Hi,
I have been married 18 years and have two daughters. It's never been a happy marriage and I do take ownership for my role in contributing to the downfall of the marriage. None of us got marriage counseling and we should have done. Instead my wife allowed resentment, bitterness and disrespect to build up in her over the years,.
She recently connected with a friend who is also in an unhappy marriage and cheating on her husband. This friend of hers encouraged her to ask me for an open marriage and I refused. I moved out of the MBR and into the spare room once she dropped the bomb.
I since found out she cheated on me a few weeks after the BD. I confronted her with the evidence and it's undeniable. I have successfully stopped this affair but it doesn't mean she won't try again as she told me she wants to start dating next year. My kids know about the separation but not the affair.
We both own the house and she has offered to buy me out. She fits the typical WW mindset. Some of what she has said to me is outrageous. We currently have an in-house separation and after some initial fights we get on reasonably well.
She told me she considers herself a "single woman" and that she intends to date other men. This is someone who once had good values and morals.
I have been following Sandi's list and trying to do a 180. I do love my wife and I do want to reconcile but WW does not want any of it.
Some of the things she has said to me over the last few weeks:
"What if my future partner offers to buy you out?" "How can I move on if you're still living here?"
I told her I eventually want 50/50 child custody and she says it should be weeks for her and weekends for me as I would have "more contact hours." - I said that is not 50/50 - more like 78/22.
I told her I wanted to buy a 3 bedroom house once she buys me out and she said "why do you need 3 bedrooms? Why can't the kids have bunk beds and share a bedroom?" - I was like WTF - what right do you have to tell me how many bedrooms I should have,
So that's my situation so far - I have since stopped doing anything I usually do for her and have kept contact to emails only.
Me 45 Wife 45
M18
D14 D13
BD 9/15/19
A 10/16/19
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I have been married 18 years and have two daughters. It's never been a happy marriage and I do take ownership for my role in contributing to the downfall of the marriage. None of us got marriage counseling and we should have done. Instead my wife allowed resentment, bitterness and disrespect to build up in her over the years,.
Hi Drh,
Welcome to the boards. Please read and re-read the plethora of information posted to you by Cadet. The wisdom is priceless.
"It's never been a happy marriage" really jumped out at me. To me, this is where the digging begins. You said you own your role. What role did you play in the downfall of your marriage? Looking back, what would you do differently?
You have 18+ years of history with your W, which is a long time to be in an unhappy M/R. I'm sure there is happiness in there somewhere. Independent of one another, are either of you happy(perhaps before Marriage)? What attracted you to each other? What is different now, from then?
Here's the thing, the affair is/was a symptom of the problems within the M/R. It took years for the wheels to completely fall off, so bring your patience.
The changes begin with you. I will emphasis these changes are for YOU, because you will be better off when you come out the other side with/without your W. Identify poor habits/behaviors and address. Work to get to your happy place.
Whatever you do don't move out.
I have suffered with depression for many years and it has been difficult for me to express myself to her. There wasn't much in the way of physical affection.
We didn't have a lot in common but we found things to do together like travel. We met on an internet forum - it was a long distance relationship.
kas99 - I'm not moving out until I have to - keeping all my options open right now.
I have suffered with depression for many years and it has been difficult for me to express myself to her. There wasn't much in the way of physical affection.
We didn't have a lot in common but we found things to do together like travel. We met on an internet forum - it was a long distance relationship.
Are you or do you plan on getting help for your depression?
Woodchipper....lol.. Sorry you are here. We have all heard the same exact delusional commentary from WAS's and WS's REMEMBER YOU ARE NOT THE ONE HOLDING RESENTMENT. YOU ATE NOT THE ONE WHO LEFY TGE M and YOU ARE NOT THE ONE WHO CHEATED. Your BD is my S2's birthday. Tough love. Set boundaries for your protection. Get counciling and get well. Grow some patience. GAL and make YOURSELF PRIORITY #1. Let them come to you. They haven't hit rock bottom yet.
Yes I am finally getting help for depression.
I have limited necessary communications with WW to email and only about finances and the kids.
She is completely delusional and thinks what she did is not cheating if she told me she separated already, We live at the same address. She hadn't even met the guy she cheated with. It was a grubby little fling in a hotel.
Thank you IHCLACS for your advice, Much appreciated,
I have been married 18 years and have two daughters. It's never been a happy marriage and I do take ownership for my role in contributing to the downfall of the marriage. None of us got marriage counseling and we should have done. Instead my wife allowed resentment, bitterness and disrespect to build up in her over the years,.
Hi Drh,
Welcome to the boards. Please read and re-read the plethora of information posted to you by Cadet. The wisdom is priceless.
"It's never been a happy marriage" really jumped out at me. To me, this is where the digging begins. You said you own your role. What role did you play in the downfall of your marriage? Looking back, what would you do differently?
You have 18+ years of history with your W, which is a long time to be in an unhappy M/R. I'm sure there is happiness in there somewhere. Independent of one another, are either of you happy(perhaps before Marriage)? What attracted you to each other? What is different now, from then?
Here's the thing, the affair is/was a symptom of the problems within the M/R. It took years for the wheels to completely fall off, so bring your patience.
The changes begin with you. I will emphasis these changes are for YOU, because you will be better off when you come out the other side with/without your W. Identify poor habits/behaviors and address. Work to get to your happy place.
I would have made more of an effort to be physically affectionate and open up to her. We should have got counselling. She did encourage me to do this several years ago and I didn't. I didn't feel comfortable opening up to strangers. I was raised in a strict religious environment.
I can tell that you are uncomfortable opening up. If you truly want to experience change, you will need to become comfortable feeling uncomfortable. Many times we fear change because of the unknown, however there is power in vulnerability.
How motivated are you to become the best you, you can be? This will require overcoming obstacles that might look impossible. Believe, trust the process and use fear as motivation.....not an obstacle.
So after a peaceful few days WW decides to go mental and tells me (we have a live in separation) that she wants to meet a guy who has kids but doesn't want more kids. We have two children.
She has completely changed - I do feel like the woman I'm married too is not the woman I married.
Is this normal for a WW?
I can tell that you are uncomfortable opening up. If you truly want to experience change, you will need to become comfortable feeling uncomfortable. Many times we fear change because of the unknown, however there is power in vulnerability.
How motivated are you to become the best you, you can be? This will require overcoming obstacles that might look impossible. Believe, trust the process and use fear as motivation.....not an obstacle.
LITB, I am very motivated to become the best I can be. For too long I've been complacent and not making serious changes in my life.
So after a peaceful few days WW decides to go mental and tells me (we have a live in separation) that she wants to meet a guy who has kids but doesn't want more kids. We have two children.
She has completely changed - I do feel like the woman I'm married too is not the woman I married.
Is this normal for a WW?
Hi D,
Yes sir, it is normal for a WW to say some crazy things. She isn't the woman you married, at the moment. Let her be.
In the meantime, what have you been up to? How's your GAL activity going? Do you have a list of new things you might do in the upcoming New Year?
Yes, I have a lot of goals. I want to go to the gym. It's been years since I've done any sort of workout. I want to travel more. I made a new friend recently who's making his own music. I want to finish a book I've been writing. Most important I want to read the book suggestions on this forum.
Those are solid plans. Nothing to it, but to do it.
Wishing you a Happy & Healthy 2020!!
So in doing the 180 I told WW that if she is golng to start dating again then I would no longer invite her on trips out with my kids. I told her it's disrespectful of her to play happy families and keep company with me when she doesn't want me in her life anymore. She didn't like it and told me don't you think the girls would want their mom with them. I stood my ground and told her she can't be seeing other men and hanging out with me and my kids. That goes for vacations too.
