https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2868021&page=11Married 28 years, 3 teenagers
He moved out 7 months ago
Both got new places to live 3 weeks ago.
I've been NC for 3 months. Sometimes I want to give up because changing is too hard (I'm the reason he left). I'm not tired or anything, I'm not in limbo and most of the time I feel fine. I've changed just enough to get by. If he came back he'd just leave again because what I've done isn't enough. I come here looking for that push to not give up, to have hope while detaching, while moving on, etc. What I want is to have the mind set of if I give up I'm guaranteeing I won't ever reconcile.
I work in a small(ish) office of women. Most of the woman initiated divorces (for good reasons I might add) but some were left. 67% of the husbands that left came back. None of the women (they'd moved on) took them back but still.
I know all this stuff I'm just needy. lol
We all give advice based on our own perspective. Quite a few of the old timers here give hope because they've either experienced it or seen it. I've been on boards where people didn't like me (divorce) and I got lynched. I'd hear I didn't deserve another chance. Some though were kind and said they'd be inclined to give someone like me another chance if I worked hard enough over a long period of time.
In real life it depends on who I'm talking to. Some women say "they (men) always come back" because that was their experience. Other women say "give up" because when they left they were done. My boss, a man, has hope for me (he knows my WAH).
kas,
The changes you make are for you, not to bring your h back. The changes you make have to become permanent and you have to be happy w/them.
You have to remember...no matter what you change and/or do, it will never be enough for him at the moment. You could say the sky is purple and he would say it is pink. He's just not a happy camper and until he comes to realize that happiness comes from within, he'll remain an unhappy camper looking for that pot of gold.
Continue detaching, make a list of the things that you've put on the back burner for quite some time and do them one by one. Pick up some new hobbies, take a day trip, weekend trip or a trip just to get away for a bit. This is your time to rediscover the kas you were before marrying him.
No matter if he returns, you and your h will not be the same people because life has stepped in changed the way you both have grown during this time. The marriage would be a new one for both of you.
You will know what you want to do when the time is right. Don't base your decision on what has happened in your office.
I've also read lots of WAS's actual stories (other boards) and time and time again they say they want the LBS to change for themselves. I see their point if you change for someone else the chances of it being permanent are slim.
Beyond not lasting, if you silently change for someone else, there's a higher chance of resentment. You run the danger of a covert contract, something NMMNG advocates frequently warn about. If your marriage is failing because you rarely listen and don't keep the house up to their standards--fix the listening. Pick the change that would be a positive one in your life that you'd want to make regardless of whether they return to your life or not. You'll resent keeping the house up to their standards if they don't decide to return.
(If they do return, you can always work out an explicit contract where they get more of what they want--e.g., house to their standards--in return for them putting in more of that effort or doing things for you!)
You have to remember...no matter what you change and/or do, it will never be enough for him at the moment.
This I get.
He's just not a happy camper and until he comes to realize that happiness comes from within, he'll remain an unhappy camper looking for that pot of gold.
Get this too. We used to have these conversations that went nowhere because he was convinced that he'd be happy if he were more successful. He got passed over yet again for a promotion and left a couple of months later.
This is your time to rediscover the kas you were before marrying him.
I remember who I was and I miss that person. Not all of it obviously.
No matter if he returns, you and your h will not be the same people because life has stepped in changed the way you both have grown during this time. The marriage would be a new one for both of you.
My kids say both of us are unrecognizable. They miss the old him and like the new me. He hasn't grown (yet) but it's only been 7 months.
You will know what you want to do when the time is right. Don't base your decision on what has happened in your office.
I did for a while but I've pretty much stopped talking about it now. My boss asks because he's bored. lol
Beyond not lasting, if you silently change for someone else, there's a higher chance of resentment. You run the danger of a covert contract, something NMMNG advocates frequently warn about. If your marriage is failing because you rarely listen and don't keep the house up to their standards--fix the listening. Pick the change that would be a positive one in your life that you'd want to make regardless of whether they return to your life or not.
Yes I made these mistakes however I did learn because he's not here. Any change I make whether it's for him or not is for me because he's not here. Did you follow that? lol
Let me give you an example and you already heard it. I couldn't be alone so right after WAH left I started talking to OM. If WAH found out about it my chances to reconcile would go to zero. Do you have any idea how hard it was to let that guy go? He walked away first but I knew he'd be back (he kept coming back). I deleted and blocked all of his info. I then met another guy before realizing I had a HUGE problem. I stopped for WAH but it ended up being for me. I'm VERY happy not needing a man right now.
Another example yes I kept the house spotless after he left but his actual complaint was something else entirely. That complaint has not been fixed btw.
Hope gets me going and keeps me going for a few months but then it evolves. I need the hope as a starter, a push, an inspiration and if I stick to it real change happens and it's for me then.
The actual complaint was my neediness. I wanted attention, couldn't be alone so when WAH left I just found a band aid aka another man. I didn't fix the problem.
On the housework the actual complaint was me not helping him enough. I'm an overachiever so at one time my house was clean, I cooked great meals, baked, hosted play dates and was room mother/PTO board member. I fell into a deep depression some years back and never fully recovered. <should probably do some soul searching on this>
I'm fortunate in that I get to be NC (it really does help) with WAH and fortunate to have 2 of my kids with me full time. Yes I will email him if there is something he needs to know.
I'm doing okay considering I lost my best friend of 30 years. I post here mostly as a journal and if I get responses then that's even better.
He won’t come back for me. He will only come back if his new life doesn’t work out and even then it’s iffy.
On the housework the actual complaint was me not helping him enough. I'm an overachiever so at one time my house was clean, I cooked great meals, baked, hosted play dates and was room mother/PTO board member. I fell into a deep depression some years back and never fully recovered. <should probably do some soul searching on this>
Maybe at least some of your codependent tendencies stem from perfectionism, too? It sounds like you flipped from Martha Stewart Housekeeping into.. ugh.. is that another load of dishes?! I wonder if you also struggle with self-compassionate when you make errors--like leaving dishes out causing the ants to visit.
I'm doing okay considering I lost my best friend of 30 years.
Definitely! 30 years is a long, long relationship to adjust to losing.
Kas, Happy Halloween! Hope your week is busy and good.
