Hello, I am new to this site and have been reading around for two weeks now. Like most people in this site, I have problems of my own and I figured it's time I get help. So please, hear my story.
I am 28 and W is 30. Recently married. Just as we were about to start our new life together, five days after our wedding, W asked me to let her go and wanted a divorce. It has been about 3 weeks since then.
Let me try to explain everything chronologically starting from the wedding day.
There was nothing wrong with the wedding. It was a joyous day and we both enjoyed it. She cried a bit throughout the wedding but she told me it was because she was feeling overwhelmed with everything that was happening. I believed this is normal.
The first four days after the wedding were blissful. We were both loving and happy with each other. Except for one thing: She cried every morning. According to her at the time, the reason why she cried was because she is not used to being married, the changes scare her and she is not used to leaving her family behind to start a life with me. At the time, I managed to console her.
However, things got worse on the fifth day: the day we left for our honeymoon. She was feeling down the whole day and had no appetite to eat. When we left her house (we were staying with her side of the family), she cried. When we reached the hotel and finally entered our room she instantly broke down and cried. She said she misses her family, she miss being single and she is scared. I spent basically two days of our honeymoon in our hotel room trying to console her.
She eventually managed to figure out why she was feeling depressed. Basically she told me that she missed having the carefree single life and wouldn’t let that go. She was also scared that married life would not make her happy. She was worried that because she won’t be happy, I wouldn’t be happy and that I would be better off with someone else. She told me that she had doubts about the relationship and the wedding early on but didn’t have the courage to bring it up. She just went through with the wedding because she believed in “fate” and had a “if this is what god has decided for me then it will be good for me” kind of mentality. We’re both Muslims and she’s quite religious. She said after the wedding she should be feeling happy and content but she was not and that there must be something wrong. In the end she felt like she is broken and concluded with “I am not ready to be married”. Of course, hearing all this I was devastated and tried to talk her into staying married but she refused to change her decision.
The honeymoon had to be cut short and we had to go back home (we don’t have our own place yet and we’re staying at my in law’s place). I thought she had a form of homesickness and returning home would make her feel better, but it didn’t. Now she’s cold and distant. Everything I did or said seemed to annoy her. She feels stressed and depressed with everything. She’s still set on wanting to not be married.
A few weeks have passed since then, she’s less angry now but still cold and distant towards me. She said she still cares about me and she still looks after me; prepared my food and washed my clothes. When asked if she still loves me, she said she feels nothing towards me. I stopped talking about the relationship / marriage with her because her answer was still the same and talking about it only hurts me more. At the moment, I am just trying to give her space and be patient. Trying to not get angry when she treats me apathetically. Trying GAL. Trying to detach. Hoping she would get around. Time will heal her or something like that. We are seeing a marriage counselor but the counseling seemed to be focused on our individual goals and not necessarily focusing on fixing the marriage which is also making me worried.
So here I am. Seeking advice from this BB on what to do. Everything feels so sudden. I feel lost and confused. I should be starting and readjusting to a new life right now but it feels like all of that is on hold and that I am in a limbo. Is a case like this common? I am considering on separating with W for a few weeks, to give her some space and perhaps with the tension gone she will be able to think things through better. Is this a good idea?
I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome posting. Please read all of the links.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D33,S32
Hi FunBun - sorry for the hard time that you're going through.
How were things before you were married? As your wife is very religious, did you have a short engagement? I ask this delicately - and there's no need to answer if you don't want to - was the sexual relationship something you saved for marriage and do think this might have been a shock to her? Is she able to confide in her sister or mother or an aunt?
I come from a different background to you, and I am no longer a follower of the religion I grew up in, but if your wife had a similar upbringing to me, it is a possibility she was unprepared for a sexual relationship and that this has been - no matter how gentle and considerate you've been - a shock to her.
I would act in loving ways and give her space for the time being. Did you have any pre-marriage counselling and if so, can you ask the person who counselled you if he/she would be willing to see you again?
FunBun, sorry to hear you're going through this during what should be a happy time. I'm newer to the site as well and you are in a good spot to receive some wise advice from veteran DBers.
Sounds smart that you are working on GAL and detaching. I did want to share, when I got married 5 years ago, I went through a brief time where a part of me felt down about the change. I remember leaving the house and crying as if I was mourning my old life. I loved my H and was happy to be married, but a part of me was sad. I researched it at the time and found it to be a common period of transition where a person can go through depression.
My H also started with a period of depression and anxiety which lead to the BD over the summer. I keep reminding myself that my motivation for giving him space and GAL is to give him the chance to see I'm not/our marriage isn't what's causing his depression.
Funbun, a few questions for reference:
1) Is this an arranged marriage?
2) (If too personal, just tell me) Did you both consummate the marriage (IE have sex after the wedding)?
3) Were you two having sex before you were married?
Hello and welcome to the forums! Very sorry to read your story, this is a tough one.
Is a case like this common?
I've been here a long time and the only situation I can think of that was even remotely similar is one where the WAS wanted out after being together a few years and married about 6 months. I've never heard of a sitch where the W wanted out immediately after the wedding, that is very unusual. How long did you date before getting married?
I am considering on separating with W for a few weeks, to give her some space and perhaps with the tension gone she will be able to think things through better. Is this a good idea?
Yes, definitely. It seems pretty clear she doesn't want to be around you right now, so giving her some space would be prudent. Don't call it a "separation", just tell her you are going to give her some space while both of you think things over.
I am 28 and W is 30. Recently married....five days after our wedding, W asked me to let her go and wanted a divorce. It has been about 3 weeks since then.....Is a case like this common?
Not common here.
I had the same questions as AS and Steve.
What ever is going on with W, you can't control. You can just listen and validate her feelings and understand her. Most guys don't get this. Most guys do it wrong. Learn this now. Change the way you "Talk" to her.
You can also control how you interact and behave. Lean about attraction. Learn about seduction. Understand the difference.
This goes against my standard recommendation, but you should CONSIDER speaking with her father for insight. I am not saying do this, but he may have thoughts and wisdom for you.
So a bit of background information. We’ve been together for almost two years now. Our relationship can be described as one sided. Out of the two of us, I am the more romantic person and have no problems expressing my affection. My partner on the other hand can be described as “hot and cold” when it comes to the relationship. Some days she is warm and affectionate but then other days she is cold and distant. Because of this, whenever she is cold, I often bring it up and asked for her to be more affectionate. It often didn’t go well because she’ll get upset and shut herself down. We argued about once a week. However, we always managed to reconcile and reach some sort of compromise. But the same pattern kept happening: she becomes cold, I’d get upset and talk to her about it, then she gets upset, then we reconciled, she becomes warmer for a while and then goes back to her earlier behaviour. Over time I sort of realized that what I was doing was that I was trying to am trying to change her and that is bad and so I tried to accept her as she is. Hoping once we’re married everything will be better (she explained to me that she can only show 100% of her affection once we’re married. I took it as us being muslims and therefore are not allowed to be physically intimate unless married).
To be honest, after the wedding everything was fine. We were both loving and I was content with everything. The first few days were blissful. It baffles me how she broke down and gave up on everything just like that. I too had doubts about the relationship prior to the wedding but I had a strong belief that we can make it work. I do not understand why she couldn’t give the marriage a chance. We have a whole life ahead of us and plenty of time to work things through. I don’t understand why she’d given up and wanted out.
Thank you everyone for your kind response.
As your wife is very religious, did you have a short engagement? Was the sexual relationship something you saved for marriage and do think this might have been a shock to her? Did you have any pre-marriage counselling?
We were engaged for about ten months. As we are both Muslims, we avoided any sort of physical intimacy since the act is considered sinful in our religion. Yes, we had sex after the wedding, it was a bit awkward for both of us (we both understood and expected this) but we were both considerate and loving during the act. I asked her about it and she said she didn't have any problems with the sexual part of our marriage.
I went through a brief time where a part of me felt down about the change. I remember leaving the house and crying as if I was mourning my old life. I loved my H and was happy to be married, but a part of me was sad. I researched it at the time and found it to be a common period of transition where a person can go through depression.
Yes, I did a bit of research on it as well. It might be something called 'Wedding Depression'. I suspect W might be going through something similar, though her's might be a more extreme version of it. How long did it take for you to get out of it? And what helped you go through?
Is this an arranged marriage?
It is not. We were friends for a year. I asked her out. Dated for another year. Then I proposed to her and she said "yes". She was very happy at the prospect at the time. Engaged for 10 months, and then we got married.
This goes against my standard recommendation, but you should CONSIDER speaking with her father for insight. I am not saying do this, but he may have thoughts and wisdom for you.
I discussed the matter with her side of the family. They were quite baffled themselves but thankfully they were quite understanding and supportive. Her parents advised to give it time and not do anything rash. They said she is known to be quite childish and to dislike changes. So maybe I should give her time to let everything settle in for her. Her parents also recommended me to stay with her and not separate, because they fear the separation would make it worse. Her siblings didn't want to take sides and only wished the best and happiness for both of us; whether that means together or otherwise.
Everything feel so unreal and yet this is the reality I live in. W kept reminding me that she wanted out almost everyday and I get the cold treatment every time I talk to her. I do not know how much of this I can take. The only good thing is that her family is treating me well and that is keeping me from breaking down. It's just so hard. How can one be continue to be loving to someone that does not love back.
Do you think the pursuer / distancer dynamic might apply to your relationship? Do you think she found the first few days of your marriage blissful also? If she's a distancer, then a big commitment or a step forward in your physical intimacy might have made her feel trapped, and if so, stepping right right back would be the logical thing to do.
Our relationship can be described as one sided. Out of the two of us, I am the more romantic person and have no problems expressing my affection. My partner on the other hand can be described as “hot and cold” when it comes to the relationship. Some days she is warm and affectionate but then other days she is cold and distant.
This is a lot like my current girlfriend. We've been dating 5 years now and she runs very hot and very cold. Like Alison mentioned, learning about the pursuit/ distance dynamic may help you. I know it has helped me with my GF. It's human nature to pursue when people distance, but that only makes them want more distance so they run away even faster. So then you pursue even harder which just makes it worse. You can only break the cycle by doing the OPPOSITE of what you think you should do. When she distances, then you pull back yourself. The distancer will stop distancing, and with time will start pursuing. So yes, time and space is what you need to give her right now.
Because of this, whenever she is cold, I often bring it up and asked for her to be more affectionate.
This is exactly what I mean, she distances and you pursue. Try doing the opposite. When she distances don't ask her about it, just pull back and leave her alone.
It often didn’t go well because she’ll get upset and shut herself down.
Right, because the more you pursue the more trapped she feels.
Hoping once we’re married everything will be better (she explained to me that she can only show 100% of her affection once we’re married.
