Hi - newbie here. Novella:
Brief overview of situation:
W (me): 35
H: 27
Married 1 year, together 2 before that, so 3 total
no kids
This first year of marriage has been stressful. I got a new job the month before we were married (09/18) that I knew would be high stress for a year (fun though), we got a new dog (11/18), and built a new house/moved into it (08/19).
I was previously married ages 26-29, D initiated by me because he was an abusive alcoholic. I gave him many chances to turn it around, went to counseling even when I was mostly done, but ultimately, nothing changed so I'd had enough. D filed 07/13. H has no previous marriage.
In the past year, I haven't been dealing with my stress well. Stress eating, becoming obsessed with cleaning new house (for an easy "win" at feeling accomplished/successful), being too tired and feeling bad about my weight gain to want to have sex. H has ADHD that is finally under control, and is generally a sensitive guy. He would say he felt I was condescending to him, and I wouldn't know how to fix this because it was a tone of voice thing that I couldn't hear, and I ultimately didn't feel superior to him so wasn't sure how to fix it. H is thoughtful, sweet, but sometimes would get frustrated because he would put a lot of pressure on trying to make me happy - I am a pretty independent spouse, and we have talked about how he doesn't need to pressure himself for that (especially if I wasn't unhappy to begin with).
H has been in IC since August 19. Originally said he was going for work reasons (stressed), and I believed him based on some of the convos we had. H struggles with ADHD & self esteem. Around 7/19 he finally found a medication that helps with his ADHD (after having tried several).
At the beginning of Sept, he took off a week because he was so stressed at work and didn't want to deal. A work situation that would have meant we would be apart for 9 months was possible at this time, and he asked to not go on it so he could stay with me and the new house and work on that (end of Sept 19).
Biggest arguments would be about chores - I am a neat freak, he isn't. Also, communication issues. He would forget to tell me details, leading to fights.
BD:
10/24 - have minor fight in the morning, escalates quickly. I am frustrated that he isn't listening to me (I had felt unappreciated about some stuff and let it stew overnight and shouldn't have), he is trying to de-escalate and leave for work. I run up to him and push him physically to get him to stop trying to leave. He says he thinks this means we are over, but isn't sure. We both go to work, no resolution.
He stays at his mom's house for the night, messages me the following day that he doesn't want to come back because he is unhappy and is now scared to talk to me about it because of my reaction. He says he has been unhappy for a long time, and that he needs to work on himself.
In the past, I have a few other physical things that have happened: I pushed him one other time, threw a makeup compact at him, threw a coaster at him, and in the middle of a mental breakdown I spit on him once. None of these incidents have occurred in the past year. When this has happened, he says no more or he will leave me, but we never have a deeper convo about it. I think that I handle it, but apparently had not.
From 10/24 - 11/9 he stays at his mom's. On 10/26 he comes to the house to discuss things in person. I take full responsibility for my parts: I have been needing to get IC, haven't wanted to own up to my personal stress and feelings and so was avoiding IC, taking out a lot of things on him. I start IC 10/28. We have 2 dogs: one is his before we were married, and one we got together. The new one is very emotionally attached to the old one. He takes the dogs, says he doesn't trust me to not keep them from him (never would or remotely threatened or intimated anything like this). On Halloween, I see him at our running group (where we met). We are civil, and agree that we do not want to talk about relationship stuff. At the end of the night, he has been drinking and decides he does want to talk and then proceeds to talk to me for an hour. I mostly listen and validate. I had been previously VERY bad at validating. This is where he tells me that he is 90% certain he does not want to get back together.
11/3/ish - first session of MC. He says he will go to MC but doesn't want to reconcile, only wants to go for closure and so we can grow as people. This session goes poorly. He tells me a list of why he doesn't want to work things out (nothing new, same stuff as above). I start crying, MC tells us we need to leave b/c there's no point in being there. H gets mad that she says this while I am upset. H and I stand outside and talk for an hour. I am not begging, just continuing to validate, support him, and own my parts. No blaming, or anything like that. He is upset, but listens.
11/7 H goes to mutual friend for drinks - has a good long talk with him, mutual friend talks to me a ton about it. (important later)
11/8 We see a different MC and it goes much better. We both felt heard, but he still maintains he thinks he is done. MC asks if he were 100% sure I would never push him again, would he want to get back together. H replies, many times, he cannot imagine that. We get dinner afterwards. H thinks we will be friends if we D - I say I don't think I could forgive him for leaving instead of trying to work on stuff/stay with me while I get the IC help I needed. MC asks if we would go on a date. I say yes, H gives run around answer.
11/9 - he moves 4 hours away for work. He takes some stuff from the house, and the dogs. I open up to him while he is at the house about some stuff from IC, and how I was struggling with it because it's painful, but helping. He listens actively, is supportive, but then seems kind of manic about getting what he needs from the house. I ask about the date and ask if he is just scared to tell me no - he said that isn't it. He says he isn't opposed to a date, but isn't ready.
11/22 - 2nd MC session with good guy. I had many things to talk about regarding identifying my behaviors that made him feel talked down to, disrespected, etc. I can tell he appreciates the thought that went into this. He reveals that he felt codependent on me, needs to feel he can make himself happy, and is dealing with some resentment related to the codependency/trying to make me happy. MC pushes H too much on reconciling, in my opinion, and I back up H and say that reconciling would take a while for me, too and be done in small steps. Afterwards, H says he feels it was good for both of us and that we are learning, but he means this in a closure type way. We decide to get beers afterwards (I had to ensure to say it wasn't a date). We go have beers for 3 hours, have a ton of fun. He says he wants to be able to get wild with me but has to drive early in the morning for work. For 2.5 of these hours, we do not discuss any M stuff at all. The last 30, he starts to. It goes mostly well. He says he is careful to not speak in absolutes because he is still 95% sure he does not want to reconcile, and that he is very careful because he doesn't want to give me false hope or lead me on. I say thank you, and that I don't want to give him false hope either because we are out having fun now, but if we do get a divorce, that would not continue. Says he isn't ready for any relationship, even with me. He makes a sex joke, I tell him I would and want to have sex, but he says he isn't comfortable with that. He tries to give me a hall pass to sleep with my friend. I am offended and say I do not want to do that. We have talked many times about remaining faithful during separation, and we both take it seriously. There is no OW. Night still ends well, I can tell he thinks I am cute b/c I am tipsy. Neither of us get upset or tense.
11/25 - I am upset because he is supposed to pick the dogs up from our house, but has had ZERO communication about this. I pack the dogs stuff up, and go to work. Come home to a note about how he has traded in his car (he had been talking about this for months) and had some papers for me to sign (I was on the old loan as a cosigner). I don't understand some of the papers, and am now dreading calling him since I felt it was obvious he was avoiding me. I call him, he is excited to talk to me, is at the dealership, says he will ask re papers and call me when he is on the interstate going back to his house 4 hours away. He calls me back, tells me all about the car, and randomly says that it has a different suspension than his old car, so I won't get carsick in this one like I did in the other. I let this slide, but think it's strange - when am I even gonna be in this car? I can tell he actually wants to talk more, but I get off the phone (nicely).
He had to work Thanksgiving, I came to my parents' house. I debate about texting him (we don't really text anymore), but decide I wanted to and said I was thankful for how strong and loving he is - had zero expectations and didn't think I'd get a reply. He eventually texts back Happy Thanksgiving! and that he hoped I had a good day. I reply and make a joke about how I didn't and how I should have just stayed home alone. He tells me a little more about his day. Briefly, regular friendly convo.
In the past week, he has definitely warmed up to me more, but not in a romantic/intimate way. He does pull back after our interactions - mutual friend said that was predictable based on their talk and him not wanting to 'lead me on.' Mutual friend does think it'll feel like 2 steps forward 1.5 steps back for a while, but also knows how H is wired (impulsive), and that H has isolated himself in a boring town with no friends, so thinks it may be faster than I believe. H has started to post things on social media that are 'look I am doing just fine' type things (food pics, etc) and mutual friend believes this is to convince himself, not others.
My bday is Sunday, and I was thinking he wouldn't text me, but now I do not know. Last year he arranged an amazing surprise party with all of my friends, so I have been dreading this years, but booked myself a fancy stay at a far away location for just me.
He still has a ton of things at the house. He is only supposed to be where he's at for a few months. He has signed a lease, bought some cheap furniture for up there. He says he will still go to MC since he will be in town every few weeks, and his IC is here also.
We don't argue when we see each other. I do not bring up any M stuff. We only talk if there are logistics involved.
I have been torn on NC b/c I have made it clear that I want to respect his wish for space, support his decisions, understand where he is coming from, but also that I want to work it out. Since we do not have kids, and he is so far away, I do want to wait for him to initiate contact, especially to hang out/non logistics type thing. I know he is bored. H is a total people pleasure by nature, and is now taking the time to work on himself, but has done a 180 on this and is now being super narcissistic. I do not think this phase will last (I think it's already wearing off a fair amount). H and I were emotionally very close, and I know he misses that. H did say in MC this last time that if he were to try to reconcile with me now, he knows he would be ultra critical of my every move, and that isn't fair to either of us.
I am GALing - seeing friends, running again, doing IC, handling the issues that affected our marriage so much. It still hurts, and I miss him, and I know it hasn't been very long. I told him he is welcome to stay in our house when he is in town for work instead of staying at his moms, but I do not know if he ever will. I've ordered the DR book, read many threads and resources here. Not sure how to proceed. H is supposed to deploy (friendly) in June for 9 months. I do not think he would file anything before then (more $ to be had), and our state requires 6 months separation before filing. When this first happened, he admitted he knows a lot can change in 6 months. What else should I be doing? It's so recent, and I do not want to give up, but this is painful. I've been through much worse with XH, though. I do not think H has ever had an actual issue in a relationship so just ran away.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I am sorry you are going through this. I think you’re doing the right things. Just remember to detach yourself from any outcome and be prepared to find OW. I know you said there wasn’t, but it’s extremely rare for that to be the case. In my own situation, I was convinced there was nobody else—there was no secrecy, or signs, or anything. But two months into our separation, I called his bluff and H finally admitted to sleeping around. There was no specific OW, but he was still unfaithful.
Thanks - if I do find OW, it's not a dealbreaker to me. He can actually lose his job for adultery (long story) so that may be a reason for him to not admit it. He has been accounted for when he was at home at all times/no phone secrecy/etc. I know his coworkers prodded him on it, too. Most of our friends are joint friends and would have said something. I do genuinely believe him, but I know you never know. While I was blind-sided by this decision, there was at least a catalyst reason, but I think we were about to have a long talk about some stuff regardless. H had a tendency to isolate himself. I can see his phone records (I haven't looked in a while but definitely combed through them when this first happened). He was still openly physically attracted to me, despite how I felt. I think he is now so focused on himself that there isn't room for anyone else - me included.
My husband was the same—no secrecy, and all his time was accounted for. I believe he used Craigslist or a hookup app. He only admitted to a single hookup, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there were others. In hindsight, I still have no idea how my H found the time. We had at least one mutual friend that knew what H did, and that guy said nothing to me.
Fair - I am not super worried about it. If there was, there was. It doesn't change my willingness to work on stuff.
I had met him at a social group that I'd been going to for years, and he is an active member of that group now, too (we both have been for years). I found out today that the Christmas party is the day before our next counseling session. I am sure he will be there. We have attended this group since separating and it is normal/fine - we talk, and honestly, usually at this group we socialized separately anyhow so most people have no idea what's going on (my attendance has dwindled in the past year or 2). I am sure he will be at this party. I know I can go and be normal, and it gives me extra incentive to look nice. One of my GAL things has been taking better physical care of myself, whether he is around or not. This is still 2 weeks away, so I am interested in seeing how that goes/how he acts. This group is kind of lecherous, and I know I will be hit on. Not sure yet how to navigate this.
I'd suggest taking a long, hard look at why you decided to hit him those times. Time for a major change there.
I wouldn't go full no contact. Just don't be the first to call or text and don't respond to all of his calls or texts. Don't expect a birthday message.
Prepare for the OW to appear, he told you to sleep around and most likely to feel better about something...
Don't believe anything he says and only half of what he does.
You'll have a hard time growing if you're focused on him so do your GAL and focus on you the most.
Hey SC, sorry to hear about your sitch. One thing to add to the above is that it sounds like he wants to be friends with you and, while that may seem to be better than being enemies (or nothing) it may limit your ability to R. What's the best way to get out of the "friend zone"? It's not by being a better friend. So, the non-date dates, hanging out, etc., - drop those. Do you have other people you can grab beers with? Go with them. You said that you are in a running club - run more, join a gym, take a cooking class.
Great job on not bringing up the relationship - drop the rope, take the pressure off, focus on yourself.
I'll echo the above comments re: violence - I misbehaved in a very different way in my relationship and it has taken over a year for me to figure out the real cause (or, at least, what I believe to be the cause). Remember: actions not words. You can say that you'll never do it again but, if he'd asked before the last time you did it you likely would have said the same thing. Work on the causes of this behavior - it will benefit you no matter the outcome.
Keep posting, we're here for you!
Thanks. I definitely agree re: violence, which is why I started IC immediately and has been a large focus of my IC, and very, very hard. I am committed to IC for a long time, regardless of outcome with H. We have addressed some of my individual work in MC, as well. There are a lot of lasting effects from being married to someone abusive for a while (my XH from first marriage).
Re: friendship - I was initially worried about that, too. I have been explicit about not wanting to give him false hope that if this ends in D that we would be friends. I am not interested in being friends with someone who would just run away when I need help, instead of being there for me. (Note - I do not add that part in when I tell him that). I've made this comment more than once, and he says he knows friendship may not be realistic in that scenario. So, if I drop the non-date dates, then what? Do I draw a line in the sand and say I am only interested in date-dates if he tries to hang out and see me? We live very far apart, so there isn't a ton of opportunity. Our relationship grew out of being friends and being listened to. When we had beers last, he did make an overtly sexual comment/gesture that is something that he would not have done with a friend.
Small update - I was excited most of the day about my birthday trip alone. Once I got to my room at my destination in the early evening, though, I started to feel so upset and sad that I hadnt received any text, and then I was upset at myself for even caring so much. Around this same time, he ended up texting me. It said "happy birthday - I hope you had a good day today, and I'm sorry that I didnt text you until now." I didnt want to tell too much, so I eventually just replied "thank you." A while later, he texted asking if I did anything fun today. I gave a one sentence answer of "took myself on a trip to [place]." I dont know why he says he was sorry he didnt text me, and am not going to even try to analyze that as it doesn't matter. If he wanted to know actual details about what I'm doing and how my day was, he can call or idk, come back into my life. I took myself to a fancy dinner and enjoyed the rest of my night calmly. I am looking forward to detaching, even though I think that'll be a long and difficult process. We dont have plans to see each other until the 11th & 12th, so I'm not expecting any communication in the interim, as there isnt any logistics stuff that I know of coming up.
I took myself to a fancy dinner and enjoyed the rest of my night calmly.
That sounds nice. I am glad you did that.
I wish you well on your birthday.
Birthday HUGS
Hi SC, it sounds like you've jumped right into DB'ing, you're handling things quite well so far.
You say you don't think there's an OW and in your case you may be right. This may indeed have everything to do with the violent confrontations you've had with your H. A lot of people think that it's OK for a woman to strike and/ or throw things at a man because men are supposed to be "stronger", but it is just as bad as a man doing such things towards a woman. I was dating a woman for a while that was very sweet and loving, but then we got in a minor argument and the monster came out. She was yelling and screaming and ran into my kitchen and grabbed a knife and pointed it at me, then cut herself with it. I can't even begin to describe how freaked out I was, I never did see her the same way again. I don't scare easily and she was 8" shorter and 60 pounds lighter than me, but she legitimately scared me. So don't play down the impact that may have had on your H. I'm glad to hear you're in IC for it now.
Your H isn't going to believe your changes for a while, so you've got to show him consistent changed behavior over a long period of time. Stick with the IC, keep your anger under control and be patient! Good luck!
Thanks R2C!
AS- I agree. It's definitely my action that caused this, and that's one of the many reasons I dont actually think theres an OW. That situation sounds terrifying and I'm sorry you went through something like that. At the beginning of my IC and when speaking to some close friends about what I did, I definitely struggled with understanding how this was as bad as other domestic abuse, and no matter how I feel about generational and gender differences, the impact on H was the same and I had to come to terms with that and validate his feelings when we went to MC and when we spoke about it in the beginning.
We have talked about it some - I opened up a few weeks ago when he was at the house picking up the dogs about how I was having a hard time in IC and being hard on myself because it meant putting myself into the same camp as my XH who was horribly abusive to me many times (gave me a concussion was probably the most awful offense). Dealing with those feelings in IC has been rough but needed to happen. During that convo H did say that I am nowhere near how my XH was, and while that was nice to hear, it doesnt change anything. H did say that when he started his IC he had a hard time confronting some uncomfortable stuff about his behavior, too (impulsive related). During this convo, I'd said I missed being able to talk to him about this stuff. He said he is always there for me, but I havent called or brought it up again as it seems to go against DB stuff.
The other piece of showing that's changed - idk how to ever do that, as it was probably over a year in between the BD occurrence and the previous one. I thought I'd handled it, and we definitely had tense fights between those where nothing like that happened. We discussed the incident and the why pretty thoroughly in MC so there isnt really anything else to say about it. Ultimately he may decide he can never trust me again and move on. Or he may decide once hes had some emotional distance from that situation that he can start to. While that was the catalyst, it definitely wasnt our only issue - the biggest ones were that he felt I talked down to him, and in our last MC session I had identified some subtle but frequent things I was doing or saying that I didnt realize or understand was making him feel that way. Biggest one being saying things like 'can you help me do x' instead of 'can we do x' and taking his opinion into consideration and not being so focused on logistics. He seemed impressed that I was able to identify these on my own and understood that I didnt realize the impact of that language difference. But with this, it's another thing where I cant really show those changes because 'we' arent really doing joint things right now. I understand he needs to work on his own feelings of codependency and being able to make himself happy before touching this couples stuff, and he may decide he doesnt want to work stuff out, but who knows. Hes isolated himself in a boring town away from friends and is focusing on work, which burns him out faster than he recalls. He has a lot of time to think/reflect and figure out what he wants once the fun/relief of being apart has worn off. When he would go out of town for work when we were together, I'd always intiay be excited bc it can be fun to have that solo time, but it quickly becomes...not fun.
SamCal,
A couple of things just for edification:
1) Hs that love their wives do not care about their W's weight. Sex is about feeling close, connected and loved. It has zero to do with how W looks. So many Ws say "I look like a mess, hair undone, in sweats, and he still wants to have sex." Yep. Because we don't care.
