Hi,
Like so many others here I’m hoping for some guidance if I may.
My story
Been married 11 yrs together 16 – two Children, S10, D7.
Over the last 3-4 years, now and then we would have periods of standoffs. One wouldn’t speak to the other about something, that would escalate then die down and return to normal. Each time we would say to eachother that we need to communicate more and think no more of it.
Fast forward to May this year. We had another episode as described above. This appears to be the final straw for my W. She said to me that that she can’t do this anymore, she didn’t know if she wanted or had the energy to carry on the same cycle. Of course my immediate response was this time lets really sort it out. Probably words she knew I would say. And I would mean them, but I guess I never did my part to really back them up.
Since then we still slept in the same bed, but no intimacy. Time went on, situation remained the same and by August I realised actually this time she is absolutely serious. So I did a lot of soul searching and indulged in looking back for triggers in my behaviour that has brought about this situation. I realised that I needed help. I went to the Docs and was prescribed anti- depressants, and booked myself with a C to talk about my issues.
During this time, my W had begun detaching, initiating steps for us to separate. Emails/texts/calls took a business like tone and I fell into the trap of desperately trying to cling on. Constant ILY’s reminders of what we had, marriage vows – you name it, I did it!
Turns out that was the worst thing. I was pressing the wrong buttons. It has steeled her resolve that she is right.
So, through C, I learnt I needed to validate her feelings and also understand my fear of conflict. I come from a divorced family, and whilst I was young, it has impacted on my life hugely. Conflict was never dealt with, and I would shy away from it with my W, because I’d associated it with my upbringing and feared that we would have the same result. Instead by shying away it has created the situation I’m in!
I have been reading self help books, have immersed myself in DR and tried to apply all the steps that ‘talk’ to me and the situation.
Where I’m at now you may ask?
Since September I have moved into spare room. We are living separately, but engaging for the childrens sake, and found a workable solution that allows this situation to play out. At her behest we have attended Mediation, separately, and following my meeting I understand it is purely a function to navigate full and final separation, custody, family plans , financials etc.
And I guess ultimately Divorce. Note this hasn’t been mentioned explicitly by her in any correspondence, conversations so don’t know if she is feeding the parting of ways in baby steps or not!
Well this is where I need some guidance. A couple of weeks ago, I wrote a letter to my W, validating her feelings. I didn’t cast any blame on her, though I know it does take two for these situations to arise I didn’t make it about me and what I was frustrated with. That she tried to reach out many times, and I would pull away (the fear), and then I would do the same, with the same result. I wanted her to understand that I really did understand her view. And I do.
I am fully committed to my M, and even more so as reading DR has resonated so deeply within me. I love my W, without question. Unconditionally infact. And I have realised that I was placing conditions upon her to fulfil my happiness.
In return she wrote back to me last week, underlining that she ‘can’t carry on anymore’ and ‘she doesn’t want to try’.
I thought ok, this is it. Time to throw in the towel. But I go back to advice I’ve read on this forum and the DR book. Let it be and settle in my mind. Be positive etc etc.
And things at home have been easier to bear, we sometimes eat together but the talk is about Kids and the logistics of their lives. Even thoughtful gestures coming my way, that weren’t there before.
However, W sent me an email about how we spend Christmas and when I want to attend Mediation to start the process of disentanglement. With me adopting DR techniques, and taking heart that there was a change – the email flummoxed me and instead of writing back on impulse and either refusing to engage or throwing in towel and saying right lets get on with it, I replied in acknowledgement that I have read her mail, but could I get back to her on it. What I’m struggling with is how I maintain course, when agreeing to her request seems counterintuitive to my aim to save our M, yet responding in a way that keeps the wins coming?
Any input, any further detail that would help please let me know. I’m trying my best
Chaz
I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome posting. Please visit all of the links.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D33,S32
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
In return she wrote back to me last week, underlining that she ‘can’t carry on anymore’ and ‘she doesn’t want to try’.
That's how she feels right now. Time will tell. You give up when you're ready to give up, not when someone else is.
However, W sent me an email about how we spend Christmas and when I want to attend Mediation to start the process of disentanglement.
Let her figure out how she wants to do it. If she wants divorce, she can do the heavy lifting to get it going.
Are you OK with a mediator? Have you previously agreed to this?
Why did you go to the spare bedroom?
How bad were your cyclical arguments and how passionate were you guys at your best?
Chaz, thanks for posting here. You’ll find great people and get great advice.
Your story seems very familiar. Many here will relate. Stay strong and keep a positive outlook.
Make sure you take care of yourself and then your kids before anything else. Take care of your work, your health, your financials, your social life, etc. as much as you can.
I’m not going to lie: your MR is not in a good place right now. From what you’re saying, it looks like she has checked out already and determined to separate. Do the readings suggested by Cadet and Job. They’ll open your eyes.
But be ready to accept that your M may (will) be over at least for now. You can only control yourself, which is an important realization in life. It may make you sad, knowing that you cannot control others, but it is a truth that will make you stronger and wiser.
Whatever you do (soul searching, C, etc.) is for you. Use the energy you have now to become a better person. Don’t do it to get her back b/c she’ll do what she wants regardless.
Stay strong. There is always light at the end. Good luck
In return she wrote back to me last week, underlining that she ‘can’t carry on anymore’ and ‘she doesn’t want to try’.
That's how she feels right now. Time will tell. You give up when you're ready to give up, not when someone else is.
However, W sent me an email about how we spend Christmas and when I want to attend Mediation to start the process of disentanglement.
Let her figure out how she wants to do it. If she wants divorce, she can do the heavy lifting to get it going.
Are you OK with a mediator? Have you previously agreed to this?
Why did you go to the spare bedroom?
How bad were your cyclical arguments and how passionate were you guys at your best?
Thank you all for replying and giving me some food for thought. As mentioned i'm deeply engrossed with deploying and implementing my learning from DR.
In answer to questions raised - I'm not really ok with Mediation as i see it as a means to pragmatically set out terms for separation and Divorce. Which in itself is fine, if i accept there is no other choice.
Arguments weren't bad, the discontent wasn't addressed properly as i can see now instead the same cycles would appear.
I went to the spare room, to be respectful of my WAS wishes to live separately under one roof. Neither of us can afford to move out on our own plus neither wanted to be misrepresented by leaving the family home/kids etc.
