Hey everyone. First time post and never thought I would ever be in this situation.
My wife and I have been together for over 15 years, married for 13 years and have 2 kids under 11. She dropped the bombshell about a week ago that she doesn’t feel the same way about me, amongst other reasons which I will go into below. She has been thinking about it for a few months and has made her decision but has not spoken to me about it and is not interested in getting help to try and save what we have (the only reason she will have marriage counseling is to help me come to terms with it). It’s quite a long story.
In September she changed jobs, she has a male friend that she worked with for 7 years. She said to me she wasn’t sure how she felt about him(like she may have feelings for him) I did not take this very well at all, she was going away for a few days and cleared her head and realised they are just good friends and she was panicking about moving jobs and not seeing one of her best friends / have someone to help every day. She did also started to confide in him rather than me as she didn’t want to worry me with her worries (I had a few issues about 3 years ago and had counseling to deal with grief/Loss. My mum died in Nov 13 and then her Father in Jan 14 and since then I have been needy, clingy questioning her and jealous).We had a chat and worked out we needed to learn to communicate again. Which I feel has not happened and enough effort has been put in. I trust and believe her but it did affect me. Intimacy stopped as she wanted to wait until it felt natural again, this has also affected me.
She has said that it has been slowly building up over the last few years, I believe I had an underlying issue with loss which wasn’t apparent. When she said what she said in September I became really unsettled and it became obvious to me that I need to sort myself out which I have taken responsibility for , I have had, and I am still having counselling and try and meditation(mindfulness) every day, which over time the last 4/5 months has help loads. I still have a way to go but I have made loads of progress.
I think she wanted me to move out. I have moved into the spare room. We are just taking a day at a time. I am trying to give her space but it is so hard.
I am not ready to just give up on 15 years just for the sake of a couple of years where we have lost our way but it is so difficult when she has said she doesn’t love me in that way anymore.
Any advice would be greatly received.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thanks Cadet.
I will have a look at all these links.
Hopefully I can get some advice for others.
I really dont want this. I love her so much.
Hi BV -
Sorry you are here, but you are in the right place. There are some great people here who will be along shortly to help you through this.
The best thing you can do right now is give your W space, so you are off to a great start there. Keep doing that. I know it's hard to do at the start, but the more you find other things to do with your time, the more you focus on yourself, the better off you will be.
You would be best off right now to not pursue your W. She is pulling away from you. That may slow down in the future, but it will not right now. It is not a good look to be running after someone who is pulling away. It also will make you feel much worse, so stop pursuing her. It's what she wants.
You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. In fact, sometimes doing nothing helps a whole lot with detachment. You can check out my thread and others if you want to see how to do that.
Keep coming here to post your thoughts, you've made a good decision there.
Stay strong
Thanks IronWill
Can you link me to your thread?
She has agreed to marriage counselling but only to help me come to terms with it. I want to go to try and save the relationship. What are people opinions on marriage counselling? I have looked on the net and it is a mind field.
I am in the early stages of trying the Last Resort Technique so fingers crossed this helps.
I am at the stage where I am pretty sure she will not change her mind but I am not just going to role over on 15 years of mainly good times. If it has been my mental health issues that have gradually pushed her away then she needs to understand that I am sorting that out (and have made alot of progress)
Thanks
BV
Bud, welcome to the forums. Sorry you're going through this! First, you're not going to like our advice because it's going to seem very counter-intuitive to what your heart is telling you to do. But as IW said, you've got to back off and give her time and space. You've got to quit questioning her, quit pressuring her, quit moping around her and being desperate and needy. All of that is NOT attractive. She says she's done, and she means it... for now. That may change later but for now you need to understand she has NO DESIRE to work on things or to even talk about it. She doesn't want you to fix the problems, do more housework, pay more attention to her. In fact those things will just drive her farther away because she'll see it all as "too little too late" or tricks to get her back. So you pull back. You read Sandi's rules and you behave like that when you're around her. You learn to be VERY scarce. It seems wrong, but it's what works and it's what she wants.
(the only reason she will have marriage counseling is to help me come to terms with it).
Do not go to MC. She will just use it as leverage for a separation/ divorce.
I became really unsettled and it became obvious to me that I need to sort myself out which I have taken responsibility for , I have had, and I am still having counselling and try and meditation(mindfulness) every day, which over time the last 4/5 months has help loads. I still have a way to go but I have made loads of progress.
Awesome, that's perfect! Do it for yourself, and over time she will see your changes and learn they are real and not just tricks. But it will take many months for her to believe it.
I think she wanted me to move out.
Don't move out! We've seen LBS's move out in the hopes of appeasing the WAS and end up sleeping on friend's couches or in their parents' basement while the WAS is living like a queen in the family home and even having OM over for fun times. I've even seen two instances where OM moved into the family home and the LBS was relegated to waiting on his own damned porch to drop off and pick up kids. It doesn't get much more emasculating than that.
I have moved into the spare room.