A lot of people get married with huge expectations that the other person will change from a troubled boyfriend/girlfriend into the perfect spouse. It NEVER EVER happens. She is who she is and you need to learn to love her just the way she is.
To be honest, after the wedding everything was fine. We were both loving and I was content with everything. The first few days were blissful. It baffles me how she broke down and gave up on everything just like that.
It may be temporary, don't lose hope just yet. Give her time and space and be very patient with her. If she reaches out to you then be there for her, but don't try to force yourself on her (I don't mean in the physical sense, I mean to give her space).
Thank you for the insight AnotherStander. Now that I’ve read the pursuer-distancer dynamic, it does sound a lot like what me and W had prior to the marriage. I will try to back off for a couple of days and see what happens.
I am also thinking of living separately for a few weeks to give her the space she seemed to need. Is this wise? Or is it going to back-fire in some way because she doesn’t seem to want me around and doing this seems like giving her what she wants.
funbun, thanks for the details. That helps. A lot.
You need to just back way off and give her time and space. Let her make her decision. Do not try to reason with her.
Concentrate on yourself, GAL, 180 on any poor behavior on your part (maybe get into IC to explore what that might be), and detach. Detachment is so important because it keeps you from applying pursuit and pressure. Your goal for right now is to stop all pursuit and pressure.
I would wait on separation. Likely you are exploring floating that because you are under the what we call the "illusion of action". You feel you must DO something. Anything. However, what you need to understand that doing nothing IS doing something. Most of the time in DBing, doing nothing is the right approach.
So take some time, think it over. Don't do it out of the feeling you need to do something. There is nothing worse than deciding to suggest this, having her take you up on it, and then regretting the offer.
Deep breaths. You are going through a lot of awful stuff at a time when you should be beaming with happiness and hope for a new life together. It is traumatic, and you need to take the time necessary to process everything and think things through.
Hi FB,
Thanks for clarifying.
How can one be continue to be loving to someone that does not love back?
It is a choice. Love the person. dislike behavior.
I am not familiar with your religion, but the ones that I am familiar with, I have to "read between the lines" to get at the truth. I am sure there are teachings on how to love. You use your discernment on the teachings. Is what I am about to do, going bring us closer together or push us farther apart?
Think before you act. Act when when you are calm. Do nothing (or pull away) when emotional.
I just re-read your first post. Where do you live? Are you in the US or someplace else?
Things that work are completely counter-intuitive.
For example, you work on the marriage by not working on the marriage. This takes all the pressure off.
It is critically important that you do not try to control her. Your natural instinct is to attempt to convince her that she should stay married. This is also pressure. "You are free to do what you want" is the mindset you need.
You both have issues. The only person you can control is yourself. Focus on making positive changes. Change the way you behave, the way you interact. You fix you. She fixes her.
You did a great job at listening to what she said. Validating her EMOTIONAL FEELINGS should be your number one goal when interacting with her. You should be her rock. Let her be as emotional as she needs. She needs to feel safe expressing her emotions to you. You should not let her emotions effect you at all. How you handle her emotion is important. Reflect back to her how she feels with your words. Read the validation thread over and over.
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566
Thanks again everyone. Stopping the pursuit and detachment seems to be the way to go at the moment.
I would wait on separation. Likely you are exploring floating that because you are under the what we call the "illusion of action". You feel you must DO something. Anything. However, what you need to understand that doing nothing IS doing something. Most of the time in DBing, doing nothing is the right approach.
So take some time, think it over. Don't do it out of the feeling you need to do something. There is nothing worse than deciding to suggest this, having her take you up on it, and then regretting the offer.
I haven't thought of it that way. This helps. Thanks Steve.
Where do you live? Are you in the US or someplace else?
I live outside of the US. In a predominately muslim country.
There is another matter.
W birthday is coming up soon (in four days). Usually I would do some sort of grand romantic gesture for her, but in this current situation I am thinking of toning it down a bit. Perhaps a simple "happy birthday" greeting and a small gift. I think ignoring her birthday (detachment) is bad and yet going full on celebrating it in a grand romantic way is also bad. Somewhere in the middle. Thoughts?
Thinking of booking a spa treatment for her. She's feeling depressed so it might help...?
Given that you are still newlyweds, I would still get her something but I agree that you don't want to go overboard as that will feel like pursuit to her. Spa treatment sounds like a great idea!
I agree with the spa treatment. Put a gift card in a "Enjoy your birthday" card. Let her make the appointment. You just cover the cost. Do not give it to her in person. Leave it someplace she will find it.
If I was in your shoes, I would have plans doing something away from her. Give her space on her birthday. You go do something manly.
I agree with the spa treatment. Put a gift card in a "Enjoy your birthday" card. Let her make the appointment. You just cover the cost. Do not give it to her in person. Leave it someplace she will find it.
If I was in your shoes, I would have plans doing something away from her. Give her space on her birthday. You go do something manly.
Thank you for this. I did something like this, W said “thank you” and accepted the gesture. I was expecting her to get annoyed or something but I think she appreciated it but trying not to show it.
I’ve been detaching from W while also be nice to her when we are interacting. I think now there are small signs of improvement, she’s less cold now. At the moment, when she talks with me her tone is softer, but still distant. We don’t talk at all, no small talk, only when necessary. I tried to strike up a casual conversation, but she always gives one word replies and I ended up giving up with conversing with her and just shut my mouth. I figured shouldn’t try to start a convo because it might look like I am pursuing I guess. So when we’re together in the same room, it’s mostly quiet.
Had R talk with her yesterday. Her stance is still the same. She still feels nothing towards me. She feels miserable. She mentioned about how she doesn’t want kids but unsure why. She talked about what life would be like if she is divorced: would she marry another man, would she want to have kids with another man. She is unsure of the cause of a lot of the things she is feeling actually. I guess that is a good thing..?
I am not surprised that her stance is the same. She's not ready to listen to relationship talks. Do what works for you, i.e., detaching. Allow her to come to you and no more relationship talks.
Just be yourself and try to enjoy the holiday. If you invite her to attend something, do it w/o expectations. If she says no, so be it...but you go ahead and do what you have planned. When she sees that you are moving forward, then and only then, will she become curious about you, what you are doing and who may be along for the adventure.
Leave her be...allow her to come to you.
Try to enjoy the holiday as much as you can. A new year is around the corner and that means new adventures will unfold for you.
funbun,
Really sorry you are here. It sounds like you are far ahead of me in my sitch with the DB principles.
AS mentioned a similar situation regarding a WAS leaving around 6 months after the marriage, and I seem to think it’s probably my sitch, though she left 11 months in.
I tried linking my story, but I’m having trouble finding it. Job, can you help?
I am spending time with family but have been occasionally checking the forums throughout the day, as my heart breaks for the LBS that has to deal with these things on Christmas.
I plan on checking back in tomorrow to give my perspective as well as an update on my sitch.
Best,
FF
FFHubby,
Is this the thread you wanted linked here?
Rising from the Ashes
job,
Thank you for your response and happy new year to you.
I went through with your advice with trying to enjoy the holidays. I decided to go stay at my parents' place for three days without W. I figured I've been going through this for a month now and needed rest and time away from W. This meant that I needed to tell my side of the family about my sitch. Before this I held off telling them because I didn't want too many people to be involved in what already is a delicate situation. However, I changed my mind and decided to tell them as I needed the support from my family for my own mental well-being.
W wanted to go see my parents together and explain everything to them together. However, I refused and insisted that I go see them on my own. She was not happy about it, angry in fact. My reason was that I needed to see my parents on my own so that I can just let it all out (my sadness, frustration, etc) to them. I've been holding it all in for about a month and needed someone to release it to. I figured, I've been at her side for a month and have been nice to her, being a bit selfish in this case is fair.
So I went and talked to my family. They were thankfully understanding. I had my three days of rest and to contemplate on my sitch.
I am back now under the same roof with my wife. She's still p!ssed at me. Irritated. Cold treatment. The usual. She still wants to talk to my parents. I agreed to let her talk to them next week.
My three days of rest has got me thinking about why W wanted D. Maybe because she has an avoidant attachment style and has a fear of commitment (I am not a therapist but the signs seem to point at this being the case). Got me thinking about our pursuer-distancer dynamic; the number of times she has rejected me one way or another even when we were together before M. But I kept on chasing her and wanted to fix things. And now, she is rejecting me again.
I figured, enough is enough. No more chasing. I feel a lot more detached now. I'm still polite to her but rather in a apathetic kind of way. Before I tried to be helpful around the house, now I don't offer help unless she asks me to.
The question: is this the right mentality when you are detaching? I've been told to be her "friend" right now, but I find it hard to bring myself to treat her in a warm and friendly manner when I feel sad and hurt inside. Right now, the best I can do is be polite, calm, and not get angry.
Another question, did I make the right move by going to my parents on my own? It frustrated W, and seemed to make her colder towards me again.
Hi FunBun
I think you don't need her permission to talk to your parents about whatever you like, and if you needed that space and time, well, you needed it. Most people would in your situation. If you are hoping for R I think that getting your parents 'on side' and sharing with them in a way that means they dislike or judge her is going to make that more difficult. There might be better people you can confide in. Here, for a start - but also perhaps a male friend, or a therapist?
You also don't have any control over whether she speaks to your parents or not. It isn't a case of 'letting' her do anything. She's free to do as she likes. Is she actually asking your permission? If so, I'd say 'you must do as you think is best' and then leave her to it - and don't ask her or your parents about their conversation. If she isn't asking your permission, I'd mind your own business.
As for helping around the house. The word 'helping' is a little odd. You live there. You eat meals and make laundry and dirty the floors just as anyone else does. Doing a fair share in the house - not as a way of nicing her back to you, or getting her to be impressed with you - but just because you are an adult and you live there - is a no-brainer. You looking after your share of domestic work doesn't need to have anything to do with your marriage. You're not doing her a favour, you're not sulking and refusing to do domestic work to punish her. You're just acting like all attractive, appealing men do - (right?) - independently doing your share of the house hold tasks.
What other steps do you have in place for your mental well being? What are your GAL plans? Do you have a male friend outside of the situation - not a friend of hers, not a member of your family or hers - that you can confide in?
FFHubby,
Thank you. I got to read your thread a bit. I'm sorry about your D. All is better for you now I hope.
It brings me comfort to know someone has gone through a similar situation (being newlywed then suddenly BD). Although, you had a lot more things going on in your sitch (the distance, your injury, depression, and in-laws). It made me realized that it could be worse for me and that I am perhaps in a better position to turn this around. I should be thankful with what I have I guess. It does give me a bit of hope.
