#17 - Being the best H and father I can be!

Link to previous thread:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2864960#Post2864960

Job, you must have locked my old thread, I can't post a link to this one.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Job, you must have locked my old thread, I can't post a link to this one.

Its linked now

TY Cadet!

Thanks Cadet! I was just about to link Steve's new thread to his previous one when I saw you had done it.

Originally Posted by Maika

One of the things that I saw when you came on the board is that your W never really got to the end of the line of her fantasy and being a WW. Both times previously it was short circuited and there is potential for things to change when that happens. But as others have pointed out, you have done all the work since you got here and she barely has. I feel that she's gotta either go to the end of the line with her fantasy and see what's there, or get into IC and address her WW tendencies. There is a lack of depth in her life for herself and I fear that it may have to do with self-love, self-acceptance, and understanding her place as a woman in this world, not just a mother.

Went back and was rereading things from my turn of events late last summer. Found this little gem from Maika.

First an update: W still hasn't gotten into IC. Part of that has been financial. We still own the other house though that is close to being sold. However, things have been really good. She continues to provide full transparency. She now plays her games and sings on the app without a picture of herself up. After discussing things we both concluded that her picture was a big reason she was getting so much attention. I still have passwords for all of her apps and full access to her electronic devices. Though I haven't checked them. In fact, I haven't had the desire to snoop once since I found what I found last summer.

Now, as to what Maika posted to me a while back. Maika you made an outstanding point. In all three situations I short-circuited things before they played out. This last one was barely a blip on the radar when I sniffed it out and confronted. This obviously concerns me for the reasons that you state.

This time she has done a lot of work. She has improved in so many ways. She has really worked on her priorities and she now prioritizes a lot of things over her gaming and singing. The house looks so much better for it. She also is back into Bible study with her two best friends from church. Guys, I honestly believe, looking back in retrospect, that her having some very good friends at church was a big reason she didn't go further down the WW. Though my short-circuiting means we may never know!

But I continue to DB. Newcomers this is something I firmly believe in. That the minute you stop GAL...180ing....being healthily self-differentiated is the minute you start heading towards another BD. So those of you that are Ring and piecing, never stop DBing!!

Anyway, just wanted to post this. All I can do is continue to try to be the best Steve I can be!

What was the book on self-differentiation in marriage? Or is that the terms you should search for?

Google: self-differentiation in marriage

So she never got to find out. My money is on the idea that she's still wondering.

Originally Posted by spoused2

So she never got to find out. My money is on the idea that she's still wondering.

Yes..... That was my point. Thanks.

Also, your posting style doesn't fit the pattern of a newcomer. Have you been here before?

The need to get you both (or W) into IC is still there, dear friend. There�s not the urgency: the best scenario.

Don�t delay too much something that important.

Originally Posted by neffer

The need to get you both (or W) into IC is still there, dear friend. There�s not the urgency: the best scenario.

Don�t delay too much something that important.

Thanks man. Still on the plan. The house sale is very close to being finalized.

Hey everyone! Just happened to be watching some MWD videos, and came across one on youtube she did in March 2018. Where she discusses her intensive sessions she hosts for couples:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/PersonalIntensives.htm

I am considering discussing a trip to Boulder for one of this with my wife sometimes later this year. I figure why do traditional MC, when I can go right to the source of a lot of the great material that saved my marriage (so far).

This would not be in lieu of IC for my W.

Hey Steve,

Hope all is well. I certainly would be interested to learn about your experience if you get the opportunity to do an intensive session.

Onward and upward.

This is a wonderful idea and I hope that your wife is on board for the trip. If you do go, please come back and share your experience w/the forum.

Hey Steve....

My, you have come a long way huh ??

I do wonder though...

Are any of those thoughts coming from the "father figure" side of you ?

Or are those thoughts that you have heard from her ???

Old patterns friend....

Originally Posted by Mach1

Hey Steve....

My, you have come a long way huh ??

I do wonder though...

Are any of those thoughts coming from the "father figure" side of you ?

Or are those thoughts that you have heard from her ???

Old patterns friend....

Mach, I fight the father figure thing everyday. Very astute.

I was just curious...

What do you do to flip that switch between leading the marriage, and hearing her ?

Originally Posted by Mach1

I was just curious...

What do you do to flip that switch between leading the marriage, and hearing her ?

First I remember to listen to her. And then I will repeat back to her in my own words what she said. I do this especially if she is expressing feelings.

I then remember what I learned in IC: my way is A way, not THE way to do something.

But most of all I remind myself all day everyday how much I love her, which is immensely!

And when I feel the old man creeping back up, I remind myself of my love for her.

Mach, it isn't perfect. But it is many times better than it used to be.

Hey Steve,

Glad to hear things are going well. I don't think I saw if you updated how you (or you both) handled the 23rd-- interested to know if you don't mind sharing.

Also, I wanted to thank you for some really helpful posts on my sitch. You'd warned me that I should be prepared that my H was in a PA, not just an EA, and lo and behold you were totally right (also it had started a year earlier than he's admitted to previously). Because you were so clear about that being a possibility, I spent some time being prepared for that last BD, and I think I handled it much better than I would have otherwise. (Though by no means perfectly!!!)

Anyway, just wanted to pop in to say hi and thanks for your help!

may22, the 23rd was uneventful. I think at one point I thought, oh today is 2 year anniversary of BD. So completely different than last year. She doesn't even remember that BD was that date.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm sorry I was right about the PA. But we've seen it before on this forum.

Keep on moving forward! You've got this!

Bump for Mach1......please grade my paper!

Originally Posted by Steve85

Bump for Mach1......please grade my paper!

Pfft....You don't need me...

I was just making sure your head was on fairly straight....

I did however, have a dream last night, that you had an internet mail address that was your user name here, with a larger domain that started with a "g", or a "y" after it..

And I know there isn't anyway that could be true though...

Because if it were. then you could just say yes or no...and move along fairly un-noticed.

Anywhooo.....How do you notice the old man creepin up again ??

Mach1, thanks. ..

Usually it was, like yesterday.....I got home and the dishwasher is relatively empty, and there are dishes she's used sitting in the sink.I could feel the old man coming up as I started to think that it was ridiculous and that it started to upset me. Then I remembered......IT DOESN'T MATTER. It is no big deal! Take the 2 minute and rinse them and put them in the dishwasher out of love for her. Because I love her immensely.

She came home a few minutes later and said: "HON! I was going to take care of those dishes." I said: "Its ok, I can help out around here."

I have had very few slip up in the last two years, maybe twice when I didn't catch it before I started to behave in my old pattern. But then I caught it corrected it, and if necessary apologized for it.

Life is so much better today..............

Hi Steve85,

Just wanted to say "Hey!". I appreciated all your generosity in my thread, and glad you've stayed strong on the good work that's making your marriage succeed. Cheers, mate.

Originally Posted by CWarrior

Hi Steve85,

Just wanted to say "Hey!". I appreciated all your generosity in my thread, and glad you've stayed strong on the good work that's making your marriage succeed. Cheers, mate.

