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Battling Forward Part2Where I am - Reflecting on all the recent comments, gyming hard and doing things I wasn't even comfortable with as a PT, reading books recommended by R2C.
New events, my Apple books auto shared to all devices so W knows what I've been reading....thankfully DB I read a paper version. W was disrespectful again during an innocent chat, I didn't get deep in an R chat however I let her know its not acceptable. I received an excuse for the behavior. W talked about her feelings, I validated. Comments from W in terms of D, reconcile, future, being out of love, etc. were not brought up sans one saying we arent even friends right now.
I'm backing off. Focusing back inward and on the kids.
C,
So your C wants you to let your W know that her feelings are invalid and wrong.
Let me tell you a story that happen to me 15 years ago.
My ex and I were having a difficult time having children after trying for years. During this time my sister announced she was pregnant. I was happy for my sister but my wife was actually mad about it. We got into a big argument with me telling her she shouldn't feel that way and it was wrong. Anyway fast forward 15 years and every version told to someone of why she wanted a D (and there are several versions) includes that story.
Something to think about.
Interesting to hear the perspective of your IC relating to DB. Mine is anti DB in their opinion and experience, I should have R chats to clear up W's festering resentments and to set the record straight on things that didnt happen (rewriting of the past stuff, or miscommunications).
Do you think those R chats will clear up her resentments? I suggest reading more. Resentments take a long time to build, and a long time to heal in a way that weakens the emotional response that comes with it.
"Setting the record straight" haha oh lord!!! Don't try this unless you are a glutton for punishment. Now is certainly not the time. The time for this talk may never come. Are you ok with that? Will it bug you forever? Can the right....attitude...overcome that? Up to you....
How long did it take to rebuild your PMA? I'm there with you, I had that and confidence in spades before I shifted focus and lost the alpha.
I'm still doing it. Every day I have to prove it to myself.
Ovr, great point on resentment. And the point applies to people's sitches in general. Sitches don't happen over night, it takes a long time to build to BD. Then we want to just do a few things to fix it, overnight. It doesn't happen like that.
Oh man oh man oh man! Let's clear up wife's resentments by pointing out to her that they are all wrong, LOL! That is just some REALLY bad advice there. Even in a healthy relationship that would be a terrible thing to do! Your W's resentments, whatever they are, are very real to her. Let me give an example that I have read many times on these forums over the years:
Situation: Husband works late every night.
Husband's view: He's sacrificing the home life he would prefer to have to provide for the family and he feels his wife should appreciate him for that. He gets home and she's cranky from watching the kids. She "throws" the kids at him at a time he is ready to kick back and relax. He resents that she doesn't seem to appreciate how hard he is working to provide for the family. He expresses his resentment by complaining about how dirty the house is, how cold the food is, how he has to do everything when he gets home. On top of everything else she never wants to have sex!
Wife's view: Husband is "never home". He works all the time, doesn't help with the kids, expects her to take care of EVERYTHING at home PLUS have food on the table whenever he decides to show up. Then he gets angry when she tries to take a break once he finally does get home. On top of everything else, he expects her to drop everything and have sex when he doesn't even bother to tell her she looks pretty or even send her any kind of a nice text all day because he's "too busy". He says he does it to provide, but who cares? Does he really think money is more important than a loving family?
OK so now that you know how both of them are feeling, answer these questions:
1. Who is right and who is wrong?
2. Is the answer for one of them to point out to the other how their perception is wrong?
^^^THIS is how marriages fall apart. Resentment builds on both sides, and both feel like the other doesn't understand their side. Often the only difference between a WAS and LBS is who dropped the bomb first. Almost always, both have been thinking about it for a long time. But once one drops the bomb, it triggers regret in the other and then they end up here telling their story.
What each of us should strive for is to never let it get to this point to begin with. COMMUNICATION is the solution. The two should sit down together and make a JOINT decision on these matters without blame.
W: Can we talk about your work hours? It is putting a huge strain on me that you are working late all the time.
H: You are right, I feel the pressure as well. I would rather be home, but felt like I had to do this to provide for us.
W: I understand you feel the need to provide and I appreciate that about you. But maybe there's a compromise we can make.
H: I could insist on working less OT, but it may hurt my chances for a promotion.
W: I feel our family life should be more important than the promotion, how do you feel?
H: Hmmm, maybe you're right. All these hours are killing me anyway, what point is getting a promotion if I am never home and am miserable all the time.
W: I fully support you in this. If I need to quit my part time job and take a full time job so you can spend more time at home then I think that would benefit us all.
H: You don't know how much I appreciate that, but first let me cut back on my hours and we will see how things go.
THIS is how they taught us to communicate in Retrouvaille. Listen, validate, communicate, negotiate. I really wish I had been taught it 30 years ago, I would have been a much more effective husband.
Bottom line- respect your W's feelings even if you don't agree with them. She sees things differently than you, but that doesn't make her version of events wrong.
LH's example really hits home, I can think of a few such examples from my marriage as well and man do I wish I could get a redo on that. Instead of telling my XW how "wrong" her feelings were I would have listened, validated and supported her.
LH's example really hits home, I can think of a few such examples from my marriage as well and man do I wish I could get a redo on that. Instead of telling my XW how "wrong" her feelings were I would have listened, validated and supported her.
Yes, we've all made this mistake! Either in the marriage, or in our sitch, especially at the beginning. I know that in my sitch, for those two days were I hadn't remembered DBing at the beginning, I did quite a bit of this. You vets are right.....it did nothing but confirm to my W that I was the jerk H she thought I was, and that she was right to want out and to move on.
Core, listen to this advice. Perception is reality. Those resentments are her perception. Whether they are truly accurate or not doesn't matter because it is her reality.
Oh the irony floating around here. I've been told several times that my perceptions were wrong and it just served to cheese me off. it actually proves AS and Steve's point though.
But no one is immune to doing it. We all do it (even now) We as humans tend to dismiss others perspectives. However, you have to be mindful of when it come up so you can disengage from that pattern.
I question your IC's advice and would start looking around for someone else. You can, of course, do what you want, but you also aren't stuck with the first IC you see. You are free to try someone else who's view fits in with yours better.
Oh the irony floating around here. I've been told several times that my perceptions were wrong and it just served to cheese me off. it actually proves AS and Steve's point though.
There is a big difference in being told by strangers on the internet that your perception is skewed, as opposed to a LBS that is trying to reconcile telling that to their WAS. That is why people come here, to get their thinking, their thoughts, their perceptions, their perspective adjusted.
But a WAS does not want to here from their LBS that their feelings are wrong. If you could get the WAS to listen to an objective third party there might be a chance, but even then they'd probably buck it.
Disagree. it doesn't matter if its a friend, spouse, enemy or stranger. If you get into the habit of dismissing people's perceptions, you are more likely to do it to everyone. The business world is full of talk of emotional intelligence these days. This is right in line with that idea.
Most people don't want to hear that their perceptions are wrong. It's not just a WAS. Don't believe me. Try it on your W tonight. tell us how it goes.
My message to Core would be this is something that he can work on with this W and other people. This is a skill that we all need to develop regardless of what happens in our M.
I'm not to proud to admit my own mistake with this with my W. My W didn't like my brothers fiancé. I kept telling her she was wrong to not like her and that she needed to get over it. How do you think that went? I have since apologized for minimizing her feelings (Well before the BD) but I know she still remembers it.
Again, I am not disagreeing with you. At all. But when someone goes to people for objectivity, that is what they should be given. LBSs come here all the time wanting to pressure and pursue. Feeling like they need to be talking to their WAS about the situation all the time. We could tell them what they want to hear and watch them walk right into a D, or we can tell them what gives them a better chance at eventually Ring.
I was not advocating any married person doing "It's not just a WAS. Don't believe me. Try it on your W tonight. tell us how it goes." That is how you end up with a WAS!
I agree that Core should be practicing validation of feelings...in all walks of life, to exercise that muscle. But if he comes here thinking he won't get objectivity himself then I don't know why he would post here.
"I'm not to proud to admit my own mistake with this with my W. My W didn't like my brothers fiancé. I kept telling her she was wrong to not like her and that she needed to get over it. How do you think that went? I have since apologized for minimizing her feelings (Well before the BD) but I know she still remembers it."
Yep. Did similar stuff. It is not the right approach at all for a S. However, if your W went to a forum online and said "I don't like my BiL's fiance, how should i deal with it." I see no problem with that forum giving her a dose of objectivity. That is what we are. My point was that when you said:
"Oh the irony floating around here. I've been told several times that my perceptions were wrong and it just served to cheese me off. it actually proves AS and Steve's point though."
Getting told HERE that your perceptions are skewed is not the same as a S telling their S they are. Or a coworker telling a coworker that. Or -insert any real life example you want here-. But on this forum we tend to give 2x4s to help a LBS get their thinking right. Some don't like the bluntness. I've often told the posters here in their threads, if you don't like what I say tell me to kick rocks and I will move on to the threads that do appreciate it.
But one thing I will NOT tolerate is someone else telling me in another poster's thread not to be blunt. Being blunt, straight-forward and objective is for the OP's benefit. And if another poster doesn't like it...tough. (Unless that other poster is job or cadet! LOL)
I know that the focus here is on the LBS and the WAS. But I was simply suggesting that not invalidating perceptions/feelings is a life skill that has benefits beyond DB. With any life skill, it does take practice and there is no better way to get practice than in a less stressful situation that an WAS and the LBS.
The LBS desperately wants to tell the WAS all the ways that their perception/feelings are wrong. Because, at least in most early days, the LBS thinks that will change things. I think MWD says something to that effect.