Some of your description of your ex sounds similar to my W. About her being more conflict avoidant, about her not putting you as first priority. Just want to know what did you learn and how did you deal with a person like that?
Hello Alison,
As for helping around the house. The word 'helping' is a little odd. You live there. You eat meals and make laundry and dirty the floors just as anyone else does. Doing a fair share in the house - not as a way of nicing her back to you, or getting her to be impressed with you - but just because you are an adult and you live there - is a no-brainer. You looking after your share of domestic work doesn't need to have anything to do with your marriage. You're not doing her a favour, you're not sulking and refusing to do domestic work to punish her. You're just acting like all attractive, appealing men do - (right?) - independently doing your share of the house hold tasks.
Thank you for this perspective. You are right. I should do my own fair share of the housework. I think being sad and hurt tend to make people resentful and 'rebel' as to make things harder for other people. I don't think that is right. I should pull my own weight but not do anything extra or try to hard..?
What other steps do you have in place for your mental well being? What are your GAL plans? Do you have a male friend outside of the situation - not a friend of hers, not a member of your family or hers - that you can confide in?
I go to the gym two times a week and try to build a support system around me. At the moment, I have a male close friend that I confide in. My family is also available. I bought a Nintendo Switch recently and playing games helped a lot in taking my mind of things lol.
Sorry I am now just responding, FB.
The holidays are always busy, and I found out my ex wife got engaged on Christmas to someone she has dated for about 8 months. Spiraled for a bit but found my bearing again after a day or two of grieving. Obviously I am not completely detached, but I am giving myself a break. I am not perfect.
When the vets here tell you to GAL, you really need to do it. I have reverted back to some bad old behaviors such as playing the victim. I did just have another major neck surgery 3 months ago, and it gave me the relief I have been searching for over the last 10 years, at least physcially. I was hoping the surgery would solve my problems, but I find myself falling into the same negative behaviors. I am in the process of finding a good counselor, and I might have to drive an hour to find one as the town I live in doesn't have quality therapists. Bottom line is I was lying to myself by thinking the changes I was making were for myself and not my Ex. DO NOT make the same mistake as me. I am committed to not dating until my ex is married. Part of that is because I am still in love with her and am a man of faith in Jesus, but the other part is the fact that I know I am no where close to being the best version of myself, and I refuse to bring a woman into my life until I find myself again.
Regarding what I have learned from dealing with my ex and her conflict avoidance.... I don't have a lot of advice for you, unfortunately. Some people are just not good people. The more I tried to figure out how she could make the decisions she did, the crazier I felt. When I do eventually find another partner, I at least have a list of what is acceptable and what is not. I ignored a lot of red flags that I didn't know were there until after she left.
I think the best thing you can do at this point is focus on what you can control. Focus on being the best version of yourself, realize you don't need to be with a woman to give you value. Validate, validate, validate. I sucked at this, but it is SO important.
When I was the happiest after my separation, I was surrounded by good male friends almost every single day. That has been lacking due to the holidays, and I have struggled. But I have the next month planned out to hang with guys that I love, and that love me.
Really feeling for you FB. Follow the advice of the vets here. I am invested in your sitch, and will post as often as I can.
Happy New Year!
Bottom line is I was lying to myself by thinking the changes I was making were for myself and not my Ex. DO NOT make the same mistake as me.
Some people are just not good people. The more I tried to figure out how she could make the decisions she did, the crazier I felt. When I do eventually find another partner, I at least have a list of what is acceptable and what is not. I ignored a lot of red flags that I didn't know were there until after she left.
I think the best thing you can do at this point is focus on what you can control. Focus on being the best version of yourself, realize you don't need to be with a woman to give you value. Validate, validate, validate. I sucked at this, but it is SO important.
Thank you for the advice FF. These ones in particular struck a chord with me. I hope the new year is going well for you so far.
Update
Several things have happened, we are living separately for the time being.
What has lead to that?
Well we were staying at my parent's house over the weekend. On friday, W expressed that she was feeling sad. I didn't know what to reply to that without going into R talk and making it worse, so I just said "okay" and didn't pursue it further. It was the best that I could do.
At the house we both kept to ourselves. I was detaching as normal. She was feeling down and awkward in the house because my family knew about our situation and she was too afraid to talk to them about it. Basically, she was still frustrated with the fact that I told my family on my own without her and now she feels awkward to talk to them. We basically ended up talking about it and then that let to R talk. She mentioned that she doesn't love me, doesn't want to continue to be married to me, doesn't want my kids. I was triggered and went with the "what your doing is sinful" argument (bad mistake on my part). We argued for a while and at the end she asked to be sent home. Her parents came by and picked her up to stay with them.
So currently, I am staying at my parents' and she is staying with hers. I do not know for how long. After that argument, I needed time to heal and contemplate.
Thinking back, I got the feeling that she was feeling down and awkward around the house and dropped hints that she wanted me to be more accommodating. At the time I was oblivious to this of course. I was too preoccupied with detaching and giving her space. It doesn't make sense to me. After everything hurtful she that she said to me, how does she expect me to still be nice to her?
Dear Comrades, I need advice.
As you all know, I am DB-ing (detaching and GAL) and in a sense stalling for time in the hopes that W will come to her senses and return.
However, it is difficult when W asked "So what now? When are you going to let me go?". She has asked that repeatedly, and every time my answer would be "I cannot say, I am still thinking and I am waiting for an answer/sign" (stalling).
I get the sense that she is getting increasingly frustrated and impatient. She wants this to be over with.
What's the best thing I should say when she asks the same question again? Should I continue to stall? Should I validate?
To be completely honest, I think she might have been talked into getting married. Maybe by her family or friends, but something or someone convinced her that getting married would make her happy. I've seen girls who were in love with the idea of being in love. They get emotionally caught up the wedding plans, showers, etc. I've known some who nearly had a nervous breakdown from the all the emotional pressure and trying to please everyone.
I actually know two cases in real life, where the groom woke up the day after the wedding to discover he was married to a stranger. The bride, in both cases, were the complete opposite from who they pretended before the wedding. It was very, very strange, and nobody ever knew what came over these girls. Within a couple of weeks, they had filed for divorce.
This is just my opinion, but since you have no children and she continues to tell you she wants to be single again, I would suggest you move on. This is not a common case. It is not normal. She does not love you, and her own parents said she was selfish or childish. Doing more housework will not cause her to feel sexually attracted or fall in love with you. Life is too short to try to make someone love you that told your four days after the wedding she wanted to be single again.
Ouch. That was rather hard for me to read Sandi. However, maybe you are right. I’ll contemplate on it further.
Recently, her family advised me to be patient and try to do things to gently win her back. They suggested texting her from time to time, initiating conversation. Basically, since I am the “sane” one and also since I am a man, I should be the one apologizing first and try to gently win her back. “Women like to be charmed and treated like a princess” they said.
Sounds like persuading and chasing to me, which to my understanding is something I shouldn’t do when detaching..? Or should I try it and see what happens?
Fun, if you want to see her sprint the other direction... Go ahead and try.
People think wooing is how you win someone back. And that's because that's how you win someone to begin with. Problem is that you and your W have a lot of history together. So what you would do when getting to know her to win her won't work.
DBing is counterintuitive..... But that's where the magic is. No one expects you to back off and give her time and space. Including her! When you do she'll wonder why you aren't behaving as expected. And I can tell you from experience because that's what worked with my W. She was as far gone as a WAS ever was. But after 2 days of doing what she expected (begging, pleading, reasoning, pursuing) I remembered DBi ng, backed way off, and that made her wonder what was going on.
So if you're going to try something, double down on DBing. Back way off, give her time and space. GAL like a madman. Continue to 180 and improve yourself. And work on detachment.
Recently, her family advised me to be patient and try to do things to gently win her back. They suggested texting her from time to time, initiating conversation. Basically, since I am the “sane” one and also since I am a man, I should be the one apologizing first and try to gently win her back. “Women like to be charmed and treated like a princess” they said.
Sounds like persuading and chasing to me, which to my understanding is something I shouldn’t do when detaching..? Or should I try it and see what happens?
I think this is terrible advice. If she's been talked into marrying you, or fell in love with the idea of marriage, then she's not an emotionally mature adult woman. If she's described by her own parents as childish and selfish, then she has probably got way, in part, because they've treated her like a little princess instead of expecting her to take responsibility for her own decisions and the consequences of them, as is appropriate for adults. The fact you're both staying with your parents instead of having your own places, or arranging your own alternative living spaces if it is needed is another sign emotional immaturity is involved.
The mature, adult and respectful thing to do is to respect what she says - she doesn't want to be married. You don't need to 'let her go' - she's gone. What she does here on out, including seeking a divorce - is down to her and within her power. You get on with GAL, working on yourself and your own maturity, and you leave her be. A mature man doesn't find a pouting woman who needs to be cajoled into a relationship remotely attractive.
Thank you Steve and Alison. My thoughts exactly: detachment is still the way to go and chasing after her is a bad idea.
A question,
I noticed W took off her wedding ring and has never worn it ever since the BD. I still wear mine occasionally, should I keep it on? Or does it send the wrong signal to W? W does notice I am still wearing it. Wondering what’s the general consensus here on keeping the ring on when DB-ing.
I always kept my ring on. H took his off sometimes and put it on at other times: I think it depended on his mood. I tried not to look, to check, to let it affect me but it was hard. I doubt, in our case, my wearing my ring or not would have made any difference to how he felt or acted, but I'd decided I wanted to act as if I was married in terms of my relationships and boundaries with other men so long as I was legally married, and my ring reminded me of that. It mattered to me. I think you should go with your own values in this area.
Also - a question. When she asks 'when are you going to let me go?' what is it you thinks she means? Does she want you to arrange a divorce for her and take care of all the financial stuff? In which case, I would let her handle all that herself given she wants it, but don't do anything to sabotage her or stand in her way. If she means 'give me space' or 'stop acting like we're a couple' then I think you have to respect that, 100%, from today.
Thank you Steve and Alison. My thoughts exactly: detachment is still the way to go and chasing after her is a bad idea.
A question,
I noticed W took off her wedding ring and has never worn it ever since the BD. I still wear mine occasionally, should I keep it on? Or does it send the wrong signal to W? W does notice I am still wearing it. Wondering what’s the general consensus here on keeping the ring on when DB-ing.
I believe that as long as you are married, you wear your ring. Regardless of what the WAS does. I have lots of reasons for this, and will be glad to share them if you are interested.
Note, not everyone here agrees. So there is no consensus on this. For me it boils down to personal integrity. And you should never give up your personal integrity just because she has.
Also - a question. When she asks 'when are you going to let me go?' what is it you thinks she means? Does she want you to arrange a divorce for her and take care of all the financial stuff? In which case, I would let her handle all that herself given she wants it, but don't do anything to sabotage her or stand in her way. If she means 'give me space' or 'stop acting like we're a couple' then I think you have to respect that, 100%, from today.
