Around this time 8 years ago my wife separated from me. At that time we had been married for 10years and I got the ILYBINILWY speech. We had three children then, I moved out of the house and was staying with family. I found this website and purchased the DB book and tried my best to the it. Months went by and after finally dropping the rope and GAL my wife began reaching out to me and we eventually reconciled.
Since then we had a fourth child and purchased a new home. On NYE I got the bomb dropped on me again but this time I knew it was coming and did nothing to stop it. For the past year we have been living as roommates, no fighting but no emotional connection either. She told me she wasn’t happy, that things were back to the way there were 8 years ago and all I did was make promises that I did not fulfill and did nothing to make myself a better person or husband.
I knew I wasn’t happy this last year and I told her many times that I wanted more in our relationship but I never put in the work myself. So I’m back to where I was 8 years ago, this time still in the house. I did ALL the mistakes again the first few days. Cried, begged, pleaded, etc. We told our kids we are separating and that W was gonna go stay at her parents for awhile. Right after that she spoke to her parents for the first time about the relationship and they convinced her to stay in the house. So I sleep on the couch and she has the bedroom. I’m struggling very bad, I can’t eat, I can’t sleep and I can’t believe I’m back here again. I’m trying to give her space in the house, being pleasant with her, not calling or texting her during the day but I can’t get the knot out of my stomach. I’ve done this the right way once before and here I sit failing again.
Hank
H(41) W(42) M(18)
D(16) D(13) S(11) D(7)
So you've been here before. but you cried, begged and pleaded. AND gave up your bed to her.
I think it is obvious why you are back here. You learned nothing the first time around.
You say: "I knew I wasn’t happy this last year and I told her many times that I wanted more in our relationship but I never put in the work myself."
What was your marriage like leading up to BD 8 years ago?
Mr. Scorpion, (love the name BTW)
I think many LBS fall in to the same trap (few return here though) Because the changes stop being made after the reconciliation is "complete" and people get lazy and complacent.
it happens.
Hank,
I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome posting. Please read all of the homework links. They might help you along your journey.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D33,S32
Here is Hank's previous thread:
I want W to Cha-Cha Choose me
I just think you need to decide whether you are going to commit to these changes. Do you think they are necessary?
If you decide not to change will this problem be a recurring one in all future relationships?
Until you decide and commit one way or the other it's hard to say what you should be doing.
8 years ago it was tons of fighting and yelling and screaming. This time around she says she is checked out. You are correct. I learned nothing last time. I got what I wanted and stopped.
As I said this past year was difficult but these last 4 months were the worst. Even though she had told me she is done, in December we did stuff with just the two of us and as a family. Most were enjoying but then I would press the R and she would shut down. I was drinking way to much as well and it did not help. I’m 6 days without a drink now, longest oven been in years.
I agree. That is what I keep focusing on, making myself better for me and the kids. I needed a wake up call in my life and I got it. I want to be a better all around even if I lose my spouse.
8 years ago it was tons of fighting and yelling and screaming. This time around she says she is checked out. You are correct. I learned nothing last time. I got what I wanted and stopped.
As I said this past year was difficult but these last 4 months were the worst. Even though she had told me she is done, in December we did stuff with just the two of us and as a family. Most were enjoying but then I would press the R and she would shut down. I was drinking way to much as well and it did not help. I’m 6 days without a drink now, longest oven been in years.
As another poster said, it is a common problem with LBSs. I too am guilty as charged. Went through my first sitch in 2005. Changed to get her back. Then did a slow burn back to the same poor behavior setting up BD#2 in Dec. 2017.
Learn from not learning, and learn this time. DBing is about saving yourself. Without doing that you will never have long-term success in a MR.
I agree. That is what I keep focusing on, making myself better for me and the kids. I needed a wake up call in my life and I got it. I want to be a better all around even if I lose my spouse.
BINGO! Welcome back Hank. Keep posting, we are here to help and support.
Hank,
Don't press for relationship talks right now. She's not going to want to listen and let's face it, she may think that whatever changes you make this time around won't stick, i.e., just like the last time. The changes you make MUST become permanent and you cannot slip back into the old ways. The old marriage died and now, in order for things to work out, if she opts to try again, it will be a new marriage.
Congratulations on the 6 days of not drinking. Are you in AA? Do you have a sponsor or are you attempting to do this on your own? What other changes do you think that you need to make...take a look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself that question and jot down your responses. If you have a few changes that need to be made, then start working on them. Don't tell her about them, let her see that the changes are taking place and that they are going to be a part of your day-to-day life permanently.
If you love this woman and truly want her back, you've got a lot of hard work to do on yourself and to prove yourself to her before she will trust you again. Don't be discouraged....you can do this if you put your mind to it. You did it years ago and you can do it again. Dig deeper for patience and keep the focus on you.
Thank you very much.
Last few days have been hard. Not sleeping well on the couch but putting on positive face when around her. Giving her space inside the home and DBing when I get a chance with her and the kids. Have not brought up R talks since Saturday night. We went to church together Saturday night and as a family Sunday. She made it clear Saturday that her mind is not changed.
