Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: phnix Living in Limbo - 11/25/19 05:51 PM
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2869247&page=12

"Vapo" I am going to read up on respect and boundaries. Robxs post has over 300 post. Can you guys be specific about what to look for in his post. I guess I will begin with his story.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Living in Limbo - 11/25/19 06:09 PM
I'm going to paint what is hopefully a clearer picture. I saw you in pain, bballer1, and see that you aren't throwing in the towel yet and you want to save this.

Your W sees this too, plus she sees your pursuit, your R talks, sees that you are around her still. I think she sees you as still on the hook. The OM is clearly still on the hook. She is thinking emotionally, not logically. Right now she has two worlds going on and is getting what she wants from both of those, regardless of who she hurts to get them. Your pain is stopping you from making clear, thoughtful decsions. That's why you need to detach.

I see it as a major positive that your W doesn't want to divorce as well as y'alls religious background and small town life. Now, it's time for her to see your back walking away from her and wonder if that is really what she wants. Your kids are old enough, I think you should not be home when she is. Don't put yourself in a position to have a convo with her about anything. I mean really, what do you NEED to talk to her about? Get out of the house in the evening too, let her wonder what you're up to. Be a man of action and quit being so wordy and needy with her. Quit rehashing all the BS she has put you through. Let her see this happen and her tune may change. Or maybe she realizes she wants a divorce after all. I don't think you can keep going the way you have been. Time for a change my friend!

Please think about updating your signature to reflect your sitch too!
Posted By: hoosjim Re: Living in Limbo - 11/25/19 06:12 PM
bballer, my thoughts on your sitch, in DB-ing terms, is that you are clearly in "Last Resort Technique" territory, if not, "Beyond the Last Resort Technique." (Go back and review these parts of the DB books if you havent already)

Your W is still clearly wayward... very wayward. She is still in contact with OM, still "cake-eating", and still keeping you on the hook as "plan b". You need to go completely "dark" with her and completely "drop the rope" while at the same time putting some real effort into your own self-improvement and GAL... becoming AMOAFWL. Forget her for the time being... she is still embroiled in her affair and with her head in the clouds. You may not be able to legally force her out of the house, but you can sure as hell put her belongings out of the MBR, put a lock on that door, and, for the most part, act as if she doesn't exist except for strictly and minimally-necessary communications concerning child-rearing (and possibly finances, if it legitimately involves joint finances--- which you should be actively minimizing and closing out anyway as long as she is maintaining affair with OM and not moving towards work/reconcilliation on your MR).

You can also stop being her sounding board and shoulder to cry on. She got herself into this mess, and it is wildly disrespectful of you to try to discuss her relationship with OM and how hard things are on her because of that etc etc. You need to shut that crap down pronto (calmly, and confidently, but pronto) when she brings it up.

If she is intent on remaining in the house despite your cold shoulder (and you dont need to be and in fact shouldn't be openly hostile, here, even as you should be calmly stoic-- as if you dont care-- towards her) then that is her problem, but she should be on her own and you shouldn't' be doing anything to make her feel comfortable in the marital home or make her stay there easier. Maybe she sticks around and starts to feel the sting of loss, particularly if you GAL and self-improve like mad... but it is really hard to pull off a productive "in-house" separation. Much better off if she leaves, and, at some point, you really might have to put the house on the market if you decide you've had enough... but abandoning it to her and retreating is probably not a great idea.

overnbww:

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I see it as a major positive that your W doesn't want to divorce as well as y'alls religious background and small town life. Now, it's time for her to see your back walking away from her and wonder if that is really what she wants. Your kids are old enough, I think you should not be home when she is. Don't put yourself in a position to have a convo with her about anything. I mean really, what do you NEED to talk to her about? Get out of the house in the evening too, let her wonder what you're up to. Be a man of action and quit being so wordy and needy with her. Quit rehashing all the BS she has put you through. Let her see this happen and her tune may change. Or maybe she realizes she wants a divorce after all. I don't think you can keep going the way you have been. Time for a change my friend!


This is all great advice from Overnbw. You can still remain "in" and "in control of" the house, while creating distance/separation. Get out... without letting her know where you are going. Do fun things, without telling her. Let her see you come back with a smile on your face, whistling to yourself... and if she asks where you've been, be vague, noncommital: "I was out". I agree with overnbww that there are faint, promising signs, there, somewhat similar to some of the dynamics that were at play in my own sitch, but you are not yet, nor even anywhere close, to where i was when things turned with my W. You need to create separation from her. You need to GAL for yourself... to make yourself feel better and get yourself in a better place. Try new things, meet new people, reconnect with friends... and get out away from the house, even go to the library if you have to (but don't tell her what you're doing), but for yourself and your own piece of mind. Do things to improve your appearance (we all have room to improve here). There needs to be some space created, so both of you can get right in your own heads, and also, ultimately, so she can feel the sting of loss (if she is in fact to feel it), which sting will only be all the more intense if you have truly (and not just to impress her) been doing a bang-up job of GAL and 180-ing and becoming the absolute best bballer you can be.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Living in Limbo - 11/25/19 06:29 PM
I typed this response in your last thread, when I tried to submit it it didn't go through because the thread had been locked. Ovr and Jim just echoed some of the same sentiments, but at the risk of being redundant here it is:

Originally Posted by bballer1
I simply said I would give her 2 weeks to find somewhere to live. Then I would move back into the house


But BB, this is still a completely ineffective boundary. You move back in 2 weeks... and there she is. Then what? Then you look impotent. It could be even worse than that, she could change the locks. Then you try to force yourself back in and she calls the police and explains that you voluntarily moved out and now you're trying to force yourself back in. I've seen it happen before! Look, she has zero respect for you. No woman who respects her husband would engage in an affair, much less parade it around in his face all the time. You can huff and puff and make demands and whatever but she will do NOTHING you ask. Why? Because you asked, and she is a wayward. She is like a rebellious teen, you tell her to do something then she will not do it even if it's what she WANTS, because her desire to rebel against you outweighs her desire to do what is right or even what she wants. What you are doing is akin to negotiating with a terrorist. You're following rules of decorum and respect that mean absolutely nothing to her. So what do you do? Well you have to make a hard choice. The way I see it there are really only two options:

1. You stay at home and accept status quo. This isn't a good option because you'll likely never get her respect back. She will continue to be wayward until she figures out a way to ride into the sunset with OM. Or things with OM will blow up and she'll pursue OM2, 3, 4, etc.

2. You tell her to leave or you will file for D yourself, and if she doesn't leave, then you file for D and force her out of the house (it sounds like you can afford to stay in it and she can't, so legally this shouldn't be tough to do). As painful as this sounds, this is an enforceable boundary and this will command respect.

Option 2 is quite clearly not the DB'ing approach Michele describes in her books. But option 2 gets you out of this mess, gets you some respect back, helps your W to learn to miss you and teaches your sons that sometimes being a man means standing up for yourself and not letting others treat you like a doormat, not even your own wife.

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We would be separating to get space and see what living apart would be like. Now that you say it like that I probably need to tell her only a week.


She is going to love being away from you at first, especially if she gets to stay in the family home. They always enjoy their new "single" life for a while. So if you're thinking separation will "teach her a lesson" then you're wrong.

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I'm sorry guys but I can't continue to live with this lie. Its been 5 months and everyday I see her it makes it just as hard to move on or let go. I think I need separation to heal or I may lose my sanity, harm the OM (seriously), or worse lose my job from lack of focus and being on top of things.


And then...

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I guess I am going to just wait this thing out and hope for the best.


You're flipping around a lot. Take some time to decide what you want, and to figure out a game plan on how to get there. Keep in mind that staying put means continuing to live in this exact same situation indefinitely with little or no change.

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She gets emotional thinking about it but she is lost and not the same woman I first married. She stated last night that she was a bad person and didn't deserve anyone. I guess that was the guilt talking because she knows she is messaging him all day while at school.


Yes they do feel guilt over their actions but they still feel their actions are justified. They feel like a lack of love in the marriage "forced" them to do the things they do. It's not true of course, but that's how they justify what they're doing.

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She clearly stated today that she doesn’t want to stop talking to him.


Quit asking, quit discussing it with her, quit being her BFF. Even if you're going to live under the same roof this has got to stop. Please don't fall under the illusion that you can "Fireproof" her back, you can't. She's too far gone for that. Time and space is your only option at this point. You can't "nice" her back, you can't "mean" her back, you can't negotiate her back, and unfortunately you can't "pray" her back because she has the free will to do what she wants, even if it's evil. So even if you choose option 1 you've got to fully detach from her and treat her like a toxic roommate that you don't want to have anything to do with but are forced to cohabitate with for now.
Posted By: Vapo Re: Living in Limbo - 11/26/19 07:33 AM
Please listen to AS, and re-read his reply at least twice more. A lot of gold in his reply, a huge lot. You should consider yourself lucky to have him in your corner. Listen to his advice.

You are entering probably the hardest part of your journey, the initial shock is wearing off and the brunt of the situation is pressing down on you. You are desperately trying to find that silver bullet that one thing that will turn your situation around. You got to calm yourself down, embrace the hurt and start moving forward on your own. You got to better yourself, rebuild bballer1 into bballer at least 2.0.