The divorce process is different here in my country. It follows the Islamic ruling where the husband holds a lot of say in terms of breaking of the marriage. Basically, wives cannot request for a divorce unless they have a valid reason (husband is abusive/not fulfilling his obligations, etc). However, there is a rule where wives can ask for a divorce by paying some sort of compensation to the husband (typically they have to return back the dowry).
When W asks "when are you going to let me go?" basically she wants me to give my permission for a divorce to the court.
I love my wife dearly and I hate to see her be miserable in this marriage. However, I still believe in saving this marriage and hence I am not willing to give the permission for a divorce... but when the time comes.. I will let her go.
We are living separately right now so she has all the space she needs. We haven't been contacting with each other. I am just waiting I guess.
I believe that as long as you are married, you wear your ring. Regardless of what the WAS does. I have lots of reasons for this, and will be glad to share them if you are interested.
Thank you Steve, if you can share the reasons that would be great.
Hi DB Forum, I feel like writing my thoughts down
Not much to update; I am still living separately from my W. Didn't contact her at all. Trying to GAL. Trying to give her space and time to calm down and think things through. Maybe I'll give her a week or two, then I'll contact her and ask how she is doing.
One thing that I haven't mentioned here is that W and I work at the same place. Even though we are living separately, we often cross paths when at work. When we do, we often avoid eye contact or give a weak smile when we pass by each other. I hate this. I hate that it has come to this, the fact that my wife is like a stranger to me.
I have also come to realize how difficult it is to detach for real. My mood and mentality frequently shifts in and out between "I want my wife back badly" and "it's okay, I can let go". One moment I am p!ssed at my W and then the next moment I feel empathetic to what W is going through. I do GAL, but I can't help but think about W and my sitch. I just hope that eventually I will get over it.
At work, I have to pretend everything is okay. Especially in front of W. Trying not to show her that I am actually feeling down inside. I think she is doing the same thing too; pretending to be happy around people when I am there. It's hard.
[
The divorce process is different here in my country. It follows the Islamic ruling where the husband holds a lot of say in terms of breaking of the marriage. Basically, wives cannot request for a divorce unless they have a valid reason (husband is abusive/not fulfilling his obligations, etc). However, there is a rule where wives can ask for a divorce by paying some sort of compensation to the husband (typically they have to return back the dowry).
When W asks "when are you going to let me go?" basically she wants me to give my permission for a divorce to the court.
I love my wife dearly and I hate to see her be miserable in this marriage. However, I still believe in saving this marriage and hence I am not willing to give the permission for a divorce... but when the time comes.. I will let her go.
Thanks for answering my question, Funbun. I guess the culture and expectations are so different between my situation and yours that my suggestions might not be useful to you. But I would consider granting someone their freedom an act of love. You can give permission, and she can do what she wants with that - right? It doesn't automatically mean you are divorced, it just means if she wants to seek one, you are not standing in her way? I hate to quote a cliche, but the phrase 'if you love something, set it free,' kind of makes sense here, doesn't it?
Personally, I don't believe there can be any true connection or intimacy without equality. That doesn't mean both partners in a marriage need to bring the same talents or skills or financial contributions: everyone is different and contributes differently. But if a law traps one partner in a marriage against their will, is that even truly a marriage? Saving your marriage probably doesn't mean trapping her in it until she sees sense, or feels the way you want her to feel, right?
What if you grant her the permission she wants, and let her do with that freedom whatever she wishes? If she returns, or delays a legal divorce, at least you know she's acting as an adult according to her preferences. What do you mean 'when the time comes' - do you mean 'when I decide the time is right?' - what about your wife and her decisions? Her judgement of the right time? Does that matter?
(of course you could easily argue she knew what the laws and customs around marriage were in your area before she got into it - she'd bound by an institution she entered into freely. There's some merit in that argument. But where does it get you? You're no more married, no more connected, no more enjoying the type of relationship you want and hope for.)
You also talk about going N/C for a couple of weeks then checking in with her. That's not N/C and it isn't space. Or at least, it is giving space and time on your own timetable and not hers. It isn't letting her come to you. It is going to take much much longer than a couple of weeks for feelings to settle, for the fog to clear, for the best way forward to become obvious. I've been there myself and I know how long two weeks can feel when you are suffering and not getting what you want. But checking in in the way you're planning to is pursuit and pressure and is likely to backfire. And I do think each of us deserves someone who wants to be with us - not someone who is forced by the law or cajoled or guilted or persuaded by us into being with us.
Maybe I'll give her a week or two, then I'll contact her and ask how she is doing.
I strongly suggest against this. Let her come to you.
One thing that I haven't mentioned here is that W and I work at the same place.
It should have been the first thing you mentioned.
At work, I have to pretend everything is okay. Especially in front of W. Trying not to show her that I am actually feeling down inside.
This is what you need to always do.
The number one thing that women are attracted to is a confident man. Always project confidence.
Read this post:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846984Chase after success. Do not chase a woman. She is not the prize, you are. She is not a possession. Shine though all of this.
Thank you Alison and Ready2Change for the response,
I can understand how the laws of my country favour the H and I sincerely do not wish to impose on W's rights and freedom. Ever since the separation, she has stopped asking the question "when will you let me go?" and all talk of R and D has stopped as well. So everything is kind of in a limbo right now. She has plenty of space at the moment and I have mine. I will try my best to not pursue and work on myself.
Also, when I said "when the time comes", it meant two things, either
(1) I couldn't bear it anymore and decided to end it myself (hopefully not)
or (2) for when she asks for D again
Like I said, she has not asked for D for a while and the next time she does then I'll have to be firm and allow it. However, I'll ask her to sort out the D papers on her own and will neither help nor obstruct (like what some of you have suggested). At the end I'll just sign the papers and give my "consent".
Side note: it feels rather surreal for me to be thinking and talking about D. Heck, my whole sitch sounds surreal to me. Especially given that I am 28 years old. I am probably the youngest member here. lol. So like, I would be 28 AND also a divorcee..? Can't help but think I should be happily married right now but nope, god has a different plan I guess. Not trying to sound like a defeatist, just thinking about how unexpected and surreal things are right now. This is what I have to deal with. Gotta be strong.
Thank you Alison and Ready2Change for the response,
I can understand how the laws of my country favour the H and I sincerely do not wish to impose on W's rights and freedom. Ever since the separation, she has stopped asking the question "when will you let me go?" and all talk of R and D has stopped as well. So everything is kind of in a limbo right now. She has plenty of space at the moment and I have mine. I will try my best to not pursue and work on myself.
Also, when I said "when the time comes", it meant two things, either
(1) I couldn't bear it anymore and decided to end it myself (hopefully not)
or (2) for when she asks for D again
Like I said, she has not asked for D for a while and the next time she does then I'll have to be firm and allow it. However, I'll ask her to sort out the D papers on her own and will neither help nor obstruct (like what some of you have suggested). At the end I'll just sign the papers and give my "consent".
Side note: it feels rather surreal for me to be thinking and talking about D. Heck, my whole sitch sounds surreal to me. Especially given that I am 28 years old. I am probably the youngest member here. lol. So like, I would be 28 AND also a divorcee..? Can't help but think I should be happily married right now but nope, god has a different plan I guess. Not trying to sound like a defeatist, just thinking about how unexpected and surreal things are right now. This is what I have to deal with. Gotta be strong.
Wait, #2 is just words. Why would that be "when the time comes" for anything?
Her: "I want a D, I already told you this."
You: "Yes, I understand that you feel that D is what you want." (Or some other validating statement.)
WWs/WAWs will continue to say this throughout the sitch. My W repeated dozens of times during our sitch. Maybe 100s. ACTIONS are what matter. LBSs get so hung up on the words of the WS/WAS, it is like putting meaning into the words of a crazy person.
2 should read: When she takes action to D me. Who cares what she says? This reminds me of a quote from the Bible:
James 2:15,16
[15] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[16] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Words are meaningless and empty without action to backe them up.
Also, there are a lot of 28 year-olds going through this or something similar, and divorced. Just very few of them have the wisdom to seek this forum and works of MWD out to help them.
...Especially given that I am 28 years old...
Would you rather go though this now, or 10 years from now with several kids? Count your blessings. I was married at 29...three kids, 12 years later W tells me she is unhappy bla bla bla. She drug all 4 of us through the ugly mud of divorce. It is now 10 years post divorce. Best worst thing to happen to me.
There are so many layers to this. Ultimately it comes down to your personal growth. You have to really question everything you believe. During this period, study like a madman. Learn as much as you can. Make any changes you believe are important. This is about fixing yourself. We all have so many issues. Your W is a mirror reflecting issues back to you. Everyone else you interact with is as well.
Your #1 priority with your wife right now is to listen and validate her FEELINGS(Angry,sad,happy,scared, etc). Your #2 priority is to practice this skill with everyone you interact with. You make the conversation 100% about them. Do not share your story.
Listen/Validate repeat.
When you are not interacting with others, focus on tasks that are directly related to you goals. You goals should be things under your control. Not things like "saving the marriage" but rather, "Validate my W's feelings" or paint the living room, or wash the car, or learn some new work skills, or plant a garden, or make 5 people laugh today.
I miss her terribly today. My mind wonders what if all of this is some sort of curse. In order to break the curse, I need to make the right move. An act of reconnection to jump start her feelings again. Or am I going crazy.
At least right now she is no longer feeling angry with me and at work we said “hi” to each other. Maybe I should ask her out for dinner. Is that a good idea. Will a simple question of asking her out with little expectations of her saying yes be bad? Will it push her away?
I miss her terribly and I want her back. Are these strong feelings a good sign to take action or are they just misleading. Detaching is hard. Today is not a good day.
Sorry you are having a bad day. If I was in your shoes, I would not ask her out. You want her to pursue you. That is your goal.
This is what MAY jump start her attraction for you again:
1) Missing you
2) Fear of loosing you
3) Seeing positive changes in your behavior
Focus on being attractive to all woman. Confidence and Commanding Respect. Understand how to be seductive. Keep focused on your personal growth.
In order to break the curse, I need to make the right move. An act of reconnection to jump start her feelings again. Or am I going crazy.
You're not going to bust some move and make her see the light.
Show her how strong you are and how you can survive this. Maybe she'll change her mind, maybe not.
I'd bet a lot of money that if you try this "act of reconnection" that she puts you down hard.
She's told you she wants to be single, can you listen to her?
Apologies, I had a bit of a relapse and needed to refocus. Sometimes the ‘withdrawal syndrome’ come knocking and it’s difficult to fight it. I find it especially difficult at night before sleep. Any tips on this?
