Hi all, I've been reading here for a while and trying to follow the practices, definitely have had set backs, and as of right now I do feel my marriage is over. I don't want to get to long winded in this first post so I will try to summarize and I hope to start a good conversation with everyone here!
I am 39 and my wife is 29. This is my second marriage, I have an 11 year old son. My wife and I have been together for 5 years, and married for two years. We have no children together.
My wife was head over heals for me from the moment we met, our relationship was great and perhaps moved a bit to fast. Looking back we certainly should have spent more time learning how to communicate with each other. After we got married we did start to grow apart and I really see it was me just not allowing myself to be fully open with her, something she desperately wanted. In the back of my mind I was always afraid of losing her, even though she never showed anything but absolute love towards me. This always had me reserved and basically being the "nice guy" because I never wanted to do anything that would potentially scare her away. In the end that's exactly what I ended up doing.
She did try to communicate this to me, but I always took it the wrong way, like she was attacking me, and it just further solidified my confidence issues with her, to the point where I just started to shutdown. Of course I didn't realize this as it was happening, and when she stopped bringing it up, it was the classic attitude of well, no news is good news.
Then one day the wake up call came, she said she was no longer happy and she was going to stay at her mother's house for a few days to figure herself out. A few days turned into a few weeks. At which point I found out she had met another man. This other man has kids of his own and is married. She has told me this man is separated and his wife is already dating someone else and that his wife knows about the two of them, however they have not filed for a divorce.
It's now been about 3 months, she is fully moved out and still seeing the other man. She has not made the other man public to anyone in our circles. Her family knows she has moved out, but not that she is seeing someone else. To the general "world" we are still are married.
She still communicates with me on occasion, and even though she has said she wants a divorce, she hasn't gone through with any action towards a divorce. This has been hard for me, because when we do speak I just get the feeling she doesn't really want to commit to the divorce. Then it gets hard to follow the DB principles because I feel like I have to do something to save it. Which led to us having a conversation a few days ago.
This last conversation was still very neutral, where it appears she has doubts she is doing the right thing with this new man, and she has doubts she is doing the right thing with a divorce. She has told me she is stuck in all aspects of her life right now and basically just spends her time working, sleeping, or getting drunk. She refers to it as being on auto-pilot and she said she is being self destructive, but right now that makes her happy, very confusing! I did tell her I have been going through counseling to improve myself and she does say she really sees the changes in me. She gets frustrated seeing these changes now because she feels like it is to late for her to be in love with me again. She then said she wishes she hadn't wasted these past 3 months doing nothing and would have worked on herself too. She continues to tell me I am a great husband and she knows what she is giving up, but goes back to the fact that she can't get the loving feeling back for me again because I made her feel so unwanted and hurt. She says she tells me these things because she doesn't want me to think our marriage failing was all my fault and for me to bring that into a future relationship.
At the end of the day, she is still moved out and still seeing this other guy. I love my wife and do not want to end this marriage, but I think I also need to come to terms that I drove her away and it could already be over. Just looking for some advice!
Welcome to Newcomers! I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome posting for you.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D33,S32
Thank you Job!
I wanted to add one more thing about that last conversation we had. We did start to discuss the divorce in more detail, basically how we would split up our assets. This was prompted by me as I told her I can't continue to stay married knowing that she is in another relationship. I did see that this conversation upset her.
It also led into the alternative to divorce, her giving up that relationship and moving back home. We talked about how hard that would be for her as essentially she felt like she would have to intentionally put herself into an uncomfortable situation and be un-happy without knowing if her feelings would turn around. She says she doesn't know if she still has any fight left in her to go through that, and also commented how she would have to earn back my trust. Many roadblocks to her moving back home that as of now it seems like she is leaning more towards the side of not wanting to go through that.
Js, I can't write as much as I'd like right now, but I just want to say that we all have ownership in our intermarital problems. However, intermarital problems never ever ever ever ever justify going extramarital. So own and work on your shortcomings that led to marital issues. But understand that her extramarital activities (moving out, starting an affair) are all on her. Do not excuse her behavior nor justify it. It is inexcusable and unjustified. Period.
I have more to say so I will be back.
Hi Steve85,
Thank you for the words of wisdom, I certainly agree the extramarital activities are not justified. I do not feel I am responsible for that, just for pushing her away in general. I think she understands there would be a lot of work on her part to put this marriage back together, just at this time, I don't think she wants to, or at least she just doesn't know what she wants to do.
Thank you Job!
I wanted to add one more thing about that last conversation we had. We did start to discuss the divorce in more detail, basically how we would split up our assets. This was prompted by me as I told her I can't continue to stay married knowing that she is in another relationship. I did see that this conversation upset her.
It also led into the alternative to divorce, her giving up that relationship and moving back home. We talked about how hard that would be for her as essentially she felt like she would have to intentionally put herself into an uncomfortable situation and be un-happy without knowing if her feelings would turn around. She says she doesn't know if she still has any fight left in her to go through that, and also commented how she would have to earn back my trust. Many roadblocks to her moving back home that as of now it seems like she is leaning more towards the side of not wanting to go through that.
No more talk. Action. Stop discussing divorce, getting back together. #1 rule is DBing: no R talks. If she starts one, listen and validate.
When you are ready, file for D. When will you know even you're ready, you'll know.
As far as what she wants, we have a saying around here. When she wants to come back, you will know. When she doesn't, you will be confused.
That is really good advice, thank you for being direct. No more R talks, understood. I don't feel ready to file, so unless she reaches out to move forward with it I will just remain patient.
I need advice on another situation that has happened recently. I made plans to go out of town for the Holidays and did not inform my wife about them. She found out through information on social media and confronted me about it. She was upset I left without telling her, and her reason was our dog. I mentioned we have no children together, but we do have a dog. It's a dog I brought into the marriage, so I assume it will be coming out of the marriage with me as well. I made perfectly fine arrangements for the dog to be taken care of, but she said she should have been the one to take care of it. I just told her that we are separated and I do not have plans of remaining friends, so from that point of view why would I tell her my plans or ask her to take of the dog. She said because we are still married and made a point to tell me that the house is still part hers as well even though she isn't living there right now. She does continue to contribute the expenses of our home.
The next part of the story is I frequently travel for work, I will be out of town soon and due to how we met we have many common contacts when it comes to my work. She would for sure know I was traveling once I left, and maybe even before. So in that same last conversation I keep referring to (it was a long one) I did tell her I would be out of town and that she could take care of the dog. Looking for critiques on how this was handled and how it should be handled in the future as it will continue to come up. Thank you!
Make plans. Arrange for dog care.
When she calls to protest, listen and validate.
Go back to the post from job above and make sure to do all the reading he linked. Notice that there is a thread on validation. You need to stop getting into back and forth discussions with her. You should listen and validate.
I'd also suggest a moratorium on social media. More newcomers stroke I with social media because of what they see on there from their WAS. Going SM free is highly freeing.
You are in LRT territory. LRT (Last Resort Technique) is simple, but hard:
1. Stop pursuing
2. GAL
3. Wait and see
You need to believe nothing she says and only half of what she does.
Detachment means what she says and does does not control you. Attitude, thoughts, actions, feelings. One after the other.
If she mentions having doubts about the divorce, just listen and validate. You really need to learn this. Spend several hours today learning about this. Prepare.
She still communicates with me on occasion, and even though she has said she wants a divorce, she hasn't gone through with any action towards a divorce. This has been hard for me, because when we do speak I just get the feeling she doesn't really want to commit to the divorce. Then it gets hard to follow the DB principles because I feel like I have to do something to save it. Which led to us having a conversation a few days ago.
Think and act, don't feel and react. Most people here drive their spouse away with the feel and react approach.
The best thing you can do to save it is.....NOTHING.
Now is a time of learning and growth for you. Don't peacock this to your W. She knows you, it will be obvious.
It could be over, it could be saved. We don't know yet. Focus on what you can control.
Detachment means what she says and does does not control you. Attitude, thoughts, actions, feelings. One after the other.
I keep reading those detachment threads. I'll admit this is the hardest part. When I'm out doing things it's hard not to wish she was there enjoying them too, thoughts like that. I know I'm pretty early in this process, 3 months, compared to many of these situations.
I also struggle with thoughts of how if I just changed this little thing, or did this little thing, we would be on a different path now. I get so frustrated with myself for not seeing what was happening until after the fact. That is actually why my username is justremember. Whatever happens moving forward I need to make sure I do not forget to live life in the present and not take things for granted.
Not much new to report, I don't think there will be in my situation, unless my wife decides to move forward with filing the divorce.