Having slept on your responses so far, caused me to revisit recent behaviours, correspondence etc. Whilst i agree and have said to my WAS, that our marriage in its current form is over. The cycles needed to stop. I believe i have the tools and the mindset to address my part and am returning behaviours that i hope my WAS found and find attractive that would set the course for a redefining, complete and loving M. Of course i swing from feelings of hopelesness to mild optimism - however since she wrote me what i call her 'Dear John' letter, i can see if i attach a belief that it is what she felt at the time, then the subsequent good days we have had together, as a family and on our own, alongside my change in demeanour - then am i right to feel bouyed by the upswing in her demeanour - or should i tread cautiously?
Hi Chaz,
I'm sorry you are going through this. You're doing your part to fix the sitch and keep the family together. That is noble and I'm sure however things go, it'll help you knowing you gave it your all. I'm in a similar sitch just with younger kids. Likely starting mediation soon, W telling me we are roomates for an unknown amount of time and sleeping in separate rooms. Just want to say you're not alone in this. The people here on the forum are looking out for you, hoping for the best.
I hear you on not wanting to go to mediation, I resisted myself, asking W for more time. In the end, if your W wants it, a D will happen one way or another. Mediation and working together amicably is likely to leave you with more of a chance to reconcile than fighting via lawyers. Saves money as well.
I consulted an attorney and my personal counselor and the only warning they have with mediation is that the H can lose out because of biases or state laws but also because a H may not stand up for himself, thinking he is doing the right thing giving W full custody, the house, car, etc. If YOU don't like how mediation goes, reassess and consult an attorney if need be. Many have an initial consultation for free. Just don't give up everything you love to make her happy. Just because you are going to mediation does not mean you agree with it or support the divorce. She knows where you stand. The challenge and where I'm hoping for you, is for her feelings to change and for you to become a better you.
Chaz ~ Sorry you are going through this.
Regarding mediation, generally the stance taken here is "I don't want a D, but I won't stand in your way." DB would not be to refuse mediation. DB would be to let her do all the work setting it up.
Core points out some of the things to think about with mediation. Mediation only works well when both sides are on roughly equal footing in their negotiation abilities. I highly suggest regardless of what happens that you educate yourself on the process. I consulted a L to understand my custody and financial rights. Going to a L does not mean you *want* a divorce.
There are a lot of fears involved in this process for men with kids. For the most part I think these fears are irrational. Don't back off what you would ask for because you think men are awarded less custody typically, for example.
OK, enough about educating yourself.
however since she wrote me what i call her 'Dear John' letter, i can see if i attach a belief that it is what she felt at the time, then the subsequent good days we have had together, as a family and on our own, alongside my change in demeanour - then am i right to feel bouyed by the upswing in her demeanour - or should i tread cautiously?
Detachment includes stopping all mind-reading.
Her change in attitude could mean absolutely anything. She could feel a weight lifted off her shoulders, more confident in D. She could be really enjoying the new coffee she's drinking. Who knows?
I would stop the letter-writing. My situation is a worst-case example if you want to read about it. But in general... she doesn't want to hear your thoughts. You can't win her back with a letter at this point. Heart-felt letters are the exact opposite of detachment. They are pressure, pursuit, emotional dumps on a person who doesn't want to hear how you are feeling right now. She only wants to hear how you are feeling about mediation and D because that is what SHE wants.
You mentioned conflict avoidance and going to C. These are great insights and great steps. During these sitches, we all get caught up in the logistics and the high stakes and the drama. Keep carving out that time and space to work on yourself.
Thanks all, to be clear i have only written one letter - which was based on the back of my learning in IC. It wasn't pleading, begging or anything designed to manipulate. Just understanding.
I've read and re-read a lot of the links provided above, and in the most part i'm detaching for instance i've stopped romanticising the past. It will always be true to me, and if she is honest true to her. But right now, she has re-written the past to suit her current narrative. Thats what i remind myself of. So i have to do the same, take the present as my guiding light, and adopt techniques that put my life and at the forefront. I know what i have to do, what i need to do.
Its hard though you know - the never ending processing, optimistic upswings , the tempering downswings and trying to apply an equilibrium to it all!
For instance the last few days we have spent time together as a family, talking and playing, indulging in fun. The kids love it, and to me it serves as a reminder that they are the most important thing. And off the back of this, has created a renewed outlet of us all being together at the same time. It has nurtured renewed conversations between my WAS and I, that creates optimism for me. And we have had a few laughs - something we used to do all the time. Positives breed positives right? Then i have to remind myself not to read too much into it - that i need to maintain a level approach, dampen my optimism. I know i have to because i'm teaching my self to detach.
Regarding Mediation, i'm clued up on it, i know my rights and have already prepared an outline of how I wish to proceed should we go down that path. I have requested that we postpone until New year, as the costs are prohibitive at this time of year, and feel it will pre-occupy us in a period when the Children should be and are enjoying the seasonal festivities.
Keep learning, keep applying them is my mantra.
Hi Chaz (like the name), glad you decided to join our group.
Over the last 3-4 years, now and then we would have periods of standoffs. One wouldn’t speak to the other about something, that would escalate then die down and return to normal. Each time we would say to eachother that we need to communicate more and think no more of it.
Do both of you have a little stubbornness? Just wondered, since you used the word "standoffs". I can understand why you might want to avoid some of these situations becoming worse, due to the affect your parents' divorce had on you. How much do you think resulted from you being too passive in the MR? Things may have appeared to get better, eventually, but in many cases the woman will push these unresolved issues down in her heart. She may try to get past it, but if left unresolved...….there's a risk it's going to breed resentment. And, that resentment will breed some other negative emotions that will arise at some point in the MR. The H may not realize the truth behind her anger, selfishness, rebellion, or whatever...…...but I can promise you it started with unresolved issues. Some men think that if the woman isn't talking about it and isn't acting cold/angry, then everything is better.
A H's passivity can absolutely kill his W's attraction to him. It may take a while, but it works kind of like sandpaper. Once the shine & paint is gone, it starts getting down into the wood...….slowing eating it away. In other words, her respect for you as a man is affected. Her level of respect for you is tied to her sexual desire/attraction for you as a man. When the respect drops enough, the sex will usually drop as well. The fact that the two of you had a sexually starved M, suggests that the sandpaper had gotten into the wood.
Time went on, situation remained the same and by August I realised actually this time she is absolutely serious.
Wow! So, it took all this time.... and her shutting down the sex.... before you took her seriously?
I went to the Docs and was prescribed anti- depressants, and booked myself with a C to talk about my issues.
Good!
During this time, my W had begun detaching, initiating steps for us to separate. Emails/texts/calls took a business like tone and I fell into the trap of desperately trying to cling on. Constant ILY’s reminders of what we had, marriage vows – you name it, I did it!