I’ve regain a bit of my composure for the time being. Thanks R2C and ovrrnbw.
Hi DB Forum,
W’s uncle will have a birthday dinner tonight with W’s side of the family. He is a nice man. He’s knows of my sitch and he’s inviting me over later. I said I will come. I notified W of this so that she won’t be caught by surprise by my sudden appearance there.
I plan to be cordial with W later, but also will try to minimize our interactions. I can tell I am still not fully detach and still harbour some resentment. I do not want that resentment to manifests itself in my behaviour towards W. No interaction is better than bad interaction right?
Any other advice about code of conduct around W? or maybe a few words of wisdom to set my mind in the right frame (i.e. minimizing sadness and resentment)?
Hi DB Forum,
W’s uncle will have a birthday dinner tonight with W’s side of the family. He is a nice man. He’s knows of my sitch and he’s inviting me over later. I said I will come. I notified W of this so that she won’t be caught by surprise by my sudden appearance there.
I plan to be cordial with W later, but also will try to minimize our interactions. I can tell I am still not fully detach and still harbour some resentment. I do not want that resentment to manifests itself in my behaviour towards W. No interaction is better than bad interaction right?
Any other advice about code of conduct around W? or maybe a few words of wisdom to set my mind in the right frame (i.e. minimizing sadness and resentment)?
I see a lot of rationalization for accepting this "nice man's" invitation. My guess is that your intentions here are not all pure. This is her family. And if you want to minimize interaction then I would suggest calling her uncle and saying: "Happy birthday! Unfortunatly, I cannot make it tonight. I have plans, but wanted to let you know I appreciate you and the invitation."
I would suggest calling her uncle and saying: "Happy birthday! Unfortunately, I cannot make it tonight. I have plans, but wanted to let you know I appreciate you and the invitation."
^^^^This is how to DB^^^^
It's "her" family. Don't go. Uncle is good dude but let her have her family time.
I agree with all the others...
I appreciate everyone's advice here in this forum, but I decided to go to the dinner...
Because of several things (1) The uncle was nice enough to invite me over even though he doesn't have to, it didn't feel appropriate to turn him down (2) Despite the sitch, we're married, W family is now my family too, there is a part of me that misses them and want to spend time with them (3) I didn't want W to see me as a man that rejects family time, I didn't want her to add that to the list of things that is 'wrong' with me.
Frankly, I'm glad I came. I had a nice time overall with W's family. They were warm towards me and were sympathetic to my sitch. They hoped that W and I would R again (of course, they didn't say that in front of W though, she would be angry if she knew). I was feeling down the whole week. Knowing there are people on her side that is supporting me gives me hope.
W didn't seemed to mind I was there. She understood that despite our sitch, we would still have to be present during family gatherings. Earlier during the separation she mentioned that she would still want to see my parents and she'd allow me to see her parents. We both do not want to jeopardize the relationships we have built with family members.
That evening I managed to keep my distance from W. Didn't interact with her other than "Hello" when I arrived and "I am going now" when I left. I reminded myself that I was only there to spend time with the Uncle and her family, not for her sake.
MIL also invited me to several other family gatherings next month: W's niece birthday, W's cousin wedding. I said I will try to come but no promises. I have a social obligation to attend these events but I know proper DB-ing means I shouldn't.
I want to DB properly, but I do not want to strain family relations, is there a balance to this? Or is this a mistake?
It is a mistake. This was pressure and pursuit, whether you want to face that or not. If her family wants your guys to R, then trust me, she knows and feels that, and you being there further exacerbated that. You keep talking about "not wanting to strain family relations" and wanting to keep a connection with her family.
When you get D'd (and these kinds of decisions, no matter how you justify them will get you there faster) will mean you have NO connection and relation to these people. Trust me on that. Blood is thicker than water. They will not invite you to things once her decision to D becomes final. You marry a person's family, but you also D from their family.
DBing isn't a balance. It is a set of principles. GAL. 180s. Detachment. You certainly failed on GAL and detachment with this decision to attend a family get-together for HER family. GAL would have been that you were too busy to attend HER family's get-together. And it showed that you are still attached to her and her family.
My guess is she was not pleased with your attendance......no matter WHAT she said during your sitch.
It is pressure, it builds on your W.
You want her family to make her do this, or do you want her to choose this?
If you had another woman giving you unwanted attention and you asked he not to, but she kept pursuing you, how would you feel? What of she kept showing up at events you were attending?
Don't be that way with your W. It is unattractive. Respect what she has asked you.
It is a mistake. This was pressure and pursuit, whether you want to face that or not. If her family wants your guys to R, then trust me, she knows and feels that, and you being there further exacerbated that. You keep talking about "not wanting to strain family relations" and wanting to keep a connection with her family.
When you get D'd (and these kinds of decisions, no matter how you justify them will get you there faster) will mean you have NO connection and relation to these people. Trust me on that. Blood is thicker than water. They will not invite you to things once her decision to D becomes final. You marry a person's family, but you also D from their family.
DBing isn't a balance. It is a set of principles. GAL. 180s. Detachment. You certainly failed on GAL and detachment with this decision to attend a family get-together for HER family. GAL would have been that you were too busy to attend HER family's get-together. And it showed that you are still attached to her and her family.
My guess is she was not pleased with your attendance......no matter WHAT she said during your sitch.
^^^Agree 100% with all of this.^^^ This was a big setback in your DB'ing. Now pick yourself up, learn from it and keep moving forward. Her family is her family, not yours. No matter how close you think you are to them and how wrong you think her actions are, they will "side" with her, guaranteed.
I see a lot of rationalization for accepting this "nice man's" invitation. My guess is that your intentions here are not all pure. This is her family. And if you want to minimize interaction then I would suggest calling her uncle and saying: "Happy birthday! Unfortunatly, I cannot make it tonight. I have plans, but wanted to let you know I appreciate you and the invitation."
I don't often quote myself, but I called out your rationalizations. You then went and then came back with even more rationalizations. You can't really DB halfway. Many have tried, and the D rate is around 99% for those that have.
I agree with the others. Here is an example from my sitch:
My W moved out Feb/2019. A lot was going on as her dad had weeks to live. I was there to lend support however I could, which she did appreciate, but at the same time as the weeks/months went on it was clear that her side of the family was very much in support of me and wasn't sure what was going on with her. She started to soften up a bit around October and then in November during a chat she mentioned that her relationship with her brother was strained because she felt him and everyone else was taking my side (not understanding her) and she felt extra pressure which was "not helping" our situation. Her brother and I became close during my FIL's last few months as I was there to help out however I could (and I wouldn't change that) and my MIL and I became closer too. It's all added pressure on her to do the "right thing" and it doesn't help in any way.
This past Christmas, even though we were on better terms, I opted not to attend her Christmas dinner at her mom's and I can tell that this had an effect on her. But it didn't feel appropriate if we weren't together.
It's easy to rationalize as Steve said...but your better off doing your own thing both for your sanity and mental health as well as so she can see what life without you is like.
Thank you everyone.
I thought I had a good understanding of DB, but apparently I still have more to learn.
I agree with the others. Here is an example from my sitch:
My W moved out Feb/2019. A lot was going on as her dad had weeks to live. I was there to lend support however I could, which she did appreciate, but at the same time as the weeks/months went on it was clear that her side of the family was very much in support of me and wasn't sure what was going on with her. She started to soften up a bit around October and then in November during a chat she mentioned that her relationship with her brother was strained because she felt him and everyone else was taking my side (not understanding her) and she felt extra pressure which was "not helping" our situation. Her brother and I became close during my FIL's last few months as I was there to help out however I could (and I wouldn't change that) and my MIL and I became closer too. It's all added pressure on her to do the "right thing" and it doesn't help in any way.
This past Christmas, even though we were on better terms, I opted not to attend her Christmas dinner at her mom's and I can tell that this had an effect on her. But it didn't feel appropriate if we weren't together.
It's easy to rationalize as Steve said...but your better off doing your own thing both for your sanity and mental health as well as so she can see what life without you is like.
I was having a difficult time getting my head around what Steve, R2C, AS, and ovrrnbw said. Your example helped a lot, thank you Jac12.
I can't help but feel conflicted over this. On one hand, I know detachment is the best move right now. On the other, I do not want to disappoint / betray my in laws. Especially when they have given me their support. So I need advice on a few matters:
- (1) As I mentioned, they have invited me to several upcoming family events and now have to turn them down. What is the best way to do this? I care about them and I do not want to appear cold or harsh. Should I be honest and explain to tell them that I am DB-ing?
- (2) This is a bit more specific - W's niece has a birthday this weekend. I plan to decline the invite but I'll am planning to buy the niece a present. Maybe I'll just pass the present to my in laws. Is this an acceptable move? Or does it still look like pursuit and pressuring to W?
- (3) W's parents are religious people and they view this as a spiritual problem (i.e. something is wrong with W, an evil spirit is possessing her, something along those lines). I don't really buy into these things as I personally think it's something psychological. I tried to convince them otherwise, but they seemed adamant on their belief. They have been hiring people to give "spiritual treatment" to W. These treatments are harmless, but I think it is giving pressure to W. I wonder if there are vets here that had a similar thing, and what is their advice on it.
- (4) W has expressed that she would want to still be able to see my parents. Should I let her?
- (5) I also mentioned, W and I worked at the same place. She occasionally buys me food. Should I ask her to stop? I believe she is buying it for personal reasons i.e. doing it as a good deed to counteract her "sins".
1) Do not explain anything.
2) It is OK to pass the present.
3) Listen and validate. Do not share your opinions.
4) Yes. Let her see your parents whenever she wants. Do not try to control her.
5) Accept the food. Do not make assumptions. Do not be overly or underly enthusiastic. Be present. Be a listerner, not a talker. Be the first to leave.
1) Do NOT tell anyone in your circle, friends or family, that you are DB'ing. That's for you.
2) pass the present along
3) As R2C said
4) As R2C said
5) If you want the food, say thanks and eat it. If you don't, politely decline....you're ASSUMING she's doing it as a deed to counteract her food but you really don't know so don't pretend.
I'll add this: The more you try and read into everything she does or says the tougher time you will have. Nothing is going to make much sense and that's just the way it's going to be for a bit. Leave her be, stay positive, and focus on you.
Alright, thanks R2C & Jac. I'll take note of your advice.
W just texted, some of her things are still here at my place: "Can you help me bring my sandals tomorrow. Thank you"
I am tempted to reply with "I won't do that. You are free to get them here if you wish".
Should I?
How about “I leave them on the front porch”?
How about “I leave them on the front porch”?
Hi LH. Can you explain to me your rationale for that suggestion?