She sent me a text message yesterday asking if I was ok. This was the first time I was alone in the house due to everyone going back to work or school. Replied that I was doing fine and thanked her for the text.
I’ve already lost some weight so I’ve been dressing in better fitting clothes and keeping my appearance up.
Hi Hank,
Since you have been here before, I will not sugar coat anything.
So I sleep on the couch and she has the bedroom.
Get back in the MBR. No more sleeping on the couch.
I’m struggling very bad, I can’t eat, I can’t sleep
Go see doc about meds. Tell him what is going on. Best thing I did when I went through my sitch back in 2010.
and I can’t believe I’m back here again. I’m trying to give her space in the house, being pleasant with her, not calling or texting her during the day but I can’t get the knot out of my stomach. I’ve done this the right way once before and here I sit failing again.
Get out of your head. Make goals and start working toward them. Daily, weekly, monthly.
Get out and exercise. Go for walks/runs.
Get busy doing things. GAL like a madman. Be the best dad ever.
I see you had Starsky309 (puppydogtails) giving you advise in the past. He no longer posts here, but he is one of the best DBers we had. Jack3Beans posted to you as well. He was very wise. Go back and read their advise to you.
Read every quote in these 9 threads:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2870386I wish you well.
No AA, just doing it myself. I do see a psychiatrist and psychologist regularly and have one appointment on Thursday. She asked this morning when my next appointment was.
She is pleasant and nice to me around kids and distant when it is just us. I try not to initiate the conversations but struggle with that.
Thank you.
How would you recommend that I tell her I’m sleeping back in the bed? She stated that she didn’t want to confuse the kids with us still in the same bed and had offered to sleep on the couch herself. Should I let her do that and start sleeping in the bed?
Thank you.
How would you recommend that I tell her I’m sleeping back in the bed? She stated that she didn’t want to confuse the kids with us still in the same bed and had offered to sleep on the couch herself. Should I let her do that and start sleeping in the bed?
Yes.
You just do it. If(When) she asks:
W"What are you doing???"
H"I decided I like it here better"
Then listen and validate her FEELINGS.
W"Bla bla bla bla"
H"I am sorry you feel that way"
or
W"Bla bla bla bla"
H"I can see why that would make you angry"
Read the validation thread many times. Another Stander is the validation king.
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2870386
Thank you.
How would you recommend that I tell her I’m sleeping back in the bed? She stated that she didn’t want to confuse the kids with us still in the same bed and had offered to sleep on the couch herself. Should I let her do that and start sleeping in the bed?
You don't say anything. Tonight, get ready and get into bed. When she protests you say "I've decided that I like sleeping here."
She'll either decide to share the bed again, or she will go sleep on the couch. It matters not to you.
....How would you recommend that I tell her ....
Now is a time for VERY few words and taking action.
Most poster talk way too much. STFU and listen. STFU and validate how she feels. STFU and observe. Do not share how you feel or what you need or what you want or how you see the future.
H"I am not sure"
H"I need time to think about that"
H"I will let you know when I decide"
H"I have not thought about that"
Deflect as much as you can.
She has lost respect for you. A woman is not attracted to a man who she does not respect. Taking back the MBR gains you some respect.
You have two goals right now. One goal is to be confident that you will be OK no matter how this turns out. The other is to gain respect.
....How would you recommend that I tell her ....
Now is a time for VERY few words and taking action.
Most poster talk way too much. STFU and listen. STFU and validate how she feels. STFU and observe. Do not share how you feel or what you need or what you want or how you see the future.
H"I am not sure"
H"I need time to think about that"
H"I will let you know when I decide"
H"I have not thought about that"
Deflect as much as you can.
This...I am a firm believer that most LBS's talk (and act) their way right out of what, if anything, is left of their MR.
Ok. I will get back in the bed tonight
Ok. I will get back in the bed tonight
She'll be angry. She may yell and curse. But she will respect you.
Is it crazy to have thoughts that we reconciled once so it cannot happen again?
Is it crazy to have thoughts that we reconciled once so it cannot happen again?
Not crazy. But certainly not true.
In fact, the fact you reconciled once tells me that it is possible again.
Ok. I will get back in the bed tonight
Read this thread:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2871273(Sitch is not the same. He found out there was OM. Just read to understand how to stay calm)
Will do. Have kids home from school now. W will be home soon. Making dinner for family as I usually do and then I have to coach my son at BB practice tonight. Will update late. Thank you all for the advice and words.
I honestly don’t think she will be angry. She planned to go stay at her parents after telling the kids but her parents told her to stay put. She said she doesn’t want to send kids mixed messages, that is why I took the coach. I just expect her to take the coach tonight.
OMG. She won't respect you. Nope. She would have respected a man who kept his promises.
Ouch, it hurts to hear but it is true.