Thanks CW! Probably the biggest learning I have made through the last 2 years is that a MR requires hard work. All the time. NOT just when you are in crisis. Most of the sitches here are because one or both spouses at some point stopped working on the MR. They require constant work.

Closed on the sale of the other house this afternoon! Feels awesome.

Glad to hear.

Congrats! Must be a huge weight lifted from the shoulders.

Congratulations on everything going well, thank you for all the support you provide on this forum!

Originally Posted by Steve85

...But I continue to DB. Newcomers this is something I firmly believe in. That the minute you stop GAL...180ing....being healthily self-differentiated is the minute you start heading towards another BD. So those of you that are Ring and piecing, never stop DBing!!

Thanks for sharing this nugget of wisdom. Committing now to a lifetime of working on MYSELF, even if this M ends and I need to move on to a new relationship! I lost myself completely in parenting and the hustle and bustle of life, but I will not let that happen again. I am trying to get back to the person I was before marriage. I told my DS the other day that I actually used to be a fun-loving, bubbly person who smiled a lot; it is hard to believe that now but I am changing that to get back to that person. I miss her and want her back even more than I want H back.

Originally Posted by Steve85

...But I continue to DB. Newcomers this is something I firmly believe in. That the minute you stop GAL...180ing....being healthily self-differentiated is the minute you start heading towards another BD. So those of you that are Ring and piecing, never stop DBing!!

Thanks for sharing this nugget of wisdom. Committing now to a lifetime of working on MYSELF, even if this M ends and I need to move on to a new relationship! I lost myself completely in parenting and the hustle and bustle of life, but I will not let that happen again. I am trying to get back to the person I was before marriage. I told my DS the other day that I actually used to be a fun-loving, bubbly person who smiled and laughed a LOT; it is hard to believe that now but I am changing that to get back to that person. I miss her and want her back even more than I want H back.

Originally Posted by HesAble

Originally Posted by Steve85

...But I continue to DB. Newcomers this is something I firmly believe in. That the minute you stop GAL...180ing....being healthily self-differentiated is the minute you start heading towards another BD. So those of you that are Ring and piecing, never stop DBing!!

Thanks for sharing this nugget of wisdom. Committing now to a lifetime of working on MYSELF, even if this M ends and I need to move on to a new relationship! I lost myself completely in parenting and the hustle and bustle of life, but I will not let that happen again. I am trying to get back to the person I was before marriage. I told my DS the other day that I actually used to be a fun-loving, bubbly person who smiled a lot; it is hard to believe that now but I am changing that to get back to that person. I miss her and want her back even more than I want H back.

Yes! I love this! The true you was there once, she is still there you just need to find her.

Hey guys. Quick update. Things are going well. We've been able to do some things and get some things that we'd been holding off on while the previous house was on the market. Things are going very well, D16 even brought home her best report card ever for the 1st semester!

But recently I've been having some regrets. I love our new house, love living where we are living, and love the property we have. It is all awesome. I have my home gym setup in the basement, I've been working out and I love the convenience. I couldn't be happier with where we are living.

But some regrets have been needling the back of my head. Wondering if fighting so hard for the MR was the right thing to do. I keep going back to when I started to get really get good at DBing and started getting excited about the prospect of a new life, and the worlds and opportunities that would have opened up to me. This isn't as bad as the feeling I had of wanting to end things a year ago this past December, just more of a thought I keep having in the back of my head as I see other LBSs holding on so tight for dear life in their situations.

Any other LBSs that have successfully turned their sitches around go through that? Hoos?

S,

I obviously don�t know because I didn�t reconcile but I am guessing that it�s common. I would imagine there is pressure to be on all the time and that you can�t let your guard down for a second or It will happen again. You know how feelings are they come and go so I�m sure this will pass.

Just keep moving forward.

Originally Posted by Steve85

I keep going back to when I started to get really get good at DBing and started getting excited about the prospect of a new life, and the worlds and opportunities that would have opened up to me.

I believe there are certain limits that are good for a marriage. One the other hand, I believe you can create excitement and new experiences with your wife. Lead her to the excitement you want.

Yeah, i posted on this a while back. Something to the effect of "it sucked but in some ways i never felt more alive." I also still get little twinges of "hmmmm, what if" WRT other women who give me attention, but that's all it is. I think it's natural. Just as it's natural to still have twinges of resentment and anger. It's a process.

Dont get me wrong i wouldn't trade my current R with my W for anything... a whole, intact, loving family has been, just, well, better than it ever was before. It's even rubbed off on our boys. Our relationship with them and theirs with each other has even gotten better in the wake of our reconcilliation. I think the true challenge is to keep things fresh... not just with your W and your MR, but with yourself in all aspects of your life. Dont get stagnant, but constantly stretch to do things outside of your comfort zone...Take joy in your new discoveries.. and above all remember how strongly you leaned on your faith and your God during your darkest times. Don't stop leaning on him just because things seem better now.

Hope this helps

Originally Posted by LH19

S,

I obviously don�t know because I didn�t reconcile but I am guessing that it�s common. I would imagine there is pressure to be on all the time and that you can�t let your guard down for a second or It will happen again. You know how feelings are they come and go so I�m sure this will pass.

Just keep moving forward.

Thanks LH, always good to hear it even if I already know it. In the past I would let these kinds of feelings start activating my NGS. Luckily now I keep them in check. Mainly because I am in a healthier place. I still GAL. I still look to self-improve. And I still believe in self-differentiation.....she is not the master of my happiness, nor am I hers!

One example I thought of last night. Her and D have been sick and my D has been wanting them both to sleep in the livingroom. Last night I was exhausted (work has been really hectic lately) and I also got my lifting in, so by 10 I was wiped. I went in and got in bed. She came by later and asked "Are you in bed for the night?" I said "Yeah I am" with no anger or frustration in my voice. The old Steve would have snapped at her like: "I am laying here in the dark, in the bed, no I am just resting my eyes!" Though I wouldn't have said all that, the attitude would have been clear in my curt "Yes!". So much better today than 2 years ago.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Originally Posted by Steve85

I keep going back to when I started to get really get good at DBing and started getting excited about the prospect of a new life, and the worlds and opportunities that would have opened up to me.

I believe there are certain limits that are good for a marriage. One the other hand, I believe you can create excitement and new experiences with your wife. Lead her to the excitement you want.

Yes, I do need to start looking into that. Date night will become a regular occurrence again now that the old house is sold. I got her a couple of "spicy" things for V-day too. Haven't had a go with them yet since she's been sick, but this is a great suggestion that I need to double-down on.

Originally Posted by hoosjim

Yeah, i posted on this a while back. Something to the effect of "it sucked but in some ways i never felt more alive." I also still get little twinges of "hmmmm, what if" WRT other women who give me attention, but that's all it is. I think it's natural. Just as it's natural to still have twinges of resentment and anger. It's a process.

Dont get me wrong i wouldn't trade my current R with my W for anything... a whole, intact, loving family has been, just, well, better than it ever was before. It's even rubbed off on our boys. Our relationship with them and theirs with each other has even gotten better in the wake of our reconcilliation. I think the true challenge is to keep things fresh... not just with your W and your MR, but with yourself in all aspects of your life. Dont get stagnant, but constantly stretch to do things outside of your comfort zone...Take joy in your new discoveries.. and above all remember how strongly you leaned on your faith and your God during your darkest times. Don't stop leaning on him just because things seem better now.