The more time you spend wallowing in your own despair, the longer your journey will take...
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/02/19 05:32 PM
Thanksgiving went well. I have been getting out and playing golf and spending a lot of time with my son. She has been distant and not really bothered with me being gone. She kind of likes it when I am not around. She claims it is the way it has always been with me being gone.

I am going to continue to detach and GAL. She claims she will give me a decision about the marriage in January so all I can do is work on myself and move forward until then. I would guess that when January rolls around she will not have a decision.

I suspect she is still communicating with the OM only because she acts suspicious some of the time. Like Friday night before we left the house she came out to check and see if we had actually left. I had to wait 10 minutes on my son to find his shoes under the carport. LOL! She made the statement about us not leaving right away and she had her laptop in her hand.

I know this will be a long journey and I am thankful for all the support I have on here.
Posted By: hoosjim Re: Living in Limbo - 12/02/19 07:14 PM
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She claims she will give me a decision about the marriage in January so all I can do is work on myself and move forward until then. I would guess that when January rolls around she will not have a decision.


Amping up your GAL is a GREAT idea, but the above ^^^ is BS. She is either married to you or she isn't... and if she is "trying to decide" between you and another man, then she ISN'T (married, that is)... what she IS, is wayward, and she has rejected both you and marriage. A marriage is a relationship between two people, not three. I think one of your first boundaries has to be "I wont live in an open marriage" or "I wont share my wife with another man". How you enforce that boundary is up to you., but this keeping you on the hook until January while "she makes up her mind" is CRAP. C'mon man, take back your huevos... YOU should be setting the tone for this process, at least insofar as it concerns you and the family-- and when she is playing footsie, even if it is just virtual footsie, with OM, in your house, where your children live, it DEFINITELY concerns you.

So get out, GAL, be the best Bballer you can be, etc, and, of course, be "detached" but don't continue to take this kind of disrespectfulcrap from her. And waiting eagerly for her to pick you over OM while she continues to contact him, etc... is crap. You're not going to earn her respect that way and if you don't have her respect there is ZERO chance for your MR in the future.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/02/19 07:31 PM
B,

I agree! Is she going to go on Maury Povich and reveal it and the audience goes crazy?

I’ll repeat my new mantra “ being a doormat doesn’t work, placating doesn’t work, showing strength doesn’t work but it gets respect”.
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/02/19 07:40 PM
BB,

I remember my W doing the same thing. She couldn't wait for me to leave the house. At first, I really think she enjoyed it, but every time I left, I left where I was going vague, and I left her seeing me smile, and I was dressed to impress and smelling good. She really acted like she couldn't care less at first. But one day she started asking where I was going and with who. And I would say, "I'm going to enjoy myself". And she would give some snide remark, "well I hope you do". I was never mean, rude, or nasty. I was confident in my answers.

I think from the time I started going out, by myself (GAL and Detaching) until she started asking questions was about a month (just giving me time for reference). One day I was searching about a year after recon, and I noticed my W was checking my number on online databases. She never told me, but while I was GAL she was wondering what I was doing. She was still talking to the OM at the time of her searches.

It takes time and patience. I could see the cracks starting to form, her wording started to change from, I'm done, too, I'm don't know what I want, too, using us and placing us both in activities together in the future. Before I started GAL and detach, she could see herself doing anything with me.

I also, remember I came home early one day and she wasn't ready, I walk upstairs and she was sitting on the couch with her laptop open, and it looked so strange. I checked it a few days later and she was on with the OM, she didn't erase her message, so basically told him, "oh he's here, I got to go".

Thru all that, I never gave him any energy in my life. I stop talking about him, I only started talking about me and my boys. I stop asking her. I was cool. I never asking open ended questions to her.

Instead of, "How was your morning?", I would say, just "good morning".
Same for, night time.

I would always start my comments off to her with what I wanted and needed and then ask if that collided with her plans or interrupted her day.

Example: I have plans this weekend on Saturday. Do you have plans on Saturday? If she said no. I would say, ok. If she said Yes, I would say what about Sunday?......

In Summary: I started to allow myself to love myself and respect myself, that allowed me to distance myself from my WW disrespectful behavior and actions. You have to be patient and understand that consistence is the key. It takes time and you WW has to feel/know she's losing you. It has to be real and not and act on your part, and put in the hardwork learn around here.

Onward and forward.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/02/19 11:11 PM
Thanks "JJ" for some of your experience. I am slowly coming to grips and hoping to break this cycle I have been in for the past 4 months. Begging, needing an answer, demanding she stop talking to him, and many other attempts at spying etc..... One thing that is really hard to refuse for me is those chances to be intimate. We have been intimate atleast once a week in all of this and I know I have got to stop doing this with her.

In time I have realized that each day a part of me moves further away. I don't worry as much nor do I think about her all day. Having a wife that is considered a "trophy wife" has made this even more difficult on my self-esteem. I will grow from this and become a better person. Only way forward is upward.
Posted By: Tryhard Re: Living in Limbo - 12/02/19 11:18 PM
How ingrained have you got Sandi’s rules in your head ? Get it so it is natural, get the validation and GAL attitude down and your can turn things around. You have to be the strongest when you are feeling the weakest. You can do it
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/02/19 11:54 PM
"TH", I've got to figure out how to put these quotes on here so I respond specifically to them. I have printed out Sandi's rules and have followed them but have always been in a cycle of going back to being affectionate with her. The thing is as long as I don't pressure her with R talk then she behaves very nicely. She is funny, we laugh together, she laughs at me, we laugh at each others snap chats etc.......... It would be so much easier to move on from her if she wasn't so nice. She is only mean when I am mean to her, making her feel shamed, or when she feels like I am manipulating her to make a choice. I know I have got to get out of that cycle. I did really well for two weeks and she was back in the master bedroom begging me to hold her because she claimed she misses me. Whatever that meant? I gave in to her wishes.

I do know one thing however about my wife. She does not like to be told what to do ever. If I can truly detach, meaning let her go, she will eventually run from this guy because he will put pressure on her to make a move. If she were to file for divorce or move out that would shock me. (But this whole situation is a shock to everyone that knows her) She truly wants me to do it but she can't be mean enough to make me do it. I have literally begged her to file and move out. she has done neither.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/02/19 11:59 PM
B,

Man oh man you just don't get it. She is testing your strength and you fail every time. You have to show her you are not a doormat and she can't come running to you when she feels sorry for herself.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 12:10 AM
Originally Posted by bballer1
"TH", I've got to figure out how to put these quotes on here so I respond specifically to them.
There should be three buttons on each post:

Reply,Quote,Report


if not
Put this last:

[/quote]

And this first:

[quote=bballer1]
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 12:19 AM
Originally Posted by LH19
B,

Man oh man you just don't get it. She is testing your strength and you fail every time. You have to show her you are not a doormat and she can't come running to you when she feels sorry for herself.


I know "LH", my past from rejection and going through two divorces as a child has really weakened me. One thing is certain however, I found a way to come out on top. I played college basketball, got my degree and was the first in my family, have two great sons, and I will eventually come out on top. Going to take time.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 12:25 AM
B I know it's hard. Start small. "Under the current circumstances it's best I don't console you right now".
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 02:36 PM
Ok guys, I sent her back out of the MB last night. I was calm and nice in asking her to move out. I told her I could not have a relationship with her until she was no longer involved with the OM and she was no longer communicating with him. I also stated I do not agree with living in an open relationship and that is what we have had for the past year.

I know this cycle of going back and forth has got to stop. I've got to mean it this time and respond with action from here on out. She didn't want to leave at first and asked if we could take turns sleeping in the other room. I calmly stated it was her actions that she cheated and continues to lie so it should be her to leave. She calmly walked out after that and went to the other room.

This morning I left the house before she got up and did not speak. This will be hard but I know its best for me to gain back my dignity and self worth. I can not control her and her actions. She has continually kept communications open with this guy. I have got to mourn the loss of this relationship and move forward.
Posted By: neffer Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 03:01 PM
Action, not words BB. You need to be consistent.

No fear BB
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by bballer1
Ok guys, I sent her back out of the MB last night. I was calm and nice in asking her to move out. I told her I could not have a relationship with her until she was no longer involved with the OM and she was no longer communicating with him. I also stated I do not agree with living in an open relationship and that is what we have had for the past year.


Try not to turn everything into an R talk. You should have just said "get out" and when she said "why" say "you know why". Because she does.

Also get ready because she will turn defiant and move back into the bed before long. So be prepared to address that.

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She didn't want to leave at first and asked if we could take turns sleeping in the other room. I calmly stated it was her actions that she cheated and continues to lie so it should be her to leave.


A simple "no" would have had more impact on her.

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I have got to mourn the loss of this relationship and move forward.


Yes, and the loss of your W because she is not who you married. Maybe she will be again some day, but for now she's a full-blown GGW wayward.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 05:22 PM
"AS", I am going to try to take your advice from now on moving forward. I've got a lot going on and I will have basketball games every Tuesday, Friday, and Saturday until the end of January. Detaching will be easy! Thanks for all your help. You know my story and I have been on here telling it for the past 3 months.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by bballer1
"AS", I am going to try to take your advice from now on moving forward. I've got a lot going on and I will have basketball games every Tuesday, Friday, and Saturday until the end of January. Detaching will be easy! Thanks for all your help. You know my story and I have been on here telling it for the past 3 months.


