feelings ever, that was never my intent. My whole goal with chiming in to people's threads is to help them through to a healthy and happy future. Whether that future includes their WAS or not.
God bless.
No matter what anyone thinks, I wasn't waiting around,hoping she would reach out one day. Her aunt died of breast cancer as did her grand mother, so when she mentioned that, yes, I asked her if she wanted to me to join her to her appointments. That seems to have gotten blown into me running back to comfort her the moment she reached out. I get other LBS have done that in the past, but that is not me.
I do remember that and I believe I supported your decision to be available to her during that time. Personally I feel that when it comes to a health issue, especially a serious one, DB'ing should be temporarily set aside if it's what the WAS wants. My XW went through cancer after S and she did NOT want my support, so I respected her wishes. But in your case it did seem she wanted your assistance, so no harm there at all.
Since we started hanging out, I will admit, I have enjoyed it. And that is what she would bring to the table.
Good enough! If you enjoy her company and have no expectations beyond friendship then carry on. I know a lot of people here feel they can't ever be friends with their ex and that is perfectly valid if that's how they feel. But after some time went by after D, my XW and I became closer as friends and remain so to this day. Some people can't do that but it works for us.
I was considering mentioning or perhaps discussing where I stand with her but even that is not something I "urge" to do or something I consider of great importance. Was just a thought and I'm happy to put that aside.
If you're just curious and have no expectations then I don't see a problem with asking her something like "Just curious why you're suddenly interested in hanging out so much?" Kind of a ping without it being a relationship discussion per se. Normally I wouldn't suggest that but your situation is a bit unique. You say you've moved on and I really do believe you, so you're better equipped to have a conversation like that than most here.
Hi Steve,
If that is the case, I have completely misunderstood everything about DB. I don't remember those things from the book.
I'll start by saying, you are dead wrong if you think I have reached out to her at all. But I won't spend any time convincing you otherwise. Our communication is mostly through messenger and I've just scrolled back weeks and can't find a single conversation started by me. Why do you think I would lie about this? Why would telling you lies benefit me in any way?
Sorry, I haven't read DB in over a year but I can't remember specific advice like that. Telling her to get her things on a specific date etc. But now that I thought about it, we did set a date. She told me in December she is moving to a new apartment and asked if she could get them when she is settled in to the new apartment. Then came the cancer issue and I wasn't about to bring up some boxes when that happened and Steve, I'm sorry but that is pointless to discuss with me. I couldn't care less if it sounds like I am making excuses. That is a valid reason to put DB aside. Not sure if you remember but AS and others(vets I believe) agreed I should put DB aside when I received that information. I will take in to consideration any advice I receive here but if anyone tries to explain how I should ignore her when she found that lump, it is a waste of our time. It could have been a friend who reached out I hardly have any contact with, someone who did something hurtful in the past even, I would still let go of any grudge and call them up immediately. So most certainly I would do that in this case and if DB is against that, I do not care.
Steve, you seem so sure I am being friend zoned. AS, perhaps you forgot but a few posts ago you agreed she was sending out recon vibes? I know the friend zone vibe and that's not what I feel when we meet anymore. But doesn't mean I am sure she wouldn't back off if I showed interest. That's why I haven't. She asks to meet and do things together at times. I thought DB encouraged to accept some invitations and decline others? Not to go completely dark as the one and only solution? I'll try to read it again after I'm finished with the current book I'm reading.
AS, exactly! I wouldn't be bothered by any reply I get from her because I am not that attached to her anymore. Steve asked earlier what my level of detachment is and if on a scale of 1-10, 10 being finding out she is dating my brother then I'm probably at 8 or maybe even 9. I don't have any expectations.
She might even be dating someone right now! I have no idea. We meet maybe once a week and don't talk about that.