Hope this helps

Thanks hoos! Glad to know it isn't just me. I think there is a part of most guys that feel like being single again would be a blast. Now that financially we are in a very good place again, I feel like that yearning is just bursting at the seams. But I do love your idea to turn back to faith and God. Always such a great thing and a good reminder to hear. Thank you for that.

Steve, I really appreciate how open and honest you are about how difficult piecing is. I wish everyone that is DB'ing would take the time to read all your threads so they can have realistic expectations if they ever get a chance to recon. Once you've been BD'd there's just no easy path back whether you recon or not.

Originally Posted by Steve85

I keep going back to when I started to get really get good at DBing and started getting excited about the prospect of a new life, and the worlds and opportunities that would have opened up to me.

Well from the perspective of someone who GAL'd like a crazy person and did not recon, I've made the most of it and yes, I have had a LOT of fun post-D. It's been really great, I'm not going to lie, LOL! At first I kept saying that given a choice to go back that I would still choose marriage (if I had the choice, which I didn't). But now? I don't think that anymore. I'm not "glad" it happened, it was a horrible thing to go through. But I would not rewind the clock and save my M if given the choice now. My life is what it is, and I accept and even embrace it. It's not perfect, but it's mine. My M was a beautiful chapter in my life. Now I'm living in a different chapter.

Now contrast that with my brother who has been divorced a good 10 years, never dated again, carries almost 100k in CC debt and is just miserable and blames it all on his long-gone XW.

So what is my point, it's that whether you recon or not isn't the issue, the issue is what you do with your life. And that is strictly up to you. You can recon and make that the best, most beautiful outcome possible. Or you can live with constant regret. I think you lean more towards the former than the latter, but certainly I have seen people do the opposite and make themselves miserable. Same goes for if you don't recon, you can make that wonderful or miserable. It's all about your own personal grit and determination.

Move forward with no regrets and with full commitment to make it the best life possible for yourself and for others. That's the true meaning of agape love.

Very inspirational Steve85. Congrats on everything and keeping hope alive for others.

Thanks so much Steve! For sharing and for staying committed!
Rly inspirational!

Originally Posted by Mach40

Very inspirational Steve85. Congrats on everything and keeping hope alive for others.

Originally Posted by Mumin

Thanks so much Steve! For sharing and for staying committed!
Rly inspirational!

Thanks guys. One thing I've learned is that MR are like plants. They need constant attention, watering, nurturing, and maintenance. Or they will die.

So true Steve, about nurturing etc. Marriage is like a garden.. Feed it well with love water and food and it will return it..

Hey dear friend. Just wait for the cycle up, it�s coming.

Commitment and willingness.

And lot of patience.

Keep walking Steve.

Update on my D's and my relationship:

Over the last few months, I've been noticing that our relationship has been much much better. I just kept being the best dad and father that I could. As I've stated before, my W was much more quick to embrace my changes than my D was. It is important to remember that I was as bad of a father as I was a husband. I could make excuses (stressful job working 90-100 hours a week, etc), but none of that matters. The fact was I was absent. And when I was there I was surly and grumpy. I did some things right (never missed her school and sporting events, etc, always took care of her monetarily), but in general I was a bad father. Half of being a father is being there and being engaged. And in a positive, supportive way. I wasn't even doing that.

So after BD 2017, I started instituting my changes. I went to IC. I read self-help books. I learned the art of empathy and validation. I 180'd on bad behavior. I remained emotionally consistent no matter what the problem or behavior.

As I said, by about May 18, my W was fully trusting and embracing of my changes. It took my D way longer.

Last night we went to her varsity girls' basketball team playoff game. She chose not to play this year for a lot of reasons.

Anyway, I met her and my W halfway, then we rode to the game together. D wanted to sit up front (never does that!) Then at the game we walked single file down to a bleacher seat, me, my D, then my W. She walked to the other side of me and sat down (so it went her, me and my W, me in the middle). NO WAY does she choose to sit there a year ago. Then when we stopped on the way home (after eating) to get my W's car, D hopped out of the back and hopped in the front of the truck with me. Again, a while back no way does she choose to ride home with me instead of my W.

I was so emotional thinking about this week. People, make small changes in your life today! The dividends will eventually pay off.

Right on Steve85... Small genuine changes.. People will notice.

A truly inspirational case... I hope I can be the man that you are. Takes a tonne of willpower to turn this around!

Keep up the good work, Steve!...

Steve,

Is everything ok?

Echoing LH's concern

Hey guys, yes things are fine. This shelter in place stuff has me going stir crazy so I've been out on the property a lot. I'm on temporary furlough so been staying off the laptop and been outside as much as the weather permits. Being doing things around the house when I can't be in the property. Appreciate you guys checking in with me.

On the marriage front, things are absolutely great. I can't imagine being quarantined together before when things were so bad. Everything happens for a reason.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Hey guys, yes things are fine. This shelter in place stuff has me going stir crazy so I've been out on the property a lot. I'm on temporary furlough so been staying off the laptop and been outside as much as the weather permits. Being doing things around the house when I can't be in the property. Appreciate you guys checking in with me.

On the marriage front, things are absolutely great. I can't imagine being quarantined together before when things were so bad. Everything happens for a reason.

Amazing to hear!!!! Sorry about the temporary furlough but there are so many in that boat. I wonder how long it will take the economy to recover from all this? Months?? Years??

Great to read you Steve.

Stay strong there!

Right on Steve. Glad things are working for ya. This house confinement thing is definitely causing people to get stir crazy. But, our yards and homes look great.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Hey guys, yes things are fine. This shelter in place stuff has me going stir crazy so I've been out on the property a lot. I'm on temporary furlough so been staying off the laptop and been outside as much as the weather permits. Being doing things around the house when I can't be in the property. Appreciate you guys checking in with me.

On the marriage front, things are absolutely great. I can't imagine being quarantined together before when things were so bad. Everything happens for a reason.

Glad to hear things are going well, Steve. I find myself debating a lot whether the quarantine and the isolation that comes with it during a seperation is good for this process or compounds it, but I certainly agree with you that a full quarantine with a spouse who wants to leave might cause some real problems.

So I mentioned in Bluesea's thread that I was having "one of those days". Not really sure how to describe it but I just was having a feeling of, blah. Like now that we are well over 2 years into this Ring and piecing, I am questioning if I made the right choice again. Can't really put my finger on it, there have been no specific incidents or problems, just a general feeling of malaise and unhappiness.

First, things with my D, now 17, are really improved. Other than we she is beefing with her BFF (like she is right now), our relationship is greatly improved. We just did a road trip for a family wedding a few states away (wedding was delayed 3 months due to corona), and we got along great. Being an only child she will always have a sense of entitlement and be a bit spoiled, but the anger and venom she had towards me 2 years ago seems to be gone.