Maybe at least some of your codependent tendencies stem from perfectionism, too? It sounds like you flipped from Martha Stewart Housekeeping into.. ugh.. is that another load of dishes?! I wonder if you also struggle with self-compassionate when you make errors--like leaving dishes out causing the ants to visit.
I self sabotage. Bad. I'd make the highest grade in the class to failing the next one. I got promoted quickly, procrastinate, then change jobs. Go from Martha Stewart to not doing the dishes. Cook gourmet meals, make everything from scratch and then I struggle opening a jar of ragu.
There is a woman at work that I have bonded with because we are so alike. We are both driven, accomplished and great but inside those thoughts from our terrible childhoods haunt us. We are both so good at what we do, people look up to us and I think if either of us could learn to appreciate and love our own abilities our lives would be so much more than we ever imagined.
I've been in and out of therapy for 20 years. My healing was limited due to being in a codependent relationship and I needed medication. I knew when WAH moved us (a month ago) that he was done maybe not forever but long enough for me to get over him. I'm in pain again. Not as bad as when he first left but still. Here's the interesting part the pain isn't about HIM it's about me. This is the pain I've been running from my entire adult life.
More to come....D17 has a friend over and they want to watch tv with me.
I've felt this pain before even when I was with WAH. My work has suffered since he left but that isn't new either. The only NEW thing is that no one is here to save me. I have external locus of control. When I'm in pain, stressed, alone, I feel powerless so I look outside myself for solutions and when there is none I get sad.
I'm guessing the only way to fix this is with effort over time. Two days this week I pushed myself to work despite having that feeling of wanting someone to fix my life for me. I crashed after 2 days. Couldn't make it stick. The weekends are hard. My kids are busy and parts of this house make me sad.
This part needs its own post. I went to my therapy support group this week and despite how daunting my path seems I felt light years away from the other people. There are the women who still need men for validation. One admitted to having sex with a man she doesn't even like. She looked at me and asked what I thought. I calmly said if it helps then I see no problem with it. She's not ready to give up men and I know that nothing I say will change that. I knew what she needed was validation. I understand where she is and the decision to change is hers to make not mine.
Then omg there was this whole conversation about essential oils, baths, herbal teas, etc. which are great and all but they solve nothing. I've been there too. It was one of WAH's complaints about me as he walked out the door. He was right and I see it now. Healing isn't sipping on a tea (I wish). Nope its hard, its painful, and its no fun whatsoever.
I said nothing as they swapped their favorite ways to distract from the pain. My thought is I want to END the pain not put band aids on it. Pain as in childhood wounds.
I'm guessing the only way to fix this is with effort over time. Two days this week I pushed myself to work despite having that feeling of wanting someone to fix my life for me. I crashed after 2 days. Couldn't make it stick. The weekends are hard. My kids are busy and parts of this house make me sad.
Hi Kas,
I just wanted to comment and say that I too find the weekends hard. I was supposed to work on some projects but couldn't bring myself to do them. the house was so quiet and all i kept thinking about was my W. I'm new to this and i'm finding out that a quiet house is no good when my mind is racing. But I need to keep busy. Browsing this forum helps a ton, but it's also a constant reminder of the situation that i'm in
Journal post of my circular thoughts. I had hope until I moved but if he came back he'd just leave again. I don't think he's happy but coming back won't make him happy either I want to give up but if I do he for sure won't come back and I will likely lose my kids as well. This a huge opportunity for growth and healing but it's hard. If I don't do it I will spend the rest of my life wondering what could have been. Remind me that this is hard. I think that the part where it's hard means it's impossible.
K,
What does giving up mean to you?
K,
What does giving up mean to you?
It means doing exactly what everyone expects me to do. Give up on life by giving in to depression. For the record I’m not clinically depressed it’s situational. After 30 years he left 7 months ago. If I give up I blow any chances of reconciling years down the road and I lose my kids. I know it means nothing but he sent a second “happy” in a month via S19. If I truly mean nothing he would have tossed it in the garbage before he gave it to me.
He isn’t happy and if I can get better (a lot better) I have a very small chance he will try again in a few years if that’s what I want. The catch is I can’t give up but dang giving up is way easier than changing.
I read everything and therefore I know what to do. Stop chasing (NC in my sitch), GAL and be patient.
I know that I need to GAL for me but I don't know how. The closest I can even remotely come is doing this for my kids. If I fail I will lose them. I don't want to lose them.
I know that I need to GAL for me but I don't know how. The closest I can even remotely come is doing this for my kids. If I fail I will lose them. I don't want to lose them.
I currently have two types of GAL activity: (1) Mindless fun, such as playing a video game my son enjoys too for 10-15 minutes/day and (2) Activities that align with my goals such as seeing the top 100 movies in a particular subgenre or getting my physical fitness up enough to lead certain expeditions I'm excited about. I still struggle with GAL, so take this with a grain of salt. It ain't easy when you're just getting started!
There are people that start (and complete) the divorce process in a timely manner. The majority of this group wanted out for years or there is a 3rd party. The rest for one reason or another aren't willing or able to do anything permanent. This group will end up reconciling or divorcing within 2-3 years.
My WAH was in the first category until he realized it wasn't going to go like he thought it would. His theoretical S/D is now a reality. He's either regrouping, indecisive, or will wait until he meets someone else.
Sometimes to find motivation I play these mind games with myself. When he first left I was in dreaded limbo but knew it would end when the lease was up and I was right. I pulled it together and DB like crazy for those 6 months. I lost motivation once limbo ended.
I have now moved onto to the next phase of which I have no official name for. It's not limbo (in my mind) but it's not D either. For this I might try a new mind game. This phase will end in a predictable time as well - a good guess is 6-24 months. The beauty of this is I should be largely over him by then so this pain I feel will end. I can DB like crazy for ME now with the peace knowing that regardless of what happens I will be okay. Make sense?
I'm seriously struggling right now so I'm scrambling to get a handle on my thoughts. There is nothing I can do to make WAH want to reconcile. What I can do is become the best version of myself. I feel weak for needing him as motivation to change but I know as long as I stick with it for at least 4 months it will stick I've seen it stick after 4 months. When I first got in shape my motivation was external but after 4 months I felt so good that I kept going for me.