I just really miss her, I'm keeping busy, and everyone tells me how happy I seem, but it is hard going to bed in that empty bed.
I know we are supposed to not waste energy on hypothetical situations, but it's hard not to have some hope that I will get a chance to show her I still love and appreciate her.
Hey jst,
Thought I'd chime in to show support. Sorry you're here mate.
Your comments about moving too fast at the beginning and her comms style feeling like attacks struck a chord with me. Running the hypotheticals over and over and over really [censored] the big one doesn't it. Have you tried online guided meditation and breathing exercises?
Listen to Steve and ovrrnbw as they're legends here and will give you good, no bs advice.
Keep posting mate. Maybe add some profile details to the footer such as ages, key dates etc.
Cheers, DS
I just really miss her, I'm keeping busy, and everyone tells me how happy I seem, but it is hard going to bed in that empty bed.
It's awful at first but you get used to it. At first I laid there feeling so lonely, but eventually I learned to enjoy spreading out and taking the whole bed to myself! All these years later I can tell you that I honestly like sleeping by myself now that I'm used to it.
I know we are supposed to not waste energy on hypothetical situations, but it's hard not to have some hope that I will get a chance to show her I still love and appreciate her.
A lot of people here talk about "hope" like it's a bad word and I've never understood that. Hope is powerful, it will get you through the worst of this and help you survive and eventually thrive again. I convinced myself that I would be among the small percentage of people that eventually reconcile. When things looked bleak I just reminded myself of that- I WILL RECONCILE! And that gave me motivation to keep going. The irony is I never did reconcile, but that hope and positive thinking got me to the point where eventually it didn't matter whether I reconciled or not, because I was happy again even without her. So have hope that you will get back together, because as bleak as it seems, you might yet! One thing all the people here who have reconciled have in common is that they all thought it was completely over at some point.
Not much new to report, I don't think there will be in my situation, unless my wife decides to move forward with filing the divorce.
I just really miss her, I'm keeping busy, and everyone tells me how happy I seem, but it is hard going to bed in that empty bed.
I know we are supposed to not waste energy on hypothetical situations, but it's hard not to have some hope that I will get a chance to show her I still love and appreciate her.
js, this is not for you as much as it is for other LBSs that my read it. Because what you are going through is very common. There is an interesting dynamic that I have written extensively about here.......it is that the "grass is always greener".
Those that are IHS think that if their spouse would leave they would have it easier. That detaching is too hard seeing and interacting with their WAS so much.
Those that are physically separated struggle wondering how they'll ever show their WAS how many positive changes they are making.
It is a conundrum.
js, you admit that you are struggling with detachment. So flip this on its head and be thankful for the opportunity to be able to detach without her constant presence tripping you up. I listened to a podcast yesterday about the benefits of finding positives in whatever your situation is. So spend some time on that. Things like:
- I am so fortunate to have custody of the dogs
- I am so fortunate to be in good health
- It is a blessing that I can financially support myself
Etc.
Sit down every morning and think of 10 things to be thankful for. You'd be amazed at what that daily exercise can do for your mental and emotional well-being!
Thanks you DS, AnotherStander, and Steve, I have to say reading all your posts has really helped me today!
So we did already arrange for her to watch take care of our dog while I was away before I posted and got Steve’s advice. Moving forward that is how I’ll handle it, but this was already done and planned so I just left it alone.
Anyway, I know it doesn’t mean anything, but I do like hearing from her. She reached out to let me know all is well and to have a fun trip. Just thanked her and left it at that.
Anyway, I know it doesn’t mean anything, but I do like hearing from her. She reached out to let me know all is well and to have a fun trip. Just thanked her and left it at that.
js, this is fool's gold. You are in the friend zone. If you want to be friends with her, then congratulations, you are there. If you want to be her H, then you shouldn't settle for these breadcrumbs.
We advise most LBSs in situations similar to yours to not be overly responsive.
When she texts you, informational texts do not get a response. "All is well, have a fun trip!" That doesn't require a response or even an acknowledgement.
If she texts you a question, answer her but on your time. (IE not always right away.) Answer her in as few words as possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers.
If she asks you "Why does it take you so long to respond." A simple, "I am busy." Is all that you need to respond with.
Your sitch is one of the ones that you need to be practicing the LRT. That means DO NOT initiate contact with her. When she initiates contact, you adhere to the rules above.
Or you can ignore all of this and settle for being her friend.
Understood Steve, yeah don't want to settle for being a friend...
As of today I know she is still seeing the other man, thought maybe it had stopped, but it hasn't. She continues to hide it from her family and most of her friends. I guess I have a hard time understanding, if she wants to be with him then why doesn't she just be with him? I guess I just don't operate like that so it's hard for me to understand.
Maybe they have to keep a secret because of something on his end, I guess I don't know, and I should really just stop thinking about it.
Some of you guys are very strong to be able to continue in a situation like this, not sure how long I can wait it out.
Js, there are no rules saying that you can't end it. You can anytime you are ready. My only advice on that is to do it, not say it. Many LBSs want to sit down the WAS and have "the talk". That's the illusion of action. Words are just words.
When you are ready to end it, you go file for D and s have her served. Stop hiding the situation and let people (on your side not hers) know that you guys are getting a D. And start moving on with your life (actually you should already be done this last one!).
My sitch was relatively short. With my lack of patience I probably would have filed at about the 6 month mark. It never came to that but I'm no where as strong as others!
if I’m honest with myself, I’m not ready. Which means it will end up being all talk and no action because I won’t go through with it. This stuff is really hard, I know I probably keep asking the same questions but I am really trying to understand.
So, if I don’t start a divorce because I’m not ready, doesn’t that make me a doormat? I’m just waiting it out hoping she comes around and sees how I am changing? I really struggle with this, I really do love her, I see where I was checked out in this marriage and get frustrated with myself. That gives me the power to forgive her if she wanted to come back to the marriage. Then the next minute my thoughts turn around to well if she chose to stray from our marriage and not try to work with me, then I should just end it, especially since she continues to just be with the other man.
Also I’ve been thinking about LRT with respect to detachment and specifically trying to detach to the point where you can respond with love and not anger. I have been thinking more about what Steve said about not even acknowledging messages that don’t require a response. I want to understand, is that because the situation I am in is just beyond even detachment. I am past the point of the 37 rules that are referred here quite often? It just seems so cold to not respond or have such short answers. Please understand I am not disagreeing with the methods, just trying to understand so I can better apply them. Thank you!
js, a lot of LBS struggle with this stuff. Yours truly did as well. What I can tell you is that, while these are no guarantee because a WAS is going to do what they want, these DBing techniques that MWD advocates have worked in other situations. It is counter-intuitive, so it scares LBS into thinking they are going to push their WAS away. Or upset them. Or double down on the behavior that got them there.
But think about it logically. She left and wants out. She has essentially told you "I want less of you". And your response to that is to try to give her more of you? Doesn't make sense. You are giving her what she doesn't want. Have you ever told someone you didn't want something to eat, maybe a piece of cake or something? And they insisted. It annoyed you didn't it?
The LRT IS detachment. It is like the ultimate version of detachment. The not responding to messages that does not require a response is simply giving her less of you....like she has asked you to!
Have you read DR? DR goes into a pretty lengthy explanation of what circumstances suggest it is time to go LRT. I believe your sitch is there. Don't take my word for it, read about LRT in DR and see for yourself.
Hang in there man, you are going to be fine no matter what the outcome is.
I have read and agree it certainly applies. I have stopped any initiating of any conversation for sure. I just needed some help understanding the interaction aspect.
I really like your example Steve!
Keep on posting. js! We are here to help and support.
Thank you!!
I am really trying to use your advice about thinking of the positives each morning. I struggle with that feeling where she is already happy in this new relationship, having someone else, having sex, all of that and I do not. So I need to remember that I have so many positives in my life, and a relationship is not the only thing that can make someone happy. I do miss closeness with my wife though, hard not to.
Yep, js. We human creatures are funny in that we can be so focused on what we don't have that we don't appreciate what we do.
It is like the dog with a bone, that stops on top of a bridge and looks down in the water. What does he see? A dog with a bone staring back up at him! He wants the bone that the other dog has so he drops his bone into the water. The splash of the bone makes the other dog with his bone disappear. The sad dog on the bridge now has no bone...........
if I’m honest with myself, I’m not ready. Which means it will end up being all talk and no action because I won’t go through with it. This stuff is really hard, I know I probably keep asking the same questions but I am really trying to understand.