Hank,
I don't want to beat up on you, but many of these guys don't seem to have a good idea on respect in a marriage. The bedroom thing is not going to move the needle for most spouses who are ready to quit. It's just not, but it gets a lot of focus on here. I really don't know why.
There are other ways to invest your time and energy. I will post my story soon, but I will say that I am the one that dropped the bomb in my marriage because I was tired of my spouse not willing to do an ounce of work. By the time it happened, the bedroom thing was so minor.
W came home and spent time to herself. I made dinner and spent time with the kids.
Nice dinner with the family. Few pleasantries between W and me.
When you slide into the MBR this evening, just do it. If she questions why you are doing it, be honest and tell her that the bed is just as much your as it is hers. If she's not happy, she'll take herself out to the couch and just leave her there. If she starts an argument, do not get into it w/her. If she's angry, she's going to bait you into an argument. Remember...you have kids in the house that can hear everything that goes on. Just get in the bed, turn the light out and let her fume. Trust me...she'll get over it in time or she'll be sleeping on that couch for many days ahead.
Like I said she wanted a separate sleeping place because she didn’t want to send confused signals to kids. What should I say if she brings that up?
I would say "you have three choices, the MBR bed, the couch or sleep w/one of the kids. I have made my choice and I'm sleeping in the MBR tonight."
Got home from BB practice. Have to take another kid to and from practice later. Read the youngest a story and put her to bed. W asked how practice was, this was first initiated conversation by her about me that did not happen in front of kids.
Pretty nervous about going back the MBR tonight.
Got into bed.
W: I don’t mind sleeping downstairs tonight
Me: I can appreciate your feelings on this but the bed is where I believe I belong. So I’m going to sleep in it.
W: Ok, that’s fine
She is sleeping on the couch downstairs.
Less words always has more impact.
W: "I don’t mind sleeping downstairs tonight"
H:"Perfect"
or
H:"I understand"
Always be prepared for the worst case scenario. That makes dealing with everything else easy.
I think the worse case is she takes the kids and leaves. The next is she tells you she is leaving with the kids.
Seek legal advise ASAP.
With that said, tomorrow, I would go buy at a minimum a manly comforter for the bed. New sheets would be nice. It is now your room. A picture of a motorcycle (or other manly thing) would be a great touch. If you would like the bed in another location, put it there. Get the idea?
ONLY SAY THIS IF ASKED:
"I decided this would be better"
If she joins you in there to sleep, great. If not, great. That is the your attitude.
Got into bed.
W: I don’t mind sleeping downstairs tonight
Me: I can appreciate your feelings on this but the bed is where I believe I belong. So I’m going to sleep in it.
W: Ok, that’s fine
She is sleeping on the couch downstairs.
Hank, let me ask you a question. Do you think what you did tonight commands respect? Or do you think sleeping on the couch does? I'm not one to directly disagree with another poster 's advice, but a man giving up his bed is about the most beta thing you can do. Heck, it's not even beta, it's Omega. So if you are getting similar advice from a lot of the vets here, I'd heed it. There will always be desenters. Some do it because they really believe it. Some just like to troll because, I don't know, they have nothing better to do.
This evening you commanded respect. It was a baby step towards regaining her attraction.
Hank,
I am the LBS, since the BD I have had the MBR to myself while he either sleeps in our vacated D’s Room or the couch when she was home. As much as I would like him back in the MBR, he needs to come in on his own. I did not ask for this BD. Neither did you. We deserve to sleep in our beds. Our BD spouses have chosen to bomb the marriage so they can sleep in the rubble. I have never asked him to leave the room nor have I asked him back. This is his issue. I am GAL and I can only hope we work towards a reconciliation.
Hang in there. We got this.
One of the books I read spoke of love and respect. Paraphrasing here, but It is the mans job to love his woman. It is the woman's job to respect her man. Kinda Yin/Yang thing. Respect her, but love her more.
You are in triage. No one thing is going to turn this around. The one thing that has the best chance is taking a hard look at yourself. Decided what you want to change, then change. You do not do this to manipulate your wife into "coming back". You do it because it is the right thing to do.
We have no idea who you are or what has went on between you and your W. There are just repeating patterns of behavior that many of us have lived or observed.
Change your behavior and the way you interact with your W changes the relationship. That still does not mean she will stay married to you. But every little thing you do to make those interactions in alignment with your core values will make you feel better.
Ultimately, this is about you and how you want to live your life. I agree that the MBR is just a tiny drop in this. Do you want out of the marriage? If the answer is no, then you stand for it. If the answer is yes, then the next question is do you want to stay in the house? If the answer is yes, you stay. If the answer is no, then you have to decide if you want to be an active parent. If the answer is yes, you need to come to an agreement with your W. If the answer is no, then find a new place to live. I can keep going but I hope you understand. Same goes for your W. She has to make all of these decisions. She does not need you asking these questions. That is pressure. Love her enough to set her free if she makes these choices.
Forgiveness is critically important through this process. Forgive yourself. Forgive her. Forgive yourself some more. Do this daily if needed.