I'm starting to let go and worry less about what she is doing and focus more on myself.
Drh, why did you give up the MBR?
We had relatives stay with us for a while and it wasn't an option for me as she dropped the bomb then. I didn't want to create a huge scene. This is before I discovered the DB forum.
We had relatives stay with us for a while and it wasn't an option for me as she dropped the bomb then. I didn't want to create a huge scene. This is before I discovered the DB forum.
Are you willing to take it back? Since she is cheating on you I would not only suggest going back to the MBR but letting her know she is no longer welcome in it until she proves she is not sleeping with OM.
So in doing the 180 I told WW that if she is golng to start dating again then I would no longer invite her on trips out with my kids. I told her it's disrespectful of her to play happy families and keep company with me when she doesn't want me in her life anymore. She didn't like it and told me don't you think the girls would want their mom with them. I stood my ground and told her she can't be seeing other men and hanging out with me and my kids. That goes for vacations too.
That's fine but be careful that you don't cross over the line into using the kids against her. I completely understand not wanting to have shared vacations, but when you say things like "she can't be seeing other men and hanging out with me and my kids" they are her kids too and whether she's dating or not the kids need her and need their time with her as well as time with you. Don't deprive them of their mother no matter how you're feeling about things. Unless of course there's some kind of abuse, violence or exposure to drugs taking place.
Good job. Less words is always better. Don't be rude or bitter sounding. Keep it business.
If she gets to barking at you then just exit the room, house, or situation.
What are you 180s and how are you progressing on them?
We had relatives stay with us for a while and it wasn't an option for me as she dropped the bomb then. I didn't want to create a huge scene. This is before I discovered the DB forum.
Are you willing to take it back? Since she is cheating on you I would not only suggest going back to the MBR but letting her know she is no longer welcome in it until she proves she is not sleeping with OM.
Unfortunately the time has passed for this as we have designated private areas with the MBR being hers and the downstairs bedroom being where I sleep.
So in doing the 180 I told WW that if she is golng to start dating again then I would no longer invite her on trips out with my kids. I told her it's disrespectful of her to play happy families and keep company with me when she doesn't want me in her life anymore. She didn't like it and told me don't you think the girls would want their mom with them. I stood my ground and told her she can't be seeing other men and hanging out with me and my kids. That goes for vacations too.
That's fine but be careful that you don't cross over the line into using the kids against her. I completely understand not wanting to have shared vacations, but when you say things like "she can't be seeing other men and hanging out with me and my kids" they are her kids too and whether she's dating or not the kids need her and need their time with her as well as time with you. Don't deprive them of their mother no matter how you're feeling about things. Unless of course there's some kind of abuse, violence or exposure to drugs taking place.
I will definitely bear that in mind. She is always free to take the kids out and spend time with them - just not with me - but I will take your advice.
Good job. Less words is always better. Don't be rude or bitter sounding. Keep it business.
If she gets to barking at you then just exit the room, house, or situation.
What are you 180s and how are you progressing on them?
My 180s are detachment, email only communication about the kids / finances, no longer initiating R talk. I need to learn to shut up and walk away and not prolong a conversation she initiates.
We had relatives stay with us for a while and it wasn't an option for me as she dropped the bomb then. I didn't want to create a huge scene. This is before I discovered the DB forum.
Are you willing to take it back? Since she is cheating on you I would not only suggest going back to the MBR but letting her know she is no longer welcome in it until she proves she is not sleeping with OM.
Unfortunately the time has passed for this as we have designated private areas with the MBR being hers and the downstairs bedroom being where I sleep.
Is that the old Drh talking? Or the new and improved Drh talking?
Think about it, what would your W think if you went home tonight and took back the MBR? Would she be angry? Probably. Would she pitch a fit? Probably. Would she protest vehemently? Absolutely.
But she'd also see a man that is standing up for himself. Commanding respect. That was cheated on and eventually said "I am not the one at fault here, you are, so YOU should sleep in the basement!"
Just a thought.
P.S. What have you got to lose?
P.S. What have you got to lose?
If I had found the forum in time I could have done this but it's part of the inhouse separation agreement. And because she is a WW she could act rashly or do something that causes me great harm.
I will definitely bear that in mind. She is always free to take the kids out and spend time with them - just not with me - but I will take your advice.
Good, and to be clear I am in complete agreement that you should avoid "family" outings with her. And I'm also not saying to force her to spend time with the kids. Just don't stand in her way if she chooses to.
It's been about 4 weeks since I started doing 180s and GAL. I keep communication outside the house to email only and only concerning kids/finances.
Yesterday when I got home, WW wanted to talk to me about her job and the ppl she worked with. She seemed interested in talking to me. I was polite but instead of talking a lot I took the advice given here to keep my words few.
Usually when I talk to WW, it's selfishly one-sided from her - she has zero to little interest in anything I have to say about my day or my interests and this was the first time I decided not to talk about myself.
Without reading anything into this, I guess this is part of the detachment effect of pulling away?
We had a blazing row last night. WW said she didn't know if she could commit to the separation agreement beacause, in her own words, "what if I fall in love?"
I told her we signed an agreement, that she would get a better job and buy me out the house, and the ink has hardly dried before she starts coming up with reasons not to honor it.
Then she said she wants to be able to bring her new partner to the house to meet our kids. I said this is not in the agreement and I won't permit a strange man to come to the house while I am living here.
She then told me she didn't cheat on me that time in November and I told her she did, that we are still married and live at the same address and she can call it anything she wants - she cheated on me.
WW is completely delusional. I am fully prepared to expose her to her family if she defaults on the agreement. She hasn't told anyone yet.
I admit I should have just walked away instead of engaging in a shouting match.
Not sure where to go from here.
Sounds like a pretty productive meeting. What exactly are your goals?
Why do people think there are rules to separation? There aren’t even rules to marriage.
Sounds like a pretty productive meeting. What exactly are your goals?
Why do people think there are rules to separation? There aren’t even rules to marriage.
LH19, I would like to save the marriage but have stopped all pursuing and R talks. I'm doing 180s and GAL. It takes time to put this all in place.
We had a blazing row last night. WW said she didn't know if she could commit to the separation agreement beacause, in her own words, "what if I fall in love?"
I looked back through your thread but could not find where you talked about a separation agreement, were you trying to get her to agree not to date while separated? If so then you can't really enforce that. We were just discussing this in another thread but when you separate you can't realistically establish relationship rules in S, because there isn't a relationship anymore.
I am fully prepared to expose her to her family if she defaults on the agreement. She hasn't told anyone yet.
For what purpose? Revenge? It won't do any good. Her family will side with her no matter what. You'll end up looking like the bad guy (petty, vindictive, etc. etc.) if you try to "out" her.
Not sure where to go from here.
Give yourself some time to settle down and think about things more clearly. Use time effectively.
D,
This is going to take a really long time to play itself out.
AnotherStander,
We signed the agreement at the beginning of the year. It does allow dating but not bringing dates back to the house.
You're prob right about exposure. I need to think on this.
I'm going to stay out of her way - as it is I avoid being in the same room as her.
LH19, Unfortunately I have to agree with you.
Are you in a nesting arrangement?
Are you in a nesting arrangement?
No, it's an in-house agreement.
So your in house separation and she wants to bring a dude over WTF?????
So your in house separation and she wants to bring a dude over WTF?????
She told me she wants to start dating immediately - started dieting and created a dating profile.
I can't control her behavior but I can only control my actions which are difficult when she is having "buyers remorse" over a document that she agreed and signed with me
She even told me she wants a guy who has kids but doesn't want anymore kids.