Turns out that was the worst thing. I was pressing the wrong buttons. It has steeled her resolve that she is right.
She's right about what? That she needs to end the M?
I am fully committed to my M, and even more so as reading DR has resonated so deeply within me. I love my W, without question. Unconditionally infact. And I have realised that I was placing conditions upon her to fulfil my happiness.
I want to respond to your statement about being fully committed to your M, and how deeply you feel love for your W. You may feel this is the time she needs to be assured of how much you love her and how far you are willing to go to prove your commitment. However, this is not what she wants to hear or see, at the moment. Your W wants to experience freedom. If she is talking mediation, it's not b/c she wants to see you buckle down working on the MR (whatever working may mean to you). I don't mean this to sound harshly, but I say it from a place of experience and what I've learned over the past years. The more you crowd her, the more you push her away. It's like a dance. You step back, it draws her toward you...…..you step forward, she'll step back.
Don't misunderstand me. You can be committed to working on a plan of action that might bust a divorce. You can even be committed to honoring your vows. It won't bust a divorce, if she is set on getting one.
It wasn't your lack of commitment that was the problem. Do you get what I am saying? It wasn't a lack of love that drove a wedge between the two of you. I have yet to see a LBH profess his enduring love and commitment to a WAW/MLCW/WW, and it stop an impending divorce. That's not to say I haven't seen other steps taken to bust a divorce. I'm not trying to take the wind out of your sail. I just want you to get the right mindset about this whole process, in order to do the best you can to save your family.
It is going to take time, and things will look a lot worse before they begin to look better. Some couples physically separate, and even divorce, before they finally reunite. You have to be determined to learn what works and what doesn't work. For example, you said you've read a lot of self help books. If you've read very many books about improving the MR, then you may be charged up to become "Super Husband". You'll put on your SH cape at the end of your work day to do all the chores around the house, cook the meals, take care of the kids, etc. The problem with this approach is that it does not work in saving the M, or even improving it. The H who does his share, and at times even a little more than his share........is okay. It is never okay for him to do it all, everyday, and leave nothing for his wife (who is quickly gaining a sense of entitlement). That's just one example of what doesn't work.
Here's the thing, Chaz. You will probably want to put into action those things you
should have done the past 16 years, but due to the delayed timing..... and the mindset your W has developed...…..
those actions will not produce the results you may currently desire. Therefore, the first thing you need to do is focus on the man. This is your time to grow. This is the time to reinvent yourself, and change how you see yourself as a man...….thus affecting how she will see you. You must show self respect before others will respect you.
I encourage you to read the homework page Cadet sent you, and post every chance you get.
Hi Chaz, fellow UK-er here. Sorry to hear about your situation.
The worst thing you can do is mind-read. It will drive you mad. What's she saying to others about me? What's she thinking? Does she miss 'us'? Stop it. I know it's hard to stop it. You want her to be crying into her pillow and missing you. Don't go there. As others have said, focus on yourself.
Good that you started counselling. I started in May and have finished end November. It was amazing. It will change you for the better and help you analyse and understand things you do in a lot of detail. Take it seriously and you will get lots out of it.
You cannot control her. Don't try. I tried with my W - didn't work. We're getting to a house sale stage, and she just needs ot apply for the decree absolute in a few weeks. Just control you - improve your outlook on life. DO things - you must have a list of a couple of things you wanted to do but couldn't, not because your W forbid you to do them, but because 'life' got in the way. Do those things now. Take your time with them, enjoy them. Catch up with old mates, even if it's just texting here and there. Put in lots of extra effort at work. And stay off Facebook - or if you must go on, hide your spouse from your newsfeed. Post on there when you're having a good time occasionally, say once a fortnight.
Don't stay at home and feel sorry for yourself. But do allow yourself to feel - anger, pain, hurt, etc. But don't show your spouse if at all possible.
The advice on this forum for me has been amazing. My story is by no means over. You will get lots of advice here. Take it all and consider everything. If you're going to write a letter or email, or have an important conversation planned, run it by here first.
Evening all.
Firstly Sandi2 - Thank you so much for the amazing thought you have put into responding to me. I have read it dozens of times today and i can't believe how much it resonates. In this period of introspection i have learnt a great deal about myself, particularly my passivity. I have been guilty of it and when i look back i recognise a lot of times where i have taken a back seat in our MR. That has been hard to reconcile with. In my letter to her, validating her feelings, recognising her reasons for wanting to separate i didn't place any pressure on her nor did i ask anything of her. Just wanted her to really know i understood. Not necessarily agree but understand nevertheless.
Something interesting - to me at least - is i believed she would read it and then destroy it or place in a draw - but its been a few weeks since i gave it to her and today whilst she was switching handbags for some event, i noticed she had been carrying it around with her. And she transferred it to her current bag. As others have cautioned, i am trying not to mind read, or question any behaviour but i guess i wondered about my belief of what she would do with it. Something or nothing, who knows right?!
DaB35 - I'm trying to GAL. I know i have let things slide. Only now i notice just how much. I have this internal battle in my head going on, trying to stop thinking about what has happened, what is happening with MR and forcing myself to focus on me. Another trait i've discovered about myself is that i try to please those around me, sacrificing my needs. Not that i see anything wrong with sacrifices, it shows a willingness to defer satisfaction but again have learnt by doing so my resentment would manifest in negative ways. This period has really opened my eyes to who i am, what i have allowed to accept in others as well as myself.
Today has been a test. We have talked about Christmas, and i said id rather talk face to face rather than over email. We have been having some really positive and quality family time lately and in recognition of that, I requested that we spend it together as a family. Her response was yes just the four of us. I left it at that. I didn't want to get drawn on anything else, and have since come to bed writing this!
So yes Sandi2 - You are right, as i walked away it was with a feeling that i should be doing something to demonstrate my commitment, my desire to change the status quo, to hug, to hold, just a touch - anything. But i let it go. I passed my own test, and told myself - You need to grow. You need to rediscover the real you.
I tell you what though - this is hard, so hard.
Struggling with my thoughts today. I'm in a bit of turmoil as to what to do to help myself in this situation. We are both living under same roof, for my part because i want to keep the family together and for her part because i suspect she doesn't want to be seen as the person splitting the family apart.
My thoughts are that i should ask her to leave and find somewhere else in the new year (we have agreed Christmas will spent as a family), to allow us some space and if i'm honest i want her to feel the pain of what living with a split family will be like and all that entails. Harsh i know, but at the moment she is getting her cake and eating it. I meanwhile am trying to deploy and ingrain DB techniques, adopting LRT maintaining a cheerful demeanour. But inside i'm torn.