I do think Core's IC is not giving him the best advice about 1) telling his WAS that her perceptions are wrong and 2) initiating R talks at every chance.
I do hope you think no one was telling you how to post or what to say, that would be really frustrating.
Hey Core...
A couple hits to start....
First off, snooping...
IF you can handle the information that you find, and it doesn't affect your inner peace, then feel free.
I think so, for most people here, that snooping spins them out of control, and allows you to become a victim of what someone else is "doing to you". It allows you to become controlling, and manipulative toward a person that you proclaim "unconditional love" for.
It allows you to buy into your fears, and become someone you are not on any typical day.
As it was simply put to me ?
Stop asking questions that you don't want the answer to.
Things have a way of coming to you when you most need them..
Snooping also allows you to buy into your fears....
Those fears, the ones you mentioned the other day. They are pretty fierce huh ???
Core, the worst thing that you can fathom, has already happened to you. And you survived it so far...
It took some time for me to realize that what was most important to me, was WHO I was, rather than WHAT I was.
Who I am, as a Man, a friend, a Father, a brother, a son, a spouse/partner, whatever the case may be, become infinitely more important than just being "married" .
I wasn't willing to sell myself, strictly to still wear that ring....
And I think that if you take all of that into account...
When you are snooping, or whatever..
Are you being the person that you want to be ???
For me....I wasn't. I wanted my spouse back, but not like that.
I think that the one thing that could help you more than anything right now, would be to stop holding her accountable for how you feel, and how you react.
She isn't responsible for how you portray yourself, and making her responsible for that isn't fair. To you or her.
I think that this is the key to a lot of your anger and resentment right now. She is doing "A", which makes you do "B", which causes "C",
I don't buy it. You worry about "U", and things will fall into place quickly for you...
Being honest with yourself, only worrying about what you can control, and not allowing yourself to make excuses for your behavior and actions, will be the greatest gift you give yourself now.
I know your IC told you that relationship talks are good. And they might be. But for who ?
I think the tightrope that you will walk here, is that they can be a good thing, as long as YOU aren't the one initiating them. If she comes to you ? Then by all means, partake. Just be a different you than you have been in the past.
Remember that there are typically 3 sides to the truth. Your side, her side, and in the middle is where truth usually lives.
When you talk with her, DO NOT defend yourself...
You are never gonna talk your way out of something you acted your way into..
Just because she says something, it doesn't make it fact, or true...
However, it is very true for her.
You cannot disagree with how another person feels. And unless you accept that those are her feelings, you will never be able to make her feel safe, and heard....
That's prolly enough for now. I won't want to overload you anymore than you probably already are...
I just want you to know that this is about you Core.
Something simply asked to me early on, was...
.
Do you want to be defined, by the worst thing that has happened to you ???
You will have to answer that one day...
Because as you sit here today, the OLD marriage is dead and gone. It isn't something that you would want to merely revive anyhow.
Anything in the future would have to be re-born from that ashes of what is left.
And the solid foundation begins with you....
^^^THIS is how marriages fall apart. Resentment builds on both sides, and both feel like the other doesn't understand their side. Often the only difference between a WAS and LBS is who dropped the bomb first. Almost always, both have been thinking about it for a long time. But once one drops the bomb, it triggers regret in the other and then they end up here telling their story.
Wow that really hits home to me, because I do think back on how when my wife would tell me things that she felt were going wrong I would just immediately think she was wrong and become defensive, and the resentment would just build over time.
It allows you to buy into your fears, and become someone you are not on any typical day.
Stop asking questions that you don't want the answer to.
Things have a way of coming to you when you most need them..
Snooping also allows you to buy into your fears....
Those fears, the ones you mentioned the other day. They are pretty fierce huh ???
Core, the worst thing that you can fathom, has already happened to you. And you survived it so far...
It took some time for me to realize that what was most important to me, was WHO I was, rather than WHAT I was.
Who I am, as a Man, a friend, a Father, a brother, a son, a spouse/partner, whatever the case may be, become infinitely more important than just being "married" .
I wasn't willing to sell myself, strictly to still wear that ring....
And I think that if you take all of that into account...
When you are snooping, or whatever..
Are you being the person that you want to be?
I think that the one thing that could help you more than anything right now, would be to stop holding her accountable for how you feel, and how you react.
She isn't responsible for how you portray yourself, and making her responsible for that isn't fair. To you or her.
I think that this is the key to a lot of your anger and resentment right now. She is doing "A", which makes you do "B", which causes "C",
I don't buy it. You worry about "U", and things will fall into place quickly for you...
Being honest with yourself, only worrying about what you can control, and not allowing yourself to make excuses for your behavior and actions, will be the greatest gift you give yourself now.
I know your IC told you that relationship talks are good. And they might be. But for who ?
I think the tightrope that you will walk here, is that they can be a good thing, as long as YOU aren't the one initiating them. If she comes to you ? Then by all means, partake. Just be a different you than you have been in the past.
Remember that there are typically 3 sides to the truth. Your side, her side, and in the middle is where truth usually lives.
When you talk with her, DO NOT defend yourself...
You are never gonna talk your way out of something you acted your way into..
Just because she says something, it doesn't make it fact, or true...
However, it is very true for her.
You cannot disagree with how another person feels. And unless you accept that those are her feelings, you will never be able to make her feel safe, and heard....
Do you want to be defined, by the worst thing that has happened to you ???
You will have to answer that one day...
Because as you sit here today, the OLD marriage is dead and gone. It isn't something that you would want to merely revive anyhow.
And the solid foundation begins with you....
Clubbed over the head with 2x4s. Thank you for this. I don't know where to begin. This came in time as I almost resorted to snooping again. That person is not what I want to be or ever wanted to be. Snooping is a moral line I never wanted to cross, and I agree that I'm to blame for crossing my own line. If I found any new evidence, the little peace I have now would be shattered.
Some of this is hard to hear but needed. Prime example is me blaming her for how she makes me feel or her making me take actions. That's been behind a number of conflicts during the course of the marriage. Lots of NGS on my end. Easier to blame her than control and be accountable my actions.
As much as I think I am the solid foundation of a new relationship, whomever that may be with, you, Steve, Mario, U, Ovr, Job, AS, R2C and the others generously giving feedback have rocked me, in a good way.
The challenge now is the high number of things to work on and self improve. I had no idea how broken I became. All with due time I suppose. Almost paralyzing looking at my changes to implement and hold for life.
Your comment about WHO I am versus WHAT I am...I don't know if I even know who I am. My mind is blown from the BD and now the DB. Its like I've been carpet bombed and am rebuilding amongst the devastation. Pieces are everywhere. Thank you for getting me thinking.
^^^THIS is how marriages fall apart. Resentment builds on both sides, and both feel like the other doesn't understand their side. Often the only difference between a WAS and LBS is who dropped the bomb first. Almost always, both have been thinking about it for a long time. But once one drops the bomb, it triggers regret in the other and then they end up here telling their story.
AS, that resonates so much with my sitch. You and the other here have me convinced to listen and validate, even if she's way off base. Its her feelings and perspective that matter.
Mario, Steve and the others on here, thank you for continuing to support and helping me to get in a better place.
My anger is whittling down. My W tells me she's angry at me all the time. Now I know how she feels. This is going to be a LONG process. I'm starting to engrain validating others. Very seldom is there a chance with W, so I am learning with D4 and coworkers. Energy levels are kicking up more days than not. I'd love to hit the gym more if I could but recovery physically is not like my 20s!
Core, believe it or not, anger is not the end of the world. I have seen many marriages where there was an unhappy, "I want out" spouse, but there was no anger. There was no hate. But there also was no love. The biggest death knell for any MR is apathy. Once a spouse no longer cares, then the marriage is probably headed towards an end.
My own sitch ALMOST go to that point. My W was in the beginning stages of apathy. And once complete apathy sets in there is almost no going back.
Core, believe it or not, anger is not the end of the world. I have seen many marriages where there was an unhappy, "I want out" spouse, but there was no anger. There was no hate. But there also was no love. The biggest death knell for any MR is apathy. Once a spouse no longer cares, then the marriage is probably headed towards an end.
My own sitch ALMOST go to that point. My W was in the beginning stages of apathy. And once complete apathy sets in there is almost no going back.
You see Love is a CHOICE and if 2 people choose it everyday then all is good.
BUT when one stops = trouble.
Clubbed over the head with 2x4s. Thank you for this. I don't know where to begin. This came in time as I almost resorted to snooping again. That person is not what I want to be or ever wanted to be. Snooping is a moral line I never wanted to cross, and I agree that I'm to blame for crossing my own line. If I found any new evidence, the little peace I have now would be shattered.
And now that you "know" , you can't use it as an excuse again....
Some of this is hard to hear but needed. Prime example is me blaming her for how she makes me feel or her making me take actions. That's been behind a number of conflicts during the course of the marriage. Lots of NGS on my end. Easier to blame her than control and be accountable my actions.
NGS, or whatever you want to call it is fairly common in a relationship. I have to come to find that there is a high percentage that is necessary in a relationship.
We Men want to eat meat, have sex, drink beer and be treated as if we are the king of the world. But even as we have evolved as people, there is still the primate in us all.
I think that it goes back to how we CHOOSE to be daily. And finding that balance between the bravado and the softer side of us. Realizing that a Man can be completely barbaric and incredibly emasculated at the same time ??
Maybe...
How can you make that dynamic different ?
As much as I think I am the solid foundation of a new relationship, whomever that may be with, you, Steve, Mario, U, Ovr, Job, AS, R2C and the others generously giving feedback have rocked me, in a good way.
Sometimes you have to start climbing the ladder from the bottom rung...