She's totally off the wall if you ask me.
Oh boy! She has no respect for you. Have you asked her to move out?
Oh boy! She has no respect for you. Have you asked her to move out?
I did and she said she doesn't want to leave the kids! She said "where will I go?" She wants to have her cake and eat it. I agreed to be bought out so the kids have stability.
She did tell me she feels guilty for breaking up the family.
Sooooo she goes out on a date and brings a dude home and you what go for a walk around the block? I’m trying to understand the dynamic here.
that's why I'm wondering if some sort of exposure would shake her out of her mindset?
Well that’s nice she has a conscious.
You can’t shake her out of it.
Sooooo she goes out on a date and brings a dude home and you what go for a walk around the block? I’m trying to understand the dynamic here.
She hasn't brought home anyone yet. It was agreed that we would not bring casual dates to the house but who defines what is casual?
What am I supposed to do while I am still at the house when WW decides to bring another man home?
You can’t shake her out of it.
I get that - and I'm not leaving the house unless forced to.
You tell me dude you agreed to this. I would never agree to share my w with someone if I was married.
Well then tell her that unless some dude wants a baseball bat to the neck then I wouldn’t bring another dude home.
Well then tell her that unless some dude wants a baseball bat to the neck then I wouldn’t bring another dude home.
I told her he would leave headfirst
You tell me dude you agreed to this. I would never agree to share my w with someone if I was married.
She told me a few months ago "I'm a single woman."
When they're wayward if doesn't matter what is said - she has the mindset where she could ruin everything for me and my kids. And she has plenty of friends egging her on.
One of her friends told her to ask me for an open marriage. I said no. The in-house separation allows us to co-parent while leading independent lives - and it only works if both parties cooperate.
I get you can’t control her but you certainly can protect yourself. Have you read up on boundaries?
How can she ruin everything for you and the kids?
I get you can’t control her but you certainly can protect yourself. Have you read up on boundaries?
How can she ruin everything for you and the kids?
I am going to start reading up on boundaries. She could sell the house, although she would need my permission to do so. She could threaten D. All sorts of things really. My kids would be devastated. They're having a hard time adjusting to the separation.
I get you can’t control her but you certainly can protect yourself. Have you read up on boundaries?
How can she ruin everything for you and the kids?
I had thought about selling the house (which she really loves) but listing it at a price no one would buy - consider it shock and awe. I'd have a couple of realtors come round and assess it while she is there.
Oh boy. Don’t bother with boundaries because you won’t set them anyway. Your acting out a fear and that is never going to end well. Once she finds your replacement she’s gonna D you anyway. Your best bet is to call her on her BS see a lawyer and figure out what your options are moving forward. Are you in a no fault state?
Your kids will be fine if they have a dad who is their rock and they will respect you for not compromising your values.
Oh boy. Don’t bother with boundaries because you won’t set them anyway. Your acting out a fear and that is never going to end well. Once she finds your replacement she’s gonna D you anyway. Your best bet is to call her on her BS see a lawyer and figure out what your options are moving forward. Are you in a no fault state?
Your kids will be fine if they have a dad who is their rock and they will respect you for not compromising your values.
The state I live in is both fault and no-fault. Yes, there is a certain fear there - mostly for what will become of my kids. I am going to get a consult.
I have an appointment with one soon.
We signed the agreement at the beginning of the year. It does allow dating but not bringing dates back to the house.
Oh OK, so this is an in-house separation agreement. I thought the two of you were living apart. I can certainly understand stipulating that you can't bring a date home, and wow, that's pretty crazy that she wants to. Seems that you are dealing with a full-blown wayward who could go GGW at any moment. You may be in for a very rough ride ahead.
I'm going to stay out of her way - as it is I avoid being in the same room as her.
Good, keep that up.
I can't control her behavior but I can only control my actions which are difficult when she is having "buyers remorse" over a document that she agreed and signed with me
WW's often behave like rebellious teens. You set boundaries and they immediately test them. You make agreements and they agree, then ignore and break them. So you've got to ask yourself what your end game is. How are you going to deal with this mess? The way I see it you have two options- 1. continue the in-house separation and treat her as nothing more than a roommate. Do this and you risk you and (worse) your kids being exposed to all kinds of awful behavior. 2. file for divorce and sell the house. There really isn't any in-between scenario, you simply can't negotiate with her because it's like negotiating with a terrorist. You can negotiate all you want but at the end of the day she is going to continue her reign of terror regardless, and it just makes you look weak and powerless to her.
She told me a few months ago "I'm a single woman."
I would be inclined to grant her wish.
Good!
If you want to turn this around she has to respect you and for that to happen you need to first love and respect yourself.
We signed the agreement at the beginning of the year. It does allow dating but not bringing dates back to the house.
Oh OK, so this is an in-house separation agreement. I thought the two of you were living apart. I can certainly understand stipulating that you can't bring a date home, and wow, that's pretty crazy that she wants to. Seems that you are dealing with a full-blown wayward who could go GGW at any moment. You may be in for a very rough ride ahead.
I'm going to stay out of her way - as it is I avoid being in the same room as her.
Good, keep that up.
I can't control her behavior but I can only control my actions which are difficult when she is having "buyers remorse" over a document that she agreed and signed with me
WW's often behave like rebellious teens. You set boundaries and they immediately test them. You make agreements and they agree, then ignore and break them. So you've got to ask yourself what your end game is. How are you going to deal with this mess? The way I see it you have two options- 1. continue the in-house separation and treat her as nothing more than a roommate. Do this and you risk you and (worse) your kids being exposed to all kinds of awful behavior. 2. file for divorce and sell the house. There really isn't any in-between scenario, you simply can't negotiate with her because it's like negotiating with a terrorist. You can negotiate all you want but at the end of the day she is going to continue her reign of terror regardless, and it just makes you look weak and powerless to her.
She told me a few months ago "I'm a single woman."
I would be inclined to grant her wish.
Thankyou AnotherStander for your advice. Certainly a lot to consider. She is completely crazy. I'm going to get legal advice and consider my options.
Good!
If you want to turn this around she has to respect you and for that to happen you need to first love and respect yourself.
It's going to be a marathon trying to do this. I'm willing to do the work.
Good luck! We are here for you.
It's going to be a marathon trying to do this. I'm willing to do the work.
Slow down Drh. You are hanging on so tight, it is causing your emotions to roller coaster. You want to be even keel.
It is going to be a marathon. I'm sure you have heard the safety briefing before a flight departs?
Should the cabin experience sudden pressure loss, stay calm and listen for instructions from the cabin crew. Oxygen masks will drop down from above your seat. Place the mask over your mouth and nose. Pull the strap to tighten it. If you are traveling with children, make sure that your own mask is on first before helping your children.
The same idea applies here. You have to secure your oxygen first. Like you mentioned above, you are willing to do the work. You will discover there are no short cut to the other side of this $hit hole. Only through it. Get busy getting that oxygen mask on.
That means, learn how to be patient, detach, gain confidence, etc. Essentially become a master of self-improvement. Like anything else worth having, it takes time, and a lot of effort. You will stumble along the way. Not a big deal. Rise up, dust yourself off and keep going.
Last, hell no can she bring OM into your shared residence.
WW told me she has a dating profile and it's getting lots of attention. She insists on telling me the details because she doesn't want to be lying and deceitful about her comings and goings.
I told her I don't want to know and it's disrespectful of her to talk to me like this.
Suggestions?
I think you responded well. Hopefully you don't have the convo again.
I have a question for the forum.