The other side to the coin, is i know i need to get away from her. Im constantly fighting a pining for her, whilst DB'ing and being around each other is worrying me that we will slip into friend zone. I don't want to be her friend. I'm not friends with any exes. I don't need her, but i want her. My worry is if i start looking for somewhere to rent (until either house is sold or unlikely as it maybe - we reconcile) , it places me at a disadvantage - i will be seen to be the one walking away. I'm in conflict with needing to let go to break the status quo - but at the same time maintain my rights and in my eyes show my kids that i'm not leaving THEM. That i'm fighting for them, me and everything else.
Any thoughts gratefully received!
C,
You can ask her to leave but you can't make her leave. You should not move out because you will regret it. IHS is tough but you have to try to detach the best you can and muscle through it.
Whatever you decide to do, do not move out. She is the one w/the problem, therefore she should be the one to move. Since Christmas is right around the corner, I would wait and have a discussion with her right after Christmas and advise her that things aren't working out and it's creating a lot of tension and stress in the home for your children. I would then suggest that maybe she needs to find a place to move to since she's unhappy being a wife and mother to her family. After that discussion, walk away and allow her to mull it over. You can still utilize the DB tactics while she's "out to lunch" and continue focusing on you and your children.
I had a very similar situation w/my xh 20 years ago. He was very unhappy and he had told me on December 1st that he was planning to move out after Christmas. The tension and stress were so thick that it made our lives a living h@ll trying to keep up appearances. I came home the next day from work and told him that he could leave and not wait until after Christmas. He sat up on the couch and cried like a baby and stated he didn't know what to do. I left him there and went about my business. He left on the 13th while I was at work, leaving everything behind but a few clothes. How did I feel about it? The tension was gone, but the holiday season was ruined for that year...but I can assure you, as the months went by, things got better in my home. No more walking on eggshells, I knew where the money was going, I didn't have to beg him to do things, etc. I never regretted opening the door and letting him know that I was okay if he left.
Bottom line, you have to take care of you and your children. The tension and stress are there and trust me, the kids are watching everything you say or do and wondering what is going on. There is no harm in opening the door as she is the one that will need to decide whether she steps over the threshold or stays in the home. Sometimes, we have to give the option of staying or going to them.
Just my two cents.
Update...
Well the last couple of days has revealed a turnaround in W behaviour towards me. Last week i was reporting that time at home and around eachother was better, even fun , that family time with Kids was a togetherness. Now yesterday its back to coldness towards me, etc etc. My DB'ing is at work though, so i was kind of expecting it and not reacting. We just had an email exchange about what was happening over Christmas amongst day to day stuff.
Email exchange:
W - Re Brighton – I don’t think it’s fair on anyone to take kids down Boxing Day but wanted to ask whether you would mind if I took the kids Sunday down to Brighton and overnight, back on 23rd? I won’t see M&D down there as they are going Christmas Eve but I don’t particularly want to be whizzing back Christmas Eve either….
Me : I thought we had already agreed this was going to happen?
W : We hadn’t agreed Brighton, I said I didn’t think it was fair taking them Boxing Day and you didn’t say anything…..
Me: Maybe I’m mis -remembering, correct me If I’m wrong - Re Boxing day You mentioned 26th is when (her Brother) was having their Christmas Day so (his daughter) could be there. I then came back to you and said as you weren’t able to see your parents you could always go if you wanted to. You said no its probably not fair, then said ok maybe we’ll go down on the 22nd/23rd. I said of course no problem. This is what I meant by my understanding of what we had agreed upon.
W: Well my take on the conversation is very different but there you go. It’s fine – I didn’t think it was fair on you but anyway.
I have asked (Her Brother) whether he would mind if we went down Sunday – if he can’t accommodate then we will go Boxing Day.
Me: I think its best from now on to keep agreements on e-mail then there is no room for a different take to be taken. Yes you are right it isn’t fair on anyone, but I also know its important for you and the kids to see family. I will never stand in the way of that – hence why I offered the opportunity to you.
I believe i was fair in my responses, maybe a little emotion, but not cold? However, nothing received since, which is usually a sign that she has been baiting me, and i haven't risen to it.
Is this an example of the pursuit/distancing at work? That she was getting comfortable with our time together, and perhaps she has shared this with her enablers (her Parents, and friends) and there is a definition that she is not in control and by returning to wantaway demeanor then its re-drawing a line in the sand?
Either way she has just copied me in on a mail with the mediation service to say that She and I have agreed for a date to be confirmed in January. (UK Mediation is usually devising a pragmatic approach (finances/Parenting plans, ect etc) to separation/divorce, not a reconciliation service at all) Whilst i'm not agreeing with mediation, i am not fighting it. If W wants this process then she does the leg work.
In preparartion to ask her to move out, i wonder if i should communicate this over e-mail?
I'm trying to find a way that expresses and recognises that being under the same roof is making things tense and stressful. That for our own mental health we change the status quo. I think the new year would be the best time, so the children don't associate this time of year with upheaval/upset etc. I want to word it so that it is clear to her that she should move out as she has brought about this sitch, but be mindful of being respectful to her role as a Mother. She is a great Mum, and i don't want to deepen any resentment towards me!
How have others living under the same roof approached this?
Journal
Had a few days of reflection time.
I've been reading numerous threads, each having a different story but ultimately similar behaviors. I've read No More Mr Nice Guy, on the recommendation of many on here and also, incidentally, my C. My goodness me it was like looking at myself in the mirror and finally seeing who i am, who i have become. I demonstrated so many NGS traits it was a real awakening. It answered why i've been so passive, not wishing to rock the boat everything that will ultimately diminish respect from a WAW.
And thats the thing, i have always felt my opinion doesnt matter, go with the flow kinda Guy. But the resentment built up and manifested in negative ways, often completely unrelated to the moment in time.
I have been GAL, i have been DB'ing but, having thought about it, with no real sense of purpose other than to get myself through this period.
Now i have my plan. I need and want to GAL, i need to and want to DB the hell out of everything. I need to stop the passiveness, to stand up for myself, make myself heard. Be a bit more self serving, care about my needs first. These are all things i can do, because i know they are there, they are all needs i have pushed away in favour of putting what i felt was other peoples needs first. So time to cut the resentment, this is day 1 of my journey.
Merry Christmas everyone!
Today has been hard. Living IHS I knew today would be different but not as hard as it has been.
