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Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2)

Posted By: Augusto

Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/09/19 05:49 PM

Thread 1
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2871459&page=1

Married 20 years, dated 9 years (so 29 years together). 4 girls 18, 15, 13 & 5.
W is WAW, at BD told me she hasn't loved me for 6 years, I've felt her distant for the last 2+ years. Didn't want counseling, didn't want to do anything for R, we're heading towards D. Mediation in a week and a half, court date Dec 12. She's still home, but wants to move out.

Currently W is in NYC, some friends (or a friend) from work bought her a ticket and she's been gone from Thursday to Monday. She's been texting quite a bit, mostly about kids. No arguments so far ...

Today I got a text from her at 1AM, she sent some heart emojis for D5 and said good morning (!?). I took D15 to a retreat, she video called her to wish her well. W saw that my D had a letter, which I wrote for her to read at the retreat. She then texts me;

W: "I noticed D15 had a letter from you. I asked you if they were collecting some and you said no. I would have liked to have sent her one.[
No need to talk about this. Just wanted you to know"
(no need to talk about this, just wants to complain and that's it ... geez)

Didn't know how to "validate" this, because it was completely off. At this retreat letters are not a thing, doesn't mean you can't just do one yourself. I replied;

"Thanks for letting me know. No, they're not doing letters, sent you the list of stuff they needed the other day. That's no a thing in these retreats. Just wrote her a letter of encouragement this morning"


No more discussions about that. Again, she's in that mode of looking to pick a fight / complain about anything. I can't believe she noticed my daugther had a piece of paper over facetime and she decided to complain about this (!!)

I sent her some pictures of D15, she commented how beautiful she looked and that's been it. I'm trying to validate as much as possible whenever there's a chance in the texts that she's been sending. I will say she's been sending more than usual when she's away, probably missing the kids a lot.
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/09/19 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by Augusto
W: "I noticed D15 had a letter from you. I asked you if they were collecting some and you said no. I would have liked to have sent her one. No need to talk about this. Just wanted you to know"

Didn't know how to "validate" this, because it was completely off.

Validating her feelings doesn't imply agreeing with her facts:

"I get you're disappointed you didn't give her a letter, and seeing my letter to her may have rubbed it in. Correct--the staff didn't request and aren't collecting letters."

I get it was important to you to clarify the facts, so this reply validates feelings then confirms facts.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/10/19 02:41 PM

On day 5 of my W leaving to go to NYC. Communication has been only via text, mostly about kids. Things of note are here being thankful for me taking care of kids, and her complaining about the item I mentioned above with D15's retreat (which she ends today).

Last text from her at 10pm last night, wishing D5 a goodnight. Nothing this morning.

In the meantime, I continue to finish paperwork and crap for financial disclosure, which is frustrating as hell. And today I'm feeling specially powerless in the face of not being able to do anything to salvage my M or keep my family together.

Yesterday I found something my W wrote me, in the 1st / 2nd year of our marriage. All the things she liked about me, all the things she liked doing with me. This was before we had kids, the very early times, when we would wake up late on weekends and just hang out laying in bed. I didn't cry, but it did make me sad.

I wanted to call her, and read it to them and talk about how we can go back to those.
I want to text her and tell her how much I miss her, that I love her.
I want to tell her how this D will not solve underlying issues, will make it more difficult for us to raise our kids.
I want to ask her to think about it again.

But I know that won't work. I've tried it all and it hasn't changed anything, at least not changed it for the better. This is the most difficult test of my life, and I don't know if I'm going to pass it ...
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/11/19 01:06 AM

I sent my wife some pictures of D15 as I picked her up from retreat, she thank me for them, was happy to see she liked the retreat. She sent me some texts for D5, I sent her some pictures, she was happy to see her and sent me some advise on her food. So cordial stuff today. She comes back tomorrow, no idea at what time, haven't really asked (well I did before she left, but she says she didn't know).

I've been pretty sad today. Really feeling the loss of our relationship, and the further and impending feeling and fact that our family will be broken apart.

Yesterday and today, I found out how isolated my W has made herself from everybody that we know except her work friends and her distant family in Puerto Rico. A neighbor said she stopped doing the car pool with our kids, because her kids told her that they couldn't stand my W yelling at our kids.

The next door neighbor found out we're getting a D, and she also made a comment about my W that surprised me, I thought they got a long better ...

In the last month I've found from friends that we had that they stopped talking to us because one or other confrontation they had with my W that I didn't know about. It's both surprising to me and embarrassing, I feel I was blind to so many things in our R, because she's my W and I would try to not focus on the negative. Didn't do me any good in the long run.

I feel like she's gotten rid of everybody, our friends, her old family, and that I'm the last thing she's trying to get rid of. It's an awful and exasperating feeling. And there's nothing I can do about it.
Posted By: Jac12

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/11/19 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by Augusto
And there's nothing I can do about it.


Exactly. I'm sorry you are going through this. I feel the same way that you do and I can't understand why she'd be ok with tearing everything apart.

But...I can tell you it get's a little easier every few months (sorry, yes, months) and if you work on yourself and make some positive changes in your life you'll be better off in the end. It's also quite likely the best chance you'll have of R.

Be strong for you kids and focus on the things that are in your control...your W is not something or someone you can control.
Posted By: kbuenob

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/11/19 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by Augusto

I wanted to call her, and read it to them and talk about how we can go back to those.
I want to text her and tell her how much I miss her, that I love her.
I want to tell her how this D will not solve underlying issues, will make it more difficult for us to raise our kids.
I want to ask her to think about it again


Im sorry brother. thats how I feel as well. I found some old letters she has written to me while I was deployed to Thailand. She wrote about how much she missed me and couldn't wait until I returned home. She really loved me. I KNOW IT WAS REAL. I would give anything to feel that love again.

But now the only fighting chance is that I have to fight for myself and my son. Its the only way. I have to really believe in my heart that i'm AMOAFWL. Maybe she will see that and come back...or not. Nothing is guaranteed.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/11/19 07:09 PM

Thanks for the support everybody.

So my W went quiet last night until this afternoon. I texted her last night at what time she'd be home, around 10pm, didn't hear from her (none of us did). Then I texted her again this morning, she responded back like at 12.

She'll be back from her "trip" today in like half an hour. I've been cleaning up and doing chores around the house, but I need to get busy finishing my financial information for the mediation.

Any advise on what I should do when she gets home? I was thinking of just saying hi and leaving, I don't feel like hanging around waiting for her to drop details of her trip or any other awkwardness. To be honest, I'm also a bit upset. But I don't want to just leave and then have her say that I'm bitter about the whole thing. Any ideas?
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/11/19 11:30 PM

She came back. I stayed in MBR cleaning for a bit. Got out, said hi, didn't ask how trip went or anything. Went back to room, got on a phone call and she stopped by and interrupted several times. She did at one point ask me if she could ask me something while I was in the call and I motioned I couldn't.

I don't know if she felt weird I wasn't lingering around. She got the kids ready to drive around a bit, and has been texting to coordinate a few things.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/11/19 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Augusto
She did at one point ask me if she could ask me something while I was in the call and I motioned I couldn't.
Did you find out what she wanted?
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/11/19 11:46 PM

She texted that D15 needed a ride from where she was to dance, so she got her an uber. I told her I could have taken her, she said that's what she wanted to tell me :-/
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/12/19 03:26 PM

So when W came back yesterday, she seemed nice, no problems. Then we kept texting a bit on logistics. I was doing financial disclosure stuff and asked her to pick up D15 from dance.