The challenge now is the high number of things to work on and self improve. I had no idea how broken I became. All with due time I suppose. Almost paralyzing looking at my changes to implement and hold for life.
I would venture that you aren't totally broken...
Just a little out of sorts, and confused on what, where, when, and why you are doing what you do...
Try to not look at this as being broken, but as an opportunity to become anew...
Your comment about WHO I am versus WHAT I am...I don't know if I even know who I am. My mind is blown from the BD and now the DB. Its like I've been carpet bombed and am rebuilding amongst the devastation. Pieces are everywhere. Thank you for getting me thinking.
Start small. One day at a time, one hour at a time....one minute at a time if you need be...
I started with a list of qualities that I want to SHOW the world everyday, regardless of what was being shown to me or what was going on around me...
I know Mach knows how to eat an elephant.
Do you?
Answer = One bite at a time.
Hey Mach! Glad to see you are back! Happy New Year!
Please, please listen to Mach...he knows what he is talking about. He's been around a long time and his advice is spot on!
Hey Mach! Glad to see you are back! Happy New Year!
Please, please listen to Mach...he knows what he is talking about. He's been around a long time and his advice is spot on!
Happy New Year Job !!!!
Thank you, and flattery will get you everywhere
Hope things are well with you and yours ???
Lots of great advice here, I'm just hoping I can contribute....
Mach,
Your sage advice is always welcome. We can all learn some new things along the way.
Core,
I'm sorry for the hi-jack, but Mach is a friend that doesn't come here often, but I always like to say "hi" to him.
Mach also helped me immensely when I was in the thick of my sitch!
Hey All, I'm right back in turmoil. I went to pay the cell phone bill and my suspicions were correct. Their app to hide texts must've stopped working, I saw W texting OM will 3am.
A refresh, we are still living together. No separation or D started. No mediation. Neither of us is moving out. I cant control her and stop the affair, nor will I cross my moral line and file the D. What can I do? I was hoping I was mistaken but the long distance EA continues.
C,
I understand your moral line on divorce. I’m just wondering where your moral line is in being in an open marriage?
Hold the advice on my last post. Save yourselves some time. I confronted. Will explain later. Read Sandi posts all AM amd got riled up. W lied about the evidence till I proved it.
: Ok, so I broke the rules and advice again and confronted after seeing our voice call logs. W lied of course until I gave her the hard evidence. Says they haven't chatted since I first found the affair. Sounds almost believable. Said she didnt want to divorce but doesnt trust me to be in a marriage. In the end, I still don't know what she wants and I dont think she does either. I have a feeling this conversation will just push under the rug.
Thing is, what if any of it was true, what if she was trying to see if we could work?
Just what in the F. I cant believe its gotten to this. Saying I dont know how to communicate, that I dont know what love is. That I wanted the marriage over this whole time. As you all mention, I come out of the convo feeling like the bad guy.
Core,
She really doesn't know what she wants and I believe her answer was an honest one.
You saw that she lied about the cell phone issue until you showed her the hard evidence. It doesn't take 2+ hours to ask someone to take a message down.
She is trying to figure out what love is. She is trying to figure out if love is an emotion and if that's the case, why isn't she feeling it. Sounds like her feelings for you are numb right now and she doesn't understand why she feels differently w/the OM.
Right now, she's not sure if she wants to move out and take a chance w/the OM. Maybe, he's not ready to commit to a relationship and live under the same roof w/her. As long as she is emotionally and/or physically tied to him, she can't be working on the marriage.
At this point, stop trying to rationalize with her. You can't snap her out of this and it is just frustrating you even more so. The more you try to talk to her about it, the more she's going to pull away or even make promises to you that she can't keep.
For now, keep your expectations at zero. If she truly wants to work on the marriage, she would be cutting ties w/the OM and definitely not lengthy conversations w/him. She has to earn your trust and that's not happening at the moment.
No more talks w/her about the relationship. BTW, Your confrontation reminded me of her being a child and you being the authority figure, i.e., father.
For now focus on you and what you need to do for yourself and your family. You can't control her, but you can control how you react/respond to her behavior.
At this point, stop trying to rationalize with her. You can't snap her out of this and it is just frustrating you even more so. The more you try to talk to her about it, the more she's going to pull away or even make promises to you that she can't keep.
For now, keep your expectations at zero. If she truly wants to work on the marriage, she would be cutting ties w/the OM and definitely not lengthy conversations w/him. She has to earn your trust and that's not happening at the moment.
No more talks w/her about the relationship. BTW, Your confrontation reminded me of her being a child and you being the authority figure, i.e., father.
For now focus on you and what you need to do for yourself and your family. You can't control her, but you can control how you react/respond to her behavior.
Agreed. Get on with GAL for Core.
Job, great feedback and good insight.
Coming across like a father figure, I probably did. Not sure how you figured that out but I think you're right.
At a time when there is hard evidence of the OM, Im still not supposed to confront? How can I earn respect from myself or anyone living in the same house while it is blatant what is happening? I dont want that around me.
She cried slightly which Ive not seen her do in awhile.
She asked me to build a dresser yesterday. All the while doing what she's doing. Must be nice having someone who loves you agree with you at a time like this.
Shouldve just paid the bill without looking at history and I couldn't blissfully kept GALing amd 180ing.
Sooooo....
What does love mean to you ???
And not some sappy Hallmark BS answer.....
What does it mean, to love someone ???
There used to be a slogan around here, that if something the WAS said to you, sent that little burn up the back of your neck...
Then maybe you should look into why it angered you so much...
And you may say that you were angry over finding the texts...
However....
YOU need to rise above this...
Whatever that looks like.
YOU need to rise above everything that is going on around you, and find YOUR center...
C,
At a time when there is hard evidence of the OM, Im still not supposed to confront? How can I earn respect from myself or anyone living in the same house while it is blatant what is happening? I dont want that around me. .
It’s ok to confront as long as you have a plan of action to follow. You apparently do not so you look weak. When you look weak there is no respect. You would have been better of ignoring it and continuing to 180 and GAL. You’re living in fear right now and until you get stronger unfortunately you will suffer.
Just out of curiosity what do you think you were going to get out of confrontation?
LH, I hear you. Both options suck. I cant pull the trigger on divorce. Yet. My friend is surviving and becoming happier after his marriage where a PA lasted for a long time. Im reasoning with myself, telling myself this is her sickness, like mine was anxiety. The longer this lasts though, the more me and the kids seem to lose, and the more she gains.
That's irking me too. I'd love to be SAHD, spending all day with the kids, having a spouse come home to share all the fun events with. Not only is she SAHM, she also gets the best of both worlds with OM and I. She stated twice this AM how good a dad and man I am, but terrible husband.
Who said you had to get a divorce?
C,
Just out of curiosity what do you think you were going to get out of confrontation?
I didn't have a plan. I see the flaw just in writing that sentence. Maybe I was hoping for a confession, tears, and her saying she wants the M, etc.
Sooooo....
What does love mean to you ???
And not some sappy Hallmark BS answer.....
What does it mean, to love someone ???
There used to be a slogan around here, that if something the WAS said to you, sent that little burn up the back of your neck...
Then maybe you should look into why it angered you so much...
And you may say that you were angry over finding the texts...
However....
YOU need to rise above this...
Whatever that looks like.
YOU need to rise above everything that is going on around you, and find YOUR center...
Mach, good questions.
Love IMO is trust, committment, respect, showing signs of affection, empathy, caring and knowing what you'd sacrifice for said person. Giving, not just taking. Thinking of the person when your in your best and worst moments. I dont think of love as a feeling. I see it as more than that.
I believe here what angered me about W's responses is the disrespect and invalidness of the statements. Which I see as signs of not loving, caring or even having sympathy.
Rise above while everything is crumbling. That my friend is a difficult feat!
Core - I’m sorry you find yourself here. I too am very new and far from doing anything well. I’m guilty of not reading your full thread so forgive me if this is inaccurate but the last few posts I did read appear like you are having difficulty in the detachment area. I too am struggling with this. I can tell you that I feel the most confident IN MYSELF when I don’t think about what H is doing, where H is going, who H is talking to, who gave H certain things I’ve found or the future. We are still living together so everything is right in front of me all the time. Days that I feel insecure, angry, and baffled by how H can’t “snap out of it” I replay advice in my head that works for me....
-This isn’t about me...it hurts me but only when I allow it to
-remember the confusion in your W ...when I feel like I’m wrong/crazy I quickly think of the some of the most baffling things H has said and then let it go again...
-compassionate detachment (learned on this forum) is my center. H doesn’t want me right now and I’m not begging (been there done that) but I have chosen to still be here IF he turns around
-I’ve almost fully stopped snooping cause I spiral every time I find something...for me there there is NO fact...so why get worked up over maybe’s (i need to take my own advice on this one)!
I try to make myself laugh a lot too (even tho not much is funny to me right now)....as Im writing this I had the song “I will survive” running through my head like a theme song .... interesting lyrics if you ask me:
“At first I was afraid, I was petrified
Kept thinking I could never live without you by my side
But then I spent so many nights thinking how you did me wrong
And I grew strong
And I learned how to get along
And so you're back
From outer space....”
Hmmmmmm...could this be about an MLCr??? The alien reference is BANG ON ...no????
Steve, Mario you said awhile back to have patience. Thats when it wasnt 100 percent sure if the EA continued. Now I know its still happening. Is the fix here to sit and let it happen? That doesnt feel right at all. Nothing I can do that isnt controlling or punishing, so what do I do? W legit said she wants the family unit but doesnt want to work on the marriage and I think indirectly said she wants the EA to continue.
