How long to try when it was (mostly) your fault?

Divorcebusting.com

Hi - this is my first post. I could use some advice. Here's my story, as brief as I can make it . . .

H: 46 (me)
W: 43
D: 11
S: 8
S: 4

Married 21 years, together 22 years. Fundamental issue that brought us to this point was my infidelity. Still legally married but total marriage breakdown about 6 months ago, now sleeping in separate rooms; zero intimacy; zero conversation that doesn't involve the kids; civil (mostly, but much better than when we were fighting over the past 2 years); we co-parent, still eat meals together, take the kids to church together, go to kids activities together. But there is zero "relationship" between us right now.

I'd also like to say up front that I know that I bear most of the blame for where things are right now. I've failed in many ways, and I know I hurt her while I was in the midst of my own mid-life crisis. I don't intend to make excuses for my failings, but I think some context will help convey the situation. But for the sake of the complete story, I will try to offer a balanced explanation of the things that led us here.

We married relatively early in life. I've always supported us financially, including paying for her to finish her college education. I worked full-time and went to school at night to better my education and earning potential; in the time we've been together, she's worked as a freelancer for maybe 2-3 years in between the time she finished university and before our first child was born. Since then, she's been a stay-at-home mom, and a very good one. For years, I worked a very stressful and demanding job but was fortunate enough to make pretty good money doing so. Money is probably part of what drove us into marital crisis, so that's why I mentioned it.

Like most young couples, we had dreams of our future together. We lived modestly but in an expensive urban area, but we bought an old cottage in the country and talked about moving there and raising a family in a simple life once we were able to financially; we spent vacations and time there renovating it etc.

Over time, the stress of my job, my long commute (3 hours per day), and my concern and stress about providing for the future really messed me up. We both come from decent but lower-class families, with no financial support; so I felt the pressure of it all being on me. I was stuck in a job that required me to work late nights, weekends, and deal with unpleasant people; making good money but lacking job security as well. I tried, and tried, and tried to find another job, literally applying to hundreds of jobs over about an 8 year period, but nothing worked out. She was (is) a great homemaker and mother, and she started to really like her role at home like that. But I felt myself growing frustrated and bitter day by day. We had paid off our litte home in the country and had enough to live on for a good while and I suggested we just go, but she didn't want to. She liked our nice wealthy town and our lifestyle and friends, and her mind had changed and she thought moving out to the country would take away opportunities for the kids. I wanted out of the daily grind I felt I was living, but I felt stuck. I felt panic. I felt tired. I felt bitter. And I was hitting "middle age" and felt for the first time my own impending mortality.

Then I did the dumbest thing I ever did and got involved with another woman. I understand now that it was really an escape from my own stress and mental anguish. I got emotionally attached to her, too, which only made it worse. It was mostly emotional, in fact -- we lived quite a distance apart, but there was physical infidelity as well.

My affair came out about 2 years ago. I had finally found a new job, making less than half of what I made before -- JUST ENOUGH for us to live on (still in an expensive area) but far less than most of our friends and neighbors. The hours were better, but a new job always comes with some stress before you settle in, and the adjustment to the much lower income was hard to make. But most stressful of all was my own inner shame at what I was doing carrying on the affair. I still loved my wife, but also felt love for this other woman (who wanted me to run away with her) but I knew what I was doing was so wrong, and I loathed myself for not living the life of a good man. My wife finally sensed something was wrong, asked me directly what was going on, and I broke down and confessed the affair to her. That was about 2 years ago.

I admitted to my wife that I was emotionally attached to the other woman, loved her even, but that I was confused and also wracked with guilt. Looking back, I see that I was in a co-dependent relationship with the other woman. I told my wife I needed time, time to think things through. I never was cold or uncaring toward her, and we continued to be intimate, but it was extremely hurtful to her and I was being selfish. But breaking it off with the other woman was difficult to do --- mostly because of the guilt and unhealthy co-dependency that I had let her develop toward me. The other woman lived quite a distance away, so I rarely saw her during this time, but even just talking to her was continued infidelity. I felt bad, but I was trying to sort out my feelings, disconnect emotionally from the other woman, and get myself straight in the head.

This dragged on for months, while my wife was trying to hold our marriage together. But then, in the midst of that, I discovered that my wife had also been unfaithful, with two different men --- not 100% consummated, but not nothing either. One of them was her good "friend" from high school who she had been in touch with since I knew her --- they were always very close, and he and I never got along; supposedly that was "just kissing," plus the emotional connection they always had (which I then saw as an emotional infidelity beyond just being "friends"). The other one was some guy I never met, some random guy from the gym or wherever -- "just oral sex" and "just one time." Supposedly everything ended when we had kids a decade ago.

I was livid. It was very hypocritical of me, but I was very angry. Yelling, cursing, took off my wedding ring. I felt betrayed, of course, just as she must have. But after confessing my infidelity to her and walking around as "the bad one" for months, and then finding out that she seemingly had no problem cheating on me and hiding it from me for years. To her it was ancient history but for me it felt like it could have been yesterday.

Eventually, about 6 months after it came out, I ended communication with the other woman, although by that time my wife had also taken her wedding ring off. We were still trying to make it work, but there was a lot of hurt and anger and jealousy seething under the surface for both of us.

My wife suggested counseling, but I was distrustful of counseling, thinking that they were geared toward divorce, so I refused to go.

For the next year that set us on a path of a slow, downward spiral in our marriage. We would erupt into fights over seemingly nothing. She was hurt, I was hurt. I suppose what I did was worse -- the emotion affair I had really had me struggling with whether to end our marriage and go with the other woman, and I even talked with my wife about that, and I know that hurt. But I never decided or told her I was going to get a divorce. Certainly what I did was more recent in time. But I also felt so hurt, looking back questioning everything. I never like that "friend" of hers, as he always seemed to be competing with me --- he even got up to give a little toast at our wedding. So that bothered me. And even the idea of a random, physical, one-time kind of affair with some guy I never met (the other one) felt so hard to deal with --- I think sexual jealousy is hardwired into men for biological reasons (unlike a woman, for most of evolutionary history a man could never be sure that "his kid" was his, so a healthy dose of jealousy was probably an positive trait for a male from an evolutionary standpoint). And yes, I even tested my children to convince myself they were mine -- that's how distrustful I became.