2) As one neat freak to another: It doesn't matter. Stop nagging him about it. He does not care about neatness like you do and never will. Stop trying to change him. I spent 18+ years trying to change my W in this regard. After BD I gave it up. If I want things neat I make them neat! I no longer harp on her for it. Guess what? My life and hers are so much better. The tension and stress over it is gone. I will always be a neat freak.She never will be. Accept his sloppiness and move on.
3) Do not use stress and "mental breakdowns" as an excuse. Throwing things at some one is and always will be a choice. Own it. It was wrong. Admit it, improve, and move on.
4) Marriage is not about independence. Marriage is about shared lives. Experiences. Connection. While self-differentiation is important (google that), being too independent in a marriage is always a recipe for disaster. This is another 180 I had to make to save my marriage. I am as independent as they come. Be one half of a MR, not a single person trying to play a married person.
5) Drop all expectations. You've been fired as his W. Assume for now that there will be nothing done for bdays, holidays, anniversaries, etc. That is your reality today. The bday trip is perfect! This is what we try to get new LBSs to understand for GAL. Concentrate on more like this.
Remember, this is about improving. Remember to GAL....180...detach. Expect the worst, hope for the best.
SamCal,
A couple of things just for edification:
1) Hs that love their wives do not care about their W's weight. Sex is about feeling close, connected and loved. It has zero to do with how W looks. So many Ws say "I look like a mess, hair undone, in sweats, and he still wants to have sex." Yep. Because we don't care.
Totally agree - he didn't care, but I cared. How I felt about myself and my body and feeling insecure made me not want to have sex. It had nothing to do with him - we had great sex at any size. It made me feel like a failure and awful, and sometimes no one can break through that. I knew inside it was a physical manifestation of me not handling stuff in life like I needed to,
2) As one neat freak to another: It doesn't matter. Stop nagging him about it. He does not care about neatness like you do and never will. Stop trying to change him. I spent 18+ years trying to change my W in this regard. After BD I gave it up. If I want things neat I make them neat! I no longer harp on her for it. Guess what? My life and hers are so much better. The tension and stress over it is gone. I will always be a neat freak.She never will be. Accept his sloppiness and move on.
Also agree - one of the first things I discussed in IC. My IC was like "you are a very black and white person," so the first thing I challenged myself to see as a gray area was cleanliness. Before it was like - any dish in the sink = UNCLEAN. Since H has been gone, this has been an easy one for me to conquer on my own. I think the cleanliness ramped up because our new house is brand new construction so I wanted to keep it nice, and this was an anxiety escape for me. It was ridiculous, and I recognize as much. Does the couch needing to be dust busted really impact my quality of life? No. I had lost perspective on this and used it as a distraction for bigger problems, so this in essence is now a non-issue. Granted, there's less to clean because it's just me, but I haven't dove into cleaning as a distraction now, and do not care if I leave some dishes in the sink, or something unclean for a few days. It doesn't matter.
3) Do not use stress and "mental breakdowns" as an excuse. Throwing things at some one is and always will be a choice. Own it. It was wrong. Admit it, improve, and move on.
Also agree - it's not an excuse. There isn't any excuse. Owning all of that has been hard, but I have been doing it. This is a change that needed to happen regardless of whatever is going on with my H and I.
4) Marriage is not about independence. Marriage is about shared lives. Experiences. Connection. While self-differentiation is important (google that), being too independent in a marriage is always a recipe for disaster. This is another 180 I had to make to save my marriage. I am as independent as they come. Be one half of a MR, not a single person trying to play a married person.
I am definitely incredibly guilty of this. I will read back in your history to see how you overcame this. I've been thinking a lot about this and how it really affected this marriage. I think part of it is due to my previous marriage, and how if I wasn't the one who did something, it didn't get done, because he was a POS alcoholic. I explored this in IC and also in our last MC, and said it wasn't fair of me to not give my current H a chance to do stuff on his own and not nitpick him (this is different than being independent, but dovetails into the reasons why I felt the need to maintain so much independence - b/c I got so royally screwed the first time, and was scared.). I think this is something I want to bring up again in IC and in our next MC session after doing more ruminating. Part of this is financial, too - I make about 2x as much as H from my newer job, and that is a big deal to me - having financial independence.
I have made a list of what reconciling would look like from my end (IC suggested this) - this list is just for me, and I haven't shared it with H and don't plan to unless it comes up, but being more interdependent is part of it. I can see why H would feel like he is a lesser person/not as involved in decisions based on how independent I was. I didn't want to put the cart before the horse, but it was important for me to figure out what I wanted and what I'd need if we do reconcile to make sure I could trust him to not just run out again if something got hard. He's young and I think genuinely never had to deal with any relationship conflict, and to his credit, this is a big thing to deal with.
5) Drop all expectations. You've been fired as his W. Assume for now that there will be nothing done for bdays, holidays, anniversaries, etc. That is your reality today. The bday trip is perfect! This is what we try to get new LBSs to understand for GAL. Concentrate on more like this.
Remember, this is about improving. Remember to GAL....180...detach. Expect the worst, hope for the best.
The firing analogy hit home for me - in our first good MC session, the MC asked me what I did for work, and if I ever got frustrated, and I said yes. He said well you'd never hit someone there, would you? And I said absolutely not. This put things in a different perspective for me, and made me question why I wasn't taking my own marriage as seriously as I do my career. It [censored] feeling fired, because you're right. Sometimes I feel like an idiot kid who broke their favorite toy and am crying over it. All I can do is learn from my mistakes, regardless of what the future holds. Thankfully (I guess?) I have a lot of individual growth to do - as does he. It makes focusing on that better, and helps me identify the ways it was affecting our relationship where I hadn't noticed.
Part of being so independent means the GAL part isn't challenging for me - I was consistently maintaining independent friendships and doing stuff/hobbies. I usually have to schedule nights off from social stuff to take time for myself instead of vice versa.
Another piece of IC for me has been stop trying to control everything (generally, not even just in this situation), so that's been a tough one as well. Patience has always been my biggest life struggle, so I am trying to take this as an opportunity to become more empathetic and patient. Because I do still love my H, it's easier to feel that, regardless of my own feelings. He definitely had some contributions to the environment not being great as well, but I have not once blamed him for any of this and taken full responsibility for my pieces. Him opening up about feeling codependent helped - because I am so independent, he would put a lot of pressure on himself to 'take care of me' and then get so hurt/frustrated that it didn't work or have the desired effect. I know he is having a hard time with this, too - seeing someone that you love struggle with something and then having that something hurt you is brutal.
In short - thank you, Steve.
I had lost perspective on this and used it as a distraction for bigger problems, so this in essence is now a non-issue. Granted, there's less to clean because it's just me, but I haven't dove into cleaning as a distraction now, and do not care if I leave some dishes in the sink, or something unclean for a few days. It doesn't matter.
3) Do not use stress and "mental breakdowns" as an excuse. Throwing things at some one is and always will be a choice. Own it. It was wrong. Admit it, improve, and move on.
Also agree - it's not an excuse. There isn't any excuse. Owning all of that has been hard, but I have been doing it. This is a change that needed to happen regardless of whatever is going on with my H and I.
4) Marriage is not about independence. Marriage is about shared lives. Experiences. Connection. While self-differentiation is important (google that), being too independent in a marriage is always a recipe for disaster. This is another 180 I had to make to save my marriage. I am as independent as they come. Be one half of a MR, not a single person trying to play a married person.
I am definitely incredibly guilty of this. I will read back in your history to see how you overcame this. I've been thinking a lot about this and how it really affected this marriage. I think part of it is due to my previous marriage, and how if I wasn't the one who did something, it didn't get done, because he was a POS alcoholic. I explored this in IC and also in our last MC, and said it wasn't fair of me to not give my current H a chance to do stuff on his own and not nitpick him (this is different than being independent, but dovetails into the reasons why I felt the need to maintain so much independence - b/c I got so royally screwed the first time, and was scared.). I think this is something I want to bring up again in IC and in our next MC session after doing more ruminating. Part of this is financial, too - I make about 2x as much as H from my newer job, and that is a big deal to me - having financial independence.
I have made a list of what reconciling would look like from my end (IC suggested this) - this list is just for me, and I haven't shared it with H and don't plan to unless it comes up, but being more interdependent is part of it. I can see why H would feel like he is a lesser person/not as involved in decisions based on how independent I was. I didn't want to put the cart before the horse, but it was important for me to figure out what I wanted and what I'd need if we do reconcile to make sure I could trust him to not just run out again if something got hard. He's young and I think genuinely never had to deal with any relationship conflict, and to his credit, this is a big thing to deal with.
5) Drop all expectations. You've been fired as his W. Assume for now that there will be nothing done for bdays, holidays, anniversaries, etc. That is your reality today. The bday trip is perfect! This is what we try to get new LBSs to understand for GAL. Concentrate on more like this.
Remember, this is about improving. Remember to GAL....180...detach. Expect the worst, hope for the best.
The firing analogy hit home for me - in our first good MC session, the MC asked me what I did for work, and if I ever got frustrated, and I said yes. He said well you'd never hit someone there, would you? And I said absolutely not. This put things in a different perspective for me, and made me question why I wasn't taking my own marriage as seriously as I do my career. It [censored] feeling fired, because you're right. Sometimes I feel like an idiot kid who broke their favorite toy and am crying over it. All I can do is learn from my mistakes, regardless of what the future holds. Thankfully (I guess?) I have a lot of individual growth to do - as does he. It makes focusing on that better, and helps me identify the ways it was affecting our relationship where I hadn't noticed.
Part of being so independent means the GAL part isn't challenging for me - I was consistently maintaining independent friendships and doing stuff/hobbies. I usually have to schedule nights off from social stuff to take time for myself instead of vice versa.
Another piece of IC for me has been stop trying to control everything (generally, not even just in this situation), so that's been a tough one as well. Patience has always been my biggest life struggle, so I am trying to take this as an opportunity to become more empathetic and patient. Because I do still love my H, it's easier to feel that, regardless of my own feelings. He definitely had some contributions to the environment not being great as well, but I have not once blamed him for any of this and taken full responsibility for my pieces. Him opening up about feeling codependent helped - because I am so independent, he would put a lot of pressure on himself to 'take care of me' and then get so hurt/frustrated that it didn't work or have the desired effect. I know he is having a hard time with this, too - seeing someone that you love struggle with something and then having that something hurt you is brutal.
In short - thank you, Steve.
Hi SC,
I arrived here 10 years ago. I have learned a lot.
H says 90% 95% Whatever. How long do you want to wait until he says 100% or 0%? Personally I would not wait.
Most posters wait too long to take action. Most posters give all the power to "decide" to the unhappy spouse.
Have you read through all 9 quote threads as well as my book recommendations?
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2870386#Post2870386If not, take some time to absorb as much as you can.
If you read all the quotes, You will have wise words from coach, Robx, AllenA, and many other posters.
I believe you are ahead of most posters on your DBing. Keep learning and changing. Focus on your personal growth.
Right now is a time to challenge your belief system. Things that work are almost always counter-intuitive.
For example, I would tell him that you don't believe MC is working. I would tell him that you would like to attend retrouvaille to see if R is even worth saving. We can start the D paperwork when we get back.
How do you show high value? By turning down AT LEAST the next two times he wants to spend time with you.
Learn to give vague answers.
H:"Did you do anything fun today?"
2 hours later W:"Yes, I did"
Thanks R2C -
Re: 95% or whatever - I am going to wait and give him whatever time he needs to sort his feelings out. If a time comes where I decide I am just over it and want him to move the rest of his stuff out of the house and GTFO more than I want to work stuff out, that's how long I will wait. I know what it feels like to feel 95% - that's how I felt in my first M. I was mostly done, but went to counseling in the offchance it'd work. It (among other things) didn't. IDK where that 5% is coming from, and ultimately it doesn't matter. He knows where I stand, and I currently don't feel like a doormat by being in limbo. We are both growing right now, and I need to be patient with both of us. It's only been 5 weeks - 2 of those he was at his moms, 3 in his new place 4 hours away.
While I am hurt right now, I do actually support his moving away and doing what he needs to do to feel OK, with or without me. Marrying someone in the military means sometimes we will be apart. I made it clear that I support it and don't see it as an obstacle to R.
I was actually planning on saying something similar about MC after our next session (I have some stuff I want to say in the next one) because I do believe that. He had said after our last one that he doesn't have much more to say, and while he was willing to still go, didn't want it to be fruitless, either. I agree with that. I don't think he would agree to one of those weekends. Military offers some relationship weekends away, and we have talked about that. How do I navigate this convo knowing that he wouldn't agree to something like that? As far as paperwork - I think the onus is on him to file anything, since he is the one who wants it. We have only been separated for 5 weeks, and the state requires 6 months, so we have a bit.
Assuming I have a chance to turn him down, I will! Giving vague answers about my birthday was HARD. And I can tell he found that to be strange/different for me. Again, not sure when I will really have an opportunity to be vague anyhow, as there isn't currently a reason for us to communicate.
One of our dogs is the kind of dog that when he escapes, the only way to get him to come back is to ignore him. (the other dog feels immediate guilt and runs right back in!) I am trying to think about that in this whole thing. I don't intend to fully ignore my H, but it helps me remember to not chase. If we go after that dog, he just continues to run. If not, he sits across from the house and just stares at us. Eventually he gets curious and comes back. Sometimes I do put a treat or something in the yard, but not active chase.
I am still in the crying every day phase, wanting to call him phase, but I haven't given in and I know it'll eventually get easier, and I am finding ways to make it easier on myself. I try to not analyze every interaction that comes up. I have started reading the quotes and will continue - thank you. Part of my GAL is not being a gross slob at home, and that is for me. I have taken more pride in my appearance (I used to work in the beauty industry, and then in an office alone for a small business, so did a 180 there and am trying to come back from it now that I have a job sort of inbetween). My coworkers have noticed (saying I look like a model and amazing etc), and one time when H came to get the dogs the first thing he said was 'wow your hair looks great!' This is all for me, though - taking care of myself for me.
Regarding the holiday party next week in our social group - I am excited because this is a place where I am openly high value, and will see lots of people who see me as such, and that will feel good, and I think add to whatever he's got going on in his mind (or not - either way, I will have fun and look amazing.)
Additional question/thought: (apologies if this is addressed in the book - my copy comes Thursday)
How does one handle a 180 regarding the "as if" attitude? My attitude and stance has always been "I want to be with you and am OK alone." My H knows that I can be 100% OK sitting and home and move on from things. One of the issues in our marriage was me being too independent and him not feeling needed or wanted enough. Doing NC, doesn't that feed into that issue? I don't want to call him up wallowing and crying and begging, but how does one walk that line on a 180 while still giving space for him to think?
How does one handle a 180 regarding the "as if" attitude? My attitude and stance has always been "I want to be with you and am OK alone." My H knows that I can be 100% OK sitting and home and move on from things. One of the issues in our marriage was me being too independent and him not feeling needed or wanted enough. Doing NC, doesn't that feed into that issue? I don't want to call him up wallowing and crying and begging, but how does one walk that line on a 180 while still giving space for him to think?
This is a very common question/ concern. Let me offer two scenarios in response:
Scenario 1- you and your H have been going through a rough spot and you talk about it. He says he thinks you've been cold and distant in the M and would like for you to try to do something about it. The proper response in this case is to be more warm and loving, reach out more, text more, have more sexy time, pay attention to him and make him feel wanted and loved. Maybe look into some MC, and pick up a few books on how to bring love back to the M.
Scenario 2- you've been BD'd. Your H is done and wants out of the M. When asked why he drags out a laundry list of things, one of which is you were too cold and distant in the M.
The difference in scenario 2 is that your H does not want you to fix what he perceives as wrong, because he is ALREADY DONE. Most WAS's really struggle with this, because they -think- that the response to scenario 1 is what will "fix" scenario 2 as well. But by the time you've been BD'd a switch has been flipped and there's no magic pill to fix things. You're faced with a lot of hard work and patience to bounce back from scenario 2. You give him time and space and work on yourself. You focus on your life, you get out and GAL. You do things to increase your attractiveness and appeal. And eventually once he wrestles his demons to the ground, maybe he'll approach you about recon.
To go along with AS, I also want to use my usual car analogy:
When you own a car, if you do the routine maintenance, then the car will hum along and perform as you expect it to. If you ignore the routine maintenance, you may get a warning light (see scenario #1), that will remind you "hey, vehicle ownership (like marriage) requires routine maintenance." So that would be an appropriate time to do the maintenance. However, if you blow the engine or have another major breakdown (ie scenario 2), the routine maintenance is no longer going to keep the vehicle running.
So, you see, being warm and loving would have worked at some point before BD, but now your engine is blown. And changing the oil isn't going to fix it.
...because he is ALREADY DONE. Most WAS'sLBS's really struggle with this....
I believe AS meant LBS
AS/Steve/R2C - thank you! That makes total sense and is super helpful.
Small update: probably wasn't the wisest move, but Monday night I had debated after my IC session, and did email H saying that "I'd love to get belated bday drinks with you. If not I understand, I want to give you whatever space you need." I didn't expect a reply, but got one Tuesday morning. He replied with "I will see what my schedule looks like. I have [work] this weekend so will prob be in [our town]" but then says he isn't sure because he pulled his back (which means he'd stay where he is 4 hours away if it isn't better). Before I could answer this email, he also texted me asking if I wanted to watch the dogs if he comes in town this weekend. I later in the day replied only via email: "Sorry to hear that - it sounds painful. Hope your back feels better! If you come, I'd love to hang out together and the dogs are always welcome. If not, I can meet you wherever works." I don't anticipate hearing anything about this until tomorrow, and am not going to follow up/hound him about it. Even with this, I need to let go of whatever expectations I do have (because they admittedly are there).
I am having a hard time just focusing on the present, and not being sad about not having more or wanting more. Yesterday I was markedly better at it, but overall, it's been difficult. My IC did say he is proud/impressed with how I have been, but still.
Update from yesterday:
H texted me saying Hello! I am on my way in town, do you want the dogs tonight or do you need some time without them? This hurt me more than it should have b/c I feel he's been more focused on the dogs than on if we can get bday drinks. Also, I didn't realize he was coming in town yesterday and had looked forward going to running group alone, and he is a big part of that too.
Me: 'I am going to [running group]'
H: OK. Is it OK if I drop the dogs off at the house while I go to my office and get them on my way out? I am still debating [running group] because my back still hurts."
Me: of course you can drop the dogs at the house. I am sorry your back still hurts - understandable to be wary of running, that may be too much."