Sleeping in separate rooms meant the kids didn’t pile in with their stockings. Instead it was awkward for them as they didn’t know who to see first. A moment that seems insignificant amongst 364 other days but huge on this day.
In all honesty I struggled the whole day, I forgot about db’ing, 180s, LRT etc. The whole day I got caught up in the thinking that this is the last time for everything Christmas as a family. And it hurts. I miss my wife I miss my lover, I miss being able to just be with her, I miss everything. She gave me a hug, the first in 3 months since BD, it was all I could do to not fall apart. I’ve been longing for her touch, yet when she did I told myself it means nothing to her. That I remain alert to no expectations, no meaning, just nothing.
And this is my struggle, the counter intuitiveness of me wanting to say what my heart wants, whilst on the outside I guess sub consciously reacting in a cordial manner. No emotion etc.
Several times I had to take myself away to the garden to compose myself. I feel that I have taken 20 steps backwards, and fallen off the wagon so to speak. Can anyone relate? Or indeed give me a 2x4 to spin me out of this?!
What you are feeling is very normal for someone who is just starting out on this journey. It will be one step forward, two steps back. It is very difficult when you have an in house separation because they are around you most of the time and yet, they are like roommates.
You did the right thing by going to the garden to compose yourself. You will get no 2x4s from me today. This holiday is extremely difficult for those who are brand new to the world of the unknown.
All you can do is breathe and dig deeper for patience and just know that tomorrow will be just a wee bit better. Keep the focus on you and the children.
Hang in there!
I can relate 100%. I'm in the middle of an in-house separation that's going on 6 months (3 months in separate bedrooms) and today was tough. I had many of the same thoughts about this being our last Christmas under the same roof etc.
My own thread is here, if it's of any interest to you or others -- I don't want to hijack yours, but it shows you where my perspective is coming from:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2876442&page=1Don't beat yourself up for your failings. I failed at least 2x this Christmas, in terms of maintaining frame. I tried to give her a hug last night (Christmas Eve) after we'd finished wrapping up the gifts for the kids and were heading to our separate bedrooms around 1am -- she let me hug her but kept it "standoffish." Then tonight, after Christmas Day was over and the kids were in bed, she was heading up to her room for bed while I was in the living room and she said "Goodnight" and I said "Merry Christmas," she replied "Merry Christmas" ... then I stupidly said "I love you" as she turned her back and walked away. Ooosh.
My emotions were also all over the place today. I think it's to be expected with Christmas and children around. Stay strong, brother.
Hi Chaz,
How are you doing? I am familiar with the difficulty you find yourself in. It is unlike any other pain. Keep putting one foot in front of the other, even when the steps feel uncertain. Be patient with your sitch and with yourself.
As Job mentioned, these feelings are all very normal. Considering the circumstances, you are handling things well.
Hi all,
Have been reflecting on the past few days. Christmas Day was hard, but now I’me feeling ok about it. Once I had journaled my thoughts it was a weight lifted. I was encouraged by the replies that it’s ok to feel these thoughts emotions, it’s what I do with them. Old me would have fixated on them with negative behaviour, thoughts and attitude. I speak to myself everyday, reminding myself to use PMA, be the lighthouse, be the energy for myself and by extension those around me.
This got me thinking though, whilst continuing to stick to LRT and dBing it occurred to me that there is a 180 that I haven’t managed. It seems to be counter intuitive with the above techniques. I think a complaint my W would justifiably level at me is that I was emotionally withdrawn and I wonder how I can express this via action rather than words? For it to be a change, I would need to be calling her or texting first instead of the reactive state I currently and probably always have done. It’s a conundrum I’m stuck for any idea that wont undo any other changes. Could do with some guidance!
Thanks as always
C,
It’s very common for the lbs to use any excuse possible to try to pursue. It’s also known as the illusion of action. It is never and I mean ever a good idea to pursue someone who is rejecting you. It is a display of low value.
Work on your other 180s.
Forgive the stream of consciousness, feeling melancholy today.
Have been thinking of the dynamics currently in play and where my sitch is in terms of journey. I think i'm in a bit of a fog, amongst others, feeling weighed down by W family interactions with me, or rather lack of them. I always felt part of her family and would always be included and welcomed to any family event, but ever since BD they have excluded me from practically everything. My W takes the kids to see them, upon invite, but any invite is not extended to me. To be fair as things are i would probably decline a few but not all. I understand they will be naturally siding with my W, but i thought i had a good enough relationship with them to merit at least an enquiring 'how are you doing?'. But nothing. Its like i've been erased.
,
I've also noticed that certain mutual friends have also done the same. I wonder whether they are enabling my W, by virtue of what version of our story my W has told them and they are feeding her view of our M. It has made me question whether they are worth my time and thoughts. Which then leads me down the rabbit warren of thoughts of R. Would i be able to accept their friendships and family inclusion, when at the moment i would feel they are two-faced?
Anyway an update on my sitch:
Since Christmas, we have had a lot of family time together, Boxing Day we went to friends and spent the day and evening with them, it was fun and relaxing for everyone, lots of laughs and anyone observing would in no way believe we are leading IHS lives. From my perspective, i didn't really think about the moments of the day, i just enjoyed them and carried myself with PMA, and without probably realizing that i was being the person i'm meant to be. I guess this is a result of adopting DB, and detaching from analyzing every interaction.
NYE passed without incident, we allowed the kids to stay up to see NY in, perhaps this allowed a reduced focus on my W and I to do what we have always done, which is to spend with Friends, enjoy drinks, kiss and hug etc. Instead it was hugs for the kids, but nothing from W. I didn't attempt to hug or embrace my W. And that was that.
New Years Day, my W went into cleaning mode. She has done this in a passive aggressive way before BD, a not so subtle notice to me that she wants things done because my way of doing it wasn't right, or she was taking herself away to re enable distance between us. Who knows?
I'm fairly certain she has questioned her decision to BD me, maybe just through subconsciously absorbing different behavioral patterns,however nothing explicit and am mindful that i shouldn't really read anything into it and this has borne out in the very little interaction we've had since.
All in all i recognise i'm not detaching as much as i should, but happy when i look back at the old me and see how much DBing i've employed since and the differences i notice in myself as i handle this roller coaster. I'm a bit more measured rather reacting on emotions which is a huge step for me.
Forgive the stream of consciousness, feeling melancholy today.
