Victorious III - DivorceBusting.com

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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2871732#Post2871732

So today is first day of new job and I love it! I�m completely reinventing myself. I feel great. I�m really excited. The world feels full of possibilities. I�m in control of my life and my feelings.

I have really let her go, and she knows it. I�m Gonna be just fine no matter what she decides. This is the first time I�ve felt this confident in the future.

It�s all thanks to you guys.

Thank you

Wow ... that's great. Very happy for you, I hope I'll feel the same way soon.

So W and I just ate Chinese. Her fortune cookie said �someone you care about desires reconciliation�. We both just started laughing

Thanks Augusto. Hope your well.

So I�ve been googling on how to handle a divorce correctly and not fall into the many unhealthy traps men fall into. I�m glad I found this place when I did.

You guys probably saved my life

Originally Posted by ozman

You guys probably saved my life

Just pay it forward! Many more will be here.

I will.

So now that W knows that I�m letting her go and am not going to hold her back. And I�m completely detached but still willing to work on it. This is the perfect setup for DB correct? Because I am truly ok with whatever the outcome.

Well not really. Now she gets to go live on her own and date other men and if that doesn�t work out she can run back to Oz.

Originally Posted by LH19

Well not really. Now she gets to go live on her own and date other men and if that doesn�t work out she can run back to Oz.

^^^^^^^^ this. This is what I was trying to tell you so you can get things legalized. You really just have her the best of both worlds � oz let me go and is going to support me and help me with everything and now I�m free and I can date!!!!!!�

I�ve been on these boards since 2008. And this is the biggest mistake most people make. Thinking they are going to be best friends, don�t need anything legal in place, because you know, they aren�t going to date or anything. It actually makes you look like a sucker. You said she�s been done for a very long time and that�s how your switch is unique. And now you just basically gave her the go ahead to live this like she wants while you support her. And when she starts dating, I can almost guarantee you won�t be feeling the same about being friends and giving her whatever she needs .

I think you are just telling yourself you don�t care either way. But you do.

If you are are truly truly done. Please get money and custody legalized. Don�t fall into the traps. You can be flexibility, but you need to protect yourself and your son.

Oz you never answered my question about what the thrust of the talk with your W was. Did you tell her you are leaving? Filing for D? Or did you just tell her you are "letting go"? I just have a feeling nothing really got resolved in the convo, that it was just a temperature check on your part. Maybe I'm wrong. If it was a "I'm letting you go" talk then you need to back that up with action.

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So now that W knows that I�m letting her go and am not going to hold her back.

What exactly does that mean? What is going to be different after the talk versus before?

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And I�m completely detached but still willing to work on it. This is the perfect setup for DB correct? Because I am truly ok with whatever the outcome.

What if the "outcome" is just to continue in the exact same limbo you've been in for months and months? Because you should not be OK with that. EDIT- and it's not really "limbo" because limbo implies peaceful coexistence. But your W treats you with incredible disrespect.

Ok. Thank you.

LH isn�t that the whole deal with divorce busting. You let the person go. If they are involved with OM you don�t ask or say anything about it. And if she comes back she comes back and if she doesn�t she doesn�t. Right? Isn�t DBing about yourself and making yourself as attractive as possible. Making yourself mentally ok. With a new much more mature look on life? About your own health and well being. And after alllllll that. If it works great. If not great

Right? Am I missing something here?

Sorry AS. just saw your reply

We basically just talked about what went wrong in our M. She told me she has �moved on� from me. I told her I want you to be happy so I won�t hold you back. We then talked about S and how we would handle him moving forward. And then a bunch of emotional stuff

The only difference I can think of in before/after is she knows I�m not going to fight her leaving. She still knows I want to work on it. But she knows I�m not going to fight her or try to hold on

The outcome will either be recon or permanent separation. I�m not going on in limbo. As of right now I don�t think there is limbo. She wants out and so in a few months we will be living separately

Oz,

Your partially correct. You are forgetting about the part of protecting yourself. I hate to say this but not long after you separate an OM is going to show up and like Ginger says you sure enough are not going to want to be supported her and him.

Also not sure where you�re getting if there is om you don�t do or say anything.

I think you�re trying to put together bits and pieces to fit what you want to do.

I think you need to start being honest with yourself.

My understanding is there are 3 levels of autism.

Oz, what level have you been diagnosed?

What level has your son been diagnosed?

I�m going to hire a lawyer to get everything set I�m stone

Sandies rules 16 and 19 I kinda get the impression of not trying to dig about OM. also I was told multiple times if I don�t have proof then say nothing. Well I don�t have proof and I don�t believe there is OM anyway. She struggles to take care of herself. She is so depressed she just wants to sit at home after work and do nothing. There is no OM

I�ve said it before. I HAD to verbally tell her I let you go. All that stuff you guys said months ago about opening the cage door and dropping the rope. I�ve been doing that. She just hasn�t seen it. I had to TELL her

Oz,

You have a new job ==> more income.
More income ==> Get yourself into IC.

Originally Posted by ozman

If they are involved with OM you don�t ask or say anything about it. ....Am I missing something here?

Yes. That is one option out of many. It is not the best, and it is not the worst option.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Originally Posted by ozman

If they are involved with OM you don�t ask or say anything about it. ....Am I missing something here?

Yes. That is one option out of many. It is not the best, and it is not the worst option.

hijacking for my sitch... what are other better options, if WW is already physically separated (not legally)?

RTC. no disrespect brother. That�s like saying there are 3 levels of color. Or three levels of tall.

Think of it like a speedometer. Divided into half mph marks. And the speedometer goes from 0 to 200. I�m like a 15 or a 20. You wouldn�t notice unless I told you. But my brain works differently

My son would be 120.

RTC. IC is offered by my job for free!! I�m signing up stat.

Thanks man!

Because you are going to separate and do it legally, there is no need to have proof of OM.

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These levels reflect individuals' ability to communicate, adapt to new situations, expand beyond restricted interests, and manage daily life.

People at level 1 need relatively little support
people at level 2 need Substantial Support and
people at level 3 need Very Substantial Support

Originally Posted by ozman

RTC. no disrespect brother.

Just trying to understand.

Based on your speed ratings, you can adapt. Your son needs substantial support.

I can adapt very quickly. I struggle with some concepts and tend to try to look at things in a black and white perespective

My so is unable to grasp abstract ideas. (Ie the sun is on the other side of the globe when it is dark. Or the world is round even though it appears flat)

Like I said. No disrespect. That three levels thing is very inaccurate

Originally Posted by ozman

I struggle with some concepts and tend to try to look at things in a black and white perspective

Seeing all the shades of grey in between is part of DBing. Nothing is always black or white. Being able to adapt and float between the extremes is important.