When a WW is cheating does she feel any guilt for hiding her activities from her children and husband? Does she know what she is doing is wrong? Or does she find ways to justify her continued betrayals.
When a WW is cheating does she feel any guilt for hiding her activities from her children and husband? Does she know what she is doing is wrong? Or does she find ways to justify her continued betrayals.
Yes, yes and yes.
D,
In her defense she’s not hiding it. You agreed to an open marriage.
D,
In her defense she’s not hiding it. You agreed to an open marriage.
I have no intention of seeing anyone else. She wanted the freedom to. I didn't feel I had much of an option as she was making threats of D and selling the house which would devastate both my kids. It's an in-house separation.
I should add that the intention of this in-house separation is for her to eventually buy out my share of the house and for me to have 50/50 joint custody of the kids.
D,
Reading your response really fuching chaps my hide.
YES willing sharing your W with other Men is an open marriage. You’re allowing someone else in. Hence the term open. It’s despicable. She’s going to find someone else who’s stronger and not willing to share her and D you anyways so you mine as well drop your testicles and tell her no way this is happening and let the chips fall where they lie.
Sorry this is harsh but come on man!
D,
Reading your response really fuching chaps my hide.
YES willing sharing your W with other Men is an open marriage. You’re allowing someone else in. Hence the term open. It’s despicable. She’s going to find someone else who’s stronger and not willing to share her and D you anyways so you mine as well drop your testicles and tell her no way this is happening and let the chips fall where they lie.
Sorry this is harsh but come on man!
I will give what you said a lot of thought. Thanks for your candid reply.
You got it buddy. I’m not discounting this is hard but strength and respect are the only things that give you a chance.
I have no intention of seeing anyone else. She wanted the freedom to. I didn't feel I had much of an option as she was making threats of D and selling the house which would devastate both my kids. It's an in-house separation.
I think you have to ask yourself what you're saving by doing so though. It's an in-house separation where she has free reign to entertain other men. I understand your desire not to break up the home, but surely you're not OK with being roommates indefinitely? And is that really healthy for your kids? Seeing mom run around with strange men? I was in my early teens when my mom started her GGW lifestyle and I can't even begin to tell you how badly it tore me up inside. The divorce was tough enough, but seeing her behave like that was far worse. You really shouldn't do anything to endorse that kind of behavior.
I should add that the intention of this in-house separation is for her to eventually buy out my share of the house and for me to have 50/50 joint custody of the kids.
Well that may be your intention, but she may be content just to continue on as roommates indefinitely with you paying half her bills while she sows her wild oats. It's just extremely disrespectful to you AND the kids, I don't think you should tolerate it.
If my WW would have asked to bring another dude home, I would have laughed in her face and tell her whatever she does outside of the house is her business, but once she brings it home, it's my business too...
As far as the separation agreement, who cares? She's going to do whatever she wants anyway. Tear the damn thing up and take back the MBR...
And DO NOT let her hold filing for D and selling the house over you. Tell her she's more than welcome to do that if she thinks that's what she needs to do...
Also, stop thinking about listing the house and having realtors come over in an effort to shake her. She'll know what you're trying to do...
If my WW would have asked to bring another dude home, I would have laughed in her face and tell her whatever she does outside of the house is her business, but once she brings it home, it's my business too...
As far as the separation agreement, who cares? She's going to do whatever she wants anyway. Tear the damn thing up and take back the MBR...
And DO NOT let her hold filing for D and selling the house over you. Tell her she's more than welcome to do that if she thinks that's what she needs to do...
Also, stop thinking about listing the house and having realtors come over in an effort to shake her. She'll know what you're trying to do...
I told her I won't allow another man to come into the home. That's my boundary,
I have no intention of seeing anyone else. She wanted the freedom to. I didn't feel I had much of an option as she was making threats of D and selling the house which would devastate both my kids. It's an in-house separation.
I think you have to ask yourself what you're saving by doing so though. It's an in-house separation where she has free reign to entertain other men. I understand your desire not to break up the home, but surely you're not OK with being roommates indefinitely? And is that really healthy for your kids? Seeing mom run around with strange men? I was in my early teens when my mom started her GGW lifestyle and I can't even begin to tell you how badly it tore me up inside. The divorce was tough enough, but seeing her behave like that was far worse. You really shouldn't do anything to endorse that kind of behavior.
I should add that the intention of this in-house separation is for her to eventually buy out my share of the house and for me to have 50/50 joint custody of the kids.
Well that may be your intention, but she may be content just to continue on as roommates indefinitely with you paying half her bills while she sows her wild oats. It's just extremely disrespectful to you AND the kids, I don't think you should tolerate it.
I'm giving what you said a lot of thought. She will do whatever she wants, even at the cost of the kids. As Sandi2 said, that's her selfishness leading her. I did tell her she is not to behave like GGW in front of the kids. And they are not to know what she is doing.
I'm not OK being room mates indefinitely - she is looking for another job so she can afford to refinance. I am hoping this won't take too long. She can't do it right now on her salary.
If she does break the agreement I will file D which is something I am looking into.
I'm already looking at homes to rent/buy so I'm not standing still just waiting.
In the meantime I'm doing 180s and GAL.
If my WW would have asked to bring another dude home, I would have laughed in her face and tell her whatever she does outside of the house is her business, but once she brings it home, it's my business too...
As far as the separation agreement, who cares? She's going to do whatever she wants anyway. Tear the damn thing up and take back the MBR...
And DO NOT let her hold filing for D and selling the house over you. Tell her she's more than welcome to do that if she thinks that's what she needs to do...
Also, stop thinking about listing the house and having realtors come over in an effort to shake her. She'll know what you're trying to do...
Thank you mtb1981 for the advice. I will tell her this if she tries to bring another dude to the house. Taking back the MBR is a bit late now - we had a relative staying with us when she did the BD. And I hadn't found this forum yet. I knew nothing about DB.
Why is it too late? It's your BR isn't it? Is your stuff still in there? Even if it's not... move the heck back in! (At least if you want to have any shot at all of this thing resolving in your favor.)
And you don't be a jerk about it-- just calmly and confidently do it. I am pretty sure others on your thread here have given you insights into how to approach that particular dynamic.
I agree 100% with hoosjim. I get the feeling you have a bad case of NGS. You need to get your gonads back and command some respect. Like he said, you don't need to be a jerk about it. Just explain to her that you've changed your mind if she asks. That it's the MBR, you're going to sleep there, and she can have the room in the basement. It was her choice to have an affair, not yours...
She cheated on you. You moved to the basement. She's still wanting to hook up with other guys. She instills fear in you with the threat and D and selling the house. She's out doing God knows what and you're scared that you'll upset her if you take the MBR back. You look weak to her and she has no respect for you. Things won't change until you stick up for yourself. She can't love you if she doesn't respect you...
And trust me, I know it's hard. It took me awhile to get my gonads back. When I did, that's when things starting changing for the better. Stop trying to appease her and start doing what's best for Drh and your daughters...
Yes, mtb is correct.
And let me add: IT IS NEVER TOO LATE TO DB!!! Or even to implement any particular step/concept of DB.
