Previous threads:
Part 1:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2861875#Post2861875Part 2
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2863376#Post2863376Part 3:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2864752&page=1Part 4:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2867858#Post2867858Part 5:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2870744&page=1Recent Update - sent off finance court order form for W to fill in her bits. I've done mine.
Had some pleasant text chats with W last week. No R talks at all, just brief polite conversations.
Just finished self-publishing a work of mine, and have discovered an old work I wrote over a decade ago. It's not half bad! My next project is to revise and tweak it, then get that ready for self-publication. GAL sorted then. I should take random weekdays off more often. I get so much more done with a slightly longer weekend.
Haven't yet heard from W about the finance order. I imagine she is panicking about how to get some of the info,. particularly pensions. Here, I'd have normally volunteered to help out - not now!
My mum hasn't sent her Xmas cards out yet. I'll have a chat with her and let her know what we've discussed in my last thread about acting normal, sending a card to her parents, and being positive but slightly vague about me if W's mum calls my mum at all.
Feeling ok at the moment. Lots of evening activities for the rest of this week: work night out Wed, IC on Thurs, going to a quiz night with my parents on Friday, gig Saturday, gym class Sunday and possibly go to London to watch a show.
Advice please!
W has responded this afternoon (2 days after I emailed her) saying:
"Hi,
I'm happy for you to pay me for the other sofa. I'm also fine about the clock and potentially the light fitting, the only thing that worries me about the light is if it effects [sic] the house sale?
I'm trying to fill in the form but i'm a bit stuck on the financial bit. <question about self-employment earnings> I haven’t actually sorted out my earnings since April, for obvious reasons [slight dig there at me!].
Would you be happy for me to take an average earning from last tax year, it will be more than this year anyway as i've had to shut <business name> down for a bit because i've not really been coping with all the pressure.
W."
Initial query (UK people especially) - does replacing a 'nice' light fitting with a standard hanging bulb without cause the house's value to drop?
First draft response:
"Hi W
I would have thought that changing a light fitting shouldn't affect the sale dramatically.
I am sorry to hear that you have had to close <business> temporarily, and that you're finding it difficult to cope with everything.
<Brief explanation of how to record self-employment earnings - 1 or 2 sentences at most>
Regards
D"
Have I validated enough, or should I elaborate a bit more?
Personally, I would simply say.
"Thanks. I will make sure to take care of the lighting."
No need to acknowledge anything else. Drop greetings and closing. All business all the time.
Remember communication rules. Phonecalls go to VM. Texts that are of informational purpose do not need a response. If she asks a question, answer her in as few words as possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers.
One of the biggest problems that LBSs make is over-communicating. "But she complained that I didn't communicate enough before." Yeah, and then she fired you as her husband. I wouldn't communicate with a previous company that let me go.
OK, so a more distant approach is better then? Don't need to validate how she's struggling?
I will need to explain what to do with the finance form.
No phonecalls at all; haven't had a phonecall from her for over 4 months now.
Hey Dan, yes distance is much better.
No need to validate the destruction that is her own creation.
Its not your job to explain the finance form. It's a legal document (I assume), and the person who fills in their details needs to work it out themselves. Isnt there an explanatory note for each section that she can refer to? It's not what you're happy with her putting in, but rather what the legislation or rules require her to put in, herself.
If you're taking a light fitting and leaving just a bare globe, just go out and buy a new fitting in keeping with the style of your place.
Cheers, DS
Thanks DS.
There are no notes - I just emailed the firm when I was filing my bits in and asked what I had to do; they replied a day later - sorted. I did put an explanatory note next to the figure I calculated (for their benefit not mine), so I assumed that W could have worked out from that how to do it. This is why I always did her taxes!
OK - I do feel sad that she is feeling pressured etc., although as you say, yes, it was 100% her decision to end M, and start the D process. I think I have adopted the 'I won't stand in your way even though I don't want this' stance well enough.
I know this means I haven't detached 100% - I don't that is actually possible after just 6 months. I'm mindful of the fact that I was the one in the wrong. I hurt her. But then as many have said, her reaction was extremely strong, bordering on the hysterical. Plus she is, and was, not perfect. She then broadcast it to all and sundry, which really has not helped either of us. It's sad because in 6 months my IC has turned me around and I done a lot of personal evaluation and growth being alone and I feel so much better. Meanwhile she's put her businesses on hold and struggling with pressure and hasn't picked herself up yet.
Re-draft response:
"Hi W
I would have thought that changing a light fitting shouldn't affect the sale dramatically.
You can take the total income from last year & do a monthly average ignoring expenses - just point out that it's lower this year. That's what they told me to do.
Regards
D"
Hey Dan yeah I agree 6 months isn’t long enough to have detached but boy you’ve come a long way!
Your call but I wouldn’t be helping with her income info or volunteering about the marketability of removing a light. Your XW can work it out and will have to as it’s a big bad world out there.
Look my XW text me yesterday saying her car wouldn’t start. Guess what I didn’t reply. It’s not my concern anymore! She text again saying she got it started. Guess what I didn’t reply either. Before bd I would get up to 4 or 5 texts a day asking me to do things and I did them because that’s what I thought a good husband did and it was in my nature. I wanted to support her and make her life easier. But now I’m not the old DS because she chose to leave all that and that’s your position too dan
OK DS.
Thanks for saying I've come a long way - really didn't think I'd be in this position this year to be honest, but there we are. I am moving forward, getting on with things, and making sure I'm not wallowing. It sounds like W is wallowing, although having said that she is the BS. But I get the sense she is certainly not GALing to the extent that I am.
If I were her I would have absolutely thrown myself into business to keep my head up (which is what I've done).
I still feel emotionally attached to W in that I think about her still, and miss interacting with her. I am sad she felt the only way out of this was D. I do try to remind myself that she is missing out on me - to have improved myself this much in 6 months is surprising for me, so I just carry on in the knowledge that she's missing out on experiencing this new me.
Hey Dan,
No worries mate, credit and encouragement where it's due!
I know it's hard to switch off thinking about what the X is doing, but you really have to try. I used to use a visual of a huge hand aggresively pushing aside those thoughts, but I found an allusion to a stop sign on this forum, so now I use that. Maybe come up with the way you can do it, suitable to your mind, when you disucss things in IC.
How's the gym life going? I'm jealous of your body fat %age mate! I'm struggling to bring mine down to 16%.
Cheers, DS
I still feel emotionally attached to W in that I think about her still, and miss interacting with her. I am sad she felt the only way out of this was D. I do try to remind myself that she is missing out on me - to have improved myself this much in 6 months is surprising for me, so I just carry on in the knowledge that she's missing out on experiencing this new me.
I understand this. I'm 3 months post BD and just over 2 months since she moved out of the house. 12 years of history went *POOF* in about a month span especially now that we no longer even communicate with one another except business-related items about our S4.
Someone on these forums has this Will Smith quote in their signature and I try to remind myself of it each and every day:
"“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people – the ones who really belong in your life – will come to you. And stay.”
If our WWs truly wanted to be in our lives.. They would be in our lives. As much as it hurts me to think about someone that I was so close to for 12 years suddenly disappearing from my life, that was 100% her decision. Yes I wish I could call her and talk about her day or tell her about mine or text her cat pictures and videos all day like we used to up until 3 months ago -- but the fact of the matter is she walked out of my life and has so far not looked back.
My life's mantra has literally become "Oh well." -- I never thought my marriage could be blown up so quickly completely out of the blue, but the fact of the matter is it was not me that did it. It was her choice to get into an EA/PA with another man and rush this divorce like she has.
So like I said.. If they want to be in our lives again they will say the words "I want to make this marriage work" .. Until then, we just have to consider them gone and move on with our lives to the best of our ability. One day we will both find someone that wants to be in our lives again, and we will look back on these days and appreciate them for how much they made us grow in such a short amount of time.
Thanks NewLife.
I have seen that Will Smith quote before. It is an important one to remember.
Yes it is all so sudden. She literally decided within 24 hours to D. Impulsive to the end - it was her decision (along with her enablers) to rush the D and not bother trying to discuss things.
All this time on my own has allowed me to really address things that I had left stagnant for years. This can only be a good thing. I'm appreciative of having this time to myself in my mid 30s to deal with all these issues. It has been fantastic to grow as a person, but also horrible in that she is no longer there with me. I know it is her loss; another quote I recall is, "She only has to turn back once to see a strong man to plant a seed of doubt in her mind" or something to that effect.
IC wrapped up yesterday. Had a great final session where we just summarised everything.
My IC said I've come a very long way, and should be proud of everything I've achieved despite the awful circumstances.
Six months' hard work has paid off, but I know it doesn't stop there - I know to keep GALing and continue with my new positive outlook and develop my newfound confidence.
She said I can come back in the new year for a catch-up session in March/April if I feel it is required.
IC wrapped up yesterday. Had a great final session where we just summarised everything.
My IC said I've come a very long way, and should be proud of everything I've achieved despite the awful circumstances.
Six months' hard work has paid off, but I know it doesn't stop there - I know to keep GALing and continue with my new positive outlook and develop my newfound confidence.
She said I can come back in the new year for a catch-up session in March/April if I feel it is required.
Dang.. I can only make it about two weeks in between IC visits right now. I was at every week for 1.5 months after BD but have gone to every two weeks now. I keep trying to push it to three weeks but havent been able to make it yet. Hopefully 6 months in I'll be able to have a little more space because it's $180 per session lol.
I've grown so much in these 3 months as well. The holiday season is going to be extra tough though as my time with S4 is gonna be spotty but just have to keep on keepin' on. We'll get there!