I believe the same thing will happen now if I believe I have a chance. The limbo I was in before I didn't get to 4 months before it ended. I was DB like crazy yes but not at first. It took me a few months just to be able to eat/sleep normally. He cancelled the lease not long after. Limbo ended and my (short term) motivation went with it.
Following the same principle it means I have a small window of opportunity to kick start change that lasts. I need to believe that until he files it's not over and I need to believe it quickly.
Worst case scenario is he's regrouping. He just moved and from what I'm hearing is struggling financially. He's working 80 hours a week to pay deposits (2 places), rent (2 places), appliances (his place), D17's hospital bills, etc. I figure since he's at a big box store (2nd job) he will ride out the holidays. 2 months and no time to file.
I'm also hearing he's drinking heavily, working too much to sleep, eats out all the time (costly), and what little spare time he has he spends it with D14 and S19 (he was out of their lives for 7 months). Filing for D is tedious, there's all this paperwork, and since I'm already out of his life physically surely this buys me at least another 2 months. I don't think there is a 3rd party but if there is he still won't have time to D for at least a few months.
I feel like I'm writing a term paper. lol Debating all the ways it benefits me to believe in miracles for at least 4 months. I need to believe I still have a chance. I believe he's done which is why I come here for hope, just a little so I don't give up not yet. I need a little push to keep going and I pray someone here understands this.
I'm 7 months out. If I were a year out out asking for hope then maybe I'd need some sense knocked into me. I'm not delusional I know my odds aren't good. I'm not in limbo and I'm 100% NC.
If/when I get served it will be a setback whether I'm prepared for it or not. I don't think there is anyway to prepare for that. I do believe I will bounce back way faster than I did when he first walked out. I think the worst of this is behind me given the work I've already done and I'm NC. Even if I "give up" it just means any reconciliation attempts will fail and I'm not stupid. If given that chance there is no way I'd put myself through this again if I knew I hadn't changed (a lot), if I hadn't detached, if I hadn't healed. No matter how tempted I was I'd have to remind myself that I'd be willingly walking into the lions den unarmed and unprepared.
During this process I've learned I have more self respect than I thought I had and I have built on that. If I had healed and he came back I'd take it slow yes but if I felt like he still held a grudge I'd back away. I cannot, will not do this again.
A month ago I reached out to my estranged mother of 20 years. Within 2 days of emailing back and forth I knew I cared more than she did. It was in that moment that I knew I was getting stronger. I was needy yes but within a few hours I came to my senses and cut her off before she could do any damage. I'm very proud of how I handled that.
K,
What does giving up mean to you?
I was thinking about this question (again) while I was at lunch. The counselor that runs my trauma group has overcome so much but she stopped just short of what she could have accomplished healing wise. My own sister and her adult daughter did the same. Pain causes people to change. These people stopped healing when their pain was gone enough to get back to their regularly scheduled lives . To heal more they'd have to willingly put themselves through MORE PAIN and who the heck wants to do that??
This is where I am. I've changed plenty but to level up I'm going to have to deliberately do painful things. Had I changed sooner he'd be happy with where I am. Now? I'm going to have to level up.
The counselor that runs my trauma group has overcome so much but she stopped just short of what she could have accomplished healing wise. My own sister and her adult daughter did the same.
Hi Kas, in your estimation, how should one determine when they've healed enough?
Pain causes people to change.
What about pleasure? My partner says she loves my body the way it is. No BreakupDiet(tm) for me! Can I push myself to go to the gym dreaming of future adventures I could do if I were fitter, rewarding myself with an audiobook during, and rewarding myself with coffee after? At some point habits and a positive feedback loop should kick in. I've found good gym partners and classes help with consistency, too!
On my phone so hard to type. CW I’m going to have to think about your very good questions.
To the vets am I better off accepting that he’s not coming back? It’s kind of where I’m at anyway (this changes I know) I am afraid of losing the kids to him. He continues to try and get S19 to live with him and if I fall apart D17 will be forced to depend on him too. He’s expecting me to fall apart so he can take my kids away from me.
Hi Kas, in your estimation, how should one determine when they've healed enough?
My dr says if I can hold down a job and take care of my kids (and me) then I have healed enough. I agree with her assessment of me so this is my baseline. I then slowly add things one by one until I start feeling bad. Assuming the last thing I added is healthy I must now make a choice back up, heal more or take something else off the list.
What about pleasure? My partner says she loves my body the way it is. No BreakupDiet(tm) for me! Can I push myself to go to the gym dreaming of future adventures I could do if I were fitter, rewarding myself with an audiobook during, and rewarding myself with coffee after? At some point habits and a positive feedback loop should kick in. I've found good gym partners and classes help with consistency, too!
Ah CW you're talking about normal change that normal people strive for. The type of change I'm talking about is healing from childhood trauma which is painful. Childhood trauma leads to relationship problems which is why I'm here, why my H left. The meds have given me the mental strength to do the work but its still painful.
My kitchen has ants. As long as I stay on top of the dishes I only see an ant or two. Today they showed up in the bathroom and S19 (aspergers) got upset. I scrubbed the bathroom with bleach and promised I’d call an exterminator if necessary. He says the bathroom needs re caulking . Fine I’ll get you a tube. He says WAH has a caulk gun and will show him how to use it. Great, I say sincerely thinking this is the end of it.
Nope. WAH will pay for an exterminator. Oh wait he will caulk the bathroom first while I’m at work then if that doesn’t work he will hire an exterminator. This isn’t the first time WAH has offered to do something here. I think not seeing where his kids live bothers him.
I thought you know what I don’t even care. Caulk my bathroom, come see my house, satisfy your curiosity then leave. As long as S19 is here I’m not going to be able to keep WAH out forever without coming across as a bitter shrew. Let’s just rip off the bandaid and get it over with maybe then he will see that my house is nothing like his (he thinks it is). Oh won’t he be surprised to see how we live now.
Here’s where I’ve grown I’m not fully unpacked yet. Nope got bags and boxes in the living room. The old me would stay up all night making it look perfect. The new me doesn’t give a crap. I’ll shut my bedroom door but that’s it.
It really bothers me when people tell me its over or give me that "look". Negative or so called "realists" think they are doing me a favor by making sure I don't get my hopes up.