Awesome, sounds like a nice distraction! Yes I've read since the beginning, and I can't say enough how badly I feel for you and what you are going through. What I went through was "BD Lite" compared to you, and it was horrible enough. Your W just blows my mind, I've certainly seen my share of waywards but she is at the tippy top of the WW bell curve! I really think "tough love" is your only chance at saving yourself from further heartache, and the only chance to get through to her.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 08:23 PM
"AS", It looks like you have been around here since 2012. I know you have seen it all and hear it all. It is very unfortunate that I know all that I know. Most of my family thinks I will never be able to fully forgive her due to knowing all the details. Probably having sex in our own bed may be the worse or texting him while I was rubbing her foot countless times could be another one. Everyone wants to think their situation is unique and I guess I am one of those guys too.

I do have enough logic to realize that getting over this and forgiving will be very hard to do. Being fearful and afraid holds you back and keeps you stuck.

What I can't understand is why she hasn't moved out or filed for divorce herself. I may not ever know those answers. I really think that the exposure and the OM being removed as her boss played some part in her prolonging her decision to leave. Whatever may happen its not up to me but her. I do know that I need to let her go.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 08:29 PM
B,

Why would she possibly want to leave the best of both worlds? I mean she has it made right now. She has OM and you eating out of the palm of her hands.

I feel for you I really do but at some point you have to stand up for yourself. The great thing about it is it’s your best chance.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 09:03 PM
I really need to split our checking account and the bills. Wouldn’t hurt also to get one of my friends who is a realtor to look at my home to tell me what price to sell. I mentioned last night we would need to do Christmas separately and I need to stay away from her parents. Her parents are very supportive of me but they continue to advise me to wait this out.
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 09:17 PM
BB,

Originally Posted by bballer1
" Whatever may happen its not up to me but her.


You keep saying the above!!!! It's has become part of your mantra. This statement shows you are in wait mode. GET OUT OF WAIT MODE!!! Your future is not up to her. Her staying in the Marriage is her choice. But making the Marriage work is YA'LL choice.

Stop sitting around waiting for her to make her decision. The feeling you had as well. Every situation is unique.

But trust me, no matter how bad you think your situation is, there is some others that is worst. There have been some crazy stories that has passed thru here. Since I have been here since Aug of 2017, there have been WW:

Leaving there LBS to move to other countries and getting pregnant.
WWs getting hook on drugs
WWs moving other men into their Marital homes
A WW died
and so on and so on.

I have seen all kind of crazy pictures of my W and the OM. Read all kind of text. Things that were so hard to purge out of my brain it paralyzed me.

We understand your pain and story.

Forgiveness:

There have also been many LBS there have forgiven their Spouses for all kind of craziness they caused in their lives. Don't worry about what your family is saying. Forgiveness will come later, you need to be worried about healing, detaching and GAL. When and If the times come, you will have to forgive your W everyday, it's not a one time, one day thing. Forgiveness is the process of, giving up the ability to change the past.

IMO, you are in a prime process to get your WW back. I think she is confused and lost. And she's definitely sitting on the fence. But her time on the fence is coming to an end. You are getting tired of being in limbo and you are growing. Last night was a great start.

Onward and forward
Posted By: BenB Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 09:23 PM
Sorry for hijacking but which ww died and what happened?? Or which member was it so I can search?
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 09:31 PM
BenB,

I will have to go back and find the thread. I can't think of the the poster name. I provided that information to let BB know that his situation is bad, but it can always be worst. Find the positive in life and grow.

Joejoe
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by bballer1
Probably having sex in our own bed may be the worse or texting him while I was rubbing her foot countless times could be another one. Everyone wants to think their situation is unique and I guess I am one of those guys too.


Well every situation is unique including yours, but the patterns are very similar.

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What I can't understand is why she hasn't moved out or filed for divorce herself. I may not ever know those answers. I really think that the exposure and the OM being removed as her boss played some part in her prolonging her decision to leave. Whatever may happen its not up to me but her. I do know that I need to let her go.


It's probably what LH said, she's got the best of both worlds right now. A supportive husband at home that asks little to nothing of her, a family life, and a nice little fling going on the side. This allows her to stay in the "real world" while also keeping her fantasy alive of riding off into the sunset "some day" with OM. As long as she doesn't have to pay any penalties for this lifestyle then she has zero incentive to change anything. This is why a lot of us push the tough love approach with waywards, they have to face the music before they will repent of their ways.

Originally Posted by BenB
Sorry for hijacking but which ww died and what happened?? Or which member was it so I can search?


I can't remember his handle but yes, I remember the story as well. Wayward wife that left him. He eventually detached, they divorced and he quit posting. He came back, I think it had been a year or more since he posted, just to tell everyone that she had taken her life. She was lost and confused and she never recovered and never found the fantasy life she expected. Very sad story. I don't think he ever posted again after that update.
Posted By: Tryhard Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by BenB
Sorry for hijacking but which ww died and what happened?? Or which member was it so I can search?

Can I ask why you are asking ? It sounds quite ominous !!
Posted By: DonH Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by joejoe1
Stop sitting around waiting for her to make her decision.


Or put another way, stop waiting for HER to make decisions about YOUR future and YOUR life!
Posted By: hoosjim Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 10:10 PM
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IMO, you are in a prime process to get your WW back. I think she is confused and lost. And she's definitely sitting on the fence. But her time on the fence is coming to an end. You are getting tired of being in limbo and you are growing. Last night was a great start.


I agree with joejoe, here-- i do think there is some hope for your sitch, but it is somewhere off in the future, many months at a minimum. Before it could ever happen, though, you need to take control of your own sitch, command the respect you deserve, etc etc... you've heard it all here before, and you have alot of good heads weighing in on your sitch, and now you've made a good start... So stick to your guns! Keep GAL-ing! Get out there and be the joejoe that attracted a "trophy wife" in the first place... or even a better joejoe than that! But it all starts with you claiming the respect you deserve, detaching from your WW and, yes, detaching emotionally from the outcome, whatever it may be. That doesn't mean you have to give up all hope that you may R someday, but you DO need to detach to the degree that your future happiness and success does not depend on a reconciliation with your W. I see similarities between your sitch and mine, and between your W and mine... and things ended up working out for me... but not until i finally "stepped away" and my W finally realized she was going to lose me and lose our family.

I will repeat my favorite snippet of wisdom gleaned from this site: "She will never find you more attractive than when you are walking away."
Posted By: BenB Re: Living in Limbo - 12/03/19 10:38 PM
Originally Posted by Tryhard
Originally Posted by BenB
Sorry for hijacking but which ww died and what happened?? Or which member was it so I can search?

Can I ask why you are asking ? It sounds quite ominous !!


I was just sad reading that, it sounds so awful for that poor poster. Now that AS explained it´s even more sad and breaks my heart.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 03:09 AM
Well day 3 and it has been tough. As long as I don’t see her my emotions are easy to control. I’ve been staying at work late and getting home when she is in the bed. We haven’t talked in 2 days other than her texting me. I tried to not respond but eventually I responded with vague answers to her questions.

She wants to come to my ballgame Friday night? Should I tell her I don’t want her there. She was going to bring my son but I could get someone else to bring him.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 05:01 AM
She wants to come? Well it's a free country. I wouldn't respond.
Posted By: hoosjim Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 05:13 AM
I hope you are continuing to GAL. As long as she is in the house she might as well see you being awesome and doing awesome things. Try to project an aura of quiet confidence, positivity. Get out of the house, meet some friends, but don't tell her where you are going. Be mysterious. Dress sharp and be well groomed at all times. Definitely DONT be glum or mopey...
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 12:48 PM
Originally Posted by bballer1
Well day 3 and it has been tough. As long as I don’t see her my emotions are easy to control.


Hang in there! It'll get easier with time.

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I’ve been staying at work late and getting home when she is in the bed.


Don't go out of your way to avoid her. Your attitude should be "I'm going to do what I want to do in my own house, and if she wants to avoid me then that's her problem."

Quote
We haven’t talked in 2 days other than her texting me. I tried to not respond but eventually I responded with vague answers to her questions.


What type of questions? If it's bills or kids, then reply. If she's asking you what you're doing away from home then it's fine to be vague.

Quote
She wants to come to my ballgame Friday night? Should I tell her I don’t want her there. She was going to bring my son but I could get someone else to bring him.


If it was just her then I would agree with ovr and just not respond. But if you need someone to bring S there then I would probably go with something like "I would like S to be there, if you are going then please bring him, if you're not then let me know so I can ask a friend to bring him." The idea being you could care less whether she's there or not, but you want S there.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 02:13 PM
Well she overheard me talking poorly about her to my mother last night. I was telling her I thought she was narcissistic and evil for continuing to talk to the OM. This comes across as weak. Step backwards due to this incident. I have told her this morning to only contact me about the kids and nothing else. Not how is my day going or what am I doing, or where am I at.

She mentioned in text this morning that we need to go to counseling with no strings attached. I told her I would not be going to counseling while she is involved with someone else. It would not do any good for our relationship. She wants to use counseling to basically say she tried and so that I will not be angry at her once we get a divorce. I do agree that counseling would probably help us communicate better going into a divorce. Right now I'm not dead set on getting a divorce.