Thank you guys. It did feel good and I slept the best I had since the bomb. Not perfect sleep but better sleep.
The last day we had R talks was on Saturday. I was still doing the wrong things then but she stated that she was doing the D for the both of us. She had asked me a few weeks ago if the R was a factor in my depression and since it is I answered truthfully. She stated she has been emotionally checked out for months but she did try and connect in December by her words with a small touch at a party and asking to sit next to me at another. I failed to recognize both of these actions.
Since we told the kids I can’t imagine that she will just continue like this for much longer. It’s not in her nature. I’m trying to mentally prepare myself for the next R talk and action to move things along by her.
Hank,
I am the LBS, since the BD I have had the MBR to myself while he either sleeps in our vacated D’s Room or the couch when she was home. As much as I would like him back in the MBR, he needs to come in on his own. I did not ask for this BD. Neither did you. We deserve to sleep in our beds. Our BD spouses have chosen to bomb the marriage so they can sleep in the rubble. I have never asked him to leave the room nor have I asked him back. This is his issue. I am GAL and I can only hope we work towards a reconciliation.
Hang in there. We got this.
First, I disagree with the statement, "we did not ask for this BD." If you read what Hack wrote, he freely admitted that he didn't do the work necessary. Yes, he didn't specifically say the words "I want a divorce," but he saw it coming and did not do enough until his spouse had it.
I haven't read your situation, so I'm not going to say that yours is the same. But this idea that a woman wants a divorce when the marriage is 100% perfect is uncommon.
Now people insisted that Hank's wife was going to scream and be mad. Guess what - she wasn't. If she didn't care, why do you think she would give him respect for it? In my situation, if my spouse demanded the bedroom, I'd probably laugh at him. Maybe it's because I respect him so much.
Many LBS, not all, had caused a lot of damage in their marriage by how they treated the spouse before that spouse told them they wanted out. They ignored the spouse, the refused intimacy with the spouse; they were mean to the spouse; they didn't take care of the family, home, their job, or themselves. They took the marriage and the spouse for granted. Some LBS were even given explicit warnings about the marriage, and they ignored them.
You think, after that, an LBS asserting his right to sleep in the bedroom is suddenly going to cause the spouse to say, "Gee, I respect what he did by taking the bedroom?"
People are twisting what I said. I said that it probably won't move the needle. It's possible, but in the grand scheme of things it such a small gesture. It can provide the LBS with some amount of personal respect, some small amount of dignity because it allows them to take one bit of control in a situation where they think they have no control. They actually do have a lot of control.
Now Hank is both early in his situation but has been here before. So he knows that he can get things back on track. He just needs to do the hard work. and it is hard.
Hank,
I am the LBS, since the BD I have had the MBR to myself while he either sleeps in our vacated D’s Room or the couch when she was home. As much as I would like him back in the MBR, he needs to come in on his own. I did not ask for this BD. Neither did you. We deserve to sleep in our beds. Our BD spouses have chosen to bomb the marriage so they can sleep in the rubble. I have never asked him to leave the room nor have I asked him back. This is his issue. I am GAL and I can only hope we work towards a reconciliation.
Hang in there. We got this.
First, I disagree with the statement, "we did not ask for this BD." If you read what Hack wrote, he freely admitted that he didn't do the work necessary. Yes, he didn't specifically say the words "I want a divorce," but he saw it coming and did not do enough until his spouse had it.
I haven't read your situation, so I'm not going to say that yours is the same. But this idea that a woman wants a divorce when the marriage is 100% perfect is uncommon.
Now people insisted that Hank's wife was going to scream and be mad. Guess what - she wasn't. If she didn't care, why do you think she would give him respect for it? In my situation, if my spouse demanded the bedroom, I'd probably laugh at him. Maybe it's because I respect him so much.
Many LBS, not all, had caused a lot of damage in their marriage by how they treated the spouse before that spouse told them they wanted out. They ignored the spouse, the refused intimacy with the spouse; they were mean to the spouse; they didn't take care of the family, home, their job, or themselves. They took the marriage and the spouse for granted. Some LBS were even given explicit warnings about the marriage, and they ignored them.
You think, after that, an LBS asserting his right to sleep in the bedroom is suddenly going to cause the spouse to say, "Gee, I respect what he did by taking the bedroom?"
People are twisting what I said. I said that it probably won't move the needle. It's possible, but in the grand scheme of things it such a small gesture. It can provide the LBS with some amount of personal respect, some small amount of dignity because it allows them to take one bit of control in a situation where they think they have no control. They actually do have a lot of control.
Now Hank is both early in his situation but has been here before. So he knows that he can get things back on track. He just needs to do the hard work. and it is hard.
Pretty long post. How is the post on your sitch coming along?
Spoused2,
Yes, I didn’t ask for the BD. I saw signs and not knowing I was dealing with MLC, did not know how to right the train in the tracks. I tried as best I could to fix what I thought I could fix.