You want to know what MY low point/nadir/ball-less point was? I'll tell you: Desperate as I was to get back in her good graces, and also completely willingly accepting of the advice of my well-meaning (but woefully misinformed and misguided) buddy... I basically sat my WW down for a relationship talk and, in order to avoid "pressuring" her and in fact take as much pressure as possible off her, told her that I would "release her from her wedding vows." YIKES! This same friend of mine had done just that and said it was "freeing" for him and "opened a new chapter in his relationship with his W" and urged me to do the same! (For those of you who followed my sitch in detail, this is my friend who was a GAL champ, but fell flat on his face in terms of demanding the respect of and properly dealing with his own WW, which WW also happened to be MY ww's bff--- and boy did it blow up in his face: His WW ended up running off with HIS best friend to live on the beach over 1000 miles away and ended up with primary custody of the kids to boot.) At any rate, this "loving, non-controlling" move of mine did NOTHING for my MR. Thankfully, it was not long after that I found this site (or more accurately "returned to" it after my first visit proved confusing and I failed to find the proper "newcomer's" forum) and started to get things turned around. I somewhat shortly thereafter began setting boundaries, one of which was that I would not live in an open MR or share my W with another man. My WW's first objection to this was "but you released me from our vows!" To which I replied: 1) "Such a thing is beyond my power to do and fully in the hands of the almighty" (she is Catholic) and 2) "I wasn't thinking clearly in the immediate aftermath of your betrayal but I am thinking MUCH more clearly, now, thank you!" And that shut that down right damned quick. And we eventually reconciled... but only after she had fully regained her respect for me which required not only the above but, eventually, me completely cutting the cord and walking away from the relationship.
So, look... if I can recover from telling my W she is released from her vows, then you can sure as heck recover from telling her you are leaving the MBR.
Get it together, man! We're all pulling for you but you've got to do the heavy lifting yourself.
Yes, mtb is correct.
And let me add: IT IS NEVER TOO LATE TO DB!!! Or even to implement any particular step/concept of DB.
You want to know what MY low point/nadir/ball-less point was? I'll tell you: Desperate as I was to get back in her good graces, and also completely willingly accepting of the advice of my well-meaning (but woefully misinformed and misguided) buddy... I basically sat my WW down for a relationship talk and, in order to avoid "pressuring" her and in fact take as much pressure as possible off her, told her that I would "release her from her wedding vows." YIKES! This same friend of mine had done just that and said it was "freeing" for him and "opened a new chapter in his relationship with his W" and urged me to do the same! (For those of you who followed my sitch in detail, this is my friend who was a GAL champ, but fell flat on his face in terms of demanding the respect of and properly dealing with his own WW, which WW also happened to be MY ww's bff--- and boy did it blow up in his face: His WW ended up running off with HIS best friend to live on the beach over 1000 miles away and ended up with primary custody of the kids to boot.) At any rate, this "loving, non-controlling" move of mine did NOTHING for my MR. Thankfully, it was not long after that I found this site (or more accurately "returned to" it after my first visit proved confusing and I failed to find the proper "newcomer's" forum) and started to get things turned around. I somewhat shortly thereafter began setting boundaries, one of which was that I would not live in an open MR or share my W with another man. My WW's first objection to this was "but you released me from our vows!" To which I replied: 1) "Such a thing is beyond my power to do and fully in the hands of the almighty" (she is Catholic) and 2) "I wasn't thinking clearly in the immediate aftermath of your betrayal but I am thinking MUCH more clearly, now, thank you!" And that shut that down right damned quick. And we eventually reconciled... but only after she had fully regained her respect for me which required not only the above but, eventually, me completely cutting the cord and walking away from the relationship.
So, look... if I can recover from telling my W she is released from her vows, then you can sure as heck recover from telling her you are leaving the MBR.
Get it together, man! We're all pulling for you but you've got to do the heavy lifting yourself.
Hoosiim, thanks for sharing this and wow, what a messy situation. Glad you got things back on track. I need to rethink my strategy. I am doing 180s and GAL but I find it very difficult to detach. It probably helped that youir wife was Catholic. My WW is a lapsed Christian.
And thanks for the help, I appreciate it.
One of the complaints WW brought to me recently is the reason we stopped fighting for so long is because after we moved house I still kept my job but the commute became 1.5 hrs each way.
I would come home and we'd both be tired and end up watching something on Netflix. So although there were no arguments, she felt disconnected from me and I thought things were ok because no one was fighting.
I also wanted to mention that I did all the finances for WW. She doesn't even open her own mail unless it's a card or an invitation. I've been paying the bills and keeping the lights on since we were married as she wasn't very good at that before we met.
I don't know if I did the right thing - she was happy for me to take care of it - but I see I created someone wholly dependent on me to do everything. She does work f/t and makes average wage. I did her car inspection, topped the fluids up, renewed her registration. Even now she doesn't check the oil level and will tell me if the low oil pressure light comes on. I planned all our vacations - literally all of them. She rarely had an idea about where to take the kids and I regret the few times that she did I didn't take her seriously. Wish I had done otherwise.
Hey Drh,
Sorry you're here buddy. You've got some fantastic vets on your side though.
Re your last post, try not to second guess what you did or did not do right.
I too did the car stuff for my XW - all of it. Heck, I even painted her nails for her! She chose the vacations - I organised them. You see, it seems like you took the lead on big things and did the organising and implementation of the big things and the little things. My XW took the lead on the big things, I mainly took the lead on small day to day things, as well as most of the implementation and organising. Yet, here we still both are.
If she wants you to change the oil and continue to look after her car, next time she asks tell her "I'm busy. I think it's best you take it to Joe's Garage. Here's their number".
Or, if you're content doing it, think about something you can ask her to do in return. There needs to be reciprocity. Do it early. I endured months of giving and accommodating, til I decided give and take is mutual, and there's nothing wrong with asking without offering something immediately in return, and there's nothing wrong with politely and neutrally indicating you wont be doing something they want you to do.
Have you joined the gym yet? Better still, get a home gym, put it in a favourite corner of your home, and create your sanctuary. Get a new stylish age appropriate wardrobe, cut your hair, wear cologne and eat right. Emotional changes are hard to make short term - your appearance can change drastically in the short term though.
I'd also find RobX's threads and posts and read them all. I was inspired by what he did. He's in R2C's quotes thread if you cant search him. Someone suggested you have NGS. Read No More Mr Nice Guy by Dr Robert Glover too.
Good luck mate!
Cheers DS
D,
I get a sense from you that you are the cliche that women say they want in a man. The problem is most women don't even know what they want in a man. It's great that you do all those things for your W but the important question is whether or not it is appreciated or reciprocated? My guess it isn't and that is why she wants to sleep with other man. She wants a man she can't have her way with. BS right? Yep but that's exactly what is happening right now. The beauty for her is she knows if it doesn't work out she has good old fluid topper DRH to fall back on.
How can you change the dynamic of your situation?
D,
I get a sense from you that you are the cliche that women say they want in a man. The problem is most women don't even know what they want in a man. It's great that you do all those things for your W but the important question is whether or not it is appreciated or reciprocated? My guess it isn't and that is why she wants to sleep with other man. She wants a man she can't have her way with. BS right? Yep but that's exactly what is happening right now. The beauty for her is she knows if it doesn't work out she has good old fluid topper DRH to fall back on.
How can you change the dynamic of your situation?
Truth darts from LH here. Drh, as a certain bald TV counselor likes to say: how is what you are doing working for you? Doesn't sound like it is. If you ask 100 women what they want in a guy, 90 of them would talk about sweetness, sensitivity, chivlary. Yet if you look at the kinds of guys that the same 100 women go after in a social setting it is the tough, bad guy that has some mystery, and even some danger, surrounding him.
Maybe you aren't tough or a bad guy or even dangerous. But can you be mysterious? "Sorry, I know your car needs maintenance, but you will have to take it to the shop. I am too busy to do that for you..........."
LH is giving you a formula here to help you change your thinking. I do a lot of things for my friends, both male and femal, without any "attraction" involved. If you are happy being her friend, then keep doing what you are doing. But Google "The friend zone" and decide if that is where you want to reside in your soon-to-be ex-wife's life.