You shouldn't have done that. She's the one that wants out of the M, she should be the one that goes and sleeps somewhere else. If the marital home is the castle, the master bed is the throne. You shouldn't surrender the throne. Your attitude should be "I'm sleeping here, you can sleep here or in the spare bedroom or in the bathtub or the doghouse, I don't care." We always advice LBS's to move back into the bedroom. Will she like it? No. Will she complain about it? More than likely. Should you back down? NO! She has lost respect for you, this is a step in earning it back.
I am not ready to just give up on 15 years just for the sake of a couple of years where we have lost our way but it is so difficult when she has said she doesn’t love me in that way anymore.
The woman you knew and loved is gone. She's been replaced by a WAS. You're clinging to the notion that you've got to hang on until your old W comes back, but that is going to take a very long time. It took my XW a good 3 years before parts of her "old self" started returning. And even now almost 8 years later I'd say she's about 50% of her old self. It doesn't always take them that long, but the point I'm trying to make is you need a lot of patience.
Sorry me again. Is the divorce remedy reccomend for my situation?
Sorry me again. Is the divorce remedy reccomend for my situation?
Yes
Thanks AnotherStander. I will give all these a go. I am not sure it will be wise to move back into the main bedroom.
Thanks Cadet I am going to order from amazon.
She has already started telling all her friends. Should I worry about this? I have told some of my family and friends but only so I have people to support me.
She has already started telling all her friends. Should I worry about this? I have told some of my family and friends but only so I have people to support me.
You cannot control what W does, unfortunately. You can only control yourself.
I would recommend against trying to get anyone to "help her see that what she is doing is wrong". This never works. In fact, it can have the opposite effect of driving her farther away and causing more resentment.
It is important to have your family in your corner, but I would not talk badly about W in front of them. Their natural reaction will be to tell you to move on and that you deserve better. The reason they do this is because they do not want to see you suffering and in pain.
If you decide to stand for your marriage, I can tell you from experience that will be the last easy decision you will make.
Standing is a marathon. This will take a long time. You will get beaten up, dragged through the mud, and you will question why you are doing this. There will be a rollercoaster of emotions along the way.
Your job is to get as strong, as centered, and as grounded as you can. That is what will help you get through this.
Hang in there.
Should have the DR book today.
Keeping my emotions in check seems to be the hardest at the moment.
In my panic when this first happened just over a week ago i begged for MC. As I said she has now agreed but only to help me come to terms with what is happening. The advice so far is to not have MC. I am a bit stuck on what to do here.
Bud, you are getting a ton of great advice here.
Please consider following it all. ESPECIALLY the moving back into the MBR. Women's attraction follows respect. If your W doesn't respect you then it is nearly impossible for her to be attracted to you. Take back the MBR. She may hate you for it, but she will respect you.
Read DR. Read all of cadet's links. Learn, implement, grow and change.
Should have the DR book today.
Good! It's a great tool for you to have.
Keeping my emotions in check seems to be the hardest at the moment.
Mindfulness and meditation has helped me a lot - you might want to consider checking out some meditation apps. They help you to stay present, in the current moment.
Your emotions are going to be all over the place, for a long time. You have to figure out what works best for you for dealing with them. Given that W is mentally checked out of the R right now, I would advise against showing any emotions in front of her. Practice not reacting when she says something to you, just listen to the words, not how they are spoken.
Also - the validation thread that Cadet posted to you is a golden one. Read it backwards and forwards. Sandy's rules also.
In my panic when this first happened just over a week ago i begged for MC. As I said she has now agreed but only to help me come to terms with what is happening. The advice so far is to not have MC. I am a bit stuck on what to do here.
Some people here have differing opinions on MC. I'll give you mine - but ultimately it is up to you to decide what you want to do.
I decided I was not interested in attending MC with someone who did not want to work on the R. It was a self-protection thing - I did not need to hear all the confusing and hurtful things that W was thinking, and especially in front of a MC who had no clue what our lives were about prior to BD. I did not need a third party commenting on our personal lives when I knew that W was on her way out the door.
Now, if W had decided that she wanted to seriously work on the R, that would have been a different story.
Again, it is your choice. That's just my take on it.
Stay strong
Bud, I did the MC thing. At first it was just my W agreeing so she could check it off the list things we tried. In my case, working with the C, it turned more into IC for me with my W present. Which I think helped my sitch because she could see that the 180s I was implementing were getting cemented in therapy. When she decided she was going to recommit to the marriage, it turned into more traditional MC. That was due to the flexibility of the C. If you do go through with MC do not settle for a less than ideal C.
Thanks AnotherStander. I will give all these a go. I am not sure it will be wise to move back into the main bedroom.
Did you read the part where I said you wouldn't like our advice because it's counter-intuitive and goes against what your heart is telling you? Yeah. You can follow your heart and make things much worse. Or you can start making the hard choices to DB and increase your chances of a future recon.