So yes, I didn’t ask for the BD. I just didn’t know what I could do to stop it. I now deal with a H who lives in the “living room” it is hard, as I assume your sitch is.
Hank deserves to sleep in his MBR. He may have not followed the repeated pattern to try to stop what was happening, but he’s trying now. It will be his wife’s choice on what happens next. He can at least stay in his bed.
Best of luck to all of us
Hank,
I am the LBS, since the BD I have had the MBR to myself while he either sleeps in our vacated D’s Room or the couch when she was home. As much as I would like him back in the MBR, he needs to come in on his own. I did not ask for this BD. Neither did you. We deserve to sleep in our beds. Our BD spouses have chosen to bomb the marriage so they can sleep in the rubble. I have never asked him to leave the room nor have I asked him back. This is his issue. I am GAL and I can only hope we work towards a reconciliation.
Hang in there. We got this.
First, I disagree with the statement, "we did not ask for this BD." If you read what Hack wrote, he freely admitted that he didn't do the work necessary. Yes, he didn't specifically say the words "I want a divorce," but he saw it coming and did not do enough until his spouse had it.
I haven't read your situation, so I'm not going to say that yours is the same. But this idea that a woman wants a divorce when the marriage is 100% perfect is uncommon.
Now people insisted that Hank's wife was going to scream and be mad. Guess what - she wasn't. If she didn't care, why do you think she would give him respect for it? In my situation, if my spouse demanded the bedroom, I'd probably laugh at him. Maybe it's because I respect him so much.
Many LBS, not all, had caused a lot of damage in their marriage by how they treated the spouse before that spouse told them they wanted out. They ignored the spouse, the refused intimacy with the spouse; they were mean to the spouse; they didn't take care of the family, home, their job, or themselves. They took the marriage and the spouse for granted. Some LBS were even given explicit warnings about the marriage, and they ignored them.
You think, after that, an LBS asserting his right to sleep in the bedroom is suddenly going to cause the spouse to say, "Gee, I respect what he did by taking the bedroom?"
People are twisting what I said. I said that it probably won't move the needle. It's possible, but in the grand scheme of things it such a small gesture. It can provide the LBS with some amount of personal respect, some small amount of dignity because it allows them to take one bit of control in a situation where they think they have no control. They actually do have a lot of control.
Now Hank is both early in his situation but has been here before. So he knows that he can get things back on track. He just needs to do the hard work. and it is hard.
I want to say thank your for your perspective. I do think we (DB'ers, LBS's) forget a lot of this. It's understandable as the LBS's are in such pain usually.
Your statement is a reminder that the LBS needs to focus on himself or herself. The things you posted are things that are within the control of each of us moving forward. Your statements also reminded me of something BluWave posted a while back stating that most wayward spouses are walkaways first. They're walking because of some bad behaviors that are pushing them away.
I agree that jumping back into the MBR is not going to move the needle much, because as the OP stated, there is clearly lots of other things that caused all this resentment. I also see it as a mental hurdle that for most men gets them to a better place, but doesn't change a whole lot in the woman's eyes at this point. So I'm unconcerned with it mostly.
Hank, hopefully you have thought about my earlier post to you. You need to come to grips with how serious you are about these changes, are they necessary, are you committed... Be frank with yourself. Taking the MBR will make you feel better, but for her it will require a great deal of patience and commitment.
Pretty long post. How is the post on your sitch coming along?
Once I'm off moderation. I will post.
I want to say thank your for your perspective. I do think we (DB'ers, LBS's) forget a lot of this. It's understandable as the LBS's are in such pain usually.
Your statement is a reminder that the LBS needs to focus on himself or herself. The things you posted are things that are within the control of each of us moving forward. Your statements also reminded me of something BluWave posted a while back stating that most wayward spouses are walkaways first. They're walking because of some bad behaviors that are pushing them away.
I agree that jumping back into the MBR is not going to move the needle much, because as the OP stated, there is clearly lots of other things that caused all this resentment. I also see it as a mental hurdle that for most men gets them to a better place, but doesn't change a whole lot in the woman's eyes at this point. So I'm unconcerned with it mostly.
Hank, hopefully you have thought about my earlier post to you. You need to come to grips with how serious you are about these changes, are they necessary, are you committed... Be frank with yourself. Taking the MBR will make you feel better, but for her it will require a great deal of patience and commitment.
Exactly. You know what starts to win respect from your spouse? Owning your stuff and being committed to work on it. And you can't work on your stuff with the idea that you want to win your spouse back. Because if you do get a second chance, there is the possibility the work will stop. You work on your stuff to be a better person, parent, etc. The attitude should be I want to work on XX because I don't want to be that type of person anymore. Not, I want to work on XX because my spouse told me that was a complaint in the marriage.
I have given myself a hard look and I don’t want to be the person I have become. I want these changes to be permanent for my children, so they have a more loving father.
This morning was tense. She was very short with me and seemed to have little patiences with some of the kids.
