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Posted By: kbuenob Just had sex with WAS - 11/05/19 08:57 PM
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Ok, so last night I had sex with W.

I'm not sure if my pulling back has been working, or if she was just horny and needed a body. It's been around 3 weeks since we've even so much as kissed each other on the lips. There has been hello & goodbye hugs here and there but thats it. Steve mentioned to be careful if I suspect she's having an affair, but man it was hard to resist. Did i mention it's been 3 weeks? That's a long stretch considering our history of being really active with each other.

So I stayed at work late last night working on some projects I've been slacking on, and also trying to GAL and get back into the groove of being productive. I come home, and noticed her wearing her nice silky house dress, something that she hasn't worn for a while. I thought, hmm thats different. While she was on the couch watching TV, I also noticed she was exposing her butt and panties to me, yet another thing I haven't seen for a while.

Once we tucked our son in to bed, we did our routine of getting ready for bed ourselves. I went back out into the living room and started watching videos on my phone, while she was doing her own thing in the MBR. She texted me,"maybe you should come watch a show with me?" I told her,"ok after I watch whatever it was that I was watching" I go in the MBR, get in bed and she told me that she wants me. I told her I know, and that I could tell. She said her period is coming and has been feeling horny (sorry for i'm being too explicit). After about 2 seconds of some banter, we go at it. Needless to say it was amazing, and for that period of time I felt like I had my wife back. She was calling me babe, kissing passionately etc

Before we went to sleep, i made it a point to not smother her with affection or good night kisses and hugs. I just kept thinking,"She's a cat, if i do too much now, she's going to run away." Plus i didn't want her to feel like she stole all of my power with sex. So when we were ready for bed, I told her good night, she did the same and we both went to sleep.

In the morning, it was business as usual. Both of us making sure our S is ready for school etc. We left with a hug, but no kissing on the lips. Even though all i wanted to do was kiss her, I didnt force any of that, and made sure to leave on a strong note- good bye and have a great day.

Was i right to not pursue any affection afterwards? Are there any nuggets of info to be gleaned from this experience- or was it just straight up sex and that was it? I know enough already to not get my hopes up- but just need some advice on how i should act moving forward. Continue touch charging? maybe flirt with her a little more during our interactions? Is a spark of attraction for me coming back?

Thoughts?


Original Post
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/05/19 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by kbuenob
...last night I had sex with W.... but just need some advice on how i should act moving forward.


Just keep making positive changes to your behavior. If something is working, keep doing it. If something is not working, stop and try something different.


Remember that her behavior is not the measurement stick. Your behavior is. Were you needy? NO.


You will be traveling down several parallel paths for a while.

From this point forward, your job is to protect the relationship, in a non-needy way. Old you did not know this. The new you does.


My current lady has worked in the service industry as a bar-tender. I had to be comfortable with her interacting with other men, even her flirting with them. I was very observant. Keeping an eye out for red flags. You are in a similar circumstance. Be very aware that other men want your wife. How you respond is important. Controlling behavior is unattractive. Protecting behavior is attractive.

When I was married, I was ignorant. I allowed W to have some close male friends. I am sure at least one of these was inappropriate.


Right now it is important for you to keep challenging your current beliefs. Read as much as you can.


If you have another opportunity to have sex with W, I strongly suggest that you have some new "tricks" that pleasantly surprise her. Start doing research now. You have been with her a long time. She needs some excitement. She needs to be surprised by the new you.

Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/05/19 09:28 PM
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Was i right to not pursue any affection afterwards?


Yes, absolutely. My XW wanted to continue having sex after BD but it meant nothing at all, it was just physical gratification for her. Don't assume anything has changed.

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Are there any nuggets of info to be gleaned from this experience- or was it just straight up sex and that was it?


Probably just sex. That doesn't mean it's not a good sign, I would consider it a baby step. And as Michele says about baby steps, celebrate them internally but don't make a big production out of them externally. Just keep doing what you've been doing.

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but just need some advice on how i should act moving forward. Continue touch charging? maybe flirt with her a little more during our interactions? Is a spark of attraction for me coming back?


Perhaps a little. Just be careful not to break into pursuit mode.
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/05/19 10:25 PM
R2C, thanks as always

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Controlling behavior is unattractive. Protecting behavior is attractive.


What would you consider protecting behavior? Sometimes I need some of these ideas spelled out for me lol
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/05/19 10:27 PM
Ok, thank you for the advice AS!
Posted By: DaB35 Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/05/19 10:31 PM
This happened to me - about 3 weeks after 1st BD - we ended up being intimate 6 times in one week. She was then texting me all day, saying she was thinking about me etc. Unfortunately I took this to mean things were changing for the better. I was wrong - 3 weeks after that, NC suddenly then "I don't love you anymore."
Now I think it was just gratification for her.

I'd take it with a pinch of salt, don't read too much into it, but consider it a baby step. If things work, continue. If not, change tact.

Importantly, as AS says above, don't pursue as a result.
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/05/19 10:38 PM
Originally Posted by DaB35
This happened to me - about 3 weeks after 1st BD - we ended up being intimate 6 times in one week. She was then texting me all day, saying she was thinking about me etc. Unfortunately I took this to mean things were changing for the better. I was wrong


Did you get needy and pursue too much afterwards? What would you have done differently?
Posted By: DaB35 Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/05/19 10:46 PM
I should have stopped after the first time and started DBing properly. I didn't - I pursued, remained needy, thinking about her emotional/physical needs and not mine.