To my understanding, detachment would mean I should stop doing favours for her..? W is capable of coming here and getting her things. From her text she sounded like she expected that I would comply, even though I haven’t replied yet.
Actually if you were detached you wouldn’t even ask that question you would do what feels natural to you.
She is coming to get them you are just putting them out on the porch for her.
Oh right. I thought you meant I would leave the things in front of her front porch. Thank you for clarifying.
I guess that is my goal at the moment. To work on detachment and letting go. Time to GAL like crazy.
F,
I just read your first post and man I feel for you. This is supposed to be the best part of marriage and she pulls this on you. Is she in IC? If not it should be a requirement by you for reconciliation.
Good luck my friend!
Thanks LH,
I find it hard to detach sometimes because I always fall back into thinking what should have been: I should be happily married, laughing with W, had a good honeymoon, new family, new life. But here I am. Having only felt only five days of blissful married life and then everything broke down. It is what it is, I suppose.
I brought the both of us to an IC earlier on in my sitch (Dec 2019). We had two sessions, then we haven't gone since. I did mention to her earlier this month to go see the IC again and gave her the freedom to set up an appointment whenever she wants. She needs it more than I do since she said she have "problems" and felt "broken". She expressed her willingness to go at the time.
It's been three weeks since then and she hasn't gone to the IC. I am concerned, however I will not press the issue. It's her problem, not mine. I should focus on myself at the moment.
That's all normal funbun.
Like you said, I wouldn't even mention the IC. Your W will go only if and when she wants to. Plus there are a ton of IC/MC's out there that aren't worth a hoot in my opinion. I'm not sure which part of the world you are in, that may make a difference.
Thanks LH,
I find it hard to detach sometimes because I always fall back into thinking what should have been: I should be happily married, laughing with W, had a good honeymoon, new family, new life. But here I am. Having only felt only five days of blissful married life and then everything broke down. It is what it is, I suppose.
I brought the both of us to an IC earlier on in my sitch (Dec 2019). We had two sessions, then we haven't gone since. I did mention to her earlier this month to go see the IC again and gave her the freedom to set up an appointment whenever she wants. She needs it more than I do since she said she have "problems" and felt "broken". She expressed her willingness to go at the time.
It's been three weeks since then and she hasn't gone to the IC. I am concerned, however I will not press the issue. It's her problem, not mine. I should focus on myself at the moment.
This is hard. But I see some controlling tendencies in this and your other posts. You can have a heart change here. It isn't down to you to 'let' your W see your parents or not: whatever the state of your marriage, or otherwise, she has total freedom there, as do your parents.
Similarly, you might have an opinion on whether she or you need IC more but really, whatever is going on with her is none of your business. Could you use some IC at the moment? Do you have some personal development goals and targets that IC would support you with? If so, then make that appointment. If you don't perhaps detaching and focussing on yourself means coming up with those goals. Who do you want to be? Your wife isn't a child and if she decides IC will support her in her goals, she is as capable as you are of setting that up for yourself. To be a married woman in a mature and adult relationship she needs to be capable of that kind of self reflection and taking of responsibility - you deserve to have a partner like that rather than a child who needs to be 'brought' to counselling. And you can't get her there no matter what you do: all you can do is get out of the way and let life work on her and her do with that as she will.
I realise this is tricky for you as you seem to have good relations with your W's family and they also treat her like a child - perhaps with her co-operation. Perhaps they're going to try to advise her or cure her or pressure her or charm her into doing what they think is best. And perhaps because what they think is best (marriage with you) is also what you want, it is going to be hard for you to detach from them and not collude in their efforts. But for the health of yourself and any future relationship with your W, it is essential you back away from it all and treat her as the adult she is.
Thanks LH,
I find it hard to detach sometimes because I always fall back into thinking what should have been: I should be happily married, laughing with W, had a good honeymoon, new family, new life. But here I am. Having only felt only five days of blissful married life and then everything broke down. It is what it is, I suppose.
I brought the both of us to an IC earlier on in my sitch (Dec 2019). We had two sessions, then we haven't gone since. I did mention to her earlier this month to go see the IC again and gave her the freedom to set up an appointment whenever she wants. She needs it more than I do since she said she have "problems" and felt "broken". She expressed her willingness to go at the time.
It's been three weeks since then and she hasn't gone to the IC. I am concerned, however I will not press the issue. It's her problem, not mine. I should focus on myself at the moment.
One of the things that I realized during my sitch was something that I always have heard, but really started to understand is the old saying "Life's not fair."
And there are two ways to look at your sitch in the frame of "life's not fair". Yes the specific circumstances of your sitch are tough, no question. But would you rather she go along with the marriage, unhappy, for the next 20 years, and then pull the plug? I feel that was my sitch. I think my W started having doubts not too long after our wedding. I think she saw getting married as the destination instead of the beginning of a journey. For 20 years we had fits, starts and stops, problems, anger, resentment, passive-aggressiveness, strife because of these doubts, and her wrong idea of getting married, being married, and marriage in general. I think there was a limerance addiction she had and once we settled into the drudgery of married life, she started to regret her headlong rush to get married. About 9 months into our R she started making noise about wanting to get married. As if getting married were the prize, the goal, but she really didn't have a plan after that.
So as much as it would have hurt for her to pull the plug early on in the marriage, how much more pain and agony did I endure because she waited 20 years to finally throw in the towel? When we had a child, and were heavily invested in each other's lives in all the ways 2 people that are together for 2 decades are. You talk about being attached to her family, imagine knowing them for 22 years?? Now let's juxtapose my sitch with yours. Imagine that you pull the plug yourself, decide to move on, follow through on D, and start dating. Meet a gorgeous new woman, date for a couple of years, get married, have kids and spend the next 2 decades in a healthy, happy marriage. Which one of the two guys, you or me, would you want to be?
So while right now you have an attitude of "why me"? In 20 years you may turnaround and realize what a gift she has given you! That being married to someone who doesn't want to be married for 2 decades would be a lot of pain, frustration, anger, and turmoil. That someone in my sitch 2 years ago would have jumped at the opportunity to have had their WAW/WW that apparently never wanted to be married to them to have 5 days in pulled the plug so that they could have moved on, while young, to a happier life. So while you are in tremendous pain, it is similar to removing a bandaid. Would you want someone, 5 days in, to start slowly pulling that bandaid and prolong the pain for 20 years? Or to have someone 5 days in, just rip it off and have it over with quickly?
Just thought I would share that perspective in light of your latest post.
I'll pray for you man, that you may find inner-peace no matter the outcome of your MR.
I can't help but feel conflicted over this. On one hand, I know detachment is the best move right now. On the other, I do not want to disappoint / betray my in laws. Especially when they have given me their support. So I need advice on a few matters:
As I mentioned, they have invited me to several upcoming family events and now have to turn them down. What is the best way to do this? I care about them and I do not want to appear cold or harsh. Should I be honest and explain to tell them that I am DB-ing?
Don't say anything to them about DB'ing. Just tell them that you love them and appreciate their kind gestures, but given the situation between W and you right now that you feel it's inappropriate for you to continue going to these events for now, but you are hopeful that things will be better in the future. Tell them you and W both need space to think about things. If they continue to push you then just state that you've already made your decision and you hope that they respect and honor that in this difficult time.
This is a bit more specific - W's niece has a birthday this weekend. I plan to decline the invite but I'll am planning to buy the niece a present. Maybe I'll just pass the present to my in laws. Is this an acceptable move? Or does it still look like pursuit and pressuring to W?
As the others said, pass the gift along.
W's parents are religious people and they view this as a spiritual problem (i.e. something is wrong with W, an evil spirit is possessing her, something along those lines). I don't really buy into these things as I personally think it's something psychological.
A religious person describing it as a spiritual problem is frankly not a lot different than a doctor describing is as a psychological problem though. It's just two different ways to describe the same ailment.
They have been hiring people to give "spiritual treatment" to W. These treatments are harmless, but I think it is giving pressure to W. I wonder if there are vets here that had a similar thing, and what is their advice on it.
Let them do what they are going to do. The pressure is from them, not you. And it's likely to drive her farther away from them. STAY OUT OF IT. Don't offer advice to her or to them, just let them do what they are going to do. You should remain completely neutral on the matter.
W has expressed that she would want to still be able to see my parents. Should I let her?
Tell her she is welcome to communicate with them, but you don't want her joining in any joint activities with you and your parents. No parties or family get-togethers. Tell your parents as well, that you have no objections to them continuing to communicate with her but do not talk to her about the M or your R at all. And also ask them not to invite her to any family functions for now. Similar to the talk with your in-laws, you can explain that you hope this is temporary but you feel it's necessary given the situation and will help both you and your W to think about things with better clarity.
I also mentioned, W and I worked at the same place. She occasionally buys me food. Should I ask her to stop? I believe she is buying it for personal reasons i.e. doing it as a good deed to counteract her "sins".
No that's fine. If she wants to pursue you, do favors of whatever, let it happen. Just don't have any expectations that it means anything, because it's probably just "pity" like you suspect.
W just texted, some of her things are still here at my place: "Can you help me bring my sandals tomorrow. Thank you"
I would box up EVERYTHING that is hers at your place and give her the box tomorrow.
Text her back:
H"Yes."
Thank you everyone. Sincerely. Your words help bring perspective and focus into my life. I needed it, as I tend to lose focus and start doubting myself over time.
Could you use some IC at the moment? Do you have some personal development goals and targets that IC would support you with? If so, then make that appointment. If you don't perhaps detaching and focussing on yourself means coming up with those goals. Who do you want to be? Your wife isn't a child and if she decides IC will support her in her goals, she is as capable as you are of setting that up for yourself. To be a married woman in a mature and adult relationship she needs to be capable of that kind of self reflection and taking of responsibility - you deserve to have a partner like that rather than a child who needs to be 'brought' to counselling. And you can't get her there no matter what you do: all you can do is get out of the way and let life work on her and her do with that as she will.
I went to the IC yesterday. We talked about a lot of things: letting go, my anxious attachment style, W's past withdrawal from R, and the unfairness of life. He commended on my ability to be reflective and for having processed so much. That felt nice, to know that I did something right.
One of the things that IC said that resonated with me was "You should trust your W to have the capacity to handle all of this on her own". I had the notion that being the husband, the man of the house, I have to take responsibility over W (culturally too, that is expected here in my country). I learned that some problems are not mine to "own". I can help or offer advice to an extent, but not in a way that jeopardizes my well-being.