Hey DaB, I've been away for a couple of weeks, wanted to catch up on your sitch. Glad to hear it's going pretty well. I feel a bit of kinship as our timing was similar (class of Summer 2019!) and some of our approaches are similar. Just wanted to say that I'm glad you are doing well and that you are having pleasant, if short, conversations with STBXW - hope R comes of it but, even if not, you are much stronger!
Had a positive GAL experience on Saturday. At the gig I didn't know anyone (new area, new group). However I recognised one person who is actually the husband of an old school friend of W's. I also knew him vaguely from a few years ago. He said "Sorry to hear about you and W". I didn't really go into any detail, then he said "These things can happen." Then we didn't talk about my R at all. We just talked. I think I came across as positive and confident and was telling him about my self-publishing work etc and he was really interested in that. We had a long conversation about tax too lol!
During the gap before the concert, I'd have simply sat alone with a book for a couple of hours. Instead, I forced myself to go to the pub with a few others. I sat down and just chatted. I would never usually do this - this was a big thing for me. It was fine though; I used to be so scared of it. But I just sat down and got talking to a few other people there, about where they're from, who we do for a living, the music we were playing etc. And it was all fine
This was a big achievement for me - these are the kind of things my IC has suggested I do. "Get comfortable with the uncomfortable."
Today I'm doing overtime at work then cycling class at the gym. Nice to have reasons to get out my parents' house rather than be stuck inside all day.
Saw this quote somewhere this weekend and thought this applies to DBing:
"Sometimes all you need is twenty seconds of insane courage. Just literally twenty seconds of embarrassing bravery, and I promise you something great will come of it."
I'm going to write that down and keep it in my pocket. If I feel nervous, just be brave for 20 seconds, then I'll be fine. It's more effort to spend 20 minutes worrying than to be brave for 20 seconds and be content and pleased with yourself after that.
NC from W for a while now. Just messaged her to confirm the bills for the month. Kept it business-like. I still miss her, but have been upping my GAL and DBing so my mind has been occupied.
Hey Dan
Really glad to hear about all your cool GAL goings on, and that you've wrapped up IC. Keep the high road, keep DBing, and keep smashing those castanets!
Cheers, DS
Thanks DS. Yes had a good productive weekend.
I feel like I'm really liking the new me. I take better care of myself - and I can do that by just getting out of bed 10 minutes earlier. I feel so much better for the rest of the day then.
I'm not going out of my way to tell W or any of her family/friends about my changes. I figure that we have mutual friends who are impartial and remaining talking to both of us, and she will get to hear about me regardless. I have hope, but am preparing for other outcomes too.
Had a positive GAL experience on Saturday. At the gig I didn't know anyone (new area, new group). However I recognised one person who is actually the husband of an old school friend of W's. I also knew him vaguely from a few years ago. He said "Sorry to hear about you and W". I didn't really go into any detail, then he said "These things can happen." Then we didn't talk about my R at all. We just talked. I think I came across as positive and confident and was telling him about my self-publishing work etc and he was really interested in that. We had a long conversation about tax too lol!
Dan, this is really great! I know you've struggled in the past with asserting yourself like this, so well done! This is exactly how you bounce back and find yourself again, and the kind of stuff that can make you attractive to your W again as well (and to others). Keep it up!
I agree with the advice you got on your responses to W, and the abbreviated version you posted for comment. Not cold or distant, but not warm and fuzzy either. Try to always strike a balance like that. Like Steve said, treat interactions like business transactions.
EDIT- my thoughts on the light fixture, sometimes something small like that has a big impact on potential buyers, so your W may have a point. I have a cool light fixture in my entryway that looks like a vine wrapping around a blown glass bowl. It strikes quite a first impression versus the cheap brass junk fixture that was there when I bought the house. If I took that down and put a cheap one back like was there before, I could definitely see it turning some buyers off. So unless you have some personal attachment to it I would tell your W she has a good point and that you'll leave it there. If you do have some attachment to it then try to find an equally appealing replacement and tell your W that you're doing that. Even in S and D sometimes it helps to let her know that you still value her opinion, especially if you dismissed her opinions a lot in the M.
Thanks AS.
Yes I am sticking to being polite yet business-like for any texts/emails to W. Certainly cannot be classed as distant or cold or nasty/passive-aggressive.
Yes I hear you about the light. It is not expensive so I could buy another similar one in the future.
I will continue to be assertive and confident. It is working - I think people are noticing. W will get to hear about it I'm sure in time. I'll just carry on. with my picnic. Feels like I've had some extra food delivered to me recently!
I do appreciate everyone who has contributed advice and thoughts (and the occasional 2x4!) to my threads over these past months. It has been invaluable, and really helped me make the mess in my head much clearer.
Just had a text from W:
"Just paid you my share of the monthly bills. Just trying to fill in the form still. Do we need to declare that the joint account money will be split 50/50 on there?"
My first thoguht - she's *still* trying to fill it in?! Only took me half an hour - she's had the form for over a week and a half. Also, I'd already put a note on the form about splitting that account 50/50 - she clearly hasn't read it. Oh well!
I'm going to respond:
"Hi.
Thank you for sending me the bills. Yes there is already a sentence about that in the additional info section. I appreciate there's a lot of info to put down."
Still maintaining the high road, polite, business-like comms.
Hey Dan
I wouldnt thank her for sending you bills. In any event, all she's saying is she's paid the bills, or am i isundersatanding something.
I wouldnt validate either about appreciating there's a lot of info to put down
Cheers, DS
Yes it is all so sudden. She literally decided within 24 hours to D. Impulsive to the end - it was her decision (along with her enablers) to rush the D and not bother trying to discuss things.
Nobody decides to D on a 24 hour period. What may seem like something impulsive to you, is something that the WAS has been planning and has been on the verge of quite sometime.
DS - On reflection, you're right. I probably shouldn't have said so much in my response. It was late and I was in the middle of sorting my accounts out, and her text broke my concentration somewhat. I did wait half an hour to respond though.
Ginger - well she certainly didn't tell me before lol! When she 'caught' me the 2nd time (pics on my phone), back in 2017/18, she didn't mention it or threaten me with it then. She suggested counselling but because of my NGS I didn't think it was necessary (do the same thing over and over again, get frustrated when it doesn't work out, but keep doing it anyway in the hope that it'll work one day).
She was essentially waiting for me to change, without bringing it up regularly. She told me this in person: "I didn't say anything because I thought you'd figure it out yourself. But no, you didn't."
We were definitely not having the DB/DR style of conversations like:
"When you do [x], I feel [y]. I am concerned about [x]. I would like to discuss this and see if we can move forward and so I can stop feeling [y and you feel more comfortable etc. etc]."
OK she has filled in the form. finally.
Do I ask her to send it off, or do I do it as I originally contacted them and got the form and sorted payment?
Hey Dan
Mate I’d just give her the lawyers email and tell her to send it there. You’re 2 separate parties in a legal proceeding so that’s the appropriate way to do things- separately.
Hear you on the figuring it out yourself as to changes confusion. Not sure if you ever got it, but very often after her fit of fury over changes or plain anger I’d get a sorry I’m such a bitch or I don’t know what came over me, and one time I remember after a big argument she started sending me texts with holiday suggestions! That type of thing was her way of breaking the tension and I let it ride because I was relieved we were back to normal. Well if that ever happens again I’m not going to gloss over it but rather talk about it and discover what’s the underlying base issue and confront it in a mature and thorough fashion.
We’re not naive nice guys any more are we Dan.
Cheers DS
Yes - absolutely I got that too. I got texts with:
"I'm sorry for being mad."
"I'm sorry if I say anything out of anger - I don't mean it." - my male brain processes that with 'why say it then?!'
"Sorry if that sounded harsh."
I then had a discussion with her about moving my computer etc into her work room so we could spend time together when working rather than in separate rooms, then she was talking to me about wallpapering our bedroom and painting another room and getting a fitted wardrobe etc. This was before the sudden 3-weeks of absolutely unplanned NC from her.
!!!
I will just check over things and tell her to send it on. I've done my bit so she can do the emailing surely.
Since IC and reading up on everything and being on this excellent board, I'm stopping to think how I'd react in situations and what would be the best way to approach problems. I think in time that'll become natural.
Had a great evening out with sister last night.
Had a half day at work, where I finished something very complex and broke the back of it, then we went into London. Went shopping for a bit then watched the show. Fantastic time, and although we got back late it was worth it.
I would have gone with W (was originally a Valentine's present), but I had removed the event from our shared calendar back in June, and I believe she's forgotten about it completely, so no worries there.
W sent her version of the form back to me to check (no issues), and has volunteered to send it off so no need to ask about that. I'll email her back today.
Keeping very busy over the next few days. Kind of crucial to keep my brain occupied as Christmas was always a romantic time for W and I, especially in our house. Setting up the tree, putting the decorations out, meals out etc.
Tonight - gym, plus my sister is coming over to help me tidy up my parents' bathroom (parents are out til Monday on a trip away so we thought we'd surprise them).
Saturday - watching 2 shows in London - a musical matinee performance, then a symphony concert in the evening.
Sunday - Gig. Clearly people need me to play for them! This one is nice as it's an afternoon gig so I'll be home by early evening to make my own dinner. I can finally cook with chilli and garlic (my parents hate it so their food is always quite bland!).
Noticed there was a mistake on the form that W filled in. I've asked her to check it.
My mum has decided she will send W's parents a card. I said this is absolutely fine - probably for the best, just acting normal. We have agreed that if W's mum rings and asks how I'm doing, my mum will say I'm "fine" and "keeping very busy with work". Should she mention that my IC has finished or that I'm going to the gym a lot? W's mum will probably ask a lot of questions. I'm guessing not - be the 'mysterious' person, you know?
Had a voicemail and then a text from W:
Voicemail (approx.):
"Hi, we've had an offer on the house of £x. I need your input on this- I think it's too low and that we might come back with a counter-offer of £y. Can you let me know please?"