About 15 mins after this, I get a notification from my wifi camera. I've gotten this since he has left (really to watch my cats and see who is taking down xmas stockings) so he doesn't know it's set up, but it is in the open/obvious. He comes into the house with the dogs, and then spends a while opening and reading all the bday cards I have magnet-ed to the fridge. Nothing private in them - in fact, several mention knowing I am having a hard time, and none of them are from men or anything. He then leaves and I can tell notices the camera on the way out
When I am on the way home from work, I see his is picking up the dogs and proceeds to change clothes in front of the camera in the living room (not running clothes, so I feel relieved). I can see he is on his way out, so I call. We are always jovial/upbeat on the phone. He says he was at the house and was picking up the dogs and asked where I was. I said I was a few blocks away. He suggests that he wait on me and that we can go to running group together - he says he is only going to the bar we meet up at beforehand, but not staying because he has been up all day. I said yes, that'd be great, thank you. I come home, change, we have nice small talk, he mentions seeing the camera. We had always talked about getting one, so it's not odd that I did. We leave, he starts going on about his new car. We are catching up, and I -stupidly- decide the mood is light enough to bring up bday drinks. I said do you think you'll be able to get drinks while you're here? He then goes on and on about his work schedule over the weekend and I said I understand. I said it's totally OK if he doesn't want to, I know he needs space, and it's OK to just tell me no. He said that's not it. He then asks when our next counseling appt is (the 12th - next time he will be back in town after this weekend). He said that he would let me know soon.
I acted fine but inside felt totally defeated. He did this same runaround when the MC asked if we would go on a date. I always calmly say it's OK to not want to do something, and he always says 'that's not it.' With the date, he eventually said "I am not opposed to going on a date with you, but I am not ready." Which, I appreciated. I am not going to bring this or any other thing up again. I know I shouldn't because even though I try to make it as least pressure as possible, it is pursuit. And it hurts to be rejected by H.
We get to running group, and stayed together while people came up, acting normal, etc. We are normally fairly detached at these things, so it's not weird if we aren't all over each other. I still wear my ring, he does not. The rest of the time he is there is fine, and we say goodbye. I had a nice night with my friends but definitely had bouts of sadness and defeat. Saw some people that I love a lot, and got some great hugs and talks from them.
This morning he came by and dropped the dogs off. Again, nice normal interaction. I was kinda sleepy and almost tried to cuddle hug him but caught myself, thankfully.
I feel bad that I messed up with pursuing.
I feel bad that I messed up with pursuing.
It never works after a BD, but we all try it. I think even after hearing it's wrong we all still have to do it and learn our lessons the hard way. Don't beat yourself up, just keep moving forward! Remember this simple rule when it comes to WAS's:
Pursuit = rejection
AS - appreciate it, thanks.
H did tell me yesterday he is going to be late (again) paying for his part of the phone bill, and the internet, which is the only utility in his name at our house. But, he shows up with a new car, and new clothes....I can cover it and he knows it, but I am tired of his unilateral decisions affecting me, too. I think I may bring this up in MC because I do feel taken advantage of in regards to him knowing I am financially secure on my own.
Update:
H texted yesterday saying he is staying in town until our MC appointment and asked a million questions about the dogs, but said nothing about hanging out or seeing me. This is frustrating. I did end up telling him about the phone bill via text since he will have time to do whatever he needs to do tomorrow. I got some sob story (again) about money, before I said this. I said that his financial decisions are his choice, and no one made those choices but him, and that he also made choices for me financially by leaving, and that I am not willing to continue to pay his bills during this time. He said OK and I am taking his phone off of my bill today. He has a work phone, so not supremely detrimental to him.
I have spent all weekend angry instead of sad and haven't cried anymore. I am nervous about being angry about this because I don't want to say something I regret, but also stuff is definitely stewing. I have IC tonight. One of H's bosses is one of my close friends (this is how we met and he's actually who married us). He's in a strange position in all of this, but I do know he spoke to H yesterday about how everyone (including a bunch of people at work) is in limbo and how he needs to decide something, even if it is him being 100% sure that he isn't sure what he wants. I don't know how fruitful this conversation was. H did mention MC twice yesterday in our convo re the dogs.
This morning I did text saying I wasn't certain about going to MC right now, as I don't feel he cares about what I have to say/my feelings, and that his actions (or lackthereof) have spoken more than anything he can say in counseling, but I did say I am still willing to go and that I do have things to say and want to listen to him, too. I am frustrated at myself because every time I have texted him yesterday and this morning I have regretted it. Fortunately I will be busy at work for the next 3 days with a big meeting, and have IC tonight.
How patient should I be? Part of me wants to ask for the house key back, since he doesn't live nor stay here, and also want him to move the rest of his stuff out if he's so done. When I felt this way last week, I would be overcome with the want to work it out, but now I just feel mad/impatient and have felt that way for a few days. I am trying to remember the stuff we talked about to be more patient, but I really feel taken advantage of. Not that he cares about my feelings in this anyhow.
You're building up the bday drinks and hanging out to a level where it shouldn't be right now. You're in a tough martial situation, so I think you should drop the expectations and not let this get to you.
In regards to H's boss, I would not confide in him. He is in awkward position. If he asks, keep things rather generic.
Let your H be the one to bring up MC. I don't like the text about you not being certain. Be decisive. It sounds like you want to work on your marriage. If your H wants the same things then go to MC. Your H can probably tell you how there were times the he felt like you didn't care about his feelings and that your actions spoke for themselves.
If you love him, patience is required, especially right now. I would slow down on most of the things you're worried about and just try to realize what is important.
H texted yesterday saying he is staying in town until our MC appointment and asked a million questions about the dogs, but said nothing about hanging out or seeing me.
I know this is hard to accept, but he doesn't want to hang out with you or see you. That's your reality right now. He may very well want to down the road, but for now he doesn't. And you have got to accept it and respect it. Leave him alone, that's what he wants.
This is frustrating. I did end up telling him about the phone bill via text since he will have time to do whatever he needs to do tomorrow. I got some sob story (again) about money, before I said this. I said that his financial decisions are his choice, and no one made those choices but him, and that he also made choices for me financially by leaving, and that I am not willing to continue to pay his bills during this time. He said OK and I am taking his phone off of my bill today. He has a work phone, so not supremely detrimental to him.
GOOD. You should give him no quarter on this. He shows up with a new car and new clothes and then lays a sob story on you about how he can't afford a joint bill? No, that shouldn't fly with you.
One of H's bosses is one of my close friends (this is how we met and he's actually who married us). He's in a strange position in all of this, but I do know he spoke to H yesterday about how everyone (including a bunch of people at work) is in limbo and how he needs to decide something, even if it is him being 100% sure that he isn't sure what he wants.
Like Ovr said, don't talk to him about the R. Don't talk to ANY mutual friends/ family about it. If he asks then just say you're taking time to yourself to decide what you want and leave it at that.
This morning I did text saying I wasn't certain about going to MC right now, as I don't feel he cares about what I have to say/my feelings, and that his actions (or lackthereof) have spoken more than anything he can say in counseling, but I did say I am still willing to go and that I do have things to say and want to listen to him, too.
He will probably feel like you are attacking him with comments like that. Make it about you and not him. "I don't feel we should be going to MC right now." Then if he asks why, "I feel like I need some time and space to sort things out, and the MC isn't helping me with this."
I am frustrated at myself because every time I have texted him yesterday and this morning I have regretted it.
I'm like that as well, I find myself pounding out a reply and sending it when I should be taking some time to think about it. Something I tried that helped was turning off text notifications for XW after BD. So if she sent something I didn't know until I bothered to check later. I would only check when I was calm, and that allowed me to respond with a cooler head.
How patient should I be? Part of me wants to ask for the house key back, since he doesn't live nor stay here, and also want him to move the rest of his stuff out if he's so done.
In my opinion those are two unrelated things. You can be patient with him while also asking for the key back and for him to get his stuff. Your potential recon is months or maybe years away, so you can be patient about that while also taking action to insulate yourself from him.
SamCal - I haven't read your whole sitch, just the last few posts and I can see you're getting good advice from the others here. But I do have some insight into the dog situation.
We have a dog. A beautiful cockapoo that my H and the kids wanted when we moved into our dream house. I wasn't totally thrilled because my H is away a lot and the kids were little. On some level, it was just one more thing for me to have to look after. But I agreed anyway and tbh, our dog is adorable. After he left whenever he came round he would make a big fuss over her then look at me and say "have you been feeding her/walking her". It made me feel awful - like I was a none person. An inconvenient babysitter / dog sitter.
But animals are easy. They never demand anything. There is no pressure. It wasn't the he loved our dog more than me. It wasn't that he missed our dog more than me. It was just that dogs don't apply pressure or make them feel guilty. Dogs just love. You see, my H wasn't ready to leave 'us' just yet, and by us, I mean the whole kit and caboodle - the house, the kids, the family, the dog, the Sunday roasts, the late night cups of tea - but he wasn't sure he wanted to come back. So, by showing our dog affection, he could have that without getting my hopes up. The dog provides him with comfort without asking for anything. Watch a child cuddling a teddy when they are feeling confused/sad/threatened. That is your H with your dog.
What do you do? That's really up to you. Like children, family pets are not pawns.
Thank you, everyone.
Ovr - He does not want the same things out of MC - he says he wants to go for 'closure' and for us to grow as people. Which, I can do on my own in IC. I do think he listens, and the last MC was in my eyes pretty productive in that he was impressed with what I talked about and what he said helped me have a deeper understanding of what's going on.
I do still love him, but am tired of feeling like I have no control over stuff happening in my life. I know I need to reframe this being patient as control/choice.
AS - it is definitely hard for me to accept, because when we do hang out, he expresses having fun and wanting to hang out more, and then doesn't. Thursday he waited at the house specifically for me to get home so we could ride together somewhere (his idea). I know he is confused/doesn't know what he wants, and it's hard to not read in to stuff. That is a good idea re: notifications. I am concerned that the house key/moving stuff is seen as being impatient or manipulative.
When I ask him about doing something, and he gives a non-answer, I always say if it's a 'no' it's OK and just let me know, and I always get the answer of "that's not it." But, it effectively IS a no because nothing happens, except in this case it gives me hope that it isn't and that he is considering it. He's done that with bday stuff, date stuff, and essentially this entire separation as well. I understand the first step to being less frustrated with this is to not ask/bring it up. He has my number/knows where I live if he wants to see me and hang out. He expresses 'wanting to be friends,' but then ignores me on basic stuff.
FS - I love having the dogs. One of the dogs was his before M, and the other we got as a wedding present, and they are attached to each other. Since H stays with his mom when he's in town, he could keep them, but he knows I miss them (and that they miss me). He has been overly considerate about the dogs (making sure it isn't an imposition on me or that I'm not too busy to watch them), and I think seeing that versus how uncaring he acts about everything else is what makes it hard for me. When H is out of town, he has the dogs. It's just a weird shift - H is supposed to deploy next year, so I'd be watching the dogs alone for months anyhow. I don't think he uses the dogs as any kind of excuse to contact me - I think he feels bad for taking my family away. I think he does miss our life - I suspect that's why he read all of my birthday cards on the fridge.
How patient should I be? Part of me wants to ask for the house key back, since he doesn't live nor stay here, and also want him to move the rest of his stuff out if he's so done.
I agree with AS.
If I was in your shoes, I would send him a text. "When do you plan to have the rest of your things out of my house?" Another poster asked not to "sugar coat things". No sugar : "H, I would like your things out of my house. Would you prefer to take care of it this weekend or next?"
Small update - Xmas party was last night. I was exhausted so only went for 45 mins. H knew I was going, as I'd sent him an email earlier in the day about some dog stuff and ended it with 'See you at the party tonight?'
H came up to me first at the party, was genuinely excited to see me, nice/sweet. We talked for a while about just social stuff. When we separated and talked to others, I did catch him sitting alone looking at me in a cute way. When I went to leave, I said bye to him, and he said have a good night/be safe etc and went to give me a one armed hug. I reached up and gave him a 2 armed hug (he is a foot taller than I am) and laughed and said "let me love you!" which made him laugh, and he tried to hide that he was laughing. That said, one of the first things he said last night was that he is going back to his place (4 hrs away) either this afternoon or tomorrow. He's been in town for a week, and stays with his mom, so I get it, but was kinda sad - we have MC today and I was hoping we could hang out afterwards, but who knows. We will see.
I do have some intel I shouldn't - he had drinks w/ a mutual friend on Tuesday. He isn't doing very well, having a depressive episode. Was in bed depressed all day the Sunday of my birthday, which is why he hadn't realized it was my birthday until way later that day. Friend said H expressed being way more open to working on stuff now - but we will see what he says in MC today. Friend said everything I have prepped for today's MC sounds like everything he needs to hear (I'd gone over what I was gonna say earlier in the week). Most of our friends don't know full details of what's going on, but this friend does, and is a good emotional person for H to talk to. I am cautiously optimistic for today, and hoping he is coming with an open mind, and I can do the same.
I know I am not supposed to care wtf H does at a party, but I am not there yet.
Post MC update bullet points:
-H is upset that I talked to a cousin about Christmas party - only told cousin the same story he tells people, which is he moved for work and we are going through some stuff. H's mom has taken that as a green light to tell everyone details, but I am getting blamed for that. I'd talked to cousin around Thanksgiving, and he must have just found out. I understand why he's mad, but it resulted in me officially being told I am not going. He hadn't told people in his family - which I didn't know, given how involved his mom has been (she also talks). He said his family can be catty. MC said to set boundaries with them. I later said I am not scared to be around them.
-I went ahead and said what I had to say - we can't file until April, why not try? We have fun, and he is using old info to continue at this impasse. I had said more about some mistakes I made (not enough words of affirmation in marriage), and how my actions didn't align with my feelings, and that's why I feel optimistic about fixing my parts.
-He said he has a ton of fun when we are out (then named several reasons why which was flattering) but that it's been a relief to not come home to me - bc that was stressful and negative. I validated, and said that there are a lot of steps in between us getting a beer and him coming home, and made that very clear. I said I would want to take things one step at a time. I said I don't want him to jump straight into the pool - I want to go toe by toe, and he can get out of the pool at any time.
-H said he has been sad, had a hard time, had a depressive episode a week and a half ago.
-H genuinely listens and absorbs when we go, so seemed overall less negative towards the end.
-We are not going to MC any more, unless we get to a point where we need it. Since we are still at impasse, it's pointless. H said if we end up going on a few dates, we can make another appt.
We then came to "my" house for him to get the dogs, and we talked further. This talk was shorter, but a lot more productive?:
-H took my printed out 'steps' or things it would take to R to read.
- I said it's too painful to continue to interact so much about the dogs, so I am not going to watch them anymore. This hurts, because I love them, but I think it's for the best for now. He validated/understood.
-I said I'd booked a camping trip for NYE and he's invited if he wants to go - I am gonna go anyhow, and didn't want him to feel he can't. I doubt he will, and that's actually OK with me.
-I finally had the courage to ask if he is 100% done. He said he "thinks so." I asked do you think so or are you? And he said he didn't know. I said that is OK to say.
-I asked: how would he like to handle things going forward? I got a surprising answer. He said he isn't opposed to getting beers, and that he has block leave for the holidays and will be in town starting next Wednesday or Thursday. I made zero reaction to this. He then went on to say that I will hear for him and he will definitely reach out and schedule it (since he had done a bad job at this before and I said it was hurtful in MC).
I feel better that we do not have a next 'scheduled' reason to see each other, and that anything logistics or appointment related is now off of the table - no saving stuff for counseling, no dog interactions, which are all pleasant. Do I think he will schedule something? I don't know, and am going to take things one step at a time and quit stressing about the future for now. I can go more N/C now, which will hurt less - less opportunity for rejection, less stress about will he/won't he, etc. He is going to his place and doing nothing over the weekend, so I know has time to think. On the way out, I can tell he was waiting to see if I would hug him, and I did not. He said thank you for telling him all of the things I did in counseling today.
I know this distance will be good for me. I have a lot of GAL things planned (as I have been), so I am not sitting around all lonely and stuff. I am fortunately to have an amazing set of great friends. I am allowing myself to feel awful and shitty tonight, and then tabling that. He has still not remotely acknowledged that this has been hard for me, and I need to come to terms that he probably never will. My copy of DR finally came in the other day, so I was able to read it.
HI SamCal, Just to let you know i'm following your story and am heartened by your stance and steps you are taking. It appears to me that as you create distance and detachment he finds a reason to keep a dialogue of sorts going. I think when he has time to think to himself reality will bite. What i'm discovering with this forum, is that there are lots of us going through our own personal pain but having an outlet to share and be supported is amazing and to know that we can diarise our turmoils with guidance from those who have trodden similar paths gives me much cause for optimism in my personal growth. Hang in there, you are doing great
Thanks Chaz - I don't know how intentional he is about stuff, and am trying to not think about it.
I do feel better today and yesterday. For as crap as I felt after seeing him, I did realize that, at the end of all of that day, the last interaction that we had, there was an appearance of progress: him saying he's open to hanging out, owning his crappy communication/follow through on that, and saying both of these things in response to a very broad quasi unrelated question. Before, I'd bring up hanging out, and get some blow-off excuses non-answer. This time, he brought it up, seemed clear and sincere. But, those are just words - we will see what actually happens. Trying to let go of any expectations.
Nothing really new to report - feeling pretty angry yesterday and today, as H has been paid, but not yet paid me what he owes me for the phone bill and also I got a notice that he hasn't paid the internet bill since leaving, which was the only bill in his name. I am so disappointed in how he's acted with all of this - I understand he is having a hard time, too, but he can't even keep the statements he makes of his own accord. He said last week multiple times he would pay me yesterday. I don't want to contact him about it anymore or again. We haven't had any contact since Sunday (Sunday he texted about something I was picking up from his coworker that was prearranged before). At this point, if he does contact me to hang out like he said he would, I don't think I want to see him. I spent yesterday evening reading Love Must be Tough.
Updating/journaling regardless of this thread not being wildly popular (I think in part b/c I don't comment on others', but I don't feel I am in a place to give advice to anyone about this stuff):
-H did finally pay me Friday afternoon.
-H was in town Friday for his work's xmas party. I saw he came into the house and got the dog food I had ordered (he left before it came in last week) and a bunch of suits. I immediately panicked and felt awful. I did find out later the suits were impromptu and for another coworker. He didn't take anything else. He hasn't told me the past 3 times that he's been in the house (but I'd seen it on the camera).
He and I have never discussed boundaries/him coming to the house when I am not here. I'd mentioned in MC offhand "why have a key if you do not live or stay here?" I ordered new deadbolts that come today. It's been 2 months since BD/incident so he at this point has legally abandoned all of his stuff and had opportunities to get the rest, but I've not said anything. I feel anything I say or do is just used as ammo against me. The locks I feel OK about because since he wasn't telling me he was coming in, I think it's a reasonable reaction to coming home to stuff missing. There's no point in telling him, since again he doesn't live nor stay here.