One of WAH's complaints about me was my negativity and now I think omg this is how I made other people feel (I am working on this). I'm deeply ashamed to say I told someone who's family member had cancer that they only had a 20% chance of surviving 5 years. This family member made it 10 years and died of a heart attack. I'd like to say this was an isolated event but sadly its not.
It really bothers me when people tell me its over or give me that "look". Negative or so called "realists" think they are doing me a favor by making sure I don't get my hopes up.
DB helps here too - let other people have their own opinions and advice and viewpoints. You can't change how other people think or what they say.
You have the power to decide how to react emotionally.
DB helps here too - let other people have their own opinions and advice and viewpoints. You can't change how other people think or what they say.
You have the power to decide how to react emotionally.
DB has helped me with this and so much more. I feel centered, more positive, open minded, etc.
It has also given me the power to decide who to talk to (in real life). I'm distancing myself from people who make me feel bad. I'm negative enough as it is why would I add to it??
I was reading another thread and the words "false hope" were tossed out there. False hope means ZERO chances so unless your spouse dies there is always hope.
**got this off the internet and it applies**
I started out refusing the face the reality of my situation. We are close to retirement, he won't leave the kids, we've been together for 30 years, etc. I was upset yes but still confident that I'd have a successful outcome. This was pure optimism considering he'd already moved out. I was delusional.
Reality hit when he cancelled the lease. I'm now not pessimistic but I'm not optimistic either. Bottom line = the outcome has yet to be determined (by either party).
Hope is the bridge between pessimism and optimism balanced by realism. This is why I think it takes many people 1-2 years to give up hope. It takes this long to see how the story ends or you're ready to end it.
I don't get many replies but people do lurk and writing all this helps me too.
Hope for the best prepare for the worse. This is an active process. I'm working on becoming the best version of myself but I have an attorney. I hate how I got here but I like who I've become. If he comes back I'll be strong enough to weather a rough reconciliation and if he doesn't I'll be strong enough to cope on my own. I'm preparing for either outcome.
Well WAH saw my house today. Did some repairs with S19 and wants to do more. I’d like to think it’s a good sign or at least something positive. I’m aware I’m looking at years if ever so I’m grounded. Im just saying it’s better than when he ignored my call when my car had an issue right?
He’s coming back here tomorrow to fix things. This isn’t weird at all. It’s perfectly normal to get dumped and have him in my house, fixing things after he forced me to move. We aren’t friends. We don’t co parent. We are 100% no contact and that isn’t changing anytime soon. D17 said she didn’t care what he did as long as he was gone by the time she got home.
This is all about S19 but still.
I know I’m the “mother of his children” and he wants to take care of them. It’s not about me. I get it. I’m okay it’s just hard.
Well WAH saw my house today. Did some repairs with S19 and wants to do more. I’d like to think it’s a good sign or at least something positive. I’m aware I’m looking at years if ever so I’m grounded. Im just saying it’s better than when he ignored my call when my car had an issue right?
Yes, definitely an improvement. Michele calls them "baby steps" and typically the road to recon is a whole lot of baby steps rather than one big jump.
I am the main reason why WAH left. Told him I understood and that I wouldn't fight him. He wanted to D immediately and I accepted that. I got better, a lot better once I got on the right combination of medication. I feel normal and I've been symptom free for 7 months (anxiety/depression). My kids, including our autistic son who couldn't lie if his life depended on it told him I'm doing good. He also tells WAH when I do bad as well (still working on my negativity, GAL, detaching, etc.)
He was all set to file but he stopped. A week later he told me the only reason he'd consider reconciling was because I was symptom free but that he needed time. He was angry (I get this). Once he said he was "done" but I acknowledged what I'd done wrong and worked to correct the behavior. He went back to being nice and said he was "confused". I did not beg. Instead I went completely dark (3 months now). I figured my only shot was LRT. Give him time to heal and time to fix me.
I'm probably delusional but this doesn't feel permanent (I'm okay if it is). I'm respecting his decision, I continue to cooperate, he's being somewhat nice (from afar), I'm letting him call the shots (this is hard but as long as he's being reasonable I'm letting it slide), I'm assuming I'll know when it's time to push for a D right?
I've kind of accepted my fate so to speak. Not in a bad way but in an accountability way. I have these moments of sadness over the loss but I can handle them now. I feel calm. Does this sound like I'm doing the right things?
Yes, definitely an improvement. Michele calls them "baby steps" and typically the road to recon is a whole lot of baby steps rather than one big jump.
He wants to build a bigger walkway. We already have a walkway and it works just fine. If we did get ice (I live the south so unlikely) we could just use the front door. Two weeks ago the tire light came on in my car. He insisted on replacing it the next day. The last time this happened (we were still together) he let me drive that car for months before I finally got a flat and he was forced to fix it.
My commute is 8 minutes through neighborhoods, I have two teenagers with cars, and at least 6 coworkers who would would give me a ride. Fixing the tire the next day wasn't necessary. I have everything under control. In fact tomorrow I have an appointment to get my oil changed. I've got this.
Yes, definitely sounds like you're on the right track. You're giving him time and space, and it certainly seems it's working, his actions seem to show that he no longer feels pressured. Just keep it up!
Knowing he was in my house made me sad. Within 15 minutes I managed to lift my mood so I was equipped to hear about WAH from S19.
WAH said he'd do this one repair in the kitchen (if I wanted him to). I looked at it and thought "no". I didn't want him to fix my tire, I don't want him fixing my kitchen, or my two bathrooms nor do I need a new walkway. I'm FINE.
Of course I can't say any of this to S19 without sounding like a bitter shrew. I didn't say yes or no I just redirected S19 somewhere else. To a much smaller, 5 minute job. lol WAH is probably at my house right now. Surreal.
Yes, definitely sounds like you're on the right track. You're giving him time and space, and it certainly seems it's working, his actions seem to show that he no longer feels pressured. Just keep it up!
Part of me thinks this is just for S19 but S19 is aspergers, brilliant but brutally honest. When he uses WAH he's pretty outspoken about it. If I disrespect WAH in any way he calls me on it and vice versa. I was sitting right there when the tire conversation went down. S19 seemed annoyed because it was his day off and he wanted to sleep in. The tire was all WAH and I think the house is too.