I should have set a boundary; something I just didn't do in the R generally, which I regret.
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/05/19 11:00 PM
Im sorry to hear DaB35

I should continue to play it cool. pull back. Treat her like a cat and let her come to me.

what would your boundary have looked like in this situation? I'm still trying to understand the idea of boundaries
Posted By: unchien Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/05/19 11:11 PM
The last time I had sex with my W was maybe the most passionate ever. It was also the last time.

My IC suggested she was testing whether or not she had romantic feelings for me anymore.

My point is, don't read too much into any single thing. Consistency is the only thing that carries weight.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/05/19 11:17 PM
Originally Posted by kbuenob
What would you consider protecting behavior?
Taking actions against threats.

For example, I am walking down the street with my lady after enjoying an evening at the night club. 6 drunk guys acting stupid are headed our way. I lead her across the street as soon as I see them. We take a little longer way to the car to make sure she is safe.

Walking through crowds, I guide her behind me and "make a path" for her to walk. My job is to make her FEEL safe.



Google this:
Why Do Women Want to Feel Protected By Their Man

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When a woman interacts with a guy and rejects him because he is nervous, insecure and self-doubting around her, it represents a challenge to him to fix his emotional issues and become stronger, or face the prospect of being alone for longer.


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a woman’s instinctive desire to feel protected by a man hasn’t gone away. It’s a hard-wired instinct and it is difficult to ignore for even the most independent of modern women.



Originally Posted by kbuenob
She also said that she's been in "blur" for the last 5 years and she can see very clearly now and knows that she doesn't want to be with me anymore. She said we have nothing in common and that I'm not sweet/romantic enough (which is something she complained about in the past). She said we don't view the world the same.
This is the biggest red flag. You have a lot of work to do.

DBing is relationship triage. Your past behavior got you here. You have to completely reinvent yourself. This is the biggest test of your life. Pass the test.
Posted By: DaB35 Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/05/19 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
You have to completely reinvent yourself. This is the biggest test of your life. Pass the test.


Such an encouraging three sentences, R2C. Thank you for this. I'll repeat it in my head over and over.
One for the Quotes thread methinks...
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/05/19 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by DaB35
Such an encouraging three sentences, R2C. Thank you for this. I'll repeat it in my head over and over.
One for the Quotes thread methinks...
I am sure it is in there someplace.


Dig around for "Sick twisted test of your manhood"...The rest of the quote is priceless.
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/05/19 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by unchien
My point is, don't read too much into any single thing. Consistency is the only thing that carries weight.


thank you, unchien
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/05/19 11:48 PM
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For example, I am walking down the street with my lady after enjoying an evening at the night club. 6 drunk guys acting stupid are headed our way. I lead her across the street as soon as I see them. We take a little longer way to the car to make sure she is safe.


I can definitely do this

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You have to completely reinvent yourself. This is the biggest test of your life. Pass the test.


Truly is and has been so far. I am strong, I know I can do this for myself. I have to.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/06/19 06:13 PM
Kbuenob,

I just wanted to drop in and say that I spit out my drink in laughter the other day when I read the thread title. Definitely caught my attention!

I like your attitude, keep it up!
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/06/19 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Kbuenob,

I just wanted to drop in and say that I spit out my drink in laughter the other day when I read the thread title. Definitely caught my attention!

I like your attitude, keep it up!


Wasn't sure if the title was too much, but then I said screw it and posted it anyway lol
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/06/19 10:59 PM
Yeah so I'm starting to think sex the other night for her was just a physical need. Nothing really changed much- it's been business as usual. that's what I was counting on though. I'm actually proud of myself for not pursuing any more affection from her.

BUT NOW I HAVE A QUESTION

Since she expressed her need for sex, can I not express the same?

If I wanted to be intimate with her, would it be wrong of me to make advances like she did to me? I know to play it cool if i get rejected, but would that be pursuing if i just wanted to have sex?
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/06/19 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by kbuenob
Wasn't sure if the title was too much, but then I said screw it and posted it anyway lol
Good job being decisive!
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/06/19 11:13 PM
Originally Posted by kbuenob
BUT NOW I HAVE A QUESTION

Since she expressed her need for sex, can I not express the same?
Right now, I highly recommend against it. Resist your urge to go to the cat to pet it.

A better tactic is to turn her on. Be catnip.


I think it is important to determine what you are dealing with. This is a good read:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2653328#Post2653328






Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/06/19 11:17 PM
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Right now, I highly recommend against it. Resist your urge to go to the cat to pet it.

A better tactic is to turn her on. Be catnip.


Agreed. I keep having to remind myself of the cat analogy!
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/06/19 11:27 PM

Read this thread frequently:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...ain=47467&Number=2057224#Post2057224
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/06/19 11:50 PM
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I think it is important to determine what you are dealing with. This is a good read:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2653328#Post2653328


Thank you, yes indeed a good read.

I'm not sure that my W is WW. She doesn't disrespect me in front of our son, or act disrespectful ie eye rolling, etc. She is actually quite cordial and nice while we're at home. She's still doing her share of the housework/cooking and is in constant contact with her mom and sister. So im not sure to categorize her as a WW, WAS, MLC etc. I'm leaning towards MLC. These are some things that have taken place since the BD this past August. I'm not 100% sure of an A, but I do suspect it.