I chose to stay here in the house for Xmas and not go to my parent's house. I used to work retail so holidays alone aren't abnormal for me. I've ordered a lot of puzzles to do (my fave).
That said, I feel so down and disappointed. I know I shouldn't expect stuff, but he was so sincere about contacting me to hang out in response 'what to do going forward' question. As of today, it's been an entire month since we hung out together on purpose (after counseling at a brewery for several hours). It's been the longest NC thus far (a week). I do wonder if he thinks it's odd that I didn't text him anything about stuff being missing from the house, or that I didn't thank him for paying me for his phone.
I do genuinely think there is no OW, since this BD was a direct result of something that I did to him. Deep down, I do believe he doesn't know what he wants, and is keeping me on the hook. He's made no movement to continue to move on or work on us. His boss had spoken to him about not leaving people in limbo about stuff, and was speaking about how H had a bunch of stuff in H's office (and implying stuff with me), and apparently that did prompt H to get his items out of the office some time last week.
Last week's MC did show me how angry he still is, and how he has just spent the past 2 months running from his feelings and not doing anything. I am trying to be loving and patient, but this situation is painful for me, and he cannot see or acknowledge that. I am committed to doing nothing, even though some days I want to just say gtfo. I've kept my word on not asking to do stuff anymore, and am giving him maximum space. I don't want to be the one who calls it quits - at least not now, anyhow. He is very good at playing the victim, and I don't want to give him another chance to do so. In my heart, I do believe he thinks he will want to come back at a later time. When our mutual friend had drinks with him 1.5 weeks ago, mutual friend mentioned how many times H used the phrase 'if we get back together,' which he had not used to anyone before. I don't think H realizes that the longer he takes, the less there is to come back to. There's no way to directly articulate 'hey you are losing me btw' without it sounding like an ultimatum, and IDK if my NC reads that way. I'm glad I didn't react to him on Friday, or break down and contact him to hang out yesterday, and hope I am able to stay the course the rest of the break. I took off Monday, so don't work again until Thursday. I am using this hermit time to my advantage, but will get out of the house some, too. Just needed to get this all out. I have IC tomorrow afternoon.
Hey S,
Glad to her you’re not struggling too much over the holidays, most LBS have a really tough time during the holidays so that’s a plus for you.
You are doing well not reaching out to him. No pressure, no pursuit. If he does reach out to hangout, make sure you are in good spirits with a PMA. He is struggling with his own issues now and things may not change until he looks inward and focuses on his own issues. Unfortunately you cannot influence his self reflection and he will hopefully work through it at some time.
You sound like you have a great handle on releasing control and leaving him alone which is great. Focus on yourself and continue changing your behaviors to be the best version of yourself you can. If he sees you happy and growing as a person, he may realize that you are not the cause of his unhappiness.
The comment about If we get back together is interesting. For most of us, when our S leaves, they are at that time DONE with us. I wouldn’t read into it too much because their thinking can be all over the place, but a part of him is considering a future with you. It sounds as if he is very confused but could be moving in the right direction. It’s up to you when to give up, but know if you stand, this will be a long process.
Continue to detach and focus on yourself. If he reaches out, great. If not, try to focus on yourself. Happy holidays
Journaling -
I did a lot of anti-DBing the past few days.
I did end up calling him Monday morning just to see what was up. He always answers the phone for me, so it isn't hours waiting around for a text reply. He was going Xmas shopping with his mom. I didn't say anything about hanging out at first - just felt things out. He said he had been out of it for a few days, and that he hadn't forgotten about me, but that he was waiting on some $ and felt broke. I said OK, I understand, and listed a few free things we could do (nature preserve, come watch a movie), and have said I'd pay, even though I know him feeling emasculated b/c I make more $ than him has been an issue in the past. He said all of my free suggestions sounded too "date-y." I said OK, then what would you like to do, because those are all things I've done with only friends? He said he didn't know. I asked if he had an idea of time frame b/c I am going out of town next week and do work some this week. He said again I don't know. He gets in this "I don't know" spiral where I don't think he doesn't want to answer, I do think he genuinely just doesn't know and isn't being bothered to figure it out. We got off the phone. Afterwards, I texted asking if I could drop his/his mom's/dogs Xmas presents off at his mom's house (this is where he stays when he is in town) while they were out shopping. He said yes, so I did. This hit me really, really hard. She goes overboard decorating and it just made me miss everything. I texted him a bit after that and asked if I could speak to his mom. We texted about it for a while (nicely), and he said yes. I had IC, then went over to her house. I know DB says to not talk to family, but I felt I needed to speak to her. He has involved her/told her a lot, so there wasn't any new info. My objective was for her to see where I am at now. I was there for 2 hours. She and I don't have a super close relationship, but I do know that she likes me and believes (or used to?) that I am good for H. Overall, it went very well. She seemed impressed at how much work I've done on myself, how serious I am, and how much I do really know H. She did say she would talk to him, even though I expressed I wasn't sure if I wanted her to. It did sound like he had opened up to her more than I thought he had - because a lot of things I said, she already knew about and H had said the same things to her. She said we need to see each other more and talk. She knows I am willing. I think she was surprised at how hurt I still am, and I think she does feel for me. I opened up more about my past marriage, too. I didn't ask for any intel or anything like that. I did also want to maintain this relationship with her in case things do go fully south, because I'd need to coordinate some stuff with her (it'd be too hard to do this with H). She always states she wants what's best for both of us, and she did also say that she feels in a better place to give him actual advice since she has heard both sides now (which do line up). H and his mom have had a rocky relationship in the past, and only had started healing it when H and I started dating. I expressed being frustrated that it's been 2 months and H still seems miserable and not doing anything to explore how he feels either way. H's mom is religious, and we had a talk about that, too (I am not).
Yesterday, I went and did some stuff alone and talked to my dad - I hadn't spoken to my parents with any updates since Thanksgiving since there wasn't much to tell. One of the things that H's mom had said, was that she had asked H if H had reached out to my parents, specifically my dad (H's dad passed away before I knew him, and H has a good relationship with my dad). H said he felt he couldn't since H had told me I couldn't speak to his mom. I cleared that up with her, and did text H yesterday saying he is always welcome to speak to my dad, because he is a good listener and gives good advice. I also said I hope his back feels better (he told me Monday he has a slipped disc) and that he has a merry Xmas Eve. He later texted back saying "hey, thanks for texting me, I hope you have a nice evening, too." I ended up doing something cool with his boss/boss's family (weird to say it like that but I've been friends with his boss for a long time, that's how I know him, and his boss married us). I called H on the way back from said activity, and we had a nice upbeat-ish chat. He said he was still out of it, but I asked about his day, etc. I wasn't asking for anything, just hearing how he was doing, and he asked about me. It was maybe 5 minutes long. I got off the phone first.
This morning I texted him saying Merry Xmas and that I wish we could have spent some of it together. He hasn't replied, and I am sure he won't. I know that was also an anti-DB statement, but I don't regret saying it. His mom did text me wishing me a Merry Xmas. He went to his dad's family's today, and I normally go, so I wonder how he's handling the inquiries about me, but I didn't ask and won't.
One of the pieces of advice from his mom was sad: she said, "I know this is not nice to say, but I learned a long time ago to stop expecting H to do stuff, that way I am not let down, and I am just here if he needs me." That's the approach I am trying to take. I am dropping the expectation of him initiating hanging out while he is in town on this break, even though he expressed wanting to. I may ask for us to sit down and have a talk, but not a long super serious one. I may play it by ear. I am in charge of running group tomorrow, and I wonder if he will show up because he knows I am there.
I have really struggled more these past few days, and I think it's because I've had a lot of alone time at home, and feel like I've gotten a lot worse. I look forward to working tomorrow and Friday, and am going out of town for New Year's, alone. (that was part of my convo with H on Monday - was that while he has off until the 2nd, I am not available the entire time). My dad commended me on how patient I have been (my biggest life struggle is impatience), and it is definitely hard.
The past several days have been a whirlwind. Updates:
*He did call me Christmas evening to meet up with me. He thanked me for his presents, and said let's go get a drink. We did. We had a blast, and always have a good time just hanging out. He did, however, say that he really misses me, physically, and while he feels the same about his mindset, wanted to tell me that. I'd previously said (and meant) that I was OK with physical stuff during this as long as we are upfront. We went home, had sex, had a very long, good talk, and had more sex. In the talk, he said everything I'd suspected but needed to hear: he loves me, misses me, still feels the same, says everyone thinks he's being shitty, said he hasn't told people much b/c he doesn't want to look like a wimp, hasn't fully left yet because he is taking this seriously because we are married, knows his feelings may change for the better so doesn't want to call it quits too soon, even talks about me staying with him in his house far away if I want to see my IC in person (I Skype him, he lives in a diff part of state, but not near H). I listen, hold him, and validate. He clearly needed those things. He takes me to get my car in the morning, says he has IC that day, I make a joke about 'don't let her yell at you for banging me.' (Usually I feel there's significant backslide after he has IC).
*Thursday day, his family came to my work. Mom and bro said H is grumpy b/c thinks Mom is now on 'my side.' Was glad to hear this purely b/c H hadn't said anything about that during the previous night. Family now rooting for us to be together now that she's heard my side. Mom did tell him to call me on Xmas, he told her he was going to anyhow. His mom reinvites me to fam Xmas party on Sunday - I say I can't just show up.
*Thursday night - running group, I am one of the people running it. I stay away from H for the most part - am aloof/cordial but not cold. Afterwards, we all go to bar, and I get a nice level of fun drunk, and we do karaoke until midnight. H offers to take me home since I couldn't drive (was gonna uber), he ends up staying. On the ride home, he mentions how he missed having fun with me and he's glad we are being more social, as that was something he missed/was hurt by. Takes me to my car in the morning, is very sweet.
Saturday day, I call him in the morning b/c he messages me about watching the dogs during Xmas party. I tell him mom invited me, and asked if I could go, b/c wouldn't want to without his OK. He is initially angry/hesitant, but then softens. I ask many times and ensure it's OK. He says yes, then goes into a long story about how he is stressed about money, and it seems that's why he was so grumpy. I said come over and let's just hang out. He does. He immediately launches into wanting to talk (so I listen and validate) even though the point was to just hang. During this talk, he says more about money. I ask if he is scared to leave b/c I am a financial safety net. He says no. He opens up about not ever having to be alone as an adult with adult bills, and how he is trying to get through that. He says he is scared of falling back into old bad habits with me. I validate and say I am on the same page, and that I put a lot of time and effort to examine my pieces of that (that I shared with him during every MC session) and that I am not worried about my part at least. I cook us lunch, we eat, and then he starts another 20 min convo about specific joint finance actions if we get back together (this day was the first day he's ever used that phrase directly to me, and he did many times). I listened, agreed b/c it's what I'd want to do, too. It was nice to hear b/c this was a convo sans alcohol, and it at least showed that he has considered getting back together on some level, and put detailed thought into it. We go run errands and chill, then separate for the night.
Sunday morning I get ready for the party and go over there and call him on the way b/c I was early. He said he was out of the house b/c he was being super grumpy. We meet up, go in house together (party is at his mom's where he stays). He is being insane grumpy boss to everyone, hadn't taken his medicine. He starts to be grumpy at me, I ask if he'd rather I leave, he says no. He gets in shower, I try to leave anyhow b.c of him snapping at me, too, mom asks me to stay, so I do. Party begins, mid party I feel not great and go lay down briefly, H comes and finds me. H apologizes for the morning grumpiness, says he is very glad that I am there and that he should have realized how much more fun it'd be with me there (I created a drinking game based around his mom's typical phrases which did definitely enhance the time), then goes into how grateful he is for me in general and how supportive I've been. Very articulate, sweet, well thought out, so I appreciated that. At the end of the party, annual group pics come. H gets grumpy b/c now he's drank a lot, but I get in the pictures anyhow b/c his mom asks me to, and his bro's GF is also in them and they haven't been together super long. After everyone leaves, he wants to talk, so I listen. He then goes on what constitutes a 3-4 hour manic meltdown. I listened, validated. He just had a lot he needed to get out. Gist was he feels trapped at his mom's, doesn't want to go to his house 4 hours away, doesn't feel super comfortable at our house. Says he knows he's been manic the past 2 weeks and that it's getting worse. Opens up a ton more about his dad and his dad's abuse/treatment of him, and how he doesn't know if he can forgive what I did because of that. Says he has not talked about his dad in his IC (I do step in and say that'd need to be handled for us to progress, which is true). Says he feels isolated by his friends, no one listens/cares but me and his IC. He did snap at me some, and I said that is not OK to do. I said I will listen, but not be snapped at. When this is mostly done, we take a car ride, go get fries, etc. At the end of the night when I think things have calmed down, he then snapped at me again for trying to throw trash away myself outside. He goes in mom's house, slams door, I go to leave. He comes right back out, apologizes, hugs me. said he knows I am going through a lot, too, and he feels gulity that he can't be there for me. I said I know and understand, and that if I thought I couldn't handle emotionally listening, I'd leave. I have a lot of other support, so it's OK. I do like hearing him talk because it helps me understand more, see he's self aware, and take things less personally. We agree (I THOUGHT) that he'd call me in the morning to discuss dogs b/c I was supposed to camp Mon and Tues nights. He said if he feels comfortable he may stay at our house while I am gone, and I encourage that because I think he needs some space and it would also help him get more comfortable here.
Yesterday I never hear from him, and a situation arose where I did give my cabin up last night to someone else. I finally text around 3 and say don't worry about the dogs, as I haven't heard from you. He texts back saying he thought we had definitive plans. I call and say no, you said you'd call, but I am not angry. I then tell him I canceled camping and he BLOWS UP and hangs the phone up. Won't answer my calls. He then texts that he had IC and that he thinks I will never respect his boundaries and that I just do what I want b;/c I went to the party even though he didn't want me to. I text back nicely, validate, but do defend myself without being combative in terms of ensuring it was OK before I went, multiple times. I said I know he's going through a lot, and that he is very up and down, and I am here for him. I do actually suspect that he was upset about not being able to stay at our house and blew up at me about it. I wasn't sure if I want to camp tonight still, but I think it's good to go get my space and give myself a rest from the rapid developments over the past several days. I've now seen he can be self aware, and it helps temper my expectations. I did take yesterday overly hard b/c I still felt pretty fragile from the night before, and we had also discussed seeing each other Wednesday for a date, and didn't want that retracted. However, I think he wasn't actually going to tell me about the boundary piece of his IC, and used that as an excuse to blow up. I am still OK being patient and compassionate, and didn't blow up back at him.
I am aware that he uses me as an emotional outlet, and it's a weird spot because he has isolated himself, and has had a suicide attempt before, so I do want to be there but don't want to be caught in a cycle where he still feel he 'needs' me. He hasn't said that, and we did have a lot of emotional distance in the past several months. I am glad that over the past several days we have opened the lines of communication, at least.
I believe you handled things well. Keep up the listening and validation.
Two things that you should consider as you go along:
1) Always be the first to leave or end the conversation.
2) Decline some percentage of invitations.
I wish you well.
R2C, thank you. I've been trying #1 and it's def hard. I wish I had more opportunities to exercise #2!
He came by this afternoon and now I feel so, so much worse. He didn't realize I was home and he was coming to get the dogs. He came w/ a friend who he sometimes stays with here when his mom gets to be too much. He had never responded to my texts yesterday, and so I did try to talk to him about stuff (not R stuff but more of the anger he has at me right now re: boundary) and was definitely too clingy and coming from a fearful place. He is SO mad at me right now still for this crossing of a boundary that he said was OK to do? And he doesn't take ownership of any of it, and holds me responsible for him not enforcing his boundary? I said I really tried to ensure that it was OK, so I am confused. It is almost like he wants a reason to be mad at me, or is taking other anger out on me. We did both snap a little bit at each other, but also both tried to not? At the end when he was leaving, I asked what he wants to do going forward (we had plans to hang tomorrow that he didn't remember, and said he didn't know if he wants to do them now so I said well then let's talk for a minute, and that's when it escalated more). He said he didn't know, and I said well am I just supposed to pack up all of your stuff? And he angrily said sure and that he'd get it tomorrow. I said no, I don't want that. I did go to his car and kiss him on the cheek and say I was sorry and that I loved him, and that I didn't want to fight.
This was a bad backslide, and I am SO scared that he is harboring this much anger over something that frankly I do not understand. I don't understand being SO mad at me for doing something he said it was OK to do MULTIPLE times. It underlines how I feel about his IC (what IC says to blame other people for your own actions) being toxic. I am scared that this anger is clouding his mind and that he will forget all of the good things from this week. It's so hard to not text him and say I am so scared. I am having people over tonight, so I will be distracted soon and fully able to resist, but I feel so, so, so scared and bad. I know I have felt this way before about him being mad and then it subsided, but I feel I have more to lose right now.
One of the keys is to not try and understand it. Just accept that he is angry and will blame you for it. That does not mean it is true. That also does not mean you have to be angry back. Do not get pulled into his emotional state. Just validate his emotions.
W:"I can see why that would make you angry" or "I am sorry that made you angry"
Enjoy your friends tonight!
Thank you. I wanted to try to understand so I dont make the same mistake over, but you're right - this one is irrational and out of left field so it doesnt matter. I had fun with friends but this was still weighing on me big time. I did cave a minute ago and call him - I tried not to, but I was focusing on all of the negatives. I'm actually glad I called - he answered (I was over hyping his anger to levels where I thought he wouldnt answer) and I kept it upbeat and short. I said I wasnt OK with how I acted earlier today, and that I'm sorry that I made him angry and that his feelings are important to me. He said thank you and that he appreciated me saying that to him. I said I wasnt ready to talk about some stuff because of the other night and shouldnt have pushed a talk for either of us (wasnt a R talk but was emotions based). I asked what he was up to, he said sitting on friends couch. I said I was glad hes able to stay there, and he said yeah, it's nice to not have nobody (said as upbeat joke tbh). I then said I hope he has a nice new years eve and he wished me the same and we got off the phone. I feel worlds better about owning my piece of todays interaction, both to myself and him. I also now feel more reassured that he isnt just stewing angry and that I was obsessing over that. We do still need a talk about boundaries. Idk what will happen next but I can calm down for now at least.
Interesting quick update - he texted me at midnight saying Happy New Years. I was asleep so answered it this morning and said same to you - I'd like to take you to lunch or for coffee if you're up to it. I then went on a jog with a friend and left my phone in the car. When we were done, he had texted back and also called, saying he would like to. I was very relieved.