Hey Drh,
Sorry you're here buddy. You've got some fantastic vets on your side though.
Re your last post, try not to second guess what you did or did not do right.
I too did the car stuff for my XW - all of it. Heck, I even painted her nails for her! She chose the vacations - I organised them. You see, it seems like you took the lead on big things and did the organising and implementation of the big things and the little things. My XW took the lead on the big things, I mainly took the lead on small day to day things, as well as most of the implementation and organising. Yet, here we still both are.
If she wants you to change the oil and continue to look after her car, next time she asks tell her "I'm busy. I think it's best you take it to Joe's Garage. Here's their number".
Or, if you're content doing it, think about something you can ask her to do in return. There needs to be reciprocity. Do it early. I endured months of giving and accommodating, til I decided give and take is mutual, and there's nothing wrong with asking without offering something immediately in return, and there's nothing wrong with politely and neutrally indicating you wont be doing something they want you to do.
Have you joined the gym yet? Better still, get a home gym, put it in a favourite corner of your home, and create your sanctuary. Get a new stylish age appropriate wardrobe, cut your hair, wear cologne and eat right. Emotional changes are hard to make short term - your appearance can change drastically in the short term though.
I'd also find RobX's threads and posts and read them all. I was inspired by what he did. He's in R2C's quotes thread if you cant search him. Someone suggested you have NGS. Read No More Mr Nice Guy by Dr Robert Glover too.
Good luck mate!
Cheers DS
I've decided to stop doing all those things I used to do - as it is I don't take her anywhere with me and the kids since she decided to separate. As for the car, she can change her own oil and top up fluids.
There was almost no reciprocity from her now that I think about it. She took me for granted with the expectation I would always do those things.
I am going to join a gym. This month I have been working on 180s. Next month time to work on me.
D,
I get a sense from you that you are the cliche that women say they want in a man. The problem is most women don't even know what they want in a man. It's great that you do all those things for your W but the important question is whether or not it is appreciated or reciprocated? My guess it isn't and that is why she wants to sleep with other man. She wants a man she can't have her way with. BS right? Yep but that's exactly what is happening right now. The beauty for her is she knows if it doesn't work out she has good old fluid topper DRH to fall back on.
How can you change the dynamic of your situation?
You raise a good question. Is it appreciated or reciprocated? I think no to the second. I never asked her for a favor - and she never offered to return my gesture of goodwill.
No more favors from me from now on.
D,
I get a sense from you that you are the cliche that women say they want in a man. The problem is most women don't even know what they want in a man. It's great that you do all those things for your W but the important question is whether or not it is appreciated or reciprocated? My guess it isn't and that is why she wants to sleep with other man. She wants a man she can't have her way with. BS right? Yep but that's exactly what is happening right now. The beauty for her is she knows if it doesn't work out she has good old fluid topper DRH to fall back on.
How can you change the dynamic of your situation?
Truth darts from LH here. Drh, as a certain bald TV counselor likes to say: how is what you are doing working for you? Doesn't sound like it is. If you ask 100 women what they want in a guy, 90 of them would talk about sweetness, sensitivity, chivlary. Yet if you look at the kinds of guys that the same 100 women go after in a social setting it is the tough, bad guy that has some mystery, and even some danger, surrounding him.
Maybe you aren't tough or a bad guy or even dangerous. But can you be mysterious? "Sorry, I know your car needs maintenance, but you will have to take it to the shop. I am too busy to do that for you..........."
LH is giving you a formula here to help you change your thinking. I do a lot of things for my friends, both male and femal, without any "attraction" involved. If you are happy being her friend, then keep doing what you are doing. But Google "The friend zone" and decide if that is where you want to reside in your soon-to-be ex-wife's life.
Steve, I appreciate your thoughts. Yes, they are truth darts. Am I a tough guy? I don't come across as one. I'm a nice guy but am working on this. I can be mysterious I just need to learn how.
I am not happy being her friend and have told her we cannot be friends - ever. I'm not interested in being in the friend zone and made that very clear to her.
Hey, Doc... Did you move back into the MBR yet?...
Steve, I appreciate your thoughts. Yes, they are truth darts. Am I a tough guy? I don't come across as one. I'm a nice guy but am working on this. I can be mysterious I just need to learn how.
Another important point to all of this, is that it doesn't have to be "fake" or just a persona you "put on". I see comments here and there on these forums about how some of the advice like this looks like "a bunch of beta guys trying to act alpha" or that adopting some of these behaviors is "fake" or "manipulative". I really take issue with those characterizations.
Anyone can change how they behave, and
any behavior can become habitual/ingrained (i.e. "who you are"). What's more, alot of these behaviors, I am convinced, synch up very well with who we are
primally as men. In my case, I was never a hugely outgoing, super-talkative person, or one who was "easy to get to know" or who would banter alot with people I didn't know well, although i wasn't a wallflower, either. (I actually almost always test around 50/50 on introvert/extrovert on those "personality type" tests.) The thing is, I found out that bantering/flirting is
fun... so is being a little mysterious. Quite simply, it's part of being
playful... which every person, not just men...
need. The feedback you get from engaging folks that way is almost universally positive... which makes it even more fun.
Similar dynamic with confidence... it's a self-enforcing feedback loop. It feeds who we really are, who we want to be, and the feedback you get from others, implicit or explicit, validates that and helps it become part of who you are.
Hope this helps.
Steve, I appreciate your thoughts. Yes, they are truth darts. Am I a tough guy? I don't come across as one. I'm a nice guy but am working on this. I can be mysterious I just need to learn how.
Another important point to all of this, is that it doesn't have to be "fake" or just a persona you "put on". I see comments here and there on these forums about how some of the advice like this looks like "a bunch of beta guys trying to act alpha" or that adopting some of these behaviors is "fake" or "manipulative". I really take issue with those characterizations.
Anyone can change how they behave, and
any behavior can become habitual/ingrained (i.e. "who you are"). What's more, alot of these behaviors, I am convinced, synch up very well with who we are
primally as men. In my case, I was never a hugely outgoing, super-talkative person, or one who was "easy to get to know" or who would banter alot with people I didn't know well, although i wasn't a wallflower, either. (I actually almost always test around 50/50 on introvert/extrovert on those "personality type" tests.) The thing is, I found out that bantering/flirting is
fun... so is being a little mysterious. Quite simply, it's part of being
playful... which every person, not just men...
need. The feedback you get from engaging folks that way is almost universally positive... which makes it even more fun.
Similar dynamic with confidence... it's a self-enforcing feedback loop. It feeds who we really are, who we want to be, and the feedback you get from others, implicit or explicit, validates that and helps it become part of who you are.
Hope this helps.
WELL SAID! Just responded in another thread where people were talking about it as if they were actors. Act....until it becomes the new norm. Once you get there then you'll be surprised at how natural it becomes, even if it wasn't at first.
I just read something on another thread about WW being lazy to file for divorce and do all the paperwork. Is this true?
quote:
"Finally, if you do not want divorce, then my suggestion is to not lift a finger to help with the D. WWs are notoriously lazy about ending their M. Likely she won't file, but she will, as you suggest, continue to ask for a D when she interacts with you. Make her do the work. Make her file. Make her do the heavy lifting. In most states, when kids are involved, D is not a simple thing. WWs don't want to deal with it. Her tactic likely will be to continue to do what she is doing hoping you will finally tire of everything and file. Note, I said if you don't want D then don't do anything. If that ever changes, obviously it is well within your rights to file."
My WW doesn't even open her mail if it looks business like. She doesn't pay bills - I do all this. I do all the finances.