He said I could borrow his tractor lawn mower (S19 vetoed that idea). He then said he would buy me a lawn mower. He camps (no time now) so he has firewood. Said I could have it (I have a wood burning fireplace). Had some old pallets at the house and WAH offered to come pick them up (S19 declined). There were other things too that I blew off.
I had been dark for 2 months by this time so I paused, said nothing and got back to my life. None of it got my attention until he fixed my car. That stood out because he ignored me before. After some thought I did realize that yes I took the pressure off. I am fully capable of taking care of myself now and he has to know this. lol
I’m afraid of the mail. Is my insurance being cancelled? Maybe it’s my phone. I think about the next time I’ll have to communicate with him and it won’t be until tax time. Beyond that I’m in hiding until May 2021 when D17 graduates high school. After 30 years together unless we reconcile its best I stay away. I’ll show up for big things but that’s it.
WAH didn’t come over but I’m sure it’s because today is a 16 hour work day. I’m totally ok with this.
I worry about money a lot. WAH has overextended himself which means less for us. He’s never been good with money. His brain just doesn’t work that way kinda like I need instructions to put together a bankers box.
Anyway these are just my musings tonight.
Trying to breathe.....
S19 needs to complete the FAFSA and I'm separated. Nice right? This is the kind of thing that used to irritate my crazy. Today D17 just asked if I was okay and I took a breath and said yes. I asked her to turn on the tv for noise. Doesn't help that I'm hangry. I'm fine which is miraculous. Tough yes but I'm okay. Just breathe right?
But hey I’m positive. Part of me wanted to bad mouth WAH to my kids. I considered telling D17 that I’m going to get less money than I thought I was from him.
I can’t do it. I must be evolving because I honestly can’t do it.
Do you think the emotional roller coaster will ever end? kas I completely understand how you use this forum as a journal because I do the same. It is hard and you are doing it
Do you think the emotional roller coaster will ever end? kas I completely understand how you use this forum as a journal because I do the same. It is hard and you are doing it
560 people have viewed my thread. I don’t know how I feel until I type it and here I feel less alone even if no one responds. I read your thread even though I don’t have any advice so I’m here.
On the emotional roller coaster ending I find solace online. Low end 14 months and no contact speeds this up plus GAL, detaching helps make this easier so I think I’m halfway there. I look back at how awful it was the day of the BD omg this is a piece of cake compared to then. Lol
I continue to grow into someone I’m proud of and I’m happier now. Hate that it took this to get me to change but nothing I can do about it now right?
I manipulated and controlled WAH out of fear that he would leave me and the irony is this drove him away. I’ve known for a long time that I did this and while I slowed it down considerably I couldn’t completely stop. I’m learning how to sit with bad feelings instead of doing anything toxic. I’m learning to let go. I’m learning to live an authentic yet positive life. The hard part is I have to stop lying so much (no way to completely stop). I have to stop and think about my motives before I do anything. For example I was sending WAH pictures of his estranged daughter D17. She’s almost an adult, it’s a betrayal and I was trying to man
That last sentence is manipulate WAH. I’m sitting at a car dealership getting annual maintenance yay me but it’s hard to type on my phone. I’ll finish my journal later.
I know 560 people haven’t read this. It’s probably 5 who increase the count. Lol. Sadly this board isn’t dead so people do read looking for answers. The answers are here yes but it won’t (at first) be the ones you want. I’d be embarrassed to go back and read my posts from 6 months ago. People told me it would be ok, maybe even better and of course I didn’t believe them. I hate that it took this to wake me up but other than painful moments of grief I am happier now. I can’t even grasp that I can type those words. I am proud of who I am becoming. I’m stronger now more secure less haunted by my tragic childhood. I am healing.
I’m in an old house with damaged windows. The back corner needs mowing but you have to really look to see it plus there are big trees. It’s not terrible so it can wait till spring. I do not have a lawnmower yet.
WAH was here Thursday working on my house and now has all these things he wants to do. S19 told me today that WAH is going to bring his mower here and mow my lawn. This requires borrowing a trailer btw. Did I mention he’s working two jobs? Oh and we don’t speak. Ever. 3 months completely dark.
Either he feels absolutely guilty for putting us here, bonding with S19, it’s a baby step or all of the above.
He works all the time. He’s at work right now, doesn’t sleep, drinks, there is no food at his house and he wants to mow my lawn? Funny right?
Years. If he comes back it will take years. I’m grounded and dark, so very dark.
Either he feels absolutely guilty for putting us here, bonding with S19, it’s a baby step or all of the above.
While it would be okay to refuse said help, while it's happening, I'm glad you're ascribing positive motives and appreciating it. This is a move away from the negativity you wanted to change.
I do read your thread regularly even if I only comment intermittently!
While it would be okay to refuse said help, while it's happening, I'm glad you're ascribing positive motives and appreciating it. This is a move away from the negativity you wanted to change.
CW negativity is how I protect myself at least that’s what my last 3 therapists said. If i can convince myself that WAHs motivations have absolutely nothing to do with doubts about D then I can lessen the devastation. I tell myself he’s just feeling guilty, misses S19, and once he gets me all settled in he will end us permanently. If this is true then I think it’s beyond cruel. It’s a mean, a horrible thing to do to me after 30 years. I think if he wants me gone then he needs to go away and leave me alone. Let me detach, let me heal.
WASs are so selfish. They want to keep the door open, want to soften the blow, want to drag their feet when they are the ones who want a D. They walked out. They are the ones claiming to be “done” then they need to go away. I get not divorcing right away because it is a huge decision but omg stay away while you figure this out. Don’t lead us on with “niceness” and mixed signals. Go away. I’m no contact not because I’m trying to get him back no I’m no contact because it’s the only way for me to get through this. 30 years that’s almost my entire adult life.
Yes I could refuse help but what if I’m wrong. What if he is having doubts. If he is then yes I come across as a negative person. I don’t know what his motives are so I have a choice. Assume the worst or give him the benefit of the doubt. For now I’m choosing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If at anytime I find out factually that it’s guilt or we do get a divorce then I want him to stay out of my house.
Rant over.