I find it interesting that you say this, when you split autism up into 200 units.....

Remember when I started talking about chess? Each move you make affects the outcome of the game. There are good choices and bad choices and many choices between them. Life is no different. You can't go back and undo any of the previous moves. Look at the board now and make the best choice. You still have lots of choices.

Originally Posted by ozman

We basically just talked about what went wrong in our M. She told me she has �moved on� from me. I told her I want you to be happy so I won�t hold you back. We then talked about S and how we would handle him moving forward. And then a bunch of emotional stuff

Sounds like just another temp check/ R talk, other than perhaps the discussion about S.

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The only difference I can think of in before/after is she knows I�m not going to fight her leaving. She still knows I want to work on it. But she knows I�m not going to fight her or try to hold on

She didn't know that already? I mean you've told her this same thing before.

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The outcome will either be recon or permanent separation. I�m not going on in limbo. As of right now I don�t think there is limbo. She wants out and so in a few months we will be living separately

What makes you think she will leave? She's wanted out since day one. This talk didn't really change anything.

Why am I making a big deal out of this? Because we've telling you for months and months to stop the temperature checks and R talks and you keep making excuses to have them. This talk accomplished absolutely nothing. You are tricking yourself into thinking that you are changing something by having these talks, but you're not. It's just talk, it means nothing. So I'll ask you again...

What ACTION is Oz taking now that is different than before? What is your plan? Waiting for her to do something isn't a plan.

She is going to leave when lease is up. If she doesn�t want to than I will demand we work on M. I don�t know what I was doing wrong but she thought I was still holding on

I am still stuck here:

Originally Posted by Steve85

Then sit her down and say "I understand you are unhappy. And that you do not want me, our S, or this family. So I have arranged for S to be cared for while I am at work. You are free to leave and start your new life.

Can you dissect it for us?

I knew she didn�t mean what she said about wishing she never met me or had our S

I also did I didn�t matter what I did she could not see I had dropped the rope. Which according to you guys is very important. So I did what I did. And I don�t regret it

H I have a question
W what
H are you still miserable
W yes
H Do you want to work on it
W I don�t think so
H ok let�s go drop S of at your sisters go out to eat and figure out where we go from here

Steve�s recommended script would not have worked. It would have caused a volcanic eruption of an argument. I would have lost any ground gained.

The conversation did not go like I thought it would. It went better in some ways. Worse in others. There is no clear defined plan. She is deciding to look for another job. I just started on my new job 2 days ago. We don�t know what work schedules will look like.

The convo went on for 5 hours. And 80 percent of it was emotional topics about the past. I don�t even remember it all and I�m too tired to try. Everyone around us thinks there is a fair shot at recon after depression. But we still have 4.5 months of living together where she is gonna see me in a new light (knowing that I let her go)

I just want her to find whatever it is she thinks is better out there. I�m not trying to punish her or hurt her in any way. If she goes out and sleeps with 50 men that�s fine. I won�t want her back. I don�t have a plan. I�m going to take it day by day. And I know I�m gonna be alright.

It does however fell like you guys hounded hounded �detach, detach!!� And then when I do and I feel like she could stay or go it makes no difference. You guys make me feel like I�ve done something wrong.

Don�t get me wrong. I love you guys. You have been a beacon through a long dark night. But sometimes I feel like I can�t win for loosin.

I�m happy where I�m at. I love my new job. I�m ok with being single, although I would prefer to recon with my wife.
If she DID say however that she did want to recon. I would have to give it some serious thought. As in SERIOUS. I�m not 100 percent sure I would. I don�t know. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

I feel as though. Looking back on my very first posts. I have reached many of the major milestones you guys set out. I reach them and then I�m told I did it all wrong. And that is very disheartening because I�m very proud of where I am. At this moment.m sitting here typing this

Maybe it�s my cancer returning ahead of schedule IDK. But I think I look at life differently than most people. I just have to adapt and figure out what makes the most sense right now. The rest will go however it goes.

I will have lots of questions about how to behave around her the next few months after completely dropping the rope. Because I do want recon. I�m just gonna be completely ok if I don�t get it. I love her. But I�m sure there is someone else out there that I could live too. Who knows

Please don�t mistake my remarks as disrespect. You guys know how awesome you are

Oz, I think the problem isn't that you've done what people have said, or that you're being told you're doing it wrong. I think the problem is you're looking at DBing like a checklist. Like you do A, B, and C and you've arrived. As if DBing is a path you follow on the way to a destination. And you feel like you've traveled the path to a tee ... And that you should be arriving at the destination any moment.

This stuff isn't like that. What you've done, what you're doing, it isn't wrong. At all. But your expectations with it are. You're standing on top of the mountain thumping your chest in victory. Yet nothing has changed. You're still in limbo. Your fate as a couple is still in her hands. You're saying you don't care if she stays or goes but after the discussion you admit to being sad. Talk doesn't change anything. So what are you DOING that's different?

That's what my suggestion was about. You called a "script". Nope. A script is spoken, what I suggested was action. The script was you telling her about your action. The action was already taken!

Telling someone they are free to go isn't telling them anything. We are all free to go. I could stand up from my seat right this minute, look at my wife, and say. "Goodbye. I'm leaving and never coming back." Then I could walk out the door never to return. I'm free to do that whether she says I am or not.

Imagine if after she says those awful things, instead of plotting to have a discussion you went to a lawyer, drew up D papers and filed. (I can't remember if she already has, but if so then you could change this to going to a lawyer and having a separation agreement drawn up...etc) Notice...action.

Do I believe you've detached? Absolutely, I think you've made great strides on it. But I think you've missed a huge point that talk is not DBing. Action is. Look at the advice we give: GAL..180s. Detach. Action.

So now that you've had the discussion, be what are you going to do? Or is it all up to her, just like before?

Wow Steve. You have given me a lot to think about. Your post provides so much perspective. It feels like there is a lot to unpack there. I�m going to want to revisit this again I think. I think I see where I have been looking at this incorrectly. I was so blinded by the pain in the beginning.

It�s very hard to put how I feel into written form. I hope you understand what I mean when I say �I want it to work out but I�m ok if it doesn�t�. Im completely detached. But I still love her. It�s a very strange feeling.

So we are going to be living together for the next 4ish months because we are in this lease together. If she wants to sign another lease with me. I will demand work on the M and mc. Or I will not do it

I really don�t know what actions to take between now and then. Things have definitely improved since our talk. But basically she is just in a better mood around me. She is so miserable all the time she doesn�t know that it probably won�t get any better once she is on her own. Not until she finds a guy that makes her endorphins go wild and after that wears off she will be miserable again. Unless she can work on herself and find that happiness within her, I�m afraid she is doomed to repeat this cycle again and again, and that makes my heart break for her. Because I want her to be happy.