My W and I also are getting along well. We are better than we have been in all of our marriage. We are team, we recently got new furniture for the house (after old house finally sold a few months ago!), and we've been working well together on other things that relate to the house, etc.

But as I've said before, Ring and piecing is difficult. I think it is even more difficult than Ding. Ding is like ripping off a bandaid. It hurts but then the healing begins. Ring and piecing is like putting on a bandaid, ripping it off, over and over and over again. It is work. And it is hard, arduous, difficult work that requires you to be ON all the time. There is a lot of "waiting for the other shoe to drop" on both sides. The WAS keeps looking at the LBS wondering if one slip up is the start of the old behaviors returning. And there is obvious trust issues going the other way from the LBS to WAS. After 2 years and 3 months of official RIng and piecing I can honestly say that it is still a work in progress. And I am beginning to believe that it will be for the rest of our lives together.

So if you are in a position as a LBS, where you get a choice to walk away yourself, or move to Ring and piecing, consider carefully what you want. Because if you think "oh we work through this and things go back to normal in a few weeks or months or years", think again. I know the phrase "new normal" is way over used in this current COVID world, but your MR will never go back to a previous normal, ever again.

Just wanted to say thank you for sharing this Steve! This is more valuable information than I have read in a long time and very important for all LBS to read and think about.

Steve, you are a fountain of knowledge.

Originally Posted by Steve85

So I mentioned in Bluesea's thread that I was having "one of those days". Not really sure how to describe it but I just was having a feeling of, blah. Like now that we are well over 2 years into this Ring and piecing, I am questioning if I made the right choice again. Can't really put my finger on it, there have been no specific incidents or problems, just a general feeling of malaise and unhappiness.

Sorry to hear about the uneasiness Steve. I think anyone and everyone whom goes through the process will have these days where the pain, doubts, distrusts or anything unaddressed perks right back up. Especially if there was a trigger whether conscious or not. Hoosjim felt the same at times according to some of his feedback. Someone here wrote that the LBS may always have doubts. Here's my thoughts on that....any relationship can end at any moment. The difference im someone like you is that you dont ignore that fact. Its much easier to feel secure and believe D can never happen to us, or that our spouse wont stray. In the end, it happens to at least half of us. You knowing this have the advantage over a blind fool. You actively battle yourself and your demons to make a best life, lowering the chances of poor outcomes.

Originally Posted by Steve85

First, things with my D, now 17, are really improved. Other than we she is beefing with her BFF (like she is right now), our relationship is greatly improved. We just did a road trip for a family wedding a few states away (wedding was delayed 3 months due to corona), and we got along great. Being an only child she will always have a sense of entitlement and be a bit spoiled, but the anger and venom she had towards me 2 years ago seems to be gone.

Glad to hear about the improvement.

Originally Posted by Steve85

But as I've said before, Ring and piecing is difficult. I think it is even more difficult than Ding. Ding is like ripping off a bandaid. It hurts but then the healing begins. Ring and piecing is like putting on a bandaid, ripping it off, over and over and over again. It is work. And it is hard, arduous, difficult work that requires you to be ON all the time. There is a lot of "waiting for the other shoe to drop" on both sides. The WAS keeps looking at the LBS wondering if one slip up is the start of the old behaviors returning. And there is obvious trust issues going the other way from the LBS to WAS. After 2 years and 3 months of official RIng and piecing I can honestly say that it is still a work in progress. And I am beginning to believe that it will be for the rest of our lives together.

So if you are in a position as a LBS, where you get a choice to walk away yourself, or move to Ring and piecing, consider carefully what you want. Because if you think "oh we work through this and things go back to normal in a few weeks or months or years", think again. I know the phrase "new normal" is way over used in this current COVID world, but your MR will never go back to a previous normal, ever again.

This is good information Steve. If religion isn't a factor and there are no kids involved, I think this is why it is beneficial for some to go for the D if trust is too far gone. Not worth the lifelong struggle in some cases. When kids are involved or both spouses agree to make it work, I think its a battle worth fighting. (Sans abuse). The stats about couples who go through hell and fight through it, finding happiness 5 years later is promising.

Ok. I am going to challenge you here Steve.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Can't really put my finger on it, there have been no specific incidents or problems, just a general feeling of malaise and unhappiness.

Pretty sure 97% of all long-term marriages go through these periods

Originally Posted by Steve85

First, things with my D, now 17, are really improved. Other than we she is beefing with her BFF (like she is right now), our relationship is greatly improved. We just did a road trip for a family wedding a few states away (wedding was delayed 3 months due to corona), and we got along great. Being an only child she will always have a sense of entitlement and be a bit spoiled, but the anger and venom she had towards me 2 years ago seems to be gone.

This is great news and is a testament of your hard work

Originally Posted by Steve85

My W and I also are getting along well. We are better than we have been in all of our marriage.

I guess this is where I get confused on what the problem exactly is right now

Originally Posted by Steve85

But as I've said before, Ring and piecing is difficult. I think it is even more difficult than Ding. Ding is like ripping off a bandaid. It hurts but then the healing begins.

Have you ever gone through a divorce Steve? Ever been mandated by the courts that you can only see your children half the time? Tread lightly my friend.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Ring and piecing is like putting on a bandaid, ripping it off, over and over and over again. It is work.

Marriage is hard work. Maybe you can explain more

Originally Posted by Steve85

And it is hard, arduous, difficult work that requires you to be ON all the time.

I think you feel you are not enough and you need to be on all the time or else she will start to look for the external validation again. Did she work through that in IC? If she did then you shouldn't have to worry about being on all the time.

Originally Posted by Steve85

There is a lot of "waiting for the other shoe to drop" on both sides. The WAS keeps looking at the LBS wondering if one slip up is the start of the old behaviors returning.

Sounds like mindreading to me

Originally Posted by Steve85

And there is obvious trust issues going the other way from the LBS to WAS. After 2 years and 3 months of official RIng and piecing I can honestly say that it is still a work in progress. And I am beginning to believe that it will be for the rest of our lives together.

Well Steve that is what happens when you choose to stay married to someone who has lied and cheated. You use those exact statements on the board all the time

Originally Posted by Steve85

So if you are in a position as a LBS, where you get a choice to walk away yourself, or move to Ring and piecing, consider carefully what you want. Because if you think "oh we work through this and things go back to normal in a few weeks or months or years", think again. I know the phrase "new normal" is way over used in this current COVID world, but your MR will never go back to a previous normal, ever again.

I thought the whole idea of DB was to get to a marriage 2.0 and not go back to the previous normal. Seems to me you are living the DB dream or is there something you are not telling us?

LH, not sure I can disagree with anything you are saying! Thanks for the challenges. I readily admit that I am not sure what the problem is. Like I said I can't put a finger on it. Maybe just something going on with me. Maybe it is WFH 100% of the time due to corona. Maybe it is some external pressures from extended family. I will continue to process it.

LH, also didn't mean to suggest D was easy. But I think the LBSs here fear it so much and think Ring and piecing is all that. While I've never been through a D I've been close to many that have. Most have moved on and been happier afterward. But no, I haven't been through it. Though I did study the topic extensively through my sitch to be ready for it.

