Hi everyone,
This is my revised thread, my original one had too much identifying info in it,
I’ll summarize my sitch, but first want to say I’m so grateful for the help of Sandi, Job, Litb, May, Unchien, AS and others who posted on my original, your advice has been invaluable.
I’m a W married to H and we have kids, recently we made a major move that didn’t work out. H was very angry and disappointed that we had to return. H is also unhappy about life in general at the moment. I, as the W, have become the target for a lot of the unhappiness and for the move failing. But, the decision to return was in the best interest of our kids. H has “threatened” to go back within a certain time frame if he still isn’t happy. But for now we are all together.
Litb and Sandi really helped me to see how I have contributed to some of the conflict in the MR and I have to own that. Over last few weeks I have listened and validated H when he has spoken, kept calm, not taken his bait and gotten on with taking care of myself and the kids. Validation is a great tool.
So that’s it in a nutshell, I will continue to post updates
Thanks
Hi Phoenix,
I really like the name of your new thread. Given that you just recently become a member of the board, you are doing well. It is huge that you are owning your part of the sitch and addressing it.
That being said, your H has his own issues that he will need to address in time. Keep listening and validating. When he is continuously being rude and trying to bait you, remove yourself from his presence like you have been. It is difficult to have a gunfight with an unarmed person or a person that doesn't provide a target.
I hope you are having a great weekend.
Thank Litb,
Your response comes at an odd time because we just had another fight, well, H was angry and trying to draw me in. It started because our D wouldn’t clean up before her play date. She kept putting it off and sulking and we were both calm and then I said I was leaving without her if she didn’t pick up. H finally raised his voice at her and I, made the mistake of saying that he doesn’t have to get critical. Well, that set him off. He said if I didn’t want him to be an involved parent that he could make that happen, he said he doesn’t have to sign the closing papers, he accused me of being passive aggressive and controlling like I was in the place we moved to because I asked that we not discuss adult topics in front of the kids, he accused me of talking to “whoever” I was talking to about our issues (my counselor). I really tried to remain neutral which pissed him off. I said I didn’t wan to talk in front of the kids, that we needed to set aside time when they couldn’t hear. I did remind him that he asked for space 3 weeks ago and that’s why we haven’t talked about the marriage and now he’s demanding we talk about the marriage. I ended up leaving the house with D to take her to playdate. I was shaking. I’m still emotional.
I did validate and reflect back to him that he must be frustrated, that was one of my strong points in the interaction. It’s so hard to remain calm especially when he threatens to leave and starts being critical of me.
That sukks. Unfortunately, I am afraid that it is likely to get more difficult, before it gets easier.
If he wants to talk about the marriage, I don't think it's the worst thing in the world. However, he needs to be calm. If he wants to start ranting and raving, set your boundary. You can validate his feelings, let him know you will continue the convos when things are calm and leave the room. If he is calm, listen and validate. If he wants to know of something that you are uncertain of, let him know you'd like to think about it and get back to him.
He knows that he can cause you to be upset when he says certain things. You are aware of this and aren't taking the bait. You are doing great. It is hard, but don't fuel his anger. Take some deep breaths. You got this.
Hi L, thanks again,
I just feel like now and before for a few years, the kids and I have dealt with his anger. And sometimes it’s like walking on eggshells, it feel destructive. But he thinks disciplining the kids included yelling at the kids sometimes, I’m not saying I don’t have a temper sometimes when dealing with the kids, but his seems to have an added element of biting remarks. I’ve told him before I dont like it but he doesn’t seem to see it as bad. I’ve talked to him about his anger and he says, at least before, that’s he’s addressing it.
His anger gives me a pit in my stomach.
That sukks. Unfortunately, I am afraid that it is likely to get more difficult, before it gets easier.
If he wants to talk about the marriage, I don't think it's the worst thing in the world. However, he needs to be calm. If he wants to start ranting and raving, set your boundary. You can validate his feelings, let him know you will continue the convos when things are calm and leave the room. If he is calm, listen and validate. If he wants to know of something that you are uncertain of, let him know you'd like to think about it and get back to him.