Cut to 6 months ago, about a year since I had last communicated with the other woman; she texted me asking for some life advice and I responded, even though I had told my wife I would not communicate with her anymore. I told my wife about it that same day. But that's when she snapped. She changed, and has never been the same since. She said she was "done." She didn't want me to touch her. sWe started fighting again. It was like a switch was flipped and she was disgusted with me; it didn't help that she started following the other woman on social media and just wouldn't let it go.

After a couple months, she said she wanted a divorce. I did all the stupid things, mostly out of guilt because I knew the marriage collapse was triggered by my affair, and that the final straw was my responding to the other woman after a year without contact. But because I had genuinely gotten over that affair, and genuinely wanted to repair our marriage and make a fresh start, and genuinely believed that we could, I was desperate to try to hold onto our marriage at that point. I felt like we were falling apart for the stupidest reason, after all the serious things we'd been through and managed to survive -- one text conversation that I honestly and voluntarily told my wife about was the straw that broke the camel's back. I cried, begged, pleaded, etc. Basically all the mistakes you could make. It just pushed her farther away. I cancelled the joint credit cards -- ostensibly because that's actually pretty common advice when you're told your spouse is leaving you (protect your finances etc.) but deep down I was trying to make her see all the "good" things that came with being married to me (in this case, my financial support). That just made her more angry with me.

I asked her to go to counseling with me, and she agreed -- like she was doing me a favor, though. We went to 5 or 6 sessions. But it became clear, and she explicitly said in the counseling sessions in response to the counselor's questions, that she wasn't really interested in trying to repair the marriage. She had the "I'm done" attitude even at counseling, and it became a weekly session for her to talk to the counselor about all the bad things about me --- like she was just trying to firm up her resolve and argue her case to "convince" the counselor that I was a bad husband and she was right to leave. Although I conducted myself very calmly, I got tired of it (especially the added expense to sit there and listen to this) and we just agreed to end it. I said I'd be willing to go to counseling if we both want to try to repair the marriage, but if she didn't want to try there was no point and she wasn't doing me any favors by going. That was about 3 months ago and we haven't been back since.

Eventually, we had another conversation about divorce. She proposed her getting the house and me getting the retirement accounts, and custody of the kids, but I said no, I don't want this, but if you want to do it I am going to ask for 50/50 split, and 50/50 custody. I was calm, but took the "I don't want this, so if you want it, you'll have to do it yourself" approach. Probably only because she realized that she wouldn't get to keep the same lifestyle in this nice house in this nice neighborhood, she hasn't filed for divorce yet. But she still keeps me at arms length. I moved into the spare bedroom because we'd even start fighting if I put my arm around her in my sleep at night.

And that's where we've been for about the past 6 months, emotionally separated, sleeping in separate bedrooms (about 4 months); zero intimacy; zero conversation that doesn't involve the kids; civil (mostly, but much better than when we were fighting over the past 2 years); we co-parent, still eat meals together, take the kids to church together, go to kids activities together. But there is zero "relationship" between us right now. All the while our children know things are bad but they are hoping that mom and dad stay together.

I get the "let go" thing. I'm struggling with the "get a life" stuff. I want to have a life, but right now neither one of us has much of a life. She's home with the kids all day (she started a little side business from home that also keeps her busy and keeps her focus) but after they go to bed she goes into her room and shuts the door. I am away at work all day, and spend my nights in "my" room working, or watching movies, or reading. We have no life together outside of when the kids are awake. I want to have a life, though. I want to have a life with her, but I know that it would just push her away if I tried any more. I want to have a life, but I know whenever I'm out she probably thinks I'm off with another woman or doing something else wrong, and understandably she doesn't trust me at all. For example, some nights I stay at my work an hour or two late, there's a gym in the building that's free, and I work out. I will text her to tell her but once in a while she'll make a snide comment like "Yeah I figure you were going out after work" or some comment like that when I get home. I've just calmly responded that no, I'm at the gym, etc. I've just really been sidestepping conversation with her out of a desire to avoid argument because the kids have already heard too much of it.

If there's a shred of a chance that we can save our marriage, I want to, but I don't know whether "getting a life" is going to hurt or help. For sure, doing what we are doing now is extremely lonely and emotionally draining for me. I am willing to do what it takes to rebuild trust, but is that even what I'm doing if I just stay home for the sake of staying home, in a separate room, the two of us not talking, alone and lonely under the same roof? On the one hand, it seems clingy to do that, on the other hand, she seems to suspect I'm off doing something bad whenever I'm out on my own. All she would need to do is tell me that she wants our marriage to work out, she just can't deal with it right now, and doesn't trust me. That's all she'd need to say and I'd happily stay home, give her whatever space she needs, occupy myself at home, and let her slowly rebuild trust again. But I've gotten zero signs from her that she wants to make the marriage work, and the last time we talked about it (months ago), it was that she was "done" etc.

I don't know how to respond to social situations with her. I'm frankly depressed and tired of pretending we are a couple when it doesn't feel like we are. Just now, she's out at the grocery store while I'm home with the kids, and she texted me that some of our friends invited us over for dinner. It was sort of an informative statement, but implied as a question (i.e., do you want to go?). I want to go as a couple, but I'm mentally and emotionally exhausted from pretending to be a couple. Also, is this cake-eating? She gets to stay in our house, pretend she's still married, fit in socially with the married friends etc., but really have nothing to do with me? Or is this a step toward rebuilding our relationship? I don't know anymore. She just came home, she mentioned "did you get my message?"

Me: "About dinner? Yes"

Her: "What should I say?"

Me: "I don't know, what do you think?"

Her: "Anything is fine with me"

Me: "Anything is fine with me too"

Silence. Conversation stops, we go about our business separately.

I don't want to spend the next 10-15 years like this, and I'm sure she doesn't either. That means she's either decided to stay married, even if she can't actively try or even admit it to me, and there's a chance that we are slowly rebuilding; or she's still in the same frame of mind as before, and is just planning her exit. How am I supposed to react when I don't even know where we stand? I'm frankly afraid of starting another argument or screwing things up worse by asking to "talk about us" with her anymore, and that's also something I'm not supposed to do, if I understand the DB-theory correctly when dealing with a walk-away spouse.