When I got home, W and D15 were in the car, D15 was crying and looked very upset. W got out and I asked her what was going on, and she said "Nothing I have (or want) to discuss with you" and kept walking. Gave her a bit of time, daughter didn't want to talk, I asked W again what was wrong with our daughter and she said something about how she doesn't have to tell me, she can talk to her about anything.

Talked to D15, she told me her mom was just in a bad mood. She said I was "using her (D15)" (!!!), and a bunch of other stuff. Not happy at all about W saying I'm "using my daughter" but I can't confront her on that because D15 asked me not to say anything to her mom.

W wanted to read to D5, she wanted to watch TV. W was not happy, told her to sleep in her bed, D5 didn't want to, I encouraged her to read with her mom but she was having none of it. She ended up sleeping in the bed.

She disappeared for a while, I think she stepped out of the house to talk on the phone and walk. No idea who.

This morning I woke up W, everybody was late. She was in a better mood, told D5 to make sure she said good morning to me and to show me a toy catalog with some things she was excited about. Again, pleasant and no problems, completely different from last night. During her "trip" she had her hair done, I told her it looked nice (maybe I shouldn't have?). She said thanks.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/12/19 09:56 PM

Any ideas as to how to handle the situation with my W and D15? I'm still not happy about her telling her "your dad is using you". Her narrative is that I've gotten closer to them and played victim so they "pick my side".

She's also pretty much accused everyone in the house to be a "manipulator".

My issue is I don't want to start an argument, and I don't want to put D15 in a though spot because she's afraid her mom will find out she told me this. I'm trying to ignore it for now ...
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/12/19 10:30 PM


Take D15 to lunch. Go enjoy her. Validate her feelings. Focus hard on listening.


Stop asking W about her relationship with D.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/12/19 10:35 PM


Also,

Go to the book store and browse the parenting section. One or two books should stand out. While you are there, check out the personal growth section. Buy them, read them, then go back to book store and repeat.


Focus on your relationship with your D15. She needs you now more than ever.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/12/19 10:58 PM

Good advise, thanks. When I drove her to school this morning, we went to our secret breakfast spot, some of the best Cuban sandwiches you can find in FL. We were laughing that now that we go to this place, we don't have to look at the menu or say anything because they know what we want.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/13/19 10:32 PM

We always did it, but specially now, I'm thinking of getting Disney passes for the kids and myself. However, I'm thinking of *not* getting one for my W.

I don't think she would mind too much, to get a break she would tell me to take the kids by myself even before and one year even said to not get her a ticket.

Still, wondering if this could cause tensions. I'm thinking of mentioning it to her first, but do I have to? Any ideas?
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/13/19 10:55 PM

Buy passes for you and kids. Wife can buy her own. Do not mention it first.



Tension is not a bad thing. How you handle it is the only thing that matters. You can handle it.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/14/19 08:41 PM

OK, I kind of messed up last night, lots of stuff going on, could use some guidance.

1) Since coming back from her trip, my W seems more upset at me. I didn't complain about the trip, and we were communicating ok via text. When back, I didn't run up to her and linger, I tried to mind my business, said hi and went back into MBR. I was talking on the phone with a friend, and she interrupted a few times to ask me things, so far she was pretty nice. Later that night something happened and she seemed more dismissive against me, she had a fight / argument with D15.

2) For some reason, she has no money. I don't know why, she has her own account and I can't see it. She got paid Friday, but asked me for gas money the other day. We have an account that we share, and I put money in it. She spent most of it, and asked me to put more. I didn't, and when she was driving back from work she ran out of gas (!!!). She's just upset in general that she doesn't have money ... she was used to just getting my paycheck and doing whatever she wanted ... which caused a lot of problems in our M.

3) Yesterday she just wouldn't even say hi. Against my better judgment I decided to ask her what was wrong, what did I do to upset her? She said "I don't need to talk to you". I insisted, she told me the other day she felt my actions don't follow my words, I told her if she could explain that. She refused to. Then she started yelling at me, and launching her list of complaints. I did finally get a bit upset and tell her she's lacking empathy and is being extremely rude, this upset her more and she yelled even more. She said "we're not friends" and that I'm just upset because she's not talking to me. I told her I didn't want to talk about R, but I want to make sure we can get along. She said she was not sorry to tell me what she's telling me, that she wants to stand up to herself and that maybe her delivery (yelling) is wrong. She apologized to D15 and D13 for yelling, which was good to see at least.

So that's the situation, I should have not asked her why she was upset and just let her be. But we've regressed here, and I have no idea why. My only guess is her frustration at the lack of money and she having to ask me for money. I can't just give her my paycheck, and I don't want to just give her a chunk of money to budget at this point. Whatever amount of money is there, she'll spend up to it.

She says she has no money, yet she bought shoes and still buys junk from Ross. She's always had this problem, it really sounds like an addiction.

We were going to go to mediation next Tuesday. I asked my L to postpone it, I have a super important meeting I can't miss that day and it's being moved to Dec. I expect my W to be super upset at this, she thinks I'm delaying the whole process. Which I'm not consciously doing.
Posted By: rooskers

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/14/19 09:16 PM

Your guidance is:

-stop all and any communication with wife that isn't absolutely necessary.
-stay out of W and children's relationship unless it becomes abusive and if it does handle that using a lawyer and law enforcement
-work on yourself
-work on your relationship with children
-work on being the stability your children need
-make sure you are financial secure (no joint credit cards or other loans)
-GAL
-detach for your own sanity

Why:

Quote
my W seems more upset at me


She is and there is nothing you can do about it because I doubt even she knows why right now.

Quote
she interrupted a few times to ask me things, she seemed more dismissive against me, Yesterday she just wouldn't even say hi, She refused to, she yelled even more. She said "we're not friends", She said she was not sorry to tell me what she's telling me


Her actions and words seem to align. She has zero respect for you!

Quote
I did finally get a bit upset and tell her she's lacking empathy and is being extremely rude


She is lacking empathy, is being rude, doesn't have respect for you, chooses to see only the negative, chooses to be angry with you, chooses to damage her relationship with her children, chooses to spend her money unwisely. So the question becomes what are you going to choose because you can't control her only you.

Quote
I expect my W to be super upset at this, she thinks I'm delaying the whole process.


If it is the best thing for you or for the children you don't need to care.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/15/19 03:42 PM

Thanks roosk, I needed that. Will try my best to follow your advise.

W is increasingly upset, and not well either (stress).

She asked me to pay some of her bills, because her credit score dropped again (ironic because she screwed both of ours) but I had to email my L to see if I'm supposed to pay those or not. Haven't heard a response yet.

Then she asked me if I was picking kids up tonight, which is supposed to be "her weekend" with the kids. I told her no, because I'm planning on doing some GAL activity (still don't know what). She asked me why? So now is upset, I don't know if she's upset because she had a plan to do something or because she hates the idea of seeing me do something else (or a bit of both)?