She is fine with going 'no contact". Her response was don't get made if I don't text you. What a butt-hole comment to make. She has absolutely no remorse.

I'm really thinking that I may have to file for divorce eventually to get back my power, dignity, and self worth. This is a personal decision that I feel I may have to make when that time comes.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 03:16 PM
Don't let her overhear you anymore, no big deal.

Good job on not agreeing to counseling. She's not in it.

Quote
She is fine with going 'no contact". Her response was don't get made if I don't text you. What a butt-hole comment to make. She has absolutely no remorse.

If she was fine with it she would have done it on her own already and left the "don't get mad" part out. But detachment means comments like these don't bother you.

File for divorce when you're ready for a divorce. Keep walking brother.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by bballer1
Well she overheard me talking poorly about her to my mother last night. I was telling her I thought she was narcissistic and evil for continuing to talk to the OM. This comes across as weak. Step backwards due to this incident.


I don't think that's such a bad thing actually. Now she knows you're not putting her on a pedestal anymore. Do try to avoid venting when she's around like ovr said though.

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I have told her this morning to only contact me about the kids and nothing else. Not how is my day going or what am I doing, or where am I at.


Good. Now if she ignores you and does it anyway, then don't reply.

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She mentioned in text this morning that we need to go to counseling with no strings attached. I told her I would not be going to counseling while she is involved with someone else.


Also good.

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I'm really thinking that I may have to file for divorce eventually to get back my power, dignity, and self worth. This is a personal decision that I feel I may have to make when that time comes.


It's really the other way around. When you get back your power, dignity and self worth, THEN you may find yourself ready to file.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 04:30 PM
It's really the other way around. When you get back your power, dignity and self worth, THEN you may find yourself ready to file.
[/quote]

This is very true!!! Thanks "AS".
Posted By: KristinG Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 04:31 PM
Hey BB,

Kudos to you for weathering the storm. Nice response with the counseling offer from your ww. You're probably right in that she just wants to be able to say "she tried" and it will do absolutely no good for your MR as long as there is another player.

Don't let the slip up with her overhearing you bother you. It's easy to dwell on mistakes and feel like you've royally screwed up. Keep in mind that DBing over time, slip up isn't what they (WS) remember. The hope is that she will start to remember good aspects of your relationship and miss making and having the good memories. So don't let it occupy your headspace. Accept it, don't repeat, and move on.

Good luck and do your thing - whatever makes BB and son happy!

KG
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 05:14 PM
Thanks "KG"!!!

"AS" - I am thinking of moving all of her stuff out of the MB. Her clothes from her closet and all her items from the bathroom. When I leave every morning she goes in the MB to get ready and get clothes from her closet. She did actually use the other bathroom to get her bath last night. Or should I just not worry about that since she is actually respecting some of my boundaries by not sleeping in the MB?

She will become defensive and pissed but at this point I don't care. Just because I didn't answer text messages yesterday she responded that I was being mean. Although I didn't care.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 05:45 PM
Let’s develop a plan first. You’re very inconsistent with your actions.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
Let’s develop a plan first. You’re very inconsistent with your actions.


Ok well I've started with the following.

1. No contact unless it is about the kids
2. She doesn't sleep in the MB
3. When I get home no communication unless it is about the kids. I told her i will not live in an open relationship and we have no relationship as long as she is in contact with the OM. (She didn't disagree)
4. Get my own checking account. Leave it up to her to cancel credit cards and split the bills
5. Take my phone off of her Mobile account. Create my own.
6. I've already retained a lawyer
7. Plan on staying away from her family even though they have been highly supportive if me. To the point that she doesn't speak to her father anymore.

Am I missing some things here. Any ideas to help with detaching.
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 06:09 PM
BB,

Like LH said let's make a plan.

Answer these questions:

Why are you wanting to move her stuff out now?

How does it look that you are moving it now?

Is her being pissed your feelings are her's?

If the answer is YES to the question above, it's not your problem. It's her FEELINGS to work out

Do you feel like you are married man at the moment?

If you don't feel like a Married man, why house your Wife items in the MBR. If she wants to be single or with another person, why not start the process now so she can start to see how it feels without you.

We can work through this before you take the next actions.

Onward and Forward
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 06:14 PM
"LH",
No i do not feel like a married man. I feel like a trapped man because I have a SON that lives in my house with us. If I did not have a son then I would have already filed. To continue this destructive behavior will take unbelievable forgiveness to keep this marriage if she ever comes around.

Moving her stuff out now may look desperate I guess. We have been in cycle where I have said these things before and then allowed her to come back to sleeping in the bed. She almost wouldn't get out until I began talking about the cheating and she quickly ran the other way. I actually called her a cheater and a liar.

As for being pissed it will be how she feels. I may feel bad that she is pissed but it will send a message. I haven't communicated with her in 3 days. This tends to bother her because she wants to just be friends in some twisted way.
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 06:31 PM
BB,

1. No contact unless it is about the kids-Good
2. She doesn't sleep in the MB-Good
3. When I get home no communication unless it is about the kids. I told her i will not live in an open relationship and we have no relationship as long as she is in contact with the OM. (She didn't disagree)-Good
4. Get my own checking account. Leave it up to her to cancel credit cards and split the bills-I would cancel the credit cards and let her know I was doing so. If she wants CC, she can open a credit account in her name.
5. Take my phone off of her Mobile account. Create my own.-Do it ASAP
6. I've already retained a lawyer-Good
7. Plan on staying away from her family even though they have been highly supportive if me. To the point that she doesn't speak to her father anymore.-Don't give up or strain your relationship with your In-laws because of your WW. If she's upset that's her feelings.

Joejoe
Posted By: LH19 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 06:40 PM
See b part of the problem is you make statements like “I won’t live in an open relationship”. You’re living in an open relationship. Now what? Do you understand?

It’s time for action not words. Your only response should be “you know why”. Don’t argue, name call, cave in or back down.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by bballer1
"AS" - I am thinking of moving all of her stuff out of the MB. Her clothes from her closet and all her items from the bathroom. When I leave every morning she goes in the MB to get ready and get clothes from her closet. She did actually use the other bathroom to get her bath last night. Or should I just not worry about that since she is actually respecting some of my boundaries by not sleeping in the MB?


The others already weighed in with good advice, but just to echo what they're saying, just make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. IE, you're doing it because it's what you want, and not to "punish" her, teach her a lesson, or "wake her up". It will probably make her angry, but if you're doing it because you just can't take it anymore and you need as much distance from her as you can possibly get, then you're not going to care if it makes her mad, right?

Quote
She will become defensive and pissed but at this point I don't care.


Quite right. So if it's what you want and you don't care how she reacts, then do it.

Quote
Just because I didn't answer text messages yesterday she responded that I was being mean. Although I didn't care.


The woman is having an affair right in front of your face, and she's going to gripe about you being mean because you're not playing husband for her when it suits her? This isn't you being mean, this is you distancing yourself from her and her crappy, immature, GGW behavior. I think you're doing the right thing, it's best for you and it's the only thing that might eventually shake her out of her fog.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/05/19 07:37 PM
Thanks Guys!!! You are right "AS". I am doing it because I need to distance myself and I need to heal. If I don't interact with her then I feel so much better.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/06/19 03:17 AM
Well she text about my son. I responded due to his phone being dead. I told her if she had the app that allowed us all to keep track of each other then she would know his phone was dead.

When I got home she hung up my phone when calling a friend. She said it was rude because she wanted to talk. I told her we had nothing to talk about. I told her we had this discussion 3 nights ago. She wanted to know how my day was. Felt good to watch her walk away due to my refusal to talk with her.
Posted By: DS9 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/06/19 03:44 AM
Mate, this all sounds a little tense and edgy if I'm reading the exchange right.

Maybe with the App thing, in future you might consider saying something like "I've installed XYZ App on my phone. It's quit useful becuase if S's phone ever dies again we'll know about it (or insert the benefits). Here a link to how to install it on your phone. Appreicate the cooperation. Regds BB".

We all want to say 'told you so', but it just doesnt work mate

On the second exchange, do you think it might have been better to just say your out and about and can't talk just right now? Or am I reading it wrong and she physically hung up your phone when you were on it? If so, that's a boundary issue, isnt it?

Cheers DS
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/06/19 01:51 PM
Yes, she hung up my phone while I was calling a friend. She has absolutely no respect for me. I put her belongings outside the bedroom this morning. She claimed that was threatening behavior and she was going to take pictures of her stuff piled up. I told her she wasn't going to manipulate me. She has hit me in the face 3 times in the past 5 months and I have pictures from where she has scratched my neck and she talks about me being threatening.

The last time she hit me in the face twice our son was in the next room and heard it. He even mentioned it to me and I told him it was ok and that a man never puts his hands on a lady no matter what she may do.

She claimed she wants to file online so I told her to go ahead and do what she needed to do.

Posted By: LH19 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/06/19 01:57 PM
B,

If she doesn’t file you should. Physical violence to totally unacceptable. Tell her if she ever lays a hand on you again you will call the police.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Living in Limbo - 12/06/19 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by bballer1
Yes, she hung up my phone while I was calling a friend. She has absolutely no respect for me.


Yeah that is really rude. And you're right, definitely yet another indicator of the severe lack of respect she has for you.