I read about no contact a few days after he left so I did that. I responded but didn't (mostly) initiate conversations. He'd text every other day, then every 3 days, a week, then a month as our "business" dwindled. Every text he sent was like a dagger and it took me days to recover. He left April 4th and I set my sights on May 22nd, the day S19 graduated high school. After that I was going to disappear for my own sanity. No contact came naturally because he was mean to me. I got tired of the hot stove coming to me. If I could go back I would have switched to email.
We had an emergency in June and another in July that forced me to see/talk to him. Our conversations picked up the end of July but I couldn't handle it. I sent two emails (I regret this) the end of July. He didn't respond and this is when I went dark. He cancelled the lease 3 weeks later via email. I didn't respond. 6 weeks later I sent a text because I couldn't rent a place on my income alone (I regret this). He responded and I ignored it. Sent another text asking him how much support he was going to pay (one sentence). He responded, asked if it was enough and I ignored. I just wanted a number. He went low but I decided I'd make it work.
My laptop eats posts so I'm going to continue....
S19 began coordinating the move because I was dark. I didn't need S19 and would have communicated in one sentences but he just took over. At this point I set my sights on moving without having to see or talk to him (mission accomplished). Ended up renting a house instead of going to the apartment. This was when WAH seemed surprised by my behavior. Once upon a time I was fierce but overtime became dependent on him. So my behavior was a 180 from now but similar to who I used to be. I didn't beg, didn't reach out, didn't say anything, I'd found my dignity and I handled it. I was fully moved out by Oct 5th without his help and this shocked him. It was hard but in a way I was happy it was over. I had my own place and limbo was officially over.
And this was when it got weird. Offered his parents furniture, wanted to help fix things, sent happy's via S19, drove by the house, offered his employee discount, etc. WTH?? I just wanted to be left alone. When he fixed my car I had this thought that I was starting to earn his respect. I'd backed off and given him what he wanted.
Yes the pressure was off so now he's free. What he doesn't know is I'm free too. I'm FREE. Yes I'm sad at times. Yes I want him back. Yes to all of this but I'm still free. Free from needing validation from men. Free from living with someone who didn't love me the way I loved him. Free from the pain of being codependent.
Continuing...
I'm not over him though so I want to be as far away from his as possible. He kept offering to fix things here and I gave in for S19s sake. As long as he was gone by the time I got home then I was fine. I'm taking this day by day. If any point this upsets me I will stop it. Right now I think its a positive thing. As I type this what little hope I have is still years out. I'm unpacking, organizing, cooking, buying curtain rods, I'm setting up house. This is my life now.
Last night WAH asked S19 if I'd gotten an email from the rental company. It's been 9 days and no I do not know if he's going to get his deposit back or not but I told S19 I'd let him know if I heard anything.
I am worried that this isn't a positive thing and that I'm delusional. I'm trying to stay grounded or at the very least busy. The codependent thing is largely gone but it rears its ugly head if I sit too long or when I'm stressed. I don't want a divorce....and see now I need to stop talking about this because when I go down this path I get down and I have way better thoughts to have. It's going to be okay.
I take note of when I feel bad about losing WAH and today I got overwhelmed. Im still unpacking and trying to organize. Struggling to get the grocery bill down by a lot. Earlier today I was happy. Truly happy. It was a gorgeous day and D17 went shopping with me. She played DJ and we sang all her favorite songs. Yesterday S19 took my newly maintained car for a spin. We stopped at auto zone, got him some new wiper blades, and some window cleaner. We came home, had my car playing old rock songs while I washed my windows and he installed wiper blades on his car. Had a lot of fun. S19 was concerned about the wipers so he drove to the big box store where WAH works and had him look at them. I live 2 minutes between WAHs house and the big box store where he works.
Anyway tonight I cooked dinner, spent time individually with S19 and D17. I might get overwhelmed and wish WAH were here to help but you know what? At the end of the day I get it done. I handle it. One of these days I’ll stop thinking I need WAH.
S19 keeps talking about my car (that I need to last me 20 years) and this rental house. He says I will move again and this isn’t my last car. Fascinating.
I’ve always been told to be less negative and I’m starting to get it now but I want to know why. Where did this come from?
Saturday D17 and I went thrifting. She was trying on clothes when this woman started talking to me. This is huge because I am unapproachable. Now that I think about it random people have been talking to me more. My body language must be changing.
Anyway back to this woman she wanted my input on the clothes she was trying on. I’m thinking why are you talking to me and could you not? Last night I started thinking what was I afraid of? I went back to my mother. She wanted my input too but was mean to me.
So this woman then asked me to watch her cart and I about had a panic attack. I’m literally afraid of this woman. I’ve painted her as an awful person and I don’t even know her.
I’m off work today and my goal is to organize the pantry. My kitchen is tore up right now.
Then the pain hits. He’s gone. Actually gone. Has his own house. I can’t call or text him. Can’t meet him for lunch. I’ve screwed everything up for all of us.
I’m overwhelmed. This is so dumb. I’m fine. I get this way when I’m stressed.
I hope someone responds.
There is someone else.
Hi Kas, so, what do you know, and how did you find out?
Hi Kas, so, what do you know, and how did you find out?
S19 went over there to visit the pets. WAH is home, house is dark, there is a new car there, a purse, a pair of shoes and glasses. S19 ran before WAH found out he was there.
Hi Kas, so, what do you know, and how did you find out?
S19 went over there to visit the pets. WAH is home, house is dark, there is a new car there, a purse, a pair of shoes and glasses. S19 ran before WAH found out he was there.
Sorry to hear that--sounds pretty certain.
You're already separated, minimal contact, and divorce pending--I'm not sure there's much you can do to prevent him from seeking occasional intimacy or new relationships.
Be kind to yourself today. We're listening, and many here have gone through similar.
PS - I wonder why S19 ran. It may be worth exploring his feelings, after you've worked out your curse words.
PS - I wonder why S19 ran. It may be worth exploring his feelings, after you've worked out your curse words.
S19 ran because he doesn't want WAH to know he knows.
PS - I wonder why S19 ran. It may be worth exploring his feelings, after you've worked out your curse words.
S19 ran because he doesn't want WAH to know he knows.
"The Why" behind that may be interesting.
Something is driving him to feel he should (a) keep secret from his father that he knows, (b) tell you, (c) not tell his father that he's told you. I say "The Why" is curious because I wouldn't want my kids to feel they had to be secret agents or keep things hidden and I'd wonder how to make him more comfortable.