Have been thinking of the dynamics currently in play and where my sitch is in terms of journey. I think i'm in a bit of a fog, amongst others, feeling weighed down by W family interactions with me, or rather lack of them. I always felt part of her family and would always be included and welcomed to any family event, but ever since BD they have excluded me from practically everything. My W takes the kids to see them, upon invite, but any invite is not extended to me. To be fair as things are i would probably decline a few but not all. I understand they will be naturally siding with my W, but i thought i had a good enough relationship with them to merit at least an enquiring 'how are you doing?'. But nothing. Its like i've been erased.
Understandable. I'd feel the exact same way. However, as someone who was recently on the family side with my niece leaving her husband, it is a tough situation. We loved her husband. He was a great guy, and was mostly innocent in the breakup of their marriage. Was a perfect H? Well, who could be? Let alone a guy in his early 20s? But he was a great guy and we all care for him very much. But are afraid to extend his pain. Maybe he wants to move on and to hear from her family would be difficult. It is a difficult thing. If you had a good relationship then rest assured that you are on their minds. They feel for you. And if they are praying folks they are praying for you.
,
I've also noticed that certain mutual friends have also done the same. I wonder whether they are enabling my W, by virtue of what version of our story my W has told them and they are feeding her view of our M. It has made me question whether they are worth my time and thoughts. Which then leads me down the rabbit warren of thoughts of R. Would i be able to accept their friendships and family inclusion, when at the moment i would feel they are two-faced?
Same dynamic with mutual friends. They are in a bad situation, trying to juggle both sides. Those that were closer to her will lean towards her. Those that were to you will lean towards you. This typically will break along gender lines. Unless a mutual male friend has interest in her, for obvious reasons. Go easy on them, they are doing the best that they can. But yes, I would be very guarded around mutual friends because likely anything you say will go right back to her.
Anyway an update on my sitch:
Since Christmas, we have had a lot of family time together, Boxing Day we went to friends and spent the day and evening with them, it was fun and relaxing for everyone, lots of laughs and anyone observing would in no way believe we are leading IHS lives. From my perspective, i didn't really think about the moments of the day, i just enjoyed them and carried myself with PMA, and without probably realizing that i was being the person i'm meant to be. I guess this is a result of adopting DB, and detaching from analyzing every interaction.
DBing works....even if not to save your MR! Good job here. My dynamic was very similar to yours. It can be confusing for the LBS and cause you to pursue and pressure. Stay the course and believe in the process.
NYE passed without incident, we allowed the kids to stay up to see NY in, perhaps this allowed a reduced focus on my W and I to do what we have always done, which is to spend with Friends, enjoy drinks, kiss and hug etc. Instead it was hugs for the kids, but nothing from W. I didn't attempt to hug or embrace my W. And that was that.
Good here again! NO pursuit and pressure means NO pursuit and pressure! In my sitch, my W bowed out at the last minute to going over to some friends. So there was no temptation to lean in. But for obvious reasons that would be the wrong move.
New Years Day, my W went into cleaning mode. She has done this in a passive aggressive way before BD, a not so subtle notice to me that she wants things done because my way of doing it wasn't right, or she was taking herself away to re enable distance between us. Who knows?
Slight 2x4 here. No mnd reading! She wanted to clean so she cleaned. No need to read more into it.
I'm fairly certain she has questioned her decision to BD me, maybe just through subconsciously absorbing different behavioral patterns,however nothing explicit and am mindful that i shouldn't really read anything into it and this has borne out in the very little interaction we've had since.
She wouldn't be human, but a robot, if she didn't. But again, mind reading will get you no where. How do you avoid mind reading? Focus on you! Right now you have a microscope hyper focused on her. Take your focus off her and put it on you.
All in all i recognise i'm not detaching as much as i should, but happy when i look back at the old me and see how much DBing i've employed since and the differences i notice in myself as i handle this roller coaster. I'm a bit more measured rather reacting on emotions which is a huge step for me.
Detachment is a process, not a task. You don't just flip a switch. However, I love this paragraph! This paragraph is all about YOU. And that is what you should be focusing on now.
Thanks Steve, i needed that!!
I can see your sitch turned round relatively quickly. Do you recall any behaviours from your W, that in hindsight led you to believe there was a chance at MR 2.0. The reason i ask, is that in DR book Michelle asks for me to notate DB techniques i'm employing and to record what impact they are having, which i find to be in conflict of changing things just for myself.
How do you maintain detachment and yet seemingly have to engage enough in W behaviour to take note or be aware of potential thoughts/actions from W of R. Or is it simply that we are becoming so attuned to our situations that sub-consciously we are doing it anyway?!
I don't know about anyone else, but i come on here to update myself on everyones sitch, i don't feel i can offer any wise words yet but my support for everyone here is true. I find it cathartic in a way, knowing that we are all feeling the same, we want to better ourselves and we want to be the best people we can be.
Had a small interaction with PIL(first since BD) whilst dropping off kids for the day (last day of Christmas Holidays). In the back of my mind i am thinking they have erased me from their lives, as mentioned in above post, consequently i was painfully aware of my outward demeanor and that i appeared aloof as opposed to being positive, happy. I was annoyed with myself. I guess i need to remember this for the next time!
No, I saw no behaviors from her to suggest MR 2.0. There were moments where she seemed unsure of herself as far as moving forward with her plan. But words ("I am done!") and actions (starting multiple dating profiles on online dating sites, sending nude photos to EA OM, etc). Through all of January '18, and most of Feb '18, I prepared myself for the worst.
I get questions like this a lot. Two things happened that I think really turned my sitch around. The second one by itself wouldn't have worked, but in concert with the first one it helped reinforce.
The 1st was that a friend of hers at church pushed really hard for us to attend a marriage retreat with them. This friend and her husband had no idea that we were going through a rough patch, it was just a yearly marriage retreat and they really wanted us to go. My W got bombarded for several hours over 2 days about marriage in relation to the teachings in the Bible. At first it made her feel "stuck". But I think it also made her realize that with the changes I had been making she really needed to give the marriage another shot.
The 2nd was she agreed to attend counseling with me. It started as IC, but the IC suggested she come along for the first session. That way if it transitioned into MC she wouldn't feel like it was one-sided with the IC having heard only my side. She ended up going every time I went, though I would characterize the first several sessions as IC for me with her present. I think that showed her that I was serious about making positive changes in myself. The IC with her present really turned into a "what is wrong with Steve85 and how do we fix it", with the exception of one session where my W was the focus and the IC really delved deeply into some emotional territory from my W's past. But other than that it was IC for me with her present. And then it transitioned after the marriage retreat into MC as my W started to say she was wanting to stay.