This SOB contacting her went on instagram to write about love (potentially about my wife if she isnt lying). They are out there. So I keep working my 9 to 5 and pretend this isnt happening which seems foolish now. What have others done? Im not about to wait out a full EA. W admitted it wouldnt work with them yet still needs the fix. So who knows when another suitor appears.
So, basically she told you she wants her cake and she wants to eat it too.
So what can you do within your control? I don’t think pretending like it isn’t happening is the answer.
What are yours boundaries? How do you enforce your boundaries?
Thats where I feel trapped. Within my control I can file for D which Im trying to avoid, or walk away from her when she pushes a boundary. With two young kids, I cant leave the house or risk legally getting less custody. Daycare is not affordable unless W gets a job. I cant kick her out as shes the babysitter. I dont know what I have at bay to enforce the boundary.
Well, let’s start with not acting like a family unit.
She wants to be a family, while she runs around behind your back. I don’t know if you are ok with that. So maybe you shouldn’t be pretending to be happy family. You live like you are not together. You have your time with the kids, she has her time, and you go out and GAL on your time. You go and enjoy yourself .
When it’s your time with the kids, you have a fantastic time with them. She doesn’t come along and ply happy family. Because you will not be in an open marriage.
How’s that for a start?
Thats good! Do I bring it up and say for example, I want these 4 nights with the kids and you get these 3 or just start separating us?
Hey Core - sorry you're having a rough go of it. That's to be expected on the emotional rollercoaster.
You're main job here right now is to protect yourself and your kids. W isn't the person you knew before, and she is going to be making all kinds of weird decisions and acting strangely. This will happen for quite some time. So your goal is to get yourself as emotionally strong as you can and be the best dad you can to your kids.
That's why I highly recommended not snooping anymore. What good is it doing you? You already know what you suspect is happening or happened already. So let it go. W is going to do what she wants, she controls her behaviors, you control yours.
The best thing you can do is focus on yourself and your kids and leave WAW to her own drama. Getting a life for yourself is very important - it will feel weird at first but the more you do it the more you will get used to it.
Stay strong!
Core,
I'm not completely up on your sitch, only the last few posts.
It does sukk what you found by snooping and how much of a blow it is to the soul. That being said, it is an opportunity to use it as motivation and to set a boundary. Your boundary is that this is unacceptable to you and you will not tolerate it.
I was once in this exact position at one time with 2 kids. Looking back, I would have done things differently.
I get the sense that you fear how you would be able to care for your children on your own. Is that accurate? If it is, don't let that be the reason you're not assertive with your boundaries. You'll find a way whatever the outcome.
I'd suggest communicating something like:
"W, this does not work for me. I respect myself enough not to live in an open relationship. Going forward, I will not pretend that we are a family and will not be doing anything together. We can split our time with our children 50/50. I will have them Sunday-Tuesday and you will have them Thursday-Saturday. We can alternate Wednesdays to make it fair. Once we have different households, we can alternate full weeks. If/when you choose to work with me on our MR, another person cannot be involved and I need full transparency."
Again, I do not know your whole sitch, so my suggestion is an example for your reference.
Core,
just take your time and decide on a firm plan of action before revealing anything to her. You want to cover your bases here. I like what LITB said except I would make it briefer and exclude the part about choosing to work on the MR. She already knows that part. It'd be better if she thought otherwise.
She should she go live with the OM and see how great it is. Just make sure that you aren't getting in the way of her seeing how much of a POS the OM is.
You need to make it real, for you and for her, that you aren't going to be sharing details of your lives and playing all hunky dory with her and that you aren't going to worry about her anymore.
She just wants the classic "cake-eating". Make sure you aren't running a bakery...
Mods, is there a way to hide, delete or edit old posts? I think I gave away too much information to tie back to me.
W stopped me this morning and asked to reconcile before I went to work. Amazing news though I am apprehensive to believe it. Remorse was shown, she agreed to what I asked for and I her. Great conversation and it seemed sincere.
I'd love to continue to come here for support, help others and have others read my posts for their own benefit however I think too much may tie to W and I and if found could jeopardize a chance at recon.
Core
I received your message and the answer is YES.
However you will need to provide much more specific details as I do not read minds.
Be advised that you can only REPORT a post once so if that has happened give links.
Hold the phone Core...I'm not convinced and I'd recommend taking some time to think things over. Didn't you just confirm the OM within the last week or so?
You are right to be apprehensive to tread carefully in the beginning and continue to work on yourself.
Slooooow way down my friend. More then likely she had a fight with OM.
Adding another voice to the choir here. Core, take things very slowly.
You still should believe nothing she says and only half of what she does.
Many here have been in your shoes only to be burned. Don't jump back in with 2 feet just yet.
I'm not sure that I've seen anything too personal in your posts either, just for perspective.
Agree with the others. Take it slow. Be healthily skeptical.
Review Sandi2's posts and threads for what to look for from a WW to know she is "turning" and ready to truly work on the MR. Contrition, sincere sorrow for her actions (and not just "Im sorry i hurt you, but: "I am sorry for having an affair, it was wrong"), expressed and DEMONSTRATED commitment to working to save the MR, willing to do whatever it takes to save MR. Actions speak louder than words. In general, she should agree to strict NC with OM, some form of transparency with you WRT devices, etc, MC and, possibly, IC depending on your sitch. Read and re-read Sandi2's stuff. You'll likely "know it when you see it"... when their rebellious spirit dies out, it's usually a complete change in demeanor/behavior.
You are likely to experience many stops and starts. I certainly did. In my case, evidence that my WW was willing to do the hard work was that she came clean on everything involving her and OM: was VERY contrite and apologetic, almost desperately so; not only agreed to MC/IC but sought our counselor out on her own after I had walked out; was finally willing to be intimate with me.
I'd also suggest to slow down. Like school zone speed.
You've only been here a very short time and just recently discovered communication between your W and OM.
What has changed in the last couple of days?
Heck, what has changed since you arrived here?
Are your relationship skills improved?
Has your W done anything to regain your trust?
Has she done any work to address her part of the demise of your MR?
There are plenty of questions that need to be answered, before jumping right into recon.....and there needs to be transparency on her part. Breath, and don't race to the end. Otherwise, you have to start over. Been there, done that.
Core, not only do I second everyone's suggestions about slowing down, I would go a step further and say to completely disregard her comment about reconciling. She needs to show you through ACTIONS, not words. And right now her actions are saying she is done with you and all about OM. I would give her time and space while you get out and GAL.
You ask what you can do about her cheating. Well, I understand you don't want to move out or pursue D, but you can still handle things like an in-house separation. Suggest to her that each of you take two evenings a week to GAL. Maybe she gets Monday and Wednesday and you get Tuesday and Thursday. I think I suggested this to you before but I don't think you ever implemented it. You take those two evenings and you go do something for yourself. Go have dinner with friends or whatever, but it is YOUR time and you do not tell her what you are doing with it. On her days she can go do what she wants. This will be a first step in her learning to miss you and realizing that you're not the Plan B she thinks you are.
Thank for for helping with the posts Cadet!
I'm with you all. Slow but sure wins the race.
Without too much detail, I checked out and was ready to move out. She started our R talk and said she missed me, is attracted to me and still loves me, and wants a new better relationship. D4 came close to a serious injury which W saw me prevent just in time followed by her coming down with a bad virus or flu. She is ok. W said she was glad her H was there.
W answered anything I asked about OM and blocked his phone #/emails.. maybe or maybe not full truth.
W asked to talk through resentments, which we did. We agreed to once a month outings to start. She has done everything ive asked thus far.
She called today and mentioned there were 3 things she had wanted from me the past few years and saw that Im doing them now. She mentioned liking how I was when overhearing me helping a friend with an issue with their kid.
The piecing forum is dead and I know if this is real, that its only beginning a painful and long journey. Thank you for the advice thus far. It looks like i keep my same DBing, keep it slow. Anything else to do differently if we are rebounding?
Core,
I agree...you need to slow down. She knew/sensed that you were just about ready to move out. She knew she had to do something to keep you there. She appears to have no issue answering anything that you asked her about the OM and she said she has blocked his phone calls/emails. That may be true or not. Is she willing to allow you to visit her accounts and see if what she told you is the truth? Transparency has to take place and she needs to earn your trust and not sweep the mess under the carpet and forget about it.
She has no problem pointing out the 3 things from the past that you should have been doing, but are doing now. Well, what about on her side of the street? Where there any things that you wanted her to do that she hasn't done? Remember...any changes that you have made or making for yourself need to become permanent and you didn't do them to win her back.
If she truly is sincere about reconciling, then she will need to do the work necessary to earn your trust. Is she willing to see an IC or MC? Both you can't go back to the marriage and pretend that this didn't happen. A new marriage must begin and that means trust is the first on the agenda and the actions speaker louder than words. Do her actions and words mirror each other.
Please, please don't be too hasty...take things slow and this may mean some date nights together and going on from there. BTW, you may want to visit Gordie's threads over on the MLC Forum. He reconciled w/his wife and you must might find some tidbits that may help you in your situation.
Hey core, job is probably right, here. My very first false start with my own wife, which was the first one where she actually seemed least somewhat sincere, and I actually believed we might be getting somewhere, was sparked by my threatening to leave. I walked away from her after a talk following discovery of a burner phone where she admitted to contacting OM. When I got home from my walk it was my intention to leave the house but she made some promises and played it down and I relented. It wasn't until I actually walked out some seven months later after discovering she had been entertaining phone calls from OM at work and then went to meet him at the gym that things finally turned for her and us over a period of several weeks (I was actually out of the house for two weeks before returning).). So... Go slow. And be prepared for setbacks and relapses. What your wife is going through is very very similar to a drug addiction, and it can be very difficult for her to finally and completely cut the cord or to do so cold turkey. She will probably try to find ways to twist your words or justify contacting OM if she is caught. U Need to be clear what you expect of her, in other words your boundaries, and clear on what the consequences are (in my case, I had told her at that time of what I now refer to as the "false start" that any further contact of any sort with om and we were done for good. When I found out 7 months later, I told her she disgusted me and didn't want to see her, gave her a week to get out of the house and then I left. She lost it, completely melted down and that started her turn right there).