So, if I don’t start a divorce because I’m not ready, doesn’t that make me a doormat? I’m just waiting it out hoping she comes around and sees how I am changing? I really struggle with this, I really do love her, I see where I was checked out in this marriage and get frustrated with myself. That gives me the power to forgive her if she wanted to come back to the marriage. Then the next minute my thoughts turn around to well if she chose to stray from our marriage and not try to work with me, then I should just end it, especially since she continues to just be with the other man.
Also I’ve been thinking about LRT with respect to detachment and specifically trying to detach to the point where you can respond with love and not anger. I have been thinking more about what Steve said about not even acknowledging messages that don’t require a response. I want to understand, is that because the situation I am in is just beyond even detachment. I am past the point of the 37 rules that are referred here quite often? It just seems so cold to not respond or have such short answers. Please understand I am not disagreeing with the methods, just trying to understand so I can better apply them. Thank you!
Hey, js…
If you're not ready to file for D, then by all means don't. Like Steve said, you'll know when you need to. Right now, I think you best option is to stand and wait. See how things play out for a while. With time you'll know whether or not you're ready to file. Emotions are high right now, Let them cool off...
I also agree with not answering to texts and keeping things short and to the point when you have to reply. This is for 2 reasons. First, it will help with your detachment and keep you from getting caught up in wondering what she is doing and gobbling up any crumbs she throws your way. A lot of times those little "have a fun trip" or "hope you're doing well" texts are temp checks. She's looking for a response from you to see if she still has control. And be ready. When you stop responding to these types of texts, she's going to question why. Again, keep it short and simple. Remember, she fired you as her husband and she isn't your mom, so you don't have to answer to her. Things you do that do not involve her are none of her business. You mentioned earlier that when she sends those little messages, you like hearing from her. If you were truly detached, you wouldn't care if she texted you or not. I know, easier said than done, but it will make sense when you get there...
Second, by not replying to texts it gives her a chance to realize what she's missing. She doesn't want you as a husband and you don't want her as a friend, so what's the point of pleasant chit chat. Right now, you're plan B. She wants you to be waiting for her when things with OM don't work out. She needs to feel like she is losing you. When you stop responding to her, it's going to rattle her cage and she's not going to like it one bit. By all means, be consistent. Once she starts to feel like she's losing you, she's going to throw you some crumbs and temp check. Most LBS's gobble up the crumbs. This lets her know that she still has you on the hook and things go right back to where they were before. Don't fall for it. Make her wonder where you're at, what you're doing, and who you're with. Make her miss you by not being readily available like you were in the past...
js,
If you aren't ready to file and things are okay financially, then wait a bit longer. However, like we say around here, you will know when the time is right to file.
Do not be so readily available to her. If she texts, emails or phones, wait a bit before responding and if she asks why you didn't respond right way, just say "I was busy". You do not need to go into a lengthy explanation as to why you were busy. Heck, you could have been eating dinner...but she doesn't need to know that.
Continue to work on you, keep the focus on you and your family. You can do this!
Thanks all! I’m ok financially and actually right now she is still paying her parts of the bills.
I will continue to just be patient for now and live my life! My son will be back next week so I always have that to look forward to. (He is with his mom every other week)
Hi all, just asking for a little advice regarding social media. In a previous post Steve mentioned just staying off of it, which for the most part I have. My wife used to be an avid social media poster, but now posts nothing, so not much to see anyway.
Typically after a trip I would put up a few pics for my family to see, etc. I'm not a big social media guy anyway, just put pics up here and there for the family. Now if I were to do this, my wife would most likely see them.
As I'm typing this, the fact that I even care what her reaction is, shows I'm still having trouble with the detachment. Good to type this stuff out sometimes!
Anyway, probably best to just stay off it and post nothing right? Thanks! I think I may have answered my own question...
Mystery is your friend. Be mysterious. Get her curious.
Well, she reached out and wants to get together to talk when I don't have my son. I'm going to assume it's probably not a good talk...
Any advice how to respond? Just schedule the meeting and see what happens?
Listen......and validate.
Hi all,
We will be meeting this week.
Just to recap the timeline a bit, September is when she really went cold. I knew deep down there was something wrong before that, but we were still a pretty happy couple at that point, just something was certainly missing. I know from working on myself that a big part of it was me shutting down emotionally and trying to just hope our intimacy issues would just pass (and not just sex, just overall closeness with each other).
She moved out mid October, was told just for a few days, but that turned into weeks. We still kept in touch, and really still were getting together quite often, but it was strained and she did not want any intimate contact beyond the occasional hug or kiss. Then mid November I found out she had met someone else in September. I did the wrong things at that point, trying to convince her to drop him and work on our marriage, weekend after Thanksgiving she completely moved out, before it was sort of a temporary thing, now all her things are gone.
After that contact went way down, still had occasional phone conversations and texting. Certainly got the feeling she wasn't convinced divorce was what she wanted, but she also didn't show any signs of wanting to work on our marriage either. That glimmer of hope continued to drive me to do the wrong things as far as DB goes. We had one last big conversation that I felt went well, however may of just been my hopeful perspective.
I found this forum after that. As far as GAL, I already have a fulfilling life, plenty of friends, etc. So I feel like I'm ok in that department. My issues are more with being close and opening up about my feelings and not being afraid to tell people what I think. I've seen recommendations for the book no more mr nice guy in other threads so I have started to read that and a lot of those behaviors I see in myself.
I was not good at the no pursuit for sure, however I have left her alone now. It's essentially been around 20 days of no contact, except for a couple of messages back and forth regarding our dog.
I'm just sort of having a rough day today. I'm also having trouble with detachment. When I'm out doing things, I wish she was there enjoying it with me. I create these scenarios in my head where I'm going to get some text that says she misses me, and then when it doesn't happen I get down on myself.
With this meeting coming up soon, and the fact that she has not reached out at all, except to set up this meeting, I'm pretty sure she is finally going to present divorce papers. Steve85 mentioned to listen and validate. I have been reading through that validation thread over and over, but I just feel like I'm going to do or say something I don't want to say.
I don't want this divorce, do I just keep that to myself? How do I validate her wanting a divorce but make it clear I want to work on this marriage? Do I just need to look at reality and realize the marriage is over and stop thinking there is this imaginary chance to work on it? I'm just not convinced she is actually happy, I think she is living in the moment. I've read a lot about limerence and that certainly seems to apply in this situation. Although, again maybe wishful thinking, because that is something that has hope to end. Maybe what she has with this new person is what she wants and it will never end.
I'm struggling with patience, I know many situations have gone much longer this, is 20 days without really talking even a big deal? Still way to early for anything signficant to have happened?
If she does present divorce papers, is there anything in particular I should do at that point? I sent her home with the paperwork the last time we talked. So assuming she has taken the time to understand it and filled it out and I'm happy with it, do I just move forward and sign it, do I try to delay things? Should I even be worried about this yet since it hasn't actually happened?
I'm sorry, I feel like I rambled on a bit today, just having a bit of rough day, I guess I was hoping for some sign that maybe she didn't want to do what she is doing, and not getting that sign has been rough.
Thanks for taking the time to read this!
J,
Let her know once that a d is not what you want but you won’t stand in her way.
Take the papers to your lawyer.
You will probably get those I miss you texts just not in the timeframe you’re looking for right now.
I filed for D when I found out about the OW. Take the papers to an attorney and show her that you are strong and that you are no ones plan B. Oh and these cheaters blame everything on the LBS to justify their crappy behavior. Don’t fall for it. An honorable person would divorce first then date.
kas99, I agree, not very honorable to start a new relationship while you are married. Although, she has never been mean to me, and I'm fairly confident she had a one time thing in September with him, then never saw him again until October and that is when she moved out. Not that it makes it any better at all, but it appears once she decided to keep seeing him she cut it off with me. She doesn't put all the blame on me either. I look back at things myself and can see how I really did push her away. We both had major communication issues. For her, she is done now, for me I'm thinking we can build a stronger relationship coming out the other side of this. However, that is assuming she has done any work on herself, not sure where she is at now. The affair, if it's still happening is still not public, so I really don't know if she is still with him or not, just that she hasn't made any attempt to be with me.
LH19, I don't have a lawyer. This is actually my second marriage. My first marriage the divorce was completed with no lawyers and we had a child together, and it all went well. This time around we just have some assets to split which we have discussed and seems like we are agreeable. I will certainly get a lawyer, but if everything is pretty cut and dry and I agree on the terms, do you all feel a lawyer is still needed?