I hate to say this. But I feel like my M is such a small part of my life right now. I look forward to going to work in the morning. I worry about my son. I try (sometimes unsuccessfully) to not worry about my cancer.

What action should I be taking right now?

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If she wants to sign another lease with me. I will demand work on the M and mc. Or I will not do it

Why do you think demanding things is the best way to behave? That is not leading, that is controlling behavior. Do you think she will find that attractive?

Demand she works on the marriage? Yeahhhhh, forcing her into something she doesn�t want will not make for a healthy marriage. Also, you can demand until you are blue in the face, but that doesn�t mean she will do it.

Oz, you need to live like you are separated. That means stop being her therapist, stop being her punching bag, a lot specific time where you have to yourself and time she has to herself and you keep that time to your self. You don�t invite, you don�t tell her where you are going, it�s simply your time. You need to set some pretty firm boundaries. I think you are confused about how to enforce boundaries. Demanding doesn�t do that. If she speaks to you with disrespect, you say �I�m not going to be disrespected like this� and remove yourself from the situation.

That�s how you �behave� you behave like you are separated, like she isn�t your wife. You live your life as if you were in two different homes. That doesn�t mean be cold. But it also means quit acting like a husband. Split your time, have your own hobbies, quit being her therapist and punching bag, and stop inviting her places. Otherwise she gets the best of both worlds, being �free� as you like to call it, and having a back up plan H.

Show yourself some respect and don�t be a back up plan.

Demand was a poor word choice. My bad. She would have to commit to working on M if we were going to sign another lease together.

Ok. Very serious question here. What about being friends?

Why be friends? Would a friend treat you the way she has treated you? Is that what friends do? Any friend of mine who has disrespected me that much would no longer be my fried. Civil coparents? Yes. Friends? Certainly not now. Friends don�t treat people the way she does.

I hope you really took in all I wrote to you. You are still very much in limbo only now she is getting the best of both worlds. Lucky her.

My ex and I have been civil coparents for many years. In the past few we have become friendly, but not �friends� he does me favors, I do him favors, we all dine together at times ( including his other woman who has been his wife going into 8 years now) they invited me to thanksgiving my ex has actually wanted to attend concerts with me.... but I have boundaries too. I�ll never forget what he did, although I have forgiven. We are friendly but will never be friends. Our daughter is happy, we work together for her. That�s all that matters.

Auto correct is the worst

I don�t take the things you say lightly.

I feel like for the first time in a very long time I can look at things objectively. First and foremost. I just want what�s best for my boy

Do you want to be her friend? We find that most LBS do not want to settle for friendship.

As far as WHAT you should be doing. When in doubt doing NOTHING is doing something.

When it comes to acting, be decisive. Once you make up your mind to act, then act. The worst thing you can do is to act timidly, and assuredly. WASs will detect your weaknesses. And they certainly will sniff out any attempt at manipulation.

This is why when people say "Should I file for divorce?" our answer is "Do you want to get divorced?" Because most LBSs ask that in a way to shake their WAS out of their fog. To give them a dose of reality. This almost always backfires.

In my sitch, early on it, I embraced letting her go and getting a D as a way to try to shake her up. This had no effect on her. Afrer all, she was insistent that she want to get job, get her own place, and get a D. So me "embracing" that half-heartedly (and she could tell) was part of what she expected. Kind of like dealing with a teenager. "Go to your room!" "Fine, I wanted to go to my room!" This the part where words are meaningless. No matter how much I said I was embracing it, she thought "yeah yeah, telling me what I want to hear."

(Note: we often tell newcomers to "let them go to get them back". This is less about getting them back because of the above dynamic. and more about getting the LBS in the right mindset. Eventually the emphasis changes from "getting them back" to "letting them go". I think you've seen this in your own sitch.)

When I contacted a lawyer, well the ballgame changed! Suddenly my actions were backing up what I was saying. I'll never forget the look on her face when she found out I had contacted a lawyer. Her face dropped and she looked at me in disbelief that I had actually taken a step towards getting a D. For the first time she saw me taking a step towards making her dream a reality. And that made her question if she really wanted it or not.

Notice: Words made her feel support towards her dream. Actions made her feel like "Uh oh, my dream is becoming a reality!"

The train was leaving the station but she wasn't sure she really wanted to be on the train.

WASs fall into two camps. Those that really want what they say they want. And those that think they want what they want but aren't sure once they start getting it.

I believe the majority of WASs fall into that later camp. This is why DBing works in those cases, because it feels like on BD they let the genie out of the bottle......and as the LBS DBs suddenly the WAS is trying to get the genie back into the bottle. This is also why most of the time once a D is well on its way, the WAS will start showing signs of regret and even talk about trying again. And that even goes for many of the ones in the first camp!

So do nothing until you are sure what YOU want. And then go get it. The worst thing a human can do is sit back and wait for another human to take action. Which is why I was trying to get you to see that your sitch before and after the discussion is the same. You are still sitting back waiting for her to decide.

(bro hugs)

O - When my Xw first moved out she told me there was no one else, she had no interest in dating, blah, blah, blah. Well she started dating and interacting with guys almost immediately after she moved out. I sat back and waited for her to decide and 8 months later she finally filed.

The one regret that I have is that I did not immediately file for D when she first moved out. Instead we divided up the bills, I helped her move, and essentially I paved the way financially for it. At the time I felt like I was in a catch 22. She wanted to move out but couldn't afford to do so on her own so did I want her to stay in the house if she didn't want to be there? At the time I wasn't strong enough and then 8 months later, after she had been dating and found someone she decided to proceed and file. However she didn't tell me she was dating someone and things had progressed to a level that she was comfortable with. She then asked me if I would help her move out of her apartment and into her current condo which I agreed to do. Then about a month later she told me she was dating someone.

My only saving grace was that I did not chase her, contact her, tried to be friends with her, etc. When she moved out I did leave her alone.

I learned that you just can't stick your head in the sand. I don't believe my XW would have changed her mind if I had filed vs waiting on her but at minimum it would have made her pretty uncomfortable.

Trying to be friends with someone who treats you with no respect is not what�s right for your boy. I�m sure you don�t want him seeing his father being disrespected by his friends which would imply that would be best for him too.

Start small. Civil coparenting. Make that your immediate goal. Friendship is something that comes over time. My ex happens to treat me with so much more respect now that we aren�t married. He treated me like poop when we were married. And I�m so happy my daughter doesn�t see me tolerating disrespect

Great stuff, Steve85. This advice applies to not only Oz but many of our sitches, including mine.