So that's where I'm at. I'm sorry my story is so long, thank you to anyone who took the time to read it. I'm just really at my wits confused about the best steps I can take to try to save our marriage.

I am posting in Cadet's Welcome posting. Read all of the homework as you just might find some "pearls of wisdom" to help you along the way.

Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

Me-65, D33,S32

Hi Rushton,

Welcome. Sounds like you have been lurking here for a while. Glad you posted. I hope you stick around. We could use your POV.

You have some obstacles to over come. I think you are in a better place to save the marriage than most. I say this because there are no active affairs going on and you are still in the house and no paper work happening.

Lets start with this:

Quote

she texted me that some of our friends invited us over for dinner. It was sort of an informative statement, but implied as a question (i.e., do you want to go?). I want to go as a couple,

Me: "About dinner? Yes"

Her: "What should I say?"

Me: "I don't know, what do you think?"

Her: "Anything is fine with me"

Me: "Anything is fine with me too"

Silence. Conversation stops, we go about our business separately.

I learned that the man needs to be decisive. This is attractive. The woman does not want to make all the decisions. She wants her man to make decisions.

W:"H, friends invited us over for dinner."
H:"Tell them we would love to join them."

Now, I would say.
"W,I thought about dinner with friends. Tell them we would love to go."

As far as busting the divorce, I believe all the tools should work for you. You have to regain trust. You have to deal with all your issues. change your behavior in positive ways. Interact with her in ways that get you out of "friend zone", ways that she will find attractive.

I always advise learning as much as you can about attraction and seduction. Know the difference.

One of the first things to do is STOP ARGUING. From this point forward, you listen and validate. It is her story. Validate her feelings. In your case, you need to use phases like this:

"I am sorry I hurt you. I wish I could change the past"
"I am so sorry I hurt you. I can't change the past"

I was inhaling 2-3 books a week during my sitch. Get to the book store and browse for forgiveness books, healing from infidelity...whatever subjects you would would like to improve in.

Thanks for your reply, Ready2Change.

I think I understand the point you're making about being decisive. For 20 years, I have been "the decider" in our marriage.

But I don't know if I've adequately conveyed the degree to which she is "shut off" to me emotionally. Of late, during our recent breakdown arguments, she bristled about me being "controlling," so I'm not sure if being my usual decisive self would help.

Also, to be honest, I didn't want to go and pretend. It's emotionally draining for me.

It's been incredibly difficult for me, emotionally, just getting through each day and each week, concentrating on my job while in this complete limbo.

I have no idea from one day to the next whether she is thinking to stay like this for the rest of our time together (and how long that will be -- another week? until the end of the school year? until her little side business takes off well enough or the youngest is in school and she finds a full time job and can figure out how to keep the upper-middle class lifestyle to which she's become accustomed? until she finds another man that can give her that?).

The last time I told her I loved her, about 6 weeks ago, was before I left for a business trip. While I was packing, she came into my room to ask what time my flight was the next day. I tried to hug her and she held me at arms length. I forget exactly what I said, but it was something about I miss her, or wanting to be with her, and she just said something like "I don't think so" ... I couldn't sleep that night and went into "her" room (our joint bedroom) and lay down next to her and put my arm around her. She just pulled away and said to give her space. I texted her "I love you" early in the morning when I left, and didn't receive any response.

Yes, yes -- I've since read the book and many posts here, and I know that was counterproductive. I was still chasing her, still trying to pull her, maybe only pushing her further away. But it hurt. Even in the worst of my affair and confusion, I never stopped loving her and never, except for short term angry arguments, stopped telling her that. She says she just doesn't believe me anymore, and I don't have the urge to say it anymore anyway.

But back to dinner tonight; we didn't go. I didn't want to go and pretend to be a happily married couple. All I need from her is a sign -- any sign, that she wants us to work out, that she wants our marriage to get better, and I'll do all the pretending I need. But it just feels to me that she's settled into a comfy little routine where we pretend we're married externally, she gets to live where she wants to live, she doesn't look like "the bad one" to the kids, but she otherwise wants nothing to do with me. She even seems to twist the knife unnecessarily at times, giving me perfunctory little "thank you" responses when I do something, like I'm the help (I can tell the difference between a sincere thank you, and a "thank you" like you'd say to someone you barely know who just did something nice for you, I get the latter).

If it weren't for the legal repercussions related to custody of the kids, I would have left the house already because the "in-house separation" stuff is too emotionally painful, and maybe that would be enough to let her miss me. But I can't do that for practical reasons. And she certainly won't leave. So if either one of us files for divorce, it will be under the conditions we're in now, living together while we sort it out.

Anyway, thanks for listening. It's been very lonely these past few months, as I try to "stay home" as much as possible to help her trust me (although she still doesn't trust me even the minimal times I work late or go to the gym after work) and so I basically have had no social life and feel stuck in limbo and alone.

keep trying everyday until you've set on not trying anymore.

I will share with you a quote I've read here somewhere:

"Today is not that day that I quit

Maybe I will quit tomorrow, yet I will wait to see what tomorrow brings,

Then repeat that tomorrow"

Sorry I forget who's quote it is.

I think you really goofed contacting the OW again. Why wouldn't she be blocked? I hope you've done that now. And delete her # too.

You need to show consistency if you want to turn this around but you'll need patience for that to happen.

I agree with R2C on decisiveness. Your indecision is due to you wanting your W to solidify your relationship. Not gonna happen. "Be the change you wish to see".

Learn the basics around here, set out a plan, and get consistent.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

I think you really goofed contacting the OW again. Why wouldn't she be blocked? I hope you've done that now. And delete her # too.

Yeah, I was wrong to respond. Oddly enough, I had deleted her contact from my phone when we ended it, and at least on my iOS phone, you can't "block" a number that isn't in your call/message history UNLESS that number is also in your contact list. So, since I had cleared my phone log and message cache and didn't have anything to block, I just counted on her not contacting me as agree. That worked for almost a year, until it didn't.

In my defense, she was in touch with her OM (at least the one) for YEARS after their encounter, without me micromanaging her communications or crucifying her for it. The double standard does make me bristle so I try to not even think about it.

I appreciate the comments, but the message of DBing, and some of the points made here, does seem inconsistent.