I wouldn't dwell too much on the taking note of what works and doesn't. To me that is more of an organic thing. Concentrate on DBing well, then when you get to a point where you are GAL, 180ing, and becoming emotionally detached, start taking regular assessments. Say every month.
The problem is that sometimes things are working when it looks like it isn't. "I did a good job being detached and my W is getting angry about it!" Many, if they assessed things on a day-by-day basis would say "detachment isn't working!" When in reality it is. The anger is because the WAW is feeling the loss of control over the LBH that she has become used to. See how easy it is to misread if it is working?
Also, most LBSs struggle with DBing until several weeks or even months have elapsed. Really what GAL, 180s and detachment is meant for is to fix your frame of mind, get you into a place where you aren't smothering and pushing the WAS away, and just to start living your life. Whether a DB technique works or not isn't about how it is affecting your WAW but how it is affecting you! LBSs find that once they start DBing well, the feeling of immediate doom, gloom and hopelessness eases, regardless of what their WAS is doing.
Hi all,
We have mediation booked for Jan 20th, which is being driven at my W behest. I'm making her to the leg work on how she wants things to pan out. She has just sent me the below e-mail:
"Hi
I was wondering whether you wanted to have a chat before our mediation appointment about how we can possibly sort things out in terms of house / finances.
I appreciate we need guidance, that is what the mediation is for however the appointments are expensive so whatever we can sort together, amicably without the need of extra appointments would probably benefit both of us….
If you want to leave it to mediation that’s fine – I just thought I would ask the question…."
So far we have split finances 50/50 in terms of household bills/mortgage/insurances etc and pay these from our Joint Account. We have had the House valued and she has indicated that she wishes to buy me out of the house (although i have no idea how she will fund it, but not my problem), however i'm hesitant to agree or even discuss this in view of my wish to R.
My immediate thoughts on responding to this would be leave it until our first mediation, and then discuss after (if at all amicably) what we can to sort as much as we can.
However, i don't want to impede or damage any potential for R by replying from an emotional state just now so would welcome any thoughts, guidance etc that would help me acknowledge, that recognises the path she wishes to follow for now. I'm starting to question whether i should just throw in the towel, give up......but i don't want to.
So far we have split finances 50/50 in terms of household bills/mortgage/insurances etc and pay these from our Joint Account. We have had the House valued and she has indicated that she wishes to buy me out of the house (although i have no idea how she will fund it, but not my problem), however i'm hesitant to agree or even discuss this in view of my wish to R.
You can't stop the D. Unfortunately it only takes one party to make D happen. Your attitude should be "I don't want this, but I know you do and I'm not going to stand in your way." So you don't help with the process, but you don't impede it either. So if she wants to discuss the settlement then discuss it. The conversation won't be any easier in front of a mediator. A mediator is only there to help you come to an agreement, they are not an MC and they are not going to try and stop the process. So if you can come to an agreement without a mediator then it would be in your best interests to do so.
However, i don't want to impede or damage any potential for R by replying from an emotional state just now so would welcome any thoughts, guidance etc that would help me acknowledge, that recognises the path she wishes to follow for now. I'm starting to question whether i should just throw in the towel, give up......but i don't want to.
Letting the D happen is not throwing in the towel. You need to take a long-term view. Potential recon is way down the road, possibly years. A lot will happen between now and then, possibly including D. Giving her time and space and allowing her to pursue D is not giving up, it actually may be the most effective thing you can do to help her get in a position where she might start missing you and working on herself.
AS is dead on, as usual. D does not mean no R. Common mistake that LBSs make. "But if he goes through with the D then that ruins our chances at R!' No it doesn't. D is often a step in the process. Many couples together today were married, got D'd, then later got back together and married again! It happens more than people think.
In fact, you can use the D process as a step towards R. How? By being as accommodating as possible. Most LBH's especially think "If I accommodate her then I will get screwed!" Once you make D about you vs. her, then it gets contentious. Then it gets to the point where there are deep wounds and bitter resentments.
Its like the movie When Harry Met Sally. Harry, watching his friends talk about moving in with each other, says "Helen (his exW) and I started like this. But then 10 years later you find yourselves fighting over this dish. This $5 dish will cost you $1000 talking to the law firm of That's Mine, This Is Hers!"
While humorous....it makes a good point. Bend over backwards to accommodate her. Do not die on a hill not worth dying on. Pick your battles, but then even fight those with kindness. Kill her with kindness in the D process. That will make a much better lasting impression than fighting her over every knickknack. Remember, it is all stuff. And just money.
Anyway, keep your chin up. It usually always gets worse before it gets better. Keep your eye on the ultimate goal and try to minimize doing things that will hurt your future chances.
I don't know why LBS think that dragging their feet on the D helps with the situation.
I don't know why LBS think that dragging their feet on the D helps with the situation.
Because most LBSs fear D. Until they can turn it around and see that D is not a finality, they will continue to fear it, and do whatever they can do avoid it.
spoused2,
I've been following your postings and have been wondering about your situation. How about starting a thread of your own so that we know what your situation is. We encourage new posters to start their own threads so that we become familiar with their situations and then we can post on their respective threads, I.e., just as we encourage them to visit other threads and post.
spoused2,
I've been following your postings and have been wondering about your situation. How about starting a thread of your own so that we know what your situation is. We encourage new posters to start their own threads so that we become familiar with their situations and then we can post on their respective threads, I.e., just as we encourage them to visit other threads and post.
I will. Once I get off moderation.
spoused2,
I've been following your postings and have been wondering about your situation. How about starting a thread of your own so that we know what your situation is. We encourage new posters to start their own threads so that we become familiar with their situations and then we can post on their respective threads, I.e., just as we encourage them to visit other threads and post.
I will. Once I get off moderation.
That would help you get off moderation.
Actually, go ahead and set up a thread of your own. I'll put in the request to get you off moderation today.
Actually, go ahead and set up a thread of your own. I'll put in the request to get you off moderation today.
Its not a requirement to have a thread however because of the mechanics of how it works it makes it easier for us to
get you off when you have a main thread.
I totally agree w/Cadet. Also, by having a thread of your own, you can track your progress and those questions that you may have can be addressed on your thread and you can go back to your thread at any time to review the answers as you travel your own path.
Because of your comment about being on moderation and not starting a thread until you are off moderation, where you on this forum previously? The reason that I ask is that most posters do not care if they are still on moderation or not when they start a thread. If so, do you happen to remember your former posting name? I would be more than happy to do the research and bring your last posting up for the posters to read unless you have a new issue going on in your life.