I'm going to hit you with a few more 2x4's. I feel like you're not grasping the concepts of DB'ing and I'm trying to help you with that as are the others here. I hope you understand this and my other comments are not a personal attack, I like you or I wouldn't bother with this. I'm not trying to make you feel bad, just trying to point you in a newer/ better direction as I think others here are as well.

Originally Posted by ozman

She is going to leave when lease is up. If she doesn�t want to than I will demand we work on M. I don�t know what I was doing wrong but she thought I was still holding on

So that's your plan for life and the future, to sit around waiting another 4 months and see if she leaves or not, and if she doesn't, demand that she works on the M (which she will not) or else! Or else what? Another talk? Actions Oz, actions. For the millionth time, talking is NOT taking action. It is the ILLUSION of action.

Originally Posted by ozman

I also did I didn�t matter what I did she could not see I had dropped the rope. Which according to you guys is very important. So I did what I did. And I don�t regret it

Dropping the rope isn't telling her you dropped the rope. You're trying really hard to sell us on the idea that you have detached and dropped the rope, which makes me think you haven't. Once you well and truly do you won't need to convince anyone. ESPECIALLY yourself.

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Steve�s recommended script would not have worked. It would have caused a volcanic eruption of an argument. I would have lost any ground gained.

You don't know that. You like to come up with all kinds of reasons that you have to do thing Oz's way instead of actually DB'ing. And what do you mean lost any ground gained? I thought you were detached and didn't care about W anymore, yet you're still trying to measure relationship "progress"?

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The conversation did not go like I thought it would. It went better in some ways. Worse in others.

It was completely pointless and meaningless. You didn't learn anything new, you didn't tell her anything new, you didn't accomplish a single thing. All you heard was an expression of her feelings as they are at this moment in time, but they can and will change in an hour, a day, week month or year.

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But we still have 4.5 months of living together where she is gonna see me in a new light (knowing that I let her go)

She doesn't know poop, because all you've done is say it, and WAS's don't believe anything an LBS says. WHAT IS OZ'S PLAN?? What are you going to do differently from now on?

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I don�t have a plan. I�m going to take it day by day.

You need to develop one. You need goals for yourself. You need a master plan that does not involve her. Get a life.

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It does however fell like you guys hounded hounded �detach, detach!!� And then when I do and I feel like she could stay or go it makes no difference. You guys make me feel like I�ve done something wrong.

Oz, if you really had detached you wouldn't have temp checked her and then asked her out to dinner to have a long R talk with her. Go back and read TXHubby's threads if you want to see what real detachment looks like. I'll describe it in a nutshell- he had an epiphany that his love for a wife that did nothing but disrespect him was slowly killing him, literally. He got angry, not with her but with himself. He immediately took control of his life. He got fit, dressed better, started going out with friends, and COMPLETELY disassociated himself from his wife even though they still lived in the same house. NO talks of any kind, no idle threats, no "when are you moving", no "how do you feel about us now", no "let's talk about this". He gained his self-respect back. His posts here were filled with his personal goals and GAL activities, little to nothing about his W. I don't think he ever once "said" he was detached during the process. He didn't need to.

So I ask again, what are you going to do differently now?

Originally Posted by ozman

What about being friends?

You should be friends with everyone BUT HER. You want her to be your lover. If she does not want to be that, then she will just be the mother of your child.

Make her really miss your friendship. If she misses you, she may have a change of heart and start pursuing you.

Decide how you what to split parenting duties. This means when you are with son, wife is doing her thing. Then when wife is with S, you are doing your thing.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Originally Posted by ozman

What about being friends?

You should be friends with everyone BUT HER. You want her to be your lover. If she does not want to be that, then she will just be the mother of your child.

Yup. This is the woman who offers ZERO support to you through your cancer struggles Oz, and you want to be friends with her? What you're really saying is you want to keep placating her and kissing her rear while she continues to treat you like dirt, but you think if you call it "being friends" then that'll make it OK. She has CLEARLY shown you that she's not your friend. You're missing who she used to be, not who she is now.

I see. Thank you guys. Thank you very much. I have a lot to ask but I want to re read this last batch of posts several times through. I�m ready to get D�d. I just wasn�t sure if I should do it now or wait 4 months.

And I do see how she has offered me zero support through my life. I listen to her whine every day about her job and how her boss is mean and I offer her words of encouragement. But she is not interested in hearing about how I lost 3/4 if a day at work because I had to clock out to talk to oncologist, get new insurance paperwork in order, talk to specialty pharmacy. I get home tired. Have no support system and still manage to shoulder the load without complaining. To the point my boss said �I have no idea how you show up here everyday with a smile on your face. Your always one of the happiest guys in the shop�

But her boss is mean. So I guess that�s what�s important

Also. If I�m not supposed to talk about R. Isn�t talking about getting our own places and who gets what and such count as R talk. Or no

Steve. ((Bro hugs back))

I needed that lol

Originally Posted by ozman

I see. Thank you guys. Thank you very much. I have a lot to ask but I want to re read this last batch of posts several times through. I�m ready to get D�d. I just wasn�t sure if I should do it now or wait 4 months.

If you filed now, especially with a child, it will be long after 4 months before you will be D'd.

Please reread my last post. Long edit

Originally Posted by ozman

I listen to her whine every day about her job and how her boss is mean and I offer her words of encouragement. But she is not interested in hearing about

#1) I listen to my lady. She needs to talk to feel better.
#2) She does not want to hear your words of encouragement. She needs you to understand how she felt through the day. VALIDATE.
#3) Thank god she does not want to here about your day. Does talking for 45 minutes about your day make you feel better?? I would rather spend 45 minutes cleaning my motorcycle.

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You need to develop one (a plan). You need goals for yourself. You need a master plan that does not involve her. Get a life.

Just to make sure this ^^^ does not slip through the cracks. THIS IS SO SO SO SO crucial. Establishing goals is a key component of DB-ing, both for your own health/sanity/personal development and, later, if it comes, for rebuilding the MR. The DB-ing books tell you this, the DB coaches will tell you this (if you engage with one), and your MC (If you eventually make it to MC and have a good, goals-based therapist, if not, RUN to find one that does) will tell you this. YOU MUST HAVE GOALS/OBJECTIVES/PLANS for yourself and, if in a committed (especially marital) relationship, for that relationship. Failure to have such goals/dreams, both for yourself and for your MR, is quite often one of the reasons the relationship dies. You need to have something to look forward to and work towards... else you stagnate.