Bud, I did the MC thing. At first it was just my W agreeing so she could check it off the list things we tried. In my case, working with the C, it turned more into IC for me with my W present. Which I think helped my sitch because she could see that the 180s I was implementing were getting cemented in therapy. When she decided she was going to recommit to the marriage, it turned into more traditional MC. That was due to the flexibility of the C. If you do go through with MC do not settle for a less than ideal C.
Thanks Steve85. How are things with your relationship now? My wife is just going to help me to come to terms with it but my inital reason was to go to try and fix or talk about it (I know is this is wrong)
What are the 180s?
Did you also do the DBing techniques that everyone has advised?
Lots of really good advice. Just want to make sure I do the right thing.
Bud, I did the MC thing. At first it was just my W agreeing so she could check it off the list things we tried. In my case, working with the C, it turned more into IC for me with my W present. Which I think helped my sitch because she could see that the 180s I was implementing were getting cemented in therapy. When she decided she was going to recommit to the marriage, it turned into more traditional MC. That was due to the flexibility of the C. If you do go through with MC do not settle for a less than ideal C.
Thanks Steve85. How are things with your relationship now? My wife is just going to help me to come to terms with it but my inital reason was to go to try and fix or talk about it (I know is this is wrong)
What are the 180s?
Did you also do the DBing techniques that everyone has advised?
Lots of really good advice. Just want to make sure I do the right thing.
My R is in reconciling and piecing, and has been for almost 2 years (she recommitted to the marriage in March of 2018.)
Stop initiating all R talks. If she initiates one then listen and validate.
180s are reversing course on bad behavior. In sitch I had isolated myself from years. We were two individuals living in the same house. I started to reengage in the home dynamic. I was bitter, angry and resentful. I became someone that was pleased, upbeat, happy and cheerful. I pouted and used passive-aggressive behavior when I didn't get my way. I became someone that remained even if I didn't get my way. (Look up NIce Guy Sydrome.) Anything you do that is negative and destructive, 180 on that! And note, even thought I had isolated myself prior to BD doesn't mean I shouldn't have been detached and GAL. Detachment is not isolation. GAL just means you are busy. Lots of LBSs get tied up on this and think "I was unavailable prior to BD, how does detachment and GAL help?" Don't be that guy.
Yes, on day 2 of my sitch I remembered DB from my first sitch in 2005. And I got started on doubling-down on DBing to the best of my ability.
I received the DR book yesterday. I have started reading it. Are there any quick wins (I am a slow reader)?
Current sitch, I am in the spare room, most things we have done separately, once the kids are in bed we are in separate rooms watching TV if one of us is not out. Sunday we sat down and had dinner together.
I know MC has mixed reviews on here but we spoke about this last night and she is keen to book this is asap, I don't know if is this a good thing or a bad thing. I just want to make sure we have the right counseller, as I said she doesn't want to fix it (says she doesn't love me in that way anymore) but I do.
She has plans on Friday night so I plan to go and do something on Saturday night, not sure what yet.
I am still highly emotional (it comes in waves) but I am managing to keep it together when I am around her and the kids.
At the moment we are just doing everything separately, which I am find soooo tough, but then she did want space to work out who she is.
I really appreciate all the advice so far.
Bud,
I can not stress this enough. Do not attend MC.
Why are you waiting until she has plans to make plans. Bud, first order of business is to go out and GAL. Stop reacting to her actions.
Why are you waiting until she has plans to make plans. Bud, first order of business is to go out and GAL. Stop reacting to her actions.
I hear you. Am actually a little annoyed that I didn't get there first. At the moment I just don't feel like doing anything but I know I need to. Thanks for the motivation!
I received the DR book yesterday. I have started reading it. Are there any quick wins (I am a slow reader)?
No, read it cover to cover and then read it again. Pay attention to Sandi's rules in particular, they are your template on lovingly detaching. Time is on your side, I realize you probably think you need to do something, anything and do it fast but this is a MARATHON.
I know MC has mixed reviews on here but we spoke about this last night and she is keen to book this is asap, I don't know if is this a good thing or a bad thing.
It's definitely a bad thing. It is her way to escalate separation/ divorce using a 3rd party "professional" as a shield. Here is how it will play out:
C- so can anything be done to save this?
You- YES I am willing to do anything!
C- Great, what about you?
W- No, I'm done, it's over and I want him to know and accept it.
C- Aaaah, well it sounds like perhaps a trial separation would be a good idea so the two of you can think about things.
W- YES YES YES how soon can we do this? When can he move out?
Look at the timeline in my signature. I've been here a while. I've seen ^^^this^^^ happen more times than I can count, including in my own sitch.
I just want to make sure we have the right counseller, as I said she doesn't want to fix it (says she doesn't love me in that way anymore) but I do.
So you want to force what you want on her? THAT NEEDS TO STOP RIGHT AWAY. How much do you love her? Enough to give her what she wants? Enough to let her go? Enough to put her needs ahead of yours? YOU want to save the M. SHE DOES NOT. You need to set your wants aside and start respecting hers. Why? Because if you don't fight her on this then she'll stop seeing you as the pressuring, manipulating, controlling bad guy that she desperately needs out of her life. And THAT is what it will take to possibly change her mind about you and about the M.