For today, given this wretched news, caring for yourself probably already sets a big enough challenge.
You're already separated, minimal contact, and divorce pending--I'm not sure there's much you can do to prevent him from seeking occasional intimacy or new relationships.
Stupid question does this completely and totally end my chances to reconcile?
If you remember I got caught chatting online with a man 6 years ago. It was plutonic (WAH agrees) so he got over that. He grilled me until he was satisfied he'd dug up all my skeletons. One of them was I'd cheated on him while were dating (3 months after we met). He was also angry that my "number" was higher than his. I actually thought (still do) that the only way for him to get past that was to sleep with someone else. I truly to the depths of my soul understand why he'd need to do that to regain his manhood. Sex to him was so sacred and holy. He needs to hurt me to forgive me. Needs to punish me. I get it I truly do.
Thoughts?
"The Why" behind that may be interesting.
I think he didn't know what do so he bolted.
Something is driving him to feel he should (a) keep secret from his father that he knows, (b) tell you, (c) not tell his father that he's told you. I say "The Why" is curious because I wouldn't want my kids to feel they had to be secret agents or keep things hidden and I'd wonder how to make him more comfortable.
He doesn't want WAH to be angry with him. He told me because he needed to tell someone. He won't tell WAH that I know because he doesn't want WAH to be angry with him.
For today, given this wretched news, caring for yourself probably already sets a big enough challenge.
It hasn't hit me yet. See my other post.
Guess this explains why he's being so nice to me. He's happy.
Stupid question does this completely and totally end my chances to reconcile?
That he's having an affair? If it did there would hardly ever be reconciled couples, because one or the other or both almost always engage in an affair after S and especially after D. Technically after D it's not really an affair, and many would argue that it's not really after S either. I'm sure more details will eventually come out but I would encourage you not to pry the kids for info. I made the mistake of asking one of my daughters about OM early on until she told me to stop because it upset her to talk about it. I never asked any of them again, after she said something I realized how insensitive it was for me to ask.
Guess this explains why he's being so nice to me. He's happy.
Actually if there's an OW I would expect him to be avoiding you and your house like the plague. It's odd that he's coming over and doing stuff. He's not really cake-eating because he seems to only come over when you're not around. You'd think he would be worried that it would upset OW if she found out.
That he's having an affair? If it did there would hardly ever be reconciled couples, because one or the other or both almost always engage in an affair after S and especially after D. Technically after D it's not really an affair, and many would argue that it's not really after S either.
I'm stupid for asking. Anyone is better than me.
Divorce papers soon?
I'm sure more details will eventually come out but I would encourage you not to pry the kids for info. I made the mistake of asking one of my daughters about OM early on until she told me to stop because it upset her to talk about it. I never asked any of them again, after she said something I realized how insensitive it was for me to ask.
I knew if there was someone else I'd know after he got his own place. I don't like prying because nothing good ever comes of it. What I don't know can't hurt me.
I wish I didn't still love him.
Guess this explains why he's being so nice to me. He's happy.
Actually if there's an OW I would expect him to be avoiding you and your house like the plague. It's odd that he's coming over and doing stuff. He's not really cake-eating because he seems to only come over when you're not around. You'd think he would be worried that it would upset OW if she found out.
FWB? He knows I don't want to see him (hurts too much). He just came over the one time because I was the one saying no. He said he wanted to come back but he had to work all weekend.
It felt positive which makes me an idiot.
After one sleepover?! With many single parents, the impetus to finalize the divorce comes when they're ready to get married again. You can't control when he's ready, only when you're ready.
After one sleepover?! With many single parents, the impetus to finalize the divorce comes when they're ready to get married again. You can't control when he's ready, only when you're ready.
True.
Kas, I know you like numbers. I found a small study (23 participants) citing the median length of a rebound relationship entered into within 7 months of break-up as being 2 months. 70% of all adult relationships fail according to other studies, and many sites claim it's 90%+ for rebounds.
Kas, I know you like numbers. I found a small study (23 participants) citing the median length of a rebound relationship entered into within 7 months of break-up as being 2 months. 70% of all adult relationships fail according to other studies, and many sites claim it's 90%+ for rebounds.
Thank you so much for this. It helps. I do like numbers. It still hasn’t hit. I haven’t seen him in 4 months and I’m praying that I’ve detached enough for this not to crush me when it does.
S19 said WAH offered to bring some firewood over so the nice thing is still on.
WAH offered to bring some firewood over so the nice thing is still on
I hope he is doing it because he still cares for you.
The first time my XW was having an affair on me and wanted to leave she would do things for me because she said "I felt sorry for him." I guess I was just some poor pathetic abandoned puppy dog she was going to be nice to as she delivered me to the pound. She didn't do it because she cared she just thought I was pathetic.
I think I’m ready to file for D.
Come on Kay you know you’re the last person on here who should be filing for divorce.
Come on Kay you know you’re the last person on here who should be filing for divorce.
He's had a girlfriend for at least a month (confirmed today). She's at his house now (S19 confirmed). He's paying me less than what he said he would before we moved. I was going to let it ride because I had hope but now I do not. My main concern now is protecting my kids financially.
I hope he is doing it because he still cares for you.
Nope.
Ok I agree if it helps you financially.
Ok I agree if it helps you financially.
I was okay holding what I had as long as I was in the rental house that was in both our names. I took a gamble renting this house on my own. My gut told me there was someone else in July when I saw him in the hospital.
I feel sick.
I've become a cliche. "Men don't walk out unless they have someone". Yep.
Ok I agree if it helps you financially.
Just curious why do you think I should wait?
My attorney is emailing me the complaint tonight. I want to do it before he figures out that I know. He's being pretty open about it. Everyone at his work knows. It's only a matter of time before this blows up. He just got his own place a month ago.
Because you don’t want a divorce.
Because you don’t want a divorce.
True.
He won't be expecting this. He didn't expect me to rent a house, to have help, to move out in 8 days. He knows I have hope, knows I'm plan B.
I was so very wrong about everything.
WAH didn't hear S19 come in so he doesn't know we know. The OW was over there again today. WAH must have taken a couple of days off. WAH sent over the firewood.