In my case it took a couple of starts and stops, and, ultimately me actually leaving. It's very possible that it may take the same in your case. Stay alert, stay tough, and stay true to your changes, GALs and 180s.
I appreciate you all for jumping in here with excellent feedback. Im still processing comments in my head from weeks back from you all and a nice fresh load here to think about.
I kept GAL going, spent a few hours at church thinking. Planning on keeping it going mornings or nights depending on work schedule. I feel like some of my 180s are becoming permanent now. I think they say it's 90 days for a habit to stick. You've given me more insights helping me find more to improve and get some attention on while keeping up the old until I'm confident it sticks.
Hi All,
I sense we are going molasses slow if not backwards. Voice tone has changed and we talk more however yesterday there was still some disrespectful tone and shortness. I expect if we are going in the right direction, it can be weeks with no improvement. Does that sound about right?
I think this all certainly got me to reattach. One it leaves me vulnerable and to Im sure it can push her away if she senses it. I continue to GAL and 180. Continuing self help books. Doubt however keeps creeping in. Today she asked for time. She said she needs more time to think. I didnt put on any pressure but I think she put it on herself or is in withdrawal of ending her potential fantasy futures.
I thought this part would be easier. I think it was easier to accept the D. Now i feel like everything I do will or can undo the little progress made. Whats a good game plan for those that have been in it? I'm using patience, PMA, splitting up days a bit as AS suggested. I also just had a death in the family and my friend is going to the hospital for a potential tumor. This is unbearable. I see my IC on Monday. Getting by until then.
As W seems to have backtracked asking for time, I dont think any kind of counseling is in the cards. I miss love. I miss touch. I miss family togetherness.
C,
Everything you said isn’t surprising at all. I believe we all warned you about it. The tone and disrespect is concerning so make sure you nip it in the bud. This is going to take a really long time to play out so try to detach as much as possible.
Hey Core,
Sorry for the loss of your family member and the difficulties your friend is going through. It is never easy no matter the circumstances.
As for your DB'ing efforts, what do you mean by reattach? You can be in a committed relationship and still be detached. Have you read the thread on detachment?
You are still very early on in your sitch. The hurt and pain are very much present and you want to rush through it. You can't. It is a process. You didn't get to this point over night and it isn't going to turn around over night. It takes time and work to get there. If you are willing to commit to self-improvement, you will be all the better for it no matter the outcome of your sitch.
Patience....and more patience.
Core,
go slow. Have no expectations. Keep working on detachment. She is still flopping around like a fish in the boat. Believe nothing she says and only half of what she does.
She wants you kinda, and kinda not. Be patient and we will see if the wishy washy behavior goes away.
Thank you for the responses yesterday. I started an R chat yesterday, trying to get transparency on what happened previously while also voicing how I've felt. Stupid in my book now that i look back. I read up on piecing elsewhere where they talk about going through the past hurts and clearing the air. The more I reflect, the more I see DB rules and advice have been superior thus far.
I believe I almost pushed W back to saying we should end it. I switched subjects but I also despise how D is used as a weapon against me for control. If we repair, would she always threaten to leave....maybe. I find it disrespectful yet we are or said we were working on respect.
I'm back in limbo, maybe worse off than a month or two ago. Follow the rules.
I cant find the same patience and strength many of you have. How in times like this did you pull together so much patience? We've now had 3 chats that were not productive since our reconcile chat. I'm scared to be honest. I hurt almost as much as 3 weeks after BD. Its almost like she asked for D all over again.
I still dont think she wants the D, at least not 100 percent. How can the WW not see how much damage they are causing. Even with counseling, I can see myself getting PTSD over this.
C,
Sorry you are struggling but it sounds like you’re your own worst enemy. If you don’t have infinite patience you mine as well file for D now.
I used my kids for strength when I didn’t think I could go on anymore.
My guess is you’re a control freak and your W has all the control right now. She is not going to relinquish this power that is most likely new to her anytime soon. The person who cares about the relationship the least is in charge and that’s clearly her right now.
As you get stronger they may change. Right now you are acting on fear and you are looking for reassurance and she can’t give it you now because she has no respect for you. Unfortunately the more needy you are the more she is repulsed by your actions.
How can you change the dynamic?
Insightful! I just took at training at work which confirmed Im controlling. IC is helping with that and my anxiety however you're right, I'm a control freak. She has the power right now to destroy my life and I hate it being held over me.
How to change this dynamic, I dont know. I guess thats why I'm here. Im GALing like crazy, validating, and reading self help things non stop. Being mysterious. It seemed the dynamic changed for a day or two, I guess I need to be ready again for either outcome here.
Yes and what is behind control? Fear
What are you afraid of Core?
You change the dynamic by detaching, giving her time and space to figure her $hit out. You have to be genuinely ok with either outcome. If she stays great! If she Ds me that’s ok too. Either way you have a great life. Easier said then done but you have to take the focus off your w and when you do she will notice. Then maybe she changes her mind.
All easier said then done but nothing worth having is easy.
Truth. What I'm afraid of, is a 2x4 I need to keep getting hit with. Many, many things.
If she stays great! If she Ds me that’s ok too. Either way you have a great life. Easier said then done but you have to take the focus off your w and when you do she will notice. Then maybe she changes her mind.
All easier said then done but nothing worth having is easy.
Going to tell myself this ^^ daily.
I see a decent life for me either way. One path will have more regrets though and I'd miss a lot of what I care about most, her and the kids. The thing I wanted most in life was a loving family. The person who I committed to do that with dangles it in front of me (as she probably felt I did), and my challenge here is to be able to walk away from what I want most.
C,
I have been in your shoes my friend and most of the things you fear do not come true.
Maybe take some time to write down a list of things you’re afraid of and we can go through them and see if it’s just your monkey mind trying to protect you.
LH, thank you. It would probably take all night to get through them all! For you and anyone listening, this is where my mind is.
These bug me the most:
Lost time with kids if we D
Impact on the kids from losing their home, family structure, and school district
Help- I've very little help with the kids outside of Ws family and friends
Diet- kids and I would eat way worse if we D
Loneliness - ive had very few serious relationships before W. I havent been successful with women. When I finally was successful, I reverted on what made me strong and attractive. Dont want to lose that again.
Retirement- i started 401k late. Likely to not retire until after 72-75 if we D.
Kids-who knows what type of man would raise them
Dying alone
Finding a woman who is crazy, diseased or harmful to the kids if I d.
Finding someone I love and going through this again at the 5-10 year itch
Finding someone, then have W want to reconcile
Going months on end with no physical contact
Living with parents or in a small apartment with no ownership
As Captain America says, I could go all day.
Core,
I’m so close to your path it’s not funny. Same fears.
Every positive change is so slow and then you aren’t sure. But after a few months
You can look back and maybe see something.
R conversations are always tough and I’m just not going there anymore from my side.
I’m happy to listen.
I’ve started to feel confidence. I slip back daily but it keeps building knowing I will
Be ok either way.
It’s taken months to start being productive again.
Hang in man and stay busy.
Diet: kids and you would eat like crap? Hey look, it’s somewhere you have control! Learn how to prepare healthy meals!!!
Kids: who knows what type of man would raise them? Ummmm, you are the man who would raise them either way
Finding a woman who isn’t diseased or crazy? Well, you can certainly minimize chances of that one.
Loneliness: aren’t you lonely now? Your wife is cheating on you. That’s lonely.
You shouldn’t be finding someone if you would want to get back with your wife if she wants to reconcile. How about you get to the place where she doesn’t get to make that decision?
You need to get yourself a whole lot stronger and independent before you even try to make this work again, quite honestly. Be yourself own man. Secure. Happy. Else she’s just going to go onto OM number 3 if you let your fears control you
C,
I will respond more tomorrow but for now look up “catastrophic thinking”..
Hey core, hope you’re doing okay.
I was just reading that list you posted and I want you to know that you can change/control all of that! Also I’ve noticed that you place a lot of focus on your W. You need to learn to stop worrying about her and put that focus inward.
I knows it’s way easier said then done. It took me months, battling my thoughts and anxiety wondering about W. Then one day it just clicked. I realized that I can only control my actions and that despite how you feel, your W will make her own choices regardless. Once you can learn to accept this lack of control, things will get a lot easier for you.
I’ve found the beauty of detachment is that I rarely feel sad or worried anymore. I’ve accepted that somethings are out of my control and I’ll tell you it is freeing to finally let go.
It will take time but fake it till you make it. When I found myself wondering what W was up to, if she was manipulating or lying to me, I would just repeat in my head “you can only control yourself and your actions.” Eventually you just have to let go.
Continue to 180 and always have a PMA, but realize that your focus at this time should be on yourself and your children! Good luck buddy.
Thank you for the responses yesterday. I started an R chat yesterday, trying to get transparency on what happened previously while also voicing how I've felt. Stupid in my book now that i look back. I read up on piecing elsewhere where they talk about going through the past hurts and clearing the air. The more I reflect, the more I see DB rules and advice have been superior thus far.
I believe I almost pushed W back to saying we should end it. I switched subjects but I also despise how D is used as a weapon against me for control. If we repair, would she always threaten to leave....maybe. I find it disrespectful yet we are or said we were working on respect.