It's definitely a bad thing. It is her way to escalate separation/ divorce using a 3rd party "professional" as a shield. Here is how it will play out:
C- so can anything be done to save this?
You- YES I am willing to do anything!
C- Great, what about you?
W- No, I'm done, it's over and I want him to know and accept it.
C- Aaaah, well it sounds like perhaps a trial separation would be a good idea so the two of you can think about things.
W- YES YES YES how soon can we do this? When can he move out?
Look at the timeline in my signature. I've been here a while. I've seen ^^^this^^^ happen more times than I can count, including in my own sitch.
This is so good. In my sitch, I think the reason it worked, is because while my W wanted S and eventually D, she wasn't ready to rip that bandaid off. I also had a C that didn't believe in S....or D for that matter. Which is why if you insist on doing this I highly recommend a faith-based MC.
I will have to see about the MC as I think she has booked it now. I know you are going to all tell me off.
I think the first session is actually just an assessment of the sitch.
@AnotherStander I really do hear what you are saying. I will have a think about it and see if there is a way of not going. It is so hard to know what to do for the best.
Bud: W I’ve thought about it and have decided that if you are not willing to work on our marriage that attending MC would be a waste of time and money.
Trust me you will regret going and most likely will fall apart emotionally and make matters worse.
Bud, listen to these guys, and listen to me. I came through all of this-- my W telling me she no longer loved me, that she didn't see any hope for us... her becoming embroiled in an affair with a guy who at the time was pretty much my only friend-- and eventually made it through to reconciliation and piecing. From my experience, and from following so many other guys' experiences on here, i can tell you, without reservation:
1) Absolutely do NOT go to MC with her right now! She is ONLY using it as a box-checking exercise to make herself look better and give herself ammunition for a separation/divorce. I don't care if you gave her a written promise signed in triplicate and sealed with your own blood... DON'T GO. Who cares if you promised her?! What loyalty/fealty/trustworthiness has she shown YOU?!? It seems from what you have said that she is very likely in at least an emotional affair if not more! DON'T GO! MC is reserved for a) when BOTH parties are interested in saving the MR, and b) when the two spouses in question are the ONLY two parties involved. ALL AFFAIRS AND INAPPROPRIATE EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENTS WITH MEMBERS OF THE OPPOSITE SEX MUST BE ENDED before MC can be undertaken with any hope of success. So, I don't care what you have to tell her, as long as it includes "I'm not going."
2) Don't Go!
3) Move your a$$ back into the MBR and reclaim your ballz.
4) Did I mention that you shouldn't go to MC right now? If not... DONT GO!!!
Take care of yourself. 180, GAL, become (or return to being, whichever) AMOAFWL!!
Bud, listen to these guys! By time I got here I was already in MC. I got lucky because my experience is the vast vast minority. You are better off not going. Just like these guys are telling you.
Well Bud, I´m a survivor from the dark side. And I agree with the guys here. Been there, seen that...there´s no need of MC. In fact it could turn against you. Get out of there.
This is so hard. I actually feel the life being sucked out of me. I am going to do my best not to go. I am actually having IC anyway.
This is so hard. I actually feel the life being sucked out of me. I am going to do my best not to go. I am actually having IC anyway.
Just tell her flatly and simply.
"I’ve decided against going to marriage counseling. I feel that it would just be going through the motions at this point. I’m going to start individual counseling on my own. A lot has happened and I need help processing it so I can heal and move forward."
This is so hard. I actually feel the life being sucked out of me. I am going to do my best not to go. I am actually having IC anyway.
Just tell her flatly and simply.
"I’ve decided against going to marriage counseling. I feel that it would just be going through the motions at this point. I’m going to start individual counseling on my own. A lot has happened and I need help processing it so I can heal and move forward."
Steve85, can this kick you in the rear by the spouse saying, "well, if you don't go to marriage counseling then clearly you aren't interested in saving the marriage so what's the point?"
This is so hard. I actually feel the life being sucked out of me. I am going to do my best not to go. I am actually having IC anyway.
Just tell her flatly and simply.
"I’ve decided against going to marriage counseling. I feel that it would just be going through the motions at this point. I’m going to start individual counseling on my own. A lot has happened and I need help processing it so I can heal and move forward."
Steve85, can this kick you in the rear by the spouse saying, "well, if you don't go to marriage counseling then clearly you aren't interested in saving the marriage so what's the point?"
Wait. So you are worried about what the person that has already told you that they aren't interested in saving the marriage thinks? This is called ATTACHMENT. It is the opposite of what you should be: detached.
ocean, think about it this way. If you were dating a guy, and 5 dates in he went, "Eh, you know, I really don't want to be in a relationship with you." What would you do? Would you start throwing yourself at him? Calling him non-stop? Pushing yourself on him? Wanting to attend couples counseling with him? OF course not! You'd have a healthy outlook of "I don't want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with me!"