Thanks for the responses guys. Core, it can definitely be worth it, but there will always be a piece of me that wonders what my life could have been post D. I think that is probably normal.

Steve,

I have been on both side, and they are each difficult in their own way. How long have you been having this uneasy feeling? Has it been ongoing, or did it just begin? Hopefully it will pass with time. No harm, no foul.

I am a big proponent of journaling. I watched a video about a month ago, and it said one of the problems with journaling, is that keeps you focused on the issue(s). I had never considered that, but it seems to slow down the healing process. I wonder if you being proactive on the forums stirs some difficult emotions from when you were in the midst of your sitch. You are a tremendous asset to these forums, but it shouldn't come at the cost of your inner peace.

Just food for thought.

Originally Posted by LITB

Steve,

I have been on both side, and they are each difficult in their own way. How long have you been having this uneasy feeling? Has it been ongoing, or did it just begin? Hopefully it will pass with time. No harm, no foul.

I am a big proponent of journaling. I watched a video about a month ago, and it said one of the problems with journaling, is that keeps you focused on the issue(s). I had never considered that, but it seems to slow down the healing process. I wonder if you being proactive on the forums stirs some difficult emotions from when you were in the midst of your sitch. You are a tremendous asset to these forums, but it shouldn't come at the cost of your inner peace.

Just food for thought.

I think that is a good point related to journaling. I journaled extensively during my first sitch back in 2005. I do think the benefits outweigh the problems with it. For instance, being active here helps me stay up on my changes, and reminds me of what can happen if I were to ever backslide.

Originally Posted by Steve85

I think that is a good point related to journaling. I journaled extensively during my first sitch back in 2005. I do think the benefits outweigh the problems with it. For instance, being active here helps me stay up on my changes, and reminds me of what can happen if I were to ever backslide.

That's a good point. What about the uneasy feeling(s) you are dealing with? Something new? Or something ongoing?

Originally Posted by LITB

Originally Posted by Steve85

I think that is a good point related to journaling. I journaled extensively during my first sitch back in 2005. I do think the benefits outweigh the problems with it. For instance, being active here helps me stay up on my changes, and reminds me of what can happen if I were to ever backslide.

That's a good point. What about the uneasy feeling(s) you are dealing with? Something new? Or something ongoing?

Oh it is something new. Not that I haven't had it occasionally here and there over the last 2+ years. But to LH's point, I think a lot of that is true about marriage in general.

I agree with LH. I think if it were something that persisted for a long period of time, then it would be cause for concern.

Your transparency is appreciated.

Originally Posted by LITB

Steve,

I have been on both side, and they are each difficult in their own way. How long have you been having this uneasy feeling? Has it been ongoing, or did it just begin? Hopefully it will pass with time. No harm, no foul.

I am a big proponent of journaling. I watched a video about a month ago, and it said one of the problems with journaling, is that keeps you focused on the issue(s). I had never considered that, but it seems to slow down the healing process. I wonder if you being proactive on the forums stirs some difficult emotions from when you were in the midst of your sitch. You are a tremendous asset to these forums, but it shouldn't come at the cost of your inner peace.

Just food for thought.

Isn't this why people do gratitude journals? Focus on the positives... even the tiniest.. . Like enjoying the sunshine... and as time goes on gets in more detail... thankful that X we.t above and beyond doing Y today...etc.

It changes your mindset and your focus. May make your funk seem more like an hiccup rather than a terminal disease.

Originally Posted by KitCat

Originally Posted by LITB

Steve,

I have been on both side, and they are each difficult in their own way. How long have you been having this uneasy feeling? Has it been ongoing, or did it just begin? Hopefully it will pass with time. No harm, no foul.

I am a big proponent of journaling. I watched a video about a month ago, and it said one of the problems with journaling, is that keeps you focused on the issue(s). I had never considered that, but it seems to slow down the healing process. I wonder if you being proactive on the forums stirs some difficult emotions from when you were in the midst of your sitch. You are a tremendous asset to these forums, but it shouldn't come at the cost of your inner peace.

Just food for thought.

Isn't this why people do gratitude journals? Focus on the positives... even the tiniest.. . Like enjoying the sunshine... and as time goes on gets in more detail... thankful that X we.t above and beyond doing Y today...etc.

It changes your mindset and your focus. May make your funk seem more like an hiccup rather than a terminal disease.

As long as one is focusing on the positives. These situations tend to cause the opposite from my experience, until we arrive at acceptance. Steve is very in tune with himself and his emotions.

I believe the things we focus on, is what manifest in our hearts as implied in your last sentence.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Ring and piecing is like putting on a bandaid, ripping it off, over and over and over again. It is work. And it is hard, arduous, difficult work that requires you to be ON all the time.

Relationships are hard work. Old bad habits are extremely hard to keep down. They are the easy path.

I am not expecting answers to these question, but rather for you to contemplate:

1) Has your W fallen back in love with you?
2) Does she look at you with admiration?
3) Does she desire you?
4) Is she meeting your needs? Are you meeting hers?
5) Whats missing in the R? What can you do to make this happen?
6) Is IC and MC working?
7) Are you both listening to each other?
8) Has she went through a personal growth phase like you?
9) Is there passion? Is there excitement?

Those are just off the top of my head.

Hey Steve

As always thanks for all your words and advice across the forums. You have helped a lot of us out.

I would maybe suggest taking some time to focus on your M and yourself for awhile. Sometimes reading through everyone's difficulties can take an unexpected toll on oneself. These boards and forums are a lifesaver, without a doubt, but there is a lot of trauma, pain, sadness and anguish expressed here. I would be lying if I said it hasnt occasionally seeped out into the real world for myself as well - leaving me sometimes feeling hopeless.

Marriages are hard work - there is no other way about it. They take time and effort from both people, there are bad spells, good spells, awful spells, and terrific spells. But that's the same as in life. There is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It always is as it is - and sometimes you just have to grin and bear it to get through to the better times. That's what I've learned so far, anyway.

I'm sorry you're feeling down. Sit with it awhile, the feeling may pass soon

Take care, man - stay strong.

Thanks R2C! Glad to see you back. This forum is better off with you.

IW, thanks for the suggestion. I really do find the board therapeutic. I honestly believe that without this board I would be in a worse place, that this forum helps me stay up on my 180s and self-improve. Plus I see the board as a "pay it forward" thing. Knowing how other LBS feel and the struggle they are in to do what feels natural but harms their situations and themselves, it makes it quite easy to stick around to give encouragement, advice and reflection. If I can help one LBS see their sitch more clearly, and how DBing can help them then I feel it is a net positive.

The feeling is mostly gone now. My W had an accident around the house (minor but painful) so I sprung into H action. This is a 180 for me. In the past I would have told her to shake it off. You know locker room, "get back out there" kind of stuff. But I am past that now. So I fixed I helped her with treatment, and then fixed what caused her accident. One of the things my W has always expressed is wanting to feel taken care of, so I am glad I can accommodate that now after years of the "buck up" mentality.

Steve,

I found your update yesterday a very interesting read btw..