I do enjoy her company as a friend but I don't feel friend zoned. I have a female friend I hang out with a lot, there is absolutely no attraction between us. That's not the vibe with W these days. However, that does not mean I trust her motives. Perhaps this is, as you said earlier, her way of keeping me from moving on. Perhaps she is doing this after finding out I was on that celebrity dating app. That could be what motivates her and if I show any interest, I don't know what would happen.
Steve, you seem so sure I am being friend zoned. .
There's only one way to find out.
AS, perhaps you forgot but a few posts ago you agreed she was sending out recon vibes? .
Maybe Mummin can pass her a note and find out if she likes you? LOL
I know the friend zone vibe and that's not what I feel when we meet anymore. But doesn't mean I am sure she wouldn't back off if I showed interest. That's why I haven't. .
This is what I don't get. Don't you want to find out where you stand?
She asks to meet and do things together at times. I thought DB encouraged to accept some invitations and decline others? .
I don't think this is applicable when you are separated and D papers are in the process.
This is what I don't get. Don't you want to find out where you stand?
Well, yes but I'm in no rush. I was playing the long game as we spoke of earlier. We do flirt when she's over.
I don't think this is applicable when you are separated and D papers are in the process.
We didn't see each other for 5 months and then only started talking after the cancer thing. When we do meet, it is never any of the things we used to do. No dinners, wine etc. I didn't know DB said to only agree to meeting again after NC if she is willing to R and that is the purpose of that meeting?
But if I find out that she wants us to remain buddies, it doesn't take the DB books for me to understand I need to end that immediately.
Ben, good luck, and I mean that sincerely. You clearly still care about her and for that reason I hope she is interested in giving it another go. Since you've been here, your love for her is evident. And I do like that you are taking the attitude that she can't just waltz right back. I do hope for your sake she is interested in recommitting to MR. Just keep your expectations low.
Thank you so much Steve!
Just keep your expectations low.
Absolutely! I am very skeptic and her behavior lately could just as well be motivated by her own selfish reasons. I am still of the mindset that I believe none of what she says and half what she does. My trust for her was broken so I can't trust anything when it comes to her. Perhaps one day she'll have earned that trust again, perhaps not.
Divorce final August 3, 2020
Sorry to hear Benny. Anything new with Ex?
Sorry Ben. But remember, just a step in the process. If she ever wants to R, and you are still open to it, being D'd won't prevent that.
Sorry to hear Ben!
Any other updates? You sure did sound like you have been in a good place nonetheless.
HUGE thank you for helping me find this place!!!
I've tried to post as little as possible. I never had any conversation about us with XW after all. I just noticed hints that she wasn't ready to commit to anything so I pulled back. But I got tired of the process. Even the slightest sign of interest from me and I could tell she would get weird again. So I stopped. I stopped seeing her, I went NC, not as a strategy, but to keep me sane.
Besides all this, I've been feeling down for a while now. I did a blood test to find out I have low testosterone levels. 12 nmol/L to be exact if anyone is interested in these things. In USA I would probably get TRT easily but here they consider this normal for my age. Few things make me happy these days but when they do, I'm only happy for a short period of time.
Richard Pryor said in an interview once, "Laughter is a great healer of pain, but the laugh is over and then there's the pain again". That is how I feel. When I'm with my friends and family I must seem so strong to them for having been through all this, but when they leave and I'm alone again...there's the pain again.
Today would have been my second wedding anniversary. So I was married 1 year and 364 days. I received the email from court about the divorce being final and forwarded it to XW. She replied and said she received it as well with a sad emoji.
5 minutes later she sent a link to some restaurant and asked if I had been there. I was in and out of meetings yesterday so didn't answer until much later. She wrote again "Has work picked up again?" I answered and said no, I'm having meetings for a new project"
That's it so far.
I stopped going because I wasn't happy with any of the therapists. I have spent close to 15.000 USD in therapy since this started and seen 5 different therapists but none of them have been any good. The first one was ok for us as couples therapy as it reduced the tension right after BD, but after that nothing. There are so many out there and it's difficult to find someone good.