Was very weird hearing her voice. Haven't spoken to her in nearly 3 months. I deleted the message immediately.
Text about 5 mins later:
"Hi, we've had an offer on the house of £x. I said I'd speak to you but I think we should come back with £y as I don't really want to go lower than that if we can...what do you think?"
I'm going to reply by text, not call:
"Hi, thanks for your message. I agree £x is too low. Yes, please go back with £y as a counter and we'll see what they say."
That OK? No validation needed as she hasn't expressed any emotion at all, keeping it very polite with please/thank you. Just down to the issue and that's it.
Sounds good to me, keep it to the business. Are you agreeing with her counter recommendation? If so, you could say:
"Hi, thanks for your message. I agree £x is too low and that £x is reasonable, feel free to counter with it"
To me, the "please go back..." sounds like you are giving her direction. Having said that, it's nit-picking - it won't bring her closer or drive her away.
Hey Dan
Glad to hear there’s an offer. Speak to agents before you counter to get feedback on the buyers attitude and current market and correctness of counter offer. Don’t rely on her
Then
“Hi. Good call. please counter at £xxxx. Thx Regds Dan”
You’re too busy to do lengthy replies when it’s strictly biz.
Nothing there to validate either mate
Cheers DS
Very busy weekend and had a positive time throughout.
Friday night my sister and I worked really hard and sorting out my parents' bathrooms - we cleaned them within an inch of their lives and made everything look good. My parents are both quite frail and find it hard to bend down to clean etc. so I help them out whenever I can.
Saturday went to see a musical in a tiny new theatre in London - was brilliant as I'd been waiting for this particular show to come around for years. Finally got to see it on the last day of the run.
Then went to a concert hall in the evening for an orchestra concert which was really interesting; they played a very long innovative piece by a composer I'd never heard of. Nice to always discover new things.
Sunday's gig went well, and I was home by 6pm as it was an afternoon one. Got paid more than I thought too. My plan is to put most of my gig money on my credit card so by the time the house is sold I'll have very little or no debt at all. I don't have a huge balance on it but I like to pay it off asap even though I'm doing it early and don't need to!
My sister said again that she thinks what W has done is a waste. She said, "So it's only taken you 6 months to sort yourself out. It just seems so wasteful for her to give up and walk away when you've clearly improved yourself. I would understand if you had both gone to counselling for a bit, then you relapsed and didn't seem to care, because she'd say you need to do it alone. I don't understand why she wouldn't want to try."
Made me feel a bit better, but I just carried on GALing.
Text from W today:
"The couple didn't increase their offer. We have another viewing today with another couple so hopefully they'll be interested."
Second text a few mins later:
"Oh and make sure you've got your phone on you, so we can agree to any offers they might make."
I just replied: "OK, thanks for letting me know" and left it at that.
I'm desperate for her to see the improvements I've made, but that won't happen unless we see each other. No idea when I'll see her next.
Feels like the picnic I'm having outside the castle is being 'moved on' to somewhere further away!
Do I need to do anything differently to what I'm doing presently?
Another text from W:
"If the couple today don't make an offer, think we should probably accept [£x]. It's a good offer in the current climate and we're still making profit. Don't want to be lumbered paying that mortgage for ages when neither of us are living there. Do you agree? It would make for an easy life and I think we both need that."
Urgh!
I'm not too happy with accepting what is a low-ish offer. I'm also unhappy with her last sentence.
How should I respond?
Thinking;
"Let's try £295k, if not then go for £290k as you say." Leave it at just that?
Do I need to acknowledge this 'we both need an easy life' thing at all?
As someone that just paid a mortgage on a house for a year and a half, I understand where she is coming from. Remember, each month that goes on cuts into the profit. So you have to decide if $5000 is worth the risk of paying for a few for months of principle, interest, taxes, and utilities.
But do not give in if you feel strongly otherwise. Keep your texts very business like. You will likely see her at closing. Be ready to be the best DaB you can be that day. Otherwise, just keep 180ing for you, not her.
Thanks Steve - I value your input.
In a weird way, I am looking forward to being able to be the best version of me in front of her when that time comes. We need to decide who gets the minor items in the house anyway (kitchen bits, bedding etc. - the not too valuable stuff). We agreed to do that later after sale.
Knowing that my IC has wrapped in 6 months, and that I've started a gym routine and seeing the benefits (both physically and mentally) after just 2 months has massively helped my DBing.
I feel happy that I've progressed as a person so much. Glad that I've found time to do lots of things I never did before (e.g. go to London alone all day to watch a show just because I want to see it) and have been braver in social situations (forcing myself to speak to new people at gigs for example).
My IC said I was "an amazing client to work with" as I "jumped into therapy and took it very seriously." That was a nice boost too. Made it all worth it.
Of course I miss her, but I know she's thrown this away because of pride and because she is a massive people pleaser - she told everyone within a few days of discovery, and she doesn't like going against what others tell her to do (especially her family and close friends). My family are upset at this because they feel she should have just contacted them and kept it between us and then we could have sorted things out together as a small group. The fact that my therapy only lasted 6 months and not years suggests we could have done this.
I just responded to W as above. Keeping it business-like as per everyone's advice. I've found I'm not worrying about attempting to mind-read her thoughts anymore.
Dan, it sounds like maybe you're trying to hang onto the house as a way of hanging onto your W. Just let it go, and let her go. You may have a future together but it's not going to be anytime soon, it's way down the road. So until then you've got to let this all play out.
I'm desperate for her to see the improvements I've made, but that won't happen unless we see each other. No idea when I'll see her next.
Your improvements are for you, not her. Right now she doesn't care about an R with you, so it doesn't matter if she sees them or not.
Feels like the picnic I'm having outside the castle is being 'moved on' to somewhere further away!
The idea of the picnic is that you are living your life and you are letting her live hers. If she comes closer you don't do anything different. If she moves farther away you don't do anything different. She can and will come closer and then distance, that's normal. You just keep doing what you're doing.
Do I need to do anything differently to what I'm doing presently?
Nope, you're doing fine.
It would make for an easy life and I think we both need that.
I'm also unhappy with her last sentence.
How should I respond?
Don't respond to that part at all, just stick to business. Selling a house is always tricky business. You might refuse their offer and get another right away, or you might get stuck with it another 6 months regretting having not taken the offer. Like Steve said, the longer you sit on it and pay mortgage payments, then the more you are eating into potential profit, so keep that in mind. I've seen people refuse an offer and then 6 months later desperately accept an offer that is far lower than the one they refused!
Thanks AS.
I hadn't considered that about the house being a way of hanging on to W.
The plan then I suppose is to
-Continue doing what I'm doing
-Be happy and stay happy
-Don't take the bait and respond to somewhat loaded comments from W if they come
-Enjoy my improvements and reap the reward I'm getting for my own benefit
-Don't expect W to find out about all my changes etc. - she may get to hear about it secondhand eventually, e.g. from mutual friends, but I will absolutely not go out of my way at all to tell her
I may have doubts about myself (i.e. how I'd react) for those times she will 'come closer' to the picnic in the future. I will of course come here for advice before I do anything stupid or otherwise!!
A close friend asked how I was doing - I said I was doing well, keeping very busy with things (didn't go into lots of detail). He then asked about my IC and I said it had wrapped up and I completed it last month.
He is a close mutual friend of W too, so at some point he will tell her what I've told him. I think what I said was sufficient - not too detailed (I didn't list all my GAL stuff for example), and I just gave confident positive answers.
My mum has written an Xmas card to W's parents. I haven't seen what she's written in it. We've agreed if W's mum rings her, and asks about me she'll say "He's fine. He's very busy with work and other things" initially and leave it at that.
Text from W.
House is SOLD!
Slightly annoyed that she didn't come to me first to tell me about the offer, but there we go. Don't think it's worth bringing that up.
We now need to get a valuation from a RICS surveyor (to help with another certain element of the loan we used to buy the house originally). I've told W that needs to happen, and asked when we need to get our stuff out.
Should I organise the surveyor etc myself, or ask W to do it?
Another update (!)
W:
"We haggled a bit. That was after a few offers so higher than they originally said. You and I both need to email the estate agent to confirm in writing we agree with the offer.
OK can you be in charge of sorting out the RICS surveyor then? No idea about dates, but had a call from the buyer's conveyancer, and they're starting to get the ball moving."
OK. So this is it.
I don't trust her to sort out the surveyor, so shall I do it? I don't want to, but maybe that's down to having emotional attachments to the house.
I read something in the Quotes section on being Friends vs Friendly
[quote\]"Someone who divorces me without valuing me enough to try and salvage our M, who doesn't believe that promises and vows are important enough to make a change, who has no real remorse, and who still thinks only of what he wants, is not someone I want in my life.
Those actions show a lack of integrity, a lack of reliability and inner strength, a lack of kindness, and a willingness to cut and run when the going gets tough."[/quote]
Not sure I'm at the stage where I say 'I don't want W in my life', but the sentiment of not valuing what we had and just being happy to throw it away so quickly, with seemingly no thought of wanting to put effort in and running away when things are tough or very bumpy, is very pertinent.
For what I did in the M and R, I have complete remorse. I'm done with the shame, I've dealt with it and left it behind. I've moved on in the sense that I've improved as a person, but I haven't moved on from W as it's only been 6 months.
Recon would be nice but I am not pushing. I am not being overtly nice to W but just pleasant and polite. And keeping my distance. She's keeping hers. I will maintain this.
Am I doing the right stuff here?
-Continue doing what I'm doing
-Be happy and stay happy
-Don't take the bait and respond to somewhat loaded comments from W if they come
-Enjoy my improvements and reap the reward I'm getting for my own benefit
-Don't expect W to find out about all my changes etc. - she may get to hear about it secondhand eventually, e.g. from mutual friends, but I will absolutely not go out of my way at all to tell her
I may have doubts about myself (i.e. how I'd react) for those times she will 'come closer' to the picnic in the future. I will of course come here for advice before I do anything stupid or otherwise!!