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I put her belongings outside the bedroom this morning. She claimed that was threatening behavior and she was going to take pictures of her stuff piled up.


Good for you, and her response is comical! Not sure who she thinks she will show the pictures to that will react in any way other than laughing at her.

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She has hit me in the face 3 times in the past 5 months and I have pictures from where she has scratched my neck and she talks about me being threatening.


Wow really? If this happens again then call the police, I am not kidding. Get it legally documented.

Quote
The last time she hit me in the face twice our son was in the next room and heard it. He even mentioned it to me and I told him it was ok and that a man never puts his hands on a lady no matter what she may do.


It is most definitely not OK. That is domestic violence. Just because you are a man and she is a woman doesn't mean it's OK.

Originally Posted by LH19
If she doesn’t file you should. Physical violence to totally unacceptable. Tell her if she ever lays a hand on you again you will call the police.


^^^100% agree^^^
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/06/19 03:27 PM
When I get home tonight I am putting all of her belongings in the other room and changing the lock on my bedroom door. She will be nasty about all of this but guys I don't see an honorable way out of this situation. She has no remorse or respect for me or our family.

Filing for D and possibly moving on may be the best. As for her putting hands on me it wasn't that bad. She may have been provoked a little. I was fine although she felt bad afterwards that she had done it.

For some reason she feels like she should be able to do whatever she wants and comfortably live within our home. She makes claims about us divorcing that holds no weight. Once we go down that road she will lose control of things she can't control. For example, like saying our kids will not be around some of my family members etc... She has no right to make those claims nor can she control them. Just as I can't control if and when my son will be around another man.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Living in Limbo - 12/06/19 06:01 PM
BBaller,

I'd sit tight on things for now. I think you under the "Illusion of Action".

Just take some time to yourself and don't let her keep getting under your skin. Your passive aggressive comment about the tracking app showed your pain. Don't show her that.

You have your setup at home currently, just go with that for a while IMO.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/06/19 06:17 PM
That sounds about right. She claims I am always being passive aggressive. She hates it. Best for me to just stay away as much as possible. No interactions or talking because I will only make it worse.
Posted By: hoosjim Re: Living in Limbo - 12/06/19 08:26 PM
Quote
Just take some time to yourself and don't let her keep getting under your skin. Your passive aggressive comment about the tracking app showed your pain. Don't show her that.


First rule of "Passive Aggressive Club" is..
You know what, forget it, its FINE.
Posted By: hoosjim Re: Living in Limbo - 12/06/19 08:31 PM
Quote
It is most definitely not OK. That is domestic violence. Just because you are a man and she is a woman doesn't mean it's OK.


^^^THIS. This is also a great opportunity for a very clear, very easy to set, very clearly defined consequences BOUNDARY. "I will not tolerate any physical violence of any sort, no matter how minor, against myself or our child. If you initiate any such, i will call the police."

Doesn't matter if she's a guy or a gal, she strikes you that's "battery", and threatening or motioning as if to do so is "assault". Both are crimes in every jurisdiction of the United States.

That's free legal advice, BTW, I usually charge for mine, lol...
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/06/19 09:09 PM
BB,

DBing is a good concept. But it won't stop abuse!!! Your WW is OUT OF CONTROL. She's abusing you in front of your son. Do you want you son to think that's acceptable.

You and your son deserves better!!!! I know you want to reconcile in the future. But from what you have wrote here. You and your WW is in need of some space and distance.

You have been her emotional and physical punching bag, and now it's time for you to TAKE your respect back. She's has been dropping her Sh$t on your lap for a few months now. Stopping picking it up. Move forward with your life. When she's ready she will work to catch up.

Onward and Forward
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/07/19 07:02 PM
Got home last night and she wanted to talk about my day and I said I didn't want to talk. Woke up this morning and she was in bed with me hugging on me and I made the mistake of not saying anything and fell back asleep.

She wakes me up later and is upset that I called her a liar and a cheater to my mother. She had went into my phone and read my text messages. She claimed she wanted to see what I was thinking.

I told her I disapproved of her being in the bed and for looking through my phone. I quickly left the house and went to work.

She later text me about going to counseling. My response was that she only needed to contact me regarding my kids. Counseling for her would be to end our marriage and for me to have some kind of closure. She thinks counseling will justify us getting a divorce and not being together. I don't need a counselor to tell me something I already know.
Posted By: unchien Re: Living in Limbo - 12/07/19 07:07 PM
Time to change your phone password
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/07/19 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by unchien
Time to change your phone password


LOL, no doubt!!
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/07/19 08:52 PM
BB,

Well, she got to see what you were thinking. WW are lost BB, what did she think you would be saying about her. She's an angel. LOL.

If she's gets upset about you calling her a lie and a cheat again. You confidently say, "You are". She can argue, dispute. Just walk away. No need to argue the truth.

IMO, she's getting curious about what you are doing. She probably starting to think you are seeing someone, because your actions are changing towards her. I won't be surprise, if she blame you of such real soon.

Onward and upward
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/09/19 05:57 AM
Well the weekend went well. She came to my game and asked me to go eat with her and my son. We argued somewhat and I said some mean things to her in front of our son. She walked out and went home. She feels like I’ve turned my son against her and made a valid point about mentioning her cheating in front of him. I know I shouldn’t have done that but he already knows.

She is adamant about seeing a counselor and wants our son to see one as well. I still think she wants us to see a counselor so that we can have a smooth divorce. She claims it would be to work on our relationship regardless of what happens in our marriage.

I stuck to my guns and said we can’t have a relationship as long as there is a 3rd person involved. She claims this is only about us and not anyone else. She is just angry and wants us to work on our relationship before we actually split.

I told her I didn’t need to see a counselor until she was sure she knew for sure she wanted to be married and was not in contact with the OM.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/09/19 10:14 AM
B,

I'm not really sure what to say to you anymore.

Saying in that in front of your son is just a so wrong. Arguing with her out in public is so wrong.

Continuing saying the same thing over and over "I will not be in a marriage with a 3rd party " but yet again you are and that doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon.

Then in the end again you with the "please pick me" statements.

I think you two need not worry about counseling for yourselfs but you definitely need to get your son into it. The way you two act you want to try to minimize the damage as much as possible.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/09/19 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
B,

I'm not really sure what to say to you anymore.

Saying in that in front of your son is just a so wrong. Arguing with her out in public is so wrong.

Continuing saying the same thing over and over "I will not be in a marriage with a 3rd party " but yet again you are and that doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon.

Then in the end again you with the "please pick me" statements.

I think you two need not worry about counseling for yourselfs but you definitely need to get your son into it. The way you two act you want to try to minimize the damage as much as possible.



I agree with counseling for my son. He has been exposed to way too much information and he lived in it by being with her at school. He had an idea of what was going on in real time. Kids have mentioned it to him which I'm sure was the most hurtful.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Living in Limbo - 12/09/19 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by bballer1
She wakes me up later and is upset that I called her a liar and a cheater to my mother. She had went into my phone and read my text messages. She claimed she wanted to see what I was thinking.


Well to be honest I think it's good that she saw that. It sends her a clear message that you are not giving her a free pass on her crappy behavior. Incidentally, I imagine what she was REALLY looking for was to see if you were having an affair. She probably thinks THAT is why you've suddenly changed your attitude about her. So now she knows A) you're not putting her on a pedestal and B) this really is about her actions and not about a secret affair you're having.

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She later text me about going to counseling. My response was that she only needed to contact me regarding my kids.


Perfect.

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Counseling for her would be to end our marriage and for me to have some kind of closure. She thinks counseling will justify us getting a divorce and not being together.


Not sure about that, she may feel you slipping away as Plan B and she might see MC as a way of keeping you on the hook. She'll be dangling carrots in front of you (waking up to her hugging you is a great example) to try and get you back on the hook.

Quote
We argued somewhat and I said some mean things to her in front of our son. She walked out and went home. She feels like I’ve turned my son against her and made a valid point about mentioning her cheating in front of him. I know I shouldn’t have done that but he already knows.


Ugh. You've got to try and reign your temper in, I know your situation has got to be extremely frustrating but you've got to be the moral compass for S because your W sure isn't.

Quote
She is adamant about seeing a counselor and wants our son to see one as well. I still think she wants us to see a counselor so that we can have a smooth divorce. She claims it would be to work on our relationship regardless of what happens in our marriage.

I stuck to my guns and said we can’t have a relationship as long as there is a 3rd person involved.


Quote
I told her I didn’t need to see a counselor until she was sure she knew for sure she wanted to be married and was not in contact with the OM.


Don't offer any contingencies, it sounds like you're trying to negotiate. Your response before was perfect- "she only needed to contact me regarding my kids".
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/10/19 03:07 AM
Great day! I felt good and at peace with knowing my marriage may end. Been busy with work and getting home late. The demands of my job keep me extremely busy.
She is meeting with a lawyer on Friday to see what her option are with going through a divorce. I told her if that’s what she wanted to to do then I am fine with it. I want to thank you guys for all your support. I know I will be fine regardless of what happens.
Dating and getting married out of high school causes feared being alone and starting over. Never been there before but I’m sure if it happens then I will be fine and will enjoy my life. My two S are great kids and my best friends. My oldest is a freshmen in college and he calls everyday.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/10/19 09:25 PM
She is begging for counseling. Any advice on this issue. If she is not sure she wants to be married then I don't think counseling will help. Everything I have read or studied says it will not do any good.