Also in our last conversation, I did tell her I can't continue to be married to her if she is with another man. That's when I gave her the paperwork to look over, it was basically the do it yourself divorce paperwork. I made it clear that's not what I want, just what must happen if she wants to be with someone else. So I guess if she does move forward with the divorce I'll just let her know I won't stand her in way anymore and I need some time to look it over. Basically I had put it on her to make a decision and do the work to get this divorce going if that is what she wants.
Well we met, I will say not a lot came of the conversation. It was pretty much just rehashing what we have already discussed in regards to splitting things, just with some more concrete numbers. No official paperwork has been filled out or anything. Took LH19's advice to just make a statement that I do not want this divorce, but I won't stand in her way and I am moving forward. She said she knows that, and she started to tear up but held it back. Guilt maybe? She still wants the divorce at this point...
I just kept calm and the whole thing was over fairly quickly, she did bring over dinner and offered to bring me something, but I declined. When she started asking some personal more friend type questions I just said I would let her finish eating and went in another room for a bit.
After we finished discussing the assets she asked if there was anything else we needed to talk about. I'll tell you it was hard to not start talking about "us" again, but I just said no. Then as she was leaving, she said she knows I probably don't care, but she did start seeing a counselor to figure herself out.
J,
You handled yourself well you should be proud! At this point there is nothing you can say that will change her mind. Unfortunately it takes awhile for the reality to set in regarding the fantasy.
I heard an analogy of the WWs fantasy of being single like the fantasy of going to Disney land. You get there and the first day it’s great and you ride all the rides. Then the second you realize that most of the day is spent on long boring lines. Then by the third day you are sick of eating expensive crap food. By day 4 you start to realize the music is taunting you and you just want to go back home to your everyday life.
This process though takes a long time. Steve promotes on here that 90% of WWs will eventually want to recon at some point in time.
Keep your chin up and keep moving forward.
J,
We have a lot of similarities in our situations. You did great in this conversation and keep that in mind for future conversations as well. It's a marathon not a sprint.
The fact that she informed you of the counsellor tells me that she's not fully done. Remember what detached means too....go back and read the intro part on detachment. It's not to be cold and heartless. Keep positive and show her your emotional strength and self-respect.
Well done, js. I still see some signs that there is still hope. Her tearing up. Hey being in counseling (though that sometimes works against you). Just hang in there. Keep DBing. Let the chips fall where they may.
LH19, that's an interesting analogy, wish it only took 4 days in real life
Jac12, thanks for the positive thoughts, I certainly would like to think there is still some hope left. I've started reading through your threads now as well.
Steve85, yes I certainly hope the counselor she speaks with is a pro marriage one. I know some counselors will just lead them wherever they think they will be "happy".
I'm working on just continuing to move forward and really focusing on trying to create stronger friendships and being more open and better at conversations. In my opinion that is one of my largest flaws, just being very closed off and internalizing all my issues. I'm a very shy person, so I'm really trying to power through that and just talk to people.
Yeah unfortunately more like 4 years.
I'm working on just continuing to move forward and really focusing on trying to create stronger friendships and being more open and better at conversations. In my opinion that is one of my largest flaws, just being very closed off and internalizing all my issues. I'm a very shy person, so I'm really trying to power through that and just talk to people.
What action are you taking to break out of your shyness? Here are some ideas:
IC
Toastmasters
Speech class at the local Community College
Training resources at work
So many people that are shy think "that is who I am". Doesn't have to be. I was very shy in my younger days. Now I am very outgoing. You can change that about you just like you can change other things about yourself.
Steve, so one big thing, at work I often have to give presentations to a pretty large crowd. I am trying to do that more often and just build confidence in doing that.
Also just talking to people in general. I am really trying to make an effort to engage in conversations and ask people questions about themselves.
However, I can now confidently say I am doing these things for myself only. Some things transpired that I have decided I am done standing for this marriage. I am moving forward with steps to end the marriage and unfortunately I am no longer interested in reconciling.
I want to thank everyone on this forum so much. I truly appreciate that you all give your time to help others. This is such a great community and I am happy to have found it. I am going to try my best to keep responding to other threads as I want to pay it forward and help others as well. Thank you everyone!
js, presentations are great. But public speeches are even better. Look for opportunities to do some public speaking. You will be better for it.
Thank you Steve! I will certainly try
This is kind of weird, but do any of you ever hope your WW wants to reconcile just so you can tell her no? That’s what keeps going through my head right now. I guess I just want her to know she was wrong, I need to work on those feelings for sure.
Just posting out my thoughts...
I'm a very shy person, so I'm really trying to power through that and just talk to people.
Hey JST - me too! Especially with women. It's hard to get talking isnt it. I find it easier in talking with women that I'll pick something about them, say their nails, or piece of jewellery, or clothing item, compliment it and go from there.
Today, a lady who served me at a shop had a smart watch that looked like mine. As I handed the money over I asked if it was the same brand as mine, it was, and we got to talking about how fantastic our watches were, what they did, etc etc.
The other day I commented about a ladies shoes as I passed her and I got a smile and a few words back.
Anyway, it seems to work. Baby steps though.
If you're shy, try reading the book Style Life challenge.
Good luck mate.
Thank you Steve! I will certainly try
This is kind of weird, but do any of you ever hope your WW wants to reconcile just so you can tell her no? That’s what keeps going through my head right now. I guess I just want her to know she was wrong, I need to work on those feelings for sure.
Just posting out my thoughts...
I R with my W, and over the last 2 years I've had the thought that I should have told her "sorry, this ain't working for me." I went through it bad about the 1 years mark of BD.
Here's the problem, it just a fantasy. If she came back wanting to R you'd be over the moon, more than likely. That is your anger towards her clouding your judgement.
Just focus on you! You are doing great, keep it up.
Thanks again Steve, I'm certainly trying!
That's an interesting take on the fantasy, I guess I won't know how I will feel unless that actually happened, but right now it sure does not feel like I would be over the moon. I feel disgusted with her at the moment.
In my previous posts I mentioned we had met and finalized numbers, well I did my part to insure I can come through with what we agreed on. I informed her of that and asked her to get the papers ready to go. It's been a week since I asked her to do this. She still has not gotten them ready and today sent me a message that she is finding it difficult to figure out on her own and wants to sit down and do them together.
Our situation is fairly simple, there isn't a lot to split, our state provides an interview tool that asks you some questions and fills out the paperwork for you as long as you agree on everything and are not using lawyers. It's really quite easy, absolutely no reason we need to sit down together anymore.
I haven't responded to her yet, but I just went ahead and filled it out myself, it took all of 15 minutes and I will send her the paperwork tomorrow via e-mail to review.
Do you guys think she really can't figure this out, or is she just continuing to drag it out? I certainly think she is a moron with her current life choices, but she isn't a stupid person intellectually.
Well I responded to her text and let her know I sent the paperwork via email. She then asked if I am just avoiding seeing her now and didn’t say anything about the paperwork. How would you guys respond to that? I don’t want to see her, and I don’t really see any reason why it’s necessary.
I would just say you sent it via email so it would be documented.
Well I responded to her text and let her know I sent the paperwork via email. She then asked if I am just avoiding seeing her now and didn’t say anything about the paperwork. How would you guys respond to that? I don’t want to see her, and I don’t really see any reason why it’s necessary.
Ignore it.
Js,
Just read your story, and it seems like a carbon copy of my own. NGS is an absolute killer, and like you, I didn't recognize it until it was too late. What's doubly frustrating (and I suspect this is the case with you as well) is that it's the same story in EVERY serious relationship I've been in.
If you haven't read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover, I strongly, strongly recommend it. It sounds like you already have a good understanding of how this is impacting your relationships, but I've found the book also helps quite a bit in terms of addressing it and moving forward.
Js,
If you haven't read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover, I strongly, strongly recommend it. It sounds like you already have a good understanding of how this is impacting your relationships, but I've found the book also helps quite a bit in terms of addressing it and moving forward.
Yep I have been reading that one, thank you!
Do you still want to save your M? The last few posts have me feeling that you've given up. If you still want to make things work, you shouldn't be pushing the paperwork for D on her. She should be doing all the work for that, not you...
Hi Jstembr,
You've said, "I am done standing for this marriage." In that case, there's no need to respond anymore.
My ex has been texting me every few days since she gave up on us 7 weeks ago and I stopped trying solo. The first 3 weeks I only offered thumbs-up emojis to proposed logistics and simple counter-offers e.g. "Jan-8 1-3pm or Jan-9 10am-12pm". Since then I've been completely radio silent even to "ILU" messages. I suspect they, along with any lingering feelings for me, will die away soon enough.
Will giving up so soon mean doubts later?