Very nice list!
I don't trust her to sort out the surveyor, so shall I do it?
Yes.
I don't want to, but maybe that's down to having emotional attachments to the house.
I think you're right.
Not sure I'm at the stage where I say 'I don't want W in my life', but the sentiment of not valuing what we had and just being happy to throw it away so quickly, with seemingly no thought of wanting to put effort in and running away when things are tough or very bumpy, is very pertinent.
It is indeed, to many of us! In the end that's what drove me away from my XW, the complete and utter lack of interest in lifting a finger to save the M.
I am not being overtly nice to W but just pleasant and polite. And keeping my distance. She's keeping hers. I will maintain this.
Am I doing the right stuff here?
Yes I think you're striking a good balance.
Thanks AS - I'll contact the surveyor tomorrow. W isn't pushing me to do it today, so she can wait!
She also hasn't got back to me about the finance court order, even though I've asked her to check something. She had typed over some of my info so my credit card total doesn't add up with the figure below it now. She hasn't responded yet (!).
One thing that really upset me is that she said she "didn't want to be with someone" who was "having mental problems...I just want a normal man." Thought that was harsh, especially when I had began IC and was immediately doing what my C had told me to do rather than be timid about it and scared to change. Makes me think if she found someone else and he treated her like **** would she be happy that he 'had no problems'?
Thanks for the boost saying I'm doing the right balance of stuff. I'll keep at it.
OK - booked the surveyor for Monday morning. W agreed to be in.
Just one more phonecall to make then I think I don't need to do anything.
W has sent off the finance court order form - got an email from the L about it today.
Feel a bit sad today. Feels final. The house is the last tie really. I don't know how I feel to be honest. Part of me is relieved it's over. Part of me is extremely sad that I've lost her and M and R. Part of me is angry at myself and her for allowing this to happen, and for not DBing earlier (though I hadn't heard about DBing til August, by which time W had already filed for D). Another part of me still is happy that I've improved a lot about myself in six months and that IC has addressed lots of issues.
Had a few thoughts this evening.
Should I assist W with the L forms re house sale? They have sent a few things out to me but as W has been liaising with the estate agents I don't really know what I'm supposed to be doing. I've forwarded them to W and asked if we both need to supply info, or if she has the info already and can just do it herself.
In helping the house sale by filling in a couple of forms, I'm still worrying that I'm giving her the impression that I don't want her, and that I want the D to happen. I don't want to argue by saying "no I won't do that - you do it," but not sure if me helping is telling her that I don't care and that I agree the M is over and we have no chance of R in the future.
One part of me is however thinking, well if she cannot be bothered, do I WANT to be with someone who has no interest in working on a M when things get rough and tough, and instead just throws it away because she would rather stick by principles she had when she was 17 and not change and remain stubborn? Trouble is, for all her flaws, she was great for me in so many ways.
Or does this not matter now - do I just do it, not be obstructive, just remain polite, and continue to GAL and just eventually get to a stage where - if we do meet up - she will see a changed, confident me and be left wondering what she has thrown away? Having said that, I do know that my changes are for ME not her. I get that.
Hey Dan,
Congrats, but commiserations to on the sale mate.
I wouldn't help or volunteer anything with these forms. Let her come to you, and rebuff what she can and should do herself. You're not "Do it all Dan" anymore mate.
Remember, her impression of whether or not you want her is immaterial. It's probably the last thing on her mind right now. What is material is whether or not she wants you, so remember to keep DB'ing to give yourself the best shot. Indeed, doesn't DB say that you should be giving the impression that your fine whether or not you have her? Read up on that thread about pursuit and distance.
Cheers DS
Feel a bit sad today. Feels final. The house is the last tie really. I don't know how I feel to be honest. Part of me is relieved it's over. Part of me is extremely sad that I've lost her and M and R. Part of me is angry at myself and her for allowing this to happen, and for not DBing earlier (though I hadn't heard about DBing til August, by which time W had already filed for D). Another part of me still is happy that I've improved a lot about myself in six months and that IC has addressed lots of issues.
I know exactly how you feel. You've done everything "right" and net/net you still don't feel good. What keeps me going is that I know that I felt bad for a day or two in November, same in Oct, and so on... and then I felt better. Every milestone (listing house, STBXW moving out, selling house, etc.) hit me, some more than others, some in unexpected ways. Then I went to sleep, went to work, GAL'd, and sort of forgot about it. But it definitely hurts in the moment.
Or does this not matter now - do I just do it, not be obstructive, just remain polite, and continue to GAL and just eventually get to a stage where - if we do meet up - she will see a changed, confident me and be left wondering what she has thrown away? Having said that, I do know that my changes are for ME not her. I get that.
This is what I have to remind myself, too. And your point about our W's throwing this away. I did far worse things than you but the point remains that you and I are willing to work, to look inward and challenge ourselves to our core. They, on the other hand, are fed up, done, exhausted, and walking. Actions not words and all that but, to your point, if they don't see the actions, will that change anything? Maybe not, and you and I both know that we are making ourselves better for ourselves, not them. So, worst case scenario is that we end up with other people who love us for who we are, who want to work 50/50 on the marriage. Meanwhile, our XWs are on to the next, probably wondering why things aren't perfect, didn't learn how to work through issues. Sounds petty but I sometimes have to remind myself "oh well, her loss"
I wouldn't help or volunteer anything with these forms. Let her come to you, and rebuff what she can and should do herself. You're not "Do it all Dan" anymore mate.
I had thought this. I needed to put the mortgage info on the form as the bank's account is only in my name and only I have the log in details. Apart from that, I just sent it back to her and said "I've not submitted it." She isn't arguing or questioning why I've not sent it off.
Indeed, doesn't DB say that you should be giving the impression that your fine whether or not you have her? Read up on that thread about pursuit and distance.
You're right. I'm trying but it's hard to think that it comes across as uncaring, particularly when we haven't really spoken much for 3 months and haven't been in the same room as each other for the same length of time.
...but the point remains that you and I are willing to work, to look inward and challenge ourselves to our core. They, on the other hand, are fed up, done, exhausted, and walking. Actions not words and all that but, to your point, if they don't see the actions, will that change anything? Maybe not, and you and I both know that we are making ourselves better for ourselves, not them. So, worst case scenario is that we end up with other people who love us for who we are, who want to work 50/50 on the marriage. Meanwhile, our XWs are on to the next, probably wondering why things aren't perfect, didn't learn how to work through issues. Sounds petty but I sometimes have to remind myself "oh well, her loss"
I think the same too. I've done a lot of introspection and internal work. And maintained it. She hasn't. Definitely her loss - she only had to wait 6 months and to be honest things may have been wonderful and would be even better than they were. But she had no intention of working on it at the time: "I can't be bothered to put the effort in" were her words. I'll never forget that. So sad of her to say that.
Just had some emails from her this morning. We have an online form about the house to fill in for the estate agent. TONS of questions. I have no idea how to answer them. I've done a bare minimum of filling in and will just go back to W and say "Can't help on [xyz]."
Had to fill in a few forms today about the house sale. I politely pushed back on a large chunk of them to W and she has filled them in without complaining. Thansk DS, that worked!
I filled in the bits that only I could because the original forms were emailed to me personally. I've done that.
Just need to wait for W's next instruction. I'm not really communicating with the estate agents - it's all her project remember - so just waiting for my next task really.
Separate issue:
Do I give W an Xmas present? I mentioned on an earlier thread; I have a non-romantic thing (small, cheap) that I could give her. It doesn't really have any significance in our relationship - it's just a small item that I might get a friend for example.
I also really want to write a little note for her to say effectively, "sorry that it came to this" but I know, I KNOW, that is not the right thing to do and won't really help anything. When D finally goes through it feels like a note would be closure, but I know this isn't Hollywood.
I'm so tired of all this, and it's only been 6 months. Her stubbornness and impulsive nature knows no bounds.
I will be ok though. I'm remaining positive.
"Hope for the best, prepare for the worst" isn't it?
Surveyor coming round to view the house today. W was at the house to meet them.
Bit stressful really - I know I'm not there and it's entirely her project, but it's just making things more real.
I am trying to put a lot of effort into maintaining my PMA and attitude, so if W does need to see me in person, I can be confident and demonstrate my 180s. I do know that it's not for her at all, it's for me. I do however want some of the satisfaction that will come from showing her how I've turned myself around.
Any advice on the above dilemma re Xmas present?
D,
Would you buy a boss who fired you a Christmas gift?
LH - thanks, good point.
I feel torn with this to be honest.
One hand - yes I agree, I've been fired as a husband. She doesn't want - rather, feels she doesn't want - me in her life anymore in that capacit: someone to help her with things, answer her questions, support her etc.
She feels that the only way to cope with everything is to blow up the M and D me.
She isn't telling me she misses me (or she does miss me, but isn't admitting it to anyone - I know, no mind-reading!!).
Other hand - this woman means so much to me. Despite all her flaws, I loved her immensely, and genuinely. Despite the hurt I inflicted on her, I felt we could have worked on the R, especially since my IC only took six months to get through. Effectively ignoring her at Christmas feels like I don't care about her any more, when actually I'm not fully detached yet and do care about her still.
But then, is this the point? Is this true DBing - would she be expecting me to get her a gift, so therefore me not giving her anything will wrongfoot her somewhat?
Will me not doing anything give ammo to her sister and friends saying, "well he clearly doesn't care about you otherwise he'd have at least got you something."?
Will me giving her something make them think, "He doesn't get it yet does he? What a moron!"