You can start small, you don't have to have grandiose goals like "save the world." Start small, and achievable. Then you can add more challenging goals, but always have something ahead of you that you know you can achieve, though it may take work/effort. There is some mental illness history in my family, including depression, and one of the paradigms for attacking depression is "do the next thing". The idea is that, no matter how down, depressed, blue, or hopeless you feel, you keep moving forward. Find one thing that needs to be done, or establish one modest goal for yourself, AND THEN DO IT. Then do the next. Rinse. Repeat.

But you gotta have a plan. We're men. Men always have a plan. "Day to day" don't cut it.

Ok. Step 1 in my plan. .....

Lol. Harder than I thought it would be. I�m gonna need a lot of help on this. When to decide who gets what. When to start looking for my own place. When to discuss who gets S when. When to separate finances etc. and how to do this stuff gently but firmly and in control.

Thanks guys

Originally Posted by ozman

When to decide who gets what. When to start looking for my own place. When to discuss who gets S when. When to separate finances etc. and how to do this stuff gently but firmly and in control.

Hi Ozman, well, I had a rather straight-forward divorce--I wanted out a.s.a.p. so it took 30 days to get terms defined and I didn't spend much time talking. Me: "Here's a proposed childcare plan I downloaded from the Internet. I didn't change anything from the boilerplate. It covers everything from sick days to vacations to phone calls at each others' home. I picked a 5/2/2/5 because that's what child psychologists recommend for ages x and y. They also talk about week on/off and alternate days, but here's some shortcomings. It looks good but you're welcome to find your own plan. Her: "Okay, let me look over it." Me: "It's a weekend later. Any thoughts?" Her: "What does X mean?" Me: "I think X means Y. Think we should clarify it?" Her: Okay, sounds okay. I'd like <change> <change> <change>" Me: <Stews a bit>. "Agreed."

Item splits, we did a personal auction a week before I moved out of the place.

Financial splits were mostly straightforward--50/50. We did that the day we signed our agreement. The initial filing including restraining order to limit any hocus pocus with the kids or shared funds. That's why my discussions STARTED with her being served divorce papers. Service provided protections for everyone.

Thanks for that CW.

1 Is there any benefit to me waiting till the lease is up to file?

2 is DBing in the beginning have really nothing to do with getting WAW back and just trying to get LBS head screwed on straight?

3 I�m I supposed to listen to her vent about her day, do things with her, go to her families together? Or just have very little to do with her?

4 Should filing be my first step?

5 if I file am I standing for my marriage or know. Because I�m confused on that. Acoording to the board. Should I be filing? Or should I be waiting? Seems like I�ve heard both.

Thank you!!!

Btw. I love my new job. So glad I took the leap!

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2030390#Post2030390

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Women are ATTRACTED to men with EMOTIONAL STRENGTH... strength in times of stress. Strong when all around them is crumbling.. THAT is the strength she will respond to.

Originally Posted by Coach

To get there you don't need to understand what your WAW is thinking but understand what she is feeling. Why your actions are making her feel the way she does. Confidence, poise, and self-control are actions you take as a man that make a woman feel attracted to you and safe in your presence. Doesn't mean you don't have fear but have the courage to handle it the right way. You have to be emotionally strong to lead like this.

Use what currently works, understand what doesn't work and why you keep doing it anyway, find a new behavior, try it and keep it if it works. This works for me -TEA. Thoughts proceed emotion and emotion proceeds action. Your woman needs to know her man can control his emotions to take the right action when needed. This is a primal instinct that is hardwired in us.

Stay thirsty my friends.

Cheers
Coach

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2031248#Post2031248

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The bottom line is DB is for you...

Originally Posted by Coach

Focus on the process not the outcome.

Follow your values not some technique. (Don't confuse values with dysfunctional beliefs)

Do the right thing (form counts) vs what will everyone think/feel.

Steve....good stuff. Re reading it again as it�s spot on and I find it helpful in my sitch. Thx
Zip

Oz,

Man after reading your last post it is clear you are all over the place. If you want us to help us you have to be completely honest with us. My hunch is you have read the saying over and over that "you have to let her go to get her back" so you are trying to convince yourself and us you let her go.

Now here is the part you are not going to like. You are probably looking at a minimum of two years before this plays itself out. Either A she realizes life with you wasn't so bad and she misses you or B you move on and find someone else. Zero shortcuts unfortunately no way around it.

So the best advice we give is to protect yourself emotionally and financially and that will also be what is best for your son.

I am really sorry that with everything you are going through you have to deal with this but unfortunately these are the cards you have been dealt.

LH Friend, when I type on these boards I tend to ramble. Like really bad. Lol. I need to do this on a computer instrad of a phone lol. What I�m about to say is the Gods honest truth. I believe in God so I would not say that lightly

1 I am totally ok getting D�d.

2 IF she had a total change of heart right now, I would have to think long and hard before I was willing to recommit. I have forgiven everything she has done and said. But I haven�t forgotten.

3 I�m ok being single and doing more self improvement and maturing as a healthy adult so when the time does come for my next R (regardless of who it is with), I will be the best version of me possible.

4 I still have much work to do on myself

5 I WANT her to be happy. Regardless of who it is with

6 I�m no longer sad about this. I just think I was because of the emotional night we had.

7 I want to proceed carefully so that any hypothetical chance at recon is not destroyed by some careless actions now (this does NOT mean I want to recon, just that I don�t want to ruin it if I can)

8 I�m genuinely confused about whether I should be filing for D or waiting. (Maybe I�m misunderstanding the word �standing�

9. I am not letting her go. I already have let her go

10 I wonder if we would have ever worked out anyways. We have some massive fundamental differences in thinking. (I believe in God, she is a devout atheist). She finds religion repulsive. I always see the good in people. She always sees the bad.

I�m just looking for guidance on how to proceed. As a healthy strong and good man. I want to do whatever is right

I would like to add that I genuine fear I do have. Is being alone forever. Would anyone want to sign up to date a guy who is battling cancer (probably terminal in the long run).

(I hope to beat it though)

I�m not getting doom and gloom Just wondering about the future out there

Originally Posted by ozman

I would like to add that I genuine fear I do have. Is being alone forever. Would anyone want to sign up to date a guy who is battling cancer (probably terminal in the long run).

(I hope to beat it though)

I�m not getting doom and gloom Just wondering about the future out there

I don't think that's doom and gloom at all, far better to face it than pretend the risk isn't there because it may very well drive your decisions. Yes you absolutely would find people to date, I have no doubt. And yes, you could still have a meaningful relationship with someone even if your time is short. Don't cling to a hateful, unloving, disrespectful wife because you think you might not have a chance with anyone else.