She's said she's "done" with our marriage; she doesn't want to do anything social with me whenever I've asked (and she's gotten annoyed when I tried); she doesn't have any interest in talking to me at home unless it's about the kids; she doesn't want me touching her.

I don't want her to "solidify" my relationship --- I'm waiting for a shred of evidence that she has any interest in our relationship before I do any more counterproductive pulling/trying/deciding.

I don't get it. Aren't I supposed to be "letting her go" and GAL-ing and all the other things that were described in the book and in these posts?

She wasn't asking me to go out on a date with her or anything --- she was just relaying an invitation from friends, and asking me what I wanted to do, as if she would be doing me a favor by going. The last time I asked her to go out to see a movie or grab a bite, she got annoyed at me "trying" just like you'd expect from the DB theory here.

Can't you block a number through our carrier? Change your number? There's got to be a way to show a sincere effort.

Quote

In my defense, she was in touch with her OM (at least the one) for YEARS after their encounter, without me micromanaging her communications or crucifying her for it. The double standard does make me bristle so I try to not even think about it.

Not to be argumentative, but her contacting her OM is only something horrible that she did. Everyone has to keep their side of the street clean. You understand the double standard though as I saw you posted how much it bothered you when you found out about her affairs.

Quote

I appreciate the comments, but the message of DBing, and some of the points made here, does seem inconsistent.

What parts?

Quote

I don't want her to "solidify" my relationship --- I'm waiting for a shred of evidence that she has any interest in our relationship before I do any more counterproductive pulling/trying/deciding.

That's what I meant by solidify. You waiting for her to show you something in order to decide where to go. You want her to say something like "why don't we go to the Smith's house together?" You want a baby step, some progress, right? Maybe she's doing that too. So when she asks about going to the Smith's just respond.

This is why detaching is encouraged, because it should be a relatively simple response, but our emotions cloud our minds. It's totally understandable too, but in order to grow and hopefully save your marriage you need to consider that this is a way to improve things. I think she is confused. She's sure about not wanting to have long or serious discussions with you, she's serious about not wanting your physical touch. But if she was serious about leaving you'd have papers and she wouldn't be discussing going to friend's with you. So "letting her go" in your case, at this time, means to detach. You should be GAL'ing.

Quote

She wasn't asking me to go out on a date with her or anything --- she was just relaying an invitation from friends, and asking me what I wanted to do, as if she would be doing me a favor by going. The last time I asked her to go out to see a movie or grab a bite, she got annoyed at me "trying" just like you'd expect from the DB theory here.

I feel your pain. In her mind, she doesn't want to touch or talk to you, right? OK, I can see why she might feel that way, given all that y'all have been through. You should try to understand it to. She stuck around for a while, then you contacted the OW again and she is under the impression that this is how it is going to be with you. So her going to friend's house and showing face with you does say something to her, you, and other people. It says "we are still a couple".

Your story is familiar. We have people here who are trying to save their marriages, who are hurting badly, and some have gone and jumped in bed with a stranger too. It's not right, but it does happen.

Originally Posted by Rushton

You either forgive her for her past behavior or you don't. Which one do you think will give you a better chance of turning things around?

Quote

She wasn't asking me to go out on a date with her or anything --- she was just relaying an invitation from friends, and asking me what I wanted to do, as if she would be doing me a favor by going.

Do you want to go or do you not want to go. Make a decision and do that. If W wants to go she goes. If not, she doesn't.

Keep it simple.

Quote

The last time I asked her to go out to see a movie or grab a bite, she got annoyed at me "trying" just like you'd expect from the DB theory here.

We advise not to initiate. We advise to be open to invites, but not to accept all.

I always tell posters to change their measuring stick. Do not use her emotional response as a measuring stick.

Measure this way: Did I do the right thing? Did I change my behavior in a positive way. Did I handle that sitch better. Did I control my anger?

This is a big onion to peel. You can't change her. You can only change the way you interact.

Ultimately it will take two people to save the relationship. Both people need time and space and make significant changes to themselves. You can focus on your personal growth or you can stay the same. Again, which do you think has better odds of turning things around?

I appreciate the responses, everyone. And, although I don't mind receiving argumentative posts (I really don't mind) I wasn't intentionally trying to be argumentative. I'm just really confused.

To be clear, the number of the OW is now blocked. I was just explaining why I hadn't blocked it before -- I wasn't expecting to hear from her nearly a year after we'd ended things. And I immediately told my wife about it -- I wasn't trying to hide it.

Do I forgive my wife for her infidelity and related mistakes? Yes, I do. I want to forget about it and move past it and work on our marriage. But like any other human endeavor, my forgiveness is imperfect. When I'm repeatedly subjected to insults or accusations from her about my infidelity and mistakes over and over and over again, I feel myself get angry and upset about what feels like unfair criticism.

Even the issue of my responding to the OW fits the above double-standard. I know for a fact that she's been in touch with one of the OM at least up until she told me about the infidelity. So that means that, assuming the facts she told me are true (it was one time thing, etc.), she was in touch with him for years after that. I wasn't aware or involved; I didn't get to police her communications; she got to let things play out over years and assuming (as she said) that she tried to put more distance between her and the OM, she got to do so at her pace, in private. I respond to the OW's text one time and immediately tell my wife about it and suddenly that's it -- I'm the most terrible person on Earth and she's "done" with me etc.

I'm just griping, sorry.

I still don't get the whole "let her go" and GAL thing and how to balance that with the "stay home and show her you can be trusted thing."

As I said, my wife makes accusatory comments even when I do something mundane like workout for 90 minutes at the gym after work on a Wednesday night. Attempts to delve into a serious conversation about trust always end in bitter arguments, so I try not to respond, or just respond minimally (e.g. "No, I was at the gym, like I said")

Should I keep growing my own life (GAL?) despite her mistrust or should l just sit in my room while she sits in her room, so she knows I'm not out there doing something bad? I'm so confused. I've already done all the begging, pleading, apologizing etc. (all the wrong things, according to DB) -- I'm not sure that me just hanging around the house is going to make her want me again. It just seems like she's "cake-eating" as I've seen the phase used around here --- she gets all the benefits of a provider husband and father, but she can just go into her room and close the door after the kids are in bed and forget about me. She's been like this for 6 months, this isn't some sudden thing that I'm just freaking out about.