Will be tough not seeing W on Xmas morning, and not even getting a text from her. It's going to be hard but I have my family, and meeting up with some friends over the holiday too, so should be nice at least.
I wouldn't worry about what her family and friends think about you and whether you give her a gift or not. At this point in time, I wouldn't give her a gift. After all, you are in the process of selling your home and the divorce may be around the corner. However, if you opt to purchase something for her, the best gift is a gift card to one of the places she frequents. Keep it simple and impersonal.
Try to remember...she fired you as her husband.
Thanks Job.
OK - yes I've seen the gift card thing being regularly mentioned in other threads. So it's is a good 'safe' bet essentially rather than anything else then?
The gift I got her (well, 'in waiting' I suppose) is a small china espresso cup & saucer with a fancy pattern on it that she really likes, but has been discontinued for some years now from the manufacturer. She used to work for a china shop and they gave her a full dinner set as a leaving gift (!) in this style, but her brother snapped it up (to this day I've no idea why) and he now owns it as his dinner set. She is still rather bitter about this and does moan about it whenever the subject comes up!
It was not expensive as I bought it second hand - we're talking under £25, so actually that's roughly the value of a gift card I would get a friend anyway.
I have a good idea of what places she could use a gift card for, so I'll think about that.
Dan, I would either not buy her a gift as Job and LH suggested, or if that just really bugs you then say something to her like "I figured given the state of things that we would not be exchanging gifts this year, is that what you were thinking as well?" The only reason I suggest that is despite everything, I imagine you would feel terrible if she did end up getting you something and you didn't have anything for her. But I definitely would not just "surprise" her with a gift because that will come off as pursuit.
I also really want to write a little note for her to say effectively, "sorry that it came to this" but I know, I KNOW, that is not the right thing to do and won't really help anything. When D finally goes through it feels like a note would be closure, but I know this isn't Hollywood.
You are right. I know it's very tempting, but why are YOU apologizing for what SHE is doing. Yes you played a part in the demise of the M, but you are the one trying to save it and she is the one kicking it/ you to the curb. If anything, she is the one that owes you an apology.
All food for thought everyone, thanks for your input.
Yes when you put it like that, I played a part in upsetting the stability of the M, but yo uare right - she is the one who has decided the blow it up.
It is such a waste. I really think that if she didn't do this we could have got MC and DB-ed effectively as a couple. A lot of people have said to me, "Is that all you did?" or "Why wouldn't she want to try?"
Anyway - off to the gym now!
"Why wouldn't she want to try?"
A question my XW was asked many times by me (before DB), friends, family and the MC. Her answer? "I don't know, I just don't want to try anymore." That's what it's like to fall out of love, they just quit caring.
Just signed up for a new set of exams - this will take 3 years roughly, but there'll be a nice big pay rise at the end of it once I achieve it!
Gym is going well - I'm upping weights on everything gradually. Definitely seeing some improvements.
This week GAL plans are:
-Haircut this week
-Meeting friend for catch-up lunch tomorrow
-Work Xmas meal out Thursday
-Gym today, tomorrow, and Friday
-Tidying up home/going through instruments/books and seeing if there are any more I can sell
-More project work
-Poss overtime at weekend (means more money in January!)
Also I am planning on wearing my belatedly delivered Xmas Jumper (Back to the Future themed!) to work. It's rather tasteful haha!
Slight downer is having to go to the house on Friday night. But Look at that list- so many positives against one negative.
My W is missing out so much on the new me.
Hey Dan
Sounds like you're doing well mate. With the gift, I would have just got her a gift card and put iti in one of those nice gift card wallets - made out of cardboard, beautifully decorated etc. That was if she gives you a gift it's in your pocket ready to go. If not, it stays in your pocket.
How's the gym improvements going? Noticing the changes?
Cheers, DS
Hi DS
Yes, thinking about the gift card idea. I'll think on it and decide later today.
Have to go to the house tomorrow to sign a form (W has left it on the dining table for me) and pick up a few things.
Gym is going well. Yoga is really helping in particular; I do it every Wednesday evening, and it just relaxes me and clears my head for an hour. I'm upping weights gradually and seeing changes now. I've always had a very slight and skinny build, so it'll take time to tone up properly but obviously not looking to body build or anything like that!!
My parents and sister have cards for W. I will take them and leave them on the table. I think that's fine; they cannot be said to be pursuing since they and W haven't spoken in 6 months. I won't get her a card.
Hey Dan don’t think too much about the gift card just do it. Something generic like you’d give to a colleague. China set was something you’d give in your old life.
Gifts are tough sometimes. I remember our first xmas together I got her a CD. She was banging on about how much she loved a band so I got her the CD. She absolutely lost it saying a CD isn’t something you give for a special occasion blah blah. Mind you oftentimes she’d forget gifts for me or do something at the last minute. Anyway.
With gym don’t just go for toned go for bulk then tone. I was slim too but tall. I’m getting really happy with my chest shoulders and rib muscles and am doing heavy weight but short reps. Really transform so next time she sees you she drools at your physical stature and is seduced by your happy confident commanding vibe and presence. Her not seeing you is giving you the gift of time to transform and surprise her.
I would have your relos post her the cards. Anyway why on earth would they want to give her anything?
Cheers ds
Thanks DS. At the mo I'm doing 3x12reps for most things and gradually increasing when I can. Are you saying I could try doing 3x8reps for example but with heavier weights, and that'll give quicker results?
Yes I've really taken the chance of this NC period to improve on my appearance. I was never scruffy but I always walked out in public with a timidness and reluctance to portray confidence. Everyone is now saying I'm looking well, and "carrying myself" better and look more confident, so it's obviously working!
It's more of a cultural thing. My mum is half-Indian. It's basically a culture of be generous to everyone, even if they've wronged/upset you. My dad just goes along with it and doesn't see a problem with it. My sister has picked up on this and she always sends cards, presents etc. They are very forgiving and patient people (to an extent lol!).
Having to fill in a few forms regarding the house sale. We have to stipulate what we'll be taking, leaving, etc. W has done the majority of it - she's just asked me to check a few things.
Hey Dan yeah I reckon try the shorter reps but higher weights. Ie instead of 12 at 10kg barbell try 8 at 15kg.
They say you should only be able to do 8 to 12 reps before you can’t do anymore if it’s the right weight
Good on you for transforming Dan it must be pleasing to hear the compliments
I hear you about the culture thing. Do you identify strongly with your Indian heritage? I think i too have that trait. I’m of Polish descent and dad was very proud of our noble roots and the gentlemanly aspects which I always aspired to. Keep being a generous gentleman Dan, but perhaps tone down the generosity with XW . And just be mindful of not getting taken advantage of!
Cheers ds
Yes good advice, thanks!
OK. I will try that when I go tonight. I'm up to 60kg on the leg press, 35kg on the lat machine and 'low row'. Shoulder Press is still a challenge; I'm on 15kg @ 12 reps and that's tough! I'll keep that as it is, but I'll try upping everything else by 2.5 to 5kg more.
Yes the compliments, mainly from friends and colleagues, are a massive boost. It says to me that I'm dealing with all of this in a right way. Old me would have been very depressed and unwilling to do anything, just pining for W, begging even now etc. So me getting out and GALing is a huge 180 in the first place.
I don't identify strongly with my Indian roots. Discussing this in IC brought up the topic of it contributing to my NGS. Indian parents like to 'boast' about their children and tell the world how perfect and wonderful they are, and it's a BIG deal if they make even a little mistake (as in a tiny mistake that most people would think, "Ah well, that has happened, but it's ok now, no problem.").
My mum hates it when she plans something - e.g. I pick someone up at this time, drop them off here at x time, we do [y] activity, then do [z] and go home - and then something throws that, e.g. Person B forgot to bring something for Person A which means [y] cannot happen, or is delayed. She gets very frustrated by that.
This rubbed off on me because I felt duty bound to be perfect all the time. I would always be anxious if I did something wrong and of my mum finding out - even something tiny like getting a speeding ticket from a camera or breaking something, I'd never tell her as I know she'd be upset and berate rather strongly me for it.
W was very similar in parading me about and bigging me up to everyone she knew, saying "My H is perfect and amazing and he does this and this and this round the house and he helps clean and buys me nice things and blah blah blah." So if I did something wrong (but not major), like put the wrong colour clothes in the wash so it discoloured one of her nice tops, or our newest set of bedding, she'd go crazy at me. That made me feel like I'd REALLY let her down and was not worthy of being with her and made such a mess of things.
Yet I never called W out on things that upset me - for example she never wore her wedding rings (she genuinely got ezcema from the metal and her fingers swelled up), but would constantly say she wanted to get a necklace made so she could wear them round her neck - she never did that. I always wore mine and felt upset she wasn't trying to move that forward. As the NGS book says, I was losing my 'personal power' in the R and M.
I think this is why W is so distraught about discovering my addiction. She never thought I'd be capable of doing it. So I do understand her feeling of betrayal of my lying and concealing it from her for years (all due to shame but she doesn't care about that if I ever brought that up as a reason). However, I will not dwell on that too much as I'm over it and IC has helped me get it out of my life.
Feels great - it's like a snowball effect. I used distraction tactics whilst going 'cold turkey', then I got used to the distractions and started enjoying those more, then they became "stuff I do when not at work". Then reading the advice here and in various books on Audible etc helped me further. I feel more confident, so I walk more confidently, so more people notice, I get complimented, I feel better, I continue to do it, I still feel better about myself, etc. And on it goes.
Thanks DS. At the mo I'm doing 3x12reps for most things and gradually increasing when I can. Are you saying I could try doing 3x8reps for example but with heavier weights, and that'll give quicker results?