Quote

I wonder if we would have ever worked out anyways. We have some massive fundamental differences in thinking. (I believe in God, she is a devout atheist). She finds religion repulsive. I always see the good in people. She always sees the bad.

Wow, those are some pretty major roadblocks to a lasting R.

Quote

I�m just looking for guidance on how to proceed. As a healthy strong and good man. I want to do whatever is right

You've done right by your M up to this point. Now it's time to start doing right by Oz! If you file for D and move out tomorrow then I think you could go to sleep at night knowing you gave it a bold effort. No shame.

Originally Posted by ozman

I would like to add that I genuine fear I do have. Is being alone forever. Would anyone want to sign up to date a guy who is battling cancer (probably terminal in the long run).

Hi Ozman,

For casual dating, where you don't talk about cancer, your prognosis shouldn't matter. Many would be up for a night out at the movies, sipping Mai Tais on the beach, or dancing 'til dawn without asking or wanting to know your prognosis. Many casual daters are monogamous. They just don't want to deal with others' issues.

My partner has a neurodegenerative disease. In her support group, the number of people who are coupled or single isn't much different than anywhere else. As long as you're willing to extend as much support and understanding to a partner as you'd be asking to take, I hardly see your dating outlook as hopeless.

Originally Posted by Ozman

2 is DBing in the beginning have really nothing to do with getting WAW back and just trying to get LBS head screwed on straight?

Getting my head screwed on straight helped me retrieve my walkaway partner, but I agree mostly this site helped me learn to listen (even when it's hard), and cut down on rash, emotional decisions.

Originally Posted by ozman

Just wondering about the future out there

There are so many amazing women out there. You will do fine. Personally, dating other woman should not be on your radar right now. You have more important things to deal with right now. You follow Gekko? If not read his thread.

PS: I am will be deer hunting near Hasty for next few days. Wish me luck. looking for Boone and Crockett

Dating is not on my radar. No worries there. I was just pondering the future

The biggest thing I learned from my D. I would much rather be alone than with someone who treated me cruelly and disrespectfully. And you can�t change her into the way you want her to be.

I just met a man who just celebrated his 59th wedding anniversary. When I asked him how he did it? Never give up he replied

Originally Posted by ozman

I just met a man who just celebrated his 59th wedding anniversary. When I asked him how he did it? Never give up he replied

In my career I meet couples who have been married 50+ years all the time and I always ask them how.

Please don�t confuse never give up with chasing after someone who isn�t in it.

HE didn�t do it. They did it as a couple. Your question should have been how did THEY do it? Because one person cannot make a marriage last 50+ years. They both never gave up

I like to add that my parents have been married for 60 years. When I was first going through my sitch my mom told me that she wanted out after living with my dad for two weeks. She didn't leave him because her sister just got divorced and moved home and she didn't want to be a burden on her parents. Then my brother was born and she stayed for the children.

The point is the amount of years really don't mean anything. You need two emotionally healthy individuals who are mature enough to know that there will be good times and there will be bad times. Enjoy the good times and work hard TOGETHER through the bad times. Unfortunately that's very rare.

These days people see divorce as a convenience. It is easier for one person in a couple that has problems to split and walk away, rather than face them and go through a storm together and hopefully come out the other side and repair relationships, not just with each other but with family and friends that may have been affected by one (or both) spouses talking behind the other's back.

I find it sad that nowadays people can be in love for years, build up to a fabulous wedding, memories, laughter, love. Then one person makes a mistake and the other sees an escape route out as preferable to staying and working together.

You are all correct. The old man told me that sometimes he was only contributing 10% and his W 90% to the marriage. But then it would flip and be the other way around but they always had faiththat the other would come through.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

Originally Posted by ozman

I just met a man who just celebrated his 59th wedding anniversary. When I asked him how he did it? Never give up he replied

In my career I meet couples who have been married 50+ years all the time and I always ask them how.

Please don�t confuse never give up with chasing after someone who isn�t in it.

HE didn�t do it. They did it as a couple. Your question should have been how did THEY do it? Because one person cannot make a marriage last 50+ years. They both never gave up

Well said! I too have met many couples who have been married a long time and pretty much all of them have been through some really bad spots similar to what we see here. The difference is, like you said, both of them chose to work on the M.

Yup.

So the question remains. What do I do now? Is filing for D before or after lease is up have any consequences.

If I file does this mean I�m not standing for marriage?

Steve�s statement �the worst thing a human can do is wait for another human to act�. Is still ringing in my ears. Or..... my eyes.....or something

Lol. You guys get it

Oz,

How is filing standing for your marriage?

This is why I�m confused.

The only thing we are telling you to do is to protect yourself financially when you separate.

How do I do that without getting Divorced?

Times you should file:

You are done with the marriage.

Or

You need to protect yourself financially or with child custody.

I need to file. I think I agree with you guys. Just because she said this and that about she doesn�t want anything from me and will not try to take S from me. I think those statements are going to fall apart when my income triples in the next 3 months. She is already getting irritated because I love my new job. She hates hers and gets irritated because I�m in a good mood in the morning getting ready for work. She wants me to be miserable with her.

I went out last night to go see a band at a small bar. This pissed her off. I think just cause I�m out enjoying life without her.

I could see her changing her tune pretty quick

Quote

Times you should file: You need to protect yourself financially or with child custody.

This is why I had to file for divorce. I didn't want the divorce but I had to protect myself and my daughter.

Im sorry rooskers. It�s definitely a crappy deal

Do I need a lawyer to file?

Yes

Quote

Do I need a lawyer to file?

I agree with LH19. Not only should you get a lawyer but you should get one that specializes in child custody.

Originally Posted by ozman

I need to file. I think I agree with you guys. Just because she said this and that about she doesn�t want anything from me and will not try to take S from me. I think those statements are going to fall apart when my income triples in the next 3 months. She is already getting irritated because I love my new job. She hates hers and gets irritated because I�m in a good mood in the morning getting ready for work. She wants me to be miserable with her.

I went out last night to go see a band at a small bar. This pissed her off. I think just cause I�m out enjoying life without her.

I could see her changing her tune pretty quick

Hi Oz,

Personally, I have not seen any grounds for you to divorce your W. If you had found out she was actively involved with another man, that is one thing. But you have not. Even then, an affair was not a deal breaker for many DBers that repaired their M.

If W files, then support her decision, but don't do the heavy lifting.

By all means, go speak with a lawyer, understand the D process, and what your rights are. DIY divorce is an option. There are templates and standard forms. Arm yourself with knowledge.