She then went on a texting tirade about this, and how I never helped her or cared about her. She's completely rewritten our 20 year M and 29 year relationship. I tried to validate a bit and keep responses short, but she just kept going on a barrage. Then telling me to tell my L to stop delaying things, that delaying the D is hurting our kids. I had to fight every urge to respond to that.

So things are tense, but I'm going to do something tonight because as roosk said, she has no respect for me and I have to stop playing Mr. Nice guy.

Sunday is D15's birthday and still don't know what we're going to do, so trying to figure that out.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/15/19 05:14 PM

Augusto, very sorry you're going through this! It's hard enough without the WAS going into screaming witch mode. But it happens, and all you can do is detach. Rooskers offered some great advice.


Originally Posted by Augusto
For some reason, she has no money. I don't know why, she has her own account and I can't see it.


I think we had this discussion before unless I'm mixing your sitch up with someone else's, but I highly recommend you come up with a set amount that you transfer every week/ bi-weekly or monthly. Make it clear to her that that's what she gets, period. She needs to learn to balance her finances on her own, might as well start now. If you maintain this situation where she has to keep asking you and you have to keep meting it out to her, then that is just going to cause a lot of anger and resentment as you've discovered. Transfer X to her and that's it. If she spends it on purses and shoes and runs out of gas as a result, that's not your problem.

You've got to detach! Quit getting drawn into long convos. Quit rescuing her every time she screws up. Leave her alone!

Quote
She's just upset in general that she doesn't have money


And who's fault is that? She wants to be single, let her be single. She's got to discover that the single life isn't all rainbows and roses.

Quote
Yesterday she just wouldn't even say hi. Against my better judgment I decided to ask her what was wrong


And it backfired. So what did you learn?

Quote
I should have not asked her why she was upset and just let her be.


Exactly.

Quote
But we've regressed here, and I have no idea why.


It's normal. This isn't a linear process. There are good days and bad days.

Quote
We were going to go to mediation next Tuesday. I asked my L to postpone it, I have a super important meeting I can't miss that day and it's being moved to Dec. I expect my W to be super upset at this, she thinks I'm delaying the whole process. Which I'm not consciously doing.


Quit worrying about her reactions. If she can't be angry with you about that she'll find another reason. Let her be angry- her circus, her monkeys.

Quote
She asked me to pay some of her bills, because her credit score dropped again (ironic because she screwed both of ours) but I had to email my L to see if I'm supposed to pay those or not. Haven't heard a response yet.


Again, quit rescuing her. Pay her bills to raise her credit score? Are you kidding me????? Not in a million years.

You can't placate her. You can pay all her bills, pay for all her gas, take her shopping for shoes every day, and she'll still hate you. And worse, she'll have ZERO respect for you, because she'll see you as a pushover.

Quote
Then she asked me if I was picking kids up tonight, which is supposed to be "her weekend" with the kids. I told her no, because I'm planning on doing some GAL activity (still don't know what). She asked me why? So now is upset, I don't know if she's upset because she had a plan to do something or because she hates the idea of seeing me do something else (or a bit of both)?


First, great job telling her "no". You need to learn to make a habit of that! Second, who cares why she's upset. She's just looking for reasons right now.

Quote
She then went on a texting tirade about this, and how I never helped her or cared about her. She's completely rewritten our 20 year M and 29 year relationship. I tried to validate a bit and keep responses short, but she just kept going on a barrage.


Here's what I suggest- when she does this then go onto your phone and temporarily turn off notifications for her texts so that your phone doesn't buzz or ding when she texts. The texts will still show up when you go in and look at them but you won't get constant notifications. Then later, in an hour or whatever, read the texts and offer ONE validating statement such as "you sound angry, I am sorry you feel angry over this" and then let it go.

Quote
Then telling me to tell my L to stop delaying things, that delaying the D is hurting our kids. I had to fight every urge to respond to that.


Good, often silence is the most effective response.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/15/19 06:26 PM

Oh I forgot, we swap cars (they're both in my name for now) ... and idea she hated ... but I told her when it's my weekend with the kids to leave me the van. Other times, to leave me my Honda Civic (which I'm still paying, a crazy loan amount because of her screwing up my credit, but I digress). Well, she's grown fond of the Civic (probably because it uses less gas).

This morning she wanted the Civic back.

W: "Can I get the car keys to the Civic?"
H: "No"
W: "Why?"
H: "You've got the kids this weekend, I don't need the van"

She then gave the keys to the van to one of my kids to hand it to me, I said no thanks. As I was driving away with D15 & D13 she stood in the front door screaming "You want to play this game boy?!?!? Slams door" - wow

It's times like this when I start wondering why I want to save my M.

Tonight I'm going to focus on GAL. One simple 180 I'm doing is taking care of my health. My wife, when she cared about me, used to always remind me about going to the doctor and even schedule appointments for me. Then it stopped. I'm trying to catch up, and it feels good to do it all on my own.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/16/19 08:30 PM

No arguments or yelling from W after last incident. Last night I went out, so we didn't have any interactions besides me calling her so she could open the door to the pizza guy (D15 was hungry and I ordered one remotely). My W was exhausted, and slept in early (she's like that a lot lately).

Today we had minimal interactions, talked a bit about D15's birthday tomorrow, options. Very cordial, but you can see how guarded she is when talking to me. D18 wanted me to go to her school to cut my hair so I left for that, my W was laying down and looked like she was crying a bit or about to cry. Again, she looks super stressed and holding things in. Don't know exactly, and I'm not going to ask because she won't tell me and I want to avoid conflicts.

I'm going to leave tonight to GAL again. Kids find it odd for me to leave, I told one of them 'hey this weekend is for you to hang out w mom more', she told me the whole thing was "stupid" ... like I think, but she said it not me.

My W's weekends with the kids are still kind of strange because I'm here on Sunday anyways (I take kids to Church) so it's not the same when they're with me, where she goes away and completely disappears.

Was going to get kids Disney tickets, D15 originally wanted to spend her B-day at Disney, but I'm still thinking about it. If we go, I'd have to buy my W a ticket (not necessarely an annual pass). If I tell my W she'll refuse, if I don't tell her who knows what she might do. But I can't go with the kids on her b-day and just leave their mom. We might just go out to eat and she wants to join us ... but thinking about it.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/18/19 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by Augusto
I really want to decorate with the kids, so I'm thinking of not kicking her out but at least rearranging that area to accommodate for the Christmas tree. Perfect time to do so is when she leaves on one of her weekend outings she does. Should I tell her that's my plan, or just do it?

It's going to irk her either way I think ...
Personally, I would just do it.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/18/19 07:02 PM

Somehow I'd you you'd say that R2C ... going to give it a shot. Kids will be a bit nervous too, so we're not going to do anything radical, but we have to return to normal somehow ... and her 'apartment' isn't normal.

Next few things; we did D16's birthday yesterday. Went to downtown disney (disney sprints). W was all over the place. I asked her what she wanted to do, she said she had no plans because she has no money. Said to figure it out and she'll join us (this was 'her' weekend w kids btw).

I asked D16, she wanted to go to Disney Springs, other kids too. W told me she didn't want to go. She told some of the kids the same. So I told D16, look mom doesn't want to go, do you want to change plans? W then backed off and said she was going. She told me why I told the kids she didn't want to go (because she said so?).