We meet up for lunch, and he brings a book that his IC gave him about C-PTSD so he can show me. When we walk in, he immediately says he is sorry for how he acted yesterday and that he hadn't taken his medicine and was also caught off guard by me. I said I was caught off guard, too, and not prepared. He said he wanted to also address that I maybe was taken off guard by his friend being there, too, as I've voiced not wanting him to bring people over when I am not there. He opened up more about his IC, and how he felt about yesterday, and I did more talking than I normally do. I opened up about that, and about how glad I am that we are talking more and how it helps me understand, and I thanked him for showing me the book. We finished lunch and switched convo to silly group gossip. He is back at his mom's instead of his friend's and isn't sure how long he will be in town, so I let him know it's OK if he wants to stay over at our house any. He asked what I was doing the rest of the day, and I said no plans. He said he may go socialize w/ some of our friends and then go home and read the book. We left it at that. I feel a lot better - I know my feelings should not be so tied to his treatment of me, but I spiraled last night about worrying that everything was ruined. We both owned our behavior yesterday, and are still making efforts, and I think that's a good thing.
Still not sure how I feel. Had a tense phone call w/ H yesterday - he had just gotten out of counseling when I called him. He is working through his issues stemming from his dad's abuse. I asked how to best support him, and he said he didn't know. He did say he didn't want to be vindictive but then said I need to just wait while he works through 20 years of emotional baggage - funny b/c I didn't take any offense to this like he thought. What do you think I've been doing thus far? He still isn't sure about anything, but did say he is careful to not hold me accountable for stuff his dad did (his dad is deceased). He said he knows he's emotionally volatile and tries to see me when he feels he can/wants to, because he knows sometimes he overanalyzes stuff that I am doing in a negative way and avoids me when he thinks that will happen so as to not make things worse. I appreciate this. I keep a lot of my feelings in with him, but this distance is so hard. He knows I am working on myself during this time, but sometimes I don't think he realizes how detrimental this all is. In my heart, I do think he wants to be with me and just doesn't know how right now. We talked a bit more, and then I asked a genuine question: I asked if he wants me to wait for him. He freaked out, said what do you think I am doing all of this for, and hung up. I see now how he would feel insulted, but it was a genuine question on my part, because sometimes I really cannot tell if he wants me to just move on or not. It's been helpful now that we communicate more, but since we aren't going to MC any more, there isn't an outlet for stuff. He goes back to his house 4 hours away either today or tomorrow. I wish I could have seen him again during this time, but I know he needs space to work through stuff. I'd read up on C-PTSD and sent an article and asked his opinion on it, so we did discuss that on the phone.
Hearing where he's at keeps me going in this process. I feel in the past week I have let him have too much control over my emotions. I think him being here and not seeing me makes things harder for me - it's one thing when he's 4 hours away, but another when he's around. I am careful to not say how damaging this is because I don't want to pressure him. He said he doesn't want to rush things with me, and I agreed. I am struggling right now because it feels like every toxic dating relationship I've been in where someone doesn't choose me, but I choose them. Marriage is a choice, and every day I choose him, still, and I know he isn't even capable of choosing anything right now. I don't want him to feel guilty or bad about what I am going through, because I am stronger than he is right now, and he is going through so much.
Nothing new to report really. The same day as my previous post, I asked if we could talk. Since we aren't going to MC, I had some things I wanted to say to him before he went back to his place far away, which was the day after last post. I asked if he would listen, because most of the time, I was listening/validating and not saying much. I'd been pretty quiet about stuff I was going through to him, and I knew he was curious. We spoke for about an hour - I mostly opened up about what I've been doing in IC (this wasn't new info but was way more in depth), about how I fit into what he's going through ( we agreed on how I don't enable him in his people pleasing, how he didn't choose me b/c I fit an abusive archetype and he hasn't typically sought those out anyhow). I did touch on how painful this is for me, but very much underplayed my hand. He genuinely listened, and was thankful at the end that I shared what I shared. He did emphatically say that when he is ready to talk about stuff, he will reach out to me.
The following day I texted him a question about the dog's tags, and he answered it the day after that nicely. I've been giving him space/leaving him alone which generally means N/C, but I also don't hold myself back if I strongly want to say something to him via text. Wednesday I texted "been thinkin about you - the news is scary" (H is military). I felt OK saying this b/c it wasn't related to some deep convo, and I wasn't going to be upset if he didn't reply/engage. The following morning he wrote back "Thanks for telling me that - yes, it is scary and is adding to my (mostly unfounded) dread." I didn't say anything back. I've been crystal clear when we interact that I am here, and I actually do not believe he sees me as plan B of some type. I think he needs to mentally work through whatever he needs to work through whatever obstacles he has before coming back to me (he's said as much, and that seems clear when we interact, but who knows). But, I'll never know for sure. He did say he does not need to work out his entire set of childhood issues to come back - my point to him was that I am sure this will be a long ongoing process re: childhood stuff and that I am here for him.
I did find out that on the 1st, he went and hung out with one of my best friends. I'd suggested he talk to her (she suggested it to me as well) because she had gone through some serious stuff with her boyfriend over the summer and did a lot of work on boundary setting, and some other similar issues, and was able to work through it on her end. So H goes and sees the friend and the friend's BF, and friend tells me later that it was kind of strange - friend has known H for as long as I have. Friend said H was awkward and kind of manic/insecure (this isn't abnormal for him, though), and that friend was just trying to relax/hang out. H immediately asked friend to essentially rip into him about our M/asked advice. Friend set boundary of saying she just wanted to hear how H was doing but nothing about our M.
I do find it odd that H immediately sought friend's advice, and expected/asked for her to yell at him about it. Surely he can reason what friend would say e.g. is on the side of R. After seeing friend this week, she did decide on her own that she will listen/give advice to him (in a small capacity), and friend reached out to H via text on Thursday. H and friend were supposed to talk via phone yesterday, but my H stood her up (glad it's not just me he does this to!). H can get very spirally about his ADHD, and he is in town this weekend for work, so I am sure H will try to get ahold of friend sometime soon, but I don't really expect anything out of this. I don't think he will tell her anything I don't already kind of know - I am more interested in hearing her direct opinion of how he is mentally/her take. Sometimes I am worried I am just in denial/delusional about everything, and hearing her take may help me with that. H also has monthly mtg w/ his boss this weekend (boss is one of my BFFs, too), and usually that involves life advice.
A few of our other mutual friends want to reach out to H - I asked them to not all do this at once so it doesn't look suspicious. H does open up to them and openly ask for advice, and most have said gently to work it out, but ultimately obv that's H's decision and not something he can do until he feels he's mentally ready. I don't even know what he needs to get mentally ready, and I wonder if he himself even knows.
I've been keeping busy and having fun with my friends all week - did something every night so I am taking some much needed alone time on this stormy day.
I am trying to be patient and compassionate, and haven't really struggled with it this week. I have tickets to an orchestra event next weekend, and I'd mentioned it to H over the holidays to see if he wanted to go with me, and he was interested, but I haven't brought it up again yet. I will wait until mid-week. If he doesn't want to go, I can bring a friend. Next weekend is a holiday weekend, so he will probably be in town/can come to town.
I feel stronger about doing this for longer than I thought, but I don't feel grand about it overall. I wish he'd stayed at our house this weekend. I wish this every time he's in town. It's ridiculous and I am tired of wishing for stuff I don't have. I am fortunate to have great friends/job/life etc., at least. I read an article about staying with someone who isn't meeting your needs. It said if you can meet your own needs while working alongside partner who is blocked from being present, then do so. Friend asked how I felt about that. I said marrying someone in the military means having to do that, and knowing that you'll have to, so I am not worried about it - the part that makes this currently hurtful is that we aren't working along side each other; he's choosing to work alone, and make me work alone, too.
IDK how things are going right now. He never talked to my friend - he blew her off. I didn't contact him 2 weekends ago when he was in town for work. Middle of last week I asked if he wanted to still go to event on Saturday. He replied that he wasn't sure - he said he wants to go, but has turbulent feelings about me and is trying to work through them and it's very hard. I said ok, thank you for telling me that.
Saturday I call him and he answers - I'd woken him up. He didn't realize the event was midday, and was at his place 4 hours away, so wasn't going to make it. He hadn't fully decided yet anyhow. We chat and caught up normally for like an hour - totally jovial. He did say some insane comment about wanting to apply for a job in another state, but I am not reading in to this b/c he would sometimes say that when things were fine as just a temporary career move. He did talk some about predeployment, and instead of detailing his entire life plan without me like he has before, he just said a lot of things are up in the air. We hang up, I end up calling back later in the day and saying IDK how much I should tell him about how I feel, b/c I don't want to come off manipulative, but then is it manipulative to hold it back? We have an open discussion. He brings up Myers Briggs, remembered what mine was, said he'd researched his and mine together, etc. I thought this was interesting - he's at least trying to understand me? IDK. He then got mad later in the convo when he perceived that I was diminishing what I'd done to him - I wasn't, it was a sort of adjacent topic, but I validated. Went to event. I don't remember why I had to call him afterwards but he immediately wanted to know who I went with b/c I'd mentioned picking up someone earlier. I went with a girlfriend, but he'd seemed nervous?
Sunday I tried to call, he sent it to VM and texted saying he was still upset about the day before but could text. I said I'd wanted to talk about something. He said he was v nervous to talk, I asked why, he said because he didn't want to be hurt again b/c it's terrifying. I validated and said OK. Sunday night I decided to send him a letter I'd written as on of my exercises about emotional abuse - saying I hadn't sent it, and assumed he wouldn't talk to me again after he read it. It was a letter I'd written about taking responsibility for each detailed action, validating how he felt, and then what I was doing about it. IDK if he read it. No contact and I wanted to leave him alone. I thought because of his reaction on Saturday thinking I was diminishing things that maybe that's what he needed to see? IDK.
Today he texted me saying we need to see what's up about taxes. I said not sure what you mean. He said we need to see if we want to file jointly or separately (I usually do our taxes and see which one makes more financial sense). He said if separately, he needs to know some things about it, and that he did a mock up of his and he owes. This was the weirdest thing he could have texted me. I am the financial person in our relationship, I'd just sent a heartfelt email, and I get texted about taxes, full of the word WE? Irrational me wanted to say oh are we making joint decisions now? Since when? There are 100 reasons I can imagine why he would have texted this - it's not like him to GAF about taxes, especially this early - also why would I make a joint financial decision with you? I did eventually reply and said I am still waiting on forms (which is true).
Update - H emailed me Friday saying he had been in the hospital the night before. Turns out he has some long term condition that is more annoying than anything else, and he is fine, but wanted to keep me in the loop of it. I texted him during work about it, and then called when I left work. We chat for about 30 minutes, casually.
Saturday morningish I called him to check up and see how he was doing. We caught up for about an hour. Nothing relationship-y at all. I did manage to sneak in there that I am not angry anymore, but this is something I think he can tell. He did voice that he will be in town this upcoming weekend and wants to meet up at an event on Saturday, so that was nice. He had also told me about a movie he thought I'd like. Later that afternoon, he texted me about a show he thought I'd like, too - this is probably the first text he initiated that isn't about logistics or anything. The fact that he saw show, thought of me, and then acted on texted me seems like progress. Later that night I texted saying I did watch the movie and had a lot of thoughts about it. He then called me to discuss it, and we talked for another hour. It was the cute kind of talking - like when you have a crush on someone and want to keep talking even though it's late. I finally cut it off, and went to bed, but was excited about it. It's nice to reconnect like that, even though none of it was romantic. I was briefly worried about being friendzoned by my own H, but I think that's just fear. I made a comment about missing the dogs (which I normally do) and he suggested that he bring them over for the weekend while he is in town, so I am excited about that.
He has still not mentioned my apology letter, and I've decided I am taking his new attempts at connecting with me as an implicit apology. He did say he hasn't called our friend yet because he wants to get back on his ADHD meds, as he has run out, and I wonder if he is doing the same with talking to me. He gets them Thursday. I didn't hear from him Sunday, and I didn't text. He texted me about the dogs mid-day yesterday, and then at night asked for my help with a new device he has, so I called and we talked for about half an hour. It was all stuff he could have Googled, and it was talked through within approx 5 min, but then we just caught up more. I know he's lonely at his own place far away, and I am sure he's just excited to talk to someone, but I am glad it's me and that we are able to build on communication and he isn't scared to reach out.
He hasn't mentioned R, and I am not going to. Before, when I knew he was in town, I'd ask to try to hang out, but this time I am not - he mentioned the event Saturday, and will be at our running group Thursday (even though he cannot run currently). I somehow get the feeling he will try to stay here at the house, but I don't know why I feel that way. I am trying to not have any expectations, but these new developments make it difficult.
Hi SamCal,
I just read through your thread-- you are doing great! I had one thought though for you that maybe you can only see when you read through everything start to finish... it seems like every time he opens up or turns toward you a little, within in a day or two you turn up the pursuit a little too strong, he backs away, you are disappointed, there is some distance, and then the cycle starts all over again. It seems like you are possibly entering this cycle again-- can you challenge yourself to respond differently? Like if you do see him at the event or the running group, have fun, PMA, whatever, but drop any expectations (and definitely don't ask or call or text) about him coming over? If he does, have fun, say bye! when he goes and don't call or text him afterwards? Have a plan to call a friend instead, or write out the text but don't send it, or whatever... Just restrain yourself.
I think it is the hardest to drop expectations when they are starting to show interest, but that is also probably the most important time. You may have read on other threads about the squirrel or cat or whatever skittish animal comes over to you-- the last thing you want to do is grab it and freak it out forever. You calmly sit there and do your thing.
You got this!!
Hi SamCal,
I just read through your thread-- you are doing great! I had one thought though for you that maybe you can only see when you read through everything start to finish... it seems like every time he opens up or turns toward you a little, within in a day or two you turn up the pursuit a little too strong, he backs away, you are disappointed, there is some distance, and then the cycle starts all over again. It seems like you are possibly entering this cycle again-- can you challenge yourself to respond differently? Like if you do see him at the event or the running group, have fun, PMA, whatever, but drop any expectations (and definitely don't ask or call or text) about him coming over? If he does, have fun, say bye! when he goes and don't call or text him afterwards? Have a plan to call a friend instead, or write out the text but don't send it, or whatever... Just restrain yourself.
I think it is the hardest to drop expectations when they are starting to show interest, but that is also probably the most important time. You may have read on other threads about the squirrel or cat or whatever skittish animal comes over to you-- the last thing you want to do is grab it and freak it out forever. You calmly sit there and do your thing.
You got this!!
Thank you, May. I appreciate you commenting. You are 100% correct there - and I am challenging myself to respond differently for this weekend. I think because there's been more contact on his end that I feel less desperate, for lack of better word, and don't need that reassurance of jumping the gun on asking if he wants to stay etc. At running group it's fortunately very easy to be kinda detached from him (this was the norm there and why people don't exactly realize what's going on) - I am very well liked there, and since he's injured he won't be running, but I will be, and there are a lot of distractions. When he stayed over Christmas, it was his idea both times, and in the past I've been super clear that he is welcome in our home.
His boss is one of my best friends and how I know him, and therefore I am also friends w/ his boss's wife. Boss's wife texted me today re: this weekend, saying H mentioned wanting to go to Saturday's event. (historically, we all watch this as a group). H told friend that he needs to see if it's OK with his mom if he stays over this weekend - which is odd since I know he never asks, but just show's up (MIL told me this directly). Friend said well, you know you have a house you can stay in....he said "I know," and friend said something about being under the same roof and not even necessarily in the same bed, and H laughed and said he knew. This was some time last week. Last time she put that bug in his ear, he did stay over with me (after running group the day after Xmas).
I am wary of being friendzoned - H had that same fantasy everyone seems to have about us "being friends" and I made it crystal clear I could not be friends with someone who would walk away from our marriage. I believe I've been clear enough for him to believe that's still the case, but who knows. I think I can better assess this in person, so we will see. I don't think he took my statement of not being mad anymore as a statement of 'let's just be friends,' and this wasn't at the beginning of this increase in communication. Some of my friends think it's ridiculous that I am worried about this, and some think it's semi legit but all say to not worry.
I do wonder sometimes if he wants to come back but just doesn't know how to, and if that's why he is suddenly acting like this. I think about the sales world and the 'assumptive close,' and that's kind of how I am working right now. We will see - fortunately, since we don't have kids and I do have a ton of close friends, GAL is easy for me. I do also suspect he will see his IC when he is here, so who knows. It's a strange turn of his behavior towards me, but it does give me the reassurance to just let it be.
SamCal,
I have read bits and pieces of your thread, but I need to go start to finish. I totally understand your fear of the dreaded friendzone. Especially without kids in the picture. I think I am always afraid that it would be easier for the WS to just walk away from a marriage and say "well, that relationship didn't work out, so I'm single again". Whereas with children, the WS is still very much attached to a family dynamic. I agree with May, he has this back and forth action and you seem to jump in too soon (I'm soooo guilty of that as well). I think that we get our hopes up too soon and place expectation on what we so desperately want in our relationship or reconciliation. Good job working through your anger and getting to a place where you are so much more in control of your emotions and reactions. He could very well be feeling more safe to open up with you. The last four words in your last post are the goal. "Just let it be". Keep your head up friend.
KG
Thanks KG!
.
H ended up dropping the dogs off last night. He had texted saying he was leaving his city, and I was busy and didn't respond, so he called about 30 mins after that. He was super sweet and chatty, said he needed to know if he should give his mom a head's up if I wasn't watching the dogs, which I feel was a complete lie? Either way, he then asked if he could pick me up a special food item from a place between my city and his. I said thank you, that's thoughtful, and only if you're stopping anyhow. He then had to get off the phone due to a work call. The whole thing was just odd and so different than the past several months. I came home, ran, cleaned up the house. I'd had an incredibly frustrating last hour or so of work, so was already pretty keyed up, and just freaked out and didn't know what to expect.
When he got here, he didn't hug me, but stayed and chat some about work. Asked if I was going to running group tonight, or a different similar social activity. I said I wasn't sure, as my foot hurt after my run tonight. He said OK well I assume I will see you some time while I am here. Said he was tired, his back hurt, etc. He said he applied for a job opening in his office, and then for 5 others in different states. I said "what am I supposed to take away from that information?" But, he did the 5 other states as a bluff to his bosses....so OK, fine. He went to leave, and gave me the irritating side arm hug. He then walked towards the door, finished his glass of water, put the dish in the sink and hugged me again (same annoying side arm hug - which I totally ignore and do a full embrace to LOL).