This is kind of weird, but do any of you ever hope your WW wants to reconcile just so you can tell her no?
Not now, but when I was much more attached, definitely! That fantasy puts you in control instead of her calling most shots, and allows you to vent your anger by hurting her in a socially acceptable way. Once you detach from your ex, those fantasies tend to disappear. I control my life and don’t want to hurt my ex or anyone else even in fantasy.
Mtb and Cwarrior, thank you for the responses!
I have given up unfortunately. I guess I just don’t have the patience for this, and she has done so much that I don’t see her ever coming back to the marriage. Maybe way down the road she will have regret, but I can’t wait around. At this point I feel like I would not be a good husband to her because I just have no respect anymore.
And Cwarrior, it’s funny how fast things change, but I already just don’t care, I hope she doesn’t have regret so she can be happy, but I think she has some pretty big issues to work out with herself.
I will say I happened to meet someone and get a date for valentines weekend, I’m sure that is helping with my attitude. It just sort of happened, so I’m going with it!
So you are a married man and you have a date for V's day. Sounds like you have a lot of work to do on yourself too.
So you are a married man and you have a date for V's day. Sounds like you have a lot of work to do on yourself too.
Yeah this concerns me too. js, a lot of LBSs fall into the trap of finding someone new and then deciding they are done. That is cart in front of horse. Are you REALLY ready? If not, this new R has no change of success. You have to earn your way out of your marriage. Maybe you have, but I've followed your sitch js and I don't think you have.
At the end of the day, she is still moved out and still seeing this other guy. I love my wife and do not want to end this marriage, but I think I also need to come to terms that I drove her away and it could already be over. Just looking for some advice!
Dude, you posted this on January 4th....and you are showing her your changes by having a date for Valentines day?
If you love your wife and you want to try to save your marriage, then you don't go out on a date, especially on Valentine's Day. By dating, you are sending her a clear message that you have absolutely no problem w/her being involved with someone else.
Cancel the date, work on yourself and keep the focus on you. Dating is not working on YOU! Step back and regroup.
So you are a married man and you have a date for V's day. Sounds like you have a lot of work to do on yourself too.
Yeah this concerns me too. js, a lot of LBSs fall into the trap of finding someone new and then deciding they are done. That is cart in front of horse. Are you REALLY ready? If not, this new R has no change of success. You have to earn your way out of your marriage. Maybe you have, but I've followed your sitch js and I don't think you have.
I don’t feel married anymore, I’ve told my family, all close friends, etc that I am divorced. Yes, legally it’s not completed, but I just hit a wall and was done. That feeling happened and then by chance I met someone. If my heart was still in this I don’t believe that would have happened?
I agree, I have a lot to work on, confidence is a big one for me, shyness, etc, all things that I just need to be out making new friends.
LH19, you are right though, I told myself I would not date until the divorce was finalized. So thank you for the reality check, I am going to cancel this date.
I have given up unfortunately. I guess I just don’t have the patience for this, and she has done so much that I don’t see her ever coming back to the marriage.
You had a whole list of things in your first post that you needed to work on. You're too young to be moving on to marriage #3! Look at your thread title- "Emotionally Unavailable". Do you really want to carry all this baggage into a new R without doing some work first?
Maybe way down the road she will have regret, but I can’t wait around.
What would she regret?
"Looking back we certainly should have spent more time learning how to communicate with each other."
You are a poor communicator.
"After we got married we did start to grow apart and I really see it was me just not allowing myself to be fully open with her, something she desperately wanted."
You've built walls around yourself and don't let her in.
"She did try to communicate this to me, but I always took it the wrong way, like she was attacking me, and it just further solidified my confidence issues with her, to the point where I just started to shutdown."
You are emotionally unavailable.
"but goes back to the fact that she can't get the loving feeling back for me again because I made her feel so unwanted and hurt."
You emotionally abused her.
"I drove her away"
Speaks for itself.
So how have you become a man she would regret not being married to? And how have you become a new and improved man prepared for a new relationship, and not just someone ready to repeat their old mistakes?
I will say I happened to meet someone and get a date for valentines weekend, I’m sure that is helping with my attitude. It just sort of happened, so I’m going with it!
Do you think that's a good idea for you or the other woman? Have you discussed this date with your IC? If not then you should.
Jac12, job, and AnotherStander thank you so much for these reality checks. This forum really is great. You are all right, that date was not a good idea. I will admit it made me feel great in the moment, but that is not fair to another person. I have canceled that date.
I need more time to become that man my wife would regret not being married to. With that said, I am going to continue working on those things for myself.
I know Steve said if she all of sudden turned around and wanted to work on this marriage I would be over the moon, but I just don't feel that way at all. At this point I just can't see how I would ever want to be back with her.
I'm certainly not looking to move on to marriage number 3 anytime soon though.
When you have been a SSM or "loveless" MR or otherwise lonely or denied affection intimacy for a looooong period of time, suddenly getting interest from a member of the opposite sex, particularly an attractive one, is.... intoxicating. Very intoxicating. When I got my first "taste" of that dynamic, after BD by my WW and a period of picking myself up, GAL-ing, and deciding I was just going to go out and socialize and have fun, it knocked me over. My MR had not been "hot", loving, intimate... whatever you want to call it, not even affectionate, for probably 10 years, and I had been married for over 20 years and not "on the market" since that time. While I was opening myself up to socializing and bantering and even, as I thought, "light" flirting, I was not prepared for my response/reaction. That a younger, very attractive, lady would return my banter/flirting and actually escalate it... WOW. Like I said, intoxicating. It took a good friend who was with me to talk me down during a private moment at the bar: "Hey, man, so what are you doing here, what are you hoping happens... What do you think this girl is hoping happens and how does that mesh with you being married and what you are trying to do with your marriage?" It was good he was there, because I am not sure that i would have de-escalated the enocunter with this woman otherwise... and, in the end, that was not what I was looking for and not what either of us needed at that moment. But, in the heat of the moment, when it has been a while since you received that kind of attention, it can be VERY hard to resist. it gave me new perspective on my W's situation and behavior-- not that it excused her having an A... but i could see how, under the circumstances, that attention after such a long period of neglect could be enticing and hard to resist.
Bottom line is that in this period you need to be working on yourself, making yourself relationship-ready (which you are not right now) and turning yourself into AMOAFWL--- an effort that will serve you well in whatever relationship you ultimately end up.
Do you guys think she really can't figure this out, or is she just continuing to drag it out? I certainly think she is a moron with her current life choices, but she isn't a stupid person intellectually.
She is wayward. Also, she wants to keep you on the back burner, just in case things with OM go sour. Therefore, she had to find something to use as a connection. Know what it was? It was the dog.
Many young WW's play this game with the LBH. It's their way of keeping one foot in both worlds.
If you aren't ready to divorce, or aren't sure.......then wait. However, you don't have to play her game. Work on your own personal growth. You don't have to show her any changes, especially when she is having an affair! Don't be afraid of not responding to her. Don't be afraid to tell her you have nothing to discuss as long as she is seeing someone else.
How would you guys respond to that? I don’t want to see her, and I don’t really see any reason why it’s necessary.
Answer: I don't want to see you, so I really see no reason as we have nothing to discuss as long you are seeing someone else.
If she says she doesn't know what she wants, then you tell her that's too bad, b/c you don't intend to waste your life waiting for a wayward wife to make up her mind.
Seriously, as long as she can play games with you......she will. She will need to feel she's really losing you as a friend, a husband, or any capacity you hold in her life.
So you are a married man and you have a date for V's day. Sounds like you have a lot of work to do on yourself too.
Yeah this concerns me too. js, a lot of LBSs fall into the trap of finding someone new and then deciding they are done. That is cart in front of horse. Are you REALLY ready? If not, this new R has no change of success. You have to earn your way out of your marriage. Maybe you have, but I've followed your sitch js and I don't think you have.
I don’t feel married anymore, I’ve told my family, all close friends, etc that I am divorced. Yes, legally it’s not completed, but I just hit a wall and was done. That feeling happened and then by chance I met someone. If my heart was still in this I don’t believe that would have happened?
I agree, I have a lot to work on, confidence is a big one for me, shyness, etc, all things that I just need to be out making new friends.
LH19, you are right though, I told myself I would not date until the divorce was finalized. So thank you for the reality check, I am going to cancel this date.
BRavo JS! Bravo! Glad to see you do the right thing.
Look this stuff is hard. Sometimes we do things out of hurt, anger, and fear. You likely had some of that going on when you made this date. However, it takes a big man to admit he was wrong, and then to take actions to correct it! So good on you. If you need help in what to tell this new person, we'll be glad to coach.