That used to be the school of thought, but these days most people believe that mixing things up on a regular basis is the best way to continue making gains. It keeps your body from settling into a routine. The best gauge of progress is how sore you are after a workout. Soreness is an indication of how far you've torn your muscles down. Bodybuilding is a constant process of tearing your muscles down and then giving them time to recover and rebuild. If you're not sore at all then your body has adapted to your routine and quit growing, so change something up. Maybe that's more sets of fewer reps at a heavier weight, or higher reps at a lower weight, or completely different exercises, or focusing more heavily on one particular body part for a while, anything to mix it up.
I used to do solely weight training and after years my upper body was solid but my cardio was terrible! My gym closed and I joined Crossfit. Wow was that an adjustment, I was sore for 2 or 3 days every time I worked out. But after a couple of years of that my cardio was great but I had lost a lot of upper body muscle mass. I've kept doing Crossfit but also joined a conventional gym again a year ago as well and do both at least twice a week. For me that has been the best balance of working on strength, building muscle and also keeping my cardio up.
How's your diet? 40% of gaining muscle is in the gym and 60% in the kitchen! I mentioned tearing your muscles down and giving them time to recover, feeding your body the right levels of protein, carbs and fat is crucial to the rebuilding phase. You should take in at least 1 gram of protein per pound bodyweight a day. That's a LOT of protein so it's important to track it to be sure you're on point. Also drink at least a gallon of water a day.
Fitness has been a lifelong passion of mine, interestingly the only time I got away from actively remaining fit was after our 3rd kid was born. I went about 6 or 7 years doing little to nothing to stay fit. I didn't get obese, but lost my trim physique and got soft-looking. Maybe it's a coincidence that my XW fell out of love during the same time, or maybe not?
Useful info AS, thanks.
My diet is pretty good I think. I have lots of vegetables, fruit once or twice a day, a bit of sugar here and there. I'm trying to cut down on carbs (my Dad likes to cook at home but he is very much stuck in the 1970s - meat, potatoes, one or two steamed vegs, or stir fry with the same stuff in it every time).
My parents appear to have potatoes with every meal and I find it BORING and I don't have them at all really now. I've got used to cooking with garlic, chilli, making my own pesto, making my own bread etc. So I try as far as possible to cook my own meals with fresh stuff. Difficult when my parents' kitchen is tiny and they don't get very adventurous in the kitchen!
I'm having vegan protein shakes as post-workout drinks as a type of recovery. I'm good with water - the gym says the level of water content in my body is very high which means I'm drinking enough already.
Awesome, sounds like you're on the right track! Nice work!
Thanks - it means a lot when people on my thread give me little boosts too.
Getting ready to leave to go to the house. W has left some paperwork that I have to sign, plus need to collect mail and a few instruments from the garage. I'll check I haven't forgotten anything as I don't intend to be back over Xmas - want to chill out and spend time with my family and my best friend is visiting the UK from Thailand so that'll be good to see him. I'll leave parent's cards on the table, sign the paperwork, collect my things, and leave.
Back from the house. W forgot to turn the alarm off again (!) even though she texted me earlier today knowing I was going to be there.
She had printed a few forms ready for me to sign. She texted to say "can you print the the other forms when you're there and sign your bits then leave them for me to sign when I'm next there?"
I emailed back a few hours later saying, "I can't print anything as I don't have a computer there. I will post them to the house for you to pick up." - unavoidable sadly as i have to sign them myself and she has to sign them, and it has to be paper copies annoyingly.
I don't understand why she thought I'd be able to print them at the house?!
Also, I asked about whether we'd leave/take bathroom cabinets. She said "Yeah leave them, it'll be stressful enough as it is without trying to take them off the walls. You can have them if you want, but I'm not dismantling them."
Thought it funny that she was under the impression I had asked her to take them off the wall. All I asked was "Do you want to take them/split them, or leave them?"
She's clearly not with it!
Update-
Sending off surveyor form for house. W has asked me to post her the forms that need signing. As mentioned before, they can't be emailed and have to be signed in hard copy by both of us, so unavoidable.
She is going up to see her sister for 2 weeks (not quite sure how she can stretch a visit there to 14 days but there we go!). My best friend has come over from abroad and she only saw him briefly once.
It's awful how my two best mates have to arrange to see W behind my back and then tell me after the fact, almost sheepishly admitting that they have seen her.
Do I text W on Xmas day?
If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't text her. Allow her to "feel" the loss of your presence this holiday season. The only way that she's going to miss what she had is if you step back and give her that space and time she requires.
If she texts you, do not respond quickly...give it a couple of hours or so. You do not want her to think that you are sitting there waiting for her to call and/or text you.
I would keep the focus on you, your family and friends for now.
Ok thanks Job. I will do that.
Email from W - saying that the alarm is off. Estate agent had to unplug it when buyers walked around. She asked if I could go to the house to plug it back in (2hr round trip for me), as she's worried that it's unoccupied and with no alarm.
W is up in Scotland for 2 weeks.
I said I "was busy today" (24th) and "will see if I can go tomorrow evening." I mentioned that the lights I've fitted with timers are working. That was my reply. Two sentences.
Old me would have leapt in the car straightaway and done exactly as she asked, so that's a big leap for me.
Merry Xmas Everyone!
Hope everyone here had a good Xmas yesterday wherever you were.
I never got a text from W yesterday. I didn't contact her either. I took my ring off when my family went out for Xmas dinner. I put it back on today; I think I just want to keep it on until the absolute last minute.
I may go to the house today to check the alarm. I understand the concern as we still have lots of valuable stuff in there. I was also going to check for my mail and ensure I haven't left any more important paperwork there.
W is staying with her sister until January. Don't know how she could do that - I would get bored staying there after only 4 days or so!
Did a bit of thinking last night.
This whole ordeal has made me realise how much W relies on her sister to guide her through everything; it's like she can't do something without running it by her first. Very frustrating. I never mentioned this frustration to W which I regret. It's like W 'looks up' to her sister constantly and must appease her sister and her friends all the time - she really REALLY struggles to say 'no', she'd prefer to say 'yes' and instead moans to me about what an inconvenience they have inflicted on her.
I never understood that. But then, I was doing a very similar thing myself, just to avoid conflict with W.
This is why my IC believes I put that pic of W's sister in that online chat; it was an extremely passive-aggressive way of taking her down a peg or two, or rather a reaction to my feeling very frustrated with the way she had treated W and her general attitude (she would say horrible things about their mum to my mum, with no evidence to support this, and W would always disagree with what she said).
Example - it upset me that one of W's friends never paid for her bridesmaid dress - she just flatly refused to pay for it when everyone else did. This friend at the time earnt more than W. W paid for the dress. That friend, to this day, has never paid her back. That annoyed me. W grumbled about it from time to time after our wedding, but I don't understand why she didn't ask her friend to just contribute a bit and then pay her back gradually.
Another example - there was a time back in 2013/14 when W thought she had fallen pregnant (an accident). Neither of us wanted kids and we knew we couldn't afford one. I remember going to work and then stopping by my parents' house on the way back home to check in on W. Thankfully W confirmed the pregnancy test was negative; we were both very pleased!
However, before she took the test, W rang me at my parents' and said, "my sister has said we can have all her baby things and the pram and they'll help us with clothes and everything." I was shocked. Inwardly I was very angry that her sister had been trying to "convince" W she was pregnant and was eager to be the person who saves the day, or whatever. For years she's always been saying "So, when are you having kids?" (She has three, her first at age 24).
Then when W and I separated this year and we met for a chat in June,I distinctly remember her saying "What would you say if I said I wanted to have a baby?". She would tell EVERYONE she never wanted kids, how she loved being an aunty and how she wanted 'her own time to herself', and then two weeks with her sister in May, and she suddenly wants a baby! I just didn't get it. This is a classic example of re-writing history I guess (am I right?).
Since W's siter moved to Scotland she has been trying to get us to move there, literally next door. Whenever we visited she would go online and point out houses for sale. "Look, this one is only £350,000. It's ten minutes away. Nice floorplan." She would spend literally an hour on her laptop showing us houses. And we were thinking, "Nope, we can't afford that!" Not to mention the fact that there are no jobs in the area. That didn't phase her sister. Also, in doing this her sister completely neglected the fact that my parents are really quite frail and in their late 60s/early 70s; no way would my dad drive 6 hours to visit us (it would take him more like 9hours with all the breaks they'd have to factor in to the journey). She just wanted us to live near her to look after her kids while she and her H went out.
Even W would complain, "Look sis, you always say 'Come up and see me for a week, it'll be lovely and we'll go shopping.' But then all you do is sleep and I am made to look after the kids for a few afternoons."
Also, when W and I had been dating for a few years, she would also warn me, "Look I want M before I turn 30! I don't want to be single at 30!" Again I think her sister had something to do with this. She was married at 23 and by 30 had 3 kids. Maybe she felt she hadn't yet 'achieved' the same as her sister and so was competing in a way. I don't know. When they were younger, W would always tell me how she and her sister would fight (not play fighting, actually physically fight) and how her sister would pin her down on the floor etc. Even W's mum has said to my mum that she keeps things close to her chest; and doesn't reveal everything to her own mum.
I then decided not to dwell on things too much. I watched a bit of comedy on TV and then went to sleep. Had a good sleep last night.
Just looking ahead for the next few days. Hoping to meet up with a few friends towards the end of the week; bit of overtime at work again; plus a gig on Monday to get a bit of a boost of cash just before New Year's Eve which will be nice.
It helps to understand the relationship dynamics that hurt your R and to learn how to handle those better for the future. Don't be afraid to get out of the trenches and fly around your situation and feel free.
Also, I wouldn't go messing around with the alarm if it is a 2 hour drive. If she questions why you won't just remind her that you are not hers so it's not worth the trouble.
How often is your W contacting you?