It felt like how it felt months ago. It wasn't awkward, per se, but felt guarded to me, but maybe only because I thought it'd feel different after the past several days of chatty phone calls. Sometimes his tone is flirty on the phone, but never says anything flirty. I didn't cry when he left, but did have several ugly mean feelings that I just let myself feel. I thought I'd feel somewhat better this morning, but I only kind of do. I felt pretty angry last night - like why do I want to remain married to someone so immature and selfish, why would I get a crap side arm hug from my H who I haven't seen in an entire month, maybe he thinks he's doing me a favor by bringing the dogs here but it's just one less thing he is now responsible for this weekend, why does he just assume he will see me instead of trying to make actual plans, etc. I could spend a ton of mental energy dissecting why he did or didn't do stuff - maybe he is waiting for his meds to talk to me/be around me more (very probably tbh), he said he wanted to sleep in before his doctor's appt tomorrow which he knows he can't do here really, his mom's house is closer to the doctor's than our house, it's safer on the phone to talk and he needs to get comfortable again in person more, etc. etc. - but would rather not spend mental energy on it. I am glad that this occurred last night and not closer into the weekend so there will be some time lapse before we see each other again.
I did at least NOT mention going to dinner or planning something, nor did I remind him he can stay here, so that was a win for me - I guess.
I have a dilemma - in case any one reads this.
The event that H asked me about meeting up at is tomorrow. He also asked his boss's wife about it last week, me over the weekend and apparently another friend of ours last night. Typically, we all watch this event together. At first I was like OK cool he's actually trying to hang out, but now I am annoyed by it? All of these friends are on "my" side and think he's being immature, etc. I am not sure if I am even comfortable with him being around at this event in our nebulous situation. I feel I'd need more clarity with what is going on with us before hanging out in this group environment, but there isn't any non-weird way to address this. What should I do? I don't really think this is him using it as an excuse to see me or anything.
hey SamCal,
What are you thinking about doing? Not going? Or telling him not to go?
Here is what I would say. If you want to go, go. They're your friends. If you are there and it feels weird and you want to leave, leave. If you decide you don't want to go and want to go do something else fabulous instead, by all means do that.
What I wouldn't recommend doing? Calling him to talk to him about it and using this as an excuse to start an R talk. Just. Don't. I totally know the feeling. Resist!!!
Also, good job on your last interaction not mentioning dinner or planning anything. I know that was probably tough and you did it! I have another suggestion-- next time he goes in for the half arm hug, don't give him a full hug back.
I also know the low-level discontent you get when you think things are going in a certain way and they don't. You just have to live and breathe through it, try your very very best not to say or do anything when you are feeling like that, and then decide once you're on the other side of those feelings how you can respond. Remember that he's also in a totally confused place and even if this ends up going in the direction of R it is going to be two steps forward, one step back, so try not to dissect and analyze his tone, words, length of hug, whatever. Just keep focusing on you.
May - thank you. I was thinking of telling him not to go. I was avoiding talking about it because of why you said - I didn't want to turn it into an R talk. I think it's moot now.
I have a stressful situation going on at work. I went to dinner w. friends after work, and called H to vent about it (he doesn't know much). He was out with a mutual friend (who has been there a lot for me) and mutual friend was drunk, H wasn't. H said come meet up (also makes a joke about not having a definitive answer about the next bar, and that he knows that him not having a definitive answer for me is the nature of our relationship right now - I laughed). We all meet up at a different bar, and I was down in the dumps re: work situation. H was trying to overly be there for me saying I could vent etc. and that he didn't know if he was making it worse by being there or not, says he loves and cares for me, etc. says at the end of the day he is still my husband (FINALLY he says this). I said it doesn't matter. Proceed to drink more, take friend home, have long convo in the car. H has meltdown in the car about his health issues, he is scared about losing his job, etc. I listened/validated. He then brings up R stuff. I was able to say I don't want to be friendzoned. He says he still feels the same 95% done, but does have some hope inside, and that he had gotten comfortable talking to me more (hence the past week), but is now worried he is going to take a huge backslide due to this health stuff. Was very self loathing at parts - doesn't want to die young, wants to isolate himself so no one is hurt when he dies, etc. I was able to make other points that were important to me - how there isn't a huge difference in how he treats me now vs if we were divorced bc we dont talk much, and how I understand he needs to work on himself and get where he feels he can work on us, but why can't he work on himself beside me instead of away from me? I don't think he understood that. At the end, I didn't really feel better or worse.
I did call to see if he wants to get lunch today - he said no. I wasn't ever able to actually vent to him about work. He said maybe next weekend or the weekend after that b/c he will be in town both of those. I just said OK. I am assuming at this point he will not be contacting me or friends for the parade since he is now wallowing in self loathing alone today, which is fine by me.
We did not see each other at said event - but he did say he went to our usual spot but didn't see our group (we were on the other side of the street, and in costume, so easy to miss). I had a blast regardless, and didn't try to contact him.
Later on Saturday, I called H and said listen, I accept that you're choosing to not be in this marriage, and won't stand in your way, even though I want to remain your wife. This confused him. He said he isn't making a choice right now. I said not making a choice means he treats me for the most part like we are already D. It was a calm convo. He then asked what I was doing the following day, and said he wanted to come by the house around noon. I asked if he was sure, b/c the day before he said the house made him uncomfortable, and he said he was sure and was just in a weird mental place when he said that.
Yesterday, he came by. Began by working on his car outside, and then he started a long, emotional talk, but it was calm. Lots of tears on both of our parts. He said he knows it's unfair for me, and that every day he wonders if that will be the day I call him and say that I can't wait anymore. I said it's helpful when we are in more contact b/c then I can feel more compassion and understand where he's at. He said he doesn't want to D without having actually tried to work things out with me. He said the main roadblock is his resentment, and that he doesn't currently feel hopeful, but that he is trying (and he definitely has been trying over the past week). I validated. He said he is very worried that with this health stuff it's going to set him back on the work he's been doing on us because there are a lot of trajectories this health stuff can take. I said I understood. He is worried he's going to be miserable to be around, and doesn't want to put me through that, and make things worse between us. I said I feel I can handle it. I also said if he ever has any questions or things he needs to know to help re: resentment, LMK. He said he wants to ask his IC on some more ways to get over that. He did acknowledge that spending time together is part of that. We discussed how we do need strategies to handle difficult things going forward. He listened a lot, too. I felt truly heard, and didn't say anything super new. He did on his own say that he thinks he wants to try to stay at our house next weekend (he will be in town for work the next 2 weekends). He said sometimes he thinks he can handle stuff, and then sometimes not. I said I respect and appreciate knowing that. So, IDK. It was a very productive conversation, and one that didn't wreck us both emotionally. He was at the house for approx 5. hours, and seemed to have a good time (even during the convo).
Sort of update - same day that I wrote the previous post, I ended up feeling awful and going home from work early. I'd texted H saying sanitize everything, and he asked how I was and if I was home. He came by, ate and took a nap, then went to his house far away. We texted some during the week - he was on edge about test results and some stuff at work, but was telling me about it. Friday morning he texted asking if I'd leave the deadbolt unlocked so he could come by, but then he never did, and I was too scared to follow up text about it. Saturday day I emailed saying I hoped he was OK - inside I was mad and felt slighted and was hopeful about him staying at the house like he said. He replied to email saying he was super stressed out about finances, admitted that he shouldn't have signed a lease for an expensive place far away. I said I am here in whatever way you need. Later Saturday, I texted "dinner?" and he said yes and that he felt better. We met at the house, and went to dinner. He was strange during part of dinner - kept thinking I was going to get mad at him for every little thing. I wasn't remotely mad at this point. I did ask about Friday, and he said he was too depressed to come over and went to bed at 5. He had to go back to his town Saturday night for a work thing on Sunday. He had actually started to leave when I'd texted, but turned back around to come to dinner. Saturday night I texted saying I hope he's still considering staying at our house (he is in town again this weekend). He said he is still considering it, but he's nervous about how scared he got at dinner that I was going to get mad, and that he knew that was all on him. I called him later Sunday to discuss - he was fine after dinner and hung out at the house a bit before getting on the road. He said he doesn't know why he was like that, but that he is trying. I said I need to spend more time and make sure I still want to wait for him, too. I said sometimes it feels like he is just too scared to call it off, and he said he was sorry that I felt that way, and that it isn't the case, and that he is trying, but having a hard time with health and depression stuff. It's nice to hear that, but I'd rather just feel that way.
For as frustrated and impatient as I am, he has definitely tried more over the past few weeks. I went to dinner w/ a friend last night who I hadn't seen in a month and was updating her and was like....OK I need to calm down and try to be patient again.
He is freaking out about money. Part of my wants to throw a Hail Mary and say - I will pay to break your lease if you come home and work on stuff with us, but there's no way to do that without it sounding super manipulative. I've helped him some financially since we are still married, but it's a strange spot.
I reread an article about C-PTSD and triggers/how to handle them, and referenced it to H in an email asking if any of those techniques would help in the future. I don't know if he will answer.
At dinner, I was complaining about the dryer (our dryer is new but has a part that needs to be replaced again), and he said, "well, at least you have a dryer." I said, "You have a dryer - it's in our house." I know he found this funny, but it's true.
I am trying to just remain standing for our marriage while he is still a complete mess, mentally. I am fed up and impatient, but need to recognize that there has been progress in the past month that is real (him being at the house, us going to dinner, seeing him 2 weekends in a row, talking on the phone way more frequently). It's not like anything would change if I did give up - I wouldn't file, I don't want to see anyone else. Trying to not get my hopes up for this weekend, but we will see.
Update - H did text that Thursday saying that he would like to try staying at our house for the weekend if that was OK with me. I said sounds good. He came home super late after running group, and was in an emotional place. Wanted to be held, etc. We were intimate for a long time. The following day was Valentine's day, and I got off work early. We sat around on the couch and watched movies and ate pizza. It was weird b/c I wanted to cuddle but didn't know what was OK. I kept asking if it was OK if I touch him, and he would say yes every time, so I finally just became more comfortable. The following day, H wanted to go to a new type of meetup early in the morning, and asked if I wanted to go (which I was surprised with). We did. He hangrily snapped at me in the car that morning re: directions, but I did not engage. We went to the event for a while, then to lunch. We went home and he took a super long nap, and was having a lot of back pain. We eventually went to dinner, and then to drinks, where I had a semi drunk cry festival. One of our issues was that my self esteem got so bad that I would resist being intimate, but now that that's better, I want to be touched, and felt the physical touching was one way (he initiated being intimate, though). He listened, and said he just needs to get used to it again, but then proceeded to make sure to physically casually touch me a lot for the remainder of the weekend, which was nice. We didn't have many deep talks. Sunday afternoon I'd gotten upset because it's just confusing not knowing what to expect or prepare for or what's OK and what's not OK. He did say in the talks that he wants to make sure that he doesn't want to come back just b/c it's easier for him mentally b/c it'd remove a lot of stressors from his life, which I understood. He left Monday afternoon, and is coming back tomorrow I believe for a while. I didn't ask if he is staying at our house. He doesn't have a reason not to - he said he had a great weekend together. But, we will see.
He did mention that he wanted to withdraw a few times during the weekend and pushed himself (successfully) to not. He did go to his IC while here, too.
I wasn't sure how I wanted to play this interim time where he isn't here. part of me wanted to go dark starting Monday for the full effect of going back to his lonely sad place to really hit him, but he spent all Monday texting me about non-important stuff, and I did reply. He also called me when he knew I was getting off work for no specific reason (we used to talk on the phone every day when I was on my way home). Monday in the middle of the night he called me but I was asleep. Yesterday he said he was having a panic attack, but I am suspicious that there was more to it. Maybe he did, and then got in an emotional spiral? Idk. Not trying to think too much about it.
Overall, I had a nice time over the weekend, and saw a lot of actual behaviors that show he is trying. We didn't really talk about R stuff, tbh. More just being present. I thought it'd feel more like having a stranger in the house, but it didn't. I did point blank ask that if something comes up that we need to fix or is going poorly would he tell me/bring it up? and he said yes. I felt I was overly attentive over the weekend, and voiced as much b/c I felt I was being annoying, but he did not. He has a pain issue right now, and I just wanted him to be super comfortable here, but I wish I had been slightly more aloof.
Update for consistency:
H stayed at our house again this weekend. He got in town Friday evening, and I was out at an event with my friends that I had before him that he inherited (his friends, too, but point being I've been with these friends for a long time). H wasn't sure if he would want to meet up. One of these friends is who he has gotten drinks w/ a few times, but he hasn't seen anyone else since BD in late October. He came out, and I think this was helpful b/c he saw everyone was normal about things. We were out pretty late. The following day we hung out and ran errands and just enjoyed being around each other. Sunday we had a lunch date then met up with same group of friends for walking around and enjoying our city. Monday I worked, and met him after work with friends that were his before us - I haven't seen them since BD (even though one lives literally a street away). It was fun/normal until the end. H was pretty drunk when I showed up and being very cute, but towards the end of the night got emotional. He did at some point tell me he does forgive me for everything. He was upset bc I didn't want to stay out - I was tired and we had an early group all day outing today. I handled it well but did ask to table any serious talks for when neither of us had been drinking. Today at said outing, something similar happened, but we also recovered. He leaves tomorrow morning, and then will be back in town Friday.
I did finally bring up this couples weekend program that I have looked at. I've brought it up before early in the game, but was waiting until things were progressing to mention it again. He agreed to do it and is looking into signing us up when he is back at work tomorrow, so that was good.
it was nice having him socially integrate. We didn't only see "my" friends, but some of his, and then also some of our joint friends today as well. I want to bring up going back to MC again soon, b/c I do think we have some communication issues to still work out. He hasn't mentioned moving home or anything, and I am not pushing that. He was so excited to introduce me to new people yesterday, and we took a bunch of pictures together today. He held my hand a lot over the weekend. We have been intimate once this weekend (tried a few other times, but ...life).
Hi SamCal,
Sounding cautiously positive! The fact that he's the one looking into signing you up for the weekend program is a good thing-- I might recommend not pushing and not mentioning it, letting him get you both signed up all by himself.
What is his deal exactly with his other place and work situation? When does his lease there end (do you know)?
When you say you were intimate once but tried a few other times-- was that you initiating and him saying no? (or just too much booze?)
It sounds like he's definitely making an effort, and probably nice for you guys to spend time with friends together and have it be relaxing and fun, and he can see that it won't be all strange because of the situation. I think it is also a good sign that he was excited to introduce you to new friends of his etc. I agree not to push on the move or anything-- in fact one nice thing about him being gone during the week is it really gives you a little space to reflect on what is and isn't working. Last week it sounded like you asked a lot of permission before physical contact-- is that still happening?
Fingers and toes crossed for you, SamCal... sounds like things are definitely improving! Keep up the DBing and I would also caution keep your expectations in check-- seems like the road is never straight and you don't want to let a curve throw you off your game.
Hi SamCal,
Sounding cautiously positive! The fact that he's the one looking into signing you up for the weekend program is a good thing-- I might recommend not pushing and not mentioning it, letting him get you both signed up all by himself.
Thank you and agreed. Since it's through his work, he is the one that has to do all of it, fortunately!
What is his deal exactly with his other place and work situation? When does his lease there end (do you know)?
He had signed a year lease at the beginning of October, but knew he would be able to break it sans penalty when he is deployed in June. He has to be in our town for predeployment stuff in April for most of the month, and has expressed being annoyed that he can't break it without penalty then. We will see. He left this morning and left some stuff at our house on purpose, since he is coming back Friday evening, then flying out for a school for 2 weeks on Sunday. He left his empty laundry hamper, saying he won't need it at his place since he will only be there a few days...but idk he'd need it eventually?
When you say you were intimate once but tried a few other times-- was that you initiating and him saying no? (or just too much booze?)
Nah - mutually agreed upon being too tired, or staying out too late, etc. He hasn't ever said no if I initiate, and I haven't during this time as well. I've been more vocal about wanting to, and he always was vocal about it, so the want was there.
It sounds like he's definitely making an effort, and probably nice for you guys to spend time with friends together and have it be relaxing and fun, and he can see that it won't be all strange because of the situation. I think it is also a good sign that he was excited to introduce you to new friends of his etc. I agree not to push on the move or anything-- in fact one nice thing about him being gone during the week is it really gives you a little space to reflect on what is and isn't working. Last week it sounded like you asked a lot of permission before physical contact-- is that still happening?
I have stopped asking permission for physical contact - I am more comfortable with now knowing he is OK with it, and he was initiating it more over the weekend. We are both pretty anti-PDA, but I have definitely felt like I needed more reassurance with hugs, holding hands, etc. He never said he was uncomfortable with any of it, and definitely has put in effort to be more present with initiating it as well. I am glad to have a few days apart before he comes back, and then will have the 2 weeks while he is out of town, and am hopeful that since the dynamic has changed, he will miss me even more.
Fingers and toes crossed for you, SamCal... sounds like things are definitely improving! Keep up the DBing and I would also caution keep your expectations in check-- seems like the road is never straight and you don't want to let a curve throw you off your game.
Thank you, I appreciate it. We definitely had some points of friction over the weekend, but both were committed to working through them instead of giving up or ignoring them. He is definitely putting in actual effort. He seemed to want to plan a lot of things for the future over the weekend. He says a lot of things, but thankfully now is doing more action-related things instead of only words. I am still trying to temper my expectations and not rush into things.
It's been sorta odd since he has been staying at our house - we had just moved in at the end of August so he was only there 2 months before BD/MO. I've been in the house alone longer than with him. It is definitely "our" house, though - we had it built and I can tell he misses it, especially when compared to his place now.
In terms of my 180s, I think I did really well over the weekend. I didn't nag or mention any mess that he made, didn't engage when he was being a crab, opened up instead of holding things in.
Between weekends before, I was unsure if he was staying at our house, but now I do know he is staying at our house this weekend b/c he made that clear. I am still wary to trust things, but haven't had any failures where I am, either. He has been vocal to me and others about wanting things to work, and it's nice to see those actions as well. I am hurt still that he doesn't wear his wedding ring, but I haven't brought it up and won't.
So much has happened in the past week.
Last weekend H came and stayed at the house. We went on fancy date night that Friday, but he didn't feel well and the dogs had thrown up all over the bed and peed in the closet, so it didn't end on the best note. I cried because I was frustrated. H was very good about trying to comfort me, and I was good about not taking it out on him. (def 180 there)
Saturday he worked a lot, and I felt like he was pretty standoffish but I know he was stressed so I tried to not take it personally and leave him alone. We went to a couple's house that we are friends with, and H brought up a previously discussed joint couples trip to them but then on the way home in the car said we are both still figuring out what we wanted, which hurt me. We did then did go home and have amazing time in bed, where I definitely felt loved.