Random question - Does your wife know about this site. You contribute to a lot of the posts, and often in great detail. This must take up a considerable amount of time. I know the general rule is we keep this site away from partners etc and its a place to focus on you - But your sitch is different in that you reconciled, and unlike many others who either reconcile or move on, you are still here and , you contribute daily to most active posts. Just curious as to if you wife knows the extent to at which you help others really.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Plus I see the board as a "pay it forward" thing. Knowing how other LBS feel and the struggle they are in to do what feels natural but harms their situations and themselves, it makes it quite easy to stick around to give encouragement, advice and reflection. If I can help one LBS see their sitch more clearly, and how DBing can help them then I feel it is a net positive.

It really is appreciated, Steve (and ditto to all the vets who also share their insights).

Hope your W is okay now. Even this post taught me something - I've been a 'up you hop, you can do it' type too.

Originally Posted by MrBrside

Steve,

I found your update yesterday a very interesting read btw..

Random question - Does your wife know about this site. You contribute to a lot of the posts, and often in great detail. This must take up a considerable amount of time. I know the general rule is we keep this site away from partners etc and its a place to focus on you - But your sitch is different in that you reconciled, and unlike many others who either reconcile or move on, you are still here and , you contribute daily to most active posts. Just curious as to if you wife knows the extent to at which you help others really.

Yes and no.

She has seen it on my browser. Whether she has ever visited here or not I am not sure. I do not think she has. Because she has seen it she does know that I am active here. It was probably a good year, year-and-a-half before she discovered this site on my browser.

The no is because I do not think she knows the extent that I try to help others here. Maybe she does if she ever visited, but she has never said anything to me. What I can say is that the information around my own sitch are things she pretty much already knows. We have had a lot of discussions in the months since we started Ring and piecing, about many of the things I post here in my own sitch. She was very instrumental in the progress with my D. She scheduled therapy sessions for the three of us, she had discussions with my D about how she needed to let go of how I used to be and to give me another chance.

So yes, she knows I spend time here. But I do not know to the extent she has read things here.

Originally Posted by Steve85

The feeling is mostly gone now. My W had an accident around the house (minor but painful) so I sprung into H action. This is a 180 for me. In the past I would have told her to shake it off. You know locker room, "get back out there" kind of stuff. But I am past that now. So I fixed I helped her with treatment, and then fixed what caused her accident. One of the things my W has always expressed is wanting to feel taken care of, so I am glad I can accommodate that now after years of the "buck up" mentality.

So I think I am confused Steve. Did this cause you to have feeling of doubt?

Originally Posted by LH19

Originally Posted by Steve85

The feeling is mostly gone now. My W had an accident around the house (minor but painful) so I sprung into H action. This is a 180 for me. In the past I would have told her to shake it off. You know locker room, "get back out there" kind of stuff. But I am past that now. So I fixed I helped her with treatment, and then fixed what caused her accident. One of the things my W has always expressed is wanting to feel taken care of, so I am glad I can accommodate that now after years of the "buck up" mentality.

So I think I am confused Steve. Did this cause you to have feeling of doubt?

No this caused me to jump into action, and therefore the feeling subsided and hasn't been back since.

Ok Steve lets work through this with some honesty and perspective that I see in your sitch. It seems like every 6 months or so you have doubts so let�s get to the root cause.

Below are IMO reconciliation musts for a successful reconciliation.

As for number 1, I can�t really say other then I know she�s a stay at home mom of a 17 year old daughter. It doesn�t seem by your posts that she goes out of her way to please you by keeping a clean house which I think she knows by now is to your likening. I also know you feel you always have to be on so that doesn�t sound like you view it as her seeing you as high value. Being on all the time can be exhausting.

As for number 2, she really has no way of knowing that because you have never separated.

As for number 3, pretty sure that never happened. You begged and pleaded after the first two EAs and kind of glossed over EA3.

So that kind of brings us to the last paragraph and I think deep down inside this is what you fear.

Am I off?

SUCESSFUL RECONCILIATION MUSTS
1) She sees you as someone of extremely high value
2) She views a relationship with you as something much better than a life with someone else or a life alone
3) She's willing to work to win you

Without those three things, she's going to walk again down the line, because she really doesn't have the motivation to work with you to change anything, your relationship will keep seeking the same equilibrium it has had because of how your personalities and issues come together.

LH, interesing perspectives, as always with you. Thanks for the resposnes.

I did not gloss over EA3, though it was not really much of an EA as EAs go. The first two she was in deep. The one you are talking about from last year was more of "liking the attention". She had no problem ending it, gave me full transparency, and was very remorseful and even grovelled. That is why I "glossed over it", because she did all the work in that one. I simply stated, "I refuse to be involved in having to constantly check up on you". It was amazing the difference in how I approached it and in turn how she approached it. I know it may have looked like I "glossed over it" but that was not the case. My detachment took over. I was never sad, angry, or emotional in any way. I simple drew a line in the sand and said "either you are in or out", and she fell over herself to prove to me she was in. And her behavior has been consistent since then.

I do take issue with your "successful reconciliation musts". Not because they aren't musts, because they are. But reconciliation is not something you ever go "okay, it is successful! NEXT!" It is a WiP. Forever. You cautioned me to be careful since I've never been through a D on how I characterize it, so I will push that back at you. You've never R'd so tread lightly.

However, the musts are true. A WiP reconciliation must have those things....and more for continued success!

What I can tell you, is there indiscretion last year proved to me that 1-3 are there. She does view me of someone of extremely high value. She does view her relationship with me as better than with someone else or alone. And she is willing to work with me to win.

I could spend plenty of time on those 3 and how they are present, but to be honest, I do not need to. I know they are there now, and that is good enough for me.

As far as the other "issues" you bring up, she has made leaps and bounds in a lot of areas, including housekeeping. Will she ever be the neat freak, anal retentive OCD level that I am at? Absolutely not, but I have no complaints as she has 180'd nicely on keeping house over the last couple of years.

And I think you misunderstood what I meant by "always being on". This is not something that I have to do to please her. This is related to me and my 180s. When the old man starts to rear its ugly head, I have to tamp it done. Just like our trip a couple of weeks ago, that night at the hotel after a 14 hour road trip, my D started doing some light complaining about things. The old Steve85 started to surface...the angry bitter "I just spent 14 hours in a driver's seat don't mess with me!" guy. After a trip to the restroom I came out and calmly apologized to my D for being grumpy. THAT is what I am talking about...always having to check myself when I have a moment of slipping into being someone that I don't ever want to be again. Not for my W. Not for my D. BUT FOR ME! They are just the beneficiaries of that commitment to myself.

Thanks LH, as always you make me think...and I appreciate that.

Originally Posted by Steve85

I do take issue with your "successful reconciliation musts". Not because they aren't musts, because they are. But reconciliation is not something you ever go "okay, it is successful! NEXT!" It is a WiP. Forever. You cautioned me to be careful since I've never been through a D on how I characterize it, so I will push that back at you. You've never R'd so tread lightly.