And there are two ways to look at your sitch in the frame of "life's not fair". Yes the specific circumstances of your sitch are tough, no question. But would you rather she go along with the marriage, unhappy, for the next 20 years, and then pull the plug? I feel that was my sitch. I think my W started having doubts not too long after our wedding. I think she saw getting married as the destination instead of the beginning of a journey. For 20 years we had fits, starts and stops, problems, anger, resentment, passive-aggressiveness, strife because of these doubts, and her wrong idea of getting married, being married, and marriage in general. I think there was a limerance addiction she had and once we settled into the drudgery of married life, she started to regret her headlong rush to get married. About 9 months into our R she started making noise about wanting to get married. As if getting married were the prize, the goal, but she really didn't have a plan after that.
So as much as it would have hurt for her to pull the plug early on in the marriage, how much more pain and agony did I endure because she waited 20 years to finally throw in the towel? When we had a child, and were heavily invested in each other's lives in all the ways 2 people that are together for 2 decades are. You talk about being attached to her family, imagine knowing them for 22 years?? Now let's juxtapose my sitch with yours. Imagine that you pull the plug yourself, decide to move on, follow through on D, and start dating. Meet a gorgeous new woman, date for a couple of years, get married, have kids and spend the next 2 decades in a healthy, happy marriage. Which one of the two guys, you or me, would you want to be?
So while right now you have an attitude of "why me"? In 20 years you may turnaround and realize what a gift she has given you! That being married to someone who doesn't want to be married for 2 decades would be a lot of pain, frustration, anger, and turmoil. That someone in my sitch 2 years ago would have jumped at the opportunity to have had their WAW/WW that apparently never wanted to be married to them to have 5 days in pulled the plug so that they could have moved on, while young, to a happier life. So while you are in tremendous pain, it is similar to removing a bandaid. Would you want someone, 5 days in, to start slowly pulling that bandaid and prolong the pain for 20 years? Or to have someone 5 days in, just rip it off and have it over with quickly?.
Steve, these are wise words coming from experience and hardship. I truly value what you have said here, it helped, thank you for this. I took the time to read your first thread, I can't imagine the frustration you went through all those years and I agree with you, I do not want that for myself.
You used the word "limerance" here. I didn't know what it meant, I looked it up. It sounded like what I am having (though not to the extent your wife did). I have been wondering why have I stayed in this R for so long even though there were red flags with W: the intimacy issues, love not being reciprocated, W's distancer behaviour. I thought about what broken part of me has prevented me from seeing this and breaking off the R earlier on before getting M. What broken part of me has kept me going even though this R is unfulfilling. It seems like I was living in a world of fantasy. That I loved the idea of W. That I believed too much in W being the one for me. I was in love with her best qualities too much that I ignored or justified the bad ones. I am going to work on this going forward.
One of the things that IC said that resonated with me was "You should trust your W to have the capacity to handle all of this on her own". I had the notion that being the husband, the man of the house, I have to take responsibility over W (culturally too, that is expected here in my country). I learned that some problems are not mine to "own". I can help or offer advice to an extent, but not in a way that jeopardizes my well-being.
I think it's really helpful that you're having these type of conversations, and that you can be reflective on what about the way you've been taught or the ideas you've picked up along the way needs to be reframed or rejected, and what you can keep and take with you into the future. I think we all have to do this, no matter what culture we've been brought up in. I think it is very possible for marriages where there is a 'man is the head of the household' model to thrive, for both parties to feel respected and equal and for there to be no co-dependency. I think for that to work, the woman especially needs to have reflected on it carefully, understand what she wants and commit to it. Perhaps your wife just didn't do that. Perhaps she's having trouble with the transition of being led by her parents and now, being led by you - and this is why the trouble started so soon after marriage, when the moment of that transition was so clear.
I think all of us come into marriage with unexamined assumptions about what marriage actually is. I know I did - the nature of the culture might be slightly different but the transition feels similar to me: this really isn't what you expected and it probably isn't what she expected either and you're both having problems.
I think your counsellor is right. It sounds like your wife lacks maturity which makes a marriage impossible. She won't get maturity by delegating her growth to either her husband or her parents. And, I'm sorry to say, if you step back and let her handle it on her own - as your counsellor advised you - then her parents are likely to step in and carry on babying her. There's not a thing you can do about that and it is horrible. I think you should just package up her things and drop them off with her, continue to be polite to her at work, let her know you won't stand in the way of a divorce if she wants one, and distance yourself from her parents.
I think all of us come into marriage with unexamined assumptions about what marriage actually is. I know I did - the nature of the culture might be slightly different but the transition feels similar to me: this really isn't what you expected and it probably isn't what she expected either and you're both having problems.
I think your counsellor is right. It sounds like your wife lacks maturity which makes a marriage impossible. She won't get maturity by delegating her growth to either her husband or her parents. And, I'm sorry to say, if you step back and let her handle it on her own - as your counsellor advised you - then her parents are likely to step in and carry on babying her. There's not a thing you can do about that and it is horrible. I think you should just package up her things and drop them off with her, continue to be polite to her at work, let her know you won't stand in the way of a divorce if she wants one, and distance yourself from her parents.
I agree with you Alison. It's hard to pinpoint what exactly went wrong with W that caused her to breakdown and then BD. If I were to put my money on it, it would be on the fact that she's is having difficulty with the transition into married life. She plunged into depression because she lost her old life and is afraid of this married life, for whatever reason. Now she is using me, vilifying me, in order to justify getting out of this two months old marriage. I didn't even get the chance to properly show her what this married life could be like. I had only four days. A shame. Though some would argue it wouldn't make a difference even if I had that chance.
From my understanding, she is not a WW nor a WAW. As the others have advised, the only good move here is to distance, let her sort out her s***, I take care of myself, and make sure the road back home is smooth.
Take care of myself, and make sure the road back home is smooth.
You might find - I don't know, only sharing from experience here - that once you work on your own issues - anxious attachment, control (perhaps) and anything else that comes up for you as a result of this journey - you will change, and what your W has to offer you will no longer be something you want. I think that's roughly where I am at in my journey now - and it isn't particularly pleasant. Don't be too surprised if once you've done your own growing, your wife's immaturity becomes more unattractive to you.
Update post
I declined going to W's niece birthday party, here's the translated text exchange between us:
Before that, a bit of context: only close family members and friends know of our sitch. Both of us do not want more people to know. We've only been married for two months and if people know that we're heading towards D then they are going to talk. W and her family want to avoid the humility and avoid looking bad. We agreed earlier on during the separation that we'll have to continue to come to family events and pretend everything is normal. As for me, right now, I couldn't care less anymore. People will talk eventually. I am only complying with it all this time to not cause any more stress to W. Fearing it will push her away.
W: What's the plan tomorrow you're going to the birthday?
Me: I am not able to come. I'll text [MIL] and [SIL] later and inform them, since they are the ones that invited me.
W: Why are you not able to come?
W: Haven't updated you. The other people that recently know about our situation is [a few of her uncles and aunts]. That's all.
W: and what's with the "since they are the ones that invited me". Were you waiting for me to ask you to come? We agreed earlier to go to all family gatherings. I don't know what is happening with your side of the family because if no one said anything to me then I wouldn't know if there is a family gathering or whatever.
Me: I have other plans tomorrow.
W: That's what I'm gonna go tell my family?
Me: Yes
W: Alright
She seemed displeased with me not going. As that would cause her more trouble. But she can manage that on her own *shrugs*
I want to have feedback regarding my responses in this exchange. Is this okay? Or does it seemed to cold?
Perfect responses.
Less words is almost always better. Vague is good.
I would find something to do that you would enjoy.
I also like how you formatted your post. Makes it very easy to read.
I feel better these past few days compared to last week. Feeling less lonely and was able to focus better on the things in my life and work. Started going to the gym again and had a few outings with friends. I don't get as many headaches from thinking about all of this.
I have all the time in the world right now. Life is quieter, but at least it's peaceful.
You might find - I don't know, only sharing from experience here - that once you work on your own issues - anxious attachment, control (perhaps) and anything else that comes up for you as a result of this journey - you will change, and what your W has to offer you will no longer be something you want. I think that's roughly where I am at in my journey now - and it isn't particularly pleasant. Don't be too surprised if once you've done your own growing, your wife's immaturity becomes more unattractive to you.
I agree Alison. I get turned off when I think back to all the rejection and cold treatment that W has done to me. And she's still doing it now! It's crazy to think that I was able to put up with all of that before this. I should have been the WAS! lol. If W wants to come back, it has to be better and I should not accept anything less than I deserve.
I am contemplating on not wearing the ring during this period of NC with W.
Wearing it might make me look like I am still pursuing W or as me not giving up the pursuit. I do not want that at the moment. I want to erase all signs of pursuit and just be absent during this period.
I remember someone (maybe Steve?) mentioning there are several benefits to keep the ring on. Would someone be willing to share these with me?
Those were perfect responses, Funbun. Whether you tell people about your situation or not is up to you. I decided not to speak to his family or mutual friends, but had one or two of my own friends I felt free to confide in. H was very angry and paranoid that I'd been speaking badly about him to mutual friends and acquaintances - but I didn't bother to defend myself or engage with that. I don't know anything about who he has told or what he has told, and I don't ask or think about that too much any more.
As for the ring - well, the benefit to me was in signalling to others - men - that I was married and not available or looking for a sexual or romantic relationship. For me, that would be true no matter what H did up until we were formally divorced. We have a long relationship and the wellbeing of children to consider. In your shoes, I might choose differently. I think the main thing is to suit yourself and your own values here and not make any choice that is about getting a reaction from your W.
Update post
I declined going to W's niece birthday party, here's the translated text exchange between us:
Before that, a bit of context: only close family members and friends know of our sitch. Both of us do not want more people to know. We've only been married for two months and if people know that we're heading towards D then they are going to talk. W and her family want to avoid the humility and avoid looking bad. We agreed earlier on during the separation that we'll have to continue to come to family events and pretend everything is normal. As for me, right now, I couldn't care less anymore. People will talk eventually. I am only complying with it all this time to not cause any more stress to W. Fearing it will push her away.
W: What's the plan tomorrow you're going to the birthday?
Me: I am not able to come. I'll text [MIL] and [SIL] later and inform them, since they are the ones that invited me.
W: Why are you not able to come?
W: Haven't updated you. The other people that recently know about our situation is [a few of her uncles and aunts]. That's all.
W: and what's with the "since they are the ones that invited me". Were you waiting for me to ask you to come? We agreed earlier to go to all family gatherings. I don't know what is happening with your side of the family because if no one said anything to me then I wouldn't know if there is a family gathering or whatever.
Me: I have other plans tomorrow.
W: That's what I'm gonna go tell my family?
Me: Yes
W: Alright
She seemed displeased with me not going. As that would cause her more trouble. But she can manage that on her own *shrugs*
I want to have feedback regarding my responses in this exchange. Is this okay? Or does it seemed to cold?