- ILYBNILWY
- went out a handful of times and returned home very late (5-5:30am) without sharing her whereabouts
- Stopped wearing her ring
- Glued to her phone, quite secretive about it
- A tapering off of affection. After the BD, we would still hug and kiss goodnight, but i think she was doing that because she felt bad for me
- taking on more work
- Pretty much roommates with a kid together at this point (that has sex when she feels like it I guess lol)

Does it matter the category? I do like the tough love approach but am afraid that it might not work if she is not WW


Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 12:09 AM
Originally Posted by kbuenob

Does it matter the category?


Absolutely. I would deal with a cheater way different than someone who just lost attraction. I believe there is a lot of overlap, but dealing with infidelity requires different tactics.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 12:23 AM
Originally Posted by kbuenob
I'm not 100% sure of an A, but I do suspect it.


If there is, and you get proof, the way you respond is extremely important.

You should really understand the differences in how "Allen A" and "Robx" and "PuppyDogTails" and Coach busted their divorces. Allen A was way more "protective" of his relationship. These guys along with Sandi2 are very wise.
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 12:43 AM
I just don't know how to go about finding out the truth. I'm undecided about surveillance etc because, idk that just seems wrong to me. I wish I could tap into her cell phone but theres just no way to do that. I feel stuck.

I know that if the truth did come out that she IS having an affair, it would make it so much easier for me to let go of her...
Posted By: LH19 Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 12:49 AM
Based on what you wrote there is a 99% chance she is having at least an EA.
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 12:50 AM
Originally Posted by LH19
Based on what you wrote there is a 99% chance she is having at least an EA.


agree
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 12:51 AM
How messed up would it be if I just grabbed her phone from her while she was on it? That would be the only way for me to find out for sure (I think)
Posted By: LH19 Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 12:54 AM
Nah don’t give her the satisfaction. It will come out eventually anyway. Detach, GAL and work on your 180s.
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 01:55 AM
Originally Posted by LH19
Nah don’t give her the satisfaction. It will come out eventually anyway. Detach, GAL and work on your 180s.


You right LH19

On the other hand, I kinda sorta asked my son if he knew my W phone password and he does...not sure what to do with this power...
Posted By: JR45 Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 02:23 AM
Holy S#!+ kb! I just posted the same issue. I even asked my son the PW to her old phone (kids play games on it now) in case she didn’t clear it. Waiting for her to fall asleep before I start looking.
Brother, I feel your pain. Not knowing the truth is killing me and I can’t find a way to gather any proof because she has a company issued phone and computer. No phone records or access to e-mail. I’ve decided the only way is do do as you suggested and ask for her phone in a few days to check it. (I think she’s wiping it now...details in my thread). I know I can’t do that because if I do and find nothing, all progress is lost and I’m back behind the 8 ball and then I still won’t know for sure. I’m 100% stuck.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by kbuenob
How messed up would it be if I just grabbed her phone from her while she was on it? That would be the only way for me to find out for sure (I think)
You haven't read enough of PuppyDogTails posts. He would never advise that.
Posted By: LovingIt Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 03:00 AM
Originally Posted by kbuenob

...
I know that if the truth did come out that she IS having an affair, it would make it so much easier for me to let go of her...


I used to think the same, but it’s not as easy, black and white as you think. Maybe if you were dating someone for a couple of years and not as emotionally invested.

Just be prepared for the wave of emotions... hurt, anger, and confusion.
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 05:34 AM
we're definitely in the same boat my friend. not sure if i should do the deed tonight when she's asleep. kinda nervous about the whole thing. so crazy, 6 months ago, looking at my W phone would have been a non-issue...
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 05:35 AM
yes, i know just thinking about all the bad coming from that doesnt seem worth it
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 05:36 AM
Definitely not as easy as i think it would be. just seems like a logical thing- identify the problem and fix it. unfortunately we have feelings and emotions to deal with...
Im staring at my wife's phone now filled with lesbian texts. I had a gut feeling that this was happening with the girl that I suspected. I don't know what to do. Raise hell now? Im so hurt and angry
DO NOT raise hell now.

Give yourself some time for the emotions to pass, so you can process it, and figure out your next steps with the vets here.

I'm sure the betrayal hurts, but at least it's not another man?
im livid right now. I want to raise h3ll NOW
I cant go back to sleep. this is crazy right now. Our marriage is DONE
Go for a walk... I'd suggest drive too, but it may be dangerous.
Bro, whats the difference. Man/Woman. My W is a cheater, and now I feel like theres no chance for our M
I know how you feel right now, and don't blame you if you do raise hell.

However, having walked the path... I regretted every blow up / hell raise, and learned that I could have handled it better. I know you are spiraling in pain, and want to transmit that pain. It will not be effective communication right now, all she will hear is your anger.

You will probably feel this way all night and in the morning. I've stayed up all night, and waited till the morning to blow up first thing in the morning. You might not even be able to goto work tomorrow.

Usually takes 12+ hours for me to calm down a bit to have calm effective discussion.

It's not over, you are not done, and there's still a chance. Look at all the other people on here still.
I’m so sorry you found that kb. I completely understand the urge to go off and I know that’s exactly where my head would/will be in the same scenario. Listen to LovingIt though. You need to gather your thoughts and address this in a calm manner. You say the M is over, and I’ve always said the same thing if my W cheated, so I get it, but take some time to process before you ultimately make that decision. If you go at her now, you’ll drive her further away from you and she’ll help you solidify that decision by getting closer to the AP. Start reading. I know I haven’t really read up on how to deal with infidelity because I’ve been denying the possibility. Maybe start there and see how others have handled this sitch.
This is why I warn newcomers that likely there is an A. Because when you discover the truth it can derail you.