What I've been doing (basically being home every night/weekend and just retreating to "my" room while she retreats to "her" room every night) doesn't feel like it's working to change anything --- we are still exactly where we were 3 months ago. We fight less, because we don't talk one-on-one at all. It's gotten to the point where I'm actually afraid to even start a conversation with her because I feel it will only lead to fighting --- it's like she looks for any opportunity to argue with me, like she's carrying this all around and just looking for any opportunity to vent it on me.

Well, even typing this out makes me feel a little better, and hearing your reactions and thoughts about all this is really helpful. Thanks for listening.

Oh -- one more thing. She got mad the last time I tried to give her something (flowers, another mistake per DB!) back like 3 months ago. Christmas is upon us and I haven't gotten her anything. I am afraid of it causing an argument, and I have no idea what to do. Didn't I read "no gifts" when you're in this position? Is there something that's less "gifty" that I can still give without upsetting her and making her think I'm trying to pull her back? I've never felt such dread toward Christmas before . . .

I understand your confusion. I've been there.

Quote

Even the issue of my responding to the OW fits the above double-standard. I know for a fact that she's been in touch with one of the OM at least up until she told me about the infidelity. So that means that, assuming the facts she told me are true (it was one time thing, etc.), she was in touch with him for years after that. I wasn't aware or involved; I didn't get to police her communications; she got to let things play out over years and assuming (as she said) that she tried to put more distance between her and the OM, she got to do so at her pace, in private. I respond to the OW's text one time and immediately tell my wife about it and suddenly that's it -- I'm the most terrible person on Earth and she's "done" with me etc.

That's some BS.

I don't think you need to stay home necessarily, it's definitely not going to change her mind. I think you doing your GAL is the way you improve your mental state and your whole self as well as draw her back to you and make her miss you.

I think the changes you need to show her need to be genuine, not you peacocking around like you changed overnight. That's why you detach, so that you don't let every little thing get to you.

I think you need to address your fears of talking to her. Treat her like clerk at the grocery store, be brief, certainly don't be fearful. She will try to start fights, which is why I encourage you to learn 2 or 3 validating phrases and learn about validation.

I would probably not get her anything, she has rejected you. Show her you heard her and that you understand you are not her romantic partner.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

I think you need to address your fears of talking to her. Treat her like clerk at the grocery store, be brief, certainly don't be fearful. She will try to start fights, which is why I encourage you to learn 2 or 3 validating phrases and learn about validation.

Mostly I'm just trying to spare the kids more exposure to us arguing. Also, I am at the point where I don't have anything more to say to her about "us" --- she's said repeatedly that she's "done," she's said repeatedly that she wants a divorce; the conversation about divorce ended pretty much on a financial disagreement (where she maybe started realizing that she wouldn't have such a nice life post-divorce) and we haven't had a serious talk since. So, I know where she stands and I we just end up arguing if I try to say anything to her, so I'm avoiding it to spare the kids.

Quote

I would probably not get her anything, she has rejected you. Show her you heard her and that you understand you are not her romantic partner.

Yeah, that confirms what I'm thinking. On the one hand, I still love her, and she's the mother of my children, and we're all together and will be giving gifts at Christmas. But on the other hand, as you've said, she's consistently rejected me. I like the way you put it -- show her that I've heard her.

It's Christmas night and I just felt like posting an update. Sometimes just writing things out helps me feel better.

From all outward appearances, we just had a "nice" family Christmas. My wife cooked a nice dinner on Christmas Eve, we all spent time together as a family (me, wife, and our young kids); wife and I got the kids to bed and then worked together to wrap the Christmas gifts for a couple hours. We were polite, like "friends with kids" or something, I don't know. Inside I was a wreck of emotions, however.

Today we woke from our separate bedrooms when the kids got up early and we all went downstairs to open presents from Santa. She cooked a nice Christmas breakfast. We went to church together and shook hands at "peace" time, as is (now) usual, instead of kissing. We came home, the kids opened more gifts from one another etc. (neither my wife nor I got each other any gifts, for the first time since we were together; we didn't speak about it, it just seemed to be understood). She cooked a nice Christmas dinner. We watched a Christmas film together as a family; she even let herself sit next to me (although still at a good distance) on the sofa while we watched the film; she even brought me a drink of her own initiative when she got up to get one for herself. She was polite and her usual good mother self to our kids.

I did my best to help out around the kitchen, mostly by cleaning up, as usual.

But as is usual now, after the kids were in bed, there was no further interaction between her and I. She made an excuse (maybe true, maybe not) about needing to be upstairs because the youngest (who still sleeps in "her" room) was still awake. And our Christmas ended.

I messed up a couple of times: on Christmas Eve after the gifts were wrapped and we were going to our separate bedrooms, I tried to give her a hug; she let me hug her but kept it "standoffish" like she was sort of tensed up at my touch. Then tonight, when she said goodnight and turned to go, I said "Merry Christmas" and she responded with the same, then I said "I love you" as she turned and walked away without saying anything else.

I sort of regret those mistakes, but part of me doesn't. Most of yesterday and today, I had a strong feeling of sadness and melancholy, feeling that this would be our last Christmas as a married couple, and our last Christmas living together, after 21 Christmases together. After the mistakes I've made, I don't regret telling her that I love her. I don't regret trying to hold her once again.

I have been thinking more and more about agreeing to her suggested terms of divorce from a few months ago -- her getting the house and me getting the retirement accounts -- even if it's not strictly "fair" it's close enough, maybe, at least financially. I'm not sure she could even make that work financially, but if she wants to try, that's up to her.

I just don't think I can do this in-house separation much longer, emotionally. There is no "me" time with children as young as ours. We both pretty much spend all of our time either in our work pursuits (me with a full time job, her with a budding new home-business) or doing stuff with/for the kids. I can't really GAL under these circumstances --- I'd be a better father to my kids with the status quo, but I'm on an emotional roller coaster inside.

I can't see either one of us living like this for the next 10 or 15 years. So I think we must be headed toward a divorce or reconciliation.