Fun, I'm giving you a standing ovation here. This. Is. PERFECT!!!
I am contemplating on not wearing the ring during this period of NC with W.
Wearing it might make me look like I am still pursuing W or as me not giving up the pursuit. I do not want that at the moment. I want to erase all signs of pursuit and just be absent during this period.
I remember someone (maybe Steve?) mentioning there are several benefits to keep the ring on. Would someone be willing to share these with me?
To me it's a matter of principle. You are married, you should wear the symbol of that marriage until such a time that you are no longer married. She is breaking her vows but that doesn't mean you should too. Also it shows others, her included, that you are standing for your marriage.
Finally, it will avoid unwanted attention from the opposite sex. If there is anything worse than relationship issues it is having issues with two relationships! And if you're not ready to move on to another R, and right now you're not, a new R can only result in more issues.
Thank you R2C, Alison, and Steve for your kind words and also input. I will keep the ring on for now
Whoops, just realized that this weekend we have a bunch of events lined up that both W and I need to attend to. How am I going to NC my way through this
(1) W's Cousin's Wedding - a four day event
(2) A mutual friend's bridal shower - I am hosting the activities so I kinda have to be there
Planning to skip the wedding entirely. W will be upset, because that would mean she would have to come up with an excuse to make M looks as if it's functioning normally to non-suspecting family members. Not my problem though, she can handle that. I know my parents-in-laws will be disappointed if I don't go. It breaks my heart to disappoint them, since they have been kind and supportive, but this is what I have to do.
I guess I'll go to the Bridal Shower, out of necessity. They need me there to run the event. Also, they are my friends too. I do not want to give up spending time with them just because W will be there. W will probably request that we go together (one car) to make it not look conspicuous to friends. I'll leave that to her choice.
She will probably text me what my plans are for these events, I'll just say:
"I would love to go, but given our current situation, it's best that I don't. But I will go to the bridal shower because they'll need my help"
Thoughts?
Whoops, just realized that this weekend we have a bunch of events lined up that both W and I need to attend to. How am I going to NC my way through this
(1) W's Cousin's Wedding - a four day event
(2) A mutual friend's bridal shower - I am hosting the activities so I kinda have to be there
Planning to skip the wedding entirely. W will be upset, because that would mean she would have to come up with an excuse to make M looks as if it's functioning normally to non-suspecting family members. Not my problem though, she can handle that. I know my parents-in-laws will be disappointed if I don't go. It breaks my heart to disappoint them, since they have been kind and supportive, but this is what I have to do.
I guess I'll go to the Bridal Shower, out of necessity. They need me there to run the event. Also, they are my friends too. I do not want to give up spending time with them just because W will be there. W will probably request that we go together (one car) to make it not look conspicuous to friends. I'll leave that to her choice.
She will probably text me what my plans are for these events, I'll just say:
"I would love to go, but given our current situation, it's best that I don't. But I will go to the bridal shower because they'll need my help"
Thoughts?
Funbun...The wedding may be a tough one - to me these are moments that you can't replace. I was going to be faced with this too as my BIL is getting married in May. Now, my situation has improved but I was planning on attending the wedding but leaving shortly after dinner. Arriving and leaving on my own. The fact that yours is a 4 day event is tricky but I think you are correct in not attending. It's simple, she doesn't want you in her life and this is her family.
As for your text reply, I think you are trying to make her realize what this is causing and I think your replies should be short and to the point.
W: Why aren't you coming to the wedding?
Funbun: I've decided not to, it's your family and you should enjoy the time with them"
W: You're putting me in a bad position, what will I tell people?
Funbun: I understand it may be tough but you've asked for space and I respect that - I also need time. You go and have a nice time.
As for the shower:
W: Will you be at the shower?
Funbun: Of course, I'm helping to run it.
Leave it at that...You don't have to ask her if she'll be there or press for any details. Show her that you are ok with what you've chosen and you aren't trying to make her feel bad. Let her live with her feelings and choices. I think the last thing you want to do is be vindictive (or appearing vindictive in her mind).
Jac,
Those were great responses. They do sound slightly warmer and less vindictive. I will rethink my response.
I am still generally confused with what kind of tone I should be having when interacting with W through text. I know I should be direct, brief, and vague. However, depending on the type of WAW, the tone should be different..? I read that for WW you need to be rather strict and business like..? But for certain WAW, you need to sound much more gentle..?
But what about when in NC? When it’s necessary to break NC and respond. Should it be a cold reply?
Never cold funbun! You don´t want to come across like you´re in a bad mood. You should seem happy and upbeat but don´t overdo it so it seems fake
Will do BenB! Thanks!
UpdateAs expected, W texted and asked if I am coming. I replied that I will not go(in a respectful manner). Then along comes a string of texts from W, I guess she is angry *shrugs*
Here are some of her points:
- "You didn't come to the last one, you should come to this one"
- "Think about my parents and my family (something about saving face)"
- "I am not asking you to spend time with me, just talk to my parents and family"
Then she ended it with:
"
If you don't want to go then go ahead, but I'll make it clear that you're the one who doesn't want to come, not me" (shifting blame to me, so that her family doesn't blame her for my absence)
Her mother texted me shortly after, pleading me to come to the wedding. I could detach myself from W's text, but this is harder for me to deal with because of how nice W's parents are and I feel guilty. She is also asking me to come to the house tomorrow for another round of "spiritual treatment". I've been pulling back from everything and now they think there is something wrong with me too. Oh my.
I haven't responded to them yet. Here's my plan:
- To W: Validate and then quickly end the convo.
- I'll comply and I'll come to the "spiritual treatment". They'll probably talk me into going to the wedding but I'll try to hold my ground. I'll just listen, validate and detach when they tell me things. Then promptly leave when done.
- To MIL: "I really appreciate the invite. I would love to go to the wedding. I'm sorry, but I need space for the time being. Please understand"
I could really use feedback and advice. Feeling rather conflicted right now.
I think you've got a great plan of action there. I don't think I would go to the spiritual treatment either though. "Given what W and I are going through right now I don't feel it would be appropriate for me to go, we both need some time and space to think about things."
If W keeps pushing you, "I've already made my decision." Stand tall, don't let her bully you.
I think you've got a great plan of action there. I don't think I would go to the spiritual treatment either though. "Given what W and I are going through right now I don't feel it would be appropriate for me to go, we both need some time and space to think about things."
If W keeps pushing you, "I've already made my decision." Stand tall, don't let her bully you.
Thanks AS.
I wish not to involve the in laws with this. It makes things complicated. They have a different approach and can derail my DB-ing. If only I can make them understand what I am doing. I know I shouldn't reveal my plans, but if only. Then I can get them on the same page and I don't have to feel guilty going against them.
At the moment, W is not pushing me. She doesn't seem to care. Her parents are talking me into coming. Why oh why. I stopped my pursuit, but instead of W pursuing back, her parents are the ones to do so. *facepalm*
From Destroyd' s thread:
Hello D,
I am new here and also in the early stages of my sitch. Just read your thread. It seemed like you were heading in the right direction when you last posted last year. Then suddenly the EA. It must be heartbreaking. I don't have advice, but I am sending you my prayers. I'll be reading what happened for the past 8 month once you've posted.
Seems like there are two types of LBS's- those whose spouses are in affairs, and those who don't know it yet. Hope you are doing well!
Reading this is scary to me. At the moment, there is no evidence of EA for my wife. I am scared there is one but I just don't know it yet.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worse. I guess.
Ok, so let's play along. Suppose she is in an A. What does that change?
Ok, so let's play along. Suppose she is in an A. What does that change?
To be honest? I'd D her right away.
That would be the last straw. I am not going to take with that level of disrespect and betrayal from W.
Though that is just talk at the moment, who knows what I'll do for real. Humans are fickle creatures.
One thing I realize from my sitch is that I really do deserve someone better. Someone who wants me for me. What kind of W decides to leave her H on Day 5 of M. Pffffft.
Don't get me wrong. I miss her and I wish her to be back. However, I also know that she can't return the same. I know I am making changes of my own. She has too. Like many have said in this site: the old marriage has died, either she returns and we build a new one, or I find the strength to let go and find someone better.
I am in bed. It’s harder at night. Your thoughts wonder and sometimes to dark places. Every night I just hope I sleep fast enough before my mind dives into depressing thoughts.
I am writing this to help me clear out my mind. Sorta like the thing you do in a confession box.
Right now I am thinking about my previous R. The one before I am with my W. It was a 12 year relationship. It was a good relationship, I was healthy there, there was nothing wrong with it. One day I broke it off because I got bored and it was no longer fulfilling. And I was attracted to another woman: who is now my current W.
In a lot of ways, in my previous R with my exgf, I was the wayward one. I remember her pleading me to come back. I remember how much pain she was in and how cold I was. I remember feeling guilty for a long time for it. She truly cared about me, and I betrayed her. Stabbed her in the heart. I felt like I killed her. The guilt of leaving that relationship.. I guess it’s still exist now.
I can’t but feel all of this is karma in the works. Punishment from god for what I did to my ex. Now it has come full circle.
So I know what it feels like to be a wayward partner. To say ILYBIANILWY, to vilify a good partner just so that I can get out of a R, to feel nothing towards someone whom you’ve been intimate with for a long time.
I remember my ex doing what I am doing to W now in order to get the loved one back. NC, being nice. It didn’t work on me. I was headstrong and I still walked. If my W is like my past wayward self then this is truly an uphill battle. God help me.
“The night is long, and full of terrors”
You're in India or that part of the world right? I saw the 4 day wedding thing too. It's light out somewhere, remember that.
Use the stop sign technique to help control your thoughts. It's in Divorce Remedy.
Leaving a girlfriend is not betrayal IMO. No one committed for life. You couldn't leave and not hurt her, but that doesn't mean you're wrong for leaving.
You're doing well. Why are you supposed to play happy family when she wants out of the marriage? I don't get it. Your in laws are playing Fix It but they can't make her want you.
You really shouldn't do the spiritual treatment. Your in-laws are doing that in order to persuade or convince your W into doing something she doesn't want to do. You should not participate in that.
Your wife wants to have her cake and eat it. That's why she wants you at these events. She doesn't want a marriage, but she also doesn't want to have to explain to anyone she respects she doesn't want to be married. That's her problem and not yours. If you rob her of the opportunity of having to face that conundrum and deal with it, you're robbing her of a maturity and growth experience she badly needs to have.
Your guilt about disappointing your in-laws by saying a loving and respectful no to them is your problem to deal with. Think of it this way: being clear firm and loving in your 'no' is a great skill to have - whether for a future reconciled marriage with your W, as a parent, if that ever comes to you, or in future healthier relationships. You owe it to yourself to develop this skill.