The day before she sent me an angry text of why I was planning stuff with kids on her weekend ... again she told me to arrange for the b-day, and all the ideas were from the kids. When D16 told me what she wanted to do I texted her, please review with your mother. It just seems to me she's looking for reasons to complain and argue.

So we had a good time at Disney Springs, no arguments, so it was great. W took some nice pictures of me with girls which she sent me, so that was very nice.

One side thing, I regret not having bought the Disney tickets. But maybe it's bettter to get them for thanksgiving break. I told D16 I was planning on doing that, but D18 wanted her mom to go too. D16 said "Mom told me she's DONE with theme parks, that she rather take us to trips like her trip to NY". Was a bit surprising to me, but oh well. The kids love going to Disney so I think I'm going to continue that. There's so many changes, it's good to do some things they're used to. Even if it doesn't include mom, unfortunately.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/18/19 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Personally, I would just do it.


^^^Yes^^^

W- What is all of this? I go away and you just completely change everything???
Y- It sounds like you are angry, is that how you feel?
W- YES I'M ANGRY BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
Y- Yes you do sound angry, I am sorry you're feeling angry.
W- HOW DARE YOU BLAH BLAH
Y- I will not be spoken to in a disrespectful manner, especially when the kids are near. Please stop or this conversation is over.
W- YELL YELL YELL SOME MORE
Y- [leaves room]
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/18/19 08:05 PM

Is the purpose of not telling her about putting the Christmas tree around that area to establish respect? She has lost all respect for me, so if that helps, I'm all for it.

In other news ... my W had asked me about holiday arrangements, suggesting her own. I consulted with my L, she said to only discuss thanksgiving with her and the rest during mediation. I also told my W to give me a few days to think about Thanksgiving.

Well, her L sent a longish email to mine, sending the schedule my W had sent and asking that I discuss and agree with her about it. Well, haven't really had time, specially when she went to NYC and is angry all the time. So her L sent mine an ultimatum that I need to discuss that with my W by tomorrow or she'll advise my W I'm not interested in holidays with my kids and she can do whatever plans she wanted to.

My L shut her down pretty harshly .... my W's L sounds pretty incompetent.

Now my W this morning text me I can keep kids for Thanksgiving (originally she wanted them). I'm fine either way, to m it's more important to spend Christmas eve with them. So plan might be to a friends house that we go every year, my W is invited, but she says she's not going to go (she doesn't want to do much or anything with our old friends).

The other thing, this morning it looks like my W read the response to her filing for D from my L and she's pissed. I haven't even read it myself but my L outlined that she was pretty irresponsible with our finances and dissipated our assets, so I imagine it said there that we're not going to split everything 50/50 (as a background, my W CASHED OUT my kids pre-paid college fund ... !!! 3 of them).

This will probably hurt my chances for reconciliation, but I'll be honest, I'm tired of her screwing up our finances and the future of our kids. I would still love for us to be married and work our issues, but on this matter I'm not going to be taken advantage of any further.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/18/19 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Augusto
Is the purpose of not telling her about putting the Christmas tree around that area to establish respect? She has lost all respect for me, so if that helps, I'm all for it.


I saw your comment in another thread that she has moved into the living room with a chest of her clothes that you would have to remove to set the tree up, so based on that I'm going to go back on what I said before and say don't do it, it's going to cause too much extra friction in an already volatile relationship. Set the tree up somewhere else and leave her be. If there's no place else for the tree then get a small one and put it in the kids' room. Next year you can set it up wherever you want, but try to avoid rocking the boat for now.

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I consulted with my L, she said to only discuss thanksgiving with her and the rest during mediation. I also told my W to give me a few days to think about Thanksgiving.


Again in the spirit of not rocking the boat, be responsive on this kind of stuff. Thanksgiving is barely a week away, telling her you need days to think about it seems like dragging your feet. I know this stuff is hard but face it down and try to keep the peace as much as possible.

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So her L sent mine an ultimatum that I need to discuss that with my W by tomorrow or she'll advise my W I'm not interested in holidays with my kids and she can do whatever plans she wanted to.


It's not an unreasonable request, and never should have gone to the lawyers.

Quote
The other thing, this morning it looks like my W read the response to her filing for D from my L and she's pissed. I haven't even read it myself but my L outlined that she was pretty irresponsible with our finances and dissipated our assets, so I imagine it said there that we're not going to split everything 50/50 (as a background, my W CASHED OUT my kids pre-paid college fund ... !!! 3 of them).


Well, that was VERY irresponsible of her. Don't back down on this, fair is fair no matter how much she hates it.

Quote
This will probably hurt my chances for reconciliation, but I'll be honest, I'm tired of her screwing up our finances and the future of our kids.


It will have no impact on future reconciling possibilities. I've seen couples reconcile after far worse.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/18/19 09:46 PM

I think I found another option for the tree, still in the living room but without moving her drawers with clothes. There's an area on the corner I could use. We'll have to move a table and another sofa a bit ... but I do want to start setting up for Christmas. The other area is in front of a portrait we have of her with her wedding gown, don't think she'll mind if we put the tree in front of it :-)
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/19/19 06:13 PM

A lot going on ... but this was surreal.

On the way back from Disney Springs, W and D18 started arguing. D18 was just telling W what road to take, something trivial, and they starting fighting over that. D18 said some mean things; 'You're angry at the world. You're angry at everybody, etc.' and W was arguing but not screaming (she was tired). I started talking to D18 and telling her to please be respectful with her mom, that if she didn't like how she said something that she made her point, to not keep piling on. Told her to be grateful mom is driving her where she needs to go in the first place.

Then yesterday, in the middle of another discussion ... W is complaining to me that D18 was telling her some very mean things "you're going to end up lonely and die alone", while I was busy on my phone. I have no recollection of that, I remember them talking but since my W doesn't want me to meddle in her things I was minding my business until I couldn't.

So damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's just amazing how the reality disruption works! It makes me question my own memory!!!
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/19/19 07:11 PM

Hi Augosto,

When W said D18 told her some mean things, did you validate? “Wow, I bet it hurt hearing D18 sound so angry at you.” I guess I’m missing a step, how you go from she’s upset at what D18 told her—which is a great opportunity to validate her feelings (it’s easier when we don’t feel like the cause of someone else’s pain)—to feeling like you can’t win?
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/19/19 07:25 PM

Sorry, didn't explain right. She complained that D18 said mean things and that I didn't say anything, just stayed quiet and on my phone.

Should have validated, but this was so off reality I told her I actually told D18 to be respectful to her.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/19/19 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Augusto
I think I found another option for the tree, still in the living room but without moving her drawers with clothes. There's an area on the corner I could use. We'll have to move a table and another sofa a bit ... but I do want to start setting up for Christmas. The other area is in front of a portrait we have of her with her wedding gown, don't think she'll mind if we put the tree in front of it :-)


Ha! Yeah that sounds like a good plan.

Originally Posted by Augusto
A lot going on ... but this was surreal.