Nothing has changed from before you found this. Just keep DBing.
KB - I read a few of your threads last evening. First off I am sorry you found some upsetting texts . I’m curious exactly what you are considering “lesbian texts “ before you blow your lid . Is this a newer friend ? I only say this because if my H looked at my phone and saw messages to my BFF of 15 years if he didn’t know better he would may think the same thing . I mean we send I love u . I miss u texts frequent . I now live some distance away as she moved about 3 hours away . Before this we lived in same neighborhood and would see each other daily as we were both stay at home parents . We would grab coffee and have kids play . Or just take a late dinner to have now what I would call GAL. I am not close to my sister and neither is she and when I say she is my family she truly is . Few years ago she had too much to drink and confessed that she could live without many people even her H but not me . With our H’s there . Her mom died young and unexpected and really I held her together before she met her H. She also was my a huge support in my first D as that was a bad bad bad M. Thank god our Husbands have a sense over humor because we all laugh about it now .
I blew up. I tried to stay calm, but i woke her up and confronted her about it. She denied it the whole way through. They talk like they are in love. Baby, I love you, cant wait to be in your arms etc i know the difference, i'm not naive. they been secretly seeing each other. I admit i had so much to get off my chest that I just kept going with the questions and I was ANGRY. She kept denying and calling me psycho, insane, crazy etc. I haven't slept yet. I told her that we need to figure out whats best for the family and living situation because Im not going to live and support her while she's having an affair. I texted the oth

Are there any other sitchs like this out here. I feel like this might the only one. I truly believe my M is done. Especially since my W may be full blown lesbian.
So many emotions right now. Im exhausted but can't sleep. What happens now? I told her I want her out. She refuses to leave. Is she a lesbian now? Does she really love this girl? She's 11 years younger than my W. Is she really a lesbian? When do we tell our son? Do I show her proof of what I know? I took pictures of most of the texts and messages. I broken right now
Wow, you really should have gotten input here before confronting. Kb, impulsiveness will be your down fall. You're hurt and upset right now. Many are after discovering an affair. And then a few days or weeks go by and they decide they still want to fix things. So what you do and say now my have a huge impact on your such. Tread lightly. And yes, we've seen other ditches like this before. Sometimes the spouse was a repressed homosexual and finally couldn't take it anymore. Sometimes they are bisexual and were open to a relationship with the same sex because of what they were missing in their marriage. But it doesn't matter, cheating is cheating. Take some deep breaths and slow down. Running head long at 100 mph isn't going to help you right now.

(BRO HUGS)
Steve is right. If I had a nickel for every time a newbie said if I had proof I would be done and then they find proof and are not done I would be a millionaire.
Like Steve says, you really shouldn't have done that. Never make decisions based on emotions. I was about to many times in my sitch but fortunately I listened to Steve and others here and I'm glad i did. It's made me calmer and frankly a better person.

You want those close to you to see that you are cool, calm and confident. So when confronting her, do so in a calm but assertive way. What's done is done but please vent here rather than to her.
Originally Posted by BenB

You want those close to you to see that you are cool, calm and confident. So when confronting her, do so in a calm but assertive way. What's done is done but please vent here rather than to her.


Pure gold here.

When I found my W's public dating profile complete with picture online I was livid. When I went home that night I confronted her in a calm......confident.....slightly firm manner. What I said didn't matter nearly as much as how I said it, but the content was similar. I never demanded she do anything, just pointed out how anyone, including our daughter, could find it. Then I dropped it. The result? She was overly apologetic and immediately took it down. If I had gone in guns blazing it would have made her get defensive, dug in her heels, and convinced her that she needed the profile to find someone new more than ever.

kb, the likely outcome of this? This A will go even deeper undercover. She will cover her tracks like never before. Not sure how you got access to her phone but likely she will lock it down even tighter than it already had been.
Already I feel remorseful for confronting her. I calmed down and just started to cry uncontrollably. Then tried to embrace her and ask her if she really loves this other woman very calmly. Now she's just really pissed as she is getting ready for work. I just wanted to talk to her about whats going on and what her intentions are. What were her plans for this extra marital relationship? My world is upside down guys
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kb, the likely outcome of this? This A will go even deeper undercover. She will cover her tracks like never before. Not sure how you got access to her phone but likely she will lock it down even tighter than it already had been.


Steve, in that case I think I should initiate the D. I don't see any light at the end of this tunnel. I can't see my self DB'ing my way out of this. How can I compete with the OW? I don't even know if my W is able to have any attraction to me now that I know what I know.
Oh boy ! Right now re-group yourself . You are stronger than you know . Do not worry about her . Do not try and embrace her or have any relationship talks .

Detach . Just leaver her alone . Make some plans to GAL this weekend .

Take some time to process everything . No rush to the big D.