I figure he's being nice because he's about to file or its just guilt.
This day was awful and I have got to get a grip.
My main concern is money. Do you think WAH is clever based on everything I’ve told you? Does he know this is coming? Has he prepared? He made some big mistakes early on? Is that a good thing? Why hasn’t he filed? I know there is no rush unless he wants to marry.
I feel sick and I’m falling apart
My state doesn't have a no fault based divorce unless we both agree to it so she's going with adultery. I could easily prove it now with a PI but once he gets served he will go underground. I signed the complaint this morning and she said I didn't have to do anything now. The thing that gives me the most comfort is she's asking for temporary support while the D is in process. This means we go before the judge. I think I should at least be able to get a few hundred more than what I'm getting now which is HUGE in my world. I think he's still at the 2nd job just not as many hours as he said. He's just lying to D14 so he can go out on dates.
He's never home and we all assumed he was working to pay all the moving expenses which were the equivalent of one months pay. Just the moving expenses. This doesn't include a hospital bill. Oh and he's a big spender too as he tries to buy his kids love. Expensive birthday party, gifts, upgrades to S19's car, etc.
Back in a few. Work calls.
My main concern is money. Do you think WAH is clever based on everything I’ve told you?
No not really, he sounds to me like he THINKS he's clever which is typical of WAH's. He thinks he's fooling everyone while fooling no one. Serving him papers will be a cold slap of reality that his little secret ain't so secret after all.
Does he know this is coming? Has he prepared?
No and no.
I can only guess, but my guess would be that he knows it's going to be expensive for him so he's avoided it.
I feel sick and I’m falling apart
Very sorry, I know it must be miserable! Hang in there!
No not really, he sounds to me like he THINKS he's clever which is typical of WAH's. He thinks he's fooling everyone while fooling no one. Serving him papers will be a cold slap of reality that his little secret ain't so secret after all.
Thank you. I needed to hear this. I need to hear anything other than he's having a grand old time laughing at how stupid I am. He's going to come unglued when he sees the word "adultery".
He probably thinks I'm sitting at home waiting for him which I was until yesterday. I want to believe he underestimates me.
I can only guess, but my guess would be that he knows it's going to be expensive for him so he's avoided it.
We kind of agreed on a settlement, he looked at the budget then didn't file. He's since offered me less and is now paying me less. The dividends are still up in the air. I'm thinking it's only a few hundred dollars a month so why not get rid of me?? He is a kick the can down the road kind of guy.
Its sickening to think that WAH gets his happily ever after while I'm a single parent. He can lie about where he is to do whatever whereas I've got kids who need me. I don't want to date it's just the thought of he gets to come home to someone, gets to double his income again while I'm stuck. He spent the last 2 days off tucked nicely in bed with her. We had a romantic weekend before the BD and now he's gone. I'm stuck in this negative loop. Knowing I might get more support helps but I can't get that thought to stick.
I want to believe he underestimates me.
Maybe so, doesn't really matter though. You're doing this to protect yourself and not as a form of revenge, right?
We kind of agreed on a settlement, he looked at the budget then didn't file. He's since offered me less and is now paying me less. The dividends are still up in the air. I'm thinking it's only a few hundred dollars a month so why not get rid of me??
He offered less and is paying less, so that tells you he's trying to cheap his way out of this. He more than likely realizes that if he files it's going to cost him in L fees, extra spousal/ child support and who knows what else. He sounds like he's avoidant in general so there you go.
Its sickening to think that WAH gets his happily ever after while I'm a single parent.
I would GLADLY have chosen to have my kids 100% of the time rather than 50 and let my XW sow her wild oats as much as she wanted. You are very lucky in that regard. And who says he's happy? He doesn't sound happy.
I don't want to date it's just the thought of he gets to come home to someone, gets to double his income again while I'm stuck
You're jumping to some big conclusions there. You just found out he was dating, and now you've already got them shacked up and sharing incomes! Quit spinning, all it's doing is messing with your PMA!
I wandered into a MLC thread. He didn't appear to want the D but went through with it anyway. He stalled for years. I don't know if he had someone or not. He didn't at the time but maybe earlier he did I don't know. Having someone changes things doesn't it? I don't know because I haven't read those stories yet. Just wondering. Anyone know?
This is kinda interesting. My attorney was on top of it when I first hired her but then I got wishy washy trying to "nice" WAH back. Cancelled the temporary support hearing (dumb I know). Two other times I cried wolf with her and she blew me off (gently). My negative self said she was going to fire me. I work in the legal field so I have her personal cell number. Yesterday I sent her a text telling her that WAH had a girlfriend, that I wanted to file and that I'd get the paperwork back to her within 24 hours.
She responded immediately. Fastest she's gotten back to me since this started. It's probably because I'm finally doing something but I'd like to think it's because I handed her an infidelity card. I have a witness (not S19). She said it's hard to prove infidelity but she can name drop as a scare tactic.
Maybe so, doesn't really matter though. You're doing this to protect yourself and not as a form of revenge, right?
Its to protect myself. I'd prefer to wait and see if he comes out of this. I still want to reconcile I'm not doing well and grasping at anything including imagining him underestimating me to feel better.
He offered less and is paying less, so that tells you he's trying to cheap his way out of this. He more than likely realizes that if he files it's going to cost him in L fees, extra spousal/ child support and who knows what else. He sounds like he's avoidant in general so there you go.
This is on me. I allowed him to cheap his way out because I wanted to "nice" him back. I kinda knew after I moved I'd have to file soon but wasn't sure when. Finding about the OW made the decision easy and yes he's an avoidant.
I would GLADLY have chosen to have my kids 100% of the time rather than 50 and let my XW sow her wild oats as much as she wanted. You are very lucky in that regard. And who says he's happy? He doesn't sound happy.
I have 2 kids 100% of the time. D14 is with him. He's happier now that he has his own place.
You're jumping to some big conclusions there. You just found out he was dating, and now you've already got them shacked up and sharing incomes! Quit spinning, all it's doing is messing with your PMA!
I'm trying to stop. I'm grasping for air. I can't breathe. My thoughts are strangling me. The only positive I can see are my kids but I can't hang onto that. I keep posting here hoping someone can help talk me down. I can't stop spinning and I'm in trouble at work and at home.