But I don't see this in-house separation as helping us move toward reconciliation at all --- it seems to be a very comfortable limbo for her, as she maybe sorts out her options, and I'm just always "there" as the default fallback -- the man around the house to protect her, fix things, provide for her, politely chat at meals, etc., but not one to whom she has to provide any intimacy or emotional connection. I don't think she will ever really "choose" to work on our marriage under these circumstances. I think the in-house separation will almost certainly lead to a slow-burn toward a "good" divorce --- probably better for both of us financially if we stick it out like this for a while, and any number of additional months that we're together I suppose is a good thing for the kids. But with very little chance of a successful reconciliation or long-term marriage.

I don't really want to initiate divorce proceedings myself, because I love her and don't want to divorce.

Agreeing to her divorce proposal from a few months ago, and communicating to her that I'm OK with it if she still wants to initiate the proceedings, seems like a middle ground step to me. I think it would show my acceptance of her decision, and my willingness to end our marriage and go our separate ways. Whether or not she initiates a divorce after that would be up to her.

Our first Christmas together, 21 years ago, we (I, really) saved a piece of our first Christmas tree and made it into an ornament that we've hung on our tree ever since, as a memory of our first Christmas together. We decorate the tree this year and I didn't see how it made its way from the box to the tree, but it was hanging on our tree this Christmas. I believe that one of the kids, who all know what it represents, hung it there. I will save a piece of the tree from this year with the understanding that it very well may be a token of our last Christmas together. When the time comes, I will break that First Christmas Tree piece into two halves and give one to her, to do whatever she wants with, and I will keep one in memory of what we had. I'll give her a piece of the tree from our last Christmas together as well. Perhaps I will fashion them together into an ornament with photos of our beautiful children, as a reminder of how blessed we were to share those years and the creation of those lives.

###

I'll end this post with a reflection on the theme of Job (the Biblical Job) in Terrence Malick's film "The Tree of Life" which has been on my mind lately. If you haven't seen the film, I highly recommend it.

"The very moment everything was taken away from Job, he knew it was the Lord who�d taken it away. He turned from the passing shows of time. He sought that which is eternal. Does he alone see God�s hand who sees that He gives? Or does not also the one see God�s hand who sees that He takes away? Or does he alone see God who sees God turn His face towards him? Does not also he see God who sees God turn his back?"

(Father Haynes, The Tree of Life)

"But Job! The moment the Lord took everything away, he did not first say, �The Lord took away,� but first of all he said, �The Lord gave.� ... Job�s soul was not squeezed into silent subjection to the sorrow ... his heart first expanded in thankfulness, that the first thing the loss of everything did was to make him thankful to the Lord that he had given him all the blessings that he now took away from him. . . . [H]is thankfulness was . . . honest, just as honest as the idea of God�s goodness that was now so vivid in his soul. Now he recalled everything the Lord had given, some particular thing with perhaps even more thankfulness than when he had received it; it has not become less beautiful because it had been taken away, nor more beautiful, but was just as beautiful as before, beautiful because the Lord had given it, and what might seem more beautiful to him now was not the gift but God�s goodness."

###

Or, as Cormac Mccarthy, through one of his characters put it, "People complain about the bad things that happen to them that they don't deserve. But they seldom mention the good; about what they've done to deserve those things. I don't recall that I ever gave the good Lord all that much cause to smile on me; but he did."

Hi Rushton, I just wanted to say I�m so sorry for the pain you�re experiencing right now. Your post brought me to tears. My H didn�t come to my family Christmas celebration today and it was painful for me and our kids. Its so painful emotionally inside going through this that I don�t know how to get through some moments. I�m hoping you can find some peace in you�re situation.

Originally Posted by Rushton

Hi Rushton,

I'm going through the same thing. Three months post in-house separation. Trying to make it work for the kids and keep the peace.

You must learn to detach and do a 180. It's very difficult. You've been married a few years more than me. I asked W if she wanted a Christmas present and she said yes and got me one too.

We were invited around a friend's house for dinner.

You can make the in-house separation last as long as you can hold on and hope for R but to do this you need to detach all the way and this won't happen overnight.

Originally Posted by Drh2001

You can make the in-house separation last as long as you can hold on and hope for R but to do this you need to detach all the way and this won't happen overnight.

I don't know. I don't know if in-house separation (at least in my case) is helpful for the "hold on and hope" thing, or whether it's doing more harm than good.

I do know that I feel it's impossible for me to "detach" while living in the same home with my wife and our young children -- there is no "me" time to work on myself or GAL outside of the family. I guess she gets a bit of "her" time while I'm at work, but I don't really have any. When I'm home, it would feel like a really jerk thing to do to just go out while she's home with the kids.

I suspect she is busy planning her exit strategy while I'm away at the office all day during the week.

Hi Rushton,

Thank you for your support, and recognition that we are pretty much feeling the same. Reading your story, no matter how we got to this stage, fundamentally we have similar starting points in our journey. I think this is the process we have to go through, not be afraid to feel the things we do because they are real and driven as a result of introspection.

We are truly seeing things, what matters most because we have been given the time to do so. I keep telling myself that, whilst i'd rather we weren't in this situation that has forced a period of introspection, it has most certainly been needed.

This is a chance to be the best version of ourselves, to hit the reset button. It has upon reflection taught me what is and isn't important. Lives with kids in tow are 100mph, dealing with the day to day, the mundane, the highs and lows, yet now i realise i didn't fully appreciate it all, and let a lot of the good things slide.

After a tough day personally on Christmas day, we spent yesterday together with friends and their kids. It was a great day, and we all relaxed and it was interesting for me that it felt like pre BD days. We had fun.
I hope my W will see it the same way, to see that we are good together and our family thrives as a result. Who knows, i'm just taking things at face value, presenting myself as the best version of me at this point in time (i've a long way to go) and see where it takes me.

Stay strong, brother - We have got this. We can do it. Keep posting, i will be following your story.

Chaz

I was in the same situation.

I was mostly to blame.

My W was completely done. Even started looking to date other men.

She continually reminded me she was done no matter what.

We were in house separated in an awful limbo.

Here we are 2 years later reconciled.

Hi Rush,

I have a hard time keeping track of everyone's details. Skimmed your thread.

Spending time with your kids is GAL. It is still important for you to do your thing as well.

Do not move out of the house. She wants out, she moves out. Stand firm on this.