I have a physiologist appointment tomorrow morning, the first since the R talk, but he knows our situation well. W will ask about the appointment, I usually give her insight as to how they go. Should I continue this or just keep it brief?
You know what starts to win respect from your spouse? Owning your stuff and being committed to work on it. And you can't work on your stuff with the idea that you want to win your spouse back...You work on your stuff to be a better person, parent, etc. The attitude should be I want to work on XX because I don't want to be that type of person anymore. Not, I want to work on XX because my spouse told me that was a complaint in the marriage.
These are wise words.
Hank,
Each of us makes about 32,000 decisions a day. We decide when to wake up, when to get out of bed, should we make the bed, should I shave, should I shower, what shampoo should I use, what clothes the wear..etc
Make choices that align with this(I crossed out one item that you should now do while the R is at this stage):
Confidence by and far is the key in being attractive to women. . Women want to feel safe. A man that is confident projects that magnetism. A confident man is busy taking care of his home, career, body, cars, spirit, finances, mind and kids. When a woman sees her man handling his business and taking care of things it's attractive. Women nag when things aren't being taken care of, it's her way of letting you know what is on her mind. The problem is if you are a "nice guy" or pleaser you don't want to burden your wife with your problems because it might upset her. This makes her feel unsettled (not safe) because you are not being honest with her and you are avoiding her feelings. How can she feel safe if you can't stand up to her feelings?
One thing that was a huge 180 for me was how I reacted to my wife's worrying. I used to try and fix it, explain to her why she shouldn't feel that way and then tell her what I would do. (Women do you understand why men have this desire to fix things for you?) So the solution now is to really listen to her, try to understand her POV and then ask a probing open-ended question: "How can I help/support you with that?" It was eye-opening to me to find out alot of times that I wasn't expected to do anything except listen.
How to build confidence- get busy, take action, do something and talk about it.
Physical- strength training (it works wonders on the young men I coach), look good, dress like a man, walk tall, join a team
Mental- keep learning, read, take a class
Emotional - love yourself, know yourself, accept yourself, forgive yourself, let go of fear, be a good partner, become intimate
Spiritual - understand your light and dark sides, challenge your view of God, embrace quiet, pray, be grateful
What else is attractive? Make goals and plans then share them with your spouse (intomesee). Have a sense of humor and know when to use it. Build excitement into your life. Don't be to predictable. Be responsible for yourself. You define your legacy.
When you become responsible for yourself you have the confidence to "set them free." Your happiness and your life is all about you handling it the best for you. When you let someone else dictate how your life will be run then you are a victim and that isn't attractive. The DB techniques are all about doing healthy things for yourself. You are in control of your thoughts, feelings and actions. So when your world is collapsing around you, how attractive is it to be in control and moving forward? That's the calm, assertive energy you want to give off. It's powerful.
You can handle it. Strength and Honor.
This morning was tense. She was very short with me and seemed to have little patience with some of the kids.
Parenting is hard work. Are you both putting in equal effort? Are you both on the same page as far as parenting styles? Do you step in and help without being asked? This is one of those love and respect things. Your job as the father is to step in and take care of parenting things without her asking.
W will ask about the appointment, I usually give her insight as to how they go. Should I continue this or just keep it brief?
IF she ask, give her the main bullet points. End the convo first. Go be productive around the house.
Ok.
Parenting styles is defiantly a huge factor in the R. It is what caused the problems 8 years ago.
Since the bomb I have been patient with the kids and loving them every chance I can get. This morning I stepped in once and helped a situation and a second time asked if she wanted help, she said sure and I helped the best I could. She has mentioned that at times she doesn’t want my help, she is taking care of it and I come in and make things worse. Other times she’s frustrated and wants my help without asking.
I’m glad I got to help this morning and last night with the youngest. It made me feel closer to her.
I went to mass at my kids school this morning.
Two things:
1) She did not react emotionally. This will make it harder. Her reacting emotionally is good. If she becomes angry sometime in the future, your job is to be calm no matter how emotional she becomes. You are strong enough to handle her emotions.
2) She said "tonight". Again, be prepared for her to want you to move out of MBR.
W:"Lets alternate bla bla bla."
H"You are free to sleep where ever you want. I am sleeping in MY bed" Firm but kind.
W:"Bla bla bla"
Listen and validate her feelings. "That must be frustrating for you" etc
Two things:
1) She did not react emotionally. This will make it harder. Her reacting emotionally is good. If she becomes angry sometime in the future, your job is to be calm no matter how emotional she becomes. You are strong enough to handle her emotions.
2) She said "tonight". Again, be prepared for her to want you to move out of MBR.
W:"Lets alternate bla bla bla."
H"You are free to sleep where ever you want. I am sleeping in MY bed" Firm but kind.
W:"Bla bla bla"
Listen and validate her feelings. "That must be frustrating for you" etc
Great advice as always R2C.
For other reading this, we do not advocate this to be macho. Or to be MRAs. We advocate this because the LBS (regardless of gender) is not the one blowing up the marriage and therefore should not leave the MBR.