Sunday morning he initiated a serious R talk before leaving that afternoon for a 2 week work trip. Spent all morning hugging me, kissing me, saying he loved me, saying he had wanted to wait to bring it up until after his trip b/c he wanted to be around and see where I felt about it instead of then jetting off for work.
We have spent the past several days discussing things. I've asked a lot of tough questions - like why the sudden turnaround? He has been impressively communicative and emotionally mature and thorough when answering. He has put in amazing time and effort telling me about his feelings, being super open and emotionally mature. H said that he was sorry for not believing that I could turn things around, but that he saw I really had done the 180s I talked about and that he can tell they were for me and not to win him back. I feel like we are actually on the same page and he is now solutions oriented and in touch and he appreciates how positive I am being, too. I've felt a whirlwind of emotions and just let myself feel them to get through them. I have been open about being scared to trust it, and he has really connected with me again emotionally. Sunday he talked about how he doesn't believe in soulmates (neither do I), but that he never fell out of love with me, but was miserable and hurt with how I was treating him. I sent him a list of things I need to trust it and where I want us to grow (many of these we discussed in MC). I have taken time the past few days to digest and see how I feel about it and how he is acting, and he is showing me with his actions. Has proactively contacted looking for a new MC (neither of us liked the one we had), being in way more contact, etc. A 180 on his part in the past few months. He said he feels much less codependent on me, and feels good about it. We are both careful to not get swept up in the positive emotions, which is reassuring. He said he knows it'll be hard, and that coming back is the harder choice than to leave because of what we need to work through, but that he thinks we can come out the other side together a stronger couple. He clearly has put a lot of thought into this and fully opened up. He has contacted work to see when/how he can move back home and still do whatever duties he is responsible for in the other office. He overall is just more...emotionally grounded I guess is the word? He put his wedding ring back on. I am zero percent confused on how he feels. He's noticed the positive reinforcement I have given him when he opens up and voiced appreciating it. We are still reading some books together. I do feel I handled the tension over the past few weekends when it occurred much better than I had before. I've been fully open about my concerns, but also my commitments. So, we will see, but I do feel good.
Wow, SamCal! That is great! I feel like this reads like textbook DB-ing how it is supposed to work. Super happy and excited for you
Thanks may! I definitely feel I only did sorta OK on actual DB-ing, but I did take the time to work on my mental health and examine the sore spots in our marriage, validate, and give more positive feedback and become way more compassionate. H was a mess for a while, but has really turned a corner and gotten it together and is all in, words and action wise. It's been hard since we have been in different cities since the first day we discussed. He knows it'll take a bit for me to get over the hurt that he caused by leaving, but also now that he has opened up a lot more about it, I get it. He said it hurt him more to leave, but that he was miserable at how I was treating him, and he was bottling it up instead of really talking to me about it (he did half a$s try some and admitted he could have tried better). He said he can see that I do value him as a person, and apologized for not believing that I could work on myself and turn things around. He opened up about how no one in his life who has loved him but treated him poorly some times (parents, boss) has been able to actually change how they are treating him, and that was a lot of why he didn't think it was possible. I am not going to stop DBing in the sense of GALing (this hasn't been really a problem for us that much), working on myself, and not letting his entire mood dictate how I feel. Being kinder to myself means I can be kinder to others, generally. He has been so good about contacting me as much as possible during the day while he is on work trip -I am actually on a (shorter) work trip right now, too. I'm interested to see how this plays out in day to day stuff once we are back together. Not sure when he will be able to move home, depends on work, but he will be in our town the first 2 weeks of April for work. I am definitely still going to read the boards- my thread never got much traction but I am invested in everyone else's stories, even if I never comment.
Hey SamCal -
Wanted to stop in and offer a few words of encouragement. Looks like things are beginning to turn around for you- and that's great.
I feel the same - lots of the people I followed here a year ago have slowly faded into the background. I wish them well, still follow several threads and hope they are doing good. My sit has stabilized but there is little to no sign of moving forward past normal niceties and the like, so I don't post as much anymore. But I'm still here.
Stay strong - and take care
Thanks IW, appreciate it. I am looking forward to when he and I are both at home and can really work on this together, and I can see functionally how things are going, and how we handle the pain points. I have an appt with my IC today (we had gone down to once every 2 weeks, so I wasn't supposed to see him this week) to talk it over, too. H doing phone session w his IC this weekend, I think. It's still been a big adjustment to talk so openly about feelings daily, but we are managing.
Being kinder to myself means I can be kinder to others, generally..
This is lovely and I'm going to hold onto it to help continue to give myself permission for self-care
Keep up the good work and the stability.
SamCal, I've been following your sitch some but haven't posted, and I'm so glad to see it swinging this way.
He said he can see that I do value him as a person, and apologized for not believing that I could work on myself and turn things around. He opened up about how no one in his life who has loved him but treated him poorly some times (parents, boss) has been able to actually change how they are treating him, and that was a lot of why he didn't think it was possible.
This hit me—I'm really thinking, no matter what happens, I hope my H can see I value him as a person. I hope I have changed how I treat him like I think I have... I may need to travel back through your thread.
cardinal - that probably hurt the most when my H said he didn't feel valued (he's been open about feeling that way the entire time, and that was why he left) because I always valued him inside. When I reflected hard on how I was treating him, I realized there were many ways that I was slowly tearing him down that I genuinely did not realize, and that he became to scared to even bring up. I was depressed and not handling it well, and treating myself poorly, and therefore treating him poorly. Some of the things I identified on my own and brought up in MC, H was surprised at the self reflection I had. Me trying to be more compassionate has helped me understand how my words or actions may affect people in ways that I don't see or think about. The self-reflection part on how I was acting was really difficult, and I was vocal about how I understood I was treating him that way, but my treatment wasn't lining up with how I felt inside because I did love/respect/value him. I assumed he knew I felt positively about him, so wasn't taking the time to give positive feedback, only negative. (this is something I struggled with initially as a manager, but overcame as a manager years ago and was mad that I didn't apply this to my marriage!) H has noticed and mentioned this change, for sure. It's one I have felt confident with since I knew I had major success incorporating that into my management style years ago. I was also just not fun to be around for a while, and didn't even want to be myself. I was being a nitpicky, nagging mess, who just wanted to be heard and not take time to hear his side. H and I have always been physically incredibly connected, but I was so stressed out or upset that we stopped ML for weeks at a time, and that greatly affected us both. I basically feel like I have emotionally let myself out of the prison I was holding myself in, took accountability for my actions, and enjoy life again - and did that for me, not to manipulate him back, and he said he can truly tell that. I feel good about things b/c I can see he is more emotionally equipped to talk to me about stuff if he is unhappy with something, and has a better understanding of what treatment is and is not OK with him, and how to effectively vocalize that. We are both working towards making an emotionally safe environment for each other - that's how we connected and fell in love in the first place. (for the most part - I held back when dating b/c I honestly thought he would be bad in bed, and he proved me so, so incredibly wrong - lulz)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here, SamCal. I do identify with this.
Me trying to be more compassionate has helped me understand how my words or actions may affect people in ways that I don't see or think about. The self-reflection part on how I was acting was really difficult, and I was vocal about how I understood I was treating him that way, but my treatment wasn't lining up with how I felt inside because I did love/respect/value him.
In my case, I did desire my H and tell him that, but my actions didn't line up with how I felt inside, and that must have really hurt him. I feel like I've come more and more to a place where I can really empathize with what my H shared at BD, even if it was an exaggerated, spewing, negative version of everything. I just have to remember to empathize with myself too!
I feel good about things b/c I can see he is more emotionally equipped to talk to me about stuff if he is unhappy with something, and has a better understanding of what treatment is and is not OK with him, and how to effectively vocalize that.
This is encouraging and would be something my H really needs to do for his own growth. I know I would be better equipped to hear him and respond now. I'm so glad your H has done this work.
We are both working towards making an emotionally safe environment for each other - that's how we connected and fell in love in the first place.
This is lovely. I wish you all the best on this part of the journey!
small journaling:
I have struggled the past few days with feeling like I wasn't getting "enough" from H, but objectively, was getting a lot. This has been so hard to be physically apart for 2 weeks like this now that he's back in. We have spent much longer times apart both during separation and before hand (due to work), but I feel extra needy in the reassurance department and am trying to mitigate that. It's been easier now that i am home from my work travels, too, and can hang with my friends/do stuff around the house/with the dogs. I'd been trying to figure out how to express my needs without triggering some sort of defensive response, and coming up with nothing. Debating about if I was being fair to him since he is super busy in this course, etc. I felt he had been a little distant the past few days, but I don't think it was anything personal - the majority of his day is taken up with their final project.
That said....I am just dang impatient and glad I didn't say anything, because H was doing all kinds of stuff behind the scenes that I didn't know about. Following up with this couple's weekend thing, talking to his boss about working in our city this weekend instead of where his place is, laying the groundwork for the bigger convo of coming back to his office here in town. (I've mentioned before, one of H's bosses is one of my BFFs, and that's how I met H - boss BFF actually performed our wedding ceremony. He's been there more for me than my H during this, but I haven't said a ton to boss and left it to H to navigate re: his return. I know this boss friend and another bigger boss are in favor of reconciling, and will help this work logistics-wise). He took the time to explain some work related challenges and details of how he is going to tackle them, too. Here I was being impatient and faithless, and was wrong.
My ex-H was an abusive alcoholic, and I spent a lot of time reading al-anon stuff, and one of the biggest takeaways was allowing loved ones to have the dignity to fail on their own (e.g. quit fixing, controlling, and focus on you!). That's one I am trying to implement, and need to look at it from the other angle, too - give him the dignity to SUCCEED on his own. I can definitely overcorrect in the controlling dept due to my previous marriage, where if I didn't do something, it point blank did not get done. My patience has paid off many times in this process, and I am proud at growing in this area, because patience has been my struggle for life.
I look forward to him coming home late Friday night, and spending time together over the weekend.
Updating:
H came home late Friday night and I picked him up from the airport in his car (his request). He was very excited to see me, and immediately noticed that I'd paired my phone to the bluetooth in that car (H got this car during S) and exclaimed that made him happy and feel secure and relieved, which was cute. He had to work some Saturday and Sunday, but not much. We were social together Saturday afternoon, and I had fancy dinner stuff to cook for us on Saturday. Sunday we hung out in the afternoon and snuggled a lot on the couch. We did have some talks Sunday on how to handle some stuff going forward, but it wasn't too heavy a talk (still productive, though).
I felt very secure all weekend. He was open about how happy he was to be home, and unpacked the stuff that he could. He spoke to work about transitioning back to our town, and work was very supportive. He had to go back to his house super early Monday morning for a doctor's appt, and work. He thought he would be able to come right back, but due to work hasn't been able to. He's been super communicative and has packed a lot of his stuff up to bring here to our house. Due to the nature of what's going on in the country and the nature of his work, some of this is uncertain. He is aiming to come back tomorrow.
It's hard being apart right now. I am trying to focus on current status mentally instead of automatically feeling like the distance = rejection. We have to be apart sometimes for long stretches anyhow (military), I am still doing GAL as much as I can with restrictions in place (saw a friend while H was at work Saturday, went running/walking dogs etc). I was somewhat worried H would exhibit codependency things over the weekend, but he didn't. There weren't any points of disagreement and it was a good mixture of being social and having quality time alone at home. I never felt I had to suppress any feelings, and he didn't either. Obviously there will be points of friction in the future, and we are both cautious to not fall into old habits or patterns that were hurtful. I feel in a better place, mentally, but am still continuing IC.
Update:
Things are still going really well. Due to the virus, our couples weekend thing was canceled, but we are supposed to do one locally at the end of May (presuming things are back to 'normal' by then).
Fortunately, we are both still working during this madness, but neither in high risk situations. I live in a city that was hit very hard, and feel grateful that it isn't impacting me financially. Also, I am glad to not be S anymore during this stuff, Jesus. I do not know if this means H's deployment will be impacted - guess we will see. As of now, I don't think it is? It's for the end of June.
H has moved most of his stuff back to our house. He has spoken to his landlord and working out breaking the lease. He has had to travel where his house is twice, but only for a day or two at a time. He's been excited to be back, and fixed a lot of small things that needed fixing without me nagging. Also, a big 180 for me here: I told him I would listen and help if asked about the situation with him breaking his lease, but that I am going to step back from it emotionally because I am frustrated by it. I think this made us both feel better - he has been handling it on his own, and isn't worried about me constantly bringing it up or saying things that aren't constructive about it. This felt really good to do and be up front with it. It's his mess, and he is cleaning it up.
We do have disagreements sometimes, but handle them much better than we had in the past. He seems much more grounded and open, still. He has not seen his IC, and due to everything being shut down we have not found a new MC, but I am still seeing IC. IC had asked a while ago if H would be open to talking to him, so H did talk to my IC separately during the week. H told me about it, the IC asked him a few questions like how am I doing, what does he think I should work on, if he could do S differently would he have. IC and I didn't discuss their convo yet but will this upcoming week. IC said he has a lot of notes, and that H was incredibly complimentary of me the entire time. We did all of the exercises in a marriage book, and the answers together were refreshing and fun to go over.
I worry about sometimes being in 'honeymoon' phase, or if this whole social shut down is making things too idyllic, but our normal is only semi disrupted since he is still having to travel some, I am still working, and so is he. We did have a pretty tense disagreement where I think I handled it better but I felt very disrespected by how he was acting. He has apologized and identified his behavior missteps on his own. I know things aren't going to be perfect, so it was good to see how this ended up fully playing out. I still have bouts of being hurt, and am challenging myself to live in the present.
Hi Sam...I just read through your situation, and I wanted to thank you for sharing everything you did, and for continuing to share updates. I remember you posting on my thread that you thought our situations had some similarities, and I can definitely see them now. I think my husband is in a "pull away" period after having moved back towards our relationship fairly quickly following our separation, and, as I'm sure you know, that's particularly hard. It's tough not to think they'll just get stuck in that mode or make a decision while in that mode, yet I'm always inclined to doubt the positive moments, too. It also really pinged with me when you were describing marital counseling and, even with the therapist you guys worked well with, that he was kind of pushing your husband to make a decision about reconciliation, and how that might have been too fast. Anyway, I think you handled your situation so well, and it's really a model for others. I'm hoping for the best for you as things continue forward.
Thanks, Beth - I really appreciate it.
The pull away periods are definitely the hardest, and most frustrating. It helps to remember that they are super confused and incapable of making a decision either way, really - otherwise you wouldn't be where you are at. You've done a good job on giving him space. What they do say is true - you'll know when he wants to come back. My H made it clear and still has been actively making that clear on a daily basis. It's helped me feel very secure. He's definitely listened and done 180s of his own consistently.
That MC definitely did make things harder, partially due to his tone of like "get over it" almost? Also, I'd made it clear that I wasn't 100% sure what I wanted to do either; did I want to stand for someone who would just cut and run basically? I don't regret going to MC, but don't think it really helped a ton. It gave me a space to voice some self introspection I'd done, but my H was also willing to listen to what I had to say generally even outside of MC.
cardinal - that probably hurt the most when my H said he didn't feel valued (he's been open about feeling that way the entire time, and that was why he left) because I always valued him inside. When I reflected hard on how I was treating him, I realized there were many ways that I was slowly tearing him down that I genuinely did not realize, and that he became to scared to even bring up. I was depressed and not handling it well, and treating myself poorly, and therefore treating him poorly. Some of the things I identified on my own and brought up in MC, H was surprised at the self reflection I had. Me trying to be more compassionate has helped me understand how my words or actions may affect people in ways that I don't see or think about. The self-reflection part on how I was acting was really difficult, and I was vocal about how I understood I was treating him that way, but my treatment wasn't lining up with how I felt inside because I did love/respect/value him. I assumed he knew I felt positively about him, so wasn't taking the time to give positive feedback, only negative. (this is something I struggled with initially as a manager, but overcame as a manager years ago and was mad that I didn't apply this to my marriage!) H has noticed and mentioned this change, for sure. It's one I have felt confident with since I knew I had major success incorporating that into my management style years ago. I was also just not fun to be around for a while, and didn't even want to be myself. I was being a nitpicky, nagging mess, who just wanted to be heard and not take time to hear his side. H and I have always been physically incredibly connected, but I was so stressed out or upset that we stopped ML for weeks at a time, and that greatly affected us both. I basically feel like I have emotionally let myself out of the prison I was holding myself in, took accountability for my actions, and enjoy life again - and did that for me, not to manipulate him back, and he said he can truly tell that. I feel good about things b/c I can see he is more emotionally equipped to talk to me about stuff if he is unhappy with something, and has a better understanding of what treatment is and is not OK with him, and how to effectively vocalize that. We are both working towards making an emotionally safe environment for each other - that's how we connected and fell in love in the first place. (for the most part - I held back when dating b/c I honestly thought he would be bad in bed, and he proved me so, so incredibly wrong - lulz)
This - I feel this is my H too. He was trying to reach out to me... I was lost in my own head and dealing with my own self esteem issues. He even voiced his needs were not being met but did so as he was walking in from work and I was heading out the door. He could have had better timing... a time when we both could have been awake and focused on each other. In his pain he relied on a female friend and that lead to a PA that he is still in.
I appreciate your thread. I've read it all. You handled everything well - not perfectly but then who does right? Your H managed to work through his issues and I'm glad you have reconciled.
Please don't stop DB... I was here 2yr ago when my H was just unhappy and no A... I turned him around with the new wonderful me - which was just the old me coming back. Weight gain just sunk my ship and I got stuck in my own head. Felt my H deserved someone who was smoking hot so I turned away from his physical affection not ever realizing that it was leaving him feeling rejected... once I found that out it broke my world but I found it out too late.
So don't stop... keep reading... come back to visit to stay on the path to keep your M healthy. I wish the you the best!!! And a wonderful future.
I wanted to update, and also discuss a huge piece of this that I left out. I was embarrassed, and didn't know how to handle some of this outside of H and I. I am adding this in so hopefully someone will find my situation helpful to them and that means including a part I initially did not disclose for a few reasons. I vowed to keep this to myself and IC/MCs, but want to share here for advice and in the hopes it will help someone down the road. I know that if I can tell this story anywhere, it's here.
Before H left for his work trip at the beginning of March, I accidentally found out that he did in fact cheat on me only while we were separated. I found this in a journal completely by accident - H has never kept a journal in his life, it was in his trunk, and the first page was open to "had great sex." So, yes, then I read it. It covered most of when he was gone There were other topics in there too about how he was pretty sure he couldn't overcome what happened between us, and how I made him angry. It was devastating. However, the benefit was that I have the actual timeline of when things occurred. There was no overlap between when he lived at home and when he was hanging out more. He went on a date with a friend in early January, had a drunk one nighter with a separate old GF around that time, and went on a few dates/had sex with someone where he was living during late November/mid December. I confronted him, and he said he had planned to tell me when he returned from his trip (I did later see evidence supporting this - he had spoken to his IC about it), so I could make an informed decision, and he knew that him telling me meant he may lose me, but that he couldn't move back without me knowing. I know the details that I wanted/needed to know. He's not balked at any of it.