You are not going to compete with OW . Be the best KB for you not her .
So many emotions right now. I can't deal. Hard to not worry about her now that I know the truth. I thought it would be different. It's hitting me harder now that I know.
kb, just take some time. Focus on you!! Smothering her with R talks is the exact opposite of what you should be doing. Go out and GAL, like a madman. Keep working you (180s). And work on detachment. DBing isn't about DBing your way out of this. It is about saving yourself. Save yourself.
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kb, just take some time. Focus on you!! Smothering her with R talks is the exact opposite of what you should be doing. Go out and GAL, like a madman. Keep working you (180s). And work on detachment. DBing isn't about DBing your way out of this. It is about saving yourself. Save yourself.


thank you Steve. I feel comfort when you guys respond. makes me feel less alone. but this is really hard for me. I've never felt this kind of pain before.
I've been there. Not sure if you read my sitch. One Friday night my wife was in the bathroom for 3 hours. I had already discovered and confronted her about her EA. I figured she was in there sending nude photos to him. Turns out I was right as I found the picture a few weeks later. So get it. The more I learned to control my reaction the better my sitch got.

DB for you... Not her.
Steve I haven't read all of your sitch yet. Understood that DB is for me...just hard to get out of wanting my W back. Have you and your W reconciled? If not, are you still longing for her? Or are you completely over her?
We have been Ring and Piecing for a year and a half. But I literally had to let her go to get her back. DBing is counter-intuitive, but having been through it twice, it is the only way you have a chance of reconciling. Pursuit and pressure push WASs right out the door. In both my sitches I got her back by letting her go.
Originally Posted by Steve85
We have been Ring and Piecing for a year and a half. But I literally had to let her go to get her back. DBing is counter-intuitive, but having been through it twice, it is the only way you have a chance of reconciling. Pursuit and pressure push WASs right out the door. In both my sitches I got her back by letting her go.


Steve, I don't know what to do. Does letting her go mean to separate from her? Or do I just give her space while she eats her cake? Please help im desperate
kbuenob -

giving her space doesn't mean allowing her to eat cake. you can enforce your boundaries. it could mean that you stop providing things emotionally / physically that a H would provide for her. it doesn't have to be a physical separation, so you can do it in house. some people may suggest moving her out of the MBR.

given that you just had the initial confrontation, expect that you will have more confrontations / discussions in the near future (today, tomorrow). both of you will be saying and acting out of extreme emotions, so anticipate that. she is probably spiraling right now with anger also. if you do interact more today, definitely don't make things worse by acting angry or desperate. allow some time to pass before you can actually have constructive conversation.


full disclosure - I'm a newbie on boundaries, etc... so listen to the other vets. I'm much more experienced in the patterns of emotions, blow ups, and aftermath.
KB, so now you know A) your wife is a liar and B) your wife is a cheater. Here's my question to you- what can you possibly hope to gain by having any kind of discussion with a lying cheater? No matter how blatant the evidence, a lying cheater is going to deny and gaslight (if you're not familiar with the term then please Google it and read, because you will be dealing with it a LOT in the coming months). Your emotions are all over the place and you really can't function properly until they settle down, which is going to take some time. So give yourself time. DO NOT try to talk to her for a while, at least a week, about ANYTHING. I would suggest shutting down ALL conversations with her until your emotions settle down. No dinners together, no going out, no talking about the weather, NOTHING. Once your emotions neutralize then you can start to think about where to go from here. Until then double down on getting out and GALing.
Loving It is right. Learn to be detached. The goal is to get to a place emotionally where she can come to you and say "Last night I had a hot lesbian orgy with 6 other women." And you go, "oh, okay. Hey where did I put the remote?"

Detachment is about being happy, fulfilled, pleased internally, regardless of her crazy. Work on it. It is freeing. And it may have the side benefit of having a huge effect on her in a positive way.
Threads merged - please stick to one thread until it reaches 100 posts

Thank you
Originally Posted by AnotherStander

...
No matter how blatant the evidence, a lying cheater is going to deny and gaslight (if you're not familiar with the term then please Google it and read, because you will be dealing with it a LOT in the coming months).
...


+1... expect gaslighting. I've been gaslighted more than my share by WW, and never realized the term until recently when I started to learn about relationship patterns and dynamics.

I used to be very confrontational every time, she would blatantly deny / lie to my face, until I prove to her with actual evidence. Then she just learns to cover her tracks until she gets lazy and messes up.

So listen to the vets here about not disclosing how you know, just that you know.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
KB, so now you know A) your wife is a liar and B) your wife is a cheater. Here's my question to you- what can you possibly hope to gain by having any kind of discussion with a lying cheater? No matter how blatant the evidence, a lying cheater is going to deny and gaslight (if you're not familiar with the term then please Google it and read, because you will be dealing with it a LOT in the coming months). Your emotions are all over the place and you really can't function properly until they settle down, which is going to take some time. So give yourself time. DO NOT try to talk to her for a while, at least a week, about ANYTHING. I would suggest shutting down ALL conversations with her until your emotions settle down. No dinners together, no going out, no talking about the weather, NOTHING. Once your emotions neutralize then you can start to think about where to go from here. Until then double down on getting out and GALing.


AS is very wise. If you only take one piece of advise, what I highlighted is it. DO NOT ENGAGE IN CONVERSATION. LISTEN if needed.

If you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO SAY ANYTHING, say this:
"I have some decisions to make" and walk away.

I personally would CALMLY and RESPECTFULLY move all of her personal belongings out of the MASTER BEDROOM and put them in the guest room RIGHT NOW.
Originally Posted by LovingIt
Originally Posted by AnotherStander

...
No matter how blatant the evidence, a lying cheater is going to deny and gaslight (if you're not familiar with the term then please Google it and read, because you will be dealing with it a LOT in the coming months).
...


+1... expect gaslighting. I've been gaslighted more than my share by WW, and never realized the term until recently when I started to learn about relationship patterns and dynamics.