I'm not looking to file D just yet - I want to DB and see if I can R. She mentioned it once briefly in a fit of anger.
If she does file first...should I drag it out and play for time and hope to get her to reconsider? Time is money they say. Does the person filing first have an advantage? I'm just considering my options.
D,
Truthfully no. Steve sometimes with good intentions tends to exaggerate in some areas. However there is no advantage to filing first so no worries in that regard.
Since your w is actively dating while married she will most likely wait until she has another man securely in place before she files.
Drh,
If she file, how is dragging it out going to help. I think it will only make matters worst and make you look desperate.
There are times when LBS's are done and they file. Just make sure if you file, you are not doing it to get a reaction out of your WW. You are filing because you no longer want to be married.
If you want to work for recon, then, don't file and DB, become AMOAFWL.
There's no hard set rule, instead there are a bunch of concepts that help you figure out what you want and need to do for your future. DB is a way to save your M, but this forum is here to help you save yourself. This forum helps you regain your logical mindset and sanity to make sound and rational decisions.
If the sound and rational decision become filing than, you can make that decision in a clear minded and loving way.
Joejoe
If she does file first...should I drag it out and play for time and hope to get her to reconsider? Time is money they say. Does the person filing first have an advantage? I'm just considering my options.
I went through and continue the same dilemma. I asked W for time to process what was happening, when I showed I was ready, she is now asking for time.
I met with a L to determine legally why W may not be eager to file. The L did say the longer the wait, the higher the amount of and or duration of alimony is in my state. As far as filing first, the L advised it is easier to file first rather be on the defense. Defending could cost more.
In the end, the pro's are all financial. If the D could be prevent, thats even better financially.
Dragging it out if she does file will cost you more financially. My take...dragging out the D would anger her. Better chance would be to go with the flow, dont resist. It doesnt mean you agree. Also if any terms impact you, by all means battle away.
I just read something on another thread about WW being lazy to file for divorce and do all the paperwork. Is this true?
quote:
"Finally, if you do not want divorce, then my suggestion is to not lift a finger to help with the D. WWs are notoriously lazy about ending their M. Likely she won't file, but she will, as you suggest, continue to ask for a D when she interacts with you. Make her do the work. Make her file. Make her do the heavy lifting. In most states, when kids are involved, D is not a simple thing. WWs don't want to deal with it. Her tactic likely will be to continue to do what she is doing hoping you will finally tire of everything and file. Note, I said if you don't want D then don't do anything. If that ever changes, obviously it is well within your rights to file."
My WW doesn't even open her mail if it looks business like. She doesn't pay bills - I do all this. I do all the finances.
I'm not looking to file D just yet - I want to DB and see if I can R. She mentioned it once briefly in a fit of anger.
If she does file first...should I drag it out and play for time and hope to get her to reconsider? Time is money they say. Does the person filing first have an advantage? I'm just considering my options.
Drh, one of the best things I did in my sitch was to consult with an attorney. Information is power. Most D attorneys do a free consultation. Schedule one and get the information you need on all of this.
As others have said, despite what some attorneys will tell you, there is no advantage to being the one to file. Attorneys will tell you this to get you to pay them. My main point in the quote you quoted was to let you know that most WWs want you to do all the work. Unless you are ready to D I advise not lifting a finger (including filing). Don't drag it out, but don't help it along either.
Example:
WW emails: "I need, X, Y, and Z documents for the divorce."
Drh2001 emails back: "Okay, I understand you need those documents, however I am extremely busy and unable to locate those documents for you. They should be in our files in the home office, feel free to take whatever documents you may need."
Note, you didn't drag anything out. But you didn't lift a finger to find the documents yourself. And the best part? You are making her do all of the work!
If you are looking/hoping to reconcile, Steve85's take is probably the best one. Sandi2 is of a similar opinion-- WW's want the fantasy, they don't want to be bogged down with papers and deadlines and filings, etc. Having to do that kind of stuff themselves is part of the "consequence" of having an affair and wanting to divorce to be with their AP. It may even help them start thinking "Gee, maybe this isn't all sunshine and roses." You have the gift of time (if you are looking to R)... no reason to speed things along. Steve gives an excellent example of not obstructing but not aiding, either (put the onus on her).
OTOH, if your mental well-being is continuing to degrade or you otherwise just don't want anything to do with her ever again, the others are correct-- might as well cooperate/assist fully or file yourself and get it over with.
All comes down to what YOU want.
Hey, Doc... Did you move back into the MBR yet?...
I'm going to ask this again, because it's important. I'm going to assume the answer is no, you haven't. I get the feeling that you're scared to do so. I also get the feeling that you "baby" your W and do everything for her. Neither of these things are attractive characteristics. I hate to be so blunt, but you better get ready for the D. Until you take back the MBR and stop catering to her every need, you're doomed. You have got nothing to lose! Don't look back someday wondering if you would still be married if you would have done these things...
Hey, Doc... Did you move back into the MBR yet?...
I'm going to ask this again, because it's important. I'm going to assume the answer is no, you haven't. I get the feeling that you're scared to do so. I also get the feeling that you "baby" your W and do everything for her. Neither of these things are attractive characteristics. I hate to be so blunt, but you better get ready for the D. Until you take back the MBR and stop catering to her every need, you're doomed. You have got nothing to lose! Don't look back someday wondering if you would still be married if you would have done these things...
I'll answer your question first mtb1981.
It's not as simple as you make it out to be. I felt so uncomfortable after she cheated that I moved to the other bedroom.
I didn't know anything about divorce busting and this forum.
I did research on in-house separation agreements and it was said that both of us should have separate living quarters, buy our own food, wash our own clothes. Well I did the first one but she cooks for the whole family and I do the laundry as I always have done.
I don't baby her anymore believe me. I did use to sometimes. I haven't completely ruled out taking back the MBR but then I would be breaking the agreement.
Obviously if I had found this forum first things would be different.
D,
Truthfully no. Steve sometimes with good intentions tends to exaggerate in some areas. However there is no advantage to filing first so no worries in that regard.
Since your w is actively dating while married she will most likely wait until she has another man securely in place before she files.
It seems the advantages in filing first are mostly if you're physically separated and want child support.
Drh,
If she file, how is dragging it out going to help. I think it will only make matters worst and make you look desperate.
There are times when LBS's are done and they file. Just make sure if you file, you are not doing it to get a reaction out of your WW. You are filing because you no longer want to be married.
If you want to work for recon, then, don't file and DB, become AMOAFWL.
There's no hard set rule, instead there are a bunch of concepts that help you figure out what you want and need to do for your future. DB is a way to save your M, but this forum is here to help you save yourself. This forum helps you regain your logical mindset and sanity to make sound and rational decisions.
If the sound and rational decision become filing than, you can make that decision in a clear minded and loving way.
Joejoe
I can be patient. I know the advoce here is that we're running a marathon not a sprint. I'm in this for the long haul - at least until she files first.
If she does file first...should I drag it out and play for time and hope to get her to reconsider? Time is money they say. Does the person filing first have an advantage? I'm just considering my options.
I went through and continue the same dilemma. I asked W for time to process what was happening, when I showed I was ready, she is now asking for time.
I met with a L to determine legally why W may not be eager to file. The L did say the longer the wait, the higher the amount of and or duration of alimony is in my state. As far as filing first, the L advised it is easier to file first rather be on the defense. Defending could cost more.
In the end, the pro's are all financial. If the D could be prevent, thats even better financially.