Our sitches are no different. The WAS has said, loud and clear, "I don't want to be in a relationship with you!" It is unhealthy to respond to that by throw yourself at them, call them non-stop, push yourself on them. Or attend counseling with them. As DR says, you should have an "as if" attitude towards them.
People want what they can't have. The sooner Budvegas starts moving on without her the more of a chance she will wake-up and go "WHAT THE HECK AM I DOING!?!?"
Hoosjim cracks me up, I love the humorous spin he puts on it but he still busts the nail with his hammer! Good advice!
I understand your reluctance to back out after she set something up. A good compromise might be to go to the first session and then afterwards tell her something along the lines of LH's suggestion (W I’ve thought about it and have decided that if you are not willing to work on our marriage that attending MC would be a waste of time and money.)
EDIT- Just saw Steve's response, I really like that one as well:
"I’ve decided against going to marriage counseling. I feel that it would just be going through the motions at this point. I’m going to start individual counseling on my own. A lot has happened and I need help processing it so I can heal and move forward."
Telling her you need IC before MC is a great idea. It takes the MC pressure off, and it allows you to work on yourself and leave her alone.
Freaking out a bit. She made it very clear that she is using the MC to talk about next steps (telling the kids, living arrangements, house etc)
This has been less than 2 weeks for me and I said that it is all going too quick.....she has said it is going to slow.
I am literally losing my mind
B,
Just so you know it is ok to go to the divorce facilitator if you think it well help you and the kids in the dissolving of the marriage.
Just don’t call it marriage counseling because it isn’t.
I’m not an expert here but I went through a similar spot when I
Got the BD a few months ago.
It was on and I couldn’t stop it. W wanted a separation on paper, tell
Kids, etc. We didn’t need MC for that. It was my worst fear and I am alive still.
I hate it but haven’t given up.
I don’t think the MC is going to matter either way in your case. If it was me at the time
I would have gone. W was smart enough to know it wouldn’t help and maybe hurt at the time
If BD.
I felt so rushed but things did slow down after. Be glad you are here early.
I begged, pleaded, moped around, etc. at first.
Let her do it and start working on yourself.
See how it goes and take it slow. I would only say
To hold your ground and don’t make any really bad
Decisions on emotions right now.
It’s fast right now but will slow up and you will be able to assess more clearly over time.
I totally get where you are. I was there a few months ago. You have more time than you think. You don't need to fix this today. The sooner you start implementing the strategies here, the sooner you will feel better.
Thanks LH19 thinking of it as Facilitator does help a bit.
Greenman - Where are you at in your DBing?
I have started to make sure I go out if I can, this is tough when we have 2 kids.
I haven't begged or pleaded since BD and have tried to be as upbeat as possible...other than last night.
She is also saying she needs space, this is tough as we are both (at the moment) in the same house. Albeit in separate rooms.
I am about a quarter of the way through the DR book....I have never read so quick.
Hi BV,
You're in a tough spot. Its easy to be anxious, out of control and at times hopeless. All normal feelings for your sitch. Many of us have been there. I have 2 kids under 4 and can relate.
I can tell you that my W pushed hard for mediation and D at first as well. She wanted it as quick as possible. She wanted space and asked me to leave the house. Well its been 5 months and no D, no mediation and we both live in the house in limbo. Just because your W feels a way in this current moment, doesnt mean it may not change day by day.
No matter the outcome you've work to do on yourself and thats what DB is for.
Keep working on you. Your mind is spinning which is normal. It'll take time to get back to your baseline then build on it. With the help of the people here, you wont be at it alone.
Thanks again for the advice and support.
I know she is going to push to tell the kids. I feel like we should tell them something as I have been in the spare room for nearly 2 weeks.
What has everyone else done in this sitch? Kids are 10 and 8
Bud. You need to take control....OF YOURSELF.
It starts by taking back the MBR. I noticed you've dismissed that. I can tell you that if you do not do that you have close to a 0% of remaining married to this woman.
You also now know what her feelings on MC are. Did you see what I sent about what you should say about MC? You need to tell her that ASAP. Don't get in a discussion about. Say the statement above. When she starts complaining, etc you listen and validate. Then have a reason to end the conversation. "Sorry, I have somewhere I need to be."
Have you read sandi's rules? It doesn't seem that you have. Sandi gives good guidance on giving her space while living together. HINT: It is all about GAL! Stop sitting at home so much. BE BUSY!
Listen to Steve, dude. I'm a woman. This is a manhood/leadership issue. She doesn't respect you. If she doesn't respect you, she'll never come back.
I am listening to all of you. The situation is getting a little volatile now and the MBR issue will not help.
I have no doubt that she has lost respect for me in someways. When she BD she expected me to leave and was very much against me staying. I am not ruling out the MBR and I now know I shouldn't have given it up. At this moment it will not help the current sitch. Like a lot of people have said it is a marathon and I have put myself behind the starting line.