I used to be very confrontational every time, she would blatantly deny / lie to my face, until I prove to her with actual evidence. Then she just learns to cover her tracks until she gets lazy and messes up.

So listen to the vets here about not disclosing how you know, just that you know.



And the classic "we're just friends!" Heard this despite evidence nude photos were exchanged. They will deny deny deny.
Quote
I personally would CALMLY and RESPECTFULLY move all of her personal belongings out of the MASTER BEDROOM and put them in the guest room RIGHT NOW.


I'm nervous about doing this, I know this will cause a huge ruckus when she gats back from work tonight. What can i hope to achieve by doing this?
Originally Posted by kbuenob
Quote
I personally would CALMLY and RESPECTFULLY move all of her personal belongings out of the MASTER BEDROOM and put them in the guest room RIGHT NOW.


I'm nervous about doing this, I know this will cause a huge ruckus when she gats back from work tonight. What can i hope to achieve by doing this?


Take back respect.
Originally Posted by Steve85
Loving It is right. Learn to be detached. The goal is to get to a place emotionally where she can come to you and say "Last night I had a hot lesbian orgy with 6 other women." And you go, "oh, okay. Hey where did I put the remote?"

Detachment is about being happy, fulfilled, pleased internally, regardless of her crazy. Work on it. It is freeing. And it may have the side benefit of having a huge effect on her in a positive way.


This seems so far from reach Steve. Am I basically just telling myself, in my mind, that i dont give an F about this woman any more? I feel like thats the only way to approach detaching
Originally Posted by Steve85
Take back respect.


I see
Originally Posted by kbuenob
What can i hope to achieve by doing this?

Her poor choices have consequences.


You are setting a boundary. You have no intention on sharing your wife with someone else. She has disrespected you. You need time and space to decide what to do.


Do not get into any drama. DO NOT SHOW YOUR EMOTIONS.

You are taking back your b@lls.





Originally Posted by kbuenob
Originally Posted by Steve85
Loving It is right. Learn to be detached. The goal is to get to a place emotionally where she can come to you and say "Last night I had a hot lesbian orgy with 6 other women." And you go, "oh, okay. Hey where did I put the remote?"

Detachment is about being happy, fulfilled, pleased internally, regardless of her crazy. Work on it. It is freeing. And it may have the side benefit of having a huge effect on her in a positive way.


This seems so far from reach Steve. Am I basically just telling myself, in my mind, that i dont give an F about this woman any more? I feel like thats the only way to approach detaching


No, absolutely not. This is why I implore for newcomers to study loving detachment. Cadet's links are a great starting point. Google "self-differentiation" in marriage.

kb, here is the problem: looking to your W for the source of happiness is bad for both of you. First it is bad for you because we live in an imperfect world. Where people lie, cheat, leave, oh and even die. So if your happiness is unhealthily tied to one person, if they go away for whatever reason then you have no hope at a happy productive life. Secondly, it is grossly unfair to put that on another person. "Hey, W, you are responsible for not only your own happiness, but mine as well!" That is why self-differentiation is vitally important. Because that kind of pressure to make someone else happy will cause most people to eventually crack.

Being emotionally detached doesn't mean you don't care about her. It means you are internally fulfilled, happy, confident no matter what her words or actions are. If they are positive towards that fulfillment, happiness, and confidence, then great! If not, well that is ok too because your fulfillment, happiness and confidence comes from within.

In fact, fulfillment, happiness and confidence that rely on outside factors (like another person) aren't real to begin with,

This is why IC is not only important....it is a necessity!!
Originally Posted by kbuenob
Am I basically just telling myself, in my mind, that i dont give an F about this woman any more?
No. You care deeply for this person. You just don't want to be with someone who does not want to be exclusively with you."

This is your moral code. (or at least mine, you are free to take it as yours if you choose).


You do not want to control her. She is free to do what she wants.



If she wants to be with you, you will know. she will be begging you for a second chance. Be ready for Crocodile tears.

This is not a quick processes. Take as long as you want to decide what to do. Run every choice past us (if you want) before making decision. Collectively, we all have seen or experienced almost everything that will most likely happen.
Just to set expectations straight, there's no magic silver bullet here... it will be a roller coaster of events and emotions, and no guarantee of outcome even if you do everything perfect.

There are certain things you can avoid doing immediately like anger, crying, pleading, pursuing to push them away further.


Btw, do you actually know this OW? Do you know if she didn't disguise the name under a female's name so she can more easily claim it as a "friend" if she was caught? I guess maybe it doesn't matter to you as much.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
DO NOT try to talk to her for a while, at least a week, about ANYTHING. I would suggest shutting down ALL conversations with her until your emotions settle down. No dinners together, no going out, no talking about the weather, NOTHING. Once your emotions neutralize then you can start to think about where to go from here. Until then double down on getting out and GALing.


This will be hard to do considering we have our 12S, we will be communicating about school stuff, dinner, etc. I will implement not saying anything to her the best I can
Quote
Being emotionally detached doesn't mean you don't care about her. It means you are internally fulfilled, happy, confident no matter what her words or actions are. If they are positive towards that fulfillment, happiness, and confidence, then great! If not, well that is ok too because your fulfillment, happiness and confidence comes from within.


i desperately need to get to this point. I thought I was detaching, but It wasn't true detachment.
Quote
This is not a quick processes. Take as long as you want to decide what to do. Run every choice past us (if you want) before making decision. Collectively, we all have seen or experienced almost everything that will most likely happen.