I'm back in limbo, maybe worse off than a month or two ago. Follow the rules.
I cant find the same patience and strength many of you have. How in times like this did you pull together so much patience? We've now had 3 chats that were not productive since our reconcile chat. I'm scared to be honest. I hurt almost as much as 3 weeks after BD. Its almost like she asked for D all over again.
I still dont think she wants the D, at least not 100 percent. How can the WW not see how much damage they are causing. Even with counseling, I can see myself getting PTSD over this.
Core can you do this.
I don't mean this to crap on you but I don't think guys had a real "R" talk if you know what I mean and as we all mentioned you definitly weren't piecing. It doesn't seem like she's at that point so don't go digging for info from her. I know how easy it is to assume the best because that's what you want.
Now, don't ASSUME everything that she's saying means ANYTHING. Period. You have no idea what the future holds for you both and I can tell you assume if you work things out that she's going to be the same person she's kind of being now.
One of the best things you can do right now is really focus on DETACHING. You don't initiate any talks except for pleasantries as you would a cashier. If she talks, you LISTEN and VALIDATE when appropriate. It doesn't mean you agree, it means you understand her feelings (as crazy as you may think they are). You need to step back and let go a little here...a lot here. But you can do this.
LH, thank you. It would probably take all night to get through them all! For you and anyone listening, this is where my mind is.
These bug me the most:
Lost time with kids if we D
****This is real but the quality of the time will be better and will make up for lost time*****
Impact on the kids from losing their home, family structure, and school district
**** This can be controlled by how well your work together*****
Help- I've very little help with the kids outside of Ws family and friends
*****Why do you need help*****
Diet- kids and I would eat way worse if we D
*****Why? Something definitely under your control******
Loneliness - ive had very few serious relationships before W. I havent been successful with women. When I finally was successful, I reverted on what made me strong and attractive. Dont want to lose that again.
*****again, something you can control*******
Retirement- i started 401k late. Likely to not retire until after 72-75 if we D.
****You have no idea what the future holds*********
Kids-who knows what type of man would raise them
****Do you trust your W? If not, maybe you picked the wrong person?******
Dying alone
***Possible if your second W dies first, but you most likely still have your kids****
Finding a woman who is crazy, diseased or harmful to the kids if I d.
*****Thats 100% on you*******
Finding someone I love and going through this again at the 5-10 year itch
*** that you can't control but you can control how you show up which will lessen the chances of that happening again***
Finding someone, then have W want to reconcile
****Cross that bridge when you come to it******
Going months on end with no physical contact
**** I love women as much as anyone and I have gone months with out physical. You won't shrivel up and die***
Living with parents or in a small apartment with no ownership
****Maybe temporarily but you will own a house again******
As Captain America says, I could go all day.
It's not uncommon to have these fears. Most people stay in bad marriages because these fears. You can truly have any kind of life that you want if you are willing to work for it. Pursuit will get you divorced. Time, space, working on yourself gives you a chance.
Thank you for the responses yesterday. I started an R chat yesterday, trying to get transparency on what happened previously while also voicing how I've felt. Stupid in my book now that i look back. I read up on piecing elsewhere where they talk about going through the past hurts and clearing the air. The more I reflect, the more I see DB rules and advice have been superior thus far.
I believe I almost pushed W back to saying we should end it. I switched subjects but I also despise how D is used as a weapon against me for control. If we repair, would she always threaten to leave....maybe. I find it disrespectful yet we are or said we were working on respect.
I'm back in limbo, maybe worse off than a month or two ago. Follow the rules.
I cant find the same patience and strength many of you have. How in times like this did you pull together so much patience? We've now had 3 chats that were not productive since our reconcile chat. I'm scared to be honest. I hurt almost as much as 3 weeks after BD. Its almost like she asked for D all over again.
I still dont think she wants the D, at least not 100 percent. How can the WW not see how much damage they are causing. Even with counseling, I can see myself getting PTSD over this.
Change your mindset from weak and negative to strong and positive. Quit letting people's words control you.
Core -
The more I pursued, the farther away WAW got. I did it for 6 months before I found DB. I stopped all pursuit about 11 months ago now.
It still took another 6 months after I stopped pursuit for WAW to pause, to stop talking S and D and getting rid of the house - to change her mind just a LITTLE.
You can keep pursuing and push W right away from you. Or you can pause, reassess, and figure out what it is you want out of life.
My advice? Slow down.
Pretend like you are taking life at 1/10th speed.
Get very quiet. Act more, talk way less - think Clint Eastwood. Practice making decisions for yourself. Take care of yourself. Control yourself.
Do these things for yourself - not to have an impact on your W or your MR. Do it in order to work on how patient you can be. To build your strength, for YOU. Not for W.
R chats will do you no good right now. Unless you enjoy pain and suffering for no reason. I kinda think you don't, judging from your posts here.
Worrying about recon is for the future, not now.
You CAN do this.
Stay strong
I hope I didn’t come off sounding mean.
My general point is, your list seems as is you can’t handle yourself or kids without the wife. I think you most certainly can. And knowing that will put you in a place of power. Until you realize that, she will have the upper hand and not gain respect for you.
You have to believe you can care for yourself and your children without her. Physically and emotionally.
I hope I didn’t come off sounding mean.
My general point is, your list seems as is you can’t handle yourself or kids without the wife. I think you most certainly can. And knowing that will put you in a place of power. Until you realize that, she will have the upper hand and not gain respect for you.
You have to believe you can care for yourself and your children without her. Physically and emotionally.
Ginger, no worries whatsoever, I thank you for the insights and don't think it sounded mean. I want the 2x4s. Any indirect talk leaves people to fill in the blanks. Much better with the directness.
Ovr, Green, LH, Jac, Hallzy and Iron - you're right, still plenty of work to do. Plenty of what you wrote got through, I hope it sticks. I come back to reread often but sometimes when youre in different emotional states, we absorb info very differently. I've two ropes to let go off, my attachment, and control. Both not easy, I do see why couples try separation by being in different homes. I've seen myself repeat a few times already on this board.
W talked to me a few times this weekend, mostly business. A bit about our friends and family as well. She brought up gifts for an upcoming family bday and was asking about family passes to our local kids complex and a fun center. Also brought up us not spending alot now, so we can get kids gifts around easter. Her tone most of the time is way more gentle than the last three months. I don't think im reading much in to it as I still have bad vibes over the whole sitch. Stating it all here in case this is a normal pattern in a bad or good direction.
A few dats ago, W told me when I'm home, it feels like her commander is home. Definitely a sign of my control however I've also tried to undo that thinking at least a year before BD. A few mistakes entrenched a pattern which I can control. The pattern on my end has been broke for quite some time.
Ws car is having some electrical issues...Im supposed to detach and not pursue so is the recommendation is for W to take care of it?
I certainly no longer feel like we're doing any kind of piecing however if we truly are, shouldnt the H take the lead, get vulnerable and take action as the family leader? Would fixing the car come off as pursuing? I know mechanics would more likely lie to her for more money.
As W asked for time, I feel like she is pressuring herself to stay in the M. I told her Im ok either way however I want time as well. We said we are working on the M (previously, not new) and she said she isn't backing out of reconciliation but wants that time. Believe none of what they say I know. My question, should I say I want time or space to take the pressure off her? If she is serious about piecing however then I'd be communicating to her that I have one foot out the door. She has stated that she's felt I wad ready to leave the M for years. Not true but its how she feels at this time.
If she asks you to help out with her car you can make that decision...but do it with no expectations of anything.
I don't think you need to have a talk with her. She's asked for the space so just show her by your actions that you're listening to her. If she asks down the road why you seem to be distant you can tell her you were just giving her the space that she asked for. And then listen...and validate when appropriate.
From my personal experience...the less talking the better. We've been separated now for just about a year and it's only been in the last couple months that things have significantly improved and it looks like there is a path back to a better Marriage. BUT...she's still not moving back in as she still has lots of work to do on herself.
Be patient...be the lighthouse and let her see the changes you are making, especially from the control standpoint.
Core, I agree with Jac. If she thinks you're controlling then the best play here would be to ask her if she would like your assistance and let it be her choice. My XW wanted to do things herself and be more independent after BD. And she's still like that all these years later. But at times it's just beyond her abilities (she has arthritis). Just a couple of weeks ago she asked for help with her washing machine. She had done all the research and knew what was wrong with it and what parts to order, but couldn't take it apart herself. I'll help her when she asks, and I'll sometimes offer if she mentions something she needs to do. But I always make sure it's HER choice rather than just jumping in and doing it like I used to.
Those of you that reconciled, do you regret it? I'm recalling more of my past and remember more and more of the bad times. Was it worth it to you to go through all this?
I sense W is gaining some respect and I do see more is needed if I were to be happy. We split time in the MBR. Wondering if I should take it back. We're on good terms however I don't yet see us piecing unless its a very slow process. What are thoughts on taking the MBR back permanently now that W said she wants to reconcile, whether she meant it or not. Being a nice guy, what are other ways to get more respect here? Overall I think W is the only person who disrespects me. Really makes me wonder if my NG behaviors are that bad. I'd be disrespected left and right if that was the case.
A recap, we agreed to reconcile then W asked for time/space to process her feelings. I've upped my GAL. We talk way more, and are connecting ever so slightly. No counseling or future plans together. I think I've been controlled and placated or am I over thinking it and I should give more time?
C,
You’re not reconciling if she’s asking for time and space. I would give it more time and focus on yourself and the children. Start to think about what kind of life you would like to have for you and the kids. If your W wants to be a part of it great! If she doesn’t that’s ok too.