On the way back from Disney Springs, W and D18 started arguing. D18 was just telling W what road to take, something trivial, and they starting fighting over that. D18 said some mean things; 'You're angry at the world. You're angry at everybody, etc.' and W was arguing but not screaming (she was tired). I started talking to D18 and telling her to please be respectful with her mom


Why oh why did you take sides? HUGE mistake!!!! What did your D say that was wrong? Your W IS angry at the world and everyone in it! I'm not saying you should side with your D, I am saying the fight was between W and D and you should stay out of it. If either one of them asks for your opinion then you validate.

"Do you hear what your D is saying? Aren't you going to say something??"
"I can see that both of you are very upset, I am sorry you're fighting, I don't want to interfere as that might make things worse."
"Dad, mom is so angry about everything and treating us so poorly, you need to tell her!"
"I am sorry you're upset, this is a difficult time for all of us and I hope we can support each other rather than fight."

Take a neutral stance. You're not on anyone's side, you're there to support BOTH of them.

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that if she didn't like how she said something that she made her point, to not keep piling on. Told her to be grateful mom is driving her where she needs to go in the first place.


You INvalidated. You basically told your D her feelings don't matter. Can you imagine that in this extremely difficult time for her how that must impact her, to have her own dad tell her she's wrong and needs to shut up and be happy? Look, if your D gets mad or frustrated or upset then RESPECT that. Those are HER feelings, and you need to support her instead of alienating her. ESPECIALLY your D. Your W is the author of this mess, but your D is a victim.

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W is complaining to me that D18 was telling her some very mean things "you're going to end up lonely and die alone", while I was busy on my phone.


"That must have been very difficult for you to hear, how did that make you feel?" Brush up on the validation threads.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/20/19 09:01 PM

Yeah, this is the second time I "defend" my W when one of the kids are arguing and it always backfires. I'm a slow learner.

The war between D18 and W continues. I was GAL'ing last night and D18 called me that she needed some food, then my W called me too and I didn't answer as I was talking to D18. She texted something like "Interesting that you only answer when you need something". I responded that I was talking to D18.

This morning my W said that D18 told her "You're not my mom, you're only my legal mom" and other harsh things. I told her I'll talk to her, she asked me not to, that when I talked to her last time she used that against her (against W). So I'm left with my daughters continuing to have these fights with my W and me not being able to do much or anything. Very frustrating.
Posted By: rooskers

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/24/19 12:08 AM

Quote
So I'm left with my daughters continuing to have these fights with my W and me not being able to do much or anything. Very frustrating.


Concentrate on your relationship with D18 and don't worry about theirs. D18 is hurting a lot and if you try to interfere with her anger at W then she will see this as you taking sides against her. Don't encourage any harmful behavior or words but at the same time don't try to fix it. It is likely D18 just wants someone to hear her anger and love her anyways. Please be that person. I understand how frustrating this can be, just read my sitch.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/25/19 03:58 PM

Thanks rooskers.

Yeah situation with the kids is delicate, basically the 2 oldest ones have issues with their mom right now, and D13 is the one that seems to be more attached to her ... she told me something mean this weekend, but thankfully she did apologize. I found a diary she wrote while fixing her bed, and it broke my hear that she wrote earlier this year that she thought her mom hated her. I don't know why, but they all felt like that at one point or another, and I didn't realize it until now.

This weekend, but specially sunday had a lot of fun with the kids, specifically D5, she really wanted to play soccer so we went and practiced at night and had a lot of fun! Also went to play old school arcade games.

This weekend my W came back from her weekend away that she does every other weekend, which was weird. She came back Saturday, sat in my bed to talk to me about some kid stuff, was overall nice. Then she left for a "birthday party" and didn't come back until the next day. I'm really getting sick of her weekend away, just looks bad to me and I don't even know what to tell the kids.

Mediation is nearing ... December 13 is the day.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/25/19 07:16 PM

Holidays ...

A mutual friend of ours invited us for Thanksgiving and my W told me if I wanted to go with the kids, that she was going to decline. She's having almost no contact with our old friends.

So initially she wanted to do thanksgiving with the kids and not me, not she flipped and I'll have the girls for Thanksgiving.

She also told me it was OK if I wanted to have the kids over Christmas break (their cousins are visiting) and since I'm getting Disney passes that I can take the kids to the parks even this weekend (supposedly her weekend with them) if I wanted to.

So I'm all for spending as much time as possible with the kids, but really weird that she's saying all of this. I also can't believe it's so easy for her to not spend the holidays with our kids. That's never happened before .... am I reading too much into this?
Posted By: rooskers

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/25/19 07:17 PM

Quote
it broke my hear that she wrote earlier this year that she thought her mom hated her. I don't know why, but they all felt like that at one point or another, and I didn't realize it until now.

I have found that my D13 had a completely different experience with her mother her whole life when I wasn't around. I have been shocked what my daughter has revealed to me. My XW had checked out on the family a long time ago and not only was I blind to what she was doing to me but I was blind to what she was doing to D13. In the beginning it was easy to get so caught up in my own pain and feelings of betrayal that I was blind to how much my XW had hurt D13.

It is possible your D13 feels her mom completely pulling away and so her response could be much like many of us have in our early stages which is to panic, beg, and plead for the relationship in her own way. She is scared of losing her mom and since she sees and feels her mom pulling away, her anger will probably be directed at you because it can't be directed at the one she is afraid of losing. Fight her anger with your love, counter W unpredictability with dependability. I strongly urge you to find a therapist (preferably a female) to help guide her through this.

One way I was able to communicate with my daughter was by keeping a shared journal. It is a way for her to express her feelings of anger and hurt toward her mother. I can then validate and consider my responses before writing them in the shared journal. It is amazing how much more she communicates with me as opposed to having a sit down talk.

You might feel like you should bring all of this up with your W. I wouldn't recommend this because it will be seen as controlling and as if you are trying to accuse her of being a bad mom. She will then likely respond with anger and accuse you of trying to manipulate the children against her. Let your W do what she is going to do because you cannot fix her or fix her relationship with the children. If she leaves or doesn't want to spend time with them it is her problem not yours. All you can do is be the parent who is always there for the children. My daughter has this memorized "Always and Forever No Matter What!"

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I'm really getting sick of her weekend away, just looks bad to me and I don't even know what to tell the kids.

If you are talking about telling the children you are separating then there are plenty of books to help or you can schedule an appointment with a therapist to help guide you through it. If the question is how to talk about your W's actions don't say anything. The children have noticed and I guarantee they are hurting deeply from it. The only thing your children need from you is unconditional love, support, and to know you will always be there for them. Spending as much quality time with them as you can will be the action that proves it. Playing soccer with your daughter was perfect.

Finally, take some time to relax because your children will notice. It will help them to understand that no matter what their mom is doing or not doing, their dad is a lighthouse to guide them through stormy weather.
Posted By: rooskers

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/25/19 07:26 PM

Quote
So I'm all for spending as much time as possible with the kids, but really weird that she's saying all of this. I also can't believe it's so easy for her to not spend the holidays with our kids. That's never happened before .... am I reading too much into this?


Quote
she thought her mom hated her. I don't know why, but they all felt like that at one point or another, and I didn't realize it until now.


Quote
The war between D18 and W continues.


Quote
Then she asked me if I was picking kids up tonight, which is supposed to be "her weekend" with the kids.


Quote
When I got home, W and D15 were in the car, D15 was crying and looked very upset. W got out and I asked her what was going on, and she said "Nothing I have (or want) to discuss with you" and kept walking.