Working on you for you, not for your WW, may just attract her back anyway.
I will save my diatribe on the "I feel divorced" thing later, right now I just want to congratulate you for doing the right thing.
You are all right, that date was not a good idea. I will admit it made me feel great in the moment, but that is not fair to another person. I have canceled that date.
WELL DONE!!!! I was fully expecting you to list a bunch of reasons "explaining" your rationale for continuing with the date, you'd be surprised how many LBS's will do that. They just keep doing the wrong things while convincing themselves that their situation is unique and the DB rules don't apply to them. So great job on listening and acting, I know it wasn't easy but it was the right course of action. Very proud of you!
I need more time to become that man my wife would regret not being married to. With that said, I am going to continue working on those things for myself.
Perfect.
I know Steve said if she all of sudden turned around and wanted to work on this marriage I would be over the moon, but I just don't feel that way at all. At this point I just can't see how I would ever want to be back with her.
And that's OK to feel that way. It may indeed be over, but like you said you've got some work to do before you're ready for the next R. And while you're doing that work, your W may very well hit rock bottom and start working on herself, and then who knows what may happen.
Thank you guys, I really appreciate the encouragement
hoosjim, you really hit the nail on the head. I am really trying to get out there, be social, talk to people about things, learn about them and just being more open. It's great meeting new friends, but they are just friends, they aren't a life companion, so DBing gets lonely at times, and the sudden attention from a woman was certainly exciting. You are totally right too about getting perspective on your wife, my wife complained of being lonely, and the sudden attention from another man I'm sure was exciting for her.
Wow, sandi2 thank you so much for responding to my thread. I feel very privileged to get a response from you. I want to thank you for all the time you have spent on this forum. I have read and re-read your welcome threads on wayward wives countless times trying to get an understanding of what is happening in my life right now.
Answer: I don't want to see you, so I really see no reason as we have nothing to discuss as long you are seeing someone else.
This is actually almost exactly what I ended up saying to her (sorry Steve85, I didn't just ignore it). She got upset and told me I was being immature.
Then the next day she finally sent me a message about the divorce papers I had written up, saying she wanted to add a couple things and have a friend look them over. Then nothing after that, so I still just feel like she is continuing to delay it, or maybe it's not a priority to her. I don't know, she just makes very little effort to actually get divorced. She has made plenty of effort to be separated, you would not be able to tell I have a wife if you were just a stranger looking at my life, but no effort to finalize it. She even still continues to pay her portion of the bills which I find very odd, it's all on auto pay, so again, just very little effort, like it's to much work to turn that off or something.
No apology necessary! Well done on that response.
I don't know, she just makes very little effort to actually get divorced. She has made plenty of effort to be separated, you would not be able to tell I have a wife if you were just a stranger looking at my life, but no effort to finalize it. She even still continues to pay her portion of the bills which I find very odd, it's all on auto pay, so again, just very little effort, like it's to much work to turn that off or something.
It probably doesn't help to tell you we see this same lack of taking care of business from WW's all the time. She doesn't want to be your "wife", yet she is hesitating to legally set the D in motion. IMHO, part of it is due to her own selfish mindset (having a backup plan) and part of it is her wanting some type of control over your life. This why WW's in an affair will get very curious about the LBH's personal life.......asking if he is dating, suggesting he has a GF, etc. It's b/c she doesn't want her position in his life to be replaced by a new woman. Although your WW doesn't want to commit or put forth the necessary work to save this M, she doesn't want anyone else in your heart/life. I know how insane that sounds, but her mindset is pretty messed up at this point. Currently, she doesn't want you......but she doesn't want another woman to have you. She wants you to remain available to her, to use as her buddy, confidant, whatever. Furthermore, if she senses you pulling away, she will try various means to trap you in an emotional spin cycle.
See how she projected on you when you told her you weren't interested in talking to her? Just stick to your guns, and stay strong, b/c she will probably try to test you in other ways. We've read all type of scenarios where the WW played nice; slept with the LBH; shed tears about how he could never love her again; etc. and etc. You can't believe any of this type of stuff from the WW. She's nowhere close to being serious whenever she approaches her LBS this way. Oh, and if she starts the "poor me" talk, just remember that in her mindset everything is about her. She's looking out for #1, and if that means having to play on your emotions to keep you on the back burner......then that's what she'll do.
What should a LBH expect if his WW comes to her senses and wants to reconcile? If she is genuine, she'll be very humble. There should be no signs of stubborn pride from her. There should be no haughtiness in her attitude, speech, or behavior. She should be seeking forgiveness and have a humble willingness to do whatever it takes to save the M. If she comes in with a list of demands for you........then forget it, b/c this will not be a woman who is ready to do the work. LBH's have to be very strong, b/c some WW's are very cunning. Don't be like some guys who want their family back so badly that they don't hold out long enough for the wayward to seriously want him back and will cooperate with what he requires to reconcile. Too many H's will not stand up to the WW, and she marches back home when her fantasy sours, tells him to sleep in the basement or wherever, and she is in charge. They don't reconcile, they just abide under the same roof, which I've read can sukk the soul out of a man.
Being physically separated will give you space and time to work on yourself. Some guys think it means to improve themselves as a husband. You can't do it when she's with another man! Use this time to zone in on your personal faults and improve yourself as a man. She lost respect for you as a man, first. She'll have to regain respect before the natural desires for her H will return to her. Don't worry about how she'll see your improvements. That becomes a distraction the LBH sets up for himself, and the changes don't last.....b/c he was only using it to get his W back. If you really work on self esteem, your confidence will improve, and with enough growth.....you will have quality people coming to you.
Currently, you are experiencing some confusion about how you truly feel for your W. She's confused about her feelings, too. Her confusion is not like your confusion, b/c she's willingly allowed herself to engage in a lifestyle that was previously off limits by her own moral code. That's what is so shocking for her H and loved ones. This is not the same person they knew. It's not the same for her, either, and it's rather exciting b/c she is being the "bad girl" who is rebelling against her H, her M, her previous morals/religion, etc. At some point, I hope she will decide to do the right thing. I believe the WW has to experience some type of personal loss, in order for her to come to her senses. I want to add something to that statement, b/c I read stories from LBH's who say they don't know how much more loss his WW could withstand. Here's the kicker. Unless she reveals what it was.......nobody may ever know. Another important fact is that her loss doesn't
guarantee a reconciliation. It opens her eyes, and she may initially experience remorse, shame, etc. However, she is not instantly changed back into the girl you married. Her LBH could be in a new M, or she could have married her affair partner. I mean, when there is a quick divorce, and the spouses move on, it happens. The LBH may never hear her utter the words of deep remorse for what she did to him, and their family. I'm just being real here.
On a more positive note, there are reports of WW's who did eventually come to their senses. (I hope you know what I mean by come to their senses). There's no way of predicting how long it takes, b/c it depends on the individual situation. The reason I encourage LBH's to stand tall with much courage and dignity, and not become his WW's puppet.......is b/c of it's impact on her level of respect for him, thereby increasing the chances of successful reconciliation. The bottom line for every WW is lack of respect for her H. It can take on the form of other things, but at the bottom there is always,
always......disrespect. Resentment, selfishness, and disrespect feeds rebellion.
Just checking in, not a whole lot to update.
Sandi2, thank you for your response, I think a lot of what you said sure seems to apply to my WW. All of it seems to be things she is doing.
I'm just not sure if she cares what the "right" thing is unfortunately. She has been a bit wild in her past and always commented how meeting me really changed her life. It feels like she is just going back to her old ways, maybe I was boring, I don't know? She is young, and probably not where she wants to be in life right now...
I don't believe I have mentioned one major thing, as I was so focused on what has been happening the last few months. So the first time she talked to me about her unhappiness was shortly after she quit her job. The job that she went to school for and was supposed to be her career. She got another job, that really should have been temporary, that she still has now. It's just a mundane job that a teenager would have, not challenging at all. So this is certainly a dynamic that changed in our life as well. Before this she had a very taxing day and purpose in her life, after this her day was boring, and then she comes home to just boring normal life as well. Just something that adds to maybe why she has chosen this new path in life?
Anyway, the one update I do have, is she continues to delay things. She keeps saying she doesn't fully understand the process and wants to make sure we are both protected. That's fair, I get it she is nervous about things. So she wants to sit down with a professional to make sure we are doing everything correctly. I said that's fine, lets get it done. We will see how long this takes now...