Personally, I believe you want to stand for your marriage. It is one of your morals. If I am wrong, correct me. I also believe you want to stand for your family. You want to stand for your son. These are also your core values. That is why you do not file for D.

This is a pro-marriage site. The easy path is divorce. The hard path is standing for your marriage. My understanding it that every couple gets to the point where they are "done".

You have a ton of personal work that needs to be done. You can do this work now, with out getting D.

For example, In your last post:

Quote

She is already getting irritated ... She gets irritated because I�m.....This pissed her off.....

You have lots work to do in this area alone. AS, LH19, and I can see it. Can you???

Your W is a mirror for you to look into and fix your issues. You are her mirror.

This is very eerie because I was just about to ask �what about separation instead of filing for D�.

This also confuses me because of Steve�s comments about �don�t wait for the other person to take action�. That I should be the one who takes action

Originally Posted by ozman

This is very eerie because I was just about to ask �what about separation instead of filing for D�.

This also confuses me because of Steve�s comments about �don�t wait for the other person to take action�. That I should be the one who takes action

I've said that several times in your thread as well. I'm not specifically saying you need to pursue D, I'm just saying that Oz needs to figure out what Oz wants, and Oz needs to pursue that and not just sit around waiting to see what his W is going to do (because she may never do anything). Now that is the opposite of what I normally suggest to people, normally I recommend people take a wait-and-see approach. But that's because most people have the gift of plenty of time, and if it's going to take their W 2 years to turn around then maybe it's worth waiting for. I see your situation differently than most here because of the cancer. You are one hell of a fighter Oz, and you may have a good long life ahead of you. But you may not. You've gotten indications that perhaps you don't. Your W is nowhere close to being in a position to reconcile, and I don't think she can even handle your battle with cancer at all so she is unlikely to EVER support you in it, and you do not deserve that kind of treatment. You are worth WAY more. Whatever time you have left, I want to see you not just persevere but ENJOY it. When you write about how your W treats you, it's awful. Just terrible, it makes me really sad not just that you don't get the support you need from someone close, but that someone could be so utterly heartless towards a total stranger battling cancer much less their own spouse. I honestly don't think she's worth waiting around one more minute for considering every minute you have left is something precious. The same could be said for any of us, who knows how long any of us has left.

Just as a hypothetical scenario, if you had one year left then what would you do. Would you remain as-is with your W, or would you say "screw this if time is short I am going to spend it with people that actually care about me!" Whatever you decide, I respect that, it is your choice and if you choose to spend it with your W then so be it. But think about it. Visualize what you want from the rest of your life if you knew time was short, and make that happen.

Originally Posted by ozman

This also confuses me because of Steve�s comments about �don�t wait for the other person to take action�. That I should be the one who takes action

I assume you are referring to this post:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2871998#Post2871998

It is an excellent post.

Your wife is unhappy. Nothing you can do about that. She might go deeper into the valley trying to find her external "happiness". Nothing you can do about that.

This is where your word choice matters:

"I want us both to be happy"
"You deserve to be happy"
"If divorce is the only way for you to be happy, I will not stand in your way"

As far as actions, they should be in line with your core values. Your core values define WHO YOU ARE and what you stand for.

Clint Eastwood characters typically stand up for what is right. Not what is easier. Not what is safer. Why are woman attracted to him?

Oz this is a pro marriage site and in many cases I believe in standing for your marriage. There are some cases where I don't believe standing for your marriage is the right thing but you will have to come to your own decision about this.

1)If you wait for her to file for divorce do you believe it would harm your child? Would it damage your relationship with your child? Do you believe you would not get to be as involved in your child's life because you waited for divorce? Only you and possibly a lawyer can answer these, but if your answer is an honest "no" to these questions then why push for a divorce? Like AS said let her do the heavy lifting. If the answer to many of these questions is yes then you may want to proceed with a D.

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By all means, go speak with a lawyer, understand the D process, and what your rights are. DIY divorce is an option. There are templates and standard forms. Arm yourself with knowledge.

When it comes to custody please do not DIY. When I said above to get a lawyer who specializes in child custody it only meant to arm yourself with knowledge and your rights (like AS said above), not to start divorce proceedings unless your answer to the above questions was yes.

2)Would waiting for divorce permanently harm you financially? Is your marriage and standing for it mean more than her possibly getting more money if you wait for her to file after your raises? These are only questions you can answer.

Quote

The easy path is divorce. The hard path is standing for your marriage.

100% disagree. Both are equally hard. An example would be is it harder for an abuse victim to leave or stay with their abuser? If you read or talk to many abuse victims they would tell you it would have been easier to stay than to leave. If it was easier to leave an abusive relationship then we wouldn't have nearly the problems with abuse as we do, but instead we have so many from football, gymnastics, marriages, religious groups, and many more. Standing for your marriage is difficult and leaving that marriage is just as difficult.

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You have a ton of personal work that needs to be done. You can do this work now, with out getting D.

If the most you are getting is her being irritated, ignored, lack of love, lack of emotions, angry, then getting a divorce is not going to put a stop to any of that. You would get all of those after a divorce and possibly more. If those type of things are your biggest concern then why file when you could do the personal work you need and let her get the divorce if she wants. You win either way then. If she wants to reconcile you have grown as a person and if she doesn't you still have grown as a person.

Originally Posted by Ozman

This also confuses me because of Steve�s comments about �don�t wait for the other person to take action�. That I should be the one who takes action

Hi Ozman,

Originally Posted by Steve

So do nothing until you are sure what YOU want. And then go get it. The worst thing a human can do is sit back and wait for another human to take action.

Steve's quote isn't about who ends up acting first--it's about deciding for yourself what you want, then actively taking whatever steps are necessary to get there. When the steps are clear, anyway.

Originally Posted by Ozman

�what about separation instead of filing for D�.

Oz, you keep saying you may not have many years left. Is that what would truly make you happy if these are your final years--being married, but living separately? If so, yes, live your dream! I worry a bit when I hear this, that it's more like, "Hmm.. if I do this.. and I wait long enough.. will she do that?"

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

if you had one year left then what would you do.

What if you only had one day left?

It has been a long time since I heard the "first day/last day" lecture, but the premise was to live each day like it could be your last as well as live it as the first day of the rest of your life. I should listen to the CD again.

Life is too short to not enjoy every moment. Even the moments that most think suck.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

if you had one year left then what would you do.

What if you only had one day left?

It has been a long time since I heard the "first day/last day" lecture, but the premise was to live each day like it could be your last as well as live it as the first day of the rest of your life. I should listen to the CD again.

Life is too short to not enjoy every moment. Even the moments that most think suck.