Thank you, i will be needing you guys more than ever now
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by kbuenob
What can i hope to achieve by doing this?

Her poor choices have consequences.


You are setting a boundary. You have no intention on sharing your wife with someone else. She has disrespected you. You need time and space to decide what to do.


Do not get into any drama. DO NOT SHOW YOUR EMOTIONS.

You are taking back your b@lls.



When I move her stuff today, and she comes home and flips out, what should my response be? What do i say to my son when he asks why's mama's stuff in the other room?
Originally Posted by LovingIt
Just to set expectations straight, there's no magic silver bullet here... it will be a roller coaster of events and emotions, and no guarantee of outcome even if you do everything perfect.

There are certain things you can avoid doing immediately like anger, crying, pleading, pursuing to push them away further.


Btw, do you actually know this OW? Do you know if she didn't disguise the name under a female's name so she can more easily claim it as a "friend" if she was caught? I guess maybe it doesn't matter to you as much.


I really screwed my progress for reacting the way i did this morning. I notice she took her wedding ring and my gut is telling me she's going to sell it to try to make money so she can move out, stay somewhere else etc.

Yes, I've met the OW once before. It is definitely her.
Okay I know you are devastated by this. What’s done is already done but there is a great phrase that says when you find yourself in a hole, first STOP DIGGING. No action is an action. You’ve got to get control of yourself. Doing nothing for a few days will not hurt you or set you back. However, the wrong action could. Stop digging.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
KB, so now you know A) your wife is a liar and B) your wife is a cheater. Here's my question to you- what can you possibly hope to gain by having any kind of discussion with a lying cheater? No matter how blatant the evidence, a lying cheater is going to deny and gaslight (if you're not familiar with the term then please Google it and read, because you will be dealing with it a LOT in the coming months). Your emotions are all over the place and you really can't function properly until they settle down, which is going to take some time. So give yourself time. DO NOT try to talk to her for a while, at least a week, about ANYTHING. I would suggest shutting down ALL conversations with her until your emotions settle down. No dinners together, no going out, no talking about the weather, NOTHING. Once your emotions neutralize then you can start to think about where to go from here. Until then double down on getting out and GALing.


AS is very wise. If you only take one piece of advise, what I highlighted is it. DO NOT ENGAGE IN CONVERSATION. LISTEN if needed.

If you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO SAY ANYTHING, say this:
"I have some decisions to make" and walk away.

I personally would CALMLY and RESPECTFULLY move all of her personal belongings out of the MASTER BEDROOM and put them in the guest room RIGHT NOW.

I'm quoting R2C who quoted AS. Do not talk to her period. Now is not the time. Take some time to yourself for the next week.
Originally Posted by kbuenob
Originally Posted by LovingIt
Just to set expectations straight, there's no magic silver bullet here... it will be a roller coaster of events and emotions, and no guarantee of outcome even if you do everything perfect.

There are certain things you can avoid doing immediately like anger, crying, pleading, pursuing to push them away further.


Btw, do you actually know this OW? Do you know if she didn't disguise the name under a female's name so she can more easily claim it as a "friend" if she was caught? I guess maybe it doesn't matter to you as much.


I really screwed my progress for reacting the way i did this morning. I notice she took her wedding ring and my gut is telling me she's going to sell it to try to make money so she can move out, stay somewhere else etc.

Yes, I've met the OW once before. It is definitely her.

Document this if it happens. Watch your accounts.
This is an example of why waiting is better. You should have been prepared with knowledge before you confronted. Too late for this time. Remember this for future events.

Originally Posted by kbuenob
When I move her stuff today, and she comes home and flips out, what should my response be?


Be prepared for the worst, and you can handle the rest.

Less words is always a good choice.
H:"I think this is best"
or
H"I need time alone to make some important decisions"



Set boundaries.
"If you continue to yell, I will be done listening"

Really, really really really limit your words. Listen. Control your actions. Limit the amount of interactions. If she becomes irrational, record with phone.



Quote
What do i say to my son when he asks why's mama's stuff in the other room?

Son"why's mama's stuff in the other room?"
Dad"Your mom and I are dealing with some adult stuff. We will talk to you about it later"

Read this post and the one after it
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2041795#Post2041795

Read these:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2045336#Post2045336

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2050041#Post2050041

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2051316#Post2051316


RobX words are very wise.
Thank you for the advice so far everyone.

I went ahead and moved most of her stuff in the other room. pretty sure she's going to flip
Thank you R2C. It really means a lot to me that you all care enough to help me. I am grateful for you
Hi KBueno,

It's completely understandable you rushed the confrontation and didn't end things. This is common.

Strive to be uncommon. Hold-off on expressing your feelings just now. You haven't had enough time to process them. If she talks, it's okay to listen and validate. She may want you to respond emotionally--don't take the bait. It's okay for her to feel upset and express that, but enforce boundaries (e.g., walk away.. with your son, if-needed) if she goes heavy on yelling, name-calling, physical violence, etc.

Originally Posted by KBueno
She said her period is coming and has been feeling horny (sorry for i'm being too explicit). After about 2 seconds of some banter, we go at it. Needless to say it was amazing, and for that period of time I felt like I had my wife back. She was calling me babe, kissing passionately etc

Your concerns about her never having interest in men, or totally losing interest don't seem justified based on what you've shared. It's more likely she's bisexual. I have a close bisexual friend who prefers long, monogamous relationships. She's often misidentified as heterosexual or homosexual depending on her partner. Interestingly, she tends to switch genders each new relationship.