Hi sandi2,
Thank you so much for checking in on me
I'm doing well, nothing much to report, it's been another week and we are still in limbo. I pushed her a little earlier in the week and she says she is now hiring a lawyer and I should have paperwork next week. I think she is getting frustrated that I keep asking her for updates and just wants someone else to deal with it.
I believe I read somewhere that the WW just wants to live in this fantasy world with no problems, and her having to deal with this divorce I'm sure doesn't align with that fantasy world. Perhaps that is why nothing gets done with it?
Anyway, other than trying to finalize a divorce the rest of my life is going very well!
Anyway, other than trying to finalize a divorce the rest of my life is going very well!
Why have you been pushing her about the paperwork? Do you want a divorce? Do you think this will cause her to come to her senses?
Why have you been pushing her about the paperwork? Do you want a divorce? Do you think this will cause her to come to her senses?
I know a lot of members on this forum have the patience to endure this limbo period for years. I unfortunately do not, I held out for almost 5 months, but I just reached a breaking point. Perhaps if we had been married longer, or had children I would be willing to stick this out longer, but that is not the case. I'm done being married to a woman that has a boyfriend.
So to answer your question, yes at this point I want a divorce, and no I do not expect anything to change with her.
I am sorry that things haven't changed in your situation. I do understand how you feel and it's very frustrating when one half of a couple goes out there and has an affair. Five months isn't all that long for an affair and the euphoria of that affair does not wear off very quickly. It may take her a while to even realize what is going on w/the situation and waking up takes even longer.
If your wife were in a coma or had a life threatening illness that had lingered for five months, would you be as quick in wanting to divorce her? If she should wake up before the divorce is final, would you consider taking her back?
As for the divorce paperwork, she may drag her feet on it because she may not really want it. Dig deeper for patience and I do hope that she comes to realize what she is losing in the way of a spouse, lover, and companion.
Continue working on yourself.
If your wife were in a coma or had a life threatening illness that had lingered for five months, would you be as quick in wanting to divorce her?
Do you think you can compare this situation to an affair? In this case it is something out of her control, I would never leave her in a situation like this. Maybe you can argue an affair is out of her control because of this whole limerance, it's like a drug thing, but I just can't reconcile that in my head anymore. I just feel like she needed to realize that and make the choice to end it, even if it was hard. At this point it's going to be because it just fizzled out and then she realizes she made a mistake? That just makes me the second choice don't you think?
If she should wake up before the divorce is final, would you consider taking her back?
I do not feel that I would. With that said, there is still that part of my heart that loves her. Would I suddenly let emotions take over and want to her back? I can't confidently say no, but I can tell you I will read back through this thread if that happens to help keep my emotions in check. I do know at this point it will require a lot of convincing on her part.
Continue working on yourself.
Absolutely! Like I said, I know I have my faults as well, and I certainly don't want to repeat this in a future relationship. I am continuing to work on my own issues the best I know how!
Why have you been pushing her about the paperwork? Do you want a divorce? Do you think this will cause her to come to her senses?
I know a lot of members on this forum have the patience to endure this limbo period for years. I unfortunately do not, I held out for almost 5 months, but I just reached a breaking point. Perhaps if we had been married longer, or had children I would be willing to stick this out longer, but that is not the case. I'm done being married to a woman that has a boyfriend.
So to answer your question, yes at this point I want a divorce, and no I do not expect anything to change with her.
Hi jstrembr,
I was just like you. 6 months after my wife gave me the ILYBNILY, I was tired of being in limbo and i decided to file for divorce. Partly because I felt I needed to move on even though I still wanted her back, and I admit partly also because I hoped that it might wake her up. It did not, and she went along with it. It might have ruined my chances of getting back together with her, future will tell.
In any case, it definitely helped me detach and move on and I don’t regret my decision.
However, there is something that I never quite understood when reading about recons that happen after 3 or 5 years. Does that mean that people stayed married and in limbo during all these years ? Or does that mean that people divorced and then recon happened after several years ?
Jason,
I’ll give you MY opinion. The only true way to a great reconciliation is that there needs to be time and space between the two people and they have to truly both agree by experience that life is better together then it was a part.
Long bouts of limbo rarely lead to reconciliation because it is soul sucking. Go read RR17s thread. His two and a half year life of limbo ended with her moving out today.
Long bouts of limbo rarely lead to reconciliation because it is soul sucking. Go read RR17s thread. His two and a half year life of limbo ended with her moving out today.
It's a sad truth, but I agree, it's just a very hard way to live. You can certainly be happy, and live life for yourself, but the fact is you are still married and that holds you back from truly moving forward. So it's tough to just remain in limbo for a long time.
Also for me the limbo is further ruining my image of my wife, if she had just ended our marriage we would have went our separate ways. Sure it would have hurt, but it wouldn't be this repeated hurt over and over. That just degrades the feelings further and further. Instead of just being a clean break. Not sure if I'm explaining myself well enough, hopefully that comes across how I want it to.
And thanks for responding Jason88! As of right now I do not regret pushing this, although even though she says she is hiring a lawyer, she has responded many times saying she is finally moving this forward and then nothing actually happens, so we will see...
jstermbr...just another opinion. We all have our timelines.
While my W and I have not reconciled officially yet, we are spending a lot of time together and she's been way more loving and appreciative of me in general. It took about 13 months to get to this point as she was battling her own issues that I was largely unaware of until Shite hit the fan.
It was the toughest 13 months of my life. It became easier as I detached and tried to focus on myself and my son.
Hopefully we have a happy ending...I won't count my chickens just yet but the whole process has taught me a lot about myself and relationships and I fully believe that we will have a stronger M in the future if we do R.
jstrember,
You have to do what is right for you.
Limbo is not for everyone. Some adjust to it and can continue to live life to the fullest and others can't. For those that live in limbo, it could be that they want to be able to say at the end of the limbo period that they tried everything to save their relationship. For others, they aren't in any hurry to divorce because of financial reasons or they aren't in a rush to move on and meet someone else.
I may be wrong about your wife, but she's only 29 and she may have gotten caught up in all of the dreams of being married, the house and the white picket fence. Her fantasy about married life eventually snuffed itself out. She may have met this om and he paid a lot of attention to her, stroked her ego and that euphoric high of "being in love" struck again. BTW, some people just live for that "being in love" feeling. I do not think she was mature enough to handle being married, I don't think she had spread her wings enough to finally settle down. Like I said I could be wrong about my interpretation of her.
You, on the other hand, are a bit older and more mature. You were more than ready to settle down and live your life comfortably w/your spouse. There was a communication gap between the two of you. This happens sometimes when there is a wider gap in ages. My parents were 15 years apart and now that I am older, I can look back on their relationship and see that there were some issues because of the ages and the mindset of both of them. Again, I am not making excuses for her just walking away.
I do not think that your wife will be too quick on locating a lawyer and getting the ball rolling. She may think that you will be right where she left you once she's done "spreading her wings and flying around the universe" or as some would say "taking a time out of the marriage". In my opinion, she truly needs to grow up. Unfortunately, she's going to discover that you are serious about moving on and I truly hope that she realizes what she's lost because of what she's done and continues to do.
I am very, very sorry your situation has come down to you pushing for a divorce. As I stated at the beginning of this posting, you have to do what is right for you. We are not walking in your shoes, however, we do understand the frustration and pain you have been going through.
If, at some point, she wants to try to reconcile and you decide to try again, she will need to do a lot of work to earn your trust and your heart once again. It will require a lot of patience on your part, but if and when that time comes, as you stated, you will always have your threads to re-read to help you stay the course. Then again, it may be too late and you will have met someone else and that will be her loss to deal with, not yours.
jstermbr...just another opinion. We all have our timelines.
While my W and I have not reconciled officially yet, we are spending a lot of time together and she's been way more loving and appreciative of me in general. It took about 13 months to get to this point as she was battling her own issues that I was largely unaware of until Shite hit the fan.
It was the toughest 13 months of my life. It became easier as I detached and tried to focus on myself and my son.
See I think a common thing is couples that are able to reconcile is they have something to fight for, such as a child. In my situation we have no kids and both of us are able to support ourselves financially. So it's truly just fighting for "us". In all the success stories, I find it rare that a couple that was married for a short period and no kids comes out the other side successfully. I suppose there is always some hope!
Job, I really think your post is on point. Especially the points on maturity, again, for others that read this, please don't think I am placing all blame on my wife. However, it is very apparent she has lots of growing up to do. In current actions and looking back at our relationship, I certainly see that.
I'm willing to deal with that fact, but what I just can't handle anymore is her being in a relationship with someone else. I feel justified with myself that I did give it every possible chance I can give, so as far as breaking my marriage vows "for better, for worse", I've come to terms with that.