I sure wouldn't be sitting here in the office

If I knew I had one day left I'd take my older girls from their jobs and my son out of school and we'd be heading to the Ozarks right now driving about 120. Then we would spend the day caving, hiking and kayaking. We go once a year and I absolutely love it, I've told them when I die to donate whatever anyone will take and burn the rest and sprinkle my ashes in the mountains, and when they want to think of me then go on vacation there and know that I am there with them. If I knew I had a year I'd be a lot less spontaneous than that, would still go to work, at least for a while

But it's a great point because we could quite literally only have a day, and how many of us are going to be riding the H-train to the pearly gates thinking "dang I really wish I had taken the day off and done something fun!"

Quote

So the question remains. What do I do now? Is filing for D before or after lease is up have any consequences.

If I file does this mean I�m not standing for marriage?

Steve�s statement �the worst thing a human can do is wait for another human to act�. Is still ringing in my ears. Or..... my eyes.....or something

I find this very frustrating how you take one sentence from an entire post, paragraph, or conversation and use that one statement out of context. Steve sent you a very informative post, and he was trying to tell you to know what you want before doing some action.... just to be doing something. He said don't do anything until you know what you want. When you know what you want......then don't wait for someone else to act on it. He did not tell you to file for a D, and he didn't tell you not to file. He was telling you to make up your mind which camp you wanted to follow.

Thanks guys. Thank very much for all the posts. It means a lot. I can honestly tell you I don�t know what I want. But I can say that I am happy. Which is awesome. My happiness is not tied to her.

I do miss, however, human touch. A hug, a pat on the shoulder, things like that.

I�m going to start shopping for my own place. And we need to start deciding who gets what. Do I bring this up to her? Or no

Side note. Sweet as pie to me yesterday. I woke up late at night. She had stayed up late and laundered and hung up my clothes for the whole week. Y thought it was a nice gesture

Originally Posted by ozman

I do miss, however, human touch. A hug, a pat on the shoulder, things like that.

Go get a 2 hour massage.

Go get a pedicure.

Go get a manicure.

go get a facial.

Originally Posted by ozman

Thanks guys. Thank very much for all the posts. It means a lot. I can honestly tell you I don�t know what I want.

Google this:
farfromaverage

Originally Posted by ozman

But I can say that I am happy. Which is awesome. My happiness is not tied to her.

What is your happiness tied to? Others here are struggling, they are reading your thread, and may be able to gain some insight from you.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Originally Posted by ozman

I do miss, however, human touch. A hug, a pat on the shoulder, things like that.

Go get a 2 hour massage.

Go get a pedicure.

Go get a manicure.

go get a facial.

Get a dog. They love affection and giving it. my 100 pound dog thinks he is a lapdog.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Originally Posted by ozman

But I can say that I am happy. Which is awesome. My happiness is not tied to her.

What is your happiness tied to? Others here are struggling, they are reading your thread, and may be able to gain some insight from you.

my happiness is not tied to anything. I wake up in the morning and DECIDE to be happy. If I�m really not feelin it I�ll put on some music that makes me feel up beat. It comes from inside happiness.

There is some cheesy quote that i really took to heart a while back. �Happiness is the journey, not the destination�.

I think finding happiness is looking inward and seeing yourself as a complete person who doesn�t need anybody to survive.

There is no human will every love me as much as my dog does. I�m his world. I think he might even love me more than my own flesh and blood child, lol

Dogs love unconditionally. As in they will do whatever it takes to please

So W is in a terrible mood tonight. Being very short and snippy. Very angry

Check out this phone convo. It�s funny to me

Me hello?
Her hey what do you want to do for dinner
Me (offer a few suggestions)
Her (angrily) I don�t want to do this over the phone.

HAHAHAHA. I don�t mean to laugh. But it�s what she called me for

It is awesome beyond words to not be affected by her moods. I�m just happy.

It didn�t hurt in the slightest.

I�m only talking about it because I never thought I would be here

Originally Posted by ozman

Dogs love unconditionally. As in they will do whatever it takes to please

So W is in a terrible mood tonight. Being very short and snippy. Very angry

Check out this phone convo. It�s funny to me

Me hello?
Her hey what do you want to do for dinner
Me (offer a few suggestions)
Her (angrily) I don�t want to do this over the phone.

HAHAHAHA. I don�t mean to laugh. But it�s what she called me for

It is awesome beyond words to not be affected by her moods. I�m just happy.

It didn�t hurt in the slightest.

I�m only talking about it because I never thought I would be here

Next time forget suggestions. Just tell her, I think we should have "X". Be decisive. Lead. Think about this for next time do you'll have a ready answer. "Let's get Chinese." Have an answer, not suggestions.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Just tell her, I think we should have "X". Be decisive. Lead. Think about this for next time do you'll have a ready answer. "Let's get Chinese." Have an answer, not suggestions.

I completely agree. She NEEDS you to make a decision.

If she does not like your choice, it is up to her to offer her idea. Basic negotiation.

You:"Chinese"
Her,"I want pizza"
You"Burgers
Her:"Chicken"
You "Chicken works for me" or "Bar B Q"

Most likely she will go with your first choice.

I see. Thank you.

I said burritos?
No
Ok spaghetti?
That doesn�t sound good either
Ok. Maybe something really easy like hamburger helper or something?
I don�t want that either
Ok well what sounds good to you?
Idk I don�t wanna do this over the phone

I see my error. Thank you

However in the past when I have just been decisive. She will accuse me of just thinking about myself. Or of asking for something unreasonable because I don�t have our current stock of ingredients memorized and we don�t have the needed materials.

She gets angry when I can�t think of dinner when she can�t think of it either.

This stuff sounds so trivial to me.

Thanks for clarifying.

Maybe try this next time:

W:"What do you want for dinner?"
H:"I am going to get BigMac and fries. Do you want anything from McD?

OR

W:"What do you want for dinner?"
H:"Nothing. I am not hungry."

Oz, did all your proposals involve your wife shopping/cooking? Did any involve you cooking? (You both work, so it doesn�t sound like an �I work, she tends house� setup. You also plan to be single soon.)

Originally Posted by ozman

However in the past when I have just been decisive. She will accuse me of just thinking about myself. Or of asking for something unreasonable because I don�t have our current stock of ingredients memorized and we don�t have the needed ingredients

If you want X and ask her to make X and there�s no X in the fridge, I totally see her point. If you instead make a plan for X and offer to include her�e.g., �I was thinking of picking up and grilling a couple pork chops, if you wouldn�t mind cooking the veggies.. I�d also be down with fast food burgers.�, that�s quite different. Even offering to pick up any ingredients she wants should avoid her being annoyed you asked for something not in the cupboard?

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