This is actually inaccurate. I did recon for 1.5 years after the first bomb drop but she was unwilling to do 1,2, or 3 so it was just a stay of execution and I put myself through misery for an extra 18 months. That's why I give out the advice to others to help prevent them for making the same mistakes. Most people don't change unless they truly value the things they are trying to keep in their lives.

I am glad your W is doing all those things. I guess you are just having bad days like most married people and not waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Originally Posted by LH19

Originally Posted by Steve85

I do take issue with your "successful reconciliation musts". Not because they aren't musts, because they are. But reconciliation is not something you ever go "okay, it is successful! NEXT!" It is a WiP. Forever. You cautioned me to be careful since I've never been through a D on how I characterize it, so I will push that back at you. You've never R'd so tread lightly.

This is actually inaccurate. I did recon for 1.5 years after the first bomb drop but she was unwilling to do 1,2, or 3 so it was just a stay of execution and I put myself through misery for an extra 18 months. That's why I give out the advice to others to help prevent them for making the same mistakes. Most people don't change unless they truly value the things they are trying to keep in their lives.

I am glad your W is doing all those things. I guess you are just having bad days like most married people and not waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I would argue that it was never true R, but merely a prolonging of your sitch.

I too made the same mistakes in EA#1 from 2005. Neither of us did work. The result was a repeat 12 years later. I was not about to make the same mistake this time.

Originally Posted by Steve85

I would argue that it was never true R, but merely a prolonging of your sitch.

LOL. That's my point exactly because I didn't have musts 1,2,3.

Originally Posted by LH19

Originally Posted by Steve85

I would argue that it was never true R, but merely a prolonging of your sitch.

LOL. That's my point exactly because I didn't have musts 1,2,3.

Fair enough!

Steve,

I wonder if any of us who have gone through the trauma of infidelity on the LBS side can ever recapture that innocence/trust/blind faith that your S will always be there no matter what in any new M, either with a new S or through R with your WAS. Is it even possible to ever go back to 100% blind trust even with a new partner? And/or, is that not really something we should strive for anyway-- there is value in not taking our partners for granted and always working to be the best ourselves we can be?

Interested to know what people think, either those who have Red or who have moved on to new relationships with new partners.

M

100% blind trust? I don't think a S should have that even in a MR where there was never an indiscretion. Blind signifies not being able to see if and when there are red flags. And we certainly see that with LBSs that come here convinced in their own mind that their WAS is not cheating. 100% trust I think is possible. But not blind. The minute we see something that makes us go "Hmmmm" we should be open to admitting to what we are seeing.

But can you go back to trusting a S, whether it is the cheating WAS or another S? I think so. As we like to say, consistent behavior over a long period of time can engender that trust once again. And certainly a new S that has never cheated can certainly be trusted unless and until they prove that they cannot be trusted.

Maybe you are asking about naivete? And again, I go back to the 100% blind trust. Being naive, or blindly trusting opens the door for indiscretion.

When I worked in retail they used to say: "15% of people will never steal no matter what. 15% will always steal no matter what. But the other 70% of people will steal if given the right opportunity or think they can get away with it." I think a similar thing can be said of married people. Will someone cheat if they think they will not get caught? The majority unfortunately probably would.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Will someone cheat if they think they will not get caught? The majority unfortunately probably would.

I agree. People just dont want it to be them that was cheated on, so they bury their head in the sand..
Cheating is a game for some. Until they get caught.

Just wanted to stop by and say thank you Steve.
Thank you for this thread, thank you for posting on my thread and thank you for everything you contribute to this forum!

Thanks Mumin, appreciate that.

Steve85, you have been through so much, and we can NOT thank you enough.. Sometimes, someone elses story helps us understand our own. You have helped immensely. Thnx

Hey bro! You knew it: it was only �one of those days�. You have the knowledge, you have the tools, you have your own trust.

Keep being yourself.

Thank Mach! Appreciate it.

neffer, my friend, good to see you. Thanks, agree 100% with you. I just have to keep pulling up my big boy pants and soldiering on! Feelings come and go. Not overreacting to them is one of the most important things a LBS can do in these situations.

Just reading through all of this steve.

I think you hit a huge point in regards to blind trust.

Trust is something that we build because of actions and experiences with another person, not something that we give out despite any red flags or indiscretions that we see along the way. I think maybe I had a little too much blind trust in my own sitch.

As always thanks for all the wisdom and for giving us newbies some things to reflect on and give some thought too.

Hope you're doing good. Keep on keeping on. As Neffer said YOU have definitley got the knowledge and the tools.

Steve --

Originally Posted by Steve

"15% of people will never steal no matter what. 15% will always steal no matter what. But the other 70% of people will steal if given the right opportunity or think they can get away with it." I think a similar thing can be said of married people. Will someone cheat if they think they will not get caught? The majority unfortunately probably would.

That is just scary and I hope that's not true. How could so many commit such betrayal, even if they could get away with it? If it is true that disappoints me, and changes my view of people in general then. I would rather be a person that trusts completely and gets hurt then one that is suspiciously scanning the terrain for 'opportunities' to get away with.

It sounds like you have been working with your S across multiple offenses of EA, always standing guard to keep close eye on changes. If this is the case, then clearly you are not considered high value. Maybe working on these boards is helping you to keep your guard up, because if you don't you are constantly being reminded of what will happen... you read about it everyday here.

Its okay to sit with your feelings, and not write them off so quickly. You have 'checked the box' and worked incredibly hard on your M, if you are never allowed to stand down, how will you ever enjoy life in general? I am definitely not saying what you should do - I am a staunch supporter of marriage and trying (as you know) - but, if you want to find marital peace - then something has to change in that dynamic between you and W. She seems to be coasting and not nearly trying as hard as you are....everyday.

Originally Posted by BlueSea

Steve --

Originally Posted by Steve

"15% of people will never steal no matter what. 15% will always steal no matter what. But the other 70% of people will steal if given the right opportunity or think they can get away with it." I think a similar thing can be said of married people. Will someone cheat if they think they will not get caught? The majority unfortunately probably would.

That is just scary and I hope that's not true. How could so many commit such betrayal, even if they could get away with it? If it is true that disappoints me, and changes my view of people in general then. I would rather be a person that trusts completely and gets hurt then one that is suspiciously scanning the terrain for 'opportunities' to get away with.

It sounds like you have been working with your S across multiple offenses of EA, always standing guard to keep close eye on changes. If this is the case, then clearly you are not considered high value. Maybe working on these boards is helping you to keep your guard up, because if you don't you are constantly being reminded of what will happen... you read about it everyday here.

Its okay to sit with your feelings, and not write them off so quickly. You have 'checked the box' and worked incredibly hard on your M, if you are never allowed to stand down, how will you ever enjoy life in general? I am definitely not saying what you should do - I am a staunch supporter of marriage and trying (as you know) - but, if you want to find marital peace - then something has to change in that dynamic between you and W. She seems to be coasting and not nearly trying as hard as you are....everyday.