I'm not going to lie though, my thoughts change on a daily basis, so I'll keep posting
I know you aren't placing all of the blame on your wife. Looking back, you were able to see that each of you contributed to the issues in your marriage. I do not encourage anyone to take 100% blame of the relationship/marriage going south. We are human and are bound to make many mistakes along the way. It is what we learn from those mistakes that will strengthen us and make us so much wiser.
Yes, your thoughts are going to change many times over. It's a difficult decision to make, i.e., to walk away and say "I've had enough".
BTW, my questions yesterday were truly not off the wall. I wanted to see how you would react and your responses told me that you are a man who would love his wife to the end of time and be there no matter what. You are a very compassionate man who has been hurt very deeply.
Focus on today and allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready. It's one day at a time for now. I'm glad you will continue posting. It's always good to have someone to bounce things off of and the Board has many, many good people who are here to listen, validate and yes, even give you 2 x 4's along the way.
Hi everyone, happy March! Just checking in, nothing new to report. Just focusing on today, as job said. Trying to stay busy and make new friends and just see where life takes me.
I do have a funny story though, so I mentioned that my wife said she was going to hire an attorney and we should no longer speak. I have certainly respected her wishes and that is the last communication we have had. Well on Friday I get a notice that I have a certified letter being delivered. I of course think, oh this is it, it's going to be her initial request that the lawyer drew up. I worried a bit wondering if she is going to sway from what we agreed on. I did my research to find an attorney in case I need one. The letter was just on my mind all day. Well I get home and it's not even for me! It was a letter for someone that used to live at my house, so I just declined accepting it. I can not believe the timing of that, had a pretty good laugh on that one.
However, just back in limbo land now, I don't know if she actually hired an attorney or not, or if she has even thought about it at all since the last message. All that worrying on Friday has me just wanting to put this on the back burner for right now, so at least for another week I'll just leave things alone and see if I hear anything from her or an attorney.
Hi all, just checking in. It's been over 3 weeks now and we have had zero communication. No communication from her directly, nothing from any lawyers, just nothing.
I'll tell you my mind goes back and forth, some days I still wish she will just message that she made a huge mistake, but most of the time I just want to be done having to think about this and move on with my life. I just wish I knew what was going on, does our marriage just mean so little that she doesn't even care to properly end it and she just doesn't even think about it? Is she still keeping me on the back burner? Is she cooking up some crazy legal case (not sure what she could even do)? This limbo period is very tough.
I can't understand it from her point of view either, we have common friends, so as far as I know she is still seeing someone, still living with her mother, you would think after almost 7 months you would want to get your own life back on track, she has a nice payment coming to her if we complete this divorce. She could ride of into the sunset with the new guy so to say.
I've resisted reaching out to her for an update, do I continue that path? Do I hire a lawyer and just have her contacted by the lawyer? Do I just simply ask for her an update?
I will say most days I'm just fine, just was thinking this morning and decided to post and get some advice about reaching out, vs just continuing to leave it alone.
Thanks all!
Hi jstrembr, I thought you had said you were ready for D ? If you’re ready, then just hire a lawyer.
Now if you’re not 100% sure and you still aim at R, don’t do anything, you could regret it later. Just wait for her to contact you.
I know it’s hard and personally I could not stand being in limbo like this for several months knowing that W is probably with another man.
But everyone is different and if you think there is still a chance that you might R, then don’t reach out to her and be patient.
As to the question why WAW jut wait like this for months without taking any step towards D, my XW acted the same and I never really understood why. Maybe the vets can give explanations.
Hope you are taking care of yourself, and hear from you soon.
Jason88, thanks for the response. I work in a field that is highly involved in what is going on lately so I’ve been so busy this week it’s been easy for me to just put this whole situation with my wife on the back burner. Am I 100% sure I want a divorce? No, I can’t say that I am, but I agree the limbo period is very difficult. I think right now, I’m so focused on work, I will just keep that focus and see if I hear anything from her rather than pushing it any further.
So with your XW, did you have to make the move to make it final? I will say that is just so confusing to me, if someone wants out, won’t talk to me for an entire month, what is the point in not just ending it? So odd...
Sandi2, thank you for checking in! I’m doing well, just very busy these days, thank goodness I have the weekend to recharge a bit.
Hi jstrembr, are you at work on a vaccine ?
Yes with my XW I did the first move. After she moved out, she sent me breadcrumbs for 6 months, but without showing any intention to work on R. At one point I felt I had enough and told her I wanted a D and she calmly said OK. In 6 months she had never pronounced the word D.
Who knows what would have happened had I waited. At least I think that D helped move on and gave me peace of mind.
I would be interested to know what Sandi2 has to say about WAW or WW who move out but don’t take any action towards D.
Jason88,
Please start a thread of your own so that others can provide support and/or guidance to you. You are still on moderation and most likely will remain on moderation until you create a thread. I know, it's crazy, but we can't be too careful as to who posts on any of the forums.
Jason88, no vaccine from me unfortunately!
Hi all, I just need some advice on what others would do. I know I need to decide this for myself, but it's tough. You can see through my thread at one point I still love my wife, and then at the next point I am pushing her to finish this divorce.
So I heard through grapevine that she was still seeing the OM, but things weren't going very well anymore. I will say hearing that gave me hope that maybe she was going to reach out to me. That hope weakened my thoughts of wanting to push this divorce, so perhaps I'm not as ready as I thought? Well it's been a week since hearing that "news" and I found out she still saw the other man again.
I went back through my previous posts, and one thing I didn't mention is back when I was pushing her, the last thing she said was she was getting a lawyer, and to no longer speak to her directly. It's now been over 6 weeks and I have had zero communication with her.
I'm just so conflicted, frustrated, etc. Part of me just wants this to be done, and I want her to do the work to get it done. I just feel so disrespected that she has now left me in the dark for 6 weeks wondering what her next step is going to be. Part of me wishes I could just have my wife back and we could work on this marriage. Do I give up that chance because she turned into this other person, at some point she will realize she isn't happy, but will it be enough for her to change, or will she just look to the next person to try and fulfill her happiness? Also does it make me less of a man to take someone back that has disrespected me so much? I struggle with that feeling a lot too.
Then I struggle with hiring a lawyer, I'll be honest, I'm cheap and I don't want to spend the money. I find it just wasteful because we already had agreed to everything and our state makes it quite easy to file an uncontested divorce, especially with no children involved. So I struggle with another choice, do I just go ahead and hire a lawyer so that she can see how serious this and we finally get some closure, or do I try just reaching out to her directly once more to see where she is at?
Or do I just continue to try to be patient, because obviously I don't really want this divorce, but I want this pain to be over so I can move on.
Anyway, I know at the end of the day I need to make all these decisions for myself, but I would certainly appreciate any advice!
Well after 6 weeks I finally get a message...
Nothing about the divorce, just her telling me she hopes my family and I are doing ok during these tough times, and then her telling me she isn’t working anymore due to the virus and would like help with the bills.
Now keep in mind she hasn’t lived in our house for about 6 months, but for some reason she kept paying some of the bills.
Her message started with her saying, she knows we agreed not to speak, which is totally false, she told me she was getting a lawyer and to not talk to her anymore, we didn’t agree to anything.
Anyway, thinking of just responding something along the lines, “We didn’t agree to anything, you told me not to speak to you. What’s going on with our divorce papers?” And leaving it at that.
Thoughts?
J,
How about
I hope you and your family are well too. I am sorry to hear you’re not working anymore. Just mail me a check for the bills.
J,
How about
I hope you and your family are well too. I am sorry to hear you’re not working anymore. Just mail me a check for the bills.
Thank you LH, so what is your thinking in that message? It seems to kind
I mean she doesn't live at our house anymore, I never expected her to keep paying them, but she did, so I wasn't going to go out of my way to turn it down either.
Also I want to clear up something I said in a previous post, I don't want a divorce, but I'm not sure I have any other choice at this point. It's so disappointing to finally get a message after 6 weeks, and have it be something so non-relevant. I'd rather it just be her finalizing the divorce, or the message where she is willing to do whatever it takes to fix our marriage (don't think that is happening though). Since I don't see that second thing happening, I might as well keep pushing for the divorce so I can get out of limbo land.
That's why I thought to basically just ignore it and use this as a chance to get an update on what is going on with our divorce...
Well my response was based on the idea that you don’t want a divorce. If you want to push the divorce why do you need her you to contact you to see where is at in the process?
Sounds like you need to decide what side of the fence you are on.