It might would help us with communication but this may be a last ditch effort to keep us on speaking terms going into a divorce or separation. I think she wants to do counseling because I have distanced myself from her. It seems if I didn't try then I may regret to giving it a chance. Am i wrong in this regard?
Posted By: LH19 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/10/19 09:30 PM
B,

Everyone here is going to tell you not to do it and you will do it regret it and say I should have listened.
Posted By: Jac12 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/10/19 09:46 PM
B,

Agree with LH. She knows where you stand. Until she is truthful about everything and drops the OM and really shows you that she wants to be with you, what good is counselling? She needs to work on herself too. If you go at this point you are highly likely to regret it.

Someone said it on another sitch - something to the effect of: She's going to try and absolve herself of any guilt and make it seem like you both eventually agreed on D.
Posted By: unchien Re: Living in Limbo - 12/10/19 09:56 PM
Listen to LH.

If you are wavering, tell us what you think are the other benefits to going.
Posted By: hoosjim Re: Living in Limbo - 12/10/19 11:30 PM
You go to marriage counseling to save the marriage, period. If both parties aren't committed to trying to save the marriage, and there is no point. And if one party is still seeing affair partner, by definition they are not interested in saving the marriage.

Until she comes to you, remorseful and contrite, and tells you she wants to put everything in the trying to save the marriage, all you are doing by going to counseling is enabling an easier exit for her. For a WW it is just a box-ticking exercise until they're over the waywardness and go NC with affair partner

Only possible exception here would be if you could find a definitively pro-marriage counselor, who was also well-versed in the addictiveness of affairs and wife is also willing to do IC with that same counselor. Even then, it is risky. My own WW and I seemingly made some progress with such a counselor in those circumstances, but there was no real breakthrough until my wife finally cut all contact with OM. Before that, we were mostly treading water in counseling and early on it was obvious she was just doing it as a box checking exercise. If my wife had not had such a strong grounding in faith and such a strong family-oriented upbringing, us being in counseling when we did may very well have backfired. I was also GAL-ing like a madman, got in best shape of my life, engaged in a lot of activities, drawing interest from other women. Which helped.

But the bottom line was that even in the beginning, my wife was making at least lips service to the idea of saving the marriage. you have to be convinced that your wife is at least interested in making a sincere effort, if not 100% committed to saving the marriage before you start counseling. at a bare minimum contact with the OM has to be cut off. That should be one of your boundaries
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Living in Limbo - 12/11/19 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by bballer1
She is begging for counseling. Any advice on this issue. If she is not sure she wants to be married then I don't think counseling will help. Everything I have read or studied says it will not do any good.

It might would help us with communication but this may be a last ditch effort to keep us on speaking terms going into a divorce or separation. I think she wants to do counseling because I have distanced myself from her. It seems if I didn't try then I may regret to giving it a chance. Am i wrong in this regard?

Ask her what the purpose would be.

Her first sentence should be telling. If she want things to be better than great.

If it's about coparenting, an amicable divorce, etc... than hell naw!

If she hasn't gone cold turkey on POS OM than hell naw!
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Living in Limbo - 12/11/19 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by bballer1
Dating and getting married out of high school causes feared being alone and starting over. Never been there before but I’m sure if it happens then I will be fine and will enjoy my life.


You will, absolutely. I was with my XW from the age of 25 to 51 or so. I had all kinds of anxiety over everything from how to do laundry to how to get the kids ready for school to how I would make ends meet financially. It was a huge adjustment, no question. But I did adjust and it was a smoother transition than I would have thought. I think at the end of the day that we all hate change, it's just human nature to want to keep things status quo. But when we have no choice and we have to change and adapt, we do it. And it's never as bad as we thought it would be.

Regarding being alone, you only will be if you choose to be. There are a lot of women out there looking for a good, loyal man, and not many of them to go around. When the time comes, you will have no trouble at all finding another love.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/11/19 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by unchien
Listen to LH.

If you are wavering, tell us what you think are the other benefits to going.


Benefits would be to help with moving on through divorce peacefully. She has been clear its not to save the marriage but rather to work on our relationship. She probably feels this way due to us not talking as much and showing contempt for one another.

I do think it is more about helping her feel less guilty. When I told her it had to be about the 2 stipulations I set up she stated that, "you will have to trust me".
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/11/19 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
B,

Everyone here is going to tell you not to do it and you will do it regret it and say I should have listened.


Not going to do it.
Posted By: unchien Re: Living in Limbo - 12/11/19 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by bballer1
Originally Posted by unchien
Listen to LH.

If you are wavering, tell us what you think are the other benefits to going.


Benefits would be to help with moving on through divorce peacefully. She has been clear its not to save the marriage but rather to work on our relationship. She probably feels this way due to us not talking as much and showing contempt for one another.

I do think it is more about helping her feel less guilty. When I told her it had to be about the 2 stipulations I set up she stated that, "you will have to trust me".

In this case, don't go.

W: I can't believe you don't want to work on our D'd relationship for the kids' sake!

You: Validate validate listen listen validate validate listen.

I asked that question b/c I ended up going in my sitch. We physically S'ed after the first session, and had I not continue to go, my W would have withheld the kids from staying overnight at my house and I would have had a court battle. I didn't want that for my kids. But even so, sometimes I wonder if I made the right choice.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/13/19 05:02 PM
Well I got the ole you don't really love me or you would go to counseling speech yesterday. She has also moved back in the MB to sleep and refuses to leave the room. I can't persuade her to get out. Anything I say she spins or she mentions my affair from 17 years ago, me telling the OM wife, or me never being around as a husband. 1st night I just decided to go sleep in another bed. Last night I didn't budge and stayed in my own bed. I'm thinking it might be time to change the lock on the door and move her belongings to another room.

After no communication for 4 days she is feeling like I am giving up or letting her go. She has been drinking some, crying some, and texting or calling a little more than usual. I have not been answering her calls and rarely text her back. She gets really angry when I don't text her back.

She got some bad news regarding her job and that really hasn't helped my situation. If anything it throws her closer to her affair partner and now almost guarantees they may have to communicate.

She is going to see a lawyer this afternoon for legal advice. I told her she should go if that is what she wanted to do. She mentioned that she just needed to file and I told her that if she feels that way then I will be alright with it.

I have been very busy but have had no other choice. It has been good for me and has allowed me to not think about my situation as much as I have in the past. In the mean time I have really had doubts about my future with my wife. The more time I spend on myself, the more I realize that I deserve better for myself. It's almost like I have realized there is more to life than living like this because I know I don't have too. I really care about my son and need to do what is best for him and myself. I now realize that letting her go emotionally is very rewarding for me and my mental health. I feel so much better.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/13/19 05:14 PM
By the way all the above behaviors are just to keep me on the hook. In no way has she shown true remorse or affection toward me and the situation. So no I ain't buying what she is trying to sell.

She wants to go to counseling to say she tried.
She wants to control everything and she feels like she is losing control of me and this is only a natural reaction to try and continue to manipulate and control me.
Her job situation - she blames me for telling the OM wife. "No it is her mess and her fault".
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Living in Limbo - 12/13/19 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by bballer1
Well I got the ole you don't really love me or you would go to counseling speech yesterday. She has also moved back in the MB to sleep and refuses to leave the room. I can't persuade her to get out. Anything I say she spins or she mentions my affair from 17 years ago, me telling the OM wife, or me never being around as a husband. 1st night I just decided to go sleep in another bed. Last night I didn't budge and stayed in my own bed. I'm thinking it might be time to change the lock on the door and move her belongings to another room.


Not really surprising, remember what I posted to you about a week ago?

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Originally Posted by bballer1
Ok guys, I sent her back out of the MB last night. I was calm and nice in asking her to move out. I told her I could not have a relationship with her until she was no longer involved with the OM and she was no longer communicating with him. I also stated I do not agree with living in an open relationship and that is what we have had for the past year.


Try not to turn everything into an R talk. You should have just said "get out" and when she said "why" say "you know why". Because she does.

Also get ready because she will turn defiant and move back into the bed before long. So be prepared to address that.


So this is her being defiant again. She's the classic GGW WW. Nothing is going to work with her except tough love. I agree that the best option would be putting a lock on the door and moving her stuff out of the MBR. She will blow her top but you simply cannot reward defiant behavior or it will spiral out of control.

Quote
After no communication for 4 days she is feeling like I am giving up or letting her go.


GOOD. She needs to think she might be losing you, and to start to feel what that is like.

Quote
She has been drinking some, crying some, and texting or calling a little more than usual. I have not been answering her calls and rarely text her back.


Good. Stick to it.

Quote
She got some bad news regarding her job and that really hasn't helped my situation. If anything it throws her closer to her affair partner and now almost guarantees they may have to communicate.


She will look for any excuse she can to run back into his arms and not yours. You can't control that.

Quote
She is going to see a lawyer this afternoon for legal advice. I told her she should go if that is what she wanted to do. She mentioned that she just needed to file and I told her that if she feels that way then I will be alright with it.


This is good as well. You're handling this all really well.

Quote
The more time I spend on myself, the more I realize that I deserve better for myself.