Hey Dan
Man I can feel how frustrating it must’ve been with sil constantly butting in. I think it’s deffo she got in your xws ear but of course you have no proof and of course you are to never mention or suggest it.
I’m fortunate at least in I never experienced that- quite the opposite actually
Cheers ds
Thanks guys.
I had to go to the house anyway today as had to pick up some mail - someone had posted the music for my gig next Monday to the house so I had to collect it.
W had not touched the presents from my parents and my sister; they were unopened so she obviously didn't go there before Monday. She is now coming back Sunday as she asked me to leave the paperwork to sign at the house. However she had already asked me to post it to her sister's, which I've done, as she originally told me she was going up for 2 weeks (!).
I sorted the alarm. I had unplugged the ethernet cable when I was there last. When I was leaving, I plugged it in and ran out of the house - I have about 10 seconds before the alarm would go off again, from sensing me moving about!!
Yes DS - SIL was constantly butting in! So frustrating. W never saw it like that though.
Ovrrn - my W is only contacting me when necessary, if she needs me to do something. Certainly no "how are you" texts anymore. No anger either. Very business-like between us really. I'm being very polite and non-argumentative so she cannot accuse me of saying anything untoward.
Got a text from W yesterday (Monday) morning, about 10am:
"Hi, I'm home now. Please say thank you to your sister and parents for the present. It is lovely and a very kind gesture. I haven't been very organised with cards and things this year. As you know there's an awful lot of pressure and stress at the moment. But I'm very touched your family would send me anything for Christmas."
I waited a long time to reply. I was geuinely busy - gig and gym. I replied 6 hours later:
"You're welcome. I can see how you would feel pressured/stressed and how that would make things difficult. I will say thanks to my parents when I get back tonight."
Slight validation in my response; I didn't tell her what I was up to which explained my delayed response (mysterious!); and remained polite.
No reply back from W - didn't expect one.
I think I did ok here.
Slightly nervous about the new year but also interested to see what I can achieve.
Hi Dan if it were me I would have just responded with ‘thanks will do’. Try to keep things shorter and reserve validation. What’s she stressed about anyway?
Yes don’t give details of what you’re doing. My standard reply if I really need to elaborate is I’m out and about
Cheers ds
Thanks DS.
I only thought of validating as I hadn't done it for a while to her. Yes, my thoughts exactly - what was she stressed about?
Also I thought it was weird that she mentioned there being 'pressure' - I wonder if that is a veiled message meaning that others have indeed pressured her into doing what she's chosen to do, or just that she was feeling pressure generally to get the D done quickly (?).
This would be scary for her, sorting out and arranging all this financial stuff when she would have previously relied on me to sort this all out, e.g. if we were selling the house together and moving somewhere else.
I have been practising empathy with people generally. I saw an acquaintance the the gig yesterday and he was telling me about the PhD he is doing and how difficult it was. Completely different scenario of course, but I think I listened and empathised well with what they were saying. The conversation was longer as a result so that must have meant I did something right.
Yeah with you on being coy about giving details of what I'm doing. I don't tell her what I'm doing now. Previously I would have explained why I took so long to reply etc.
Happy New Year to all.
Thanks to everybody who has commented on my six (currently) threads. I really appreciate all the advice and 2x4s!
Was sad to not have W nearby at midnight to welcome in the year together. We had such a lovely start to 2019. We had lots of plans.
I do miss her, but rest assured I'm not sitting in a dark room feeling sorry for myself. I've been getting out, exercising, looking after myself (never felt better about how I look), saving money, new clothes, new shoes, sorting my career plans out etc.
There will come a time soon when I will need to see W - this will be to go through final bits at the house, e.g. bedding, stuff in the kitchen. Too many things to remember off the tops of our heads to sort out in an email, so probably best to do it in person. The house is not technically fully sold yet - still going through the conveyancers etc. Lots of paperwork; sign this, email this, confirm this etc.
Maybe the house will no longer be ours at some point this month. Not sure, hard to tell.
Any advice for when we need to meet up. I haven't seen W in over 3 months. I'm thinking wear my best clothes (well, not a suit but you know what I mean), haircut, smell good, project confidence etc. That sufficient?
Interesting texts from W today:
"Hi, I need my tax returns for the last few years. How can I get my log in details from the tax website?"
I waited an hour then replied how she can get it (go on the website and ask for reminder!).
Few mins later:
"Thanks, got it now. I'm confused as to how much my net profit it - is it really that low? Trying to get a mortgage and I think I'm totally screwed."
I want to say:
"Well, this is what splitting up does! I'm in the same boat, thanks to your decision to throw everything away and put us both in financial uncertainty, and refuse to put any effort in sorting out our M."
***You'll all be pleased to know that I have NOT sent this reply!***
'How to shoot yourself in the foot several times in one text' by DaB35 - "out now in all good bookshops!"
Of course it's very tempting to fantasise about W sitting alone in her brother's house thinking, "What have I done? I can't do this. Maybe I've over-reacted? Maybe we should talk. The house sale isn't final yet. Maybe MC is an option..." I'm working very hard at not dwelling on this, and just keeping up my PMA and confidence.
I need to explain to her that it's not just a case of sales less costs; there are further expenses that can be deducted.
[For the Non-UK people here, there are other things a self-employed person can claim to reduce their tax bill depending on what kinds of costs they are as long as they're related to their business. I won't go into it here, but that's the basic gist of it.]
The plan usually is to claim as much as possible most years. Our mortgage was originally due for renewal in 2021, so for the last two years or so before that we'd have not claimed certain expenses in order to keep our profits high. We're both employed too, so that would have helped our case to get a better deal, especially as I'm due a pay rise soon this year.
Now of course, the house is being sold and so we'll have no mortgage between us soon.
Makes it VERY hard to get somewhere by yourself now, house prices being so high in the UK at the mo.
Should I just say:
"[short explanation of the figures]. Sounds like you're feeling very anxious about living alone; I can see why you'd feel like that."
Bit of advice needed before I reply back to her please!
In other news - got a 'well done' email from the gym. I broke a personal record on New Year's Eve when I went for a work out session. Now up to 70kg on leg press, 17.5kg on shoulder press, 40kg on chest press and 52.5kg on the abs/crunch machine. Definitely seeing a faint six-pack now! Also my arms look a lot better. I've never had a better opinion of how I look until recently.
Hey Dan
I’d just say ‘sorry to hear about your mortgage troubles. I hope it works out for you.’. On second thought I’d probably say nothing. She’s not asking you a question. Do you see how she’s kind of cake eating by tapping into your knowledge and expertise all the time? Your call anyway buddy.
Bravo on the gym achievement! That’s fantastic! Aim for higher on the chest press mate. Your shoulders and pecs will grow. How tall and what weight are you Dan? I’m 6’2 90kg and on 72kg chest press and have maxed my machine. I’m not familiar with the other exercises as my machine doesn’t seem to have them. Nice work with the abs mate I’m jealous!
Hi DS
I was thinking I might respond as she has asked 'is my profit that low?'. Perhaps I'll keep it very brief.
"It's [x] minus [y] but also you add in [z], so it's not just a simple case of sales less costs. Sorry to hear you're feeling anxious about getting a mortgage."
I hadn't thought of it as cake eating. Good point. l would always advise her on tax stuff (it is my main job after all!). I'd even advise other members of her family - think they'll miss that.
I'm about 6ft and weigh 70kg. The chest press machine at my gym goes up to something stupid like 90kg or even 100kg, so I have a way to go before maxing that out! Yeah I need to gradually up the chest/shoulders. I'm going to try 20kg on shoulders tonight and maybe 42.5kg on the chest. I've been going for same number of reps but slightly increased weight.
"Thanks, got it now. I'm confused as to how much my net profit it - is it really that low? Trying to get a mortgage and I think I'm totally screwed."
I want to say:
"Well, this is what splitting up does! I'm in the same boat, thanks to your decision to throw everything away and put us both in financial uncertainty, and refuse to put any effort in sorting out our M."
***You'll all be pleased to know that I have NOT sent this reply!***
'How to shoot yourself in the foot several times in one text' by DaB35 - "out now in all good bookshops!"
Ha! Yes it's good that you are squelching that kind of stuff.
Of course it's very tempting to fantasise about W sitting alone in her brother's house thinking, "What have I done? I can't do this. Maybe I've over-reacted? Maybe we should talk. The house sale isn't final yet. Maybe MC is an option..." I'm working very hard at not dwelling on this, and just keeping up my PMA and confidence.
Rest assured she's thinking none of those things. How do I know? Because she would be heavily temp checking you if she did.
I need to explain to her that it's not just a case of sales less costs; there are further expenses that can be deducted.
That's your NGS talking. You don't NEED to do ANYTHING. Quit rescuing her! That's a personal issue. Remember, business only. If it's something to do with the house or the D then provide what she asks for, but this kind of stuff, I would do as DS said and not reply at all.
Should I just say:
"[short explanation of the figures]. Sounds like you're feeling very anxious about living alone; I can see why you'd feel like that."
Definitely not the last part, I know you're trying to validate but that's comes off sounding a bit like pursuit.
I broke a personal record on New Year's Eve when I went for a work out session. Now up to 70kg on leg press, 17.5kg on shoulder press, 40kg on chest press and 52.5kg on the abs/crunch machine. Definitely seeing a faint six-pack now! Also my arms look a lot better. I've never had a better opinion of how I look until recently.
Awesome, keep it up!
Thanks AS.
I just explained the figures, and left it at that without validating. Two sentences.
Had another email from the solicitor re house sale. Lots of "Can you provide a copy of [x] paperwork" and "Can you confirm [abc]."
Shall I do this? Or forward it on to W and inform her? Or just go back to the L and tell them "ask W"?
Thing is, she won't have a clue where to look in the house for any of the paperwork. I have left what I can on a desk in the study though - should I let her know that?