Quote
I can't confront her on that because D15 asked me not to say anything to her mom.


Your children are saying something loud and clear to you and your W's actions are backing it up. Please do everything you can to truly listen to what your children are saying. I didn't truly listen to my daughter until she had thoughts of suicide.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/25/19 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Augusto
Holidays ...A mutual friend of ours invited us for Thanksgiving and my W told me if I wanted to go with the kids
Accept the invite. Go enjoy your time with your kids and friends.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/25/19 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Augusto
She also told me it was OK if I wanted to have the kids over Christmas break (their cousins are visiting) and since I'm getting Disney passes that I can take the kids to the parks even this weekend (supposedly her weekend with them) if I wanted to.
Hopefully you have this in writing (email or text). I would confirm with an email, and be fair with offering splitting the break with W. At some point you have to make a decision on what parenting arrangements are best for your children. I believe 50/50 is best unless one of the parents is being extremely irresponsible. Professionals are better at making that decision than the spouse. They can use your input though.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/25/19 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Augusto
but really weird that she's saying all of this. I also can't believe it's so easy for her to not spend the holidays with our kids. That's never happened before .... am I reading too much into this?
Trust your gut feeling.

Her attention is elsewhere. Don't take it personally. Take actions.



Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/27/19 10:23 PM

Finally got Disney annual passes. Got them for everybody but W. D18 kind of wanted me to get some for her mom, but understands that's not possible right now.

As we were leaving, W was ok, but she started texting me about splitting the cell phone bill. I asked her to please let me enjoy the day with the kids and not text me anything about the D at least for the day.

We had a great time, spent all of our time in the new Star Wars land, didn't do any rides. Tried the drinks in the cantina, the stores, etc.I sent W pictures of the kids through the day. No responses at all.

When we got home, she looked like she was in a bad mood. Told D5 to take a bath and she told her she wanted to take it with me. D16 needed to go to a friend's house but didn't want her mom to drive her. My W didn't even ask the kids if they enjoyed Disney. Was all weird.

When I get back, W throws D5's blanket in my bed. I think D5 told her she wanted to hang out with me, and she was a bit upset at that.

W stayed up pretty late at night, just there. Looked sad/depressed. When I got out of my room, she was sitting in the sofa, crying and playing with one of those sand relaxation boxes ... raking lines in the sand and just looking like a zombie. I made the mistake of asking her if she was ok, several times. She just told me "I don't want to talk to you". I'm pretty worried about her mental state. He moods change pretty quickly, and there's no way to know why ... something I did, something that's happening to her ... no idea. Very frustrating, but nothing I can do about it.
Posted By: NewLife3

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/27/19 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Augusto
As we were leaving, W was ok, but she started texting me about splitting the cell phone bill. I asked her to please let me enjoy the day with the kids and not text me anything about the D at least for the day.


For about 2 months after BD, my wife was constantly texting things that we needed to split up. it always seemed to come at the most inopportune times and would just feel like a dagger in my heart each time. Then you know what -- I finally took initiative on MY side and eventually we finally had everything split and it ended. It has been the most freeing feeling.

Has your W not made any more initiatives on moving out? Once she moves out and takes all of her stuff with her it feels absolutely terrible.. But then you know what, you get to the other side and find that's not so bad either.

None of these things are guaranteeing you won't have a R in the future. Not even a divorce guarantees that. In all honesty -- as bad off as your W sounds right now, a true physical separation is what needs to happen now both for your sanity and hers.

I feel so free in my singleness. She moved out mid September. Who knows -- she may want to have a R with me in the future, and she might not. Just over 3 months post BD and I'm fine with whichever way this goes.. You will get there too.
Posted By: rooskers

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/27/19 10:54 PM

Quote
I asked her to please let me enjoy the day with the kids and not text me anything about the D at least for the day.

Awesome job. That day was about you and the children not your W and that is the way it should be.

Quote
Told D5 to take a bath and she told her she wanted to take it with me. I think D5 told her she wanted to hang out with me,

D5 will quickly understand who is emotionally attached to her and will look to you for support and love more and more. Unfortunately, this is likely to anger your W since it isn't about her.

Quote
D16 needed to go to a friend's house but didn't want her mom to drive her.

As you listen and validate D16 she will most likely come to you a lot more with things like this. Be her rock while she navigates this roller coaster with her mom.

Quote
I made the mistake of asking her if she was ok, several times. She just told me "I don't want to talk to you". I'm pretty worried about her mental state. He moods change pretty quickly, and there's no way to know why ... something I did, something that's happening to her ... no idea. Very frustrating, but nothing I can do about it.


Well at least you see what your mistake was. Easier said than done but stop worrying about her so much. You understand from reading all the sitch's on this board that her moods will change on a dime and it isn't about you it is about her. Is it something you did, of course it is in her mind, you just went and had a wonderful time with the children instead of sitting depressed wondering if she was thinking about you. Enjoy life with your children they need you right now and if W doesn't like it she can either reconnect and join the family or she can leave and hold on to whatever is troubling her.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/27/19 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by Augusto
I sent W pictures of the kids through the day. No responses at all.
Did she ask for you to do this? If not, I would strongly consider not sending photos of kids while they are with you.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/28/19 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by Augusto
I sent W pictures of the kids through the day. No responses at all.
Did she ask for you to do this? If not, I would strongly consider not sending photos of kids while they are with you.


No. She has asked before, but she didn't specifically this time. I honestly thought she'd like them, sometimes she says thanks or something else. This time she didn't respond, and you're probably right ...
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/28/19 08:08 PM

So today I stay with girls and go to a mutual friends house for thanksgiving, which is where we usually would spend the holiday. My W left at 10am, as I was taking D16 with me to Church. So she left D13 watching over D5.

I can’t believe how she can just leave like that, this is the first Thanksgiving ever we’re not together, first she’ll be without the kids. And she’s probably going to spend it with another family!

She texted me today to ask me if I was taking kids to Disney this Saturday. This is supposed to be her “weekend” with them, but she’s wants an answer to probably plan her Saturday. Again, she seems eager to be away from her family and it breaks my heart. Like it’s not enough to just reject me, it’s worse ...
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/28/19 09:31 PM

BTW - Happy Thanksgiving to all of you.

I'm super thankful to God for this community, the support and advise you guys give keeps me sane and has helped tremendously in this difficult journey. This is what God intended us to be, loving and helping others, showing empathy, doing what we can for those who need help ... please know that your advise and support is super valued and appreciated ... even though when we're hard headed and we don't follow the advise given.

Now I finally understand why people say holidays are a though time for them, it's my turn, but I'm growing closer and closer to my children ... making up lost time, I'm changing, learning new things and being more self sufficient. I don't think God intends for me to be divorced, but I know He is making me grow through this trial, and I intend to not waste that opportunity.

Thank you all.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/29/19 09:27 PM

Lots going on but need some advise here. Kids want to go to Disney tomorrow, it’s my W weekend to be with them, but she’s encouraging me to take them. Keeps asking so she can plan her day. I rather take kids and have more time with each them , but also feel a bit being taken advantage of, and that I’m enabling whatever it is she rather send time on ...