Well you do. And maybe that's still with her, many waywards do eventually hit bottom, repent of their actions and turn their life around. I think she has months or a year or more before that will happen though, she's just as defiant now as ever, if not more so.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/13/19 05:50 PM
I really can't see her repenting and changing for a while. She blames everyone. Heck she even blames her father for not being very affectionate when she was young. She is so defiant that she blames everyone for the fact of her getting caught and now having to deal with the consequences.

What's really crazy is she blames my family for sending the letter to the OM's wife that got all this going in the direction it has gone. I just don't ever see her taking responsibility for her actions until it is possibly too late. That's sad because I have been very committed in all of this.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/13/19 06:14 PM
B,

I’m going to give you a little tough love here. Your goal as you go down the D path is to learn to love and value yourself. Take care of your kids and read everything you can on attraction, alpha males and commanding respect. Sounds like you had a rough childhood so you have some soul searching, healing and learning to do. If you ignore the process you will most likely end back here again. You need to find your worth and realize your value as a person. You were too close to your situation to understand that how your w is treating you is unacceptable and demeaning. When you have time read through curtis7s thread and let me know what you think being an outsider.

You are going to be so much better and happier once you remove her from your life as much as possible.

Time to man up B.
Posted By: Jac12 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/13/19 06:15 PM
You can't see her taking responsibility based on her current actions and behaviour....this could change in time.

If you can afford to be patient and let her work through her own mess than I would advise that. At the same time, you stick to your boundaries.
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/13/19 06:34 PM
BB,

Great job. Like AS said, she will grow more rebellious and seem to lose more control of herself the more she feels she's losing control of you.

A real dumping is really never physical it's emotional. When we break up with someone, it's the emotional part the finally shows the actions of the relationship being over, never the physical part. That's why cutting off all R and M talk is so important. Once a WS feels a LBS emotionally detaching they have to start to make hard decisions and that's what they never really wanted to do. They wanted to keep their cake and eat.

There are three phases of Love:

1) Eros love - known as "erotic love". It is based on strong feelings toward another. It usually occurs in the first stages of a man-woman "romantic" relationship.

2) Philos love - a love based on friendship between two people.

3) Agape - unconditional love

I posted these three because when a LBS starts to emotionally detach, they WS loses two level 2 & 3. The first level is not sustainable and relationship built on the first level has a very unstable base and falls a part with any pebble that hits the pond.

Level 2 & 3 are strong and solid and has proven itself.

So when you are detaching with love/emotionally detaching and doing 180s, you are taking levels 2 & 3 away while building on 1 (becoming more attractive).

Level 2 & 3 can't be built in a day or a month it take years and the ability for a relationship to live out in the open.

LBS are more valuable than any AP can ever be. Because the WS loses more than just lust when they lose the LBS, they lose their emotional foundation!!!!

Most recons start off diving back into Level 1 just for it to die off quickly because of the newest of the relationship. A recon is a new relationship with the same person. It's built off lust, so that's why recon is so hard, because the bottom to level is where the most damage has been caused and takes the most time to build or rebuild.

Joejoe

You are doing great BB.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/14/19 05:22 PM
"JJ", That is very interesting put that way. We allow fear to causes us to try and control 2/3 when that is already gone due to the betrayal and deception from the A. For you to have 1 in a relationship there has to be respect and some admiration toward an individual to feel attraction. I've realized it's not just physical appearance.

I am not overweight and I haven't let myself go from an appearance stand point. I will admit that my actions have shown weakness and not strength which is what I have to get back. Not for my relationship but for myself and my future relationships.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/16/19 03:51 AM
Weekend went well as I was busy with coaching and didn’t spend any time at home. Today my son and I attended church and he spent the day with me at the golf course.

I got home from the golf course and left right away without announcing where I was going. Once I got home later that night I could tell she had been crying. This week I have been doing 180’s, not much communication, ignoring most calls and text, and busy as crap with my job.

I noticed she had been drinking a little more just about every night. Tonight she was drinking as well. She cornered me to give me a letter she had written. She broke down crying and the letter basically admits that she feels sorry for all the lies, betrayal, and pain she has caused her entire family. She seems remorseful and she has been reading several self-help books this week. What surprised me the most is that she has been reading spiritual literature as well.

My response was, I’m not buying it right away. I told her it will take time for her to prove this to me and that she should continue to sleep in the other room. She claims she is done talking to the OM but I didn’t let her explain and I told her I wouldn’t be discussing OM at any point anytime soon.

Do you guys think I handled this well? I’m seriously not in any rush to jump back into her arms. She claims she wants to rebuild our marriage and that we have to build a new relationship. The letter seems heartfelt and almost desperate to an extent of making our marriage work. She claims we owe it to our history and our kids to make our relationship work.

Is having her go back to the other room maybe to tough due to her crying. She is not an emotional person and rarely cries. It seems to be sincere in what she states in the letter. On the other hand she is extremely intelligent and a very very good writer. Why wouldn’t she just sit down and tell me this instead of writing it in a letter?
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/16/19 06:01 AM
BB,

It might be time to lay out your terms/boundaries. You need to sit down and write them down.

I will give you some examples.

First one. Attend counseling of a counselor that is pro-marriage. Have her pick the person out and then you screen. Having her pick the person, shows if she is serious.

No more contact with OM. Have her make a call, write an email or send a letter. My Wife wrote and email. I read it and corrected it before she sent it, I watched her press send and made sure it was in her sent box. You can also have her make the call in front of you.

My wife threw away all the gifts and clothes she wore with OM or around OM.

She gave me the code to her phone and I told her no more locks on phones. I can check her phone, pick up her phone anytime I want to.

And I laid out my boundaries, things I wasn't willing to live with in a marriage with.

Your W seems to be coming out of her waywardness. If she's reading self help books that's a good sign. And only you know if your W is being sincere. You will have to have some faith. It won't be a 100% answer if she's ready or not. But the signs does seem in your favor.

Keep posting!!!

Great job on using the advice!

Onward and upward
Posted By: LH19 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/16/19 10:11 AM
B,

Come on man she's playing you like a fiddle. She goes from seeing a lawyer to all of a sudden full remorse. She's feeling sorry for herself that's it. Tell her you need her phone and the password and see what she says.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/16/19 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
B,

Come on man she's playing you like a fiddle. She goes from seeing a lawyer to all of a sudden full remorse. She's feeling sorry for herself that's it. Tell her you need her phone and the password and see what she says.


I already have her phone and password, but I do need a plan for going forward. She will have to prove she is serious about working on the relationship. I think the first step is to get her to contact the OM and tell him it is over and to never contact her again. Once she does this then I can begin to trust somewhat and have faith in what she says. I think it is also very important for her to share her location with me so that I know where she is at all times.

If she turns off her location etc.. then I know that she is hiding something or being untrustworthy.

After meeting with the lawyer she claims she could never go through with it. The lawyer simply told her our kids are frown and the only asset we have is our home so there is nothing to contest in the divorce. Would be a waste of time to contest anything.

No do I believe her? I absolutely do not believe anything she says. I told her last night that the first thing she would have to do is send an email or call the OM with me present to verify contact is over. She claimed she already did that and has taken care of it. I again told her that she would have to do it in front of me with me present.

Here is the only problem with jumping into this too quickly. Once I state my boundaries and what I must have going forward. If she doesn't hold her end of the bargain then I have to file for divorce. I don't see it any other way. THis is why I am not in a hurry to begin with my boundaries.

I feel like I should continue on my present course atleast through the holidays and after the 1st of the year it will be time to set boundaries and terms for me staying in this marriage. Yes, the meeting with the lawyer probably put things into perspective to some degree. I remember meeting with the lawyer and I had a huge since of despair feeling after I walked out.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/16/19 03:11 PM
I agree to reassess after the holidays. Something is not right.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Living in Limbo - 12/16/19 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by bballer1
I noticed she had been drinking a little more just about every night. Tonight she was drinking as well. She cornered me to give me a letter she had written. She broke down crying and the letter basically admits that she feels sorry for all the lies, betrayal, and pain she has caused her entire family. She seems remorseful and she has been reading several self-help books this week. What surprised me the most is that she has been reading spiritual literature as well.

My response was, I’m not buying it right away. I told her it will take time for her to prove this to me and that she should continue to sleep in the other room. She claims she is done talking to the OM but I didn’t let her explain and I told her I wouldn’t be discussing OM at any point anytime soon.

Do you guys think I handled this well?


Yes, absolutely! Did she mean it? Yes, I'm sure she did. AT THAT MOMENT. Here's the problem, we're always talking about when they say something negative that it is just a reflection of how they feel at that moment in time and that it can and will change with time. However, the same can be said for expressions of remorse. She was drinking and crying and poured out her heart in a letter. Tomorrow she may be sneaking off to the bathroom to text OM, or sneak off to see him. You are right to be skeptical.

Quote
I’m seriously not in any rush to jump back into her arms. She claims she wants to rebuild our marriage and that we have to build a new relationship. The letter seems heartfelt and almost desperate to an extent of making our marriage work. She claims we owe it to our history and our kids to make our relationship work.


Again, she felt that way at that moment. She's going to regress and contact OM again, I'd almost lay money on it. She's on her way down but hasn't hit bottom yet. Once she does hit bottom she may be all-in on the M.