Its like the movie When Harry Met Sally. Harry, watching his friends talk about moving in with each other, says "Helen (his exW) and I started like this. But then 10 years later you find yourselves fighting over this dish. This $5 dish will cost you $1000 talking to the law firm of That's Mine, This Is Hers!"
LOL! So true! Also reminds me of that photo of the two people on the floor of a divorce court splitting up their beanie baby collection one by one. All that focus on objects that a year or two later were completely worthless. I mean I fully support people trying to come to an equitable solution, it should not be skewed to one party at the expense of the other. But I read a quote somewhere years ago- "no party is made whole in divorce", and that is where people get tripped up. Some people think they should be "made whole" and restored to 100% income and ownership of belongings at the expense of their spouse. It just doesn't work that way, you've got to be willing to compromise and negotiate. Sometimes you are and your spouse isn't, and that's when mediation should be looked into.
AS/ Steve - You are both right of course. I am fearing the D. Its a conditioning of society though. Divorce sounds final, and for a lot of people it is. What i need to do is swallow the fear, own it and realise it is a path that my W probably needs to take before she can find her happiness again. Whilst not specifically mentioned in correspondence with her or indeed F2F, its something i need to be prepared for. I'm not exactly going to embrace it, however i will approach it with calm, and kindness. I'm glad i posted my fear though, because i do feel empowered to think. I've been mentally preparing a response to my W email, which having read your posts above have me cause to change my approach.
I will post in here a first draft, for critique, because whilst i am in this situation i know everything coming my way is likely to be worse before it gets better, there is also an opportunity for me to grow, solidify my changes, challenge my instincts and show the best version of me. Its action.
Following up on my W email, i'm proposing the following:
Dear W,
I agree that for the benefit of reducing costs it will be good to minimise any outside involvement.
As much as i don't want any of this, i know that you do and will not stand in your way.
To that end, in reality sadly, our previous chat resulted in a different take on the conversation being taken and i want to ensure that we are clearly in agreement over next steps.
In this case i think we will benefit more from having joint mediation first, in order that we have a framework to work with and perhaps if i can be sure there is no misinterpretation, then we can chat and move forward. In the meantime any discussion on this matter, i think best to keep on e-mail.
Chaz70
Looking for crtique here, i believe this conveys a willingness to discuss but ensure that my boundaries remain intact and that there is no room for any misinterpretation. My W has form on this! Also whilst she is driving this process, i want to ensure that i'm standing up for myself. (A major 180 for me, as i used to bow down to her requests - a NGS trait!)
Let me know your thoughts
Dear W,
I agree that for the benefit of reducing costs it would be good to minimise any outside involvement. For the record, I still think we should work on the marriage rather than end it, but that is ultimately up to you. Our previous discussion did highlight that we do have some disagreements in how to proceed. There will be a lot of benefit from having an initial joint mediation. Hopefully, that will provide a framework to work from and potentially could mean that we could work together on our own from that point forward.
In the meantime any discussion on this matter, i think best to keep on e-mail.
Chaz70
Hi all,
Been a while since I last updated. Since sending above email, there has been no talk about it. Not even a response to acknowledge. I will update with more detail as I’m on my phone right now preparing for mediation in an hour. This is just exchanging financial details, potential living expenditure on the basis of 2 households etc and for the mediation service to get a feel for where we are at in terms of assets. Nothing binding at this stage, I imagine will provide a framework to work with.
Not feeling great about this, it’s a step towards divorce. My W has been trying to bait me recently with remarks I think designed to extract a negative reaction from me. No doubt to justify her narrative. I am just brushing them or ignoring them which is not what she would expect.
I’m reminding myself that this is due process, and not the end yet. It can all be stopped, but I’m also feeling sad it’s come to this. Any reminders that will serve me well today and in the mediation session?
Not feeling great about this, it’s a step towards divorce.
Often S and even D have to happen to pave the way for recon. The future has not been written yet.
My W has been trying to bait me recently with remarks I think designed to extract a negative reaction from me. No doubt to justify her narrative. I am just brushing them or ignoring them which is not what she would expect.
I would say you are correct and your reaction is perfect.
Any reminders that will serve me well today and in the mediation session?
Be polite and respectful but firm. Do not give concessions simply hoping she will see you in a better light. When LBS's stand up for themselves in S and D proceedings it actually gains them some respect. When they roll over and try to appease their WAS then she has even less respect for him.
Good luck, you can do this!
How are things going, Chaz?
Hi all, and thanks Sandi for checking up!
Have been on the board following everyones journeys, and will continue to do so.
As for me? I think i'm done.
In the last couple of weeks, things have crystallized to the extent i have been questioning what i want, what changes are being enforced on me by W and all the rest of it.
We went to mediation 20th Jan, since then my W has been on a mission to try and move things on quickly with the result that one of us is looking for somewhere to live. Net result is she has funding in place to take on mortgage, whilst i settle elsewhere, get into the groove of co-parenting and kids get used to spending 50/50 time with us both. Prior to now neither of us had this option, hence remaining IHS, however i believe she has significant funding help from her parents.
Before now, i was in the place of standing, being the lighthouse to essentially enable an option to R whilst IHS. Now, i'm not sure i want to R, throughout DBing, GAL and detaching i have monitored my increasing ambivalence to any related to my W. I have noted particularly that she has not once asked about my depression, the steps i have taken with it, the counselling nor attempted to even understand the affect it had on me and consequently our R. Since BD she has consistently used it as a tool to bad mouth me, I understand a WAS will re-write history to suit the current narrative, but the complete lack of any empathy shows me a person that really doesn't care. And as i look back i also realise that i have lived with someone who is incredibly self absorbed, selfish and who will only act out of self interest. These traits are even more pronounced now.
I'm now finding myself actually wanting to leave, a mixture of guilt that the kids will now lead a life with parents living separately but consoling myself i did my best to hold on. I just can't do it anymore. I have detached so much, that i can't stand the limbo. Of course i'm mindful that this position of walking away might seem appealing to a WAS, but in my case i don't believe it will do so and even if it did i would make her jump through hoops to even consider anything remotely close to a R.
Reading this all back, i just feel empty. It hasn't turned out how i thought it might, but i'm ok with that now. Who knows what is around the corner, good times i hope, certainly i look forward to spending quality time with my kids and do my best for them without this black cloud hanging over me.
I will stay on the board, because so many people have been so amazing, so helpful and restored my faith in humanity that people really do care. You are a special bunch of guys/gals on here and hopefully i can pay it forward with someone elses story.
Chaz