He knows that he can cause you to be upset when he says certain things.
^^^THIS^^^
You are aware of this and aren't taking the bait. You are doing great. It is hard, but don't fuel his anger. Take some deep breaths. You got this.
Venting/Update:
Today was an up and down day, H started a convo on feelings and the events of the move. H wanted to know how I was doing, and I kept it nonchalant at first. He then shared more on how he was feeling and the reasons he saw for the move failing. He kept referring to the reasons as things that we both did but it had a quality of “blameyness” towards me. I didn’t say anything in response, I just listened and validated. I did express some of my unhappiness, and some of the reasons I felt the move didn’t work. We are still somewhat at odds in our perspective. He did ask me a baiting question and again I answered as nonchalantly as possible, and I felt more blame was being put on me for the move failing. I really wanted to lash out but I didn’t.
I talked to my counselor and she was suggesting I point blank ask him if he thinks I’m fully to blame, and that I should tell him that I feel less important than his mother, who he has been emotionally supporting the last few weeks (and he’s been incredibly distant from me and that hurts).
So, this advice seems to be counterintuitive to what I hear here. Thoughts?
The night ended with him being pissed off by a work related email that somehow he turned into my fault by the magic of irrational thinking! I was screaming in my head, if you hate what you do for a job then do something about it, that doesn’t include a drastic and traumatic change!!, and stop blaming me for your unhappiness!!! Of course I didn’t say that out loud, I just left the room.
He kept referring to the reasons as things that we both did but it had a quality of “blameyness” towards me. I didn’t say anything in response, I just listened and validated.
Good. Keep in mind validation isn't about accepting fault, it is merely acknowledging he has feelings. Personally I feel there is a line though, I don't believe in validating EVERYTHING a WAS says. Sometimes they can be downright mean in their blamestorming and I don't think that's an appropriate time to validate. So listen, validate, and if he just keeps up the blaming then cut it short and find something else to do.
I did express some of my unhappiness, and some of the reasons I felt the move didn’t work.
He doesn't care. Sad but true, he just doesn't care about your feelings right now. So don't share them, not with him.
I really wanted to lash out but I didn’t.
Good! Be the lighthouse!
I talked to my counselor and she was suggesting I point blank ask him if he thinks I’m fully to blame, and that I should tell him that I feel less important than his mother, who he has been emotionally supporting the last few weeks (and he’s been incredibly distant from me and that hurts).
So, this advice seems to be counterintuitive to what I hear here. Thoughts?
Not many counselors are familiar with DB'ing and it's not unusual for things they suggest to conflict with it. I think her advice is not taking into account that he is completely checked out of the M. His response is likely to be something you don't want to hear such as that his mother IS more important, or that you are constantly holding his love for his mother over his head and applying too much pressure and this is why it will never work blah blah blah. None of it means anything because it's just spew, it's just how he feels at that very moment.
The night ended with him being pissed off by a work related email that somehow he turned into my fault by the magic of irrational thinking! I was screaming in my head, if you hate what you do for a job then do something about it, that doesn’t include a drastic and traumatic change!!, and stop blaming me for your unhappiness!!! Of course I didn’t say that out loud, I just left the room.
Good, leaving the room without comment was a perfect response.
Hi AS,
Thanks for your response. I think I’m getting tripped up because H isn't walking out the door and he’s not asking for S or D, guess he’s not full blown WAS or MLC, he’s just angry and unhappy, largely due to the move not working and he was saying that my emotional reactions and unwillingness to work harder or try harder to make it work were the largest reasons why it failed. So, naturally I am questioning myself, and taking on the blame. He’s made me the enemy.
But in my original thread I said that the feasibility for staying just wasn’t happening and we all needed stability especially the kids. H thinks stability could have been built over a longer period of time but my feelings were that the risk was too great. H had been trying to bait me into admitting that I never wanted to move, which isn’t true, I had some reservations but I was on board. H thinks I was too negative when we were there and that’s the reason it didn’t work out.