Good advise:

Originally Posted by AllenA
Do NOT talk about your marriage with her right now... give her space to process you challenging her affair... Do NOT talk about your feelings right now. Do NOT talk to her right now about anything except your kids (if any)...Do not trust her.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by AllenA

Do NOT believe they will stop communicating.
IGNORE what your wife is saying right now. she has an addiction
IGNORE your wife's THREATS
IGNORE your wife's TANTRUMS
Do NOT ARGUE with your wife right now... just sidestep it like you would sidestep arguing with a child... you don't argue with your kids, you set a boundary and END the convo.

This OM has been sneaking around with your WIFE, do NOT TRUST HIM...

Your wife is just throwing a fit because you ruined her FUN... do NOT cave... stand up for yourself and just hold fast... do NOT argue with her.. she will BAIT you into a fight... do NOT fight her...



Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by AllenA

Marriage is about trust yes, but its ALSO about RESPECT.

a. Trust your wife to remain faithful.
b. Respect your husband enough not to socialize in secret with obnoxious alcoholics.

When B is ignored, you have to let A go to... sorry... its basic mathematics.

When respect to YOU goes out the window, TRUSTING her has to go out the window too...

This isn't the end of your marriage sir, but you have got to get on DAMAGE CONTROL -- NOW
Guys im really fighting the urge to do a couple of things:

- Let W family know about the affair. Im close with her dad and im afraid she's going to flip it and blame everything on me. And make me look like the bad guy. i'm pretty sure she has done that with my MIL and SIL. Pretty sure they hate me now. It's sad because I love my W family

- Let OW know that I've been intimate with my W. If my W loved the OW so much, why did she want to have S with me the other night?

I failed to mention that I attempted to call and texted the OW during the confrontation. That was probably a no-no.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by kbuenob
Thank you for the advice so far everyone.

I went ahead and moved most of her stuff in the other room. pretty sure she's going to flip
Stay calm. Show her that you can calmly handle her emotions. Let her emotions control her. You control your emotions.
Quote
Your concerns about her never having interest in men, or totally losing interest don't seem justified based on what you've shared. It's more likely she's bisexual. I have a close bisexual friend who prefers long, monogamous relationships. She's often misidentified as heterosexual or homosexual depending on her partner. Interestingly, she tends to switch genders each new relationship.


Thats my feeling as well. They started as friends, and they got closer and ended up starting the affair
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by kbuenob


- Let W family know about the affair. Im close with her dad and im afraid she's going to flip it and blame everything on me. And make me look like the bad guy. i'm pretty sure she has done that with my MIL and SIL. Pretty sure they hate me now. It's sad because I love my W family

MWD advises against exposure. You really don't have time to do all the research to make the best decision in the area. There are good ways and bad ways to do this.

Originally Posted by kbuenob

- Let OW know that I've been intimate with my W.
Again, there is a better way.


You should be in PROTECTION mode.

Protect yourself. Protect your son. Protect you family.

Emotional, financial, physical.....
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 09:31 PM
Ok, thank you R2C
Posted By: Traveler Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 09:38 PM
Originally Posted by kbueno
Guys im really fighting the urge to do a couple of things:

If you decide to expose, do it a week from now when you've researched the pros/cons. Today your goal is to not lash our, argue, R talk, question, etc. You took one really big action already. wink
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by AllenA

STOP telling her "separation"... She doesn't want separation she wants an AFFAIR.

You need to fix your terminology big time.

This isn't about her separating ok?
Its about her choosing

a. An affair rather than
b. Her family
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 09:57 PM

Good luck tonight.


Stay calm. Walk away as needed.
Posted By: kbuenob Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 10:11 PM
Do I apologize for lashing out at her during the confrontation? I know it sounds crazy but I am feeling quite a bit of guilt because of some things that I said.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 10:16 PM
Originally Posted by kbuenob
Do I apologize for lashing out at her during the confrontation? I know it sounds crazy but I am feeling quite a bit of guilt because of some things that I said.

NO! Stay calm. Walk away as needed.

Originally Posted by "AnotherStander"
DO NOT try to talk to her for a while, at least a week, about ANYTHING. I would suggest shutting down ALL conversations with her until your emotions settle

Originally Posted by "Ready2Change"
DO NOT ENGAGE IN CONVERSATION. LISTEN if needed.

Originally Posted by "CWarrior"
Hold-off on expressing your feelings just now. You haven't had enough time to process them. If she talks, it's okay to listen and validate.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 10:23 PM
Teaching moment for LBS.

Earlier K you said you were done if you found out there was an A you found out there was an A and you are not done. This is why it is sometimes hard to give advice on confronting.

Now fear is kicking in and you want to apologize to W for the way you handled the confrontation. This shows weakness and the WW will take full advantage.

It is very important for the LBS to show strength once A as exposed. Showing weakness will put you into to limbo land with lots of cake on top.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by kbuenob
lashing out at her during ... some things that I said.
All depends on what you mean by lashing out and what you said.

Today is not the day to apologize. Today is controlling your emotions and your actions.

You have big decisions to make. Take time to process everything. Do not make emotional decisions. Do not make instant decisions.
Posted By: job Re: Just had sex with WAS - 11/07/19 10:30 PM
Please start a new thread and link the threads together.
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