I saw you posted on Scotty B’s thread so you know this limbo period can go on for a really long time. Ultimately you get to decide in the end how long it lasts.
We split time in the MBR. Wondering if I should take it back. We're on good terms...What are thoughts on taking the MBR back permanently
Is this arrangement working for YOU? If it is not, then "I decided I am sleeping in MBR every-night. She is free to sleep where she wants"
Those of you that reconciled, do you regret it? I'm recalling more of my past and remember more and more of the bad times. Was it worth it to you to go through all this?
Core - caveat, I have not reconciled with W, I have been in IHS for 11 months now, it's been 17 months since BD1 for me.
I caution you against rewriting the past. WAS and LBS both tend to rewrite the past in an effort to justify what they are doing and feeling. You are going to be angry, sad, frustrated, etc. And you're going to want to see things that happen in the past and try to make sense of them and how they relate to what you are going through now, telling yourself it was never that great, or you should have seen it sooner.
Don't do that.
It is completely natural for your brain to try to solve a problem, that's what it is designed to do. So if you tell yourself "bad things happened all the time in my marriage", your brain will search for those bad things and line them all up together, in an effort to solve that "problem" and generate a simple solution for you that "ends the pain right now".
Generally speaking, people don't stay in marriages that are bad for that long of a time if things were really that bad. Life has many ups and downs, really bad moments, and really great moments. The WAS has chosen to see only the bad moments.
It is up to the LBS to decide what he or she wants to see. I would recommend to keep your good memories equally as much as the bad.
I sense W is gaining some respect and I do see more is needed if I were to be happy. We split time in the MBR. Wondering if I should take it back. We're on good terms however I don't yet see us piecing unless its a very slow process. What are thoughts on taking the MBR back permanently now that W said she wants to reconcile, whether she meant it or not. Being a nice guy, what are other ways to get more respect here? Overall I think W is the only person who disrespects me. Really makes me wonder if my NG behaviors are that bad. I'd be disrespected left and right if that was the case.
A recap, we agreed to reconcile then W asked for time/space to process her feelings. I've upped my GAL. We talk way more, and are connecting ever so slightly. No counseling or future plans together. I think I've been controlled and placated or am I over thinking it and I should give more time?
In short - more time and space.
I'm going to go against the grain here with the MBR business, because it became very clear to me that the MBR did not matter in my sit. Everyone's situation is different. This is how mine was different from everyone else's.
Neither of the bedrooms in the house were nice, W and I are poor. I always spent a lot of time working on my own projects in the other BR before BD - for over a decade. When BD happened W wanted to take that over and start rearranging everything in the house to suit her wishes. I shut that down really quick - standing up for myself and telling her that no, i would not accept that. I was not about to lose my work space and have all the house turned upside down simply because she wanted out of the R. She was very angry about it but I stood my ground.
I realize this is in the minority of situations here on the forum, and some people would frown on what I did and how I did it. That's fine, they can say what they want, I really don't care.
But I have a clear conscience about what I did, and i actually gained some respect back from W for telling her that no, nothing was to be moved because she wanted a new life.
Anyway I think mine is an example of what they say here - "do what works". Every sit is unique, despite having many similar characteristics.
I would advise you to determine where you can earn areas of respect back from W. Maybe it is taking back the MBR, maybe it isn't. I don't know your sit other than reading words on a screen. I would advise testing out areas where you think you can get respect back.
Take care, Core - stay strong
R2C, funny thing is, I like the smaller bedroom. Mattress is newer and more comfortable...maybe I take that room however I dont want to lose respect or look like I'm placating.
Excellent feedback IW, thank you. I do see how the LBS can become the WAS. I fight against it daily. Hard when none of my needs are considered and havent been for a long time.
Im afraid I will despise her for doing this and ruining the best years of my kids lives. They are in the magic years. The wonder years and she has to disrupt it all. I had my part however I did a lot to prevent this. I tried hard to fix us before BD. All these old resentments shes brought up, she's never communicated about. Believe none of what they say, I remind myself but some of this could truly be why we distanced. I cant mind read.
Onward and upward, Im happy to have two loving kids.
Those of you that reconciled, do you regret it?
I didn't recon but have certainly read plenty of sitches here written by people who did. Steve's is a great example of the emotions most people go through after recon. He's been through a lot of ups and downs since reconciling, sometimes happy he did and sometimes wondering if he should have. If you ask him if he regrets it I would imagine his response would be "sometimes". It's a roller coaster. But overall I think he's happy he did, and that seems to be pretty typical as well.
Those of you that reconciled, do you regret it? I'm recalling more of my past and remember more and more of the bad times. Was it worth it to you to go through all this?
Regret is maybe the wrong word... Don't get me wrong, my MR right now is in most ways stronger and better than it has ever been-- more open, more cooperative, more intimate (and not just sex, there's alot more to intimacy than sex.. in fact the greater portion of intimacy, imho, is stuff
other than sex), etc. That said... after a trauma like infidelity and separation or near divorce or, even in some cases, actual divorce, a MR can never be exactly the same again. Some of that pain and hurt and experience is always going to be there-- it becomes part of your history and who you are and what your MR is. I myself have posted about my struggles in getting past that betrayal and hurt (and that's in a situation where I am pretty sure my W did not actually sleep with her AP!) Yes, the resolution of that can lead to very good stuff ultimately-- renewal of the marriage, increased intimacy, etc, but there is also some hard stuff. As others have posted here a MR is deliberate, intentional-- it takes continual work. It;s not like having a new GF or BF where your gut is full of butterflies and you can't keep your hands off each other and every moment is that limerance-soaked bliss, nor, even, is it like being newlyweds. Because those "feelings" always wear off. In the end, love is a choice... it's something you choose to show your spouse, and by the same token it takes intentionality to keep a MR fresh, and loving, and joyful... and that can be hard when you have that history of hurt to overcome. It (the hurt) does diminish over time, but i am told it usually never is gone completely. The trick is to learn to forgive, to not hang on to the resentment, to not let those feelings poison your MR. That is something i have struggled with a bit, but i am getting better (especially with the help of my IC/MC, who is
The Bomb.)
Also, once you start GAL-ing and 180-ing in earnest, and really start seeing the results in terms of self-fulfillment and mindset, returning to the MR can be a bit of come-down if you are not careful. For me, fitness and faith (I started attending and become actively involved in a new church amongst other things) were the cornerstones of my GAL. I also spent a great deal of time reconnecting with friends with whom i had lost touch, and socializing as much as my schedule would allow. At some point a couple of months into reconciliation, I was having one of my crises of conscience/mindset/whatever... I had gone back to attending church with my W at her church, wasn't exercising quite as much, was spending by necessity less time with friends (time spent now with W socially) and, also, was noticing my head being turned just a bit by attractive women who seemed interested in me (no more than that, just "noticing"). At any rate, I had a weekend visiting my best friend while W was away visiting her Sister on the opposite coast, and we were talking and I mentioned some of the above, including my concern that i shouldn't even be looking at other women and what that said about me, etc.) and at one point he asked me "Are you happy about getting back together?" My answer was "Yes, of course"... "But at the same time, during that period before i thought we were reconciling (recall i had a couple of false starts)... it sucked, and I wouldn't want to necessarily go through that again, but in some ways I never felt more alive." And that, I think, in essence, sums up one of the great challenges of reconciling and, indeed, of being married at all. There is some talk of this recently in Steve85's thread, but the essence of it is that you never want to stop your GAL-ing and looking for constructive ways to 180, even after you have R-d. You always want to feel fully alive... don't ever get complacent and lose that. Of course, that also is not the "easy" way out, and takes intentionality and work.
All of this is one of the reasons that healthy
detachment and self-improvement and self-reflection are so important to DBing, imho-- Embarking on piecing/reconciiation is not not and should not be just about the wayward or walk-away spouse doing work on themselves, seeking forgiveness, and coming back to the MR-- it is equally important for the LBS to do their own work, become the best version of themselves they can be and, in the end, figure out what this new person they have become
really wants. And it is similarly important to maintain that self-improvement and constantly be looking for ways to make yourself, and your MR, the best it can be.
Hope this helps.
I sense W is gaining some respect and I do see more is needed if I were to be happy. We split time in the MBR. Wondering if I should take it back. We're on good terms however I don't yet see us piecing unless its a very slow process. What are thoughts on taking the MBR back permanently now that W said she wants to reconcile, whether she meant it or not.
I never voluntarily left the MBR in my sitch. I am sympathetic to the notion that there may be extenuating circumstances, such as the workspace scenario someone else posted here, but, by and large, I think the LBH, if he is truly interested in saving the MR, has to stake his claim to both the marital BR and marital home. In my own case, the situation was a LITTLE grayer in that our MBR bed/matress SUCKED. The one in the guest room was much more comfortable and both W and I suffer from back/neck symptoms. As such, the MBR was not always necessarily the more desirable sleeping spot, and sometimes we still go over to the guest room to sleep. That said, the "HQ" of the house was CLEARLY the MBR, and when push came to shove and I started setting boundaries I made it clear that I would be sleeping in the MBR. I cannot over-emphasize how crucial it is to gain back a woman's respect if you are going to gain back her love-- Sandi2 and others have written here in detail on this and a woman simply cannot feel romantically attracted to a man she does not respect. Running away and hiding in another BR of the house when she starts having an A is NOT the way to gain that respect.
Being a nice guy, what are other ways to get more respect here? Overall I think W is the only person who disrespects me. Really makes me wonder if my NG behaviors are that bad. I'd be disrespected left and right if that was the case.
Do not confuse lack of vitriol from your W with "respect." She can lack respect for you and still behave civilly towards you in your interactions. In fact, one of my W's "tells" that she was contacting or had just contacted or was preparing to go see "OM" was that she would start treating my much nicer and more solicitously. Remember,the opposite of love is not "hate"... it is "indifference."