If you are not currently in the MBR, you should be.

This is one big test of your manhood. It is important to pass the test. Stand on your core values. Your job as the man is to protect your family. Right now, you are protecting the family from your wife's poor decisions. Lead your family though this.

Hi All,

It's been almost one-year since I posted this thread, and the details are there for anyone who wants to read them. I was in a very sad and lonely place last year, and I wanted to post this update in the hopes that it might help anyone experiencing something like that right now.

My wife and I have reconciled. Not long after my Christmas 2019 posts, I finally threw in the towel emotionally and turned the corner accepting that my wife wanted a divorce. It was devastating to me -- as I'm sure it is for anyone who loves their spouse and wants to hold their marriage together as their spouse insists on divorce -- especially so in my case since I felt largely responsible for the destruction of our marriage. I was carrying extreme sadness, fear of the future for me and my children, and heavy guilt for my mistakes.

I felt I was at the end of my rope. Up until that point, only my brother knew anything was going wrong. But I reached out to a few other close friends to talk to them when I had some time alone. For me, it was the first steps toward accepting what I had been trying to prevent for the past 7 months.

We were busy with lots of kids' activities during the holiday week, but the day before New Year's Eve, I initiated a discussion with my wife about the relationship. I told her that I couldn't take living like this anymore. I told her that I loved her but that if she did not want to reconcile, we should move forward with a divorce. I apologized again for what I had done wrong. I shared with her my perspective of trying to focus on being thankful for the time that we had been given together, for our healthy and beautiful children, and for what we had shared that had brought them into the world. She was emotional, but held firm in not wanting to reconcile; we hugged a little, we cried a little, but things remained the same -- she did not want to reconcile and wanted to move ahead with a divorce.

I did tell her that day that I would soon be moving out of the spare bedroom and back into the master bedroom in the next couple of days. I said that the reason was that after we divorced, who knew what our living situation would be, but that our oldest boy had never had his own room and always wanted one, and that for whatever time we remained in the house, I was going to let him have that room as his own.

Then I probably deviated from the DB philosophy and did some things that are not advised, and probably shouldn't be advised in most cases, but I'll relay them here anyway.

Later that day same day, I drove to my parents' house a couple hours away to talk with them. They had no idea anything was wrong, and they were stunned and heartbroken to hear the news. I confessed to them the mistakes that I had made, my part in the breakup of our marriage. They were kind, because they saw how defeated and devastated I was at that point, but of course, they knew I had made serious mistakes. My parents love my wife, probably as much as they love me, and they knew I had hurt her badly. They asked me to ask my wife if it was OK for them to reach out to her. My parents told me about the faith-based "Retrouvaille" program (https://www.helpourmarriage.org) and asked me to consider giving it a try. I was willing, of course, but I told them that I didn't think my wife would be interested. But I agreed to ask her about it.

I returned home and spent New Year's Eve with the family. At some point on New Year's Day I told my wife about Retrouvaille, and asked her if she'd be willing to consider it. She was not. She said there was no point in trying anymore.

A couple days later, I moved back into the master bedroom, and back into our marital bed; she began sleeping on the spare twin bed was have in the master bedroom. So we were sleeping in the same room, but not in the same bed.

I returned to work after the holidays. The next couple of weeks are a blur. I know that my parents reached out to her via email, and maybe also via phone, and I don't know all that was said, but I know they were sympathetic to her and tried to show her that she was loved and that they understood where she was coming from, having been hurt by me so badly. I had some conversations about it with my mom and dad during the first and second week of January, as they were communicating with her. I'm pretty sure that during that two-week period, I asked my wife once or twice more if she would be willing to try Retrouvaille, and her answer was always the same -- no; she saw no point in trying to reconcile.

Although my parents were asking me to be more flexible, I could not take living like this anymore -- emotionally it was hurting too much. Moreover, I felt that by allowing her to stay in the marriage, and reap all the comforts of what it means to be provided for by a husband, and to not have to face the real world on her own, without any effort at reconciling, and repeatedly rejecting even the idea of reconciling, was counterproductive to any hope of reconcilliation. I knew it was a last-ditch move, but I reached a point where I truly felt that the best move -- the only move, really -- that I had left to make was to actively move ahead with the divorce. Most of me had given up hope, only a very small part of me clung onto the hope that maybe actually being faced with the stark reality of how her life would be post-divorce would cause her to reconsider her refusal to try to reconcile.

Since my wife seemed to have (to me) unrealistic expectations about how the marital assets would be divided up, and what standard of living she'd have post-divorce, I recommended that she have a frank discussion with her divorce lawyer (I knew she had met with one) about realistic and reasonable expectations, and then asked that we sit down to discuss the divorce in a week, the following weekend, to try to reach agreement on the broad outlines of the terms of our divorce. I scheduled an appointment with my own divorce attorney for Monday morning following that planned weekend discussion.

When that weekend arrived, we had an early morning talk. It was super tense to start. I beleived we were about the begin the actual work of negotiating the terms of our divorce. We sat down, and I asked her if she had spoken with her divorce lawyer, and she said yes she had. And then, when I started to talk about how to split up assets in the divorce, she cut me off and said that she was willing to try to reconcile with me.

I was stunned. It was only when I had basically lost all hope, and reluctantly brought myself right to the point where I was going to file for divorce on Monday, that this good news hit me. She told me some things that she wanted me to change; most of which were pretty reasonable, and to which I agreed. And from that moment on, we've been working to repair our marriage.

It turned out that some of the emails that my parents had sent her, confirming their love for her, their understanding of her feelings, and their thoughts about the importance of trying to work on our marriage resonated with her. They at least made her pause, raised some doubt about the feminst-mantras she had been telling herself for months, and ultimately, brought her to a point where she was inspired to change her mind.

We did end up attending a Retrouvaille weekend retreat a month later, and I think that really helped us get back on the right track. Even at the retreat, during introductions, she described herself as this being the "last chance" to fix things in our marriage, which to me seemed more extreme than I felt at the time. But in any case, we did have a positive experience that weekend, and our marriage has continued to improve ever since. It's not been without hiccups, and not without some arguments, but definite overall improvement month by month. Even during this crazy, unusual COVID time, when we were forced into close quarters with us and the kids all under 1 roof nonstop for months on end ...