Thanks Blue Sea. I think the "always on" things doesn't mean I am not myself, it means that I have to be constantly working on me, constantly be working on the MR. And what I have learned is.....THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE! The reason this forum exists is because so often, one or both of the Ss in a MR stop trying. I think that is why so many more Ws become WAWs than H become WAHs. Men have a tendency to just let a R languish. As long as there is active fighting and yelling, then men can get complacent as Hs. As long as a W is working at the MR then it can survive. But the minute a W gives up on the MR, she is ready to move on (in a lot of cases, not in all obviously), and the MR is in real trouble when the W gives up.

So I stay "on" in order to continue to become a better person, a better husband, and a better father. I post here because doing so helps me continue to cement my changes. One of the things we don't talk about a lot on this particular board is the work you should be doing in Ring and piecing. I try to bring it up because I honestly do not think LBS get it. I still think a majority of them think "I get through this and things can go back to normal". As LH and I discussed a few posts back, that is the best way to end up in another BD. And in fact, that is what I lived. After BD 2005 I did just enough to get us back to "normal" and 12 years later I got BD #2 for it.

Unfortunately, BDs are like diseases. If you've ever known anyone that has fought a disease then you know that a recurrence of that disease is usually worst than the first go around. And the same is true with recurrence of sitches. In my first sitch my W immediately said she didn't want a D. In the second sitch she immediately said she wanted a D. I wouldn't doubt that if we ever had BD#3 she would immediately go file for a D. Recurrences are not uncommon because we LBSs don't continue to put in the work. And when we get a BD#2 is it usually way worse than the first.

So I stay on because to not stay on would mean I am no longer doing the work. And that would mean BD#3, which the likelihood of recovering from would be low. My W, for her part, has been willing, herself, to put the work in. Much like she did post BD#1, for the majority of the 12 years after. Most of the MR books I read post BD#2 were books she had bought and read in the 12 years since BD#1. It took her about 3 months to get back on board following BD#2, but once she did she was working at it, and continues to work at it.

Anyway, you probably didn't expect such a long post in response, but I thought it was important to get these thoughts out. Thanks again.

Like Steve85 said, its a constant job, labor of love, to keep a relationship healthy..

Hey guys.

D17 has been away with various family for about a week now. Wife and I have bonded unbelievably well. I feel like a newly wed. I don't want to get graphic but she has returned to things we haven't done in 20 years. And I'm feeling so good because it includes lots of open mouth passionate kissing. I've been very open about how long it has taken for that to return. It was one of the last things to return as she had become more comfortable with my changes and feeling more secure about our future together.

If you're early on in piecing please remain patient. Stay consistent. Keep DBing. The hard work and effort is so worth it.

Steve85 - That's wonderful news. I've enjoyed reading through your historical threads and very happy to hear you're in a great spot right now. Keep it up, and thanks for all the insight/advice you give to other posters!

Thanks BL. It is just really amazing how far we've come. It has taken a longtime. AS, LH, R2C and others like to remind LBSs here that this is a marathon, not a sprint. And this is so true. After BD my W's love and attraction to me was dead. I've told the story about how she pointed out that when she looked at me she saw me like another guy with both knew that she had zero attraction to. It was definitely a blow to my ego. And it was something in the back of my head these 2 1/2 years that we have been piecing and Ring. I really wondered if she could ever get back to a place where she was attracted to me and could ever be in love with me again.

And while our sex life since Ring and piecing has been way better than it was for pretty much the whole of our marriage, I still wondered if I could ever get that girl back again that was so in love with me and so attracted to me and just thought that I was all that and a bag of chips. And the answer is yes, you can if you stay patient, follow the process and remain committed to your changes and consistent in them.

I could have given up at any point since we started Ring and piecing. And those that have followed my threads know that I have almost done that on a couple of occasions. That is where the patience comes in, Do nothing rash. Do not act on flights of fancy. Be consistent, committed, and stay the course.

And also require consistency from your WAS too.

Steve -

Reading your post could not have come at a better time!

I am only learning how difficult just R is much less piecing. It's a lot, especially after one feels they just got off the OW marathon and then you find yourself suiting up for another one --- with no break. This is just hard stuff, adulting on steroids, all in addition to just keeping "life" move forward (kids, work, schedules, et al). Your advice is timely because I feel like I am standing at a cross roads of two options, start the marathon or throw in the towel. Since I keep faltering on which way to go - I am defaulting and letting H's actions carry me and dictate the pace and ferocity of this upcoming marathon (he is all in for M2.0).

All this past week I have been wondering if I could ever again be "all that and a bag of chips" to my H, just like you mentioned. You have given me hope that it is possible - thank you. Your a good man Steve! thank you for sharing your journey with us - I truly have learned alot from you and your experiences.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Wife and I have bonded unbelievably well. I feel like a newly wed. I don't want to get graphic but she has returned to things we haven't done in 20 years.

Glad to hear.

Now that you have reached a "Mini-Goal", I am sure there are more needs for both of you that can be worked towards.

One of my mantras:
As the man, I am in charge of the romance and sex department.

I attempt to keep every interaction unpredictable and as exciting for her as possible. I try to change things up as much as possible. I talk about things that will happen in the future. I guage her response. I listen to her response. I ask her about previous encounters. "Tell me what you enjoyed the most about last night?" type questions. Be prepared for the same questions back at you. Or "I enjoyed kissing you yesterday." comments. I do this as a make/break contact doing my thing.

My 20yo will be heading back to college within a couple weeks. I am already building up the tension and suspense about what will happen when he is not in the house. This is all done playfully with a gleam in my eye.

Make her desire you. Have fun!

Bluesea, I think you need to give it lots of time. These sitches are not created over night and they certainly are not resolved over night either.

R2C, absolutely. Under my leadership she has, ummm, had an awakening!

Steve85,

Read through your situation and a lot of your support posts to others. I was also in a SSM the past 15 years or so. I to resented my wife for this. I tried to discuss it with her early on but she did not want to talk about it. I actually considered leaving her at one time but my sons were much younger then and I decided to rough it out while trying to remedy the situation.

I eventually just gave up. I still respected my wife as a person and mother but the resentment caused me to become negative and cynical. I sometimes did not want to do things with her because I was so bitter about the SSM. Needless to say she left after we dropped our youngest son off at college a year ago.

I haven�t ever told her how I feel the SSM was the root of all our problems and can�t now since I�m BDing and basically NC. I realize she is a WAS but she has also shown a lot of strange MLC behaviors. If you get a chance can you check out my thread in the MLC forum as I think you may be able to offer me additional advice from you perspective and how you addressed the SSM with your W.

Thanks,

Tax

Originally Posted by Steve85

But I continue to DB. Newcomers this is something I firmly believe in. That the minute you stop GAL...180ing....being healthily self-differentiated is the minute you start heading towards another BD. So those of you that are Ring and piecing, never stop DBing!!

Anyway, just wanted to post this. All I can do is continue to try to be the best Steve I can be!

Steve, I'm new here and suffering from a WAW. Without warning I was served divorce papers. You can read my story here.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2903626&page=1

Can we start talking about this, in fact can you help me through the GAL etc. stuff? I could really use someone who can assess just what I'm doing right and wrong, and since you too are a victim of this perhaps you can help? Thanks, Tom

New Thread:

#18 - Still working 2 years into Ring & Piecing