Also, until you are at "piecing" you should believe nothing that she says and only 50% of what she does.
HJ thank you very much for the response. Exactly the type of response I was looking for to help process whats going on and determine a path forward.
So all, I'm in a pickle and maybe its something new here. W and I had to talk about money, school etc after I got home from work. I felt I had to get in to relationship chat in a way, which yes, I did start. So we planned out about 7 years worth of our finacial future, my job change etc and it all involved living together...ok so that seems like it could be good towards a reconcile if. I asked if she wanted more space to think about our future. She said yes however we still did some talking. She essentially wants to stay living together because of finances and for the kids, at this time wants more time to think about the marriage. If this is all true then she is thinking about 10-20 plus years of limbo? It all seemed honest, genuine and thought through. I have no clue now what to do. I dont think she wants to reconcile, and we both are kind of forced due to finances. This is no way for us to live. Should I be thankful for the time here to DB or should I rip off the band aid? Seems only a matter of time before one of us would stray. Something I cant fathom myself doing yet I cant image years without a womans love and touch.
She brought up a few of my past wrongs which were all legit, I validated, apologised where it was owed and countered a few times. I wasn't a monster but I do see why shes so hurt. She never knew how highly I thought of her. I miss her emotionally, spiritually and physically. I cant believe how hurt she is and has been. Even though I've done little to purposely hurt her, she got hurt nonetheless and I could've protected her or prevented it. Things I could all forgive as it wasnt purposeful but as a WAW, I dont know if she'll let it go.
This is wonderful for the kids, yet sounds like a long suffering for both W and I. Help!!
C,
You have to remember that this is how she feels today. She can certainly change her mind in the future. You’ve been given the gift of time to become an AMOAFWL. If she walks then it’s her loss. I suggest you take this time to work on yourself and decide what kind of life you want for you and the kids in the future.
Good point LH. Back to the basics. Feelings can change at anytime.
HJ I reread your response again, its sets up some great expectations for if things do happen to come around.
Not what I envisioned life to be yet it could be worse, I have so much to be thankful for yet I focus on what is lost.
Reminds me of Machs posts which I got to reread again.
hoosjim, what a great post this was for me to read. I´ve been enjoying my new life so much now and the freedom that I have these days so I´ve often wondered how it would feel to R with my W. I really needed to read a post like yours to put things in perspective
You're breaking all the rules, ignoring the parts of your reality that don't suit you, and falling under the illusion of action.
It doesn't appear she is being truthful or open with you.
You're in no more of a pickle today than a week ago.
You felt like a R talk is necessary? You ever see a hot chick when you're out and about and you feel like having sex with them? "I feel like" doesn't mean "I should".
I've made these same mistakes as you, it's all documented here. I understand the pain, just remember that pain is a feeling, you control your feelings, and you are whatever you choose to be. Mind over matter.
Thanks for the response Ovr.
I have no clue if we're on the mend or not after our reconciliation chat.
She is kinder, respectful and has shown interest in doing things as a family. She also says when were alone, without the kids around that we have nothing to talk about. Not true however other than talking about the relationship and kids, she's right. There is little I want to talk to her about.
I met up with a older friend this weekend who talked about their parents marriage and how horrible the H was yet they never divorced and made it work. It made me so angry. I did very little wrong. In fact, W states that she wasnt my focus, and that I did things for me and not her. Per DB rules and the alpha stuff I've read, thats how I should've acted so I dont get it. What was I supposed to do and what am I supposed to do?
We legit talked about living together for the next few years but no real talk about our relationship. Why live like that? Whats so hard about working through your own feelings, seeing that your H loved you with all his heart this whole time and restoring a family? Just because I wasnt perfect, made mistakes and didnt meet all expectations, this is the life she wants? How is 5 months time not enough space?
No one in my family deserves this. I gave emotional connection all these years, I tried to give physical affection yet at times, TV was too important to stop for a kiss. I gave love, not just thinking about what I would get back. I feel like minus my anxiety, I was a good and normal husband, I loved myself, my wife and my family. I'm tired of this limbo.
The only thing that shows you are on the mend is time. Consistent behavior over a long period of time. Just like anything else, when it come to R, words are empty without action.
C,
Sounds like your wife is calling you selfish. An alpha is not selfish and being selfish isn’t part of DB either.
Also google anxious and avoidant couples. Not a good combination.
You better fasten your seatbelt because you are in for a long bumpy journey my friend.
Well LH, I think you spotted the cause. After some reading, the anxious and avoidant combination looks like my M. I hope thats not the case. Going to talk to my IC. Really though we fit it pretty much to the T.
So if its true, neither spouse is ever really happy. If its true, Im likely to find another avoidant and her another anxious, leading to more divorces and turmoil for the kids. F. Even if we work this out and I can deal with what she did, its likely to recurr unless she seeks help which looks doubtful. F.
I think for myself and my family, I need to ask for the divorce. F. This is so sad.
When you stop analyzing every little thing and start living with the reality of your situation, this tide will begin to turn. I know this is tough, I've been there.
I see that you are still basing your state of mind off of hers, your happiness off of hers, still believing every word she speaks. Why is that?
OR......... you can do the work to not be anxious and become confident and secure and then eventually way down the line you can make the decision on whether you want to continue a marriage with an avoidant. My guess is that if you become that man she may be willing to make changes too.
She also says when were alone, without the kids around that we have nothing to talk about. Not true however other than talking about the relationship and kids, she's right. There is little I want to talk to her about.
This is not uncommon, especially in a badly damaged relationship where intimacy has been lost.
Intimacy does not return overnight, or by itself. It takes commitment, and work, and intentionality.
But none of that can happen, of course, unless and until a) both parties are committed to the MR (which by definition CANNOT happen if either party is in an affair-- either emotional of physical) and b) both parties have at least begun to and, hopefully, made some real progress on addressing their individual issues (in your case 180s and GALs). I would add that it is unlikely that your W will be ready to "commit" to the MR before respect has been restored, you become more attractive to her, and she starts to "miss" you or worry about living life without you.
At any rate, once the initial hurdles are cleared, intimacy CAN be restored via effective MC. The intimacy in my MR was as dead as they come. I mean dead, dead. Not just no sex, but no friendship... nothing. But with the help of an absolutely outstanding MC (and, I am convinced, some divine intervention), we made a comeback.
It's possible. But it takes patience. And work.
hoosjim,
Do you have a link to your sitch? I'd like to know what you did that worked for you.
Quick tip: You can link to user's posts by clicking on their name and then on the following page click on the number next to "total posts."
My sitch was lengthy and not always easy to follow. I came briefly to this forum near the start but didn't go to the proper page (newcomers), quickly gave up, and didn't come back for several weeks. I tried to make it easier for folks by summarizing at the beginning of each new thread, but these ended up getting pretty lengthy. There were/are 16 or 17 threads in all.
This is probably the meat of it:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2756128&#Post2756128And this the beginning, if you are so inclined. It
is kind of interesting to see the change in demeanor from then to now. Alot of important stuff happened during that several week gap, though, that doesn't show up in real time:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...ain=60292&Number=2729896#Post2729896
Thanks for the support Ovr, LH and HJ. It's unfathomably difficult to stay positive in this. Seeing the feedback helped today. Hard to become more secure while facing my sitch everyday.
Reading more on attachments, it appears my W is Disorganized. Makes sense with what she's been through and has said to me. If I'm not secure myself, she has little chance to heal. Our relationship is not healthy. I wonder the impact on the kids.
This make DBing harder...if she is disorganised, it seems me being home and stable could help her along with showing signs of caring. I wonder if DB techniques work for this type.
I'm getting hit with feeling alone this week. All my friends, coworkers all talk to their wives, are taking vacations and mine has forgotten she has a wedding ring and a husband who does more than bring in money. All these couples happily exercising at the gym and my W is home ignoring that there is a problem.
I guess just journaling here. I should be hopeful as we are talking more, doing things together, right? I still cant tell if its a reconcile or a false start. Making a 5 year plan together, maybe shes saying shes ready while avoiding the conflict as a disorganized would.
I feel you core. No end in sight.
I don't see how making long term plans means anything right now. I personally would just listen and validate or stand up if something doesn't make sense. Definitely think first though at all times and come back later.
For me it is day to day and hard to make plans while in limbo.
Everything sich is unique though.
C,
First off don’t worry about other couples. My 3 closest married friends are very unhappy in their marriage. One is planning on leaving and the other two are to scared to leave.
You’ll know if your reconciling. If your unsure you are not. Limbo is bad for people with anxiety because your mind will take you to the worst places. Are you practicing meditation?
Take the focus off your W and put it on you and your children.
So if its true, neither spouse is ever really happy. If its true, Im likely to find another avoidant and her another anxious, leading to more divorces and turmoil for the kids.
Hi Core, it doesn't work quite like this. Anxious and Avoidant are roles in a relationship--they are not who you are. "Early patterns of attachment, in turn, shape—but do not determine—the individual's expectations in later relationships." In my last several years of dating, I was the Avoidant in a 5-yr relationship, the Anxious in a 2.5-yr relationship, and now I'm in a new 2-month relationship where I'm not anxious.
I seem to switch styles between relationships. It's like.. okay.. had my fill of (high safety) or (high excitement) for a moment--let's have a bit more of the opposite for a spell.
It's a work in progress, but standing made me less of an anxious or avoidant partner. I'd like to say I'm in the "Secure" range now, but I'll let that sit a bit before deciding.
New Thread:
Patience and Limbo (Core Thread 4)