Overall, this has really, really hurt. However, it didn't affect his decision to come back, and he has been amazing about this part (and others) ever since. No secrecy, answers whatever I want, shows me whatever I want. Obviously this has led to many painful conversations. During this time, though, he has shown some real emotional maturity, especially about his mindset during that time. He never has blamed me, never has made excuses, and not really sugar coated things with me which I appreciate. He has examined why he did this both in IC and in MC together, which we started 2 weeks ago. He is still deploying at the end of June, and he is dedicated to making our relationship as solid as possible before leaving. We have read MANY books together, had many talks, etc. - because we are also still working through why he left in the first place, and what our respective contributions were. I believe he is truly sorry and is trying to not hate himself over it. It's been tough b/c the biggest betrayal to me was that I specifically asked that we be faithful to each other when separated because I wasn't sure if I'd be able to come back from something like this. That part hurts the most. He has been there for me and been helping me through this hurt. I feel traumatized in many ways - how I found out, being betrayed, etc. I am glad to know that the timeline does truly match up, and have spent time understanding where he was mentally at that time. He knows he was a lost mess, but doesn't excuse his behavior. With every book that we have read on the topic, sometimes I feel guilty about how awful I feel when I read about situations that are objectively so much more awful - but I also allow myself to feel my feelings.
The benefit of virus stuff has helped us be able to spend a whole lot of quality time together, both having fun, having difficult talks, working through everything. We read the MWD infidelity book, as well as several others. He has been taking initiative with all of it. I don't think it's even through guilt - he genuinely wants us to be stronger, and I do actually believe him when he says he won't do this again. He says he really thought he couldn't get over how he felt about me, had felt neglected for a while, and ultimately being with others made him feel worse. He recreated the birthday that he missed by surprising me with a homemade cake and presents. He has hung out with our friends, and even called my dad last week. He has been the model, and it feels so genuine - which is weird for me to say since I am so naturally cynical. I do feel that if anything, that time apart hurts but also taught us a whole lot, and that lesson isn't a whole story to others without me disclosing this piece.
We are both still in IC, and both really love our new MC. She has been amazingly helpful, we both feel heard and supported. It's been almost 3 whole months since I found out and he came back. It's been rough, but I feel we are both better people for it, and have a stronger marriage. He has put in a lot of time and effort onto creating a safe supportive space inside and outside of our marriage. No one outside of our marriage knows, and I'd like to keep it that way. He has put a lot of effort into making our house a home, and I can tell it's because he is enjoying it and wants to. He tells me almost every day that I am his person. He has addressed so many individual issues he had going on, and frankly just done a lot of maturing in a way that is authentic. We are doing well, and are setting many better habits and deeper understandings in motion. I am definitely hurt and scared a lot, but also enjoying the super fun times that we are having together, too. If I had a dollar for every tough convo we have had during this time....oy.
I'm curious-- why did you leave such a big thing out when posting here? I'm glad you finally feel open to sharing about it and I hope it helps to know that there are so many of us on here that are dealing with As too. Were you worried about what people would say?
It makes sense, fits with his behavior in the fall, also why it might have been harder for him to come back (scared of what he'd done, how you'd take it). Glad that you guys are working through it though-- that's great.
I'm curious-- why did you leave such a big thing out when posting here? I'm glad you finally feel open to sharing about it and I hope it helps to know that there are so many of us on here that are dealing with As too. Were you worried about what people would say?
It makes sense, fits with his behavior in the fall, also why it might have been harder for him to come back (scared of what he'd done, how you'd take it). Glad that you guys are working through it though-- that's great.
I thought a lot about why I left it out before the new update (and was ruminating on it for weeks, but am still working during this time and also working a side job, in addition to IC/MC, and writing my journal). I think there are 2 things at play:
1. I was so, so, so tired of defending my H to my friends and even my IC, and ultimately saw this as a place where I'd have to defend him again. I'd say this is 80%. Tired of defending my decision to stay when he had left, tired of defending waiting for him. See more below. My friends do not know about the dating while separated, but I was still having to back him up/defend his choice about coming back, that it felt like a huge emotional wall to climb, especially to strangers on the internet, even though I do not think I'd need to defend his actions here. I do sometimes see people be challenged and know it's for their own good, and wasn't sure if I could handle it. However, if anyone understands, it's the people on these boards, and everyone is supportive of each other.
2. I had agreed with him that I would not disclose this to anyone except our ICs and MCs. This was my choice, not something that he asked me to do. If I am preaching honesty, I felt not great about not honoring that. Since then, we have had a lot of talks about productive outlets/friends of the marriage and where to get support, so feel OK here.
I felt like I was constantly having to explain/describe H's behavior about leaving IRL and then also having to explain him coming back, and honestly was just incredibly overwhelmed by this. I don't think I was worried about what people here would say. I was/am embarrassed about how I found out, also. I wasn't in denial about what happened - and felt immersed in it a lot, but also compounded by dealing with him leaving, what he did when he left, and what lead up to him leaving. I was spending so much emotional energy talking to him about it ad nauseum that it was just easier to leave out here? That is maybe 5% of why I didn't?
(Also to clarify - I dont think poorly of anyone who chooses to work through an A either IRL or on here - I dont want to accidentally imply that by saying that I was embarrassed. It takes a lot of strength and courage to do that.)
I don't think you have anything to feel bad about. We all have our issues to work through. Where you may not have felt open enough to put that out there until now....
I feel comfortable enough to put every thought and feeling... upswing/downswing in my journey. I don't really filter. I get called out for it a lot.... ALOT.... and I know everyone just has my best interest at heart.
I'm grateful I have a place to pour it all out so that I'm not making bad OR as bad decisions in real life play.
HUGS.... I'm glad you are finding a way to work through it. I used to feel that a PA was a deal breaker for me but I'm learning a lot about myself and learning how my actions left my H feeling neglected for so long. I'm struggling and my progress isn't linear but is progress none the less.
I totally get it, and I don't want you to have the impression that you owe this board anything! You can share what you want and not share what you don't want and all that is fine. I also understand about not wanting to feel like you need to defend your decisions. There have been times I felt that way on the boards too.
I would say, though, that this community is just so different from friends IRL who may have no idea about how it really feels to be in a sitch like this. I know before I was all of a sudden an LBS, I was both positive I'd have kicked my H to the curb in a hot second for even a whiff of an A and would have totally counseled my friends the same and been aghast if they didn't. To me, one of the benefits of this community is that everyone knows what you're going through, has been there before, and even when the 2x4s come they come with good intentions and the feeling of having walked in your shoes before behind them. Also, for me it has been good to have a variety of opinions and not all cheerleaders commenting on my situation.
Anyway, I think it is great for you to have shared that because I do think it will help others. And, in your own situation, I know I tend to be one who falls on the positive interpretation side more often than not, but I would just say that going through such a huge thing as you've both gone through can absolutely be a catalyst for real, lasting change. It probably feels genuine because it is genuine. Not to say that things probably won't be rough for awhile but it sounds like you guys are on the right path.
If you have time, I just posted on my own thread-- my H told me last night he is (finally) open to having convos about the A and now I'm nervous. Any advice for how to talk through it?
KC & May - thank you. May, I actually had read your update right after finishing this, and felt better about typing this up, because I definitely do have some stuff to say (IDK if it is helpful enough to be called advice). I definitely agree w/ your assessment of how helpful it can be to have a variety of opinions, esp from people who have been through similar situations. I thought I would have updated this sooner due to needing more support, frankly, but I have been able to grow with H and through IC and MC and working on my own stuff still. "Forced" constant quality time has also greatly helped.
I remember a long time ago having a convo w H about how I don't think cheating is the most devastating betrayal - I think lying is. And that yeah, lying is involved, but it just depends on the situation/details. I don't think he actually remembers this convo, though. I do take some comfort in knowing that he is committed, and that he wasn't really actively committed to our marriage at the time that this was going on - and that he still missed me, loved me, etc. And honestly, I think he realized how much he missed me in part due to what he did while we were separated. And I've been married before, and been through something similar that he was going through, but I knew I was done by that time, and had kicked my XH out. I've worked with my IC to see the growth and strength that can come from us working through this, effectively.
The lying is what I have had the hardest times with. There's definitely been some trickle truth that was in the beginning, but is out now, and something he explored in IC as to why he felt that way. We are both still learning to get through this and also making lasting changes, and so far it is encouraging, even though I am still working through my hurt. It's been almost 3 months since I have known, and we have both come a long way. Honestly, had I not seen him break through this whole victim mentality on his own, IDK if I would have stayed?
KC I def agree that progress isn't always linear. H and I had a disagreement this morning, and have had them along the way, but we are realizing what's happening in the moment and able to correct and then productively talk about what happened and strategize on how to communicate better going forward.
It's been refreshing to see him really take time and think about his actions, his motivations, and tell me them in ways that aren't dismissive of my feelings, or obscuring how he felt at the time, or making excuses. My H is significantly younger than I am - and I have always believed that generally people can make great strides in growing up before they hit 30, and if they haven't by 30, they probably won't LOL. So I am glad to see he is in that late 20s stretch of making painful mistakes but growing from them instead of baking them into their personality.
Hey Sam, just commenting to say that I completely understand why you decided to hold that in. I've had lots of times during this entire rollercoaster that I haven't felt like expressing certain things to certain people at certain times, often because of the sheer, I don't know, volume of everything. Going through this experience is crushing, and you have every right to process things through with different groups of people at different paces. That said, I'm glad you put it out there when you were ready. I think it's helpful for you, and selfishly its helpful for those of us (myself included) who read other people's situations for thoughts, comfort, etc., especially when they seem -- for lack of a better phrase -- "further along" in things. I'm glad you and your H are still working through things, too.
Thanks, Beth. Part of the reason I did want to add in what happened was I know your situation is close-ish to mine, to be honest. I am sure you've thought about that as a possibility. I know I was suspicious sometimes stemming from insecurity during the time, but not suspicious due to his behavior. He was a huge mess! And yes, the volume of things. So many things to recap that it gets overwhelming. H and I only talk about the As to our ICs and MC, but the talks we have had together about it alone are exhausting, let alone recounting stuff to anyone else.
It's been A LOT to work through, and fortunately we had done a lot of work on the "what went wrong to cause H to leave" piece already. I feel we have worked through the As more now and are back on that previous issue, in a repairing way. I am not feeling constantly 'triggered' by stuff, and have felt more even keeled. I think just time and having asked what I needed to ask and had 10000 discussions about stuff. H is still set to deploy in a month, and I feel much more solid about things. He has had a lot of eye-opening moments on his own with regards to why he did stuff and how to proactively NOT do that again. He has set boundaries with people that he needed to, and thought deeper on some less obvious friendships that may need boundaries also. One of the girls he took on a date actually called him about a month ago, and we were both at home. He didn't walk out of the room to take the call, and I could hear her. She was "worried" about him being back home because he had seemed "so sure" that he was done with me and that I was abusive etc. He handled it awesome - he was nice to her, but defended his decision and reassured her of his safety, and then she kept repeating over and over that she is there for him if he needs someone, and he said that those kind of conversations are inappropriate and that he made a lot of mistakes while we were separated, but is fully committed to working on our marriage. He didn't say any of this in a show-boaty type way - I could tell he did not want to take this call in front of me, at all. He ended up having to say that over and over, and she was being super weird, so he had to finally hang up on her.
I've also had trouble discussing it because of how just distrusting I am of people in general, and I know how objectively what I am saying can look to outsiders, and it can be difficult to convey nuance, tone, and overall demeanor to strangers on the internet. I am not in denial or fooling myself. There were days where I was not sure if I wanted to stand for our marriage anymore due to feeling so hurt. I am glad those days are behind me. I am glad that H isn't spiraling into self-hatred over what he did - he has grown a lot.
I had my first appointment with a new IC this week, and I really liked her. H and I are going away tomorrow night for a little romantic stay close to here, and are really looking forward to it. He has been out the past 2 days with some of our guy friends doing a hobby construction project together, so I am glad to see him spending time with our friend group (that he inherited from me). They are all also married and it's good for him to have that comraderie.
small journaling -
things are still going well. Our getaway was nice. We have had some arguments over the past week, but nothing large. H wanted to have a little commitment ceremony together in our back yard just us. He wanted us to burn his journal together, and both write down things we wanted to leave behind. I was impressed that he initiated this and followed through. The things he wrote about leaving behind were deep and thoughtful, and meant a lot to hear.
He also has said a lot of things about his behavior during S that I've been so glad to hear - about how he was running away, not listening to anyone, demanding things, etc. It's been a refreshing self awareness to hear. Especially without it being in the context of a shame spiral - just actual reflection and learning.
I still get sad thinking about some stuff, but feel in a solid place overall and that he is all in, open, and expressing and utilizing his tool kit to talk to me about stuff when it is upsetting. I've definitely put in a lot of practice on active listening, being more vocal when I appreciate something or feel supported, coming to him for support when I am sad, being more level headed in heated discussions, making more of an effort to show him things are OK and that I love him. I feel a lot more stable/solid and like a team - not prioritizing my personal independence over all things, which definitely negatively affected our marriage in the past.
Hi - quick journaling, even though there isn't much to really update. I think reading all of the piecing threads that have been reposted has been helpful for me to fully understand where we are at and be completely and utterly thankful that H has consistently put in the time and effort during this time both into our marriage and also himself. Sometimes I get very stuck in my head about stuff in the past, and don't want to be overlooking what the current circumstance is. The current circumstance of M2.0 has been awesome, even when I am sad about past stuff.
He has been deployed now for 3 weeks, but we are able to talk a whole lot, which has been nice. We had a lot of quality time before he left, and continued to do MC together and then IC individually. Our MC is fantastic, and I really like my new IC. There were some bouts before H left of some anxious attachment type responses - if I am upset or hurt, he gets scared that he is going to lose me (on his own, that is - I don't remotely threaten to leave or anything like that). He is currently working through this with his IC, as I've made it clear that seeing a huge shift in him having stopped that behavior before was one of the reasons I really wanted to work things out. What's great is I now know he is capable of that, over a stressful topic for an extended period of time. We have talked a lot about this.
We have talked a lot about everything in general. It's nice having him back. He has done all that he can do to make me feel as reassured and secure as possible. I sometimes am frustrated with myself, but know that some of this stuff just takes time to get distance away from. I've not remotely been worried that something will happen with someone else while he is gone. While I don't condone what he did, I understand where he was at, and he wasn't living a double life while being committed to me or anything like that. We did go through expectations and boundaries w/ others, which was important to do for when he is gone but also just overall. I've done better about taking time to examine how I feel before having some emotional long talk with him and ensuring that I am not getting carried away with some emotional tangent. There are definitely times where I feel resentful - I either work through those times alone, or sometimes talk to him about it and he has been very supportive and understanding. Ultimately, I feel more secure and connected to him then I did before, even while he is super far away and will be far away for a long time. It hasn't been all sunshine and rainbows - there are very difficult pieces and times, too. I wasn't (and honestly haven't ever been) scared to walk away from this, and am choosing it because I do believe in both of our changes. Some of him being gone again can be triggering for me, since last time I was without him, it was because we were S.
Final update because I feel odd commenting on other's stuff when I haven't updated my thread in forever, and I don't have enough to merit a 2nd thread at this point in time:
Things are still going really well. I've continued my IC and it has helped, a lot. H is still deployed and will be back hopefully in April. I was hoping I'd get to visit him, but with the pandemic, that is clearly out of the picture. I think him being gone this long would be tough in any circumstance, but it what happened really compounds this. Sometimes, I am hurting so bad and just need a reassuring hug, and can't have one.
We surpassed the 1 yr mark of BD already. I was very up front with him about being worried about feeling triggered going into late October and through the holidays, since the bulk of our separation was during that time. I will say I was able to GAL and not stew on stuff. I've done a lot of EMDR which has been interesting and seems to have actually helped a lot. I am not riddled with distrust or sadness or despair or grief so much now, and when I have those feelings, they usually are gone within five minutes and not day ruining. I sometimes tell H and we talk about it, and sometimes not. August was definitely rough for me, adjusting to everything and just feeling like I needed a lot of reassurance. I've been able to see H's growth, too - both personally and through work. That's been helpful. We do have spats every now and then (not related to being S or anything about that time - more present things), but are ultimately able to work them out and be productive. I do not have regrets about choosing to reconcile - I was clear with him that I had doubts in my heart when he wanted to come back. He was just as clear about not having doubts, and how that was an internal condition he had for himself.
I think we have both chosen to take this time to work on ourselves and our relationship and make it the marriage we want. Some of that, for me, has been being less guarded and more vulnerable in ways I never was - I can be really independent to a fault, and that has definitely contributed to some friction in the past. I have a better lens to see things through now and being more compassionate overall has been a big step for me. He sees this and opens up/is more vulnerable, which has made us both feel more connected. I've dealt with learning a lot of better stress management - I've had a stressful work situation going on since July that seems to almost be resolved, but was definitely affecting me a lot outside of work.
He has put a lot of effort into making sure this time apart is feels different. Sometimes it was very tough for me because even just being apart could be triggering - like I functionally know he is gone because he has to be, but just being alone brought up a lot of stuff and I had to really challenge myself to live in the present. We had our 2 year wedding anniversary, and he planned a ton of cute surprises. For my birthday, he sent a ton of thoughtful gifts and we had some very good conversation. It felt good to have it feel so different between us even though he still physically wasn't here for the 2nd birthday in a row. I spent a lot of time grieving over last year's missed holidays and this year's missed ones, but have had a blast getting the house fully Christmas'd out and getting into it because it hasn't been painful, and has been genuinely really fun, and I look forward to spending the holidays together next year and doing it even bigger. In a way, so many things still getting canceled due to the pandemic, there isn't a ton that he is missing anyhow, so that is helpful.
My tough days and feelings have really lessened, and I am glad it's started to get easier overall. I look forward to him coming home and us getting to reconnect even further - not that we didn't before he left, but the stress pressure cooker of him leaving in July did cast a shadow on a lot of stuff. I feel stable and secure and that I trust him. I am not worried that this will happen again because I can see him implementing better tools when he is upset. He isn't running away from stuff professionally or personally. I am really proud of our individual progress.
So good to hear this update, SamCal. You sound terrific.