Thoughts?
Posted By: neffer

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/29/19 09:35 PM

Enjoy your kids. Have fun. Go man!
Posted By: NewLife3

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/29/19 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Augusto
Lots going on but need some advise here. Kids want to go to Disney tomorrow, it’s my W weekend to be with them, but she’s encouraging me to take them. Keeps asking so she can plan her day. I rather take kids and have more time with each them , but also feel a bit being taken advantage of, and that I’m enabling whatever it is she rather send time on ...

Thoughts?


Who cares what she is spending time on.. Enjoy your kids. If she starts doing it consistently then it will become a problem.. But for now I would say try and get as much time as you can with them and enjoy every second of it.
Posted By: NewLife3

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/29/19 09:46 PM

My WW is shopping with her new BF today while I was able to enjoy a full day with my S4 for Thanksgiving. I ain't complaining
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 11/29/19 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by NewLife3
Who cares what she is spending time on.. Enjoy your kids. If she starts doing it consistently then it will become a problem.. But for now I would say try and get as much time as you can with them and enjoy every second of it.
This^^^^^^^^


Take the kids every chance you get. Keep track of it in your parenting "Log book".


Somewhere in the future, you can look back at the logs and decide if you want to address this as an issue.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 12/05/19 06:06 PM

Thanks for all the recommendations, I went with Disney with the kids again and we had a good time!
My W of course, as I expected, got home at 1:30am right after we got back from Disney, from yet another birthday dinner. Oh well.

Anyways, lots going on, main thing is she feels the kids are giving her the "cold shoulder", mainly 3 out of the 4, and she blames me for it. More concerning (and I have to post something more about her later) is D5. Lately we've been spending a lot more time, and I finally took her to play soccer like she had asked me several times, and is growing closer and closer to me.

At the same time, she has been rejecting her mom, which I don't approve of. The other day her mom was going to take her to school, and she refused saying she wanted me to take her. I told her several times to go with mom, but she was having none of it. My W was obviously very hurt. The other day I was on a business trip and came back at night, D5 slept late and didn't wake up on time for school the next day. My W said that the night before she told her she wanted me to pick her up, and that she didn't want to sleep with her.

So the last 2 days I've let my W alone with her to make sure she spends quality time with mom. I think part of the way D5 is reacting is that her mom hasn't been spending a lot of fun time with her ... like "her weekend" she asked me to take her to Disney, thanksgiving, the week of thanksgiving, etc.

This morning my W started yelling at me again, and saying that I'm the cause for her behavior. I asked her to please let me know what I'm doing to make D5 reject her, she couldn't name a thing. She told me I'm rejoicing in it, and that I'm not doing anything to discourage her from behaving this way. I told her to please stop having these arguments in front of the kids, she said "They know everything", excusing talking about these things in front of them. I repeated the same, I don't want this to happen anymore.

So I had to tell her "Look, I didn't want to tell you to hurt your feelings but D5 told me this morning you are mean to her. I told her that's not true and that if mom asks you to do things its because you have to do them, and you have to listen to her".

Anyways, she kind of said at the end "Well, I'm sorry then", but her apology didn't sound sincere to me.

So just now she called me out of the blue, very short call, just to tell me she wanted to apologize for he behaviour this morning and that's not the type of communication she wants to have with me. So I guess that's positive, I think it's the first time since BD that's shes really apologized for anything.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 12/05/19 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Augusto

This morning my W started yelling at me again, and saying that I'm the cause for her behavior.

Either

validate "I am sorry you feel that way"

or gain respect

"I will not tolerate being yelled at. I will listen to you if you can speak in a calm tone" Walk away if she keeps yelling.



I feel validation is best. You are a strong confident man that can handle her yelling.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 12/05/19 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Augusto
This morning my W started yelling at me again, and saying that I'm the cause for her behavior. I asked her to please let me know what I'm doing to make D5 reject her, she couldn't name a thing. She told me I'm rejoicing in it, and that I'm not doing anything to discourage her from behaving this way. I told her to please stop having these arguments in front of the kids, she said "They know everything", excusing talking about these things in front of them. I repeated the same, I don't want this to happen anymore.


First of all, respect your D's feelings. She is struggling with how her mom is behaving towards her. You should absolutely, positively NOT defend your W's lousy behavior. You should NOT dismiss your D's feelings, especially right now. She feels her mom isn't listening to her and soon she will feel like you're not either if you keep this up. Learn to listen and validate, not just with your W but with your D as well.

Second, do not allow your W to talk to you like that in front of the kids. Tell her if she wants to discuss it then to ask you to discuss it in private. If she starts to do it in front of the kids tell her to stop immediately or the conversation is over. If she continues then leave the room or go for a walk or something. Don't put up with it. Just sitting there saying "please stop having these arguments in front of the kids" while she continues to rant and rave and be defiant makes you look weak and powerless not just to her but to the kids as well. Stand up to her.

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So I had to tell her "Look, I didn't want to tell you to hurt your feelings but D5 told me this morning you are mean to her. I told her that's not true and that if mom asks you to do things its because you have to do them, and you have to listen to her".


Again, don't force your D to do things she doesn't want to do. Be respectful of her feelings. If she says her mom is mean to her then don't say "yeah but do what she says", say "how does that make you feel, are you sad?" Open a dialog. Let her express her feelings. Tell her you are sorry she feels that way, and ask her if there is anything you can do to help. Consider getting her into some counseling, it sounds like she's really struggling right now.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 12/05/19 08:19 PM

Thanks, I didn't think of validating D5 because she's so young. She is going through a lot, and it's starting to surface now. I talked to her school's guidance counselor and let her know what's going on. We will definitely do some counseling for the girls ... mediation is next week and I told my L that's something I want to work out in an organized fashion.

So here's the other thing that happened with D5, that I'm not sure what to do about. Last week, we were out playing soccer at the park and out of the blue she tells me she doesn't like to go to her mom's friend's house. I asked her which friend, she mentions her name. I ask why, she says at her mom's friend they only speak spanish and she doesn't understand. Her "mom's friend" is a friend she has from work, don't know much about her, all I know is that she's divorced and was homeless for a bit some time ago and my W helped them out.

So then D5 tells me she was one time at her mom's friend's house and the police came over (!!!). That she didn't see the police because they put her (and her mom? It wasn't clear) in a room. That a glass broke, and that somebody got cut. That her mom's friend sister yelled at her mom, and her mom cried.

I'm there just listening, and can't really believe/process what I'm hearing. She even went so far as to tell me in her way that this is the truth, because I think she saw my face of disbelief.

I know from my kids, the older ones have not interacted or being to her mom's friend house. They don't even know her name. And that the only one that has gone there in the past is D5 .... which is suspicious to me. I remember one time my W went to pick me at the airport and was 5 hours late, and D18 called me asking if she had picked me up, and I said no, and was crying thinking her mom had an accident. At the 5 hour mark my W picks me up, with D5 sleeping in the car. She told me she was helping her friend with something.

So what to do ... ? I haven't brought it up to my W because I feel once I ask she's going to freak out and wonder if this is something I want to use against her. I don't believe my W would put any of my daughters at risk, but I do not appreciate that she may have taken her someplace I don't know, with people I don't know and there was potentially some incident there and she never told me about it.