I do really appreciate all the advice everyone has given. I just got here a week too late
You got here years too late my friend.
I am listening to all of you. The situation is getting a little volatile now and the MBR issue will not help.
You are focuing on the wrong things.
You have 5 pages of assistance telling you its about respect - and focus on what you can control.... and you are ignoring this becuase its a "little volatile"... Reading between the lines, you don't want to rock the boat?
That boat has long since sailed ( as LH19 says - YEARS ) - so stop worrying about annoying her or upsetting her.. Focus on you and that all important respect.
MrBrside,
You are right there is an element of not wanting to rock the boat too much.
This has all come as a massive shock to me.
I dont even know how to approach the subject. And then what if she leaves? I know she has already mentally check out.
Right now the best thing that could happen to you is for her to leave.
I am contemplating leaving myself as I do most of the stuff at home. She would have to do it herself
I am listening to all of you. The situation is getting a little volatile now and the MBR issue will not help.
I have no doubt that she has lost respect for me in someways. When she BD she expected me to leave and was very much against me staying. I am not ruling out the MBR and I now know I shouldn't have given it up. At this moment it will not help the current sitch. Like a lot of people have said it is a marathon and I have put myself behind the starting line.
I do really appreciate all the advice everyone has given. I just got here a week too late
It's never too late to start DB'ing. You say the MBR issue will not help, yet you have everyone telling you it will. You know what's stopping you?... Fear. You are so scared that you're gonna piss your WW off that you won't do it. It's like you're scared that she'll want to get a divorce or something. Oh wait... she already does. You've got nothing to lose, man. And plenty to gain. Starting with the respect you deserve. And so what if she leaves? Honestly, you'll be better off. Detaching will become so much easier. Be a man and take back your bedroom. She's got complete control over you and she's loving it. And yes, she will be mad when you do it, because she's not getting everything she wants. And even though it may not seem like it, that's not a bad thing. Her fantasy has to crumble. It's not gonna happen with you baking cakes and feeding them to her. Shut down the bakery and be a man that commands respect. A man only a fool would leave. You can't nice her back, so quit trying. Get your balls back, focus on you, and forget about what she might do. That has to be your first step, or you're gonna be in limbo for a loooooong time...
DO NOT LEAVE THE HOME!
What do you mean you do everything?
Bud - tomorrow is the one year anniversay of my BD and my sitch is very similar to yours. I have learned a ton of stuff from these guys and the DB book. I'm sorry you are here but looking back, what you are experiencing now is, in my opinion, the worst part.
1. Do NOT move out. DON'T. She want's to leave - there is the door! I was going to be a nice guy and move out initially too in order to save her the aggravation in moving. I had this board and my attorney advise me not to.
2. When is your attorney appointment? You said soon. You need to have one and begin to protect yourself. It [censored], it hurts, it's expensive and when I did it, it was embarrassing. I felt like a failure. I am beyond grateful did it.
3. If she moves out, it'll suck not having your former person in the house, but it dissipates quicker than you'd imagine. She's no longer around and you can focus on you and begin to relax under your own roof. What's she doing at any given future point in time - working? the OM? Food shopping? Who knows, who freggin cares! She's not under your roof causing you misery.
4. What things are you wanting to get back into? What hobbies did you have before you got married that went away? Personally, i got back into playing guitar, playing hockey and photography. Think about this and pick one or two.
5. EXERCISE. Join CrossFit or a gym. Post BD, I used to walk in almost in tears saying I havent slept but 2 hrs the night before... they will understand. You need to put the adrenaline from fight vs flight to good use instead of you letting it wreck your mind.
Hi Budvegas,
I am contemplating leaving myself as I do most of the stuff at home. She would have to do it herself
If she wants out, why are you the one changing bedrooms and changing homes? I hope you are able to find it in yourself to reclaim the master bedroom for you and your kids. If a move must occur, be sure the kids stay with you or a 50/50 split is worked out first. Abandoning your kids is no bueno.
I am contemplating leaving myself as I do most of the stuff at home. She would have to do it herself
What would happen if you began doing only 50-60% of the work?
I am listening to all of you. The situation is getting a little volatile now and the MBR issue will not help.
I have no doubt that she has lost respect for me in someways. When she BD she expected me to leave and was very much against me staying. I am not ruling out the MBR and I now know I shouldn't have given it up. At this moment it will not help the current sitch. Like a lot of people have said it is a marathon and I have put myself behind the starting line.