But all I can say in myself is that I’m relieved we moved back, the kids are in stable school situations, we have a house and I have a job to help contribute. But H is deeply unhappy. Another thing he said was something along the lines that I wasnt willing to sacrifice and work hard to stay there, but this doesn’t take into account all the crap that happened and the lack of a stable plan.
It’s frustrating being the “bad one” and very disheartening
Hi Phoenix,
It is important to own your part and YOUR PART ONLY. You are doing so.
Try not to get so hung up on the move, that you are owning it ALL. Your H obviously had a say in the move to/from the UK. He wasn't completely voiceless.
Now that is in the past. You can only validate his feelings on the same issue for so long. At some point, things will need to change.
Perhaps:
"I am sorry you feel that way. If I could do it over, I would do it differently. Unfortunately I cannot, however I will do my best to make changes going forward."
Next time he brings it up.
"I have already apologized. Nothing is going to change the past by rehashing it over and over again." Then leave the room.
Sometimes I feel like we try to be so perfect in our DB'ing efforts, that we are walking on eggshells trying not to screw up. There is no magic bullet. You will find that some things will work and some things will not. When they don't work, dust yourself off and keep going.
Thanks L,
Definitely easier said than done.
Today was definitely not an easy day, and I really didn’t do well at listening or validating. I did a bit but also displayed defensiveness, anger and some silence. We closed on our house today. What normally should be a joyous occasion was not really. We talked a lot today, which started off good but devolved into H pointing out all my faults, defending his family’s behaviors towards me and not owning any of his part in it. So, I got defensive and I’m still angry, and then he comes up to me tonight wanting to see how I’m doing. Really??? You just ripped me apart and you want to see how I’m feeling. DUH!
Im frustrated and tired
Ok, I could use a 2x4 please.
H has said that now he has come back and sacrificed his dream to come back, that he will be planning regular trips to go back to his family, and that these will include solo trips, trips with our oldest and or trips with our two sons, and maybe eventually a whole family trip (as long as I play nice)
It brings up feelings in me of resentfulness, anger and jealousy and feeling like I’m on the outside of him and his family.
So, give it to me straight, and any advice to handle that. I realize these feelings may be a little off and I’m trying to display a more mature response.
Thanks
Hi Phoenix,
I think most of us would have similar feelings. This isn't something that will likely happen next week or in the next couple of months. I wouldn't get too hung up on that at the moment. For now, take one day at a time. Try to relax and breath, otherwise you are going to overwhelm yourself.
I don't think it would be productive to continue a discussion about his travel plans now, unless he is buying airline tickets. My suggestion would be to focus on today.
Update:
Hi all,
It’s been a couple of weeks since I posted. We moved into our new home, it does need cosmetic work and some remodeling, but a lot of that can be done over time. However, H isnt happy about that, but he’s steadily doing the work. We’ve had some calm times and some good times, with few blow outs. The kids are settling into school again which is good.
However, today, I knew something was off with him. I finally asked him this evening if something was upsetting him. And he spewed. How unhappy he was, how he’s doesn’t want to be here, he’s back in the same situation, he has no career prospects here, he’s an outsider in my side of the family (not true), why didn’t I try to be more positive after we moved, blame, blame, blame. I pretty much just stood there and listened. I knew there wasn’t anything I could say that would make a difference. So I left to get my oldest at his friends house and the friends mom happens to be one of my best friends, so I stayed to have a nice chat. I came home and he’s still in a frosty, foul mood. And he’s been talking to his family on text all day. So I have no idea what they’re saying to him. But I get [censored] on because he doesn’t want to look within himself for the answers.
One concerning thing that does keep popping up is that he’s had some panic moments, and expressed he’s heard into a depression. What do I do? How do I help? I think he needs professional help.
^^^ sorry about the censored word! I didn’t realize I typed that