I emailed my L about this, but she hasn't responded.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 12/05/19 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
You should NOT dismiss your D's feelings, especially right now. She feels her mom isn't listening to her and soon she will feel like you're not either if you keep this up. Learn to listen and validate, not just with your W but with your D as well......... Be respectful of her feelings. If she says her mom is mean to her then don't say "yeah but do what she says", say "how does that make you feel, are you sad?" Open a dialog. Let her express her feelings. Tell her you are sorry she feels that way, and ask her if there is anything you can do to help.
Focus on Validating your Daughters feelings. This is one of the most important things you need to do. Focus on this until it is a habit.
Posted By: Ready2Change

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 12/05/19 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Augusto
one time at her mom's friend's house and the police came over (!!!).
Hopefully it was a one time issue. I would keep dialog open with D5. Keep track of how frequently she visits freinds house and how she feels each time. Address it in the future. Discuss with her therapist.

We had to have a "safe word" with stepdaughter while she was away with bio-dad. If she ever mentioned that "she didn't sleep well" that was code that she didn't feel safe. Thankfully, we never heard these words from her.
Posted By: rooskers

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 12/05/19 10:44 PM

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Told D5 to take a bath and she told her she wanted to take it with me. I think D5 told her she wanted to hang out with me,


D5 will quickly understand who is emotionally attached to her and will look to you for support and love more and more. Unfortunately, this is likely to anger your W since it isn't about her.


Augusto I have been through this twice now and that is where my advice was coming from. D5 is looking for someone to trust and you have to be that person. She may only be 5 but the emotional bonds she makes now are some of the most important. Validate and listen closely to what she says.

As you spend more time with all of them, all your children will come to you more and this will anger your W. Please do not let your W prevent you from validating what your children want to tell you. Your children will also likely get mad at W and even you at times but anger is a completely reasonable emotion for them. They can see what your W is doing to you and even more importantly they can see what she is doing to the family. Don't they have the right to feel mad? If this is prevented what is that teaching them?
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 12/10/19 08:32 PM

Again, lots of stuff going on, haven't even had time to come here as often.

I really screwed up. Last week (friday?) D13 was struggling and told me I loved other 3 sisters and not her. This has to do with her thinking they're all against their mom and on "my side".

She went outside as her mom arrived and I went to talk to my W to explain what is going on with her. I told her that D13 is "defending" her because she loves her and thinks her mom is lonely. I explained some of the things she's said, and made sure to tell her I'm not blaming her, and even told her I'm not recommending any actions from her part as I didn't know what to do, just wanted to let her know.

My W got defensive, that she hasn't done anything to get her like that, that her behavior is normal and all our kids have gone through those phases. I listened, but tried to make sure she knew I wasn't blaming her. She became inpatient and said she had a busy day and needed to go to the restroom. I wasn't happy and said "hey I just want to let you know how our daughter is doing".

W went inside the house, she started yelling at me and threw/pushed a chair. She came back and we continued the "conversation". I should have kept my mouth shut and just validated, but I made the mistake to again highlight that D13 has good intentions, that I know her mom didn't cause this, etc. I took time to explain how I thought she was doing this out of good intentions.

All of that resulted in my W saying "See, you don't listen and don't let me talk. We have a TOXIC ... or we had a ... TOXIC relationship". That's how she sees our 20 year marriage, and 29 years together. And I screwed up because instead of validating I engaged in this stupid argument and I feel like crap because of it.

This week [censored] ... I'm feeling really down. Court date is on Thursday, mediation on Friday ... and I feel like like desperation and depression is going to overwhelm me this week. I'm tired, I'm exhausted.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 12/10/19 08:38 PM

I spent the weekend with the kids, in Orlando. D16 had a dance activity there and I used my points to keep stay at a hotel Friday-Sunday with D5, D13 and her.

We had a good time, specially D5. In the meantime, W stayed home (usually goes away on these weekends) because D18 had school and didn't want hr to be by herself.

I was happy she was going to spend quality time with D18, she was going to go with her and D18's boyfriend to a concert on Sunday night.

When I come back, in the next morning, D18 tells me that my W hit her!!! Turns out D18, who is out of HS now, got a belly button piercing. I'm not super happy with that, but she already has several piercings and got 2 tattoos. (Ironically my W got 1 tattoo, and the kids tell me she told them she wants to get another one).

She slapped her on her belly button which hurt, and told her she wishes it gets infected! I just listened and validated, nothing much I can do about it. Haven't even talked to my W about that ... but I'm not happy about her aggressive behavior.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 12/11/19 11:58 AM

Today need to finish some forms and finish the parenting class which is online. Took off from work to catch up, first court visit tomorrow 😞
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 12/12/19 09:53 AM

Last night D16 asked to put "our song" on the radio. She cried on the way home, I tried to comfort her, but we just cried together. Broke my heart ...
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 12/12/19 01:06 PM

Kids saw me dressed up today, D13 asked me where I was going, told her an “office”. Today’s the 1st court appearance.

D18 started crying and told me she thinks her mom won’t talk to her again. Says she texted her yesterday to please not do this. Not sure if she didn’t respond to her or what, I just listened and told her everything will be ok.

Finished the online parenting class this morning. A lo of the techniques are what you guys promote here, specially validation (active listening). I found it ironic that the class teaches the skill that would save your marriage. At the end there was a video encouraging reconciliation ... recommending something called “discernment therapy/session”. But I think it’s too late.

God will help me survive this day ...
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 12/12/19 06:25 PM

A, sorry for what you are going through, court really brings home just how "real" this is. I wish you the best!

Originally Posted by Augusto
Kids saw me dressed up today, D13 asked me where I was going, told her an “office”. Today’s the 1st court appearance.


I think they're old enough to be told the truth. They are going to find out anyway.

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D18 started crying and told me she thinks her mom won’t talk to her again. Says she texted her yesterday to please not do this. Not sure if she didn’t respond to her or what, I just listened and told her everything will be ok.


Work on your validation. "I am sorry you are upset, would you like to talk about it? How does it make you feel?"

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At the end there was a video encouraging reconciliation ... recommending something called “discernment therapy/session”. But I think it’s too late.


I agree, I'm not saying there's no chance for recon, but not right now. The timing isn't right for your W.
Posted By: Augusto

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 12/12/19 10:50 PM

It was very difficult. My W was super nervous as well as I was, her L was inside the court room and I helped her get in, she didn’t realize when they called us.

Judge just asked a few questions, nothing to me. Was the marriage irreparable? She said yes. Would counseling help? She said no. It’s what she field so I’m not surprised, but it hurts .

She ... we cried ... some more outside and hugged each other. Told her it’ll be ok, that I’m not mad at her, that I want to make sure she’s ok. She told me she cared for me being ok too. That we’ll make sure kids are all fine. It was a nice human moment between both of us ...

Some of the girls have been texting me. I’ve been validating a lot ... they’re hurting and keep telling me they don’t want tbjsnto happen. I tell them it’ll be ok, but feel powerless not being able to do anything to save my family. Im devastated
Posted By: rooskers

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 01/08/20 07:17 PM

Augusto just checking in and wishing you a happy new year.
Posted By: CWarrior

Re: Running out of time ... one month left! (part 2) - 01/10/20 07:27 AM

Augusto, wow, the court appearance sounded real tough. Hope you are doing okay.
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