There are no hard and fast rules. Talk to friends and family if you need to, as I did in my case. In my own personal view, I don't like the idea of a married couple trying to deal with all of this on their own, and keeping it all "private" ... that's unnatural, and it's not how we evolved as people or how our human societies evolved. Sometimes, we do need the wisdom and love and advice of family and friends. Our extended family, specifically my parents, did, in the end, help us reconcile. And I'm thankful for that.

I wanted to write this post-script to my thread for anyone who might stumble upon it and for anyone who might be reading these forums searching for any sign of hope that things can work out. Last year, around this time, when I felt completely alone in my grief and my sadness, I came here. Thank you to all who responded and offered words of comfort, advice, or even commiseration. I needed that. Remember that every relationship and every situation is different. But in the end, every relationship is between two people, people who are imperfect, whose thoughts and feelings can and do change. Nothing is permanent except God's love and plan for us. And I had to bring myself through the painful process of accepting the break-up of my marriage, accept it, and initiate the process of moving on, before things fell into place to begin a reconciliation. For anyone who is experiencing a difficult time this Christmas season, my heart and my thoughts go out to you. There is always hope.

Thank you for that Rushton. However, I have to disagree with you, I am not seeing a lot here that was anti-DBing! It seems you DB'd pretty darn well. The whole point of DBing is to get the LBS to move on without their WAS. SOMETIMES (as in both of our cases) it has the side-effect of making the WAS reconsider. That you had given up and were ready to move forward with the D is the EPITOME of DBing. We caution people not to use it as a ploy, because that usually backfires. But when you do really move on, accept the divorce and that your MR is over, and your actions are consistent with that, then it can make the WAS go "what the heck am I doing here."

Originally Posted by Rushton

There are no hard and fast rules. Talk to friends and family if you need to, as I did in my case. In my own personal view, I don't like the idea of a married couple trying to deal with all of this on their own, and keeping it all "private" ... that's unnatural, and it's not how we evolved as people or how our human societies evolved. Sometimes, we do need the wisdom and love and advice of family and friends. Our extended family, specifically my parents, did, in the end, help us reconcile. And I'm thankful for that.

You seem to think this is a huge part of DBing. It is not. Many DBers here let their friends and family in on what is going on and still DB very well. I advise against telling others, at least until you are ready to truly move on with D, because it can be difficult for a WAS to face all of the people that now know in order to reconcile. Your story and tale of reconciliation is very similar to mine, except NOBODY around us knew anything, and still do not to this day. But I knew in my situation, that once my friends and family knew about our problems, and knew that my W wasn't innocent in everything, that it would have been a bridge to far for her to come back at that point. So as you say, everyone's situation is different. No question about it. I too had hurt my W deeply. Over and over again. But she had gone about dealing with that all wrong by looking to other men, even just emotionally, to deal with it. If I had outed her to our congregation, my family, her family, and our friends, I do not think we'd be together today.

Overall, I love your story. The fact that your W saw Retrouville as a last chance is not surprising. She was flirting with D before you pushed D. When you pushed D it made her have to come to a decision: do I really want D or do I want to give this MR one last chance? She saw the latter as the better of the two paths, but still wasn't quite all in. One of the things my W said to me once we had fully reconciled (and had eluded to it during our sitch) was she never really knew what she wanted the whole time. One minute she thought she wanted A but then a few minutes later she wanted B. Your W was probably dealing with the same struggle.

Thanks for posting this! So many LBSs here get discouraged about the number of sitches that end in D. I've said in the past that many of the posters that come and go could have saved their MR but until they come back and post it we never know that. Thanks for sharing your story!

Rushton,

I just read through your sitch. Glad to hear you and your W avoided divorce, and thanks for coming back a year later to post a follow-up. It would be great if you could return periodically to keep us updated on any successes, difficulties and lessons learned as you two work on reconciling.

Just read your whole thread again. I'm happy for you. I even wrote up a long response to your original post b/c I thought it was new.

The biggest challenge will be to continue growing and working towards being the man you really want to be.

Thanks, all. I certainly will post any updates that I think would be insightful or helpful to others.

Hi Rushton,

If you would-- I'd be super interested to hear more about your thought processes around deciding to end your own affair, detangling yourself from the OW, etc. I know you came to this board as an LBS but we don't get many WHs around here and your perspective on that side would be really interesting.

Really happy for you and thanks for coming back to share!

Best,

May

Originally Posted by Rushton

I was stunned. It was only when I had basically lost all hope, and reluctantly brought myself right to the point where I was going to file for divorce on Monday, that this good news hit me.

I'm glad to hear a happy ending that involved staying married! Congratz.

Update: Still married, still doing well 3 years after the "near divorce experience" that we went through as described above in this thread. (I did not post around Christmas 2022 and Christmas 2023 as I had planned because I couldn't remember my login details!)

Now that I'm back on the boards I'll think about whether there's any useful insights I can share. Or I'd be happy to answer any questions if doing so can help others. But for now, just wanted to post an update that we are still together and doing well.

Hello Rushton

Thank you for popping in with that wonderful update. Very nice to see.

I’m glad you recalled your login credentials. Your insights would be welcome and appreciated.

Have a great day!

D

Rushton:

I didn't know your story until your thread was revived, but congratulations!

You handled this as well as anyone in your situation could.

I admit that it's still a mystery to me why some like your W have a sudden epiphany while others never do. Realizing that perhaps the person they fell in love with is still in there, even if they appeared hidden, and if given the chance, that person can re-emerge.

Originally Posted by Sunflyer

Yeah I don't know either. In terms of practical reasons, I do think that a big part of what slowed her down long enough to have had a change of heart was her getting cold feet about the financial situation---it's easier to let your anger guide you toward divorce if you hold onto the fantasy that your lifestyle will somehow magically remain the same.

And then, according to her, she did have what she interpreted as some sort of divine message. The details are a little fuzzy to me, as she mentioned it only once and did not dwell on it, but apparently the morning that we were going to have our big early morning discussion about the outlines of a divorce, something did happen that made her think that someone or something was trying to tell her to stay. Obviously, she must have still been genuinely struggling with her decision at that point, however, to have been open to such a message.

I think I read some of your story in your thread but I'll have to go back to read it and check. I may comment there.