Quote
Is having her go back to the other room maybe to tough due to her crying.


NO!!!!! Definitely not. You do not want her to get the message that all she has to do is cry a little and you'll welcome her back with open arms. You've got to continue the tough love for a while. That doesn't mean by cold and mean to her, it just means you keep your walls up for a while.

Quote
She will have to prove she is serious about working on the relationship. I think the first step is to get her to contact the OM and tell him it is over and to never contact her again. Once she does this then I can begin to trust somewhat and have faith in what she says. I think it is also very important for her to share her location with me so that I know where she is at all times.


Agreed. If she complains you're being "controlling" well that is the price she has to pay to regain your trust. DO NOT give your trust back to her freely, she needs to earn it through ACTIONS.

Quote
I absolutely do not believe anything she says. I told her last night that the first thing she would have to do is send an email or call the OM with me present to verify contact is over. She claimed she already did that and has taken care of it. I again told her that she would have to do it in front of me with me present.


Exactly. Even then you can't completely trust her because she may pick up a burner phone or use an app like Snapchat to cover her tracks.

Quote
Here is the only problem with jumping into this too quickly. Once I state my boundaries and what I must have going forward. If she doesn't hold her end of the bargain then I have to file for divorce. I don't see it any other way. THis is why I am not in a hurry to begin with my boundaries.


That would be true if she didn't want to recon. If you lay out those type of boundaries to a WAS that wants nothing to do with you, then about the only consequence you can pursue is S or D. However, in your case she wants to recon so your boundaries are conditions of recon. If she doesn't meet your conditions/ boundaries, then you do not participate in reconciliation. But that doesn't mean you have to pursue D.

Quote
I feel like I should continue on my present course atleast through the holidays and after the 1st of the year it will be time to set boundaries and terms for me staying in this marriage.


Good plan.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/16/19 04:41 PM
I will say this about the letter and crying etc... She didn't have a glass of wine until afterwards. She wrote the letter during the day. When I arrived home she was reading a self-help book and listening to Oprah's self-reflection stuff. lol

I think I am at a better place for moving forward with confidence. The letter was heartfelt and I think she is only beginning to do some self reflection to realize what she has done. She even mentioned in the letter that she is going to call the OW to apologize and ask for forgiveness for what she has done. I thought this was a big indicator of her remorse because the OW has gone crazy and threatened and ruined her name around town.

She has to be feeling some true remorse if she is willing to call the OM's wife. I am still going to take it slow.

Any advice on boundaries and helping with a plan going forward would be much appreciated?
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Living in Limbo - 12/16/19 04:41 PM
BB,

I think you are handling this well. Slow play everything. Believe nothing, verify everything.

Quote
She claimed she already did that and has taken care of it.[quote] Don't believe this BS. I tried to believe it, it didn't work. Also, don't argue with her about it either. Just tell her "OK, that doesn't work for me".

[quote]Here is the only problem with jumping into this too quickly. Once I state my boundaries and what I must have going forward. If she doesn't hold her end of the bargain then I have to file for divorce. I don't see it any other way. This is why I am not in a hurry to begin with my boundaries.

I agree. Go slow.
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/16/19 04:57 PM
BB,

I agree with AS and LH. I don't think your wife is out of the ball park from being WW. But the signs are positive. Don't have your walls too high you miss the signs you need to make important decisions.

If she is taking the time to write you letters. Than she's prioritizing you. She's thinking about you. And what you are doing is working. The OM attraction is wearing off. Her tears aren't a sign of her making a drastic change, but it is a sign of a form of remorse.

Don't overlook these signs and take them lightly. We can only go off what you wrote, when giving you advice, and from my perspective, she's showing signs off realizing the damage she has done and what's she's on the verge of losing.

Something you wrote did concern me. When you told her that you needed to contact the OM in front of you and she became apprehensive, that's still a sign of protection. Either protection of the OM or their relationship. Do not relent on the last contact letter, email or phone call.

Yes, please don't push to make all these changes over the holidays. Waiting until after the holidays is good. Work your boundaries.

Onward and forward
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/16/19 05:14 PM
I agree "JJ".
She mentioned in the letter that she is tired of lying to stroke her on ego. She mentioned she is broken, afraid, and scared. She also mentioned she has lost control and living against everything she believes, her own principles and values. The biggest belief is her compassion and caring for others because she has hurt so many people.

I am going to take it slow.

What should I title my next thread?
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/16/19 05:26 PM
BB,

It's a new chapter. So let's go with, "walking out of the valley". Since you were living in limbo, let's move forward with this next thread.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/16/19 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by joejoe1
BB,

It's a new chapter. So let's go with, "walking out of the valley". Since you were living in limbo, let's move forward with this next thread.

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/17/19 03:49 AM
Ok, I've been thinking a lot about this today. I've seriously thought about taking my wife to the OM's house and having her tell him in person face to face with me there. Is this over the line or asking too much. Has anyone ever went this far.

It would allow me to be there present and I would know for sure she is serious about putting this to rest. I think this would be a strong stance for me. Any thoughts????
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Living in Limbo - 12/17/19 04:39 AM
BB,

I think it's too far. Listen to how it sounds. You are, "TAKING" your WW,.that's doesn't sound voluntary too me. It sounds like.a forced action. Humiliating, not a great place too start recon. You can tell you wife you will like the no more contact statement too happen face to face, But I would rather over the phone it you want a more personal no contact notice.

A face to.face can be really dramatic, you are wanting to eliminate their interactions not give them another chance to see each other.

You should read up on no contact actions before you decide on which one you want. Read the pros and cons of each.

Joejoe
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/17/19 05:39 AM
Thanks “JJ”, Another big win tonight!! Enjoying coaching and got a lot of good things going for myself. Got home at midnight and she was sleeping in the other room. At least she still respects my requests.
She asked again today about seeing a counselor. I told her to be patient that in time I would sit down with her to discuss my terms and boundaries.

I still don’t think she is ready for those terms and boundaries just yet. Maybe after the 1st of the year.
Posted By: hoosjim Re: Living in Limbo - 12/17/19 07:47 AM
Hey man, just chiming in. I'll keep it short cause you are getting good advice here.

1). Yes, take it SLOW. She is starting to show signs of remorse and of missing you and fear of losing her family, but the turn does not happen overnight. Her ACTIONS will be more important than her words. I hope sandi2 decides to chime in here at some point as this is a crucial time for both of you

2) Don't let up on your GALs and 180s

3) Good boundaries suggested by JoJo. I would add, additionally, that she should be undergoing individual counseling as well, as one of your preconditions.

4) Be prepared for false starts and backsliding, and know ahead of time how you'll react. My W and I had 2 false starts once she first started turning.

5) The cord-cutting from OM has GOT to be done in your presence and, yes, even if she says she's already done it. She has to prove it to you right now. (Though I am with the others here that dragging over to see him in person is a very bad idea.) Let her pick the medium... Phone, email, text, whatever... But you need to be present and the brush off has to be definitive: "what we did was wrong, I want my marriage with bb, don't ever try to contact either of us again...if you do we'll consider it harassment and call the police". If she can't be that definitive, that strident... If she is too worried about hurting OM...she isn't ready. If she calls, you can chime in at some point with a "stay away" or whatever. My W beat around the bush on this one and I was not insistent enough the first coupla false starts. It was only when she "hit bottom" feared losing me and kids, that she did such a good job of "get lost" message. Right after wards, we both changed our cell numbers.

6) The letter might be a good sign. Committing her sins to paper, where, presumably, you could show them to anyone, including a judge, is a big step for a ww... For my W it was a huge step and I never saw such a letter until she was fully remorseful and ready to commit to the MR, ...But it's just a step.

7) Don't take her back too quickly/easily, but don't miss an opportunity to get her on the right track, either...(really wish Sandi or artista would chime in here) Her words, here, and some of her actions are promising. No harm, I think, and even some virtue in acknowledging that to her and saying you appreciate it, even as you let her know she still has work to do to prove herself.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/17/19 12:29 PM
Got home very late. Left early this morning. She calls and then chimes in with R talk and really wanting to see a counselor.

Guys, I'm going to be honest. The letter I believe was just an admission of her wrongdoing. I went ahead and told her on the phone that she would have to send a letter or call with me present and then we can attend a pro-marriage counselor. She is hesitant and did not agree to doing it right now but did agree that it would need to be done. She basically said she understands my request.

As for the letter it was BS. How she was feeling at the time. She goes on to mention that her actions over the course of the past few months suggest she is wanting to live some kind of path. I truly believe we are many many months if not years away from getting this back together.

She is stubborn and disrespectful in everything she does. She only thinks of herself and is all about herself. I may get my brother to come over and we can make a closet in the spare bedroom for her clothes. She needs to be completely out of the MB and using the spare bathroom as well.

I'm thinking over the holidays I need to stay away from her family. I come from a broken home so her family is where we gather every weekend. I'll just have to tough it out and stay away from them. At this point I don't think I need to even speak to her anymore until she is truly remorseful.
Posted By: phnix Re: Living in Limbo - 12/17/19 12:56 PM
Sorry feeling a little frustrated after speaking with her. She has a nonchalant attitude.
Posted By: Cadet Re: Living in Limbo - 12/17/19 01:09 PM
Please start a new thread you are over 100 posts
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