I do really appreciate all the advice everyone has given. I just got here a week too late
It's never too late to start DB'ing. You say the MBR issue will not help, yet you have everyone telling you it will. You know what's stopping you?... Fear. You are so scared that you're gonna piss your WW off that you won't do it. It's like you're scared that she'll want to get a divorce or something. Oh wait... she already does. You've got nothing to lose, man. And plenty to gain. Starting with the respect you deserve. And so what if she leaves? Honestly, you'll be better off. Detaching will become so much easier. Be a man and take back your bedroom. She's got complete control over you and she's loving it. And yes, she will be mad when you do it, because she's not getting everything she wants. And even though it may not seem like it, that's not a bad thing. Her fantasy has to crumble. It's not gonna happen with you baking cakes and feeding them to her. Shut down the bakery and be a man that commands respect. A man only a fool would leave. You can't nice her back, so quit trying. Get your balls back, focus on you, and forget about what she might do. That has to be your first step, or you're gonna be in limbo for a loooooong time...
Bud, mtb is a DBing rockstar. You really need to pay heed here.
I am also detecting some strong Nice guy tendencies here. You may want to pick up the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. Here is the thing: You cannot nice her back. Walking on eggshells, tiptoeing around her is not going to turn your sitch around. You have to man up, stand up for yourself, learn to become an alpha male. Women do not fall for the pushover. Remember the good looking girls in high school. They were either dating overly macho jocks, or bad boys. Women are drawn to the guy that has either a little bit of bad side, or that thinks highly of himself. I believe that is one reason we are seeing so many divorces initiated by women today. The ones that thought the nice guy was sweet eventually see these other guys that are wild, or uber confident and think, I am with the wrong guy!
So stop worrying, as others have said, about upsetting her. Angering her. Or rocking the boat. Rock that boat! Just do it in a way that you can't be accused of abuse.
Tonight, move all of your stuff back in to the MBR. At bedtime, go get in the bed. WHen she protests simply say "I like sleeping here. You are welcome to as well, or you can sleep somewhere else." SHe will curse you out, yell, stomp her feet, but in the end she will respect you.
Thanks again for the advice and support.
I know she is going to push to tell the kids. I feel like we should tell them something as I have been in the spare room for nearly 2 weeks.
What has everyone else done in this sitch? Kids are 10 and 8
I would stop with the "we" things. Tell them yourself if you THINK it is right. This should not be a feeling (impulsive) decision.
Let her tell the kids if she is pushing so hard. You're actually worrying a lot about something that hasn't even happened. Is that worthwhile?
Also, don't move out, detach, don't believe anything she says, and work on your 180s. I know you're having a rough go right now but trust me, it gets better. It gets better faster when you decide it's so.
Hi Bud,
I have been here on these boards for ten years. I wish I had these guys telling me what to do when I arrived. If I did, I might not be divorced.
I moved out of the MBR. (DBing Mistake #1)
I did not reclaim the MBR (DBing Mistake #2)
I moved out of the house (DBing Mistake #3)
The one that wants out of the marriage does this. Not the one standing for it.
With that said. It was the best worst thing that I have ever went through. I focused on my personal growth and my role as DAD. I am a much better person having gone through it.
Everything happens for a reason. Every choice you have made has brought you to this point in your life. You have many critical choices to make, and every one of them will effect your future. If you let fear control you, you will make the wrong choices. As a man, you have to face your fears. Accept that she will leave you. Prepare for it. Embrace it. Stand up for your rights as dad. Do not try to control her. Control yourself. Control how you interact with her. You control you. She controls her.
Be a man of little words and much action. Stand on your core values.
I wish you well
PS: Avoid MC like the plague. IC is way more important right now. MC can happen after she comes begging you to take her back.
There definitely Nice Guy Tendencies. I will pick that book up.
All your comments are great. I think I can do this
At this point it looks like game over. Wants to tell the kids. All gone to S#$t
Lol. Bud you've been here for a month. That's one step in a 26 mile marathon. You don't believe this right now but it is game over when you say it's over.
Believe him, Bud. She feels power. Give her the breakup. It's not over, not by a long shot.
Bud, we've seen people go through D and the reconcile. It's never game over until you say it is! Remember Sandi's rules, one says "never give up!".
Bud, mine filed for D. He could have set this thing for hearing and been out by now. He hasn't even done a decree. I am as close to the edge as you get. But today I feel almost optimistic it won't happen. But that's my secret.
Bud, as others have said, if she’s worth it chances of reconciling are far, far from over. After BD and months of separation, my ex returned to sleeping in my arms 60% of the time. I decided she wasn’t worth it, but if yours is, don’t give up! Settle in that turning this around will take 6-12 months. That sounds long, but it’s probably fast compared to how long it took for all her resentment and wrong feelings to build up. You’ll also be using this time to GAL and build yourself up, so it won’t be a waste whatever the outcome.
Bud, as others have said, if she’s worth it chances of reconciling are far, far from over. After BD and months of separation, my ex returned to sleeping in my arms 60% of the time. I decided she wasn’t worth it, but if yours is, don’t give up! Settle in that turning this around will take 6-12 months. That sounds long, but it’s probably fast compared to how long it took for all her resentment and wrong feelings to build up. You’ll also be using this time to GAL and build yourself up, so it won’t be a waste whatever the outcome.
CW is right. If she is worth it, you'll figure out a way to stand.