Dragging it out if she does file will cost you more financially. My take...dragging out the D would anger her. Better chance would be to go with the flow, dont resist. It doesnt mean you agree. Also if any terms impact you, by all means battle away.
i completely understand you regarding alimony. WW is looking for a better job so this works in my favor as we've been married over 10 years. The differential is less.
I will ponder over your advice.
Hey, Doc... Did you move back into the MBR yet?...
I'm going to ask this again, because it's important. I'm going to assume the answer is no, you haven't. I get the feeling that you're scared to do so. I also get the feeling that you "baby" your W and do everything for her. Neither of these things are attractive characteristics. I hate to be so blunt, but you better get ready for the D. Until you take back the MBR and stop catering to her every need, you're doomed. You have got nothing to lose! Don't look back someday wondering if you would still be married if you would have done these things...
I'll answer your question first mtb1981.
It's not as simple as you make it out to be. I felt so uncomfortable after she cheated that I moved to the other bedroom.
I didn't know anything about divorce busting and this forum.
I did research on in-house separation agreements and it was said that both of us should have separate living quarters, buy our own food, wash our own clothes. Well I did the first one but she cooks for the whole family and I do the laundry as I always have done.
I don't baby her anymore believe me. I did use to sometimes. I haven't completely ruled out taking back the MBR but then I would be breaking the agreement.
This is excuses and a non-answer. Regardless of everything you just said, the right thing to do would be to move back into to MBR and since she is in an active affair, move her OUT of the MBR. If you don't want to or don't have the moxy to do that, regardless of the reasons, then I think we know why this occurred in your marriage. Commanding respect is what a H should do. Once the W has lost respect for her H she is on the path to waywardness. Read sandi's writings here, she explains it in great detail.
Taking back the MBR, because she is the one leaving the marriage, is the right thing. Taking back the MBR also commands her respect.
Drh, one of the best things I did in my sitch was to consult with an attorney. Information is power. Most D attorneys do a free consultation. Schedule one and get the information you need on all of this.
As others have said, despite what some attorneys will tell you, there is no advantage to being the one to file. Attorneys will tell you this to get you to pay them. My main point in the quote you quoted was to let you know that most WWs want you to do all the work. Unless you are ready to D I advise not lifting a finger (including filing). Don't drag it out, but don't help it along either.
Example:
WW emails: "I need, X, Y, and Z documents for the divorce."
Drh2001 emails back: "Okay, I understand you need those documents, however I am extremely busy and unable to locate those documents for you. They should be in our files in the home office, feel free to take whatever documents you may need."
Note, you didn't drag anything out. But you didn't lift a finger to find the documents yourself. And the best part? You are making her do all of the work!
Steve, thanks for this info. A lot to consider. I'm def not ready to file for D but I will get a consult.
If she files I won't be doing the work but I will be doing what you suggested.
Hey, Doc... Did you move back into the MBR yet?...
I'm going to ask this again, because it's important. I'm going to assume the answer is no, you haven't. I get the feeling that you're scared to do so. I also get the feeling that you "baby" your W and do everything for her. Neither of these things are attractive characteristics. I hate to be so blunt, but you better get ready for the D. Until you take back the MBR and stop catering to her every need, you're doomed. You have got nothing to lose! Don't look back someday wondering if you would still be married if you would have done these things...
I'll answer your question first mtb1981.
It's not as simple as you make it out to be. I felt so uncomfortable after she cheated that I moved to the other bedroom.
I didn't know anything about divorce busting and this forum.
I did research on in-house separation agreements and it was said that both of us should have separate living quarters, buy our own food, wash our own clothes. Well I did the first one but she cooks for the whole family and I do the laundry as I always have done.
I don't baby her anymore believe me. I did use to sometimes. I haven't completely ruled out taking back the MBR but then I would be breaking the agreement.
This is excuses and a non-answer. Regardless of everything you just said, the right thing to do would be to move back into to MBR and since she is in an active affair, move her OUT of the MBR. If you don't want to or don't have the moxy to do that, regardless of the reasons, then I think we know why this occurred in your marriage. Commanding respect is what a H should do. Once the W has lost respect for her H she is on the path to waywardness. Read sandi's writings here, she explains it in great detail.
Taking back the MBR, because she is the one leaving the marriage, is the right thing. Taking back the MBR also commands her respect.
A 2*4 to the head and I accept that. The agreement is signed and notarized. In my state there is no legal separation but if I break the agreement I could be causing more trouble for myself.
I'm being as honest as I can be about this. I'm not saying I won't take back the MBR but this is the situation right now. Doesn't mean it won't change.
Steve85 is dead-on, here. So what if you made an "Agreement"? Is this a legally binding contract? Did a lawyer prepare it? C'mon man! You weren't in your right mind and, Oh by the way, you're a different person, now (I hope... or soon to be one). SHE. IS. SHTUPPING. ANOTHER. MAN! In alot of states that is grounds for all sorts of bad things to come her way if she decides to press the issue in divorce court.
If I can backtrack and recover from telling my WW I "freed her from her wedding vows" (ouch, yes... I really did that in the very early post-BD stages), then you can sure as hell backtrack from "agreeing" to move out of the MBR.
She's having an A with another man! How much worse can things get?!?
ARRRRGGGHH!
Steve85 is dead-on, here. So what if you made an "Agreement"? You weren't in your right mind and, Oh by the way, you're a different person, now (I hope... or soon to be one).
If I can backtrack and recover from telling my WW I "freed her from her wedding vows" (ouch, yes... I really did that in the very early post-BD stages), then you can sure as hell backtrack from "agreeing" to move out of the MBR.
She's having an A with another man! How much worse can things get?!?
See my previous reply to Steve. I busted the first affair and she hasn't seen him again. I believe she is seeing someone else but I can't prove it.
Steve,
You are right.
"Commanding respect is what a H should do. Once the W has lost respect for her H she is on the path to waywardness. Read sandi's writings here, she explains it in great detail."
I look back over the last few years and I see the "unique" signs of disrespect that Sandi mentioned. The way she would respond to me if I wanted to ask her something or talk to her. She didn't even make eye contact.
It was something like "I'm reading," "I'm busy", "I'm watching my show" without even looking at me. Very dismissive.
I wanted to add that I really have been trying to follow the advice here on not pursuing or pleading or begging her to change her mind.
I do want to save the marriage.
I limit contact to only necessary emails about the kids and finances. I don't include her in any family activities. I don't stay in the same room as her.
Sometimes she'll make conversation and I'll listen and reply in few words. I've limited my presence around her. I don't sense as much hostility from her as I did during the first few weeks.
I'm also GAL and doing 180s.
It takes a toll on me and I'm tired all the time. I sleep in my car during lunch breaks.
I want to go to the gym and get my energy back.
I need to work on validating and detaching as I haven't really started this yet.
D, you're on page 12 now, time for a new thread. Post a link to the new one as your last post in this one, and post a link to this one in your first post in the new one. It's helpful to provide a brief summary in the first post in the new one as well. Name it something like "WW dropped S bomb- part 2".
Regarding the MBR, like the others I'm a big proponent of never leaving it in the first place. But once you're out it can cause a real poopstorm if you move back in. It may help in planting some seeds of respect, but she's not going to like it and may really hate it. Especially if you have some kind of written agreement in place. The advice we offer here is just that- advice. It's up to you whether to follow it or not. I think some things like GAL and Sandi's rules are absolute musts, but other things you have to consider the negative impact it may have on your sitch.
I need to work on validating and detaching as I haven't really started this yet.
Detachment takes time, it's a byproduct of things like GAL. Validating is something you can start right away and should absolutely work on!
Start a new thread and link this one to it.
Edit - threads are supposed to stop at 100 posts