We just paid bills and she is very jaded. I racked up some medical debt a few months ago and she is not happy about it. I’ve messed up by trying to make small talk with her. She is not receptive.
She shows no love, no happiness outside of the kids. She had already told me she doesn’t love me with her words. She is now showing me with her actions. It hurts so bad.
We just paid bills and she is very jaded. I racked up some medical debt a few months ago and she is not happy about it. I’ve messed up by trying to make small talk with her. She is not receptive.
She shows no love, no happiness outside of the kids. She had already told me she doesn’t love me with her words. She is now showing me with her actions. It hurts so bad.
Yep, I was in the same boat. My W was as cold as a freezer in the Arctic. Remember, marathon, not a sprint. You can't fix in days or weeks what took months and years to get into. Patience is the key ingredient here. You have to be patient. Just with the process. Trust it. This forum had helped dozens of LBSs through this stuff. Listen to the vets. Enact their advice.
Also, stop focusing on her. Focus on you.
Hank,
They can be as cold as ice and it's their way of letting us know not to come any closer and that they are done. Here's the deal, you can't fix her, but you can fix yourself. Focus on you and your children...okay?
I'm going out on a limb and give you this wee bit of advice, if you find something isn't working, try something different. For example, if she's not interested in small talk, so keep your talks about the children and finances and anything of an emergency nature. When she discovers that you are giving her that almighty space and time she needs, trust me, she will eventually talk to you, but it may be in spurts for a bit. If, and when, she does talk to you, listen...but don't be too quick in attempting to drum up conversations because she may very well go right back into deep freeze again. Follow her lead on the talks for a bit.
Trust the system...it truly works. DB is not just for saving your marriage, but it is also a way to help you save yourself and become the man or woman that the posters should be. It helps you rediscover the person you once were and helps you find a way to become that person who is happy within himself/herself. Posters learn new ways to communicate and interact w/others. It can also be used in your day-to day life each and every day.
Stay positive, breathe and try to remember...Rome wasn't built in a day and what has happened over the years cannot be fixed in a few short days. Think marathon, not sprint.
Keep the focus on you and your kids.
You don’t know how much I appreciate the support. I’m trying to give her space and focus on myself and the kids. Last time I wasn’t in the house so it was all in my head. Now with both of us in the same house it is so hard not to reach out to her. I will keep at it.
One daughter asked if family wanted to play board game. We all said yes except W but she played. This was a perfect opportunity to show off a 180. Most times when we play board games the kids become tense, emotions run high and people get angry. We apparently take our board gaming seriously. More often than not I would lose my temper because of the fighting and it would all go down hill.
This time I stood tall and even though some kids were getting upset I encouraged them all to have fun and ended the game with a smile on my face. I liked that I did that.
Nice job today. Keep up the good work. Keep that focus on you and your kids. Continue to work on YOU!
After I got home from BB practice, I sat at the table and small talk ensued followed by R talk. I tried my best to shut my mouth and just listen and validate. Ton was said by her.
I have a habit of not sleeping in the bed for years. She stated she was mad as hell last night when I got back in the MBR cause why haven’t I cared before and now all of sudden I do. Listened to her, validated her feelings.
She stated that it’s been hard for her not to notice how I have been because it so different, it’s so not me. Listened to her, validated her feelings.
Why now she asks, why not 8 years ago, a year ago, a month ago. I’ve said I was done for the last year, why are just hearing me now? I listened to her, I validated her feelings.
Tired, going to bed. Post more tomorrow.
Pretty typical by the script WAS there. Most of us hear the "too little too late" speech at some point post BD. Just keep it up.
Hi Hank,
The convo is a good sign.
Keep your focus on permanent, positive changes to your behavior.
During the times when you interact with her, focus hard on listening to her. Understanding her. Listen to understand her story. It is her story.
Most likely she will cycle though phases of anger. Let her express her anger. Handle it. Be her rock. This will be the biggest test of your life. Pass the test.
As far as answering questions, very little words.
W:Why now??"
H:"I decided I don't want to be like that anymore"
Or "Because I needed to change for me."
Will do.
Good morning all around. Very little sleep last night, would normally be grumpy and have short fuse. Pushed through the tiredness, focused on kids having good morning. Kids were happy, made me happy. W was in better mood than yesterday. Morning still would have good without her mood but added bonus.
Psychologist appoint went good. He validated working myself, and kids. Changes are for better Hank right now. Will continue to focus on that.
I suggest weightlifting, running, sports leagues, hot yoga, hiking, etc to really focus your mind on something. It will also tire your body and help you sleep and feel better.
I start in basketball league this coming weekend.
I found that the concentration going to gun range requires was a life-saver. GAL was at least a weekly trip to the gun range.
Thank you Job for asking. I’ve tried posting the last few days but I have been so exhausted it’s been hard to put a thought together.
After the R talk on Wednesday night, W was in a great mood on Thursday and this morning. Starting small talk when kids around and when not. Asking how appointment went, etc.