No contact from W today. Surprised as I thought she would chase me for more info, or ask for more help on things.
Been thinking about things I could strive to achieve in 2020. Certainly got a few personal goals like increasing my weight limits at the gym, writing some more, earn more money from gigs, pass at least 2 exams etc. I certainly will be kept busy that's for sure!
I'm sad that W won't see me achieve these things, but I'm sure she will get to hear about them.
On reflection, I really fought for my M. I still want to. I went to IC, and have done the work required. W is still in the hardened heart phase and is keeping distant. I know she is feeling stressed, especially about getting a place of her own. I can't help her though - this is what she wanted so she has to make do.
Funny thing is, she said "The easy thing for me to do is to walk away!" It's actually proving very tricky for her. If she wanted to R and work things out, we'd still have a house, at least for the time being.
Shall I do this? Or forward it on to W and inform her? Or just go back to the L and tell them "ask W"?
Thing is, she won't have a clue where to look in the house for any of the paperwork. I have left what I can on a desk in the study though - should I let her know that?
It seems your W is pretty determined to see this through so there's not a lot you can do to prevent that. If what they are asking isn't a huge inconvenience then just go ahead and take care of it.
Been thinking about things I could strive to achieve in 2020. Certainly got a few personal goals like increasing my weight limits at the gym, writing some more, earn more money from gigs, pass at least 2 exams etc. I certainly will be kept busy that's for sure!
I'm sad that W won't see me achieve these things, but I'm sure she will get to hear about them.
It's OK to have sad thoughts, it's normal. Just keep doing what you're doing and remember that you don't know what the future holds. Somewhere down the line she may very well want to recon. Hope is yours for as long as you want it.
On reflection, I really fought for my M. I still want to.
And you are. One of Michele's peers refers to it as being like ju jitsu. In ju jitsu you "fight" by going along with your partner's moves. If they move you don't counter-move, you move along with them and use their own movement to leverage your position. This is exactly what DB'ing is all about.
I went to IC, and have done the work required. W is still in the hardened heart phase and is keeping distant. I know she is feeling stressed, especially about getting a place of her own. I can't help her though - this is what she wanted so she has to make do.
Yes you have grown and recovered and are building yourself into someone stronger and more self-sufficient. She needs to do the same but she hasn't even begun yet.
It seems your W is pretty determined to see this through so there's not a lot you can do to prevent that. If what they are asking isn't a huge inconvenience then just go ahead and take care of it.
I agree. I'll just do the simple stuff where I can or have access to that information.
It's OK to have sad thoughts, it's normal. Just keep doing what you're doing and remember that you don't know what the future holds. Somewhere down the line she may very well want to recon. Hope is yours for as long as you want it.
That is a really nice way of looking at the situation - thanks. I will keep hope, but also continue to GAL for myself as I have been doing.
One of Michele's peers refers to it as being like ju jitsu. In ju jitsu you "fight" by going along with your partner's moves. If they move you don't counter-move, you move along with them and use their own movement to leverage your position. This is exactly what DB'ing is all about.
Great interpretation here AS. I feel I have been DBing well, especially more recently. I'll keep at it!
Yes you have grown and recovered and are building yourself into someone stronger and more self-sufficient. She needs to do the same but she hasn't even begun yet.
Thanks, that means a lot. Self-sufficient is right. Certainly not being as 'timid' as I used to be. And she absolutely hasn't begun. She just thinks havign a few chats with her sister and friends will solve everything. She hasn't done much sorting out I don't think; definitely not DBing to the extent I have been. She will see the stronger improved me, and I will be very happy to be that person naturally without 'faking it' for her benefit only. It's for my benefit primarily.
DaB,
wanted to say congrats on this:
In other news - got a 'well done' email from the gym. I broke a personal record on New Year's Eve when I went for a work out session. Now up to 70kg on leg press, 17.5kg on shoulder press, 40kg on chest press and 52.5kg on the abs/crunch machine. Definitely seeing a faint six-pack now! Also my arms look a lot better. I've never had a better opinion of how I look until recently.
That email in regards to the house sale is tricky. I ignored all the calls, voicemails, and emails in regards to our house sale. When BD happened for me, it took many months but I decided not to move. The difference is that I could have easily purchased our home. The similarity is that I wanted to delay the sale to keep ties between W and I.
If you guys are splitting the bills, I would stop communicating with the solicitor and allow your W to do that work. If she is not willing to lead to sell the house that is her problem. She puts you in this precarious position of advancing things that you do not want, because she cannot handle it? No, I think she is unwilling to learn. She can handle it if she wants to, right? Your W already knows this too.
Thanks Ovrrnbw - was certainly a nice boost during the week!
I know what you mean. Part of me wants to 'stall' somewhat; not quite sure why. I haven't been chased by W for any of this.
I am in a bit of a quandary about this. Essentially, I know what to ask the Ls re the house sale. W doesn't. I'm doing my utmost to not help too much but it is tricky when it's a jointly-owned house and we both need to look at and approve various forms.
I am happy to do the physical signing of stuff that genuinely needs my signature or uploading personal docs like ID, but I don't like being made to do the actual nitty-gritty of the sale when the L asks for certain docs that, well, neither of us can immediately recognise. I have since today located them in an email from 3 years ago when we bought the house. Do I just forward them to W to pass on, or send them straight to L myself?
The L appears to be just emailing me on paperwork issues (I can only imagine W told them to contact me).
Frustrating, yes, but it's not detrimental to my PMA I can assure you!
Hey Dan,
If your L is asking you for docs you dont recognise, then ask them for a generic sample so you can. Why arent they organising the docs themselves? I assume these are title or mortgage documents? Surely the UK has a online database where all these docs have been converted electroically and are available if you subscribe?
Why not just ask them to send you an Authority you can sign so they can retireve on your behalf if there is no database?
With the docs you found, I'd just send straight to the L and cc the XW.
Cheers DS
Update - well, there's not much of a massive update!
Some annoying emails from L re house sale. Our house is a "newbuild" so there are some extra forms that we need to send over. Got them from the old Ls from when we bought the house, so I'm assuming it's ok for me to just forward them on to the L (?). Didn't realise selling a house was this involved! Oh well, it's all experience!
DS - it's not like that here in UK. I can ask the local authority for the building regs certificate, which is the only thing missing it seems.
Gym wise I'm now up to:
55kg on the abs/crunch at 2x15
70kg on leg press at 3x12
20kg on shoulder press at 3x12
42.5kg on chest press at 3x12
40kg on lats machine at 3x12
42.5kg on low row at 3x12
Plus small increases every so often on the various cable machines (arms)
Definitely seeing improvements on arms and stomach. I have no reference, as bear in mind before September I did very minimal exercise. I did the odd bits of kettle bells at home, but nothing regular and wasn't fully committed to it. I've been going to the gym every day for the past fortnight - it's very close to my parents' house so I have no excuse really!
I'm watching what I eat too and monitoring protein intake as well to help. Lots more healthy snacks in my lunchbox at work now! My diet was fairly healthy already, but just improving and adding even more good stuff wherever I can.
Very minimal contact from W. Haven't heard from her since she texted me on 3rd to ask me to pass on her thanks to my parents/my sister for their presents to her. No update on the D proceedings either. I wonder how she's getting with her new house hunting - see seems to not be in a good position financially (I would say' Told you so' but as you see from a few posts above, I didn't!). I'm not pushing anything. I'm not reaching out.
I still feel sad occasionally as I find myself frustrated at the fact that she ran away from the M and didn't even want to put effort in to try. It saddens me as there were so many things I was looking forward to doing with her. It seems like such a waste. I'm annoyed that she felt the need to tell so many people, rather than confide in just one person and then me and then we resolved to try before deciding on whether D is an option.
Does it matter that I've not made any effort to contact W's parents/friends? I'm going to keep it that way - is that right?
Hey Dan great job on the gal front. Love the progress with the gym!
With her parents and friends how close were you? Have they reached out themselves? I’d lay low with these people
Hi DS
I was close with them. Absolutely no problems with them. Her parents were very fond of me. Also her brother; I got on extremely well with him and his wife - we had very similar senses of humour and liked the same things. Her friends were quite different to her and I, although we got on and had a laugh. Nobody has reached out to me at all.
Ha - having said I've had no contact from W for a while, I get a text at 8am today:
"Hiya, have you heard anything more from the financial Ls for the court order thing? Hope you've been having a good 2020 so far."
Essentially, it's a rather pointless text. I filled in my bits of the finance form, then sent it to her. She sent it to the financial Ls. As my email was on the form, I just got a confirmation saying "Thanks, we've got your form, we'll add it to the pile and look at it within 31 days." The form says it takes 31 days to be looked at, and she sent it in December, so the 31 days haven't run their course. Strange to also end it with a nice sentiment too. And to send it at 8am, on a Saturday.
Does this count as temp checking? I don't think it is.
I replied to her text with:
"Hi, no haven't heard anything. It can take 30 days. I'm really good thanks - very busy. Have a great weekend."
I responded 12 hours later. I really was genuinely busy, and didn't have time to text her back! She didn't respond after I'd replied.
Think that is ok. Polite, answers the question, positive and a decisive sign off.
Hey Dan
If they haven't reached out, I personally would avoid contacting them first. You have no kids so that makes it easier
In my sitch, in contrast, my MIL contacted me a few months after BD right after she found out what happened from my XW as she was floored by it and was told untruths about why XW left me. My SIL caught up with me at the shops and we talked about it and she offered me her support. We keep in touch, and I visit MIL with S every few months.
Remember the principles here to keep DB with her friends and family if they do contact you, ok.
Just with the sms, remember to keep it brief and businesslike and just answer the Q, nothing more ie " Hi XW, I havent heard from them either. Regards Dan" That's all you need mate.
Cheers, DS