I will, however, book an appointment with a private doctor in a few months to see if I can get them to agree to TRT. I mean, I haven't missed a single days work out since 2018. I have a strict diet and I sleep well at nights. Those are all the things required to naturally increase your testosterone levels but my levels are that of someone who chain smokes every day, eats sugar daily and doesn't work out. Makes no sense.
The reason I asked is because you seem to be suffering from PTSD. I know you think T treatments will cure you, but likely it won't. You've been through an emotionally traumatic experience and it is important that you deal with that properly.
$15k, when it comes to emotional and psychological health is immaterial in my opinion. I agree there are a lot of bad therapists out there. But would you stop buying and driving cars just because you had 5 bad cars? Keep looking, because when you find a good therapist it can make all the difference in the world!
If you have trouble getting a doctor to get you into low T therapy, look into a substance called shilajit. It is an organic compound from the Himalayan mountains. I started adding an 1/8th of a teaspoon of some extracted powder (the raw stuff can have metals so be careful) and feel that for my age my T levels are now really good and I see some big benefits from it (increase stamina, good gains from workouts, etc). Just a thought.
Thank you for your reply, Steve. I really appreciate it
I started reading about PTSD and that seems about right. Most of the symptoms are there. The difficulty focusing, the terrible dreams, avoiding anything that can remind me of the event. I sometimes have to walk past the location of the wedding ceremony and that's probably the scariest one. It's gotten better but that's still the a tough one. I used to stop, look at the building from a distance and just envision how that day would be. That entire area is beautiful, by the harbor and the building is on top of a hill so it's so strange to not be able to look at it.
You're right and there's this new app where you can speak to a therapist on a video call so I'll try that and see.
And thank you so much for the advice on shilajit. I haven't heard of that before so I'll definitely look into it!
Thank you for asking! Will you not share your story as well? Noticed you don't have a thread.
I try not to update much unless I have something absolutely necessary to say. But a lot has happened so I'll try to summarize -
Tried to find a therapist and did a lot of research and contacted one that seemed suitable for me. Twice she has had to cancel because of a sick child so I'm still waiting for my appointment.
One major update is that there was this incident where I had to rush to the hospital emergency room about two weeks ago. I really don't want to write about it here because it's a bit personal and I'm fine now, but it was scary at the time and for a moment, I thought I might not make it.
On the way over I messaged XW but didn't tell her the whole story so not to worry her, but I realized she is still listed as my emergency contact(that's fixed now). She was at her close friends birthday party and tried calling me, I couldn't answer. She messaged and asked what hospital and insisted on coming over while I insisted she should stay. I downplayed the seriousness of the situation and told her everything is fine, that I just wanted to give her a heads up in case they call her but she wasn't having it. I then lied and told her I will be released soon so there's no point. After that, I couldn't be on my phone for a while so the next time I looked at it, she was on her way to my place.
I was able to leave the hospital later that evening, came home and XW was waiting there. She bombarded me with questions and seemed very concerned and I don't blame her of course. She stayed at my place until late and then took a taxi back to her place.
A few days after that I had a follow up meeting with a doctor who wanted to make sure I was alright and fortunately I was, XW new what time the appointment was and messaged me right after and asked how I was and I explained everything is fine. We haven't spoken after that, a bit more than a week.
I should add that I am doing well otherwise, back at the gym and seeing good progress. I had a goal for my 40th birthday and looks like I am on track.
In two weeks I am going to Athens for a live show I am promoting. Greece has so many outdoor theaters so it's great to be able to do live events again.
Wow, sorry to hear about the medical scare but glad you are doing well! It's nice that your XW does at least care, I have no doubt it was genuine. My XW is the same, doesn't mean she wants to get back with me but she does care and asks questions about my health sometimes (if I'm sick or something), offers to help and shows interest.
Have a good time in Greece! I've never been, it's on my bucket list!