When I got home from my appointment yesterday I noticed W had left item she needs for work at home, I took it to her work and dropped it off with another employee. W called after work to thank me.
I got a message from her today showing me that she was using a Christmas gift I got her, at work.
Things have been good with the kids and I, I have been attentive to them and am looking forward to the weekend.
I have been so tired these last few days and it started to show in my patience last night while putting youngest to bed. I tried to me aware of what I was doing and correct myself but I also know I’m not perfect and tell myself that I will make mistakes.
Hank,
You are only human and we all make mistakes. The lessons learned from those mistakes will help us to be better people in the long run.
I'm glad things are a wee bit better in the communication arena between you and your wife.
Keep up the good work.
Hi Hank,
What new behaviors do you want to "practice" this weekend?
Hi Hank,
What new behaviors do you want to "practice" this weekend?
Weekends are usually pretty busy with kids activities and then when we are back home I tend to let the kids veg out in front of tv or video games. I would sleep or do my own thing, so this weekend I want to have the family spend more time doing things together. Be it all together or just the kids I want some quality family time. During those time it will give me a chance to practice patience with the kids and if I have to correct them, to do it in more loving manor and explain why I am doing it.
I also want to continue having the family attended mass.
I would also love to get a good nights rest.
During those time it will give me a chance to practice patience with the kids and if I have to correct them, to do it in more loving manor and explain why I am doing it.
Google "parenting with love and logic". Worked well for me with my kids.
I would also love to get a good nights rest.
Not sure if I shared this with you:
Things I do in parallel:
Count down from 100 by threes to zero. repeat
Focus on breathing in and out fully and slowly
Focused relaxing parts of my body. Starting at my head and working to toes. Close eyes. relax face. work down.
Any thoughts. "I will worry about that tomorrow"
Talk to med doc if needed. I had these pills that had me out within 30 minutes. Woke up 8 hours later.
Daily exercise helped as well.
Marathon not Sprint.
Stay the course.
Offered to take family out to dinner last night. W declined, wanted time to herself. Had a great dinner with the kids. Really enjoyed the time. W fell asleep in the MRB but when got up and went downstairs to couch after I got in. Definitely did not feel good but her choice.
Took family to mass today and mall. Great time had by all.
Start a BB league tonight. Looking forward to that.
W fell asleep in the MRB but when got up and went downstairs to couch after I got in. Definitely did not feel good but her choice.
DId feel better than sleeping on couch yourself?
Hank, at this point we aren't dealing with the ideal, we are dealing with levels of less than ideal. You getting into the MB and her getting up and going to the couch is MORE ideal than you being a beta and setting up on the couch yourself.
Hi Hank,
Most posters take too long to make changes. What NEW permanent changes to your behavior do you want to make this week?
Journaling
Been a bit since I posted on here. Things remain the same in the Sitch but feels a whole lot worse. W has initiated R talks twice in the past week and it is more of the same. Too little too late, Why now, Torn, Angry, etc. She had made it clear she wants nothing to do with me outside of the kids. It cuts deep every time I realize this. I know I am failing at this, this is supposed to be for me but I keep getting my hopes up and then shot down. It’s only been 2 weeks but feels like 2 months. Everything she said that she has ever wanted is right there in front of her but I can’t get her to let go of the hate and grab it.
I have such a hard time understanding the why. Why break up the family, why go through the pain, why struggle financially, why do this. I’m seeing doctors but I can’t move on. I know she hurting, I know it’s selfish to only think of me.
You are still trying to apply logic to an emotional problem. Don't.
Let me give you some counsel, bastard,“ Lannister said. „Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strenght. Then it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.
You can choose to let this "hurt" you or to consider yourself iron in the fire, becoming stronger. Whichever you choose, you're right.
I always liked that quote. It's from a popular book/HBO show.
W has initiated R talks twice in the past week and it is more of the same. Too little too late, Why now, Torn, Angry, etc. She had made it clear she wants nothing to do with me outside of the kids.
I do not know how to stress to you that this is a good sign.
Keep making positive changes to you. Quickly get to a point that you are happy she is saying these things you. When the spouse is indifferent then you need to worry even more.
This is one big test of how you handle stressful things. Pass the test.
You are still trying to apply logic to an emotional problem. Don't.
Let me give you some counsel, bastard,“ Lannister said. „Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strenght. Then it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.
You can choose to let this "hurt" you or to consider yourself iron in the fire, becoming stronger. Whichever you choose, you're right.
It’s a solid quote. Thank you for sharing it
W has initiated R talks twice in the past week and it is more of the same. Too little too late, Why now, Torn, Angry, etc. She had made it clear she wants nothing to do with me outside of the kids.
I do not know how to stress to you that this is a good sign.
Keep making positive changes to you. Quickly get to a point that you are happy she is saying these things you. When the spouse is indifferent then you need to worry even more.
This is one big test of how you handle stressful things. Pass the test.
Thank you for the advice. I really needed it today.