In my experience it has taken over 17 months just to
slow down W's exit.
Figure out what you want to do. Make a decision, set your boundaries, and then you'll know what to do from there.
It is all up to you. Many LBS don't realize that, but it is. You can stand as long as you want. The choice is yours.
My WW said we were definitely "done", no way she could see us together or herself having any romantic random feelings for me ever again, and she, too, was trying to figure out the best way to tell the kids.
Took me 15 months from BD and 17 months from start of affair to get to true piecing. It ain't over till its over
Thanks everyone really appreciate your support. At the moment everyday is tough. But today it went into hyper drive.
Hoosjim did you tell the kids, what happened in your sitch?
It's a rollercoaster from h3ll. We feel you BV. 4-5 months in and the rollercoaster still gets me. You'll feel at times detached, numb or over it then you get hit all over again. Writing it out here, talking to a counselor, or with someone else in a similar sitch helps a little. Like getting alcohol out of the body, time heals best.
What put today in to hyper drive?
Well we ended up going to the MC (please don't tell me off I now we shouldn't have done) emotions ran high and it was just not good. But we had a coffee after and had a normal(ish) chat about the situation and etc. I sent that last message before we sat down for the coffee and your words of support really have helped.
I have managed to get some perspective on what she means by it all going to slow.....I moved into the spare room and then we hadn't had any discussions about anything else so I get that.
Us both living in the house is not giving us either of us space. Moving back into the MBR at the moment will make matter worse. I stayed at a friends house last night and just going to take each day has it come. This is not a permanent thing it may be that she stays in a hotel or something but at this stage, I just don't know.
I need to start (as everyone has said) thinking of myself, GAL and continue my self-improvement, I purchased No More Mr Nice Guy which I am working through and think it will help me regardless of the outcome.
Too be clear I have NOT given up and any conversations going forward will just be practical stuff mostly about the kids.
I just need to get the DBing done from the position as always any help or advice is greatly appreciated.
Well we ended up going to the MC (please don't tell me off I now we shouldn't have done) emotions ran high and it was just not good. But we had a coffee after and had a normal(ish) chat about the situation and etc. I sent that last message before we sat down for the coffee and your words of support really have helped.
I have managed to get some perspective on what she means by it all going to slow.....I moved into the spare room and then we hadn't had any discussions about anything else so I get that.
Us both living in the house is not giving us either of us space. Moving back into the MBR at the moment will make matter worse. I stayed at a friends house last night and just going to take each day has it come. This is not a permanent thing it may be that she stays in a hotel or something but at this stage, I just don't know.
I need to start (as everyone has said) thinking of myself, GAL and continue my self-improvement, I purchased No More Mr Nice Guy which I am working through and think it will help me regardless of the outcome.
Too be clear I have NOT given up and any conversations going forward will just be practical stuff mostly about the kids.
I just need to get the DBing done from the position as always any help or advice is greatly appreciated.
Bud, I will reiterate. Not taking back the MBR (I wouldn't worry about space as she will likely move to the spare bedroom), not staying in the house, going to MC.....this is all the normal path that leads most LBSs to D. So if you do not take the advice to stay in the house (meaning do not spend nights elsewhere), take back the MBR, or to tell her "MC is useless at this point.", then take this advice: call a good D attorney. You will need it.
Moving back into the MBR at the moment will make matter worse..
How? Your wife is telling you she wants to divorce you. How can things get worse? You have multiple people telling you to stay in the house, take back the MBR, and avoid MC. Yet, you still choose to do these things. You say you haven't given up yet, but your actions are saying differently. By not doing these things, you're basically laying down and being a doormat for her to wipe her feet on as she's walking out the door. Stop worrying about what she will do. Stop being scared of her. If you want any chance at saving your marriage, you need to really start DB'ing. It's more than just reading a book and thinking it has good ideas. Db'ing is taking the actions, no matter how counter intuitive they may seem, and turning the situation around to save your marriage. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE, BUD!...
Bud listen to the advice. I didn’t listen because of fear. I didn’t want to upset her, I thought by staying in the basement she would see I was trying to make her happy. It doesn’t work like that. I was told numerous times to take it back and I kept saying I didn’t want to rock the boat or make her angry. You know what happens they lose respect. You are the king of your castle take back the MBR. I didn’t and still got d. The WW will just keep taking it you let them. I just kept giving in to what she wanted hoping to make her happy. It just makes them feel more entitled. Take it back. She will yell and scream call you names, but if you want to have a chance start there. I wish I would have listened but fear was running my life.
Please explain to us how not standing up for yourself and your core values make things worse?
Bud, I have two cases in my own world, IRL, to draw from. Mine, and my best friend's. Our respective Ws were best friends since college, and both went down the WW path together. My friend appeased his WW, let her walk all over him, stayed in the house but gave up the MBR, all but gave her a license to continue cheating on him under their roof. You know vwhat I did...and the good folks in this forum are advising you to do the same. My case reconciled. My friend's did not.
Do what works.